Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[ThePerm]

i hope by next year all the developers decide that Nintendo is their primary platform, also Carmack is pissed at doom 64 and doom snes....he complains about there not being a shooting community on Nintendo consoles, but does anyone remember n64 was a console with a bunch of shooters? I never understood how n64 was kiddy when Ps1 was lacking in the shooting genre. I guess Cloud Strife is such a hardcore anti-hero.....ok Metal Gear which was not a shooter was awesome.


oh and Kytim its possible they may include a Wii-mote in the package, but:

1) 86 million console owners own Wii motes
2)Probably more then half that have 2-4 times that fpr multiplayer
3)Wii mote is compatible, that is the second controller

the install base for Wii Remotes is so high that as long as Nintendo continues to sell them at retail then there shouldn't any install base problems to cause 3rd parties to justify not supporting the Wii mote. Also, by not selling the Screemote at retail, then they sell the Wii mote for multriplayer games.

[Ian Sane]

I have to disagree with you on that, Ian.  Sure, by all means show off the power of the device, but the problem is that it isn't immediately apparent that this device is any more powerful than the HD consoles we already have on the market.  You emphasize the power, and I have to start asking questions why I want this device when my existing consoles have games that look quite nice.

My suggestion is to convince the casual rubes that the Wii U is technologically superior to the Wii so they immediately understand why a whole new system was necessary.  What you're talking about is converting the core which will prove to be challenging.  As for how to make games like Wii Sports look better?  Well you can always improve the scenery.  You could make make Wuhu island more visually interesting.  Plus titles like Endless Ocean and Nintendogs lend themselves to improved graphics.
 
Regarding third party support, this is different than the Wii.  It was never easy to bring games to the Wii.  It was so out-of-date that straight ports were not possible.  So yeah, everyone crapped on it to start with and never got around to developing for it.  But why would they?  They would have to dedicate a separate dev team to make a unique game.  But here?  They can just port it.  The Wii U starts selling big and id Software can just take their current multiplatform game in development and just include the Wii U as part of it.  The switch is easy (or should be unless Nintendo designed this with Saturn level obtuseness) where as before it took an insane amount of effort.

[Chozo Ghost]

ID software should be supporting it off the bat, because if its just as powerful as the other systems and is using the same processor architecture then it should be a trivial effort to do a port on it, right? Saying the market "isn't there" is bullshit. Of course it isn't there, because the console hasn't even launched yet. So its a blank slate where anything is possible, but stuff will only happen if developers like ID make it happen.

[broodwars]

My suggestion is to convince the casual rubes that the Wii U is technologically superior to the Wii so they immediately understand why a whole new system was necessary.  What you're talking about is converting the core which will prove to be challenging.  As for how to make games like Wii Sports look better?  Well you can always improve the scenery.  You could make make Wuhu island more visually interesting.  Plus titles like Endless Ocean and Nintendogs lend themselves to improved graphics.

But that's the thing: the casuals don't care about owning something technologically superior to what they have.  If they had, they would have actually purchased titles other than Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart on the Wii.  Hell, they wouldn't have purchased a glorified GameCube in the Wii to begin with.  It's pointless going after the casuals with technology.  That's why I say that you have to convince them that the lame touchscreen-on-a-controller gimmick makes their wave-a-remote-to-make-stuff-happen gimmick obsolete.  You have to do that with the core audience as well, but for different reasons (to convince them that this isn't the Wii again, where Nintendo will half-heartedly support them).

[MorbidGod]

It looks as if Apple has beaten Nintendo to the punch:
 
http://www.1up.com/news/forget-wii-u-ipad-offers-dual-screen-gaming-this-fall

Yeah, we've... well I've know n about that. But they have one game... I posted something about it around here somewhere.

but then there is also this

This functionality is done wirelessly with a connection to an Apple TV, a media receiver that connects to your television. Apple currently sells them for $99 through its website, a price that makes it dramatically cheaper than whatever the Wii U ends up at.

I think they forgot that you still need to buy an iPad2 which is gonna run you a minimum of $499 and then you have to buy an AppleTV which will run you another $99.

So do you buy a Wuu with lots of games for ~$300-$350
or do you buy an iPad2 + AppleTV for a combined total of atleast $600?

The whole point of this article was to show that the novelty of Nintendo's new gimmick is already getting competition.
 
BnM, do you think that Nintendo will unveil a more advance motion controller and a wireless CCPro? I ask because it seems foolish to abandon that part of the industry with this new tablet controller. I would be more receptice of this new console if I had a better motion controller to play games with. Motion controls is no longer a gimmick to me, but a way to play certain games.

The thing is, they haven't given up on the motion controls. Not only does the Wii U us Wiimotes, apparently its required for multiplayer action in the Same console. I am sure there will be games that use the tablet and some that don't. Nintendo lets th developer use what ever fits best for the gam at hand.

[SixthAngel]

The Wii remotes are moving to the Wii just like the PS controllers could be used on the next system.  I imagine that the system will come with one packed in along with the u controller since it was required even for some demos they showed.

Improved graphics don't sell systems, games do.  The only reason to question the graphics would be to wonder if it will miss out on multiplats.  The answer appears to be no so it's a nonissue.  This will never be more true than now since the jump is getting smaller.  People don't say "I want those graphics, let's upgrade." or "I want that u controller, let's upgrade."  They say "I want to play that game, let's upgrade."  If the person really cares about graphics technology they would be almost solely be using the PC anyway (with a possible console for, wait for it, the games).

[Caterkiller]

Isn't everyone constantly updating their Ipods, phones, Ipads, and computers? Everyone always wants the new seperior thing. Casuals will indeed upgrade when they see that new game they want.

[broodwars]

Isn't everyone constantly updating their Ipods, phones, Ipads, and computers? Everyone always wants the new seperior thing. Casuals will indeed upgrade when they see that new game they want.

But that's the thing: "content is king", as the saying goes.  You can hype the technology all you want, but if you don't have compelling software (which is the problem the 3DS is having right now) it doesn't make any difference.  That's why I've said and will continue saying that Nintendo needs to show compelling content that can only be delivered the way the Wii U can.  I'm extremely skeptical something like that is possible since so far I don't feel the slightest compulsion to purchase the device, but Nintendo needs to justify its existence beyond their own bottom line.

[SixthAngel]

No one seems to realize that Wii u has an entirely new concept for multiplayer.  Current multiplayer games involve people fighting each other with the same tools.  Everyone is a guy fighting from the first person perspective, or everyone is car from the third person perspective.  By giving someone else the different controller suddenly you leave more room for someone in the multiplayer game to be completely different.  I think they showed it well in the demos I've heard about.

[broodwars]

No one seems to realize that Wii u has an entirely new concept for multiplayer.  Current multiplayer games involve people fighting each other with the same tools.  Everyone is a guy fighting from the first person perspective, or everyone is car from the third person perspective.  By giving someone else the different controller suddenly you leave more room for someone in the multiplayer game to be completely different.  I think they showed it well in the demos I've heard about.

The controller's pretty useless for multiplayer if you can only have one of it.  Even if that wasn't the case, the controller would probably be prohibitively expensive to buy enough of them for 3-4 person multiplayer.

[SixthAngel]

No one seems to realize that Wii u has an entirely new concept for multiplayer.  Current multiplayer games involve people fighting each other with the same tools.  Everyone is a guy fighting from the first person perspective, or everyone is car from the third person perspective.  By giving someone else the different controller suddenly you leave more room for someone in the multiplayer game to be completely different.  I think they showed it well in the demos I've heard about.

The controller's pretty useless for multiplayer if you can only have one of it.  Even if that wasn't the case, the controller would probably be prohibitively expensive to buy enough of them for 3-4 person multiplayer.

You obviously didn't understand what I said at all.  Multiplayer won't invovle people with u's playing against each other, it will involve people with u's and people with wii remotes playing against and with each other.  The different controllers will allow the different people to have unique purposes and gameplay.  It won't be two people shooting each other with the exact same tools, it will be two people shooting each other while the Wii u controller uses the screen to manipulate the level and help his team, or it will be two people playing a fps against an opponent with Wii u that controlls an army like an RTS.

[BlackNMild2k1]

No one seems to realize that Wii u has an entirely new concept for multiplayer.  Current multiplayer games involve people fighting each other with the same tools.  Everyone is a guy fighting from the first person perspective, or everyone is car from the third person perspective.  By giving someone else the different controller suddenly you leave more room for someone in the multiplayer game to be completely different.  I think they showed it well in the demos I've heard about.

The controller's pretty useless for multiplayer if you can only have one of it.  Even if that wasn't the case, the controller would probably be prohibitively expensive to buy enough of them for 3-4 person multiplayer.

You obviously didn't understand what I said at all.  Multiplayer won't invovle people with u's playing against each other, it will involve people with u's and people with wii remotes playing against and with each other.  The different controllers will allow the different people to have unique purposes and gameplay.  It won't be two people shooting each other with the exact same tools, it will be two people shooting each other while the Wii u controller uses the screen to manipulate the level and help his team, or it will be two people playing a fps against an opponent with Wii u that controlls an army like an RTS.

Yes but your multiplayer is not symetrical. The person with the only uScreen has been separated from the group while everyone else teams up against them.
If you could use a 2nd uScreen, then you could separate into 2 teams
uScreen 1 + wiimote1 & wiimote2 vs uScreen2 + wiimote3 & wiimote4
or a head to head matchup of uScreen 1 vs uScreen 2
or uScreen 1&2 vs Wiimotes 1-4

Bottom line is that there are alot more multiplayer option if you support 2 uScreens in addition to the wiimotes than just a single Uscreen & 4 wiimotes.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ubisoft Rountable from yesterday.
http://uplay.us.ubi.com/e3/videos

"Ubisoft's Ghost Recon Online, Killer Freaks, and Assassin's Creed are about to hit the Nintendo Wii U!"
Footage of all (except AC) running on Wuu

[SixthAngel]

No one seems to realize that Wii u has an entirely new concept for multiplayer.  Current multiplayer games involve people fighting each other with the same tools.  Everyone is a guy fighting from the first person perspective, or everyone is car from the third person perspective.  By giving someone else the different controller suddenly you leave more room for someone in the multiplayer game to be completely different.  I think they showed it well in the demos I've heard about.

The controller's pretty useless for multiplayer if you can only have one of it.  Even if that wasn't the case, the controller would probably be prohibitively expensive to buy enough of them for 3-4 person multiplayer.

You obviously didn't understand what I said at all.  Multiplayer won't invovle people with u's playing against each other, it will involve people with u's and people with wii remotes playing against and with each other.  The different controllers will allow the different people to have unique purposes and gameplay.  It won't be two people shooting each other with the exact same tools, it will be two people shooting each other while the Wii u controller uses the screen to manipulate the level and help his team, or it will be two people playing a fps against an opponent with Wii u that controlls an army like an RTS.

Yes but your multiplayer is not symetrical. The person with the only uScreen has been separated from the group while everyone else teams up against them.
If you could use a 2nd uScreen, then you could separate into 2 teams
uScreen 1 + wiimote1 & wiimote2 vs uScreen2 + wiimote3 & wiimote4
or a head to head matchup of uScreen 1 vs uScreen 2
or uScreen 1&2 vs Wiimotes 1-4

Bottom line is that there are alot more multiplayer option if you support 2 uScreens in addition to the wiimotes than just a single Uscreen & 4 wiimotes.

Online.
I do hope it can support two though.  Miyamoto said they were testing it out.

Multiplayer not being symetrical was the point I was trying to make though.  Multiplayer like that has so much potential but is never really done.  There are tons of ways coop could be done as well when you have different players with entirely different capabilities

[SixthAngel]

Ubisoft Rountable from yesterday.
http://uplay.us.ubi.com/e3/videos

"Ubisoft's Ghost Recon Online, Killer Freaks, and Assassin's Creed are about to hit the Nintendo Wii U!"
Footage of all (except AC) running on Wuu

Thanks for the link.

So this is the first time Nintendo's done this with a third party?  This plus the EA thing makes me think they've been doing some behind the scenes stuff to make sure those mutliplats head their way.

edit:  Is it really U-B-I  soft?  I always said it youbii soft.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ubisoft Rountable from yesterday.
http://uplay.us.ubi.com/e3/videos

"Ubisoft's Ghost Recon Online, Killer Freaks, and Assassin's Creed are about to hit the Nintendo Wii U!"
Footage of all (except AC) running on Wuu

Johnny Metts on the mic. I forgot the name of the baby face on the left. (1:01:42)
NWR Represent!!! I think I saw another NWR staffer (here)in one of the earlier questions (red shirt & glasses I think, but he didn't introduce himself so I can't be sure)

[ShyGuy]

Babyface is James "Wesley Crusher Jr." Jones

[ShyGuy]

Red Shirt is our fearless leader Neal, aka Son of Moe Howard.

[ThePerm]

No one seems to realize that Wii u has an entirely new concept for multiplayer.  Current multiplayer games involve people fighting each other with the same tools.  Everyone is a guy fighting from the first person perspective, or everyone is car from the third person perspective.  By giving someone else the different controller suddenly you leave more room for someone in the multiplayer game to be completely different.  I think they showed it well in the demos I've heard about.

The controller's pretty useless for multiplayer if you can only have one of it.  Even if that wasn't the case, the controller would probably be prohibitively expensive to buy enough of them for 3-4 person multiplayer.

You obviously didn't understand what I said at all.  Multiplayer won't invovle people with u's playing against each other, it will involve people with u's and people with wii remotes playing against and with each other.  The different controllers will allow the different people to have unique purposes and gameplay.  It won't be two people shooting each other with the exact same tools, it will be two people shooting each other while the Wii u controller uses the screen to manipulate the level and help his team, or it will be two people playing a fps against an opponent with Wii u that controlls an army like an RTS.

Yes but your multiplayer is not symetrical. The person with the only uScreen has been separated from the group while everyone else teams up against them.
If you could use a 2nd uScreen, then you could separate into 2 teams
uScreen 1 + wiimote1 & wiimote2 vs uScreen2 + wiimote3 & wiimote4
or a head to head matchup of uScreen 1 vs uScreen 2
or uScreen 1&2 vs Wiimotes 1-4

Bottom line is that there are alot more multiplayer option if you support 2 uScreens in addition to the wiimotes than just a single Uscreen & 4 wiimotes.

might as well play online for that.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But if I was playing uScreen1 vs uScreen 2 in a game of football... that would defeat teh purpose of even having a personal screen as I have the whole TV to myself.

The whole point is to play locally vs people you know personally and then also have the option of playing the same games online against others too. Possibly even at the same time.

I just don't see why it wasn't planned from the start to use the new controller between 2 players so that they can play on equal terms without one of them having some sort of advantage over the other or using a completely different control scheme because they have to. I'm all for the new mixed control multi-player, and I really look forward to trying it out, but not at the expense of being able to play head to head with a friend with equal controls. And I really look forward to the types of games that will work both ways so I really hope Nintendo works that out before the next big event.

[ThePerm]

hey you get something new, this is slightly better than playing with the the Wii

you have a tv in your hands that magically talks to a box that talks to a big tv, the box has a lot to do like making realistic pictures that you can interact with, the stuff that its doing is already a miracle, but it not amazing enough? This man would explode if he saw that

[MorbidGod]

Isn't everyone constantly updating their Ipods, phones, Ipads, and computers? Everyone always wants the new seperior thing. Casuals will indeed upgrade when they see that new game they want.

But they upgrade things that are cheap. iPods are in the 200 dollar range. iPads -- I don't know if people actually upgrade, or more people are buying. I am sure some of the iPad owners bought an iPad 2 but I wouldn't have. Computers you generally upgrade when it no longer works. Some people -- like myself -- hope to upgrade every 6 or so years, but I am not considered to be "casual pc man". My parents have a Dell Intel P4 processor with 512mb of ram and never will buy a new computer unless that one breaks. They also wont buy the Wii U unless compelled to. And when it's more affordable.

You see, the question isn't if the casual market will buy the Wii U. It's when. They'll probably buy it as it becomes apparent they can no longer play the games they want on their Wii. What Nintendo needs to focus on, however, is getting the hardcore gamer back. If enough of us buy the Wii U at launch and buy the third party games that are released, third parties wont give up on the Wii U. They'll continue to support it.

[Ian Sane]

But that's the thing: the casuals don't care about owning something technologically superior to what they have.  If they had, they would have actually purchased titles other than Wii Sports, Wii Fit, and Mario Kart on the Wii.  Hell, they wouldn't have purchased a glorified GameCube in the Wii to begin with.  It's pointless going after the casuals with technology.  That's why I say that you have to convince them that the lame touchscreen-on-a-controller gimmick makes their wave-a-remote-to-make-stuff-happen gimmick obsolete.

To sell them on buying the thing?  Yeah some sort of killer app is needed.  I was just suggesting having improved graphics so that if anyone is thinking "how come I can't use that screen controller for my regular Wii" that gives them the reason.  It's not to sell anyone on it but just to shut up their stupid question.  The reason they didn't question why the Wii had to be a different system instead of a mere add-on to the Gamecube is because they never knew what a Gamecube was in the first place.
 
The challenges for Nintendo with the Wii U is twofold.  They have to get the core gamer back which will be a challenge because just attracting the third parties back isn't good enough because those same games will be on the other systems.  It's a mandatory improvement but it will not convince anyone to switch by itself.  Exclusives have to do that.  But they also can't assume the casuals will just line up.  We don't know how casuals will react to a new system.  What if for them videogames truly were a fad?  They sure as **** didn't buy much beyond a handful of titles to begin with.  A few years back videogames were all the rage at my office because of Rock Band and the Wii.  Now no one talks about games but the core gamers.  The casual Wii owners at my office have not bought a game in years.  There are also now iPod/iPad games that are going after the same market.  The Wii Sports audience and the Angry Birds audience are the same.

[Adrock]

What exclusives? Big 3rd parties generally don't make exclusive titles anymore unless console manufacturers pay for exclusivity and even then, it's usually timed exclusivity or DLC. Nintendo needs a strong enough 3rd party lineup to keep their fans from jumping ship or also buying their competition's machines because the vast majority of exclusives are now 1st party titles.

[broodwars]

What exclusives? Big 3rd parties generally don't make exclusive titles anymore unless console manufacturers pay for exclusivity and even then, it's usually timed exclusivity or DLC. Nintendo needs a strong enough 3rd party lineup to keep their fans from jumping ship or also buying their competition's machines because the vast majority of exclusives are now 1st party titles.

The problem Nintendo has with that right now is that if you care about 3rd party games like those in that demo reel, you probably already own one of the HD consoles.  You're not going to wait a year for the Wii U to get launch-era ports.  You're just going to grab them for the Xbox 360 or PS3 as they release.  And since Nintendo didn't show any 1st party titles (and given that the ones they had on the Wii weren't exactly spectacular compared to games on previous Nintendo consoles), I'm struggling to see why I would buy this machine.  There are no 3rd party exclusives yet aside from some nebulous content for Ninja Gaiden 3, and the only 1st party exclusive we've been told about hasn't even started production yet (Smash Bros.).

Oh, and in the meantime, Nintendo has summarily abandoned the Wii, content to get a few late-comers like Zelda out the door before pulling the knife out of the system.