Topic: 2K Games President on Wii: 'Flooded by Crappy Titles'

[Kairon]

Consumers are at risk of becoming "pissed off," Carnival Games would have it "much tougher" today, claims Cristoph Hartmann.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=17531

 2K Games President Cristoph Hartmann didn't mince words when describing the difficulties of the Wii marketplace. "There are too many crappy games on Wii," he complained to MCV.    

Going into detail, Hartmann talked about how game makers were mucking things up. "They're treating the Wii like the old PC market – making cheap, accessible games." He explained, "They think if they make ten titles and two are hits, they will finance the other eight." But Hartmann felt that the hidden costs of a flood of cheap, failing titles would come back to haunt everyone involved. "They forget these eight crappy titles will flood the market and will lead to problems in terms of production – and upset retailers," He pointed out, "Also, the consumer will be pissed off because they'll be confused."    

It's that confused consumer that worries Hartmann. "Had we released [Carnival Games] last week, it would have been much tougher" he admitted, referring to 2K Games' 2007 million-seller. Even while he called the Wii "the strongest growing console," Hartmann focused on its difficulties. "There's far too much stuff in the Wii market and it's hard to shine."

[RABicle]

Some choice quotes from Eurogamer's version of this story.

The boss of the company which brought us Carnival Games (GameRankings rating: 58) has claimed the Wii software market is overrun with "crappy titles".

Hartmann, of course, is head of 2K, the publisher behind titles such as Go, Diego, Go!: Great Dinosaur Rescue (55).

added Hartmann, presumably not referring to 2K's own Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer (43).

continued Hartmann, who was probably not talking about Carnival Games: Mini-Golf (47).

2K's recent releases include Dora the Explorer: Dora Saves the Snow Princess (53), released for DS, PS2 and Wii on 5th December.

[UncleBob]

Some choice quotes from Eurogamer's version of this story.

The boss of the company which brought us Carnival Games (GameRankings rating: 58) has claimed the Wii software market is overrun with "crappy titles".

Hartmann, of course, is head of 2K, the publisher behind titles such as Go, Diego, Go!: Great Dinosaur Rescue (55).

added Hartmann, presumably not referring to 2K's own Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer (43).

continued Hartmann, who was probably not talking about Carnival Games: Mini-Golf (47).

2K's recent releases include Dora the Explorer: Dora Saves the Snow Princess (53), released for DS, PS2 and Wii on 5th December.

Win!

[Smash_Brother]

Did the PS2 get these kinds of complaints?

It definitely SHOULD have...

[nickmitch]

When did James get promoted?

[Peachylala]

Did the PS2 get these kinds of complaints?

It definitely SHOULD have...

No, Nintendo is everyone's scape goat. If it happens on a Nintendo console, you have to bitch about it. It's basically how the rules have for... I guess, forever, maybe.

[ryro]

I can't speak for the rest of 2K Games library, but my wife bought the original Carnival Games and you know... it has its flaws (no Mii incorporation Braaaah) BUT overall the games WORK.  They got the motion control to WORK.  Could it be better from a polish point of view?  Sure, absolutely.   But it's not an utter piece of **** by any means, and they really did a great job with the motion control and making you feel like you're "playing" the various games. 

That's the irony with the Wii.  My wife and I own about three multi-player games because so many are such crap.  I don't think there's been a single game that has ever really capitalized on the promise and execution of Wii Sports.  Most of the time you just waggle instead of pushing a button, and the games that try to do something more seem unable to pull it off so the game is broken. 

[Kairon]

Yeah Ryro, both Golden Phoenix and I on the NWR boards can attest that Carnival Games has qualities that are overlooked and that many people don't even take the time to consider. The game in general has an immense amount of prejudice against it, which really is sad. (Actually, I only bought it on GP's recommendation myself!)

As to your point about how few games have capitalized on the Wii to the extent Wii Sports has, I agree. The Wii is challenging developers in new ways with new problems that can't be solved by licensing the Unreal 3 Engine, and it does show. However, it's these new challenges that make the Wii so exciting in my opinion, and a real opportunity for game makers if they want to break out of stereotypes and explore new options.

[NWR_pap64]

Did the PS2 get these kinds of complaints?

It definitely SHOULD have...

No, Nintendo is everyone's scape goat. If it happens on a Nintendo console, you have to bitch about it. It's basically how the rules have for... I guess, forever, maybe.

Actually, the DS gets A LOT of shovelware titles, including rushed "casual" titles and I don't see anyone complaining about it. Its the Wii that gets the most attention.  The NES and SNES also got terrible titles and yet no one says anything about it...except the Angry Videogame Nerd.

I think the Wii is the escape goat since its apparently the cool thing is to bash the system, even if its a success that has broken the boundaries of what gaming is.

[broodwars]

If 2K games wants to whine about the Wii market being "flooded by crappy titles," they should put their money where their mouth is and find a way to port or build a quality title like Bioshock to the Wii.  Yeah, the graphics would have to be downgraded and the water would pose a problem, but I can't see it looking much worse on the console than when I had to play the PC version on my laptop with all the bells & whistles turned off.

This is my problem with 3rd parties who whine about the state of 3rd party software on the Wii: they whine about how bad it is, and yet they maybe toss out 1 or 2 worthwhile projects on the console, if that.  According to IGN, 2K games has released a grand total of one game on the Wii in 2008, and it was a mediocre baseball game.  You get to whine about the market when you put something out that's worthy of people actually buying, but they don't.  2K Games hasn't earned that right yet.

[NWR_insanolord]

The baseball game was better than mediocre, it had very good controls and fun gameplay despite the graphics of an above average Dreamcast game and they also released a hockey game, but yeah, 2K hasn't done much on the Wii recently.

[MaleficentOgre]

Agreed. Nothing worse than people complaining about a problem they can easily fix. Also, good games on wii don't have marketing behind them. No one is going to buy your product if they don't know about it. It's no one's fault but their own if their game doesn't sell well.

[Ymeegod]

Well for starters nintendo's attracting alot of "new" gamers who are uninformed and end up buying these shovelware games while good games get overlooked. 

It happens on the other systems as well but with the new market nintendo's aiming at alot of these developers are preying on them like.  Simply get a friendly-cartoony character on the box and mark it at a bargin price and mom+pop will end up buying it.

What nintendo used to have was the Player's Choice awards but even that doesn't mean much--the shovelware just has to sell well.  Most stores in my area have a managers selections because so many people simply don't know what's good.  Managers selections is actually another sad tale since it's usually crappy titles that's taking up self space.

The best thing you can do is word of mouth.  I tend to help relatives with alot of their choices otherwise my poor little cuz would be stuck with CC instead of a hit like Boom Box.

 

[KDR_11k]

Or at least developers think that these new customers are stupid and will buy anaything just because they bought some things that were bad by core game standards...

[Ian Sane]

Did the PS2 get these kinds of complaints?

It definitely SHOULD have...

Well see the PS2 also had GOOD games from third parties and that made a big difference.  This is also what the NES, SNES, PS1, GBA and currently the DS have going for them.  2K Games would have put Bioshock AND Carnival Games on the PS2.  With the Wii you just get the crap.  The third parties now split things up and put their sh!t on the Wii and their good stuff on the other consoles.  I know everyone likes the pretend the Wii is just like the PS2 but that's not the case at all.  The Wii's criticism is largely deserved as third parties just treat it as the shovelware console for stupid non-gamers.  In the past the market leader got all the crap PLUS all the good stuff.  That's what made dealing with the crap worthwhile.  That's why everyone pretty much ignored the crap because why pay attention to it when all the best third party games are on the same shelf?  The Wii only gets the crap, with the odd decent quirky third party title here and there, "almost but not quite as good as the other versions" mulitplatform releases, and decent ports of last-gen third party games.

Though the 2K Games guy's comments are laughably ironic.  He's actually completely right but his own company is a perfect example of what he's crapping on.  The pot calling the kettle black may be silly but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

[KDR_11k]

That's what they make you think, then you buy another console and notice that the grass is not greener, it's brown-grayish.

[Peachylala]

That's what they make you think, then you buy another console and notice that the grass is not greener, it's brown-grayish.

Let's also not forget some game developers passing their stories as "Oscar" quality.

[Mop it up]

There's also this:

"Pareto's Principle says 80% of effects are brought about by only 20% of causes. It's a handy rule, and one the NPD Group are busting out to try and explain 2008's year in software sales.

While PS3 and 360 sales still held to the 20/80 rule, the Wii didn't. Only 13% of Wii games accounted for around 80% of sales.

...for all the [crappy] third-party ports and shovelware that hit the Wii in 2008, the only things that really sold were Nintendo's own Wii Fit, Wii Play, Mario Kart and Smash Bros. And combined, they sold a lot."

http://kotaku.com/5134994/massive-wii-game-sales-driven-by-only-a-handful-of-wii-games

You know why Nintendo's games sold? Because they were actually good. Maybe third-parties could learn something from this... like release less games overall, but make those games better.

[Mario]

LOL

Thread about a flood of crappy titles, last post by Mop_it_up

[KDR_11k]

Well, not anymore.

[Mop it up]

If nothing else, I'm glad I could bring some humour to the forum, even if it was unintentional.

[Kairon]

If nothing else, I'm glad I could bring some humour to the forum, even if it was unintentional.

LOL. It took me FOREVER to get the joke.