Topic: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Quantum-Ant-Man-ia)

[UncleBob]

I really liked how they built up Thanos. It worked and worked well. You understood his stance, but he was still wrong. He was absolutely the star of the film.

ehhh...

Don't get me wrong, I liked Thanos as the villian... but his motivation is so flimsy to me.

Finite resources in the universe.  Sure, with you so far.

Life cannot continue to expand uncontrolled and be substained on the finite resources.  Okay, I'll accept this premise.

Thanos plans to gather a source of limitless control over all time, space, reality, etc.  Makes sense.

Thanos then plans to kill half of all life... instead of using this reality warping device to, I dunno, create more resources?

Like, dude, you killed your daughter and it made you all weepy eyed.  Bring her back and alter reality so that life doesn't even need food to survive.  Look, I just cut down on the resources needed.

Also, I'm gonna need some more background on this "extinguish half of all life" thing.  Did he just kill half of the plants and animals as well?  Half of all bacteria and microbes?  Seems like that would dig into the finite resouces pretty bad.

Oh, and that helicopter (Thanoscopter?) crashing at the end... that probably killed some people.  Are they counted in the half that died?  Stan Lee has a bus full of kids going down the bridge when he disappears, causing the buss to veer off the side od the bridge and the 50 kids onboard to drown (sorry Spider-Buddy).  Do they count towards the half?  Ohhhhh.... a pregnant woman turns to ash... the fetus?  Is it a person?  Does it count?  Might have just solved the abortion debate here.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Being able to dig into the reasoning of everything that happened. Thanos was beautifully developed and executed in this movie. We know where he was coming from, where he was going, and why he was trying to get there. We even knew he was willing to sacrifice it all (except himself) to see this through.
And even though he essentially had the power to be the one true God, he was still fallible and certainly killable.

Now if The Russos can pull off Avengers 4 in the same manor if not even better than the previous 3 MCU movies they have done (which all 3 fit into most people's Top 5.... I should make a poll), they will have cemented themselves as some of Hollywoods top grossing directors *for only having done 5(?) movies. They will basically be able to pick their next project and get the blank check to make it as well. LOL
Hopefully Feige continues to bring them back for future projects as well.

[UncleBob]

>They will basically be able to pick their next project and get the blank check to make it as well. LOL

Justice Leage 2: Mustache Moar.

[Stratos]

I get that he could have created life/space instead, but I view him similar to a zealot of sorts, maybe someone like Judge Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame. He thinks he is a force of nature doing the will of the universe to "balance" things and believes that this is the only way. The argument with Gamorra settled that for me. He was the only one who "saw what needed to be done"... or at least of those that knew he was the only one with the gonads to attempt to pull it off. I wouldn't expect a person like him to even consider any alternatives just like someone who is a flat-earther would never consider an alternate truth, as every argument you put forth has some sort of flaw in that person's mind.

[ThePerm]

Thanos has the same character flaws I pointed out in the Iron Fist. Zealots usually end up being bad guys.

This movie was really really good.

[nickmitch]

I don't think doubling the resources is a simple as killing half the people.  From Thanos's perspective, when he first thought of the idea on his home planet, doubling the resources wasn't an option.  Plus, once he has the stones, things like land and physical space are finite resources.  Would doubling that mean making planets twice as big?  Would that impact how habitable the planets are?  Would doubling all the resources cause life to increase at an increasingly rapid pace?  Would he just have to keep doubling the resources every few centuries as they constantly run out?  At what point does the entire universe run out of space?  Can he make the finite universe bigger?

Seems easier just to wipe out half of the people.

[nickmitch]

Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.  The excuse for Ant-Man not being there was that Scott was on house arrest during the film.  Does the movie take place with Scott defying his sentence? or is it set after IW somehow?  The former seems more likely, so we'll have to wait until the post-credits for a even a tease of the next Avengers film.  We already know Captain Marvel takes place in the 90s, so that's another wait for the post-credits tease.

Also, is it just me, or were the heroes disproportionately affected by the half of all life thing?

[BranDonk Kong]

I think it's just you. 50% doesn't mean "every other".

[UncleBob]

Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.

It is my hope that it takes place both before and during Infinity War and ends with a post-credit scene of Scott's daughter turning to ash.

[nickmitch]

Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.

It is my hope that it takes place both before and during Infinity War and ends with a post-credit scene of Scott's daughter turning to ash.

You're a monster!

[BranDonk Kong]

I think we will find out tomorrow, kinda, when the new trailer is released. I assume much of it will be before IW but some will happen during the end of IW.

[UncleBob]

Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.

It is my hope that it takes place both before and during Infinity War and ends with a post-credit scene of Scott's daughter turning to ash.

You're a monster!

Yup.  But imagine the feels.

I mean, we all know it's going to be completely undone by the end of A4 no matter what - so why not go crazy?

[Stratos]

Another concern about "making more space" is the question of the limitations of the universe. What if the universe is actually finite in size like some astrophysicists/astronomers theorize. Granted, it is getting larger as things expand from the big bang in this scenario, but if there is an "outer wall" of the universe, then no amount of creation would solve the problem in the end.

[UncleBob]

Maybe I'm overestimating the power of the stones.

To me, they sound as if they can defy all of what we understand to be physics.  I mean, he used them to turn Drax and Mantis into wierd twisty/rock piles without killing them.  If you give me complete control of time, space, and reality, should I not be able to change the rules of them?  Create a planet 100 times the size of a regular planet that can literally exist in the same space as 100 other planets the same size?

[BranDonk Kong]

But he wants to balance the universe, not increase the size of the things in it. I think he respects the stones and why they exist...he's not trying to "improve" the universe that created them...just balance it.

[UncleBob]

If a scale has five grams on the left side and ten grams on the right, you can balance it by removing five grams from the right.  You can balance it by removing all 15 grams.  You could balance it by adding ten to the left and five to the right.

Is any one of these options inheretently better or worse?

[Evan_B]

Doctor Strange looked at 1million possible outcomes.... and in none of them did he rewind the moment where Starlord lost his **** and fucked up the plan because of his feelings. They were seconds away from getting that gauntlet off of him... "it was the only way...."

Scarlet Witch also could have prevented this mind stone if only she had done what needed to be done, long before she actually did it..... :/
Tough choice for her though.

Both are absolutely terrible story choices. Either Strange's power is limited to only perceiving the possibilities of a specific outcome (removing the glove, and no other elements outside of that, which is bullshit because every other element present could have some effect on the outcome of that single action), or he very deliberately chose that outcome because he perceived some sort of positive result down the line.

Once in possession of the Time Stone, Scarlet Witch literally could not avoid the Mind Stone being stolen. Further proof that when you try to tell a story about a character controlling reality, you write yourself into a corner.

Just took my kids to see it. When the screen went dark, my son asked "are they dead?" and I nodded my head...he burst into tears.

You should have said "until next year."

[BlackNMild2k1]

Doctor Strange looked at 1million possible outcomes.... and in none of them did he rewind the moment where Starlord lost his **** and fucked up the plan because of his feelings. They were seconds away from getting that gauntlet off of him... "it was the only way...."

Scarlet Witch also could have prevented this mind stone if only she had done what needed to be done, long before she actually did it..... :/
Tough choice for her though.

Both are absolutely terrible story choices. Either Strange's power is limited to only perceiving the possibilities of a specific outcome (removing the glove, and no other elements outside of that, which is bullshit because every other element present could have some effect on the outcome of that single action), or he very deliberately chose that outcome because he perceived some sort of positive result down the line.

That was my second thought, but I didn't put it out there because I wanted to spark discussion, and maybe someone else thought of it too. Maybe it was the only outcome where "everyone" survived in the end. Getting the glove off of Thanos, and no one else being powerful enough to really wield the glove with any strength just ended up getting pummeled anyway, and Thanos gets the glove back.

Once in possession of the Time Stone, Scarlet Witch literally could not avoid the Mind Stone being stolen. Further proof that when you try to tell a story about a character controlling reality, you write yourself into a corner.

Well, had Scarlet Witch just destroyed it back in the lab, or even sooner. Thanos wouldn't know what or where to rewind to get it back. He would've had to just rewind all of time to a point where he had come across Vision still in possession of the stone.

[Evan_B]

Something I harp on quite a bit regarding the MCU is the number of unnecessary entries in the canon and how they add nothing significant, and although Doctor Strange was a "prequel" of sorts that had the character developing his powers, I just don't feel he's had enough growth or significant screen time to warrant the idea that he was planning for such actions. Despite the amount of fluff that exists in this series of films, I still feel as if the majority of the characters (with the exception of maybe Thor, which is something I never thought I'd say) have absolutely no place being in this sort of epic, cosmic-scale event. That is personally just a perception issue for me, but this Phase planning seemed to spiral out of control and proportion way too quickly.

In any case, even though the Marvel brakes won't ever stop until the movies stop making oodles of cash, this movie at least feels like a part one to a significant end, and I hope they scale themselves back a bit after Part 2. I mean, there are only two characters I could realistically see as worthwhile threats after this, and they're going to need to build up some serious stakes if they want to come close the scope and scale that was present here.

[BlackNMild2k1]

GALACTUS IS COMING!!!
as pronounced by the herald Silver Surfer.


as a side thought.... what if the recreation of 50% of people turned into dust, isn't done perfectly and causes more than a few.... MUTATIONS? hmmmm.

Wouldn't that be Fantastic!? Or would the MCU just be DOOMed!?

[BlackNMild2k1]

So let's talk about the Hulk/Banner arc that's happening in AoU -> Thor3 -> IW -> A4

The struggle, the conflict, the adversity, the rivalry.
Bruce afraid of unleashing the Hulk, to The Hulk burying Banner because he's too weak, to Bruce finally gaining control again only to have to summon the Hulk back to fight again.
Now the Hulk get punked hard and turns into a lil bitch, forcing Banner to have to Man Up causing Hulk and Banner to actually communicate with each other.

So where do you think this arc leads in Avengers 4? Smart Hulk where Bruce and Hulk learn to co-exist in the same space at the same time? What's next for the Hulk?

edit: You think this will lead to Hulk getting his "Thor" moment. where he breaks onto the scene at a really pivotal moment, now bigger, badder, madder and even stronger than ever?

oh, and WTF.... I know they mentioned Hawkeye in the movie, and I know he wouldn't really have a place in this mess, but I swear the Russos said he was in the movie. Unless I missed him in that glimpse of the cabin in the middle of nowhere scene. LOL

[Plugabugz]

The one thing that i have been thinking about is how the AOS Storyline conflicts with Infinity War. The season 5 plot suggests AOS has been stuck in a timeloop, and this has happened several times. If only SHIELD know about this then the Avengers won't (as they don't appear in the movie) and the events of Infinity War have looped several times already. Only by breaking the loop are the events of Avengers 4 allowed to happen and then stick.

[oohhboy]

Forget about AoS being connected to MCU. Your head would explode trying and failing to make the connection. They stop Avenger level planetary threats as their day job. Easier to just assume that there are no Avengers or god tier superheroes because whatever reason makes sense to you. Maybe they all died in New York. RDJ is now having an endless bender with the whole team and they can't get out. Whatever.

Almost every season could have been fixed with a phone call. Even if they sent just Hawkeye things would get sorted pretty quick. Black Widow could take the entire team to the cleaners, butcher, back of the woodshed and finally some unmarked graves if she is generous.

Coulson knows these people and he would have some chips to call in even if they don't care about the planet exploding with them on it.

[Adrock]

Saw Infinity War on Sunday, and I’ve been letting it sink in. I want to watch it again before going into a big thing about it.

When everyone was disappearing, I was convinced the action was going to cut to Hawkeye as he watched his family turn to dust. I thought it would have been a good way to show that this was happening everywhere. I mean, the audience is told this; it’s still important to show it. Then, the after credits scene happened, and I was content with that.

Speaking of, I figured it was going to be a Captain Marvel tease. I’m really glad Brie Larson didn’t show up. I remember reading that The Wasp was written out so she could make her debut in the solo (duo?) film, and I thought that was a good choice. I hoped for the same with Captain Marvel.

My understanding is Ant-Man and The Wasp takes place before Infinity War. I read some speculation/predictions that a good portion of the film takes place in the Quantum Realm and since time passes differently there, Scot and Hope could return right in the middle of the end of Infinity War as people are disappearing even if the story starts shortly after Civil War. That would be a pretty wild ending, but I think it would be a disservice to Ant-Man and The Wasp as a solo film since it would depend so heavily on the audience being familiar with Infinity War to make sense. Granted, if one is watching Ant-Man and The Wasp, chances are they already saw Infinity War, but Marvel shouldn’t assume.

[Shorty McNostril]

My understanding is Ant-Man and The Wasp takes place before Infinity War. I read some speculation/predictions that a good portion of the film takes place in the Quantum Realm and since time passes differently there, Scot and Hope could return right in the middle of the end of Infinity War as people are disappearing even if the story starts shortly after Civil War.

I wouldn't expect any Infinity War tie-ins outside of the post credit scene.