Topic: Switch port begging thread

[Soren]

Just like the tepid reaction to Mario 3D World caused them to change course, I doubt they were happy with the reaction to NSMB 2 and U.

Can we not? The games sold nearly 6 million copies each and had they not been attached to the failure of a console that was Wii U they probably would have done much better. The games were great but were undone by the hardware they were released on, not the other way around.

[BranDonk Kong]

Yeah I don't get that description. Super Mario 3D World sold the same exact number of units as New Super Mario Bros U (5.75 million) - they're both ties for the second-best selling game on Wii U. Oh, and it's a good damn masterpiece. You can't really compare anything on the Wii U with the 3DS, which has 5 times the install base.

[nickmitch]

I think the only reason there was a change from 3D World is because it was built from 3D Land and Nintendo wanted to start the next 3D Mario from scratch.

[Luigi Dude]

I'm one of the biggest fans of NSMB U here and I loved 3D World as well but from a marketing standpoint neither game really generated the kind of excitement previous Mario platformers have.  I mean the reaction to both games from the general public in 2012/2013 was basically, "Oh hey it's another 2D/3D Mario game, it'll probably be fun but looks very similar to it's predecessor".

Yes they both sold great considering the install base of the Wii U, but that's like saying Nintendo was happy with Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker because they sold well considering what the Gamecube sales were.  These kind of games are expected to help drive the sales of said systems and if they aren't doing the job, you better believe Nintendo takes the criticism much more serious.  Yes the systems themselves need to be more appealing, but the games are one of the main forces behind making said system more appealing to people.  The N64 had similar image problems and long game droughts just as bad as the Gamecube and Wii U and yet it sold more then both systems because its biggest games were more appealing and generated more excitement to a wider audience then the other two. 

Of course this doesn't mean Nintendo hates the games and feel they were bad.  It's just means they feel the games weren't the right product for the market at that time and they'll act accordingly in the next installment.  There's a reason many of the Gamecubes best sellers went in different directions for their Wii sequels and now they're doing the same on Switch to an even greater degree with both Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey, where both games are literally the opposite of what people were complaining about in their predecessors.  That's why I expect the next 2D Mario to ditch the New name and be filled with more unique environments and more detailed graphics to at least solve the biggest complaint about the games all looking the same.

[Ian Sane]

There is a big difference between a game that moves systems and one that sells well to the pre-existing userbase.  As Luigi Dude pointed out, Mario Odyssey is moving systems while 3D World was selling to the Wii U userbase.  Though now that Mario has sold Switches I suppose the "need" for other Mario games to do the same isn't there.  So in theory they could bust out NSMB and Mario 3D Land style games to sell to the existing Switch userbase.  But they probably wouldn't sell as well as Super Mario Odyssey 2 would which would capitalize on the first game's buzz.

One thing I find very dull about NSMB/3D Land is they all use the same Mario models.  If I showed you a screenshot from a NSMB game could you immediately identify which one it was if you hadn't memorized the levels?  At the same time if I showed shots of the NES Marios you could easily identify the game in every screenshot (well excluding Lost Levels).  I would like the next 2D Mario to have a unique look.  Even just sprites or cel-shaded graphics could help make the game stand out.  Or why not try something a little more out there like the experimental Kirby games?  What if you had a 2D Mario with Mario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario all as playable characters and they all control differently like they do in their respective platformers?  So the levels have secret areas and branching paths that only certain characters can access?  Actually they did do some of this with Yoshi's Island DS so incorporate that idea into a mainline Mario game.  Or what about a SSB 2D platformer so it has the Nintendo character crossover but it's a platformer instead of a fighting game?  What about a 2D Mario Metroidvania?  There are lots of twists they can do with 2D Mario.

[Adrock]

If I showed you a screenshot from a NSMB game could you immediately identify which one it was if you hadn't memorized the levels?

Yes. Very easily, in fact. Ignoring the exclusive power-ups, each of the NSMB games displays in a different resolution. Granted, I’m tired of the weirdly plastic-looking NSMB art style, but your argument here is pretty weak.

To get back on topic, may I have the good Paper Mario games with Color Splash’s graphics?

Oh, and every Platinum Games title. I want another crack at The Wonderful 101.

[lolmonade]

If I showed you a screenshot from a NSMB game could you immediately identify which one it was if you hadn't memorized the levels?

Yes. Very easily, in fact. Ignoring the exclusive power-ups, each of the NSMB games displays in a different resolution. Granted, I’m tired of the weirdly plastic-looking NSMB art style, but your argument here is pretty weak.

It's a lazy comment, but it's not unfair to point out each entry in that series was very iterative with small changes/improvements.  That in particular is why I can't make myself play the DS or Wii games, because once the Wii U versions came out, they felt so clean and refined compared to the fairly boring levels I recall from the first two.


Either way, I hope they have a real drastic departure from that style in the next 2D game.  I miss how stark the differences were between iterations back on NES.

[lolmonade]

I won't lie, my biggest Switch dreams are mostly coming true as more indies start making an effort to bring their games to the system.


I think if there were any I think would be a good home to the system, it'd be:


Persona 5 - There's a PS3 version already, so I assume it's capable.
Dragonball Fighter Z - as long as they'd prioritize FPS over visuals, it'd still look pretty good on the system, i'd imagine.
Nidhogg 1/2 - Great competitive vs games, would work great IMO.
Duck Game - Manic/Zany multiplayer competitive game.




Other honorable mentions:

Pyre
Cuphead (not going to happen, but would be nice)

[Evan_B]

Isn’t Nidhogg 2 supposed to be coming to Switch? I thought I heard that somewhere.

[Adrock]

It's a lazy comment, but it's not unfair to point out each entry in that series was very iterative with small changes/improvements.

They're two separate points, and they aren't mutually exclusive. A person can both identify NSMB titles and admit that each entry is very iterative. Ian has a habit of resorting to strawmen which I find unnecessary especially in this instance. Is anyone really on the other side of the fence regarding the NSMB series?

Dragonball Fighter Z - as long as they'd prioritize FPS over visuals, it'd still look pretty good on the system, i'd imagine.

I mainly clicked back into this thread to mention this. I'm not much of a fighting game fan, but this game looks amazing. I'm confident it'd still look amazing on Switch. More importantly, it's similar to Super Smash Bros. in that all the inputs are the same for every character so that may help me get into it.

Also, I've been mispronouncing the title for like a year. Apparently, "FighterZ" is just "Fighters." That couldn't be more unclear, Bandai Namco.

[Luigi Dude]

Dragonball Fighter Z - as long as they'd prioritize FPS over visuals, it'd still look pretty good on the system, i'd imagine.

I think this game is almost a safe bet at this point.  Xenoverse 2 according to Namco's own reports did over 500k worldwide, which is pretty good for a late port.  Plus recent sales in Japan have shown the Switch version of Xenoverse 2 has recently outsold the PS4 version over there so that's a pretty big deal for a Japanese company.

Plus this is what the game looks like on it's lowest settings for the PC version.

So a Switch version should be able to run fine while still looking good if the engine is already pretty flexible with its scaling.  The lowest settings look like a 3DS game and the Switch can pull off much better visuals then that.

[nickmitch]

Also, I've been mispronouncing the title for like a year. Apparently, "FighterZ" is just "Fighters." That couldn't be more unclear, Bandai Namco.

Wait, really?  I've seen people abbreviate it to DBFZ, so I've been saying the "Z" separately.

[Adrock]

Wait, really?  I've seen people abbreviate it to DBFZ, so I've been saying the "Z" separately.

Yep.

[Evan_B]

That doesn’t make it any less dumb.

I don’t call the show DRAGONBALLS so I’m not calling their stupid game FIGHTERS.

[BranDonk Kong]

The real question is if you ran NSMB Wii in Dolphin emulator at 720p and compared it to NSMB U could you identify which is which - I doubt it. But back to the SM3D World argument - there aren't *any* games which sold Wii U consoles.

[Adrock]

That doesn’t make it any less dumb.

I don’t call the show DRAGONBALLS so I’m not calling their stupid game FIGHTERS.

Hey, I'm right there with you. The only thing worse than "FighterZ" would be "Fighter$." If I had to guess why the "Z" isn't separate, it's because the roster contains characters from Dragon Ball Super, but marketing is easier if you still invoke the "Z" from Dragon Ball Z.

[Khushrenada]

I'd argue Mario Kart 8 was the one game that seemed to cause a bit of an uptick in sales even if it was a minor increase but that game has already arrived on the Switch long ago and done its part.

I also remember when Super Mario 3D World came out, it actually got a lot of positive press and praise. It was the same time the PS4 and XBOne launched and I think it was IGN that said SM3DW was Nintendo's secret weapon to combating the buzz of those released consoles because all they wanted to talk about it and post on twitter was stuff from that game compared to any of the launch titles for the new systems. In the end, it didn't really do anything to change the fortunes of the Wii U and, with a few years having passed since it was shiny and new, it's always felt like the majority of fans weren't really interested in this style of 3D Mario continuing. That's why you still had people hoping for a Galaxy 3 and it felt to me like there was a lot more excitement with Odyssey from when it was first briefly shown in the Switch reveal trailer because it promised less linear levels and more 3D exploration.

Compared to the 3D World reveal that seem to deflate people's enthusiasm who were waiting in anticipation to see the next 3D Mario, I don't think 3D World has ever really overcome that negative general perception even though reviews ended up being positive and a lot of people did like it. Odyssey, on the other hand, always had hype and positive reactions from it's reveal to its release which is part of the reason why it was able to move Switch systems on release compared to 3D World. If Nintendo had done a follow-up to 3D World on Switch, I don't think you see the same reaction or sales that Odyssey got and, in that regard, I agree with what Luigi Dude is saying. The majority of gamers didn't really care about 3D Mario multiplayer so that wasn't much of a draw in the end. Mario 64 and Galaxy are single player focused and that's what the fans want more. Even Sunshine seems to have more fans that the 3D Land/World style so it made the most sense for the series to return in that direction.

As for Ian's comments about the NSMB series, they've pretty much been taken apart already but I'l quickly add my two cents. Yes, I'm highly confident that I could distinguish which game was which from any screenshots one were to post or take between the four games. Even if you were to upgrade the graphics, as Brandonk Kong suggests, I still feel very confident I could distinguish between them. NSMB was pretty basic in its backgrounds while reusing a lot of SM64DS assets which helps distinguish it. NSMBWii had a lot of spinning ground in its game to distinguish it was well as more Super Mario World enemies and feel to the levels. Plus, different backgrounds. They've all got different backgrounds. NSMB2 should probably be the easiest of them all with its gold motif with gold enemies and so many coins in the levels. NSMBU has new enemies, power-ups and it seemed like it tried to have something different or visually new in each level to keep them unique and distinguishable a bit. Of course, it has some of the most unique backgrounds in the series.

The ultimate problem of the NSMB series isn't so much the visuals. It's the level design. To me, the series peaked with NSMBWii and the games after that felt really redundant. NSMBU took until about World 5 to reach levels that were more challenging and engaging. But half the game I felt kind of bored and had to push myself to keep playing because it just wasn't that challenging and felt kind of stale. NSMB2 seemed more designed for its coin rush mode and idea. Thus playing the levels on their own in the normal game mode also didn't inspire much enthusiasm as I progressed and it is the one game I probably remember the least of in the series but, thanks to the gold motif, I could probably still pick out screenshots easily. Nintendo did try some new ideas throughout the series but they still kept the level design pretty safe and didn't really try to change the formula up too much which is the biggest knock on those games and why New Super Luigi U may have been the best in the bunch because it did try something different and had more of a challenge. Of all the games, NSMBWii is the one I have felt like revisiting for some time so one of these days I may give it another spin to see how it compares but I feel like that and Luigi U were the best things worth playing in this series.

[Shaymin]

I think if there were any I think would be a good home to the system, it'd be:

Duck Game - Manic/Zany multiplayer competitive game.

Pretty sure this was already announced as part of the first Adult Swim wave (with Battle Chef Brigade and Toe Jam & Earl 2018). They were definitely talking about it at PAX East last year.

[lolmonade]

I think if there were any I think would be a good home to the system, it'd be:

Duck Game - Manic/Zany multiplayer competitive game.

Pretty sure this was already announced as part of the first Adult Swim wave (with Battle Chef Brigade and Toe Jam & Earl 2018). They were definitely talking about it at PAX East last year.

Good news, if true.  The portable nature of the switch and me having 6 controllers at this point means I want to have as many dumb frantic fun local multiplayer games on the system as possible.

[lolmonade]

Also, I've been mispronouncing the title for like a year. Apparently, "FighterZ" is just "Fighters." That couldn't be more unclear, Bandai Namco.

I don't care what Namco says, it'll always be FighterZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ  to me.

[Mop it up]

I haven't really been following other systems lately, but I'm sure there are some things I would want.

What was so wrong with this thread?

To be fair, that thread specifically asked about Wii U ports, even if later Adrock gave the okay for others. This thread seems to be asking more generally about systems like PS4 and Xbox One. Maybe I'm splitting hairs but the two threads do feel a bit different for me.

[nickmitch]

I also remember when Super Mario 3D World came out, it actually got a lot of positive press and praise. It was the same time the PS4 and XBOne launched and I think it was IGN that said SM3DW was Nintendo's secret weapon to combating the buzz of those released consoles because all they wanted to talk about it and post on twitter was stuff from that game compared to any of the launch titles for the new systems. In the end, it didn't really do anything to change the fortunes of the Wii U and, with a few years having passed since it was shiny and new, it's always felt like the majority of fans weren't really interested in this style of 3D Mario continuing. That's why you still had people hoping for a Galaxy 3 and it felt to me like there was a lot more excitement with Odyssey from when it was first briefly shown in the Switch reveal trailer because it promised less linear levels and more 3D exploration.

Compared to the 3D World reveal that seem to deflate people's enthusiasm who were waiting in anticipation to see the next 3D Mario, I don't think 3D World has ever really overcome that negative general perception even though reviews ended up being positive and a lot of people did like it. Odyssey, on the other hand, always had hype and positive reactions from it's reveal to its release which is part of the reason why it was able to move Switch systems on release compared to 3D World. If Nintendo had done a follow-up to 3D World on Switch, I don't think you see the same reaction or sales that Odyssey got and, in that regard, I agree with what Luigi Dude is saying. The majority of gamers didn't really care about 3D Mario multiplayer so that wasn't much of a draw in the end. Mario 64 and Galaxy are single player focused and that's what the fans want more. Even Sunshine seems to have more fans that the 3D Land/World style so it made the most sense for the series to return in that direction.

I don't remember the general perception of the reveal as much, but  do remember the RFN episode when 3D World came out.  No one on the show had bought it, and the crew talked about why they weren't so excited for it for a bit.

[Khushrenada]

Oh man. That was a classic E3 with so many people decrying Nintendo's lack of originality and how they were never buying another Nintendo console at launch. Oblivion talked about how he was going to jump ship to another console maker and soon did decide to take his leave from this site. A lot of people were in arms at the end of that E3 with only Xenoblade Chornicles X the one shining light that everyone seemed to think looked exciting and was the best part of the E3 Direct. How can you not remember? Such classic times. (I wonder how many people did end up getting a Switch in the launch window in the end after swearing they had learned their lesson from the Wii U?)

[Soren]

The only thing I remember from that era was the RFN after its 2nd holiday sales period when 3D World sold ok but failed to kickstart the system and it became apparent that Wii U could not be saved. The somber debate was depressing.


I think it's generally agreed that any game that sold well after that was basically giving Wii U a small uptick in sales but pretty much playing to the already established base. Looking at sales numbers on the wiki article it looks like Smash Bros and Mario Maker were the games responsible for giving Wii U it's biggest sales boosts after the initial launch.

[lolmonade]

Oh man. That was a classic E3 with so many people decrying Nintendo's lack of originality and how they were never buying another Nintendo console at launch. Oblivion talked about how he was going to jump ship to another console maker and soon did decide to take his leave from this site. A lot of people were in arms at the end of that E3 with only Xenoblade Chornicles X the one shining light that everyone seemed to think looked exciting and was the best part of the E3 Direct. How can you not remember? Such classic times. (I wonder how many people did end up getting a Switch in the launch window in the end after swearing they had learned their lesson from the Wii U?)

Guilty as charged. 


That said, the circumstances were different for me in that at Wii U's launch, I was just excited to get the new Nintendo console.  For Switch, there were at least 3-4 games I knew I wanted, and figured that i'd get my money's worth through the life of the console.  Really, the biggest part besides that was that my gaming time is pretty limited nowadays and the Nintendo droughts I expected with the Switch would be easily offset by me having a PS4 and competent computer.