Topic: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?

[ymeegod]

Wouldn't Xenoblade count for the WII?  Or Kid Icarus: Uprising for the 3DS?  Both of them target the hardcore gamers more than casuals. 

Nintendo hasn't changed but the reason why you see droughts on their systems is the lack of support which is somethin they need to address. 

[Chozo Ghost]

Wouldn't Xenoblade count for the WII?

It most certainly WOULD, if only Reggie actually wanted to bring it over instead of having to be pressured into doing it and having Gamestop front the costs.

I agree with the previous poster's assessment that the only games Reggie gets excited about are the ones everyone knows about and recognizes. For that same reason I'm not sure if I would count Kid Icarus either, because it is an old pre-existing franchise and the character was in Smash Bros. so its not like its new or original. When it comes to fresh new games Reggie seems completely uninterested. He seems to be too afraid to take risks with new unknown franchises. He only bets on the sure thing.

[Caterkiller]

I don't understand much of the reasoning behind some posts. In the N64 and GCN days all we ever did was complain how badly Nintendo marketed it's self, for many of us that was the sole reason it lost out to Psxbox a generation ago. Nintendo stumbles upon the whole self improvement craze the world has been on about and their new systems sell an unprecedented number because the marketing was so great. Some outlets and groups might be a bit confused now, but going from one gen to the next has always had those people, blue ocean or not.

Now complaints about Reggie hyping and trying to get major IPs from 3rd parties? What the F man? Isn't that all anyone wants along with their Nintendo games?

I just don't see how Nintendo is lazy, what is it that some of you feel entitled too? I get it when people get upset about certain motion controlls, but we've gotten all our major IPs this gen and the only true rehash was Animal Crossing and to a much much lesser extent punch out.

They have showcased so much 3rd party while keeping the lid on their own projects that won't be released for a long time anyway, I don't see the issue. We know nintendos games are being worked on but many people act like they don't exist and use that as excuse to be mad at everything.

But then again maybe I am in the true minority. Things I seem to love many on these boards hate, I guess I am just different and easily content with things.

[Adrock]

But then again maybe I am in the true minority.

I kind of feel like I'm in the minority here too. This year's E3 was far from the best E3 ever, but taking everything in over the last couple weeks, I came away with so many games I want to play. I'm on the fence with Wii U this year, but 3DS will keep me plenty busy. I'm definitely buying a 3DS XL (well, trading up to be exact) along with Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, and Code of Princess. Heroes of Ruin and New Super Mario Bros. 2 are possibilities. Those are probably too many games for me. I just don't have enough time. Maybe that's the reason I don't share the disappointment. I'm backlogged as it is so I'm pretty content with what I'm getting on Nintendo hardware.

[NWR_insanolord]

The 3DS has a pretty great lineup on the way, and the launch window of the Wii U looks really strong. They could have done some things better, but it's mostly stuff like the E3 presentation which isn't really important in the long run. I'm pretty happy with the way things are shaping up.

[ShyGuy]

3DS needs that one game that grabs the hearts and minds of the consumer and becomes a breakout hit. That game hasn't happened yet.

[Evan_B]

I don't understand much of the reasoning behind some posts. In the N64 and GCN days all we ever did was complain how badly Nintendo marketed it's self, for many of us that was the sole reason it lost out to Psxbox a generation ago. Nintendo stumbles upon the whole self improvement craze the world has been on about and their new systems sell an unprecedented number because the marketing was so great. Some outlets and groups might be a bit confused now, but going from one gen to the next has always had those people, blue ocean or not.

Now complaints about Reggie hyping and trying to get major IPs from 3rd parties? What the F man? Isn't that all anyone wants along with their Nintendo games?

I just don't see how Nintendo is lazy, what is it that some of you feel entitled too? I get it when people get upset about certain motion controlls, but we've gotten all our major IPs this gen and the only true rehash was Animal Crossing and to a much much lesser extent punch out.

They have showcased so much 3rd party while keeping the lid on their own projects that won't be released for a long time anyway, I don't see the issue. We know nintendos games are being worked on but many people act like they don't exist and use that as excuse to be mad at everything.

But then again maybe I am in the true minority. Things I seem to love many on these boards hate, I guess I am just different and easily content with things.

Hey man, I love Nintendo IPs too. And from this past E3, the third party support and interest on Nintendo's behlaf has been a much-welcomed thing. But is Reggie up there, playing Zombi U like he did with Wii Sports? No, he's putting his face in a camera.

See, Nintendo may have stumbled upon this casual gold-mine, but they're a gaming company, too. They make nice hardware that allows them to cater to that casual audience. And from a business standpoint, it's a nice groove they've got themselves in. But those who grew up playing their video games because of their innovation, challenge, and core experience have a right to feel betrayed, because they don't deliver in a number of ways. And the GAMERS, the ones who supported them throughout their lifetime up until the Wii (and still do- you see a number of fans defending the Wii U fervently)- and there's been a lack of localized games that make the Wii's library a joke. It's not entitlement, it's expecting the same type of quality across the board, because if we don't get that, why should we support the company? Because we want the IPs, right? Then give us more of what we want, Nintendo, and you'll undoubtedly get more support.

Nintendo is a BUSINESS. It's about supply and demand. If we don't demand, they won't supply. If they don't supply and look down on us because we're "insatiable", what does that say about them respecting us as customers? If Nintendo wanted to sell an all-casual system, they could.

These are not really my personal opinions, but they have reason to them. I understand being laid back and taking what you get, and I take advantage of the opportunities and games that my Wii provides. But it IS slim pickings sometimes, and you have to wonder why.

[NWR_insanolord]

It's always slim pickings when you've only really got one company making games for a system. The end of the last few Nintendo consoles, as well as the current state of the PlayStation Vita, illustrate this point.

[broodwars]

"Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?"  Hmmm...hard to say.  I can see arguments both ways.  On the one hand, this is the company that seems extremely fond of giving us extremely safe and by-the-numbers sequels that seem to have the minimal amount of work put into them, like the New Super Mario Bros.; the Wii _____ series; Pilotwings Resort; the N64 ports on 3DS (Ocarina & Star Fox 64) etc.  It's the company that decided that making a 4th named character in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and NSMB U was too much work, so they just palette-swapped another Toad character.

But on the other hand, I just got a 3DS and before I stopped to type this I was playing Super Mario 3D Land for the first time and it is anything but lazy.  It feels fresh and new with things I haven't seen before in a 3D Mario game, something I far prefer in my Nintendo games than "just how you remember it...only BETTER!"  I've also been playing Mario & Luigi 3: Bowser's Inside Story, and that also feels fresh and new within its own series.  This is also the company that's making Luigi's Mansion 2, a game I don't think anyone was demanding (however well people look back on that game now, at the time people were really down on that game) and which is certainly a riskier venture than just crapping out yet another Mii-based game.  And despite NoA's extreme reluctance to bring the games over here, this is the company that published or developed the niche and expensive Operation Rainfall games.

I think Nintendo is the confused servant of two extremely different masters: the investors who always want the Sure Thing with the least Cost, and the developers/core gamers like us who want to push their creativity to create new experiences.  Unfortunately, Sure Things are often the ones that make all the money.  I really enjoy Nintendo's more creative or ambitious games, but when they probably have 5 times the development cost and 1/5 the financial return of something like a New Super Mario Bros. or Mario Kart game, it's not hard to see why the Investor half usually wins when Nintendo's planning projects.  Until people either stop buying the Sure Hits in such ridiculously massive numbers or they start buying the creative games in massive numbers, we're probably not going to see this trend towards "Easy, Sure Hits with Minimal Effort" end.

As for Reggie, I've really never liked him.  When he's on stage, I just don't hear the passion one would expect from a guy selling entertainment products.  He never sounds like he cares about the games he is talking about.  Everything's cold; calculated; condescending; and focus group-tested, conveyed with an extremely slow and dry Shatner-esque delivery.  If he can't sound excited by his products, why should I be?  And that's not even getting into what games Reggie allows NoA to publish in NA compared to the other regions.

[ThePerm]

The three negative phrases I keep hearing are "playing it safe", "lack of ambition", and "missing the obvious"

the one positive phrase I keep hearing is "not what i expected, but thats a good thing"

[Caterkiller]

The loyal fans who were supporting Nintendo were disappearing in droves every generation until recently. I feel like when it comes to Mario games each one except for NSMB ds has delivered like no tomorrow. My Dk needs were met this gen and last gen, Metroid has went above and beyond the call of duty this and last gen, don't care what you all think of other m and whiny samus I enjoyed it. Zelda made me very happy despite some design issues and Kirby has been all over the place in awesomeness. Except for F zero and star fox I feel like my needs have been met. And people are complaining about Xenoblade but come on it came!

Love me some wii sports resort, love rhythm heaven, and there were some nice 3rd party titles I own as well.

Now resources were put into into Wii fit, music and who knows what else but I just ignored those. I have been loyal to Nintendo and they have been loyal to me.

People want nintendo to make the next uncharted and halo but so far that hasn't happened. Just work a little more and buy another system if it's that important to you. I know many of you do anyway, but still wouldn't buy the Nintendo version.

[shingi_70]

I don't get why its wrong to play it safe. Nintendo is in a state of flux and going with known sellers the first year when your trying to foster an install base and the do the more exciting things afterwards.

I mean after E3 I saw a lot of defense toward microsoft and sony and people giving them the leeway of playing it safe. Yet micrsoft does the same thing and its bad.  While I'm personally want them to make me say wow I understand why they are going the routte they are going.

They are only a gaming company and putting money until crazy ecperinces that don't sale well is bad.

[Chozo Ghost]

The loyal fans who were supporting Nintendo were disappearing in droves every generation until recently.

Yeah, the Wii is definitely a system every core gamer loves and is playing constantly. It has never experienced any software drought, and it most certainly is not collecting dust. Thanks to the Wii, no loyal Nintendo fans have ever felt the need to buy a PS3 or 360 this generation.

[Caterkiller]

What I meant was the install base. From NES on nintendo sold less and less until the wii. We have had a long droubt these last 2 years because focus has been placed on the next gen, 3rd parties haven't been able to back Nintendo since the SNES but at least I know game development is happening somewhere. It's no excuse for such a dry spell, but don't beg for Zelda and then not finish more than 2 temples. Not you Chozo but in general. Don't quit galaxy because of shake controls and then wanted Nintendo to make more Mario. For some of you Nintendo is exactly what you ask for and at the same time everything you hate. Their output has been almost on par if not more than it was in previous gens only now we don't spend 2 years wondering when Donkey Kong and Mario are coming out, we gt it within 3-6 months of an an announcement which is fine by me.

3rd parties didn't fill the gaps during the GCN days and all of a sudden the GameCube is so popular for what ever reason on these boards. Their 3rd party support hasn't been good for ages and they can only do so much as a single entity. Only now that they are trying to broaden the gaming horizon they have abandoned us or have become lazy. Nintendo is doing more then ever with trying to win over 3rd parties, but Reggie is cold and calculating, doesn't care about games, he should be fired and so nintendos efforts don't count. What he says and does barely affects what you play anyway. You think he had the final say on getting Xenoblade over? Ha!

Nintendo is putting its foot in the right direction but still it's never enough. Also F all of you who don't want your grand parents to be able to enjoy a game with you. I would love nothing more than to be able to play wii sports resort with my mom or smash bros with my grandma.

[Sarail]

I don't get why its wrong to play it safe. Nintendo is in a state of flux and going with known sellers the first year when your trying to foster an install base and the do the more exciting things afterwards.

But see, that's the catch. They're fostering the wrong install base. Sure, this install base will make Nintendo tons of DK barrels of moolah, but when they decide to do more exciting, deeper, and more involved experiences afterwards...will this same casual install base buy these games? Definitely not. They're fickle customers who don't ultimately care about Nintendo like we do. That's the problem. And the Wii is incredible proof of that. It's just absolutely mind-boggling that it is the number one selling console, but yet has the crappiest third-party support of the three systems.

That needs to change. And fast.

[ymeegod]

"GCN days and all of a sudden the GameCube is so popular for what ever reason on these boards"

In terms of quality the GC had the better games.  There's 16 90+ ranked games on the GC and only 11 for WII (two are older ports and one was an indie game).  The WII has 3000+ titles yet most of them are just plain B rated games or worse.  I'll take another GC generation vs another WII generation any day of the week.

[Sarail]

I still find it hilarious when people say the 'Cube didn't get good third-party support... when on my shelf of 40+ 'Cube games, sits more than half of them being third-party! Crazy.

Ah, Killer 7 and Second Sight, how I love thee.

[Evan_B]

I don't get why its wrong to play it safe. Nintendo is in a state of flux and going with known sellers the first year when your trying to foster an install base and the do the more exciting things afterwards.

But see, that's the catch. They're fostering the wrong install base. Sure, this install base will make Nintendo tons of DK barrels of moolah, but when they decide to do more exciting, deeper, and more involved experiences afterwards...will this same casual install base buy these games? Definitely not. They're fickle customers who don't ultimately care about Nintendo like we do. That's the problem. And the Wii is incredible proof of that. It's just absolutely mind-boggling that it is the number one selling console, but yet has the crappiest third-party support of the three systems.

That needs to change. And fast.

Kinda what I was hoping to say, but you said it in a better-worded way.

I'm just saying, Nintendo could create a casual-system. It would sell like hotcakes and only feature "Wii X" type games and the casual crowd would eat it up. But so far, Nintendo hasn't really done much to satiate even its core base of fans- they seem to want to attract other console gamers with their choice of third party support, but where's the first-party support? NSMBU is safe, and they know it, and will probably get good reviews just because it will be a well-designed game, but it's safe. VERY safe. Pikmin is nice to see, but as a launch title? It feels like the game was made launch because they never got around to releasing it on the Wii. Where's that real killer app?

Some would say Nintendoland, and I'd have to agree, sadly. Nintendoland is a nice attempt at bringing the casual and the core together, and that's exactly what it's supposed to do. Minigames based off of the beloved franchises. But it is still very casual based, with a lot of motion control and shallow gameplay mechanics. The Nintendo titles that innovate and challenge the already-established concepts are few and far between... and the ones that attempt to reinvent the franchise in a different light have been missing, too. Metroid: Other M was no Metroid Prime. Opinions vary on Donkey Kong. But also, where are these franchises that we absolutely loved even on the cube? Even the third-party offerings that found their home on Nintendo consoles haven't been around, and I think it's because they alienated so many developers with their casual approach (I don't think, I KNOW.). It's upsetting.

Another thing I'd like to add is that, if Nintendo wants to rely on third parties to bring westernized-type gameplay to their console, that's FINE with me. Because the westernization of Japanese franchises has been killing me softly and I don't want to see that with Nintendo... but they are kind of getting a "softcore western" feel to them with the Wii minigames and safe, casual titles. It's worrisome. Is it wrong to worry?

[Kairon]

With every Nintendo console from here on out, I fear it becoming the GameCube 2. Not that I didn't love my GameCube, and Cubivore, and Pikmin, and Metroid Prime, and Killer 7, and Gun... but I think another generation where a system only sells 20 million units worldwide would be extremely and utterly painful no matter which way you slice it, especially in today's world of financial difficulties and studio closures.

Nintendo's working extremely hard to find ways to avoid that fate, and as a fan I'm happy to see what they've got in store for me next.

[shingi_70]

Honestly im expecting the Wii U to sell alittle above gamecube numbers. Its not going to touch the Wii, but hopefully theycan atill make a profit.

[Tamazoid]

The WiiU will sell more than the 64


You heard it here first.

[Sarail]

Oh, I fully believe the Wii U is going to be the most successful console next-gen - primarily because of the console's last couple of HUGE surprises that haven't been unveiled yet...but will shortly as we get closer to launch. And these secrets, that have everything to do with why this console is going to succeed, are that of controlling the entirety of the living room entertainment experience...

Controlling your cable/broadcast tv input.

This country is gonna go haywire for it. I mean, I even see Nintendo creating an actual built-in Nintendo "television channel" in to the system's "tv control" button - I think them doing that whole "Nintendo Channel" thing on Wii was an attempt at creating television content...especially Nintendo Week.

Imagine a "network" style video game channel brought to you courtesy of Nintendo and exclusive to the Wii U that broadcasts Nintendo programming on a weekly basis (Seriously, look at how the Nintendo-Directs are put together)... with commercial type advertising for game releases that plays in-between the programming? Third-parties would EAT THIS UP. And then take it a step further by having the eShop linked into the programming since it's obviously built into the hardware. It'd be one of the most interconnected game consoles of all time... both locally and online.

THIS is why I'm excited about the future of Wii U - now just gimme the games Nintendo. The good ones.

[S-U-P-E-R]

I don't understand how someone could conclude a that a large company with thousands of employees is cumulatively lazy. Could you be more specific? I could understand "unoriginal," sure. I kinda think it's more likely that they are making highly calculated and active marketing decisions that you don't agree with.

They always seem to have their own interests in mind rather than those of their customers.

Yeah man they're the shittiest charity ever

They're fickle customers who don't ultimately care about Nintendo like we do.

I am very interested in the specifics of how you care about Nintendo, please post them

[SixthAngel]

I don't understand how someone could conclude a that a large company with thousands of employees is cumulatively lazy. Could you be more specific? I could understand "unoriginal," sure. I kinda think it's more likely that they are making highly calculated and active marketing decisions that you don't agree with.

It's just like how 2d Mario is a casual game now.  Things change to fit people's narrative.

[Ian Sane]

"Lazy" in this context is kind of a mean way of saying "formulaic".

One thing I can't stand about casual games like Wii Sports is the intentional lack of ambition.  Like I can't move in tennis?  I can't field in baseball?  I can't even play 9 innings if I WANT to?  That kind of dumbed down **** drives me nuts.  And they use this simplistic graphic design to be more inviting to everyone and they use player avatars instead of characters.  I understand the design decision to do it that way but it sure is convenient that they found success with such a game since a lack of options means they don't have to design as much content, a simplistic graphics design requires less effort from the artists and using Miis means they don't have to design any characters like Nintendo had to do in the past for Wave Race and 1080.  The formula for a casual game also allows Nintendo to cut corners in game design.  They can make a cheaper game with less content and less effort and it sells like hot cakes.  This is totally the wrong lesson for any videogame company to learn.  It comes across as times like Nintendo has found the ultimate formula where they put in the least amount of effort they can get away with and still have a hit game.

And that is reflected in little ways like how there is no need to come up with a logical fourth character for NSMB when a second Toad is "good enough".  Or how they can have so much public domain music in Wii Music or how they can just take Wuhu Island and the Miis and shove then into Pilotwings.  In the earlier Pilotwings they had to actually design characters and levels and such.  No such effort needed here.  The Miis are the ultimate "get out of character design FREE" card for Nintendo.  And Nintendo loves an excuse to re-release old games with some new gimmick.  You almost figure part of the incentive to make the Wii was to re-release Cube games with waggle controls.

I don't know if this bare bones effort formula was part of their intention for the Wii but they sure embraced it once the system took off.

Look at Nintendo Land.  So you have Miis, which they can just recycle from Wii Sports and EXISTING Nintendo IP which cuts out the character, story or setting design part of the game.  The visual presentation requires no real effort graphically.  And instead of some sort of ambitious game that demonstrates the new features of the controller like Super Mario 64 did for the N64, we get a collection of tech demos like Wii Sports was.  Who needs to develop a real game when you just paste tech demos into some mini-game collection, lift the Mii models from existing games and throw in some familiar Nintendo IP to tie it all together?  It's like every shortcut that can be taken is made.  When I think of Nintendo being lazy THAT is the kind of bullshit I'm thinking of.  Nintendo Land is a demonstration of how to get away with the least amount of effort possible.