Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Quantum-Ant-Man-ia)

[nickmitch]

Edit: Deleted since it was better explained in the other thread.

[Adrock]

You built an entire theory around an instance of inadequate writing then strawmanned and condescended your way through the rest of the discussion. The filmmakers chose to make a mass murderer their protagonist with the intention of portraying him as empathetic, something they really, truly believe they’ve succeeded in doing. You can have your fan theory. It’s fine as a theory with the caveat that nothing the filmmakers have said suggests that any of that was intentional. And that’s also fine. Most fan theories are not substantiated by the creators. Even when they are, it doesn’t really excuse flaws in the writing.

This is exhausting and we aren’t getting anywhere. I imagine Endgame discussions will be similarly exhausting. I really liked Endgame, found it to be hella entertaining. I have to watch it again before taking a stand on certain things to make sure I have certain facts straight. Right now, after sitting on it for a while, some things didn’t make much sense to me. They’re nitpicks (like the other thing) and didn’t ruin the movie for me.

[UncleBob]

You built an entire theory around an instance of inadequate writing then strawmanned and condescended your way through the rest of the discussion. The filmmakers chose to make a mass murderer their protagonist with the intention of portraying him as empathetic, something they really, truly believe they’ve succeeded in doing. You can have your fan theory. It’s fine as a theory with the caveat that nothing the filmmakers have said suggests that any of that was intentional. And that’s also fine. Most fan theories are not substantiated by the creators. Even when they are, it doesn’t really excuse flaws in the writing.

This is exhausting and we aren’t getting anywhere. I imagine Endgame discussions will be similarly exhausting. I really liked Endgame, found it to be hella entertaining. I have to watch it again before taking a stand on certain things to make sure I have certain facts straight. Right now, after sitting on it for a while, some things didn’t make much sense to me. They’re nitpicks (like the other thing) and didn’t ruin the movie for me.

đź‘Ś

[Adrock]

đź‘Ś

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[Plugabugz]

The single biggest achievement of the movie was getting Robert Redford back one more time. He retired last year on The Old Man and His Gun, but he was back for Endgame AND he managed to hustle a "with" credit on just three-ish lines of dialogue.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Easy money. why not take it?

[Adrock]

If Redford was in it for the money, he wouldn’t have retired.

I was surprised to see Natalie Portman though I read her scenes were from deleted scenes.

I still haven’t seen Thor: Dark World and I didn’t think Rene Russo was amazing or anything in the original. In fact, I didn’t even know Frigga died until maybe Thor: Ragnarok. That said, her cameo was probably my favorite just because that scene was so good. Russo was great, and it was effective character building for Thor after Infinity War.

[UncleBob]

The single biggest achievement of the movie was getting Robert Redford back one more time. He retired last year on The Old Man and His Gun, but he was back for Endgame AND he managed to hustle a "with" credit on just three-ish lines of dialogue.

When was The Old Man filmed?  wasn't Endgame and Infinity War filmed at the same time?

I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, but there's one line in particular, when 2014's Thanos is ranting about taking apart the entire universe, where he says something something basically 'remaking the universe in my image' (not what he says, but, that is the idea).

Rewatch from last night.  He rambles about building a new universe where no one remembers the old one, but ends with it being a "grateful" universe.  He basically wants to be worshipped like a god.

[oohhboy]

đź‘Ś

🙄

[BranDonk Kong]

So the Thanos wanting to balance the universe thing is actually from the comics too. Silver Surfer #34.

[ShyGuy]

Got around to watching Endgame. The movie was somewhat a jumble, but plenty of great moments throughout. It feels satisfying to close the book on the MCU. At least, that's how it feels to me. I don't feel obligated to see upcoming MCU movies. Her are some random thoughts:

- Why didn't Coulson show up? The separation of the TV and movies still irritates me.
- I was glad Tony finally moved on with his life. And then he was dragged back in!
- Whatever happened to Lady Sif?
- Thumbs down on Professor Hulk, he seemed a little too much in the uncanny valley.
- Cap got a potty mouth after the snap
- How is Hawkeye going to explain to his family that he was murdering hundreds of people for five years?
- Black Widow sacrificing herself felt like a twist for twist's sake.
- Tilda Swinton and Rene Russo stole the show. Great performances
- So is Gamora stuck in the future? Is that how they get her back? If so, that seems lame. She wasn't on the Guardians ship at the end.
- The female Avengers coming together was a nice moment
- Both Nebulas should have died. Traitor!
- Thanos from 2014 seems much more nasty
- I loved that Captain America got to wield Thor's hammer. Avengers Assemble!
- I didn't like that Thanos' Darth Maul sword chopped up Cap's shield
- Captain America had a satisfying ending, exactly what I wanted. I'm glad he got his dance with Peggy.
- I'm bummed that Tony Stark died. He went out like a hero, but I was hoping he could have retired with his family in an alternate future
- As other have already said, the world's timeline is all screwed up now

Predictions and thoughts for the future of the MCU:

- Peter Meets Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane in this the new disjointed timeline
- Thor better be in the third Guardian's of the Galaxy movie!
- Captain Falcon (ha!) has to get juiced up somehow if he's going to be the new Captain America
- Bucky is going to be in the next Black Panther movie and become some version of the White Wolf
- Hulk will be around for cameos I'm sure

What the heck happened to the idea of Integrating the X-Men and the Fantastic Four? Part of me wishes the MCU had a bigger reset than it actually did in the end.

[ShyGuy]

Oh! Also, what's the deal with Loki escaping with the cosmic cube? Did Cap fix that too? Is Loki still alive?

What the heck, Vision is just dead? that's stupid. They should have done more with the infinity stones.

[UncleBob]

Actually, Coulson not showing up does make sense...

Tilda Swinton did steal the show.  Wasn't expecting her to show up and it was amazing when she did.

But... from the internet rumors of the FFH trailer, you might be drug back into the MCU after this.

[BeautifulShy]

In regards to the Fantastic 4 and the X-Men I think the Fox deal happened too close to the release of EndGame to implement it. I think this was the culmination of the Infinity Saga and it deserved to have a nice bow on it. In regards to the X-Men I think when Thanos used the stones again the movie said that using them caused gamma radiation to be expelled out.  I am kinda expecting the upcoming Black Widow and The Eternals movie to expand on mutants in the MCU.

[Stratos]

Loki is certainly an intentional loose end, but I agree with Shyguy that these alternate timeline/reality versions of characters feel like a hollow cop-out for the MCU. Gamora and Loki had so much character development that is all lost. MCU felt much more tangible without all these copy/alt worlds and characters. Having them be alts feels much more like a bad Sy-Fi plot or the convoluted nature of the Flash/Arrowverse.

Presumably Loki's loose end leads into his D+ show.

WandaVision (still a bad show name) will probably revolve around Wanda bringing back Vision in some form.

Aren't the stones never truly gone in the comics? I recall reading that if they ever were destroyed they would reform elsewhere in the universe.

The five year jump does leave a lot of possibility for insertion of the F4 and X-Men down the road.

Some people also think there was a Namour the Submariner teaser in the reference to the underwater earthquake that was discussed between Black Widow and Okoye. The way Okoye firmly intended to leave it alone felt a bit ominous, like they knew there was something there that should be left well enough alone. Could have been Atlantis. Still think Jason Momoa should be scooped up and pulled into the MCU and this would be a hilarious way to do it.

[ThePerm]

The character development between Gamora and Star Lord is still in existence. But only Star Lord remembers. All that needs to happen is Mantis touch Star Lord and Gamora at the same time.

I enjoyed Aquaman....but Jason Mamoa IS Namor.

Maybe Namor should resemble Aguaman in this universe.

[UncleBob]

The Gamora thing is brilliant.  Quill alludes to it in GotG2, when he rants about the whole Cheers/Sam/Diane will they/won't they.

Obviously, by the end of GotG2, it was a given.  Now, boom.  Reset.

[BranDonk Kong]

Oh! Also, what's the deal with Loki escaping with the cosmic cube? Did Cap fix that too? Is Loki still alive?

What the heck, Vision is just dead? that's stupid. They should have done more with the infinity stones.

Yes, Vision is "dead" - but, Shuri had downloaded his "being" in Wakanda (oh hey look, that's also where all the Vibranium is) before he was killed, so he will probably be recreated, just without the Mind Stone this time. This didn't happen in Endgame because Shuri was also dead for 90% of that movie.

[BlackNMild2k1]

@Shyguy

- Coulson is dead. he died at the end of season 5 of AoS
- Lady Sif was probably dusted on some random planet, she had no reason to immediately go to Earth
- I also didn't really like Mark Hulkallo, although it was humorous to see a non aggressive Hulk.
- Hawkeye will probably explain the last 5 years like he did the previous 20.... not at all.
- I wanna say Gamora got dusted, like everyone else form the past. But since they obviously and purposely didn't show her... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
- Caps ending also left him a way back in using Banner's failed attempt at Time Travel. Passing time though Cap can make him a young man again.
- Stark had a full character Arc, and RDJ got paid a kings ransom on his way out. RIP Tony.

@ BeautifulShy

The Black Widow movie has to be a prequel set sometime between Captain Marvel and Ironman.
it will probably also cover the mission that Natasha and Barton are always referencing that they worked together.

[BeautifulShy]

@ BeautifulShy

The Black Widow movie has to be a prequel set sometime between Captain Marvel and Ironman.
it will probably also cover the mission that Natasha and Barton are always referencing that they worked together.


Yeah but what if Wolverine was there while he was working with Team X and Black Widow is there monitoring his mission after the establishment of Shield. Just a small part of the movie.

[ThePerm]

They could just give the soul stone back to the red skull and then use the Time stone to do the reverse vision thing.

You need all the infinity stones to do a massive act, 1 or 2 of them can be used for smaller things.

Also, way back in 2009 I thought when they made Dragon Ball...why do everything at once? You'll burn out the plotline and it'll be a terrible movie.

We should really credit Harry Potter for making long saga movies a thing. Before then at most movies were designed with one or two sequels, maybe a trilogy. Movies with lots of sequels would usually not care about continuity too much... like James Bond movies.

[ShyGuy]

I have no problem with Iron Man leaving the MCU, I just don't like that Tony left behind a wife and kid.

[ThePerm]

Trade Spider-man for Tony. No country for old men.

[ShyGuy]

I'm fine with that. Spiderman has a very different story in these movies. Despite the good characterization, he almost feels like a different character.

- Aunt May is younger
- He has a best friend named Ned
- No OsCorp
- No Daily Bugle
- No Gwen Stacy
- Half of Mary Jane
- Ironman was his mentor
- Spider suit has a bunch of Stark technology
- Not really bothered by Uncle Ben being dead

[Adrock]

I'm fine with that. Spiderman has a very different story in these movies. Despite the good characterization, he almost feels like a different character.

Makes the reboot worth it.

The verdict is out on Oscorp, Daily Bugle, and Gwen Stacy. Maybe Marvel/Sony just haven’t gotten to them yet. Peter had been Spider-Man for about six months by Civil War/beginning of Homecoming. They (thankfully) skipped his origin story so we don’t really know how much Peter was affected by Uncle Ben’s death other than the implication is that he’s fighting crime due to it. Still, everyone knows this side of Spider-Man’s lore. And I suppose it certainly helped to have a “replacement” (for lack of a better term) father figure in Tony Stark. If Marvel/Sony want to revisit the lost father-figure thing, they can still do it post-Endgame.