Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Quantum-Ant-Man-ia)

[UncleBob]

Also: https://powerrangers.fandom.com/wiki/Past,_Presents,_and_Future

Yeesh, couldn't they have written an original idea?

😂😂😂

[Spak-Spang]

I wonder if it is truly parallel timelines, which would mean they never meet, which would make the old Captain America scene confusing.

Or if they are slanted inward moving ever closer to the main (Prime) timeline until the become back into sequence again.  But then then does that really make sense?  to me I would think it does, as there should only be one Prime timeline, and these splinter Timelines must merge back into the main timeline eventually...at least for the travelers of that timeline. 

Either that, or once Steve Rogers decided to go back and live out his life, we are in a 3rd timeline unknown to us all, and that timeline has Captain growing old.  Now you can say foul, because Steve would alter too much of that timeline...but doesn't it depend on when he goes back, and how low profile he lives his life.  If he lived a simple uneventful life not hero-ing and mostly off the grid, his life could have almost zero impact on the world. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

you could, but it wouldn't be your timeline anymore.
You changed something, so now it becomes a branch off your timeline into a new timeline. An alternate reality, I guess.

But yes, time travel is confusing. but that's why they established the rules within the movie, so that it made sense in the moment, and explains how it works in the MCU.

I can't go into the past to change my present.
If I change my past, I create a new path to an alternate present.
but if I go back and undo that change before it affects that past.... that alternate present will cease to exist.

[Luigi Dude]

Steve went and lived with Peggy in a different timeline and then when she died he went back to the main one.  Yes they didn't show him appear at the jump point which we can argue about it being a plot hole, but having him show up again as an old man already sitting at a bench that we slowly see as Falcon talks to him is something the directors probably thought would be a stronger cinematic scene vs Steve suddenly showing up as an old man at the spot everyone expected him to appear.

Nebula shot and killed her past self but is still alive which made it very clear timetravel in this movie is basically like Dragon Ball Z.  Going back in time just causes a new timeline to be created but you can use it to help save your old one, (at least until Super).  The Ancient Ones speech about taking the stones can leave a huge ripple was very obviously talking about how if Strange doesn't have the Time stone in her timeline then Dormammu wouldn't have been stopped.  Returning the stones didn't make this timeline merge back into the main one, it just lets them run a similar course where they don't get screwed over by not having them.

Plus even if there was a way to let these timelines merge, that went out the window by the end of the film.  The Thanos from 2014 invades the main timeline where he and his whole army is then killed.  This means in the old timeline that Steve returns all the stones to, the events of Infinity War will never happen since Thanos is no more in that timeline.  Which means in that timeline half the universe is never killed only to reappear 5 years later which is a pretty major event.

Seriously, just treat the time travel in this movie as DBZ.  You have the main timeline which is like Trunks future and the new timeline which was the past that will never face the effects of Infinity War.  I would not be surprised if we get an Avengers movie that deals with the fact the timeline they visited is going to have a radical change with Thanos being gone.  Everyone should remember what Mordo said in Dr. Strange after Strange used the Time stone to repair the damage done by end of that movie and stop Dormammu.

"You still think there will be no consequences, Strange? No price to pay? We broke our rules. Just like her. The bill comes due. Always!"

Now that the Avengers used time travel to undo the events of Infinity War and created a separate timeline that will have a major branch coming up, I would not be surprised if something from this new timeline ends up coming back to effect the main one in a big way down the road.

[BeautifulShy]

That is about the best I have seen Endgame explained and how time travel works in it. Wonderful post.

[BranDonk Kong]

Agreed. Though it's worth mentioning that the way they traveled time in Endgame is completely different than using the Time Stone. Of that's all they needed to do, Doctor Strange could have just reversed time before Thanos defeated them, or even back to before Thanos for the Soul Stone, or sent himself to Wakanda to get Vision, etc.

[UncleBob]

That works - but, what *exactly* causes a timeline to split?  Jumping into another point in time and making changes?

If that's the case, then wouldn't Old Man Steve jumping to the bench and interacting with everyone be enough to kick off another branch?

Would Young Steve, say, jumping and returning the time stone to 2012 New York create a new psth, one where he does and one where he doesn't (The exact thing the Ancient One feared?).

Or is it *only* making changes to *your* specific past?  That goes back to the stock example.  Going forward five years does nothing, but going back to right after you went back in order to invest in stock would?  This seems awfully plot convenient.   "If the time travel would create a paradox, then it makes a split, otherwise, no."

[UncleBob]

Agreed. Though it's worth mentioning that the way they traveled time in Endgame is completely different than using the Time Stone. Of that's all they needed to do, Doctor Strange could have just reversed time before Thanos defeated them, or even back to before Thanos for the Soul Stone, or sent himself to Wakanda to get Vision, etc.

Hm. In theory, I wonder if they could have stolen a Dr. Strange from shortly before Infinity War (Time Stone and all)., brought him to Endgame time, and just had him use the Time Stone to 'rewind' the destruction of the five Endgame-universe Infinity Stones, rather than doing the entire Time Heist sequences.  Now, obviously, they can't do this because they don't know Doctor Strange has that ability (the only ones to meet him before the snap were Bruce and Thor, who never saw him use time stone powers and Tony/Rocket, who never saw him use the 'rewind' feature.  And even this, Wanda saw Thanos use the 'rewind' feature to restore the mind stone, but she's gone), but for funsies, I do wonder if that would have worked and been easier.

[BranDonk Kong]

I would assume that Doctor Strange looked into that and it didn't work. It's actually kind of fun to think of all of the things that didn't happen in the movie, because they wouldn't have worked. Sure, it ultimately comes down to the Russo Bros. writing, but if you play along it's pretty interesting.

[Spak-Spang]

In the comics, the Infinity stones from multiple worlds or timelines, only work in their parallel World.  So Doctor Strange could not use his Time Stone to reverse the destruction of the stones, because at that moment there would be 2 stones in that time line, the destroyed one and the out of place one, which the out of place one wouldn't work. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

the ont thing i do know, is now that we know Old Man Rogers is still alive in our time line, they can use the Banner approach to time travel (time traveling through you) to bring Young Man Rogers back.
We saw it happen with Ant-Man, they can use that same technique to Cap.
He lived his life with Peggy, he has all those memories, and now he can reverse age and be Young Man Cap for the next decade of Avengers Movies.
He don't even need his Shield... he has Mjolnir now (assuming he didn't somehow return that to Thor of the Dark World)

[BeautifulShy]

Cap did return Mjolnir and all the infinity Stones back when he went back in time.  He also passed on the Captain America title to Falcon much like the comics did.  I think in the comics they had it so that Steve was depowered of his Super Soldier Serum and had Falcon take the mantle of Captain America and had Steve in an advisory role.  That may be what happens but the MCU have zigged when the comics zagged so we shall see.

[ThePerm]

Thanos teleported to Earth at present time? Or did he teleport to Earth when everyone disappeared? This part was ambiguous. I figured he teleported to Earth five years later.

[Adrock]

I got out of Endgame about five hours ago, and I've been letting that set in.

A few things got spoiled for me due to that YouTube algorithm. Some were just obvious like "Captain Marvel fights Thanos". The only one that kind of mattered was Steve Rogers wielding Mjolnir. It was right in the video title as I was scrolling on my phone.

I fully expected this to be my favorite line:

2012 Steve Rogers: I can do this all day.
2023 Steve Rogers: Yeah, I know.

But then.... "And I. Am. Iron Man." *snap* happened. Hnnnngh....

Thanos teleported to Earth at present time? Or did he teleport to Earth when everyone disappeared? This part was ambiguous. I figured he teleported to Earth five years later.

My understanding was 2014 Nebula brought Thanos to the movie's present (2023) through the Quantum Tunnel.

[ThePerm]

The absence of Thanos in that timeline must have created a parallel timeline where nobody got snapped.

Was Ocarina Ganon gets the Triforce of power timeline. Now is Link put  the sword back timeline.

[Stratos]

#LokiLives!

I still thing the main Loki faked his death, plenty of signs there. I had half figured we'd get a tease scene where he ends up somewhere else only to get dusted at the snappening.

But 2012 Loki made off with the Tessaract, so I wouldn't be surprised if he finds his way back as well. He always finds a way back.

[nickmitch]

I fully expected this to be my favorite line:

2012 Steve Rogers: I can do this all day.
2023 Steve Rogers: Yeah, I know.

But then.... "And I. Am. Iron Man." *snap* happened. Hnnnngh....

Same. I really liked all the call backs to the earlier movies. The fact that Tony’s dying words were the iconic phrase from the first film was *chef’s kiss*.

[Adrock]

I really liked that there wasn't an Electro-esque teeth-fixing scene and Thor remained out of shape for the final battle.

When Carol met Peter, I thought they were going to do the cover of Avenging Spider-Man #9.


Also, I’m at least a little disappointed the time jump forced Cassie Lang to be recast. Abby Ryder Fortson was great in the first two Ant-Man films.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It was a 5yr jump, why Cassie look like she went from age 7 to age 15/16.

[Adrock]

It was a 5yr jump, why Cassie look like she went from age 7 to age 15/16.

Oh, I know why. I even mentioned it. Emma Furhmann seems like a perfect good replacement. I was just musing about how I liked the actress who played young Cassie.

[BlackNMild2k1]

to continue a thought from another thread since it crosses into *SPOILER* discussion

I think part of Thanos' plan has to deal with the population at large taking for granted the opportunity they have at life to be more than the ungrateful consumers of all resources around the universe.

To kill off half the universe should make the other half feel grateful to have survived, and then thrive as a species to be better than what they once were.
That is something that doesn't get solved by simply doubling the resources of the universe, as that allows the already ungrateful population to just double up on consumption and continue the current destructive ways without consequence.

To speak any further requires spoiler tags, and that's too much work from my phone. But you kinda mentioned it in your post above.

Where Thanos thought that life itself should owe him thanks and gratitude's for giving them the space to thrive and be better, instead of continually being congested and stepping on each other to get ahead. His visit to the future to see his plan executed before he actually had to execute it, revealed something to him...

In Endgame, Thanos realized the error of his ways, in that he left the other half who would remember those that were gone, and instead of being thankful that they survived, they mourned those that they lost and had trouble doing much more than trying to find their way back to a normal center. Cutting the population in half was only addressing the issue he sought to fix at the surface.
His revised solution was to end all life and recreate it in his image, so that they could thrive as species and be better than what once was before, now that they had no memory of the past and therefore did not long to regain what was lost, but instead only saw what could be moving forward.

So while I agree his initial plan was flawed, I also think in his mind it made sense at the time.
and seeing how he saw the flaw in his own plan after seeing it executed... and then undone, you learn the underlying reason for him wanting to "fix" said problem in the first place.

But I've only seen the movie once (so far) so I may have some extrapolation of details in my mind that weren't in the movie. It's been in there marinating for a few days now.

[UncleBob]

>Where Thanos thought that life itself should owe him thanks and gratitudes

Glad others picked up on this.

This is why I'm set on his plan not being to 'bring balance' or whatever he rambled about over and over.  It was about proving he was right in order to serve his own ego (No, he's not related to Quill).  He didn't care that whales were thriving on Earth.  He wanted to be right and he wanted everyone to know it.

I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, but there's one line in particular, when 2014's Thanos is ranting about taking apart the entire universe, where he says something something basically 'remaking the universe in my image' (not what he says, but, that is the idea).

[ThePerm]

In the alternate thread Oohboy tries to pick apart Thanos's plan. Thanos is even aware by the end of End Game that his plan is flawed. He evolves his plan.

I completed Art School despite it not being a great plan. I've also completed may Pringle's cans. Sometimes once you pop you can stop.

http://youtu.be/TKxm6s4XJlg
idk what is up with youtube links sometimes.

[UncleBob]

Exactly.  It's like, the entire world of Titan told him it wasn't a good plan.  I'm sure they used all kinds of math, logic, and science to try to explain it to him (or maybe they just wrote him off as crazy and didn't waste their time) and he still thought he was right.  Which adds support to my theory that it isn't about the act, it's about him being right.

[oohhboy]

Not in the text.