Post by: norebonomis on November 02, 2004, 12:03:06 PM
to you i say
p huk yew
Post by: Ian Sane on November 02, 2004, 12:10:44 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 02, 2004, 12:57:41 PM
Post by: Pale on November 02, 2004, 12:59:44 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 02, 2004, 01:18:50 PM
Whatever you write on screen, it'll 'pre-teen' it right before your eyes. 'That was hilarious' will become 'LOLOLOOOLOLOOOOL', 'Hi, how are you?' will transform into 'HAYSUP?????LOLOLOLO'. It'll be the best thing ever.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on November 02, 2004, 01:39:18 PM
Post by: VideoGamerJ on November 02, 2004, 04:23:20 PM
As for LOZ, getting updates are quite unpredictable. You never know, maybe the release date will be confirmed in an interview with Shigeru Miyamoto in Playboy ^_^
Post by: Renny on November 02, 2004, 04:33:22 PM
Post by: Nephilim on November 03, 2004, 02:33:16 AM
that link will not use a ocarina but a bongo on the new game
meaning u have to play mini konga type games to go back in time, and when u go back in time, you need to sing on the microphone to j-pop hamtaro/hello kitty tracks
I was gonna email nintendo, but they would deny this and that means its true!
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on November 03, 2004, 04:31:04 AM
As to Zelda for GCN, that game looks so awesome it makes up for any bad decision Nintendo ever made, or atleast I hope. I hope this will be another game to score 40/40 Famitsu reviews and a full 10 on IGN.
Post by: CHEN on November 03, 2004, 12:20:37 PM
Post by: Savior on November 03, 2004, 12:40:41 PM
This game will save Nintendo before the Start of the Revolution
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2004, 12:59:41 PM
Aside from Ocarina of Time same here. The first time I played A Link to the Past it was a used copy with no manual and I didn't know anything about the game except that is was supposed to be great. As a result I initially assumed that after getting the Master Sword and fighting Agahnim that the game would be over. Keep in the mind at the time I had only played action related titles so the length didn't seem too short to me. Imagine my surprise when I found out the game was not even half over and that there was a whole parallel world to see. Now that was exceptional since that was mentioned in the manual so it wouldn't have been a huge spoiler to know that ahead of time but it remains one of my most memorable game moments. Because of this I'm of the idea that manuals should be like two pages long and describe only the bare bone essentials.
So if I can I would love to remain in the dark regarding this new Zelda. All I would look at would be the review score just to make sure it doens't get something really bad like 4/10 and I wouldn't read the manual at all before playing. Though deep down I know I can't do that. When new info is released I'm going to HAVE to look at it. It's too hard not too. I can do the "stay in the dark" thing when I'm in my 40s and only have a moderate interest in games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 03, 2004, 01:11:20 PM
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2004, 03:14:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
4/10
lol....Zelda *sigh*
Even if it did get a 4/10 from the chumps at Electronic IGN-PRO Bimonthly, would that stop you from buying the game? I mean, come on. It's Zelda. Think of what she'll look like in a "stunning 3D environments"!
om6 71n6l3 I hope they put tingle in there and make him that tatoo master supreme of Hyrule. I want that snake.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 03, 2004, 03:37:43 PM
Quote
Preorder offers ( Free Zelda Four Swords adventures when you preorder)
Nah, Nintendo have got to get off their lazy arses and convert that game to PAL, first. I'd rather a bonus disc with the CDi games. Not that it'll need pre-order bonuses to sell this time.
"Sir, the MTV forum is full of people saying Wind Waker is uh, 'homosexual' "
"GIVE THEM A BONUS DISC WITH THE N64 GAMES"
"Okay"
*Sits back*
"Sir, they're calling the ports homosexual now"
"I DON'T CARE, I HAVE ICE CREAM"
"Oh I see, can I have some?"
"NO YOU MAY NOT"
*HEADSHOT*
"FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA~"
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2004, 03:51:30 PM
It would make me read the review at least. If it was the expected 8/10 or higher I would just buy it and keep myself in the dark.
Post by: Pale on November 03, 2004, 05:00:27 PM
Post by: Savior on November 03, 2004, 06:07:07 PM
Quote
Not that it'll need pre-order bonuses
True True. But I want every certainty that this game will be an absolute smashing succes... Pre Order Bonuses only help.
Also how bout the GBA Zeldas? Unlockable Links Awakening in the game?
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 03, 2004, 08:48:42 PM
I want to see a return of navi, and i can't wait to shred enemies on horseback!
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 03, 2004, 09:21:19 PM
Quote
Because of this I'm of the idea that manuals should be like two pages long and describe only the bare bone essentials.
Ha, yes. I never look at manuals ever. The only times I have were when I was, say, riding home in a car and couldn't play it yet. I looked at the back of the package and in the manual, fueling myself for the game. Good memories, yes.
Metroid Prime: picked it up on the way to Thanksgiving last year, a yearly trip to Florida. I fawned over it for probably an hour, wanting to play it so badly. Got there eventually, and I beat most of the game that week (on an actually bright television, my one back at home is really dark. Thank goodness I've got a new one at college for Echoes), though I still had plenty of time to read, hang out with my family, do beach stuff, etc. Awesome week. Incredible.
Come to think of it, that was probably two years ago. I got the game shortly after release. My Nintendo timeline is really screwed up compared to the timeline of the rest of my life
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 03, 2004, 11:32:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShaolinKilla
I want to see a return of navi
I'm fine with that as long as Link has a special Navi Remote Control.
"Hey hey hello hey hey hello hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey"
"GOD, WHAT IS IT?"
"Hey, do these wings make my blue glowing marble sized body look big?"
"Oh for fu-
*MUTE*
Post by: Savior on November 04, 2004, 05:07:00 AM
Soundtracks, Making Of DVDS... Interviews with Miyamoto, Emulated versions of the three GB Zeldas...
Nobody wants one ?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 04, 2004, 06:34:08 AM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 04, 2004, 06:50:12 AM
Post by: CHEN on November 04, 2004, 07:11:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I'd rather have a special-edition version of Wind Waker with the two removed dungeons, but I don't even care that much for a pre-order bonus...
I thought the primary ideas of those two dungeons were going to be carried over to this one.
Post by: Savior on November 04, 2004, 09:48:08 AM
Im taking a page out of Halo2, you can buy Halo 2, or Halo 2 Limited Edition, which costs more but has cool additional content.
Id like to see Nintendo do the same... Provide two versions a 49.99 version and a 54.99 version that would have additional content like Making Of Videos, Interviews, a Sountrack that kind of stuff.. I think it would be cool.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 04, 2004, 10:03:49 AM
That's a great idea. Not because I'm insane and would rather pay extra money instead of getting something for free like with Wind Waker but because it would be a good way to create hype. Special editions create this feeling of superiour quality. If something has a special edition then it MUST be great because no one makes special editions of crappy stuff, right? Okay that's becoming less the case with DVDs where EVERYTHING gets a "special edition" but the concept is relatively new for games. Plus if you have a limited edition for a high profile game that only applies to pre-orders then I think we all know who will shill the hell out of it. That's right! EB would have flyers all over the place and would have their employees asking everyone if they've pre-ordered Zelda yet. "Enjoy your new PS2 sir WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRE-ORDER ZELDA?!!!"
Post by: kennyb27 on November 04, 2004, 10:44:20 AM
QuoteHell, I still do that! (I just can't look at it too much, because I'm usually I'm driving.)
Ha, yes. I never look at manuals ever. The only times I have were when I was, say, riding home in a car and couldn't play it yet. I looked at the back of the package and in the manual, fueling myself for the game. Good memories, yes.
QuoteWouldn't that be great to hear....
That's right! EB would have flyers all over the place and would have their employees asking everyone if they've pre-ordered Zelda yet. "Enjoy your new PS2 sir WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRE-ORDER ZELDA?!!!"
Post by: Mario on November 04, 2004, 02:17:21 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 04, 2004, 02:29:06 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 04, 2004, 02:30:40 PM
Quote
Hell, I still do that! (I just can't look at it too much, because I'm usually I'm driving.)
Hella yes. Only done that once, with Four Swords. Listening to Modest Mouse (never listen to Float On while driving) and looking at the back of the game. My friend riding with me was scared out of his wits.
Post by: kennyb27 on November 05, 2004, 07:45:18 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on November 06, 2004, 08:58:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CHENQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I'd rather have a special-edition version of Wind Waker with the two removed dungeons, but I don't even care that much for a pre-order bonus...
I thought the primary ideas of those two dungeons were going to be carried over to this one.
Yeah but they also said the next Zelda would be cel shaded too. Who knows what's BS and what's not when it comes to Nintendo? No disrespect intended, it's just that sometimes trying to figure out a Nintendo reps quote is like reading ancient sandscrit.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 06, 2004, 10:24:49 PM
No, actually. They said it would use the WW engine, and it did.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on November 07, 2004, 02:39:35 AM
Im really surprised that Nintendo themselves would develop such a beautiful game as the new zelda.
Post by: KDR_11k on November 07, 2004, 03:41:10 AM
Post by: Gamefreak on November 07, 2004, 04:54:57 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 07, 2004, 05:39:01 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 07, 2004, 06:58:10 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on November 07, 2004, 11:37:42 AM
and I hope they have some really revolutionary idea
Post by: Gamefreak on November 07, 2004, 02:27:21 PM
The new Link's model and texturing was new at E3 but obviously they hadn't yet totally changed the skeleton and animation system for Link because the swordfighting and some other movements were cartoony and just not fluid and realistic...
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 07, 2004, 02:32:42 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 07, 2004, 04:07:39 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 07, 2004, 08:03:50 PM
Post by: norebonomis on November 08, 2004, 02:46:07 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 08, 2004, 07:50:00 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on November 09, 2004, 12:31:18 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on November 09, 2004, 09:53:17 PM
Post by: Mario on November 23, 2004, 04:54:46 PM
Those new pics are awesome! Especially the closeup of the horse, it's amazing looking in the distance. CAN'T WAIT!
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 23, 2004, 05:00:05 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 23, 2004, 05:09:25 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 23, 2004, 05:11:27 PM
I can't wait for E3! It's annoying because I don't really want to know too much about this game beforehand so I'm suprised when I play it YET I can't resist new info.
Post by: Magus19 on November 23, 2004, 08:02:38 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 23, 2004, 08:09:08 PM
Post by: Artimus on November 23, 2004, 08:16:52 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 23, 2004, 08:30:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Magus19
I hope that the monster in the third shot will be redone becase he looks like he was made for the N64, but everything else is just amazing.
Don't be so quick.
He's the exact same axe-wielding Moblin-type character from the same E3 trailer everyone went ga-ga over in May. You're just getting a closer look at the shiny protective garb covering his shoulders.
General rule, anything that's NOT Link has lower-rez textures and is subject to the depth-of-field blur depending on Link's relative distance from the camera.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 23, 2004, 10:18:23 PM
Post by: norebonomis on November 24, 2004, 12:26:26 PM
oh yeah and i started this post, ::bows::
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 24, 2004, 03:08:29 PM
I see a loooot of comedic opportunity in this. Keep at it.
Post by: Mario on November 24, 2004, 05:03:42 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on November 24, 2004, 05:13:54 PM
Those 3 pics were pulled from the E3 2 minute trailer by NOA to put in their batch of pre-Thanksgiving screens. They do not indicate the progress of the game at all. Which is good since by now hopefully EAD has cleaned up the non-Link textures and upped the polycount on non-Link things.
Anyway I doubt NOA has access to anything more recent than the E3 build.
Post by: Mario on November 24, 2004, 05:22:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 24, 2004, 05:25:13 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on November 24, 2004, 06:26:12 PM
The game should be cel-shaded, but not like WW. Remember the artwork from MM and OOT of time? THAT'S what this game should look like.
<----------See my avatar? Of course it's a tiny image and you can't make out anything, but if you remember the OoT artwork from the manuals and such you'll know what I'm talking about.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 24, 2004, 06:47:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gamefreak
Don't get so excited guys.
Those 3 pics were pulled from the E3 2 minute trailer by NOA to put in their batch of pre-Thanksgiving screens. They do not indicate the progress of the game at all. Which is good since by now hopefully EAD has cleaned up the non-Link textures and upped the polycount on non-Link things.
Anyway I doubt NOA has access to anything more recent than the E3 build.
They weren't "pulled" from any pre-made video. In fact, none of the official (597x448 rez) screens are from a "trailer." They're all direct dev-kit frame-caps from the old E3 build which the "trailers" were 'made from.' Nintendo is just teasing/being cruel.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 24, 2004, 07:30:26 PM
If by greatest thing ever you mean "worst sabotage of consumer good will ever" then yes. Nintendo CAN'T go back to cel shaded now. They pissed off a lot of people when they revealed Wind Waker because the Spaceworld footage gave the impression that that was what Zelda would look like. Doing a switcheroo again would be even worse since this time they have actually announced the creation of a more realistic Zelda so they don't have a technicality to fall back on like last time. They announced realistic Zelda. If they change it now then they have lied. If they change it then they can just say good bye to all the non-Cube owners paying attention to this game and good bye to a fair chunk of Nintendo fans who don't like being lied to. Changing the game to cel-shaded would be a Sega level bonehead. It's the sort of thing that would drive away fans in droves.
Plus it's rather selfish to ask for another cel-shaded Zelda on the Cube. Currently the Cube is going to have a cel-shaded Zelda and a more realistic one. There's something to please everyone.
Post by: Mario on November 24, 2004, 09:20:12 PM
I think the best thing about Wind Waker was the cel shading, but (in my opinion) it was really lacking as a Zelda game, I had high hopes the sequel would be cel shaded AND a really good Zelda game. The ending of Wind Waker and the comments Nintendo were making about the next Zelda using the same engine meant I was expecting another cel shaded Zelda adventure on GC. This new style is a bit disappointing to me, but I must admit I am really fond of the new Link design, and I haven't really seen enough of the game to say they made the wrong choice.
Post by: Caillan on November 24, 2004, 09:49:57 PM
On a side note, does anyone else think they should cut down the number of Zelda games being released? I mean, this generation we've had the Oracle series, WW, Four Swords and we're getting Minish Cap and this new one.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 24, 2004, 09:56:24 PM
Quote
On a side note, does anyone else think they should cut down the number of Zelda games being released?
Die.
Post by: Deguello on November 25, 2004, 01:58:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caillan
On a side note, does anyone else think they should cut down the number of Zelda games being released?
You know there are twelve Final Fantasies. Twelve, Thirteen when FFXII comes out. And for the life of me I swear they do not change from game to game. Except XI, which is a cruddy MMORPG.
... where's the outrage, people?
Post by: KDR_11k on November 25, 2004, 06:05:40 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 25, 2004, 06:32:16 AM
Yeah I think so. Same with Metroid. Now all of those Zelda games rule so it's not a bad thing... yet. But I think if they keep releasing new Zelda games too frequently the quality will eventually slip. Everything reaches a point where the creators can't keep the quality up and by having more frequent releases that point is going to arrive quicker.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 25, 2004, 08:28:53 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 25, 2004, 09:32:48 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 25, 2004, 09:36:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"On a side note, does anyone else think they should cut down the number of Zelda games being released? I mean, this generation we've had the Oracle series, WW, Four Swords and we're getting Minish Cap and this new one."
Yeah I think so. Same with Metroid. Now all of those Zelda games rule so it's not a bad thing... yet. But I think if they keep releasing new Zelda games too frequently the quality will eventually slip. Everything reaches a point where the creators can't keep the quality up and by having more frequent releases that point is going to arrive quicker.
You mean like Futurama? When the quality "slipped" because one freaking person said it did!??! YEAH!??! WELL I THINK SESAME STREET SLIPPED IN QUALITY A LONG TIME AGO, BUT THEY DIDN'T STICK THAT ON ADULT SWIM, NOW DID THEY!??! THE QUALITY NEVER SLIPS! IT'S ALWAYS THE GAMER OR VIEWER THAT SLIPS, OKAY!??! OKAAAAY!??!
*clears throat*
Very sorry you had to read that.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 25, 2004, 11:49:20 AM
But yes, the slip can also be from the viewer's perspective. In this case, I think it's wise to follow that old saying, "Leave them wanting more". I don't really want more of a lot of Nintendo's franchises, because they're already making more than I can handle. Mario Party is a great example. I'm interested in Mario Party 6 because of the new mic games, but there's a voice in the back of my head saying, "There will be another one next year, spend your money on something else." Taken all on it's own, Mario Party 6 will be a great game, I don't think anyone who loves multiplayer games should be without a Mario Party game. But added to the 5 other games in the series, it's just not that special.
Edit: as for the new screenshots, they're not perfect, but they're still sweet. I don't think we'll have time to worry about the quality of textures on that monster as he kicks our skinny butts.
Post by: Caillan on November 25, 2004, 01:16:31 PM
Quote
You know there are twelve Final Fantasies. Twelve, Thirteen when FFXII comes out. And for the life of me I swear they do not change from game to game. Except XI, which is a cruddy MMORPG.
I stopped caring about Final Fantasy after VI.
Maybe I'm just influenced too much by my memory of the massive hype that was associated with OoT. I'm pretty sure we all feel nostalgia while playing old games, but does anyone else here get a twinge while waiting for one?
Post by: mjbd on November 25, 2004, 04:23:05 PM
Post by: Morien on November 25, 2004, 09:35:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caillan
On a side note, does anyone else think they should cut down the number of Zelda games being released?
NOO!
I missed out on the Oracle series and it may just be me, but when I think of the Zelda games I never think of Four Swords.
2 per console is good, but they need to be long. Wind Waker was a great game, but it ended too soon IMO. It would take a lot longer for me to get 100% but I've never been a game completionist, I just finish it.
What would be really good is a world much much larger than in Ocarina of Time, so I could play it for weeks and still not completley cover the map. (Warp portals or similar would be needed ofcourse).
I hope they do up the graphics a bit from those pics tho (they still need to add the life meter, etc so they may still do some upgrading). The graphics looked a bit jaggered and the big green guy looks rather..... well I hope they up the graphics a bit
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 26, 2004, 10:32:44 AM
Zelda can't.
Mario can't.
Nintendo can't.
Groening can't.
They can just make some mistakes is all. :-D
Post by: Ian Sane on November 26, 2004, 11:28:26 AM
Sure. And I just imagined the incredibly unwatchable tripe that the Simpsons has been since like 1997 or so. But then maybe I did since no one but me seems to have noticed.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 26, 2004, 12:00:02 PM
I actually think some of the newer episodes are better...maybe not as funny, but I've had my share of laughs with them, and they actually have a storyline, other than some of the older episodes.
Post by: Gamefreak on November 26, 2004, 04:30:29 PM
I'd say Family Guy's got a good 2 to 3 years before the quality dies.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on November 26, 2004, 07:54:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caillan
I hope they do up the graphics a bit from those pics tho (they still need to add the life meter, etc so they may still do some upgrading). The graphics looked a bit jaggered and the big green guy looks rather..... well I hope they up the graphics a bit
Those are still shots. Of course they'll look slightly jagged. As for the 'big green guy', he'll look much better in motion.
Just watch the E3 trailer and you'll see how good the graphics are already.
Post by: Golden Maven on November 26, 2004, 08:05:20 PM
Anyway, while I am looking forward to this new Zelda, I don't expect anything amazing. I expect yet another great Zelda title, yes, but nothing ground-breaking, since it will simply use an updated version of OoT's engine instead of a brand new one. At best, maybe it will get more people interested in Nintendo again with these "cool graphics" instead of the cel-shading. But don't expect a OoT-type bang.
Same as WW, really. Great game, I love it, but it just didn't have the same impact on me as OoT did. OoT brought something new to the table by successfully taking Zelda to 3D and had a brand new engine and style of play we never tried before. WW uses the same engine with a few tweaks, so it's just another 3D Zelda game with another story and art style. The game is great, just not ground-breaking like OoT. It didn't do anything special.
Come to think of it, I don't see what innovation the Gamecube brought for Nintendo's existing franchises, unlike the N64 which certainly did with the transistion from 2D to 3D.
I think Nintendo should have saved this new Zelda for the Revolution and get innovative by introducing something new. I'd like to see them build a new engine from scratch instead of using an updated version of OoT's. After reading their comments about the Revolution though, I do expect something big from Nintendo once it comes out.
Post by: Mario on November 26, 2004, 11:54:37 PM
There will be a Zelda game on Revolution, isn't that obvious? Let's just look forward to the upcoming one on GameCube, since you know, we all have GC's and Revolution doesn't even exist yet.
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on November 27, 2004, 04:33:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Golden Maven
Same as WW, really. Great game, I love it, but it just didn't have the same impact on me as OoT did. OoT brought something new to the table by successfully taking Zelda to 3D and had a brand new engine and style of play we never tried before. WW uses the same engine with a few tweaks, so it's just another 3D Zelda game with another story and art style. The game is great, just not ground-breaking like OoT. It didn't do anything special.
Come to think of it, I don't see what innovation the Gamecube brought for Nintendo's existing franchises, unlike the N64 which certainly did with the transistion from 2D to 3D.
I think Nintendo should have saved this new Zelda for the Revolution and get innovative by introducing something new. I'd like to see them build a new engine from scratch instead of using an updated version of OoT's. After reading their comments about the Revolution though, I do expect something big from Nintendo once it comes out.
Why are you talking like this game is already out and you've beaten it?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 27, 2004, 04:36:54 AM
Come to think of it, I don't see what innovation the Gamecube brought for Nintendo's existing franchises
Then I'm sure glad you don't work for Ninty...
Post by: Deguello on November 27, 2004, 07:37:43 AM
Quote
I'd say Family Guy's got a good 2 to 3 years before the quality dies.
It would be rather difficult to dip in quality when it never had any to begin with. </derail>
I think the only places left to innovate are control and concept. Graphics can only get slightly better.
Post by: Gamefreak on November 27, 2004, 11:12:16 AM
Post by: Golden Maven on November 27, 2004, 12:31:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Uh, it's not an updated version of OoTs engine, if it's an updated version of anything it's updated from Wind Waker...
There will be a Zelda game on Revolution, isn't that obvious? Let's just look forward to the upcoming one on GameCube, since you know, we all have GC's and Revolution doesn't even exist yet.
It all comes back to OoT...
Anyway, I know there will be a Zelda on the Revolution. My point was, I would have liked to have one as a launch title. I'm not saying anything bad about this next Zelda anyway, I'm sure it will be great, but I don't expect it to be OoT great. That's all I'm saying.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 27, 2004, 02:03:39 PM
Then how? I think mostly everyone is thinking a virtual reality concept now...would that work for Zelda? That'd be kinda cool, actually...hmmm...
Post by: Golden Maven on November 27, 2004, 03:42:48 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on November 27, 2004, 04:13:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Golden Maven
Come to think of it, I don't see what innovation the Gamecube brought for Nintendo's existing franchises, unlike the N64 which certainly did with the transistion from 2D to 3D.
Metroid?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 28, 2004, 01:35:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: blackfootstepsQuote
Originally posted by: Golden Maven
Come to think of it, I don't see what innovation the Gamecube brought for Nintendo's existing franchises, unlike the N64 which certainly did with the transistion from 2D to 3D.
Metroid?
And GC/GBA connectivity, though everyone bitched about it...Sounds like a lose-lose scenario to me...
Post by: odifiend on November 28, 2004, 02:31:51 AM
EDIT: Scratch that, the SA2 system was in place before GBA even came out and outdone by the first round of Pokemon Stadium games, and FF:CC was just a crappy bastardization of Four Sword for GBA and PSO. I forgot about Four Swords Adventures, but it is essentially Four Swords, since you still need for GBAs but the game is a gamecube game. I fail to see the innovation.
Post by: Mario on November 28, 2004, 03:17:30 AM
Anyway, Zelda rocks, I hope this new one isn't too easy like the 3D ones have been lately, I just went back and played the original Legend of Zelda on NES and damn it's hard, but I love it!
Post by: Deguello on November 28, 2004, 03:23:22 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on November 28, 2004, 05:57:05 PM
Post by: odifiend on November 28, 2004, 06:28:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
I like GBA/GC Connecitivity with Mario Golf, so die.
Unlocking trainede characters? If so, it has been done by its predecessor, but better because it didn't involve batteries.
Can not wait for this Zelda game! Any Zelda game gets me excited
. Can't wait for that thrust combo seen in the teaser. I may have missed it if it was mentioned already, but I wonder if Nintendo will 'sell out' and make this Teen or even Mature a la PoP:WW? Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 29, 2004, 02:31:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
this game is already the best game of all time. i have a feeling it will be delayed though.
its cumin owt 2marow dident yoo hurr
Looking at our mini-trailer and screenshots, it doesn't look like much water is involved in this game...but if it's using the Wind Waker engine...all I'm saying is I don't want my horse riding like a boat :-P
Post by: MaleficentOgre on November 29, 2004, 06:02:48 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 29, 2004, 06:48:24 AM
If they do I will break something. Probably something of yours. I have no problem with them changing things up a bit but the new PoP is SO blatant in it's selling out. Making Zelda 'T' wouldn't be so bad. SSBM was rated 'T'. But anything even remotely like Warrior Within would be unforgivable.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 29, 2004, 08:56:27 AM
But again, I think that was probably some big talk from an NOA employee. It's Nintendo! Miyamoto told us we'd see a more mature Mario and basically nothing changed - if anything the recent Mario spin-offs are cuter than ever. This will still be a Zelda game, it will probably still be relatively innocent, and it will still be awesome!
Post by: Gamefreak on November 29, 2004, 09:09:17 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 29, 2004, 09:34:56 PM
Post by: odifiend on November 30, 2004, 01:32:28 AM
LOL. Marketing? For Melee? If only Reggie was around...
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 30, 2004, 02:51:12 AM
Post by: odifiend on November 30, 2004, 03:08:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
Yeah...no doubts in my mind, we're looking at a T for this. But I kind of want it to be E. Not that I don't like gore or teen sex (rofl), but doesn't that kick out all the little Wind Waker fans? Then again it'll kind of bring in an older audience...
Right, because everyone obeys ESRB...
Plus those WW fans have had 2 years to get older
.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 30, 2004, 05:25:23 AM
"Oi, LOOK! A RAD GAME!"
"What's its rating?"
"E, it MUST SUCK THEN ARG"
Post by: SgtShiversBen on November 30, 2004, 06:30:35 AM
The thing that saddens me though is at my local GameStop there's this one guy who does enforce the ratings. He tells the parents that there is violence, sex, mild language, what have you, and the parents don't care. One kid was like "THAT'S WHY I LIKE IT!" Ugh, sickens me (although I was the same way some 10 years ago). Oh well, I don't know why I'm ranting. If this game doesn't sell, then that means I don't have to reserve it....unless there's another bonus disc! LE GASP!! BONUS DISC!!
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 30, 2004, 03:54:22 PM
Post by: Golden Maven on November 30, 2004, 06:10:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Oh please...Even the most casual gamers I know don't look at the ESRB rating to determine whether a game is good or not... =P
You'd be surprised...
Post by: couchmonkey on December 01, 2004, 06:43:23 AM
However, there's not really any way around it. I think Nintendo would have a lot of trouble getting an "E" rating on any realistic Zelda game because no matter how much they sanitize it, it will still have realistic sword fighting and archery. I think the only way to get an E rating is to stay with a more cartoony look (although it wouldn't have to be quite as cartoony as The Wind Waker).
Ultimately, I think it's better for Nintendo to accept the T rating and go through with the realistic game, because my impression is that there's a lot of interest in this game...much more than Wind Waker. Which is kind of disappointing, but I'd rather be annoyed that people are too cool to play the Wind Waker than watching them pass up yet another Zelda game.
Post by: norebonomis on December 01, 2004, 11:12:24 AM
and erm, a side note... if the revolution is supposed to be a..... revolution without "sitting in front of the TV with a controller" as previously mentioned on this thread. this has led me to also think about the posiblitly of virtual reality. I've played Virtual Reality in some fancy arcades and they have all pretty much sucked. it was kind of like a pipe dream of nerds back in the tron days. the motion sensing was very slow, when you turned your head the world around you would kind of drag to where it was supposed to be.
But with the revolution comming in what? '06? couldn't this really be the time for VR to become norm, (please don't even bring up virtualboy, that is just sad) i found this little interesting article over at engadget basically from what i understand is this company went from your 'basic' 3D LCD that requires you view from a certain angle or 'sweet-spot' then they perfected it, making in 3D from any angle. and put it on a cell phone. Now they have a goggle-type heads up display that is 3D for the phone. i don't really get it. but if this is all happening in japan, and nintendo is japanese...... dammit i want a true 3D zelda.
i think from a development standpoint it would be as easy as programming for another camera angle, then send one image to each eye. duh. i guess what it really comes down too is how much of a dork you want to look like wearing 3D VR goggles on your face. maybe we should just wait for brain or retina implants, so as to save us having to look like geeks. (not that i mind i'm just being observant of humanity's need for practicality and attractivness)
sorry to have ranted. notice how i made paragraphs to save you getting a headache? *whitespace*
:-P
Post by: Golden Maven on December 01, 2004, 11:19:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: norebonomis
but console zelda's could use a little more sex. maybe violence too.
Hum, no. Just no. This upcoming Zelda will already be more violent since the graphics will be more realitic, but sex in a Zelda game? I hope you're joking. I don't see how any game could use " a little more sex". This is the kind of crap that ruins video games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 01, 2004, 11:19:55 AM
"console zelda's could use a little more sex. maybe violence too."
I seriously hate you with a passion...I MEAN WTF...W...T...F...
Post by: norebonomis on December 01, 2004, 11:36:37 AM
please don't hate me. i'm a nice person.
when i say could use a little more sex. i don't mean like, revealing clothes and passionate lovemaking, i mean... like sex as an adjective. more flavor to appeal to a larger audience. BELIEVE ME, I LOVE THE LEGEND OF ZELDA and EVERYTHING ABOUT IT.
Post by: Berto2K on December 01, 2004, 12:26:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: norebonomis
i don't care if zelda '05 was made so mature that it got an M rating. but if zelda was a bit more mature i think that could definetly help nintendo's "young" image.
Umm, no. That would tarnish the series more than anything. It would leave Nintendo's hands tied from creativity as well. Everyone and their mother (cept bill
) would only accept something like it for the next game.Quote
Originally posted by: norebonomis
i think from a development standpoint it would be as easy as programming for another camera angle, then send one image to each eye. duh. i guess what it really comes down too is how much of a dork you want to look like wearing 3D VR goggles on your face.
Then you haven't done much programming. Besides, displaying the one camera angle takes up a lot of processing power when taking in lighting effects especially. Multiply that by 2 and you are looking at needing at least one other processor.
Post by: norebonomis on December 01, 2004, 12:27:56 PM
Post by: mjbd on December 01, 2004, 12:35:33 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 01, 2004, 02:19:42 PM
What about the rest of you?
T-RATING BANZAI
Post by: nolimit19 on December 02, 2004, 11:53:32 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 02, 2004, 06:36:30 PM
Post by: RABicle on December 07, 2004, 05:57:06 AM
Now I'm going to earn some fist here and jump into the line of fire. I support norebonomis' idea for more sex in Zelda. And I know what he means by it to. Zelda would still feel mostly the same and wouldn't be harmed if it had the same kind of sex content that, say Tales of Symphonia has. Sorry I keep using this example, it's just my game of choice at the moment, and by using it Bill can no longer argue
. You know, a bit of inuendo, or suggestive themese from a particuarly promiscous zora, gerudo or farm girl wouldn't send the series too awry. It's not like the Great Faeries wern't treated as sex symbols in previous Zelda (OOT, MM) games. I feel as though the odd comment or reference would add maturity to the game without destroying children's lives. Those old enough to understand it might appreciate it and those who are young or sheltered wont get it and move on (unlike swearing or violence.)What else was I going to say here?
Oh yeah I wanted to rant about Warrior Within, or as I like to call it, Weakness Within, but that's for another topic.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 07, 2004, 07:21:05 AM
Oh yes I can! Tales is Tales and Zelda is Zelda...
And if it's innuendo that you are really "meaning" than there isn't even a need to ask for it...Innuendo has been cleverly placed in Zelda games since Link's Awakening... ^_^
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2004, 07:23:22 AM
You got Marin! Is this your big chance?!
Favourite part of the game and with Link's Awakening that's saying something.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 07, 2004, 07:23:48 AM
Poor Rabicle, thought that by using ToS as a shield, bill couldn't counter that comment
Post by: StRaNgE on December 07, 2004, 09:31:52 AM
if only some would take interest in what their kids were into.
i play through so many games with my son and if it is a bit violent or questionable then i ONLY let him play it when were in the same room or together. that away i can keep him remembering that it is a game and in real life that stuff hurts.
and when i can't be with him while he plays then he's got mario sunshine and many other similar games that i have played through myself as well and feel are more then ok for him to play.
wish all parents would just put more time and interest into their kids instead of themselves.
Post by: Smashman on December 07, 2004, 11:22:13 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 07, 2004, 11:35:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
The new GCN Zelda game of 2005 will make up for the major disappointment of WW, without a doubt because it is teh realisitic!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 07, 2004, 12:46:17 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 07, 2004, 01:44:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
The new GCN Zelda game of 2005 will make up for the major disappointment of WW, without a doubt.
...have you even played Wind Waker!?
Post by: Gamefreak on December 08, 2004, 05:17:55 AM
Not Mortal Kombat or anything, but when you start chopping at something, you'd think there would be some structural damage done to whatever you are slicing up, including blood if applicable.
In Wind Waker you could smash Stalfos apart and break darknut armor and such. now in the realistic Zelda I think it would be appropriate if there was a reasonable amound of blood.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 08, 2004, 06:09:22 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 08, 2004, 07:57:44 AM
Quote
The new GCN Zelda game of 2005 will make up for the major disappointment of WW, without a doubt.
Die. Die a horrible prolonged death.
Post by: StRaNgE on December 08, 2004, 09:49:31 AM
otherwise they should once again vanish into big poofs of smoke.
either way works but a dead limp lifeless body laying on the floor after i hacked him up with no blood makes less sense then one that vanished into a big purple cloud of smoke.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2004, 10:03:58 AM
I don't really like puffs of smoke though either. A lot of games just have the enemies fall down as if they have died and then fade away. That works for me. It's not graphic and at the same time it doesn't look like a really blatant attempt to hide violence. Look at Goldeneye. The enemies react realistically to shots in that if you shoot their arm they grab it and if you get them in the face their whole head snaps back. But you can't knock enemies' limbs off and blood doesn't spray everywhere. It's not 100% realistic but it looks realistic enough to not seperate you from the experience and the game isn't a gorefest.
Post by: vudu on December 08, 2004, 10:27:02 AM
QuoteIt's better to burn out than to fade away. My My Hey Hey.
I don't really like puffs of smoke though either. A lot of games just have the enemies fall down as if they have died and then fade away.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 08, 2004, 10:32:35 AM
What? Fading enemies look really stupid, and I'd rather they stick with the "smoke death"...Or perhaps a "crumble to dust" type of effect...
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2004, 11:16:55 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on December 08, 2004, 11:52:44 AM
It probably wouldn't work with the style Nintendo is going for, but I'd like to see Zelda that goes all old-school (lame!) by recreating effects from the NES game. Have the enemies sort of explode in a flashy mess of pixels - no! VOXELS! Yeah, that would be rad, just like the old cartoon series. Of course, it might not be as cool as I remember.
But seriously, I think it would be neat to fashion a modern 3D game with 80s-style effects.
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 08, 2004, 12:39:05 PM
You have these parasitic insects that burrow up from the ground, cover the fallen enemies and decompose them.
That, or just leave the bodies lying around till you leave the area.
Post by: Morien on December 08, 2004, 09:29:21 PM
And regarding blood. There can be blood, just not blood baths. Violence, but not gore. If someone gets smacked with the sharp bit of a sword then i'd expect there to be some kind of a mark.
Just me i suppose. With these graphics and it's TA though I wouldn't think they'd disappear in a big cloud of smoke or come out of a sword fight without a mark. On a similar note, there should be more wuss enemies. Especially as Link grows stronger and more fierce. Say a pack of those little annoying sounding things (d-da D-DA) from WW and one finally challenges Link and gets smacked back, then the rest run away (and carry their fallen friend?). Either way.
Post by: vudu on December 09, 2004, 08:24:42 AM
I'm told the reason this didn't happen is because it would have taxed the Xbox's resourses too much, and--while possible--wouldn't have been worth it because too much would have to be sacrificed from other aspects of the game.
I can see the same thing being true for decaying corpses.
Post by: Morien on December 09, 2004, 05:36:51 PM
Oh well. A man can dream....
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 09, 2004, 07:36:28 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 16, 2004, 03:30:52 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 16, 2004, 04:01:50 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 16, 2004, 04:14:15 PM
Post by: vudu on December 17, 2004, 11:10:05 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 17, 2004, 11:31:44 AM
I'm speculating he can block all kinds of things with a shield.
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 17, 2004, 12:28:03 PM
I'm sure that's a blow to plenty of people all over the world.
Post by: meldavid on December 18, 2004, 02:20:08 PM
Or how about Link's sword having a finishing move where he thrusts it into an enemy, then the enemy turns to stone. Link can then smash the statue with his hammer or kick it with his magic boots and it crumbles. Otherwise he can probably jump onto it to reach a high ledge.
Post by: odifiend on December 19, 2004, 06:19:42 AM
Ara? well, if you really wanted to go the stone route, I'm a sick bastard and I'd collect them instead of breaking them.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 20, 2004, 05:41:10 PM
STONED GET!!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 20, 2004, 07:21:49 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on December 20, 2004, 07:24:38 PM
I think the next Zelda is going to be pretty good...
Post by: Mario on December 20, 2004, 07:52:52 PM
I can't wait to talk to the people in this game, I haven't seen any in the media so far, but it's a Zelda game so i'm guessing there will be lots of NPC interaction. I think that might be why Majora's Mask is better than Ocarina of Time, I loved all the characters in MM and i enjoyed talking to them and seeing what they had to say at certain times of day and after I had done certain things to see what they thought about something that happened. I cared about them!
Or maybe there will be no friendly NPC's? Besides Link, there are only enemies seen in the media so far, so maybe Link is the last person alive and it's Link vs the world of bad guys? After fighting bad guy after bad guy, Link gets tired and sits by the lake and questions his existance and expresses his angry thoughts via poetry. Then Link comes across an underwater city of survivers and recruits an army and thus a war between good and evil begins.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 20, 2004, 08:09:06 PM
NEW-OLD SCREENSHOTS that I capped from the E3 trailer.
NEW because Windows98 disk operating system tells me the files were created recently, and OLD because the trailer is &#@$$&%#%#@ old.
Now we can resume with bashing the N64-ish character designs that come from 7-month old video footage.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 21, 2004, 11:22:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I hate you all for making a mockery out of this topic...
What's not to mock? OK, for Bill, back on subject.
TINGLE TEH ROX0RZ.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 21, 2004, 12:28:31 PM
What about pottery?
Will he be able to pickup girls?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 21, 2004, 01:37:11 PM
He can throw them too.
AAHAHAHAHHA i'm funny, i know.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 22, 2004, 06:17:26 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 22, 2004, 01:07:22 PM
Old man in red pajamas: "Goto the eastern hole something."
NPC interaction indeed!
NPCs are also what distract you from the main storyline/adventure. I LOVED FINDING CUCCOS.
Post by: couchmonkey on December 23, 2004, 09:17:35 AM
The main storyline of most Zelda games is pretty simplistic. Interesting side-stories give the game character and allow you to develop the personality you want for the hero. They also let you choose how involved you want to get. I read an interesting roundtable on the future of RPGs on RPGamer one time where someone argued that the current style of storytelling in RPGs is getting stale and he suggested stories that revolve around the people you meet and places you go. I think that's the kind of storytelling videogames are perfect for because they allow you to change the story and experience the story in a different order than any other player. In fact that's why I would argue that stories are worth having in games even if they aren't as well written as books or movies: they give you the opportunity to experience storytelling in a different way.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 23, 2004, 11:37:17 AM
I guess it would've been fun had I not played ocarina, Majora, and Wind Waker first. ^_^
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 23, 2004, 11:58:43 AM
even as of now. I will play the classics on my nes : )
Post by: Mario on December 23, 2004, 01:04:15 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 23, 2004, 03:57:54 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 24, 2004, 08:20:46 AM
Post by: AManatee2 on December 25, 2004, 06:02:36 PM
the sad part is, my friend, i have no freaking idea WHYYYY.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 25, 2004, 06:16:22 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 26, 2004, 04:19:40 AM
Post by: Mario on December 26, 2004, 01:10:01 PM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 27, 2004, 11:45:14 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2004, 11:53:07 AM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 27, 2004, 12:35:52 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2004, 01:37:36 PM
Otherwise, I just felt the sub-quests (quest to the dungeon/Owl post outside dungeon, then the dungeon ITSELF) were divided at suitable times. So one could spend a 3hour block to reach the dungeon entrance (and Owl post), save/reset, teleport to the dungeon, and spend a new 3hour block in the dungeon. Or just save the dungeon for later, given you can now teleport.
I look at it this way, to be Link in Majora's Mask was to be MACGUYVER.
*o*
Players developed all the basic 3D Zeruda skills back in Ocarina, now they could apply them in MM as a wacky kind of speed test.
"FREEDOM ISN'T FREE" -- wacky Ubisoft/Tom Clancy non-tiku tiku tiku! advertising phrase.
"A Hero of Time that wastes Time is a BAD Hero of Time" -- LOL
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 27, 2004, 02:03:52 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2004, 02:19:57 PM
But it's not confirmed MM/WW-dude, Eiji Aounuma, is directing/designing the new one. In fact, he's the producer. The director hasn't been revealed yet.
~~~~~
Denis Dyack? John Romero? HAW HAW HAW
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 27, 2004, 02:37:56 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2004, 03:21:49 PM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 27, 2004, 03:56:13 PM
For them to make an announcement that a foreign director is heading up their new Zelda game before anyone can actually play the game will cause drama similar to when Nintendo announced Retro (an american unknown company) was going to head up Metriod and also take it into 3d.
Post by: Mario on December 27, 2004, 04:21:22 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 27, 2004, 04:29:10 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 27, 2004, 09:25:43 PM
1) Dyack being the director IS likely, and all the hush-hush with SK since E3 only strengthens that possibility...With Aonuma and Miyamoto over their shoulder, SK could get some well-deserved credit and respect...
2) YUCK TIMED GAMES...That's all I'll say...
3) Mario is Zelda Newb...That's all I'll say about that too...
Post by: Mario on December 27, 2004, 09:56:58 PM
Post by: Caillan on December 28, 2004, 12:43:40 AM
Quote
Dyack would destroy the entire Zelda franchise if he has anything to do with a single Zelda game.
I wouldn't worry too much, as long as Nintendo don't pull a PoP: WW, I'm sure they would'nt let him do anything much anyway. To me, Zelda and Metroid are Nintendo's most precious franchise, which are largely yet to be tainted with crappy spin-offs, I think they'd keep at least on of them first party. Anyway, Aonuma has previously directed two excellent Zelda games, I doubt they'd stub his influence so suddenly.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on December 28, 2004, 03:14:40 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 30, 2004, 10:06:04 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 30, 2004, 10:22:07 AM
Post by: Deguello on December 30, 2004, 10:42:11 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 31, 2004, 09:03:37 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 31, 2004, 09:10:42 AM
Post by: Mario on December 31, 2004, 01:09:27 PM
IT'S NOT REAL
Post by: MaleficentOgre on December 31, 2004, 05:44:53 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 01, 2005, 04:22:28 AM
But, no one said it better than Mario.
Post by: norebonomis on January 01, 2005, 08:08:43 PM
Post by: Dasmos on January 02, 2005, 12:13:47 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 02, 2005, 05:23:39 AM
Post by: norebonomis on January 02, 2005, 07:25:14 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 02, 2005, 07:40:48 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 02, 2005, 08:02:30 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2005, 01:54:21 PM
The Triforce IS MADE OF CHEESE, ya know.
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on January 02, 2005, 02:38:14 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 02, 2005, 02:42:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
The Triforce IS MADE OF CHEESE, ya know.
You eat it with the Tri Forks...
Post by: odifiend on January 02, 2005, 02:45:48 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 02, 2005, 02:59:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
The Triforce IS MADE OF CHEESE, ya know.
You eat it with the Tri Forks...
Bit hypocritical now, aren't we, Bill...
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 02, 2005, 03:02:26 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 02, 2005, 04:00:10 PM
Post by: Ages on January 02, 2005, 06:08:01 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 02, 2005, 08:41:31 PM
it's two thirty, i make no excuses if i am not making sense
Post by: SgtShiversBen on January 03, 2005, 12:07:34 AM
BTW the whole 3-D Four Swords is just something I thought would be cool, so yeah, don't get your hopes up.
P.S. The TriForce isn't made of cheese, it's made of perfectly triangle Doritos stacked upon each other. That's why Link always goes on quests, he needs to find the bag to put them in so he won't get crumbs all over his tunic.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 03, 2005, 03:39:51 AM
Yeah, that IGN article's garbage.
Post by: Pale on January 03, 2005, 04:07:25 AM
The Legend of Zelda: Gates of the Realm
Official title?! Yes, according to the-MagicBox.
Sounds very very cool to me....definately a more mature title, if there is such a thing. At least people won't be able to add a stupid 'L' anywhere.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 03, 2005, 04:43:17 AM
Post by: Pale on January 03, 2005, 04:51:53 AM
edit: I should read the thread....
nothing to see here...move along.. =P
Post by: vudu on January 03, 2005, 08:35:35 AM
Rumor Control: New Title for GC Zelda
I'm wondering who spends the time to come up with stuff like this? Is it a rabid fan, who's attempting to help Nintendo by building hype, or is it someone who's just trying to cause trouble?
Post by: Pale on January 03, 2005, 10:29:54 AM
Post by: norebonomis on January 03, 2005, 07:46:10 PM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on January 03, 2005, 09:20:23 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 04, 2005, 08:15:33 PM
my guess is zelda '05 probably wont come out till next christmas. i'm basing this guess on the fact that whenever nintendo makes an official press release concerning the release of new games for '05 they always talk about zelda last, and zelda always has less details.
maybe this isn't the fact and nintendo is just manipulating our lust for link. but i stick with my prediction of a november-december '05 release.
\/ post arguments below \/
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 05, 2005, 12:09:41 PM
*nod*
Post by: Balrog on January 09, 2005, 07:56:04 AM
Post by: norebonomis on January 09, 2005, 10:49:47 AM
Post by: norebonomis on January 09, 2005, 08:41:39 PM
link
Post by: Balrog on January 11, 2005, 12:08:31 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 11, 2005, 12:12:55 PM
Post by: Balrog on January 11, 2005, 01:34:17 PM
Post by: Smashman on January 12, 2005, 05:53:16 PM
Let's see...
1. It was easy.
2. It was short.
3. It was rushed.
4. It was monotonous.
I personally loved the graphics, but in most cases you can add that to the list.
This game will totally make up for the utter disappointment of tWW. Just look at those graphics. It looks like OoT 100x better. The gameplay will hopefully be fun, and the game long and challenging. Looks like this game could be the best game ever, folks! I was like 'woah' when I looked at the screenshots. I drowned in my own drool. Looks like GCN will go out with a bang.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 12, 2005, 05:59:41 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 13, 2005, 04:06:41 AM
Post by: Balrog on January 13, 2005, 05:27:14 AM
The thing that I hated most is the sound that you make when you struck someone with your sword, I just can't take it.
A question, how many hours TWW offers to play?
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 13, 2005, 06:35:27 AM
I hardly think this is the case...Wind Waker has been the only title that has been seriously "rushed"...I think Ninty's "problem" lies in the fact that they are always willing to change things around and try new things...Super Mario Sunshine got criticized for changing up the pace of the Mario series, and the same for Wind Waker for being radically different from OoT...The problem lies within the critical gamer who thrives on more of the same, not short dev cycles...
A question, how many hours TWW offers to play?
The same as all Zeldas: It all depends on whether you want to collect everything or not...
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 13, 2005, 08:52:15 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 14, 2005, 07:54:21 AM
But I feel that most of EAD's releases this generation have been watered-down from their N64 predecessors. It feels to me like most of their games this generation have been built in a rush and artificially lengthened with repetitive challenges and collecting. The Pikmin games would be the major exception.
I still love all of Nintendo's games this generation and I'm looking forward to the new Zelda more than any other game right now, but I really feel like Nintendo has been speeding up release schedules at the cost of quality in its games.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2005, 08:28:41 AM
It doesn't matter because Zelda at it's worst is still great (it's kind of like Pizza that way). I'm confident I'll be impressed. I enjoyed the hell out of Wind Waker and I consider it the worst post-NES EAD developed Zelda.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 14, 2005, 01:31:56 PM
Post by: Smashman on January 14, 2005, 03:14:05 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 14, 2005, 06:10:55 PM
OoT was the black sheep of Zelda for me, MM was much better by my reckoning.
I can't help but feel the new Zelda will also be a disappointment because it looks to be more like OoT than Wind Waker and LttP.
Post by: Caillan on January 14, 2005, 06:38:07 PM
Quote
Am I the only one who loved Wind Waker?
No. WW is my favourite game this generation. It looks like lots of people dislike it because there are a few obvious flaws in it, so it's easy to criticise. I just finished the labyrinth with three hearts, and I refuse to acknowledge that it's ease is anything but a major flaw.
Quote
It's silly to think that the new Zelda will be a big improvement over Wind Waker solely because of the graphic switchp
Well, the graphical switch could be seen as Nintendo recognising the more common complaints about WW, whether they are justified or not, and changing their development process accordingly. If the game is also longer (which is not unreasonable to presume considering it will not be rushed and there are two fully planned dungeons left from WW) and harder, then I think it could be much better than WW.
Quote
A question, how many hours TWW offers to play?
The main quest is not very long at all, but if you preserve in playing then you'll get a lot more out of it. Most of my friends stopped playing after thinking they were about half way through the game then finishing it, giving them a nasty surprise.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2005, 08:34:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Am I the only one who loved Wind Waker? To me that's the best 3D Zelda, mostly because it's a real conversion of LttP to 3D.
4th favorite game of all-time, ahead of Ocarina of Time at number 5...As a Zelda whore, I love all Zelda games, so it doesn't really matter all that much what the game looks like or entails...I do feel, however, that toon-shading best fits the nature of fantasy in general, and "hardcore" visuals only attract non-otaku like Smashman to the table...
And once again I'll reiterate my belief that the Zelda series really isn't about "Oh **** I only have 1 heart going into this boss battle" or "HECTIC SUPER BATTLES," but the stories of young men taking it on themselves their fate to conquer evil with a huge emphasis on exploration...Because the Zelda games have more of a feeling of an actual adventure instead of action game, I feel I enjoy it much more than what others want...It seems that some of these whiners need to find a different series to play...
Post by: Mario on January 14, 2005, 08:44:33 PM
Hopefully walking around in this new Zelda (I wish it would get a subtitle already) is fun!
Quote
And once again I'll reiterate my belief that the Zelda series really isn't about "Oh **** I only have 1 heart going into this boss battle" or "HECTIC SUPER BATTLES," but the stories of young men taking it on themselves their fate to conquer evil with a huge emphasis on exploration...Because the Zelda games have more of a feeling of an actual adventure instead of action game, I feel I enjoy it much more than what others want...It seems that some of these whiners need to find a different series to play...
Well, going back to the original Legend of Zelda on NES, I find that incredibly hard, and my main focus in that was destroying all the bad guys and keeping myself alive, but my secondary focus was finding more heart pieces and upgrades so I could survive easier! Which I guess is the adventure / exploration part you're talking about. Actually beating the game and doing whatever it was I had to do (can't remember, beating all the dungeons to save the princess or something?) was always in the back of my mind, but it never motivated me.... or something like that.
Every Zelda game after Zelda 1 has had it's priorities shifted to making the plot the main part of the game to me, which is why i've kinda forced myself to play through LttP and Wind Waker. OoT and MM though... those stories was just so awesome I guess, that I still wanted to play them, especially Majora's Mask, which is possibly my favourite game of all time.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2005, 09:01:50 PM
Bad example...Miyamoto changed the focus of the series with LttP, where the series gained sidequests...These sidequests are what spur exploration...If you are on a set path to beat a game, you will only cover the areas that you must absolutely go to to finish the game...However, these sidequests force you to explore and seek out every corner of the map...Aonuma has even stated his belief that exploration and sidequests are the key focus of the series, and that's the reason there are so many in MM and WW...
Post by: Mario on January 14, 2005, 09:08:30 PM
I just didn't like walking around in TWW so I was not motivated to do the sidequests. However I loved doing them in Majora's Mask because I like walking around in Majoras Mask!
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 14, 2005, 09:31:57 PM
2) Maybe you should try crawling?
Post by: Morien on January 14, 2005, 09:42:19 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 15, 2005, 03:37:09 AM
MM is my favorite Zelda, and I found collecting all the masks more fascinating than finding all the treasure maps or taking pictos.
Post by: The Omen on January 15, 2005, 11:40:30 AM
I think part of my problem with WW are the puzzles. In OoT, I was downright infuriated by some of the dungeon puzzles. The Water Temple was so hard for me that it really seemed like I won something for getting through it. With WW, I was never stuck so bad that I had to turn it off and regroup for a day. In fact, I usually figured it out in minutes.
So for me, it isn't about not dying, it's about being confused, angry, frustrated, then out of nowhere feeling jubilation after I figure it out...which WW had very little of.
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on January 16, 2005, 01:05:32 AM
As for the dungeons in WW, I found taking control of other characters very tedious and time consuming. I also hated the fact that you can't skip or speed through messages, like when you find a dungeon map or something. Reading the same message over and over * (NumOfDungeonsInGame) is no fun at all. I'm surprised they had it like that when all the other Zelda titles didn't. That is actually one of the reasons that I have not replayed it more often.
Post by: NightfallInfernal on January 16, 2005, 08:43:53 AM
Post by: Uglydot on January 16, 2005, 12:12:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Am I the only one who loved Wind Waker? To me that's the best 3D Zelda, mostly because it's a real conversion of LttP to 3D.
OoT was the black sheep of Zelda for me, MM was much better by my reckoning.
I can't help but feel the new Zelda will also be a disappointment because it looks to be more like OoT than Wind Waker and LttP.
I greatly enjoyed Wind Waker.
Post by: Nile Boogie on January 17, 2005, 03:40:22 AM
Which brings me to my point about The Legend Of Zelda 05. Although I'm not a graphics whore, I do think graphics are a major part of the total experince. If this bigger, badder, darker(better?) Zelda looks even close to what Resident Evil4 has done...Can you imagine?
Post by: Gamefreak on January 17, 2005, 09:04:40 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 18, 2005, 03:10:45 AM
Post by: Mario on January 18, 2005, 03:31:07 AM
I mean, OH MAN i'm heartbroken, how could Nintendo not have included 104811 teraflop polygon models and cyberwarp supertextures in an early build of a Zelda game? Not to mention the severe lack of boogerton fluxcapacitaters on Link's model. Nintendo are TRYING to make the worst looking game ever! I hate them!
Post by: norebonomis on January 18, 2005, 10:46:01 AM
Post by: Balrog on January 18, 2005, 04:35:08 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 18, 2005, 04:42:21 PM
Post by: Balrog on January 18, 2005, 04:51:40 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 18, 2005, 06:03:07 PM
Things I hope to see in the new Zelda: no Hyrule and no Ganon (preferably no Vaati, too, but I don't see that as a problem). So far as I'm concerned, the only thing they absolutely need are Link and Octoroks.
Post by: Nile Boogie on January 19, 2005, 03:56:47 AM
Maybe the game could start off using the wind waker style graphics, with scenes from WW playing. An old woman in a rocking chair telling a story to some school kids closes a book and says "that which was truth, is now Legend..."
I don't know. Just bless us with a game worthy of the title, The Legend Of Zelda: (insert good good title here).
And 1nce again, please let this game, since going for big and dark, look close to the raining church graveyard scene from another AAA game recently released on out favorite system.
Post by: TMW on January 19, 2005, 08:00:29 AM
The Legend of Zelda: F*@#ing Up Peoples S*&$ On Horseback.
Post by: NightfallInfernal on January 19, 2005, 08:23:51 AM
QuoteNo, when you beat the end boss and get the final outro video you beat the game. When you get all the extras you complete the game.
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
You haven't beaten the game till you found all the extras...
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 19, 2005, 09:50:30 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 19, 2005, 10:35:06 AM
In regards to game length I think the "get to the ending" option is what the designer should focus on because for most people that's the goal. I have spent numerous hours in Majora's Mask getting heart pieces after seeing the ending but I would have felt ripped off if I HAD to do that in order to get a decent sized playing time out of it. The new Zelda game should take a decent amount of time to play just to see the ending with all extra heart pieces and side quests acting as a bonus.
So far the Zelda games haven't disappointed me in lenght yet. Even though the extras are there the core game has always had enough depth and length to satisfy.
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 19, 2005, 11:02:52 AM
Quote
Heh. If you think that the water temple in OoT was hard, wait til you try the one in MM. That dungeon caused me to put off playing the game for an entire YEAR! I was so confused and frustrated that I just couldn't take it anymore.
It's been a few years for me now >_< I don't think it was THAT bad, but my time ran out JUST before the boss and I got so angry I never played again. That's why I need the Zelda Collector's Disk for GC, because I think I can finally beat it with a GC controller. Conmfortable hands = me controlling my temper. I guess.
New Zelda? Length? New Zelda will have length
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 19, 2005, 11:32:16 AM
Post by: Balrog on January 19, 2005, 01:09:12 PM
I can say, with all confident, that I had absoluty no problem beating WW. They tell you what you have to do. In OOT I had problems in one thing: finding the Lens of Truth. The Water Temple was EASY but FRUSTRATING. Don't get confused in that part.
In MM I where had the most problems was on Ikana: I didn't know how to defeat Sharp(the Composer Brother) I was searching the whole time for Guru(the one that taugh you the Song of Storms in OOT). I didn't know how to get the Garo Mask. Also I had problems on Darmani's grave, where you have to pull his grave to get hot water. I was stuck there for like a week.
The mask that gave me the most problems was the Couples Mask: I got the Fierce Deity Mask fairly easy after geting the C.M because I had all the other masks.
I haven't played any other Zelda game(only OOT, MM and WW).
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 19, 2005, 02:24:13 PM
Arg! Get out there and play the 2d ones!
Post by: Balrog on January 19, 2005, 02:28:40 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 19, 2005, 03:25:05 PM
Post by: Balrog on January 19, 2005, 04:07:13 PM
What I'm saying is that shouldn't use the same formula of OOT to make the upcoming Zelda game.
One thing that I really liked about the new Zelda game are the you can actually fight melee combat while on your horse. That is what I'm talking about: new puzzles involving horses should add a new flavor to this Zelda title.
Post by: norebonomis on January 19, 2005, 07:54:34 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 19, 2005, 08:46:26 PM
Yay water!
Post by: norebonomis on January 19, 2005, 11:31:54 PM
Post by: NightfallInfernal on January 20, 2005, 03:21:20 AM
Quotesmart
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I'll stand by what I said...
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 20, 2005, 08:27:41 AM
i don't know if anyone has seen these, well the bottom one is one that i havn't yet, supposedly from the secret trailer that only and handful actually saw
Ninty makes some of the most beautiful water ever...
Post by: couchmonkey on January 20, 2005, 09:48:42 AM
It's true that we take certain Zelda puzzles for granted. I played Wind Waker with my girlfriend and she had no idea how to get through the very first room in the Dragon Roost dungeon. All she had to do was light one of the sticks on fire and light the other torches with it, but this is completely unintuitive to someone who hasn't played through the other Zelda games. It struck me as she spent several minutes trying to figure it out that I might as well tell her what to do because she didn't have the slightest idea. Some of us have been doing it over and over since A Link to the Past, but it's nearly impossible to a newbie. I'm guessing King of Red Lions might give you a hint if you take forever in that room, but I've never waited long enough to see.
What I found ironic was how the game spelled out the rather simple candle puzzle in the final dungeon. Anyone who's made it that far in the game has figured out harder and less intuitive puzzles, to the point where I knew what I had to do before I had even seen both halves of the puzzle, yet they spelled it out completely by showing the things you had to do in order.
So I guess Nintendo needs to try and come up with some new types of puzzles. I think Nintendo's really good at puzzles, actually. Even the bosses in the Zelda games are puzzle-like, they're really outstanding, usually.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 20, 2005, 10:08:33 AM
And that's why I like the bosses in the Zelda games...They aren't meant to be hard, they are meant to make the gamer use their head and usually (though not always) ends up with the gamer using the tool they acquired in said dungeon to defeat the boss...It's about discovering the trick to beating the boss...(Oh, and you should really play Minish Cap...A lot of the puzzles are absolutely fantastic and the game contains my favorite boss (Zelda or otherwise) ever...
Post by: Famicom on January 20, 2005, 10:17:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
It's true that we take certain Zelda puzzles for granted. I played Wind Waker with my girlfriend and she had no idea how to get through the very first room in the Dragon Roost dungeon.
Which reminds me, someone I know who put off playing WW for a good year and a half because he was stuck in an area where you had to put the rolled up bug over the button. He kept trying to throw it on the button, and eventually gave up. I told him "just walk over and put it down on the button...." "YOU CAN DO THAT???"
But he was no Zelda noob, so I guess it doesn't really stack up to your example.
Post by: norebonomis on January 20, 2005, 11:42:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Famicom
I told him "just walk over and put it down on the button...." "YOU CAN DO THAT???"
that's so funny, i am thinking about playin windwaker again, i don't even remember anything about beating gannon at the end. i have to beat it again so i can remember what happend.
has anyone seen the majora's mask music video on zeldapower.com? [ LINK ]
Post by: Balrog on January 20, 2005, 02:43:05 PM
The sandworm wasn't difficult but if you aren't careful you might have some trouble.
The fat-ass ghost is easier than those guys with armors and big swords.
The flower can be killed without loosing more than 2 hearts
The one-eye lava bug was easy if you figure it out how to kill him.
Conclusion: Nintendo should focus a little more on making bosses and regular enemies a real threat.
I've yet to see Link carrying and axe or a scythe: it's always a damn sword.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 20, 2005, 03:54:00 PM
If you don't like them then it's time to find a new series to play...
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 20, 2005, 06:32:51 PM
(think of fighting every enemy in the game with the Never Happening or Skull Hammers, that's what it'd be like)
Post by: Balrog on January 20, 2005, 08:17:26 PM
What is the problem with axes? They look better than a sword IMO.
I don't know, an axe, a fail, a spear: something different.
Also Link look so fragile with those leather clothes so adding an armor would make the game better.
Post by: norebonomis on January 20, 2005, 08:32:47 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on January 20, 2005, 11:07:01 PM
Post by: Dasmos on January 20, 2005, 11:30:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Assuming the Revolution is backwards compatible with the Cube, and Sony announced at E3 that the PS3 would be out in March 06 prompting Nintendo to launch Revolution this fall against the Xenon, I wonder if we could see some special bonus for playing the new Zelda on the Revolution. Perhaps we could use the Revolution's innovations with this GameCube game.
Like Zelda: OoS & OoA they were GBC games but if you had an GBA you could access the 'Advance Shop'. But maybe Nintendo could be a bit more innovative
Post by: norebonomis on January 21, 2005, 01:17:17 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 21, 2005, 08:08:33 AM
But they're not easy to use at all. Appearances ain't everything. Keep in mind, Link is not a battle machine or something. Armor? Link is supposed to be quick and inventive, not a plain old warrior.
Norebonomis, I said m e g a t o n, which made me laugh quite a lot after you said that.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2005, 10:28:40 AM
Post by: Balrog on January 21, 2005, 10:41:10 AM
I only died once in WW when I was on the Dragon temple because I fell many times in the lava and eventually get killed but that wasn't 'cause the enemies.
Axes are more powerful than swords yet very versatiles. Adult Link can carry a two handed axe without problem. All I want is a new gaming experience from Zelda rather than the same thing but with better graphics.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2005, 11:24:56 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 21, 2005, 11:35:35 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2005, 11:38:36 AM
Zelda is all about the gameplay so think of ideas that work directly with gameplay. Otherwise you're not thinking like a Zelda designer should. If you're gong to suggest an axe put it in a gameplay idea like letting Link use an enemy's axe against him like the weapons in Wind Waker or using an axe to chop through barricades and cut down trees (don't know how logging would work in Zelda but it's an idea).
Though I agree that the Wind Waker enemies were too easy. I've never seen the Game Over screen. I would want enemies more like in Ocarina of Time where whenever I encountered a Stalfos or an Iron Knuckle I was afraid of getting killed. Puzzles and exploration should still be the focus though. The combat just shouldn't be too easy.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2005, 11:47:05 AM
One of the bosses is a big statue come to life and you fight him in a ruined castle. The castle is full of old weapons which he grabs to hit you with. Whenever he hits you it sends your weapon flying and when you hit him he drops his weapon. If you drop your sword he can grab it and beat the crap out of you with it. And he instinctively goes for your sword whenever you drop it. So for most of the fight you have to use the weapons in the area. However due to his hard body and the age of the weapons whenever you hit him your weapon (except for your sword of course) takes damage and breaks after a certain amount of hits. He can also block which damages the weapon without hurting him. So the whole design of the boss fight is to dodge him and grab whatever weapon you can to use against him until he's destroyed.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 21, 2005, 12:16:35 PM
The game over screen says game over in white letters and has some leaves blown by in the wind. I don't know why I saw it, though. Could have just been curious about what it looked like.
Post by: norebonomis on January 21, 2005, 01:17:08 PM
i don't object to link wearing armor, but i do think he is too good for it. if it were something out of LOTR, like magical clothing that protects, it'd be better looking than some heavy meatal suit of armor. but besides all that he has a sheild yo.
from the trailer that i've been watching over and over and over, 'hyrule field' looks HUGE, i wonder if it's similar to sailing in WW, how in certain spots sharks would come, maybe in certain areas while riding horse back you get attacted my moblin/whatever on horses. i wonder how the enviroment will change, it's constant in the series for link to open new areas by recieveing a special item, or a road to not be completed/cleared of debrit, will the lakes be frozen during the 'winter' of the game.. oooh ooh, maybe in next-gen games if your playing the game in january you wont be able to get to a certain place because of snowbanks, then in spring when it melts you can acsess new areas, this would be really neat allthough what would you do if you had to play a 40 hour game over the course of a year? might not be that bad if there are plenty of things to occupy you. (in the winter you can't get into the under water temple, but you can go to the top of the mountain and compete in skiing minigames with online high score tracking)
i just can't friggin wait for this game. and i can't wait for the revolution.
Post by: nemo_83 on January 21, 2005, 01:34:18 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2005, 01:40:31 PM
Plus, I wonder if they are going to keep the "Carrot Meter" or just go ahead and give the horse infinite stamina...
Post by: Balrog on January 21, 2005, 02:04:19 PM
I'm not saying that Zelda should focus 100% on combat because that would be pretty boring. I want new puzzles more than anything but there should be something in your path to stop you: ENEMIES!!!.
Post by: norebonomis on January 21, 2005, 02:46:21 PM
i also liked that underground place, i forgot what it was called, where you just keep going deeper and deeper fighting enemies of greater and greater strength, too bad all the enemies were really easy and it just took time to beat. not a lot of skill either.
i was never one for treasure hunting, i've never collected everything in a zelda game besides usable items, never cared for getting all the gold skullatas or whatever they are called in OoT. and i never really got the point of all the spoils you collect with your spoils bag in WW. If these 'crazy-collect-everything-sidequests' were more rewarding. like being able to compare to other players online, or recieve special FMV/Story elements, i might be convinced to spend the extra hours searching every corner.
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2005, 02:52:07 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 21, 2005, 03:02:16 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 21, 2005, 03:07:57 PM
::sticks out tounge::
Post by: Famicom on January 21, 2005, 06:45:37 PM
Post by: Morien on January 21, 2005, 09:38:08 PM
If the game lasted a long long time! Say 50 hours or more! One big problem I had with Wind Waker was that I got to towards the end and realised I was at the final boss. Side-quests aside, I think the games could benefit from greater depth to the journey.
And if the game was free running too.
For example, say there was to be a big battle ala 'Helms Deep' (Lord of the Rings, Two Towers) between two sides, one of which Link chooses to fight for. (For example's sake, Ganon's side or Hyrule. Maybe he picks Ganon's side because he's been fooled to think they'r the good guys or doesn't know that Ganon is the leader, and later in the story realises the truth, or he picks Hyrule's side). Then he could be going off to find an essential item to win the battle but depending on how long he(you) takes he can either get there before the battle starts and fight alongside the men, or get there late and come in half way from a different side (like Gandalf did in Two Towers) or completley miss the fight and find a massacre (which, if he fought on Ganon's side, makes him realise that he was fighting for the wrong side and sets out to make things right and restore the kingdom).
Also what I'd like are realistic towns/villages. Sure something with the status of Kakiriko village (or whatever it's called) can be small. But Hyrule town is a different story. Shouldn't the capital of the land be somewhat bigger?
But, what do I know?
Post by: Mario on January 22, 2005, 01:44:31 AM
Quote
You know what would really be cool?
If the game lasted a long long time! Say 50 hours or more!
I disagree, 50 hours is TOO long, really long games annoy me. I enjoy playing through games more than once, if a game is too long when i'm near the end i'm thinking "HURRY UP and END", then when I finish it I never want to look at it again (ToS). A "short" game with billions of sidequests is fine though, like Majora's Mask.
Post by: Gamefreak on January 23, 2005, 07:32:43 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 23, 2005, 12:51:17 PM
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2005, 06:53:08 AM
....yeah
Post by: TMW on January 24, 2005, 07:59:18 AM
I personally think, with this new direction they've taken in making the OOT and WW "canon", that LOZ2K5 is going to be the WW Link all grown up, in another land and all that. Or, just a few hunded more years down the road.
Man...Hyrule is perpetually in the dark ages. Sucks to be them.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2005, 08:02:59 AM
Oh, and the Moblins and Bokoblins are pulled straight from WW, plus Link's hairstyle is identical to that of WW Link...I say it's more probable that this is a direct sequel to WW...
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2005, 09:42:21 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2005, 09:55:21 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2005, 09:59:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
hyrule had to have gotten flooded somehow, perhaps they will elaborate on that in this game.
It was explained in the intro of Wind Waker that OoT Link had disappeared long before the flood occurred...This is because OoT Link disappeared from the normal timeline when he went back in time to hit the MM sidetrack...
Post by: norebonomis on January 24, 2005, 10:25:12 AM
Quote
It was explained in the intro of Wind Waker that OoT Link had disappeared long before the flood occurred...This is because OoT Link disappeared from the normal timeline when he went back in time to hit the MM sidetrack...
this is exactly why i think that LOZ: 2005 will take place after oot. since link was stuck in the MM paralell reality, during some war, where at the end the gods decide to flood the land leading to windwaker. i love timeline theory.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 24, 2005, 10:29:57 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2005, 10:31:53 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2005, 10:39:05 AM
There are three major details in Wind Waker's story that just clashed huge with what I accepted as the existing Zelda storyline. First the villain returns... as Ganondorf? Up till now the assumption was that Ganondorf was his human form and he turned into Ganon which is the form he has remained in every since. But in Wind Waker he's back as a human and never turns into Ganon. That just seemed very out of place to me. Next there's the freaking flood. How the hell does the entire world being flooded fit into the Zelda storyline? Somehow Hyrule exists after Wind Waker in a form very similar to how it looks in Ocarina of Time. I really hope they have a good explanation for this in the next game. And finally they set Wind Waker at 100 years later which makes no sense. That's too short of a time for the insanely huge differences between Hyrule and "Floodville" to occur. Evolution in only 100 years? An entire legend lost in the annals of time being only 100 years old? Imagine how silly it would sound to talk about 1905 as some forgotten ancient era. That's pretty much what Wind Waker does.
I'm hoping that this new Zelda explains how everything works out but I really got the feeling playing Wind Waker that Nintendo was saying "forget all those other Zelda games, we're changing the story and there's nothing you can do about it."
Maybe this new Zelda will start with a quick flash of Wind Waker and then Link will suddenly waking up and saying "it was all a dream."
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2005, 10:46:45 AM
WRONG...In the ending you clearly see Ganondorf in his human form being locked up within the Sacred Realm...Screenshot proof
"How the hell does the entire world being flooded fit into the Zelda storyline?"
All we know is what is told in the introduction to WW...Remember, it's a legend and legends don't necessarily need to be explained fully...
"And finally they set Wind Waker at 100 years later which makes no sense."
How many times must I clarify that Aonuma was mistranslated? Proof
You can clearly see the game takes place more than a hundred years after OoT...
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 24, 2005, 10:55:12 AM
To me it seemed as if Ganon was just tossed into OoT. Sure, his name was Ganondorf, but it just seemed like sticking with the old games for the sake of it rather than continuing anything. As far as I'm concerned, Ganondorf is another villain and Ganon is simply a form he took.
"Next there's the freaking flood. How the hell does the entire world being flooded fit into the Zelda storyline? Somehow Hyrule exists after Wind Waker in a form very similar to how it looks in Ocarina of Time. I really hope they have a good explanation for this in the next game."
The reason for the flood is laid out clearly in Wind Waker. Also, you're assuming a timeline exists, when it really doesn't. A Link to the Past does not necessarily occur after all of these games. Even if Nintendo said that, they were BSing because they don't really have a timeline set up.
"And finally they set Wind Waker at 100 years later which makes no sense. That's too short of a time for the insanely huge differences between Hyrule and 'Floodville' to occur. Evolution in only 100 years? An entire legend lost in the annals of time being only 100 years old? Imagine how silly it would sound to talk about 1905 as some forgotten ancient era. That's pretty much what Wind Waker does."
Well, 100 years is a much longer time without photographs and videos and other forms of memory other than oral transaction and literature. Besides, think of this: what happened in the past century? Cars, airplanes, two world wars (and a multitude of smaller ones), radio, television, computers, the internet, all of that. Plenty can happen in one century; not even that much happens in Wind Waker, so it's totally reasonable.
It also clearly explains that the Ritos did not evolve, they were given their wings by Valoo.
EDIT: Bill explained my point regarding the time that passed. Thanks in return
I do see Wind Waker as ignoring the timeline, though. Which is fine with me, because I refuse to believe one exists anyway, and thus far all evidence seems to be in favor of me.
They are games, and the first ones are disconnected from the new 3D ones entirely. Too well.
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2005, 11:31:59 AM
You're right. I forgot about that. I remember at the time thinking that the Ocarina ending clashes with A Link to the Past. But then Nintendo couldn't even get the freaking Zoras to look the same so I guess I should just accept that they suck at paying attention to story related details in their own games. I know that if I made a game I would know every little detail inside and out and there would be virtually no unexplainable holes.
Post by: TMW on January 24, 2005, 11:39:04 AM
Alas, since I hardly think Ninty is going to drop the trend now, I think 2k5 will take place after WW...the flood years do not need to be told...that story had it's end with WW. To go back would comprimise the story for the sake of pleasing the audience.
Let it be the true sequel to WW and be little C-e-l-d-a all grown up. Into a bishy Link, but a grown up Link nontheless.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2005, 11:49:01 AM
"But then Nintendo couldn't even get the freaking Zoras to look the same so I guess I should just accept that they suck at paying attention to story related details in their own games."
Ah ah ahhhhh...It's explained in the Oracles (Ages, to be exact) that the River Zora and Ocean Zora(good guys) are two different species...It's clear to me that it's the *gamer* that sucks at paying attention to details...
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 24, 2005, 12:02:11 PM
Hair theory IS best theory
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2005, 12:16:06 PM
I haven't beaten Oracle of Ages so I did not know that. I never would have expected them to put a detail like that in one of those games. Still when Ocarina of Time came out no explanation was given which bugged me. It was like suddenly they looked totally different.
Post by: Gamefreak on January 24, 2005, 03:07:54 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 24, 2005, 04:43:23 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2005, 05:26:57 PM
Ganondorf's power to turn into Ganon is given by the Triforce itself! The reason he couldn't turn into Ganon in WW is because the Triforce had already been taken away from him...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2005, 05:56:25 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 25, 2005, 01:11:44 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 02:18:47 AM
Post by: Balrog on January 25, 2005, 05:18:09 AM
He no longer holds the Triforce of Power when Link killed him in WW so he can't be revived by any way.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2005, 06:29:59 AM
).Personally I like to see new villains. Paper Mario 2 was awesome in that respect (whereas Sunshine, in the end, disappointed), and Vaati has been a breath of fresh air. I'm interested in seeing what they'll do for the upcoming Zelda game.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 06:39:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Balrog
So Ganondorf is DEAD!!!.
He no longer holds the Triforce of Power when Link killed him in WW so he can't be revived by any way.
Hey, the Master Sword can't be stuck in his head forever...
Post by: couchmonkey on January 25, 2005, 08:27:18 AM
It seems to me that Nintendo never concerned itself too much with how Ganon returns to life from one game to the next, at least until Wind Waker came out. He's arguably dead at the end of A Link to the Past and The Legend of Zelda, so how does he "come back" in whichever game you deem to be later chronologically?
I'd really like to see the next game explain what happens to Hyrule between the Wind Waker and the later games in the series, but I'm not so keen on the idea of it being the same Link, because for some reason the conflicting art styles make it hard for me to accept that it's the same character.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 08:45:31 AM
Sounds like you wanted an answer...
In the Oracles you see that it doesn't take all that much to bring Ganon back to life...And in AoL the story was that Link's blood was needed to bring him back...
but I'm not so keen on the idea of it being the same Link, because for some reason the conflicting art styles make it hard for me to accept that it's the same character.
I think it's an excellent idea...As many have already realized, the world through a child's eyes is obviously going to be different than that of a more hardened teen who has already experienced the horrors of the world...
I'm taking names in this thread...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 25, 2005, 08:45:49 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 08:47:04 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 25, 2005, 09:00:32 AM
I didn't menton OOT's Link, But was going with Couchmonkey on the last page lol.We'll see who's right
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2005, 09:52:28 AM
I'd forgot about the Master Sword being lodged in his head
I think it would be cool if you pulled the sword out in one game, releasing him, and fought him at that moment (while he was weak, just a normal boss or miniboss). He'd flee, and maybe be the primary villain in the game after that.
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 25, 2005, 10:04:40 AM
I want to see Vaati in 3D... now that would be pretty cool.
Or maybe Vaati and Ganon could combine their powers and become a supervillian for the rest of the series.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 10:09:17 AM
Vaati really isn't all he's cracked up to be...Play both Minish Cap and Four Swords Adventures to see why this wouldn't work much at all...
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 25, 2005, 10:13:33 AM
Haven't finished Minish Cap yet, but four swords Vaati would be fine if they made him stronger and more ominous.
Post by: Caterkiller on January 25, 2005, 10:22:59 AM
I want to point out one more thing about how the original LoZ connects all the way up to WW.
LoZ - 1st Link/Zelda
Loz II - 1st Link/Zelda
ALTTP - 2nd Link/Zelda
OoT - 3rd Link/Zelda
MM - 3rd Link/with cameo of Zelda
WW - 4th Link/Zelda
And I say the fourth because befor Zelda is revieled, her name is TETRA, and if you look it up it means 4. As in the 4th reincarnation.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 10:55:10 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2005, 12:21:30 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2005, 12:29:51 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2005, 12:32:38 PM
Anyway, that's really cool. Twas an awesome final boss.
Post by: Gamefreak on January 25, 2005, 12:40:27 PM
Personally I'd prefer if it rounds out the end of the Hero of Time's story, rounding of a trilogy with MM and OoT. In OoT he wins, gets sent back to childhood, then goes off to Termina, then in this game he could be that Link whos finally grown into OoT's adult Link naturally, and this could tell the final story of his life. Imagine this new game ending with the Hero of Time dying (or going away somewhere, or sacrificing himself, or something) and setting up the events for Hyrule getting flooded and setting up TWW... Imagine this game closing with Hyrule's destruction
Post by: Balrog on January 25, 2005, 12:41:13 PM
You get my point(hopefully)
Post by: Gamefreak on January 25, 2005, 12:44:10 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 25, 2005, 12:44:13 PM
I've always just assumed him to be LttP Link because until all these Capcom games started showing up the game were in pairs with the same Link present for two games. That explaination is really good though.
Post by: Mario on January 25, 2005, 01:02:23 PM
Post by: TMW on January 25, 2005, 01:56:44 PM
Ganondorf will come back, most likely because of this. He may need the Triforce of Power to turn in big Piggy Dude Thing, but if it is the same Ganondorf from OOT as is implied...maybe he was made immortal by the ToP when he first got ahold of it...and doesn't need it to remain immortal. And since, that triforce is intrinsically tied with ol' G now, the ToC keeps bringing in a Link to fight him when it needs it.
Hell, I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud here.
SAN DIMAS HIGH FOOTBALL RULES!
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2005, 02:59:36 PM
Quote
Personally I'd prefer if it rounds out the end of the Hero of Time's story, rounding of a trilogy with MM and OoT. In OoT he wins, gets sent back to childhood, then goes off to Termina, then in this game he could be that Link whos finally grown into OoT's adult Link naturally, and this could tell the final story of his life. Imagine this new game ending with the Hero of Time dying (or going away somewhere, or sacrificing himself, or something) and setting up the events for Hyrule getting flooded and setting up TWW... Imagine this game closing with Hyrule's destruction
That would be very interesting, except the beginning of Wind Waker explains that when the darkness arose again no hero came to stop it (thus the gods flooding the world).
Post by: ThePerm on January 25, 2005, 06:57:11 PM
ok well there arte two parallel universes
1
Link and Zelda trap ganon in the sacred realm....time goes on as link is gone
the world gets flooded....wind waker
2
Link is transported back to his timeline and goes on his adventure to termina..some reason Zelda has to leave the castle and gives link the ocarina. This is probaby because of Ganondorf's coup de tat on King Hyrule. She had to leave....she is an exiled princess. Perhaps she is staying with king zora lol? Maybe this is where the war comes in.
and zoras...remember the zola's from loz.........
Thats what this big war could be about in the new one.
Post by: couchmonkey on January 26, 2005, 06:54:49 AM
I agree that Ganon is easy to revive, that's what I was hinting at. It doesn't matter where or how you beat him, he just comes back again. I don't think Nintendo gives a flying dingo what the root cause is. For sport's sake I'll say that it's because he has just enough essence of the Triforce of Power within him, even if the physical Triforce has been separated from his body.
Post by: Balrog on January 26, 2005, 01:07:11 PM
Post by: Mario on January 26, 2005, 01:45:44 PM
Post by: TMW on January 26, 2005, 04:57:57 PM
But LoZ2K5 seems to have an M rating.
Hrmm...I wonder if the higher ups here at PGC know something they aren't telling us about... =P
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2005, 05:05:34 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 26, 2005, 05:54:37 PM
You know, the whole wind waker debacle.
Post by: Gamefreak on January 26, 2005, 06:08:07 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 26, 2005, 06:09:04 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 26, 2005, 06:26:22 PM
or... he's been getting into grandpa's cough syrup
Post by: Savior on January 26, 2005, 06:34:20 PM
Cant wait for the Godsmack on Zelda LOLyeah its probably a mistake, though to be certain, i expect this game to be more darker and more action filled than Zeldas of past. But it would need blood to deserve an M Rating
Post by: TMW on January 26, 2005, 06:40:22 PM
Link steps off his horse, pulls his sword, and the Godsmack starts.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 26, 2005, 06:42:06 PM
This might be the start of something great.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 26, 2005, 06:45:33 PM
You know, "My dear, that dress is simply ravishing."
So I imagine that word in that voice every time I read it.
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 26, 2005, 07:36:30 PM
Ravishing elementary... hmmm.
Anyway, back on topic. If Godsmack is in this game somebody dies.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 26, 2005, 08:23:51 PM
But it'll be intresting nontheless, of what the new Zelda will be like.
Perhap's the most to expect is an "T" rating, but we'll see which way this Zelda will go.
Can't wait. I love to hear that overworld theme in 5.1 Dolby pro logic II
More than that I'd like to hear Malons theme, it's a nice tune.
Post by: norebonomis on January 27, 2005, 12:44:01 AM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on January 27, 2005, 03:52:35 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 27, 2005, 06:47:56 AM
Nore yes it was wrong, you gave line a big bottom lip lolI couldn't resist
Post by: Renny on January 27, 2005, 03:38:14 PM
Give me some emo. I want to feel Link's pain.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 27, 2005, 03:45:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Renny
Give me some emo. I want to feel Link's pain.
Don't worry, with the revolutionary new anti-player bongo sword peripheral that's coming with this game, the GameCube will be able to hit you back.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 27, 2005, 04:13:57 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 29, 2005, 05:43:13 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 29, 2005, 06:51:32 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 29, 2005, 07:03:35 PM
...
IT NEVER EXISTED, K? >=(
Post by: norebonomis on January 29, 2005, 10:18:41 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on February 01, 2005, 10:44:25 AM
they don't have to give anything away about the game, if there is anything different about this game compared to every other zelda ever made asside from the cdi games. the game is accepted across the web as the most anticipated game this year, yet nintendo won't put their money where their mouth is, they say they are going to kick a$$ and take names but they won't take advantage of hype for this game like they need to. now is the time to push the game, with simple vids, no money needed for an advertising campaign, the web would do all the work for them at this point. but if they wait until E3 and just have a total blowout with it in playable form then they have wasted months of watering mouths. after E3 simple vids won't be enough, people will be ready to buy the game. now is the time to tease; E3 is the time to let people play it. unless they show a video before E3, we don't know that the game is still coming to the cube, especially with rumors circling that the next system will be out this year. to tell you the truth this new Zelda features more polys from what I can tell than some of the NextBox games. other effects like lighting too look more advanced in the year old cube video than games like Elder Scrolls even though Elder Scrolls features better looking trees and grass. and how are they loading up the huge areas shown in that Zelda vid without a harddrive which is also rummored to be packaged in with the next system?
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 01, 2005, 11:23:23 AM
Assuming they're blown away, which I certainly hope they (and I) are.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2005, 11:34:19 AM
and how are they loading up the huge areas shown in that Zelda vid without a harddrive which is also rummored to be packaged in with the next system?
It's called the Nintendo Magic...
(Seriously, you don't need a harddrive if you have skill)
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 01, 2005, 11:55:32 AM
Too much im afraid, Zelda (probably THE nintendo game ever) and the new console in one show.
Post by: Gamefreak on February 01, 2005, 12:09:20 PM
Anyway, plenty of console games use efficient hidden streaming now after Metroid Prime's release (Soul Reaver had it before, but not as good)...
Oh, and I wouldn't mind some blood in the next Zelda. The N64 ones had some (not much), and even Wind Waker had this thing sorta like blood, everyone but me probably missed it though... it was this purple liquid spurting from one of the enemies in the game... very subtle... But anyway I'd like if this game looked more real than fake... It would be so awesome if instead of just trading shots with stalfos until you killed it, they had a deep parry system where most hits result in sword parries, making an actual hit much more rare and more damaging. Imagine stalfos falling apart as you chopped them apart and stuff.. And not the fake falling in apart in WW where it would was scripted... And actual blood from living enemies would make it more realistic, which is what we're going for right? Chopping up enemies would be nice too, especially things like the spiders and plants... Not Mortal Kombat inspired Warrior Within of course, but enough to be real looking...
PS i'm still not sure this will be as good as Ocarina though... I'll be extremely surprised... And they've only had from WW's release till now.. 2.5 or so years ain't much. Especially compared to ocarina... I really hope it's not too cookie cutter. Hoping for the best though...
Post by: Ian Sane on February 01, 2005, 12:14:58 PM
Well if anything is going to steal Zelda's thunder it will be the PS3 and Xbox Next which in general people are probably looking forward to more than anything of Nintendo's.
I think the Revolution's unveiling can help bring attention to Zelda if the Rev delivers. If the Revolution just wows everyone then people are going to be paying more attention to Nintendo and thus Zelda will get more attention. However if the Revolution fails to impress well then the usual "Nintendo is doomed" stuff will come up and Zelda will lose some steam.
The media's attitude towards Nintendo is mostly outright apathy. Anything that forces them to pay attention to Nintendo will help the new Zelda.
Post by: norebonomis on February 01, 2005, 12:16:33 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on February 01, 2005, 12:21:41 PM
Oh and I can pretty much garauntee you now that Revolution will not launch with a real Zelda. It's just not going to happen, and if it does it will be disappointing... And just to get it out of the way, Mario 128 is still supposedly "definately" for GCN, straight from Nintendo... Dunno why though. I'd put it on revolution...
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2005, 12:26:41 PM
Maybe because it hasn't been deved to take advantage of the Revolution?
And let's stop with the blood arguments ok? It doesn't add anything, and would only take away a good chunk of sales by making it M...Period...Look forward to plant blood and really nothing much more than that...
Post by: TMW on February 01, 2005, 12:34:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
The longer you make someone anticipate something and the more you improve it inbetween two times you show it, the more incredible the end result will be...So in other words, wait till E3...
and how are they loading up the huge areas shown in that Zelda vid without a harddrive which is also rummored to be packaged in with the next system?
It's called the Nintendo Magic...
To back up Bill's statement...
"Having is not as pleasing as wanting, it is not often logical, but it is often true."
I <3 Spock.
Post by: norebonomis on February 01, 2005, 12:36:09 PM
i agree that we should get more teasers/ trailers of zelda. so the hype doesn't die out.
Post by: norebonomis on February 01, 2005, 12:37:37 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on February 01, 2005, 01:02:30 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2005, 01:08:02 PM
Post by: Berto2K on February 01, 2005, 01:10:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gamefreak
I didn't say make it M rated... Blood doesn't mean M...
Sure buddy....mind listing the games this gen that applies to????? Human/creature blood almost garauntees a M rating.
Post by: Gamefreak on February 01, 2005, 01:41:46 PM
heres a few
...
About 567....
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 01, 2005, 02:03:23 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2005, 02:06:24 PM
Also take into account how realistic the blood is portrayed...A game like Zelda will obviously take a greater risk if it includes blood...
(And funny how when PC games are excluded I only get 173...)
Post by: norebonomis on February 01, 2005, 02:43:47 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2005, 02:48:11 PM
Considering Zelda is a fantasy series, not much...In fact, I think it takes away from the mystique...
Post by: Berto2K on February 01, 2005, 02:51:44 PM
Quote
Metroid Prime 2 Echoes Nintendo of America, Inc. Gamecube Teen (13+) Animated Blood,Violence
Shooting at creatures and seeing green goo doesn't count as blood in my book.
Quote
Baten Kaitos Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean Namco Hometek Gamecube Teen (13+) Blood,Fantasy Violence,Mild Language
I have yet to encounter any blood in the game.
Quote
Kameo: Elements of Power Microsoft Xbox Teen (13+) Animated Blood,Violence
The game isn't even done yet, so the rating isn't official.
I'd wager you could split the list in about half by taking games like the thress above out of the list.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 01, 2005, 03:11:34 PM
Expect a Teen rating, folks.
Post by: norebonomis on February 01, 2005, 04:23:50 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 01, 2005, 04:39:20 PM
This time I figger it's at least partially a result of the fact that I suggested the argument should end, which was the only topic being discussed at the moment.
Post by: Gamefreak on February 01, 2005, 04:43:27 PM
Post by: norebonomis on February 01, 2005, 05:20:20 PM
Post by: TMW on February 01, 2005, 05:35:33 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 02, 2005, 07:45:09 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 02, 2005, 07:49:28 AM
how much I would love to see zelda and mario as soon as possible, why release them on GCN still when it could really help establish revolution???
BTW, this is an attempt to freshen up the conversation/discussion
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 02, 2005, 07:56:17 AM
My guess for the Rev release is late 2006, perhaps September or November...
Post by: vudu on February 02, 2005, 08:35:41 AM
QuoteWasn't Timesplitters 2 rated Teen? And I haven't played it in a while, but I thought there was blood involved. I could be wrong.
Sure buddy....mind listing the games this gen that applies to????? Human/creature blood almost garauntees a M rating.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 02, 2005, 08:40:04 AM
The only concern really is if doing so is going to weaken the Revolution launch. But then we don't even know if there's going to be a new Mario for launch. They might have something different cooking up that could act as a killer app on its own. For now let's just be happy that the console we already own is getting a new Zelda game and likely a new Mario.
Post by: norebonomis on February 02, 2005, 10:55:18 AM
Quote
For now let's just be happy that the console we already own is getting a new Zelda game and likely a new Mario.
haha, YAY ZELDA. after reading that i didn't even want to think of revolution. lets hope june 1st isn't a rumor.
Post by: Gamefreak on February 03, 2005, 03:29:38 PM
Post by: norebonomis on February 03, 2005, 04:38:39 PM
Revolution Launches Xmas '05 ----> Zelda '05 will be released early/mid summer (june rumor)
Revolution Launches later than Xmas '05 ----> Zelda '05 will be released Xmas '05
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 03, 2005, 06:43:21 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on February 03, 2005, 08:02:28 PM
Post by: Dasmos on February 03, 2005, 08:09:45 PM
Is that another "Revolution leak" or just a hunch........
Post by: norebonomis on February 03, 2005, 09:01:47 PM
so take your guesses now because THERE'S ONLY A YEAR LEFT , stfu
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 04, 2005, 03:56:47 AM
Post by: Savior on February 04, 2005, 06:11:29 PM
Simple.
Post by: Nephilim on February 05, 2005, 12:04:55 AM
The dates wont be too far appart if you think of it (zelda and revolution),plus it will take ages for the Pal Version to come out, maybe even 2006, maybe they will releases a version for revolution..a SE type game, with added dungeons and updated graphics
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 05, 2005, 12:18:48 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 05, 2005, 12:26:55 PM
Post by: norebonomis on February 05, 2005, 04:18:08 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 05, 2005, 05:40:58 PM
Post by: Caillan on February 05, 2005, 06:03:10 PM
Quote
Now, who thinks this game will span 2 discs?
It's not like Nintendo to do that, but judging by the quality of the models I think they might have to. They've been working on it since WW, and dungeons are fairly complicated, so I'm guessing each disc will contain the main world and half of the dungeons with their associated models. The problem is that most enemies in Zelda games tend to be pretty universal in terms of placement on the map and in dungeons.
The bonus disc could be the one with most of the past Zeldas on it. AFAIK, not many were distributed. This would annoy me because I traded in my Cube then bought another one to get that disc, but I think it's the most likely option. After two this generation, they don't have much content to draw from to make a new Zelda bonus disc (though LA would be nice.)
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 06, 2005, 10:56:16 AM
its so beautiful, and gives me warm memories when i see screens
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 06, 2005, 11:28:01 AM
Or they could just include the Collector's Edition, because it was so hard to get.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 06, 2005, 11:32:42 AM
(I would personally like a mini-dungeon bonus disc in the style of WW)
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 06, 2005, 11:45:19 AM
That would be awesome... they've already got the engine up and running. I think I might actually like that more than the main game.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 06, 2005, 05:52:00 PM
Post by: norebonomis on February 06, 2005, 07:54:40 PM
i would like a soundtrack, but only if the music is really good, full orchestral and NEW (maybe with the classic zelda theme)
as far as 1disk/2disk/redfish/bluefish, i think that this game BETTER be too big to put on one disc, resident evil 0 was two disks and that game sucked octorocks.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on February 07, 2005, 05:48:36 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 07, 2005, 06:03:09 AM
Aha, what horrible reasoning...RE0 used pre-rendered backgrounds, which take up a hell of a lot of space...And everyone seems to be forgetting that on a technical scale this game isn't as advanced as WW, as for toon-shading you need to make both the 3d objects and then apply the toon-shading textures (eg. takes up more space)...
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on February 07, 2005, 06:52:44 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 07, 2005, 06:54:53 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 07, 2005, 08:20:25 AM
I was thinking how they could include both adult link and young link together in the same game with out going back or forwards though time. Then it hit me, you start as old link but the way you become young link are through memories...imagine this
At the beginning of the game after the historical intro with the cool music, we find Link asleep in his cottage or whatever and we also notice he's the older Link.
*Knocking at the door*
Link! Link! Help the village is under attack!
Link gets up and reaches for his shield and sword. Then his fairy, who should return but this time different in the way that instead of a having high voice (which is annoying) Nintendo gives it a low voice similar to the King of Lions but cooler some how. Oh yeah, he shouldn't be that helpful like the fairy was in OOT and MM. He talks to you and mentions how its been awhile since you've fought, then he asks you if you still remember. This is where it gets tricky. An in game cutscene should take place and some how show Link in the present but at the same time images of himself remembering random stuff when he was a child or a little older, then it should come to a black and white picture of young link. The picture turns into "real" life and the "flashback/memory" presumes. This one with him at a Dojo of somesort training. This way you learn how to fight before you actually fight. After you complete the training. It cuts back to you in the cottage. You run out to find a group of goblins about 100 steps away attacking the village people. This is where the Zelda game changes. Some of the folk are fighting as well, not many but a few, and they continue to fight a few Goblins. They don't kill the Goblins until you kill the horde that you have to attack, but they'll fight them till then.
Zelda is not a hack and slash...I would hate it if it were but some aspects are similar. Now the fight system should change to include kicks and throws ala Soul Calibur. The way nintendo should implement it is by makin one button kick and throws given to the C-stick. You can only throw when you've Z-targeted, this is important...you can Z-target by clicking the L button all the way down, you can switch targets by lightly pressing the L button, and you can un-Z-target by clickin the L button all the way down again. Now when you are fighting a Goblin and the others surround you, a quick sword attack can be used on the other Goblins without un-Z-targeting the original Goblin. How? by flickin the C-stick in the direction of the Goblin you want to attack. If you flick the C-stick in the direction of the Z-targeted Goblin then Link will try to grab him. If successful Link well do a Ryu/ken style throw and throw him behind link, this automatically un-Z-targets the Goblin. When Z-targeting a goblin, and you attack a goblin behind you using the C-stick you can quickly Z-target the goblin you are attacking by lightly pressing the L button. Now, if you where to spin the C-stick in a circle then Link will do his spinning attack, only once though. When link hits a target with his attack, it should slow down in a kind of matrix way, then show the goblin fly back. I want to emphasize the fact that when Link uses magic, the pain it causes his enemies should be apparent. So instead of them flying back the normal distance, it should be exaggerated. Now Link can kick with the X button, but only at the Z-targeted person. Bombs should now be hand-held like grenades, with bigger ones being more powerful. The b button is reserved to your sword attack, and it always attacks the Z-targeted enemy. THis is helpful if you are attacking another goblin with the C-stick and want to quickly come back to the Z-targeted enemy. Combos can be made by hitting B then kick (other kick could be used, i don't know) then maybe bomb. If timed right link will stuff a bomb in the goblins mouth, then if you use the throw, link will throw the enemy behind him and maybe into a bunch of other goblins, where the goblin will explode. Link can also use his bow in combos as well as anything else. I think the new layout should should consist of two item buttons (i.e.for you bow or hookshot, Y/Z buttons). You can set health items and other items that aren't used for attack or exploring to the d-pad. Now this should spice up the fighting a bit. The R button should be used for guard while pressing it all the way down allows for link to crouch. When Z-targeted crouching then pressing left or right allows link to roll in a circle around the enemy. Imagine if link is cornered against a cliff or something he can roll out of the way then kick the goblin off the cliff. Now Combos should be a big part of the fighting, but let's say that when your attacking a goblin, and he only needs a couple hits. Like any hack and slash when your doing a combo, the goblin would die half way through it, making you automatically start attack another enemy.....I don't like that. I think that when you attack an enemy that needs more than two hits, he will continue to get his arse whooped till you stop attacking. This allows you to use him, to kill the others i.e. the bomb throw technique...also what if you wanted to practice, it would be frustrating if they keep dieing half way through a cool combo. Now these combos must be Zelda-centric. Sould Calibur did pretty well in making Link stay Link and I hope if Nintendo trys to use combos they do too..
The flashback method of going between both Links could be used for a number of things. What about if Link is asked for an old Lock number or something that he stole in the past. It cutscene back to when Link was a kid, then you would go through the process of stealing the lock number again, which would use the stealth aspects of WW and maybe more. Then once you get your hands on the lock number then the screen would turn into a black and white photo again then cut back to you in the present, of course now you remember the code. This way a number of missions could be made for just about anything Link can't remember.
Anyways, what do you guys think? maybe I should send this to NOA...
Post by: Ian Sane on February 07, 2005, 08:34:32 AM
Post by: Famicom on February 07, 2005, 04:21:35 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 07, 2005, 04:41:08 PM
Barry? BARRY!?
Post by: Gamefreak on February 07, 2005, 05:40:34 PM
I highly doubt Nintendo will put Zelda on two discs, they will sacrifice textures for one disc.
Post by: norebonomis on February 07, 2005, 06:01:05 PM
i wish that platter-type hard drives would bite the dust already. and optical media. bah, who needs all this spinning? where are the 100 gig flash drives? where are the 2 terabyte holographic storage mediums? that's it i'm building a time machine...
anyways, was anyone else a little disapointed with the enviromental textures (i'm speaking specifically from the trailer) like when it's raining. i mean the water looks awsome, and the sky looks awsome (in case you didn't notice the clouds produce shadows on the ground) but the ground textures look kinda cheap. i guess the gamecube isn't really the best for textures but i mean it's not like this game is being ported to the cube from a system more capable. i'm pretty sure the cube can provide maybe grass covered fields, instead of a big green and brown 2 dimensional plain... but then again maybe this is just because the game was so early. BUT HAVN'T THEY BEEN WORKING ON THIS GAME FOR OVER TWO YEARS NOW? grr. i wish they'd release a new trailer or screenshots.
many pages back we were talking about over-hyping under-hyping, i think nintendo needs to start running TV commercials and teasers now. unless the game isn't going to be that great. but if it's really the answer to our hylian prayers. start the hype. bring it on. Hollywood puts out Movie trailers almost a year and half before movies come out sometimes... where is the marketing?
Post by: couchmonkey on February 08, 2005, 08:33:36 AM
Frankly, I get really ticked off at the never ending stream of commercials coming out of Hollywood, I typically lose all interest in a movie when I have to watch commercials for it for 4 months straight...but that doesn't happen with movies I really wanted to see in the first place anyway, so maybe that's unfair. Anyway, I don't think it would hurt to put out a few ads here and there right now to start getting people's attention.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 08, 2005, 09:59:09 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 08, 2005, 10:34:05 AM
well, i guess we have to face the fact that nintendo never really does things that make sense in the first place
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 08, 2005, 11:38:24 AM
the atmosphere is breathtaking, and thats just a short trailer, I cant wait to play the game, this might be the first game that will stop me going away on weekends
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 10, 2005, 06:42:05 AM
Anyways, I was thinking how the game mechanics could be tweaked. I think when OOT first arrived Miyamoto introduced the best fighting mechanism ever. Screw POP or NG. Sure they're fun but they're focus is on killing everything in the room as quickly as possible. I think Zelda games slowed that down, and allow more strategy than jump slash kick jump run slash slash run kick.
I think there can be even more strategy and timing involved if only Nintendo knew how. What if Link had a parry menouver(sp?)? Let's say that when an enemy attacks, such as a Lizard soldier, you can parry his attack by quickly tappin R (of course at the right moment). If you don't time it correctly you either block the attack (tapped to soon) or get hurt (tapped to late). Either don't help you hurt him. So let's say you finally do manage to parry his move. Many combonations of attack can be made. Let's say pressing kick then slash right after the parry move makes link kick the Lizards sword away then slashes him away with a power horizontal slash. Let's say you slash then kick, Link would use a vertical slash from bottom to top, then would round house the Lizard in the face. Maybe something more complex than two buttons after parry could be used, but I think two would fit Zelda games just nicely. I mean Link isn't the type to weave 6 hit combos like MK. To be fair I think if the Lizard attack first, he should be able to parry after you parried, to give the offense the advantage. If he does parry, you can't parry his attack, but you can block it or roll away from it or even behind him to strike ( but that's a little hard than just blocking the attack). But if you attack first and he parrys then attacks you, you can parry then attack him like you would have before.
I was also thinking what if Link had a dash. By pressing forward forward (holding it on the second foward) then Link would start sprinting. He can only Sprint, let's say 100 steps. Link can change the direction of his sprint but slowly, for if you change the direction to quick, like a 90 degree turn, he'll stop. But how he sprints isn't important as what he can do when he sprints. Maybe pressing kick allows link to slide. Pressing B (sword) allows link to dive/stab tackle. Pressing shield would allow link to dive with his sheild into something (maybe a door?), kinda like a ram technique. I can see many humorous events with that one. Pressing C-stick makes link do a dive tackle, this time grabbing his enemy and tubbling on the ground resulting in Link on top of the enemy with his sword ready, then he slashes the enemy once (or maybe more if you press B). Of course you must Z-target before the tackle, but not before you sprint. Pressing A would allow Link to do a hand spring into a summersualt. I know what your thinking, noone can push themselves off the ground with they're hands into about 8 feet in the air then do a flip. Well Link can, but maybe only after he retrieves some strength guanlet (like the one that helps him pick up huge rocks). Now when Link lands, he should land like samus does, on one knee, just to be cool i guess. Maybe pressing sheild while flipping allows link to lroll when he lands. Maybe Link has to jump over a fire stream only to duck one a little later.
Now this gives link first ability to jump, but at least he can't do it just by standing. I was also thinking what if Links back flip when Z-targeting could have a second variation. Like if you hold the A button down longer he can do a back handspring flip thing. Let's say he's completely sorrounded by some special type of enemy that works together, by attacking together. The only hope for Link to avoid every attack would be to jump completely out of the circle. That's where the super (i don't know what to call it) back flip comes in. What about if Link can't reach a door high above where he stands, but he notices it (with his eyes or something) has one of those grappling hook targets right next to it. It would be cool if Link could Z-target the target then flick the C-stick in the exact opposite direction, making him also face that direction, then back flips and while in the air fires his grappling hook. I don't know if that fits Zelda, but it would still be cool especially if they show some type of different camera view.
I have more ideas like what link's power could be this time instead of wind or time, but I don't want to bore. Maybe it's too late.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 10, 2005, 07:24:20 AM
Anyway, it'd make a cool DS Zelda.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 10, 2005, 08:51:27 AM
It would be a lot cooler if Ninty brought Roc's Feather into the 3d realm... ^_^ And also brought in the Pegasus Boots for your dash idea...
Post by: Peep Master on February 10, 2005, 09:00:28 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 11, 2005, 09:25:13 AM
Post by: norebonomis on February 12, 2005, 01:02:45 AM
Post by: Dasmos on February 12, 2005, 10:52:33 PM
We here is the inside scoop, the goss from my siberian imformant who works within the inner santums of nintendo:
1. Link has THE GUNS!!!111!! - yes you heard it right! you start of with a handgun similar to the one you see pirates often carrying. Then later in the game you upgrade to a Moonraker laser no less. SOUNDS TEH EXCITING!!11
2. Lon Lon Poweras!! When you drink teh Lon Lon Milk Link turns into a cow a grazes the fields of the Lon Lon ranch for eternity!
3. Unlockable Characters - Mickey Mouse is unlockable and PLAYABLE in this new chapter to the series, as is a famous Yellow electric mouse. But i shouldn't say too much.
4. Flying Combat - Link can create duplicates of himself similar to Minish Cap only to use Roc's feather/cape to take to the skies for unreal flying combat. Whoever said Dead Phoenix was dead? It was merely changed to be a part of the new Zelda.
5. Impa's return - Impa returns as Princess Zeldas aid only to be an imformant to Ganon, and not only that but she is his mistress!!!
And the final bit of goss is that the Game is to be linked with PSP version for more hidden features!!! Can't wait......
Hope your satisfied now Norebonomis......I was trying to keep it secret for a while but as you said discussion about CONTROLS is TEH BORINGKK!!!11111 and are not a vital part of the overall experience of Zelda!
Post by: heinous_anus on February 13, 2005, 11:11:27 AM
The only thing I'm really hoping for is an absence of the mooch factor from Nintendo. In other words, I don't want anybody in the game telling me that my gameplay experience can be enhanced ten-fold by hooking up my Gameboy Advance that I don't have. I hope that 100% of the game can be experienced without that particular gimmick.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 13, 2005, 12:09:23 PM
Post by: heinous_anus on February 13, 2005, 07:23:59 PM
Post by: kennyb27 on February 14, 2005, 12:27:38 PM
Post by: heinous_anus on February 14, 2005, 04:18:49 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on February 15, 2005, 02:26:56 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 15, 2005, 02:30:39 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 18, 2005, 08:49:02 AM
Bill's "Hair Theory" is holding up PRETTY WELL YES.
w0t
Post by: Ian Sane on February 18, 2005, 10:02:59 AM
I like how it takes place after Wind Waker for sure. I'd like them to stick with the tradition of Zelda games being in twos.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 18, 2005, 10:33:37 AM
Ian, I could have sworn either Aonuma or Miyamoto has been quoted to say that Zelda will be a worldwide 2005 release, so I wouldn't worry too much for now...*wants Tetra artwork NOW*
Post by: Urkel on February 18, 2005, 07:32:56 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on February 18, 2005, 07:46:46 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 19, 2005, 01:33:04 AM
end of 2005 jap might mean early 2006 in us definetely europe
thats the time when to start saving up for PS3 and GCN
Post by: kennyb27 on February 20, 2005, 11:43:27 AM
Post by: Savior on February 20, 2005, 12:37:05 PM
Post by: TMW on February 20, 2005, 03:18:51 PM
And, they should come with our very own, gold plated "Triforce of Courage"
I would be all over that.
*is not a consumer whore*
Post by: Gamefreak on February 20, 2005, 04:27:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742I was also thinking what if Link had a dash.
lol
They're called the Pegasus Boots.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 21, 2005, 04:49:16 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 21, 2005, 05:11:53 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 21, 2005, 06:02:10 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 21, 2005, 06:08:31 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 21, 2005, 06:23:23 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 21, 2005, 06:42:14 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 21, 2005, 06:54:35 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 21, 2005, 09:51:21 AM
As for puzzles, I'd like to see more of a return to the ingenuity of the 2d puzzles...I believe Ninty was thinking the same thing as they talked about the camera showing a more isometric view in dungeons to mimic the style of the 2d games...This will definitely help create more interesting, and overall, more difficult, yet less frustrating block puzzles (due to not being able to have a good view of the area)
Puzzles that require items shouldn't always focus specifically on the item acquired in that dungeon...(In fact, I think it'd be an interesting twist if you didn't need to use said item at all in the dungeon, yet Zelda vets would still try to use it and against the dungeon boss...)
Puzzles that make you go "Oh! I almost forgot I had that item!"
Puzzles that involve using an item to perform a task that you would never think of...that is, until you used it just because you've run out of options...
Anything that will stump me for at least a few minutes will be gladly appreciated...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on February 21, 2005, 10:08:52 AM
I'm the True Zelda Vet
I'm excited, E3 can't come soon enough. I hope in the meantime tibbits will be dropped here and there.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 21, 2005, 10:14:25 AM
atleast nothing that goes further than, "the games pretty, great, and cool, youll be excited"
E3 will be a overkill of info I fear, all this new stuff to find out about
Post by: SgtShiversBen on February 21, 2005, 10:28:46 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on February 21, 2005, 10:36:30 AM
moooooDarnit we need something more. I wonder how far it's really come since the E3 2k4 trailer? hmm....
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 21, 2005, 10:37:27 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on February 21, 2005, 10:44:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
In fact, I think it'd be an interesting twist if you didn't need to use said item at all in the dungeon
It's funny, as soon as I read that I could picture IGN writing that not using an item you got in that dungeon would somehow ruin the game and drop the score some points (that and not having customizable skins for Link's horse).
Post by: MysticGohan24 on February 21, 2005, 10:47:47 AM
I'm waiting oh so patiently
Post by: PaLaDiN on February 21, 2005, 11:08:44 AM
Post by: Gamefreak on February 21, 2005, 04:03:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
kennyb, it doesn't matter... IGN will score it badly anyway for having no online.
IGN rated Wind Waker 9.6, Majora's Mask 9.9, and Ocarina of Time 10. The only other 10 I can think of is Soul Calibur.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 21, 2005, 05:39:08 PM
Also, the camera in Ocarina was much less dynamic than the one in Wind Waker. I felt the camera in Wind Waker managed to stay in the right place even in very complicated moves, whereas the Ocarina of Time camera would lose track slightly even after a simple roll.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 21, 2005, 05:59:02 PM
Me, I love WW's manual camera. Like in Mario Sunshine, I'm ALWAYS using it. Running, jumping, sailing, flying, whatever. I use it to maximize presentation-badassness-factor.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 21, 2005, 10:01:09 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 22, 2005, 12:45:13 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 23, 2005, 08:36:25 AM
Because I'm bored, things I'm glad to see in the new game (that were in old ones but not Wind Waker):
1. Lizalfos
2. Ground (as much as I liked the water)
3. Horse (though I liked the boat)
What I'm not sure is in the new one but what I'd like to see:
1. A musical instrument (preferably not an ocarina, though)
2. Songs that have a complete version, in addition to the simple notes
3. More towns and NPCs
4. More difficult than Wind Waker
5. SURPRISE, still cel-shaded
Post by: Ian Sane on February 23, 2005, 08:57:01 AM
Yes. The Wind Waker itself didn't make any sense. A baton is not an instrument. Plus the manner of playing it was irritating since you had to have the correct timing so unlike Ocarina of Time you couldn't just mash the buttons as fast as you could. When you have to play songs a lot you want to be able to play them quickly. I'd like to see a new instrument but for some reason I want it to remain woodwind. A recorder like the one used in Stairway to Heaven would have a nice fantasy sound to it.
I want to see the return of Goriyas. Those guys used to be really common enemies in Zelda. How can you have a giant rat that throws boomerangs as a potential enemy and not use it? At the very least they should make one a mini-boss that you get the boomerang from.
I also want to be able to swin like Mario does in his games instead of just floating on top of the water and diving.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 23, 2005, 09:08:12 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2005, 10:00:53 AM
This is the most asinine logic I've ever seen you use...
Magic 8-Ball says the Wind Waker is coming back...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on February 23, 2005, 10:03:17 AM
the baton???
Post by: Ian Sane on February 23, 2005, 10:07:34 AM
How is it asinine? It takes a least about six seconds to use the Wind Waker. Why? Why should I have to enter button commands in a specific timing and watch an unskipable little cutscene every time I want to change the direction my boat is going? It's tedious and makes simple tasks take longer than they should.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2005, 10:20:56 AM
(and I take back my overly harsh words from my last post...Not in the best mood right now)
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 23, 2005, 10:22:48 AM
I don't have a qualm either way, but saying it's tedious is almost ridiculous.
Post by: Caillan on February 23, 2005, 05:08:43 PM
Quote
I think it's kind of selfish to take out the sense of rhythm over such a short period of time "waiting"...
The WW has less of a sense of rhythym than the ocarina because there are only three, four, or six notes of the same duration in a row that can be played. The real Wind God's Aria sounds awesome when played with the correct rhythm but crap with the WW. The Wind God's Aria should not sound crap. With the ocarina you can do what you want. If I'm not in a hurry I'll usually play the songs properly, but it's nice to be able to play them fast when you're bored as well.
Post by: mantidor on February 24, 2005, 03:06:45 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 24, 2005, 06:09:36 AM
Post by: thepoga on February 24, 2005, 03:02:52 PM
Post by: K-RPG on February 24, 2005, 06:39:48 PM
Quote
i would have liked to change the way wind is moved in the boat though. It WAS tedious at a lot of times if u wanted to change direction. I think that while in the boat, u would equip the wind waker to a button and if u hold the button, u could change the wind with the C-stick. Or something like that.
Just like to point out, that we're probably not going to see the "Wind Waker" in the new Zelda. Nintendo knew that fans didnt like the sailing as much as originally planned, and the wind thing eventually just pissed people off.
I would like to see a way to quickly set-up items to the Y, Z, and X buttons. I thought that entering a menu every 5 seconds got annoying after 20 hours of gameplay. Much more annoying than I remember Ocarina Of Time or Majora's Mask being.
Quote
ora Link is best. Way better than the aquatic activities in Mario Sunshine.
Meh. I liked running across the water with the water pack in Sunshine. I had more fun with it than Swimming around as Zora Link.
And for the record, Oni Link was the best.......
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 24, 2005, 07:07:52 PM
Quote
I thought that entering a menu every 5 seconds got annoying after 20 hours of gameplay.
You've never played a 2D Zelda, have you? Switching items in the menu is part of what Zelda is, practically.
Think of it as being realistic, as if you were really needing to take the time to switch out items
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 24, 2005, 07:21:48 PM
Post by: thepoga on February 24, 2005, 08:16:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I don't understand what the deal is with laziness...Why don't they just add an option for the game to play itself for you?
i disagree if you're talking about people not wanting to change the wind in the boat by doing the whole song thing. Having to do so breaks up the gameplay a lot of times, and that's not good for me, you, or world peace.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on February 24, 2005, 10:39:30 PM
all im convinced of is that the songs played by the ocarina in OOT were beautiful
and most of them still sound in my head awakening beautiful memories
I cant remember a single WW song, and I played that game years after OOT
I actually dont remember the excact name of the songs, but who doesnt remember the song for that little green haired friend of link in the forest, or the song to change day and night, wonderful
btw, Link is a Player, in OOT(and other Zeldas probably too), all the women, human or whatever strange creature all fell in love with him
Post by: couchmonkey on February 25, 2005, 04:57:27 AM
But I do agree that changing the wind direction became a hassle. It was a lot better after I finally figured out I could float around by holding R and pressing in the direction I wanted to go, before that I changed it two or three times every time I wanted to sail around an island! Still, a shortcut for changing the direction during sailing would be very convenient.
Ultimately, I'll take whatever Nintendo gives me. I enjoyed both items, and both got a little tiresome when I had to play the same tune over and over.
Post by: kooljake12 on February 25, 2005, 06:38:12 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on February 25, 2005, 06:59:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kooljake12
it comes out 10/1/05
Right...I'm sure it will, because EBGames.com is always right about release dates, especially ones that haven't even been narrowed from "late 2005."
Post by: K-RPG on February 25, 2005, 04:31:00 PM
Quote
You've never played a 2D Zelda, have you? Switching items in the menu is part of what Zelda is, practically.
Think of it as being realistic, as if you were really needing to take the time to switch out items
Yes, In fact I own both the Original and "Link To The Past". It bothers me, but not as much as it did when I was playing wind waker. Im not totally sure why!?
The bow needs analog refinement as well. The Wind Waker had some pretty touchy bow controls, at least a lot more touchy than OoT and MM.
Quote
personally thought the Wind Waker was a lot of fun, it was more mentally stimulating than the Ocarina - most of the time. Now, if I had any musical talent, I admit that the Ocarina would be more fun for just playing with, but I found playing the pre-set tunes to be a mindless memorization task.
But I do agree that changing the wind direction became a hassle. It was a lot better after I finally figured out I could float around by holding R and pressing in the direction I wanted to go, before that I changed it two or three times every time I wanted to sail around an island! Still, a shortcut for changing the direction during sailing would be very convenient.
Ultimately, I'll take whatever Nintendo gives me. I enjoyed both items, and both got a little tiresome when I had to play the same tune over and over.
The Ocarina Of Time was definately more memorable.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 25, 2005, 06:16:12 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 28, 2005, 02:27:10 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 28, 2005, 02:44:03 AM
And I'll just add my anti-angst on Wind Waker's amazing soundtrack, which DEFINITELY fit the game more than OoT's...Wind Waker's title theme, End Credits, and Dragon Roost Island in particular are stlll more enjoyable to me than all of OoT's themes except Saria's Song...
Post by: Ian Sane on February 28, 2005, 06:05:55 AM
Post by: Famicom on February 28, 2005, 06:47:22 AM
I own the japanese OSTs to both of them though, so it really doesn't matter too much to me anyway.
Post by: K-RPG on February 28, 2005, 07:59:44 AM
Quote
Count me in for OoT having the superior soundtrack to WW. I remember one REALLY good and catchy song (and I think it was the Dragon Roost Island song that everyone is referring to), whereas still years after having played OoT there's quite a few songs I remember (and for contrast, there were two songs in MM I really liked). Then again, remembering songs usually has a lot to do with the moments that they are used in, and quite frankly I just plain remember a whole lot more situations in OoT than I do WW.
I own the japanese OSTs to both of them though, so it really doesn't matter too much to me anyway.
Overall, the ocarina songs where much better done than the Wind Waker songs. Although, I will say that "The Wind Waker" has the best rendition of the Zelda theme in it.
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 28, 2005, 08:24:30 AM
Now, I haven't done that with OoT's soundtrack, so I can't really say for sure, but as it is now I like the Wind Waker soundtrack more.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 28, 2005, 01:51:57 PM
You must also realize that the N64 sound processor sucked donkey ****s, compared to the GameCube. So if OOT were to be brought up to the level that WindWaker is at, to be compared fairly, I think OOT would win; even if by a small margin.
If I can ask without being moderated....Hostile C: where'd you get the WW soundtrack? I'd love to hear it since i'm thousands of miles away from my beloved cube.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 28, 2005, 01:54:18 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 28, 2005, 02:02:53 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on March 01, 2005, 04:35:10 AM
As for Ocarina of Time versus Wind Waker, I'd agree that Ocarina of Time is more catchy, but if I went back and played both, I think I'd like them about equally. I was a little disappointed that the Wind Waker's soundtrack didn't stand up to the opening song in terms of the quality of the instrumentation. I love Nintendo's compositions but, after playing Super Smash Bros. Melee and listening to live versions of Nintendo music online, the games could sound so much better. Even with Midi I'm sure they could manage better quality, just look at some of the stuff Rare and Factor 5 have done.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 01, 2005, 04:51:53 AM
Whoa, back up here...You can't be serious...I don't know a single person that didn't realize that Wind Waker's soundtrack wasn't orchestrated...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 01, 2005, 12:43:49 PM
I made a thread awhile ago (like a year ago) about video game music. I also wanted music in games to be taken very seriously, for it does wonders to the end product. I gave an example, Requiem for a Dream I think. That movie was terribly sad all on it's own, but I think what really helped was the intense music and sad melodies. Also, look at Gladiator; the music helped me realize his fate. Same with The Rock. I know all of those are very good movies, but you can't say the soundtrack didn't help.
I think Mario 64 had that. Along with Zelda OOT....MM not as much, but WW had it too in some points (like the Forest Haven). This is off-topic but I loved the music that played in the flying levels in Mario, as well as that level with the eel and abandoned ship. Sunshine had to much tropical based music (I realize that it was based on a Tropical Island, but that was also one of it's flaws). Nintendo made Mario 64 perfect in my opinion. It was exactly what I wanted, a 3-D 2-D Mario. It had the worlds/levels I remember when playing something like SM 3 as well as many other new ones. [/off-topic]
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 01, 2005, 03:26:50 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 02, 2005, 02:12:07 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 02, 2005, 02:29:22 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on March 02, 2005, 05:25:58 AM
On a not-whiney note
there were a lot of things that Nintendo did really well in that game too. I won't deny that the battle music wouldn't be half as cool if it were some pre-recorded orchestral theme. I love the way every blow is punctuated by music, and the way the music changes as Link does better or worse. I also think the way the game uses silence was great: the transition between sailing and landing on an island is barely noticeable but it really changes the mood from adventuring to relaxing or thinking. There are a lot of great songs in the game as well; the sailing theme didn't impress me the first time I heard it but now when it comes to mind I feel like I'm starting out on a journey.
Post by: mantidor on March 02, 2005, 06:57:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
I think Mario 64 had that. Along with Zelda OOT....MM not as much,
I totally disagree, for me Majora's Mask has the best music. I just love the song of healing, so melancholic and sad, funny thing is Saria's song backwards. Seriously the Clock Town theme and how it changed every day sounding more creepy every time was awesome, and the background music when midnight of the third day starts was so moody, I jsut love that game so much.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 02, 2005, 07:53:15 AM
I have to play to be sure, but until I do, I can safely say it's in the top three. Anyways, I don't remember the clock town music changing by each day. I do remember that creepy little town, with the mummy thing outside of the door...that music was on the wierd/creepy side. I have to play it again, for I don't remember. I could very well be wrong about MM not being up to par with Mario and OOT.
Anyways on a different note. Do you guys remember (in OOT) the two iron knuckles guarding the passage to the stairs (which led to Gannondorf) in Gannondorf's castle? I never had so much fun during battle before. It was halarious to hit them both at the same time, and then try to take them out without getting scratched. I would reset my nintendo just to play that part again and again. I was so dissapointed that there wasn't a really powerful unit in WW. The iron knuckles were okay, but once you figured how to take them out they went down quick. Actually same with most of the bosses.....
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 02, 2005, 07:57:48 AM
I assume you mean "Darknuts"...But this is amusing, as Iron Knuckles in OoT are also very easy to take down...Gohma in the Deku Tree is also the most ridiculously easy boss ever...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2005, 08:08:35 AM
In a well designed Zelda game the first time you fight an enemy it should be brutal but once you figure out what to do it should be easy. I felt that Wind Waker for example didn't quite have that as with most new enemies I just waited until the A button flashed and dodged them easily. It was like most of the enemies had the exact same strategy and I could apply the strategy I used for Moblins with most enemies I encountered. The timed dodge probably made things too easy. Those same enemies within the limitations of the N64 Zeldas' fighting system would probably be much harder.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 02, 2005, 08:13:49 AM
You can view all Zelda bosses as having "secrets"...When you are an experienced Zelda player you realize that you need to use the tool you collected in said dungeon to defeat the boss...Because a lot of people gained this experience, the bosses of WW only SEEM easier...Take my sister for example...Wind Waker was her first Zelda game and it took her quite a while to figure out that she needed to use her grappling hook on the Dragon's tail on the ceiling...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 02, 2005, 08:32:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The first time I fought an Iron Knuckle in OoT I thought I was so f*cked. After I beat him I was literally shaking with adrenalin. Of course they became easier once I figure out a strategy. And Gohma is only easy if you think to shoot her eye when she climbs on the ceiling. The first time I played I had no idea I could do that so I had to fight her the "real" way which with only three hearts is reasonably tough. I view the easy way of beating Gohma as a secret. Most people probably don't know about it without a faq. Plus having the very first boss out of of like ten being easy isn't a big deal.
In a well designed Zelda game the first time you fight an enemy it should be brutal but once you figure out what to do it should be easy. I felt that Wind Waker for example didn't quite have that as with most new enemies I just waited until the A button flashed and dodged them easily. It was like most of the enemies had the exact same strategy and I could apply the strategy I used for Moblins with most enemies I encountered. The timed dodge probably made things too easy. Those same enemies within the limitations of the N64 Zeldas' fighting system would probably be much harder.
Exactly how I felt about WW. It was too easy to figure out the easy way to kill them. It usually came down to, "alright, I got this item in this dungeon, so the boss must have a weakness related....I GOT IT!" Overall OOT was hard becuase it was amazingly brutal if you didn't know there was an alternate means to fighting. Then when you know, it's like playing two different bosses. Like the second boss, the big lizard thing...I knew I had to throw a bomb in its mouth, then deal out damage, but after....I RAN MY ASS OFF! I didn't know you could stand to the side (right next to the pit of HOT BURNING LAVA) and watch the big dummy roll by.
I assume you mean "Darknuts"...But this is amusing, as Iron Knuckles in OoT are also very easy to take down...
The first time you faced them, you didn't know what to do. I got hit once and almost died. They were so intimidating. That's a big factor when facing an enemy....an enemy that looks bad*ss usually means that it is. Once you new the timing of things, ya they were easy.....really only cuase they were slow. When you hit both at the same time (like i mentioned), they usually attack when the other is recovering....so it was like facing a faster more powerful Iron Knuckle, which is the hardest enemy I have every faced, even hard then some bosses.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2005, 08:56:10 AM
Well yeah. I knew to use the slingshot to beat Gohma. Her eye turns the right colour right before she attacks so stand still and wait until the very last minute to shoot. Then she'll climb the wall and drop eggs. Destroy the eggs and creatures that come out of them. Then she'll come down and you do it all over again. However her eye also turns the right colour when she climbs the wall at which point you can just lock-on and pelt her full of Deku seeds until she's dead. That was the secret method. If you didn't notice her eye changing colour as she climbed then she was much harder and you were still using a correct strategy and still using the dungeon item.
As Don'tHate mentioned King Dodongo was the same way. The first few times he went by I curled up in my shield and had him run over me. Then I tried running. Then I tried curling up in the corner. Then I realized I didn't even have to use the shield if I stood near the edge. This whole time I knew to use the bombs in his mouth I just didn't know anything beyond that.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 02, 2005, 09:12:51 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 02, 2005, 04:07:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Take my sister for example...Wind Waker was her first Zelda game and it took her quite a while to figure out that she needed to use her grappling hook on the Dragon's tail on the ceiling...
It was the same for me
I can only stare intrigued at all the people that says the WW was ridiculously easy... I never died, but I never felt that there wasnt enough challenge, there are times when you are so overwhelmed by the number of monsters that just keep and keep appearing than you start to think if you might get out of there alive. And I had also a hard time with Ganon's puppet.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 02, 2005, 06:08:44 PM
Every time it got easier. I learned the trick for the spider puppet, I got used to the moblin puppet, I could climb up like an ace, and I could defeat Ganondorf on the roof with relative ease.
But the third stage of the puppet, the worm/snake. . . I swear, that bastard got harder every time I played. Only boss ever that I had a harder time beating it later than I did the first time (where I remember having no trouble at all with it).
Just thought I should mention that.
I don't remember Iron Knuckles particularly exciting me. They were just something I had to fight to keep playing. I like the combat in Wind Waker a lot more. You don't have to use the parry attack if you don't want to, you realize. There are so many ways to fight, it's an absolute blast.
That said, I would like to see at least one terrifying enemy in the new game, one that you're paranoid about fighting even long after you've fought them for the first time.
Post by: couchmonkey on March 03, 2005, 05:27:49 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 03, 2005, 09:14:29 AM
Post by: vudu on March 03, 2005, 09:22:26 AM
As far as music goes, I don't pay as much attention to it as some people around here do. While I always enjoy it while playing the game, I typically forget it soon after. A notable exception to that is the music from the Deku village at the beginning of Ocarina of Time. Sometimes I'll be walking down the hall and start humming it for no reason in particular.
Dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum-da-dum, dum-da-dum-da-dum, dum-dum-da-dum.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 03, 2005, 10:34:30 AM
I honestly forgot about that puppet boss. I remember having trouble with it also, but it's odd how I completely forgot it. It's weird, I remember every single boss in OOT, but I forget the ones in MM (except for some) and WW. The music is another, I can reminder that pretty well cuase...I just love good music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 03, 2005, 10:47:31 AM
I believe that's classified as Saria's Song, Kingvudu. In fact I'm sure it is
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 03, 2005, 10:50:19 AM
Not really, but I'll be really sad!
Post by: Famicom on March 03, 2005, 11:55:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I downloaded the entire Wind Waker soundtrack (would buy it if I could find it and know it wasn't pirated anyway), and I must say it's incredibly awesome.
No pirated material here.
Link to all music Zelda that isn't out of print.
(Exchange rates are in the pits right now so it may be best to hold off on purchases a little while)
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 03, 2005, 06:10:40 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on March 06, 2005, 04:53:50 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 07, 2005, 04:21:12 AM
Come to think of it, Gerudo's Valley was one of my favorite places in the game. Even getting to the valley was fun (having to jump the bridge with Epona).
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 07, 2005, 10:36:51 PM
Post by: Dasmos on March 07, 2005, 10:55:50 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 08, 2005, 05:59:33 AM
I think I preferred sneaking into the Forsaken Fortress to the Gerudo infiltration. I'm not totally sure. The Forsaken Fortress was much more fun and a decent challenge, whereas the Gerudo Fortress was still fun but more of a challenge.
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 09, 2005, 07:27:30 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 09, 2005, 02:57:05 PM
Are you sure?...I can defeat her with a single deku seed in Master Quest, so I can't see her being much easier in the original game...
And back on subject, supposedly we get a new trailer tomorrow sometime during or after Iwata's GDC speech, but we'll see...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 09, 2005, 04:52:18 PM
can't wait, Matt Cassamanfran has been credited along with "other" sources that points to a high chance of this happening tomorrow.
Now where's my cookie?
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 09, 2005, 10:30:09 PM
That trailer better be something speacial. So many people are counting on it to reveal at least SOME details about the game. As for me, I just want something else to speculate over besides what we already have.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 10, 2005, 02:33:35 AM
I hope it's atleast 2 mins long full of the goodstuff
Wishfulthinking
Post by: Artimus on March 10, 2005, 08:36:45 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 10, 2005, 08:59:18 AM
- Link can "boar-jack" Bokoblins
- Link can swim
- Link appears to be fighting a Goron in a clip
- Link can pick up kitties (I THINK THAT IS AWESOME OK)
- Link's parry attack still seems to be included (or perhaps certain moves are part of a new battle engine)
- Stalfos return
- Scary ghost things ;_;
- Spider enemy can wrap Link up in its web
- Link can target enemies with his bow on horseback without going into first-person...
- Wolf howls at moon at end of clip...Wonder what that's supposed to mean?
Overall good stuff...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 10, 2005, 08:59:23 AM
you know how hard it is to type right now!
Post by: Ian Sane on March 10, 2005, 09:21:17 AM
They just showed so much stuff in that trailer. It's unreal. We can easily discuss this until E3. There are just so many bits to analyse.
What I love the most is that this trailer looked more like Ocarina of Time did than the first. A fair bit of people were concerned that maybe Zelda would get too mature and too realistic. But this looks like Zelda. The Goron looks like a Goron, the Stalfos look like Stalfos. There's a sense of goofiness in the whole thing like all the Zeldas have. At the same time the spider looks like a spider should and the ghosts are scary as ghosts should be. There's a really good balance of detail and traditional Zelda style. In terms of appearance they've NAILED it. This is exactly what "realistic Zelda" should look like.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 10, 2005, 09:24:44 AM
- Enemies seem to explode in a flash of light and body parts after being defeated (or at least, the spider does)
- The ghosts look like soldiers, and perhaps an item is used for them to appear (Lens of Truth?)
- You can see some forest guardian giant
- The statue enemy awakens much like the statues in the Tower of the Gods from Wind Waker...
- The Skeleton Beasts actually spray saliva everywhere after you strike them
- Parry attack seems to be...THE DOWNWARD THRUST! (from AoL and Super Smash Brothers!)
- Link has a Fire Arrow of some sort (uses on Pterodactyl-like enemies)
- Link shows emotion and actually looks behind him while running from Gohma...
- Link can destroy Stalfos shields
- Link has a fancy "put the sword away" animation (from the original trailer)
- 1:08 into the trailer, Link "smacks" a Stalfos with something other than his sword...His shield or fist?
Post by: Caterkiller on March 10, 2005, 09:29:04 AM
When Link took a dive, did you notice all the fish swimming about? Or that Link seemed to swim more like Mario(as in swimming where ever he wants under water) instead of strait down then up like OoT? Notice the dragon wings as they glide, the flap of skin flaps realisticly in the wind. The Goron looks amazing, with its yellow markings, im glad to see their back(or at least one with a cooler role) and not wearing anything that covers it up like in WW.
Or how about that red butted ape thing that has the boomarang? Its good to see the enemies can still hit each other.
And finaly it appears that link still keeps his eyes on an enemy and looks around at them as he fights. At least with the gigantic spider I could see that. I would have been very angry if that aspect of WW was left out. But with the same engine how could it?
This one defenitly seems more action packed. But no doubt plenty of great puzzles will be around in the dungeons.
Post by: couchmonkey on March 10, 2005, 09:30:41 AM
I won't get to see the trailer until free-surf time here at work.
*Looks at clock*...one and a half hours to go...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 10, 2005, 10:24:04 AM
Anyways here's some more...
-Link shield can also be destroyed/punched away (look at goron fighting scene)
-Mulitple enemies attack Link at the same time
-An item is used when looking at the ghosts becuase there is a thick yellow path of air that seems to lead to somewhere
-Link has a bomb arrow
-Enemies seem alot harder since they don't wait to attack, they just do it...
-Link can strike enemies that have fallen, but are not dead
-Link turns his head to look at enemies, even if he's not targeting them
-I'm not sure on your previous point about Link being able to lock on to things while riding his horse, but your right about him not going in to FPV to fire his bow
-Link travels to a range of local, but what else is new
EDIT: The goron could very well be training Link. The setting of the fight seems to be in some closed off area. I could be wrong since the Goron doesn't look very happy, but who knows.
Post by: nemo_83 on March 10, 2005, 10:50:54 AM
The graphics were awesome, especially at the end when the wolf was howling. Maybe we will get to ride the wolf.
Doshin the Giant is in the game, that is awesome.
We can ride the boars.
The trees look better this time.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 10, 2005, 11:29:04 AM
Post by: norebonomis on March 10, 2005, 11:37:21 AM
nintendo sure does know how to do water.
i just can't freaking wait any longer. seriously, i'm really going to get on that time machine i've been talking about building.
Post by: Mario on March 10, 2005, 01:14:41 PM
I'll have to watch it more, MORE!
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 10, 2005, 01:17:58 PM
Also, bomb arrows = best.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 10, 2005, 01:24:34 PM
Post by: Polemistis on March 10, 2005, 01:34:27 PM
Hmm, now, is it just me or does this game look a lot like parts from Ocarina of Time / Majoras Mask ?
-The wolf at the end...similar to majora and the moon
-The Goron and Link fighting - Can it be the land of Hyrule?
-The ghosts look like they're in the well from OoT
-The castle - could it be the new kingdom or Hyrule from the past?
-The music at the end of the video - its like mystical, similar to a majora kind of tune, no?
-Huge wide open land like OoT and forests like MM
-And the huge spider is like Gohma from OoT
-Big guy looks like one of those 4 giants from MM
HmMm only time will tell I suppose
NOTE: Heh, ya sorry I noticed some things have been said, I just copied it over from another thread XD
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 10, 2005, 01:42:21 PM
) Oh yeah, I'd like the return of the shovel plz. An underground cavern-like dungeon would be cool, too. As a side note, I really think the environments from Nausicaa would be terrific in a Zelda game, but......no one cares
Post by: mjbd on March 10, 2005, 02:17:58 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 10, 2005, 02:37:57 PM
So Im waiting impatiently to get that trailer, damn! every site offers it in stream, and my conection is so bad that I hardly see three frames before the clip ends, I need a place to download it as soon as possible and I cant find it
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 10, 2005, 02:51:39 PM
If you sign up for the basic gamespot package thing (free, of course ^_^) they let you download all of the videos that they let you stream. Once you get past the initial hassle of signing up everything goes smoothly
Post by: Polemistis on March 10, 2005, 03:04:21 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2005, 03:28:33 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 10, 2005, 03:30:58 PM
Link walks so weird, when hes fighting and going backwards his feet dont move, he seems so stiff for some reason in one of the scenes of the trailer... but anyway I just need to post this:
OMFG THIS GAME IS AWESOME!!1!1!!
sorry...
oh I forgot, I found the direct link to Nintendo's official site trailer http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/52937b07-384a-4364-b8fc-e6f11617d1ab.mov
Post by: Mario on March 10, 2005, 03:53:00 PM
The water looks amazing...
Post by: mantidor on March 10, 2005, 04:12:44 PM
and I also loved how "epona" stepped over the fallen bat-like monster, it was great.
and omg that moon!! those sunsets!! it was really really beautiful!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2005, 04:56:55 PM
OH I DON'T KNOW
Post by: Aussie Ben PGC on March 10, 2005, 05:04:40 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 10, 2005, 05:33:24 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 10, 2005, 06:10:33 PM
If I know which one you're talking about, look at it again... he's fighting on an incline, and one of his knees is already bent as he stands.
Unless you're talking about the fight with the lizard dudes... that's probably an early scene, because if you watch his legs at the scene right after that (the boomer baboon) the animation looks absolutely natural.
Post by: Rellik on March 10, 2005, 06:12:48 PM
Isn't it obvious that that golem-like figure is the Deku tree, in one if his many avatars?
I can't say I was impressed by the outdoor graphics, but the indoor ones were great
. Not that the graphics make too much of a difference to me in this case (or in any case) - what I'm really excited about is that the game looks like it might have a PLOT. Imagine that?! Link to the Past and Wind Waker were both great games, but both of them had stories but not really plots. I'm a plot guy . My two biggest heuristics for game-appraisal are#1 Vibe
#2 Plot
and everything else comes after that. So obviously I'm very excited about this new LoZ - OoT had the copious amounts of excellent vibe and plot (actually MM wasn't so bad in the vibe department either), WW, had the gameplay, and I think this will be the best of both worlds, with something new in the mix.
I wish Nintendo would release more factual details, though - I want an interview! Tell us about the new multi-faceted battle system
give us some shots of Link in a town or engaging in some pleasant, cheerful gameplay hey, you could even harp on about the graphics engine if you really want, just talk to us about it! And in the meantime let's speculate.Definitely Deku Tree.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 10, 2005, 06:19:14 PM
(I personally think Wind Waker's story was overall better than OoT's since it was more down-to-earth and rustic, and didn't have the OMG YOU ARE THE WORLD'S LAST CHANCE vibe...Of course, I still think nothing can touch Link's Awakening's story...)
Post by: mantidor on March 10, 2005, 08:11:32 PM
And I just noticed that the moon seems to be from Majora's Mask, which is very weird, how could it fit in the story? and did you notice the wings of those dragon-like things waving in the air? they werent stiff wings like we are used too! it looked so awesome!, this game is just so, so beautiful I feel I cant bear it.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 10, 2005, 09:23:04 PM
It just happens to be a massively massive moon, they like those in Zelda
I'm doubting it's the Deku Tree, per se, but it's something of that nature. The cats seem to gather around that hollowed-out tree, where that thing is, or so it appears.
Post by: Mario on March 10, 2005, 09:31:24 PM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on March 10, 2005, 10:21:00 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 11, 2005, 03:10:29 AM
Now Im almost sure that moon is from MM, in the trailer the moon is so bright that we cannot see its details very well, but when it fades to black at the end we see this:
http://img193.exs.cx/img193/459/nuevo13vq.jpg
It looks better in the trailer, but trust me I cannot forget those creepy eyes, why the hell MM got an E rating? that moon was so scary! >_< maybe it was the fact that it looked a lot like Freddy Krueger, my childhood monster (I even had a nightmare with him, now thats scary)
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 11, 2005, 03:13:11 AM
(And I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying this looks like LotR, because it DOESN'T)
Post by: mantidor on March 11, 2005, 03:19:48 AM
)
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 11, 2005, 03:38:16 AM
All you are seeing on the moon in the trailer is just random craters
Post by: couchmonkey on March 11, 2005, 06:09:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That looks NOTHING like the Majora's Mask moon...
(And I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying this looks like LotR, because it DOESN'T)
Sing, it, brother! Just because Lord of the Rings is the only fantasy movie anyone has seen doesn't mean it inspired the game. Jeez. Though I will agree somewhat with the comment someone said about Lord of the Rings inspiring the fantasy genre as a whole.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 11, 2005, 06:37:59 AM
So what can we speculate from the trailer regarding the story? If it truely is the continuation of WW, then I don't know what to think. WW was all water and little islands....in this clip, we see all land and barely any water. If the water had dried up, It wouldn't make sense to see thick forests since forests take more than ten years to grow. My guess is this Zelda revovles around Link travelling to a far land or something, not unlike MM.
Graphics? They are spectacular....I especially like the scene where Link is fighting the two Stalfos. If you notice in the background, you can see the light break through the trees and highlight spots on the ground. I was a bit skeptical when looking at the lighting during that tree-giant scene, but now I know that it's used throughout the game. The scene where he picks up the cat also proves this. One complaint I had was that the Lost Woods in OOT, weren't woods at all. This Zelda seems to be a step in the right direction regarding thick woods and such.
Battle Engine? Well it looks like Link has tougher competition. When looking at the scene of him fighting the two Lizardos, they look relentless. Always advancing, and never waiting. Personally I like it. WW was to much of a "hit b a bunch of times, then hit A once in a while." Nothing against it, I enjoyed the fighting alot, especially with other's weapons. This Zelda though, to me it seems to more tactical. It might not be, but looking at this trailers proves that battle is a bigger part of the game. I like how he can use his shield to hit enemies while guarding at the same time. I also think the horse-back riding battle engine doesn't include a lock-on. To me it seems as if Link aims carefully, during the scene with the dragon like creatures flying over head, before firing his arrow. This is great becuase I enjoyed using my skills to bring down bats and such in OOT.
I don't know....your thoughts?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2005, 10:46:01 AM
A-HA IT'S ALL CLEAR TO ME NOW!
Link retrieves cats and delivers them to Doshin cuz Doshin was HUNGRY!! PIECE OF HEART GET!! SCOOOORE!!
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on March 11, 2005, 10:57:37 AM
Post by: Rellik on March 11, 2005, 11:20:41 AM
I see what you mean about the moon, from that screenshot. I'm going to say it's 50/50 that they're significant, rather than just random. They certainly don't look unintentional, but I wouldn't say it's out of the question.
I hope there won't be an ocean of land in this new one like there was the ocean in WW. The ocean was fun... as a concept for a single LoZ game, same as MM was fun for a single LoZ game. I like the idea of some substantial riding/exploring, but I wouldn't want the kind of massive overworld WW had, where the world was made of little pieces that are connected by vast stretches of boring. OoT's overworld I'd say had the right proportion of size to content: add more significant towns/dungeons/areas accessible from the overworld, then the overworld should be of a size to accomodate it.
As for the battle system, I guess I'll be the first in this thread to say that the horse-back battles look fairly lackluster, at least visually. The way the steeds collide is not terribly convincing, and the lack of detail on the plain they are generally riding over is somewhat suspicious. Big flashes of red light don't really improve the situation. The enemies themselves don't seem to take much interest in Link besides crowding around him and punctiliously swiping at him. I'm sure it will be fun, though.
I don't really have any doubts that it will be a beautiful game visually, have amazing music (maybe they can find a better soundset this time - GC must be able to hold larger samples?), and will be a blast to play. My only concerns are about everything else.
Someone else commented that they like how a Zelda game is one that really doesn't take itself too seriously. While I agree to an extent, I think that Zelda can be extremely serious about itself at times, to great effect, because at other times it can be a great, relaxed and humorous experience. That's the beauty of it - Ocarina of Time captures the perfect balance of adventure, relaxation, humor, and "epicness" that a huge faction has craved ever since its release, and has only been equaled/paralleled in that time by games like Skies of Arcadia and... uh, Skies of Arcadia is my only example of a game that can equal OoT in vibe, but I've heard good things about plenty of PS2 games.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2005, 12:01:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rellik
As for the battle system, I guess I'll be the first in this thread to say that the horse-back battles look fairly lackluster, at least visually. The way the steeds collide is not terribly convincing, and the lack of detail on the plain they are generally riding over is somewhat suspicious. Big flashes of red light don't really improve the situation. The enemies themselves don't seem to take much interest in Link besides crowding around him and punctiliously swiping at him. I'm sure it will be fun, though.
Why riders would want to collide with other riders/animals, I don't know. Unless you meant in a 3D object in a virtual environment sense. Plains are probably dedicated to the riding aspect, to allow for lots of travelling space and larger bunches of enemies on-the-go, and not on-foot adventuring. On the flipside, the on-foot stuff we'e seen is generally crowded with architecture and not suitable for riding. In this new trailer, they didn't even show Link swiping at other riders, unlike the last trailer. But each of the little Bokoblin guys did make an effort to fire arrows at Horse Link.
The on-foot enemies are plenty interested in Link, see, they swipe at him cuz they want to kill him and have a barbecue. To be interested in other things besides hurting Link would make them... boring?
To comment on the trailer file, Nintendo has been getting better at encoding video, little by little. However, the video footage in this trailer was TOO BRIGHT, UNDER-SATURATED, and LOW IN CONTRAST. Effectively, a lot of textures and detail were washed-out in scenes that were well-lighted (daytime horsing).
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 11, 2005, 01:57:01 PM
Bomb arrows are the coolest, one of the best returns of an item I've ever seen.
Cool coincidental capture
Bill made a lot of observations we already shared and discussed quite a bit. I'm really wondering what the Goron is, whether it's an enemy or someone that will become your friend (fighting to prove yourself type of thing).
The field seems massive, I wonder how that's going to work. I also like the look of the forest, much more natural. That one hollow tree is definitely an important spot, what with that unusual creature (presumably friendly) and the cats, not to mention how distinctive it is compared to the other trees.
Okay, now I'm thinking the castle is inhabited, but exists as a fortress, a stronghold against the wilds. I figure it's inhabited because it's pretty well lit at night, when the trailer starts.
I'm curious about the oily-looking creature in the woods, too, the one with the long arms that was in the first trailer. Looks pretty cool. Also, the first trailer seemed to suggest something of a war, whereas this one is more prone to wild enemies that are less organized (though the first was still very tribal and wild). I'm willing to bet it's more like the second, but we can't dismiss the possibility of a goal-oriented enemy. Perhaps trying to conquer the aforementioned castle-fortress?
More later.
Edit: After checking the video step by step in quicktime, it certainly seems as if the horse is jumping over the body of the fallen bat-dragon. I'm not 100% certain, but the legs seem to lift up differently (all at once), so it looks a lot like it.
Post by: vudu on March 11, 2005, 04:48:50 PM
If there is speach, should Nintendo not put subtitles at all, just to piss of Paladin?
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 11, 2005, 04:53:49 PM
Why the hell should they do that? Screw IGN.
I'd prefer them to keep text, personally, and I suspect that they will.
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 11, 2005, 05:05:06 PM
Ouch.
Nah... Nintendo's been good at putting in subtitles.
Post by: Savior on March 11, 2005, 06:05:30 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 11, 2005, 08:46:36 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 11, 2005, 10:27:44 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 12, 2005, 03:21:22 AM
-Link kicks up dust/grass when he runs some place
-When ever Link strikes, it lights up the surrounding area (nice touch nintendo)
-When things die, they give off smoke, light, as well as big chucks of mass (I have no clue....look at it with quicktime).
Post by: CHEN on March 12, 2005, 03:22:28 AM
Post by: mjbd on March 12, 2005, 07:16:06 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on March 12, 2005, 07:33:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
Noticed a couple things graphic wise
-Link kicks up dust/grass when he runs some place
-When ever Link strikes, it lights up the surrounding area (nice touch nintendo)
-When things die, they give off smoke, light, as well as big chucks of mass (I have no clue....look at it with quicktime).
Take a look at Wind Waker again. I'm pretty sure all of these details were there, and this game is running on the same engine.
Post by: Renny on March 12, 2005, 09:23:55 AM
The shadows look very good. Every enenmy has a detailed shadow that rotates and morphs perfectly to nearby light sources, including the attack effects. They all seem to have self-shadowing, too. Maybe someone with more [read: some] knowledge can expound on the subject.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 12, 2005, 09:40:36 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 12, 2005, 12:02:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BloodworthQuote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
Noticed a couple things graphic wise
-Link kicks up dust/grass when he runs some place
-When ever Link strikes, it lights up the surrounding area (nice touch nintendo)
-When things die, they give off smoke, light, as well as big chucks of mass (I have no clue....look at it with quicktime).
Take a look at Wind Waker again. I'm pretty sure all of these details were there, and this game is running on the same engine.
I found it hard to believe that this game was running on the Wind waker engine, but after looking carefully I found this. And the purple smoke was another proof. I think Ill miss the awesome dust and smoke effect from the Wind Waker, but they dont fit this new game. Seeing that "realistic" dust is kind of boring after seeing the one in WW, but Im sure Nintendo will add some other beatiful things to look at (like that moon O_O, I just love it!, an I still think it has eyes Bill
).
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 12, 2005, 01:25:10 PM
Did anyone know why Nintendo decided to include those big shards of mass in the explosion? The only thing I could think of was enemy interaction with the explosion. Since it's hard to see those chunks of matter unless paying careful attention, I think they "hit" the other enemies allowing for more precise reations. That was just a load of crap....
If you don't see what I'm talking about look at mantidor's post above.
Post by: mantidor on March 12, 2005, 02:35:37 PM
I also think that what the trailer shows is still an early stage of the game, and the trailer just hints us about posible things, if you look back trailers for OoT and WW were very vague also, for me those big cell-shaded chunks are just a minor error of the engine that honestly I only noticed because I wanted to see that scene frame by frame to see in detail the awesome animation of those creatures, and also wanted to see if they were casting a shadow on Link in addition to the ground. Sadly the trailer quality doesnt let you see that clearly.
Post by: Michael8983 on March 12, 2005, 03:11:25 PM
I think we can pretty much assume this game is going to be a side-quest in the vain of Majora's Mask so having it take place in the same alternative world with a familair Link makes sense as I'm sure Miyamoto wants to wait and reveal a new Hyrule and a new Link in the next "main" Zelda title on the Revolution.
Post by: Michael8983 on March 12, 2005, 03:27:54 PM
There's no way a scene like that would be included in the trailer if it wasn't really important. I somehow get the feeling it's not evil though. I think the wolf will end up being Link's ally. Between it, the scene with the cats, and the return of "Epona", animal interaction looks like it might be a major factor in the game. It might be this games "wind".
I think those are definitly eyes on the moon too upon further examination.
If that were a photograph of the actual moon I'd say it was people's minds playing tricks on them but this is a VIDEO GAME. Every line, shade, and crater on that moon was intentionally put and those are clearly intended to be vague shadows on the moon's eyes in Majora's Mask.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 12, 2005, 03:37:08 PM
My capture is better
I suspect that this is a new land is the place they've found, and may very well be essential to the plot. Maybe not as much as Wind Waker was, because it was a major progression, but I think it'll push it along more than Majora's Mask. I think he's in the same universe and that it's a different Link (as in it's probably Wind Waker Link) and horse. I'm definitely interested in how it'll turn out. I'd be just as excited either way.
In addition:
I think the eyes could be intentional, it's possible (if the effect isn't random), but it's as likely to be some sort of homage to Majora's Mask as an actual plot factor.
The wolf I do think is important. What if Link can transform into a wolf? I thought about it, and it occurred ot me that if that did happen, that unusual crest of land the wolf is on in the trailer is probably significant as well. Link can only turn into a wolf there, and at night, and that will add strategy to the game much like the special stump locations in Minish Cap.
Or it could be some sort of NPC, as well. I can't wait to hear more about this
More worth noting:
Take a look at this screenshot: Old Moon
It's an older screenshot depicting the moon without any sort of distinguishing marks on it. There's no sign of the moon being the one in Majora's Mask, and I think that if it were a major plot point they would have had some suggestion of it early on. The large moon is either coincidence or at least not plot-related.
Also, I've been wondering about something in the baboon miniboss (which I'm assuming it is) scene. When the baboon throws the boomerang at Link, it misses him and hits the evil plant things. But as it hits them, Link leans back at of the way, and I can't tell whether he's getting hit or if Nintendo has included something else. Maybe Link is moving out of the way, to make the fact that he wasn't hit seem more realistic. He may be reacting to that happening so close to him.
I'm not sure, but it's been bugging me.
Post by: Caillan on March 12, 2005, 03:50:15 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 12, 2005, 07:23:00 PM
one thing Im sure is that the trailer wasnt put together carelessly. Every scene was carefully edited to show us enough info to get us all hyped up, but not to much to still have some surprises at E3. is it the moon from MM? to tell you the truth every time I rewatch the trailer Im more doubtful, because it just doesnt make sense to have a moon with a face, except if they really intend to pay some homage to MM.
and also I really dont think this game is in the lines of MM, as in it is a side quest with few references to Zelda an Hyrule. This has all the looks of being the epic Zelda game everyone expects, with Ganon, Zelda and Hyrule.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 12, 2005, 11:46:20 PM
NO?!
"Sense of loneliness" -- it's a an excuse to downplay NPC interaction *o* YES haw haw haw haw haw
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 13, 2005, 03:01:01 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on March 13, 2005, 06:10:28 AM
The Gamecube already got the epic Zelda game with Ganon, Zelda, and Hyrule.
I just can't imagine that Nintendo would make this anything but a side-quest. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with side-quests. In fact I think in a lot of ways Majora's Mask surpassed OOt and that moon creeped me out more than Ganon ever did. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the game had a better story and villain than any other Zelda game to date. Side-quest really isn't the term we should be using. More than unique-quest as opposed to the same old rescue Zelda and beat Ganon thing. I think Zelda and/or Ganon will at least have a cameo though. Zelda had one in Majora's Mask and Ganon sort of made one in Link's Awakening.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 13, 2005, 06:21:03 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 13, 2005, 06:21:29 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 13, 2005, 07:13:07 AM
Post by: Rellik on March 13, 2005, 08:03:49 AM
I mean, it's "the spiritual successor to OoT." Hyrule castle is there. The world seems to be vast. There are roving armies of Moblins everywhere. It just doesn't add up to be a sidequest (as MM or Link's Awakening are sidequests). It looks more to me like it will be even less of a sidequest than WW was, even though it takes place directly afterwards.
Yeah, I hope they don't abandon the great town/social aspects that were present in OoT - after all, it IS the spiritual successor. WW didn't have enough NPC interaction for my tastes, although it had more than for example LttP.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 13, 2005, 08:37:26 AM
Post by: TMW on March 13, 2005, 08:43:42 AM
==
On an another note, that trailer is frelling awesome. Some truly creepy animals and creepier ghosts (although I don't think you can call the four legged skellington thingies animals). The music is awesome...it's all adventerous and big, with a hint of Zelda in there at certain spots.
As for the wolf, the kitty, and the fact that Link is riding the enemies animal...I think Mike8983 may be on to something. This games special item will be something that either allows you to speak with, or befriend animals. Which would totally rock five times from Sunday.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 13, 2005, 08:54:06 AM
I do not think this will be a sidequest, like MM and LA. I don't expect it to be as big as Wind Waker, though. I expect it to land somewhere in-between: it will be significant to the plot, but I don't think it's going to involve the usual elements (Triforce, Zelda, Ganon). We'll have to wait and see, though.
We're also making a lot of assumptions. Based on the fact that Majora's Mask is a sidequest, after OoT was an epic game, doesn't mean that this will be a sidequest after the epic Wind Waker. One occurance is not enough to predict a pattern, and even if it were the pattern could change. I also don't know what the spiritual successor bullcrap means. I doubt it'll be any more similar to Ocarina of Time than to Wind Waker. They're all very different games, in a way, created with that Zelda spirit, which makes them very similar. The fact that they look the same doesn't mean much at all.
I'd count on heavy animal importance of some sort. . . transformation, interaction, something along those lines. It seems to be stressed in the trailer, and there's a strong presence. I'm really looking forward to E3.
TMW, I don't remember if Aonouma said it was Wind Waker Link or not. I know he said it was a true sequel to Wind Waker, which could mean that, but I don't remember him outright saying "The is the same Link". He could have, but I don't recall.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 13, 2005, 09:27:38 AM
I can't see the transformation thing happening. Unlike MM, that stuck with transforming into charachters previously setup by OOT, a transformation into a wolf wouldn't fit anywhere. I could see Link transforming into one of those eagle-beings from WW, more than I can see Link turning into a wolf. What gameplay mechanics could be made using a wolf that can't already be incooperated using Link and his horse? Also wouldn't Link the wolf have the trade marked hat? That would just look goofy. I think communicating with animals is a better guess, though I can't see that as a major gameplay factor since he already can. He talked to a fish in WW for god sakes. Link meeting a wolf clan or something similar to the Goron clan would be cool. He could then ride a wolf into batlle.......ahahah. This game has the potential to be so weird and un-Zelda like.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 13, 2005, 09:52:00 AM
Stop the second trailer at 32 and 34 seconds. It should be the scene with the fight against the boar skeletons in the graveyard. I noticed, as I was watching, that there were characters on the gravestone, and I could see them when Link hit the skeleton and when the lightning flashed (the two time spots I gave you). It closely resembled Hylian, but The Perm informed me that there were two Hylian scripts, old Hylian and Modern Hylian, and gave me a link to a page with both. Old was used in OoT and Modern was used in Wind Waker. After closely examining the gravestone writing, I saw this:
At first, it seemed simple enough to be Old Hylian, but I could only see a little bit and it was unclear. The closer I looked, I realized that it had characters that pretty much exactly matched Modern Hylian. I can say pretty confidently that it's Modern Hylian (or, as Perm suggested, an even newer form of Hylian).
So, I kinda doubt Hyrule's going to rise out of the sea or anything. But this brings up other interesting questions: how long have those graves been there? Who put them there? Where the heck is Link?
Or this could be completely irrelevant
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 13, 2005, 10:17:19 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 13, 2005, 10:35:51 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 13, 2005, 10:40:45 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 13, 2005, 12:13:05 PM
I agree with Don'tHate742, we have to think that gameplay comes first than story for Nintendo, so a transformation thing can be not likely, and Nintendo without a doubt will make storyline plotholes even bigger if it helps the gameplay to be better. For example I really dont think Aunouma an Miyamoto sat down and say "lets make a game about a moon thats going to destroy the world!", Im sure it was more like:
- lets make a game where the player interacts more with the NPC! but how do we do that?
- lets make Link help them in their daily activities! we can have like a list of requests from them.
- cool! but what if the player fails to acomplish his request?
- oh right, he or she couldnt be able to try again...
- unless we give the posibilty to Link to travel back in time
- thats right! but it seems complex, we need to give Link a reason to take the trouble of going back in time
- how about if the world is about to be destroyed, then he has to do things before this happens
- oh, that would be nice...
And what about the puppies (maybe wolf puppies) that appeared in the first batch of screenshots, do you think the decided to change it to cats? or maybe they are using both? Im hoping for both ^_^
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 13, 2005, 12:19:14 PM
I've said this before (not sure if it was here), but I really want some cool NPC-to-NPC interaction, and that includes animals. I think it'd be awesome if upon walking into town I see all of the NPCs going about their lives instead of just standing in one spot. NPCs could "talk" to each other, rumors could spread, dogs would chase cats (cuccos chase dogs plz ^_^), etc. It would really bring the whole world to a new life. It was done to a minor extent in MM, but I want something more fleshed out and "alive" than that.
Oh hay, there's a special-fantasticle edition of this game. So I'm guessing that there isn't going to be any preorder bouns, because you'll preorder as a guarantee that you'll get the uber-edition. I'm positive that the special edition will be gold. I'm willing to bet that it'll also include the average "special edition" inventory, such as an art-book, a "History of Zelda" booklet, and mayhaps a "Making Of." But what I'm really hoping for are the two dungeons they left out of WW.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 13, 2005, 02:08:21 PM
THINK ABOUT IT
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on March 13, 2005, 05:39:22 PM
All this has got me thinking. If you look back at all the recent major Zelda games released on N64 and Gamecube, Nintendo always implemented a multipurpose instrument. OoT and MM had the Ocarina and WW had the baton. For the sake of arguement, lets say Nintendo were to continue this tradition with the new Zelda. What if, instead of Link transforming into animals (as some are debating around the internet) Link can use a flute (or any other instrument) in order to control animals. What if by playing a specific tune, Link can calm a specific beast. This could serve many purposes. Link can use a dog to fetch items. A wolf could be seen as an upgrade from a dog whereas it could fetch but it can also assist you in battles. I'm sure we can all think of many different animals and their uses if we run with this idea. Also, I bet Nintendo can build some clever puzzles around this premis. Remember, WW let you control other characters in dungeons. What if this is an extention to that. Either controlling the animals or giving them a set of commands using the direction pad (similar to the visors in MP)
Post by: mantidor on March 13, 2005, 05:51:40 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 13, 2005, 06:06:38 PM
Some sort of cooperation seems possible, though. I'm pretty convinced it'll have something big to do with animals
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 13, 2005, 07:35:22 PM
Mantidor - How could you not want an instrument? It's one of the best things in OOT/MM. Learning/Playing songs was OK, but I loved listening to the full melody once played.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 13, 2005, 07:59:11 PM
(I so want an art book with the Special Edition copy)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 13, 2005, 09:05:38 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 14, 2005, 06:04:06 AM
anyway...Its not that I dont want a musical instrument, but I dont want it to be the main item for the game, probably I just want to avoid comments on forums about how Zelda is not "original" anymore or something like that
.And remember that what Aunouma said its just a RUMOR. Theres not even an interview of some kind to back it up, so dont lose your breath on this one, Id be very shoked if there aren any towns or NPCs, I find that actually impossible.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 14, 2005, 07:41:45 AM
So would you rather have a staff or something?
EDIT: Is anyone expecting the unexpected here.....besides me?
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 14, 2005, 07:50:04 AM
A Link to the Past: Mirror
Ocarina of Time: Master Sword and Ocarina
Majora's Mask: Masks and Ocarina
Wind Waker: Baton (and boat, I guess)
Minish Cap: The Minish Cap
It wouldn't be unreasonable if it weren't a musical item, though thus far all of the 3D games have had the musical item as a focus. If this game did tend toward wilderness, I could imagine Link having one of those horns, like a hunting horn. If not. . . some sort of weapon, perhaps. Some artifact. It's hard to think of something appropriate from a primitive culture, if that's what we're dealing with. For now I have to assume that, otherwise my speculation would be too broad
Post by: mantidor on March 14, 2005, 07:51:30 AM
Post by: vudu on March 14, 2005, 08:52:37 AM
QuoteI'd like to wield the banjo of tranquility. Or maybe a nice mouth harp.
So would you rather have a staff or something?
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 14, 2005, 09:31:30 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2005, 09:58:45 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 14, 2005, 11:23:57 AM
In what way is Miyamoto still involved with the Zelda games? Like, exactly what does he do?
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 14, 2005, 11:29:28 AM
Post by: wandering on March 14, 2005, 01:09:47 PM
I had to chime in on the trailer, which was amazing. The thing that's really impressing me is how organic the environments are looking,so much better than WW in that regard. The thing that excited me the most though was Link's boar riding. (Nintendo, if you're listening, I really want to ride a dragon in this one. Or an eagle, if you want to go LOTR on us. Speaking of which...)
To the people who say this doesn't look like it was inspired by LOTR: I don't think it looks anything like Peter Jackson's movies visually/stylistically, BUT, Zelda has never really reminded me of LOTR before, and while watching this trailer, I couldn't help but think of the paths of the dead,the warg battle, nazgul, shelob, and treebeard. (Whoa, run-on sentence).
Also, to the people who say they don't like the idea of the game feeling more lonely, I actually disagree with that too. Mainly because I felt alone in Wind Waker anyway: the NPCs weren't people so much as annoying robots existing solely for Link's benefit. I'd prefer it if they fixed the problem and created complex NPCs of course, but...I can wait for Revolution Zelda.
The question is, why is Link more alone in this one? Maybe the world is more overrun with enemies than normal, with people struggling in isolated pockets rather than living in thriving towns. Maybe the world doesn't have any people at all: nothing but animals, creatures (such as the gorons), enemies and abandoned/overrun towns. Or maybe, in this one, the population considers Link to be an enemy for some reason, with animals being his only ally. That would explain the Goron fighting him.
Post by: Rellik on March 14, 2005, 01:44:10 PM
But I still would rather not see a lonely-style Zelda. I mean, that's Metroid territory, and I love Metroid (mostly... couldn't finish MP2:Echoes, just wasn't fun enough) but the Zelda series has become more and more interaction-oriented, to the point that it's just part of the Zelda experience now. Not much of it in the original, then increasing up til OoT/MM where NPC interaction was a vital part of the gameplay experience and really fleshed out the gameworld with colorful characters and interactions.
A lonely Zelda is by nature a continually serious Zelda. Of course there are always lonely stretches and sections - but the world of Zelda is a populated one.
And I feel like bringing this up for no reason, but I really dislike it when people say Zelda is "about a boy facing dangerous adventures." Yeah, it's about a boy, and dangerous situations, but that phrase and its variants make me think of a lot of really bad movies from the 90's. Zelda has never really been about Link - Link is there really only as a stand-in for you, and his age is largely a non-factor. I don't know what Zelda's about, but I wish there were a better way to make the point that it's supposed to be humorous and light-hearted without in the process saying that it's campy, kitsch, flippant, and of little account to itself.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 14, 2005, 02:17:18 PM
Of course, if you only played the main game there's a lot less interaction. If you only do what you need to, dungeon dungeon dungeon. But I did pretty much every side quest and extra bit available, so I witnessed tons of good NPC relationships. I also felt many of them were much more sincere than previous game had been. I felt more for Aryll and the two Rito kids than I ever felt for most other characters. Except for maybe Saria and Marin, but that's hard to beat.
As for being lonely on the see. . . yeah, at times, but appropriately so. I visited characters here and there often enough that I never felt truly isolated except in places like dungeons.
I think this game could be positively lonely in a lot of places. But I feel there should be NPCs, and probably will be, I'm just not sure how everything will work out.
I say that Zelda is about adventure, plain and simple. Sometimes it's the childhood sense of it (and not the corny 90s movie sort, either) and sometimes it's more general. It's just always given me that awesome feeling of adventure, and I find that summing it up in that one word works fairly well for me.
Post by: nemo_83 on March 14, 2005, 04:14:58 PM
http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=np_gw&message.id=586763
what does this mean for the game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2005, 04:33:50 PM
Post by: Bloodworth on March 14, 2005, 04:35:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kingvuduQuoteI'd like to wield the banjo of tranquility. Or maybe a nice mouth harp.
So would you rather have a staff or something?
OH! I KNOW! Link could carry around a grand piano!
Seriously though, I don't think you'll ever beat the Ocarina. It's been in far too many games and is just the kind of fantastic instrument that fits in.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 14, 2005, 04:37:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
did anyone notice this?
http://forums.nintendo.com/nintendo/board/message?board.id=np_gw&message.id=586763
what does this mean for the game?
Return of the Water Temple? REALLY intense weather effects? Or perhaps this is the draining of Hyrule. I was always disappointed that there wasn't a huge new world to explore under Wind Waker's waves.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 14, 2005, 04:48:26 PM
It could be a dream-esque sequence, Link seeing something in the past with the creature, a la Scrooge. (I'm thinking this not only because of the water, but the sunlight is so bright and soft it almost seems surreal)
There's something large at the bottom of the area in the water-filled picture, but I have no idea what it is. It could be blocking something, and somehow removing that drains the area.
That or else you fall in the pit, go with that thing to the end of the tunnel, and something happens. It all floods and you get back out (presumably after having learned something or acquired something useful).
Just a few ideas.
Post by: Caillan on March 14, 2005, 05:13:41 PM
Also, the curve of the left branch is clearly different, and the angles of the joints look slightly skewed.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 14, 2005, 05:18:03 PM
1) A "mini-puzzle" that involves draining said area (by removing the debris in the bottom of the pond
or
2) Ninty reused the tree model, which isn't out of the question at all...It saves time and most people don't care if environment models are reused in different areas of the game...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 14, 2005, 06:45:46 PM
I'm going to look a little harder. *whips out magnifying glass a.k.a bottle of whiskey* One thing is for sure, it's not going to be part of the main game in the story or as a plot line. Right now, I think Bill has the right idea with his #2. I mean they have to cut corners somewhere.
EDIT: Callian - Your point about Link diving down to deep is irrelevent. First of all, we don't have a good perspective on the distance he travels while diving. Second of all, from the screen shot of that tree beast type thing, that place is HUGE. Look at link.....he's tiny. Maybe not tiny tiny, but he's small enough for that area to be considered as a pond/small lake.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 14, 2005, 06:51:55 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2005, 07:10:39 PM
I dub thee forest giant, SWAMP THING.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 14, 2005, 08:58:09 PM
I noticed that Hyrule or whatever will have a river.....like a big river, where you need a bridge or a snorkel for "epona" to get across it. Look at :30, all the way in the background you can see a gurge (sp) of some kind, and I am almost positive it is a river, especially because it curves and bends. Also notice in the Goron fighting scene, there seems to be a village there. If you look in the background you can see a weird shaped builing and some siluhettes (sp) of buildings.
When Link is riding his trusty boar (1:14), there is a huge hill with a sharp point indicating a forest. It is especially larger than the hill seen at 1:11, with the same remincent point. How do I know it's larger than this hill? Well for one thing, you can see three tree shaped figures to the left of the point indicating that unless those trees are mammoth in proportion, it must be a small hill. The other hill though (1:14), is huge! You can see bumps on it telling you that it has many trees, and since it's so far away, yet even bigger than the hill of 1:11, it most definitely most be a huge mountian hill forest area....thing. Do you think this is where the wolf was when it howled?
Post by: Caillan on March 14, 2005, 09:28:32 PM
Quote
First of all, we don't have a good perspective on the distance he travels while diving. Second of all, from the screen shot of that tree beast type thing, that place is HUGE. Look at link.....he's tiny.
I didn't express myself very clearly, sorry. In the tree shot, the ground begins at the bottom of the cave. You can see where and how big the cave is in proportion to the tree. Though you cannot tell how far Link dives down, you can see from the position of the two branches that there should at least be the top of the cave showing. To my intuition, Link should be near the bottom, but that's just me I guess.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 14, 2005, 10:09:32 PM
In conclusion, Link barely reaches the top of the archway/cave opening, which isn't even halfway down to the "real" bottom (SWAMP THING screen shows a nice flat floor, but the Watery Jungle-ish screen shows tons of crap in the bottom blocking much of the archway). Link will command the animals by throwing cats into the action as bait incentives.
Post by: Caillan on March 14, 2005, 10:18:52 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 14, 2005, 10:23:21 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 15, 2005, 01:59:30 PM
* that ganondorf will be in the gamehttp://imdb.com/title/tt0441877/
imdb is not the kind of site you would go to get info on games, but their databases are always accurate, and for what Ive seen so far imdb isnt the kind of site that would put false information.
Just a reminder, but this doesnt mean there will be voice dialogs, since the same actor has already participated in previous Zelda games, they just need them to do the grunts and yells and things like that.
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 15, 2005, 02:08:34 PM
According to that site, though, he was "voice" in Mario Power Tennis, and I refuse to believe that the annoying announcer in MPT is none other than Ganondorf.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 15, 2005, 02:17:35 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 15, 2005, 02:48:47 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 15, 2005, 02:52:41 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 15, 2005, 02:54:22 PM
I think it would be really funny to find out about the actors who do the voices in games, the could easily play two completly different characters and we wouldnt even have a clue that its the voice of the same person. They are voice actors after all, it wouldnt look so good for an actor like that to only have one type of voice.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 15, 2005, 02:54:30 PM
Miyamoto came up with it
Im sure Bloodworth or Rick can confirm it
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 15, 2005, 02:57:00 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 15, 2005, 03:01:15 PM
There you have it, Ganondorf Dragmire
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 15, 2005, 04:09:32 PM
I really don't like the fact that he's got a last name. It just makes me all.....squirmy. I liked "Link, Zelda, Ganon[dorf]." If you wanted variation, just add a prefix (Pupput/Phantom Ganon, Shadow Link, etc). Bleah.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 15, 2005, 04:29:22 PM
Not to say Ganon won't be in it, but I highly doubt he will, and I wouldn't count this as being a reliable source.
Dragmire is a pretty cool name, though.
Edit: Also, it seems Nobuyuki Hiyama has quite a long and prestigious record of making noises for characters in video games.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 15, 2005, 08:43:14 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 15, 2005, 08:54:15 PM
Post by: wandering on March 16, 2005, 03:20:29 AM
Quote
but their databases are always accurate, and for what Ive seen so far imdb isnt the kind of site that would put false information.
eh. imdb is notorious for essentially posting any information/rumors/random guesses they come up with without any confirmation.
I can't imagine Ganondorf not being in this one, though.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 17, 2005, 01:51:58 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 17, 2005, 05:48:51 AM
Post by: norebonomis on March 17, 2005, 09:05:42 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 17, 2005, 10:42:46 AM
Post by: Savior on March 17, 2005, 11:30:26 AM
They interviewed Matt fom IGN though ...
Post by: vudu on March 17, 2005, 11:38:45 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 17, 2005, 11:47:39 AM
1 - Legend of Zelda
2- Adventure of Link
3 - Link to the Past
4 - Link's Awakening
5 - Ocarina of Time
6 - Majora's Mask
7 - Oracle of Ages
8 - Oracle of Seasons
9 - Wind Waker
10 - Four Swords Adventures
11 - Minish Cap
12 - Legend of Zelda GC
Post by: mantidor on March 17, 2005, 11:56:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Savior
They showed Icons Legend of Zelda on G4 a couple of days ago... It was great. I still hope Nintendo would do something like that for the release of the game
urgh, Matt... anyway I would love to see the show, but I dont live in the States, all I get here is a "making the game" special in MTV LA about halo 2
One thing I can be sure about the new Zelda is that its not a remake of OoT, its getting really annoying reading in many sites and forums that it is, I cant recall riding a boar and picking kittens in OoT, much less wolfs and exploding arrows.
Post by: vudu on March 17, 2005, 11:56:55 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 17, 2005, 12:08:30 PM
Post by: Savior on March 17, 2005, 03:34:59 PM
But the rest was great. Loves Shiggy explaining how Mario was created as you moving with your body, while Zelda was more of a mind game... Great stuff. Or how Shiggy asked the team to make a Zelda game in 1 year, and thats how Majoras Mask time mechanic was created?
Post by: mantidor on March 17, 2005, 06:55:14 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 18, 2005, 11:21:50 PM
~~~~~
I hope Nintendo puts in a credits sequence in this new game that showcases all the enemies/characters and locales (real-time plz), just as they did with a lot of their N64/SNES titles. The FMV staff rolls in Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker made me sad. *o*
Post by: mantidor on March 19, 2005, 04:50:12 PM
and to keep things on topic do you think that Zoras will be back in the new Zelda? it has a chance to happen, so far weve seen that finally Link can go underwater again without problems.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 19, 2005, 05:00:54 PM
Not really, if you think about it...The Great Water was poisoned, which led to only monsters being able to survive in it...That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Zoras returned, but I'd love to see some evil River Zoras make the cut as well...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 19, 2005, 05:07:59 PM
The evil alter ego of Zoras
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 19, 2005, 05:21:33 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 19, 2005, 06:38:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"out of all races the zoras had the more chances of surviving the flood"
Not really, if you think about it...The Great Water was poisoned, which led to only monsters being able to survive in it...That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Zoras returned, but I'd love to see some evil River Zoras make the cut as well...
That makes even less sense... I know, Zelda's timeline is like, inexplicable... but thats just absurd, if what the godesses wanted was to seal evil under the waters, why use poisoned water that actually kills everything exept the evil?... I have a question though, the waters being poisoned are actually mentioned in the game or its just a theory? I cant recall them being mentioned at all, all they say is that the waters have no fish to catch, that really doesnt mean the were poisoned, its just a posibilty, one that doesnt make sense.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 19, 2005, 06:50:02 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 19, 2005, 07:12:06 PM
I really wish zoras to come back, just imagining them swiming in that awesome water makes me drool, but thinking about it they are extint, that makes them less likely to appear in the next game, why would they returned? it again makes no sense...and Bill you talk like if there were evil zoras in the previous Zelda games, they were? >_< crap, my memory is failing too much these days, and I replayed OoT and MM only a few months ago.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 19, 2005, 07:35:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 19, 2005, 08:12:06 PM
It was the language barrier, in the NES and SNES, Zelda was never popular here because of the english text, so my first experience with Zelda was with OoT, since my english skills were already acceptable by that time, and sadly in this moment I cant afford a GBA. I recognize those guys now, since Ive recently start to play the first LoZ with... emulators, >_<
If only Hyrule was flooded, it would be posible for the Zoras to have survived, but I always though that it was the whole world that got flooded, since Tingle descendants appear in the WW, while he was a Termina habitant, not Hyrule's... of course you can make other explanations for this, liike Tingle leaving Termina.
Professional, I missed your other comment before, it would be nice an eding like OoT, or specially MM, that was so touching and emotional for me, seeing all the people you helped happy after having acomplished your goals.
Post by: attackslug on March 20, 2005, 04:45:49 AM
I really want to place a preorder for this and be a complete b-hole about false advertising, fraud, etc., when it comes to light that these guys are advertising a (bad) joke as truth to increase sales.
Post by: Savior on March 20, 2005, 05:29:24 AM
But it wont be the EGM April 1st Gag
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 20, 2005, 05:38:16 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 20, 2005, 08:11:33 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 20, 2005, 08:21:36 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 20, 2005, 01:32:14 PM
The next Zelda will have a strange atmosphere where your worst enemies could finally be your best friends, and your best friends could also turn to be your worst enemies.
I've been wanting this sort of thing for years, so here's hoping it's true!
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 20, 2005, 01:48:32 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 20, 2005, 01:54:34 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 20, 2005, 03:35:30 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 20, 2005, 08:17:31 PM
Post by: chaos on March 21, 2005, 01:52:52 AM
Quote
out of all races the zoras had the more chances of surviving the flood
Actually if you remember being older Link in Ocarina of Time you would notice Jabu Jabu was gone, and also remember that Zoras received their Scales from him (the silver scale won in the diving contest), now in The Windwaker Valoo is their new guardian and the Ritos receive their scales from him which gives them the ability to fly (Prince Komali), so thats the real reason I suspect and also allows for the possibility of faster evolution. Hope that helps!
Post by: attackslug on March 21, 2005, 02:14:40 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 21, 2005, 02:25:21 AM
Post by: Smashman on March 21, 2005, 07:11:15 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 21, 2005, 07:12:29 AM
Post by: vudu on March 21, 2005, 08:42:55 AM
I'm playing through Wind Waker again, and I just noticed that the Traveling Merchants are actually Gorons. I completely missed that the first time though. I just wanted to see if anyone else noticed this.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on March 21, 2005, 08:54:57 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 21, 2005, 09:28:05 AM
Anyways, I really hope that if the Zora's are gone, that at least....AT LEAST they include an item that upgrades the swimming experience. Well, really only if the swimming aspect is a vital part of the game, which it definitely could be. I can see Link swimming in a pretty big body of water, to get to a mysterious island that is right in the middle of this lake. And this lake, is surrounded by land. So it's like a circle within a circle........sort of.
whatever.....it'll be playable at E3, that's all I gots to say.....
Post by: vudu on March 21, 2005, 10:49:42 AM
In the Nintendo Gallery, their favorite food is listed as "Rocks".
Post by: Smashman on March 21, 2005, 02:40:45 PM
One thing I hope they do is make the world completely cohesive, Like LTTP. OoT and MM had all of the places divided up. OoT had Hyrule Field, and then everything felt unnaturally "placed", as it branched out of the field (not really that big of a flaw). Same with MM. tWW had all of the islands in one square, and one island in each square, in the CENTER of each square (again, not really a flaw).
I hope this game is like LTTP's overworld, and has the entire world in one place, and not divided up into squares or the OoT and MM "transition" between going from place to place. If so, then that will be a definite plus.
Hell, a 3D LTTP would be SO awesome, too.
I really can't decide between LTTP and OoT as my favorite Zelda, but I like them both about the same (OoT beats LTTP in some areas, and vica versa). However, I think OoT may just SLIGHTLY edge LTTP out. One can dream this may just beat both of them. As I said before, *looks around to make sure Bill isn't in sight* I hope it makes up for tWW. Man, that game SUCK--- *Bill appears out of nowhere, and chases Smashman around the forum with the Never Happening Hammer.*
I was JK about tWW sucking. It didn't. Just a very big disappointment for me. It was still a fairly solid game. I mean, it had a ferris wheel for god sakes.
Don't whack me in the head again, Bill. I'll be good.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 21, 2005, 02:59:01 PM
But you make a good point about the "flow" of the overworld...It'd be interesting if Ninty could place villages/dungeons out in the center rather than having you leave "the circle" to reach a destination...I also hope to find more NPCs out on the overworld as well...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 21, 2005, 03:42:45 PM
If the horseback regions indicate anything, there may very well be a "Hyrule Field" that's divided from other points of interested via a loading transition.
Otherwise, we'd need either
1) game pauses for in-game loading (yuck)
2) Loading barriers like Metroid Prime's doors (like waiting a second for an apartment elevator to arrive, without taking control away from you)
3) Twisty boring corridors of NOTHING like in StarFox Adventures (what a waste of time)
To rid the loading transitions completely, without compromising the detailed level design in some way, would be a friggin' amazing technological achievement. Not happening this generation, i think.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 21, 2005, 03:47:33 PM
Post by: Robotor on March 21, 2005, 04:10:41 PM
But man, this game looks great. What was that weird shaped think walking by Link in the forest during the video?
And furthermore, Wind Waker was awesome, second to Link's Awakening. Additionaly WW had no hub, and every island wasn't in the center of the square.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 21, 2005, 04:47:28 PM
Post by: Dasmos on March 21, 2005, 06:33:20 PM
It wasn't a ferris wheel it was a wind mill....wind moves it.....hence enforceing more that the game ahs a wind element
Post by: SgtShiversBen on March 21, 2005, 07:58:40 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 22, 2005, 01:31:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
I was JK about tWW sucking. It didn't. Just a very big disappointment for me. It was still a fairly solid game. I mean, it had a ferris wheel for god sakes.
It wasn't a ferris wheel it was a wind mill....wind moves it.....hence enforceing more that the game ahs a wind element
Oh, there sure was a ferris wheel attached to the wind mill...
Post by: couchmonkey on March 22, 2005, 05:42:16 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 22, 2005, 07:49:36 AM
I know Nintendo will do what they need to, to make the game feel the way they want it to. If WW was any indication, I think Nintendo knows what the hell their doing when it comes to load times (when it comes to everything for that matter).
Post by: Smashman on March 22, 2005, 01:30:27 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 22, 2005, 01:54:06 PM
Post by: Rellik on March 22, 2005, 04:18:50 PM
After all, it uses the same engine - you can see the same hazing effects and architecture in the distance, billowing clouds, lightning, that's all part of WW's loading and traveling scheme. Personally, I've always been extremely fond of "hub" system from MM and OoT
I just don't see the WW system working on land. Unless there's a major modification, or there is some already in place capability that allows the engine to deviate from the "squares" concept into a more free-form, unstructured collection of themed areas/towns/etc, then I think it really wouldn't work out. The 2D Zeldas got away with it because the screen was rectangular by nature. WW got away with it, and barely, because of the incredibly cool although tedious water-travel system - it was their solution to forming land-masses and it was pretty lame but acceptable because every island had something relatively cool on it, which made up for the fact that the overworld as a whole was extremely lame.
There's no ocean in between the areas on land, so it's not allowed to be lame on the whole and just have interesting little tiny bits spaced uniformly. And that's why I have no idea what kind of overworld system they're going for
Post by: mantidor on March 22, 2005, 05:53:01 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 23, 2005, 02:04:28 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on March 23, 2005, 10:31:10 AM
While I agree Nintendo might be working within the restrictions of the grid system and it will probably result in something a little different than the N64 games, I don't think it's impossible or even particularly hard to set up a good land-based game using the grid.
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 23, 2005, 11:08:39 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 24, 2005, 08:44:41 AM
I've always wanted Zelda games to have a bit more action. I'm not talking about more fighting, for fighting doesn't add much depth. I'm talking about situations that Link is put through to recieve an item, or accomplish a task. I think two good examples are diving off a waterfall, and racing goron-style.
For some reason or another, I get all giddy when I play mini-games like that. In WW, the gliding tournament was great. In OOT, the horse-back racing was sweet. Anything really that has Link doing crazy stunts or participating in games with NPC interaction, would add alot of depth into a "dry" world.
More NPC interaction is always better in my opinion.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 24, 2005, 08:56:01 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 24, 2005, 12:19:25 PM
I hated that........it was just so redundent. Going back and forth, from town to town, got tiring.........quick. I'd like it if the mini-quests we're one or two step related. MM realized this perfectly, with most masks being a one or two step process to capture. Some were longer, but it was very forfilling due to the need to pay extra special attention during NPC communications, and even more attention to the time. I think upgrading your sword is another perfect example.
Come to think of it, MM had some of the best, if not the best side-quests/missions.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 24, 2005, 12:22:14 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 24, 2005, 12:24:47 PM
EDIT: Bill beat me to it..
.
Post by: nemo_83 on March 24, 2005, 12:33:23 PM
"KA Monthly recently had the chance to sit down with Nintendo producer/director Eiji Aonuma, who discussed with us some interesting details concerning the forthcoming Zelda title for the Gamecube.
The game, a sequel to 2003's smash hit The Wind Waker, will feature a new Link, one "whose personality thrives on his emotions." The game is also said to be more character-driven, with "Link having a deeper and introspective personality," one that reflects "the sheer magnitude of his determination and sense of solitude."
Gameplay elements were also discussed: "The game will feature an even larger world than the previous titles, so exploration will be the key." To traverse this vast land, Link will now have to set up camp and rely on a magical item: the reins of sorrow. "Link's new friend is a horse named Poseidon, whom he saves from drowning in a flood caused by a terrible storm. On Poseidon's back are the magical bridles, the reins of sorrow, which allow him to transform into various beings." Some 'beings' mentioned were an eagle and a wolf.
More details on The Reins of Sorrow will be reported as soon as they come in. Expect a summer 2005 release for the Gamecube."
Summer 05 sounds like that one fake pic that had a release date set for May and four player mode.
I'm glad they didn't make this a werewolf game because I would rather see an entire game devoted to such a character. I wonder if there will be continents on the ocean or if the entire map will be land. I hope this rumor is true because I have always wanted to fly in Zelda. I always thought they would do a dragon instead of a big bird.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 24, 2005, 12:38:45 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 24, 2005, 12:39:05 PM
Post by: Savior on March 24, 2005, 12:47:38 PM
Id rather see Link have something of an expanded magic system than changing into werewolfs, bears and tigers
Post by: nemo_83 on March 24, 2005, 01:01:00 PM
Only on an online forum would someone read that and turn it into emo Link. They are trying to depthen the characters. Look at the conflict in the Ganon character in WW. This will not just be a flat dark Zelda, but a Zelda that has deep development of character. That is what is making it more adult. The maturity is not just going to be an asthetic, hopefully. We will nolonger have the perfect goody goody Link or the eternally evil villain.
Gaming is taking steps towards literature and movies. Next gen the consoles will be powerful enough to handle the facial animations for in game speaking.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 24, 2005, 01:36:19 PM
The horse changing though, is a very interesting prospect. What could be done with such a thing? Why would riding a wolf be better than riding a horse? Can you control Posiedon (cool name) while not riding him? Hmmm....interesting indeed.
Anyways, I like the idea of Link having more emotions just as long as it doesn't step over the "line". I don't want to see Link bawling, or throw a fit. I want to see Link smile, show glimpses of fear, be shocked, and show determination. Again, I'd much rather have Link show reaction emotions (like he did when being chased by spider-Gohma), then showing deep human emotions. Link's not a sissy, nor is he great a showing his emotions......they should keep it that way. The other charachters are open-game.
Bill - Oh that's what you meant by trading quests. Awesome, just awesome. I loved the semi-timed nature of OOT. It was a challenge but you definitely reaped the benefits. I mean come on........the Biggoron sword was so freaking sweet! That's exactly what I meant by NPC interaction.
Post by: nemo_83 on March 24, 2005, 01:55:16 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 24, 2005, 01:56:56 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 24, 2005, 02:37:34 PM
*Starts own rumor*
I heard from this guy *looks around* that uhh......the next Zelda right........aside from being freaakkkkking sweet harharhar, Link will use like.....umm....like umm.....a flute of some sort! And this flute has the special power of like...ahhh.....changing TIME! Crazy right......I heard that from this guy. IT"S LEGIT IT"S LEGIT!
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 24, 2005, 02:41:16 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on March 24, 2005, 02:48:22 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 25, 2005, 01:25:40 AM
Bill - Thanks........I feel very stupid right now.
It still doesn't make sense. Why would the tether to the horse be magical? It's like making a magic saddle which is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
Musical items have been the land-mark for 3-D Zeldas, and they should keep it that way. I geuss they could have an instrument and somthing else magical ala MM, which would be cool, but reins......that's horrible.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 25, 2005, 06:05:49 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on March 25, 2005, 02:57:53 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 26, 2005, 08:15:13 PM
Post by: Dasmos on March 26, 2005, 10:53:27 PM
I think link should have one of those small guitar like stringed instruments...........the buskers i've heard sound cool and it would kinda suit the theme...
Post by: AennilQ on March 27, 2005, 06:34:35 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 27, 2005, 08:46:30 AM
Only if done well would it be awesome. For some reason, this Zelda makes me think that voice over could be more plausible. We've already seen Link have real-time facial emotions, so what's stoping the other charachters from emoting as well, and even speaking.
The thing that makes me think it's not plausible, is the fact that WW had a perfect emotions engine, yet voice over wasn't implemented, and this is also a Zelda game.
Post by: Artimus on March 27, 2005, 09:25:14 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 27, 2005, 01:31:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
The original topic on this rumor was posted 11/01/04. I am not going through every single page to find out if anyone was able to confirm that its information was fake. There are fourty something pages for this particular topic. All I know is that the information was closer to what they showed at GDC than any other specualtion leading up to it. The flooding, the boar with the same gear as the horse, and the wolf at the end of the video.
not to mention, that the horse has a trident as a symbol, which happens to be the symbol of the greek god Poseidon. Epona is also a god, a celtic godess to be exact.
It fits extremely well with the official trailer for being a rumor, but Im almost sure that such interview was debunked some time ago, all I can say its an amazing coincidence.
And also I wouldnt want voiceovers, in another forum someone brougth up an interesting thing: having text is like reading a book, as in you imagine how the characters sound, the moment they speak, the magic is lost, and it will most likely be dissapointing. It can only work if the voice overs are absolutely amazing, and done by professional actors, which of course its just common sense, it cannot work any other way.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 27, 2005, 01:38:02 PM
Oh nice, I no longer have to respond to the idea of voice acting...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 27, 2005, 02:17:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I think going text would be a big mistake. But going with BAD voice over would be worse. If they did amazing voice over then it'd be the best game ever (not saying it won't anyway). It's not like Link talks, so he wouldn't need lines.
Link always talks, you just don't hear him. When asked his name, he has to reply somehow unless he writes it down and holds up a sign that nobody sees except game charachters. I admit, if they did voice-acting, they wouldn't have to give Link a voice, but the fact is.......he does talk.
As for your comments Mantidor about Zelda being like a book.....no it isn't like a book at much as you'd think. We hear grunts and laughs from some charachters that automatically carry over while we're reading the text. Besides accents and such, there isn't much left to the imagination. I think those little tid-bits of voice acting is enough to satisfy me, but I can't help be think that giving Gannon a voice would add depth to his evil demeanor.
The problem lies in fitting charachters with good voices, as well as good actors. Not to mention the horrid localization process.
It makes you wonder if Nintendo is localizing as we speak. I can't remember where I read this information from, but I can recall someone saying the this Zelda is finished in terms of gameplay. Again, it makes you wonder
Post by: Caillan on March 27, 2005, 03:10:35 PM
Post by: Rellik on March 27, 2005, 03:18:14 PM
Whether the interview happened or not, there seems to be some evidence that is nearly impossible to call a coincidence... good thinking on the trident thing.
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 27, 2005, 03:22:09 PM
As for Tales, the acting was satisfactory (it's not an american accent to me ). No VA is good enough for Zelda though, so I too hope that it will remain text-only, with some grunts or woooAHHH?!??!s thrown in for good measure.I'd like to see something like the gold skutullas or seashells in the new game. Some nice collectables that aren't forced upon the player. Hmmm.......collecting kittens? ^_^
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 27, 2005, 04:30:59 PM
By the way:
Quote
Maybe link could have a range of instruments ala DK64.....i could see it happening..not
You mean like they already had in Majora's Mask? Ijit.
Post by: Dasmos on March 27, 2005, 07:54:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Trade in kittens for Nintendo Gallery statues. The more kittens you exchange, the higher the chance of recieving a new statue.
By the way:Quote
Maybe link could have a range of instruments ala DK64.....i could see it happening..not
You mean like they already had in Majora's Mask? Ijit.
Twas a joke.........sarcasm....i always knew you can't write sarcasm
Post by: Savior on March 27, 2005, 08:05:32 PM
If only to quiet guys like Tommy Tallarico, and Matt from IGN. I want this game to get 10/10 from all websites, and become the 1 ranked game at Gamerankings.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 27, 2005, 08:08:29 PM
You changed your avatar, so I didn't notice it was you. If I know who the person is I have a better idea of if they're kidding or not. You just phrased it very serious sounding
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 27, 2005, 08:12:18 PM
I don't want voice acting, good or crappy. I think lack of voice acting is cool because it provides a gap for your imagination to fill... sort of like a book. It's no fun when designers dictate every detail of their world to you.
Post by: IceCold on March 27, 2005, 10:50:23 PM
My cousin has a very monotonic voice - a bit like a robot. The lack of emotion when he speaks never fails to surprise me. Because of this, when he is being sarcastic, you really don't know that he is. This is definitely to his advantage, because when he says something really sarcastic, no one knows whether he actually means it or not. So, whenever he uses sarcasm, he can say that he actually meant what he said, because no one knows the difference. The murder that he gets away with is truly amazing
On another note, my favourite sarcastic comment of all time has to be:
Mother: Trust me, (insert son's name), you'll thank me when you're older
Son: Ah, the old "You'll thank me when you're older" phrase. Number seventeen in the Big Book of Parental Clichés.
I made that up myself - I'm so proud of myself lol
...Damn anecdotes - they get us so off topic
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 27, 2005, 10:54:50 PM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on March 27, 2005, 10:55:51 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 27, 2005, 11:02:28 PM
Post by: Dasmos on March 27, 2005, 11:25:30 PM
I think if there is voice acting in Zelda it needs to be done by Sega..........their voice acting is great!! for instance SA2:battle and F-Zero GX pure euphoria for the eardrums.................
Howzat for sarcasms!!!
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 27, 2005, 11:54:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Truthliesn1seyes
Like others have said, everything thats not included ingame is left to the imagination..
Of course the argument could be made that you might as well just imagine the whole video game.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 28, 2005, 01:23:20 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 28, 2005, 07:33:30 AM
No it's not!
ahh....everybody's a comedian.
I don't know why you guys are putting so much interest and discussion into voice acting. It doesn't matter at all. Tell me, what do you remember most from Zelda games? The in-game cutscenes or the freaking gameplay. You never know, in-game cutscenes equipped with voice acting might be nice, but it might be terrible. Just leave it at that, because in the end.....it won't matter.
Post by: Caterkiller on March 28, 2005, 07:42:24 AM
Post by: IceCold on March 28, 2005, 08:02:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
But ether way im happy.
Yes, I think we all will be either way..
Post by: couchmonkey on March 28, 2005, 10:41:19 AM
I'm also all for not having voice acting, personally, I don't care that much, but I do feel like Nintendo is stuck in the 20th century sometimes. We can sit around consarning video games for changing like my dad does (every game should be like Adventure in his books) or we can play them and have fun!
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 28, 2005, 02:44:52 PM
The emotions engine looks great. Link responds to situations according to how we would respond. If they can some how get it to the point of WW, that would be fantastic.
Anyways, I remember talking about how cool it would be if Link traversed back in time through memmories. Though it seems I was way off, do you think Lil' Link will be featured in the game? Is it even possible considering this is a true sequel?
Post by: mantidor on March 28, 2005, 04:40:59 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 28, 2005, 05:58:20 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 29, 2005, 10:27:48 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 29, 2005, 10:52:45 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 29, 2005, 11:09:31 AM
I think it stems from the fact that Zelda is now a pretty old series so a lot of fans are stuck in this rut regarding their expectations. Whenever people talk about upcoming sequels they almost always mention old stuff they want to see return and make big assumptions regarding "traditional" elements. When something is known well enough people get this formula stuck in their head and can't seem to get out of it. It's Zelda so it must be in Hyrule and have Ganon and have some sort of musical instrument, etc. Developers do it too. Capcom's Zelda games for example have a lot of the same music, areas, items, bosses, etc from older Zelda games. Although the Capcom Zeldas are great they've fallen into the trap of seeing the series as a formula as well.
If anything I find that with Zelda you can't assume much aside from very bare-bones stuff like the main character being Link and there being a sword item of some sort for attacking with. There have been a lot of examples in the main series of unique stuff just coming out of nowhere. Wind Waker's art style for example is an obvious example. So assuming anything like the game taking place in Hyrule makes no sense.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 29, 2005, 11:19:59 AM
I expect Nintendo to reuse some elements that we don't expect. In Majora's Mask there were many similar characters, despite it having a radically different setting, plot, and mood (though MM will doubtlessly had it more than this will, MM being an alternate dimension situation). I think we'll see some characters returning, but only a few, and maybe some enemies (we've seen Lizalfos, Stalfos, bokoblins, and such, and we'll definitely see octoroks: another reliable Zelda tradition). Nintendo is unpredictable in what they include in the game for the most part, because while they do often pay homage to all the previous games in the series by using old characters (they should so have I AM ERROR in this game) and certain items and enemies, it varies from game to game and new elemnts are constantly being thrown in. I expect we'll be surprised by what the new one has to offer, but not too surprised because we expect being surprised like this when it comes to Zelda.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 29, 2005, 11:41:25 AM
You need to play Minish Cap...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 29, 2005, 11:54:50 AM
I am and so far I'm loving it. It's doing a better job at being unique than the Oracle games were but I find that there are a lot of elements from other Zeldas in it. A lot of the characters designs for example are ripped right out of Wind Waker like the kid with the runny nose. This doesn't make it a bad game or anything though.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 29, 2005, 02:51:42 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 29, 2005, 02:56:26 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 29, 2005, 03:47:12 PM
Post by: Savior on March 29, 2005, 03:53:24 PM
Anyways, I can see both sides on the Zelda argument, personally i wouldnt mind some changes though. Sure its called Zelda, doesnt mean you have to save Zelda in almost every one. Thats kind of why i liked Links Awekening and even Ocarina of time, both had important female characters that werent zelda.
Post by: Bloodworth on March 29, 2005, 03:57:12 PM
Post by: IceCold on March 29, 2005, 04:26:08 PM
Post by: Chris1 on March 29, 2005, 04:34:58 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 30, 2005, 04:40:24 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 30, 2005, 05:21:12 AM
Post by: Rellik on March 30, 2005, 01:50:27 PM
man was that boringAnyway, I've never had a problem with Zelda's being similar to each other. I mean... it's a series. I don't expect anything radically different. The reason series' are so popular is the element of continuity - it's a feeling you get from playing a game that follows and has features from a previous one, that you don't get with one-shot games. And it's not boredom. But anyway, that's why Zelda is so popular - it IS something of a formula, and it's a good forumla
I really need to play Minish Cap... to convince myself that it's not the most idiotic premise for a game I've ever heard. I know enough not to knock it til I've played it (there are those who think Mario Sunshine is an idiotic game... !!! so I won't be too quick to judge) but I can't help feeling that a talking hat and shrinking and tiny gnomes are simply unfit to be the basis of an entire game.
Anyway, looking forward to the new Zelda - hopefully there will be some new info soon, I can't keep watching this trailer forever (I mean, it's not even really that pretty, graphically... I just watch it for the gameplay
)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 30, 2005, 01:58:05 PM
Personally I love the shrinking so much that I'm interesting in going further with the idea and making a game where you play as a tiny person the whole time (or I would if, you know, I was a game designer). But then after playing Metroid Prime my initial idea was to make an archaelogical game that focuses almost entirely on scanning so my ideas likely don't have mass appeal.
Seriously though Minish Cap is good stuff. My only complaint is that they refer to Hylians as HUMANS. I guess in the mind of the moron who translated the game humans have pointy ears like elves.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 30, 2005, 02:18:18 PM
Plus, this is the Minish speaking here..."Human" can be a different classification...
(GET THE GAME NOW, RELLIK)
Post by: BlackGriffen on March 30, 2005, 04:50:35 PM
I wouldn't bet my life on it, of course, but I'm reasonably sure that clip shows Link using a bomb arrow.
Post by: PaLaDiN on March 30, 2005, 04:56:25 PM
Although the hissing might come from the dragon thingies... which I love, by the way.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 31, 2005, 04:41:17 PM
Though come to think of it.....that would be freaking swwwwweeeeeeeeeeet!
As for the bomb arrow, it is real. It might come from being a specific attachment a la the fire arrow/ice arrow/light arrow, or it could be the mixing of two individual items (i.e. bomb + normal/fire arrow).
Post by: IceCold on March 31, 2005, 04:52:08 PM
It's not yet April 1 where I live, so you shouldn't be able to write these titles lol
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on April 01, 2005, 11:59:34 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 02, 2005, 03:29:14 AM
Post by: mantidor on April 02, 2005, 07:09:56 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 02, 2005, 07:24:49 AM
Post by: IceCold on April 02, 2005, 11:25:12 AM
Post by: mantidor on April 02, 2005, 08:45:34 PM
My real secret hope is for tingle to appear in the new game, just to make IGN Matt to cry...
Post by: IceCold on April 02, 2005, 10:26:50 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 02, 2005, 11:28:28 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 03, 2005, 12:02:02 PM
Each style has it's pro's and it has it's cons. With "realistic" Zelda, it seems like it was more moody, you felt like there was impending DOOM! "c-zelda" made the Zelda scheme into more of art form, and allowed for beautiful sequences and action to take place that just wouldn't look right if realistic.
If they had a "c-zelda" with the feeling of impending doom, with a more dark and moody twist....I don't think anyone would complain. Actually if it were possible, MM would of been the perfect game to use cel-shading.
The only thing graphically that I didn't like from WW was the art style for humans/bird-people/ and such. I didn't like the little legs, big bodies. It was funny for a little bit, but then it kinda looked stupid. I know it was an art form, but realistic proportions would of helped it's appeal. Oh ya, Link's huge cat eyes weren't that great either.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 03, 2005, 02:07:30 PM
*o*
see? that's awesome stuff.
You are a tremendous clownboat
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on April 03, 2005, 02:51:01 PM
I'll like to see a cell shaded Zelda on the DS since from what I heard, the DS is capable of producing cell shaded graphics with ease. A cell shaded Zelda on the DS won't cause such an uproar too.
Post by: couchmonkey on April 04, 2005, 06:41:33 AM
And I second (or third...whatever) the motion to include Tingle! I love that guy, he's hilarious! I just hope he doesn't force me to pay him thousands of Rupees again. The monetary system in Wind Waker was a little screwed up thanks partly to him...not a big deal, just something that nagged at me in the back of my mind during that game.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2005, 08:52:05 AM
As for Tingle I liked him in Majora's Mask where he was just an odd supporting character. I'm not so keen on the fact that they've since made him somewhat of a major character. His role in Wind Waker and Four Swords Adventures was too big but I found his role in Minish Cap was good. In Minish Cap he's just a minor character like your standard NPC.
Playing Minish Cap I've noticed one thing that really bugs me about that game and that I don't want to see in this new Zelda. The hints in Minish Cap are too blatant and obvious. Everytime you load up your save the damn hat tells you where to go. If you encounter something even slightly irregular he makes a comment. I like figuring out what to do on my own and to make things worse the hints are usually condescending like I'm some total moron who doesn't remember that I have to go to the next dungeon. The hints in the N64 Zelda were annoying as well with the fairies yapping at you every five minutes. Nintendo seems hung up on the idea of holding the players hand so I figure the hints are going to stay but I would like it if they handled it like they did in A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. In LttP if you're lost you visit in fortune teller. In LA you phone that old man. The hints were there if you got stuck but you could completely avoid them if you wanted to. That's what I want to see in the next Zelda (or Metroid for that matter). The help can be there but I should be able to completely avoid it if I want to.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 04, 2005, 09:01:29 AM
Ahaha, you just don't like Ezlo's sarcastic wit! ^_^ I personally was never affected by the hints as I had already figured out what to do by the time Ezlo opened his mouth, and his comments gave me a few chuckles...
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 04, 2005, 10:22:36 AM
Metroid already allows you to turn hints off.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2005, 11:02:18 AM
Actually I was refering to Metroid Zero Mission which had Chozo Statues that told you where to go next. Technically all but one were avoidable though they recharged your health so I found it hard to resist them since usually I needed some repairs. In general though I was just saying that both should have subtle hint systems since the two designs are pretty similar. Basically any adventure style Nintendo game where you aren't confined to a level structure should allow for easily avoidable hints.
Post by: Caillan on April 04, 2005, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 05, 2005, 07:19:28 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 05, 2005, 07:35:40 AM
Link running when the Gorons try and hug him in OoT? That's still on my top ten funniest video game moments ever, because prior to that no humor had been in the game. It was so unexpected and funny.
The game vendor, like mantidor said. I don't know how you couldn't think that guy is hilarious.
Also in Wind Waker, the guy with the telescope. In the southern most west island, I think it is, he says how much he loves his kaleidescope. That was hysterical, at least to me.
As long as it makes me laugh, Zelda should keep the humor. If you're not laughing it's because you haven't got a proper sense of humor. Humor isn't some vague indefinite variable that changes for everyone. It's a scale, and the more things you laugh at the higher you are on the scale. If you laugh at everything you're a ten, if you laugh at nothing you're a one. I'm about an eight. You're apparently a six or something.
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on April 05, 2005, 01:29:53 PM
http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=7591
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 05, 2005, 02:00:50 PM
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on April 05, 2005, 02:07:08 PM
You never know though, what if they do make 2 (or 3) different versions of the game where story and gameplay is different from each one. It was done for the oracle games on the gameboy, I'm sure it could be done for this one, depending on how long they been developing the game. Would be crazy though, to have 2 new Zeldas out at once lol.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 05, 2005, 03:33:10 PM
As for the three versions.....It's Spong. They have to put something to attract attention to their late news update.
Post by: Caillan on April 05, 2005, 08:14:42 PM
A flat joke will ruin the atmosphere of a game, but there's nothing wrong with a gamelike ALttP which has very little humor.
Post by: norebonomis on April 07, 2005, 12:13:42 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on April 07, 2005, 04:17:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: norebonomis
i'd like to see special features for zelda '05, that say, take advantage of revolution's technologies. since the rev. will be backward compatable and all.
That's like asking a GBA game to take advantage of the DS touch screen. I don't think it can be done.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2005, 07:08:49 AM
That's a neat idea in theory but the problem is that the Rev doesn't come out until next year. So realistically to play the "whole" game we would have to either wait or play through the game more than once. The GBA-only features in the Zelda Oracle games worked because the GBA was released around the same time.
Post by: couchmonkey on April 07, 2005, 12:24:20 PM
But I still like the idea.
Post by: norebonomis on April 07, 2005, 06:53:39 PM
i like the idea of petting my kitties though. ;-)
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 07, 2005, 07:01:54 PM
Post by: IceCold on April 07, 2005, 07:14:34 PM
As previously suggested, if you put your Zelda game into the Rev and get extras/unlockables, that would be nice, but there should be something else. Something that really adds to the playability...not sure what, but it would be nice wouldn't it?
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 07, 2005, 07:44:55 PM
Post by: norebonomis on April 07, 2005, 11:32:12 PM
IceCold, i agree that it would be 'nice' if whatever was unlocked by playing the game on the next system REALLY added to the gameplay, not some boring tingle-tuner. but something that really makes playing the game again worth it.
maybe this whole scam is just too far fetched. i'm not really expecting a bonus for playing a gamecube game in my shiny new revolution. allthough being able to play the game again as firce diety link the entire game through, THAT WOULD KICK A$$
Post by: Bloodworth on April 07, 2005, 11:41:41 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on April 08, 2005, 12:07:46 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 08, 2005, 07:34:01 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 08, 2005, 07:43:32 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 08, 2005, 08:04:27 AM
Post by: norebonomis on April 08, 2005, 08:26:30 AM
Post by: vudu on April 08, 2005, 09:13:46 AM
I'm assuming norebonomis was over, but it looks like the avatar was resized.
Post by: norebonomis on April 08, 2005, 09:16:04 AM
Post by: vudu on April 08, 2005, 09:19:24 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 08, 2005, 09:39:29 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 08, 2005, 10:05:06 AM
Post by: 09n on April 08, 2005, 10:46:57 AM
Post by: vudu on April 08, 2005, 10:49:25 AM
QuoteSomehow (I'm not sure how) I haven't picked up Minish Cap yet. I'm ashamed of myself. But I can't seem to put down Yoshi Touch & Go.
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
You better have Minish Cap...
Post by: Gamefreak on April 08, 2005, 11:41:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kingvudu
Actually, Gamefreak is over the limit by 8 KB. Hostile's over by 2.5 KB.
I'm assuming norebonomis was over, but it looks like the avatar was resized.
You're talking crazy talk
Yeah, it was norebonomis...didn't you guys see his "I waste other's time with big avatars" avatar?
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 08, 2005, 12:27:39 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 08, 2005, 12:30:38 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 08, 2005, 12:32:47 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 08, 2005, 01:23:12 PM
If I had a gun that worked over the internet, that'd be awesome.
And you're dumb for saying this. Like, incomprehensibly dumb.
Post by: Gamefreak on April 08, 2005, 01:57:10 PM
Look at Age of Empires III
Anyway, I'm totally fine with the handheld Zelda's being top down and the consoles being behind the back... since both rule.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 08, 2005, 02:14:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: 09n
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat? Or do you all ready have it. I have never played it but people say it was great. In my book there is no point in playing 2D Zelda wishing it was 3D.
That's abit arrogant of you to say, 2D Zelda's are as good as their 3D counterparts. It's Old school and that's how it all started.
2D is far from inferior and still holds so much potential.
Post by: Gamefreak on April 08, 2005, 04:16:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan24Quote
Originally posted by: 09n
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat? Or do you all ready have it. I have never played it but people say it was great. In my book there is no point in playing 2D Zelda wishing it was 3D.
That's abit arrogant of you to say, 2D Zelda's are as good as their 3D counterparts. It's Old school and that's how it all started.
2D is far from inferior and still holds so much potential.
Um I don't think you read his post right...
Post by: 09n on April 08, 2005, 09:02:25 PM
Post by: puzl_the_tagger on April 09, 2005, 08:09:43 AM
Post by: norebonomis on April 09, 2005, 09:54:51 AM
3d zelda kicks the pants off of 2d zelda. stop being nostalgic.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 09, 2005, 10:02:54 AM
LttP is still the best Zelda yet, and OoT is laughably bad. Stop being shallow.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 09, 2005, 11:43:40 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 09, 2005, 12:05:20 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 09, 2005, 12:16:30 PM
If game: Link's Awakening is best Zelda ever, and it's 2D.
If character: Wind Waker Zelda wins.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 09, 2005, 12:37:20 PM
If I may be on-topic this time,
2D Malon is hAWter than 3D Malon.
>> 2D ZERUDA WINS!
Post by: TMW on April 09, 2005, 03:48:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"3d zelda kicks the pants off of 2d zelda. stop being nostalgic."
LttP is still the best Zelda yet, and OoT is laughably bad. Stop being shallow.
Oh Em Gee! You mean someone has an opinion about a videogame that differs from yours? He must be an idiot.
There is no accounting for taste, so please people, stop trying.
As for me, I don't care what flavor it comes in. Zelda is still freaking Zelda...
It's kinda like Pixar. Even when they make a bad movie, it's still good.
Not to name any names....*coughMonsters Inc.cough*
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 09, 2005, 03:53:58 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 09, 2005, 07:41:57 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 09, 2005, 08:37:23 PM
So really the only difference is that in one the viewpoint is fixed and in the other it isn't. The two variations have their own pros and cons but both work really well so quit comparing cookies to candy and enjoy the games. Except maybe for Zelda II.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 09, 2005, 08:44:10 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 09, 2005, 08:49:41 PM
You're on your own now Bill.
Post by: TMW on April 09, 2005, 08:56:50 PM
Candy > Cookies.
Post by: norebonomis on April 09, 2005, 11:17:12 PM
if i choose cookies can i have a glass of milk
Post by: 09n on April 09, 2005, 11:40:05 PM
Post by: nickmitch on April 10, 2005, 08:44:25 AM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMM. . .pppiiieee. . . . .
Post by: Rellik on April 10, 2005, 12:55:10 PM
I enjoyed LttP alot, and LA was great, but I can't say either of the aforementioned have the same charm and overall gooditude that OoT/MM had. And I didn't even really enjoy the first two Zeldas, to tell you the truth. WW was more like the 2-D ones than the 3-D ones, in terms of overall "how the game plays" factor (and I don't mean during battle or anything, just what happens during the game and what the experience is like) except with less cool stuff to do.
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 10, 2005, 05:30:59 PM
(dam the infernal taste of suger, it has to hunt me down until I recover, I can wait until I recover, yummmmmmmmm)Look here, Lttp and Oot are equal, there is now way saying that there better than each other, Im with Ian Sane about the games but i find that cookies kick the stuff out of candy and that cookie dough overkills jaffa cakes and sweet pies.
And in the end i find that MM is first, Lttp is second and Oot is third.
MM is so dam cool
Post by: IceCold on April 10, 2005, 08:18:56 PM
Actually that's not true - but I did read it in an Archie comic sometime (whoever was dieting decided to watch TV to keep their mind off food, but there were only cooking shows on etc)
As for me, I like both 3D and 2D Zeldas, but both in a different way. However, I must say that Nintendo just can't abandon 2D now that the DS is out. They shoud keep releasing 2Ds, at least on the DS, because it still has a lot to give.
Post by: mantidor on April 11, 2005, 07:17:58 AM
From the 2D Zeldas Ive only play the orginal LoZ from emulators >_< and I have to agree with Ian, the difference is not as radical as Mario or Metroid going 3D.
Post by: nemo_83 on April 11, 2005, 08:57:46 AM
Now I want to propose a question related to backwards compatablity between the Cube and the REV. Let us assume that the following truly is the technology that makes "touching good, but feeling better."
http://www.demo.com/demo2/demonstrators/novint.html
http://www.demo.com/demo2/demonstrators/video/novint.asx
The REV will launch with the entire Cube lineup including this new Zelda, but will we be able to use the REV controller to do things in our Cube games we could never do before like aim in Metroid Prime or swing our sword in Zelda?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 11, 2005, 09:11:13 AM
That would require them to plan their games way in advance and I doubt they did that. Plus it's not like Zelda is a sword simulation or something. It's never been much more than "push the button and you swing the sword" so it's not like if you had some new motion controller that Zelda would suddenly have intricate detailed sword fighting. At best you would swing the sword and it would do the exact same thing a button press (which requires no arm strain) would do.
Post by: nemo_83 on April 11, 2005, 09:23:29 AM
i think this could be used without programming ahead of time, though they still have time to do that programming if it were needed for this one Zelda game. this would make the REV a must buy, even if you have already played through the next Zelda by the time the REV is released. sword fighting is not the focus of Zelda, but it is a part of it. in fact all of the weapons in zelda including the bow and fishing pole would work better with force feedback.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 11, 2005, 09:59:00 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 11, 2005, 10:06:35 AM
What? That doesn't make any sense. Designing motion sensor swinging would be much harder to design and program.
"i think this could be used without programming ahead of time"
Well I guess you could just map certain motions to be specific button pushes like you do a vertical slice and the game reads it as forward+B. I think that's how you do a vertical thrust, the controls are so intuitive that I don't even think about what I'm pushing which is why I don't see why there's any real need to change things. So let's assume they can do the button mapping thing. What advantage does that give you? It's still the same moves. One advantage of really swinging is that it would give you better control so you could cut and slice exactly where you want to. The only way to do that would be with extra programming already there which they likely won't do.
And personally I think a sword swinging game deserves it's own title. The concept is unique enough that you could make a neat fighting game out of it.
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 11, 2005, 05:11:29 PM
But lets look into the game futher. Now i want to get the sword fighting in here. You guys know that there will be new stuff to await like sowrd fighting on the horse(I wonder if they herd my pled for horse back sword fighting) I think they should put more button combination onto the sword fighting and other items. It would take a hell of a lot of time, but image the result. Your surronded by gannons soliders and you do a spin attack, a full circle with the analog stick and the push of B, then you push the A button and then push down on the analog stick, you see Link pull off a spin attack then a slash leap forward, killing all foes around him.
But i must stop becuase I know you guys will say its only a dream.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 11, 2005, 05:40:50 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on April 11, 2005, 07:15:18 PM
Post by: IceCold on April 11, 2005, 07:21:55 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on April 11, 2005, 09:12:12 PM
The developer would lock the cursor in 3D onto the hand of the character allowing you to puppeteer the character's body with your arm movements like having two 3D mice. They even said on one of the sites that this technology can be made to work with current games. But games that are specifically designed for it will be able to take greater advantage of its force feedback.
The gamer as a result needs fewer finger functions on the controller as the haptic controller allows things like aiming, jumping, moving, and using the character's hands to be controlled by the gamers hands rather than through the thumb. Think SuperDS.
Post by: mantidor on April 12, 2005, 06:56:17 AM
As for the fighting system of the new game, we saw already in the trailer a downthrust move, and even some punching, Im sure there are some surprises awaiting for us
Post by: Caterkiller on April 12, 2005, 07:47:49 AM
Not exactly Mantidor, we have been playing 3D games since forever, but people who almost never play games have a difficult time just running Mario or Link into a strait line.
I just introduced a super non-gaming co-worker to WW. And using the... Oh wait a sec, I see your talking about the sword play, never mind. I thought you were taking about the analog stick. But who knows, using your arm to really swing could possibly be just as easy and more fun.
Post by: norebonomis on April 12, 2005, 10:25:05 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 12, 2005, 11:22:32 AM
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 12, 2005, 12:47:42 PM
but honestly, I dont want to move my arm or my wrist, I just want to relax and drink my mountain dew while kicking some ass, so im with you norebonomis
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 12, 2005, 05:05:16 PM
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 12, 2005, 05:29:44 PM
Post by: Rellik on April 12, 2005, 06:08:23 PM
After all, Nintendo is all for MORE accessable control and gameplay. Little kids wouldn't have the same ability to swing Link's sword as more mature people with longer/faster arms - that much alone would dissuade Nintendo from such a system.
As such, although I do believe that the Revolution controller will incorporate limited bodily motion as some form of control, I think we can rule out any full-fledged bodily control of the sort that would actually allow you to puppeteer the action on-screen. And I doubt that the upcoming Zelda will be forward-compatible with new Revolution features, seeing as the Revolution probably won't be finalized by the time Zelda comes out.
As for Revolution Zelda... well, to use a generic example, say the bodily control is in the form of an xy tilt-'n-tumble plane - tilt forward, back, left, right. The whole idea is to enhance the intuitiveness of control. So I picture it being used in place of an analog stick - probably as the main motion control device. I would assume both Gamecube analog sticks would remain present on the controller for the sake of compatibility - and having 3 analog controls accessible at one time would be useful (5 if you count the shoulders).
In addition to the tilt-'n-tumble sensor, another cool thing would be a torque sensor
(a little more far-fetched). Basically, any semi-rapid motion twisting the controller left or right would register as an analog input (by the rapiditidy of said motion). Zelda usage: camera swing. Want to see left, twist quickly to the left and you get a quick camera swing - unfortunately, this presents various problems of it's own. Hey, this is fun - conjecture is an enjoyable pastime.Or maybe there's just a gyroscope right in the middle of the controller - not only does it stabilize the controller so that it's easier to keep it in an upright position without accidentally tilting it, but it provides a mechanism for force feedback. Has this been suggested yet? It can offer varying resistance to tilting the controller - a classic example would be in a racing minigame, trying to turn the wheel, the farther it goes, the harder it is. In a fishing minigame, when you're casting, the resistance goes down so the cast feels faster - when you're reeling in, resistance goes up, as you're fighting the fish. Obviously, it's not going to actually stop you from turning it, but it gives you an intuitive cue of tension and resistance in the on-screen physical action.
In Zelda, during horse-riding, the resistance would increase when you try to "rein back", whereas there would be little resistance to tilting the controller forward. All controlled by the speed of the gyroscope, which would have to be very light for its speed to be able to be changed in a small fraction of a second. In battle, when you receive a hit from a moblin sword, resistance goes up exponentially to any direction but back, away from the screen, until you recover - this lets you "feel" the impact of the hit, and the direction of the character's motion.
Post by: IceCold on April 12, 2005, 08:17:21 PM
QuoteYes, it's been discussed to death. It would be innovative but quite hard to implement.
Originally posted by: Rellik
Or maybe there's just a gyroscope right in the middle of the controller - not only does it stabilize the controller so that it's easier to keep it in an upright position without accidentally tilting it, but it provides a mechanism for force feedback. Has this been suggested yet?
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 12, 2005, 09:43:22 PM
Post by: norebonomis on April 12, 2005, 10:25:59 PM
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 12, 2005, 11:36:22 PM
Does anyone know any more things that will be new to the game?
Post by: nemo_83 on April 13, 2005, 01:47:30 AM
I have played a sword simulator game. The graphics were horrible and it was on rails, but I had more fun with it than with Soul Calibur 2 because I could do anything with the sword and it would do it on screen. I can tell you right now that as long as it does not turn every game on REV into a simulator this mechanic would work great as an aspect of the control in real games like Zelda and Metroid. Let us assume the REV itself costs two hundred dollars next fall with the graphics of NextBox, but you pay three hundred and fifty dollars for REV because it comes with two Falcon style controllers and most of the launch games like SSB and Mario only require one handed play meaning you really get two player out of the box.
Post by: mantidor on April 13, 2005, 07:02:39 AM
New things in the game... aside from the horseback combat nothing is certain, in the traillers there are some scenes where Link punches an stalfo, but its not like 100% clear, so Im not sure.
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on April 13, 2005, 08:07:59 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on April 13, 2005, 08:45:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Myxtika1 Azn
This is off-topic, but Nemo, I'm interested in knowing what that sword simulator game is called. Was it in the arcades? Or can it purchased for home use?
It was an arcade game.
As far as the price goes for haptics, the company wants to charge under a hundred dollars for each unit which is reasonable seeing as how people are paying two hundred and fifty dollars for PSPs with dated graphics and controls.
Post by: kennyb27 on April 13, 2005, 02:08:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
As far as the price goes for haptics, the company wants to charge under a hundred dollars for each unit which is reasonable seeing as how people are paying two hundred and fifty dollars for PSPs with dated graphics and controls.
No. I don't want just a part of my console to be upwards of a hundred dollars. I don't care what people are paying for the PSP, I don't want to have to pay more than that for my home console, it needs to be affordable.
But anyway, I'm tired of seeing this topic in the Zelda discussion, can we move this back to the Nintendo Revolution section?
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 13, 2005, 04:11:05 PM
So what about them Stalfos, eh?
Post by: TMW on April 13, 2005, 05:44:08 PM
Rawk!
Post by: mantidor on April 13, 2005, 06:52:08 PM
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 13, 2005, 08:38:35 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 14, 2005, 02:47:24 AM
Post by: norebonomis on April 14, 2005, 12:24:23 PM
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 14, 2005, 05:41:47 PM
http://www.zelda.com/universe/game/legendzelda/
its has a new trailer on it, it looks supburb.
yeah and on this trailer, the enemies dont either glow red
Post by: kennyb27 on April 14, 2005, 05:56:20 PM
)
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 14, 2005, 08:18:26 PM
Post by: Rellik on April 16, 2005, 08:29:36 AM
I was hoping that was a new trailer!
Post by: sim1987 on April 18, 2005, 09:42:07 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 18, 2005, 10:35:17 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2005, 10:55:56 AM
Post by: Shecky on April 18, 2005, 11:43:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
A regular "enemy bounce off shield" doesn't make the enemy step back stunned...
Looked like a shield bash to me - not an uncommon move, really.
The whole sequence (as I recall) looked to consist of IMO:
- Shield bash
- Hit - taking damage
- Sword attack/counter, breaking the shield of the foe
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 18, 2005, 01:40:05 PM
How is the shield bash not an uncommon move? It's never been used in a Zelda game before, therefore it is new.
Post by: couchmonkey on April 18, 2005, 01:42:42 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 18, 2005, 03:51:26 PM
Post by: Shecky on April 19, 2005, 03:31:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
How is the shield bash not an uncommon move? It's never been used in a Zelda game before, therefore it is new.
Well, relatively new to the series yeah, but I was referring to moves for a character of that type (warrior, fighter, swordsman with shield). Also, I'd agree that you kind of have it in the GBA games... as you can move rather freely with the shield drawn and ram a few things (especially spiked critters)
( I'm pretty sure he doesn't have it in SC2 either, but that's not part of the Zelda series any ways, so it's a moot point. )
I can imagine a move like that being as simple as having your shield drawn and pressing forward on the analog stick when right next to an enemy. From what I remember, in OOT, MM, WW you can move pretty freely in that type of case, but nothing really happens if you charge or run into an enemy.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 19, 2005, 10:37:51 AM
MM was amazing, a perfect break from the normal while still tieing in everything Zelda is known.
When'ts E3 start?
Post by: vudu on April 19, 2005, 11:25:20 AM
QuoteI could be wrong, but I believe both Adventure of Link and Link's Awakening are direct sequels (to The Legend of Zelda and A Link To The Past, respectively).
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
I hope this sequel lives up to the only previous Zelda sequel (MM if i'm not mistaken).
Post by: MysticGohan24 on April 19, 2005, 12:54:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kingvuduQuoteI could be wrong, but I believe both Adventure of Link and Link's Awakening are direct sequels (to The Legend of Zelda and A Link To The Past, respectively).
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
I hope this sequel lives up to the only previous Zelda sequel (MM if i'm not mistaken).
Actually... AOL is a Direct sequel to LOZ
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2005, 01:22:58 PM
Quote
Adventure of Link and Link's Awakening are direct sequels (to The Legend of Zelda and A Link To The Past, respectively).
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 19, 2005, 01:52:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kingvudu
I could be wrong, but I believe both Adventure of Link and Link's Awakening are direct sequels (to The Legend of Zelda and A Link To The Past, respectively).
I can confirm that LA is a sequel to LttP. It says so in my LA Player's Guide.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 19, 2005, 02:24:15 PM
I agree. Wind Waker was in many ways a break from a normal, but all Zelda games challenge the limits, so I expect to see some awesome stuff from this game, too.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 19, 2005, 02:30:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
I'm imagining you can ride your shield down the slope of a snowy mountain like a sled or snowboard, racing from an avalanche of angry rolling Gorons. 1080 Exxtreme Zelda AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA somebody stop me.
Seriously though, that would be sweet.
I've always kind of felt that Zelda is meant to be a bit more...Indiana Jones-ish? You know, unbelievable feats and stunts and whatnot. Keep gameplay elements the same though.
Post by: mantidor on April 20, 2005, 07:56:18 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2005, 03:43:09 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 21, 2005, 05:26:11 AM
What are those things around Link (on horse) in that farm place? First scan, top right.
Post by: majortom1981 on April 21, 2005, 05:57:35 AM
THis link has a translation of the article.
70 hours of gameplay.
One demo was that link had to heard cows on his horse,another one is you had to fight a guy on horseback with your bow and arrow.
You also start off in a town wich is sort of like a tutorial but will be fun for veterans.
ITs all i nthe link
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2005, 06:02:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Yay, NPCs!
What are those things around Link (on horse) in that farm place? First scan, top right.
Moo!
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 21, 2005, 06:37:42 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 21, 2005, 07:35:53 AM
I like how Aonuma mentions that they wanted to make clear water because then you can have underwater stuff. That really makes things more flexible. Though it could also mean the return of the Water Temple. Ahhhh!
2 to 3 times as big as Ocarina of Time sound cool though I hope it's actually legimately longer and doesn't just use fetch quests and such to drag things on. While a game should be a good length it's important that it remain fun. It won't matter if the game is longer than OoT if it's boring.
How weird though that a Spanish magazine of all things gets such an exclusive scoop. It looks pretty legit since it would be really hard to fake those new screens.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2005, 07:46:29 AM
And stop being negative in the ZELDA thread of all places...There hasn't been a boring Zelda game ever and I don't think it'll start now...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 21, 2005, 08:28:57 AM
70 of GamePlay.....sounds like a ****load. How long (officially) was OOT? I probably put in at least 40 hours.
Those scans don't look as amazing as the footage did, but that's probably cause they're scans....and not footage
.
Post by: mantidor on April 21, 2005, 08:56:23 AM
they are so low quality. But anyway those are great news, the game will be long, it will have tons of mini games and side quests and the great Zelda humor will also be present. I cant wait! who can anyway?
Post by: nemo_83 on April 21, 2005, 08:59:24 AM
- The village that appears in the pics is the first area in the game (as Kokiri Village in OoT)
- Controls are similar to those of OoT and Wind Waker
- The game's extension is 2 to 3 times bigger than Ocarina of Time
- The adventure can last up to 70 hours
- Horse battles will be a main part of the game
- Eiji Aonuma says: "Making the water trasparent in this new Zelda as opossed to Wind Waker will allow us to give a realistic and more beautiful feel to the game and also open the game to a new subaquactic world"
- Z targetting found in OoT is again used (with the L button in the GC's controller)
- Jumping is again automatic
- Eiji Aonuma wants the graphical style to be close to manga-style (he thinks that the Link found in the SpaceWorld 2000 demo looked like a puppet and lacked personality)
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2005, 09:11:10 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on April 21, 2005, 09:15:27 AM
And I am highly suspicious of that "2-3 times bigger than OoT" statement. I mean to say that the Wind Waker had a MUCH bigger overworld (Most of it a vast empty useless void of meaninglessness and fish) would be very true. But was the GAME itelf any bigger? Nope.
And we all know how they blow those gametime stats up. I remember someone saying that SFA would take the average gamer between 25-40 hours to beat. Meanwhile my first time through took a little over nine hours. And I suck at playing games fast. So the 70 hour thing is more than likely bogus as well.
Zelda wil be great. I just don't like being built up only to be let down is all.
Good to hear the cucoos are back though.
EDIT: Can't spall.
Post by: Mario on April 21, 2005, 09:21:14 AM
I see too much horse.. go away horse, you're not that interesting. ;P
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2005, 09:22:54 AM
You're supposed to take an "average time" and halve it if you are an experienced gamer...And this includes getting EVERYTHING in the game...
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 21, 2005, 09:40:00 AM
Quote
But was the GAME itelf any bigger? Nope.
I don't recall them ever saying "Oh yes, this game is like twenty times bigger than OoT" either. I may have missed that, but I don't think that they pointed out how big the Wind Waker overworld was.
I expect this will be about the same length as Ocarina of Time, maybe a little longer. Just an estimate, but that's what I'm betting on. Who cares how long it is, anyway? I don't want an RPG length Zelda game. Wind Waker was perfect length, I think, but I could certainly do with more, too.
Post by: zakkiel on April 22, 2005, 01:10:37 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 22, 2005, 01:14:33 PM
I never saw a game over in Ocarina of Time, and I was 11 years old going through the game, so it must be ridiculous...
Post by: Chris1 on April 22, 2005, 02:33:03 PM
Post by: Caillan on April 22, 2005, 04:47:58 PM
Quote
Link's "civies" in this game are grossly inferior to the lobster shirt of Wind Waker.
What? Those scans are such low quality you can't possibly see what his new closthes look like with enough detail to judge. I think It would be cool if each new 3D game we got a new outfit at the start, then eventually move on to the traditional green tunic. I liked the lobster shirt in WW.
When I first heard the 70 hour thing I was a bit concerned. After WW, Nintendo seemed willing to flesh out a games lengh by filling it with long travel times. Then I read that Miyamoto said that WW was 40 hours long, so I think we can expect this to be about as long as an average Zelda game. Also, I doubt they'll skimp on dungeons this time as they already had one left over from WW and they've had longer to work on the actual game this time.
About Link 'maturing' throughout the game: Miyamoto said Mario was going to be more mature as well, and then we got Sunshine. It probably doesn't mean anything.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 22, 2005, 05:55:20 PM
Link probably reaches teh mature by revealing his alcohol problems.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 22, 2005, 06:04:33 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 22, 2005, 06:59:52 PM
The parts not translated are in the Wind Waker column, and they say something like this:
"one of the aspects that Aunoma san didnt like much about this game (tWW) was the lack of transparent water, something they plan to correct in the new game, why is that? because as Aunoma himself confirmed "making transparent water will allow us to make a prettier and more realistic graphic outcome and also open the game to a new sub-acuatic world"
"Aunoma also confessed to me that he wants to make another game with the graphics engine of the wind waker in the future"
being spanish my main language I couldnt be more delighted reading the article, the translation doesnt quite capture how exited the writter was about this game ^_^.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 22, 2005, 07:01:11 PM
Oh yes. My prayers have been answered!
Post by: mantidor on April 22, 2005, 07:17:57 PM
Post by: Mario on April 22, 2005, 07:24:44 PM
Quote
"Aunoma also confessed to me that he wants to make another game with the graphics engine of the wind waker in the future"
Yay! I hope he does.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 22, 2005, 07:30:36 PM
It looks like it may have been able to work in dungeons, but in the ocean you can't see the bottom.....
Post by: mantidor on April 22, 2005, 07:39:54 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 22, 2005, 07:41:31 PM
While I'm not totally against this idea I hope they time the release of another cel-shaded Zelda better. The Cube got branded as a kids system pretty quickly once Wind Waker was shown. It's stupid but people did get turned off by the graphics. Ideally when launching the Rev they should try to be as superficial as possible so that insecure people don't get turned off. Release another non-cel-shaded Zelda on the Revolution first to encourage system sales and then release cel-shaded Zelda later when the Rev is established and is in a secure enough position where such a game won't turn away potential buyers.
I figure some people here will say "who cares if superficial are turned off" but the thing is if you're going to get both games anyway what difference does it make to you what order they get released in. It's in everyone's best interest for Nintendo to time the releases in such a way to attract more sales.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 23, 2005, 06:15:24 AM
EDIT: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/content/view/394/1/
New storyline details (possible rumor)
Post by: nickmitch on April 23, 2005, 04:40:02 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 23, 2005, 09:35:52 PM
As for the see-through water...It would have made the game look sooo ugly. I wouldn't have minded WW including a nice pond to dive in, but the whole ocean transparent...meh...
Post by: zakkiel on April 24, 2005, 04:54:59 PM
QuoteIt cerainly is if you did a straight runthrough. But if you took the time to get extra bottles and half-damage and such, meh. Prepubescence is often an advantage in these things.
I never saw a game over in Ocarina of Time, and I was 11 years old going through the game, so it must be ridiculous...
Post by: Gamefreak on April 24, 2005, 05:07:15 PM
Oh, and chicken gliding is back. And there won't be voice acting or GBA connectivity.
Post by: mantidor on April 24, 2005, 05:45:09 PM
Post by: MrMojoRising on April 24, 2005, 10:31:15 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2005, 12:54:30 AM
juex-france.com
Post by: Pepsolman on April 25, 2005, 05:52:53 AM
I can't wait. I'm going to go out and buy a GameCube again just for this game because I sold my original after seeing Wind Waker and the Cel-awfulness. Finally the glory is back and I can have pride in being a realistic/graphics Zelda fan. Thank the heavens!!!
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2005, 06:34:27 AM
See? I cant resist
the good thing about knowing nothing about the game is that it will be surprise after surprise constantly, and Zelda games main great feature is that constant sense of wonder and exploration. Its like maximizing the already big potential for "awesomeness" of the game. But I cant help my curiosity.a little question, Link is left haded, right? but I just noticed that in the WW he holds the bow with his right hand, I have to check the other games, but it seems that hes not left handed after all, which makes me sad because Im left handed and I founf Link being one too to be really really cool.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 25, 2005, 06:34:56 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on April 25, 2005, 07:24:41 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 25, 2005, 07:37:03 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 25, 2005, 08:08:15 AM
I believe Link is left handed, mantidor, I know at least he holds his sword in his left hand.
What do you mean holds the bow with his right hand? I'm right handed and I hold the bow with my left hand and draw the string with my right hand. I believe Link holds it in his right hand and draws with his left, meaning he would be left handed.
Post by: Chris1 on April 25, 2005, 08:25:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pepsolman
All I can say is... IT'S ABOUT FRIGGIN TIME!!
I can't wait. I'm going to go out and buy a GameCube again just for this game because I sold my original after seeing Wind Waker and the Cel-awfulness. Finally the glory is back and I can have pride in being a realistic/graphics Zelda fan. Thank the heavens!!!
So you sold your Gamecube, just cause Wind Waker came out? ummm couldn't you have just, not like bought the game? or somethin. your pride missed you out on a great game, and you know its some terms the Wind Waker is the most realistic Zelda to date.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 25, 2005, 10:50:30 AM
I'm going to have to ditto Hostile's remark here...I'm left-handed as well and I hold a bow in my right hand...
Post by: Caterkiller on April 25, 2005, 10:53:08 AM
Hey look at this cool Master Sword on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=475&item=6527640060&rd=1
NEW LEGEND OF ZELDA SWORD YELLOW TRANGLE .VIDEO GAME
Post by: Gamefreak on April 25, 2005, 11:13:15 AM
Anyway, yeah, Link is left-handed, but it doesn't really matter that he holds his bow in his right hand. He probably needs the strength of his left hand to pull the string.
Post by: Artimus on April 25, 2005, 11:27:31 AM
But any left handed person holds a bow with their right hand. Just like any right handed person holds it with their left...
Post by: Guitar Smasher on April 25, 2005, 11:45:27 AM
It's just a matter of personal preference, mostly based on which eye you aim better with. I know I shoot left in hockey, but I swing right in golf.
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on April 25, 2005, 12:00:45 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2005, 01:02:26 PM
So maybe you will get what your looking for. "The best of both worlds"
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2005, 01:23:48 PM
Breaking news! As many of you already know, the next issue of EGM will feature a "blow-out" cover story on the new Zelda. As it turns out, some people across the Internet have already received their copy (mainly subscribers in the Ziff-Davis area of California, where it's already circulating)! The new details revealed are quite promising. They include:
There will be no voice acting. Hurray for written text!
There will be no GBA connectivity. I liked the Tingle Tuner, but alas...
Fishing returns! You can "angle" for fishies in the beautiful new waters!
Artwork of Princess Zelda depicts her wielding a blade
The storyline involves both Zelda AND Ganon; part of the story involves Link rescuing Zelda
No official title has been decided upon yet (as of press time)
"Chicken gliding" with the cuccos is back!
Link is a cowboy at the game's beginning; there's a minigame to teach horseback riding
Many positively gushing Tauro Village impressions; "great sense of realism," "grand in scale"
Horseback battles, including equestrian boss battles, will be plentiful
Combat in Zelda '05 will be different from, and enhanced over, TWW
Also, the U.K. Gamecube magazine "Cube" had an excerpt of what they claim is the official opening premise for the game's story. They said:
"The storyline of the new Legend of Zelda seems to be a simple case of good versus evil. While the dark of the night has always been home to evil, just recently something has empowered the ghouls and undead of the world to venture into the light; in extreme circumstances, groups of winged demons have been terrorizing the farms and villages that line the open plains of Hyrule. Link's mission is to get to the bottom of what's empowering these demons before they completely dominate the land. We're guessing that Ganondorf will have a hand in this one, but there's no sign of him at this early stage."
Another hot tip about the storyline jives well with this, saying that when Link sees the Triforce appear on his hand (as seen in the Hobby Consolas screenshots), he realizes his destiny and sets off to search for the fiend behind the rising tides of darkness. Then, for the beginning of the game, he fights to rescue Zelda from Ganon, only for a catastrophic event to occur that takes him on a far greater quest. Such is the rumor from alledged "insider" sources, but it sounds reasonable considering recent revelations.
On another note, I suspect Tauro Village will be the official English name for the farming community Link calls home. It sounds like "toro," the Spanish word for bull, a fitting term for a village filled with horned blue cows.
More EGM details! This time, taken from the IGN Boards, which in turn took it from the 1up.com Boards. Stevo18 wrote this, though I edited it for ease of reading, since the original was plagued by bad grammar and spelling (and in a way could still be better):
Chicken gliding is back, and it looks just as silly as I'd imagined it would, in a "realistic" Zelda. Fishing also makes a comeback, and from the sounds of it looks every bit as delightful as you could possibly imagine.
Also, Link receives a wooden sword early on in the game, and learns combat skills through a familiar scarecrow-bashing tutorial. It sounds like the OoT and MM scarecrows will make a return appearance this way.
Now at the beginning of the game, Link is a young cowboy living in a small rural community called Toaru Village. Now this town is NOT in Hyrule; rather, it's located a long way away from Hyrule. The people of Toaru raise cows to sell to the kingdom of Hyrule, and the two places share a friendly relationship with one another.
There are several other villages, and every year the kingdom of Hyrule gathers them all together for a kind of festival where all of the people can communicate with one another. As part of the tradition, the chief of the village is supposed to attend the festival, but this time around, the chief orders Link to go instead.
On the way to the festival, Link encounters some kind of accident, which eventually leads him to the main adventure...
Some interview excerpts:
EGM: Will this Zelda be about rescuing the princess again?
Eiji Aonuma: Yes, the story will involve Zelda, and the story will involve Ganon, but of course the plot won't be identical to those in past Legend of Zeldas.
EGM: Where does this Zelda fit in the overall series timeline?
EA: I can't really go into that, partially because I want to keep it a secret, but also because we haven't decided yet. There are some kinds of...unstable, uncertain ideas we're working on. Depending on what course we choose in terms of developtment, the final ending may change.
EGM: Is it safe to say there is some major gameplay element we still don't know about, like the sailboat in Wind Waker, that will remain secret until just before the game comes out?
bA: You're right. (laughs)
EGM: Is that why the game name still doesn't have a subtitle? Will the full name give something away?
EA: We really don't know what we're going to do with the subtitle at this point. It could work the other way around--maybe there will be some kind of mystery about the title, and somewhere in the course of the gameplay, you'll realize it's meaning.
EGM: From what we've played, the combat feels exactly like Windwaker-we noticed you can still smash shields, knock off helmets, etc. Do you have any changes planned?
EA: Remember how in Wind Waker, if the enemy comes within a certain range of Link and you press the A button at the right time, sometimes Link will do a special attack? We think that worked very well, so we're thinking about intensifying that aspect with this game. We've already added some things, like a jumping downward stab. We're going to incorporate more of those cool-looking performances and a few other changes. People are going to see that this game is pretty different from Wind Waker.
EGM: Besides combat and the graphics, how else will this game be different from Wind Waker?
EA: About the setting, in Wind Waker it was the ocean. I really cannot tell you what kind of setting we're going to adapt for this new Zelda, but I can say we are really trying to expand the sense of scale. Before, whenever we made 3D games, we shied away from using too many big objects. If they aren't necessary for specific gameplay ideas, they become a kind of obstacle. But in this game, we are trying to be more realistic. In this horse-riding battle, you can see it takes place on a huge land, even if it's mostly empty landscape. That's why we need the horse from the very begining of the game. We want people to feel that this is a huge land they're playing in, and without a horse, it's impossible for you to explore. Also, sometimes you're going to see something that's just vast, even though it's not involved in gameplay--something huge or something very tall. We want to realize that sense of awe by presenting things realistically.
EGM: I know you got so many questions about the graphics for Wind Waker and now this new Zelda--do you get tired of talking about the graphics all the time?
EA: No. After all, I have a designer's background myself, so I know how important the visuals are. A change in graphics can give a perfectly different impression to game userI know all about this. But I should say it's not very easy for me to explain why we use this visual style here, why we use that graphical style in other games. I'm kind of forced to make some reasonable, rational background explanation in order to persuade people to understand why this is better than the others. It's not very easy. In my mind it's the emotions you get from one visual that are different from another(style). Whenever we work on a game, we have (lots of) internal discussions about what kind of graphical style we need to adapt. Graphics are very important.
EGM: Looking back, what do you think about the reaction to Wind Waker's cartoon-style graphics?
EA: I know that before the game shipped, there were many debates and arguments about the graphic style. But as soon as we launched Wind Waker, and people started to play with it, they said: "We understand now. This is the reason you used this graphical style this time." Likewise, we're very hopeful that when we launch this new Zelda game, people are going to appreciate it without any further questions and think, "OK, that makes sense."
EGM: True, once most people actually play Wind Waker, the visuals don't bother them, but do you think a lot of people never even picked it up just because of how it looked?
EA: Well, yes, that's unfortunate, but it's true that with graphics... people like certain graphics, and people don't like certain graphics. It's very clear for each different individual. So we're sorry for that, but what I can tell you is, we are pretty confident that we were right about the cartoon approach for Wind Waker. Without that approach, we couldn't tell enough about the story. So whenever people have some doubts, all I can say is-this is a very japanese expression--"You may think it's a trick, but try it and see."
EGM: Let's move on to things we've seen in the two video trailers you've released so far. What's with all the cats, for example?
EA: We're thinking of incorporating some ideas where Link can communicate with animals, one way or another. I can't elaborate on specifically how. But the reason you can pick up cats early in the game in Toaru Village, for example, is because we wanted people to understand you can touch the cats, you can play with them. After leaving that impression, it'll become easier for us as developers to have complex ideas afterward, where the players are willing to approach the animals.
EGM: What about where all the ghosts appear? Is that link using the Lens of Truth item to see invisible stuff?
EA: You may be right-it's one of those mechanics where, after solving riddles, what's invisible can become visible. But once again, I can't elaborate on how that works in that specific case. Please look foward to the actual game. (smiles)
EGM: And that shadowy figure on our cover with his or her back to Link?
EA: Very sorry, but we'd like to keep it secret. People can take your cover as a big mystery. We're not sure when we want to break that infomation--maybe at the next E3 show in May, or maybe not. As a hint, you can also see a kind of castle in the background scenery...
EGM: Wind Waker had a fantastic connectivity feature where a second player could play on a Game Boy Advance hooked up to the Gamecube to help Link. Are you planning anything similar for this Zelda?
EA: Well, I liked the connectivity in Wind Waker very much, and I'm hopeful that we can create that kind of play experience for other games. What's cool about Wind Waker's connectivity is that you can get some additional information on a real-time basis. Even though it may not be "real" realtime, somehow we may be able to reproduce a similar game experience. Maybe a second character in this new Zelda can get access to certain information and help the main player. As far as the character that the other player controls--Tingle--I found out some American people didn't like him very much. So we need to think about what kind of character we're going to use. (laughs)
EGM: So would this new system use the same GBA-GC Link cable setup?
EA: No, we really want everything to be realized with a Gamecube and a disc, nothing else. With connectivity, the downside is you need the Link cable and you need the GBA. For those who don't have everything, the idea of creating something through connectivity, even if it's very good, is pointless. So what I'm thinking is, maybe we can reproduce a similar gaming experience without the cable or GBA.
EGM: In the movie trailer and on our cover, we see a wolf howling-can you tell us anything about that? There's some speculation maybe Link is a werewolf...
EA: Hmm...sorry, confidential.
Well, that's as far as I'm typing, as far as the interview itself is concerned. I want to fill you guys in on the actual hands-on stuff:
Hands-On Report - Part One: TOARU VILLAGE
Ah, the tranquil hamlet that kicks off nearly every Zelda game. The one thing that stands out about Toaru Village (Japanese for "unspecified"--the English name is to be determined) is, like everything in this new Zelda, the sense of realism. And we aren't just talking about the graphics: townspeople go about their business, cats and chickens wander here and there (one attacking the other if they get too close), birds scatter out of the tall grass as Link approaches... The sense of scale is impressive; maybe it's just a reaction to Wind Waker's squat characters, but everything seemed taller, bigger, more spread out.
As in the last game, Link starts out without a weapon or his trademark green outfit. "If someone happened to see this scene without knowing what game it is," says Aonuma," they probably wouldn't even guess it was Link in The Legend of Zelda." Upon closer inspection, however, one detail is a dead giveaway: on the back of Link's left hand are three dark triangles--Zelda's Triforce symbol.
"Stick it to 'em"- Eventually Link gets a wooden sword and learns combat in a familiar scarecrow-bashing tutorial. As before, the L trigger locks on targets and B performs different attacks, depending on the direction of the analog stick. But if you don't lock on you can now swipe your sword as you move around, without stopping (handy for clearing tall grass, no doubt), and Link has a special coup de grace: press A for a jumping downward thrust to finish off enemies you've knocked over.
"At home on the Range"-- Another early minigame teaches the player how to ride horseback. As in previous games, you can simply push in the direction you want to go for a slow trot or hit A to apply the whip for a burst of speed. You can also see where "Cowboy Link" (Aonuma's name for our hero before he earns his green duds) gets his name--the goal here is to round up and force all the grazing animals into the barn before time runs out. It's a little tougher than you might think.
"Flying the coup"- Good news: Chicken-gliding is back! Just grab one of your fine-feathered friends, find a tall building or cliff, and jump off--Link floats slowly down, which enables him to reach areas he couldn't otherwise. This technique came in handy during our demo: a pregnant woman asked Link to retrieve a baby basket on the other side of an otherwise unscalable fence. After getting it, he slowly (move too fast and you'll be scolded) escorts her back to her home with it. What a guy!
Hands-On Report- Part 2: BOSS FIGHT!
"Horseback Attack"- Horseback riding has an expanded role in this new Zelda--as Aonuma tells us, fast transportation is basically a requirement from the very start of the game because of larger environments. The second scene we played proved his point with a full-speed boss fight; Link chased down this big-horned baddie atop his bigger-horned steed, first slashing him to remove his armor, and then pelting him with arrows. A very cool and very challenging concept for a boss.
"Fighting The Horde"--Other mobile enemies swarmed Link, trying to distract him from his true target. Horseback combat felt smooth and natural; as always, you can lock on to targets or go into first person and aim manually, slinging arrows with X (or the R trigger for exploding bomb arrows). Link's head tracked nearby foes, and he pivots in whatever direction you point to attack with his sword. He could also dismount anytime and the enemies would circle, making passes until he knocked them off their battle-boars or killed them right in the saddle. (Aonuma told us that in the final game, Link can even steal some of the bad guy's rides.)
The scenery was lovely--rolling hills with the shadows of clouds floating past--but sparse, with only a fence now and then to break things up. Then again, most of our attention was on the enemies--seven or eight (counting thier boars) on screen at once, without a hint of slowdown.
"Steeple Chase"-- As in the earlier cattle-driving minigame, you can make Link's steed trot in any direction by pushing on the analog stick. You can also whip his horse with the A button for a boost (an action again limited to six times, with a corresponding meter that slowly regenerates). Speed is important; unless Link is moving fast enough to automatically jump over the same wooden fences the boss leaps over, he'll slam into them and stop completely. So that's three things you need to worry about: Keeping up with the boss, attacking him, and avoiding his minions.
Last but not least, I want to mention the beautiful drawing of Princess Zelda holding a sword, and three sketch drawings of Link's different emotions, assuring me that this part of the game isn't being overlooked.
----------------------------------------
Hope you guys enjoy, I personally didn't read it cause I don't want the game to feel familiar to me before I have even played it.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 25, 2005, 01:30:49 PM
This E3 is going to be so boring to me if I manage to avoid new Zelda info. Deep down though I know I can't. ARRRGH!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2005, 01:58:53 PM
I bet you thought it was gonna say something very interesting under here, didn't you, go on and admit it, you were just too curious not to look, well take that curiosity and read the interview up above, now that is interesting, and a lot less of a waste of time than it was to read this
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 25, 2005, 02:14:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
This E3 is going to be so boring to me if I manage to avoid new Zelda info.
I seriously doubt that...
(You cannot resiiiiiiist)
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 25, 2005, 02:47:20 PM
Eiji Aonuma should NOT be shortened to EA. Ever.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 25, 2005, 02:59:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Eiji Aonuma should NOT be shortened to EA. Ever.
I didn't ant to be the one to type it out manually, even though I know there is an easy way to do it in MS Word
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2005, 03:52:57 PM
So the bow thing depends on the person? I didnt expect that, I as a left haded hold the bow with the left hand.
*keeps trying to ignore the text* >_<
Post by: zeldagcdude on April 25, 2005, 05:02:00 PM
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/nintendopowerapr05/page1.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/nintendopowerapr05/page2.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/nintendopowerapr05/page3.jpg
Written by Lars, Monday, 25 April 2005
More details on the new Zelda game!Thanks to various foreign sources, we have much more information about the upcoming Legend of Zelda GC for you. And as if that wasn't enough, we have fresh magazine scans for you as well. All information inside!
First, let's start out with the new scans. They were originally posted by JeuxFrance.com, but they did not specify the source of the images in the article. However, I am 99% sure that it comes from the EGM article, since it was coupled with some information from it. If someone can confirm or deconfirm this, it would be nice so that I can edit the name of the album in the Media Gallery.
EDIT: We have gotten confirmation on that these new scans are in fact from the latest edition of Nintendo Power, and not EGM as previously thought. We will try to get a hold of the EGM scans as well.
Now, for the new information. Most of this comes from a German gaming website called GameFront.de, which has it from the EGM article.
* Link does not come from Hyrule. Taoru village is aparantly not a part of the Kingdom of Hyrule, but a neighbour to them. The citizens of Taoru are farmers who earn their Rupees by selling food and animals to Hyrule
* Every year the leaders/mayors of the different villages gather in a large meeting of sort, this is to keep the bond and relationship between them tightly knit. However, this year the Mayor of Taoru can't go, and sends Link instead. This is how Link's adventure gets started.
* Ganon and Zelda are both in this game, but the developers have pointed out that the story of the game is not identical to what has become tradition in previous games.
* Apparantly, the fact that this game takes place after The Wind Waker in the Zelda timeline was not fact, and now Aonuma says that they are not sure when it takes place.
* There is said to be an specific item that will be very important to the flow of the game, but they don't want to reveal what it will be yet.
* According to Eiji Aonuma, they title has not been decided yet. They are pondering on giving it a "mysterious" title which will only make sense during playing the game.
* EGM points out that they combat system is very similar to that of The Wind Waker, but Aonuma says that they will/have been further developing the system where the A button "glows" at a certain time to do a counter attack. There is also a new jump attack.
* This game will be larger than all previous Zelda game. The fields and plains will be large, making to horse essential to the gameplay. Buildings will be huge, but there will also be large, empty fields. In short, everything will be larger, because it makes it more realistic, according to Aonuma.
* This time, Nintendo hopes that people don't even have to play the game to understand the choice of the more mature graphics, which was the case with the opposite, more childlike graphics in The Wind Waker.
Aonuma also says that they are aware that there were people who did not play The Wind Waker just because of the cartoon like graphics, and this makes him sad, but they still insist that they were right for the game.
* Link will have to communicate with animals in this new game, however Aonuma does not want to reveal exactly how.
* Apparantly the game is not quite finished yet, and there is still a possibility that Link will have a "sidekick" in the game, which supports Link throughout the course of the game giving information about the various things.
There's more to come, so be sure to stop by frequently as we will keep you updated!
www.zeldauniverse.net
Post by: Robotor on April 25, 2005, 05:20:29 PM
Zelda=drug, info and all.
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2005, 05:47:32 PM
Post by: Mario on April 25, 2005, 06:50:25 PM
"Well, this DURR is the best game DUR i've ever played, but you know, it doesn't have DURR voice acting - 7.9"
Anyway, good idea, i've been meaning to replay Wind Waker again.
Post by: IceCold on April 25, 2005, 07:25:19 PM
And yea - Matt really needs to stop complaining about Voice acting - "big disappointment" - not likely...
Post by: Savior on April 25, 2005, 07:38:11 PM
Post by: Artimus on April 25, 2005, 07:54:34 PM
Post by: Caillan on April 25, 2005, 08:20:41 PM
Post by: Savior on April 25, 2005, 08:27:22 PM
once again, whats the problem with NPCS having Voice actors??
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 25, 2005, 08:48:28 PM
It's just lazy, boring, and flashy, there's no actual quality to it. Typed text is more intellectually and creatively provoking, and allows each player to imagine characters how they feel fits best. Honestly, I could do without voice acting in all games because I prefer reading text.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 25, 2005, 09:00:52 PM
I already get shafted enough by certain idiotic devs who leave out subtitles.
Post by: mantidor on April 25, 2005, 09:05:31 PM
But lets say that they pull of some big quality voice acting (something I havent seen in videogames at all), still the magic will be lost, even if Link remains silent, when Zelda speaks it would be awkward, and it would be just weird to have everyone talk except Link and Zelda because that would hurt the characters, so its best to just completly ommit the voice overs. Games do not need voice acting, it doesnt make the experience any more involving, (if the characters could say a compeltly different thing every time you talk to them then voice acting could be appreciated, but thats imposible), it doesnt improve the polish of the game, the characters from time to time say some interesting monologes, but most of the time is " get X item!" will the game be really better if we can hear that? I think not. Voice acting is, imo, a truly gimmick, something flashy that really isnt needed.
And the most important reason to all, you could no longer name Link as you want, and that would suck beyond words.
Oh and Matt is a retard for not noticing what Ive mentioned in the previous paragraphs, and for making Tingle go away, (Aunoma said that Tingle wasnt liked by some of the "western" people, that made me feel bad
, and also made me have an urge to kill that retard)
Post by: Caillan on April 25, 2005, 09:11:10 PM
Because Zelda is an established series, we all have an idea of what, say, Gannondorf roughly sounds like. An imagined voice to match the grunts. When we hear another voice the dissonance will give us a bit of a shock, at least at first. It will definately be different to what we expected, and sound different to Gannondorf's grunts: the old 'actor' was Japanese and the new one cannot be. Most people expect to hear actors with a slightly modified American accent when they see a movie or TV show. I think it's reasonable, however, to believe that Nintendo will instead be inclined to hire an untrained actor from the deep south of the Texas panhandle. If I expected Nintendo to hire convincing and skilled actors, I don't think I'd mind so much. Instead, I expect them to hire terrible actors like they did with Sunshine.
What I'm trying to say here is that Zelda would be a particuarly difficult game to put voices in, that they wouldn't fit, and that bad voice acting would be detrimental to the game. A sort of more serious gibberish similar to what Banjo Kazooie had wouldn't be so bad, as long as it had a unique accent, was quiet, and not played in a loop. Jade Empire has apparently made an entire language, and we already have Hyrulian script. We already hear a low mumble sometimes anyway.
EDIT: Thanks HC and mantidor, you guys said it better and faster than me.
Post by: Mario on April 25, 2005, 09:47:54 PM
Yeah, the Tingle issue, I forgot about that. I think he's hilarious, he added some comic relief to Majora's Mask at the right times, I will be sad if he's not in the new one at least somewhere.
Post by: Shecky on April 25, 2005, 10:02:41 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 25, 2005, 11:07:03 PM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on April 25, 2005, 11:36:50 PM
I personally don't mind reading the text as long as they give you an option to speed through/skip it. For example in Wind Waker, I disliked how each time I find a dungeon map I had to read through instructions on how to use it.
Post by: Caillan on April 25, 2005, 11:49:31 PM
Quote
For example in Wind Waker, I disliked how each time I find a dungeon map I had to read through instructions on how to use it.
I didn't like that either but I think it's a seperate issue. I'd be annoyed if I had to listen to the same voice sample every time I talked to an NPC as well.
Post by: Dasmos on April 26, 2005, 12:44:11 AM
Maybe not
Post by: Mario on April 26, 2005, 02:08:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
I thought it was gonna be Link from WW?
Maybe not
What do you mean? Is there something in the recent information that contradicts that? I don't see anything.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 03:15:04 AM
Post by: Dasmos on April 26, 2005, 03:32:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
I thought it was gonna be Link from WW?
Maybe not
What do you mean? Is there something in the recent information that contradicts that? I don't see anything.
Exactly! Aonuma said he wasn't sure where it fits in. I thought it was a definate. Sure it could be but if they are not sure then it's a "maybe"
EDIT: I found it: However, he did confirm two never-before-known facts about the project. "The next grand Zelda game, which follows chronologically after the Wind Waker, will be released at the end of 2005 in Japan," Aonuma revealed. The late 2005 release date in Japan would indicate that a simultaneous launch in the US could be planned.
This i thought meant it was the same link?
Post by: Nile Boogie on April 26, 2005, 04:53:01 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 05:00:01 AM
Technically the game could take place another 1000 years after WW, like WW was after OoT, but who knows what is going on with the story for now...
Post by: Shecky on April 26, 2005, 05:04:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Half-life 2 is set in the real world and in the first-person perspective though. They don't quite compare.
I wasn't comparing the games. I was just saying that HL2 does a good job of incorporating voice work while still giving the main character some abstraction in personality.
Post by: Shecky on April 26, 2005, 05:16:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Technically the game could take place another 1000 years after WW, like WW was after OoT, but who knows what is going on with the story for now...
IMO:
People focus too much on continuity and chronological order... Back in the days we had to make up half of the story in our imagination just for one game.
Just treat them independently (or link them with true sequels if you want) and enjoy the story they "retell" so to speak.
I've wondered if this is just as bad in other media... for example, comics, movies, TV, etc. I can imagine the problems if you tried to glue every thing ever made for superman together...
Post by: couchmonkey on April 26, 2005, 06:04:22 AM
I have no problem with voice acting as long as they include text and allow me to shut it off if I want. I do think the series is better off without it, but I barely notice bad voice acting and I totally see why a lot of people prefer it. I don't think there's any reason why you couldn't skip over a voiced NPC conversation just like you can skip over text ones...other than lazy programming...skipping over any piece of text should be possible at any time in any game.
Post by: mantidor on April 26, 2005, 07:21:20 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 26, 2005, 07:40:37 AM
Quote
I wasn't comparing the games. I was just saying that HL2 does a good job of incorporating voice work while still giving the main character some abstraction in personality.
And all Zelda characters should have that abstraction of personality. How many of the Half-Life characters have fully-fleshed personalities, or personalities that you find out gradually or that you can use your imagination to easily conceive? Zelda characters are full of personality, and it's partially because they don't go out of their way to fake it by just giving voices.
If they do have voice acting, I insist they include an option to turn it off. Because I know I will be.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 26, 2005, 08:14:42 AM
I know. My point was that HL2 is set in the real world and has a first-person perspective, so voice acting is expected for full immersion. When was the last time you looked at somebody and read what he said to you?
Zelda, however, is set in what I like to think of as an adventure book. Your imagination provides the voices, and because of that real voices would be a letdown.
Post by: Nile Boogie on April 26, 2005, 09:42:58 AM
Nataile Portman as "The Princess Zelda"
Orsen Wells as "Ganondorf"
and Link Starring as "Himself"
Not that any Zelda game should have voice overs, but if they did at least on the surface, those 2 people would seem to do a good job although Orsen Wells is dead. Maybe Gary Oldman as Ganon. I just think back to The Wind Waker when Ganon said to Link, "Do not betray my expectaions!" and I think if some deep powerful voice belleowed that toward me right before our epic duel of fate...maybe, maybe not, just a thought.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 26, 2005, 09:49:05 AM
Post by: Shecky on April 26, 2005, 10:42:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"I wasn't comparing the games. I was just saying that HL2 does a good job of incorporating voice work while still giving the main character some abstraction in personality."
I know. My point was that HL2 is set in the real world and has a first-person perspective, so voice acting is expected for full immersion. When was the last time you looked at somebody and read what he said to you?
Zelda, however, is set in what I like to think of as an adventure book. Your imagination provides the voices, and because of that real voices would be a letdown.
devil's advocate hat aside now... I agree... I don't think voice acting in a Zelda series would add anything... I'd rather have my imagination picture what a heavily armored darknut or a wound up windmill guy may sound like. I'd much prefer that over being casted into some other interpretation.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 11:02:33 AM
She really is equipped with a rather cool-looking sword, as well as shoulder armor...From the art alone it looks to me as if she'll be playing a more active part this time around...
Post by: nemo_83 on April 26, 2005, 11:07:44 AM
Post by: Caliban on April 26, 2005, 11:53:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
where can i find scans?
http://www.jeux-france.com has some scans of EGM. Don't read if you don't want to be spoiled: That boss riding on a huge boar full of armor looks wicked, can't wait to fight bosses while riding on Epona. Although I wasn't much interested in the fishing mini-game in OOT I'm curious to see how well they do in this game. Zelda's artwork also looked wicked, she's holding a sword so atleast I'm expecting some battling with her, and that shoulder armor looks gorgeous. I wonder who that black-caped man is in the cover of EGM, he has some kind of drawing on his cape which makes me think he is going to be like that magician in LTTP and bring back Ganon. Also notice in the cover that there is a wolf, so afterall the suspicion that it will have importance in the game is confirmed.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 11:54:56 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on April 26, 2005, 11:56:55 AM
I live @ 4622 Nth11 ST. Philadelpha Pa, 19140.
I wish to be kidnapped and put into Cryo until the release of this game
I have $17.04
Post by: Caliban on April 26, 2005, 11:57:43 AM
.
Post by: nemo_83 on April 26, 2005, 12:46:55 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 26, 2005, 02:10:18 PM
But it's also the shape of the Lens of Truth. Doesn't that guy look like he could have something to do with the undead in this game?
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 02:29:15 PM
Post by: Nile Boogie on April 26, 2005, 03:00:31 PM
Post by: Savior on April 26, 2005, 04:16:04 PM
Quote
don't think voice acting in a Zelda series would add anything...
And i say adding it wouldnt ruin it... the general excuse i see is, if its a bad voice acting job then it ruins the game. Sure, but if the gameplay is bad, graphics is bad, music is bad... it ruins the game as well. I dont mind voice overs, and dont see how it would ruin the series. I dont think The Lack of Voice Acting is going to ruin it for me either... Im going to buy it and love it regardless, but i just dont thing Matt is totally incorrect. Matt/IGN Bashing is fun and stuff but occasionally exagerated. His other complaint is that, its Zelda, Gannon and Link again. You know what? Hes right. a good Zelda game doesnt need Gannon to be great. Links Awekening on the GB is one of my favorite games ever, and it had a Giant Egg, not Gannon.
Post by: mantidor on April 26, 2005, 05:59:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
On one hand I hate it when they use name actors but on the other hand having people who can actually, you know, ACT would make for better voice overs.
Its true, and thats why Mononoke Hime's Voice translation was succesfull, they hired real professional actors, ( I can only remember Gillian Anderson from the top of my head). For a movie is great, dialog is really nice, although silent movies were just as awesome, if not more, but Im digressing. A game is different, as I said before, unless the characters could say a different thing every time, voice acting wont enhance the game's quality. And it would be kind of ugly to hear the NPC talking and talking the same line, even if the acting is mindblowing, after hearing it a couple of times, it will become dull.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 06:51:22 PM
I've been able to find the full piece of artwork that EGM used on its cover, and it is mindblowing...It DOES contain a spoiler of a new character (identity unknown) for those avoiding every new Zelda tidbit, so beware...Link (lol pun)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 26, 2005, 06:56:54 PM
but guess what..... my LINK does
Post by: mantidor on April 26, 2005, 07:01:27 PM
Post by: Savior on April 26, 2005, 07:09:35 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 07:11:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
haha your 'link' doesn't work
but guess what..... my LINK does
YOURS fails for just being the EGM cover, while mine is the full artwork... =D
Post by: Ian Sane on April 26, 2005, 07:14:29 PM
Cool art nonetheless and the spoiler is pretty minor. I want to try to avoid content related details like actual game play. Art isn't that big of a deal since odds are it will be on promotional material in stores anyway.
I've been thinking of this voice acting stuff and while reading IGN's impressions of Fire Emblem I figured out a good way to do voice acting (though I don't really want it) without the irritation of NPCs reading off the same lines again and again. Fire Emblem is mostly text. There are voices only during certain cinematics. Just make it so that voices only appear in scenes where dialogue only occurs once. So in Ocarina of Time for example there would be voice for the scene in the beginning when Navi wakes you up and you talk to Saria. That's a cutscene and the dialogue happens only once. However when you go around the village talking to NPCs the words would be text.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 26, 2005, 07:19:47 PM
Let's try again...
Post by: Hybrid Hunter on April 26, 2005, 07:21:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 26, 2005, 07:35:42 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 26, 2005, 08:30:25 PM
If only they could make a background of that artwork.
Post by: Savior on April 26, 2005, 09:03:07 PM
Im wondering its significance in the game...
Post by: Caliban on April 26, 2005, 09:06:45 PM
I agree with Paladin in that it looks like they are making it a forceful contrast. I could be totally wrong but I think that in this game all the species that usually were "friends" with link are going to become enemies.
Edit: Eeeks! I just got this terrifying idea, what if Zelda also goes against Link?! *slaps his face so he wakes up from nightmare* .
Post by: zeldagcdude on April 26, 2005, 09:07:24 PM
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/cover.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/princesszelda.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/fishing.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/15.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/14.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/13.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/12.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/11.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/normal_10.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/normal_9.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/8.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/7.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/6.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/5.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/4.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/3.jpg
http://www.zeldauniverse.net/gallery/albums/misc/magscans/egm-may05/2.jpg
http://www.jeuxpo.com/images/gamecube/newzelda14.jpg
http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/04/26-1053415119L.gif
http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/04/26-1043111025L.gif
http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/04/26-1046555042L.gif
http://www.glowfoto.com/images/2005/04/26-1052371669L.gif
Post by: Savior on April 26, 2005, 09:12:39 PM
Artbooks, DVDs.... and SOUNDTRACKs i want the whole package... Wish Nintendo did something like that for sure. Not just a T Shirt
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 26, 2005, 10:28:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Bill, thanks for linking that artwork. I now seriously want Nintendo to give an artbook as an offer to everyone that pre-orders the game.
I agree with Paladin in that it looks like they are making it a forceful contrast. I could be totally wrong but I think that in this game all the species that usually were "friends" with link are going to become enemies.
Edit: Eeeks! I just got this terrifying idea, what if Zelda also goes against Link?! *slaps his face so he wakes up from nightmare* .
That's actually a very dawnting (sp?) stab in the dark. We've already seen a Goron fight Link in the overworld. Now you have what looks like a Sheikah Mage of some sort, somewhat young and ruthless looking. It's very possible that he is the new enemy.
It seems as if Link could be battling a magician that may/may not ressurect Ganondorf.
Very nice artwork by the way. I want a soundtrack, but an artwork book would be nice also.
EDIT: I'd like to add one more thing. In that very pic, it looks like the castles in the background are in flames. It might be the way the artist decided to display the castles, but still, it's interesting to say the least.
Couple that with the flying monster BIRDS, that soar above the castles and you have well....the plot.....almost.
Post by: Artimus on April 26, 2005, 10:55:53 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on April 27, 2005, 02:48:38 AM
This is without a doubt the most I've ever wanted any game ever. That art is sweeeet. Time to go crop for wallpaper.
And Princess Zelda's looking hawt.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on April 27, 2005, 05:44:22 AM
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6
Picture 7
Picture 8
Picture 9
Picture 10
Picture 11
Picture 12
Picture 13
Picture 14
Picture 15
Picture 16
Picture 17
Picture 18
Picture 19
Picture 20
Picture 21
Picture 22
Also, did anyone notcie the picture with Link being happy or mean? If that's the way the game is giving the expressions, then I'm all for it. One of the things I loved about WW was how Link's expressions changed from time to time and it just brought a smile on my face seeing him smile when he saw his Aryll [but made me laugh like crazy seeing him get plowed into the side of the Tower of the Gods though] ;-)
Post by: vudu on April 27, 2005, 09:51:57 AM
QuoteWhich picture is that? (i.e. which number from the above links?) I'm trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible, but I'm interested in this one.
Also, did anyone notcie the picture with Link being happy or mean?
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 27, 2005, 10:15:48 AM
Post by: IceCold on April 27, 2005, 03:58:24 PM
The artwork is amazing - the title page looks great as well, and I think that after we'll have played the game and we look at it again, we will understand so much more
Post by: Pepsolman on April 27, 2005, 04:11:51 PM
I had to sell out and buy a ps2 as the better investment...
Too many delays... not enough games... too much childishness... I need to play GTA... got tired of playing the first RE re-make... didn't give a crap about Mario sunshine or any kind of sunshiny smiley tiku tiku tiku! thing anymore... fed up with it
The final straw was knowing that the awesome zelda footage we all saw was all for the imagination... and we were given a step back... it's like Metallica making reload and why they don't want to put out any of the stuff from the recordings they made before james went into rehab... no time for rehash and moonwalks...
Now they are finally giving us a step foward... time evolve where we left off with the 64... that was the original desire and hopes
There will be many heads turned for this game and it will be 3 times more successful than WindWaker. I don't doubt that one bit.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 27, 2005, 04:28:54 PM
To make this post more useful: ZELDA IS HAWT.
Post by: Robotor on April 27, 2005, 04:30:57 PM
Also in regards to the castle/wolf juxtaposition on the Cover. Maybe this is to symbolise the fact that Link has been removed from the castle, and is now residing in the wilderness. Furthermore the wolf could represent the fact that Link is now alone, as in the "lone wolf" persona. As shown with the fighting goron, Link's normal friends haves abandoned him. Just a thought
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 27, 2005, 04:48:31 PM
You really need to do something about that insecurity problem. You can live in constant fear of everyone doubting your masculinity.
Post by: Famicom on April 27, 2005, 07:31:10 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 27, 2005, 11:21:52 PM
He continued to say that Miyamoto was the one that shot down the idea, and furthermore, that he finds the news extremely dissapointing!
YES!
I love you Miyamoto.
Post by: Kokoro on April 27, 2005, 11:26:52 PM
Post by: Shecky on April 28, 2005, 03:35:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
[Matt from IGN] continued to say that Miyamoto was the one that shot down the idea, and furthermore, that [Matt] finds the news extremely dissapointing!
So a friend of mine started rambling about all the different speculations he had read off an article from IGN, and I swear it sounded like those IGN folks were playing way too much WoW and it was poisoning they're judgement. Voice acting doesn't fall into that category, but overall I found their anticipations polluted...
Post by: vudu on April 28, 2005, 09:31:42 AM
QuoteYou realize video game consoles aren't the wisest of investments, right? They typically tend to lose value over time. Same with cars, any type of electronic device, clothing, etc. You might want to look into getting some stocks or bonds. Mutual funds are a pretty safe investment, too. And if you have the cash, you can't go wrong with buying property.
Originally posted by: Pepsolman
When I sold my GameCube... there were a number of reasons that frustrated me out of the investment I had made.
I had to sell out and buy a ps2 as the better investment...
Post by: Caliban on April 28, 2005, 09:36:07 AM
Do the voices yourself while you're playing!
Easy, cheap, and no complaints.
Btw, there's at cube-europe.com some clean artwork of the new Zelda and Link shown from EGM. Zelda looks wicked, Link needs some armor to look a little more agressive
.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 28, 2005, 10:03:58 AM
Post by: Gamefreak on April 28, 2005, 11:41:05 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 28, 2005, 11:57:01 AM
Post by: mantidor on April 28, 2005, 04:37:52 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 28, 2005, 04:39:31 PM
Post by: Mario on April 28, 2005, 05:04:40 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on April 28, 2005, 09:07:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
If you've seen EGM's Zelda screenies you should see that particular scenario is VERY unlikely...
I've seen them. Care to explain more?
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 29, 2005, 07:17:26 AM
Post by: Artimus on April 29, 2005, 07:38:31 AM
Post by: SgtShiversBen on April 29, 2005, 10:17:39 AM
This Cowboy Link impersonating the real Link would be something crazy I think. He's living a lie.
Post by: mantidor on April 29, 2005, 10:24:23 AM
or the most realistic explanation, since the trailer is just an early build of the game the lack of sword most than likely is a bug or they programmers didnt put it for in ther for some odd reason that has nothing to do with the gameplay.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 29, 2005, 10:54:29 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 29, 2005, 11:15:24 AM
Probably yeah. I don't usually pay attention to my sword being out or not and since I'm always cutting grass and signs and stuff odds are I would have it drawn. It's not like Zelda is one of those games where the game plays different in "attack mode" or whatever.
The most logical explanation for anything Link does however is that the person playing the demo is just doing whatever. Most of the time in trailers the player isn't even playing very well.
Post by: Caliban on April 29, 2005, 06:01:39 PM
Post by: LinkZero on April 29, 2005, 07:39:26 PM
Then after the fight, they became friend when he found out that link is good
Post by: King of Twitch on April 29, 2005, 08:06:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
New screens and artwork at www.jeux-france.com/news9800_the-legend-of-zelda-en-images.html.
According to one of the scans: "But if you don't lock on you can now swipe your sword as you move around, without stopping"
Genius! This is going to be so smooth.
Wind Waker seems to have started a weird precedent of not having Link in a green tunic in the beginning, but I'm not sure if I like it.
http://www.jeux-france.com/afficher_images.html?Image_big=Webmasters/Images/3024320050421_203550_4_big.jpg
Personal translation: 'Although Link will already be mature in the beginning of the adventure, he also will be maturing little by little with the passing of time.' I guess that's already been discussed, srry nm.
I wonder if it just means he will change into adult clothes, his personality will change, or something deeper. Can't wait.
My prediction: Link is actually the incarnate culmination of Hyrule's native animal-people species; he becomes mature once he gains the ability to transform into each of them. He was given this ability by the gods at his birth and the triforce pieces allow him to transform.
Post by: Miyamoto Osaki on April 30, 2005, 11:19:53 PM
And the thing about the new outfit that Link wears, I think that might be his training suit, all that stuff he carries around his body looks like they help him get used to running around with the usual things he carries.
Hey I might be wrong and from today, I am not going to look for anymore info,trailers and pic's for "The Legend of Zelda", this way I am more surprised and happier with the game. It will be the most hardest thing I have ever done but the end result will be the best.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 01, 2005, 07:22:26 AM
I understand this logic, since it's kinda like not listening to sample tracks of your favorite artist so you can be blown away by the album.
However (you knew it was coming), this is a game were talking about....a Zelda game. Most of the what is shown now or later won't spoil any of the surprises in the game. Maybe it's just my excuse, but seeing trailers, clips, and reading previews only get me more excited, not more depressed about not feeling the geniune surprise.
Post by: stevey on May 01, 2005, 10:15:57 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on May 01, 2005, 01:26:01 PM
Anyway.
Yeah, Stevey, we know the Goron's a bad guy, unless he's training Link or Zelda's gone Rogue Agent on us.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 03, 2005, 10:35:09 AM
Post by: Robotor on May 03, 2005, 01:43:34 PM
Cannot wait, is there a definitive release date yet? Or do we have to wait the eons till E3 to know?
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 03, 2005, 01:51:39 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 03, 2005, 02:52:01 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 03, 2005, 03:28:42 PM
*Reggie jumps in, takes the sword, and hands Rink the Reggie Mask*
"This is all you'll need to KICK ASS."
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 03, 2005, 11:08:18 PM
It's MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...ahem...
If the boars and goblin beasts are any indication, it looks like WindWaker inspirations' made their way into the game.
Post by: nemo_83 on May 04, 2005, 12:28:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
What the hell is with all the Reggie icons?
It's MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...ahem...
If the boars and goblin beasts are any indication, it looks like WindWaker inspirations' made their way into the game.
check out general chat. its time to put on those rubby red a$$ kicking boots.
Post by: mantidor on May 04, 2005, 06:45:59 AM
as far as I know, the evil guys in the Zelda series have always been pig-like, their first appearance wasnt in the Wind waker. The nice looking purple smoke that comes out when you kill an enemy is indeed Wind waker inspiration though.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 04, 2005, 09:53:33 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 04, 2005, 10:01:20 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 04, 2005, 10:58:14 AM
In Link to the Past and other games they seem to have shared characteristics. I figured they were generally accepted to be pigs, though.
Edit: They seemed to be a perfect hybrid in the original (from the artwork, they have a bulldog mouth but a very pig-like snout). Some games bounced back and forth on emphasis, and they ended up being primarily pigs (as of Wind Waker and Minish Cap).
Post by: Ian Sane on May 04, 2005, 11:16:41 AM
But then this is Zelda, a series infamous for having such poor continuity you would think each game was made by different people. The timeline already doesn't make any sense and Zoras for some reason completely changed their appearance in Ocarina of Time so realistically Moblins aren't a high priority. Nintendo doesn't care if new Zelda games are consistent with the old ones so we might as well not waste our time trying to justify stuff that doesn't make sense.
Post by: Mr. Segali on May 04, 2005, 11:26:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Edit: They seemed to be a perfect hybrid in the original (from the artwork, they have a bulldog mouth but a very pig-like snout). Some games bounced back and forth on emphasis, and they ended up being primarily pigs (as of Wind Waker and Minish Cap).
Yeah, but in WW they sorta "animalized" all the badguys. Look at the Wizrobes... they were frickin' toucans. Even the Stalfos didn't seem that human-like. I think that was just a theme they were going for in WW (and Minish Cap just followed suit). I think moblins were intended to be pig/bulldog hybrids like in the previous games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 04, 2005, 11:27:12 AM
Yeah, it seems that Ninty can't seem to decide whether Moblins are dogs are pigs...LoZ - Bulldog
AoL - Bulldog
LttP - Bulldog & Pig (I've personally always thought the spike-headed soldiers in the Dark World were dog-like)
LA - Bulldog & Pig
Ocarina of Time - Bulldog
Oracles - Bulldog & Pig
Wind Waker - Pig
Minish Cap - Pig
Zelda XII - Pig (for now)
Due to the recent trend, it's likely that Ninty has finally chosen pig-like characteristics...
Post by: Pepsolman on May 04, 2005, 02:48:33 PM
I do notice when the newest director was confronted by the question about the graphical style chosen for Wind Waker, there really wasn't a straight answer except for that it is used for a purpose... and it is admitted that it has caused question and caused lots of fans to stray.
He does show disappointment in the fact that there were many who never even played Wind Waker because of the questioned graphics. They do exsists... many of them... and very frustrated. There are great reasons for this and it should be understood by even the hardcore Zelda fans, instead of bashing those who think different.
I am a zelda fan because I like the characters, the story, the sounds... all of these have their roots...
But it is like a Mustang... make it look like a Honda and it just doesn't seem the same. Yet, still some will buy it for the simple fact that it is a Mustang.
And seeing this latest turn is an obvious exception to the problem. They know what sells. And believe tormenting us first was an extra boost to make this next Zelda sell.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 04, 2005, 04:26:09 PM
Anyway, it does have a purpose. The game was supposed to feel whismical, it's a reflection of childhood, it made the game seem lighter in accordance with the wind theme, and the developers wanted to experiment with a new, beautiful style.
Either way, I have every right to ridicule idiots who whine about the graphics. "I like mature grafix and have no artistic taste and OoT rocks because everyone else thinks so."
Post by: mantidor on May 04, 2005, 05:40:19 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 04, 2005, 07:17:43 PM
I think he just indirectly admitted to not even playing the game.
Ignore the baseless garbage he parades as an opinion.
Post by: IceCold on May 04, 2005, 07:53:31 PM
"But it is like a Mustang... make it look like a Honda and it just doesn't seem the same. Yet, still some will buy it for the simple fact that it is a Mustang."
What in the name of hell are you talking about. "make it look like a Honda??" tWW's graphics were beautiful - it's more like making it look like a special edition Mustang
Post by: Raven52 on May 05, 2005, 04:34:31 AM
*(SPOILERS AHEAD)* Just in case you haven't played yet.
To me the difference in has a great significance in the story of the game. You are not playing as Link and the character playing as Zelda is technically an ancestor to the original princess. I look at difference in graphics as a way to somewhat make sure that you as the player knows that he or she is not playing as the actual Link. Never once so far while playing this game did I think I was actually playing as Link. But it still feels like Zelda. But as everyone knows, the next Zelda game is building up to what could be one of the most beautiful games ever created. But no Zelda fan should pass on ZWW. If you are a true fan of the series, you should love ZWW just like all of the others.
To me though, Link To The Past was the greatest Zelda game of all. OoT was incredible but I have actually played Link To The Past all the way through at least 5 times because I enjoy the gameplay so much.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 05, 2005, 06:37:44 AM
I have no idea why people think this, but you ARE Link, and it IS Zelda...There is not just one Link and one Zelda in the entire Zelda universe...The idea of Link is the warrior spirit is passed down and arises whenever the need to save the world appears...Yes, the King of Red Lions DID say he wasn't the hero, but he was WRONG...Ganondorf talks about this before you fight his puppet, about how Link is basically the reincarnation of the Hero of Time...So get this straight...In every Zelda game you play as a character named Link, YOU ARE LINK!
Post by: couchmonkey on May 05, 2005, 06:47:03 AM
Speaking of the EGM interview, (see link in Mantidor's post below, sorry) posted some extra stuff that didn't make it into the magazine, and it's very much worth reading. The description of Nintendo HQ is kind of fun, the interview with Aonuma is okay, but kind of predictable, but the interview with Koji Kondo is awesome. I don't think I've read any interviews with him before and he went into quite a bit of historical detail. I just wish the writer would quit writing censored swears all the time. Putting s--t and f--king everywhere comes off as kinda unprofessional. If you can't write the words, don't use them. I guess EGM wants to look cool in front of it's 16 year old friends.
Edit: What the heck? My link was broken in deeply strange and disturbing ways. :{
Post by: TMW on May 05, 2005, 08:33:58 AM
Two...they completely ruined the Tetra/Zelda bit. Tetra was this awesome woman, captain of her own pirate ship, for crying out loud. Take Charge, In Command kinda gal. But the second it's revealed she's actually a princess, she gets "trophy'd" and turns back into the stereotypical "helpless female", stuck back at the castle while the men go out and kill things.
However...it does not seem to be the case in LoZ2k5. The piece of art with her wearing armor and the sword has done alot to make me that much more excited about the game.
That, and the fact that it's supposed to be like, three times larger than OOT isn't hurting either.
==
Oh...and Couchmonkey..your link takes me to the Microsoft website, yo.
Are you trying to imply something about EGM?
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2005, 09:16:38 AM
Parts I liked from the interview:
Aunoma doesnt want the game to be dark, he wants the game to be a contrast between very lighten with very dark, nd also very sad moments and very happy moments, thats just too awesome.
The finally were able to manage the wind, so even if the wind is not a main part of the game, it will be there and will affect the game (even more awesome)
The interview with Kondo is indeed great.
as for tWW's Zelda, I think that she acted like that because she found herself in shoes that certainly didnt fit her, I mean from pirate to princess? thats enough to left anyone in shock, but remember that in the last battle she actually helps, she isnt a damsel in distress.
Its true that the game was short in the number of dungeons, as I replay OoT I miss the fact that tWW has only two dungeons after the default three dungeons of almost every Zelda game, but both of this were really great, I heard that they had to cut the number of dungeons because they were out of schedule, its that right?.
Post by: TMW on May 05, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
Aunouma kept talking about contrast between light and dark...and I think the was talking about lighting in general, not the tone of the game.
==
As for Zelda...yes, I suppose there would be a shock to learning that you are, in fact, a princess. But that didn't change who she was. And it wasn't up to her, anyways. IIRC, it's the King of Red Lions who locks her away for her own safety...except that wouldn't she be more safe on a moving ship in the middle of a giant ocean?
And yeah...I know it was two dungeons short. But the fact that they meant for two more dungeons to be put in does not change the fact that they did not put them in the game. Don't get me wrong, I loved it. I bought my Gamecube solely for The Wind Waker. I just...felt they could get past the machismo and let Zelda have a larger role in the game as a whole...not just at the end (like in OOT...more or less).
Post by: norebonomis on May 05, 2005, 11:59:55 AM
Quote
Most of my big questions go unanswered -- about the game's name, any kind of new, important gameplay mechanic, the Goron boxing, etc. When I ask about the rumors that Link is a werewolf, he gets a funny look on his face. "If Link is...?" he asks the translator, then says he can't answer the question. It's tough to read, but if I had to guess, I'd say his reaction sounded less like surprise I had hit on something and more like I had just gotten the name wrong...
Post by: couchmonkey on May 05, 2005, 01:48:39 PM
) I suppose there might be some logic for doing it that way - they didn't want to have Zelda following Link around for the rest of the game, for example - but I don't think it fit her character at all.It may sound weird, but I think it would have made way more sense for the King to basically imprison her by force and for her to be mad when she found out they were leaving her behind rather than for her to just agree to it.
Post by: stevey on May 06, 2005, 04:14:22 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 06, 2005, 04:36:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 06, 2005, 04:37:46 PM
Post by: stevey on May 07, 2005, 01:45:06 PM
Aunoma's statements he dosen't know when to put it in the 1000 year gap bewteen oot-ww and the ww2 dose mean after it mgs3
Post by: Nephilim on May 07, 2005, 02:47:43 PM
I think that means there evil/bad guys, explains why he is fighting them
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 07, 2005, 05:02:07 PM
Quote
But the second it's revealed she's actually a princess, she gets "trophy'd" and turns back into the stereotypical "helpless female", stuck back at the castle while the men go out and kill things.
I never really got this logic. Her actions seemed totally believable to me (someone who's had experience developing characters realistically). She suddenly turns into a princess, finds out that she possesses a fragment of the Triforce which ties her to the very fate of the entire world. That is shocking, and no pirate knows what to do in that situation. She robs people and sails the seas, she doesn't save the world and protect herself from the most fearsome of evils. Also, keep in mind that Tetra is not 100% tough. Emotion shows through quite often, even while she's Tetra. She's still a little girl, and a lot of the time the tough attitude is just a facade.
Gradually she recovers somewhat from the shock. When with Ganondorf, who's obviously much more powerful than her, she's mostly unconscious. When she does recover consciousness she gets up, pulls Link's sword out of the stone tower, and brings it to him. Together, they fight Ganondorf. She was more involved the OoT Zelda. Ganondorf knocked her out flat at one point and she still got up to keep fighting. When they're talking to the King, there's no reason to be tough. He's a very fatherly figure. She slips into a more child-like and innocent persona. They return to the surface and she turns back into Tetra, acting fairly normally.
But yes, new Zelda looks very bad-ass.
Post by: Nephilim on May 07, 2005, 07:20:21 PM
OOT:she was trained in sercet arts and was also Shiek, meaning she didnt just stand there going "help me", she would of proberly had her own small adventure and had to do stuff in the time between link being a child and a adult
WW: people have already stated this
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 07, 2005, 08:06:45 PM
Samus, anybody? And even Princess Peach, as you would know if you played Paper Mario 2. And maybe Kirby... I've never been quite sure about that little pink puffball's sexuality.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 07, 2005, 08:13:26 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 07, 2005, 08:47:12 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 07, 2005, 08:49:02 PM
Post by: stevey on May 08, 2005, 04:49:20 AM
I think that means there evil/bad guys, explains why he is fighting them "
Did I say that on the last page DeadlyD. Do some reading.
kirby is male on an ad said I hate him,jigglypuff female
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 08, 2005, 04:59:01 AM
Post by: TMW on May 08, 2005, 09:39:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Nintendo in general is the last company you should point a finger at about perpetuating sexist female stereotypes.
Samus, anybody? And even Princess Peach, as you would know if you played Paper Mario 2. And maybe Kirby... I've never been quite sure about that little pink puffball's sexuality.
Yeah. And I didn't. Pointing out one instance in one game does not mean I'm saying Nintendo is run by a bunch of woman hating machismo types. All I'm saying is that they could have done the Zelda/Tetra bit alot better. Hell, it probably wasn't intentional. That doesn't mean I have to like it.
===
As for the male/female dilemma...I refer you to Birdo.
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2005, 05:41:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
In the anime, Jigglypuff is definitely a female...Or a male that happens to want to be a pop diva and wears bows (Super Smash Brothers)
really? then the translators messed up, because spanish is less ambigous about gender than english, something like "Jigglypuff was furious" doesnt gave away any gender while " Jigglypuf estaba furioso" means hes male, for female it should be "furiosa". From the show in spanish its clear that hes male. I see the little pink puffball as someone who wants to find another person who can listen to its song completly, and thats why he gets so furious when everyone falls asleep, I cant see him as someone who wants to be a pop diva, the bow its unexplicable for me though LOL
(I know, very offtopic, but I had to answer
)ok, to not leave this post just like that Im going to add this: discussing in another forum the topic about the gerudo race showed up. The most intriguing part was how Ganondorf's mothers were twins, and based on OoT's story (and the gerudo race) if you take it literally the game basically says that Ganondorf is the result of an homosexual an besides incestual relationship, something that didnt bother to me at all when I played the game but now that I think about it is really creepy, whats your opinions on the matter?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 08, 2005, 06:08:07 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 08, 2005, 06:14:04 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 08, 2005, 06:19:47 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2005, 07:59:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
The Gerudo women did venture into Hyrule boundaries at night "to have fun" with Hylian males, according to one of the Gossip Stones.
OMG really!? I never checked every single Gossip Stone, or maybe I did, but I didnt care about this one in particular by that time, and this explains everything for me now, thanks ^_^
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 09, 2005, 10:25:19 AM
Quote
Jigglypuf estaba furioso" means hes male, for female it should be "furiosa"
Couldn't they be refering to Jiggly-Wiggly as an "it"?
KIRBY IS BOY
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 09, 2005, 11:09:57 AM
"They say that Gerudos sometimes come to Hyrule Castle Town to look for boyfriends" is the actual quote...
Post by: kennyb27 on May 09, 2005, 01:35:17 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 09, 2005, 02:22:27 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 09, 2005, 03:06:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kennyb27
Bill, did you pop in the game to find that? You have certainly garnered some extra respect with that.
I specifically remember the location of that Gossip Stone and the one involving Malon wishing for a knight to come and sweep her off her feet...Both can be found just outside the Temple of Time... ^_^
Post by: stevey on May 10, 2005, 09:27:15 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2005, 09:45:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothingQuote
Jigglypuf estaba furioso" means hes male, for female it should be "furiosa"
Couldn't they be refering to Jiggly-Wiggly as an "it"?
theres no "it" pronoun in spanish.
I cant recall how to get biggoron's sword completly, but I know it all starts with the white cucco you get when adult... let me see if I remember, after getting the cucco from the "cucco girl" (I forgot her name >_<!) you wake up Talon who is in a house in kakariko village, then you give the cucoo back and she gives you the rare blue cuccoo, you use it with the weird looking guy in the lost woods (which I dont remember where exactly) then he gives you the mushrooms, and you give them to the witch (in kakariko village behind the fence, you must use a cucoo to get there) and this is where I forgot what she gives you >_> I think she gaves you the ingredients that the scientist guy in lake hylia uses to make the eye drops so you can cure the goron who is in top of death mountain, all this must be made while adult.
Its a pretty nice sidequest, but I prefer Kafei /anju's quest in MM, it was so involving, ^_^ I cant wait to play the sidequest of the new game.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 10, 2005, 09:52:10 AM
Quote
theres no "it" pronoun in spanish
I didn't actually mean that
I thought that if the gender was unspecified that it defaulted to using the masculine form, like we use "it" in English. I still don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I meant =p
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2005, 11:52:41 AM
1) Talk to Anju (Cucco lady) as an adult to get an egg
2) Wait for the egg to hatch (use the Sun's Song)
3) Use the newly hatched Cucco to wake up Talon (who is sleeping in the first house you come to when you enter Kakariko)
4) Talk to Anju again to retrieve Cojiro the blue Cucco
5) Enter the Lost Woods from Kokiri Village and then take the left tunnel...You'll see the creepy guy from Kakariko sitting by the stump...Wake him up with Cojiro
6) The man will give you a mushroom, which you must quickly (you are timed) take to the potion lady in Kakariko (must use cucco to jump over fence near the windmill)
7) You will receive a potion to take back to the man (not timed)...However, when you return, the man will be gone and a Kokiri will be there instead...
8) After bitching you out, she'll take the mushroom potion and give you the Poacher's Saw.
9) Take the saw to the Head Carpenter who is on the other side of the bridge in Gerudo Valley...You'll receive the Broken Goron's Sword
10) Time to go to Death Mountain Trail...Head up to the top to find Biggoron...You can't miss him...He'll give you a Prescription...
11) Take the Prescription to King Zora (who needs to be unthawed with Blue Flame you can get in the Ice Cavern)...He'll send you on another timed trade with an Eyeball Frog
12) If you get to Lake Hylia in time, you can talk to the Doc for some Eyedrops...Of course, this is another timed quest, so make your way up to Death Mountain Trail again to Biggoron (using Epona is recommended, of course)
13) Biggoron will be happy and will make your sword...It will take 3 days and nights though...
As for being able to understand the Gossip Stones, you must have the Mask of Truth...To get this mask, you complete the sale of every other mask...
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 10, 2005, 01:29:39 PM
Quote
Bill, did you pop in the game to find that? You have certainly garnered some extra respect with that.
I remember it too, actually. I'm great and remembering tons of details from books, movies, and video games, I've got a good memory for that sort of thing. I've noticed the same stuff with Bill and his Zelda info.
As for Biggoron's sword, I couldn't ever make it up the mountain in time. I wasn't really concerned about it, so I gave up after maybe two or three tries and did something else.
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2005, 03:37:12 PM
so I found this nice roundtable after all this time and I want to hear the conference only to find out the file is down T_T
Post by: couchmonkey on May 11, 2005, 10:39:00 AM
It was very bizarre.
Post by: Smashman on May 11, 2005, 06:43:52 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 11, 2005, 07:02:20 PM
Go away! Shoo SHOO!
Post by: mantidor on May 12, 2005, 04:09:21 AM
if anything, tWW was a pleasant surprise, dissapointment means people expected much from the game and it didnt deliver, which wasnt the case, since tWW detractors made up their minds way before the game was even released, based solely on the graphics. I doubt that all these people who call the game a "dissapointment" were very exited about the graphics and when playing the game for some odd reason it didnt deliver as much as the wanted, that would be a real "dissapointment", the majority of tWW detractors are just shallow people who judge the book by its cover.
It makes me really feel sad for the gaming community, its like most people were eager to find defects of the game just to justify that its not just the graphics that make the game "bad" in their minds:
"the sailing was tedious", so what? now that Im replaying OoT Ive realized how terribly tedious it was to change the iron boots for normal boots (something they improved in tWW, but of course no one praises that) in the water temple, but it didnt stop these same people to love OoT as "teh best game ever!!1".
"too easy", so? OoT wasnt hard at all, except for some puzzles, and guess what? tWW had many challenging puzzles too (I got stuck a long time because I couldnt find those damn arrows). The challenge of all Zelda games resides in its puzzles, not in bosses that have twice as much energy as you do.
"too short", I really dont need to elaborate on this one, since it simply isnt true.
Post by: stevey on May 12, 2005, 11:58:45 AM
"I can't wait anymore. Even though tWW was terrible disappointing, I really hope this game beats out OoT. "Smashman I HATE YOU!!! my evil money will kill you !
Post by: TMW on May 12, 2005, 04:53:33 PM
I hate to break it to you...but Wind Waker wasn't perfect.
It was a great game, but not perfect.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 12, 2005, 04:59:55 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 12, 2005, 05:01:24 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 12, 2005, 05:33:15 PM
But tWW is "teh awesome", I havent heard a valid reason to not think it is a really great game, unless you just dont like Zelda games, which is fine for me. It was far, very far from dissapointing.
Post by: Shecky on May 12, 2005, 07:03:52 PM
So why does every race have to be friendly to the "Hylians" if you will...
Previous titles have often just referred to a time where "not everyone got along"... I think OOT refers to it for both gorons and zoras.... (Note, I'm in the ... "I don't care about continuity or timelines ... I have an imagination, thank you" camp)
In reality it could be hundreds of reasons... a rogue goron... a typical goron... not even a goron!
So the speculation at this stage may be a fun exercise, but I wouldn't get zealous about it
Post by: mantidor on May 12, 2005, 07:51:26 PM
Post by: stevey on May 13, 2005, 09:46:25 AM
3 Day to e3 and a new zelda vid
Post by: Savior on May 13, 2005, 02:23:38 PM
Post by: Chris1 on May 13, 2005, 02:36:01 PM
http://home.comcast.net/~lazie4351/NintendoE3.jpg
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 13, 2005, 02:39:58 PM
I'm not going to believe that, it's just too good to be true. I'm not going to be let down again.
Must... erase... memory!
Thank God... Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones comes out this month. This is fake. I squashed this before I could get my hopes up.
Post by: mantidor on May 13, 2005, 05:17:48 PM
Post by: Caillan on May 13, 2005, 10:53:49 PM
"What I'm most intrigued by, however, is the wolf mechanic. Link changes into the beast."
EDIT: Better put that in spoiler tags in case it turns out to be true.
Post by: TMW on May 14, 2005, 12:12:05 AM
Post by: TMW on May 14, 2005, 12:15:54 AM
Quote
I expect more polish, more production values, and definitely some new gameplay elements...
Wait...what? More production values?
I didn't know the series was lacking in production values.
Oh wait! Unless, of course, she means voice acting.
And they seemed to be focused on the rumor of Link transforming into a wolf.
Am I the only one who doesn't like that idea? It just...I don't know.
Well, if they do have that in the game, I know they'll pull it off and make it fun...but as of now, going in, I don't like it.
=====
EDIT: What the? Er...sorry about that.
Post by: Caillan on May 14, 2005, 12:25:18 AM
I don't usually keep up with IGN. I know Matt continually lied about talking to Silicon Knights. Does he do this often? In earlier mail bags he said he 'had a hunch' that you'd turn into a wolf. Or something. But now he's outright stating it.
Post by: Renny on May 14, 2005, 04:52:06 AM
Post by: Artimus on May 14, 2005, 06:55:15 AM
Unlike the majority of IGN writers he actually has a concept of art direction. He thinks MP and RE4 are pretty much the best looking console games evah.
And how did he lie about SK? He's been talking about that interview for months.
Post by: mantidor on May 14, 2005, 07:58:11 AM
and I really doubt the wolf thing its true.
edit:
oh the one who mentioned the production values was Fran, who is a confirmed idiot, I mean: " The [boss battles] need to meet and exceed the kind of visceral experience that God of War recently delivered on.", LOL at least he admits thats superficial.
Post by: Caillan on May 14, 2005, 03:50:39 PM
Quote
And how did he lie about SK?
He kept on saying that he was going to go up to Canada for a weekend and get the real story. What really happened with Silicon Knights. That was several months ago, and it did not occur. Even after the video interview it hasn't really happened. If he realised he couldn't get much because all parties were under confidentiality contracts, he should have said so and dropped the 'just wait a few more days!' tag.
I didn't call him an idiot.
Post by: mantidor on May 14, 2005, 07:00:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caillan
I didn't call him an idiot.
That would be me
Maybe Im a bit too loud with my personal dislike for the man, but as much as I hate to admit it, IGN is one if not the most popular video game site around, and Matt's journalism is hurtful for Nintendo, it really is. I dont want him to pretend Ninty is still the king, but things like "cel.da" or "die, tingle,die" or the tons of "Nintendo is doom3d" editorials are honestly missleading. he has improved a lot though, I remember some time ago I was totally pissed off about the whole cube section in general and I just stop going there for news.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 15, 2005, 07:37:44 AM
"Scan"
Post by: mantidor on May 15, 2005, 08:10:53 AM
Post by: Artimus on May 15, 2005, 09:15:41 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 15, 2005, 09:28:05 AM
Post by: MattVDB on May 15, 2005, 09:29:03 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 15, 2005, 11:51:48 AM
Game Informer is North American.
Their new cover mentions nothing about this: cover.
But Rick says it's real... so better start getting used to Twilight Princess anyway. I like it.
Post by: mantidor on May 15, 2005, 03:17:53 PM
Post by: Arbok on May 15, 2005, 03:27:03 PM
Why couldn't they have just gone for "Legend of Zelda: Twilight"?
Post by: Artimus on May 15, 2005, 03:36:20 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 15, 2005, 04:29:57 PM
Post by: Robotor on May 15, 2005, 05:20:55 PM
Post by: Renny on May 15, 2005, 05:50:13 PM
Sounds like the princess is doing some moonlighting. Not enough rupees in the bush for all those "skulltulas," huh Zelda?
Post by: King of Twitch on May 15, 2005, 06:39:53 PM
Twilight makes for some interesting plot possiblities
1. The diffused light from the sky during the early evening or early morning when the sun is below the horizon and its light is refracted by the earth's atmosphere.
2. The time of the day when the sun is just below the horizon, especially the period between sunset and dark.
>>DUALITY
2. Dim or diffused illumination.
3. A period or condition of decline following growth, glory, or success: in the twilight of his life.
>>Interesting, if you imagine a plot describing Hyrule after WW
4. A state of ambiguity or obscurity.
source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=twilight
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 15, 2005, 06:54:40 PM
Nintendo's probably just using "twilight" because of its connotations of "dark", which suggests that the character at Link's back in the EGM cover artwork is Zelda.
I'll be withholding cookies from the people who don't like the title. Don't even think about starting a black market either... violators of my cookie sanctions will be shot.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 15, 2005, 07:09:53 PM
Watch the GDC trailer one more time and you might discover the (most likely) twist for the game... ^_^
Post by: IceCold on May 15, 2005, 07:56:23 PM
QuoteBy whom, the cookie monster? Don't worry, I'll be your enforcer, but I'm afraid a second economy is inevitable, especially considering the sudden demand for the new chocolate Tim Hortons ones.
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
I'll be withholding cookies from the people who don't like the title. Don't even think about starting a black market either... violators of my cookie sanctions will be shot.
I like the title personally. A Zelda subtitle is not chosen without a lot of thought put in to it, and it will have an integral part in the game. I'm sure when we're all done the game we'll look back and say, "What a great title!" Take "Link's Awakening" for instance...
Post by: MrMojoRising on May 15, 2005, 10:22:10 PM
Am I spelling werewolf right?
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 15, 2005, 10:31:15 PM
Zelda being a werewolf would probably mean she's only a princess in the literal twilight (sunset to dark), and probably that cloaked figure in the day.
I can see Ganon cursing her and you having to find, cure and restore her for the story's goal.
It still feels weird to be taking that scan as fact... guess we'll confirmation either way in a day and a half's time.
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 16, 2005, 01:37:00 AM
The Phantom Princess
Attack of the Thrones
Revenge of the Sheik
E3 and Ep 3 in the same week, God loves me so much.
Post by: stevey on May 16, 2005, 09:29:23 AM
2. The time of the day when the sun is just below the horizon, especially the period between sunset and dark." or sunrise and light. I like the name but it can be better (princess of twilight)
"I think if "Twilight Princess" is the title then it gives more evidence towards Zelda being the werewolf like creature. Maybe you'll even have to fight werewolf zelda without killing her at one point."
no one a werewolf ; ( lisen to the music after the wolf in the vid, it just to so loneyness and that he out in the wild and 50% changs it a caino.
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 16, 2005, 11:31:37 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 16, 2005, 01:51:07 PM
The spiffy new logo is on Gamespot.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 16, 2005, 01:58:14 PM
Post by: Mario on May 16, 2005, 01:59:36 PM
Post by: Shecky on May 16, 2005, 02:46:02 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 16, 2005, 02:57:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Here you go people! An absolutely incredible logo...
... Which once again makes the most striking feature of the design the wolf. Fantastic logo. Love the light reflecting / refracting off of the wolf, makes it sparkle good.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on May 16, 2005, 03:00:30 PM
Quote
Here you go people! An absolutely incredible logo...
::changes pants::
Post by: Robotor on May 16, 2005, 04:00:30 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 16, 2005, 04:09:08 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 16, 2005, 04:22:50 PM
Logo is incredible. Great stuff.
Paladin, I think your theory sounds very likely (though I hope Ganon isn't the main villain). I can't wait for tomorrow.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 16, 2005, 04:25:30 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 16, 2005, 04:51:49 PM
The logo is awesome, but even if it wasnt, I wouldnt care about the name that much, its just a name
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 16, 2005, 04:54:44 PM
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything but I do like the word "princess" a whole lot more after that movie.
Post by: joshnickerson on May 16, 2005, 05:11:46 PM
Awesome movie.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 16, 2005, 05:25:15 PM
~~~~~
"Vincent, tear his arms off." "OH you mean THESE keys!"
Post by: jasonditz on May 16, 2005, 05:26:19 PM
Some of you won't be happy unless they call it "The Legend of Zelda: San Andreas Edition".
Post by: Koopa Troopa on May 16, 2005, 05:58:34 PM
Like the title, love the logo.
Post by: TMW on May 16, 2005, 06:14:21 PM
I know! The Wolf has swallowed the Triforce of wisdom, and Link has to track it down and get it out!
Post by: wandering on May 16, 2005, 06:53:20 PM
I really like the name. Better than Wind Waker, not as good as Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask. Would "Twilight of the Princess" be better?
Nah...
Post by: Dasmos on May 16, 2005, 06:59:53 PM
I don't think the twilight princess will be an item...........
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 16, 2005, 07:21:43 PM
Post by: TMW on May 16, 2005, 08:00:26 PM
I can't find it.
Post by: mantidor on May 16, 2005, 08:02:00 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on May 16, 2005, 08:05:42 PM
Post by: TMW on May 16, 2005, 08:07:55 PM
I want the link to the page on Gamespot where they have the logo.
:EDIT:
Or not. Scratch that.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 16, 2005, 10:31:44 PM
I don't mind the word princess. It works with the title, probably totally appropriate. I just can't help but think of pink fluff, though. Still like the title, but I can't help having been conditioned to thinking that way.
Not sure why I liked the title "The Wind Waker" so much. I like the repeating letter ones (MM and WW), they're so to the point but still sound cool. I prefer Twilight Princess to Ocarina of Time, even if it does feel as though something called Twilight Princess Barbie should be on the market.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 16, 2005, 10:37:53 PM
Reggie-senses tingling.
Post by: Mario on May 16, 2005, 10:37:59 PM
NEW ZELDA SCREENS!
Gamespot had them, but took them down "WHOOPS!"
I saved them all! Hang on!
Post by: Mario on May 16, 2005, 10:58:56 PM
they uploaded them first
Post by: MysticGohan24 on May 16, 2005, 11:00:17 PM
lol Mario beat me to it
but yay!
Post by: NW on May 16, 2005, 11:07:12 PM
Post by: TMW on May 16, 2005, 11:10:32 PM
These screens are freakin awesome.
And who is that I saw on that wolf? It sure looked like Vaati!
EDIT
Scratch that, it's not Vaati. It almost looks like it will be like LTTP.
Twilight Princess...alternate reality princess from a land called Twilight?
Post by: Mario on May 16, 2005, 11:42:01 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 17, 2005, 12:05:32 AM
As Shang Tsung said, 'IT HAS BEGUN!!'
~~~~~
What else was I gonna say....
OMG cool wolfie! and who's the little red-eyed person thingie!? LOOKS COOL
WHO'S THE FARM CHICK NEXT TO THE HORSE?!!
The game looks incredible.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2005, 02:52:32 AM
(The wolf looks AWESOME!)
Post by: Gamebasher on May 17, 2005, 05:25:26 AM
HERE!!!
All real crisp and sharp. Just like the game itself, when it comes out!
I need a bigger screen to view these (they must think everyone owns 21" monitors).
God, I LOVE Nintendo!!
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2005, 05:47:58 AM
*downloads the screens and makes one a wallpaper*
Post by: couchmonkey on May 17, 2005, 06:16:49 AM
Looking sweet, these shots are generally much more flattering than most of the stuff we've seen in the last couple of months...I guess partly because they're not magazine scans, but still, nice!Post by: PaLaDiN on May 17, 2005, 06:40:27 AM
Don't kill me... I love the look of this game.
Post by: Mario on May 17, 2005, 09:01:08 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2005, 09:12:57 AM
1:3 !!!!! thats right one to three, for every 1 GC there will be 3 Zelda's, Mark my words, mark them!!!
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 17, 2005, 09:19:47 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on May 17, 2005, 10:15:22 AM
Im pretty sure Link hit that thing that fell out of the tree with his sheild. And it looks like we will be able to use Tornado Boomerangs.
Even though there is going to be very little to no voice acting, I love the way the lips of the characters move when they talk to Link.
Im so excited right now, man I can't wait for this game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mr. Segali on May 17, 2005, 10:19:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
It's wierd how dark and dull everything is during the wolf scenes...
Hmm, aren't dogs/wolves color blind?
Post by: Famicom on May 17, 2005, 10:53:24 AM
Post by: Caterkiller on May 17, 2005, 11:01:04 AM
And it seems that the creature riding Links back paralyzes the "Shadow" creatures with that creepy hand so Link can then hurt them.
Post by: Caillan on May 17, 2005, 11:06:15 AM
Okay, I just saw it and I think it's the best trailer yet. There are still some things they need to work on, particuarly the transformation, but it's still not finished and we know it's going to be awesome anyway. I particuarly liked the music. Around 1:45, if you look closely, Link puts his arm out as an owl is about to land on it.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 17, 2005, 11:42:49 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on May 17, 2005, 11:58:02 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 17, 2005, 11:58:10 AM
Post by: NotSoStu on May 17, 2005, 02:17:00 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on May 17, 2005, 02:21:52 PM
That could also mean it's connected to Yu-Gi-Oh.
Or not.
El Oh El.
But so now it's pretty much confirmed Zelda will have an alternate identy again...that hooded figure, if that is indeed Zelda.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2005, 02:23:18 PM
0:01 Particle effects similar to Wind Waker; Castle of unknown origin, though it may be where Link starts off when he enters the Twilight Realm
0:17 New enemy with a strange structure for a head...Similar in style to the statue-like mask that we see later on a certain creature...
0:25 & 0:33 We see a new species of wildlife...A squirrel! In between here, we also see a little girl...Remember her!
0:36 The lantern is a very nice touch, and I'm glad it's now made it's way into the 3d games...Hopefully you'll be able to attack and use it at the same time...
0:43 Cloaked figure nearly 100% proven to be Zelda
0:53 This bit is spoilers...I love the design of the wolf, with it's unique markings...I also love how Link's eyes and his earrings are very distinct
0:58 More spoiler bits I guess...Wolf Link seems very aggressive here...Fighting the inner beast I guess...
1:00 First look at Midna...She is the one who frees Wolf Link after he is captured...
1:06 Looks like Wolf Link can climb...
1:09 Battle with one of the flying dragon creatures from the GDC trailer! Midna also sports a nice toon-shaded "Floormaster" sprouted from her head!
1:13 New enemies again...Ghost rats! Scene takes place in sewer seen in GDC trailer...I'm not quite sure what the ghost soldier right behind Link is doing though...
1:14 Magic use by Midna...and also some sleek attacking by Wolf Link on the creatures seen at 0:17...
1:22 Remember that girl at the beginning of the clip? Well she's been captured...Uh oh...
1:28 Link deflects an arrow with his sword...Very nice touch...The entire fight scene is incredible...
1:30 New characters revealed...First a girl who is probably not your average NPC seems to be trying to coerce the viewer (Link) to come over while standing next to Link's horse...Then an old woman with a jar of milk alongside her cat...Perhaps you help her find it...Another villager girl who seems pretty happy about something (This is the area where Link first trains)...Link paddling his canoe in a village lake (amazing water)...And lastly, a hawk flies down onto Link's arm (another buddy?)
1:44 Link's boomerang is super-powered, lifting tiles off the ground as it creates a mini tornado...
1:46 More signs of an advanced fighting engine...
1:49 Wind Waker parry returns!
1:50 Cutscene that will probably force Link to retrieve an item in order to cross the broken bridge...
1:52 A helping hand in this particular dungeon...Perhaps you have to help it in order to gain its favor? Also notice the dungeon door...Look familiar?
1:54 A new enemy! This one personally looks like a miniboss to me...(And Deku Baba in origin)
1:57 Where Link is aiming an arrow up in the rain on the overworld, look at the ground...It's flooded!
1:58 Awesome ending...Perhaps after you defeat the miniboss you get this cutscene...
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 17, 2005, 02:28:21 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on May 17, 2005, 02:52:25 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 17, 2005, 03:31:33 PM
Not really any spoilers, but you might want to skip past anyway.
The new enemy you pointed out seems much more like a fully fledged boss than a mini-boss to me. The dungeon is forest/swamp themed, almost jungle-like at times, and it seems to be the same dungeon with that monkey who cuts the bridge down. Who we saw in the other trailer, as well as this one, holding the boomerang, denoting the likelihood of him being the miniboss (get the boomerang from him). I'm willing to bet the Deku-baba guy is the boss (Gohma from the previous trailer arguably could be, but (s)he seems to be in another area).
Post by: Renny on May 17, 2005, 03:38:48 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 17, 2005, 03:50:38 PM
I do agree with Hostile though on the mini-boss / boss issue. It seems more likely that you'll need to get your boomerang back to use throughout the rest of the dungeon (ala Jabu Jabu's belly) as opposed to receiving it at the end of the dungeon.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2005, 04:19:42 PM
Yeah, this was the thing that got me...Deku Monster seemed more fit as a miniboss than Gohma personally...But as you said, they could both be from different areas/dungeons for all we know...
Post by: Robotor on May 17, 2005, 04:28:26 PM
This game is gonne be awesome, that trailer was amazing. It impressed me more than Killzone's.
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2005, 04:50:04 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2005, 05:49:36 PM
- Midna is an enemy, but you team up to face a greater evil
- Link can talk to animals, and they teach you abilities throughout the game.
- Certain puzzles in dungeons require you going back and forth between the Light and Twilight worlds.
- The entire soundtrack is fully orchestrated for the first time in Zelda history.
- The game is going to feature more Dungeons than OOT and the overall scale of the game is much much larger.
- The player will be able to name the horse
- Timeline spoilers: This is a new Link, and the game somehow takes place between OoT and WW...How this will work I haven't a clue, but if that's the case, then Link and Ganon must not even see each other (else Ganon would have mentioned him to WW Link in Wind Waker)
Post by: Nephilim on May 17, 2005, 05:59:34 PM
Quote
1:06 Looks like ........ can climb...
No if you watch it again, he is struggling when you first cut to that scene,i think he has clearly jumped and is just pulling himself up
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 17, 2005, 06:04:47 PM
Post by: Fro on May 17, 2005, 06:09:15 PM
The trailer has the kind of cinematography and direction we've rarely seen in console games. There's story progression and highs and lows. I just love the art style. When I watch one of Square's CG epics, despite the visuals being unreal the stuff feels lifeless and robotic. Somehow this feels so much more real and has a lot more warmth even though it doesn't push billions of polygons trying to be perfectly real. I mean, they completely nailed the art style. The mis-en-scene is tremendous, there's all kinds of elements that set the mood and emotion of the scene.
How about that Wind Waker engine? It really gives the Twilight World a freaky effect, especially how they combine some of the cartoon characters with the dreary black and white background and the realistic characters
I love the orchestral score... it really sounds amazing. I love all the variations on the classic themes. This really sounds like an old John Williams Score, back when he was in his prime. If it's true the game is all orchestrated, I'll be very very happy. Heck, sign me up to preorder the soundtrack CD now.
Overall, it has all these great cinematic qualities that we've never seen except in flashes from Nintendo. Combine that with the sure-to-be-great gameplay and you have something that should be quite incredible. They seem to have successfully combined what was great about all the Zelda games, and came up with lots of new ideas for this one.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2005, 06:14:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Don't assume, Bill... Ganon might be cursed to lose his mind or memories at the end. He's been confirmed to be in the game anyway, so you'll probably have to fight him.
Yeah, well...That'd SUCK
Post by: Hybrid Hunter on May 17, 2005, 06:17:30 PM
Timeline sure is interesting, it'd be nice if there were references to other games!
Gotta play WW again now!
EXCITEMENT GET!
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 17, 2005, 06:37:18 PM
Par for the course for a Zelda story then.
I'd rather have a Ganon fight than a neatly tied-together story.
If it's really between WW and OoT they'll probably have their hands full explaining the flood anyway: the people prayed to the gods and no hero came.
Unless you're planning on not having Link meet anybody or save anything in this game.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2005, 06:41:14 PM
The only way I see this really working is if these new enemies wish to break the seal on the Sacred Realm to free Ganondorf...Link manages to stop them, but the game could end with the seal being broken or something...Remember, noone has said anything about the placement of Ganondorf in the game...For all we know, it could be remarkably small...
Post by: TMW on May 17, 2005, 07:41:53 PM
I don't know. Taking place 'twixt OOT and WW is a tad strange...but, I'm sure they didn't approach this willy nilly. They probably had it planned this way from the preproduction of Wind Waker.
I trust all will be OK.
Post by: NW on May 17, 2005, 07:48:36 PM
If you listen closely during that part where they show the blonde (or is it green?) haired girl with the horse, the song plays a few notes of Zelda's Lullaby. So so sweet!
Post by: Mario on May 17, 2005, 08:28:01 PM
Also, someone should rename this thread to The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.
Also x 2, I hope this game gets a simultanious worldwide release, as in, if gets released in the US/PAL/Japan at the same time >=o
Post by: SgtShiversBen on May 17, 2005, 08:59:04 PM
Click Me
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 17, 2005, 09:08:53 PM
They are temptation, and I am so very, very weak. Spoilers, obviously.
These downloads as slow as heck but worth it if you have a super-duper-fast connection, judging from the first one.
It's a bunch of gameplay videos from Jeux-France.
I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules here... but trying to download them from jeux-france itself doesn't seem to work for me.
Post by: Mario on May 17, 2005, 09:12:18 PM
Cool wallpaper, just not big enough for me, I suppose I can stretch it though.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on May 17, 2005, 09:15:25 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 17, 2005, 09:20:57 PM
I love the combination of cel-shaded effects and realistic effects in the Twilight world. Midna, the strange creatures that come from the Tower of Gods-esque portal, all of that. . . it seems very appropriate. Your entire discussion on the art direction I agree with, I feel exactly the same way.
New details are great, Bill. Not sure about the timeline deal (need more details), but the rest sounds absolutely awesome. I've always loved that the games have used midi tunes and whatnot, but some of the music in this game sounds absolutely gorgeous. Zelda always has incredible music, but this is a nice blend between something more classic, musically speaking, and Zelda. The combination is amazing, and it's a welcome change. I'll still like midi music, if it returns (or something like it), but this stuff is great, too.
I'm hoping the light/Twilight worlds won't be too Lttp-y, dark world light world stuff. We already had Metroid Prime Echoes this generation. For now, I think the two worlds will definitely offer something new (Twilight world seems much more surreal to me), but I can't say for sure yet.
Lots of dungeons is good. I'm looking forward to a nice, lasting game. I've played lots of Warioware and Yoshi Touch and Go and Jungle Beat recently. They're all fun, amazing games, but occasionally I want something that really lasts, is drawn out. Zelda is always good for that.
Naming the horse, eh? Interesting idea, it sorta suits the series. I'll probably end up naming mine Epona
I just love that name, and it's nostalgic. We'll see, though. Edit: Nice wallpaper, by the way, Sarge
I'd use it now, but I'm on my mom's computer.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on May 17, 2005, 09:52:18 PM
Post by: TMW on May 17, 2005, 10:05:53 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2005, 10:12:34 PM
Midna's crown thing has an eye thats strikingly similar to Majora's Mask...
Post by: Obiyo on May 17, 2005, 10:22:57 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2005, 10:28:09 PM
Still, I dont like the timeline theory so far because its kind of tragic that this world you are going to save is getting flooded afterwards, like theres no point in saving it
I love the intrincated designs in one of those girl's outfits, the level of detail is incredible.
oh and SgtShiversBen nice wallpaper
EDITED because double posting its Tacky
Post by: King of Twitch on May 17, 2005, 10:30:36 PM
Post by: TMW on May 18, 2005, 12:29:59 AM
And I think they're gonna try and tie this into LTTP...only Link transformed into a Bunny in that game.
Post by: absolutezero on May 18, 2005, 02:07:18 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on May 18, 2005, 07:19:35 AM
Post by: stevey on May 18, 2005, 08:29:42 AM
Post by: norebonomis on May 18, 2005, 08:42:53 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 18, 2005, 08:46:59 AM
Post by: norebonomis on May 18, 2005, 09:46:37 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 18, 2005, 11:39:37 AM
"Q: In terms of the overall storyline, where does the Twilight Princess fit in?
A: Chronologically speaking, it takes place a few decades after The Wind Waker. "
Post by: mantidor on May 18, 2005, 11:51:49 AM
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on May 18, 2005, 12:06:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SgtShiversBen
For all you Zelda freaks, I made a [albeit plain and simple] wallpaper for the new Zelda. I think this is the best picture ever taken from a game just that the girl [I'm guessing it to be Zelda] looks amazing. Use if you want, and feedback would be welcome.
Click Me
That pic reminds me of that Windwaker commercial with that girl in the tower.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 18, 2005, 12:11:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
From Gamespy's roundtable... looks like we were wrong.
"Q: In terms of the overall storyline, where does the Twilight Princess fit in?
A: Chronologically speaking, it takes place a few decades after The Wind Waker. "
Wait, HUH? That's incorrect...I've watched the roundtable, and Bill Trinen says "a few decades after OCARINA OF TIME"
Post by: NW on May 18, 2005, 01:24:17 PM
Unless of course Link somehow died 17 years before and was reincarnated immediately at such a young age...
Something tells me that that timeline wouldn't make sense. :/
Post by: TMW on May 18, 2005, 02:16:06 PM
Besides, in MM I don't think that Link gets to go home to Hyrule after his little adventure in Termina, and since Twilight appears to be a different "place" than Termina, then I think that effectively takes the Hero of Time out of the picture.
Or he died of a brain aneurism.
And if it takes place after WW...well, then I just don't know.
Post by: stevey on May 18, 2005, 02:31:14 PM
Post by: Kokoro on May 18, 2005, 03:44:56 PM
Post by: Gamefreak on May 18, 2005, 06:02:37 PM
Also, Bill said a "few decades" after OoT but you shouldn't take that so literally. Miyamoto said Wind Waker was about a hundred years after OoT off hand and in the final game we found out it was really centuries after.
Since there are centuries between OoT/MM and WW, Twilight Princess will fall somewhere in the middle. By a "few decades" he could actually mean a hundred years or so... Besides, Nintendo never cares much about the whole timeline thing anyway and just throws around vague comments on the subject which the Zelda fanboys quickly analyze beyond belief. I mean, I can't help but crack up when I see entire forums produce pages of long, drawn-out arguments over one or two little lines Miyamoto happened to toss out without thinking about them much.
Anyway... GameSpot has two detailed previews up (one on the roundtable, one hands-on) as well as videos of the roundtable...
And if you have GameSpot Complete you can download the entire trailer in HD resolution. The file runs at a bitrate of over 3 MB per second and it's incredible watching it in fullscreen. I wasn't impressed with Zelda's graphics too much before but seeing that trailer in HD really shows you the richness of the colors and the amazing lighting (especially the horse battle and the joust clip right at the end with the sunset). This game is going to look amazing when it ships, especially on a nice TV.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 18, 2005, 06:06:04 PM
Post by: Renny on May 18, 2005, 07:47:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gamefreak
And if you have GameSpot Complete you can download the entire trailer in HD resolution. The file runs at a bitrate of over 3 MB per second and it's incredible watching it in fullscreen. I wasn't impressed with Zelda's graphics too much before but seeing that trailer in HD really shows you the richness of the colors and the amazing lighting (especially the horse battle and the joust clip right at the end with the sunset). This game is going to look amazing when it ships, especially on a nice TV.
Can you download it? I sure as hell can't. All the new videos rediret to the main page. Effin GameSpot mothereffers. [Damn Proxomitron.]
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 18, 2005, 08:54:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Heh... I love how excited that girl gets when she's asking you to "thrust".
Haha, someone else noticed it...
I didn't expect to see the innuendo so early on...
Post by: RazorX on May 18, 2005, 09:13:29 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 19, 2005, 03:20:34 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 19, 2005, 03:35:04 PM
Post by: stevey on May 19, 2005, 03:35:24 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 19, 2005, 06:40:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Kaplan says ZERUDA: EVENING GIRLIE will be released this year, worldwide.
where!? is the Kaplan interview already up?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 19, 2005, 06:52:07 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 20, 2005, 10:31:14 AM
There's an Iwata and Shiggy interview on IGNCuub too - they don't say anything that they believe is an integral part of the "game system" or the storyline, but there are some nice tidbits, including you might be able to fly, no time travel, stuff about Midna etc
Post by: Artimus on May 20, 2005, 10:34:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
This game is going to have a M rating? from the look of the demo on g4 live show I think there blood in the game and theres stabing down foe .
Previews I have read have said no blood, and I expect it to stay that way. It'll be a T game. As it should be.
Post by: jasonditz on May 20, 2005, 11:52:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: stevey
This game is going to have a M rating? from the look of the demo on g4 live show I think there blood in the game and theres stabing down foe .
Previews I have read have said no blood, and I expect it to stay that way. It'll be a T game. As it should be.
Might as well beat someone to it.
Ohhh Noooos... Zelda sI teH k1ddi3!
Post by: mantidor on May 20, 2005, 03:10:43 PM
Post by: Artimus on May 20, 2005, 03:13:28 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 20, 2005, 04:11:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
so Im the only one who think that the new ESRB +10 rating was made specifically for this game?
Nope...Looking at the material thus-far, the game could still be considered for an E-10...
Post by: jasonditz on May 20, 2005, 05:08:02 PM
Post by: nickmitch on May 20, 2005, 06:53:51 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 20, 2005, 07:59:50 PM
so.. uhm, wasnt it great how Aunoma introduced the trailer's DS cartridge singing the "got item" fanfare? he did the same in the gamespot interview when he gave away two of the cartridges signed by him, I really would love to have one of those.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 21, 2005, 09:00:42 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 21, 2005, 10:24:34 AM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on May 23, 2005, 07:47:09 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on May 23, 2005, 10:07:34 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 23, 2005, 09:47:26 PM
Something Ive found interesting is that Aunoma and team proved themselves wrong when the said that the toon shading allowed for better facial expressions, because so far the trailers and pictures showed some of the most charming facial expressions Ive ever seen in a video game, just pay attention to the little kids in the last railer, and Links emotions.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 23, 2005, 10:16:21 PM
Post by: stevey on May 24, 2005, 05:37:33 AM
No that won't happen. This link is the son of the last one (hero of time) and is a cowboy so gest who time link wife is from oot
Post by: jasonditz on May 24, 2005, 06:01:46 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 24, 2005, 09:33:52 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 24, 2005, 01:00:31 PM
Post by: TMW on May 24, 2005, 01:12:52 PM
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=107
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 24, 2005, 02:29:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
We know it takes place long after Ocarina of Time, but before Wind Waker. They never said anything about a son or anything, and I refuse to believe it. None of the Links ever have kids. They just sort of fade away after saving the world.
Hold up, it's hinted often at potential love interests for Link, so there's plenty of evidence towards Link(s) having kids...It's just that their story after each respective game isn't important, nor does it imply each Link is a direct descendant of the previous Link...
Post by: jasonditz on May 24, 2005, 03:25:51 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 24, 2005, 04:18:14 PM
Post by: TMW on May 24, 2005, 04:34:09 PM
I really hope its just a translation issue like it was with WW. Where it's not 100 years, but actually 1000.
Maybe a few decades means a few hundred years?
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 24, 2005, 05:34:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
I'm pretty confused with the way the timeline actually works, but since MM happens immediately after OoT, wouldn't it be more accurate to say its between MM and WW?
OoT and MM lay on different timelines...
Post by: jasonditz on May 24, 2005, 06:05:22 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 24, 2005, 06:20:11 PM
"MARTY!> I THAWT YOU WENT BAKC TO THE FUTURE!?"
"WTF NO WAY DOC!:"
Post by: Koopa Troopa on May 24, 2005, 06:44:52 PM
Quote
Regarding the scope of the game, Aonuma wants the player to feel that Hyrule is a huge world that cannot easily be crossed on foot (thus the prominent role of the horse). The director is also responding aggressively to complaints that his previous Zelda games (Majora's Mask and Wind Waker) did not offer enough dungeons. Twilight Princess will surpass Ocarina of Time in both the content and the number of dungeons included, he says. And yes, the new game is still scheduled for release this year.
O_O
Post by: nemo_83 on May 24, 2005, 08:44:16 PM
This game has everything LttP has, including a dark world; and it is much more than just a 3D translation of LttP like OoT, MM, and WW. This game is going to step things up. This game is going to be big. This game is going to set a new standard for number of dungeons in a Zelda game. There will be even more socializing than MM, LttP, and WW. More towns, more weapons, more adventures. We will probably be able to control the eagle directly, and there could still be animals we don't know about yet.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on May 24, 2005, 09:19:13 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 25, 2005, 01:07:45 AM
Ocarina = LttP + 3D + suck.
WW = Ocarina - suck.
TP (unfortunate acronym) = WW + ?.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 25, 2005, 03:33:06 AM
BLASPHEMY!
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 25, 2005, 05:34:27 AM
Anyway, if Tp is after Ocarina but before Wind Waker does that mean that in WW when you run into the statue of Link in Hyrule castle that it is NOT the Hero of Time? Am I looking at this in the wrong light? Maybe something happens to which the events in TP never take place or they split time again. Does anybody understand the madness I speak?
Post by: stevey on May 25, 2005, 06:23:41 AM
LttP = Godlyness.
OoT = LttP + 3D + 4D - 2D - Dark world = greatness.
MM = OoT + mask = good.
WW = Ocarina + Toon - 4D = greatness .
TP = WW + LttP + OoT + LoZ + part of MM and LoZ2 - 4D - 2D - toon - Dark World + Twilight + More of thing = LttP godlyness.
Post by: mantidor on May 25, 2005, 07:02:56 AM
MM = Alice in Wonderland meets Zelda with a dark mood = best game ever
Im an Alice fanboy ^_^I still hope the timeline to be a misstranslation, I dont want to save a world thats going to get flooded anyway, its so sad
And it sucks so much how both MM and tWW are the most bashed of Zelda games and it must hurt Aunoma's feelings, he is one of the game creators that I admire with my heart and soul for creating such incredible experiences with those two Zelda games. So I hope this new game will shut people up and finally give Aunoma the recognition he deserves.
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 25, 2005, 07:38:22 AM
I think that'd rawk, because you're kind of saving the world, and if you wanted to see the real end you'd have to put your masculinity behind you and buy WW.
Post by: mantidor on May 25, 2005, 07:49:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I think that'd rawk, because you're kind of saving the world, and if you wanted to see the realend you'd have to put your lack of masculinity behind you and buy WW.
fixed ^_^
I like the idea, but the game still will be tragic, a game thats actually darker than MM? I thought that would be impossible, but it looks this game will be able to.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on May 25, 2005, 07:59:42 AM
Quote
OoT = LttP + 3D + 4D - 2D - Dark world = greatness.
MM = OoT + mask = good.
Your equations don't return true, assuming mask is positive.
if greatness = greatness then greatness + x > greatness.
therefore MM must infact be greater than OoT.
to illustrate, let:
LttP, 3D, 4D, 2D, Dark World and mask all equal one.
Therefore OoT = 1 + 1 + 1 - 1 - 1 = 1
And MM = OoT + mask = 1 + 1 = 2
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 25, 2005, 12:21:52 PM
But yeah, I didn't like it as much as LttP. As far as I'm concerned LttP is godly and OoT is just good. I'm not sure why, but it's probably the same reason Warrior Within got bad reviews... the soul of the game was completely missing for me. For some reason it feels like they tried too hard to make Link grow up... I liked Young Link more.
I enjoyed what I played of MM (most of it) a whole lot more... really need to get around to finishing it sometime.
And WW is just as good as LttP for me... I loved that game.
I'm concerned about TP because it seems more like OoT than the other Zelda games, but I'm willing to give it a chance.
Post by: couchmonkey on May 25, 2005, 01:35:04 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 25, 2005, 01:37:16 PM
Masks > treasure maps.
Masks > Gold Skultullas.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 25, 2005, 02:01:56 PM
I agree with all those that love MM. It is definitely an over-looked game.
I wish they would of released it on the cube (not re-released it). It would of been sweet to have that game in a cel-shaded style. And then when WW would of came out, people wouldn't mind the change because MM's gameplay and style (the whole apocolyptic setting) would of led the way.
To me, that game is one of the more mature Zeldas. So to combat the "I LOVE HALO 2" cel-shaded image, the story and trailers could of emphasized pending doom (which scares us all, especially when you can see it coming, but can't stop it).
It would of led the way into the cube, with WW to pan out the middle, while TP is released as a finale.
Post by: mantidor on May 25, 2005, 02:06:15 PM
Ive read tons of bashing of MM in many forums, "the time thing sucks","its too hard", "it doesnt feel like a Zelda game", only very recently I found I wasnt the only one who liked it. And its true that among Zelda fans the game is very liked, but so is tWW, while OoT and LttP are universally loved, very deservedly of course, but Id like more of that universal love for the other Zelda games.
Post by: IceCold on May 25, 2005, 04:31:47 PM
Post by: Caillan on May 25, 2005, 04:41:29 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on May 25, 2005, 08:05:57 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 25, 2005, 09:00:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Its true, you must get all the masks Oni Link rocks!
Ive read tons of bashing of MM in many forums, "the time thing sucks","its too hard", "it doesnt feel like a Zelda game", only very recently I found I wasnt the only one who liked it. And its true that among Zelda fans the game is very liked, but so is tWW, while OoT and LttP are universally loved, very deservedly of course, but Id like more of that universal love for the other Zelda games.
What was so hard about it? I'm struggling to remember any one moment that I had problems with. Except for a power outage whe I was almost finished with the Great Bay Temple.
It was a great game with a great mechanic.Back to TP. I love the idea of saving a land that will be later doomed, (then saved again....). It's similar to Ep III in that no matter what you do the future is inescapable. Evil times are ahead. It's sad, but oh-so intriguing. Or in LOTR speak "We must all do what we can with the time given to us.'
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 25, 2005, 09:49:58 PM
Cel-shading fits Zelda so well, I think, though realism does too. I like how they've done both, and I hope they continue to. I think Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening both could look really great cel-shaded, just the style (of story, gameplay, etc) they're done in.
Great new details, too. It's interesting to hear that not everything is going to be orchestrated, which is what I thought. It'll be cool to hear what it'll be like, finally. So far I really, really like what I'm hearing.
Post by: Dasmos on May 26, 2005, 01:52:15 AM
I lost my copy of Link's Awakening when i was about 7 so i barely remember anything about it.....
Post by: vudu on May 26, 2005, 10:03:16 AM
QuoteBill's on vacation. If he was here, he'd go on forever about how it was his favorite game ever.
Originally posted by: IceCold
Where's the love for Link's Awakening? Personally, I loved it and I think that it was the deepest (in terms of underlying message) and most original Zelda game.
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 26, 2005, 10:11:30 AM
Anyway, can we assume that Ganondorf won't be the main villain in TP. If this happens between OOT and WW wouldn't Ganondorf remember this Link. He clearly remembers the Hero of Time during the events of WW. This leads me to believe that maybe "Dik Lluks" will somehow return but how, and why? I don't even think thats possible being that he was only evil in the other timeline if I remember correctly.
Post by: Caterkiller on May 26, 2005, 10:26:39 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 26, 2005, 11:49:30 AM
Post by: stevey on May 26, 2005, 12:11:18 PM
because tp wasn't even made yet, at first they were going to make ww2 but later (after ww relase) S.M. want a percurl about the intro of ww so there and if I'm worng they he doesn't want to talk about wolf link bite him in the balls for fear of it happen again
and in ww when you go under water O_O what you see in the back groundI like MM ( how do you get the gaint mask after you get the big key in the 4 tempel...??? ) but love LttP much much more
(there were no hand coming out of tolet at 1am.) The only zelda I hated was LOZ2 and the cd i one
Post by: TMW on May 26, 2005, 12:22:19 PM
If Aonuma and Miyamoto both want to start focusing on the story alot more now, especially in how it ties into the overall timeline, then I would bet money that they had both WW and TP plotted out storywise a long time ago.
===
And I can't shake the feeling that TP wil tie into MM the same way that WW tied into OOT. I noticed something the other night. The eye on Midna's helmet looks like the eye on Majora's mask, as has been stated...and her actual eye resembles it as well.
I think Midna made Majora's Mask.
Post by: stevey on May 26, 2005, 12:34:39 PM
I don't rember but wasn't Majora's Mask made by a cult or something for an evil ritual ? I forgot the intro and never finnish MM
Post by: IceCold on May 26, 2005, 01:01:01 PM
And I thought that there would be a hockey season. I also didn't know that Ganondorf would be in the game. Wait, is this based on that IMDB voice actor thing?
Post by: TMW on May 26, 2005, 01:06:02 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 26, 2005, 03:13:25 PM
Post by: stevey on May 26, 2005, 03:42:05 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2005, 04:18:59 PM
Missing punctuation?
Post by: IceCold on May 26, 2005, 04:44:09 PM
QuoteHe did?? Must have missed that. I'm anxious to see what way he's used this time, as it won't be the normal way.
Originally posted by: TMW
And the fact that Iwata said in a interview that Ganondorf would be in the game.
Post by: mantidor on May 26, 2005, 06:51:08 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 26, 2005, 09:59:41 PM
About Majora's Mask, and TMW's suggestion as to who made it.
I think it's possible, but it was very thoroughly suggested in Majora's Mask that it was made by some ancient race, and more particularly by some shaman or witchdoctor. I don't think that necessarily discludes Midna from the get-go, but for now I'm going to doubt that she made the mask. It's reasonable to assume that she's somehow tied to the mask, but for now I don't think that's exactly it.
Also, they may have pre-planned the plots, but I wouldn't bet money on it. They're more focused on game elements, and as a writer sometimes I'll start writing a short story without knowing how it'll end. That sort of thing varies. At most, I'm betting they may have had an idea. I'm not really sure how much they'd plan ahead.
Post by: mantidor on May 27, 2005, 06:18:24 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on May 28, 2005, 12:21:39 PM
I like how TP's dark world is monochromatic. Has there ever been a black and white game before (on purpose, not because your tv was still bw when atari came out)? I like how the color of the hand jumps out in the dark world. This game is going to rock.
LttP = greatest game ever made. In the REV Zelda they need to make the character models more realistic but use cel shading; and bring back the slash that flies out of the Master Sword when your health is maxed out.
Post by: mantidor on May 28, 2005, 01:20:09 PM
Yeah, I admit the Wind Waker lacked dungeons, but as you said, the few that were there were really awesome, I cant wait to see the new dungeons in TP, although the only one we know is kind of a generic forest temple with monkeys...
Post by: ThePerm on May 28, 2005, 11:39:57 PM
they never saw ladyhawke eh?
Post by: TMW on May 29, 2005, 08:14:36 AM
...is there such a thing yet?
Post by: mantidor on May 29, 2005, 08:41:05 AM
Post by: TMW on May 29, 2005, 04:37:49 PM
And besides, badasses wear cloaks. Its kinda like a "cape", only it actually looks cool.
Post by: stevey on May 31, 2005, 09:01:10 AM
"Link in a new light"
" the zelda series goes where no link has dared: older, darker, and much hairier."
I think there forgetting about lttp bunny link.
Post by: Renny on May 31, 2005, 04:55:12 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on May 31, 2005, 06:19:41 PM
First and foremost, Link can feel light. I don't know what that means, but I am intrigued
Also, though the game is much darker in a way, the trailers shown don't reflect the over all game. The game has a very wide contrast of emotions; from very sad to very happy. It's contrast in lightness and darkness of spirit (and even graphically), is more expansive then ever before.
Link may visit spooky dark duguens but I bet you he's visiting happy forest people and swimming in a beautiful lake.
The trailers focused on the dark parts because most cinematic action happens, of course, while Link is in danger.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 01, 2005, 04:43:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
" the zelda series goes where no link has dared: older, darker, and much hairier."
I think there forgetting about lttp bunny link.
There isn't much to say about a defenseless pink bunny...
Post by: Rincewind on June 01, 2005, 07:58:22 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 01, 2005, 09:28:19 AM
Quote
I think there forgetting about lttp bunny link.
The bunny had fur, the wolf has hair.
Post by: stevey on June 01, 2005, 10:31:43 AM
did you see the new vid the 3rd one about 1/3 to 2/3 is ww's cel shaded but it only black & white and grey all over.
Post by: mantidor on June 01, 2005, 12:55:29 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on June 01, 2005, 07:09:48 PM
Midna is Zelda's Twilight form.
Post by: TMW on June 01, 2005, 07:15:08 PM
But...it is possible, but only if they've been lying through their teeth about the characters and such.
...which, now that I think about it, would kick major ass.
Post by: stevey on June 02, 2005, 05:32:01 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 02, 2005, 10:45:27 AM
Post by: mantidor on June 02, 2005, 10:47:15 AM
Post by: Juno Reactor on June 04, 2005, 09:01:44 AM
That means that Twilight Princess will at least have eight dungeons and eight bosses (and we already know that some additional bosses are featured in the overworld, like the boar-riding Chieftan Marauder).
What's especially promising is that the tentatively titled Forest Temple, which is purportedly the first true dungeon in the game, already looks ten times larger and more complex than the Great Deku Tree. This comes as no surprise; in the same way that Majora's Mask ramped up its difficulty for those who had experienced Ocarina, so too will this game take it up a notch for those who have already met the challenge of Wind Waker (however little challenge that might have been).
Also, we've already seen that there's a ton of exposition leading up to the first dungeon, namely Toaru Village, the Twilight Castle mini-dungeon (think of it as the TP equivalent of the Forsaken Fortress in TWW), and the Chieftan Marauder chase.
All in all, it's looking good so far. IGN did confirm that Miyamoto is a lot more involved in this one, so by combining his brilliance with that of Aonuma, this should be one huge game. Perhaps it really will live up to its claim of having seventy hours of gameplay minimum...
P.S. Does anybody think that the dungeons in this game will be beast-themed, as opposed to element-themed? In the "Forest Temple," there's a huge emphasis on working together with the resident monkeys. Perhaps in a "Water Temple," you'll work with dolphins, and in a "Fire Temple," you'll contend with dragons? Link is a beastmaster in this game, after all!
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 04, 2005, 09:43:29 AM
Post by: stevey on June 04, 2005, 11:39:39 AM
no in the water temple you talk to zora. There never been a dolphin in zelda or dragons (but one)
ps your avatar is too big.
"You may add a custom avatar (also called a "author icon") to your profile. It should be no more than 100x100 pixels in physical size, and no more than 20KB in data size."
Post by: Juno Reactor on June 05, 2005, 04:41:45 AM
Hey, in the Forest Temple he's working with chimps and not Kokori or Dekus--what's up with that? (sarcasm)
As for my user icon, thanks for the specifications; I'll change it as soon as I get back from church.
Post by: Caterkiller on June 05, 2005, 05:39:22 AM
Post by: stevey on June 05, 2005, 08:09:40 AM
No, that not the forest temple that the jungle temple
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 05, 2005, 08:36:08 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 05, 2005, 07:26:19 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 05, 2005, 10:37:20 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 05, 2005, 11:04:47 PM
Post by: Dasmos on June 15, 2005, 04:10:41 AM
Post by: TMW on June 15, 2005, 07:44:01 AM
...just how long lived are the Sheika, anyways. Will OOT Zelda be like, 200 years old when she dies, or are they just mortal ninja?
Post by: mantidor on June 15, 2005, 07:59:17 AM
Post by: stevey on June 15, 2005, 12:26:53 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 15, 2005, 05:45:49 PM
I also think they're probably mortal.
Post by: TMW on June 15, 2005, 06:02:23 PM
I wasn't impying they followed ninja ideals and such.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 15, 2005, 06:39:16 PM
Post by: Dasmos on June 16, 2005, 04:52:38 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 18, 2005, 12:11:29 PM
Half-an-hour with Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, Koji Kondo & Hideki Konno for extensive discussion on Zelda: Twilight Princess, Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs and the latest from EAD. Plus, a huge 30-minute Zelda gameplay video
http://games.kikizo.com/features/nintendo_videointerview_june05.asp
you guys can thank me later
Post by: stevey on June 18, 2005, 03:36:30 PM
I knew it! the thursday-ton was true ... well one part was (club revolution)
Post by: Rellik on June 18, 2005, 08:06:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
Nintendo Video Interview Summer 2005
Half-an-hour with Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, Koji Kondo & Hideki Konno for extensive discussion on Zelda: Twilight Princess, Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs and the latest from EAD. Plus, a huge 30-minute Zelda gameplay video
http://games.kikizo.com/features/nintendo_videointerview_june05.asp
you guys can thank me later
How about I thank you now
(just had to try out the "Faust" emoticon... wtf is there a Faust emoticon?) anyway, downloading the videos now... can't wait to see the TP footage!!!
Post by: IceCold on June 18, 2005, 10:51:15 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on June 20, 2005, 05:06:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
The footage is just that of E3 - the village, the horse battle, then the horse face-off. I saw the same thing before (don't know where). They don't give many of the new mechanics (which is good). Also, the camera was not of good quality, so it doesn't do the game justice at all
And that takes 30 mins???
I've yet to see it (the E3 direct feed footage) does it give away anything?
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 20, 2005, 05:14:05 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on June 20, 2005, 11:50:50 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 22, 2005, 02:33:16 AM
Post by: stevey on June 22, 2005, 12:32:14 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 24, 2005, 04:33:20 PM
The new interview with Aunoma its interesting, I dont know how to feel about the "off horse" combat being "slow", it makes sense since it fits the "realistic" world, but I really liked a lot the light and just plain fun combat in the Wind Waker. And the voice acting being used in an unique way is really interesting, is kind of old news, but now Im more exited about it.
Post by: Juno Reactor on June 24, 2005, 05:31:59 PM
Nintendo's design work truly is stellar. Twilight Princess isn't even out yet (won't be for several more months, sadly), but already the people and worlds in it have that special, timeless quality, as though we've been with them for ages. That's the sign of a winning Zelda, if you ask me.
Post by: stevey on June 24, 2005, 05:43:20 PM
girlfriend? were did you read that?
Post by: Juno Reactor on June 24, 2005, 05:47:14 PM
I strongly suspect something might develop between them down the road. Who wouldn't want that--they're a cute couple!
Post by: TMW on June 24, 2005, 05:48:35 PM
There is a good 90% chance she'll be a love interest, until Link goes off to save the world.
Post by: Juno Reactor on June 24, 2005, 05:59:49 PM
Post by: stevey on June 24, 2005, 06:08:12 PM
Post by: TMW on June 24, 2005, 06:15:04 PM
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on June 24, 2005, 07:40:36 PM
Post by: nickmitch on June 24, 2005, 08:50:52 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 24, 2005, 10:12:46 PM
Post by: Juno Reactor on June 25, 2005, 07:04:06 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on June 25, 2005, 07:20:41 AM
Also, Juno, EVERYTHING IS SPOILER, just use the spoiler tags, don't be a jerk-face. A spoiler doesn't mean just giving away the ending of a game, it means giving away ANYTHING about the game's story that isn't common knowledge, such as the fact that at one point Link rides a horsey.
Post by: norebonomis on June 25, 2005, 04:03:48 PM
Post by: stevey on June 25, 2005, 04:19:24 PM
Edit here it is
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on June 30, 2005, 09:06:23 AM
lol and about what Juno said, that's probably close to what'll be written on the back of the box or something, so no big deal, but some people get real pissed, so just use the tags, that's why they're there.
Post by: stevey on July 10, 2005, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 10, 2005, 11:00:40 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 10, 2005, 11:55:09 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 10, 2005, 01:15:04 PM
It'll be pretty embarrassing when Zelda sells more than Xbox 360.
Post by: nickmitch on July 10, 2005, 03:08:44 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 10, 2005, 03:19:38 PM
Post by: mantidor on July 10, 2005, 04:14:34 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 10, 2005, 06:21:58 PM
Especially the sales for when it was PS2 exclusive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 10, 2005, 06:44:40 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 10, 2005, 06:46:26 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on July 11, 2005, 07:50:22 AM
Post by: vudu on July 11, 2005, 09:29:09 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 11, 2005, 04:32:17 PM
Post by: Smashman on July 15, 2005, 10:12:03 PM
Here is another article ----> http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/showthread.php?p=546736#post546736
Post by: MattVDB on July 16, 2005, 12:01:52 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 16, 2005, 10:17:51 AM
Post by: mantidor on July 17, 2005, 02:35:57 PM
anyway I dont like this:
"Miyamoto learned from all the critics on The Wind Waker. Things such as the sea being too big, and that there were not much dungeons. Miyamoto says this doesn't happen to Twilight Princess"
well, they already confirmed it would be a pretty big world, but if itsnt at least as big as the Wind Waker Ill be mad at the idiots who complain about such thing...
does anyone has the complete transcript or anything about that sweden magazine?
Post by: TMW on July 17, 2005, 02:58:39 PM
"Aonuma appoligized that the end of The Wind Waker was boring. They didn't have much development time left so that's why the Triforce-quest became pretty boring."
That doesn't sound like something he would say.
EDIT: That was cut and pasted, typos are not mine.
Post by: mantidor on July 17, 2005, 03:34:48 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 17, 2005, 04:32:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
This is what Twilight Princess is going to do to Wind Waker once it comes out ----> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/beady33/acf51bc9.jpg
Go away!
And Aonuma was talking about the sea being "too big" as in "big but not enough to do"...
Post by: nickmitch on July 17, 2005, 05:43:54 PM
Post by: stevey on July 18, 2005, 08:49:46 AM
What was cut out?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??
Post by: nitsu niflheim on July 18, 2005, 10:22:21 AM
Post by: vudu on July 18, 2005, 12:55:30 PM
Like this:
Japanese Version: Find a map > find another map > find a Triforce shard.
US version: Find a map > find a Triforce shard.
Basically they just shortened up the fetch quest a bit.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 18, 2005, 01:14:13 PM
I'd like to take this chance to throw in my two cents about scale...I'm opposed to trying to create ever-larger worlds, because I think they encourage repetitiveness. I enjoyed sailing in the Wind Waker, but like others, I think they made the world a little bit too big. They could have made that better by giving us more to do, but I thought there were already quite a few activities...there's a treasure in every square, many have enemies, once in a while the barrel-slalom game would start up...part of the problem is a lot of the activities became repetitive after a while, and I personally think that's bound to happen as a game world becomes really large. Things get out of control, and parts of the world become boring, dragging the rest of it down somewhat.
That's not to say nobody should try to make a large game world, but bigger and bigger worlds are definitely the trend (see Halo, Grand Theft Auto, and even Zelda) and I think there's a false mentality that bigger is always better. A 1000-page novel isn't better than a five page short story unless it's actually written better, and that means a lot more work.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 18, 2005, 08:37:08 PM
But in the end, isn't that how an adventure really is?
I mean, you aren't just doing exciting stuff all the time...Perhaps this kind of "realism" just isn't for some people...
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 18, 2005, 09:02:44 PM
Anyway if a game has me travelling on foot, boat or horse for a long haul, i appreciate it for its realism and it makes me feel as if im on a real adventure. Just give me some monsters to kill and caves to explore along the way and im happy.
The bigger the world the better in my book...Especially if i love the game. Metriod Prime was HUGE, but i wish it was much bigger because i loved that game. Still do..
Post by: Gamebasher on July 19, 2005, 06:58:28 AM
Update on the Graphics engine for Twiligth Princess
This news came out today, so I assume it is indeed n-e-w-s!
Post by: couchmonkey on July 19, 2005, 07:05:38 AM
I think it is personal taste, and I actually enjoyed the sailing in Wind Waker quite a bit...more than I might let on by my complaints. But I think it harms certain games more than others. In the Halo series it can become incredibly boring and frustrating - if you lose your vehicle at the wrong time, you can be running around for minutes when you just want to be blasting aliens.It also depends on smart travel design. The thing I really like about the Wind Waker is that once you learn the Ballad of Gales, it never takes more than a couple of minutes to get to any part of the world, and less to get to the most common destinations like Windfall Island.
Post by: stevey on July 19, 2005, 07:21:55 AM
many many more
Post by: vudu on July 19, 2005, 08:53:57 AM
QuoteActually, you're about fifteen posts too late. But nice try. You were much closer this time.
This news came out today, so I assume it is indeed n-e-w-s!
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 19, 2005, 10:39:03 AM
) is good for me because there'll be more tween-dungeon experiences. Does anyone else feel this way? I do love dungeons or temples in games, but I always love the time spent in between a lot more.I feel I may be the only one >_>
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 19, 2005, 12:15:45 PM
Post by: Nosferat2 on July 19, 2005, 03:08:43 PM
Travelling around in a huge landscape and finding a new place to explore is all the fun for me.
Im an old school RPG fan so i may be of a different breed.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on July 20, 2005, 05:48:19 AM
Post by: mantidor on July 24, 2005, 01:45:48 PM
Post by: stevey on July 24, 2005, 02:49:43 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 24, 2005, 07:16:37 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2005, 08:03:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
Bosses are my favorite part of zelda but I'm gotting to good in kill them I've been replaying old zelda to get ready for tp but I kill the bosses with one eye close and one hand behide but there sill to easy once you have all heart and sword power ups.
I'm fairly sure you'd have trouble playing WW with one hand tied behind your back...
Post by: Dasmos on July 24, 2005, 11:15:32 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 25, 2005, 12:26:07 PM
Post by: Renny on July 25, 2005, 12:59:37 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 25, 2005, 07:40:36 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on July 26, 2005, 06:05:42 AM
Post by: norebonomis on July 29, 2005, 10:37:40 PM
why the fu*% is the word g _a-y prohibited?
Post by: mantidor on July 30, 2005, 10:41:34 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 30, 2005, 11:10:51 AM
Post by: Pepsolman on August 01, 2005, 06:03:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Savior
This game will save Nintendo before the Start of the Revolution.
This is exactly what Nintendo threw up their sleeves. They knew what people really wanted. Not Wind Waker. That's why they are really gonna push this thing... cause they know they can. There is no trying to convince people to buy this game like they tried to do with WW. There were so many fanboys trying to take up for WW... say that you should play it just because it is a Zelda game... dismissing the fact that there are certain factors that define the Zelda experiences... and that those were altered to many in WW. So with this realistic Zelda... all you do is look at this one and it says enough. People are talking about the extras simply just to talk about Zelda... they want something to past the time... and they are so hungry for the game.
Fact is this is the REAL Zelda game. This is the game Gamecube has desperately needed. Even though it might not do much in console wars... it will give them support for the next gen... and really that's all of this is right now... gearing up for the next round.
As for Sony's PSP... if they want to compete with the DS... they need to start cranking out the games. I'm waiting for GTA.
Post by: mantidor on August 01, 2005, 06:10:51 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on August 02, 2005, 04:37:16 AM
I realize you can't play a game with bright colors without feeling like a little girl with pigtails, but please don't assume we all share your insecurity.
Post by: stevey on August 02, 2005, 05:07:04 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 02, 2005, 05:19:43 AM
Ahahaha, how naive, not to mention stupid...UH OH, THE GAME IS PLACED ON THE OCEAN THE ENTIRE BASIS OF THE SERIES IS RUINED!
Post by: TMW on August 02, 2005, 09:42:54 AM
Zelda is Zelda. It's like Pixar. Even the worst Pixar movie is still a masterpiece by any other standard.
Why can't we just all just agree that Tingle sucks and move on? =P
For the humor impaired, the above statement was a joke and was in no way intended to bring down flaming fanboy wrath upon my head. I personally have no problem with Tingle, but do find him a little creepy.
Post by: Nile Boogie on August 02, 2005, 01:00:40 PM
Post by: stevey on August 02, 2005, 03:04:31 PM
Post by: mantidor on August 02, 2005, 05:03:26 PM
And Im also eagerly awaiting Twilight Princess...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 02, 2005, 06:20:11 PM
I'm so Anticipating this game, Every Zelda game will have my attention, as was prophesised in the Nes era ^-^ I think Dark Cloud should be flamed for being a Zelda wannabe, but that's just me
Post by: Nile Boogie on August 03, 2005, 09:13:22 AM
Wind Waker
Post by: vudu on August 03, 2005, 10:12:42 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 03, 2005, 10:37:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Actually, you're #1501. You phail.
HaaHaa[/Nelson voice] You forgot to count Post 1 (the original post), but as a consolation prize you did have the 1500th reply
Post by: stevey on August 03, 2005, 10:47:36 AM
post #1503"I think Dark Cloud should be flamed for being a Zelda wannabe, but that's just me "
No dark cloud is a GREAT game even when I frist saw it I thout it was a zelda and then found out it wasn't but it still was a great game! (5th best game on ps2 1-4th .hack)
"Why can't we just all just agree that Tingle sucks and move on? =P
For the humor impaired, the above statement was a joke and was in no way intended to bring down flaming fanboy wrath upon my head. "
Don't worry be happy, every one hate tingle outside of japan.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 03, 2005, 11:53:32 AM
food for thought. Hmmmm... I wonder, if Tingle will make an apperance? could be the usual or maybe as a foe? heh who know's what we'll see in the coming months/ Nov. Get ready to rock TP's world hmmmm... intresting!! If I remember correctly didn't OOT launched in November? I believed it did.
Post by: mantidor on August 03, 2005, 05:01:40 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 03, 2005, 05:18:25 PM
YES, LOVE HIM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2005, 05:30:38 PM
OH GOD, MY EYES!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 03, 2005, 05:47:06 PM
http://www.wingkong.net/newpics/lopan9.jpg
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 03, 2005, 11:41:28 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 04, 2005, 12:12:15 AM
AND SOON TO BE RULER OF THE TWILIGHT REALM.
Post by: stevey on August 04, 2005, 03:36:12 AM
I MUST HAVE THE GIRL WITH BLUE EYES
Oh wait doesn't zelda have blue eyes O_O.
Post by: TMW on August 04, 2005, 07:30:23 AM
Post by: mantidor on August 04, 2005, 05:35:34 PM
and Zelda rocks! ( I must keep it on topic
)
Post by: norebonomis on August 09, 2005, 08:27:54 PM
it's final. tingle is in!
Post by: stevey on August 10, 2005, 06:07:48 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on August 10, 2005, 06:23:35 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on August 10, 2005, 10:58:02 AM
Post by: Smashman on August 10, 2005, 03:05:31 PM
.
.
.
.
Zelda is good...
.
.
.
.
Um... yeah....
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 10, 2005, 04:43:03 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 10, 2005, 04:50:27 PM
Post by: IceCold on August 10, 2005, 05:46:10 PM
I don't think Tingle should be back in TP, but definitely should be kept for future considerations.
Post by: Nile Boogie on August 10, 2005, 05:50:24 PM
Post by: stevey on August 11, 2005, 04:14:20 AM
no one can do that. hes a 40 year old freak that think he`s a fairy.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 11, 2005, 04:41:19 AM
Lil worry about the guy running out of ridadine.Well, atleast Tingle is opened about being a 40yr old Fairy
Post by: vudu on August 11, 2005, 09:01:25 AM
Post by: Renny on August 11, 2005, 11:58:41 AM
Post by: mantidor on August 11, 2005, 05:07:54 PM
does he really think hes a fairy or a fairy boy? its not like he has fake wings or anything so is this a translation thing or what? even if he call Link "mr. Fairy" we know and he also knows that Link is no fairy... Tingle is just a kokiri wannabe, and to be honest, arent we all?, the Zelda fans?
The difference with Jar Jar is that Jar Jar was meant to be comic relief in agood way like some nifty side character or something but he ended up being just really annoying, while Tingle is the most successful character Ive ever seen in portraying a loser, and thats the intention behind the character (talking about MM, in WW he became a capitalist bastard
)Post by: nickmitch on August 11, 2005, 06:58:47 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 11, 2005, 07:11:01 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 11, 2005, 08:33:06 PM
Post by: stevey on August 13, 2005, 09:01:55 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on August 13, 2005, 04:16:01 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on August 16, 2005, 12:12:37 AM
New screenshots though, but... such a long wait. Also Rev news is expected this week or sooner
Post by: King of Twitch on August 16, 2005, 12:13:31 AM
And past March 31st?.... Suicide
Post by: wandering on August 16, 2005, 01:13:10 AM
Nah. I think Tingle worked in MM because his cartoony personality clashed with the darker nature of the game. I think he'd be perfect for Twilight Princess.
If he were to return, you could maybe make the situation surrounding him darker (by putting him in grave danger, for instance), and of course you'd want to give him a less annoying/prominent role than he had in WW..... but I'd want his 'lighter' personality/look to remain.
edit: DELAYED PAST MARCH 31? Yeesh!
Maybe they're trying to counter the ps3 launch?
Post by: stevey on August 16, 2005, 04:41:02 AM
WHAT really?O_O tp revolutoin anyone?
Post by: Nile Boogie on August 16, 2005, 05:02:02 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 16, 2005, 05:42:23 AM
"WHAT really?O_O tp revolutoin anyone?"
No...
Post by: ShyGuy on August 16, 2005, 08:40:22 AM
Post by: stevey on August 16, 2005, 09:56:18 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Shigeru Miyamoto will never let that happen for his good resones.
Post by: IceCold on August 16, 2005, 10:00:32 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 16, 2005, 10:10:00 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on August 16, 2005, 10:41:21 AM
I know people who would consider buying a GC just for TP,. But i'm sure there are many more who would consider buying a REV not only for TP, but Metroid, SSMB: Online and the hundreds of classic games already available (GC included).
It would demonstrate once again the power of backwards compatibility (which the xbox360 won't have), while emphasizing the fact that Nintendo makes good games.....no matter what console.....
Post by: mantidor on August 16, 2005, 03:53:03 PM
Post by: Mario on August 16, 2005, 06:30:26 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 16, 2005, 06:42:06 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 16, 2005, 07:50:47 PM
Post by: Mario on August 16, 2005, 09:06:54 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on August 16, 2005, 10:05:45 PM
Going to the Spirit temple in OOT is the best example I can think of....
Not only did you have to sneak around a gaurded fortress that eventually granted you passage, but you needed the eye of truth and the intelligence to solve a puzzle invovling size and time.....
Before you could even access the area though you needed Epona and before that her song....
It's always been about the pre-requisites (sp?) in Zelda.
Post by: mantidor on August 17, 2005, 02:48:54 AM
Post by: Mario on August 17, 2005, 03:35:01 AM
Why would you do that?
Post by: stevey on August 17, 2005, 04:55:17 AM
So did I.
"Before you could even access the area though you needed Epona and before that her song...."
No you can hookshot over there but Epona jumping over was soooooooo much cooler.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 17, 2005, 07:17:26 AM
I hope Nintendo doesn't get the idea that it can use this game to replace true Revolution launch games. I'm sure it could appeal to a lot of people, but overall I don't think people will feel confident about buying a brand-new system for a game that they could play on a $25 used GameCube.
Post by: K-RPG on August 17, 2005, 07:57:31 AM
Either way, the game looks better -- and it already looked great.
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 17, 2005, 07:59:27 AM
Otherwise, looks nice. The coral reef particularly.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on August 17, 2005, 11:41:29 AM
That "I'm sorry, I know nothing" girl is a close second.
Post by: mantidor on August 17, 2005, 04:45:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
WHAT
Why would you do that?
I had no idea I could get Epona out of Lon Lon Ranch, imagine my surprise when I found out...
Im actually pretty excited now about the new screenshoots like the marketplace, even with the guy who goes through the tent and the overall "browness" for lack of a better word. This is the Zelda team, if you've noticed in OoT the marketplace was like 5 NPC and several clones of the people buying things, you couldnt even look at their faces in the entire game, and still it was the most lively marketplace from that time, because Zelda games always have the ability to capture a mood extremely well, even if "technically" the graphics or polygon models dont acomplish that, the complete package is of unmatched quality.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 18, 2005, 07:29:41 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on August 20, 2005, 01:36:15 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on August 20, 2005, 08:03:33 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 20, 2005, 11:50:37 AM
Post by: stevey on August 20, 2005, 12:31:41 PM
tp has combos and so did ww stick up + b = up to down slash, stick in circle = spin and tp will have more combos.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on August 22, 2005, 02:20:31 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 23, 2005, 02:36:46 AM
Post by: Leon Esla on August 24, 2005, 09:59:58 AM
"OMG I WANT!"
Seriously. Looks promising to say the least. As much as I liked The Wind Waker (and while I'm at it, I may as well state it's my favorite of the Zelda games), I've been itching for another 'dark' Zelda game like Ocarina of Time. From the various video clips and screen shots, it seems like this game will provide just that.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 24, 2005, 11:22:35 AM
Post by: ThePerm on August 24, 2005, 11:29:04 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 24, 2005, 01:00:25 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 24, 2005, 01:05:35 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 24, 2005, 02:01:33 PM
Travelling the corners of the world and directly acquiring the essence of the fallen in the form of a mask, is dark.
Post by: stevey on August 24, 2005, 03:19:51 PM
but there was no...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 24, 2005, 03:28:22 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 24, 2005, 03:30:29 PM
Post by: TMW on August 24, 2005, 04:30:50 PM
I kinda want to know what he was talking about.
Post by: mantidor on August 24, 2005, 05:18:38 PM
in case it isnt, well, duh, its Tingle, one of my favorite characters in the Zelda universe and I DONT CARE WHAT YOU PEOPLE THINK
Post by: vudu on August 25, 2005, 09:50:31 AM
QuoteI loved the dance Link does after beating a boss. It's probably my single favorite part of the game. People thought I was crazy.
Originally posted by: ThePerm
when he means dark...when link kills something...he has a cold uncaring expression...and doesnt dance around like a fairy boy....dark.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 25, 2005, 10:30:43 AM
Post by: TMW on August 25, 2005, 10:39:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I know *I'd* be dancing like that if I just defeated a creature 20 times my size...
I'd probably be changing my pants.
Post by: stevey on August 25, 2005, 10:45:03 AM
no to sarcasm and no to tingle I was going to say that there was mature stuff in Oot and not MM like ganondolf bleed red blood or the gaint cock of a pig you need to hit with a gaint hammer to kill it, and there was no hammering of gaint cock of moster in MM that and tingles suck.
Post by: vudu on August 25, 2005, 11:43:50 AM
Post by: TMW on August 25, 2005, 11:53:11 AM
Unless Stevey found a "Hot Coffee" mod no one knows about.
Post by: mantidor on August 25, 2005, 04:15:43 PM
*****spoilers of MM
******anyway, the most mature game I have ever experienced is Majora's Mask, but I cant pick up one single moment, mostly all the awesome sidequests, like Anju-Kafei, or when you play the balad of the wind fish to make one of brothers to cry, not to mention the award Cremia gives you when you save her cargo of milk (an Im not talking about the mask
), or one particular moment when you save Pamela's father, that was very touching. The experience of the game as whole was very "deep" fo me. Link starts wanting to get the hell out of there, but as the game progresses Link starts to care about these people and actually want to save them, he as character "grows" so to speak, and so do us as the players o the game. Now thats what I call maturity, not punching pigs' cocks or some blood that seems fog Post by: IceCold on August 25, 2005, 05:27:14 PM
Post by: IceCold on August 25, 2005, 05:27:14 PM
Post by: stevey on August 26, 2005, 11:48:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I was sure Stevey was talking about Tingle T_T ...
*****spoilers of MM
anyway, the most mature game I have ever experienced is Majora's Mask, but I cant pick up one single moment, mostly all the awesome sidequests, like Anju-Kafei, or when you play the balad of the wind fish to make one of brothers to cry, not to mention the award Cremia gives you when you save her cargo of milk (an Im not talking about the mask
well hmmmmm I dont know how to reply with all those spoiler in my head ... I'm talking about how matur Oot is your talk bout MM maturity matur is srewing two poeple a once maturity is not laughing or smiling when odering chichen brest or in zelda matur is zelda being nude and maturity is taking on the task of saving hirul or in other words matur is a playboy mag and maturity is helping a nude old lady cross the road or simpley matur-noun maturity-verb tingle-suck
Post by: TMW on August 26, 2005, 12:00:49 PM
Rosebud is the sled and all that.
Post by: vudu on August 26, 2005, 12:54:58 PM
Post by: Leon Esla on August 26, 2005, 01:00:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Ocarina was quite bright and colorful compared to Majora's Mask.
First of all, when I look at the world of Termina compared to Hyrule, I already see a much more colorful place. Secondly, the moon crashing to the earth wasn't really all that desperate of a gimmick to put into the story. All you have to do is go back in time and you can save the day. You can't really do that in Ocarina of Time. Hyrule as you know it is ravaged and conquered by evil.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Wind Waker was a lot darker than people seem to give credit to...Just because a game is in a cute graphic style doesn't mean the story is cutesy as well...
As much as I hate to say it, art style is the most important aspect when setting the mood of a game. Tales of Symphonia has a 'dark story' but because of it's art style, coupled with it's light undertones, it appears as being in a rather light mood. Which it is.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 26, 2005, 01:04:28 PM
Post by: TMW on August 26, 2005, 01:17:39 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 26, 2005, 02:03:26 PM
And it can be light and colorful, but that only adds to the contrast. Look at the rape scene in A Clockwork Orange.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 26, 2005, 02:19:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TMW
Is -that- the innuendo you were talking about, Bill? =P
No, because being ass-raped isn't very implicit...
Post by: Leon Esla on August 30, 2005, 03:38:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Majora's Mask is darker than Ocarina of Time because it's just so much more twisted. Ocarina has standard darkness and evil, but Majora's Mask was something much less traditional and ultimately more disturbing.
And it can be light and colorful, but that only adds to the contrast. Look at the rape scene in A Clockwork Orange.
Examples. Kplzthx.
The moon falling to the earth has more of a 'fairy tail' air to it than procession of darkness and evil. Ocarina of Time on the otherhand is a step away from being post-apocalyptic (ala SMT or Fallout). I can't really see what's so twisted about Majora's Mask. It's main villain being a kid perhaps? Zora pop-stars losing their voices? A monkey being accused of abduction? I don't know about you, but that sounds a lot more like quirk than twist.
Of course there is that ten or so minutes of the game which revolves around aquiring the Gibdo Mask. Other than that, nothing twisted at all comes to mind.
Post by: UncleBob on August 30, 2005, 05:56:27 AM
OoT isn't nearly as "dark" as Majora's Mask mainly because people don't talk about death in OoT. Sure, Ganondorf destroyed the castle, etc, etc... But pretty much everyone you meet in Hyrule Castle Town as a child can be found later in Kakariko Village as an adult. Also, as a child, the general people don't know their world is about to change greatly.
In Majora's Mask, the majority of people *do* know what's going on and they really do think they're going to die. Heck, at least two people do die in the course of the game (Mikau and Darmani and very possibly the Deku Butler's Son *tear*). Everywhere you go as the days pass, everyone is talking about doom and gloom. Try this, if you haven't already... Open the path to Romani Ranch on the first day. Don't save Romani from the aliens and don't get involved with the Anju/Kafei storyline.
On the third day, visit the Ranch.
Post by: vudu on August 30, 2005, 09:09:49 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 30, 2005, 12:55:55 PM
Post by: mantidor on August 30, 2005, 04:56:28 PM
a very clear example about how dark the game is is the moon children, the freaked the hell out of me. "give me more masks" "want to play? " ... *shudders* >_<
Post by: UncleBob on August 30, 2005, 06:27:18 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on August 30, 2005, 06:55:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on August 30, 2005, 07:00:10 PM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on August 30, 2005, 07:18:37 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 30, 2005, 09:02:11 PM
2. Yes, in the beginning of the game, you find a "lifeless" Deku "person" "tree" before the entrance of the bowels of the Clock Tower (in the dark room that forced you to learn your Deku Flower skills).
3. Earning the Piggy Mask, I believe, unlocks the piece of the ending that shows the Buttler, on his hands and knees, before the very same Deku-person-now-tree.
It is sad. And it's also a reference to the flute musician in Link to the Past who turned into a tree after you helped him find peace. Tho, I believe the Buttler's Son had a more tragic demise. It's as if Majora's Mask robbed him of his life and essence in order to curse Link -- possibly related to the sad expression in Deku Link's eyes. After all, the masks aren't just rewards for tasks, quite a few are embodiments of characters' will, wishes, and last requests.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 31, 2005, 05:47:57 AM
Majora's Mask was darker in a quirky, twisted, undefinable way. I think with the right kind of mood and imagination, it's easy for the player to "fill in the gaps" in Majora's Mask and get a very creepy feeling. As the final moments of the third day close in, I find it easy to get caught up in the emotions that the game's characters would be feeling. It's very tense and sad.
This is something I find the Zelda series is very good at. It really puts me in the game world and sets a tone that can build up a lot of emotions. I don't remember a lot of the story details from the N64 games and Wind Waker, but I remember a lot of scenes, areas, and moments quite fondly. I clearly remember when I first heard Malon singing at night outside Hyrule Castle as I try to find a way past the gates, the song was both beautiful and haunting, and just as Nintendo planned, I seeked her out and she told me how to get in. It's little things like that that set Zelda apart.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on August 31, 2005, 08:36:50 AM
OoT -1
MM +1
I too think Majora's Mask is completely creepy as hell just because of the tones that are in the game and the way everything is set up. The entire world is trapped in the last three days of its own apocalypse and you as the main character know that in the beginning you have no chance to save the world. It takes you having to go back in time, seeing the same people fear for the end of the world knowing that you are coming closer to saving the world.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 01, 2005, 02:10:01 PM
I'm sure you're right, but you can't tell me that people didn't think that they might be the zombified remains of Castle Town's citizens when they played the game seven years ago. Not to mention Nintendo put tons of Redeads in the tomb under the graveyard. Heck, even the name "Redead" reeks of zombies.Wait, how did I wind up arguing on the Ocarina of Time side? I just wanted to say they're both creepy for different reasons.
I have to admit, for me personally, Majora's Mask has the edge in creepiness.
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 01, 2005, 02:38:42 PM
Quote
Examples. Kplzthx.
The moon falling to the earth has more of a 'fairy tail' air to it than procession of darkness and evil.
You mean aside from the hopelessness everyone expresses as the end nears? You know that you can go back in time, sure, but you are the only one who has any inkling of hope. The others, particularly Prof and couchmonkey, made some good points.
Anju and Kafei are feeling very helpless because the world is about to end, Anju cannot find the man she loves, and Kafei is too ashamed to reveal himself as a child. That dilemma is very tragic, and while you do have the power to bring them together, even then there's only this bittersweet moment as they're together and the world is collapsing around them.
How about the twisting of the music on the third day, especially toward its end? The distortion of the sound and change of colors as the end approaches adds heavily to the mood.
Ikana Valley. I don't know if it was as creepy as the graveyard (the only part in OoT I would call creepy; the rest is a more classic evil domination, not very creepy at all), but the Gibdo's are very eerie and the whole situation in that area is bizarre.
The jittering of the skull kid, the odd twisting of his neck, performing odd dances and cackling as he curses you.
Speaking of curses, the skull kid had to kill three people (from what I gather) to curse you with their bodies. It's been a while since I played, but didn't Mikau have a girlfriend, the lead singer? Those three are all dead, and will stay dead even if you do save the world.
The surreality of the four children running around the tree in the middle of a grassy field that could in no way exist on that moon. The lonely child in the middle who asks you to play with him, leading you to the vicious final boss.
On the whole, I'd call Majora's Mask tragic, hopeless, bittersweet, desperate, surreal, and sad before I called it creepy. But I still think it's more creepy than Ocarina of Time.
Also, the trophy does say they are created through dark magic, not reanimated. And while dead is in their name, I'm sure it has more to do with what they appear to be than what they are. Even so, Redead as a zombie makes no sense. That'd be dying, becoming alive (undead), and dying again. The name itself, if you analyze it, suggests that it's not actually a corpse.
But I will admit that they look like that.
Post by: mantidor on September 01, 2005, 05:20:20 PM
Taking about sad and tragic stories, what about Twilight Princess? the "official" timeline suggest no good ending whatsoever for this game
Post by: TMW on September 01, 2005, 07:27:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Taking about sad and tragic stories, what about Twilight Princess? the "official" timeline suggest no good ending whatsoever for this game
I know! The best ending you can get from TP is "Almost Everybody Dies". What the hell?
Unless you ship them all off to Termina.
Of course, that'd be inflicting Tingle on them.
Post by: stevey on September 02, 2005, 06:13:41 AM
How do you know the how the story end? dosen't it end with all the people climbing up to the all mountons top as the sea cover the twilight magic from speadin. I got that from what the ww intro said and the gray sea floor from the end parts of ww.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 02, 2005, 07:43:51 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 02, 2005, 07:49:12 AM
That still doens't seem right though
It IS more mature though, so waaaaah~
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 02, 2005, 08:37:47 AM
Post by: Caliban on September 02, 2005, 09:51:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Wait, I didn't know Twighlight Princess took place before Wind Waker, where'd Nintendo say that? I don't think this will be the story behind the legend that is told at the beginning of the Wind Waker, because in that legend, they say nobody came to save the people. I suppose this Link could fail and nobody would remember him, but that doesn't seem like Nintendo's style.
I think it was Aonuma or Shiggy that said TP would fall in between OOT and WW. I seem to recall from WW, because I've played it again very recently, that the Godesses saved from the flooding the ones that were most deserving as was said by the King of Hyrule. I sure hope they tie the TLOZ story like that and that the new Zelda for Revolution will be continuation of WW *crosses fingers*.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 02, 2005, 11:07:22 AM
Post by: mantidor on September 03, 2005, 06:48:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Or it could be that the "hero" in the Wind Waker legend is not OoT Link as we thought, but TP Link...Either way, all we know is that Ganondorf won't be dead (if he even plays a major part) at the end of TP...
If I remember correctly, hes mention by name in the legend as "the hero of time", not to mention that the room where the master sword is has all the sages from OoT.
remember how this room is all black and white and everyone is frozen and when you form the triforce you "color" the room? Ive just come up with the crazy theory that it just might be remains of the twilight since,you know, the twilight is black and white and all
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 03, 2005, 06:56:57 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 03, 2005, 07:30:13 PM
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on September 03, 2005, 07:38:07 PM
Post by: mjbd on September 04, 2005, 08:10:39 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 04, 2005, 08:12:34 AM
olololo it's in french, babelfish to the rescue!
Post by: mantidor on September 04, 2005, 01:16:20 PM
although its sadly not the entire interview, it has the part about Zelda, and I hope they have a better translation that whatever babelfish could offer (god if I hate online translators, or any translator for that matter)
so... melancholy in TP... more evidence that this game will probably make me cry
Post by: stevey on September 05, 2005, 05:08:58 AM
so it might just come out this year=) (I know I'm dreaming)
Post by: vudu on September 16, 2005, 10:54:24 AM
I would like to see the Pegasus Boots make a comeback. I miss those. The Bunny Hood was nice, but not the same. I want to charge up and make a mad dash with limited steering and ram into things. That would be rad.
Post by: stevey on September 16, 2005, 12:40:58 PM
I'v been play MM for the 1st time in years and some how the game gone from sucked ballz to kick ass and mantidor was right MM is way more matur than Oot and tingle is so retard
Post by: vudu on September 16, 2005, 12:49:05 PM
I played Master Quest when I got it for preordering Wind Waker and there were just too many dungeons. By the time I beat Water Temple I was almost bored of fighting. I'm not sure if it was just because the dungeons were much harder than in the orginal version or if I'm just getting weak in my old age.
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2005, 06:28:49 PM
Quote
[...] and tingle is so retard
well thats hard to argue against, but it should be no reason to hate so much at that guy.
So now with the Revs unveiling is crystal clear why this will be the last Zelda game as we know it, Im personally exicted in weird way, because this is trully the game to end it all, to finish this era, so Im thrilled about the game in a sort of nostalgic way, its hard to explain O_o
Post by: stevey on September 17, 2005, 09:58:11 AM
he fruity! Who do you know that 35~ and like to play with children?
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on September 20, 2005, 03:58:48 AM
Ergh...someone posted this on the Gamespot boards and it didn't get such a warm response, but I thought it was a kick ass idea. 1st person Zelda anyone for REV? That would use the controller real well too...
I can imagine using that Rev controller for that final battle with Ganondorf in WW again...hehe, I'm all giddy...
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 20, 2005, 04:40:28 AM
Post by: Famicom on September 20, 2005, 08:51:22 AM
Post by: mantidor on September 20, 2005, 05:11:10 PM
Post by: Caliban on September 20, 2005, 05:14:07 PM
Post by: stevey on September 21, 2005, 11:30:49 AM
Post by: nickmitch on September 21, 2005, 06:04:01 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 24, 2005, 05:11:59 AM
Of course it would be nice if Bill told us where does that quote come from, I havent read it anywhere.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 24, 2005, 05:57:46 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 05:37:50 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 04, 2005, 05:39:46 AM
Post by: TMW on October 04, 2005, 07:29:21 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 04, 2005, 07:46:40 AM
Post by: TMW on October 04, 2005, 08:19:27 AM
...I could have been talking about his hat...or that awesome chainmail.
Post by: stevey on October 04, 2005, 11:07:21 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 04, 2005, 11:09:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Why is it that so many arguments (d)evolve into smut when Bill shows up? I'm not saying he causes it or anything, I'm just saying the correlation is uncanny.
;_;
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 04, 2005, 01:33:36 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 04:16:42 PM
So. Bill. What are you wearing?
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 04, 2005, 04:46:41 PM
Great suggestion, Ian, wherever you are.
Post by: mantidor on October 04, 2005, 04:50:17 PM
So... this game is going to rock beyond words ^_^ I wonder how it will stand against games on the 360 by that time, I think its going to blow them away, but then again Im Zelda fanboy and I cannot see a different outcome.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 04, 2005, 04:53:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I wonder how it will stand against games on the 360 by that time, I think its going to blow them away, but then again I have something called common sense and I cannot see a different outcome.
Fixed...
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 06:02:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
So... this game is going to suk beyond words :-[ I wonder how it will stand against games on the xbx 720 am i rite by that time, I think its going to sux0rz, but then again Im a totall xboxx hrdkore gamer and I cannot see evry thing.
Fixed to represent the most popular response from the world.
Post by: IceCold on October 04, 2005, 06:11:59 PM
Yeah...
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 06:13:44 PM
EDIT: As of now, I have succeded in owning the first page of these here forums.
Post by: stevey on October 04, 2005, 06:41:46 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 06:42:58 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 04, 2005, 06:47:50 PM
Go, boy! Tell Reggie! Bring the Master Sword!
Yeah, we're screwed.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 06:49:22 PM
I'll have your head for that.
That's why Nintendo sucks! Revolution!? Pah! We Soviets spit at Revolution! Pah!
Post by: mantidor on October 04, 2005, 07:05:49 PM
so... err.. damn, I really want to talk about Zelda, but it makes the waiting more painful, argh! *goes watch the trailers again*
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 07:07:35 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 04, 2005, 07:19:51 PM
Resistance is futile!
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 04, 2005, 07:29:57 PM
In all seriousness, I went back and rewatched some of the E3 Zelda stuff. I'd forgotten how gorgeous this game could be in places... I hope the parts it's not yet gorgeous in just need and will receive some polish.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 04, 2005, 07:48:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
Stevey, stop interfering with the matters of those with higher brain functions. Go crawl up in a hole, as I continue to dominate Planet Gamecube.
LOL
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Quick, stevey, he's passed you over in typical villainous arrogance. Only you can save us all now!
Go, boy! Tell Reggie! Bring the Master Sword!
Yeah, we're screwed.
LMFAO
you guys crack me up.
Post by: IceCold on October 04, 2005, 08:19:14 PM
Multiply x-axes values by 1000
EDIT: And change y-axes to Days of the Week
EDIT 2: On the flip side, at least now the mods will finally see your oversized avatar
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 04:59:18 AM
(This one's re-captured
) EDIT: And once again, I am in full control of Planet Gamecube. And I've had this avatar for 2 months or so, and if no one's caught me till now...
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 05, 2005, 05:27:19 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 05:28:55 AM
Post by: nickmitch on October 05, 2005, 02:26:02 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 05, 2005, 05:49:27 PM
EDIT: I would like to retract my previous statement about taking over PGC from the inside and report that I am now in full control of the Technical Discussion and European Community boards.
I'd like to give you this opportunity to hand me the other boards over now, or they will all have to feel my wrath eventually anyway.
Post by: Dasmos on October 06, 2005, 01:26:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
I've decided it would be more effective to take over PGC from the inside.
EDIT: I would like to retract my previous statement about taking over PGC from the inside and report that I am now in full control of the Technical Discussion and European Community boards.
I'd like to give you this opportunity to hand me the other boards over now, or they will all have to feel my wrath eventually anyway.
Your not so much controlling them as you are tainting them forever with your tomfoolery.
Post by: norebonomis on October 08, 2005, 03:07:56 PM
i like apples.
Post by: wandering on October 08, 2005, 03:36:13 PM
Though I prefer pears, they get you the most points.
Though of course the absolute best of them all is banananas.....
unless you count power pills....but we're talking about fruit here, and talking about pills would be way off topic.
Post by: norebonomis on October 08, 2005, 03:49:24 PM
i was just going to say how toilet paper has nothing to do with the legend of zelda... but well.. toilet paper has been in a zelda game before.
will it be in LoZ:TP? ::gives a serious stare::
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 08, 2005, 03:50:18 PM
I can't believe I agree with Ian, but I prefer the traditional toilet paper myself. I hope Nintendo's not planning to use the remote for that... that's just being different for the sake of being different. People are used to the simplicity of traditional toilet paper... using the remote would probably hurt your wrist after a while. And I don't see the point of ignoring the traditional, reliable market for the kinds of people who would use a remote as toilet paper. That's an unproven market.
Nintendo had better bundle a roll of toilet paper with every console and controller. The remote could be used as a spindle.
Edit: Almost forgot. This topic is getting a little dirty so I should mention Bill somewhere.
Post by: nickmitch on October 08, 2005, 04:03:45 PM
Post by: norebonomis on October 08, 2005, 11:26:32 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 09, 2005, 05:35:08 AM
I JUST CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF YOU IAN CAN YOU GET ENOUGH OF MEEEEE?
Post by: stevey on October 09, 2005, 06:07:47 AM
Let hope the toilet paper has tingle on. EDIT: putting tingle on toilet paper is a bad idea toilet paper can assrape you know
Post by: PaLaDiN on October 09, 2005, 09:29:21 AM
So, Twilight Princess. Will you be able to talk to your horse in wolf mode?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 09, 2005, 09:45:26 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 09, 2005, 12:15:34 PM
Post by: norebonomis on October 09, 2005, 01:02:33 PM
:-*
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on October 09, 2005, 04:45:43 PM
Post by: norebonomis on October 09, 2005, 09:41:11 PM
all this pointless posting....
link needs some tp. tp for my bung-hole.
Post by: norebonomis on October 11, 2005, 08:38:25 AM
i just reported my last post.
Post by: Mario on October 12, 2005, 04:31:21 AM
EDIT:
Post by: norebonomis on October 13, 2005, 05:17:35 PM
darn!
Post by: Invincible Donkey Kong on October 13, 2005, 07:20:20 PM
Post by: stevey on October 14, 2005, 03:28:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Myxtika1 Azn
I'm thinking that if you approach your horse in wolf mode, it'd run away if not try to stomp/kick you to death.
I think you can talk to animals as a person because link can only be a wolf in the twilight world and btw horses's run away when wolf and such come at them only donkey stomp/kick wolf to death.
Post by: mantidor on October 14, 2005, 03:54:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: steveyQuote
Originally posted by: Myxtika1 Azn
I'm thinking that if you approach your horse in wolf mode, it'd run away if not try to stomp/kick you to death.
because link can only be a wolf in the twilight world
spoiler that everyone who looks at the symbol of the game already knows
so, as someone at ign said when mentioning the skullkid appearance in the game, for all we know about Twilight Princess, theres a whole lot that we dont.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 14, 2005, 03:57:53 PM
Post by: stevey on October 14, 2005, 04:17:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: steveyQuote
Originally posted by: Myxtika1 Azn
I'm thinking that if you approach your horse in wolf mode, it'd run away if not try to stomp/kick you to death.
because link can only be a wolf in the twilight world
spoiler that everyone who looks at the symbol of the game already knows
so, as someone at ign said when mentioning the skullkid appearance in the game, for all we know about Twilight Princess, theres a whole lot that we dont.
Well a few people get piss of from spoiler no mater how small and at e3 E A has stated that people from Oot will be in tp.
Post by: mantidor on October 14, 2005, 04:37:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Why a wolf and not a pink bunny? HUH?
Because its cool...
I like the explanation Aonuma gave, because Link is no longer a child, there are certain things he cant do anymore, and the wolf is an expression of that, like his inner desires or something like that.
And I think Stevey missed my point, which was that Link can be a wolf outside the twilight.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 14, 2005, 04:40:43 PM
Post by: Renny on October 14, 2005, 05:02:39 PM
Post by: stevey on October 15, 2005, 03:32:05 PM
What a bunny deppest inner desires? What a wolf deppest inner desires? Now what is more adult? dont make me spell it out
Post by: mantidor on October 15, 2005, 05:04:23 PM
now that I think of it, inner desires doesnt quite describe what Aunoma meant, I wish I could find that interview.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 16, 2005, 10:02:23 AM
Post by: nickmitch on October 16, 2005, 07:46:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
"like his inner desires"
What a bunny deppest inner desires? What a wolf deppest inner desires? Now what is more adult? dont make me spell it out
Well let's see. A bunny's desires are: eat, find shelter and mate.
A wolf's desires: eat, find shelter and mate.
And just for the sake of it: A dog's desires: eat, find shelter and mate.
No difference right?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 16, 2005, 08:02:19 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 17, 2005, 03:18:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
For the sake of this thread, Nintendo, release some new information.
I phailed.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 17, 2005, 05:28:53 AM
Post by: TMW on October 17, 2005, 06:04:10 AM
Harsh, Bill. XD
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 17, 2005, 10:25:47 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 17, 2005, 12:07:41 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 17, 2005, 01:50:59 PM
Post by: mantidor on October 17, 2005, 03:28:18 PM
I found the interview with Aunoma, it is at IGN in the video section of the game, its not quite the way I thought it was but theres is the explanation of why Link changes into a wolf.
Post by: TMW on October 17, 2005, 04:13:50 PM
Are you going to force us to actually visit IGN's site?
You could put it in spoiler tags.
Post by: mantidor on October 17, 2005, 06:09:09 PM
Link is always a kid and matures through the adventure, but in this game hes already grown up, its actually the first time this happens in the series, and he can already do things that Link as child cant, so its hard to give that sense of progress and character development with this scenario, and thats why they choose to transform Link into an animal, that way he looses most of his abilities, like the sword and shield and items, so once he "clears" the twilight he comes back to human form, gaining his abilities back. The wolf was choosen because wolfs have certain mystisism in most cultures and can be asociated to a heroic animal, which is what Link ultimately is, a hero
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 17, 2005, 06:11:52 PM
Post by: Nile Boogie on October 25, 2005, 04:29:37 PM
Post by: Mario on October 31, 2005, 01:12:18 AM
Yes, this is insightful discussion this is, but it's on my mind.
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 31, 2005, 01:13:56 AM
Post by: Mario on October 31, 2005, 01:14:41 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 31, 2005, 01:57:40 AM
Post by: stevey on October 31, 2005, 11:38:51 AM
YOU WANT A RELEASE DATE!
YOU WANT A RELEASE DATE!!!
YOU WANT A RELEASE DATE!!!!!
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on October 31, 2005, 11:53:25 AM
Post by: Zach on October 31, 2005, 12:17:30 PM
Post by: norebonomis on November 01, 2005, 03:29:54 PM
revolution laungh mid 2006
/me rips his hair out
Post by: couchmonkey on November 02, 2005, 04:15:28 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 02, 2005, 05:48:37 AM
This isn't my opinioin, but what if Nintendo were to hold onto Zelda till the last day of E3. They would hopefully reveal everything about the REV, but also add in a tidbit that Zelda is forwards compatible. They'd advertise Zelda saying that you could own the first REV game today! People would sh!t their pants. Even more so, if they demonstrated what was so special about it (I know people don't like the idea, but Z-targeting and swinging your sword as if Link is a very clever idea), and showed how the REV features (even some we don't know yet) are incoorperated I think it'd cause a huge frenzy. Then again, Zelda launching after E3 would cause a huge frenzy anyway.
I could careless if Zelda launched with the REV. That's one more game I'd have to pick up. I'm sure you all have opinions about when to launch the game, but then again, does it really matter to you when the optimum time is? No I'm sure it doesn't, just as long as you can get your hands on it (preferrably the sooner the better).
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on November 02, 2005, 05:50:46 AM
Post by: mantidor on November 02, 2005, 03:20:21 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 02, 2005, 04:29:04 PM
Post by: Mario on November 02, 2005, 06:08:31 PM
Post by: TMW on November 02, 2005, 08:10:24 PM
I normally just bite my tongue and assume Nintendo has some higher plan in works when they do something that makes me go, "WTF?"....but if they were to release TP with Rev exclusive content...it just...cheapens it somehow. Its an effing Gamecube game. I mean, thats not saying I'm not buying a Revolution...I would just...feel slighted. Like, what if the reason the game got delayed was so they could put Rev exclusive content in it? I'm not saying thats the case, but I'd certainly be suspicious if it did have some exclusives.
At any rate...I just want to play the gorram game. I'll buy it no matter what they do to it, most likley.
Post by: couchmonkey on November 03, 2005, 04:12:52 AM
Ultimately, I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that Nintendo didn't have enough time to get everything together so it's putting more effort in to make sure it turns out perfect. They are aiming to put more dungeons into this game than Ocarina of Time, which means a lot more level design than was needed for Wind Waker or Majora's Mask, and they've put together a whole new graphical engine...all of that takes a lot of time to polish up.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 03, 2005, 08:44:20 AM
Anyway, I didn't mention anything about exclusive content. Rather, I was talking about exclusive control and features only accessible through the REV. If a secret dugeon or something were to be included as "exclusive content" I might be pissed, however, I wasn't talking about that.
If you pop Zelda in the REV and it looks better and also has the option to control differently, who would mind?
Post by: mantidor on November 03, 2005, 03:09:16 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 03, 2005, 07:35:18 PM
However, if they had never mentioned a delay and simply planned to launch it sometime next year, then it would be a different story. I might come to the conclusion that I could have been playing it much earlier if it wasn't for Nintendo retooling Zelda for the REV, but by that time, I wouldn't care. It's in the past.
Post by: stevey on November 04, 2005, 02:56:09 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 04, 2005, 03:38:39 AM
Post by: IceCold on November 04, 2005, 06:45:28 AM
Post by: vudu on November 04, 2005, 10:00:38 AM
Post by: RABicle on November 09, 2005, 12:17:38 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 09, 2005, 02:42:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RABicle
I've decided that I'm preordering whatever collectors edition Japan gets and just having it framed. I'm more hardcore than Bill.
I like how I decided that I was getting both the Japanese version and U.S. version back at E32004...Nice try, though...
Post by: vudu on November 09, 2005, 08:04:20 AM
I'm also naming my first born child Zelda. If it's a boy, I'll name him Link and then give him a sex change operation when he's old enough and rename her Zelda.
I'm the most hardcode here.
just kidding
Post by: ThePerm on November 09, 2005, 08:15:44 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 09, 2005, 08:34:18 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 09, 2005, 08:45:31 AM
What your basically saying is this: Can you please not work on the Zelda REV? I'd be content with minimal upgrades to my GC one...thank you.
Who in there right minds wants that? Give me ZELDA REVOLUTION!
I'd honestly be very happy with Stevey's idea. They could provide a few mini-games or mini-quests that unlock when you load up Zelda TP in the REV. One could show how battling with the NRC could work. They could aslo have the fishing game and an archery game. What I don't want is a full-blown Zelda GC-Rev compatibility because that would essentially be half-assing it. They should focus on creating a new adventure with the REV in mind from the beginning, instead of making it an after thought.
Post by: TMW on November 09, 2005, 02:08:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
I've played through all three CD-i games. Twice.
I'm also naming my first born child Zelda. If it's a boy, I'll name him Link and then give him a sex change operation when he's old enough and rename her Zelda.
I'm the most hardcode here.
just kidding
Oh yeah? I plan on getting a Triforce tattoo, on the back of my left hand!
Well, not really, as I'd never get a decent job. But I am getting one on my upper back, centered between my shoulder blades.
Post by: mantidor on November 09, 2005, 05:12:37 PM
it was mind blowing, I also dreamed about a Metroid game, it was just unbelievable, games in my dreams are so damn amazing but I cant quite describe them or I just forget how exactly they worked once I wake up so.. err.. yeah, I need this game so badly.
Post by: norebonomis on November 12, 2005, 11:11:54 PM
Post by: wandering on November 12, 2005, 11:20:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Im not hardcore or anything, but... I have dreamed about the game more than once it was mind blowing, I also dreamed about a Metroid game, it was just unbelievable, games in my dreams are so damn amazing but I cant quite describe them or I just forget how exactly they worked once I wake up
I had a Metroid dream once. Someone had essentially built a giant Metroid-themed thing in the woods and lots of people would come and attach arm cannons and a grapple beams to themselves and then grapple-beam over gaps and shoot at each other and stuff. Yeah.
Quote
Originally posted by: [b norebonomis
my next tattoo will definetly either be a triforce or the google logo
.....or the GOOGLE LOGO? How can you even be debating this?
Post by: stevey on November 13, 2005, 05:56:16 AM
I also have a google l. plate for my car
Post by: Nile Boogie on November 14, 2005, 09:15:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
I hardcore! I've had on the same zelda t-shrit every day since last E3
You know that's just not right.
Post by: mantidor on November 14, 2005, 11:42:55 AM
Post by: stevey on November 14, 2005, 12:52:12 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on November 15, 2005, 09:51:12 AM
I gave my OOT promo shirt to my sister.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 15, 2005, 10:20:53 AM
Post by: stevey on November 16, 2005, 11:02:01 AM
*put's on this shirt*
Post by: wandering on November 16, 2005, 12:45:59 PM
100 hours of Zelda goodness?!
Argh- I need this game NOW.
edit fixed link
Post by: mantidor on November 16, 2005, 02:46:54 PM
I do know that Twilight Princess has one terrible flaw, it will make stupid Wind Waker bashers to dismiss the game even more
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 16, 2005, 04:13:34 PM
Post by: Zach on November 16, 2005, 07:06:45 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 17, 2005, 04:09:24 PM
So far this Zelda has addressed any and every concern about WindWaker (though I don't get many of them):
1. Link's a kid!
2. Where's the horse!
3. Cel-shaded, WTF?!?!?
4. This game is just....too easy
5. What the hell?! It's over already?!
6. How about we get some different locations. Islands are nice and all, but this is Zelda damn it!
7. Treasure hunt, WTF?!
I actually don't know if they fixed #7, but from what I've seen, it wouldn't doubt it.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 17, 2005, 05:01:23 PM
I think that's actually what I like the least about this game. Link isn't a kid.
Post by: mantidor on November 18, 2005, 03:12:44 AM
These people complaining about Link being a kid and the world being toon shaded were never real Zelda fans to begin with.
oh btw, Im still finding new things in the Wind Waker, I have no complains about its length
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 18, 2005, 03:36:51 AM
I was talking about the mass population. People who aren't Nintendo fans are looking at TP with a fair amount of interest due the above list being fixed.
I wasn't talking about you guys, nor myself. I actual think cel-shading was one of the best ideas this gen, and now, we at least get both. I just wish they had a better Link model in WW (though, I do love how innocent he looks).
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 18, 2005, 03:42:30 AM
Quote
oh btw, Im still finding new things in the Wind Waker, I have no complains about its length
Same here, I know exactly what you mean. Just the other day I was playing it and I discovered a completely new area at PawPrint Island. I thought I'd found absolutely everything (and I mean 100%) in the game before that (excluding a few stray sea charts/treasures and a very few heart pieces).
Post by: mantidor on November 18, 2005, 04:03:50 AM
) The toon shading controversy is acceptable to some degree, but complains about Link's age piss me off like no other.Im really intrigued at what will Nintendo do now that Link is actually a teenager, that really changes a lot of gameplay mechanics, like for instance crawling into a tiny hole wont be in the game for sure, or how every npc dismisses you for being a kid in all the games until you help them some way, that will be gone too, and a lot of other things that I cant remember at the moment. I think people dont realize how completly different this new Zelda is going to be based on that fact alone.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 18, 2005, 04:33:31 AM
I've always been intrigued about the possibility of intergrating both young Link and adult Link into a Zelda. Something about being both is truely great (though I'm not sure why). OOT used time to do so. Trancending back and forth through time would solve puzzles and allow access to areas that were once inaccessible.
Well, I was thinking about another way to incorperate both Link's into one game, however this time, without using time as an essential feature. Apart from there being two different Links (or one split into two), there really isn't much you can do besides time.
I have, however, found a clever way to use time to link (no pun intended) both together in a new way (so it will still feel fresh) and could possibly be a more profound and intuitive way to transcend time when compared to OOT.
CONTINUED:
I remember writing this idea out in some zelda thread a couple years back. Anyway....
Imagine if adult link and young link were connected through memories. For example, you start out in the small town where most Zelda's start. There is a twist though. Adult Link doesn't know who is or where he's from. In fact, a cutscene at the beginning shows him waking up to a family of strangers. They tell him that they found him on the shore, unconcious in a broken pattle boat (Water is important in this game; about 55% land 35% water and 10% air). They introduce themselves, then Link thanks them.
Now your in control.
After wandering around the town, Link finds the resident badass and starts talking to him. The badass asks link if he knows how to fight. This triggers some sort of transitional cutscene similar to Majora's Mask, where the words of the badass kinda echo, blur, and get deeper as many very small flashbacks of young link start to flash onscreen. The attacking sound of young link echo as a grey-tone scene comes into view and with one last echo-y attack sound the scene comes into life, with color and animation (maybe the grass starts to move or something). The scene is composed of young link talking to a dojo master. The dojo master, as the scene became apparent, asks the same question the badass asked (thus triggering the flashback).
This is where you learn how to fight. Afterwards, the scene flashes back....
The resident badass kinda snaps you back into reality, saying something to the effect of "Hey! I'm talking to you!....So? Have you fought before?" Link automatically says yes. He then challenges you to a duel and in return you get a sword. And that's where i'll end this rather in depth example.
There are many examples I could of used however. Another one being, Link remembers he travelled through an area before (you of course play all flashbacks, unless it is purely story driven). Afterwards, you notice that the same structure in front of you, was also in your past. More importantly, you know there is a secret passage thanks to your little flashback. Or it could also have been that right where a door use to be, a structure stands. So instead of running around lost, you know exactly what you have to do....somehow move or destroy the structure.
There can, of course, be little memory puzzles. Something to do with a riddle would be appropriate. Also, not all flashbacks have young link. I'm sure towards the end some story driven flashbacks/cut-scenes would feature adult Link, which then reveals some integral memory.
This could make Link much more mature in the story sense. Imagine would he could have forgotten and the possibilities are endless.
Anyway, tell me what you think.
Post by: mantidor on November 18, 2005, 07:03:21 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 18, 2005, 07:35:31 AM
Ditto...
Trancending back and forth through time would solve puzzles and allow access to areas that were once inaccessible.
Ever play Oracle of Ages? Great game, it is...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 18, 2005, 07:38:17 AM
Manditor: I think my examples are to small. I don't want the ability to become young link at any time (thus making it OOT), however, you don't have to solve the goal of the flashback instantly.
Take my example of some structure blocking your path, when your young link and thus are able to figure out that theres a secret passage, you could run around and explore the area. You could even, say, cut a sapling and when you flashback to adult link, the tree that use to be there is gone and theres a new passage you can explore.
Maybe, because you can't be young link whenever you want is what makes it linear. However, TP doesn't even invovle young link, so why not keep the open-endedness of Zelda in the Adult realm of the game? What I mean is, why not use the flashbacks when the story is involved?
Furthermore, some flashbacks might not give you control at all. They could essentially be parts of your memory that are visualized, and that provide cryptic clues (such as how to kill a boss or how to pass through what seemed like an impossible route).
Post by: vudu on November 18, 2005, 08:59:17 AM
QuoteFirst, I really hope you're not referring to the hole in the giant blue dome that's in the center of the goddamn island, because if you are that's kinda sad. Second, how can you think you found everything (and you mean 100%) in the game when you're still missing sea charts, treasures, and heart pieces?
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Just the other day I was playing it and I discovered a completely new area at PawPrint Island. I thought I'd found absolutely everything (and I mean 100%) in the game before that (excluding a few stray sea charts/treasures and a very few heart pieces).
Also, has anyone beaten all of the slider puzzles in Link's Oasis? The door said you wouldn't get anything but Rupees, and since it was so easy to fill your wallet I never bothered past the third or fourth puzzle.
Post by: PaLaDiN on November 18, 2005, 09:32:02 AM
Don't remember exactly what happened... maybe a rupee bonus at the end.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 18, 2005, 09:39:24 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 18, 2005, 10:53:53 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on November 18, 2005, 11:50:31 AM
Then again, different people have different ideas of how long a game should be. I'm not really into the 80-hour epics anymore.
Post by: mantidor on November 18, 2005, 02:36:30 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 20, 2005, 12:40:29 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 20, 2005, 01:31:15 PM
What are you talking about? WindWaker, TP.....what?!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 20, 2005, 01:45:11 PM
And that accomplishes what? There'll be so many characters that Link doesn't have any room to breath then suffocate & die and we'll get the Zelda ending we never expected? 1000 characters who all say "Your princess is in another castle."? 10x 100-pikmin groups who all wear Links hat?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 20, 2005, 04:29:57 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 20, 2005, 04:42:44 PM
Imagine that!
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 20, 2005, 05:54:38 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on November 20, 2005, 07:44:18 PM
I'm just saying the Revolution will open the bandwidth up; it doesn't mean much of a visual difference, but it could mean more characters in the fields of TP (maybe a thousand was a bloated number; I'm just running on how many characters were hyped by MS to be going on screen in Kameo). If we're lucky we could get a special item like the four sword and foward compatibility with the Revolution motion controller.
I expect Nintendo to do something this week to throw MS off their game. They need to give us some information. I'm getting confused as to whether Zelda will even come out on GC despite what Nintendo's people have said. The latest rumors smell to me of moving to the Revolution. How do you fit a hundred hours on a GC disk? They're doing motion capture for some of the characters. They're using ideas that had been reserved for next generation's Zelda. That freaky hand coming out of the character riding the wolf would work well with the Revolution remote as would all of Link's weapons and magical items. The game can be ported over to Revolution with the stroke of a key and suddenly every bottle neck that had existed would disappear. Suddenly they could have much more AI, many more polygons, much more vast areas, fully realized trees, lighting effects, clearer textures, etc. The game on GC thus far looks almost as good as some of the 360 games. The only difference is that the 360 games are in HD, utilize stronger lighting effects, and bump mapping effects. Zelda TP already features well shaped polygonal models that could be quickly improved without the next generation hardware taking a hit. Once the lighting effects are turned on full blast on the next gen hardware the game should look better than Kameo which leans heavily on surface effects (360 games have that PC look to them).
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 20, 2005, 07:59:06 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on November 20, 2005, 08:09:33 PM
Don't get me wrong. Nobody said that adding a demo or something for fowards-compatability wasn't possible or not going to happen, so if your going to hope for something, it ought (sp?) to be that.
Post by: Zach on November 21, 2005, 03:07:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
I don't know if there is enough room in the terain (I know I spelled that wrong) in Pikmin to increase the number of characters to a thousand; we'll have to wait until next gen. I bet we'll see more than a thousand Pikmin on screen at once by far.
um, no, I dont want to be able to control 1000 pikmin, it would make the game too easy, you might as well make it unlimited.
Post by: bustin98 on November 23, 2005, 09:01:16 PM
I've heard a rumor of an email going down through the ranks there giving some info on Twighlight Princess.
I'll just get flamed for saying more, or even for just saying this.
All I'm saying is there is an email about the game going around at Gamestop. Hopefully someone can verify.
But if some who works there cannot say its so, I get to go kick my source's @$$.
Post by: mantidor on November 24, 2005, 03:29:50 AM
Post by: stevey on November 27, 2005, 11:59:07 AM
What is it? A t-shirt, gold case, golden gamecube, golden reggielution, golden top for the cube, free money with every purchase, link's sword/hat/tunic/pants, wolf mask, a T rating, 100 dollar price tag, zelda's , $60 special edition, cube-zelda bundle, $19 reg. edition, a M rating, or a hot coffie side quest? TELL ME! (sorry for a run on setences.)
Post by: IceCold on November 27, 2005, 04:49:50 PM
Whyyyy?? I never thought the day would come
Post by: Mario on November 27, 2005, 05:06:33 PM
Post by: norebonomis on November 27, 2005, 05:35:40 PM
the revolution is just a hard drive and memory upgrade with integrated wifi, it plugs into the bottom or your gamecube ala GBP.
and the nintendo ON video was made by my grandmother over night wired on adoral.
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 02, 2005, 09:44:08 AM
Though maybe some Revolution infos would be satiate my hunger for details
Post by: nemo_83 on December 02, 2005, 10:45:03 AM
"Game Informer also says they have heard that the project may be jumping the GameCube ship to head to the shores of Revolution. While Nintendo themselves have come out and said that Twilight Princess is definitely coming out on GameCube, they have been known to pull the wool over our eyes many times in the past."
Nintendo responds (can also be found at gonintendo.com)
“The rumours that are currently doing the rounds are nonsense. Mr Iwata and Mr Miyamoto have always maintained that Zelda: Twilight Princess will be released exclusively for the Nintendo GameCube. Of course, it will be playable on Revolution as the Revolution is backwards-compatible with the GameCube. The Revolution may of course see its own Zelda outing in the future.”
Well considering Nintendo finally stepped up to deny this rumor of the game going to Revolution I still believe it will not come out until the Revolution launches no matter if that's April or November 2006. Nintendo doesn't want to lose its biggest software investment ever to the hype of next generation graphics. I really believe playing the game on Revolution will change the experience offering limitless incentive for picking up the game in spite of Halo 3 being available on 360. The most obvious and easiest use of the new hardware would be the controller. It only took them a few weeks to get MP2 up and working the remote.
Edit:
And spong says, "There is a strong chance we hear, that Zelda will come bundled with the Revolution as a 'showpiece' backwards-compatible title at launch."
Post by: IceCold on December 02, 2005, 08:02:29 PM
Post by: ShawnSt3r on December 03, 2005, 04:11:59 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 03, 2005, 10:55:45 AM
I CONCUR
Post by: mantidor on December 04, 2005, 04:14:52 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 04, 2005, 06:31:22 AM
Okay now, back on topic...I hear Reggie "confirmed" an April release to Club Nintendo, so if there's any confirmation of this it'd be greatly appreciated...
Post by: nemo_83 on December 04, 2005, 12:39:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: norebonomis
yup yup.
has that been the first post the whole time? lol.
Post by: mantidor on December 04, 2005, 01:11:12 PM
and LOL again at the first link, I knew about it before but I didnt expect this "controversy" for lack of a better word, after the title change for "Zelda: toilet paper" I thought that norebonomis was fooling around with that first link also.
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 04, 2005, 01:32:44 PM
Quote
First, I really hope you're not referring to the hole in the giant blue dome that's in the center of the goddamn island, because if you are that's kinda sad. Second, how can you think you found everything (and you mean 100%) in the game when you're still missing sea charts, treasures, and heart pieces?
First off, no, I'm not. I'm talking about the other hole, the one you don't seem to be aware of. The one that you can't enter without the hookshot, where you fight several summoning Wizrobes.
And I thought one could logically infer, from what I said, that I thought I'd achieved 100%, excluding the obvious exception of sea charts and hearts, which I mention. Let's not, y'know, actually attempt to understand what someone is saying by understanding the entire paragraph, rather than one sentence taken out of context.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 05, 2005, 11:42:01 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 05, 2005, 12:05:30 PM
So far I hear they still can't decide weither this will take place after OOT or WW, it's all still up in the air.
Despite mentioning it at GDC and E3. We'll see I guess. Man Zelda couldn't come sooner enough.
I wonder... If Midna is connected to the.... Master Sword!? hmmm...
Post by: mantidor on December 05, 2005, 12:48:21 PM
Post by: Zach on December 06, 2005, 11:53:10 AM
The only problem is that Link would have to lose to Ganon (NOOOOOOOO!!!!) in the end so the gods would flood hyrule, or perhaps Ganon got so powerful that not even link could stop him, so the point of the game would be to unleash the power of the gods to stop Ganon (maybe link wouldnt know that he was infact destroying hyrule himself by releasing the gods)
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 06, 2005, 12:03:21 PM
It'd actually be really cool to have a final battle with Ganon as the land starts to flood...It'd be similar to the water leaking in during the final battle in Wind Waker... =D
Post by: mantidor on December 06, 2005, 01:30:22 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 06, 2005, 01:54:49 PM
Ugh, I hope not...I'd rather they just forget all the timeline stuff and let Majora's Mask just be the end of it...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 06, 2005, 02:47:11 PM
CHICKEN?????!!!~1`
Post by: mantidor on December 06, 2005, 03:27:51 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 06, 2005, 03:31:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 06, 2005, 04:15:21 PM
edit: damn, now I cant find the interview, it was in zhq2 somewhere...
Post by: stevey on December 09, 2005, 03:08:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I still think that the "two worlds become one" idea is nice
But that is like lttp story line. My guss is the twilight world is happen because ganon got free.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 09, 2005, 05:36:46 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 09, 2005, 08:26:31 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 09, 2005, 09:07:52 AM
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on December 09, 2005, 12:09:32 PM
^Very cool article that talks about the possibility of Twilight Princess not having a "nice" ending, basically guessing that TP ends with the flood described in the intro to Wind Waker. The mere thought of Link losing gives me chills and I honestly don't know if I want to see it happen. Zelda's always been something of a triumph of the will-type story. To see Link lose... it would be very sad, indeed.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 09, 2005, 01:05:31 PM
Post by: stevey on December 09, 2005, 01:29:57 PM
= 128 days ZELDATON!!! O_O W00t! W00T!
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 09, 2005, 01:30:58 PM
I don't think he should have said what happened to Koholint. I know it's an old game, but that's an incredible ending.
Really, Zelda games have always been very bittersweet and tragic. While Link usually saves the world (though sometimes, like in Link's Awakening, you wonder how valid your victory is), he very seldom gets any recognition for it. He leaves Termina, in Wind Waker he prevents the danger before it occurs (and hardly anyone knows), in OoT the danger he stopped never happened. He's always alone.
This one will just be a little more desperate and hopeless, a bit more obviously tragic (though Nintendo always handles subtlety really, REALLY well, so I think it'll be very well done).
Post by: Nile Boogie on December 12, 2005, 05:19:00 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 13, 2005, 05:57:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Really, Zelda games have always been very bittersweet and tragic. While Link usually saves the world (though sometimes, like in Link's Awakening, you wonder how valid your victory is), he very seldom gets any recognition for it. He leaves Termina, in Wind Waker he prevents the danger before it occurs (and hardly anyone knows), in OoT the danger he stopped never happened. He's always alone.
Hence the "Legend" by-line...If the deeds of Link were actually recognized we'd have to call the game "The History of Zelda"...
Post by: mantidor on December 13, 2005, 06:09:04 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 13, 2005, 07:42:46 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 13, 2005, 10:05:56 AM
But the people where looking for the hero to return but he didn't, Which is definately a sighn that it takes place after oot in the timeline where Link in his older form departed Hyrule that ganondorf destroyed.
But does TP pickup after that? or when Link reverts to his childhood timeline? Ah! the annomaility of Space-time contanium. gotta love when 1 becomes 2 and branches into several seperat timelines drawing off one another in different scenarios, due to time constantly changing from one to another. Could these actions be the result of OOT - TP - WW???
hmmm... hard to say, something's gotta make sense. unless the people where mistaking Links. Yet the statue in Hyrule castle would have you believe it's OOT's Link. So I'm still trying to figure how TP and WW are connected. But there's still the OOT to think of as well, But what role is ganondorf playing now? Will he be like his WW counterpart or OOT? or entirely different.
I'm thinking too much into this, yet it can't be helped. Nintendo caused it lol.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 13, 2005, 11:45:11 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 13, 2005, 01:59:16 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 13, 2005, 02:07:20 PM
Post by: norebonomis on December 14, 2005, 08:29:35 PM
Post by: norebonomis on December 14, 2005, 08:34:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShawnSt3r
What the heck, I clicked on the opening post link and its a profile for some homo. Someone should really delete that link.
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
I CONCUR
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
LMAO
i edited the first post you guys SORRY if i offened you.. easily offended persons.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 14, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on December 14, 2005, 08:53:31 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 14, 2005, 09:20:45 PM
[game hour 1] Wait for Link.
[game hour 2] Still waiting.
~
[game hour 15] Have lunch.
~
[game hour 19] Check email.
~
[game hour 24] Play Animal Crossing: Wild World
[game hour 26] SONFABICH!! BILL DISCONNECTED! MY MORTGAGE!1 GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
~
[game hour 28] LINK ARRIVES. I'M GONNA KILL YOU, BILL!
(Link: Bill? who the hell-- WHOA HEY- EUGH!)
[game hour 29] "I feel better now. Oh, Link's dead. I didn't hear him knock."
Post by: mantidor on December 15, 2005, 03:51:47 AM
Post by: Nile Boogie on December 16, 2005, 04:16:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan24
I'm still questioning this, as referrences in WW mention only the "Hero of Time" so where would TP fit into the background of WW, if it does come before? Then again there's the coming after OOT, but how does Ganondorf get out so soon? didn't they mention several decades after OOT? if that still holds up that is.
But the people where looking for the hero to return but he didn't, Which is definately a sighn that it takes place after oot in the timeline where Link in his older form departed Hyrule that ganondorf destroyed.
But does TP pickup after that? or when Link reverts to his childhood timeline? Ah! the annomaility of Space-time contanium. gotta love when 1 becomes 2 and branches into several seperat timelines drawing off one another in different scenarios, due to time constantly changing from one to another. Could these actions be the result of OOT - TP - WW???
hmmm... hard to say, something's gotta make sense. unless the people where mistaking Links. Yet the statue in Hyrule castle would have you believe it's OOT's Link. So I'm still trying to figure how TP and WW are connected. But there's still the OOT to think of as well, But what role is ganondorf playing now? Will he be like his WW counterpart or OOT? or entirely different.
I'm thinking too much into this, yet it can't be helped. Nintendo caused it lol.
I fully understand where you're coming from with your thinking. The only thing I can think of is the "Twilight" is somehow going to keep Link away near the end of his journy so by the time Ganon does return, Link gets back too late. So all of his efforts will be for not and the people never here of Links attemps to save the land.
Or perhaps, Link is the one who floods Hyrule and the people somehow think the gods have shown them "mercy".
Or maybe, Child Link from Majora's Mask returns and something something...
Post by: TMW on December 16, 2005, 07:21:07 AM
History is written by the victors, after all...if Ganon actually succeeded in whatever plan he was brewing, and they flood Hyrule as a sort of "OMGNOOO Plan B", then...yeah. The tale would be told with no hero.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 16, 2005, 07:58:18 AM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 16, 2005, 11:20:01 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on December 16, 2005, 12:16:26 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on December 16, 2005, 01:01:16 PM
Post by: Zach on December 16, 2005, 04:43:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nile Boogie
Or perhaps, Link is the one who floods Hyrule and the people somehow think the gods have shown them "mercy".
I was actually already thinking about that, Im thinking that Ganon will get extremely powerful, perhaps by actually obtaining the triforce of wisdom from Princess Zelda (killing her perhaps?). Two triforce shards against links one, not a fair fight, so as a last ditch effort link will have to complete a series of dungeons such as rescuing the seven sages in OOT, to "unleash the power of the gods," perhaps not even knowing that by doing so he would actually be destroying hyrule.
Nintendo could do extremely emotional things like that, imagine, link releases the power, and a torrential flood begins suddenly, killing almost everyone, even link. Or they could have link go to the mountain that would one day be Outset Island, and watch on as hyrule castle slowly disapears into the ocean.
No matter what they do with TP, its gonna be a real tear jerker.
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 16, 2005, 04:57:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nile BoogieQuote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan24
I'm still questioning this, as referrences in WW mention only the "Hero of Time" so where would TP fit into the background of WW, if it does come before? Then again there's the coming after OOT, but how does Ganondorf get out so soon? didn't they mention several decades after OOT? if that still holds up that is.
But the people where looking for the hero to return but he didn't, Which is definately a sighn that it takes place after oot in the timeline where Link in his older form departed Hyrule that ganondorf destroyed.
But does TP pickup after that? or when Link reverts to his childhood timeline? Ah! the annomaility of Space-time contanium. gotta love when 1 becomes 2 and branches into several seperat timelines drawing off one another in different scenarios, due to time constantly changing from one to another. Could these actions be the result of OOT - TP - WW???
hmmm... hard to say, something's gotta make sense. unless the people where mistaking Links. Yet the statue in Hyrule castle would have you believe it's OOT's Link. So I'm still trying to figure how TP and WW are connected. But there's still the OOT to think of as well, But what role is ganondorf playing now? Will he be like his WW counterpart or OOT? or entirely different.
I'm thinking too much into this, yet it can't be helped. Nintendo caused it lol.
I fully understand where you're coming from with your thinking. The only thing I can think of is the "Twilight" is somehow going to keep Link away near the end of his journy so by the time Ganon does return, Link gets back too late. So all of his efforts will be for not and the people never here of Links attemps to save the land.
Or perhaps, Link is the one who floods Hyrule and the people somehow think the gods have shown them "mercy".
Or maybe, Child Link from Majora's Mask returns and something something...
Thanks, but I'm not sure if tp will have a ending that's quite a tear jerker that the others are thinking. It may result in Hyrules flooding, and yet it may not. It could lead into an entirely different scenario, that possibility does exist. There's the deal with midna and what role she'll play in the end.
April will tell the tale
Post by: stevey on December 19, 2005, 10:47:08 AM
But what of the statue of link that is in hyrule castle in OoT O_o? If you think about story in games too much you go crazy!
Take it easy, it only 117 Days 7 hours 12 mins 46 secs till ZELDA TWILIGHT PRINCESS comes!!!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 19, 2005, 11:07:37 AM
She then hooks up with THE DREAD PIRATE ROBERTS, and thus WW Tetra is born.
Post by: ShyGuy on December 19, 2005, 12:42:30 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 19, 2005, 02:29:34 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 19, 2005, 02:54:26 PM
Post by: Nile Boogie on December 19, 2005, 03:23:38 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on December 20, 2005, 08:32:50 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on December 20, 2005, 10:15:49 AM
Seeing this, I don't see how we could connect the first 3 zelda's to the present ones, due to inconcensities with the latter parts of the series.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 20, 2005, 12:17:22 PM
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on December 22, 2005, 06:11:31 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on December 22, 2005, 06:16:58 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 22, 2005, 06:35:19 AM
Quotefrom NGC magazine
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Interesting news from gamesarefun.com- "But, perhaps the biggest reason for the delay has now been revealed by NGC, a UK magazine - Twilight Princess "will be playable on the forthcoming Revolution using the upcoming console's unique controller." It's still coming out on GameCube, but when the disc is inserted into the Revolution, you'll be able to play it using the Rev's remote. " NGC magazine is speculating that one of the hidden LOZ:TP features that the developer team requesting for is this the rev controller playability sounds very interesting.
Quote
Back in September, Nintendo announced: "Out development team has decided to take extra time to add some incredible elements." These were elements that Miyamoto and Zelda director Aonuma said were "simply far too good to leave out." And they weren't wrong.
NGC can exclusively reveal that Twilight Princess will be playable on the forthcoming Revolution using the upcoming console's unique controller.
[...*snip* they say its still coming out on Gamecube basically then...]
However, when you insert the disc into your Revolution, you'll be given the option to use the Revolution's controller, with all the advantages this will bring.
I knew it, it was way too obvious, why else would they delay a game for so long that was basically finished?
Post by: mantidor on December 22, 2005, 08:59:50 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on December 22, 2005, 09:43:15 AM
Post by: mantidor on December 22, 2005, 10:48:16 AM
Post by: TMW on December 22, 2005, 11:04:21 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 22, 2005, 01:31:50 PM
[umm LOL]
Post by: IceCold on December 22, 2005, 02:18:15 PM
Ahem..
(I posted in the other thread before I read this)
Post by: stevey on December 22, 2005, 03:05:24 PM
[blah blah blah]
"NGC can exclusively reveal that Twilight Princess will be playable on the forthcoming Revolution using the upcoming console's unique controller. "
It (I hope) would mean that there is more than one incredible elements and they add and not just rev controls. Also the controls in mp2 only took a few week to make with retro very small team and zelda has a big team so to make control will of been done very fast. So there must be lot more we dont know, like the side quest could have a good gameplay part in them, really good story line behind them, and are relly fun that could act as levels. They did say it is over 100 hours long (longer than most rpg, if not all), and new controller elements cant be all there is to fill in the time. *cross fingers* If not there going to be HELL to pay!!!
Post by: TMW on December 23, 2005, 11:54:19 AM
But a 100 hour Zelda game? Be still my heart! I would be in heaven.
Well, as close an earthly approximation of it, anyways.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 23, 2005, 01:03:17 PM
Post by: Segnit BGS on December 27, 2005, 01:42:22 PM
In all my years as a gamer, I’ve probably never heard Miyamoto or any other Nintendo exec use the word “amazing” before! If that isn’t something to get excited about then I don’t know what it.
I’m personally hoping that our hero Link will be able to turn into an Eagle in this game. And I’m certain that voice acting will be included!
Post by: mantidor on December 28, 2005, 03:45:06 AM
Post by: Segnit BGS on December 28, 2005, 03:35:40 PM
Regarding the grander issue of voice acting, I sympathize with the pessimists; however, voice acting has been successfully integrated in so many games. I don't see why TP couldn’t enjoy the same kind of success with voices. I’m sure that no matter how much people disapprove of voice acting in Twilight Princess, Nintendo will silence the doubters. No doubt about it.
Post by: mantidor on December 28, 2005, 05:48:07 PM
Post by: stevey on December 29, 2005, 06:00:55 AM
I rember that Miyamoto savagely slap Anouma after he said he think about voices over for tp at e3, or something among those lines.
Post by: TMW on December 29, 2005, 10:19:35 AM
Except for a stellar few, all voice acting does is drive up production costs, thus ensuring less games are made, and thereby meaning there is less of a chance that I will get Beyond Good And Evil 2.
Voice acting is evil.
Also, there is no need. Seriously.
Post by: mantidor on December 29, 2005, 10:41:45 AM
I can only remember excellent voice acting in PC games, on the top of my head, Homeworld 2 and Half Life 2. Half Life 2's was decent because the game was almost cinematic, so voice acting was ok, it was a linear game. HW 2 voice acting only had long speeches in the cutscenes, and in battle its only battle chatter, which actually enhances the experience, (although in the case of HW 2, not linear because its an strategy game). Its the only rare ocasion Ive seen voice acting is a really nice adittion.
Zelda is, if anything, anti-linear, and the amount of voice acting needed would be huge, not to mention totally unnecesary.
Post by: TMW on December 29, 2005, 10:54:09 AM
And besides, its not the dialogue that bothers me, its the bad actors. If the actors are good, I can excuse bad dialogue.
Post by: Caterkiller on December 29, 2005, 03:50:23 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 30, 2005, 06:18:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TMW
The dialogue was great! ...in the same way that Manos the Hands of Fate is a great movie...but not to the same degree, thankfully. .
I'm hoping you only know of the movie through MST... ^_^ (so horrible, arg)
And I don't recall Miyamoto ever talking about wanting to do anything new with voice acting...You may be confusing him with Aonuma...
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 30, 2005, 07:33:03 AM
Man, I love MST. I need to start buying that series off of Ebay.
Post by: Mario on January 03, 2006, 02:46:31 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 03, 2006, 12:33:56 PM
Ooh, you should play Killer 7. The voice acting is vastly superior to RE4, and there are more characters.
Post by: TMW on January 03, 2006, 12:54:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
"There have been 4 games where I have not detested the voice acting, them being RE4, BG&E, Metal Arms, and Dragon Quest VIII."
Ooh, you should play Killer 7. The voice acting is vastly superior to RE4, and there are more characters.
No one is superior to Luis! NO ONE!!
...ahem.
Yeah, Killer 7 is on my list, I'm just taking my time getting around to it.
However...if someone did do Voice Acting in TP, then the way they did it in DQ8 should work fine...everyone talks but the Hero, as he seems to speak in super high frequency that we cannot hear, but they can.
In other words...No Voice For Link, and we're golden.
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on January 03, 2006, 01:32:28 PM
I wouldn't mind voice acting in TP as long as Link does not talk, and if they do not give Princess Zelda a ditzy voice.
I liked the voice acting in Path of Radiance.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 04, 2006, 06:34:06 AM
Post by: stevey on January 04, 2006, 02:10:11 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 04, 2006, 02:22:45 PM
Personally, I'd love to see more voice acting in video games, it's just that it's always ridiculously artificial and it just sucks. Voice acting in TP would be great, but it can also turn a game into an annoyance. Of course, large blocks of text are nothing but annoying either.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 04, 2006, 03:00:11 PM
"I'm NOT a monster -- It's only a mask."
Post by: Nosferat2 on January 04, 2006, 03:23:44 PM
Personally i like Voice acting in games. Only if its good. Baten Kaitos Blowed as did Tales. RE4 and Killer 7 were pretty damn good. If Zelda does have voice acting, it better be good. I wouldnt mind hearing Link speak for a change. I would certainly want to hear Samus say something in MP3.
Post by: IceCold on January 04, 2006, 04:49:19 PM
OK, now you've got me... you don't like the voices of the kids in Japanese RPGs but you like.. SALAZAR's voice?
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 04, 2006, 07:08:27 PM
Post by: Nosferat2 on January 05, 2006, 08:13:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
I personally like Salazar i RE4.
OK, now you've got me... you don't like the voices of the kids in Japanese RPGs but you like.. SALAZAR's voice?
Umm Yes i do....
Whats your point. I hope your not even trying to compare RE4 with Tales or Skies. I thought Salazar was a funny motherbucker. Didnt you? BTW when did i specifically say i didnt like the voice Acting in Japanese Rpgs. I hated the damn kids not the voice acting. The acting and the script are different. The voice acting itself can still be spectacular even though their kids and say stupid things. I just cant stand saving the world as kids. But thats just me. I thought the voice of the Prez' daughter in RE4 was done well, even though she could irritate at times. Salazar, i thought, was done very well. It matched the persona of the character being portrayed (a lil drawfish guy with an accent) and he had witty things to say. I thought it was funny when he appeared on leons transmitter and said "hehe i jacked your line". I cracked up along with my friend. Further i thought it thought provoking when Leon called him a terrorist and he replied "Now isnt that a popular word these days". Anyway yes i liked Salazars voice acting in RE4. No i didnt like the voice acting in Baten Kiatos. Im sure you would agree that the quality of the voices in BK were no where near that in RE4, both in quality of the acting and in substance/script. These are my opinions.
Nice try, better luck trying to catch me slippin some other time.
Peace Nosferatu
Post by: Nosferat2 on January 05, 2006, 08:19:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
I personally like Salazar i RE4.
Personally i like Voice acting in games. Only if its good. Baten Kaitos Blowed as did Tales.
Well i guess i kinda implied or stated that i didnt like the voice acting in Japenese rpgs here, but what i meant by that is what i explained in my above post. Quality acting and good script.
So i guess you did catch me slippin, sort of.. ;-)
Peace Nosferatu
Post by: Mario on January 06, 2006, 01:30:03 AM
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62348
Thank god, I knew Nintendo wouldn't let me down.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2006, 01:53:57 AM
Post by: Mario on January 06, 2006, 01:59:51 AM
Post by: stevey on January 06, 2006, 10:39:10 AM
Post by: vudu on January 06, 2006, 11:56:28 AM
Post by: stevey on January 06, 2006, 12:18:34 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 06, 2006, 06:31:12 PM
Post by: IceCold on January 06, 2006, 06:39:11 PM
QuoteAHA! Everyone rejoice.. well done Nintendo; as tempting as it might have been, a Zelda game designed from the ground up for the Revolution is a MUCH better idea..
Originally posted by: Mario
Nintendo dismisses claims of TP using Revolution controls.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62348
Thank god, I knew Nintendo wouldn't let me down.
Happy mantidor?
EDIT: And I feel somewhat bad for the magazine that released the TP-Rev news - apparently they have been around for a while, and they broke some other big news that turned out to be true, but this will definitely hurt their reputation..
Post by: TMW on January 07, 2006, 12:10:44 PM
Also, it will probably have darker themes than previous Zelda games. With all the death, destruction, and Link running around naked after transforming back into a human.[/spoilers]
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 07, 2006, 02:38:43 PM
Post by: Ghisy on January 08, 2006, 01:08:59 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 08, 2006, 01:27:58 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 08, 2006, 03:18:09 PM
I've been reading what TSA has been saying from his visit to Japan, Sound's like there's a Snowfilled Mountain that has a village
among other intresting tibits, Ganondorf's there, just he will not be playing his "usual" role. Whatever that means.
But Midna is something to ponder about, her ambitions may cause all hell to break, hmmm...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 08, 2006, 03:24:04 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 08, 2006, 03:53:23 PM
it does revolve around the Forest Temple bit
Post by: Requiem on January 08, 2006, 04:07:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Nintendo dismisses claims of TP using Revolution controls.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62348
Thank god, I knew Nintendo wouldn't let me down.
Sorry to ruin everybody's mood, but this is basically CONFIRMATION that TP has Rev controls. The wording's tricky, but it never denied such a thing from happening, unlike the way they denied TP BEING a Rev title.
Plus, this NGC is a reputable magazine and they would NEVER make a huge article dedicated on something that wasn't for sure.
I tihink Nintendo is hiding something. Look to February....
Also, look at this....HERE
Very fishy....why would they fly them out to Tokyo?
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 08, 2006, 04:40:43 PM
But why would it take several months to nearly a year later to just add Rev functionality? doesn't quite add up. I want this Zelda bad!!
Post by: Requiem on January 08, 2006, 04:52:09 PM
Also, it may take a while to add REV functionality, because it isn't as simple as changing the camera (as Retro did with MP2). They have to go into the game and reconfigure everything; mini-games, puzzles, battle-mode, magic....everything. It won't take a whole year though...
Post by: Dasmos on January 09, 2006, 01:40:27 AM
QuoteDON'T GO THERE, GIRLFRIEND..
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
I wouldnt mind hearing Link speak for a change. I would certainly want to hear Samus say something in MP3.
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 09, 2006, 08:48:40 AM
Post by: IceCold on January 09, 2006, 08:54:47 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 09, 2006, 09:00:39 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 09, 2006, 09:01:40 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 09, 2006, 09:13:58 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on January 09, 2006, 11:00:49 AM
Post by: mantidor on January 09, 2006, 12:29:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RequiemQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Nintendo dismisses claims of TP using Revolution controls.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62348
Thank god, I knew Nintendo wouldn't let me down.
Sorry to ruin everybody's mood, but this is basically CONFIRMATION that TP has Rev controls. The wording's tricky, but it never denied such a thing from happening, unlike the way they denied TP BEING a Rev title.
Plus, this NGC is a reputable magazine and they would NEVER make a huge article dedicated on something that wasn't for sure.
I tihink Nintendo is hiding something. Look to February....
Also, look at this....HERE
Very fishy....why would they fly them out to Tokyo?
Theres nothing fishy there, at least not in the way you think, it just show Nintendo is commited to advertise the Revolution, something Im very pleased, this isnt the first time Nintendo shows the controller to publications and sites that arent focused on games, or the first time they make some reporter to go to Japan, the weird thing here is that they made them go to Tokyo instead of Kyoto, where Nintendo's headquarters are, again, maybe is just a typo.
As reputable as a magazine can be, even they can make mistakes, and although Nintendo did not deny anything anyway, thats far from being "basically a confirmation".
And after my vacation week, I was indeed very happy with this news, Icecold, even if it isnt a "real" confirmation
Personally I wouldnt care if the delay it to december as long as they focus in the core game and not in some extra functionalty that would be a waste in my eyes, of course that would be terrible marketing wise.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on January 09, 2006, 02:39:15 PM
(Talking to KN since I'm ignoring any posts relating to National Geographic for Kids because all relating posts are homosexual)
Post by: Kairon on January 10, 2006, 09:12:16 PM
NGC defends their honor! Insists Zelda:TP Revmote correlation is not rumour! Those zany Brits then go on to accuse Nintendo of hanging them out to dry!
Will the madness never end?!?!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: stevey on January 15, 2006, 02:45:58 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 15, 2006, 03:46:36 PM
Post by: TMW on January 15, 2006, 06:34:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
It'll be delayed again...
Oh gawd I hope not.
IF THEY DO I'M HOLDING YOU PERSONALLY ACCOUNTABLE, BILL!
Post by: King of Twitch on January 15, 2006, 10:30:23 PM
Post by: norebonomis on January 17, 2006, 08:15:32 PM
just watched the third trailer again, for twighlight princess
( we are still talking about twighlight princess here aren't we )
anyway. it seems that the rev controller would be more suited
for when you are wolf link with midna on your back, if you watch
that scarf or turban thing or whatever the hell it is it seems you
might be able to controll it with the revmote
Post by: mantidor on January 18, 2006, 03:16:49 AM
Post by: IceCold on January 19, 2006, 05:20:45 PM
...
Use
Post by: TMW on January 23, 2006, 07:48:37 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 23, 2006, 09:06:06 AM
Link had a giant erection the whole time during AoL. I bet it gets re-rated when it comes to the Virtual Console.
Post by: MysticGohan on January 23, 2006, 09:50:00 AM
Moblins look awfuly hungry
Post by: Nile Boogie on January 23, 2006, 05:24:04 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 23, 2006, 08:45:57 PM
Post by: Mario on January 23, 2006, 09:52:49 PM
http://www.thehylia.com/news_1_23_06_2300.shtml
Quote
Additionally, Oyama states he feels enemies have been too easy in the past, and that they will be more challenging in Twilight Princess. He also assures us the bosses will be far more challenging than what we've seen before in Zelda games.
YES! My interest just shot up about a billion.
Post by: wandering on January 23, 2006, 09:53:15 PM
Quote
MY GOD!! Can I please get something new on this game. The wait is almost unbearable. If not soon, I'll have to get Jade Empire...oh and an XboX to play it on.
Don't turn to the dark side!
edit: whoa, whoa, whoa, awesome. Especially the bit about the bosses. Guess they learned a thing or two from Retro Studios.
Post by: mantidor on January 24, 2006, 03:28:38 AM
Those arent news anyway, we already knew that! I want actually new info, screens, release date, anything for the love of god!
Post by: Informant on January 24, 2006, 03:33:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
edit: whoa, whoa, whoa, awesome. Especially the bit about the bosses. Guess they learned a thing or two from Retro Studios.
They learned to be unnecessarily cruel? Okay...
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 24, 2006, 03:37:11 AM
I'm personally more interested in the bit about Ganon, because that is definitely something that doesn't make sense...That is, if this game truly is still only 40 years after OoT like it was at E3...
Post by: Infernal Monkey on January 24, 2006, 03:39:48 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on January 24, 2006, 03:48:59 AM
I though the puppet bosses at the end of Wind Waker were annoying but challenging.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 24, 2006, 07:19:19 AM
It's good to hear the enemies will be more of a challenge. I loved combat in Wind Waker, it was just plain fun, but it'll be nice to get something a bit more gritty and challenging, too.
As for the news on Ganon, I'm not sure what to think. I didn't really want him in the game, I wanted to see a new adversary (like Majora's Mask), but the guy's quote is very vague. Ganon could still be involved in an indirect way, possibly influencing someone else? It's hard to say. However, I'm sure whatever they do will be very interesting (sounds like it, anyway), so I look forward to it. Let it be said, however, that I hope a new big villain shows up in some way, be it the final boss or some pre-final boss.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 24, 2006, 08:23:25 AM
Post by: vudu on January 24, 2006, 08:34:06 AM
It actually kind of ticks me off. I sure could have gone without knowing that. Serves me right for using the Internet.
Post by: Mario on January 24, 2006, 12:38:39 PM
Post by: stevey on January 24, 2006, 12:50:58 PM
pinch me
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 24, 2006, 01:13:17 PM
At this point, I too may stop looking at Zelda stuff. There's no way everything will be spoiled, but I want to be internet-free around the time I play it, just so it's perpetually surprising me.
I remember getting EGM (which I subscribed to briefly for the Hsu and Chan comics) and they had this Wind Waker poster, and it spoiled pretty much every boss in the entire game (though it was still fun to play them and rediscover them). I'm still plotting my revenge, and I do not want that to happen again.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on January 25, 2006, 09:35:44 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2006, 11:39:53 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 25, 2006, 01:17:13 PM
. That is like Mario without Bowser, it just wouldn't feel right (which is probaly why I disliked Majora's Mask so much).
Post by: mantidor on January 25, 2006, 01:45:21 PM
Ganon in the game was confirmed long ago, this isnt really news. I was mad before for the lack of new info, but now that I think about it, is better this way, I dont want to spoil the game more, but whatever new info is released I will eagerly read it and analyze it, I cant help it T_T.
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 25, 2006, 01:47:34 PM
Post by: Mario on January 25, 2006, 03:18:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Some don't want Ganon? You can't have a great Zelda game without Ganon
Majora's Mask and Minish Cap are the two best Zeldas, you lose.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2006, 03:28:31 PM
Post by: MysticGohan on January 25, 2006, 04:50:02 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 25, 2006, 07:34:49 PM
Exactly
Vaati is incredibly awesome, and I think it's tied for Nightmare as my all-time favorite Zelda end boss. Wind Waker's is a close second, though.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 25, 2006, 07:47:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MysticGohan
heh, Bill we still have to see a 3D version of the hydra like dragon from "The Legend of Zelda"
Gleeock is cool, but Aquamentus would be better...
Post by: Mario on January 25, 2006, 10:36:04 PM
And I don't see anything special about Vaati, Ganon is much cooler.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2006, 03:07:23 AM
Ganon is old hat
Post by: Mario on January 26, 2006, 03:16:07 AM
Link is older hat, so he must suck even more
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2006, 04:28:38 AM
Adult Link is old hat, toon-shaded Link isn't...I declare we need more of that!
Post by: Mario on January 26, 2006, 04:30:52 AM
Adult Link is actually younger than Young Link, since the very first Link was young, he's the oldest. More toon shaded is also good.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2006, 04:33:35 AM
If we are comparing Twilight Princess Link with Wind Waker Link, TP Link is OLDER because Twilight Princess takes place before Wind Waker! =O
Post by: Mario on January 26, 2006, 04:39:52 AM
How can TP Link be older than TWW Link when TP isn't even out yet thus making TP Link not even born yet? It's impossible because TWW is older and always will be. Unless Link from TP is actually Link from TWW, who travelled back in time to OOT and is 52 years old in TP
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2006, 04:44:53 AM
You silly person, the games don't take place in the order that they come out! Twilight Princess takes place 40 years after Ocarina of Time while Wind Waker is chronologically "hundreds of years" (1000 years, most likely) after Ocarina of Time. Of course, the time period for TP could easily change before it releases...
Post by: Mario on January 26, 2006, 04:54:22 AM
So basically you just admitted that, chronologically, Wind Waker Link is the oldest. His actual age in the games can't be debated because it could be anything, TP Link could be a 40 year old midget who's been stretched to normal size, or a 5 year old who eats his vegetables. TWW could also be a 41 year old midget, who hasn't been stretched, which woudl make him a year older than TP Link in actual age. See, chronological age is the only way to go.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on January 26, 2006, 05:14:29 AM
The Legend of Zelda
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons & The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages (If you play both and link the data together)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Ganon has not been the boss of:
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (Seperately)
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages (Seperatly)
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure (Both GBA & GCN Versions?)
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: The Minnish Cap
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2006, 06:47:51 AM
You also fight "him" in Link's Awakening somewhat...
Post by: IceCold on January 26, 2006, 08:41:13 AM
Post by: mantidor on January 26, 2006, 10:47:28 AM
My unplayed Zelda games are:
Oracle games
Minish cap
Links Awakening
guess what Nintendo platform I've never had
I should get Minish Cap sometime though, bu its hard to find.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 26, 2006, 10:57:26 AM
Post by: Requiem on January 26, 2006, 11:05:27 AM
Once I get a DS, Minish cap is first on my list.
So who else thinks Ganondorf will finally have his huge ass sword and long ass cape in TP? I don't know who said it, but Smash Bros.'s model of Ganondorf was perfect. Honestly, the only thing I would change is his size (make him a bit bigger). Also, can you imagine an inter-dimensional battle between Ganondorf? Like you fight him in the real world until if flees into the Twilight Realm. From there you fight him with whatever unique powers you'll have in that realm until he flees back into the real world. But beware, he automatically transforms into Ganon in the Twilight Realm and is enormous in side. Finally, you trap him in the real world. Once you are about to deal the finally blow, he uses his triforce of power to transport you to into some other realm (maybe something akin to hell!). Anyway, just a thought
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 26, 2006, 11:27:13 AM
Post by: Requiem on January 26, 2006, 11:32:14 AM
P.S. I was saying he should be a bit bigger than the SSBM's version. Obviously in WW he was a good size (I probably just should of said that instead).
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 26, 2006, 01:25:26 PM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on January 26, 2006, 02:53:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
In Four Swords Adventures, you do fight Ganon...
You also fight "him" in Link's Awakening somewhat...
I must have forgot the FSA Ganon, duh stupid me. The Links Awakening one is in spirit only, as you know.
Post by: MysticGohan on January 26, 2006, 02:55:47 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 26, 2006, 03:05:16 PM
How come I keep forgetting that there's a whole month between February and April.
Post by: stevey on January 26, 2006, 03:12:23 PM
Post by: IceCold on January 26, 2006, 04:15:21 PM
QuoteThere is? Oh sh-..
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Is the release date still April?
How come I keep forgetting that there's a whole month between February and April.
Post by: BigJim on January 26, 2006, 04:26:17 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 26, 2006, 04:27:44 PM
Post by: Mario on January 26, 2006, 04:33:19 PM
Post by: Requiem on January 26, 2006, 04:40:01 PM
If they show TP with REV controls, then dont expect it out till the REV launchs.
If they show TP and mentioning nothing of REV controls, then expect it out sooner.
Its kinda like a demented groundhogs day.....
Post by: BigJim on January 26, 2006, 05:12:13 PM
Post by: Requiem on January 26, 2006, 06:18:19 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 26, 2006, 07:09:58 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 27, 2006, 04:27:55 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 27, 2006, 05:03:47 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 27, 2006, 05:51:25 AM
I predict the game will come out in May or June.
Post by: MysticGohan on January 27, 2006, 06:37:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Releasing it around Rev's launch would be so dumb in my eyes. The game will get lost in the next gen hype, similar to what happen with Majora's Mask when it launched so near the ps2 launch.
eh? Lies! last I've checked MM was pwing the PS2 in sales at the time
Post by: vudu on January 27, 2006, 08:32:48 AM
QuoteYou can already play Link's Awakening in the comfort of your own home via either the Game Boy Player or the Super Game Boy.
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I'm actually hoping that the Virtual console is popular enough that Ninty adds GameBoy games to the mix...Then you could get Link's Awakening from the comfort of your home...
Post by: JonLeung on January 27, 2006, 08:51:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Anybody got sales for all the games in the series? Ha ha, tall order.
I predict the game will come out in May or June.
I actually saw a picture of a slide used in one of Nintendo's presentations that listed all the Zelda games' sales. Too bad I didn't save it.
Four Swords Adventures didn't sell too well. I bought it, and enjoyed it, but it was over too soon, I could've just rented it like all the other much longer games that I do, but hey, I love Zelda games. Too bad they took out Tetra's Trackers.
Hopefully the Tingle RPG on the DS is any good. Because I'd probably get it just because of the connection to the Zelda universe.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 27, 2006, 09:22:16 AM
Followed closely by Super Princess Peach.
I am a severely disturbed man
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 27, 2006, 09:38:34 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on January 27, 2006, 09:38:35 AM
Post by: vudu on January 27, 2006, 10:17:41 AM
QuoteVery nice. What's the thing in the upper right-hand corner? It moved too fast for me to tell.
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I have just made a startling discovery!
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 27, 2006, 11:02:09 AM
Post by: TMW on January 27, 2006, 12:34:09 PM
Really, I'd say April or May is the most likley...and just think, if they release in April, then TP will be playable with Rev controls at E3.
Which...now that I think about it, is possibly the entire reason they added Rev controls in the first place.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 27, 2006, 01:50:03 PM
Post by: mantidor on January 27, 2006, 02:28:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Majora's Mask sold in line with every other Zelda title that isn't OoT, so it was nowhere near "lost"...
Its not just in sales ( and TP should at least surpass MM sales for being the most over hyped Zelda game ever at the very least), the focus of the gaming community in general shifts completly to the new generation when it arrives. MM is still an obscure title if you compare it with OoT, which is far, far more known and recognized, and I think is safe to say Nintendo dont want TP to recieve that kind of treatment.
Post by: King of Twitch on January 27, 2006, 02:51:50 PM
Post by: Zach on January 28, 2006, 08:04:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I have just made a startling discovery!
Am I missing something? I dont get it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 28, 2006, 08:30:12 PM
Post by: TMW on January 28, 2006, 08:45:40 PM
Midna is Tingle's wife. She fled to the twilight realm when she realized what a pyschopath he was.
Post by: norebonomis on January 29, 2006, 05:55:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Nile Boogie
MY GOD!! Can I please get something new on this game. The wait is almost unbearable. If not soon, I'll have to get Jade Empire...oh and an XboX to play it on.
HAHAHA, and an xbox to play it on, this guy cracks me up....
Post by: stevey on February 06, 2006, 12:01:10 PM
Post by: Dasmos on February 06, 2006, 02:14:11 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 06, 2006, 03:49:43 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 06, 2006, 04:07:19 PM
I still firmly believe that it'll release around the time of year Wind Waker did.
Post by: vudu on February 07, 2006, 08:04:32 AM
A thought occurred to me the other day—we’ve never met Link’s parents. In Link to the Past he lived with his uncle at the beginning of the game. In Ocarina of Time he lived with the Kokiris. In Wind Waker he lived with his sister and grandmother. In Minish Cap he lived with his grandfather. As far as I remember, nothing was said about his home-life in any of the other games.
I’m sure there’s a reason why Nintendo has never given Link a traditional family. Perhaps it’s to give the player a small sense of isolation while playing the game. Maybe it’s a partial way to explain how a young boy is able to muster up the courage to save Hyrule.
Post by: mantidor on February 07, 2006, 08:26:04 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 07, 2006, 08:36:00 AM
Where's Zelda's mom?
Where's Ruto's mom?
Where's Malon's mom?
Where's Link (Darunia's kid)'s mom? (do gorons reproduce like the other 2-armed, 2-legged citizens of hyrule?)
Post by: Nosferat2 on February 07, 2006, 10:19:47 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 07, 2006, 10:21:49 AM
Post by: mantidor on February 07, 2006, 10:29:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
We know Link's mama died in OoT.
Where's Zelda's mom?
Where's Ruto's mom?
Where's Malon's mom?
Where's Link (Darunia's kid)'s mom? (do gorons reproduce like the other 2-armed, 2-legged citizens of hyrule?)
all dead
Post by: stevey on February 07, 2006, 11:19:47 AM
It's Cremia.
Post by: IceCold on February 07, 2006, 01:04:47 PM
Quote2000th reply, 2001st post
Originally posted by: Nosferat2
HA, just wanted to be the 2000th post. Cant wait for the game.
Post by: TMW on February 07, 2006, 02:15:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
We know Link's mama died in OoT.
Where's Zelda's mom?
Where's Ruto's mom?
Where's Malon's mom?
Where's Link (Darunia's kid)'s mom? (do gorons reproduce like the other 2-armed, 2-legged citizens of hyrule?)
Supposedly, Speilberg has a thing about fathers in his movies...maybe Miyamoto has a thing against mothers?
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 07, 2006, 04:08:08 PM
I can definitely see that with Ruto. Her head is huge.
I think Link being an orphan says a whole lot, very interesting detail and one I like a lot.
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 07, 2006, 04:09:54 PM
Post by: IceCold on February 07, 2006, 04:48:40 PM
QuoteUmmmm, Zoras?
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Do Rutos lay eggs or what?
Post by: mantidor on February 08, 2006, 06:01:31 AM
and acording to Majora's mask, yes, they lay eggs.
Oh, and also, its explicitly said that Tetra's mom died in the Wind Waker. Indeed, orphans are everywhere for Zelda games.
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 08, 2006, 09:16:36 AM
Post by: TMW on February 09, 2006, 06:43:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Actually, that was a typo, I meant to say "Rito," the race of bird-peeps on Dragon Roost. Of course, if they're descendants of the Zoras, then I guess they do lay eggs.
Wait, what?
Did I miss something?
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 09, 2006, 07:29:22 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 09, 2006, 07:33:53 AM
Post by: TMW on February 09, 2006, 08:21:43 AM
And...yeah. I don't remember that part. The suggestion, I mean.
Post by: couchmonkey on February 10, 2006, 10:31:54 AM
Just one of those stupid questions that bugs me. I'm excited to see what races make it into Twighlight Princess. I hope there's something new in there. The...uh, I forget there names, the leaf people that descended from the Kokiri children were awesome. They really freaked me out the first time I saw them.
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 10, 2006, 11:58:15 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 10, 2006, 01:49:32 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 10, 2006, 02:20:38 PM
Post by: mantidor on February 10, 2006, 02:42:46 PM
Post by: TMW on February 11, 2006, 11:58:05 AM
Post by: mantidor on February 11, 2006, 03:06:04 PM
Post by: TMW on February 11, 2006, 03:21:27 PM
Really, its a pretty far cry that a race of Fish People would naturally evolve roughly homo sapien forms, and THEN find a way to take to the air.
I mean, 1000 years is hardly enough time for such a radical change in physiology.
Post by: mantidor on February 11, 2006, 03:47:58 PM
Post by: Nile Boogie on February 11, 2006, 07:56:03 PM
Post by: Mario on February 12, 2006, 12:07:09 AM
Anyone else secretly hoping they're going to announce the release date two weeks before the game is out? Like.. soon.. ahageag i'm going crazy
Post by: TMW on February 12, 2006, 10:51:34 AM
April.
April.
April.
April.
April.
April.
April.
Oh great. April has just lost all meaning to me.
Post by: stevey on February 12, 2006, 11:49:31 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on February 12, 2006, 07:47:50 PM
"How is Link going to walk around if they're covering the ground and everywhere he goes there is an annoying scratching sound and shouldn't we be adding more polygons to malon?"
"I dunno! Get back to work!"
Post by: Hostile Creation on February 12, 2006, 08:34:05 PM
That way I could play it uninterrupted during summer vacation
Post by: Nile Boogie on February 13, 2006, 03:41:21 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 13, 2006, 08:31:53 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 13, 2006, 08:46:07 AM
Post by: Mario on February 20, 2006, 01:50:16 AM
Quote
I'm not trying to tease anyone, I'm just saying the reason why nothing is being shown is because an AWFUL LOT of work has gone in since we all saw screens last year and when NCL finally decides to show it you'll see what I mean.
As for us having new stuff, we're STILL waiting for NCL to give the green light and deadline is fast approaching.
You will say wow
Post by: wandering on February 20, 2006, 01:51:44 AM
Post by: Mario on February 20, 2006, 01:53:12 AM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on February 20, 2006, 02:38:44 AM
Post by: stevey on February 20, 2006, 03:23:19 AM
The twilight world is cel-shaded, short of.
Post by: mantidor on February 20, 2006, 05:33:51 AM
Im such a masoquist for reading those post at gaf, theres a certain comedy in the site though, like the guy who cant accept the DS is a massive success. Now Im going to really try to avoid spoilers, and since its obvious the coming months are going to be packed with the game's information I think Ill stay away from the thread...
Ill try anyway...
Post by: norebonomis on February 20, 2006, 11:52:13 AM
Post by: stevey on February 20, 2006, 12:10:44 PM
Q:Has the release of Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess been pushed back once again?
No, it has not. We have gone on record that we are launching it in 2006 on GameCube and that is still the plan.Q:I ask because some retailers are showing June 1, while others are showing May 15. Is that about when we should expect it?
No, we have not told retailers a specific launch date and we’ll be working with all of our key retailers and sharing that information shortly, getting pre-sales set up, and really driving the buzz and the interest in this title in the way our fans want it to be. We know -- and our fans know -- that Zelda certainly will be the biggest and best title ever for GameCube. And we will market it as such and we know the consumers won’t be disappointed.
Post by: IceCold on February 20, 2006, 12:32:04 PM
Post by: mantidor on February 20, 2006, 01:02:42 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 20, 2006, 02:43:50 PM
GameCube is so dead. Get an N-gage.
Post by: Mario on February 20, 2006, 05:10:34 PM
Post by: IceCold on February 20, 2006, 05:38:21 PM
Post by: norebonomis on February 21, 2006, 05:55:21 AM
Post by: vudu on February 21, 2006, 08:58:38 AM
QuoteThe whole April release month started when Nintendo told investors that it wouldn't ship until after March 31 (i.e. Nintendo's year-end). Nintendo is required to release information to investors that will have a large impact on their year-end bottom line. Nintendo said "after March 31" and everyone said "OMFG, Zelda in April!".
Originally posted by: mantidor
I have an interview with Reggie for Club Nintendo magazine right here where it says April 2006. They have never given a precise date though.
Post by: mantidor on February 21, 2006, 03:03:32 PM
Post by: norebonomis on February 21, 2006, 03:08:29 PM
Post by: IceCold on February 21, 2006, 09:36:40 PM
You know how it was Mario's 20th Birthday just a few months ago? Well, today is Zelda's 20th! Hooray!
Post by: Gamebasher on February 22, 2006, 06:37:59 AM
It will become the greatest RPG ever released to any console, having Forums across the world white hot with frantic discussions, and loud cries for gameplay help (one of the producers said it would be so hard our brains would melt).
OOT was named Game of the Century, this one will be named the same.
Post by: Artimus on February 22, 2006, 06:43:40 AM
Unless these delays have been to make it one?!
Link uses Cure 2
+40HP
Ganon use Moon Crush
Link has fallen
Post by: mantidor on February 22, 2006, 06:53:50 AM
However, Aunoma refers to the game as an RPG in many interviews...
Post by: 1day on February 22, 2006, 09:05:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
It's going to be hard to become the greatest RPG ever when it isn't an RPG.
Unless these delays have been to make it one?!
Link uses Cure 2
+40HP
Ganon use Moon Crush
Link has fallen
If you want to be so picky, then just refer to it as an action/rpg or action/adventure/rpg (the most exact one, I suppose). It's definitely not not an rpg
Post by: TMW on February 22, 2006, 09:10:20 AM
Hell, you can name him after yourself if you wanted too.
Post by: wandering on February 22, 2006, 09:59:45 AM
Post by: stevey on February 22, 2006, 11:40:06 AM
Post by: IceCold on February 22, 2006, 01:02:30 PM
Post by: TMW on February 22, 2006, 01:30:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
By that logic, Grand theft auto is an rpg too....
Well, only GTA III.
Post by: nickmitch on February 22, 2006, 01:51:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
ZELDA is gong to be the greatest everything.
Sports game of the year: LoZ:TP.
Post by: Renny on February 23, 2006, 06:19:05 AM
Post by: stevey on February 24, 2006, 01:36:26 PM
Post by: stevey on March 09, 2006, 11:38:15 AM
Post by: TMW on March 09, 2006, 01:02:43 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 09, 2006, 01:39:04 PM
Post by: mantidor on March 09, 2006, 02:05:20 PM
And as far as Zelda sports, fishing minigame was better than all maddens combined, in fact if theres any of this silly rev functionality that would be the only one Id be happy with.
EDIT: Link is already elminated WTF!? get better sponsors PGC! the people at ugo suck beyond words....
Post by: Gamebasher on March 10, 2006, 08:19:40 AM
As for this thread, it seems it is drifting totally away from it´s intended purpose: a discussion about the new Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.
But then again, what´s really left to be discussed? Hasn´t everything about that game already been discussed to death? I personally am just waiting for the game to come out. On that merry day, after buying the game, I will take it with me to the highest building I can find in my city, and there THANK the Gaming Gods for allowing us to once more experience the joys of Hyrule - this time a hundred times better!
Og thank Heaven for Sev...erh...Nintendo Heaven!
Post by: Dasmos on March 10, 2006, 11:50:32 AM
Post by: stevey on March 10, 2006, 12:35:37 PM
Look at the top page, their the non-google/boobs ads
and in 13 more we see what zelda has now become after a year and we be discussing the awesomeness of new trailers and screen shots coming from the gdc thanking nintendo for the delay. *drool*
Post by: King of Twitch on March 10, 2006, 08:23:13 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2006, 09:32:53 PM
And Link rides off with Tingle into the Alaskan Sunset.
Post by: King of Twitch on March 11, 2006, 09:09:19 AM
Post by: Zach on March 11, 2006, 10:22:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MJRx9000
I don't think we've dicussed Princess Zelda dying at the final battle have we?
I think that has been discussed, maybe not in this thread, possibly in the talkback. I remember talking about it, but there is no way that I am going to look back through all of the zelda stuff on this forum to find it.
Post by: TMW on March 11, 2006, 05:19:41 PM
Seriously.
Post by: Renny on March 12, 2006, 09:57:37 AM
Post by: King of Twitch on March 12, 2006, 08:55:11 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 15, 2006, 07:48:35 AM
Confirmed in NOE interview...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 15, 2006, 10:11:35 AM
Post by: IceCold on March 15, 2006, 12:08:07 PM
Post by: Mario on March 15, 2006, 03:18:57 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 15, 2006, 08:56:59 PM
AHA! Now I have a GameCube for every bedroom in my house!
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 17, 2006, 02:38:15 PM
You should take its innards out and use it as a lunchbox. Oh, the novelty.
Post by: Rancid Planet on March 17, 2006, 08:09:08 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 17, 2006, 08:36:43 PM
If I happen across a broken one, I'm totally doing that. Awesome suggestion
Post by: TMW on March 17, 2006, 08:59:19 PM
That also held my lunch.
Post by: nickmitch on March 18, 2006, 05:58:20 AM
I can turn on in to a lunch box and still play the other!
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 19, 2006, 05:38:33 AM
Post by: TMW on March 19, 2006, 08:35:43 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on March 20, 2006, 12:27:15 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on March 20, 2006, 12:34:42 PM
For serious folks, I have to cut away a large portion of the plastic, I can't leave the GC case entirely intact unfortunatley. And just so everyone knows, I have no doubt that this project will fail miserably, but I'm going to give it my all :P
Post by: jasonditz on March 20, 2006, 04:45:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Ahahah, absolutely.
For serious folks, I have to cut away a large portion of the plastic, I can't leave the GC case entirely intact unfortunatley. And just so everyone knows, I have no doubt that this project will fail miserably, but I'm going to give it my all :P
It'd be cool if you could get a top-loading drive to stick in it, but that's probably easier said than done. You might be further ahead to have a tray slide out where the controller ports would be. Then maybe stick something weird in the top, like a multi-format Flash card reader.
It'd be awesome to make it a general purpose Firewire device, stick a big hard drive in the bottom and DVD+-RW tray loader with a flash device on top... then you could plug it into a Mac G4 Cube and have Cube on Cube action.
Post by: stevey on March 21, 2006, 11:49:13 AM
Post by: Caliban on March 21, 2006, 06:41:24 PM
Post by: Mario on March 21, 2006, 06:49:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
Rev sparkling innovation axed - Miyamoto
Sweet
Post by: wandering on March 21, 2006, 06:59:05 PM
Oh, I posted this in the other thread, but here's the exact quote from the magazine:
Quote
Zelda is a project with a huge volume of people and complex game development procedures," said Miyamoto, speaking with Official Nintendo Magazine. "As soon as we decided to postpone the game from last year to this year and make the perfect Zelda, all the team were delighted to have the time to work on many ideas.
Post by: Gamebasher on March 22, 2006, 07:23:06 AM
Zelda will not be a "flop", in which I think everyone will agree (including yourself). If anything will be a flop, it will be the Playstation 3!
Phony Haystation III, Next-generation control nightmare torched!
Post by: mantidor on March 22, 2006, 11:54:05 AM
After giving some thought I hope they only add the first person aiming I was so pissed about, at least I would know where the real focus of the game was put on.
Or just the fishing, I would be happy with that.
Post by: wandering on March 22, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Quote
The only way it could be perfect is if the revolution implementation is flawless as well as the GC one, which is simply impossible.
'impossibe' and 'nintendo' should never be uttered in the same sentence.
...not that you actually did utter them in the same sentence. But, yeah. You know what I mean.
Post by: mantidor on March 23, 2006, 05:54:39 AM
let it be only the fishing,... please!
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 23, 2006, 06:02:25 PM
Post by: Caliban on March 23, 2006, 07:48:58 PM
Post by: Mario on March 23, 2006, 09:06:12 PM
Post by: Artimus on March 23, 2006, 09:15:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Great... my hype for this game is just falling apart, they've been working on another Zelda game alongside this, as well as the Rev crap, there's no way this is going to be a classic.
Zelda games made during the same period:
Link's Awakening + Lttp
Majora's Mask + Oracles
Wink Waker + Minish Cap
Twilight Princess + Minish Cap
Are you just stupid?
Post by: King of Twitch on March 23, 2006, 11:22:29 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 24, 2006, 01:36:21 AM
Post by: mantidor on March 24, 2006, 05:16:53 AM
Post by: TMW on March 24, 2006, 08:45:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Link's Awakening + Lttp
Majora's Mask + Oracles
Wink Waker + Minish Cap
Twilight Princess + Minish Cap
Erm...not that I agree with him or anything, but weren't Link's Awakening, Oracles, and Minish Cap all produced by Capcom?
Has it been stated what team has been working on Twilight Princess? The Wind Waker team was said to be working on Phantom Hourglass, I was just wondering if it had been stated who exactly was the TP team.
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 24, 2006, 09:11:20 AM
Also, Miyamoto said that Twilight Princess would be nearly perfect. Why should anyone have any reason to doubt that? He knows a lot more about it than you. Only reason you're doubting it is because we haven't heard news about it, so you're forgetting how awesome it'll be.
Making the assumption that the Rev functionality will be lame is pretty dumb. I mean, it might not be amazing, but it could be really well done.
Really, all this strife is totally uncalled for.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 24, 2006, 11:57:49 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 24, 2006, 02:26:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
If the real reason for the delay is that the Zelda team had to start focusing on Phantom Hourglass instead of the lame rev functionality I wouldnt mind one bit to have to wait more months.
Two completely different teams working on each title...
Post by: Assman on March 29, 2006, 04:41:03 PM
Post by: Bloodworth on March 29, 2006, 08:58:19 PM
Post by: Svevan on March 29, 2006, 09:52:09 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 29, 2006, 10:38:55 PM
Wind Waker was a Happy Meal without the toy. Easy to ingest, and still incomplete. Spare me that sort of effort, Nintendo. GIVE ME THE GRANDE MEAL.
Uh oh, is that firewood burning again...?
Post by: mantidor on March 30, 2006, 05:57:20 AM
Post by: jasonditz on March 30, 2006, 08:53:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Great... my hype for this game is just falling apart, they've been working on another Zelda game alongside this, as well as the Rev crap, there's no way this is going to be a classic.
Zelda games made during the same period:
Link's Awakening + Lttp
Majora's Mask + Oracles
Wink Waker + Minish Cap
Twilight Princess + Minish Cap
Are you just stupid?
Not to spoil your fun, but there probably was no real overlap between LA and LTTP (LA was released a year and a half later, and that's probably all the time it took to develop a GB title).
Oh, and those other pairing all involve a title not made by Nintendo
Post by: stevey on March 30, 2006, 01:52:04 PM
That's a few months old. And on other news Aonuma on an interview said that Tp "will be utilising the Revolution hardware, although not in a way many will expect."
Post by: Caterkiller on March 30, 2006, 07:07:40 PM
Unless im super late with it, we will be discussing this stuff for a while now. Can't wait to see what Ian thinks of the Rev control method.
Im trying to get back to the link, but its not getting working. This amazing interview is real I tell you, its really real!
Post by: IceCold on March 30, 2006, 07:10:27 PM
Post by: Mario on March 30, 2006, 07:13:32 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on March 30, 2006, 07:25:46 PM
And No it can't be. Its not the first yet and I don't get fooled so easily. Well regardless, allow me to tell you all what it discussed.
The game was supposedly delayed because of the wolf mechanics rather than the revolution control. The team didn't feel that the wolf controlled right.
When asked about other Zelda characters in the next Smash Bros, it was said that some new characters will be characters from TP.
They want to have online functionality with Zelda, but no more 4 swords. Their deal with Capcom is over and there were already 3 games dealing with that, so they want to do something new.
Phantom Hour Glass is a direct sequal to WW. They scrapped the idea of the Tingle game because of the reaction of the press and fans, but alot of its elements are present in PHG. Phantom Hourglass is the name of the new title right?
Aonuma stated that after TP he wants to take Zelda away from the usual Ganon, Triforce formula. He wants to do voice acting within the game, and said that Link would most likely remain silent. This is a partial explaination to the "last Zelda as we know it" statements.
When on the revolution there is supposedly an "enhanced" option, but he said nothing about it.
He said when controlling with the revolution, the battles take place in a 1st person mode. Depending on how hard you swing the controller, it depends on how fast, and far your weapons are thrown. And I believe the sword and shield will work just like we think it will. Some puzzles on the Revolution version will be solved differently than the Gamecube version.
Well thats all I can remember right now. And I guess alot of this seems alittle too big to be true, but I soooo think it is.
Oh and they are starting on their very own Zelda anime within there soon to be animation devision. But it may or may not come out to the public.
Post by: IceCold on March 30, 2006, 07:30:43 PM
Interesting..
EDIT: Well, tripleX found it - it's in a thread in the Revolution section. And I'm sorry to say Cater, but I'm convinced that it's bullshit.
Post by: mantidor on March 31, 2006, 02:58:24 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 31, 2006, 03:12:21 AM
Also, I think the interview is fake. Maybe just because I want to believe Tingle RPG is out there somewhere.
Post by: mantidor on March 31, 2006, 03:53:09 AM
One of the first complains after the first promo video was that gaming with the rev was going to be tiring, but the hands on impression debunked that saying that the controller was never meant to be moved across the whole room, I really doubt we have to be moving the way people moved in the video. And Zelda first person exculsively would be ugly as hell. Zelda is not a first person game
it uses the perspective for some items but thats it, the controller can offer so much more than first person.Also, Im sure Tingle RPG wasnt meant to be the Zelda game for the DS, or was it?
Post by: Hostile Creation on March 31, 2006, 09:56:47 AM
Wrist movements. C'mon, remember? You don't have to flail like a retard if you don't want to.
"And Zelda first person exculsively would be ugly as hell. Zelda is not a first person game"
Nor was it 3D, until Ocarina of Time. At least give it a chance. Eventually, most games will be a fully immersive experience. Why inhibit something that cool?
Post by: Bloodworth on March 31, 2006, 03:38:44 PM
Post by: TMW on March 31, 2006, 03:52:45 PM
Post by: Svevan on March 31, 2006, 07:06:41 PM
Post by: Zach on April 02, 2006, 10:40:37 AM
Post by: IceCold on April 02, 2006, 01:48:04 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 03, 2006, 05:38:07 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 03, 2006, 06:52:10 AM
2D and 3D (rear perspective) Zelda will always be important to me, and I hope they continue making them indefinitely, but I suspect they intend to try a new perspective when Rev comes out.
Post by: Caliban on April 03, 2006, 08:30:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Do you people really think that first person zelda would be a good idea? O_o
I've been playing "Elder Scrolls IV - Oblivian" on my PC and so far my experience with it has been whithin fun parameters, you can even switch between 1st and 3rd person view and you can have that in a Zelda game too, actually we've had that it's just that before we couldn't swing our sword or raise our shiled in 1st person view.
Post by: Requiem on April 03, 2006, 12:33:41 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 04, 2006, 04:59:40 AM
Regarding the change from third to first person, its a good option, but I personally prefer the game changing perspectives accordingly like 3D Zeldas rather than me having to decide, it makes the experience more seamless
Post by: Caliban on April 04, 2006, 06:08:38 AM
Post by: mantidor on April 04, 2006, 06:59:45 AM
First person is for aiming basically, thats why if you use lock on first person is gone. Aiming in third person sucks, so if you have the option for changing freely perspectives it would be wasted in that part, because you'll choose first person if you have to aim. Thats why I say that instead of choosing the game should do it, so you dont start caring about which perspective is better.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 04, 2006, 09:30:41 AM
~~~~~
Why not semi-over the shoulder semi-tranparent views? I had classic Punch Out in mind.
Post by: Requiem on April 05, 2006, 06:48:18 AM
Imagine playing RE4.....
Now Imagine playing RE4 with the NRC as your tool to aim.....
Ya, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Zelda could change the camera and make it even better. While running around, it could be just like WW in that you use the NRC to spin the camera or zoom in and out. As you lock on or pull out a bow, the camera swoops down to link's left shoulder (since he is left-handed).
That's it really, and it would feel like Zelda has upgraded by leaps and bounds.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 05, 2006, 09:30:36 AM
Post by: TMW on April 05, 2006, 09:42:55 AM
And laser pointers are ok, but not crosshairs? =P
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 05, 2006, 10:01:58 AM
And when I say crosshairs I mean the targetting reticule a game draws and floats on the screen as part of the general GUI. Link never needed such a thing in the 3D games cuz the 1st-person view was centered on Link's eyesight, the center of the screen was the destination of the arrow, and the game used tracers to help you see.
Post by: TMW on April 05, 2006, 12:18:57 PM
YOU MISUNDERSTAND ME, SIR
Post by: Requiem on April 06, 2006, 06:45:23 AM
The aim can still be centered on the screen, except this time Link's arms are the tracers towards the middle.
It'll be hard to get use to, but then again, would you have it any other way. Plus, if there was a laser pointer, the NRC would make it entirely WAY TOO EASY for you to aim.
Just imagining RE4 with the NRC makes it seem really easy. HeadShot! Headshot! headSHoT!
Post by: Bloodworth on April 06, 2006, 07:11:15 PM
http://www.zhq2.com/handle_the_truth.shtml
Post by: IceCold on April 06, 2006, 07:20:20 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 06, 2006, 07:33:33 PM
Post by: Caliban on April 06, 2006, 07:46:22 PM
Anyway. I wonder what changes they could have made to the wolf mechanics to make it feel more natural controlling it.
Post by: Caterkiller on April 06, 2006, 08:52:47 PM
Post by: norebonomis on April 11, 2006, 08:41:56 PM
the revolution function will be controlling midna's little scarf thing... in thrilling 3D!!! oooooh!
Post by: Artimus on April 11, 2006, 11:29:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
Is everyone still debating this as if it's actually happening?
http://www.zhq2.com/handle_the_truth.shtml
LMAO. More proof that April Fools is a stupid, stupid thing.
Post by: stevey on April 25, 2006, 01:47:19 PM
Post by: TMW on April 25, 2006, 05:03:23 PM
Post by: Renny on April 25, 2006, 08:15:33 PM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 01, 2006, 01:20:43 PM
Quote
Dear Amazon.com Customer,
We've noticed that customers who have purchased Mario Superstar Baseball
are also interested in The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess for the
GameCube. For this reason, you might like to know that The Legend of
Zelda: Twilight Princess will be released on May 15, 2006. You can
pre-order your copy by following the link below.
Of course it's not true. I'm guessing the placeholder date in their database is May 15, and now that it's May, their automatic email system sent out this notice to anyone it figured might be interested. I wonder what kind of feedback Amazon will get if a lot of people believe them and get disappointed.
Post by: norebonomis on May 01, 2006, 04:19:04 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 01, 2006, 04:43:16 PM
Anyway, that's what I'm hoping
(I wanna play TP over the summer, when I have ample time to do so, that'd be soooo awesome)
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 01, 2006, 04:52:05 PM
No chance, though. Never happening. There are certain things you come to expect from Nintendo, and an eternally delayed Zelda is one of them.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 01, 2006, 06:12:29 PM
Post by: stevey on May 02, 2006, 02:21:02 PM
Post by: Svevan on May 04, 2006, 10:07:53 PM
Post by: stevey on May 05, 2006, 04:14:25 AM
http:The gamecube not dead yet
"GameCube will be getting more titles, including some sequels to series that are well known. Hagishima states that one of the titles in development will surprise people with the new kind of gameplay it achieves on the GameCube. He claims to have actually played the game and promises that it will be announced soon"
It says announced soon and titles so TP is not going to be the last gamecube game or the last great gamecube game!
Post by: vudu on May 05, 2006, 10:24:33 AM
These are almost certainly fake. But it's fun to post it here and watch mantidor complain.
Post by: mantidor on May 05, 2006, 11:48:39 AM
Besides if they wanted to propose the worst possible remote functionality the have certainly achieve it! If Nintendo decides to replace sword slashing with remote slashing instead of a simple button and maybe some specialized attack like the Wind Waker's parry using the remote I wont care for the next Zelda after Twilight Princess, Zelda as weird as it sounds is not really a sword fighting game, and I dont want to wave my arms during a whole 40-hours-long game.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 08, 2006, 11:57:53 AM
Tidbits stolen from GAF...
-Zelda is 80% complete, delay was for graphic tweaks, wii functions and because they want the game to be measured on a scale of 1 to 120 instead of 1 to 100.
-NO SWINGING THE CONTROLLER for the sword, you just press a button. There are some cases where you will swing though. Reason = you'll get tired too fast
-Controller does sound effects (Speaker on the Wiimote)
-Widescreen on the REV only!
-Navi is only when you play on the REV.
-Something with online is planned but no battle mode.
-More dungeons than OOT already
-More items too
Post by: Mario on May 08, 2006, 12:29:38 PM
-PRETTY GOOD
-WHOA NEAT
-DONT CARE
-OK WHATEVER
-HMMM
-OK
-OK
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 12:47:53 PM
I eat my words and they are delicious!
"Reason = you'll get tired too fast"
I have been saying this ALL THE DAMN TIME, finally Nintendo said it so youll be with me on this one at least.
"-Widescreen on the REV only!
-Navi is only when you play on the REV."
slap for GC owners, but nothing to do.
"-Controller does sound effects (Speaker on the Wiimote)"
Awesome!
wait...
you are calling it REV, you arent pulling a prank here, are you? because Ill kill you if you are.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 08, 2006, 12:58:40 PM
Post by: stevey on May 08, 2006, 01:00:50 PM
I knew it GREATIST GAME OF ALL TIMES FOREVER!
-NO SWINGING THE CONTROLLER for the sword, you just press a button. There are some cases where you will swing though. Reason = you'll get tired too fast
thank god(reggie) I was getting sick of the bitching-Controller does sound effects (Speaker on the Wiimote)
cool
-Widescreen on the REV only!
yeah rev + HD = Wii'D!
-Navi is only when you play on the REV.
hey lisen!
-Something with online is planned but no battle mode.
Download new stuff like item & levels! O_o
-More dungeons than OOT already
knew it already
-More items too
Good!
Post by: IceCold on May 08, 2006, 01:07:29 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 08, 2006, 01:08:53 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 08, 2006, 01:16:32 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 08, 2006, 01:22:57 PM
*shrugs*
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 01:46:07 PM
to milk graphics whores.
I dont care since I dont have widescreen, but I will miss navi, damn! at least they wont do my worst fear, sword slashing with the remote, so I'll cope with the lack of navi, nothing else to do.
Post by: stevey on May 08, 2006, 02:34:48 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 08, 2006, 06:59:08 PM
Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 08:46:47 PM
Why is Navi Wii exclusive, I wonder? Just a feature intentionally held back to increase sales (GBA connectivity style), or do you control her with the Wiimote or something?
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 08, 2006, 09:02:23 PM
Guys, hold on, that's impossible. Remember, they delayed it only to add Wiimote functionality.
Post by: wandering on May 08, 2006, 10:46:04 PM
Wow, just wow.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 08, 2006, 11:02:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Wait, what? The new Zelda scans look better than the old ones?
Guys, hold on, that's impossible. Remember, they delayed it only to add Wiimote functionality.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
-Zelda is 80% complete, delay was for graphic tweaks, wii functions and because they want the game to be measured on a scale of 1 to 120 instead of 1 to 100.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 09, 2006, 01:28:26 AM
Post by: stevey on May 09, 2006, 04:34:27 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 09, 2006, 05:04:02 AM
The wii controls are really only there for financial reasons more than anything, its almost like the excecutives at Nintendo forced them after the team had to announce a delay. Its not something a game desginer like Aunoma or Miyamoto would do.
Post by: Dasmos on May 09, 2006, 05:04:15 AM
Post by: Guitar Smasher on May 09, 2006, 05:41:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
jeux france
The wii controls are really only there for financial reasons more than anything, its almost like the excecutives at Nintendo forced them after the team had to announce a delay. Its not something a game desginer like Aunoma or Miyamoto would do.
No, adding a little extra like different controls is something those designers would never do. Just like adding fishing as a minigame, completely out of the question. Don't act like you're on the team.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 09, 2006, 06:00:06 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 09, 2006, 06:11:02 AM
And Bill, apparently Nintendo has the same "hilarious assumptions" about the controls, I knew sword swinging was going to be awful and it seems they thought the same, and replace it for a button. I also mentioned using the controller as a real bow, and according to the scans, aunoma is doing just that.
Post by: Renny on May 09, 2006, 06:34:16 AM
Post by: stevey on May 09, 2006, 09:27:22 AM
,I hope that wii come soon...
Post by: trip1eX on May 09, 2006, 12:27:57 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 12, 2006, 09:25:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
I dont know about the two versions of TP being good or bad
its bad.
So angry aside, this game is looking really cool! I wish there was some sort of GC/rev comparison shots, but suposedly (damn spelling) the difference is almost null according to Aunoma, except the widescreen, but I wont get a widescreen in a very long time so I dont care.
Also the B&W is gone replaced with some surreal effect that looks a lot like the inside of the moon in Majora's Mask, which is just awesome
I hope they kept the B&W for some parts...the best is this though
I really didnt like the "No Tingle because its a game for NA market" attitude and all that crap, I was afraid they were going to go too "xxtreme" and serious, the goron above these two is borderline what I was fearing, but these characters not only clear all doubts, its a huge slap for the "mature" crowd who couldnt stand the little ackward humor that Tingle offered and hated the poor guy to death, haha, I get unconfortable just to think I have to meet these other guys.
Post by: Mario on May 12, 2006, 09:52:05 PM
I'm not buying this game until I get confirmation that the GC version lacks NOTHING but Wii controls (and widescreen).
Post by: IceCold on May 12, 2006, 09:55:33 PM
QuoteCorrect, except you got the wrong SMB (Lemieux & Siblings, not Primate & Sphere)
This seriously could have been the greatest game of all time, now it's just a sparkling innovation game for Wii that nobody will even look twice at next to Metroid Prime 3 and Super Monkey Ball
Shutup - G,B, same thing..
Post by: mantidor on May 12, 2006, 09:59:54 PM
Post by: Khushrenada on May 12, 2006, 10:19:45 PM
This was talked about in a thread before about how if Zelda is the first game people play with the controller, the controller needs to prove that it's better than the current set-up. If it doesn't do that, it makes the controller look bad. At the same time, if it is much better, why bother buying the Gamecube version? It's inferior.
Now, all these issues aside, Zelda is no doubt going to be a great game with a great story and gameplay and graphics. And I'm sure it will do well and be hailed as a great achievement. It just seems that Nintendo is dropping the ball lately with some of their decisions about it causing all these issues to overshadow the game. To me, right now based on what I've seen and hard, I'd buy the gamecube version. At the same time, I feel like I'll be missing out on better graphics and some extra things put in (Navi's an example) and so I should buy the Wii version. But then I'm not sold on the control for the Wii version. It's a horrible cycle.
Post by: Kenology on May 13, 2006, 06:49:28 AM
Speaking of difficulty...
My main concern with Twilight Princess is that it'll be another Wind Waker - an utter and complete pushover with disappointingly no-brainer puzzles and enemies that pose absolutely no challenge whatsoever. I never had to use a fairy and I didn't even heard "Game over" piece until I bought the 2-disc soundtrack - and that's just unacceptable. So hopefully, Nintendo will punish me. At the very least, they should include a hard mode a la Fire Emblem to give us Zelda veterans a formidable challenge (and a nice bonus for completing the hard mode would be nice).
Post by: mantidor on May 13, 2006, 10:00:17 AM
I really dont know if this is good or bad, the "hardcore" aproach... oh well, lets wait and see.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 13, 2006, 11:29:24 AM
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 13, 2006, 05:52:35 PM
how it's played with the Wii controller doesn't convince me, and it's probably the last "classic" Zelda, so to speak...
although, it would be wiser to wait until we get some comparison tables or something
Post by: wandering on May 13, 2006, 08:42:55 PM
Quote
It just seems that Nintendo is dropping the ball lately with some of their decisions about it causing all these issues to overshadow the game.
Well, I think they've learned from the 360 launch...which had a bunch of ports from the previous gen and worked out fine.
Anyway. Personally, I think the Wii version will control suprisingly well. Miyamoto himself is overseeing the control, after all.
Post by: Kairon on May 13, 2006, 10:59:26 PM
I'm giving it to them...freely..
/cry
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Dasmos on May 14, 2006, 04:23:37 AM
Post by: Svevan on May 14, 2006, 12:05:21 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 15, 2006, 11:51:57 AM
I figure I might as well get used to the Wii controls for traditional games. I have a feeling they'll feel a whole lot better than traditional controls once I get used to them.
Post by: Dasmos on May 16, 2006, 06:19:08 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 16, 2006, 06:30:04 PM
My official guess is that that picture is of a goron being posessed by the 'Twilight" (or some evil force....affiliated with Midna, mayhaps?). That armor is controlling him or something to that effect, and he's not very nice. The beady blue eyes scream "posessed" to me, and the positioning of the metal (especially on the head) makes it seem like more or a controlling device than anything practical
Remember Link fighting the Goron in the other video? That Goron had similar markings on his body like the one in the pic. They both look uncharactericly mean. That would indicate to me that we'll be seeing similar markings on other posessed creatures in the game....like Zoras and Deku Scrubs
Or maybe not.
Post by: mantidor on May 16, 2006, 06:42:34 PM
The soldier with walking spear and shield was pretty cool actually.
Post by: Zach on May 16, 2006, 07:54:46 PM
Post by: wandering on May 16, 2006, 08:29:33 PM
Quote
Just looking at the EGM scans again. What has Nintendo done to the gorons? ;______;
They've been tortured and mutilated, and now, perfected.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 16, 2006, 09:06:11 PM
Post by: Mario on May 16, 2006, 10:01:25 PM
God damn it, i'm actually hyped for this game again. Hurry up and come out
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2006, 08:14:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
God damn it, i'm actually hyped for this game again. Hurry up and come out
Im the same too
I suppose we are back to thisQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
You're only torturing yourself
we dont even have a set date for the game because of this launch title deal
But we've waited 2 years already, whats mere 6-8 months? its eternity T_T
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 09:03:17 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on May 17, 2006, 09:53:14 AM
Post by: stevey on May 17, 2006, 10:44:31 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 17, 2006, 10:59:50 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2006, 11:52:41 AM
Im sitcking with Mario's speculation.
Edit: and Stevie Americas is not just US.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 12:54:06 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 01:27:41 PM
Besides, the Wii version of the game may actually run with Gamecube/Classic control setup AND Wii setup? Why not? Since the code will already be designed and balanced you could easily just choose in a menu setup which you want to use...or it could detect if the classic controller is plugged into the Wiimote or if a Gamecube controller is plugged in and ask you on bootup of the game.
In any event, better graphics, sound, new control system make the Wii Zelda experience the definative purchase.
It would also be wise to note that E3 will not represent the final control mechanics of the game on Wii, and the game may in fact become much tighter in control before launch. The same is true for Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Red Steel. People assume the control is locked into place how it was at E3...and there are several more months for everything to get tweaked and perfected.
Post by: Dasmos on May 17, 2006, 05:36:15 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2006, 06:17:23 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 17, 2006, 06:20:40 PM
SPOILERS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 17, 2006, 06:29:29 PM
And yes, there is a new trailer, and it's bloody awesome...(shows off for a second the town that was in screens at the end of last year...All the NPCs are unique now!)
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2006, 06:32:23 PM
I was so happy all Nintendo showed at the press conference was a dungeon that was actually kind of boring (too brown and dusty, reminded me of RE4), I didnt know they had a new trailer. Stop releasing info on this game, Nintendo! I dont want to know anything else about it!
So its a boss actually, well that explains things better, probably the guys at EGM didnt know about it when the made the article.
Post by: Mario on May 17, 2006, 06:38:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
TP GOT CANCELLED, ON THE CUBE!!! for everyone but the us I now know the version I should get atleast. link
If this is true... i'm gonna.... i'm gonna shake my fist. Out the window. If someone see's me, i'm gonna KEEP SHAKING. Though if the Wii version lets you use the GC controller then it'll be fine.
Post by: Requiem on May 18, 2006, 10:24:36 AM
If you want....I can buy you the GC version and then ship it to you.
However, it's gonna costs you
And uhhh....for future reference, don't be alarmed if the plastic is ripped off and the games a little scratch, that's how it came when I got it from the store.
No I did not play it! *runs off with your money*
(what an ackwardly worded post - first its present then future then past)
Post by: Zach on May 18, 2006, 01:55:38 PM
For the time being, I guess you will just have to deal with us Americans if you want to get the gamecube version.
Post by: vudu on May 19, 2006, 03:10:42 AM
Quote
Nintendo has decided to completely overhaul [the twilight realm] of the game. ... The twlight realm will now have a “hazy, full of color and very stylized” look.
Post by: mantidor on May 19, 2006, 05:41:16 AM
Im craving for the music on the new trailer, I got the one from the trailer of past E3 but not this recent one, and also the one from GDC last year... this game is going to have an amazing soundtrack!
Post by: Kairon on May 19, 2006, 07:56:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Twilight Princess “Twilight Realm” black and white no moreQuote
Nintendo has decided to completely overhaul [the twilight realm] of the game. ... The twlight realm will now have a “hazy, full of color and very stylized” look.
Obviously, Nintendo needed that extra year for more than just the Wii version.
I'm just pumped that they are claiming they have more dungeons than OoT. Aonouma, you better come through...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: vudu on May 19, 2006, 09:15:57 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 19, 2006, 12:07:38 PM
I think the aforementioned character is more likely a mini-boss, or possibly a world map boss (as in, not a dungeon). Maybe you have to beat him to help earn the trust of the Gorons.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 19, 2006, 01:00:49 PM
Post by: stevey on May 19, 2006, 01:19:31 PM
I dont like that they removed the black and white from the twilight realm. Maybe they will replace it with a more cel shaded look to connect TP to ww, but that would make cel shading evil and the graphic whores will win.
Post by: mantidor on May 19, 2006, 02:43:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Old? It was news to me.
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
[...]
Also the B&W is gone replaced with some surreal effect that looks a lot like the inside of the moon in Majora's Mask, which is just awesome
[...]
yup, check a few pages back.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Obviously, Nintendo needed that extra year for more than just the Wii version.
I'm just pumped that they are claiming they have more dungeons than OoT. Aonouma, you better come through...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
So are you saying that we would have to wait until the Wii's launch anyway even if there wasn't any remote functionality at all for the game? please...
but, Im leaving my anger for the other threads, this is the GC TP thread, and the game is just amazing! and thats really all there is to it.
Post by: Kairon on May 19, 2006, 09:07:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuoteQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Obviously, Nintendo needed that extra year for more than just the Wii version.
I'm just pumped that they are claiming they have more dungeons than OoT. Aonouma, you better come through...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
So are you saying that we would have to wait until the Wii's launch anyway even if there wasn't any remote functionality at all for the game? please...
but, Im leaving my anger for the other threads, this is the GC TP thread, and the game is just amazing! and thats really all there is to it.
I quote Eiji Aonouma in the latest EGM interview which you can find here.Quote
Eiji Aonuma: A few reason. One is more a physical problem- the game just wasn’t progressing the way we’d hoped it would be, and so in that sensewe were being forced to delay it. But the larger reason is that [Nintendo President Satoru] Iwatahas been saying that Zelda isn’t the type of game that can be a 100 on a scale of 1 to 100- It has to be a 120. In order to do that, we needed the extra time.
We were really fortunate to have the extra year- we have gone back and looked at everything and been able to rework it and add these new features. At this point it’s like 80 percent complete and it’s looking like it’s going to be a really great game.
There was a comment on them not being happy with wolf mechanics a while back and needing to work on that more, and now we know they're completely redoing the artstyle (and thus underlying graphical tech) for the twilight realm. Add into this the fact that they claim to have 100+ hours of gameplay, more dungeons than OoT, and want to be measured on a scale of 120 instead of just 100, and you can see that they really didn't want to release this game any sooner than it is being released. And I bet 95-100% of all these things they're working on are going to be in the GC version of the game.
I say take all the time in the world, just don't give me another half-assed incomplete travesty of a windwaker.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 20, 2006, 03:24:45 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 20, 2006, 05:43:38 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on May 24, 2006, 11:32:23 AM
I really like the game's mood, sometimes it feels watered down when you've relived the story for the 10th time, but the game still finds new opportunities to shock me. I couldn't believe how disappointed I was when I failed to protect Romani from the ghost invasion! I was also hoping for more big plots from the NPCs, I was introduced to Anju and Kafei's problem early on and so I was expecting more of them to be that complicated, but it seems like Anju and Kafei's story is the central one.
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 03:25:30 PM
Dont expect incredible plot twist and character development, the characters are very simple and I personally think that helps to relate to them better, the story is fantasy, with the moon falling and all, but the reactions of the town inhabitants are what you would expect from normal people.
Post by: stevey on May 24, 2006, 04:43:01 PM
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 05:00:39 PM
You know for being the faceless character in MM, skull kid managed to be very scary, funny or sad. It was a very emotional character, without toonshading or expressions, not that I dont like those, because they look great in TP, but that isnt all there is to make characters express their emotions.
Post by: Kairon on May 24, 2006, 08:29:39 PM
"Don't underestimate the power of body language!"
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on May 25, 2006, 05:04:38 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on May 25, 2006, 06:31:38 AM
- In Clock Town many characters have a schedule: You can follow many of them around on their daily routines if you want. Just recently I caught Kafei running from one part of town to the other on the first day. Stuff like that makes the characters seem like they have a purpose. They don't just stand around waiting for you to talk to them, stuff happens to them even if you're not there.
- In the Southern Swamp Koume gets lost, and if you don't rescue her fast enough, Kotake goes looking for her.
- A few different things happen to Cremia and Romani during the three days as well.
- In the mountains, nothing really changes unless you make it change.
- So far, the same is true for Great Bay, but I haven't studied it that closely yet.
Anyway, I didn't really expect plots filled with twists and intrigue...it's just that the game starts out really strong with this concept of NPCs that have lives of their own during the three days, but as you open new areas they revert to more traditional "stand in one spot" type characters and that was disappointing to me. It's still a great game, though.
They definitely seem to be putting a lot of effort into animation for Twighlight Princess. I appreciate it, but it's also cool to see how much designers were able to squeeze out of animation in older games. Going even further back than Majora's Mask, I remember the Final Fantasy games pulling off a lot of emotion with such simple, tiny animations. Just the pace at which a character walked could be used to tell you something about his feelings.
Post by: Requiem on May 25, 2006, 08:56:28 AM
Seeing how Eiji developed MM, I'm sure he's taking alot of what was good in that game and making it even better in TP. Simply seeing the trailers is enough to show you that.
Post by: Kenology on May 27, 2006, 06:07:53 AM
Post by: Artimus on May 30, 2006, 06:28:27 AM
http://gonintendo.com/?p=2825
Post by: couchmonkey on May 30, 2006, 10:05:45 AM
Still, I sound like I'm really dumping on Majora's Mask, but I don't mean to, I think it's a great game, on par with Ocarina of Time, in fact. I just had overly high expectations.
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 30, 2006, 12:42:38 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 30, 2006, 12:50:38 PM
When I say finish, I mean get every single mask and item.
Bunny Hood Link makes all other Links impotent.
Post by: IceCold on May 30, 2006, 01:34:16 PM
QuoteThat would be Kairon..
I heard someone call Wind Waker half-assed?
Post by: mantidor on May 30, 2006, 03:02:59 PM
TP actually looks for me like a mix of Wind Waker and Majora's Mask plus awesome little details, which makes the game like, I dont know... uber-awesome.
Post by: Kairon on May 30, 2006, 07:48:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteThat would be Kairon..
I heard someone call Wind Waker half-assed?
I proudly admit it!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 05, 2006, 05:44:10 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 05, 2006, 08:08:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I heard someone call Wind Waker half-assed? Nonsense! (Still prefers Wind Waker to Ocarina of Time by a wide margin)
By a wide-margin?
Your sir are nutz!
Post by: Kenology on June 05, 2006, 09:29:25 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 05, 2006, 11:06:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: RequiemQuote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I heard someone call Wind Waker half-assed? Nonsense! (Still prefers Wind Waker to Ocarina of Time by a wide margin)
By a wide-margin?
Your sir are nutz!
Yes, by a wide margin to me as well! It's obviously due to the more powerful hardware, but Wind Waker is far more immersive and atmospheric than Ocarina of Time...And what Wind Waker lacked in dungeons it gained in pure exploration over a vast mass of area, something that Ocarina of Time sorely lacked...
So seeing that Twilight Princess will be taking the best from both games is a very exciting thing indeed...
Post by: stevey on June 05, 2006, 11:14:52 AM
and in other news TP seem to have changing season looking at the screens shots
Post by: Kenology on June 05, 2006, 11:32:27 AM
I plan on playing through it again during the summer (I only getting around to it a second time - the longest it's ever taken me to replay a Zelda game), maybe I'll appreciate it more this time around. Though it's pansy challenge more than likely solidifies it as the "worst" Zelda in my book.
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 05, 2006, 12:47:33 PM
I love Wind Waker. The combat in Ocarina of Time is boring, limited, slow, tedious. I think Ocarina of Time brought more new elements to the table, definitely, but I think Wind Waker improved upon the formula in many ways, especially with combat.
It's not challenging, but a game doesn't have to be challenging to be enjoyable. Two of my favorite games this generation are Wind Waker and Metroid Prime 2. Lots of people complained that Wind Waker was too easy, and a lot of those same people complained that Metroid Prime 2 was too hard (whereas I pretty much breezed through it).
It's not about how hard. It's about how good.
Post by: Kenology on June 05, 2006, 02:27:14 PM
Don't get me wrong, Wind Waker was great, but challenging battles and puzzles are integral to any Zelda game. Wind Waker collapses in both areas. If people can't beat the game? Tough. That's what strategy guides are for.
The combat in OoT wasn't as exciting *after* playing Wind Waker - I agree.
I think OoT and MM had better soundtracks too.
I never even died playing Wind Waker... that's PITIFUL!!
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 05, 2006, 02:41:19 PM
I personally don't see how dying a lot in a game = good game...
Post by: nitsu niflheim on June 05, 2006, 02:49:25 PM
If I can't get through an area of a game without always dieing, I will probably put the game away and not come back to it. If I put a game away and not finish it because I found it either too difficult or frustating for no reason other than to create artificial difficulty, then I won't buy another game in the series.
Post by: mantidor on June 05, 2006, 07:03:54 PM
Post by: Requiem on June 05, 2006, 07:16:03 PM
I'm glad TP isn't tailored to you crazy bastards!
LTTP the worst you ever played?! Blasphemy!
Just face it, WW wasn't that great. It had some engaging moments, but nothing competes with OOT's ability to instantly mesmerize it's user. Remember that very first seen with Navi flying around looking for you? Yeah.....the game was amazing from beginning to end.
Post by: IceCold on June 05, 2006, 07:24:54 PM
I think OoT is so great because it's a pioneer; all the 3D games stem from it. Wind Waker had a great combat system and style, but, in the end, it took what OoT did and improved on it. With the current control scheme, you really can't ask for anything to surpass OoT in terms of innovation, and you won't be able to get the feeling that you first got when playing OoT. However, the Wii changes everything, and I'm very excited to see how a new Zelda for it turns out, whenever it is released.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 05, 2006, 07:25:58 PM
Outsource the game to Sonic Team to breath new life into it.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 05, 2006, 08:49:34 PM
Besides, link dumps Zelda in TP for some weird looking chick that rides on his back when he's a wolf.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 06, 2006, 04:30:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Just face it, WW wasn't that great. It had some engaging moments, but nothing competes with OOT's ability to instantly mesmerize it's user. Remember that very first seen with Navi flying around looking for you? Yeah.....the game was amazing from beginning to end.
Smells like a case of nostalgia disease...
Post by: mantidor on June 06, 2006, 05:14:40 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 06, 2006, 06:00:41 AM
Wind Waker is somewhere in between. It has a happy-go-lucky attitude about it for the most part, but it also has doom on a grand scale. There's a sense that the entire world is diminished. Ganon's speech is a great example. The game is also incredibly stylish, with excellent cinematic scenes and some tremendously exciting moments, including some great boss battles (though I must say that Ocarina had my favorite boss battles so far).
One of the reasons I'm looking forward to Twilight Princess so much is because it looks like it's going to be chock full of the melancholy attitude I like so much. There's a beautiful sadness in the graphics that I can't really explain. Not to mention the Twilight itself. That's nothing if not suggestive of ending and loss.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 06, 2006, 06:25:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Wind Waker had its flaws like Ocarina, A Link to the past and also Majora's Mask, thats undeniable.
Well, obviously...There isn't a single game that can be considered perfect...(Except Link's Awakening!)
Post by: MysticGohan on June 06, 2006, 07:36:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Heh, Pro666 never gives a serious post unless it has to do with Multimedia.
Besides, link dumps Zelda in TP for some weird looking chick that rides on his back when he's a wolf.
She's a Goth chick, and likes to ride lycphans around :p Especially Link
Post by: MysticGohan on June 06, 2006, 07:37:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
You guys are all NUTS!
I'm glad TP isn't tailored to you crazy bastards!
LTTP the worst you ever played?! Blasphemy!
Just face it, WW wasn't that great. It had some engaging moments, but nothing competes with OOT's ability to instantly mesmerize it's user. Remember that very first seen with Navi flying around looking for you? Yeah.....the game was amazing from beginning to end.
I know Navi, stop looking at my avatar you perv :p
Post by: Kairon on June 06, 2006, 09:34:24 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 06, 2006, 12:02:32 PM
Opinion = fact.
Wind Waker has flaws, but it's a great game. I didn't like A Link to the Past because it was dungeon after dungeon after dungeon, and I became very quickly bored of that. The game is interesting and good, but it doesn't come to par with other Zelda games. Link's Awakening established the concept of the side quest, and very well, part of the reason it's my favorite Zelda game.
Wind Waker is easy for two reasons: Nintendo didn't want it to be too challenging, so new players could adapt. That, and you've played so many other Zeldas it just seems easy. I played through ALttP all the way through within the past year (I'd played it before, but never from start to finish) and I got stuck once in the entire game, that merely being a matter of location.
Also, dying just means pointless backtracking. I hate that. That's why fairies are a brilliant idea. You can guage the difficulty, know you died, without having to go through all the crap.
I am also really looking forward to Twilight Princess. It looks to take the best of Wind Waker and Ocarina, blend them together, and throw in the best of itself as well
Post by: please let me in, please on June 06, 2006, 01:39:17 PM
Post by: please let me in, please on June 06, 2006, 01:58:12 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 06, 2006, 03:04:51 PM
Post by: please let me in, please on June 06, 2006, 03:53:36 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 06, 2006, 04:00:39 PM
Post by: please let me in, please on June 06, 2006, 04:25:54 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 06, 2006, 04:31:12 PM
Post by: Zach on June 06, 2006, 07:33:58 PM
Post by: Requiem on June 06, 2006, 08:28:37 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAHHA
No he didn't hahahha
Maybe IGN, but Gamefaqs?! hahahahaha
This dude is crAZy!
Post by: Kenology on June 07, 2006, 04:42:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I've never died in OoT, either...
I personally don't see how dying a lot in a game = good game...
I died 7 times in OoT my very first time through.
And don't miscontrue my words... I listed some criticisms about WW and the challenge was one them. I never said anything about "dying a lot in a game = good game", so I don't know where you conjured up that idea. I *never* said WW was a bad game! I said that it was a great game in one of my previous posts (guess you missed that though). Please read my entire post carefully next time.
But anyways, WW is the least impressive Zelda in my book. Hopefully TP will be challegnging and we know it's gonna be devoid of sailing. And yes, challenge is an integral part of a Zelda game's experience to me. I'm not privy to all the hand-holding that's been going on in the lastest Zelda games.
But I'll let it die (pun intended).
Bring on Twilight Princess!
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 07, 2006, 04:52:45 AM
Post by: mantidor on June 07, 2006, 06:05:47 AM
Post by: please let me in, please on June 07, 2006, 07:34:59 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 07, 2006, 07:38:53 AM
But what really makes a game challenging is the puzzles it gives you. Like finding out how to beat a boss, or how to get to the next area (Water temple anyone?). It's also about that feeling you get once you do complete a hard task --- that feeling of accomplishment. WW rarely had that. Even the last battle was easy.
Don't get me wrong, there was some awe-inspiring moments (seeing Hyrule for one), but Zelda games need to be challenging!
Post by: couchmonkey on June 07, 2006, 07:57:05 AM
The challenge level should have been higher, I think, but I don't feel it killed the game.
Post by: Requiem on June 07, 2006, 09:18:29 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 07, 2006, 09:30:35 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on June 07, 2006, 10:01:54 AM
Challenge is also personal, though. I think Hostile pointed out that he breezed through Metroid Prime 2. Challenge may not matter to him because he finds no game particularly challenging (just a though, I have no idea what Hostile finds challenging). And I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone complain that a boss was easy when I thought it was hard, or vice-versa.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 07, 2006, 02:07:58 PM
Oh, and Nintendo was "too nice" about the weak amount of damage enemies dealt you. I miss the damage from Ocarina's Iron Knuckles and Pig Ganon's swords; implementing the right level of damage is important, since realizing how badly something can hurt you can create a certain level of urgency and make the mood more intense.
<3 Prime2 Echoes
Post by: IceCold on June 07, 2006, 02:33:54 PM
QuoteI think I've agreed with you about this earlier, but you're right. Some games (or even portions of games) I'm horrible at, and I just can't seem to understand what to do, while my friends breeze past those parts. But other games (like F-Zero GX) are just perfect for me, and many have difficulty with those games.
Challenge is also personal, though. I think Hostile pointed out that he breezed through Metroid Prime 2. Challenge may not matter to him because he finds no game particularly challenging (just a though, I have no idea what Hostile finds challenging). And I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone complain that a boss was easy when I thought it was hard, or vice-versa
I don't understand why people don't like Bongo Bongo. He was awesome!
Post by: King of Twitch on June 07, 2006, 03:00:59 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 07, 2006, 03:15:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
I don't think it killed the game, however, if they simply made the damaged recieved from enemies greater, then I think it would have been better.
^ I support that post.
I think in recent Zeldas, enemies don't take as much damage as they should. Also, if you notice, fairies fill up your *entire* life energy, instead of just the first 6 hearts like in ALttP.
The Zelda series is pretty much tailor made for me -- I swear Shiggy had me in mind when he conjured it up. I love the more cerebral games, y'know, games that make you think... have puzzles to solve. WW really let me down in that area. I never got stuck once. Not to mention that, some puzzles had the potential to be quite challenging, but then they give you a hint that practically spells it out for you. I HATE THAT!
I hope TP punishes me like the Zelda sadist I am. Atleast give us a hard mode like Fire Emblem... with a nice bonus for beating it. I think that'd be a sweet compromise.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 08, 2006, 07:18:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
I think I've agreed with you about this earlier, but you're right. Some games (or even portions of games) I'm horrible at, and I just can't seem to understand what to do, while my friends breeze past those parts.
Ha ha, I've probably said it a few times. Going back to me thinking WW Ganon was hard for a second...after hardly dying at all the entire game, he forced me to use all my potions and fairies before I even got past the puppet part of the fight. Then he raped me in the sword fight. However, I know there are some tricks to that second part that make it easier. Even with lots of practice, I still have trouble with the caterpillar puppet, he's just too random and quick for me.
On the other hand, I never had a big problem with Ocarina's Ganon. The first phase took a little practice, but now I have no problems, and the pig phase is easy if you know how to avoid his attacks. I thought Bongo Bongo was cool, but he frustrated me at times. Hard to aim!
Edit: Kenology - yeah Wind Waker's hint system was a little blunt. I found the puzzles hard enough without help though. I can't remember, is it possible to skip the hints?
Post by: Kenology on June 08, 2006, 09:56:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkeyQuote
Kenology - yeah Wind Waker's hint system was a little blunt. I found the puzzles hard enough without help though. I can't remember, is it possible to skip the hints?
IIRC, some you could skip, and some you couldn't. When the crystal glows, you don't have to listen to what it has to say, but then again, you never know when it's gonna give you some general information, a subtle hint, or give you the solution to a puzzle so... *shrugs*
I want OoT: Master Quest caliber puzzles x10 w/ no hints whatsoever... :P
Post by: Requiem on June 08, 2006, 10:48:48 AM
Master Quest -- And I thought the Water Temple was hard before *sheesh*
Bongo Bongo was rip off of the Shadow Temple boss, who was undoutably a great boss. I remember dying just so I could face him again.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2006, 11:30:41 AM
Bongo Bongo IS the Shadow Temple Boss (Ocarina).
Post by: IceCold on June 08, 2006, 01:30:15 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2006, 03:08:07 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 08, 2006, 05:12:51 PM
Mainly I'm just bad at fighting games, having to memorize all those button sequences, and dual analogue shooters (which I'm not bad at, just not as good as the guys that play them often).
A challenge is nice, but it is by no means necessary for me to enjoy a game.
Most of the puzzles in Wind Waker, I figured out relatively easily. The puzzle solving wasn't the best I've seen in Zelda, but it was pretty good, and it made up for it in other areas. One puzzle had me stumped for days, though, and that was the following the sword trick right before the final boss. I thought it was awesome when I figured it out, but it took me a long damn time.
Gohdan was cool. I remember fighting him for the first time (I was at a friend's house, had brought it over to show him), and he shoots that mega blasts of fifty blazing energy balls, and I was like HOLY DAMN.
I actually died on him, once. Not the first time, but once I got stuck in the electricity and he kept knocking me back in with super ball beam, until I died. I think that was a second playthrough.
(By the way, I've fought the Wind Waker final boss more than fifteen times, probably more than any final boss other than Starfox 64, and definitely more than the two for boring old OoT final boss).
Post by: Kenology on June 08, 2006, 05:30:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
That was Gohdan, master of Voltron and the Universe.
But yeah, that was Gohdan. I remember Gohdan because he had the worst battle theme ever in a Zelda game. It's just terrible.
You can so tell Wind Waker wasn't blessed by Koji Kondo directly (aside from a few pieces).
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
(By the way, I've fought the Wind Waker final boss more than fifteen times, probably more than any final boss other than Starfox 64, and definitely more than the two for boring old OoT final boss).
You know, Eiji Aonuma was actually in charge of that final battle sequence. He said that he purposely made it easy because he wanted the player to be on an 'emotional high' and totally destroy Ganon. I think he succeeded, because OoT had the best final battle sequence in all the Zeldas in my opinion. He even had a request for Kondo for Ganon's final battle theme. You know that usually, Miyamoto let's the sound team do whatever the hell they want and doesn't request anything, but Aonuma asked for an epic, yet emotional piece. Of course, Kondo succeeded with "Last Battle" (it really comes alive with the live trumpet on the Re-arranged Album).
I know this is gettin' tired but, another criticism for WW... this time, about the story. How the hell does this puny little cocksucker get to wield the Master Sword to fight Ganondorf!? I know him and Zelda dipped on him, but c'mon! The very same Master Sword that Hero of Time Link had to be sealed away for seven years in order to wield and face Ganondorf! That's bullsh!t! They better do Ganondorf some serious justice in Twilight Princess, because I was disappointed that they let him lose to a couple kids in Wind Waker. Hero of Time link needed to become an adult, acquire the Master Sword, *AND* awaken the six sages just to be able to *CONTAIN* Ganondorf in the Sacred Realm. But those two little bastards just beat him like he wasn't sh!t! I didn't like that at all.
Post by: Dasmos on June 08, 2006, 05:50:27 PM
QuoteI agree F-Zero was a bitch especially the Story mode, but so was Viewtiful Joe. Getting all the characters and defeating all the modes was a horrendous pain in the ass, but I love hard games.
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
F-Zero GX was a pretty challenging game, to me, though I beat everything in it. But it made me curse more than any other game this generation.
Mainly I'm just bad at fighting games, having to memorize all those button sequences, and dual analogue shooters (which I'm not bad at, just not as good as the guys that play them often).
A challenge is nice, but it is by no means necessary for me to enjoy a game.
I wouldn't mind if TP wasn'y any harder than WW, games like that don't need to be hard. It's more about the adventure and the exploration than anything else. If it was too hard, I'm quite sure it would get in of preserving this.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2006, 05:55:40 PM
Gohma-Crab ATTACK ITS WEAK POINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE! in the Dragoon Roost Temple had the worst theme. Slow. Boring. Simple. Weak. Much like the boss itself!
Post by: Kenology on June 08, 2006, 06:07:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
More like a rightfully GOOD battle theme for the entire series since it was old-school and retro like Gohdan in his Tron-like digital GLORY.
Gohma-Crab ATTACK ITS WEAK POINT FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE! in the Dragoon Roost Temple had the worst theme. Slow. Boring. Simple. Weak. Much like the boss itself!
I did like the music style they used for Gohdan. You're "old-school" and "retro" adjective were right on. It sounded almost like they were trying to emulate the NES's sound chip with that theme. But the composition was horrendous. I could'a wrote a better battle theme than that!
Ironically, Gohdan's intro theme, "Gohdan appears", was great (while it lasted).
The Dragon Roost Temple theme was just "Dodongo's Cavern" from Ocarina of Time with some added sound effects and a simple beat.
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 08, 2006, 06:24:40 PM
Plus Ganon got old and fat in the interval.
Post by: IceCold on June 08, 2006, 07:00:46 PM
QuoteWhere you have to use Phantom Ganon's sword to break throught the wall? Heh, I remember trying all my items and then just messing around with the sword, and I was amazed when it actually worked..
One puzzle had me stumped for days, though, and that was the following the sword trick right before the final boss
Or are you talking about following the hilt of his sword underground?
Post by: Requiem on June 08, 2006, 10:49:28 PM
Does anybody else think that Link might die in TP?
Post by: Kenology on June 09, 2006, 03:37:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Kenology, it's obvious, really. Wind Waker Link is just much more bad-ass than Ocarina of Time Link.
Plus Ganon got old and fat in the interval.
No way, Oot Link was much better!
Hero of Time >>>>>> Hero of Winds
Though that little punk could throw down, just chalk it up to an improved battle system.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 13, 2006, 09:38:50 AM
Or because, you know, it's a game, and it doesn't need logic.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 14, 2006, 06:34:26 AM
"No way, Oot Link was much better!"
There is absolutely no contest when it comes to most badass Link...This title obviously belongs to Oracle Link...I mean, come on, he faced down 16 dungeons, 2 final bosses, Twinrova, AND Ganon...That is pure awesome...
In terms of OoT VS WW Link, WW Link had much more going against him in his game...OoT Link had always been alone, but WW Link's world was turned upside down in an instant when his sister was snatched away from him...Then he had to leave all of his friends to find her...It definitely takes a stronger mind to deal with what WW Link did...
Post by: Kenology on June 14, 2006, 09:00:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Wind Waker Link could wield the Master Sword because it wasn't at full power when he found it. Then he personally powered it up, so he got to wield it at full power too.
Or because, you know, it's a game, and it doesn't need logic.
LOL!
It's funny how you tried to rationalize it yourself *first* and then say it doesn't need logic. That's very true though. But for consistency's sake, it's not to believeable.
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 14, 2006, 09:15:25 AM
QuoteI don't know, but maybe, *maybe*, the idea was to enfasize(sp?) soul and will power (and courage...) over the rest
Originally posted by: KenologyQuote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Wind Waker Link could wield the Master Sword because it wasn't at full power when he found it. Then he personally powered it up, so he got to wield it at full power too.
Or because, you know, it's a game, and it doesn't need logic.
LOL!
It's funny how you tried to rationalize it yourself *first* and then say it doesn't need logic. That's very true though. But for consistency's sake, it's not to believeable.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 14, 2006, 09:51:16 AM
Granted, Aonuma has started bringing some more consistency into the series, but I think it will be a long time before we can expect the Zelda plot to be cohesive across all generations.
Ugh, if Link dies in Twighlight Princess, it better not be in vain. It's a game, not a movie! When I win, I want to win!
Post by: Kenology on June 14, 2006, 10:36:10 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on June 14, 2006, 10:47:58 AM
Post by: Requiem on June 14, 2006, 12:20:23 PM
Anyway, apart from the reason you gave, Aunoma did say that this would be the most melancholy of all Zeldas. He continued saying that in this game, you will feel many emotions from happiness to despair.
Plus, almost all great epics end with the hero dying (Gladiator for example).
Post by: wandering on June 14, 2006, 10:40:01 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 16, 2006, 06:55:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Plus, almost all great epics end with the hero dying (Gladiator for example).
Don't forget Leon (The Professional in the U.S.) and Man on Fire too. Two excellent movies where the hero dies.
I think it'd be frickin' awesome if Link dies in TP.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 16, 2006, 07:54:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KenologyQuote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Plus, almost all great epics end with the hero dying (Gladiator for example).
Don't forget Leon (The Professional in the U.S.) and Man on Fire too. Two excellent movies where the hero dies.
I think it'd be frickin' awesome if Link dies in TP.
*#$&*@$%^$&#%@%!#$%^$%#@!@!#$$%&*(^@%%%@&#$%#@^!^%@#
WHYYYYYYYYYYYY
I HAVEN'T SEEN MAN ON FIRE YET. YOU'VE SPOILED IT GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Leon's my all-time fav movie.
Post by: Requiem on June 17, 2006, 09:01:01 AM
I don't care if you spoiled it, it's still emotional.
Post by: Kairon on June 17, 2006, 07:00:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Leon's my all-time fav movie.
And it's not because of Natalie Portman going all loli on you right? edit: <--- sorta safe for work... <-- well, not really...rated R movie clip included?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on June 19, 2006, 12:05:00 PM
Theres no need to spoil man on fire though, it was so predictable he was going to die at the end. In fact is almost predictable Link will die too, its an overused plot twist, I'd like to see something else.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2006, 12:59:28 PM
Post by: JonLeung on June 19, 2006, 01:07:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Link runs off with teh Ganon into the sunset on Epona, firmly grasping each other's hands.
...and off a cliff, a la Thelma and Louise.
Post by: mantidor on June 19, 2006, 01:39:04 PM
ok, maybe its not that important, a few plot twists like sheik/zelda are fine but the story doesn't really need to be overly complicated, is a Zelda game after all.
Post by: mantidor on June 19, 2006, 01:39:04 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2006, 02:13:41 PM
Post by: Requiem on June 20, 2006, 10:43:56 AM
At the end of the game, Link and Gannon start their final epic battle. Soon Link finds out that the only way to defeat Gannon is to kill him while in the Twilight Realm. During the fight, Link and Gannon jump back and forth between realms. Link tries to push Gannon through to the otherside while Gannon tries to kill Link and force him into the real realm. Link decides that he must destroy the gateway that allows passage between the two realms. While in the Twilight realm, he must somehow destroy the portal while as a whole. Once the portal is closed and their is no way for you to go back to the real world, Gannon gets pissed and shows his true might. Since they are in the Twilight Realm, Gannon draws upon the massive twilight energy and becomes more fearsome than any foe the real realm could produce. Luckily, Zelda helps Link out from the real realm and gives him the ability to be normal while in the twilight realm. After he kills Gannon (somehow), he is destined to roam a plagued realm till he faces a horrible death at the hands of one of the many monsters that lurk the realm.
Badass, no?
Post by: couchmonkey on June 20, 2006, 12:45:17 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 20, 2006, 12:59:12 PM
Post by: wandering on June 20, 2006, 01:41:23 PM
Quote
Zelda dying isn't very realistic considering she would need to be alive to carry on the bloodline that the rest of Zeldas in the series spawn from...
I dunno. Zelda's last words: "Link....It's your baby...."
Quote
In terms of OoT VS WW Link, WW Link had much more going against him in his game...OoT Link had always been alone, but WW Link's world was turned upside down in an instant when his sister was snatched away from him...Then he had to leave all of his friends to find her...It definitely takes a stronger mind to deal with what WW Link did...
A bit late, but: I'm not sure I agree. WW Link may be more sympathetic, but I think what he had to do was much easier. What was he going to do, not save his sister? Not only is OOT Link more alone (doing things alone is always much harder), but he's going on a quest to fix things that don't directly involve him. I always saw OOT Link's quest as both more difficult and more noble than WW Link's.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 20, 2006, 02:00:55 PM
On top of that, Link was given the opportunity to improve the quality of life (or death) for many of the NPCs in MM.
~~~~~
Zelda's an old used-up sponge. Let her die. The series never tells you who gets to bang her, so why bother thinking about her bloodline (Tetra's grand-daddy is the Windmill Guy).
Time for a NEW franchise:
The Legend of CAPTAIN FALCON: THE AWESOME ADVENTURE
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 21, 2006, 05:15:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Time for a NEW franchise:
The Legend of CAPTAIN FALCON: THE AWESOME ADVENTURE
Professional 666 for president!
Also, there's no way Nintendo would let Link or Zelda die as part of the story. They can do melancholy without that. Heck, Majora's Mask technically had a happy ending, and it (the ending) was still melancholy.
Post by: Kenology on June 21, 2006, 11:38:04 AM
Post by: vudu on June 21, 2006, 12:04:36 PM
Link will not die at the end of TP. However, it's pretty likely that Hyrule will flood.
Post by: Kenology on June 21, 2006, 12:22:11 PM
Also, Zelda: TP = Zelda 11, right!? Or is Nintendo counting Four Swords as a legitimage entry in the series (which I don't think it should).
Post by: Requiem on June 21, 2006, 04:43:45 PM
Calling Maximus a pansy is by far the most stupid thing I heard all week.
Not only was he a general -- he was a general that was betrayed by the prince himself. Sentence to death, Maximus escapes his foes and rides a horse a great distance to return home. Finally reaching his destination he sees his wife and son dead; hanged and burned to death. Distrought by the death of his loved ones, he rides out again, only to collapse in exhaustion.
You know the rest --
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 21, 2006, 08:12:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kenology
Also, Zelda: TP = Zelda 11, right!? Or is Nintendo counting Four Swords as a legitimage entry in the series (which I don't think it should).
I consider it Zelda XII...
Legend of Zelda
Adventure of Link
Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time
Oracle of Seasons
Oracle of Ages
Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Four Swords Adventures
Minish Cap
Twilight Princess
I don't count the original Four Swords because it was multiplayer only...
Post by: IceCold on June 21, 2006, 08:46:13 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 21, 2006, 09:03:32 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 22, 2006, 06:57:42 AM
We must never speak of the CD-i travesty.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2006, 07:20:06 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 22, 2006, 09:43:17 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2006, 09:57:53 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on June 22, 2006, 10:48:37 AM
But I have to agree with Pro, Majora's Mask is probably the hardest journey of all. Link's lost in a totally new world, he's stuck as a freaky Deku thing, and he only has three days to come up with a solution. Obviously things get a little easier for him after the first three days, but what if he ran into a problem that he couldn't solve in three days? That's what I would always be worrying about. Link's Awakening is really rough too, since he has to destroy everything to save himself. That's one game where it gets harder for Link as he goes rather than the other way around.
And then there's the original game, where there's barely any sign of human life in Hyrule. That, of course, is because the game is an artifact of it's age, but taking it out of context it's a pretty desolate world, with people living in caves and no villages to speak of. Mostly it's a savage wasteland overflowing with monsters.
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 10:58:11 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2006, 11:15:35 AM
Post by: Guitar Smasher on June 22, 2006, 11:57:29 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2006, 12:24:17 PM
Post by: EasyCure on June 22, 2006, 03:43:03 PM
i recently bought four swords adventure on whim and after i beat it i remembered the tingle tuner in WW. i had the players guide laying around (free gift from NP) and read the part about using the tingle tuner in the Tower of the Gods. i can find all the peices of the letter but how do i read it? is this just another case where NP is wrong in a players guide?
Post by: Kenology on June 22, 2006, 03:52:39 PM
But ultimately, Nintendo will officially say (maybe).
I still have my FSA... no one to play with.
I hear the 1-player mode is actually good though, is that true?
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2006, 04:17:03 PM
And yes, I had a blast with Four Swords Adventures playing just by myself...
Post by: wandering on June 22, 2006, 10:48:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Maximus was a pansy. Sparticus would've wiped the floor with him.
Titus Andronicus would've kicked both their asses. And then baked them into pies.
Post by: Kenology on June 23, 2006, 09:27:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
The point is that it is directly connected to another game in the series, Minish Cap. You can't call Minish Cap a "side story"...The CDi games weren't even overseen by Nintendo, so they obviously don't count...(And from what it looks like, you haven't even played FSA, so you know nothing about what goes on in the game! I call foul!)
And yes, I had a blast with Four Swords Adventures playing just by myself...
Actually, I know all about Four Swords tieing into The Minish Cap. But I used FFT and FFX-2 to illustrate how a game can be directly linked story wise but not be a part of the main series - which is what I consider FSA to be (unless Nintendo says otherwise). Maybe when TP is released, they'll refer to it as the twelth or thirdteenth installment to the series.
But enough of that though...
I'll go on and play FSA alone, though I feel like I'm missing out because I can totally see the potential riot it would be with four players. But yeah, I'll start it as soon as I'm done with Symphonia or Fire Emblem 7 (Hector Hard Mode is no friggin' joke).
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 12, 2006, 04:03:12 PM
This one in particular interests me...I believe you can see this creature materializing in front of Wolf Link in the E3 06 trailer...
Post by: Artimus on July 12, 2006, 04:05:04 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 12, 2006, 04:37:39 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 12, 2006, 05:40:49 PM
Post by: mantidor on July 12, 2006, 07:11:42 PM
I really don't like how Im starting to not get excited about the game when something new appears, well the artwork isnt really showing anything new, but at this point I just dont care about screenshots or trailers, I just want the game.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 12, 2006, 08:09:59 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 12, 2006, 09:00:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Is it me or the quality of the artwork isnt very good? for instance the fishing girl looks a lot better in the game than she looks in the artwork... its weird.
I really don't like how Im starting to not get excited about the game when something new appears, well the artwork isnt really showing anything new, but at this point I just dont care about screenshots or trailers, I just want the game.
I think that Aonouma has finally slipped off the edge and is now just freaking insane.
Oh, but you're lucky Mantidor. You won't get spoiled at all since you're not interested in Zelda news. Me, I'm doing my darndest to stay away from TP news and videos, I want to be pure on launch day so I can wear a white ... shirt.
Oh, is this a Zelda thread? Bad Kairon! Bad, bad Kairon!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: stevey on July 13, 2006, 06:35:15 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2006, 09:32:10 AM
Post by: mantidor on July 13, 2006, 08:54:00 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 13, 2006, 10:51:46 PM
QuoteI'd say three..
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Two? Try four, considering the game is launching with Wii...
Post by: stevey on July 14, 2006, 02:59:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteI'd say three..
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Two? Try four, considering the game is launching with Wii...
Well no one said anything about release date yet but looking at nintendo last systems which almost all came out in september and the cube was to going to be release in september before it got delay which is just two short month again... [/dreaming]
Post by: couchmonkey on July 20, 2006, 05:58:23 AM
That white critter is interesting, I'm guessing it's going to be some sort of helper or "goal" character like Kaepora Gaebora or Jabu-Jabu.
Hey, update on my Majora's Mask playthrough: I'm in Ikana trying to get through the well. I'm not crazy about the well, I hate having to leave and come back and leave and come back with what the Gibdos want, but I liked the whole plot with Pamela and her dad, and the graveyard was fun too.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 20, 2006, 06:40:22 AM
LITTLE BUTTON NOSE
Post by: Kairon on July 20, 2006, 07:48:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Yeah, the fishing girl art was a little off, but that's the problem with releasing rough concept sketches. I'm actually annoyed that people have complained so much about it, I'm afraid we won't get to see this type of thing as much in the future, and I love it. I don't care if it's not production level art, it's still neat.
Are you serious? People are complaining about the AWESOME concept art being released?!?! I LOVED fishing girl! Such hips! Such strange little feet! She almost looks latina!
Who...WHO ARE YOU PHILISTINES!?!?!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2006, 11:11:41 AM
Post by: abosmia on August 02, 2006, 07:30:34 AM
Post by: vudu on August 02, 2006, 08:59:29 AM
Post by: Requiem on August 02, 2006, 09:01:27 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 02, 2006, 10:37:54 AM
dead games for dead systems
Post by: TMW on August 06, 2006, 01:56:10 PM
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on August 14, 2006, 02:14:53 PM
So. I guess I haven't been really following gaming lately. Where's my Zeruda?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 14, 2006, 02:48:06 PM
Zeruda is cancelled.
Post by: TMW on August 18, 2006, 10:31:01 AM
Post by: EasyCure on August 24, 2006, 04:24:03 PM
Bill Trinen: (when asked to describe any example of when the localization process might go differently than normal)
its taken from an article on localization of games
Quote
To be honest I don't know that we have anything that could really qualify as normal anymore. With Twilight Princess, the depth of story and its connection to past games means that not only does it have twice as much text as Wind Waker, but it includes a fair number of legacy terms that originate in past games, so consistency is a big focus there. We've also been given the opportunity to provide a lot of input on everything from play control to difficulty to character design, so over time our role has grown from simply localizing the Zelda games to almost being a branch of the development team itself.
then when asked for examples of some changes made to names, situations, etc when loclized to NA or other territory's from japan:
Quote
There isn't anything that as a rule gets changed when coming to North America. We look at everything within the context of the game and the target audience. The ESRB has, in a sense, made those decisions easier, because we're able to look at content within the context of what we expect the game's rating to be. With Twilight Princess, we expect the game to get a T rating because of the more realistic graphics, so because of that you may see scenes and situations in that game that wouldn't have fit in a game like The Wind Waker.
i know its not much, but its something to share.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 24, 2006, 05:16:35 PM
(T rating...First time ever...
)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 24, 2006, 05:36:45 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 24, 2006, 05:59:49 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on August 24, 2006, 07:51:26 PM
rant over
Post by: couchmonkey on August 25, 2006, 05:11:55 AM
1. I don't want to have to play every single game to "get" the story.
2. When you start combining plots too much, it can ruin the story of previous games. I've never played Chrono Cross, but I've heard more than one person say that it basically s**t all over the story of Chrono Trigger. I don't want that. Wind Waker actually came dangerously close, but I think it leaves things open-ended enough that I don't have to feel like everything I did in Ocarina was a waste of Time (ah ha ha, wordplay).
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 25, 2006, 04:55:15 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 25, 2006, 07:09:54 PM
2. Link swings sORD *SWISH*
3. The Ganon goes piggy HUFF HUFF
4. Golden triangles dance on screen *WORSHIP THY CHEESE*
I think that sums up the timeline.
Post by: Neodymium on August 25, 2006, 07:17:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
I don't trust GameInformer at all. (I get it because of a GameStop deal). The most recent one I have has an article about this special new rumble with big letters that read next gen rumble. The big picture to go with the article is a PS3 controller, the only controller without rumble! The picture has tiny letters at the top you can hardly read that basically says "The PS3 controller will likely not have any rumble." Any magazine with half a brain or not trying to trick their readers would not put that article and picture together.
rant over
Even worse was last month's issue: A six page feature on Xbox360 arcade, then a little blurb that talked about: "What about PS3 and Wii?"
Like four paragraphs on PS3 and one sentence on Wii.
Post by: mantidor on August 26, 2006, 08:24:14 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 26, 2006, 08:30:30 PM
There is only one man who should be directing Zelda and that man is Miyamoto. But he isn't. So Zelda... the TRUE Zelda, to me... already doesn't exist. Even though I'm trying to go on a TP media blackout to keep my experience pure, and even though Miyamoto himself has called this the best Zelda ever, and even though I applaud Nintendo for delaying this game as long as they have, and even though I'm buying BOTH the GC and Wii version of Zelda... I don't think TP will blow me away like OoT. *shrug*
Oh, yeah, Western guys should keep their hands off of Zelda too. They should only be empowered to translate Miyamoto's vision without adding or subtracting a single dea or theme or message. They ARE allowed to translate though, like Bill Trinen did with OoT with all his stuff about making the great Deku tree have that formal speaking style. Gool job 'ol chap. Otherwise hands-off!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on August 26, 2006, 09:11:05 PM
QuoteOh no! Now KN won't be able to play with his neighbour and see who finishes it first! Unless TP has been delayed so much that the guy has come of age..
(T rating...First time ever...
QuoteEver thought that Miyamoto perhaps found a more intuitive way of doing it, and now he wants to go ahead with it?
For start they went on with the ridiculous idea of using the remote for swinging the sword after explaining themselves why they had decided not to do it, its obvious they changed it because the fans asked for it
QuoteIt can't. The jump to 3D was a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and Miyamoto basically perfected it on the first try..
don't think TP will blow me away like OoT. *shrug*
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 26, 2006, 09:33:47 PM
Quote
Oh no! Now KN won't be able to play with his neighbour and see who finishes it first! Unless TP has been delayed so much that the guy has come of age..
Ahahahah holy crap I totally forgot about that =oooo
It's funny how you actually could be right about the age thing though. I mean, he's not technically old enough...but it's been a couple years, perhaps he can play now
Post by: Svevan on August 27, 2006, 02:18:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
There is only one man who should be directing Zelda and that man is Miyamoto. But he isn't. So Zelda... the TRUE Zelda, to me... already doesn't exist.
This is a rough topic for me because I believe so much in authorial intent and directorial control when it comes to the cinema, but for video games I truly believe it is something closer to group art, similar to how Pixar makes movies. But sidestepping that philosophical discussion, Aonuma has given us no reason to distrust him; I laud the last two Zelda games over OoT. Miyamoto isn't magic - it's not as though his very presence makes everything better. We're talking about talent, skill, ability, and work ethic, things that any director has to have, be he Miyamoto or Aonuma. So let's not put Aonuma down just because of hero-worship.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Oh, yeah, Western guys should keep their hands off of Zelda too. They should only be empowered to translate Miyamoto's vision without adding or subtracting a single dea or theme or message. They ARE allowed to translate though, like Bill Trinen did with OoT with all his stuff about making the great Deku tree have that formal speaking style. Gool job 'ol chap. Otherwise hands-off!
Again, I disagree. No translation is 100% accurate, ever, and poets translating from another language have for hundreds of years discarded accuracy and embraced relevance. It is good that NOA and EAD operate in such unity; division breeds assumption and miscalculation.
Post by: Kairon on August 27, 2006, 09:17:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
This is a rough topic for me because I believe so much in authorial intent and directorial control when it comes to the cinema, but for video games I truly believe it is something closer to group art, similar to how Pixar makes movies. But sidestepping that philosophical discussion, Aonuma has given us no reason to distrust him; I laud the last two Zelda games over OoT. Miyamoto isn't magic - it's not as though his very presence makes everything better. We're talking about talent, skill, ability, and work ethic, things that any director has to have, be he Miyamoto or Aonuma. So let's not put Aonuma down just because of hero-worship.
It's not hero worship. I really didn't like the job that Aonouma has done with the last two Zeldas. I considered Majora's Mask a g!mmick and Wind Waker was a huge disappointment in terms of quality. It's odd that I enjoyed OoT's dungeons so much because that's supposedly what Aonouma's contribution to that game was, but as a Director I have nothing but reasons to distrust his ability to come through in style. He'll make a good game, sure, and Zelda will get critical aplomb. But I expect that I personally will find it flawed in some manner just as I have the last two Aonouma Zeldas.
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
Again, I disagree. No translation is 100% accurate, ever, and poets translating from another language have for hundreds of years discarded accuracy and embraced relevance. It is good that NOA and EAD operate in such unity; division breeds assumption and miscalculation.
Funny, I totally agree with what you said. For example, OoT's localization didn't translate stuff literally, they interpreted the weight of the Great Deku Tree's speach and gave him an appropriate speaking pattern. I have nothing against interpretive translations and even changing the events in a storyline as long as it communicates the central ideas and themes behind the original as well as it should. For this reason, I hardly care when a movie version of a book comes out and changes events as long as the movie itself is good. With Zelda, I hardly care if they even change some of the meanings of certain lines, as long as the real ideas and themes behind the experience are preserved.
In this way, I only want translators to be empowered to bring the original vision to life in a culturally relevant way, not to censure or soften or couch the message, but to deliver it in a way that the human heart understands it the same way no matter what language is used.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 27, 2006, 09:48:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
There is only one man who should be directing Zelda and that man is Miyamoto. But he isn't. So Zelda... the TRUE Zelda, to me... already doesn't exist.
Get out...
(Fun fact: The best Zelda game wasn't directed by Miyamoto...Sup, Link's Awakening...)
Post by: Kairon on August 27, 2006, 10:36:02 AM
MY ENTIRE LIFE ISN'T A LIE LIKE I THOUGHT IT WAS!
THANK YOU BILL! YOU GAVE ME BACK MY TRUE SELF!
I AM ALIVE! I AM ALIVE! I LIVE!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 27, 2006, 12:21:51 PM
TAR THE HERETIC!
Post by: Kairon on August 27, 2006, 12:52:57 PM
Do your WORST!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 27, 2006, 02:29:00 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 27, 2006, 02:31:46 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 27, 2006, 03:17:41 PM
And if it's a crime to like the master's handiwork more than anything else, than I lock me up and throw away the key!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 27, 2006, 03:27:12 PM
YOU DESERVE IT
Post by: Kairon on August 27, 2006, 04:19:11 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on August 27, 2006, 04:19:31 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 27, 2006, 04:25:25 PM
Post by: Caliban on August 27, 2006, 04:27:00 PM
TP will kick LA ass!
Post by: IceCold on August 27, 2006, 04:35:37 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 27, 2006, 04:36:34 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 27, 2006, 04:39:58 PM
GET OUTTA MAH FORUHMZ
Post by: IceCold on August 27, 2006, 06:16:38 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on August 27, 2006, 06:29:28 PM
and Link's Awakening is great, but not the best, I love MM too much
(oh look! directed by Aonuma! TP FTW)
Post by: Kairon on August 27, 2006, 07:20:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
oh look! directed by Aonuma!
*strangled gurgle of anguish*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on August 28, 2006, 05:46:25 AM
I tend to like the 3D games better because I get a greater sense of immersion from them. My memories of the 2D games are largely made up of major events - fighting certain bosses, receiving my sword: stuff like that. In the 3D games I can remember totally incidental scenes like peering into the canyon outside the Gerudo Valley or watching to see how far away I could sail before I couldn't see the Tower of the Gods on the horizon anymore.
As for translation, I don't mind some interpretation as long as the original story and intentions are in tact, and the writing is good.
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 28, 2006, 06:17:30 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 28, 2006, 07:29:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I don't even like the first three Zeldas (well, I do, but not in the capacity that I like the later Zeldas), because Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is. It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game. A Link to the Past was just hack and slash. Link's Awakening took Zelda to a new level, and achieved a sense of beauty, and a unity between the gamer and the game, that I've yet to reexperience with Zelda.
Which is what MAJORA'S MASK took futher within the 3D experience, making it TEH BEST Zelda.
There's nothing you all can do to bring down the BUNNY HOOD. Get out, foo's.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 28, 2006, 07:46:41 AM
I do love lots of things about it though. The atmosphere, the characters, the dungeon design, they're all great.
Post by: 18 Days on August 28, 2006, 07:47:58 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 28, 2006, 09:35:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I don't even like the first three Zeldas (well, I do, but not in the capacity that I like the later Zeldas), because Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is. It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game. A Link to the Past was just hack and slash. Link's Awakening took Zelda to a new level, and achieved a sense of beauty, and a unity between the gamer and the game, that I've yet to reexperience with Zelda.
*begins to hyperventilate*
Quote
Link's Awakening established exactly what a Zelda game is.
HOW can you say that the first real Zelda is NOT one created by Miyamoto!>?!?!?!? AKA GOD HIMSELF?!?!?!?!?! (note: hyperbole is for emotional emphasis and comedic effect, don't call me on that "god" comparison... maybe...)
Quote
It was the first with worthwhile sideplots, interesting characters, a compelling story, really complex puzzles, and surprisingly great combat for a Gameboy game.
Zelda is NOT about story, characters, puzzles, OR combat!!!!!!!!!
.... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Zelda is about the emotion of discovery, the sense of adventure, that first time when Miyamoto stumbled upon a limestone cavern as a child during his family picnics! ZELDA is about recreating that real, emotional, human exploration of the world around you! Zelda is NOT about creating an epic to bowl us over, it's about creating human spaces that we fill and are absorbed into, not about things we witness, but things we DO!
Zelda is NOT Final Fantasy with swordfighting, NOT an action-rpg, it is ZELDA. It IS the magic of a whole new world just around a corner. ZELDA... is a MINIATURE JAPANESE GARDEN!!! (Click that link, it's a beautiful thesis paper comparing Miyamoto's approach to game design to Japanese gardens, a crafted adventure where there's something new around every corner and secrets are just around the bend for a user to discover. Great read.)
Quote
A Link to the Past was just hack and slash.
SACRILEGE!!!
YOU, my dear SIR... are a PHILISTINE!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on August 28, 2006, 09:54:42 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 28, 2006, 10:07:24 AM
The only true "discovery" of the Zelda series is the first cave in the first game where you acquire your MASTER WOOD. You walk right in, and gain the tool to allow you to be begin your adventure. Your only input? THE D-PAD.
[GENERALIZATION] EVERYTHING AFTERWARDS in the series comes as a reward via players' effort & thoughtfulness (combat & puzzles, not necessarily analogous).
Hell, Mario provided his own set of discoveries with the first drain pipes and subterranean levels.
'Super Mario' *JUMPS* to advance. 'Zelda' *UNLOCKS DOORS* to advance. Unlocking doors IS the thing we DO.
Why has the exploration been so critical and cherished? Cuz of what we find on the other side (combat & puzzles). What, as far as game mechanics go, gives us the satisfaction, ability and motivation to explore further? Combat & puzzles.
Exploration isn't the SINGLE DEFINITIVE element of Zelda. That's too narrow. It is part of the TRIFORCE of the GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE that Zelda is.
Combat (Power)
Puzzles (Wisdom)
Exploration; motivation and curiosity to venture (Courage)
There's locked doors, and there's keys. The doors have taken many forms and the keys have taken many forms throughout the series (whether being physical keys or combat or puzzles). The door-key relationship is symbolic of what the series asks of players. And it apparently isn't about open holes and free weapons anymore. To unlock the door, you must supply the key. Discovery is a REWARD -- "Please insert EFFORT and take your PRIZE from the bottom tray. Have a nice day and come again."
^ You have MIYAMOTO to THANK for that TREND.
Post by: ShyGuy on August 28, 2006, 10:10:55 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 28, 2006, 10:14:24 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 28, 2006, 10:22:05 AM
The sense of exporation and discovery is very present in LA, but the added depth of character interaction, story, and miniquests help create a more believable and captivating world. All of those things help create a batter world for you to explore, making those things that define a Zelda game that much more exciting. LA is Miyamoto escaping from the picnic and finding the cavern, the original Zelda was Miyamoto living in the woods his whole life and then finding a cavern IT MAKES SENSE. One is more exciting! Moving from a town into a dungeon provides a needed contrast: the deeper you go, the more dangerous and exciting it gets because you're moving further and further from familiarity.
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT
Also.
The only true "discovery" of the Zelda series is the first cave in the first game where you acquire your MASTER WOOD. You walk right in, and gain the tool to allow you to be begin your adventure. Your only input? THE D-PAD.
[GENERALIZATION] EVERYTHING AFTERWARDS in the series comes as a reward via players' effort & thoughtfulness (combat & puzzles, not necessarily analogous).
Hell, Mario provided his own set of discoveries with the first drain pipes and subterranean levels.
'Super Mario' *JUMPS* to advance. 'Zelda' *UNLOCKS DOORS* to advance. Unlocking doors IS the thing we DO.
Why has the exploration been so critical and cherished? Cuz of what we find on the other side (combat & puzzles). What, as far as game mechanics go, gives us the satisfaction, ability and motivation to explore further? Combat & puzzles.
Exploration isn't the SINGLE DEFINITIVE element of Zelda. That's too narrow. It is part of the TRIFORCE of the GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE that Zelda is.
Combat (Power)
Puzzles (Wisdom)
Exploration; motivation and curiosity to venture (Courage)
There's locked doors, and there's keys. The doors have taken many forms and the keys have taken many forms throughout the series (whether being physical keys or combat or puzzles). The door-key relationship is symbolic of what the series asks of players. And it apparently isn't about open holes and free weapons anymore. To unlock the door, you must supply the key. Discovery is a REWARD -- "Please insert EFFORT and take your PRIZE from the bottom tray. Have a nice day and come again."
^ You have MIYAMOTO to THANK for that TREND.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 28, 2006, 10:49:22 AM
Does this mean the name announcement is coming soon!>?
Post by: couchmonkey on August 28, 2006, 12:02:50 PM
Edit: clarification r us.
Post by: stevey on August 28, 2006, 12:13:25 PM
TP > LttP > LA > MM > LoZ > OoT ~ WW > MC > OoS = OoA > FS > LoZ 2
"Miyamoto!>?!?!?!? AKA GOD HIMSELF?!?!?!?!"
Yes, he a god but isn't the only one responsible in making a zelda or coming up with the ideas. Their a whole team behind the making of zelda just only miyamoto.
Post by: Caliban on August 28, 2006, 12:39:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
TP > LttP > LA > MM > LoZ > OoT ~ WW > MC > OoS = OoA > FS > LoZ 2
LoZ 2 doesn't exist, I think you meant TAoL (The Adventure of Link). How can you say FS is better than TAoL?! TAoL is one of the most exciting Zelda games, much better than that FS mulitplayer crap.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 28, 2006, 12:50:46 PM
Zelda fangirls are severely under-represented here.
Post by: Svevan on August 28, 2006, 03:44:07 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on August 28, 2006, 09:25:27 PM
Quotewait, Pro DOESN'T look like Daisy??
Originally posted by: Svevan
Funny, Pro, I always figured you looked exactly like Daisy.
Post by: TMW on August 28, 2006, 09:45:18 PM
WHUT.
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 29, 2006, 08:04:44 AM
Quote
Zelda is about the emotion of discovery, the sense of adventure, that first time when Miyamoto stumbled upon a limestone cavern as a child during his family picnics! ZELDA is about recreating that real, emotional, human exploration of the world around you! Zelda is NOT about creating an epic to bowl us over, it's about creating human spaces that we fill and are absorbed into, not about things we witness, but things we DO!
I absolutely agree. This is my primary reason for loving Zelda, and it's a feeling I pursue in every day of my life as well. It's the best and most compelling aspect of the Zelda series, and you've explained it very well.
Regardless, a feeling is only a feeling: it doesn't make a game. You can write a novel about the depth of human sadness, and explore it at every level, and still have it be a god-awful novel. The emotion is what drives Zelda, but it is a creative product, a craft, and a great many elements must contribute to this, and all of these elements will affect this notion of adventure, make it stronger of weaker. Zelda is about that feeling, sure, but it's also a game, and therefore relies on its qualities as a game to provoke this emotion in the player.
Link's Awakening affected me in this way more than any other Zelda game, and that's why it's my favorite. And yes, it has something to do with my personal experience playing the game, and it's a matter of taste and preference, but it's also just how skillfully and artfully the game was crafted.
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EVERYTHING PRO SAID
Incredibly well put. I agree wholeheartedly with his Triforce of Zelda post.
(By the way, I love Majora's Mask, and it's in my top three favorites, but it felt like the cheated out of the primary plot too much for the sideplots, or almost as if the main quest was made up of side plots)
Knowsnothing also made some good points.
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Zelda is NOT Final Fantasy with swordfighting, NOT an action-rpg, it is ZELDA. It IS the magic of a whole new world just around a corner.
That's the exact reason I'm not as into A Link to the Past. Mind you, I like that game, it just feels too action-oriented, or dungeon-oriented, and it doesn't capture for me in the same capacity the beauty of a Zelda game, like Wind Waker or Majora's Mask or OoT or Link's Awakening does.
Post by: Kairon on August 29, 2006, 10:14:20 AM
My definition of "Exploration" and "Discovery" is inclusive. That's why I can't understand what you're saying.
I'm still exploring when I have to solve a puzzle: I need to explore the world around me and my tools and abilities when I need to find a key or cross a gap or overcome some obstacle. Likewise, enemies make force me to take advantage of my environment and my abilities in a like manner. Combat is really just a dynamic form of a puzzle.
Given that I include problem solving (using a lantern/torch to light up dark areas, much as one would do in a limestone cavern) and combat (fending off bats, or keese if you will) in exploration, I can't see the weight in Pro's arguments. Problem solving IS a part of exploration, it is part and parcel to the experience. Exploration isn't simply seeing new things, but gaining knowledge of how to get there through tools and your own abilities.
I mean, when a kid catches a glimpse through some trees of a rock outcropping at a park and decides to climb to the top, needing to solve navigational puzzles, exert physical activity, and take bounding leaps in order to get to the top of some place in the distance... that's all exploration!
Ah, but throw in Final Fantasy and we're not talking about my kind of exploration anymore. When Miyamoto discovered that cave it was a completely solitary experience, it was a secret(tell nobody), it was something only he knew about at that point in time. Other people bring in other factors that completely distract from that child-like sense of ego-centric wonder and amazement.
All of a sudden, it's not about discovery and exploration, but human psychology and interaction. It's not about stretching forth your sense of self to fill and become one with the world around you, but molding yourself to fit into social mores. It becomes not about how to explore the world around you, but how to deal with other people's objectives and agendas.
My belief is that Zelda, Miyamoto's Zelda, is that sense of solitary exploration. It isn't about a storyline, or epics, or npcs or characters or background. It isn't about all these things that we sprinkle on top of our lives to give them meaning and definition. Miyamoto's Zelda, and many of Miyamoto's games, are about singular experiences that are almost child-like, almost rawly emotional in their sense of purity, baseness, innocence, and ability to appeal to everyone.
In this sense, Miyamoto's works almost seem to have the emotional core that Miyazaki's works do.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 29, 2006, 02:32:28 PM
One thing I love about the Zelda games, including Link's Awakening, is that Link doesn't get any recognition for what he does. In many instances he saves the world (in Link's Awakening, his entire adventure leads to him simply waking something up), and either no one recognizes it or he ends up alone in the end (in OoT, he restores the world to a time before it went wrong, in MM he saves everything but ends up alone in his home world).
This doesn't really have much to do with anything. It's just that, as a child, if I had an adventure by myself no one could appreciate it but me, and no one could ever understand what I'd been through. It would seem insignificant to them.
I dunno. Random musing. It's an interesting dimension to the complex depth of emotions in Zelda, and in some capacity I can relate to it.
Post by: Kairon on August 29, 2006, 03:00:08 PM
Hmm... I've got a mindset that will be very receptive for this new Wii Zelda that will be unlike the ones before it!
But as for recognition... My totally amatuer opinion on that whole recognition thing from the standpoint of someone who's not AT ALL a psychology major is...umm...
I think that as a child, finding and developing your own identity is a big thing. This is why you have imaginary friends that only YOU can understand, why you have hiding places which you as a child can fill and be safe/powerful in: as a child you're creating or finding your own domains in which to explore and develop your abilities.
I don't think that young, innocent children care about recognition. That's an adult thing, a complex interpersonal society thing. That's not bad, but as a child you just DO things, fun comes naturally to you. It's much more intuitive for young'uns to do what they feel is fun than to have other's reactions in mind as an end result.
Besides, would Link be so much of a hero if he did things for the recognition? Link's an innocent, he just does things because he intuitively knows right from wrong. And I think that this innocence is essential to recreating the emotions that Miyamoto made Zelda to inspire in us. As an epic, Zelda's simplicity helps to speak to that part in us which is still the child that wants to run around the house, crawl under beds, climb dressers and hide under the blankets, all because we just want to have fun and nothing else.
*note: not that little kids aren't socially manipulative. Studies show that even babies are aware of how to manipulate others. But even in this I believe they can be classified as innocents, because they are still exploring the world and their abilities to affect it, and they have no concept of the consequences of their actions except for themselves. Odd that ego-centricism is a definition of innocence though.*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on August 30, 2006, 04:15:39 PM
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Originally posted by: Svevan
This is a rough topic for me because I believe so much in authorial intent and directorial control when it comes to the cinema, but for video games I truly believe it is something closer to group art, similar to how Pixar makes movies.
I tend to think most movies are group art. Example: In Silence of the Lambs, the director wanted Hannibal Lector, in his first appearence on-screen, to be wearing baggy clothing, leaning against the side of the cell, and looking away from Clarice. Anthony Hopkins had a different idea.
Anway. Zelda. We're all in agreement that OOT is not only the best Zelda game, but the best videogame ever created, right? Good.
Post by: Svevan on August 30, 2006, 04:46:42 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 30, 2006, 04:49:19 PM
MFUEHIKNLKMDWANDRIHWNU&RGGGRHGDW{KFDWjGJRkggruryugugrugurugrugrugrugurgrlglgjrllrulguglerugrlgur
...opinion.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 30, 2006, 05:30:18 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on August 30, 2006, 06:00:48 PM
Post by: IceCold on August 30, 2006, 08:23:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 30, 2006, 08:37:03 PM
ET!!!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Svevan on August 30, 2006, 09:16:00 PM
I prefer Banjo Kazooie to OoT, but not MM or WW. Banjo-Tooie also holds a soft spot, but I never owned it - I borrowed Jonny's copy for an extended period and got a solid halfway through it before I realized that to complete the game I would have to continue playing it for the rest of my life. So I stopped, gave it back to him, some 6 years later I realized I LOVE ALL BANJO GAMES and bought it.
The similarity between Banjo and Zelda (back on topic) is that both take place in "complete" worlds that visually feel alive. Zelda can be even more powerful than a Banjo game because of its story and emotional depth, but since a Zelda game must fulfill the typical architecture for a town or dungeon, the individual areas do not spring to life as the levels and overworld in the Banjo games do. Click Clock Wood is a masterpiece of level design - it feels alive and the passing of the seasons helps reinforce emotionally our connection with the world. By the time we transform into a bee and fly around the massive trunk, we find ourselves familiar with the level and one with it. (I felt similarly about the sea in Wind Waker.) However, in Zelda games, we must work against a dungeon to "solve" it. Banjo (read: platform) games are based on harmony while Zelda (adventure) games are based on dissonance.
I suppose this is why I never liked dungeons in a Zelda game: they take you away from the natural world created by the game. A dungeon is a highly artificial gameplay device - the levels in Banjo games do not feel separate from the overworld since they do not differ in form. In a visual and emotional sense, there is no distinction between Clanker's Cavern and Grunty's Lair. In contrast, the difference between Hyrule Field and the Fire Temple is great.
Post by: Kairon on August 30, 2006, 09:26:43 PM
That said, there are many dungeons in LtP that I consider thematically integrated, such as the Dark World's Sewers and Blind's Lair. And of course, this is another reason why I like the first Zelda a lot too: it's the most uncomplciated of the Zeldas, has the most childlike naivete, and it maintains that fantasy feel throughout well.
As for dissonance, you make a beautiful observation and I must applaud you for it. Thank you! You're so right, platformers are games where your tools are the environment. Action (not adventure???) games are where you use your own tools to change the environment to suit your needs. It's like platformers are gliders, working with the natural thermals and air flows, whereas action titles are more like jet planes, sliceing through and pushing through the air on their own power.
Hmm... so does this make you a big platformer gamer Svevan?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on August 30, 2006, 10:33:05 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 31, 2006, 07:21:08 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 31, 2006, 07:35:46 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 31, 2006, 07:44:28 AM
Imagine how immersive it would be to throw fireballs with throwing motions in Super Mario 256.
I always found it amusing how Mario hates children in Super Mario World. Not only does Mario murder the Koopa Kids by dunking them into their own LAVA PIT, Mario DESTROYS THEIR EFFING CASTLE at the end of his episode of murder!
I don't think children should be allowed to view this material, they might realize what "freedom fighting" really is about! Such terrorism!
"Adults Only" definitely applies here.
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 31, 2006, 08:45:25 AM
I love dungeons, even though I'm aware of their presence as a gameplay device. They've always been in Zelda, it'd feel weird to be without them now. It's how the game is paced.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 31, 2006, 09:58:42 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 31, 2006, 10:42:01 AM
Join me on the Miyamoto crusade!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Svevan on August 31, 2006, 03:25:07 PM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
Hmm... so does this make you a big platformer gamer Svevan?
No, my preferred game uses a narrative to guide the player through different locales; these locales must be 100% convincing at all times. I know that what I'm talking about here is emotional or sensory, and therefore hard to verify. Nonetheless, if I perceive that an area in a game continues to live and breathe when I'm away, then it succeeds. Half of the dungeons in a Zelda game fail this test, mostly because they are so disconnected from their overworld which does feel alive. When I consider Treasure Trove Cove from Banjo, it passes the test, even though you warp to it from the overworld.
Let's consider Super Mario 64, which has several great areas. However, most of them are abstract: they float in space and seem to be made out of Legos. My favorite level in Super Mario 64 was that underground city where you had to raise and lower the water level. Jolly Roger Bay and Hazy Maze Cave I thought were also successful, mostly because you couldn't see the sky or the infinite void below. Comparatively, a floating level like Whomp's Fortress was bland. Other games that I felt had succesful environments were Diddy Kong Racing, Mega Man Legends, Legend of Mana, Jet Grind Radio, and the Paper Mario titles.
So no, not platform games, at least not every time.
Post by: ShyGuy on August 31, 2006, 04:57:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 31, 2006, 06:05:24 PM
Just wondering, very interesting reading your philosophies on game environments.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on August 31, 2006, 08:18:37 PM
Personally, the game world is the most important part of the game to me. I like to say that, when writing a book, you create a story, but when making a game, you create a world. But I think I have slightly different priorities than you do. OOT's game world speaks to me more than Banjo Kazooie (as much as I love Banjo Kazzoie) because, I think, Hyrule field feels more like a real place than Gruntilda's Wild N' Whacky Fun Zone.
...I do agree that Zelda's dungeons are a little artificial, but can accept them as a necessary abstraction. Like the loving couple who eternally spins in place in town, I can accept them even if they don't make literal sense.
On a side note, the thing I like about OOT's dungeons is that I actually don't enjoy playing through them that much. As kid, I dreaded going into a dungeon, just like Link would. And, conversely, I loved riding on a horse and going fishing, just like Link would. This is in contrast to most games, where the fun part is the stuff that would be horrible in real life.
Post by: Svevan on August 31, 2006, 09:51:52 PM
I think it's interesting, Wandering, that you agree about this concept. Perhaps more people feel the same? There must be some scholarship or documentation on the perception of environments in games - to me it is more important than any "fun" I have while playing. I enjoy a game that shows me a whole new world (don't you dare close your eyes) made up of its own rules, consistent with itself. Zelda has always had a superior universe to inhabit and the overworlds, particularly MM and WW, prove this. I don't get much satisfaction from solving puzzles or "beating" something, so sometimes a Metroid game can drag for me if I'm not seeing/getting something new. BFD had an excellent universe and it felt totally alive until the last few areas. Oddly, swimming through the poo was one of those "wow" moments. I also think Beetle Adventure Racing and Shadow Man both had excellent game-world focus. Other examples?
My greatest hope is that those videos and screens of TP that show Hyrule field as a crowded, busy place are accurate. I want to see the overworld from LttP made 3-D, not some wide open boring field.
Post by: Hostile Creation on August 31, 2006, 10:15:15 PM
Or whatever.
But I really do. Being in a dungeon in a Zelda game feels very different from being on the overworld, but I love both feelings.
Post by: IceCold on August 31, 2006, 10:56:48 PM
QuoteI'll have to stop you right there.. It's a game.. Analysing these things is great and all, but at the end of the day, to me at least, they are not what make games great. They add to the style, the presentation, the artistic side of things. They enhance the experience, sometimes to a great extent, and are definitely noteworthy. But the gameplay is always paramount. It's obvious that you love movies, and are trying to apply some of your philosophies about them to games. However, having fun is the reason I play games, and I don't want that to change. And I believe that if you don't play games for fun, then they are not for you. If you value the "perception of environments" more than the joy you get by playing the game, you may be exploring a desert with few oases. It does make it all the more special when a game is rich in these features (like Zelda), but they should not be your primary concern.
Perhaps more people feel the same? There must be some scholarship or documentation on the perception of environments in games - to me it is more important than any "fun" I have while playing.
I just don't want games to conform to Kojima's cinematic view. I don't want cutscene upon cutscene. I don't want style over substance. I want games that I enjoy, games that I have fun with, regardless of the presentation. Which is exactly why I am in harmony with Nintendo's view of what games should be.
Post by: Smoke39 on August 31, 2006, 11:31:18 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 01, 2006, 08:05:44 AM
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I'll have to stop you right there.. It's a game.. Analysing these things is great and all, but at the end of the day, to me at least, they are not what make games great. They add to the style, the presentation, the artistic side of things. They enhance the experience, sometimes to a great extent, and are definitely noteworthy. But the gameplay is always paramount.
I agree entirely with IceCold about this.
And trust me, these are factors I'm aware of. Not only do I watch a lot of films, I'm studying film for my bachelors and intend to make a career in it. But if you apply the qualities of another medium to gaming, you're only holding back its potential. For the longest time people could only make films that resembled photography that moved. Now its taken on another dimension entirely, because film is not photography, even if there are similarities. Gaming is a visual, moving medium, but it's very different from film (or any other medium for that matter). Other mediums can compliment it in some way, but if you try to put the limitations of one medium into gaming, you're only going to limit it.
Now, I love an immersive game world. But the central core of gaming is fun, it's the reason it started and its the primary mechanism behind the concept. I'm of the opinion that artistry in the gameplay is the most important thing.
Post by: Kairon on September 01, 2006, 08:20:14 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
P.S. And Earthbound?
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 01, 2006, 08:33:09 AM
Quoteexactly
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I actually love the feeling of disconnection that the dungeons have from the overworld. They're locales all to their own, from a different time, buried and lost from the world. They're in total isolation, and you're the only person brave enough to unlock them and return to their depths.
and I completely agree with IceCold ^^
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 01, 2006, 08:39:06 AM
The game world doens't have to be huge. It can even be seperated into stages, missions, discs, WHATEVER. I don't care. As long as it appears the developers put love into the game, it's usually great to play in.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 01, 2006, 10:47:46 AM
Post by: Kairon on September 01, 2006, 11:15:44 AM
But how about World of WarCraft? That MMORPG world is large, lifely, fully integrated, and has been crafted by hand with loving care by Blizzard's artists (as much as any MMORPG CAN be hand-crafted). I quit WoW and consider it flawed somewhat, but that world would fit Evan's statutes for a great world experience, yes?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
P.S. And so would Earthbound!!!
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 01, 2006, 11:38:09 AM
This is brilliant. BRAVO. I always felt the same about Zelda. The original Dungeons of the first game, and OoT made me nervous, excited, and frightened. I knew I was entering something challenging, will face new enemies, puzzles and surprises, and I dreaded it as much as I loved it.
It was brilliant design.
Post by: wandering on September 01, 2006, 11:56:15 AM
Anyway. Don't know what some of you are going on about. Applying the qualities of film to gaming? How often does film focus on an imaginary world rather than the characters or action? And who, apart from icecold, said anything about shoehorning in cinematic cutscene after cutscene?
Gameplay, of course, is extremely important, but the game world is also important. When Miyamoto is designing a game, he starts with blocks floating in mid-air, or his garden. If you think gameplay is the only thing that's important, fine. Personally, I think Super Mario Bros. would lose some of it's charm if it looked like this:
Post by: Kairon on September 01, 2006, 03:19:41 PM
According to Miyamoto-ists, graphics and sound and all those other elements should only exist to celebrate the gameplay, and should not overstep their bounds to try to become more important than gameplay. To a Miyamoto-ist like myself, graphics and art and stuff are important, but only insofar as they make the gameplay itself that much mroe awesome.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on September 01, 2006, 03:45:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Dyack being the director IS likely, and all the hush-hush with SK since E3 only strengthens that possibility...With Aonuma and Miyamoto over their shoulder, SK could get some well-deserved credit and respect...
mmm....I'm not so sure I agree.
Post by: mantidor on September 01, 2006, 04:49:18 PM
now don't go and dig my old posts, you stalker.
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 01, 2006, 04:56:06 PM
Haha, yeah, I feel the same way a lot of the time. Not for every dungeon, necessarily (I tend to feel comfortable in early dungeons, and brighter dungeons like the Wind Temple), but I really love that feeling of dread when it comes.
I also feel that everything else should compliment the gameplay. Everything is a factor, of course. Sound and music is often an important aspect of film, but it's not at the core of filmmaking. The environment, graphics, and all that are important, but gameplay is at the highest mark on the heirarchy.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 01, 2006, 05:13:27 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 01, 2006, 05:16:01 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 01, 2006, 06:01:48 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on September 01, 2006, 11:12:36 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on September 01, 2006, 11:15:33 PM
45 minutes! teh huge!
Post by: mantidor on September 01, 2006, 11:41:02 PM
now if there is a dungeon or town every riding minute I'll be happy.
Im being generous actually, a minute is a long time and can get boring easily, better if its close to 30 seconds (or less!) of distance between locations, of course thats whishful thinking, thats close to 100 locations, simply impossible.
Post by: Svevan on September 02, 2006, 10:59:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteI'll have to stop you right there.. It's a game.. Analysing these things is great and all, but at the end of the day, to me at least, they are not what make games great. They add to the style, the presentation, the artistic side of things. They enhance the experience, sometimes to a great extent, and are definitely noteworthy. But the gameplay is always paramount. ... having fun is the reason I play games, and I don't want that to change. And I believe that if you don't play games for fun, then they are not for you.
Perhaps more people feel the same? There must be some scholarship or documentation on the perception of environments in games - to me it is more important than any "fun" I have while playing.
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
But if you apply the qualities of another medium to gaming, you're only holding back its potential.
...
Gaming is a visual, moving medium, but it's very different from film (or any other medium for that matter). Other mediums can compliment it in some way, but if you try to put the limitations of one medium into gaming, you're only going to limit it.
But what is fun?
Here's the American Heritage Dictionary's take:
fun n.
1. A source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure.
2. Enjoyment; amusement: have fun at the beach.
3. Playful, often noisy, activity.
Here's another quote from IceCold:
Quote
If you value the "perception of environments" more than the joy you get by playing the game, you may be exploring a desert with few oases. It does make it all the more special when a game is rich in these features (like Zelda), but they should not be your primary concern.
Who's to say where I get my "joy" in playing the game? Why did Nintendo use a different graphical style for Wind Waker, and why was everyone up in arms about it? These things matter and they affect the "fun," if we are going to separate "fun" from every aspect of the game except the running and jumping.
Fun's an awful word. I can have fun doing something, but can I really isolate which part of it was fun and which was inspiring, tiring, emotional, relational, etc? I believe there is a narrow definition of fun and a broad one, and if we get straight which we're using I think you'll see we agree. The broad definition of fun is American Heritage's first one: "a source of enjoyment, amusement, or pleasure." The narrow meaning is either number 2 or 3. In my post, when I made the critical comment that a consistent game-world meant more to me than "fun," I was referring to the narrow definition. When playing a game, I see the gameplay "fun" as the basic physicality of Pong, Tetris, or Mario. In Banjo-Kazooie, this is flying or racing or running and jumping. This is only a fraction of the modern video game. The enjoyment of Banjo-Kazooie comes from a variety of things: collection and progression, graphical beauty, storyline, and humor. Each of these individual parts is not fun - the only one that comes close is collecting things and progressing through the game, which can be fun but it can also be tiresome; in Banjo-Tooie and DK64 it's exhausting and tedious, but these games still have value.
I refer to the actual "value" of a game as how much I "enjoyed" it, and this is I believe the broad definition of "fun." This means that if a game was tiresome in some way I can still consider it a good experience and walk away with a positive view of it. (Case in Point: Killer 7, a very un-fun game.) Some posters have commented that they view the dungeons of Zelda to be frightening, difficult, and perhaps even painful - how interesting that all who have said this considered it a positive quality! They had a reason to go into that dungeon, and I don't think it was "fun" in the narrow sense, but rather their enjoyment of the game-world, story, progression, etc. This amounts to pleasure in my mind, not fun. American Heritage doesn't see it the way I do, but I have always thought that fun was a specific type of pleasure, not just pleasure in general.
So I believe the game-world gives me my "joy" as much as the running and jumping does. Some people play only RPGs and how much "fun" do you think they're actually having? Final Fantasy VIII had a card game to break up all the random battles, cinematics, heavy-handed story telling, and stat-monitoring - without it, I'd dare say there wasn't an ounce of fun in the whole game, at least in the narrow sense. Personally, I have never played RPGs for their battles, though I know some people do.
Finally, an aside: you're right, I love movies, but I have no idea how they've entered into this discussion at all. My view of the game-world is based entirely on immersion, something a game can do more than a movie when the world is compelling enough. I do view games and movies in a similar way though: I don't separate the individual parts out and say that good "this" plus good "that" plus good "the other" equals good game. To me there must be a unifying whole: good graphics and a good environment without good gameplay can be frivolous, but it can also be enjoyable. In the same way, solid core gameplay with no active narrative or game-world to inhabit is "fun" in the Pong-Tetris sense, and therefore valuable. There's a reason why we don't average out the scores on PGC, and very few other sites do either: even if it were possible to correctly ascertain the actual numerical value of the graphics, control, and gameplay in a game, the mathematical average of them all would never be a correct assessment of the game's quality. A game must be more than the sum of its parts, otherwise we wouldn't value Metal Gear Solid, Doshin the Giant, or Chibi Robo.
P.S. Hostile, where are you getting your BA?
Post by: Kairon on September 03, 2006, 12:11:52 AM
And of course, as a Miyamoto-ist... gameplay > everything.
In that sense, I am is quite content with supporting stylistic achievements like Killer 7 (or Cubivore) or technical accomplishments like Resident Evil 4 (or Conker's Bad Fur Day) because I can find ways to suggest that the visuals in these games helped develop an atmosphere conducive to their particular brand of gameplay.
It's much harder to make that same claim when looking at something like Baiten Kaitos.
Just like you refer to "value" as a broader more inclusive definition of "fun," I think that gameplay should be a more inclusive than just what goes on in your hands, it should also include what goes on in your head. Therefore, in the twisted logic of this Miyamoto fanatic, graphics are not more important than gameplay, graphics aren't even as important as gameplay. Graphics, for graphic's sake, aren't of ANY importance to videogames AT ALL!
To this fanboi, graphics are important only insofar as they serva as elements and facets of (this broader definiton of) gameplay.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 03, 2006, 11:28:16 AM
On the other hand, I did not specifically denote that gameplay is the necessary source of fun. I merely pointed out that it's the central characteristic of game making. It's what separates games from any other medium. It doesn't need to be what provides fun in the game (I know the word game being in it implies such, but that's merely a reflection of its origins). Certainly, that will often be the case, and it is most often the case with me (and people like Bill, Kairon, Mario, etc), but some games don't rely strictly on gameplay to stimulate enjoyment.
I don't see how anyone could find the gameplay in Final Fantasy fun. But the story, the characters, and the scale of the game is what drives the player's enjoyment.
Killer 7 relies on its incredible story and style, and on the gameplay to a lesser extent.
MGS has a lot of gameplay, but it's also very "cinematic" (I hate using this term, because it's a BS term, because "cinematic" games don't reflect cinema just because they're more story driven. They seldom ever reflect the principles of cinematography, editing, and such things). Enjoyment again is derived from story.
Katamari Damacy is partially just about how quirky and off-the-wall it is.
So a game doesn't necessarily need to rely on gameplay to succeed, artistically or otherwise. I'll always be of the opinion (based on personal preference and artistic standpoint) that the games with a primary focus on finely crafted gameplay will always be the best (a philosophy Nintendo generally seems to hold as well, which is part of the reason I like them so much), but that's just personal opinion, and isn't universal.
However, all of those games do have gameplay, and must to be considered games. (Likewise, a recording of a theatrical performance is not a film, because it doesn't make effective use of camerawork and editing.) Gameplay is at the core of The Game, but it isn't necessarily the focus on every particular game.
See what I mean?
I'm actually double majoring in communications (film) and English, and I'm at a small liberal arts college, Centenary College. If I go to graduate school, which is likely, I'll go someplace more directly oriented on film.
Post by: Svevan on September 03, 2006, 01:15:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Our reactions to, and interactions with, the visuals of a game are just part of what constitutes the larger sense of gameplay.
I completely agree.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 05, 2006, 06:00:44 AM
I agree on the 45 minutes thing - that's not really a good thing unless the game is packed with tons of locations. Although, I won't mind if the game has a really good warp system that opens up early on.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 05, 2006, 12:49:01 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 05, 2006, 12:57:11 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 05, 2006, 02:11:49 PM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on September 06, 2006, 12:31:25 AM
1) 45 minutes is an exaggeration. 25-30 minutes sounds a lot more reasonable.
2) That time includes navigation through more gameplay centered areas (like Zora River for example) and through and around many different places along the "45 minute" trek.
That said, a gratuitouslly large Hyrule doesn't sound too bad to me.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 06, 2006, 06:01:04 AM
Slowdown occurs in the GameCube version, I think I've heard that it's identical to the original in this respect. Personally the slowdown hasn't bothered me too much, it doesn't seem to happen much in the dungeons, mostly in areas where you have a good view of a lot of objects like on the tree-filled part of the field or in certain parts of Clock Town.
Post by: EasyCure on September 06, 2006, 03:51:18 PM
i've read there are different versions of Oot for 64 (from reading up on glitches and things that can be done with action replay codes) so i was wondering if those two things i mentioned are from one of the later versions of the 64 game that were put onto the gc disc, or is it something changed specifically for the gc disc?
Post by: IceCold on September 06, 2006, 04:20:10 PM
QuoteYeah, Nintendo changed that in the later 64 cartridges of OoT, so only the first batch has it. They also made some other adjustments, including changing the Fire Temple chanting music, and removing the crescent and star signs on some blocks..
the gc version have green blood, but my 64 version is red.
Post by: mantidor on September 06, 2006, 06:39:42 PM
Post by: Kenology on September 09, 2006, 06:18:34 AM
1). 45 real-time minutes from one end of the overworld to the other sounds delicious to me. I doubt it'd get boring (like Wind Waker's sailing), but I'm sure you'll be able to warp eventually anyways. Plus, the overworld is gonna be bursting at the seams with things to do, I'm sure.
2). The N64 version of Majora's Mask played perfectly... the Gamecube version, which ran in emulation, was buggy as all hell.
3). The choir on the "Fire Temple" theme in the first batch of OoT carts was said to be a true-blue sampled Islamic prayer. The entire piece was brilliant. But Nintendo yanked it out and tried to replicate it with a synth choir and it sounded terrible. I shook my head nonstop while playing through the Fire Temple in Master Quest.
Post by: jasonditz on September 09, 2006, 06:30:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
BTW, IGN Games of Fall 2006 says, "Twilight Princess will not only be bigger - a horse ride from one side of Hyrule to the next is rumored to take 45 real minutes"
45 minutes! teh huge!
What if your horse is just really slow?
Post by: mantidor on September 09, 2006, 06:48:06 AM
Post by: Kenology on September 09, 2006, 09:40:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I don't see how is possible to get bored with long sailing but not bored with long horse riding. Seriously, is the same thing.
I do. Wind Waker's ocean was a lot less interactive than OoT's or, even moreso, MM's land-based overworld. For one, there isn't much you can do on the sea besides dig for treasure in predetermined spots or do battle with your bombs used as cannonballs. Otherwise, there was just a vast sea, with nothing interesting or notable going on unless you discovered land or, at least, fought a Big Octo.
Having the overworld on land opens up a lot of possibilites... there are just so many things to investigage. Take OoT or MM, a huge boulder always piques one's curiousity; same thing with discovering a hole in the ground, gossip stones (when you have the Mask of Truth), a cave, a musical staff on the side of a stone wall, a change in terrain (which doesn't happen on the ocean) from forests to snow covered mountains, etc., puzzles being placed on the overworld, better battles scenes (because fighting on foot or horseback is a lot better than WW's boat combat), etc., etc... So many things warranted your attention. And like any true Zelda fan, as soon as you see something with potential, you're right on it.
Point is, TP's overworld has the potential to be much more engaging than WW's seamingly endless sailing (and having to change the wind direction whenever you wanna go). As long as it isn't sparse and filled with nothingness (like Wind Waker), you probably won't be riding horseback for more than 2 minutes before you find something worthwhile to investigate.
Post by: mantidor on September 09, 2006, 11:38:30 AM
And this is something that makes me think, because even though the game was rushed, I wouldn't say the ocean was "filled with nothingness" as you say, it had a lot of treasures, locations and secrets, and still it seemed a barren world, mainly because of its huge size, so its not crazy to think TP might be the same when they are promising the overworld is even larger.
Its not the setting what matters, is the dedication put into it, be it ocean or land. Both locations have the same potential. For now we can only speculate, but I have the hunch that even if TP overworld is as scarce in content as the WW one, people would love one while still hate the other because the gaming community really is that lame.
Post by: Kairon on September 09, 2006, 01:06:24 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kenology on September 09, 2006, 01:12:21 PM
MORE LAND!
Post by: Kairon on September 09, 2006, 01:16:22 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 09, 2006, 03:29:43 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 09, 2006, 05:06:07 PM
Whereas Wind Waker will woo western weaselly wipes!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Svevan on September 10, 2006, 10:48:57 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 11, 2006, 01:54:07 AM
Post by: Kenology on September 11, 2006, 06:36:46 AM
I don't see why you guys think this thread should be locked. It's totally relevant. Plus, TP hasn't even been released yet, so another thread just like this one is gonna pop up again anyways.
Post by: EasyCure on September 11, 2006, 08:00:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteYeah, Nintendo changed that in the later 64 cartridges of OoT, so only the first batch has it. They also made some other adjustments, including changing the Fire Temple chanting music, and removing the crescent and star signs on some blocks..
the gc version have green blood, but my 64 version is red.
ok thanks for clearing that up. i wasnt sure if it was later versions of the carts or just the the games on cds. also forgot about the muslim chanting in the fire temple and crescent/star signs. the original content was much better IMO. still confused as to why the graphics on the fire from Twinrovas attack was changed.
Post by: Kenology on September 11, 2006, 11:18:04 AM
Post by: EasyCure on September 12, 2006, 07:15:05 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on September 16, 2006, 03:35:12 PM
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 04:21:31 PM
Post by: jasonditz on September 16, 2006, 08:32:49 PM
I suspect that were it not for all those people who shelled out money for pre-orders two years ago when the game was "close to finished" they would have done so already.
Post by: mantidor on September 16, 2006, 08:40:10 PM
Post by: jasonditz on September 16, 2006, 08:54:33 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 16, 2006, 10:22:48 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on September 16, 2006, 11:08:50 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on September 17, 2006, 05:22:39 AM
Post by: jasonditz on September 17, 2006, 07:26:33 AM
Post by: Artimus on September 17, 2006, 07:43:18 AM
Post by: wandering on September 17, 2006, 08:45:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
That's why I made a Zelda thread in the Wii forums. This is no longer a GameCube game, it just so happens that Nintendo's nice enough to port it over to GC for you whiners.
But, if we switched to another thread, I couldn't dredge up embarrasing old quotes anymore. This thread is like a time-capsule of awesomeness that shouldn't be put to rest even after the game comes out.
Post by: mantidor on September 17, 2006, 11:10:48 AM
Post by: wandering on October 20, 2006, 03:21:18 PM
So. How about that Twilight Princess? I hear it could be pretty good.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 20, 2006, 03:31:32 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 20, 2006, 05:54:39 PM
LAY THIS THREAD TO REST
AN NO STUPID "WIIIISE FWUM YO GWAAVE" ALTURD BEAST RESSURECTING SPELLS
Post by: wandering on October 20, 2006, 06:43:41 PM
Also, real Zelda fans don't like the fake Capcom games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 20, 2006, 07:03:35 PM
Post by: mantidor on October 20, 2006, 07:54:42 PM
, its kind of disturbing to look at my own change of attitude during these years disturbing and hilarious to be honest
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 20, 2006, 08:00:09 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on October 21, 2006, 12:04:52 PM
Quotewhining is contagious?
Originally posted by: Professional 666
You've been here so long that you've picked up bad habits from other posters.
Post by: mantidor on December 22, 2006, 07:30:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
REAL ZELDA FANS WILL BUY BOTH VERSIONS
LAY THIS THREAD TO REST
AN NO STUPID "WIIIISE FWUM YO GWAAVE" ALTURD BEAST RESSURECTING SPELLS
You can't stop me, here I come! resurrect! :P bah, it was only a page behind anyway
This is where we have been discussing TP for over 2 years and I felt its the proper place, don't kill me.
So I'm loving the game a lot in every aspect so I'll just mention the bits that annoyed me, which is only one actually, what did they do to Link's voice
? ok, theres another onethe way you get the official tunic was... lacking, I guess I really loved how it was acquired in the WW
I've only finish the first dungeon and I can't wait to come back to my home to continue.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 22, 2006, 09:25:56 AM
Rauru probably slipped on Link's white tights while he was asleep in the Sacred Realm for 7 years. Sick old man.
Post by: mantidor on December 23, 2006, 08:14:45 AM
well, the way you get the zora armor made up the lacking of the one before, this game is great! I hardly understand any of the criticisms it has, but Im only in the third dungeon so I'll reserve full judgement for when I finish the game, which will probably take a long time, I just can't help to stare at every little detail of the world and do every sidequest possible.
Post by: Caliban on December 23, 2006, 10:41:42 AM
Post by: Mario on December 23, 2006, 01:03:51 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 26, 2006, 06:03:25 AM
I accidentally roamed around the castle town in wolf form and everyone freaked and started to scream, besides me laughing at these events, the game did have a drop in frame rate specially in the town center where there are more people.
I guess it doesn't happen in the wii version
I'm approaching the end which is something I don't like, I don't want it to end T_T
Post by: Smoke39 on December 26, 2006, 02:13:06 PM
Post by: Artimus on December 26, 2006, 03:47:05 PM
Post by: mantidor on December 27, 2006, 04:20:40 AM
The art is spectacular, but on an individual basis, I look at every character and see how detailed and how much personality they have (Telma surprised me the most, she felt so real that it was scary, even though all characters have that super deformed look of the wind waker), but in an overall sense, the game lacks the personality that MM or tWW had, because it doesn't aim to have an underlaying theme, well theres the twilight but its just not the same, the game feels very much like ocarina or aLttP, which were practically generic fantasy.
I noticed some aiming centric places like the old western-like town with shooting and all which was absolutely awesome and the oocaa city, which were the only places I missed a remote (and I haven't even touched one ever) and it was obvious they were design after it, but as I expected with my little cube all it did was to raise the difficulty a bit which isn't a terrible bad thing, and I haven't missed a remote controller at all in the sword battles, I wish Nintendo would go back to buttons for the sword but unfortunately it won't happen, better start getting trying to get used to that idea.
Post by: Smoke39 on December 27, 2006, 03:53:22 PM
The art's definitely well done, it's just that, like you said, it doesn't have the same amount of personality as previous games. I think it has more of a generic fantasy vibe than OoT had. MM and WW did have more personality than OoT, though.
I'm kinda getting used to the different style, but it still doesn't quite feel like Zelda to me. It kind of feels like a well-crafted Zelda clone that doesn't quite get the spirit down exactly.
I really like aiming the bow in first person without an explicit aiming reticule. I think I'd miss that in the Wii version. I like all the new sword fighting techniques (like manually performing the parries from WW, and especially the finishing move). I just hope there are some enemies that actually require you to make good use of them later in the game.
I just finished the 3rd dungeon and got the master sword. It's my favorite so far. The bosses have been fun, but they've sure been easy.
Post by: DeadNote27 on December 29, 2006, 12:20:43 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think the graphics and art style of the game is beautiful, I was just kinda wondering what's the point with all the fog. Is it for technical reasons, or more for artistic/mood setting purposes?
I personally think they shouldn't use this effect so much. For me, it takes away from the beauty of the games environments. I even remember Wind Waker having the same issues, I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Though I guess since TP is running on the WW engine, it's not surprising they used the hell out of it. I love when there is no fog, everything is so crisp, clear, and beautiful. I just hope this fog effect isn't something Nintendo continues to use, because it isn't needed IMHO.
So what's the fog for, anyone know? If it’s just for art direction, then I’d soon they just left it out. It'd be fine if Link was crossing a foggy lake or it's the early morning, I can see the point of the fog then, but not every friggin where you go, anyone else?
Post by: Smoke39 on December 30, 2006, 01:46:40 AM
Post by: DeadNote27 on December 30, 2006, 05:37:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
What're you talking about? The fog was really sparse in the game. I'd be surprised if it were for technical reasons; it was so thin I doubt it'd be enough to actually occlude anything.
A good example of what I'm talking about would be in Kakariko Village, but the same effect is in a lot of other places like dungeons. If you go to Kakariko during the day and walk into the spirit spring, you'll notice the fog (or in Kakariko's case I'd say dust due it's location) isn't present. However, the second you leave the spring and start going through town, it's like you just walked into a dust storm of sorts. It is a dried up looking town after all, and should probably have this effect, but I don't think it should be used nearly everywhere else you go. Next time you play, pay attention to how often you notice it, and I think you'll find that it's not that sparce.
Anyway, I agree that it's pretty thin and doesn't really get in the way of anything, I guess I just found it a bit annoying at times. I mean, it does put a bit of a haze over things.
Post by: Smoke39 on December 30, 2006, 06:29:19 PM
Post by: DeadNote27 on December 31, 2006, 12:50:01 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on December 31, 2006, 01:48:41 AM
Post by: mantidor on December 31, 2006, 10:21:52 AM
Final thoughts on the game, I love it, if I was forced to make a "top Zelda list" I'll have to put it in second tied with the Wind Waker because MM is still my top game of all time, but I actually don't have to so Ill just say that I love all Zelda games and I can't wait for the next one.
about the story for being called the spiritual successor of Ocarina there were little to no references at all, its funny it end up being more of a side story, where Zelda,Ganondorf and Link were secondary to Midna and her quest to rescue her realm, WW has way more references to OoT, with the sages in the stained glasses for instance, the legend of the hero and all that. I was really expecting more connections with OoT and WW, when I entered the temple of time and saw the art direction I was hoping for some clue that this would eventually became the tower of the gods, but nothing. I don't even now if this is part of the first timeline, the one of the WW, or the second timeline, the one in MM, but I guess that wasn't the intention of Nintendo, the timeline is more confusing now than ever before!
Post by: Smoke39 on December 31, 2006, 02:47:27 PM
As for which timeline TP follows, somewhere in WW someone refers to the hero of time leaving, which separated him from what made him a hero, or something, as an explanation for the triforce of courage being broken and strewn about. I generally take that to refer to Link leaving Hyrule for Termina, which to me seems to suggest that the Zelda series' version of how time travel works has one single, though mutable, timeflow, rather than multiple threads.
Then again I also seem to recall Miyamoto or some other important Nintendo fellow saying something about distinct young Link and adult Link timelines, so what the hell do I know? :b
Post by: Caliban on December 31, 2006, 03:40:45 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on December 31, 2006, 04:03:52 PM
Post by: Caliban on January 01, 2007, 01:25:36 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on January 01, 2007, 02:26:34 PM
Post by: Caliban on January 02, 2007, 01:15:45 AM
Post by: DeadNote27 on January 02, 2007, 05:03:04 AM
Post by: MysticGohan on January 02, 2007, 06:47:03 AM
Bah, for some reason the spoiler tags aren't working quite right, it's like it doubled my sentence, but won't let me edit it.
SPOILERS! RUN! DON"T LOOK EMMA!
For some freak of nature I cannot edit the last sentence as it won't show up in the edit options.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 02, 2007, 06:59:03 AM
LEARN THE FRIGGIN SPOILER TAGS
AUUUUUUUUGGGHHH I ONLY JUST GOT THE MASTER ROD
Post by: mantidor on January 03, 2007, 01:27:39 PM
My timeline theory is this Aonuma loves timeline while Miyamoto doesn't, Aonuma's games, MM and WW, are heavily connected to their predecessors in the timeline, and theres no question about their place, while Miyamoto's games are loosely tied, its just more proof how Miyamoto was so deeply involved in this game that it really doesn't fit in the timeline that easy.
But it really looks like this game is part of the MM timeline, after all OoT Link returned to a world without ganon being imprisoned, without a splitted triforce and all that, so my guess is in this timeline after MM ganon got hold of the triforce anyway, splitted the triforce, was twilight imprisoned and then TP occurs, and luckily the wii zelda game, with less Miyamoto influence will connect all 3D Zeldas by joining the two timelines.
What Im almost sure is that MM is connected to this twilight realm, after all, its said that the mask was banned into shadow because of its powers, that corrupted certain tribe that Im almost sure is Midna's. Yes Im basing this solely on the fact that the fuse shadow has an eye thats just like the one in the mask.
Post by: Kairon on January 03, 2007, 02:16:48 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Shecky on January 03, 2007, 03:58:11 PM
A very rough summary is that (1) imagination is a lost art... Everything has to "fit" especially with the newer generations. It all has to make sense. What happened to the days where you just use your imagination to build a story around each game... even if they were "sequels"
Secondly, games - especially those made back then - were on a game by game basis. It was great if you even got to make a sequel. Now games are sometimes made with stories that are intentionally split over multiple titles and planned from the beginning.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 03, 2007, 04:35:42 PM
Post by: Kairon on January 03, 2007, 05:02:34 PM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smoke39 on January 03, 2007, 06:20:11 PM
My point is that if someone wants to interpret the series as a single story, fine. If you want to interpret each game as being completely distinct and disjoint, fine. Discussing individual interpretations doesn't necessarily make any of them wrong.
Post by: Shecky on January 04, 2007, 03:10:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Guess what people are doing when they try to fit games together into a single timeline? Using their imagination to fill in the blanks. You fail at being a hopeless romantic.
No I don't. See I don't care if you came up with a cool story that tried to make one timeline... in fact I may enjoy hearing it. HOWEVER, my problem is when folks argue and bicker about who's right - based on so called "facts"... and don't tell me that doesn't happen. In fact that's what usually happens in a timeline thread and that's my point.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 04, 2007, 05:40:43 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 04, 2007, 06:00:54 AM
What do you mean by "fit"? You mean things have to logically make sense? That doesn't have anything to do with imagination. My Zelda timeline is what makes sense to me and doesn't necessarily follow any official timeline. But it still has to fit in such a way that some form of a timeline is possible. It has to fit in a way that one game can't introduce some element that makes it impossible for the other games to have occured. My imagination can't cover up things that make no sense.
I do like having some things left to the imagination though. I still pretend Star Wars is just three movies. It was better that way. George Lucas' official backstory is a million times less interesting then the vague assumed backstory that was in my head. His also has inconsistencies. Hell his just plain SUCKS.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 04, 2007, 02:30:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Guess what people are doing when they try to fit games together into a single timeline? Using their imagination to fill in the blanks. You fail at being a hopeless romantic.
No I don't. See I don't care if you came up with a cool story that tried to make one timeline... in fact I may enjoy hearing it. HOWEVER, my problem is when folks argue and bicker about who's right - based on so called "facts"... and don't tell me that doesn't happen. In fact that's what usually happens in a timeline thread and that's my point.
'Kay. Distinction between bickering and discussing noted.
Post by: mantidor on January 13, 2007, 04:20:31 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on January 13, 2007, 07:53:27 AM
Howling was pretty lame. The music playing element in general was lame. Like Ian said in the TPGC review thread, they really had a good thing going with OoT and MM. Then they devolved it pretty hard in WW, and in TP they pretty much wrecked it. They might as well have removed the music element altogether.
Speaking of the music playing, did anyone else think they really screwed up the horse's usefulness? I mean, for one, you can only call your horse if there are some reeds nearby. Second, your horse is kidnapped for a decent portion of the beginning of the game, isn't it? Then later you can transform into a wolf at will, which lets you move pretty fast without having to take the time to call your horse, and without having to keep getting on and off anytime you wanna do something. And finally, you get the call-anywhere whistle, but by that time you probably have all of the warp portals at your disposal.
And did the hawk have any use outside of grabbing the cradle and whacking the bees' nest in the beginning?
Post by: IceCold on January 13, 2007, 08:12:11 AM
QuoteGet with the times! It's "The Nintendo World Report" (TNWR) review thread, not TPGC!
Like Ian said in the TPGC review thread
Yes, I do know that that meant Twilight Princess GameCube
Post by: Caliban on January 13, 2007, 09:03:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
And did the hawk have any use outside of grabbing the cradle and whacking the bees' nest in the beginning?
Death Mountain.
Post by: Shecky on January 13, 2007, 11:07:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: CalibanQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
And did the hawk have any use outside of grabbing the cradle and whacking the bees' nest in the beginning?
Death Mountain.
It is possible to use a slingshot in that scenario.
Post by: mantidor on January 13, 2007, 11:19:21 AM
Post by: Caliban on January 13, 2007, 01:54:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: CalibanQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
And did the hawk have any use outside of grabbing the cradle and whacking the bees' nest in the beginning?
Death Mountain.
It is possible to use a slingshot in that scenario.
LMAO, I'm on my 2nd playthrough and I still thought I could only use the Hawk.
Mantidor: Can not the vocal cords be considered a musical instrument? I think they can.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 13, 2007, 02:29:26 PM
Post by: wandering on January 14, 2007, 10:32:58 AM
Quote
specially with a moon who went from crecent to full moon, it was a really neat detail in the WW, but it became more awesome when it was used to
Spoilers! Arrgh.
Quote
The whole time signature idea was terrible.
I think they wanted to force people to play the songs correctly. But I agree, it made playing music less fun.
Post by: mantidor on January 14, 2007, 11:35:49 AM
Since howling was like the baton with limited options, just three notes and nothing more, it didn't had the same impression as the ocarina had, it was more like a special calling method.
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 14, 2007, 11:42:24 AM
On a side note, I sure am glad they broke the chain of item names for titles:
The Wind Waker
The Minish Cap
Majora's Mask
Ocarina of Time
(One could also argue that Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures are part of this list, although the actual item is the Four Sword--no "s".)
Post by: wandering on January 14, 2007, 11:49:15 AM
Quote
shame on you if you haven't played and completed tWW at this point.
I stopped when I got to the triforce quest. I know, I'm a bad person.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 14, 2007, 01:16:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
The howling was pretty weak, but it wasn't really a major part of the game. On the other hand, the Wind Waker and Ocarina were used often, so they needed to work well (although I did not like the baton).
That's a lame excuse. If you're not going to improve it, then don't bother reinventing it.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 14, 2007, 01:36:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
shame on you if you haven't played and completed tWW at this point.
I stopped when I got to the triforce quest. I know, I'm a bad person.
Don't feel too bad...I too stopped playing the game after I found out I had to hunt down all the triforce pieces. The sailing was annoying, so having to do it became a chore.
It wasn't till I grew severely bored that I went back to the game and finished it.
Post by: Shecky on January 14, 2007, 01:46:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
(One could also argue that Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures are part of this list, although the actual item is the Four Sword--no "s".)
If that's the case "The Four Sword" is just a proper name for a group of four swords.
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 14, 2007, 01:47:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
That's a lame excuse. If you're not going to improve it, then don't bother reinventing it.
Just because something makes a reappearance, does not mean that it has to be improved. The slingshot has pretty much been the same since Ocarina of Time, but that is not a problem because it doesn't need fixing. Now I will admit that I prefer the Ocarina to the Wind Waker or howling, but I don't think that Nintendo has an obligation to 1-up the Ocarina in every game they make--especially if the game is not centered around a musical instrument.
Post by: IceCold on January 14, 2007, 03:31:17 PM
QuoteI can't believe how many people stopped because of that. It was so easy too - took me an hour at most..
Originally posted by: wanderingQuote
shame on you if you haven't played and completed tWW at this point.
I stopped when I got to the triforce quest. I know, I'm a bad person.
Post by: Smoke39 on January 14, 2007, 03:41:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStarQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
That's a lame excuse. If you're not going to improve it, then don't bother reinventing it.
Just because something makes a reappearance, does not mean that it has to be improved. The slingshot has pretty much been the same since Ocarina of Time, but that is not a problem because it doesn't need fixing. Now I will admit that I prefer the Ocarina to the Wind Waker or howling, but I don't think that Nintendo has an obligation to 1-up the Ocarina in every game they make--especially if the game is not centered around a musical instrument.
I wasn't talking about reappearance. I was talking about reinvention. They don't have to outdo the ocarina, but if they're gonna include music playing they should at least not make it worse. That is, if they want to reuse a previous item--in this case a music-playing "item"--they should either change it for the better, or not change it at all.
Post by: Athrun Zala on February 28, 2007, 02:34:40 AM
it's like, missing the spirit of previous Zelda games.... besides the fact that the dungeon difficulty graph is like a Gauss bell and the lack of magic meter and arrows is instafail....
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 28, 2007, 05:55:03 PM
Post by: Shecky on March 01, 2007, 12:45:10 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 01, 2007, 05:35:13 AM
Post by: Gamebasher on April 02, 2007, 04:40:08 PM
Apart from being the best Zelda since WW, it is indeed missing the spirit of "previous" Zelda games. And here I mean of course OOT and MM, as they are the only other Zelda games I have ever played. Didn´t like the 2D versions at all. I went total 3D after playing Mario 64, and at that time I had never even heard of the Legend of Zelda series. I only owned A SEGA MegaDrive console in those days and was content with that as it was being flooded with games.
In any event, I had hoped that TLP would be as good as OOT, but there were some Windwaker elements in there which detracts from the feeling of a realistic world. To name the ones I noticed immediately: The weird explosions (that are the same almost every time you kill an enemy) after a kill, the big annoying red arrow above enemies you lock on to (hey Nintendo, I CAN see the enemy I am supposed to kill, OK? You DON ´T have to exagerate), and the WW music when Link is in immediate danger. And not to forget the superficial feeling of the first dungeon, the Forest Temple. That place I will never want to go to again.
It felt like it had been made by someone who had been yanked from his chair at the WW dev department, and over to the TLP dev department, and immedately demanding that he start excelling at the realistic style over the cell shaded one. In short, the feeling I get from TLP is that of WW and OOT in a strange mix. And I wanted pure OOT feel. Is it a coincidence that it isn´t Miyamoto who directed that game, but only produced it? I don´t think so! I say: if we are to ever get a REAL OOT game again, it will require Miyamoto to take over the directors chair again. And that is likely never going to happen, because he is too busy with a million other VERY important that concerns Nintendo´s world conquest.
Still, I don´t think they will ever again make a cartoon style Zelda. I read an interview where Eiji Aonouma said that WW had sold less than Nintendo was satisfied with, and so he had brought the matter up with Miyamoto with Aonouma suggesting that they drop the cell shaded style Zelda in favour of a more realistic one. While Miyamoto didn´t at first agree, he finally gave in after some time and left the controls to Aonouma. And Voila! We got TLP. A brilliant game, but not quite OOT. Maybe the next Zelda game will surpass TLP and OOT?
Post by: IceCold on April 02, 2007, 05:04:40 PM
QuotePhantom Hourglass says "Hi!"
Still, I don´t think they will ever again make a cartoon style Zelda.
Post by: King of Twitch on April 02, 2007, 05:50:42 PM
Post by: Gamebasher on April 03, 2007, 10:19:52 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on June 30, 2007, 09:56:22 PM
So this crazy snaggle-toothed she-thing is bossing me around. What's up with that?
Post by: Kairon on June 30, 2007, 10:52:43 PM
Post by: mantidor on July 01, 2007, 04:50:46 AM
I remember way way back Aonuma mentioned they weren't implementing voice acting, but they were experimenting with something else, I guess it was the unintelligible sounds Midna speaks, I wonder if they planned it for all characters but got caught by the deadline, since everyone has lip movement.
Post by: ShineGet887 on July 01, 2007, 09:05:26 AM
1.) It is NOT the best Zelda game.
2.) It is still great despite that.
3.) Wind Waker was a much more unique and inventive game.
Don't get me wrong guys, I -love- Twilight Princess for what it is, but I can't help but get a headache when people say it's the best Zelda game. In my opinion, I'd say it's probably 3rd and possibly even 4th on the list, simply due to the fact that the innovations it made in the series were few and far between. I'll outline this below.
- The howling system was rarely used and on the whole just a pretty bad system of playing the Zelda tunes.
- The transformation feature was done very well, but I still consider the sailing and graphical elements of Wind Waker and the time traveling elements of OoT considerably better ideas.
- They did a good job throwing unique items into each of the dungeons, but some of them such as the Spinner were almost complete worthless outside of the dungeon they were designed for.
All in all, TP strikes me as more of a 9.0 than a 10, which isn't bad. I know I'm probably in the minority in saying these things, but I could care less.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 01, 2007, 09:28:11 AM
1. The fog and smoke seems to be interlaced, which seems odd. I don't know why they did it this way, Just transparency would be much cleaner.
2. They seem to do FSAA (full screen anti-aliasing) during the twilight sections, The regular parts of the game can get a little jaggy sometimes. I wish they could have done AA for all the areas, but I'm sure the cube couldn't handle it.
Post by: Mashiro on July 01, 2007, 09:34:44 AM
I dunno what it is about Zelda endings after OoT but they seem to just end on a really dull note. A Link to the Past still has the best ending out of all the Zelda games by far IMHO with OoT coming in second. TP was good but the ending was just ...boring. Though it was better than the bubble crap at the end of Wind Waker. It was like someone forgot to make an ending cinema or something.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2007, 11:03:19 AM
Post by: MarioAllStar on July 01, 2007, 12:36:24 PM
Link's Awakening had a pretty good (if not somewhat confusing) ending too.
Post by: Mashiro on July 01, 2007, 12:52:23 PM
Post by: mantidor on July 01, 2007, 02:02:20 PM
) as long as you do all the right things.WW finale was amazing, not as good as MM, but close enough.
Post by: Majora on July 01, 2007, 07:30:25 PM
Wind Warker's was awesome, yet it generally cops criticism.... Sigh... How I wish for another cell shaded Zelda adventure.
I personally have loved all the Zelda endings, Twilight Princess no exception...
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2007, 08:36:02 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2007, 08:53:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Actually, playing TP made me appreciate WW so much more.
Made me appreciate just how amazing both games were!
Post by: Mashiro on July 01, 2007, 08:59:53 PM
For the record I enjoyed both WW and TP very much =) way more than OoT actually but not as much as ALTTP. Something about the classics that's just hard to beat . . .
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2007, 09:01:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
What I want out of the next Zelda title: sword swings based off gestures from the Wiimote <3.
For the record I enjoyed both WW and TP very much =) way more than OoT actually but not as much as ALTTP. Something about the classics that's just hard to beat . . .
You know I agree with you 100%, I think the same way about those games.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 01, 2007, 09:01:46 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2007, 09:03:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Ok, so Shrek's ugly cousin rode through on a pig and stole that kid. (In slow motion so it was extra cool.) LInk chased after him (Boom! awesome horseback battles FTW) and we had this big showdown. That was one the coolest sequences in games EVAR.
Yes that was a really great moment in the game, there are other "Wow" moments as well.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2007, 09:06:40 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2007, 09:18:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm sorry, as soon as the game shifted into slow motion for that scene, my cynicism shield activated. Nice try Nintendo.
No you got it wrong it was your "Not Recommended, except for Kairon" shield that went up.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2007, 09:24:38 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2007, 04:33:20 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on July 02, 2007, 05:08:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm sorry, as soon as the game shifted into slow motion for that scene, my cynicism shield activated. Nice try Nintendo.
Just pretend the game was made by Ubisoft or some other third part y
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 02, 2007, 06:09:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I could have lived without every horseback fighting sequence myself.
I think your talking about a specific part, but I loved the horse back fights in TP. It was some of the best action. :p
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2007, 06:44:45 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2007, 07:15:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Just pretend the game was made by Ubisoft or some other third part y
Don't be fooled by my third-party friendly exterior, because underneath beats the heart of a raging Nintendo fanboi, who can tell the difference between a 'fun' game... and a beautiful one.
I condescend to third parties. But I worship Nintendo.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 02, 2007, 08:20:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Yeah, the horseback fighting was neat, but it wasn't anything new actually. It was underutilized, and underdeveloped as a gameplay concept. In truth, what was different from TP's horseback combat and FF7's bike chase sequence? I don't see much difference at all.Quote
Maybe because fighting on a horse and riding on a bike are different.
Post by: King of Twitch on July 03, 2007, 01:51:47 PM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 07, 2007, 01:55:32 AM
In my own opinion. a resounding NO (regrettably). TLP has many of the right elements, that propel it into that direction, but it is not greater than OOT.
Nintendo has failed trying to make it greater than OOT. First and foremost, the dungeons aren´t half as inviting as the ones in OOT. There is too much WW over them (simplistic). They are too simple, too small, over too quickly, and lack the complexity of the ones seen in OOT. The level furniture placement alone means that there is really very few things to come back for later on. I looked many times for more secrets to discover, after a particular dungeon was completed, but found none.
I don´t feel like going back to those places again. The Temple of Time has been just thrown in there for good measure, and has no relevance that comes near it´s significance to the story in OOT. Huge dissapointment.
The new Gerudo Desert looks more like the constricted desert land of Super Mario 64 (which was great in it´s time as no such world had previously been seen in a game), than the far reaching and awesome Gerudo desert found in OOT.
In Ocarina of Time, you could FEEL being in a living, vibrant world full of wonder, and enchantment. And THINGS TO DISCOVER thanks to little details placed everywhere in the lands they had created.
Such as looking over the sides of a bridge, and looking hundreds of meters down to see a mighty river roaring at the bottom. You could even go there. Such was everywhere in OOT. I have yet to discover a similar wealth of details in TLP. There is simply nothing but haze, if you gaze down over the sides of a bridge outside Ordon Village. The other bridges are the same. Princess Zelda is appearing so rarely that you might be forgiven for forgetting her existence! What about the music? Yes, the music sucks this time around! It is nowhere near the feel of being in the middle of an awesome fairytale as OOT was. And that sweet owl I would like to see back one day too. I could go on, but think I will not. TLP is "good". But it is far, far from OOT in terms of level ingenuity and detail in my opinion. Story wise it suffers, stutters where as in terms of gameplay mechanics it´s more advanced than OOT and the way Gannondorf looks? Straight out of Wind Waker! He looked WAY cooler in OOT.
I really don´t believe that I am the only forum member/Nintendo gamer, who can see that difference between the two Zelda games.
I regard TLP as an attempt by Nintendo to jump over where the fence was lowest (for reasons of budget restrictions, or time constraint?) in an attempt to reach to the former heights of magnificence seen in OOT. It is clear that this game has not been worked on the way OOT was (I read the online interviews concerning that games creation, and it had really one heck of a lot of people and time involved). They have spent too little time on TLP (which I also read somewhere was expressed by members of the developement team). I see it vividly demonstrated here in this game, how Nintendo has dropped the long developement cycles of former years, shifting into a faster gear of less developement time and more games.
Perhaps they are forgetting that there is many Zelda fans who cherished OOT for the rich, vibrant worlds it had? While it is ok to give us more games, they should never forget that Zelda is a very old franchise with a huge following and so it should be one of those games that are worked on extensively always.
Nintendo is about great entertainment, so I hope they will re-invent the Zelda series for Wii and give us back the awesome adventure we had in OOT. Until then, I will have my copies of Zelda games sitting on the shelf for a casual return to the only Hyrule that matters now and then. Until one day Nintendo wakes up, and return Link to where the adventures really rocks!
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 07, 2007, 04:16:25 AM
I am not saying OoT was perfect...it isn't. In fact several things keep it from being perfect in my opinion, but it was the FIRST 3D Zelda and as such it was able to move all the original Zelda formula which we love to 3D.
OoT will always be in our memory as the standard of 3D Zelda games because it came first. Perhaps this is why we don't think there is a better 3D Zelda game. Isn't it the same reason we still believe Mario 64 to be the best 3D platformer and that Sunshine is failure in comparison...yet Sunshine had vast improvements over 64 in many areas.
How about looking at Twilight Princess not from the expectations of surpassing OoT in everything, but in what areas it did surpass OoT.
Here is my list:
Sword Combat: Twilight Princess took a simplistic combat system from OoT and Wind Waker and jazzed it up. Providing more moves and variety in attacks. They weren't all needed, but mastering them did make combat easier and more enjoyable, specially in the cave of ordeals.
Story Telling: OoT had a very simple story, that didn't really introduce any new elements to the Zelda franchise. Where Twilight Princess story telling was more epic and cinematic. It had fight an epic battle on horse back to save a boy, introduced new worlds and mythos to the franchise, and told it in such an epic way that it actually truly connected stories together. No Zelda has really attempted to achieve so much.
Bosses: This is debatable because the OoT bosses seemed to be much more difficult, but I would say as a whole the overall design of the bosses in Twilight Princess were bigger and better. Their are some memorable bosses in OoT. The first boss, the water temple, ganon and gannondorf...but Twilight Princesses designs were just more imaginative. The battle at Eldin Bridge, the Zant battle, the Dragon in the sky...all the bosses were very cool.
World Design: Twilight Princesses worlds felt more like a single connected world than OoT.
I would say that OoT will always be in our hearts as the original and greatest 3D Zelda, but lets not blindly ignore when other games in the series actually surpass it in many areas even if it may not surpass it in overall experience.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 07, 2007, 04:31:03 AM
I don't think I can pick a preference between OoT and TP, but I like MM better than both.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 07, 2007, 05:06:20 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 07, 2007, 07:17:10 AM
I think the STORY to OoT was more well conceived than TP but OoT's biggest issue was its gameplay. While it was ground breaking and revolutionary and original (lock on targeting and such), I just felt it wasn't perfected enough and I found myself not really getting "pulled in" to the OoT experience.
I am one of the few people out there who will probably openly admit to not really enjoying OoT (cept for the ending, the whole Gannon fight was awesome). I think Wind Waker and TP are better than OoT simply for the fact that I got into those games more, but that's just one persons perspective on it.
To this day, though, no Zelda game is greater than ALttP in my eyes. Still all around the best Zelda game I've played.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 07, 2007, 07:18:42 AM
So when I played OOT, what was it specifically that made it so great? Epic? What goes into making a game so great that it really feels so good to play, to look at, to listen to? Answer: elements of many kinds that when put together into a seemless creation makes it "epic". It sure helped that it was the first 3D Zelda. But still, the game was an industry milestone.
Nintendo has the tendency to focus on different elements of a specific nature, when attempting to renew the Zelda or Mario franchises. With TLP it seems to have been with less focus on the story, and the bosses, which is a shame. Because any quest in any game revolves around a story. And: the story needs to be good in order to make the gamer feel actively involved. Feel it is worth it to go to extra lengths to progress through the game. Now comes the essence of my point: many psychological elements are involved in the process that determine if a game is so coveted by gamers, that it is a must for them to play it. Here is a little listing of crucial elements to a good game as I have learned them over the years:
STORY/quest. This is paramount, as it alone will carry the very reason why one should play the game: to be part of some conflict, some battle, some quest, a F1 race, a sports event etc. Sub-element of a games story is the quest itself. What you have to do, and as importantly, how you are asked to do it by the games developers.
GAMEPLAY. That has to be doable in terms of how the controls work. That gamepad is our extended limbs in that cyber universe, so it has to deliver, or frustration sets in and we drop playing sooner or later. On top of that the camera, as an integral part of the gameplay mechanics, has to be in order as well, so you don´t have things in the way of the view so you can´t see where you´re going or what you´re doing in there. No accidental deaths accepted here.
MUSIC. This is also of great importance, allthough less with sports games in my view. The music in a game can excite you, soothe you, enchant you, uplift you and remove stress from daily life sucking you into that alternate dimension making you feel good while you are there.
GRAPHICS. They have to be good to look at, not jagged, blurry or ugly. Beautifull to behold for the gamer who must progress through that world which is made up of it (graphics).
These four elements are the primary elements that goes into a good game. They are the ones that make a game good or bad.
But there is one fifth element which I should mention too. The current public trend. What games do people like to play? What are they playing now? What games did they hate, which ones did they love? What are their expectations right now? What will they expect in the future? You can make a game so good, and maybe people wont play it! Maybe it will be overlooked. So if you want to get a hit on your hands, you have to know many things about what people like and expect. Nintendo knows all of this. Always have.
Now, back to OOT and why I think it was the best ever, better than TLP, and not merely because it was the first 3D Zelda.
When I played OOT, I had previously played Super Mario 64. I had never played any of the 2D Mario games. I had loved MArio 64, for it´s awesome 3D world which even though being small in size, overall was so chokefull of fun that it could be played through over and over 20 times. Zelda was this strange game about a peculiar looking character with pointy ears in a green tunic. When I first picked it up, it was because I wanted to have more of the gaming fun from the Mario 64 game. And boy did it deliver. It was as if Nintendo had magically transferred all of the fun from Mario 64, into an awesome adventure, where you had to save a land called Hyrule, and a sweet little Princess called Zelda. I was instantly hooked. The sights and sounds of that world was awesome. When I got to the Temple of Time, I thought I was in heaven. The monk choir was awesome. Sheik´s sudden apperances. The Ocarina melodies. And so was the whole rest of that game. A clever combination of many elements, expertly put together.
And that is basically why I didn´t like TLP. To me, that game has only two great elements: GAMEPLAY and GRAPHICS.
See now what I mean? The two other crucial elements - STORY/quest and MUSIC are so poor in comparison to what they were in OOT, that they simply pull the games overall value down several points in any score I would have given that game. Hate me for it, but I tell you that since OOT got 10 out of 10, TLP deserves no more than 8.5 And I do think that the reviewers should be carefull how they score games. I think they were too nice on TLP. So 8.5. No more, no less. Afterall, Nintendo has tried to listen to many requests in the making of that game (the request for a darker, realistic art style in particular).
I will add that I read in the news that Koji Kondo, who created the music for OOT, was not in charge of the music in TLP. Only his team was. And on top of that it wasn´t Shigeru Miyamoto either who directed TLP. It was Eiji Aonuma. Miyamoto was the producer only. Clues that made me understand that this time around, as with WW, it wasn´t the masters from OOT at work.
So they forgot to work on said two elements. And it shows all the way through the game. I think many Japanese gamers agree with me on this, as the game, according to news I read, didn´t perform very well in Japan. A sure sign of dissapointment with the established fanbase there.
Once you mess up on the STORY/quest and MUSIC elements, it doesn´t matter what you try to tag on to make up for it. Wii controls or not. The MUSIC in TLP is MIDI, not orchestrated, as it was in OOT. The quest (sub-element of STORY) is downright boring. It is stretched somehow. Stretched out over too little actual content. Had they worked on furthering the STORY/quest, to make them more dense, more rich in content, and created a fully orchestrated background MUSIC, it would have made it an instant 10 out of 10. TLP is a 50% OOT, that could have been an 150% OOT had they worked more on the STORY/quest and MUSIC.
This is my verdict on how Nintendo did in their attempt to make TLP better than OOT. They specifically stated they wanted to do so, yet only succeeded half the way.
OOT was a milestone. Nintendo have work to do, if they want to surpass OOT in gaming excellence.
Post by: Mashiro on July 07, 2007, 07:20:31 AM
Edit: Also I'm not sure where you get your information from but the music in OoT was not orchestrated . . . it was midi formated as well. The people behind the music in TP (Koji Konodo actually said the following I think) that they wished to do an Orchestrated sound track for TP. However, the game itself called for musical cues to come from actions based on screen (example: when fighting enemies and you hit them a musical change occurs), and that isn't possible with non-midi music.
Post by: Adrock on July 07, 2007, 07:25:46 AM
Quote
To this day, though, no Zelda game is greater than ALttP in my eyes. Still all around the best Zelda game I've played.
Tha's the true sh*t.
I thought Ocarina of Time was overrated though I still greatly enjoyed the game. The plots of both OoT and TP were weak and generally uninspired (How can we fit 2 worlds in another game? Hmm...). Ocarina of Time's story was the worst between the 2, but less annoying to get through due to shorter cutscenes.
Twilight Princess was a better overall game. The later dungeons were almost boring and the lack of plot during that part of the game made me wonder why I was bothering. Also, Zant was a tool.
Post by: Athrun Zala on July 07, 2007, 07:29:02 AM
QuoteYes, and it's called Majora's Mask
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wow. Here is the real question can any 3D Zelda be better than OoT?
Post by: Kairon on July 07, 2007, 07:38:47 AM
More and more, I'm believing that Zelda games without Miyamoto's personal attention will feel incomplete in some manner, and lacking some indescribable essential integration of all their components.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 07, 2007, 07:52:32 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 07, 2007, 08:53:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gamebasher
People are perhaps too lazy these days to work hard enough to make a game as great as OOT.
I don't really believe that, and it is kind of unfair to say. I think in a lot of areas Wind Waker (for example) were better than OoT. It had a great backstory (relating it to a previous Link which hasn't been done before), great character (I found myself more interested in the various races in WW than in OoT), a better all around supporting cast, and not to mention the re-powering up of the master sword (<3 master sword, boo big goron sword).
Though it had it's short comings which made it not "as good" as OoT (triforce search, one too few dungeons, etc) but that isn't to say the development team was nessasarily 'lazy', I'd say it falls along the lines of time constraints getting in the way of adding more to an already great game.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 07, 2007, 09:31:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Forum Goers
Blah Blah Words.
About 24 hours in so far, I like it. I like it a lot. Better than Oot? Maybe. In the same way that Super Mario Bros 3 was better than Super Mario Bros. SMB was near perfection but SMB3 just offered more.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 07, 2007, 02:50:17 PM
Post by: mantidor on July 07, 2007, 03:15:46 PM
"Once you mess up on the STORY/quest and MUSIC elements, it doesn´t matter what you try to tag on to make up for it. Wii controls or not. The MUSIC in TLP is MIDI, not orchestrated, as it was in OOT."
No, no, no, Zelda has NEVER seen orchestrated music, is a shame, it was partially excusable in OoT, MM and the WW since the music was dynamic. TP was a step back in that area after the wonderful use of dynamic music along with the sword slashes in tWW, as wonderful as it was, it was still very basic and should have been expanded in TP. Here I think their promise of orchestrated music was the problem, they left out the dinamic music expecting orchestrated and ended up with neither, TP dinamic music is barely on par with OoT.
I'm not to knowledgable about it but I think its very possible to finally have orchestated/instrumental music that is also dinamic these days, and I hope a future game uses it.
As for the rest I have some comments as well
"I will add that I read in the news that Koji Kondo, who created the music for OOT, was not in charge of the music in TLP. Only his team was. And on top of that it wasn´t Shigeru Miyamoto either who directed TLP. It was Eiji Aonuma. Miyamoto was the producer only. Clues that made me understand that this time around, as with WW, it wasn´t the masters from OOT at work."
Yet Nintendo said every chance they got how involved Miyamoto was, he even said he has never been this involved in a game he wasn't directing. We will really never know, its even possible all that talk was just marketing for the game since Miyamoto's name is huge, however I doubt his influence was small, and even if it was that can only be a good thing, I'm sure he has taught a lot to Nintendo's other developers and they are perfectly capable of taking that and making it move forward, Miyamoto, as great as he is, is not perfect, and his views are limited, like for instance the forest-water-fire-shadow cliche that even Metroid Prime saw as an influence. Nintendo is ready to move on, and we the fans should let them, it should not be requirement that Miyamoyo directs or even supervises the next Mario, zelda or Metroid.
Also, dont forget Aonuma was also involved in OoT, the masters of that game were at work in all they other sequels, I have no doubt about it.
"So they forgot to work on said two elements. And it shows all the way through the game. I think many Japanese gamers agree with me on this, as the game, according to news I read, didn´t perform very well in Japan. A sure sign of dissapointment with the established fanbase there."
I think tWW didn't do as well over there either, the problem isn't TP, is the franchise in general, I don't care, it just shows the awful japanese taste in games :P.
...
The problem with TP is simple, they had in mind to make a game for western fans after all the issues in the gaming community with the previous 3D zelda games, and that will never produce a game that has as much impact as OoT had, the have to THROW things out of the window to make that happen. Another lesson in "be careful what you wish for", because Zelda fanboys got what they asked, TP is the perfect OoT^2, but is just that.
Of course ( and I'm sure you knew this was coming
) splitting development for two different control methods didn't help.Also, I approve all this Majora's Mask love
Let Aonuma alone and we will have an AWESOME new wii Zelda game, just look at Phantom Hourglass.EDIT
see? I read Gamebasher posts and I end up ignoring the others
, I just read Mashiro's mention of midi music. I still doubt very much TP had the dinamic cues of tWW, if they put them in, they did a crappy job because I didn't notice them at all as opposed to tWW, I'm going to check the game again.
Post by: Mashiro on July 07, 2007, 03:49:32 PM
In Wind Waker, the one thing I loved about it leaps and bounds over OoT, is that Link actually makes bonds with the characters he meets. The dragon he helps for example, comes back with the pirates and such to help assault Gannon's fortress. The boat is the King of Hyrule and the bond between Link and him is displayed beautifully at the end of the game in a very sad and tender moment.
Just to name a few examples.
In TP I was left wondering "Why should I care about these characters?". Outside of Midna, no other character really 'connected' with Link as they did in Wind Waker.
Which is a shame because Link conveyed emotion in TP better than any previous Zelda game.
If there is one thing I want to see in the next Zelda game for Wii (outside of full motion controls for the sword) is a really heavy emphasis on character relations with our main character. Make us fall in love with the characters, make us CARE if such and such girl gets taken away, and here's a shocker, maybe even kill someone off. Make Links journey as a hero filled with ups and downs.
Hell look at Final Fantasy VII, probably one of the most memorable scenes in video game history is Aeries death. Character relationships with one another when done correctly make us feel for those characters, make us connect to them and when one is taken away as in FFVII, it can be very sad. It adds so much more to the game and truly lets it become an epic adventure.
That's another reason why I feel ALttP is the overall best Zelda game. Links uncle is KILLED while going to save princess Zelda. Sure we didn't know him all that much and it happened right in the beginning of the game but it was something. It was a reason for Link to go off and go on the journey. The 'relations' in ALttP (while not all that deep) made for a great ending as well as Link demonstrates how using the power of the Triforce for good could set all the things wrong with Hyrule right. He helps all those who somewhat helped him on his way and was truly a fantastic ending to an epic adventure.
Bring back good character relationships in the Zelda series Nintendo and it will help to make your already great Zelda games all the more epic.
Post by: Mashiro on July 07, 2007, 03:49:33 PM
No worries Mantidor I am often over looked
Thinking back on it I may be wrong with the battle cues, it's been a while since I played TP. I think I made an error.
It may have been that the musical CHANGES that occur during the gameplay could not have been done with traditional orchestrated music and such midi style music was used.
Example: While riding through Hyrule field the over world theme plays. Now an enemy bird approaches behind you. The music begins to shift into a darker theme and an enemy theme begins to overlay the pre-existing track.
I think that was a primary reason for not having a full orchestrated track. Though also thinking back on that scenario I do remember hitting the birds and I could remember the music having added "beats" for the attacks done on the bird. Not as prevalent as in WW but I thought they were there. . .
I'll test this out as soon as I can free up the TV my Wii is connected to =).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update: Yeah I guess they aren't there. My mistake.
So I guess the "reasoning" behind lack of orchestrated music was for those musical shifts at certain points . . . I guess. I'll try to find a source on that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update: Well I stand corrected. I was wrong as to the "why there is no orchestrated music in TP" so I apologize for my misgiving of information. In an interview with Koji Kondo on IGN we get the real answer:
Quote
IGN: Many fans were expecting the Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess to support a fully-orchestrated score. When we talked with Aonuma just a few minutes ago he mentioned that the lack of orchestration was something that you were deeply let down by. Was it limited by a budget or time constraint, or was it something Nintendo wasn't interested in?
Kondo: As far as Twilight Princess goes, of course those decisions took place. In the end it was not about the time or budget; we had the time and the budget, and it wasn't a Nintendo philosophical stance that "we're not going to do this". Basically while we were working on the game and creating the music, we never really felt that this was a place that needed a full orchestra. We never got the feeling that "Oh this would be a place that could make more of an impact with a full orchestra". We just didn't see the need for it this time.
If you power the game up and let it sit there's a fully-orchestrated piece there, so we aren't against doing it, no.
There you have it. Real shame. Maybe in the next game there will be a full orchestrated sound track.
Post by: mantidor on July 07, 2007, 06:43:39 PM
The change in the music isn't there as you said, and its actually of less quality than even OoT, in the N64 game for instance the overworld theme didn't drastically change when an enemy aproach, it became faster and more menacing but with the same rythm, the transition was smooth. However in TP it simply fades out the overworld theme and fades in the enemy theme, disappointing.
Post by: Chasefox on July 07, 2007, 06:58:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
As a person who loves Zelda but actually disliked OoT (yes I disliked it . . . sorry it wasn't as great as I thought everyone said it was), I liked TP better.
I think the STORY to OoT was more well conceived than TP but OoT's biggest issue was its gameplay. While it was ground breaking and revolutionary and original (lock on targeting and such), I just felt it wasn't perfected enough and I found myself not really getting "pulled in" to the OoT experience.
I am one of the few people out there who will probably openly admit to not really enjoying OoT (cept for the ending, the whole Gannon fight was awesome). I think Wind Waker and TP are better than OoT simply for the fact that I got into those games more, but that's just one persons perspective on it.
To this day, though, no Zelda game is greater than ALttP in my eyes. Still all around the best Zelda game I've played.
Here Here, to ALttP!!! Favorite game ever since I was a child...OoT was great for me though, and Wind Waker great also...but nothing beats the art design for me of TP...the levels were just gorgeous to me...especially the first time those Iron Boots came into play...just my two cents...
Post by: ShyGuy on July 07, 2007, 08:48:07 PM
Iwata asks: Miyamoto Aonuma Part 1
Iwata asks: Miyamoto Aonuma Part 2
Iwata asks: Miyamoto Aonuma Part 3
Iwata asks: Miyamoto Aonuma Part 4
Iwata asks: Miyamoto Aonuma Part 5
Post by: Kairon on July 07, 2007, 09:19:53 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 07, 2007, 09:21:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
He was fairly involved, but in my opinion, not enough. He was always at a distance and would always be nudging the team gently to fix this, or fix that, in a continuing process that, if it had gone on longer, would probably have resulted in a more cohesive game. Sure, Miyamoto continually helped them... but the interviews suggest that he rarely, if ever, got his hands dirty.
Don't mind Kairon he hates Aonuma and will NEVER like him. You know I'm right.
Post by: Kairon on July 07, 2007, 09:23:30 PM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 08, 2007, 01:37:49 AM
"I have to confess I often skim through Gamebasher posts because they are TOO wordy, I'm honestly sorry and I will try to not do it. However saying things like this force me to give you BAD points:"
Too wordy? I am merely using a lot of words needed for me to express the perceived faults with TLP. It´s no walk in the park to dissect the pros and cons of a game.
"No, no, no, Zelda has NEVER seen orchestrated music, is a shame, it was partially excusable in OoT, MM and the WW since the music was dynamic. TP was a step back in that area after the wonderful use of dynamic music along with the sword slashes in tWW, as wonderful as it was, it was still very basic and should have been expanded in TP. Here I think their promise of orchestrated music was the problem, they left out the dinamic music expecting orchestrated and ended up with neither, TP dinamic music is barely on par with OoT."
Agree. The OOT music was the best, most lovingly beautifull soundtrack I have ever heard. The reason why I wrote that it was orchestrated was because there was a record with that same music done by an orchestra which once could be ordered on the internet. So I naturally assumed that that music was the same as in the game. In other words - orchestrated. But they apparently created that orchestrated version after the game itself, in a separate event. And yes, I do hope too they will be able to create a fully orchestrated soundtrack in the next Zelda Wii game.
,
"Also, dont forget Aonuma was also involved in OoT, the masters of that game were at work in all they other sequels, I have no doubt about it."
Aonuma was not the master behind OOT, Miyamoto was. Aonuma was an apprentice who worked WITH Miyamoto. There is a difference.
"I think tWW didn't do as well over there either, the problem isn't TP, is the franchise in general, I don't care, it just shows the awful japanese taste in games :P."
Mantidor, you should not forget that Japan is Nintendo´s hometerritory. So I don´t think it wise to call their taste awefull! They know it when a game is great, and when not. And I don´t think I am off the mark if I say that it would have been them first of all in the worlds population of gamers who helped Nintendo and Miyamoto to precisely determine which way Zelda games should be, to be successfull, before that game series ever came over here. It started there, and came over here. So that would give them a lot more to say than you´re implying in your post.
"The problem with TP is simple, they had in mind to make a game for western fans after all the issues in the gaming community with the previous 3D zelda games, and that will never produce a game that has as much impact as OoT had, the have to THROW things out of the window to make that happen. Another lesson in "be careful what you wish for", because Zelda fanboys got what they asked, TP is the perfect OoT^2, but is just that.
Of course ( and I'm sure you knew this was coming ) splitting development for two different control methods didn't help."
Mantidor, I didn´t quite understand what you meant here? You mean we shoud be carefull what we wish for, as Nintendo´s developement team is already tired of hearing complaints of this nature and that nature? If so, that is something I can certainly understand.
"Also, I approve all this Majora's Mask love Let Aonuma alone and we will have an AWESOME new wii Zelda game, just look at Phantom Hourglass."
You know what? I think Nintendo should look back at what made OOT so popular, and why it sold as much as it did. And only do that, never again listening to all of that talk coming from us. It would make them crazy, if they let us split them into two camps of for or against various ways of game implementations for Zelda. So far, I don´t think that TLP has sold as much as OOT. But it might.
Mashiro, wrote:
"If there is one thing I want to see in the next Zelda game for Wii (outside of full motion controls for the sword) is a really heavy emphasis on character relations with our main character. Make us fall in love with the characters, make us CARE if such and such girl gets taken away, and here's a shocker, maybe even kill someone off. Make Links journey as a hero filled with ups and downs."
I agree. THAT is one of the main reasons why I love OOT above all other Zelda games ever made. Saria in the woods for instance. Remember the cutscene where she gives the Ocarina to Link, on the bridge? Remember the WAY the sound was made, how Link´s footsteps echoed into the woods beneath the bridge, the look in Saria´s eyes before they parted. I had tears in my eyes then. And then came Hyrule field, where another great friend connected with Link - the Great Owl (I forgot his name) - and followed him throughout the adventure. So, yes I totally agree in that, but wouldn´t want to see Link kill any of his friends. That would take the whole beauty of the story away.
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 01:57:06 AM
Sadly, as much as you loved many moments in OoT I found myself not nearly as engaged.
I know I'm an extremely rare person who wasn't all that "wowed" by OoT. Though I attribute this to being SO hyped up about the game that (at the time I was probably the most nerdy Nintendo fanboy around) it could never live up to my expectations. It didn't and I think it's what ruined my OoT experience. Since then I have tried to never be too hyped about any particular thing or else I risk that same let down feeling.
Post by: Sarail on July 08, 2007, 03:04:25 AM
First off, let me say that Majora's Mask was my favorite Zelda game of all time with A Link to the Past as my second favorite. Majora's Mask has had THE best storyline of any Zelda game to date, and it's characters were brought to life (finally) because of a particular Dan Owsen not doing the translation that time around as he did for the travesty that was Ocarina of Time's characters... ugh.
Twilight Princess is now my favorite Zelda game of all time. The reason being that the game is extremely epic in scope alone. The vast worlds, incredible music, lovable (and hateful) characters, and much MUCH deeper gameplay are all of the reasons for its epic scope. True, there were a couple of dungeons that seemed a bit rushed (the Temple of Time being one -- which originally was supposed to be in Ocarina of Time). But the puzzles involved in each dungeon this time around were all a bit more complex when compared to puzzles in Ocarina of Time. Now, I still fully believe Majora's Mask has the best puzzle dungeons, but Twilight Princess is a VERY close second. And finally, the game just oozes with depth -- whether it be the transformation ability that Link has to play with TWO different styles of attacking (wolf and human forms) or even the skill sets that Link has the ability to learn -- all are amazing additions to the 3D Zelda formula. And in my opinion... having a great storyline, wonderful characters and interaction, complex dungeons puzzles, amazing graphical upgrade (over OoT anyway), very inspired level-designed music, and the tried-and-true Zelda gameplay intact makes this THE best Zelda game of all time. Hands down.
Post by: mantidor on July 08, 2007, 03:12:42 AM
"Too wordy? I am merely using a lot of words needed for me to express the perceived faults with TLP."
I thought that was what wordy meant
"Aonuma was not the master behind OOT, Miyamoto was. Aonuma was an apprentice who worked WITH Miyamoto. There is a difference."
I said masters, as in the whole team.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 08, 2007, 04:26:55 AM
It´s fine enough with me that the name´s are back from O.o.T. But since Zelda was supposed to reflect something eternal, why can´t we go back to having Kakariko Village right ON Death Mountain as it was in O.o.T., and Lake Hylia where it used to be in that same game? Just because some decades pass (I talk about the timeline in TLP, not WW), it wouldn´t move the lake or the village would it?
In WW the whole land was flooded at the time of the beginning of that story, which I can follow. But if they are to stick to the timeline, they had better explain to us why Hyrule isn´t the same after O.o.T. in TLP. TLP is after O.o.T. and before WW. I think it would be in place if Nintendo could stick to keeping the MAPS the SAME, and the adventures ever changing. It is fine to upgrade the landscape in terms of graphics, and thus keep us returning to that familiar Hyrule many of us loved when playing in even greater high-resolution glory, but it would still FEEL the old same familiar Hyrule from the first 3D Zelda O.o.T. and thus keep us attached to it in that way. I don´t like this whole concept of darting all over a virtual world where I feel no attachment at all. Hell, I feel attached to my country in real-life for a REASON, don´t I?
Things, ways, customs, sights, sounds and memories of it all. Were some sky god to suddenly whisk it all away, and say to me "Now we move to Tingle-land, where you will live there, and go here to do this and that" I would be upset! I am attached to familiar places. Instead of always changing Hyrule, they should instead expand on the map, opening up new lands to explore BEYOND Hyrule, leaving Hyrule itself right where it is from O.o.T. The beauty of a game world is to keep your home in it the same, allowing you to always return to that home after extensive adventures.
I simply can´t stand the differences seen always in Hyrule from one Zelda game to the next. Hyrule lies in one place, looks one way. Jumping back and forth in time is what they like to do with Zelda, and that is their right to do so as developers. But Hyrule should remain in one place, and look the same. They have to stay happy and motivated, as it is them who have to do all of the hard work to get the games made. But I would like to see a more real-life approach to where Hyrule is situated on maps, and a better implementation of story elements, in particular a better narrrative experience, which involves the player in the way Hyrule has changed over the years. I think they could "upend the teatable" with regard to the Zelda story progression formula, by starting to voice acting the characters. It would save them all of the text, and that would save time since you speak up to 6 times faster than you write!
If Miyamoto, Aonuma, and the remaining team responsible for Zelda developement, could listen to this it could help to keep the Zelda game world more familiar to the gamers with each new sequel. It is important that there is a focus on what the gamers expect from Zelda, and here I am not talking about 1000 different views that would tear them apart trying to satisfy too many hopefull wishes but about what we can all agree on is right for the franchise. That in turn would require a survey with question given to selected players, which would illuminate what it is that is in general expected.
So I have now touched on the attachment-aspect to why I love O.o.T. above all other Zelda games made since.
Am I the only gamer who wants Hyrule to look the same with each new game? The only gamer who feels confused and bewildered when Links, and Princess Zelda´s home keeps on moving by the hand of developers?
Post by: ShyGuy on July 08, 2007, 05:59:15 AM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 08, 2007, 06:30:41 AM
What do you mean by "flipping the map", Shyguy?
Post by: Smoke39 on July 08, 2007, 06:38:43 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2007, 07:20:20 AM
bah... Just an old crony it seems.
Post by: EasyCure on July 08, 2007, 07:32:18 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 08:05:48 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 08, 2007, 08:10:01 AM
I think the reason for the differences is that Twilight Princes made the whole world bigger, so the distances between things is different.
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 08:45:12 AM
Anyway lets change up the discussion a bit . . . list in order your favorite to least favorite Zelda games:
ALttP => TP => WW =>LoZ => OoT => Links Awakening => ZII
I never played MM but all this positive talk about the game makes me hope it comes out on VC soon =P
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 08, 2007, 08:48:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Makes sense =)
Anyway lets change up the discussion a bit . . . list in order your favorite to least favorite Zelda games:
ALttP => TP => WW =>LoZ => OoT => Links Awakening => ZII
I never played MM but all this positive talk about the game makes me hope it comes out on VC soon =P
ALttP => TP => WW =>OOT => LoZ => Links Awakening => Majora's Mask => Minish Cap => Oracle => => => => =>ZII
Post by: Guitar Smasher on July 08, 2007, 09:06:33 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 08, 2007, 09:09:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher
I think keeping the same map game to game would be a horrible choice. Doesn't everyone agree that a good part of Zelda's magic is the pure sense of adventure and discovery? Frankly, if OoT had been a remake of a previous map, we wouldn't be saying how good it was.
Good point. Personally I think they should start expanding beyond the boundaries of Hyrule in future games.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 08, 2007, 09:50:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Anyway lets change up the discussion a bit . . . list in order your favorite to least favorite Zelda games:
MM
TP/OoT
LA/WW
LttP/MC
LoZ
Post by: LuigiHann on July 08, 2007, 10:25:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher
I think keeping the same map game to game would be a horrible choice. Doesn't everyone agree that a good part of Zelda's magic is the pure sense of adventure and discovery? Frankly, if OoT had been a remake of a previous map, we wouldn't be saying how good it was.
Good point. Personally I think they should start expanding beyond the boundaries of Hyrule in future games.
My hope was actually that they'd put Hyrule from OoT in the center of the map, and expand around it. That would combine continuity and nostalgia with a more expansive and original world.
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 10:31:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher
I think keeping the same map game to game would be a horrible choice. Doesn't everyone agree that a good part of Zelda's magic is the pure sense of adventure and discovery? Frankly, if OoT had been a remake of a previous map, we wouldn't be saying how good it was.
Good point. Personally I think they should start expanding beyond the boundaries of Hyrule in future games.
My hope was actually that they'd put Hyrule from OoT in the center of the map, and expand around it. That would combine continuity and nostalgia with a more expansive and original world.
Reminds me of Super Metroid. To this day I still would say that this game (Super Metroid) did the best job of returning the player to a previous game setting and massively expanding upon it.
Post by: Kairon on July 08, 2007, 01:51:15 PM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 08, 2007, 11:28:12 PM
What made me feel so great about the way, say, Hyrule Filed was looking, and laid out, was the sense of vast distance which is somewhat inhibited in this version of TLP Hyrule Field. There is too many tree´s, and you can´t look over the sides of the cliffs to see what´s down there, and there is no houses with people in them to relate to. You had the farm, and the single light in that window to look at during night time in O.o.T. which gave me a sense of belonging, a sense of not emptiness but of warmth. The sense of relationships you had with the characters you met in O.o.T. is simply not there in TLP.
The way this all looks, it makes me convinced that there has been a problem with getting the lands that 3D modelling team at Nintendo created for the game filled out properly with sights and sounds. Something you can also understand if you read the interviews linked to above in this thread. Miyamoto expressed the nature of this problem himself. All I see is those Bokoblins (isn´t that heir name) and trees. That´s all Hyrule Field is about this time around. I miss the farm, and that postman runnin around (he ONLY comes at gates to Castle Town this time, and in a sequence which is the same each and every time. No room for randomness here, regrettably). I miss more rolling hills, and those skeletons coming at night. It is all too barren, too empty, too depressing.
So I think that Nintendo should control the efforts of their 3D modelling team next time, so they can properly catch up with regard to filling out the lands they create.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 12:13:03 AM
* "full on monet" : (as defined in the movie Clueless)
Quote
Cher Horowitz: You see, it's like the painting see, from far away it's ok, but up close it's a big ol' mess.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2007, 02:51:38 AM
The beginning of the game yes is heavier on story, but it is also when you have less items and options to explore. The game really opens up to allow you to play however you like once you have the items to really enjoy that. It is then that the story elements take a backseat for awhile.
But this isn't anything new in Zelda games. Almost every Zelda game sets up the story at the very beginning of the game and then just lets you loose in the world. In Twilight Princess I think the writers felt that is kinda cruel, and gave you much more story and atmosphere early on. It worked brilliantly, because by the time I could explore the entire world, I had several items I would want to use in the world.
I have wanted to play OoT again, but I don't want to go through all the hassles in that game to get to the dungeons. And several of the earlier dungeons just aren't as enjoyable to play as the later ones...making the game harder to revisit.
My personal favorite Zelda is Link to the Past. The reason isn't the same reason I love Twilight Princess so much. Twilight Princess is the most epic in scale Zelda game created. It may not be perfect, but it creates a living world with an intriguing story within that world better than any other Zelda. Link to the Past doesn't do that as well. But Link to the Past is accessable. You can begin to start playing that game, and explore and start betting dungeons without very many wierd side quests or time consuming item searches or what not. Link to the Past begs to be played multiple times and beaten again and again. Where Twilight Princess and OoT are going to be one or two play throughs at most for the average gamer.
And sense that is true, I got much more enjoyment out of the story and gameplay from Twilight Princess than OoT. Just my personal opinion.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2007, 03:37:57 AM
Phantom Hourglass is near the top for me, as well...Such an amazing game so far...
Post by: EasyCure on July 09, 2007, 04:10:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
There's a disturbing lack of true Zelda fans in this thread! (Twilight Princess hate + lack of Link's Awakening as best Zelda game = Aha, non-fans)
Phantom Hourglass is near the top for me, as well...Such an amazing game so far...
I'm with bill on this one.
Links Awakening to me is more accessible since it polished up the sidequest and introduced the trading events found in the later games. The power ups found in it also made it almost arcade-like in feel because you could get one of then that boosted your power (if memory serves me well it was the conch shell) and the game would turn into a beat em up. At least thats how i felt when playing but maybe its cuz i loved sending things flying so much and attacked more because of it when i had that power up.
i still prefer ALttP because the difficulty and puzzles were tougher, at least they were when i first played then both.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2007, 04:27:09 AM
Post by: EasyCure on July 09, 2007, 04:32:56 AM
sigh i can't sadly, i lost my copy a long long time ago. original = gone, DX version = gone.
can't find them in any used sections and i hate buying things online. thats why i really hope nintendo puts up gameboy/gameboy color games on the VC service (especially if you can transfer tham to DS to get that handheld feel to add to nostalgia). i understand the arguments against putting up GBA games because the GBA still sells well etc etc. but there are some games out there for it that are hard to come by (im looking at you MMZ 1,2 and 3)
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 07:18:52 AM
Everyones entitled to their opinion. Example, Gamebasher loves OoT, I really didn't like OoT all that much, especially not as much as the later 3D Zelda titles.
And sure I may nit-pick at TP but hey it's still my second favorite Zelda game of all time =)
Post by: stevey on July 09, 2007, 09:12:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher
I think keeping the same map game to game would be a horrible choice. Doesn't everyone agree that a good part of Zelda's magic is the pure sense of adventure and discovery? Frankly, if OoT had been a remake of a previous map, we wouldn't be saying how good it was.
But it did... In ALttP Kakariko village is next to Death Mountain. Death mountain is to the north of Zora river, that flow into Lake Hyrule. Next to Lake Hyrule there is the Desert, and in between them is Hyrule Filed. Hyrule Filed is in the center(bottom) of the map with the castle to the north it just like OoT.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 09:50:23 AM
Quote
In ALttP Kakariko village is next to Death Mountain.
In ALttP Kakariko village is directly west of Hyrule, to the north of it is The Lost Woods and to the east of The Lost Woods there is the small area with the wood cutter brothers and to the east of that is death mountain.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 09, 2007, 09:57:32 AM
Hell, you will not see that there is any difference in where Master Chief comes from, where his home his, how it looks, no deviation in that story from Halo 1, 2 and 3 (the latter hasn´t been released yet, but I doubt Bungie would suddenly claim he comes from Planet Mars instead of Planet Earth). Same with Metroid. Samus is Samus, and she continues to originate from where she always has originated - Planet K2-L next to Planet Zebes. But Link´s home in Hyrule keeps moving around. Must be annoying to be Link. Yes, I know that Samus, and Master Chiefs specific houses on Earth has never been shown, but it matters little to me. Their story is always the same in the way it starts.
What I would like to see in future Zelda games is some more consistency with regard to where Link lives and comes from. In O.o.T. he came from Kokkiri Forest where his Hylian mother had delivered him before she died. Awesome storytelling there, hugely impressive cutscenes. In Majora´s mask it was the same, allthough we didn´t see that as the game started with him riding Epona in the forest before he is attacked by skull kid. Just as awesome storytelling. Neat cutscenes. In WW he was from an island which we later learn sits on an ocean which has flooded Hyrule beneath it. In TLP you only learn that he is a young farm boy from Ordon Village and that is it. I prefer my home in one specific place all of the time. I do think that Link do too, and that his home should thus always be in Kokkiri Forest.
Just generates too much confusion in me when he is moved around like that. You can´t just first move a game characters home from a beautifull forest to an island world, and then back to some village that lies in a new Hyrule, that was supposed to overshadow the Hyrule seen in the first 3D Zelda namely O.o.T. The Hyrule field in TLP is the most barren and depressing field I have ever seen. And that horse is obsolete, once you get to the warping ability. So why keep Epona in there at all.
Whichever way they choose to work on Zelda´s in the future they had better keep in mind that it´s not themselves but gamers who will play the endresults. So for all of their ideas, I would advise them to create a system which take note of gamer feedback on the games they ship to retail, so they know what a majority wants (and not argue with the gamers with arrogant remarks like they did when people at E3 and in many other places gave them the thumbs down after we learned to our grief that they had made Link into a girlish cartoon character) and keep a better cooperation and timing between themselves and their 3D team plus other teams that work with them on the games they make.
The wait for a new, and hopefully satisfying Zelda, and when it finally comes out after years of waiting - a huge dissapointment (I dumped WW after trying it out for weeks, and might do the same with TLP) is unacceptable to me and I think many others out there. People have tastes and likes and dislikes, Nintendo! Is it YOU or THEM who should tell what these are? More like them, right!!
I am indeed a fan of Zelda, but I started playing the series with O.o.T, and to me that is still the best 3D game I have ever played. The sales numbers for the game should hint at the fact that I am not the only one who loved that game for it´s design. To date I think that O.o.T. is that game which has sold the most copies of any home console Zelda game AND it was the first Zelda game to hit the VC on Wii which speaks for itself. People loved it, Nintendo knows it. So why can´t they just give us more of the same if it sold so well the first time around?
Because Nintendo have to experiment, and mess around with the formula time and again? Or because Miyamoto isn´t directing the Zelda´s anymore? If you ask me, that is kind of nerve wracking to wait years for something more of the tried and tested, only to get something so different you can´t recognize it anymore!!!! If they mess up on the next Zelda again I think I drop the series. I have had it with being dragged around their testing arena like some guinea pig or clown. Really mean that. No offense intended on those who had no trouble with the series wildly alternating directions.
That makes my enthusiasm for Zelda less with each new game they release to market. And I might add, that I think that is the same with many Japanese gamers.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 10:05:13 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 10:19:49 AM
For starters, they DO follow the same formula of what made the game popular. They pretty much always have in the main storyline of the series (see: exploration, dungeons, news weapons to help you advance through the game, etc.) the only exception being Zelda II which was more of a side scrolling RPG.
The reason Links location, story line and all that stuff changes is because it isn't the same Link and if you stop to thing the story would be horribly boring if they kept it the SAME Link and make little to no sense. Link would have beaten Gannon in LoZ, then he would beat him again in ALttP, then again in OoT . . . and again in WW and yet again in TP.
The story would be rather stale and repetitious and actually make less sense than having it as a new Link from time to time. It wouldn't make sense if the Link from LoZ was the same as a LttP. How did the world change so much? How is Link still so young if it took say a long time for Hyrule to build up like that? Same with OoT story, how would Link be a kid again if he was the same Link from LoZ.
The aspect of it being a different Link for most games (aside from the direct sequels of course) is something I enjoy.
See it's hard to say "Nintendo needs to listen to their fans and do that and make games based of of that!" because everyone has different views on what makes a game GOOD. I REALLY didn't like OoT and it's one of the few Zelda games I only played through once, so if they did just keep duplicating OoT to a T I would be out of the Zelda series at this point.
The point is, the Zelda series has ALWAYS been based on a changing Hyrule. In fact, no game in the Zelda series revisits the same locations as the previous one. The same names yes but never truly the same place. I like it that way. If WW and OoT was based on the same Hyrule I would be bored out of my skull already. The ever changing world of Zelda is what makes me look forward to games because I know it will be new with locations that are based on the previous games but still they are different.
Keeping a winning formula doesn't always work. See: Mario Sunshine. Was it good? Yeah. Was it boring to have a nearly identical experience to Mario 64 except with less polish? Yes. I'd rather they keep changing things up and keep working to advance the series then just stick with the same old designs.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 10:45:43 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 09, 2007, 10:46:23 AM
Toilet Princess ended with 10 hours of disappointing fanboy fluff.
What's interesting is many "hardcore nintendo gamers" go thru the 20-30 hours of disappoint that Toilet Princess is, yet not complete a good, solid, satisfying 20 hour game like Metroid Prime 2.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 10:47:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
What people fail to realize about Zelda and it's supposed "story" is that the Legend of Zelda is exactly that, a LEGEND, a timeless epic, a truth that crosses boundaries of geography, of people, of time, of circumstance. This is why Link is always reborn, why Zelda is always reborn, why there's always a great evil, why it isn't a love story but a DESTINY. It's an epic tale in the classic sense of the word, reincarnated again and again in different people and different times, but ALWAYS the same legend, ALWAYS with the same core, ALWAYS the same struggle between good and evil.
That pretty much sums up the way it is. Well said Karion.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 10:49:37 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 10:57:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Another thing people have to realize is that Zelda isn't a hardcore game. Zelda is mind-blowingly easy and, in many cases, predictable. Zelda is, above all, an attempt by Miyamoto to manifest the feelings he had when he was younger, feelings of adventures, of discovery, and of stumbling upon limestone caverns when he was out on a family picnic.
For some reason I don't think of any the Zelda's (well maybe Wind Waker) as mind-blowingly easy especially the 2D ones!
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 11:01:36 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 11:01:52 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 11:04:18 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 11:09:52 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 11:32:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Yeah I mean I don't think any of the later titles are really all that hardcore insanely hard but yeah it isn't supremely easy. It usually has the right balance of difficulty and fun which is why I enjoy the games so much.
One thing I never understood why is a game hardcore if it is hard, must mean Superman 64 is super hardcore because it was so poorly designed it was hard
. Personally I find Zelda games to be hardcore in that they are lengthy adventures that require a bit of puzzle solving along with alot of exploration. I definately agree, I think the Zelda games have a good balance in difficulty, they aren't overly hard but not just anyone can finish them either.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 11:38:00 AM
I guess I am using it in the following way: A contra game is hardcore when compared to say Mega Man X which is somewhat challenging yet fun and not overly difficult to the extent of driving you insane.
=)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 11:40:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Well hardcore in the sense that the game doesn't just appeal to those whom are well...hardcore. You don't need to be an insane puzzle wizard to complete a Zelda game for example.
I guess I am using it in the following way: A contra game is hardcore when compared to say Mega Man X which is somewhat challenging yet fun and not overly difficult to the extent of driving you insane.
=)
True, I guess it all depends how you define it which we all seem to define differently. Personally if I were to take your definition, I think Zelda would fall between "Hardcore" and "Mainstream". Then again Superman 64 must be pretty too, it is insanely difficult and you need to be pretty hardcore to play LOL.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 11:42:23 AM
Edit: And Lol @ superman 64
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 11:49:44 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2007, 11:54:30 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 11:59:01 AM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 09, 2007, 01:56:01 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 01:58:35 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 02:32:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Personally, I'm amazed at how some people, and even some media outlets, can absolutely buy into the hype that this'd be "the best Zelda evar." It was good, don't get me wrong, but TP is in my opinion nowhere near such an accomplishment.
Key word being "opinion". Personally I think TP is the best 3D Zelda.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 02:34:02 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 02:44:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Ah, but can you back that up with specific instances of excellence?
The creative and fun boss battles, the engaging story, the unique art direction and character designs, the solid pace. Lots of exploration to do, creative and fun horseback battles, emotionally charged character and dialogue. Midna is the best companion out of the Zelda series, and the unique and well implemented wolf transformation sequences.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 02:52:59 PM
TP had a lot of greatness to it even if it lacked in some areas. Here's my breakdown:
Graphics: Bar-none the greatest looking Zelda game ever created. Beautifully rich designs covering all of Hyrule bringing the world to life more so than any of its previous 3D counter parts. It has the best 3D Link design, it gave birth to great character designs showcasing human emotions more and better than any Zelda before it. Elemental effects and particle effects are all used wisely too and bring the game together in the graphical department. All in all, a top quality AA title that is the new benchmark for how Zelda games will and should look.
Gameplay: Absolutely amazing. The best gameplay in the Zelda 3D series. It takes the refinement of WW and adds on to it creating a well balanced and perfectly handled game. The upgrades and new weapons are also a blast. From the boots that let you cling to walls, to the double hook shot, the weapons in this Zelda game add a lot to the gameplay and are greater than the previous 3D Zelda titles.
Sound: Though it lacked full on voice acting, the sounds were still there and followed suit like much of the other Zelda games. No complaints for the sound except for the horrible audio that played through the Wiimote speakers. It's not the game fault that the speakers suck but it certainly doesn't add to the gaming experience.
Music: Ok, so it isn't orchestrated but the music is still beautiful. The new Hyrule field theme is the best from any of the 3D Zelda and adds to the feeling of heroic-ness your character has. Yet there are still those more tender subtle moments that play out beautifully too thanks to a well written sound track and the moments of when you are in the heat of battle often have haunting or fast paced music to accompany the situation. From the awesome emotion you feel from entering Hyrule field for the first time to the chilling echoing, somewhat drawn out, music from Hyrule Castle, the music adds much to the game. However, an orchestrated sound track would have been better for this style game and it's a shame they didn't go that route.
Story: Not the best in the series but it is somewhat interesting none the less. Good but not overly fantastical. Though I will say the two Zelda scenes I will always remember is Links crazy dream segment and Gannondorf killing one of the 7 sages.
The complete packagee, is overall, the best 3D Zelda experience I have had.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 03:05:19 PM
How are TP's character designs (aside from the admittedly awesome Midna) of more worth than OoT's?
How can you claim a solid pace when myself and others have complained that the narrative peters out halfway through, and the game had many early complaints of an 1 or 2 of tutorial-esque gameplay?
How can you say there's plenty of exploration when large swaths of hyrule field, principally the western section in the Wii version, are for all intents and purposes, empty?
How can you point out the horseback battles when it's featured in just two or three sections of the game, is gameplay-wise little different from the motorcycle minigame in FF7, and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the game?
Also, how do you contend the charge that the vast majority of items in TP saw little use outside of their respective dungeons. Did you ever use the ball & chain again, for example? The spinner and dominion rod saw very limited uses in very constrained puzzles outside of their dungeons, as well.
Also, the lack of sufficient breadcrumbing for players to use midna's warp abilities to fix certain puzzles in the game... AND the ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game, so much so that they're trivialized as rewards for quests, and lesswen the enjoyment of exploring when the treasure chest you just opened has something you already have in spades?
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 03:29:58 PM
Q: In what specific ways are the boss battles creative and/or fun? And compared to, say, OoT's?
A: I enjoyed the first horseback fighting battle on the bridge, that was new and fun. The battle with the giant bone creature thing in the sand where you needed to use the spin top item was pretty cool as well and definitely new and different. Fighting a possessed princess Zelda was one of the high points of the game, I really had fun during the whole end Gannon fight.
Q: How are TP's character designs (aside from the admittedly awesome Midna) of more worth than OoT's?
A: The overall designs (I know the system is far more powerful than N64) are just a lot nicer. Even in the artwork for the game, you can tell they spend extra time adding more detail and new elements to the character designs. Links design is a huge leap over what he used to look like (on paper and on screen) and the supporting cast is also filled with a variety of new designs that make the world more interesting. Given, system limitations on the N64 make it hard to compare the two but looking at the artwork behind each series, I say TP received more detail and attention.
Q: How can you claim a solid pace when myself and others have complained that the narrative peters out halfway through, and the game had many early complaints of an 1 or 2 of tutorial-esque gameplay?
A: I personally felt the game paced itself well, while the narration isn't as prevalent while you are searching for the mirror pieces the game itself still had very little down time. You are usually always supposed to be doing something and rarely find yourself wondering around saying "wtf do I do next?". The tutorial-esque part I didn't mind either, sometimes its necessary and far better than reading a manual.
Q: How can you say there's plenty of exploration when large swaths of hyrule field, principally the western section in the Wii version, are for all intents and purposes, empty?
A: I know that's for GoldenPhoenix but the western area is where you do the horse back fighting earlier in the game and it remains that same open field. I think the game has a nice number of locations The Sky, Hyrule Field, Hyrule Castle, The Lake area, the Desert to name a few. Not to mention the awesomely designed area with the master sword which was very much a homage to the ALttP. At least if you look at ALttP's japanese box art and other art pieces of the development.
Q: How can you point out the horseback battles when it's featured in just two or three sections of the game, is gameplay-wise little different from the motorcycle minigame in FF7, and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the game?
A: The Horse Back combat comes into play while you're traveling on (you guessed it) horse back. While it's avoidable outside of the times you MUST fight on horse back, it is still there. Comparing it to the FF7 combat on the motorcycle is a little weak given that, for the horse battle segments, you are often chasing down your enemy and not just riding by the dodging and slashing away as they pass you. It's more of a pursuit and defeat system and it's not on rails, you control where you go. You can shoot your bow as well adding to it. It was a lot of fun turning on horse back and shooting enemies approaching behind me =).
Q: Also, how do you contend the charge that the vast majority of items in TP saw little use outside of their respective dungeons. Did you ever use the ball & chain again, for example? The spinner and dominion rod saw very limited uses in very constrained puzzles outside of their dungeons, as well.
A: In all Zelda titles there are items you just don't use except in certain situations. Example: The invisible cloak from ALttP as well as the magical block that would explode. How about the boomerang in OoT? Never use it unless you are a kid.
Q: Also, the lack of sufficient breadcrumbing for players to use midna's warp abilities to fix certain puzzles in the game... AND the ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game, so much so that they're trivialized as rewards for quests, and lesswen the enjoyment of exploring when the treasure chest you just opened has something you already have in spades?
A: I dunno none of those things really bugged me all too much, just personal tastes I guess vary.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 03:43:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
More opinions. In what specific ways are the boss battles creative and/or fun? And compared to, say, OoT's?
How are TP's character designs (aside from the admittedly awesome Midna) of more worth than OoT's?
How can you claim a solid pace when myself and others have complained that the narrative peters out halfway through, and the game had many early complaints of an 1 or 2 of tutorial-esque gameplay?
How can you say there's plenty of exploration when large swaths of hyrule field, principally the western section in the Wii version, are for all intents and purposes, empty?
How can you point out the horseback battles when it's featured in just two or three sections of the game, is gameplay-wise little different from the motorcycle minigame in FF7, and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the game?
Also, how do you contend the charge that the vast majority of items in TP saw little use outside of their respective dungeons. Did you ever use the ball & chain again, for example? The spinner and dominion rod saw very limited uses in very constrained puzzles outside of their dungeons, as well.
Also, the lack of sufficient breadcrumbing for players to use midna's warp abilities to fix certain puzzles in the game... AND the ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game, so much so that they're trivialized as rewards for quests, and lesswen the enjoyment of exploring when the treasure chest you just opened has something you already have in spades?
Someone needs to get off the haterade, BTW if you want to quote others regarding Zelda, then you can't forget to include the high amount of praise the game has received from the vast majority of people. But I will take your points one by one
1. The character designs of the creatures from the Twilight realm and even the spirit beings were brilliant and had a very anime vibe. The game shared many character designs from OOT (in fact most if not all) and yet added so much more artistically. This may not be character design but some of my most memorable Zelda moments came from this game, including the finding of the master sword, the moment that sets things in motions where Link's girlfriend is kidnapped, and well, ALOT of things were memorable. I remember having my breath being taken away in the desert area.
2. Funny someone is complaining about exploration in TP when OOT had one of the biggest, most pointlessly empty segments (hyrule field) in gaming. TP there is so much to explore and do even if there are some areas that may be "empty" but the vast world offered so much to find!
3. Gee horseback battles forgotten for the rest of the game? Perhaps you should think that one over, I seem recall a fairly big one at the end of the game!
4. Pacing does not always have to be narrative, those are two different things (Zelda OOT lacked much narrative, so was the pacing poor?. The 1 to 2 hr tutorial thing is merely opinion, personally I thought it set you up wonderfully for the game, similar to what occurs in Kingdom Hearts 2.
5. I may need to go back and play OOT but that is almost a Zelda hallmark for items seeing little use after the dungeon they were found in. This was one area where the game struggle dwith but at least the items were alot more exciting than Zelda: OOTs even if they should have been used more
6. Rupee complaints? You have to be kidding me, I have NEVER had trouble getting rubies in any Zelda game EVER. They have always been easy to get with a few minutes playing, at least TP forced you to get alot though for some of the side items.
7. Not sure what you mean by bread-crumbing.
8. Boss battles: I found the boss of the dungeon in the desert to be a thrilling and yes unique fight not seen in a Zelda game. Not to mention I found the final battle to be more diverse and fun than any Zelda game previous to it (Heck it took elements from OOTs and Wind Wakers final battles, and added more, how is that bad?) The wind boss was a blast to fight as well. Heck I enjoyed every boss besides the ice boss, and even though they weren't what you would call hard (Heck I wouldn't even call OOT's boss battles hard) they were fun.
Anyway Zelda: TP did what OOT did but added so much more, it was longer game, more to explore, unique items (some of which were under utilized).
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 03:50:22 PM
Edit: One of the best things about the first time you get the master sword is that the whole vibe is very reminiscent of ALttP and the art cues definitely come from that game. While finding the master sword in WW was awesome as well (past hyrule, the black and white overlay, the awesome haunting music of hyrule castle), this time around it had a much more classic "sword in the stone"-esc feel to it. A legendary sword hidden in a forest riddle by decaying ruins of a past civilization yet surrounded by natural beauty. Truly a beautiful artistic moment for the game.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 09, 2007, 04:04:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Did you ever use the ball & chain again, for example?
What?! I had it like permanently equipped! It had the power of a bomb! Like you know those skeleton guys whose remains you have to explode to get rid of them? You could kill them with one throw of the ball and chain: break them apart on the way out, destroy their remains when reeling it back in. And you could smash bombable rocks with it. And other stuff. It was awesome. Jerk.
Everything else except for maybe the clawshot was kinda irrelevant, though.
Post by: IceCold on July 09, 2007, 04:05:25 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 04:08:21 PM
Post by: stevey on July 09, 2007, 04:13:52 PM
Quote
Fighting a possessed princess Zelda was one of the high points of the game,
I found it the most disappointing moment of the game. It would have be the most awesomest boss battle ever if it wasn't a complete rip off Shadow Ganon Boss fight which has been done 4-9~(or how ever times he needed to be fought in WW) times already... And I've waited for years just for that boss battle to
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 04:17:18 PM
On the flip side The beast Gannon fight music was horrible and made the fight less enjoyable.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2007, 04:21:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
The boss fight with the spinner was amazingly fun..
Truth...Probably my fav 3D...Phantom Hourglass may have topped it, wink wink Zelda boss battle ever...
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 04:50:21 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 04:52:30 PM
On a random side note: I love this forum community. It is much more fun than the WoW forums.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 04:58:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
On a random side note: I love this forum community. It is much more fun than the WoW forums.
I don't know. There must be some pretty epic flamewars that go down everyday at the WoW forums. And it's like the second coming of christ everytime those blues deign to post with the tiniest bit of information.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 05:09:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: IceCold
The boss fight with the spinner was amazingly fun..
Truth...Probably my fav 3D...Phantom Hourglass may have topped it, wink wink Zelda boss battle ever...
I so want to play Phantom Hourglass, I hear it is amazing!
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 05:14:25 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2007, 05:37:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Nah the WoW forums are frustrating, filled with anger and there is 1 in a billion shot that something constructive is ever said. It's just filled with lots of QQers and haters.
Sounds like the Gonintendo and gamefaq forums, where you have people constantly insulting each other and cussing up a storm because someone misspelled a name or got a location wrong within a game.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 05:53:27 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 05:56:24 PM
Quote
Sounds like the Gonintendo and gamefaq forums, where you have people constantly insulting each other and cussing up a storm because someone misspelled a name or got a location wrong within a game.
Note to self: never goto those forums
Quote
Sad to hear that it's EXACTLY how I left it.
Yep. It's pretty much a wasteland of pointless posts.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 11, 2007, 03:31:41 AM
"I think you're not really directing those at me but I'll answer =)
Q: In what specific ways are the boss battles creative and/or fun? And compared to, say, OoT's?
A: I enjoyed the first horseback fighting battle on the bridge, that was new and fun. The battle with the giant bone creature thing in the sand where you needed to use the spin top item was pretty cool as well and definitely new and different. Fighting a possessed princess Zelda was one of the high points of the game, I really had fun during the whole end Gannon fight."
My opinion:
There is no doubt that Nintendo has improved the fighting-system considerably in TLP. That aside, it is still far from the same feeling I get riding Epona this time around. For instance, I had high expectations for Faron woods. Riding Epona through it from beginning to end would have been nice, with no areas being off-limits. It would have felt unlimited, and thus more free in it´s options for movement within the forest. And they should have animated the trees so we could get the feeling that we moved through a living forest. I loved that scene in the beginning of Majora´s Mask where Link rides on Epona in the Lost Woods. It was beautifully crafted, but you couldn´t play in it. THAT is the kind of forest which I would like to have in future Zelda games. Link is a an Elf, and so he is from the Woods. So why can´t we see more to do in those same woods? Such should always be the same in my opinion. It sort of gives Link and the forest trademark value from a gamers point of value. I truly missed an upgraded Lost Woods!
I loved The Lost Woods in OoT for their deep exploration value. Even though they were just green mazes, as one forum member has pointed out in a post, it was like more exciting to go there. There was a sense of deth in it all. In TLP all I get is the feelig of something that just needs to be travelled through quickly, and be over with. It´s as if Nintendo has tried to recreate the magic of the Lost Woods but have forgotten that with the increase in size and scope plus graphical splendour of these new woods they have not gone and looked at how much they gave the gamer to do in those woods. Zelda is also about the woods theme, isn´t it`? I have not yet found anything to do in Faron Woods. Where is the deep lake to explore of OoT (and MM) that gave me a sense of belonging there. Where is the cave-labyrinth which had you frustrated yet intent of getting through for thirst for exploring the woods? The music in Faron Woods is far from the magical fairy music of OoT, and so the whole touch of a magical forest is gone. Thus is also the desire to stay there or go back there. Riding on Epona through, and AROUND a MM-like forest would be awesome. With updated graphics of course. OoT and MM woods would be the same, as MM starts after the end of OoT. So, an upgraded Lost Woods. Yes, That´d be best I think.
"Q: How are TP's character designs (aside from the admittedly awesome Midna) of more worth than OoT's?
A: The overall designs (I know the system is far more powerful than N64) are just a lot nicer. Even in the artwork for the game, you can tell they spend extra time adding more detail and new elements to the character designs. Links design is a huge leap over what he used to look like (on paper and on screen) and the supporting cast is also filled with a variety of new designs that make the world more interesting. Given, system limitations on the N64 make it hard to compare the two but looking at the artwork behind each series, I say TP received more detail and attention."
My opinion:
Yes, Mashiro, TLP received more detail and attention.... in certain ways o n l y. OoT on the other hand bears all the trademarks of a game that received attention in ALL of the vital areas of importance for reaching a perfect, thoroughly worked-through game. SGGM: STORY/quest, GRAPHICS, GAMEPLAY, MUSIC. These 4 elements must be matching oneanother to make a game feel completely balanced. If one, or two or more of these elements suffer in completeness it will show up somewhere, and give a lesser experience overall of that game.
You may hold that TLP received more detail and attention. I hold, as I have already outlined in my posts above in this thread, that it was with primary emphasis on GRAPHICS and GAMEPLAY alone. The MUSIC and the STORY/quest is boring, so the game feels of less value. With the increase in size and scope of the Hyrule we now look at, there is not enough life forms there to populate it. Not enough houses, ruins, lakes across the land, CAVES to go into and explore, and make it feel more like a living breathing world.
OoT´s Hyrule was way more dense, and full of life, being smaller than this new Hyrule, and so easier to fill up with lifeforms for the developers. But if you suddenly make such a world 4 times bigger, you ALSO have to increase all of the other elements by 4! It is only obvious, otherwise the feeling of emptiness, and accompanying boredom will very quickly become apparent. Not much to go back to later on. I played through OoT at least 20 times!!! This game I will not even play through twice again.
It is constantly so evident to me that from what I have read Miyamoto say about the discrepancy between the excelling efforts of the Zelda TLP 3D modelling team, and the rest of their developer teams. They were caught running behind in terms of cathing up!!! That feeling is apparent throughout the game, which feels more like a beta-version more than a final version. I state again, it is a fact that Miyamoto has lamented that they didn´t feel able to catch up with the 3D modelling team. AND they apparently never did!!!! The new Hyrule is too empty, and it shows. I don´t need to write again what I listed as missing out in TLP. I think it is obvious for anybody who played through OoT and loved it.
"Q: How can you claim a solid pace when myself and others have complained that the narrative peters out halfway through, and the game had many early complaints of an 1 or 2 of tutorial-esque gameplay?
A: I personally felt the game paced itself well, while the narration isn't as prevalent while you are searching for the mirror pieces the game itself still had very little down time. You are usually always supposed to be doing something and rarely find yourself wondering around saying "wtf do I do next?". The tutorial-esque part I didn't mind either, sometimes its necessary and far better than reading a manual."
My opinion:
Kairon is right. Because again one can see the lack of content coming from an inability of the rest of the developer group to catch up.
"Q: How can you say there's plenty of exploration when large swaths of hyrule field, principally the western section in the Wii version, are for all intents and purposes, empty?
A: I know that's for GoldenPhoenix but the western area is where you do the horse back fighting earlier in the game and it remains that same open field. I think the game has a nice number of locations The Sky, Hyrule Field, Hyrule Castle, The Lake area, the Desert to name a few. Not to mention the awesomely designed area with the master sword which was very much a homage to the ALttP. At least if you look at ALttP's japanese box art and other art pieces of the development."
My opinion:
It remains open yes, but it is very little that you can do there, see there, explore there. And you cannot go directly to the gates of the desert on horse back, and you don´t get a feeling of being shot up to that sky city like you did in the cannon sequences in Mario 64. I felt that this could have been added to the cannon sequences as it would have given a feeling of closeness with that travel sequence. And wouldn´t it have been awesome if one could have looked over the sides of sky city, and be able to see Hyrule down below. Look over the sides of cliffs in Hyrule field, and see rivers down there. Hear them roaring by deep down. Giving us a feeling of desire to stay there, and just lazily ride around the field and breathe in the beauty of it all? I think so. The lake where the Zora´s live has nothing in it worth exploring, and I even dislikes some of the textures in that area as they looked too washed out, to bleached out. Artdirection or not. I need to have a world look like a world that is real, and with a specific art style throughout like in OoT. Rocks that always look the same, in different colors, hues, shapes. Lakes that are full of life, danger, things to go get etc. It was like that in OoT and MM. Why not here?
"Q: How can you point out the horseback battles when it's featured in just two or three sections of the game, is gameplay-wise little different from the motorcycle minigame in FF7, and is promptly forgotten for the rest of the game?
A: The Horse Back combat comes into play while you're traveling on (you guessed it) horse back. While it's avoidable outside of the times you MUST fight on horse back, it is still there. Comparing it to the FF7 combat on the motorcycle is a little weak given that, for the horse battle segments, you are often chasing down your enemy and not just riding by the dodging and slashing away as they pass you. It's more of a pursuit and defeat system and it's not on rails, you control where you go. You can shoot your bow as well adding to it. It was a lot of fun turning on horse back and shooting enemies approaching behind me =)."
My opinion:
The horseback battles are cool, more advanced no doubt. But the horse is not used often enough to give a feeling of a truly needed, trusty old friend. I loved Epona in OoT, and I would always treat her good. Needing her as much as I did there was giving me a feeling of a relationship, and thus a sense of identification with being Link. That feeling I miss completely here in TLP. I believe that this again is proving how the sense of belonging, and connection with this gameworld suffers from the lack of properly implemented uses of items and characters in the game. OoT was like a hub you started from, and from where you could look forward to exciting places to go. Just get on your horse, ride in the sunset or sunrise, jump over fences or whatever, park it, and go in. In TLP I get the feeling of a lone desert dweller in hell looking out over an un-enchanted countryside - a vast emptiness full of enemy life forms only. No huts to do a shooting game in. No places to ride up to, and look over the field. Over with quickly, and get out. Don´t like to come back.
"Q: Also, how do you contend the charge that the vast majority of items in TP saw little use outside of their respective dungeons. Did you ever use the ball & chain again, for example? The spinner and dominion rod saw very limited uses in very constrained puzzles outside of their dungeons, as well.
A: In all Zelda titles there are items you just don't use except in certain situations. Example: The invisible cloak from ALttP as well as the magical block that would explode. How about the boomerang in OoT? Never use it unless you are a kid."
My opinion:
I didn´t need most of the items I got throughout the game, because I almost never could see where to use them! There is too little to interact with!
"Q: Also, the lack of sufficient breadcrumbing for players to use midna's warp abilities to fix certain puzzles in the game... AND the ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game, so much so that they're trivialized as rewards for quests, and lesswen the enjoyment of exploring when the treasure chest you just opened has something you already have in spades?
A: I dunno none of those things really bugged me all too much, just personal tastes I guess vary."
My opinion:
I agree with Kairon that there is indeed a ridiculous over abundance of rupees in the game. I think again this is something done in a haste to attempt to fill out the emptiness of the gameworld already lacking in stuff to do.
My final comment: I think that they should get Miyamoto back to playing a more directing role in future Zelda games. Or the series will suffer. The sales numbers speak for themselves, as do the complaints. And I do hope for Nintendo that they will remember to listen to the fans of the series. And listen close to those who rightly comlain about abvious dissapointments and faults in Zelda games they make. If Nintendo wants to be the No. 1 console game supplier I think it would be wise to remember that. I don´t say that my opinion, or those of Kairons, are paramount, but we have some true points that serve to illustrate why TLP is not 120% Zelda as sought by the company.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 11, 2007, 05:09:26 AM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 13, 2007, 05:13:24 AM
I think my little GGSM elements explanation has a lot of truth to it. I also think that Miyamoto gets himself involved in too many projects, so he doesn´t have the time to be involved in the projects that were originally started by him and is now run by others. I find that deplorable. I think we can clearly see from the new Mario what happens once this little awesome man goes back to working on the projects he originally started. They go great again. Mario Galaxy is indeed a true successor to Mario 64. The only worthy sequel to it for a decade. If he went back to directing the Zelda series again, it would yield the same wonderfull results!
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:03:55 AM
EVERYONE has different opinions on what they want in a game. Just because you think your ideas are great doesn't mean the next person does. Then wars begin and atomic bombs get fired and the world ends.
Do you want to be responsible for that? =P
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 09:08:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Companies turning to forums for what players want is the dumbest thing ever.
EVERYONE has different opinions on what they want in a game. Just because you think your ideas are great doesn't mean the next person does. Then wars begin and atomic bombs get fired and the world ends.
Do you want to be responsible for that? =P
I am legend.
Post by: mantidor on July 13, 2007, 09:11:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Companies turning to forums for what players want is the dumbest thing ever.
But thats what they did with this game...
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 09:20:14 AM
A mistake that Ninty will never make again...Phantom Hourglass is pure "what Ninty just feels the hell like doing" and it's incredible...
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:22:23 AM
That's why I said when companies turn to forums to see what players want it's the dumbest move they can make. Nintendo should just trust in their own creativeness and PH will definitely help to see that that is exactly what they do in the future.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 14, 2007, 04:46:30 AM
They would surely understand to just get some ideas from viewing various opinions of games rather than winding up being confused, wouldn´t they? As I recall it, they were intently looking at fanwebsites forums after the 2004 unveiling of the WindWaker cell shaded style Zelda game to understand gamers reactions, and they saw what were the reactions then! Not too happy reactions, I remember. So they later agreed among themselves, that it would be better to go back to making a realistic style Zelda. Which in fact they did, and now they see the result of making a realistic game such as what THEY liked it to be, and not what gamers expected. I will tell you straight off the bat, that Nintendo will always be running behind with regard to meeting gamers expectation if they fail to properly understand what the majority expects from a Zelda game.
The majority are those who hated the WW style Zelda, and whom Nintendo themselves referred to as "many, many people" wanting "a realistic Zelda". I am perhaps expecting too much, if I ask for them to put Miyamoto back into the Directors-chair in order to make a new Zelda game. It may never happen, because he is too busy with too many other projects. He is needed in many places, and has the right to involve himself in what he likes. But one of my biggest wishes as pertaining to the Zelda series, is that he will do like he is now doing with Mario: getting a lot more involved. He is the creator of these game series, and only he knows how they should look and play. And above all, he is the only Nintendo game developer who has ever stated that the expectations of the customers comes first! That is included in interviews linked to in this thread.
Say, a game is made very difficult to play. Tough to get through. Well, if so it had better be one heck of an intriguing, inviting world they make to be in. With lot´s of things to unlock, sights to expect. Otherwise it wouldn´t be worth it to have to go through all of those efforts in order to progress. I, for one, wouldn´t care. I didn´t with Mario Sunshine. Sure it was better in certain ways in the way it played. But that world... It was ugly in many places. Ugly textures, strange beings, stupid water-cannon. All the results of trying to re-innovate the series, so it became fresher, newer. It didn´t. Many reviews reflected how dissapointed people were with it. How tenaciously difficult it was. Mario 64 had a difficulty-variation which was perfectly balanced out for all to try and go through with. You didn´t need all of the stars to complete it. The worlds were fun, and inviting. Awesome accomplishment. Huge applause worldwide. That game was a huge success. What´s wrong with making a sequel? Why stray so far off the proven formula? Because he wants to be innovative? Is it him, or the gamers who will buy the game?
I believe that there is still a majority who prefers the realistic style Zelda, and I have in my posts pointed out what I believe is at fault with the current realistic style Zelda game. The over-reliance on certain game elements alone, and not all of them (GGSM). I have already pointed out above, that the 3D modelling team got over-ambitious with creating the new Hyrule. And that the rest of the developer teams couldn´t catch up. Miyomoto admitted it. So I am right. I merely analyze the feed back coming from Nintendo itself about their games. In this case Zelda TP. But now they are talking about possibly putting Link, in a WW2 setting? Give me a break!!!!!
I can´t demand that an OoT-like game is made again, but I can expect that they don´t take the series too far out, and risk alienating too many gamers from the franchise for lack of meeting expectations. I.e. I mentioned in one of my posts above that Link is an elf, so he belongs in a forest-world, with green beautifull surroundings. Not on an open ocean, in a game where there is so few forests that it was a joke. I read in many places how disspointed people were because of the world they had created for Link to be in then. Everyone at E3 was shocked at it´s unveiling, and Nintendo was just arrogantly scoffing at them. THAT you cannot do as a games company.
And therefore I will include that I will forewarn of consequences for the Zelda series, if Miyamoto does not keep his army of developers in a short leash, and keep the series of track. After the return to a true successor for the Mario series, with Super Mario Galaxy, it is only so clear how much it is precisely that which a majority wants from a Mario game. Huge anticipation isalready building, AND they have themselves said that this is a true sequel to Mario 64. Even Bowser´s in it! No trips to ugly, strange worlds clearly lacking in content and motivation to get through. Only the SAME type of awesome gameplay that only Miyamoto can create. Customers come first. That is why it can NEVER be unimportant to look at gamers opinions, gentlemen! If a game creator starts to think that his opinion comes first, and gamers second, he´s starting to seal his own doom. What, did you just think Nintendo was going to get NO feed back from gamers, and maintain their stance that alone they know what´s best to give us to play?
That is the way it is not wise to make it. Customers have always come first, always will. And since more and more companies wants a piece of the ever growing videogame market, there is increased competition all of the time, and this means that any game maker had better follow intensely what is the precise reaction to games shipped to market. Or they might risk building up irritation in enough gamers to create negative hype, and enough of it, to make them wander off to another console maker - and stay there. They did with SEGA, after SEGA had dragged people around for too long with expensive, under-supported consoles, and too many costly add-on´s. Bad solutions, bad timing. They simply got out of touch with what the gamers wanted, and seeing THAT gamers jumped ship real quick. Sony could just waltz into the market with a perfect and abundantly supported gameconsole which had all of the games, and all of the fun. They have been at the top for two console generations now, maybe they will for a third allthough it doesn´t seem like it. Videogame history that speaks for itself. Take it or leave it. I know what happened.
Right now, the Wii is abundantly supported. That is right now. But this is first, and foremost a Nintendo platform. All else that comes out on it is second- or third party games. The brandname recognition lies in Nintendo games. Otherwise people can go to Microsoft, Sony, and play many off the same games there albeit without the same controls. Those types of controls will be sought copied soon anyway. Nintendo should never forget that in order to stay on top of the world of gaming, they have to do a little of the same that a boxer must: stay in shape all of the time. Now, you can´t say they aren´t doing anything right now for people. They work really hard. But they must be able to properly READ I F people are satisfied with what they get - or not! That goes for every game they make. So I hope for Nintendo that they will set up a system to monitor the reactions of gamers ALL over the world, through interviews over a wide demographic, not just a selected number of fanboys who will say anything good about the games for lack of true qualifications as game-reviewers. A system to measure opinions of games, not sales. And gather all of these informations like they do with sales curves currently at every E3 show. Then we shall surely see the true opinions of the games they make. And for the record: that idea is worth a lot if taken into use! But I gladly give it free to Nintendo if they ever happen to read this post.
Post by: Mashiro on July 14, 2007, 08:15:09 AM
Quote
I see. So perhaps you gentlemen will be so kind and tell me where you then think Nintendo will get their player feedback from? What mistake is it that you are implying they made by looking at fan-based feedback from internet forums?
Don't take this the wrong way but I just skimmed over whatever else you wrote.
Anyway, there is a difference between listening to player feedback on more controlled scales (such as a survey or even a formal contest to submit ones ideas for a game) and Nintendo looking to a forum for what their players think is good and bad.
If you have ever played World of Warcraft you will see WHY listening to people complain on forums is a horrible idea.
Everyone has their own idea of what is good for the game or what direction the game can head in and when a company starts to cave in to the pressures of it's fan base the game will slowly begin to collapse in on itself.
Heck imagine if Nintendo had listened to the forums after revealing Wind Waker! We NEVER would have seen Wind Waker. It would have been thrown in a fire. The forums exploded with hate over the new Zelda style and fans were in an uproar. Yet, it turned out to be a really awesome Zelda experience.
The point is, we don't always know what is best for a franchise. There is a reason that they are the ones making the games and we aren't.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 14, 2007, 09:57:06 AM
Though tend to disagree with you on most of it.
"Everyone has their own idea of what is good for the game or what direction the game can head in and when a company starts to cave in to the pressures of it's fan base the game will slowly begin to collapse in on itself."
You don´t read what I write completely. Are you just skimming it, again? At the end of my post, I wrote explicitly that I found it wise that Nintendo set up a system to measure gamers opinions of the games they send out to market. And make curves of them, so they can see what they´re doing right and what they aren´t doing right. That´s what I wrote. I didn´t write that they should stick their heads into a heated forum full of emotional rants and raving. I agree, that it isn´t fans who should exclusively decide what a game should be like. But they should listen to it, and take some of the things into the game. Part what we want, part what they want. That way it is fair. Your insistance that they decide everything was reacted to like I described at that E3. People perceived it arrogant. And there was talk of the end of the company even.
Note that this came from players, the press, on the showfloor. Who do you think has the most power over people´s opinion. The company or the press? The press, if you ask me! And they were the ones to lament the arrogant stance of the company with regard to Wind Waker. They had just experienced a very lame Nintendo show the year before in 2003 where all that Nintendo came up with was a suggestion to make a new Pacman with Namco which had a multi player option. EDGE Magazine, wellknown British industry monthly, exclaimed at one video I saw that they thought this was the end of Nintendo as we knew it. That they thought it would do a SEGA. I remember it all very clearly. Two years later Nintendo had suddenly turned around for the much better, as if they had been given a wake-up call by the press. So the press has awesome power. More than any advertisements, if you ask me.
"Heck imagine if Nintendo had listened to the forums after revealing Wind Waker! We NEVER would have seen Wind Waker. It would have been thrown in a fire. The forums exploded with hate over the new Zelda style and fans were in an uproar. Yet, it turned out to be a really awesome Zelda experience."
That is not what a lot of people thought, myself included. The triforce hunt in particular was tedious and boring. And I have mentioned the other things about it that I and lots of others didn´t like. It was way too difficult to find out what to do in the game, as that ocean was so big, and when you finally got to a location it was often one that required that one had collected some items that were in another part of the map making for lots of annoying backtracking back and forth. In OoT I had that Great Owl to guide me, or Navi, here there was nobody but a talking boat. Very depressing.
So I repeat: It isn´t fans who should exclusively decide what a game should be like. But they (Nintendo) should listen to it, and take some of the things thus desired into the game. Part what we want, part what they want. That way it is fair. If people do not want a cell-shaded game, why was it changed so drastic in the first place? How can they just make such an abrupt change? See, had they first measured properly the opinions of gamers around the world concerning the other two Zelda´s before it, rather than just look at pure sales numbers, it would have been easy for them to make a Zelda based on the demand of gamers. The customers demands should be met. Miyamoto even states it himself in that interview which I was referring to as linked to in this thread.
So you can hold that you liked Wind Waker. That is fine. But there was lots and lots of people who did not like it. A majority in fact, according what I read somewhere (it´s three years ago, so I don´t remember where it was except that it was on a big website) had been measured based in independent surveys. I recall the figure 70% against the toon shading of Link. That´s a majority. And followingly Nintendo stated that "many, many people" had wanted the realistic Zelda-style.
So yes the ycould have avoided the flack, had they listened to fans at E3 then. The game didn´t sell well, and this is what Eiji Aonuma has stated in an interview was what made them decide to drop the toonshading in the next game.
The bottomline is this: I hold that you can´t continue to see Link change from realistic to toonshaded, back to realistic, and next God knows what form or expression... It is too confusing hurting gamers identification with the game character, the series. So Nintendo should have it as prime principle to measure which is the majority desire as pertaining to game content, style, etc. and which could be done nicely in a advertised survey with strict rules, and specific questions only put to everyone participating. That way, no wild debates would leave confusion instead of insights into gamers desire´s for game content. They would have then measured the fanbase majority opinion, and could work according to that to form outlines for the new game, and work within those guidelines to decide how they would create content for it. Both sides win, both are allowed freedom to choose.
I think it is possible to do it. They should of course only select sane, adult, competent gamers who are above a certain age where they are mature enough to voice their opinion in a sound manner so it would be clear and fair to listen to. Some gamers will just blare out all kinds of things they want, a gazillion things that´s wrong everywhere, and that they want Link in a plane, or a car, or some other nonsense. That is not usefull to a company measuring opinions. What is usefull, in my opinion, are those who can narrow it down to such things as those 4 elements I have mentioned above several times now and talk in a way thus which the developers can understand.
Since there isn´t such a system in existence today, only forums full of crossfires of opinions, biching, ranting, I suggest such be created with strict criteria for what questions to asked, and who will be asked them.
Post by: Mashiro on July 14, 2007, 10:23:05 AM
When it comes to certain elements of a game (post release) I see how feedback is necessary for certain elements. The example of the triforce search is perfect. Heck it was so overly hard in the japanese version that it was changed for the NA release and it was still tedious and boring.
It's in these instances where elements of a game fails that it is wise to listen and say "well the players felt X element wasn't so fun. What can we do with X that will make it more fun? Should we just get rid of X next time around?". No doubt about it they SHOULD do that, delivering the same BAD elements in a game is something no company should do.
Now on the flip side, when it comes to listening to gamers impressions about a game before it is released (those whom base their impressions of a game off of screenshots for example), companies shouldn't listen to that. Example again: Wind Waker. In the end I LOVED playing in a cartoony Zelda world. I did. Maybe not everyone did but my initial impressions were hostile and in the end I loved it. So in those instances I like it when companies stick to their guns, we don't always know what will be fun for us or really interesting to us.
On another side of things it's hard for companies to listen to people over "this is better than this" discussions. What I mean by that is, you Gamebasher LOVE OoT. I did NOT love OoT. I didn't. So when Zelda games are made different from OoT I LOVE it. I love the fact that OoT's elements are copy and pasted into the other 3D Zelda titles. Now I'm not talking about gameplay, I'm talking about the story elements and locations and such. I'm glad they changed things up in the later titles.
So in that way it's hard for a company to sometimes compare things when each game is successful. Now if TP was a FAILURE per say (which it wasn't) then I would say "man Nintendo should look back at what made the other Zeldas great", but it wasn't so I don't think the company should just look back and copy and paste what made the previous game so popular.
It's all situational but in the discussion of Nintendo and in this case Zelda I don't think they need to do looking back or listen to the fans for what made OoT good because they know what makes a ZELDA title good. And that's what matters.
This doesn't cover all games or companies like I said but in this instance I know Zelda is in good hands.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 14, 2007, 10:54:54 AM
But don´t forget that Miyamoto lamented the fact that they, the developer group, couldn´t catch up with the 3D modelling team like they wanted to. This is what made that game lesser than what it could have been. While hardly as bad as WindWaker was for me it was not complete. I said before that I felt it was like a beta-version of a game, not a final one. So I do maintain my stance that they need to look back on that game, and se what they could have been done better.
Post by: Mashiro on July 14, 2007, 11:03:35 AM
I ... lol I was going to add more to the discussion but I just can't think of anything more to say.
Once again I respect your views and this has been a fun discussion =) but I think I am bowing out for now.
Post by: MarioAllStar on July 14, 2007, 05:42:16 PM
Quote
Blades will bleed...
Shields will shatter...
But as the light fades...
Will the Hero rise again?
Post by: Gamebasher on July 15, 2007, 12:01:47 AM
And thanks, MarioAllStar. Beautifull!
I agree, you can do that too. They should look at forums to recognize gamers views of mistakes in past games. Forums can be a treasure trove of information for developers if they know how to use it!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 15, 2007, 12:08:30 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 15, 2007, 12:09:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I believe that Nintendo should use forums only to help recognize faults in past games, not to create the foundation in a new one. Although I enjoyed Twilight Princess, I feel that it was created to satisfy the desire of Zelda fans for a "worthy" successor to Ocarina of Time. This is evident from the game's first trailer:Quote
Blades will bleed...
Shields will shatter...
But as the light fades...
Will the Hero rise again?
They used the same cinematic trailer with the same music from OoT for Wind Waker as well. Which was so annoying since it didn't fit the Wind Waker style at all. Very lazy. It was awesome for OoT though.
Edit: I stand corrected they didn't use the text like they did last time but they had a narrator talking over it.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 15, 2007, 03:25:44 AM
In one of the first TLP trailers, Link was shown fighting off some Stalfoss Knights, inside a dungeon which looked nearly identical to that dungeon beneath the Well in Kakariko Village where Link found the Eye of Truth in OoT. I have simply never seen it in the final game. There was even a scene where three of them come towards him in Hyrule Field.
Yet, all I ever encountered in Hyrule Field was the Bokoblins, deadly plants, the creatures with the steel shield, and another type of rapid creature which I cannot seem to figure out what is. He is also shown in that same old trailer running across a threaded steel bridge, in a room where there is a torch next to a ladder higher up to the left of him as he is running towards a door in front of the picture. This particular scene reminded me of OoT´s forest temple. But I have never been to such a place yet., There is one Lizard-like Stalfoss type of creature also shown on either a screen shot or in the same trailer (which I cannot find again) and which is inside a dungeon with a spider pushing Link up into a corner that looked much different from the one seen in the Forest Temple in TLP.
Is it me, or are all of these in there somewhere in some bonus area? Spoilers are ok, as I simply want to know if any of you have seen these anywhere?
This is a mystery. Did they remove them from the final game?
Thanks.
Post by: Mashiro on July 15, 2007, 03:33:54 AM
I can't give you a definitive answer on if they were in the game or not but chances are it was something they decided to not use in the final version of the game.
Some interesting beta games to read about have been Goldeneye 007 and Sonic 2. Super geeky stuff but it's really fascinating seeing what makes it and what doesn't.
Edit: OoT probably has the most notorious beta data and trailers that were available to the public. Two of the best beta Zelda moments was the video preview of OoT when it was based off the Mario 64 engine and the other is Link finding the triforce.
Post by: Gamebasher on July 15, 2007, 03:42:15 AM
Thanks.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 15, 2007, 04:59:25 AM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 17, 2007, 01:35:19 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 17, 2007, 03:30:42 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 01, 2007, 06:14:07 PM
Sixty plus hours in so far. Near the end here, Twilight princess is a better Spiderman game than the Spiderman game!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 01, 2007, 08:12:54 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 04, 2007, 10:53:47 PM
Incidentally, I've wonder why human Ganon is called Ganondorf and Pig Ganon is called Ganon. Does Ganon in Gerudo mean pig or beast and Dorf mean man? Ganon = "Pig" Ganondorf = "Pig-Man"
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 11:01:50 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 04, 2007, 11:40:58 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 02:49:20 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 05, 2007, 02:52:06 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 05, 2007, 03:47:49 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 05, 2007, 04:05:52 AM
Post by: EasyCure on August 05, 2007, 05:54:15 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 05, 2007, 12:03:10 PM
Despite the 1on1 "combat" setting, your strikes were only allowed to connect during certain actions/animations. You could try to be crafty and bring out the best swordplay Link would get to perform in the entire series, deftly sneaking and weaving around every attack (with good 1-sec openings while the Big Man's back is turned due to a missed strike), only to discover your Master Sword swishes right thru the Big Man's 3D model with zero effect -- complete bullshite.
When you do play the way the game wants you to, you're just using the rolling attack all the time, which seems to connect all the time, making the whole thing a joke. So the disarmored Knights can defend against the roll yet the Big Man can't?
Wind Waker's Danongorf had more attacks, actual counters, more ways to block, and when your strikes missed, he surely blocked. The TP fight was several steps back. ideal for nongamers, shazaam
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 12:12:20 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 05, 2007, 12:45:18 PM
Post by: Shecky on August 05, 2007, 01:16:13 PM
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Originally posted by: Kairon
If the entire final encounter had been as "new," as integrated, and as unique as Link wrestling down beast Ganon, then I'd be happy. I didn't like the rest of it that much.
That part took me a good half hour to an hour to figure out... no joke. I think it had to do with z-targeting... which made it slightly different than the other points in the game that worked in a similar fashion. The other part that got me confused was the first stage of Mr Crazy (zan was it?). Midna's advice is actually misleading and blinded me to my actual locale...
Post by: Kairon on August 05, 2007, 01:23:28 PM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on August 05, 2007, 01:42:21 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on August 05, 2007, 01:47:08 PM
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Originally posted by: Shecky
The other part that got me confused was the first stage of Mr Crazy (zan was it?). Midna's advice is actually misleading and blinded me to my actual locale...
That screwed me up, too. Why the hell was Midna blathering about your sword? XP
Post by: Shecky on August 05, 2007, 02:26:55 PM
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
The final battle was a entertaining idea but had the worst programming in the entire game.
Despite the 1on1 "combat" setting, your strikes were only allowed to connect during certain actions/animations. You could try to be crafty and bring out the best swordplay Link would get to perform in the entire series, deftly sneaking and weaving around every attack (with good 1-sec openings while the Big Man's back is turned due to a missed strike), only to discover your Master Sword swishes right thru the Big Man's 3D model with zero effect -- complete bullshite.
When you do play the way the game wants you to, you're just using the rolling attack all the time, which seems to connect all the time, making the whole thing a joke. So the disarmored Knights can defend against the roll yet the Big Man can't?
Wind Waker's Danongorf had more attacks, actual counters, more ways to block, and when your strikes missed, he surely blocked. The TP fight was several steps back. ideal for nongamers, shazaam
Actually that seems a popular choice by developers to make a battle seem more "epic." (rather than just rely on the mechanics in place)
However, they did put in the cave of ordeals and it's multi ironknuckle/darknut battle
Post by: Shecky on August 05, 2007, 02:36:59 PM
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Bah. Midna gave HORRIBLE advice. At least Navi was topical but Midna was... yeearch
Yeah, and for some reason I can't even remember what it was like in Wind Waker...
QuoteQuote
Originally posted by: Shecky
The other part that got me confused was the first stage of Mr Crazy (zan was it?). Midna's advice is actually misleading and blinded me to my actual locale...
That screwed me up, too. Why the hell was Midna blathering about your sword? XP
Yeah that and reflecting attacks... thanks a lot you little imp.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 06, 2007, 05:04:55 AM
