Author Topic: Flash Frozen  (Read 14210 times)

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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2007, 01:38:56 PM »
Spread the word. That's all I have to say. Spread the bloody word. And the word is: MAFIA!
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Offline vudu

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2007, 01:48:45 PM »
PM me with how I gave myself away.  I'm curious.  If it's the comment I made about the poison sandwich, that's not giving myself away.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline stevey

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2007, 01:55:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Khushrenada
But there's another issue. And that is the lack of knowledge about people's roles. Stabby had questions about his role, Zach just found out he could bring himslef back, I thought the godfather role could switch on a whim by the players and so I adjusted my strategy and played according to that. No one knew it was a one time thing and with Vudu being killed, you could have said it was a one time thing. So, I'm playing under the assumption the mafia has some other power. People didn't understand how you were counting the actions (or the rule you used to determine them) thatguy and I both found out when it was too late and we were dead. Even the current godfather didn't know how you counted actions. I know you made this mafia game to reveal roles while the game was playing or so I assume, (I really don't know for sure) but there comes a point when the lack of information provided just becomes rediculous and hampers the game. What was even worse was the fact that we had like 3 new players and a couple others who had only played one game before. These people need help. They are still learning the game. Then with this lack of info, they lose interest in it.


After the last 2 mafia everyone was getting a little too good at mafia so for this game I trying to make it a Mafia game on hard mode! were you want to win you have to try not be lazy and quiet, keep up with everything, think about why stuff happen with clues, who behead who, what kind of roles are there, ect. The problem is thatguy died on day 1 and really screwed up everything I was going for and broke yours and few other roles....

Oh well, lesson learned  
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Offline vudu

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2007, 02:07:53 PM »
I'd still like to try a game with no PMs.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Zach

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2007, 02:14:37 PM »
good luck enforcing it!
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2007, 02:16:46 PM »
That would be fun. This hasn't been the worst mafia game, just really vague.

Offline vudu

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2007, 02:28:53 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Zach
good luck enforcing it!
Good luck enforcing any of the rules.  Anywhere.  I trust most of the regulars to play the correct way.
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2007, 04:01:17 PM »
Well, let's talk about this a little.  First off, Vudu, you by far gave yourself away by what you said about my death.  At that point in time, no one knew the roles, the only known role was mine, the killer, and there was no way to trace my death to the mafia.  You and Sir_Stabbalot both gave yourselves away, at least to me, right then, except, well, I had already thought Stabby was mafia, hence why I was appealing to him to live so much.

Then there's the time factor.  This is a ridiculous way to handle actions.  Having a killing role also gives you Khush's ability, innately, so long as you give your command first.  Then, of course, since most actions are night actions (The only day action I know of is Stabby's role's action), but they don't happen at night, there are dead players voting, talking, playing, and role-mongering.  Since I was killed during the day, I shouldn't have been able to vote, and TVman wouldn't have died.  However, since night actions take place during the day since the time we send them in during the day is a factor, then I was dead at this point, and my vote shouldn't have counted.  After all, if my PM of my murder didn't get counted, anything after that point that I did shouldn't have been counted.

Of course, then there's the fact that we didn't know that actions were time-dependent, nor if all actions were time dependent.  Khush's action is a block.  However, his block doesn't work if he doesn't send it in before the person he blocks sends in their action.

Question:  What would have happened if Bill, as Mafia Investigator, had sent in an investigation of Zach at 3:00PM ET, and Khush had blocked Bill at 5:00PM ET?  Would the block go through?  Would Bill have learned that Zach was the Gravedigger?  If Khush's block would have worked, then you created a terrible inaccurate way of handling night actions, as we all know that today you said that night actions happen in precisely the order you receive them.  And then, of course, there's the fact that people live all over the world and that they play at different times.  This method gives a sharp advantage to anyone who is awake right when the new day begins.  For some people, that's midday.  For some, midnight.  For others, it might be the afternoon.  People who work, have school, or sleep really lose out with this idea, no matter how hypocritical you make it.  Who cares if you say "Get your night actions in early!"  We all think that means you want to write a story and start the next day right after the preceding one, not that you hold it against us for sending in our actions three or more hours beforehand.

Then, of course, we all know now that there's only one mafia, that you allowed them to merge.  Did you plan on telling us this publicly?  I know at the beginning, at least, the strategies for dealing with two mafias are far different from dealing with one.  Stabby brought it up in one of the Mafia threads, but only as an attempt to gain some cover.  Also, as said before, the mafia can rename the Godfather, and still make a hit that night.  That's adding an extra action, and it doesn't make sense to limit Khush's role partway through with this mafia ability.

Then of course, Zach didn't know he could bring himself back to life.  And to add to all of this, the players who are living best are the ones who haven't posted a thing in the mafia threads.  S-U-P-E-R hasn't had a vote yet, I think.  Neither has Ceric.  Mashiro got bored and wanted to quit partway through, UERD didn't play and finally died at the end of it.  Face it, you wanted to host a mafia that the players would have had to seriously play in order to do well, you should have put in a rule that killed all people who didn't play after a certain amount of time.  You should have taken out players who stated they didn't want to play anymore, and Ty should have died, too.  You didn't do this.  Then, you said you'd do a few game updates along the way.  You started out Day 1 without revealing any roles.  The same went for Day 2.  Finally, on Day 3, you revealed the gravedigger and the Town Whore #3.  You never brought any attention to the merged mafias, at least, until players from the mafia had died and Stabby had pointed it out.  It's not a question of making a mafia difficult.  It's a question of you cheating the players by not defining the rules, by not doing what you stated you would do initially, and by not playing a clean game on your part.  That's my problem with this game.  You didn't hold up your end of the bargain.

Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2007, 04:27:10 PM »
Ha ha ha. That's like the exact same thing I said to stevey in my pm when I learned he went by a time system. Here is part of what I sent.

A time based system is one of the worst systems you can have. People on these forums all live in different parts of the world and so time varies for everyone. Not to mention other factors like work. Second, just because you say send me your action early, doesn't mean everyone realizes that you go by a time system. I've never known another host to do that. I just assumed it's because you wanted all the actions in by the close of the day so you could post the next day right away. And you still can't deny the fact that you have been changing up the roles and rules in this game. I pointed out a couple. There was the amalgamation of the mafias as another example. It's just seemed like stuff is getting made up on the spot.

Had I known that these orders were dependant on time, I would have made sure to send in every order at the start of each day. But like I said, I assumed you just wanted them in so you could have the night actions done and start the next day fast.

That's another problem. Not only did you change roles, you never told people all the info they needed to use their roles. I didn't know about this time rule until just now. You don't think that might have been helpful for some people? That's why people aren't happy with your game. You didn't give out the info people needed to even play it. And the info you did give out, you changed some of it.  



In fact, I've was talking with the current godfather and he didn't realize that the actions were dependent on a time system also. Nobody knew this. One of the most crucial aspects of the game and nobody knew this. It's easy to say this game was set on hard but there's a difference between making a game hard or just using that as cover to hide the faults of the game.

Quote

After the last 2 mafia everyone was getting a little too good at mafia so for this game I trying to make it a Mafia game on hard mode! were you want to win you have to try not be lazy and quiet, keep up with everything, think about why stuff happen with clues, who behead who, what kind of roles are there, ect


This is the ironic thing alright. The last two games were won because some people stepped up and played hard by not being lazy or quiet, keeping up with events, deducing who is who by roles left and the way people have played and this resulted in stunning victories. This game, I laid low and kept to myself and just used my ability. The result? I lived longer than when my role was revealed and I became the townie leader. Now I am dead and the hard work that I did will go on to be rewarded to the those who did the exact opposite of what you wanted. If I'm mafia, who am I going to kill? Someone not participating and not voting or someone who is active everyday? Hmmm. Which would be the bigger threat?

And that's another problem. You wanted the game to be extra hard by not giving out roles but for all we know, S-U-P-E-R and UERD could have some sort of role since you won't kill them off. You added all these other rules, why not a rule about killing off those not participating? Then when I finally think the game is set and I can get rid of these non-players, I find out a new rule about my role, the time the action has to be sent, and I get screwed over for it. There's no justice. That's what I don't like.
Whoever said, "Cheaters never win" must've never met Khushrenada.

Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2007, 12:23:38 PM »
HAHAHAHA!



I fixed it! I got angry at the qc_eyes thing and just hacked the medic female_02's head on her. Eyes work, and she actually can talk in-game. Lip-synching's pretty good, but I need to work on the smile flex. And get a decent texture. But it's done!

Might be ready by the time Khush's mafia starts.  
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Offline Khushrenada

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2007, 04:28:08 PM »
Well, I'm not sure if it will fit with my theme. As it is, I expect to announce my mafia game this friday. Like I said, a quick turn around. So, for all you mafia fanatics, get ready for the sign-up thread this Friday evening.
Whoever said, "Cheaters never win" must've never met Khushrenada.

Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #61 on: September 11, 2007, 04:29:25 PM »
Now she looks like a dude.

Offline Sir_Stabbalot

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RE:Thawed Out
« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2007, 08:57:54 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Khushrenada
Well, I'm not sure if it will fit with my theme. As it is, I expect to announce my mafia game this friday. Like I said, a quick turn around. So, for all you mafia fanatics, get ready for the sign-up thread this Friday evening.


Oh... Is that a "won't fit" as-in wrong universe, or "won't fit" as in entirely wrong species?

Ah, well, I've come this far, I'm not giving up now! I might be able to use her later.

Quote

Originally posted by: thatguy
Now she looks like a dude.


It's gotta be the angle of the shot, as there is no difference between the meshes. Though, as I look at it more, she seems to be missing several flexes. Such as the eyelids. As an NPC, that keeps it from looking natural. So that's gonna need some work.  
"I am going away, but the State will always remain" - Louis XIV, on his deathbed.

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Thawed Out
« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2007, 09:30:12 AM »
Stevey how is the game not over? The last Mafia was voted out on Day 8. The host disappeared for 3 days...and everyone has lost interest.

I am not one that is upset with your game. I think you brought alot of positive and great ideas to the game...some just needed to be balanced.

1)I loved your idea of keeping roles hidden, and as such hope that will become the standard. With one exception...roles are revealed once someone actually uses their power for the first time. Not the person who has it...but that the role exists. So a Bomber will always be hidden until BOOM. Or a Mafia recruiter would always be hidden until he has recruited someone then you know not only there is a recruiter but now you can't trust one of the townies.

2)Several roles that we haven't seen too often were quite cool. 1)Brother/Sister role was very cool, and I liked the concept of basically being a powerless Townie with alittle information. 2)Khush's Whore role was fun, but should be balanced not to work against the Godfather...since the Godfather would appear to be a townie anyway. Then it would not be a big deal if he got unlimited use...but still every other day would be good.

3)Reveals after death. This is a pretty fun idea, but needs to be limited. Once an investigator died on either side it is pretty cool to know who they investigated and potentially what they may have known or passed on. It is also cool to know who the Mafia Godfather hit or tried to hit (if there is a doctor) once he is dead. But the Mafia Doctor role became too much a liability...and even trying to use that information to frame Nuclear Speed didn't work too well. However, I do think that Revealing who the Townie Doctor was protecting is legit information to be revealed. Basically, any information that may give information about Mafia strategy without revealing exactly who Mafia members are is ok. The same with Townie information...and since knowing who the Townie Doctor protected doesn't positively ID a townie as the Investigator or vigilante or anyone it is ok. And the Mafia already knew that person wasn't Mafia.

4)Not really a game breaker but short stories and to the point days. I like being able to read a story, but it needs to be fast...one or two sentences, perhaps something funny and move to the next day. Perhaps the stories this game could have been longer but the principle was nice.

EDIT:

5)I also loved the Jesus role for taking place of the Doctor. I personally am not a fan of the Doctor role, and when I read the Jesus role I thought it was really silly and out of place. But the idea that someone can sacrifice themself for a player is intriguing. I would put in the rules that the sacrificer wins the game if they side he sacrifices his life for wins...so that: 1) He is encouraged to sacrifice himself and still win the game with a 50/50 shot. 2) The role could be used to support either side, with nobody really knowing what side he chose or why.