Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Kytim89 on June 22, 2012, 03:17:49 PM
Title: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Kytim89 on June 22, 2012, 03:17:49 PM
I asked this question because it is becoming increasingly clear (atleast to me) that Nintendo is getting increasingly lazier with their stuff. It seems like everything is half-baked from them any more. They always seem to have their own interests in mind rather than those of their customers. The recent E3, and subsequent Direct videos, have shown me that Nintendo is becoming like on of those people who expects to sit in their living room and get check from the government without actually working (no offense :cool; ).
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Adrock on June 22, 2012, 03:22:22 PM
I haven't gotten that impression from them at all. I'm excited about several upcoming games on 3DS, less so on Wii U but I'm definitely going to get one in the future, probably around March next year if I don't just fold and buy one in November.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: AnGer on June 22, 2012, 03:32:29 PM
I wouldn't call it "lazy" but it would appear they are somewhat not recognizing what their customers expect from them. They do their work, they do it properly, but they aren't showing off anymore – something that may become a problem.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 22, 2012, 03:35:23 PM
Nintendo discovered an easy way to make money with very minimal effort and they've just stuck with it. I guess that does count as being lazy.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ejamer on June 22, 2012, 04:04:27 PM
I don't think they are being lazy. They seem to be making a lot of changes to adapt to the marketplace, are still putting out some of the best software around, and offer as much innovation as anyone else in the business.
I do find their marketing a bit confusing at times and wonder if I'm part of their target demographic any longer... but that's a whole different discussion.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 22, 2012, 04:18:32 PM
Nintendo is the same Nintendo that Nintendo has always been. The only thing that's changed is the way they market it, which is now more focused on the short term and therefore makes it seem like they're doing less when they're really just showing things for a much shorter timespan.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 22, 2012, 04:55:52 PM
Since Iwata took over, Nintendo has been increasingly becoming more Apple-like. They are not the same company they used to be.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 22, 2012, 05:13:58 PM
Since Iwata took over, Nintendo has been increasingly becoming more Apple-like. They are not the same company they used to be.
Yes they are. The marketing has changed substantially, but Nintendo at its core is more or less the same as it's always been.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Evan_B on June 22, 2012, 06:59:22 PM
They've had some questionable marketing choices, but they really do seem to be trying. I mean, the business aspect may be a little lazy- especially on Nintendo of America's behalf- but the quality of their software and hardware has been fantastic.
So no, I wouldn't say that.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: nickmitch on June 22, 2012, 07:05:00 PM
The Nintendo I knew used to make fun, innovative Mario games, 2D side scrolling Donkey Kong games, Kirby titles that had a unique twist to them, the best handheld systems and systems that had controllers that seemed a little crazy at first but turned out to be genius.
Now, look at them.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Oblivion on June 22, 2012, 07:36:45 PM
Hm...
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ShyGuy on June 22, 2012, 09:04:39 PM
When was the last culture-changing-killer-app game from Nintendo? Wii Fit? that was in 2008? I don't think the 3DS has had that killer app yet. DS has Brain Training and Nintendogs.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
I was a Nintendo fan before n64 came out, but I wasn't a die-hard Nintendo fan until then. What made me obsessed with Nintendo was Mario 64 and Zelda Ocarina of Time. OF course rare games on 64 were a huge draw..i loved: Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie, Diddy Kong Racing, and Conker's Bad Fur Day. With Gamecube they kept me involved with their own games especially Metroid and big exclusives series' like Resident Evil. There was always a line up of killer apps to keep me plugged in. The last wii generation there were some good games from Nintendo, but I felt like I was missing out in ways like never before because the competition was really bringing it.
At this moment, as cool as Wii U is, it doesn't seem like Nintendo is really bringing it. Even Pikmin 3 which i'm still excited about seems unusual. The one game I thought could benefit a bunch from the new controller is apparently super traditional, so its like "Que?"
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Evan_B on June 22, 2012, 10:52:33 PM
I feel that, although Nintendoland won't be a killer-app, it will definitely show off the possibilities of the gamepad very well.
The thing with the Wii U is that it has so many different factors going into it, it seems that Nintendo is having a difficult time really covering them all- and they say they still have MORE to reveal. It's kind of difficult, because they've jammed so much into this system- online, tablet streaming, integrated gaming, asymmetrical gaming, NFC, etc and they probably don't have a lot of games that feature uses for this stuff, themselves.
I see the launch utilizing a lot of its streaming/motion tech, but probably by next year Nintendo will be churning out more unique ideas for the gamepad.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: marty on June 22, 2012, 11:24:52 PM
I don't know if nintendo has become lazy but I can't think of any game from them that really seemed to be ambitious and well crafted in the last few years, Smash Bros Brawl i guess comes close with the exception that the sub-space emissary section was a bore and not ambitious or well-crafted at all.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: bustin98 on June 23, 2012, 12:30:54 AM
They aren't becoming lazy. They've always been lazy. That doesn't mean they don't produce some fun games. It just means they put in a minimal amount of effort to make their products. They certainly can't be accused of going above and beyond expectations with anything. For example, the new 3DS XL.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: house3136 on June 23, 2012, 12:56:35 AM
For me, being lazy would equate to: no GamePad; just throw together expensive CPU/GPU, charge $600 most likely at a loss; make sure controllers, peripherals, and games are not backwards compatible; block used games. Don’t bother supporting your system with creative games like Galaxy, or demonstrate the initial vision of your hardware (motion control) with games like Wii Sports or Skyward Sword. Bring up to 3-4 versions of your biggest franchise to one console without significant changes or reasoning other than cash.
The real motive seems to be: Pick one of the following games that hasn’t been announced yet (Metroid, Zelda, 3D Mario, Starfox, SSB, F-zero, anything Retro) and come up with borderline insane reasoning why it hasn’t been shown 6 months before the console launches. Take Nintendo Direct for instance, having Sakurai announce the partnership with Namco, is most likely because of so much outcry from E3. Even though Sakurai has stated multiple times “we’ve just started the project” it’s not good enough. So Nintendo made them personally address the fans with a letter restating this. “Please be patient.” – Sakurai. They were probably planning on doing this anyway, and it worked out well, now the fans know.
And I’m convinced anyone upset about no Zelda didn’t even touch Skyward Sword, but saw the HD tech demo and jumps to “I want that game NOW!” even though Aonuma and Miyamoto have reiterated it was just a demo and not to even expect the final version to look like that at all. Just imagine all the butthurt that would happen if Nintendo revealed another cel-shaded Wind Waker-esq game. “Nintendo, you just lost a huge “fan”.”
Or how about: Why have third parties been so tight-lipped about Wii U? Take Call of Duty for instance. Maybe they’re waiting to showcase that game to introduce their online strategy in more detail with a tangible source that clearly illustrates to millions of gamers the new system is competent online and works this way in conjunction with leaderboards and MiiVerse? And maybe it’s just not ready yet?
None of these thoughts or questions are aimed at anyone here, but just in general. I’ve been reading some NeoGAF lately, and have just come to the conclusion people are going to be upset no matter what Nintendo does. People will scream all day long about Nintendo but have no intentions of buying Wii U or its games. It’s as if people are trying to reason and convince themselves why they are against a company using any desperate excuse they can muster. “2D Mario isn’t a real Mario game.” I’m sure Nintendo could have revealed their next big 3D Mario, but they already had 3 Mario games at the conference, and because NSMBU was the finished game, that is the one that got the spotlight this year. Nintendo will undoubtedly have more Nintendo Direct presentations later this year for 3rd-party support, and there are still months to lay out and show those games, and present an advertising campaign for the public still unaware of Wii U’s existence. Can Nintendo try harder? Yes. Should we all hate Nintendo now because of ambiguity toward the future? No. Let’s all relax, pop in a Wii game and remind ourselves why we’re interested in this new system in the first place. Hell, I’ve got the N64 hooked up. Where’s Goldeneye…
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Evan_B on June 23, 2012, 01:32:12 AM
Yeah, NeoGAF is a wretch hive of scum and angry people.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: house3136 on June 23, 2012, 02:49:31 AM
Yeah, I think I may have accidentally moved the bitching forum over here, whoops. I will say one game that stood out to my was Assassins Creed III, even though this is the fifth, arguably sixth game in the franchise, it’s bringing so many new qualities that it’s exempt from my statement about multiple games on one console that make a series stale; and I’m looking forward to playing it on Wii U. However, if NoA doesn’t offer a neutral color option for 3DS XL by this holiday, I will say that is lazy; there is no excuse considering all other regions are getting a neutral color, when NA account for many 3DS sales. I can’t justify another $200 unless I can get white; which looks beautiful. Also, I realized how much I suck at NSMBWii because I haven’t played it since I beat it two years ago. I have to make sure my body is ready for this holiday.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: oohhboy on June 23, 2012, 01:18:59 PM
Yes and No. they have been lazy when they remade Starfox 64 and Ocarina of time. Sure it sold, but no one asked for them and with a little extra effort they could have just made new games. The upcoming Mario platformers are lazy when they have shown they can still make compelling 3D Mario games.
Their biggest problem right now they are far too concerned with PR and control of the message rather than "Here are games, enjoy". The PR is force feed and saccharin. E3 beside Shiggy was a parade of suits that had no place on a stage. If you don't have charisma, have passion, something suits don't have. Steve Jobs wasn't a suit. He had real passion for what he was doing and that's why his brand of Apple style PR works, even if you disagree with him, you can't deny that aspect. It's also the reason the Shiggy portion of E3, Nintendo direct and Iwata asks works. Sure it's plan and scripted, but they are real people who are right in the middle who can offer real answers.
People hate BS and E3 was full of it. Stage after stage of people who didn't belong trying to be hip and cool. It was fucking embarrassing. It looked like everyone was using some standardized PR playbook only to get blown up like the FBI agents in Die Hard. Instead of an entertaining flaming ball of fire, they just fell over dead and forgot to leave a corpse.
At their very core Nintendo isn't being lazy. The games are still great, but the facade doesn't work and they have made some strange decision like not integrating CCP on the XL since "portability" is going out the window anyway.
House 3136, what is wrong with your posts? It changes font and size with every paragraph. Plus they are constructed like a copy and paste Frankenstein from multiple authors.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ThePerm on June 23, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
Sakurai was mentioned LAST year to be working on it, so it would be bullshit to say "he just started on it"
also, really for any sequel there is no such thing as "Just started on it", one of the biggest things about Smash Bros is its since Melee been one of the best looking series on a Nintendo console, all they really need to do with this one is make it hd, and maybe make the camera closer or making it more like Power Stone. Actually it would be kinda awesome of you had a 3d and 2d view on the gamepads
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: vinniebrock on June 23, 2012, 02:26:06 PM
Lazy isn't the right word. IMO they might be rushing a lot of their stuff lately. 'Careless' might be closer, but certainly not to that extreme. I agree that they do things how they want, and that was evident with the E3 conference (pretty much from the Revolution announcement - present), but i don't feel like they've left us behind or anything. True, they are trying hard to bring that casual audience over to the Wii U. But i really don't get it when people accuse them of being lazy.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: oohhboy on June 23, 2012, 02:58:20 PM
Schizophrenic might be a better word.
NOA is a company of suits that is disconnected from it's own market. NOJ is still a videogames company with Japanese sensibilities NOA can't hope to understand. While NOE is subservient to NOJ, they have shown independence where it matters. It helps they don't have to put on a big show like E3, but they understand their role implicitly. Get games, make them available to be brought. "Selling" is an afterthought to the concept of availability for NOE. NOA is an oversized marketing department that expects games to be handed to them.
Because NOA resides in the "biggest" market, therefore gets the face time even if it doesn't represent Nintendo as a whole properly. This relationship is what is producing the all the disfunction we have seen.
Solution? Firing Reggie would be a start. Finding another Perrin Kaplan would be amazing. Non-specific action figure is an improvement at this point for NOA.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 23, 2012, 04:15:44 PM
They could also dig Howard Lincoln out of retirement. He was the man who lead NoA to greatness in the 80s and 90s.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Evan_B on June 23, 2012, 04:39:42 PM
Yeah, I dunno... Reggie just doesn't have his heart in the right place. It seems all he's ever excited about are first and third party titles that are really recognizable, and shoving those down people's throats. The end of the Wii was a sad, sad thing, and it could have been the opportunity to bless the console with some games that we never had the chance to see.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ymeegod on June 23, 2012, 05:13:55 PM
Wouldn't Xenoblade count for the WII? Or Kid Icarus: Uprising for the 3DS? Both of them target the hardcore gamers more than casuals.
Nintendo hasn't changed but the reason why you see droughts on their systems is the lack of support which is somethin they need to address.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 23, 2012, 05:39:48 PM
It most certainly WOULD, if only Reggie actually wanted to bring it over instead of having to be pressured into doing it and having Gamestop front the costs.
I agree with the previous poster's assessment that the only games Reggie gets excited about are the ones everyone knows about and recognizes. For that same reason I'm not sure if I would count Kid Icarus either, because it is an old pre-existing franchise and the character was in Smash Bros. so its not like its new or original. When it comes to fresh new games Reggie seems completely uninterested. He seems to be too afraid to take risks with new unknown franchises. He only bets on the sure thing.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Caterkiller on June 23, 2012, 05:40:46 PM
I don't understand much of the reasoning behind some posts. In the N64 and GCN days all we ever did was complain how badly Nintendo marketed it's self, for many of us that was the sole reason it lost out to Psxbox a generation ago. Nintendo stumbles upon the whole self improvement craze the world has been on about and their new systems sell an unprecedented number because the marketing was so great. Some outlets and groups might be a bit confused now, but going from one gen to the next has always had those people, blue ocean or not.
Now complaints about Reggie hyping and trying to get major IPs from 3rd parties? What the F man? Isn't that all anyone wants along with their Nintendo games?
I just don't see how Nintendo is lazy, what is it that some of you feel entitled too? I get it when people get upset about certain motion controlls, but we've gotten all our major IPs this gen and the only true rehash was Animal Crossing and to a much much lesser extent punch out.
They have showcased so much 3rd party while keeping the lid on their own projects that won't be released for a long time anyway, I don't see the issue. We know nintendos games are being worked on but many people act like they don't exist and use that as excuse to be mad at everything.
But then again maybe I am in the true minority. Things I seem to love many on these boards hate, I guess I am just different and easily content with things.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Adrock on June 23, 2012, 06:38:33 PM
I kind of feel like I'm in the minority here too. This year's E3 was far from the best E3 ever, but taking everything in over the last couple weeks, I came away with so many games I want to play. I'm on the fence with Wii U this year, but 3DS will keep me plenty busy. I'm definitely buying a 3DS XL (well, trading up to be exact) along with Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, and Code of Princess. Heroes of Ruin and New Super Mario Bros. 2 are possibilities. Those are probably too many games for me. I just don't have enough time. Maybe that's the reason I don't share the disappointment. I'm backlogged as it is so I'm pretty content with what I'm getting on Nintendo hardware.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 23, 2012, 06:44:00 PM
The 3DS has a pretty great lineup on the way, and the launch window of the Wii U looks really strong. They could have done some things better, but it's mostly stuff like the E3 presentation which isn't really important in the long run. I'm pretty happy with the way things are shaping up.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ShyGuy on June 23, 2012, 07:02:01 PM
3DS needs that one game that grabs the hearts and minds of the consumer and becomes a breakout hit. That game hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Evan_B on June 23, 2012, 07:26:27 PM
I don't understand much of the reasoning behind some posts. In the N64 and GCN days all we ever did was complain how badly Nintendo marketed it's self, for many of us that was the sole reason it lost out to Psxbox a generation ago. Nintendo stumbles upon the whole self improvement craze the world has been on about and their new systems sell an unprecedented number because the marketing was so great. Some outlets and groups might be a bit confused now, but going from one gen to the next has always had those people, blue ocean or not.
Now complaints about Reggie hyping and trying to get major IPs from 3rd parties? What the F man? Isn't that all anyone wants along with their Nintendo games?
I just don't see how Nintendo is lazy, what is it that some of you feel entitled too? I get it when people get upset about certain motion controlls, but we've gotten all our major IPs this gen and the only true rehash was Animal Crossing and to a much much lesser extent punch out.
They have showcased so much 3rd party while keeping the lid on their own projects that won't be released for a long time anyway, I don't see the issue. We know nintendos games are being worked on but many people act like they don't exist and use that as excuse to be mad at everything.
But then again maybe I am in the true minority. Things I seem to love many on these boards hate, I guess I am just different and easily content with things.
Hey man, I love Nintendo IPs too. And from this past E3, the third party support and interest on Nintendo's behlaf has been a much-welcomed thing. But is Reggie up there, playing Zombi U like he did with Wii Sports? No, he's putting his face in a camera.
See, Nintendo may have stumbled upon this casual gold-mine, but they're a gaming company, too. They make nice hardware that allows them to cater to that casual audience. And from a business standpoint, it's a nice groove they've got themselves in. But those who grew up playing their video games because of their innovation, challenge, and core experience have a right to feel betrayed, because they don't deliver in a number of ways. And the GAMERS, the ones who supported them throughout their lifetime up until the Wii (and still do- you see a number of fans defending the Wii U fervently)- and there's been a lack of localized games that make the Wii's library a joke. It's not entitlement, it's expecting the same type of quality across the board, because if we don't get that, why should we support the company? Because we want the IPs, right? Then give us more of what we want, Nintendo, and you'll undoubtedly get more support.
Nintendo is a BUSINESS. It's about supply and demand. If we don't demand, they won't supply. If they don't supply and look down on us because we're "insatiable", what does that say about them respecting us as customers? If Nintendo wanted to sell an all-casual system, they could.
These are not really my personal opinions, but they have reason to them. I understand being laid back and taking what you get, and I take advantage of the opportunities and games that my Wii provides. But it IS slim pickings sometimes, and you have to wonder why.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 23, 2012, 07:50:18 PM
It's always slim pickings when you've only really got one company making games for a system. The end of the last few Nintendo consoles, as well as the current state of the PlayStation Vita, illustrate this point.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: broodwars on June 23, 2012, 08:24:20 PM
"Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?" Hmmm...hard to say. I can see arguments both ways. On the one hand, this is the company that seems extremely fond of giving us extremely safe and by-the-numbers sequels that seem to have the minimal amount of work put into them, like the New Super Mario Bros.; the Wii _____ series; Pilotwings Resort; the N64 ports on 3DS (Ocarina & Star Fox 64) etc. It's the company that decided that making a 4th named character in New Super Mario Bros. Wii and NSMB U was too much work, so they just palette-swapped another Toad character.
But on the other hand, I just got a 3DS and before I stopped to type this I was playing Super Mario 3D Land for the first time and it is anything but lazy. It feels fresh and new with things I haven't seen before in a 3D Mario game, something I far prefer in my Nintendo games than "just how you remember it...only BETTER!" I've also been playing Mario & Luigi 3: Bowser's Inside Story, and that also feels fresh and new within its own series. This is also the company that's making Luigi's Mansion 2, a game I don't think anyone was demanding (however well people look back on that game now, at the time people were really down on that game) and which is certainly a riskier venture than just crapping out yet another Mii-based game. And despite NoA's extreme reluctance to bring the games over here, this is the company that published or developed the niche and expensive Operation Rainfall games.
I think Nintendo is the confused servant of two extremely different masters: the investors who always want the Sure Thing with the least Cost, and the developers/core gamers like us who want to push their creativity to create new experiences. Unfortunately, Sure Things are often the ones that make all the money. I really enjoy Nintendo's more creative or ambitious games, but when they probably have 5 times the development cost and 1/5 the financial return of something like a New Super Mario Bros. or Mario Kart game, it's not hard to see why the Investor half usually wins when Nintendo's planning projects. Until people either stop buying the Sure Hits in such ridiculously massive numbers or they start buying the creative games in massive numbers, we're probably not going to see this trend towards "Easy, Sure Hits with Minimal Effort" end.
As for Reggie, I've really never liked him. When he's on stage, I just don't hear the passion one would expect from a guy selling entertainment products. He never sounds like he cares about the games he is talking about. Everything's cold; calculated; condescending; and focus group-tested, conveyed with an extremely slow and dry Shatner-esque delivery. If he can't sound excited by his products, why should I be? And that's not even getting into what games Reggie allows NoA to publish in NA compared to the other regions.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ThePerm on June 23, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
The three negative phrases I keep hearing are "playing it safe", "lack of ambition", and "missing the obvious"
the one positive phrase I keep hearing is "not what i expected, but thats a good thing"
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Caterkiller on June 23, 2012, 10:04:38 PM
The loyal fans who were supporting Nintendo were disappearing in droves every generation until recently. I feel like when it comes to Mario games each one except for NSMB ds has delivered like no tomorrow. My Dk needs were met this gen and last gen, Metroid has went above and beyond the call of duty this and last gen, don't care what you all think of other m and whiny samus I enjoyed it. Zelda made me very happy despite some design issues and Kirby has been all over the place in awesomeness. Except for F zero and star fox I feel like my needs have been met. And people are complaining about Xenoblade but come on it came!
Love me some wii sports resort, love rhythm heaven, and there were some nice 3rd party titles I own as well.
Now resources were put into into Wii fit, music and who knows what else but I just ignored those. I have been loyal to Nintendo and they have been loyal to me.
People want nintendo to make the next uncharted and halo but so far that hasn't happened. Just work a little more and buy another system if it's that important to you. I know many of you do anyway, but still wouldn't buy the Nintendo version.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: shingi_70 on June 23, 2012, 10:37:50 PM
I don't get why its wrong to play it safe. Nintendo is in a state of flux and going with known sellers the first year when your trying to foster an install base and the do the more exciting things afterwards.
I mean after E3 I saw a lot of defense toward microsoft and sony and people giving them the leeway of playing it safe. Yet micrsoft does the same thing and its bad. While I'm personally want them to make me say wow I understand why they are going the routte they are going.
They are only a gaming company and putting money until crazy ecperinces that don't sale well is bad.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 23, 2012, 10:54:39 PM
The loyal fans who were supporting Nintendo were disappearing in droves every generation until recently.
Yeah, the Wii is definitely a system every core gamer loves and is playing constantly. It has never experienced any software drought, and it most certainly is not collecting dust. Thanks to the Wii, no loyal Nintendo fans have ever felt the need to buy a PS3 or 360 this generation.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Caterkiller on June 24, 2012, 12:33:15 AM
What I meant was the install base. From NES on nintendo sold less and less until the wii. We have had a long droubt these last 2 years because focus has been placed on the next gen, 3rd parties haven't been able to back Nintendo since the SNES but at least I know game development is happening somewhere. It's no excuse for such a dry spell, but don't beg for Zelda and then not finish more than 2 temples. Not you Chozo but in general. Don't quit galaxy because of shake controls and then wanted Nintendo to make more Mario. For some of you Nintendo is exactly what you ask for and at the same time everything you hate. Their output has been almost on par if not more than it was in previous gens only now we don't spend 2 years wondering when Donkey Kong and Mario are coming out, we gt it within 3-6 months of an an announcement which is fine by me.
3rd parties didn't fill the gaps during the GCN days and all of a sudden the GameCube is so popular for what ever reason on these boards. Their 3rd party support hasn't been good for ages and they can only do so much as a single entity. Only now that they are trying to broaden the gaming horizon they have abandoned us or have become lazy. Nintendo is doing more then ever with trying to win over 3rd parties, but Reggie is cold and calculating, doesn't care about games, he should be fired and so nintendos efforts don't count. What he says and does barely affects what you play anyway. You think he had the final say on getting Xenoblade over? Ha!
Nintendo is putting its foot in the right direction but still it's never enough. Also F all of you who don't want your grand parents to be able to enjoy a game with you. I would love nothing more than to be able to play wii sports resort with my mom or smash bros with my grandma.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Sarail on June 24, 2012, 02:23:22 AM
I don't get why its wrong to play it safe. Nintendo is in a state of flux and going with known sellers the first year when your trying to foster an install base and the do the more exciting things afterwards.
But see, that's the catch. They're fostering the wrong install base. Sure, this install base will make Nintendo tons of DK barrels of moolah, but when they decide to do more exciting, deeper, and more involved experiences afterwards...will this same casual install base buy these games? Definitely not. They're fickle customers who don't ultimately care about Nintendo like we do. That's the problem. And the Wii is incredible proof of that. It's just absolutely mind-boggling that it is the number one selling console, but yet has the crappiest third-party support of the three systems.
That needs to change. And fast.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ymeegod on June 24, 2012, 02:35:20 AM
"GCN days and all of a sudden the GameCube is so popular for what ever reason on these boards"
In terms of quality the GC had the better games. There's 16 90+ ranked games on the GC and only 11 for WII (two are older ports and one was an indie game). The WII has 3000+ titles yet most of them are just plain B rated games or worse. I'll take another GC generation vs another WII generation any day of the week.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Sarail on June 24, 2012, 02:56:31 AM
I still find it hilarious when people say the 'Cube didn't get good third-party support... when on my shelf of 40+ 'Cube games, sits more than half of them being third-party! Crazy.
Ah, Killer 7 and Second Sight, how I love thee.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Evan_B on June 24, 2012, 03:33:23 AM
I don't get why its wrong to play it safe. Nintendo is in a state of flux and going with known sellers the first year when your trying to foster an install base and the do the more exciting things afterwards.
But see, that's the catch. They're fostering the wrong install base. Sure, this install base will make Nintendo tons of DK barrels of moolah, but when they decide to do more exciting, deeper, and more involved experiences afterwards...will this same casual install base buy these games? Definitely not. They're fickle customers who don't ultimately care about Nintendo like we do. That's the problem. And the Wii is incredible proof of that. It's just absolutely mind-boggling that it is the number one selling console, but yet has the crappiest third-party support of the three systems.
That needs to change. And fast.
Kinda what I was hoping to say, but you said it in a better-worded way.
I'm just saying, Nintendo could create a casual-system. It would sell like hotcakes and only feature "Wii X" type games and the casual crowd would eat it up. But so far, Nintendo hasn't really done much to satiate even its core base of fans- they seem to want to attract other console gamers with their choice of third party support, but where's the first-party support? NSMBU is safe, and they know it, and will probably get good reviews just because it will be a well-designed game, but it's safe. VERY safe. Pikmin is nice to see, but as a launch title? It feels like the game was made launch because they never got around to releasing it on the Wii. Where's that real killer app?
Some would say Nintendoland, and I'd have to agree, sadly. Nintendoland is a nice attempt at bringing the casual and the core together, and that's exactly what it's supposed to do. Minigames based off of the beloved franchises. But it is still very casual based, with a lot of motion control and shallow gameplay mechanics. The Nintendo titles that innovate and challenge the already-established concepts are few and far between... and the ones that attempt to reinvent the franchise in a different light have been missing, too. Metroid: Other M was no Metroid Prime. Opinions vary on Donkey Kong. But also, where are these franchises that we absolutely loved even on the cube? Even the third-party offerings that found their home on Nintendo consoles haven't been around, and I think it's because they alienated so many developers with their casual approach (I don't think, I KNOW.). It's upsetting.
Another thing I'd like to add is that, if Nintendo wants to rely on third parties to bring westernized-type gameplay to their console, that's FINE with me. Because the westernization of Japanese franchises has been killing me softly and I don't want to see that with Nintendo... but they are kind of getting a "softcore western" feel to them with the Wii minigames and safe, casual titles. It's worrisome. Is it wrong to worry?
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Kairon on June 24, 2012, 07:13:28 AM
With every Nintendo console from here on out, I fear it becoming the GameCube 2. Not that I didn't love my GameCube, and Cubivore, and Pikmin, and Metroid Prime, and Killer 7, and Gun... but I think another generation where a system only sells 20 million units worldwide would be extremely and utterly painful no matter which way you slice it, especially in today's world of financial difficulties and studio closures.
Nintendo's working extremely hard to find ways to avoid that fate, and as a fan I'm happy to see what they've got in store for me next.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: shingi_70 on June 24, 2012, 08:12:36 AM
Honestly im expecting the Wii U to sell alittle above gamecube numbers. Its not going to touch the Wii, but hopefully theycan atill make a profit.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Tamazoid on June 24, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
The WiiU will sell more than the 64
You heard it here first.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Sarail on June 24, 2012, 10:28:39 AM
Oh, I fully believe the Wii U is going to be the most successful console next-gen - primarily because of the console's last couple of HUGE surprises that haven't been unveiled yet...but will shortly as we get closer to launch. And these secrets, that have everything to do with why this console is going to succeed, are that of controlling the entirety of the living room entertainment experience...
Controlling your cable/broadcast tv input.
This country is gonna go haywire for it. I mean, I even see Nintendo creating an actual built-in Nintendo "television channel" in to the system's "tv control" button - I think them doing that whole "Nintendo Channel" thing on Wii was an attempt at creating television content...especially Nintendo Week.
Imagine a "network" style video game channel brought to you courtesy of Nintendo and exclusive to the Wii U that broadcasts Nintendo programming on a weekly basis (Seriously, look at how the Nintendo-Directs are put together)... with commercial type advertising for game releases that plays in-between the programming? Third-parties would EAT THIS UP. And then take it a step further by having the eShop linked into the programming since it's obviously built into the hardware. It'd be one of the most interconnected game consoles of all time... both locally and online.
THIS is why I'm excited about the future of Wii U - now just gimme the games Nintendo. The good ones.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on June 24, 2012, 11:18:17 AM
I don't understand how someone could conclude a that a large company with thousands of employees is cumulatively lazy. Could you be more specific? I could understand "unoriginal," sure. I kinda think it's more likely that they are making highly calculated and active marketing decisions that you don't agree with.
Quote
They always seem to have their own interests in mind rather than those of their customers.
I don't understand how someone could conclude a that a large company with thousands of employees is cumulatively lazy. Could you be more specific? I could understand "unoriginal," sure. I kinda think it's more likely that they are making highly calculated and active marketing decisions that you don't agree with.
It's just like how 2d Mario is a casual game now. Things change to fit people's narrative.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 25, 2012, 06:21:34 PM
"Lazy" in this context is kind of a mean way of saying "formulaic".
One thing I can't stand about casual games like Wii Sports is the intentional lack of ambition. Like I can't move in tennis? I can't field in baseball? I can't even play 9 innings if I WANT to? That kind of dumbed down **** drives me nuts. And they use this simplistic graphic design to be more inviting to everyone and they use player avatars instead of characters. I understand the design decision to do it that way but it sure is convenient that they found success with such a game since a lack of options means they don't have to design as much content, a simplistic graphics design requires less effort from the artists and using Miis means they don't have to design any characters like Nintendo had to do in the past for Wave Race and 1080. The formula for a casual game also allows Nintendo to cut corners in game design. They can make a cheaper game with less content and less effort and it sells like hot cakes. This is totally the wrong lesson for any videogame company to learn. It comes across as times like Nintendo has found the ultimate formula where they put in the least amount of effort they can get away with and still have a hit game.
And that is reflected in little ways like how there is no need to come up with a logical fourth character for NSMB when a second Toad is "good enough". Or how they can have so much public domain music in Wii Music or how they can just take Wuhu Island and the Miis and shove then into Pilotwings. In the earlier Pilotwings they had to actually design characters and levels and such. No such effort needed here. The Miis are the ultimate "get out of character design FREE" card for Nintendo. And Nintendo loves an excuse to re-release old games with some new gimmick. You almost figure part of the incentive to make the Wii was to re-release Cube games with waggle controls.
I don't know if this bare bones effort formula was part of their intention for the Wii but they sure embraced it once the system took off.
Look at Nintendo Land. So you have Miis, which they can just recycle from Wii Sports and EXISTING Nintendo IP which cuts out the character, story or setting design part of the game. The visual presentation requires no real effort graphically. And instead of some sort of ambitious game that demonstrates the new features of the controller like Super Mario 64 did for the N64, we get a collection of tech demos like Wii Sports was. Who needs to develop a real game when you just paste tech demos into some mini-game collection, lift the Mii models from existing games and throw in some familiar Nintendo IP to tie it all together? It's like every shortcut that can be taken is made. When I think of Nintendo being lazy THAT is the kind of bullshit I'm thinking of. Nintendo Land is a demonstration of how to get away with the least amount of effort possible.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 25, 2012, 07:14:12 PM
Let me say here that I really enjoyed what I played of Nintendo Land, and it felt like Nintendo put a lot of effort into it, much more so than Wii Sports. I'm pretty sure it'll be packed in, but if it isn't I'll probably buy it separately because 4 of the 5 games they showed at E3 were really fun.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 25, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
Let me say here that I really enjoyed what I played of Nintendo Land, and it felt like Nintendo put a lot of effort into it, much more so than Wii Sports. I'm pretty sure it'll be packed in, but if it isn't I'll probably buy it separately because 4 of the 5 games they showed at E3 were really fun.
Just out of curiousity, what was wrong with the 5th game?
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 25, 2012, 07:28:14 PM
The fifth game (Takamura's Ninja Castle) wasn't really bad, but it wasn't on the same level as the other four. I could see myself sinking hours into Donkey Kong and Animal Crossing, but I'd probably only play Takamura for a few minutes every now and then. It's a decent tech demo, and is fun in short bursts, but the others are a lot more fleshed out.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: ShyGuy on June 25, 2012, 07:29:14 PM
Nintendo Land is your only chance to play F-Zero in HD, nerds. Give Nintendo your money and tears.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 26, 2012, 12:21:51 PM
3rd parties didn't fill the gaps during the GCN days and all of a sudden the GameCube is so popular for what ever reason on these boards.
3rd Parties released a lot of games for the GCN in its first three years. We got a ton of support during that time. Nintendo's problem is they didn't know how to market their system. They chose to go one route and the masses did not follow.
The reason why the GCN is popular around here is not because the system was successful. Far from it. I remember that there were constant complaints about how Nintendo was selling the system wrong and they needed to do more marketing and all that stuff. What was not complained about were the games that they released. Yes there were some droughts (including the normal one at the end of the console's lifecycle). But 90% of the Nintendo games were well received around here. The Wii has the opposite. The marketing was amazing. They sold that system to people who never picked up video games in their lives. The problem with the Wii was that people around here were not enjoying the games like past systems. So, they look fondly at the GCN because they don't remember complaining about those games.
My personal opinion was that I enjoyed the GCN more but mainly because I believe the controller to be the greatest controller of all time. So any game that I could play with that controller, I would do it. It's the only way I played Brawl or Mario Kart. Give me a pro controller for the Wii U designed like the GCN controller and I would buy 12 of them (over a long period of time as I can't afford that many at once :) ).
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2012, 01:27:00 PM
On the Gamecube I could trust that when Nintendo released a new game it was almost always great. On the Wii I could no longer trust that, mostly because I knew some bullshit controls were going to be shoehorned in. Since the N64, Nintendo consoles have been largely defined on the first party output and I just find the Wii's first party output to be the weakest of all their consoles. The Gamecube's first party library is just superior.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2012, 04:11:20 PM
On the Gamecube I could trust that when Nintendo released a new game it was almost always great. On the Wii I could no longer trust that, mostly because I knew some bullshit controls were going to be shoehorned in.
Actually, my personal experience is the opposite. On the GameCube I lost my faith in Nintendo's first-armor purity. I didn't love Sunshine, nor Windwaker. I didn't get into Pikmin 2. I found Mario Kart 7 meh. I loved many games on GameCube, but I also found myself questioning Nintendo's ability to keep delivering the game and mind-expanding magic I'd known them for up until that system.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2012, 04:45:03 PM
On the Gamecube I could trust that when Nintendo released a new game it was almost always great. On the Wii I could no longer trust that, mostly because I knew some bullshit controls were going to be shoehorned in.
Actually, my personal experience is the opposite. On the GameCube I lost my faith in Nintendo's first-armor purity. I didn't love Sunshine, nor Windwaker. I didn't get into Pikmin 2. I found Mario 3D Kart meh. I loved many games on GameCube, but I also found myself questioning Nintendo's ability to keep delivering the game and mind-expanding magic I'd known them for up until that system.
Actually I also found myself questioning Nintendo's ability to keep delivering the goods and largely because of games like Sunshine and WW. Only in retrospect I look at it as the warning signs for what was to come with the Wii. They were slipping on the Cube but it didn't get to a point where I lost faith in them. Basically Nintendo's output on the Cube was still consistently great but often noticably inferior to their N64 efforts. It suggested that they had peaked.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2012, 05:02:24 PM
On the Gamecube I could trust that when Nintendo released a new game it was almost always great. On the Wii I could no longer trust that, mostly because I knew some bullshit controls were going to be shoehorned in.
Actually, my personal experience is the opposite. On the GameCube I lost my faith in Nintendo's first-armor purity. I didn't love Sunshine, nor Windwaker. I didn't get into Pikmin 2. I found Mario 3D Kart meh. I loved many games on GameCube, but I also found myself questioning Nintendo's ability to keep delivering the game and mind-expanding magic I'd known them for up until that system.
Actually I also found myself questioning Nintendo's ability to keep delivering the goods and largely because of games like Sunshine and WW. Only in retrospect I look at it as the warning signs for what was to come with the Wii. They were slipping on the Cube but it didn't get to a point where I lost faith in them. Basically Nintendo's output on the Cube was still consistently great but often noticably inferior to their N64 efforts. It suggested that they had peaked.
Yeah. I felt it pretty extremely in the GC days, I'm not a fan of Nintendo just because of "great" games, but also because of "new" ones. Which is why I am a big fan of the Wii and what it did for them. I strongly believe that Nintendo's innovation isn't just in software, it's in how their software interacts with their hardware. Nintendo needed to refresh that dynamic to recapture their momentum and I feel they did just that.
I must say though that I completely understand your dislike of the resulting dilution and fading from prominence of Nintendo's trademark crisply responsive controls that resulted. I LOVED the GC controller and part of the reason I'm a Nintendo fan is that (I delude myself into believing) I can tell a Miyamoto game by TOUCH. There's just that magical melding of hand and controller and mind and game that I LOVE Mario games for, and even Pikmin. *sighs happily* The devaluation of that on the Wii is a valid point in many respects, but given the context I'm still quite happy to have a Wii instead of a GameCube 2.
Title: Re: Is Nintendo Becoming Lazy?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 26, 2012, 05:11:44 PM
I don't understand how someone could conclude a that a large company with thousands of employees is cumulatively lazy. Could you be more specific? I could understand "unoriginal," sure. I kinda think it's more likely that they are making highly calculated and active marketing decisions that you don't agree with.
Agreed. Not understanding what is meant by "lazy" when you can be sure Nintendo is trying to squeeze all of their available resources to create profitable revenue drivers. They are very busy people over there and, hopefully, feeling a sense of desperation to prove their products because this transitional period is the most dangerous time to lose market and mind share.
Their marketing direction however, especially regarding my own U.S. home market, is not something I am pleased with. I definitely think they can improve on the way they communicate with their customer base, their scope in promoting titles and most recently I am questioning their market awareness (looking at their colour choices for 3DS XL launch). They were out-marketed by a grass-roots fan-driven loose organization for pitys sake, and while we are on the topic of Rainfall, NOA's localization efforts could use a revamp. I refuse to believe Atlus and XSeed can find a profitable business model and Nintendo cannot...not to mention their stone-faced acceptance of the PR hit they took at the time.
In a broad sense, I also think that the main leadership is struggling to identify and establish the core of what their products offer going forward. Wii U, as potentially cool as it may be, is looking like a train wreck in terms of marketing what it is and who it is for. Value is shifting in this industry, who captures it and how, and I fear Nintendo is unsure how to respond and move forward.
