Author Topic: More Nintendo brainstorming  (Read 3747 times)

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Offline Gamebasher

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More Nintendo brainstorming
« on: July 05, 2003, 10:48:02 AM »
After my most recent posting about that article over at N-gamer.com entitled "Nintendo´s missing mojo", I got a lot of responses from you people here in this forum. Well, I want to throw the ball once more with yet another new topic, because I think that it is important with yet more brainstorming over the issues that relate to our favourite, but currently more or less besieged gamescompany.

Yes, that article contained many true points, and yes the situation is alarming for Nintendo. That is why I posted it in the first place. Perhaps many people here have already read a ton of such information. But has anybody taken the initiative to bring that same information to the rest of the Nintendo community (Nintendo gamers)??? One thing is to see and read something individually, quite another to read it collectively. The more people who rally behind a cause, the more power to change things there is! So instead of fighting over what we all think about Nintendo´s current situation, why not find the points we can all agree on and in unison knock at Nintendo´s door (i.e. flood them with e-mails about it) so they know what is going on? If no response there, we can just have fun talking on our own and maybe they will sneak peak over here at the forum and find out what their fans are talking about! So let´s get to it (replies welcome, but no fanboy rants, OK? This is a serious discussion!):

1) I hold that Nintendo should not compromise the quality of their first-party titles to give time to attract 3. party software and hope to garner more gamers that way. The three most important games for Nintendo right now to NOT compromise the quality of, or forget the high expectations to is: Mario (considerable numbers of articles, editorials and direct complaints over it has filled the media for some time now) and Zelda (-same here) and Pokemon! These are the three games that most people associate Nintendo with. Metroid is not so well-known right now, as there hasn´t been one since the SNES days. Whether it is Mario first or Pokemon first I don´t know, but these two alone needs serious updates on GCN, with the latter never making an appearance there so far. Take, the Nintendo 64. Mario appeared there from the word go and it was a phenomenal success, causing the N64 to outsell the PSX for a long time. They didn´t make a sequel due to internal issues. But they saw the power it had and did nothing about it. Had they included a Mario 64 2, as they in fact promised was in the making a lot of times, the N64 would have benefitted tremendously. Pokemon arrived a long time in the N64´s lifecycle, and by then only coregamers were left to care. Then there is the Zelda´s, with first OOT arriving and knocking down everything in sight, with an expected sequel never making it because we got MM, which they admitted was merely a side-quest.

You can´t hook people on something, and then forget them later. Regardless of the reason. There  i s  no legal reason. You´re either in the game or you´re out! And you have to obey the rules of it if you´re in!! This is not a kindergarten where you can run to and fro doing what YOU like, this is a gamesmarket worth billions of Dollars and still growing!

2) I hold, that Nintendo´s competitors are doing way better than itself. Playstation 2 aside (with all it´s pirated software bs that naturally has people with low morality jump on that bandwagon), I will mention only the X-BOX. This machine appeared in the market recently hoping to get a share of that market and what is it doing to achieve it? It is doing what it should! It is supplying the market with the goods that the market wants. A constant flow of games, of very varied content and -gameplay to suit everyones needs. But most importantly: it is giving the first-party games and proper sequels to those games that people want! Voila, their userbase is growing fast!

HALO 1 was a great success, so they make HALO 2, which is even more jawdropping in quality (as people at E3 this year witnessed). Project Gotham Racing was a great success too, and it too is getting an upgraded sequel in the form of Project Gotham Racing 2! I can mention Dead or Alive 4 from Tecmo. SEGA will drop Virtua Cop 3 on the platform too, and there are many developers who pump out the sequels in a never ending line of games. Nintendo is admittedly trying to do the same, to get as many third-parties to publish games on their platform. But they see that more and more of them drop out and stay making games for the remaining two. Why? Like I have already said: because they dissapointed with the first-party titles at the launch of the GCN. The first-party titles are their bread and butter and they fling gamers around from one akward sequel to the next. No wonder people leave for the other consoles (Sunshine was uninspiring and too difficult with downright ugly textures and a strange, limited setting/Zelda was not just cell-shaded but strange too and foreign in the gameplay as well...Zelda in a boat (what´s the next thing they´ll invent? Zelda in a rocket?)? On an ocean that´s downright boring to explore? Islands that are too small to warrant proper exploration? I would pick Hyrule Field or similar settings any day! Plenty of lush greenery, wide open expanses leading to mysterious mountains, deep dark caves...just love it. Know that a lot of people do too.

What Nintendo must never do, nomatter how hard they try to widen their userbase and attract the mainstream gamer, is to lower the EXPECTED standard of setting and gameplay in their first-party titles!  No wonder the developers fear for the sales of THEIR games on the console! Do you think I sound like a Nintendo hater? I´m not! But I can see what´s going on. You can´t say that Microsoft dissapointed anyone at the launch of the X-BOX. There were 4 jaw-dropping games at launch there, the GCN had maybe one. And it wasn´t Mario. We had waited 6 years for the sequel, but it didn´t show.

Nintendo has stated that they don´t want to follow the current trend of realism in the games, that they want to follow their own way and do what they like and inspire others to get creative and widen the market from there. They said that if suddenly the market changed away from cell-shading, they would go towards realism. So they say they want to oppose the market trend. How do you widen the market you serve, by opposing it? They see what they get, I´d say! Or do they? I think I will try to tell a lot of customers in a shop I know, that I am the new shop-owner and that I am going run things very differently from now on. Tell them they can´t get their favourite goods there anylonger, because I "know better". I will tell them I am going to import beans, eggs and flour from outer Mongolia, because "the environment out there is better for the growth of such beans, better for the chickens (stone-cold, though, but don´t "mind"), and with huge open expanses of open ground to grow wheat (no mention of extreme, unfriendly weather) and that they can look in the yellow pages for the things they used to get and still want! Because "I know better". Pretty soon, I will be wondering where all my customers w-e-n-t...!

3) I hold that Nintendo has gone from being a friendly, open-minded company to a company that is arrogant and narrow-minded. And I am not meaning to drop inflammatory posts here just like that, I simply state how I feel as a very dissapointed gamer. Of course, I could just buy an X-BOX or a Playstation 2. But, I wont! Know why? Because I love Nintendo, want them to succeed and therefore urge them to change their current direction! Nintendo these days is like a friendly, but strict parent who will give the children what is deemed best for them. The only problem here is that they must be able to see with the eyes of the same child, to know what´s better for the child. And they don´t do that! They see with their own eyes, and forget the child. So they go from being caring and friendly, to uncaring and arrogant! And the child (gamers) suffer!

Do you think anyone believes in a company that goes against the modern day trend of interactive entertainment? Who would go against the realism in the games, which give people the freedom to be in any world, any place, any time they choose and have a direct influence of the outcome in those very surroundings? Why do you think that the gamesindustry in surpassing the movieindustry in annual revenue? Because of realism in games! Because they are the next level from the movies and up: to go into the screen and be there to do what you want! Explore, shoot, race, climb, dive etc. in surroundings that they can associate with...that look like the movies they love, but where they can have direct implication on what happens next and so love even more! Behind the salesfigures there is an explanation! Also, concerning Nintendo´s own sales figures. Time to wake up, Nintendo! Q: Hello, is anyone there? Miyamoto-san, are you listening? A: ZZZZZZZZZZ...  

Gamebasher.    
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline XMasterLinkX

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RE: More Nintendo brainstorming
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2003, 11:55:48 AM »
Gamebasher and All Nintendo and Non Nintendo fans out there:  I will let out all of the true information about N Sider and all of those fan sites, why everyone should not believe anythere they say.

 N Sider is a damn fansite!  There is no proof that Nintendo is going third party, nor is there proof that they will lose companies...  Sports games will be to a limited portion, but will not go away.  Nintendo simply wants to focus on RPG's, and Adventures games.  That is what they do best, as too they make Sports Games great.  Sports games will eventually spark back up for Nintendo, and I think that Nintendo is doing a great job, on making there adventure\RPG games ie. Mario, Zelda, etc.  Nintendo has had a thing for making games for the younger generation, but just because Microsoft comes into the business and makes a whole load of First Person Shooters doesn't mean they are the best out there.  Every System has there ups and downs.  But I don't care what you or N Sider or any other non official Nintendo fact says, because when Nintendo states that they might go Third Party, I will believe it.  I believe in Nintendo, and Nintendo is already in the process of announcing there next system, which should be interesting to see, as I have also heard rumors, and saw pics of rumoring Nintendo Systems.  But whatever the fact or shall I say opinions since, you all are stupid enough to believe N Sider, and other fanboys, that Nintendo will not go Third Party, and I would think after about a year, this rumor has been going on, or shall i say ever longer, when the 64 is out they were talking about this.  So don't expect to see the Nintendo go down the drain, because Nintendo is strictly Video Games, as Microsoft, is strictly Computers, and Hardware, not Video Games, so any system that should worry is XBox, because once they make there next system, it could go wrong, as the same thing Sega did, and they still are doing great.  I am not saying anything, I am just saying keep the focus off of Nintendo as you don't know, and think about the other systems as well, because Nintendo is not the only system that is out there.  THis is all I have to say, and I spit on the ground at all fanboys that believe stupid stuff...

XMasterLinkX(The Real Link)
"Games are good when they relive there past" <my quote>

Offline alvinaloy

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More Nintendo brainstorming
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2003, 03:23:23 PM »
What I will say to Gamebasher is... Got get a job at Nintendo. Or set up your own game company. Theoratical ramblings are always easier than getting the actual thing done.

Offline Myxtika1 Azn

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More Nintendo brainstorming
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2003, 05:15:19 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: XMasterLinkX
Gamebasher and All Nintendo and Non Nintendo fans out there:  I will let out all of the true information about N Sider and all of those fan sites, why everyone should not ..........THis is all I have to say, and I spit on the ground at all fanboys that believe stupid stuff...

XMasterLinkX(The Real Link)


**claps hands**
500 years ago, I shook the Pillars of Heaven.  Why should I fear a runt like you?

Offline Rich

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RE: More Nintendo brainstorming
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2003, 05:50:49 PM »
I agree with XMasterLinkX. Though Nintendo does have many problems, I trust that they will make the best decision as they have been. Oh and guys you do remember how Nintendo is making the more money from the video game market than both Sony and Microsoft (especially MS who are still losing money on every console they sell and losing tons on Xbox Live). so obviously Nintendo can make some good business decisions if they are making the most money.

Rich

Offline Link

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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2003, 08:39:53 PM »
I would hate to live in your one dimensional world.
Everything would be fine if Nintendo made 3 or 4 GTA clones right?

Offline Cooolcorey

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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2003, 09:14:15 PM »
That's not what Nintendo is about. You will never hear about Nintendo making "GTA clones" or any kind of clones, because they want innovation. Innovation = new. New is good. If Nintendo didn't innovate, then this market may not have even taken off.

Rich there has the right idea. People say they have poor sales, so they're going to go 3rd party, but they're making money on every single sale, so why would they stop? It's just stupid to think that way.

I would comment on Gamebasher's crazy long post, but I think I'm done with this argument. If you guys don't understand it now, then I'm not trying anymore.

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: More Nintendo brainstorming
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2003, 11:27:11 PM »
1. If the solution was as easy as two out of three fanboys suggest, don't you think N would have alread taken it?

2. Going against the trend has a logic: The "trendy" games are covered by many companies. Nintendo seeks to travel into the unknown territories, exploring new gameplays. Other companies then might notice their success and clone the gameplay. Hell, you know how many clones Commandos spawned!  

Offline Gamebasher

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More Nintendo brainstorming
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2003, 09:03:45 AM »
Did you people really read all in my topic? I think not, so maybe it was just too damn long. But there´s also so darn much to say.

For one thing, I don´t believe Nintendo will go third-party! Ever. If they do that, it´s the end of the videogame industry as we know it. The others don´t know games like Nintendo. So that tremedously powerfull creative influence would be lost. But my point is that it is darn strange why Nintendo make so many different versions of their main-franchises instead of sticking to what is tried and proved as a success. They do that all the time on the GBA, with sequels upon sequels of Mario, and Pokemon! So why can´t they do the same on GameCube? And that is what puts me off! You can´t expect mainstream gamers to take them serious, and help them widen their userbase, if they flood their machine with third-party games that they can go and get today on any of the other two machines available if  their first-party games have lost their magic! Because that´s what they have! And that is what that article at N-sider irrevocably concluded. N-sider is people like us, who play games like we do, and can judge how they fell like we can. Only, they´re unbiased when they do, unlike many others who either score games too high or refrain from criticism where appropriate. N-sider are not anymore a fanboy site than us, they just say thing directly and that can put some people off.

Secondly, I am not saying that they should start to make clones of GTA! Nintendo will always make only their own games, and thank God for that. But they should make Mario and Zelda and Pokemon and Metroid as great as they possibly can, yes as good as they were on the Nintendo 64, and also keep loads of other games on their platform. When the first-party titles are their best, people will buy the GC just to see what it is all about, since that is what make it stand out from the other machines and their games respectively.

But the first-party titles have to show the might of the company´s potential and not be "shorter and more frequent". That is what N-sider also commented as being unwise! Because in that way they lose the gamers they already have. We were always made accustomed to long, immensely playable games with loads of goodies on Nintendo´s platform and with that special Nintendo magic feel that only they can create. Whole dreamworlds we could immerse ourselves in, a universal playground, as I think Miyamoto once labelled it. Take that away from me, I say, and I will be upset! I, everyone I know, people in general want what they are used to, and do not like things to stray too much away from that!!

So this is the carefull balancing act Nintendo must master. The N64 had all the right first-party titles, and few really good third-party titles. The GameCube has all the right 3. party titles, and few really good first-party-titles!  So from being at one end of the scale, they went straight to the other end, and with just as little balance! Like that N-sider editorial stated. So maybe they will finally get it right, with GC2? And land right in the middle? I hope so, because then they will be the No. 1 again!!! Be damn sure of it!

Gamebasher.  
Nintendo is the originator of videogame innovation! The Great Mover of the Industry. Past, present and future. Rightfully, the King of Videogaming!

Offline Cooolcorey

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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2003, 03:15:12 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Gamebasher
Secondly, I am not saying that they should start to make clones of GTA!


Link said the GTA comment. Did you read all of his post?

Offline Link

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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2003, 05:47:42 PM »
Ok. It really sounds like you really care about Nintendo. Here's my take on this whole 1st place second place thing. I don't have any less fun with my games knowing Nintendo is in second place or maybe even thrid place. I don't really care about that. When I was 14 I took comfort knowing I supported the SuperNES, the king of 16-bit consoles. Now, it doesn't matter. I just buy what I believe I'll have the most fun with.
I didn't buy an N64 until last year. I bought a PS1 back in '97 instead because it had more of what I wanted on it. This generation, I bought a Gamecube. I love the big N as much as any fan probably should. I don't hide the fact that I'm a die hard Nintendo fan. I always will be, but still it's all about FUN.

Now about the games you were mentioning...
Yes, I would love to see more "new" things from Nintendo. If we never get another Mother/Earthbound game, I really would love to see Nintendo give another shot at some RPG's. Maybe even a "mature" RPG. Whatever, just something new.
Having said that, I have no problem at all with sequels. Nevermind the fact that there is currently only 1 real Super Mario and 1 Zelda game on the Cube, you talk as if Ninendo is the only developer doing that. Nobody yells at Capcom for making 17 RE games each year, or Square for the ungodly number FF games. I just don't get it.

Oh and about Nintendo losing gamers it already has. I'll try to make this very short.
I have a friend who bought his PS1 with me. He also bought a PS2 when it came out. I showed him my Previews Disk with F-Zero and Rebel Strike, and all the websites with Final Fantasy and Mario Kart. He's played Mario and Zedla at here at my house. Guess what? he just shook his head with his mouth wide open saying, "I have to get a mother^!%$! Gamecube!" I seriously believe in my heart that Nintendo is not losing anyone. From what I've seen in just my area, the EXACT oppsoite is happening. EVERYONE I know either has a Cube, or is dying to get one. I think that really says something.

Offline penfold

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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2003, 06:32:43 PM »
Nintendo has always made top quality AAA games and this is what has worked for years and years. They make games that truly shows what videogaming is all about. Nothing that Sony or Microsoft does will ever change what Nintendo does. Nintendo is interested in producing games that the whole family will enjoy. Afterall, do you see a whole family getting together for a multiplayer Unreal Championship?  

Offline HolyPaladin

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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2003, 07:16:50 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Link
Oh and about Nintendo losing gamers it already has. I'll try to make this very short.
I have a friend who bought his PS1 with me. He also bought a PS2 when it came out. I showed him my Previews Disk with F-Zero and Rebel Strike, and all the websites with Final Fantasy and Mario Kart. He's played Mario and Zedla at here at my house. Guess what? he just shook his head with his mouth wide open saying, "I have to get a mother^!%$! Gamecube!" I seriously believe in my heart that Nintendo is not losing anyone. From what I've seen in just my area, the EXACT oppsoite is happening. EVERYONE I know either has a Cube, or is dying to get one. I think that really says something.


Just the other day, on Friday, July 4 (to put a timeframe to this), I spent the night at the house of an old college buddy of mine and I brought my Gamecube and a dozen of my games with me for him to play.  First, he was blown away all over again at the petite size of the console, which is smaller than he remembered it, as well as were the games.  He spent seven straight hours that night, until he fell asleep at 3:30 AM though he is used to having been in bed five hours earlier than that, playing my games and continued on Saturday morning after he woke back up.  He was coninually amazed at the games and at how much he loved them, repeatedly suggesting to his wife that he absolutely must have a Gamecube; that it is not an option.  That says something, too, and it agrees.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

- Edmund Burke

If whatever I just posted sounds rude/hateful/whatever then you probably read it wrong, but I will insert apology here, anyways, just in case.

Offline greenwisher

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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2003, 06:43:34 PM »
I have to agree with holy paladin...
nintendo does not have a software problem, it has an image problem. I also had a similar experience with my cube. I have started to take it to parties and on vacation. Once people play the games they LOVE the cube. But that's the prob. getting people to play the games... The cube itself, my lovely "indgo" color looks kinda "kiddy."  So needless to say it doesn't help the image problem any. Gamers my age "23-30" unfamilar with the cube pass it off right away due to the hardware's looks, and the popular belief that nintendo is a system for little kids.
It looks like the price point and some of the great games coming out this fall will help the cube in the long run, but I'm not looking for any dramatic changes till the next gen console comes out, changing your Image takes a lot of time.
...you can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes, you just might find... you get what you need...  

Offline Link

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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2003, 06:58:02 PM »
My buddy bought his Cube last night. He chose the Zelda bundle. He got it at Wal-Mart where we both work. So he got a cube with LoZ:WW, OoT, OoT:MQ, and a Gameboy link cable for about $135 with our Wal-Mart discount. He went around to show it off everybody that even remotely likes video games. 7 people(adults I might add) in our store have now sworn to buy a Cube. How's that for a image problem?

Offline Nintega

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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2003, 07:21:30 PM »
Nintendo doesn't need to follow the trend to make a great game.  The majority of game companies are going with style over substance because that's what sells regardless if the game is good or not.  No wonder third party are blaming Nintendo for lack of sales.  Nintendo makes games for E = everybody, not M = morons.  Everyone too worried about what games the other console are getting instead of the games the Gamecube is getting.

And GameBasher, I know you mean well but I don't really believe you say your disappointed as a gamer, otherwise you would've gone with the other consoles and be happy.