Author Topic: Not a hater but... (future prediction)  (Read 102846 times)

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Offline Stogi

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #125 on: January 23, 2017, 04:21:02 PM »
^Nice

I'm on board the Switch train now. I don't think I'll buy it at launch though. I still think it's a better idea for me to buy a Wii U, Zelda, and scoop up all the games I missed for the system. But I really do think the Switch will be a success.

Despite Nintendo's fumbles (much of which can be fixed after launch), the Switch provides a set of very unique use cases that simply cannot happen on any other console. And because of those cases, it will gather a lot of attention.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #126 on: January 23, 2017, 05:06:44 PM »
I'm not buying a Switch at launch, because I missed the pre-sell window. Also, more complicated financial reasons.

I'll try to nab one during the fall though.

Also, e3 is either going to go three ways. Either Nintendo has something new, Nintendo Disappoints, or Nintendo just continues the messaging. Last e3 we expected a whole lot more than just Zelda, we expected maybe something more about switch considering it comes out in 39 days. Nintendo has proven though, it really doesn't need e3. However e3 is a good time to release information.

This year it is almost as if we already had e3. Mario is all we would need. I would imagine this e3 they'll show a playable version of Mario. They might show off other games, but it could just be Mario.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 05:15:08 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline KeyBilly

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #127 on: January 23, 2017, 05:44:46 PM »
They could have a big Mario landscape and only that if they plan to make that their new E3 style and instead give most of their information through Directs.  It might be wise to show third party support (if they have it), since the lineup now is very sparse.  It would also be a good time to introduce some alternative Joycons or other hardware news.

Pokemon Stars is the perfect distraction from an otherwise slow start in gaining support.  I don't see myself buying it, since I already have Moon, but it will surely sell well.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #128 on: January 23, 2017, 06:29:29 PM »
Also, e3 is either going to go three ways. Either Nintendo has something new, Nintendo Disappoints, or Nintendo just continues the messaging. Last e3 we expected a whole lot more than just Zelda, we expected maybe something more about switch considering it comes out in 39 days. Nintendo has proven though, it really doesn't need e3. However e3 is a good time to release information.


I think it can really only go one of two ways: Nintendo shows they've got more great stuff coming or they disappoint.  I think there will be a slew of Directs that fill out the release schedule a little more, but I think E3 could make or break momentum going into the holiday.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #129 on: January 23, 2017, 06:35:00 PM »
I'm really hoping for whatever Retro is making.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #130 on: January 24, 2017, 11:24:23 AM »
I worry that because it's been so long, the expectations have become unrealistic for Retro.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #131 on: January 25, 2017, 01:34:41 AM »
Well, at this point I don't expect anything from Retro. I hope for Metroid, but I generally expect it to be treated as if it is in F-Zero territory. There was a blurb from about 2 years back saying Metroid should be on a next gen console other than Wii U. From the sounds of it though. They hadn't even started. At that point we were still disappointed we hadn't seen the powerhouse version of metroid.

https://gamerant.com/metroid-prime-nx-release-645/

which perfectly plays into the Metroid Federation Force ending (Spoilers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-goCv7zyBWU

I'm terrified that Metroid will not be Metroid in the future. I can take alternate styles on Mario and Zelda, but Metroid I cannot.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:36:27 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #132 on: January 25, 2017, 03:18:31 AM »
I'm terrified that Metroid will not be Metroid in the future. I can take alternate styles on Mario and Zelda, but Metroid I cannot.

And this is the exact reason Metroid is a low priority series for Nintendo right now.  Metroid has never been a huge series and yet it has one of the most close minded fanbase in gaming.  Anything that's not considered pure Metroid, is basically **** on, even great games like Fusion and Prime 3 because much of the fanbase doesn't consider them pure enough.  Oh and then when you get flawed but still good games like Other M or Federation Force that tried to do something different, many Metroid fans will literally turn into terrorist and blow themselves up online over just the mention of those games.

That's the problem, Nintendo wants to expand the Metroid franchise so it appeals to a wider audience but the fanbase goes ape **** over anything that isn't a rehash of Super Metroid or Prime 1.  Why spend a **** load of money on something that's not guaranteed to be a hit and has a core audience that will literally send death threats and harass the creators of said game.

Now I still believe we'll get a new Metroid in the future but it's not hard to see why Nintendo has been taking it's time, especially when it's studio's can work on any other franchise and not have to worry about the kind of harassment Metroid fans will give them, on top of said games selling better then any Metroid game would have as well.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #133 on: January 25, 2017, 03:57:05 AM »
I wouldn't mind a Metroid in Breath of the Wild Style. The thing about Metroid is it has a serious tone. It's a series that got its inspiration from Alien movie series. The Prime series were actually million sellers. It just doesn't seem like Nintendo treats the series with the same revelry as their other series because it wasn't one Miyamoto developed.
I think a lot of people want to see what Metroid Prime would look like on new hardware. I think a lot of people wanted to see that when Wii was coming out as well. With Wii U we were hoping to get it at the beginning of a generation. It had been awhile since a Metroid game had came out, Wii U was far more powerful than previous hardware. Then nothing happened.

Nintendo should not try to expand Metroid to a wider audience. The best selling game of last year was Call of Duty. I'm not saying make Metroid like call of duty. I'm saying take Metroid back to its roots. You're a Bounty Hunter in space, you're in a cave, or alien ruins, filled with scary aliens.  Not everything Other M: Did was wrong. It had some decent directions. A lot of what was wrong with Other M was they didn't get good translators, and when the created the Wii Mote they didn't realize they created a controller that had limited possibilities.
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Offline KeyBilly

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #134 on: January 25, 2017, 01:40:38 PM »
Metroid has a unique place in Nintendo's IP.  I don't think it needs to be expanded, but it could be updated and improved.  Games like Federation Force don't need the IP.  If it doesn't make the game better or act as much leverage for sales, then it is only watering down the brand.  People were happy with the pinball game, if only because it was so good and sci-fi series are traditionally turned into pinball games.

An open world Metroid on an alien planet could be awesome.  It would actually be closer to the feeling I originally had with Metroid, similar to BotW recapturing the feeling of exploration that was largely in our imaginations in the original Zelda.  I don't want to get my hopes up, though.  A traditional 2D Metroid would still be fun.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #135 on: January 25, 2017, 02:23:22 PM »
After playing Axiom verge I wouldn't mind a good updated 2d Metroid. One that takes full advantage of a controller. I don't mind more options. On the other hand Nintendo could whip together any 2d game and if it doesn't take them 2 months to make then they have a real internal problem.

What would really be cool is a new Metroid Prime game with an additional Metroid Maker editor. You could have the best of both worlds.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #136 on: January 25, 2017, 03:02:12 PM »
Nintendo should not try to expand Metroid to a wider audience. The best selling game of last year was Call of Duty. I'm not saying make Metroid like call of duty. I'm saying take Metroid back to its roots.

But Metroid at its roots, as you would go on to describe, is not thing like Call of Duty.  Not sure why bring it up other than to say FPSes are popular.  But CoD sells on strength of online multiplayer, which isn't Metroid at its roots.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #137 on: January 25, 2017, 04:10:32 PM »
Call of Duty is not a kids game. My problem would be if they took Metroid and made it more kid friendly in an effort to improves sells. Federation force seems to have that directions. It isn't a mainline game so it doesn't deserve the same level of scrutiny for this. A mainline Metroid game would.

I don't want to see a chibi Samus. Zelda could get away with this because in the original Zelda Link was a little elf. Metroid should have a tone somewhere between Aliens and Star Wars. Miyamoto once said that when he makes games, he doesn't make them to appeal to a certain audience, usually his sensibilities are kid friendly though. I don't want them to make big headed little bodied Samus for kids to get big sales. That doesn't mean those wouldn't be good games, but I want their motives to be art motivated and not commercially motivated. There are some cases where over commercialism has actually backfired against the tastes of fans. Look at Batman and Robin for an example.

Also, it would be really counter-intuitive to the system. When Wii U came out we didn't see too many games that took advantage of the hardware from Nintendo themselves. I saw a few from Ubisoft, but only Pikmin 3 and Mario Kart really looked fantastic. Honestly, it seems like Nintendo pushed the Wii more than the Wii U. Wii U has Breath of the Wild coming out, but only in its Twilight days.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #138 on: January 25, 2017, 04:29:22 PM »
I've made this point a lot but Nintendo seems to think that "mass appeal" means that every game has to appeal to all audiences.  They don't understand the idea of less popular franchises with dedicated fanbases being a system seller to a specific demographic of gamers.  You get that with genres.  Every generation seems to have one console that becomes the shmup console or the RPG console.  That doesn't sell to every mainstream consumer out there but for the people that are passionate about those genres that console becomes a must-own and if they only buy one system not being that console could cost you a sale.  These groups aren't big like the Wii Sports crowd but the numbers add up and being the console for everyone means being the console for this group and that group and that group and they all may have totally different tastes.

Metroid is not a system seller for the mainstream but it IS for Metroid fans.  So if they offer a non-shitty Metroid game they just sold some systems.  And that adds to the sales figures which attracts more support which gives your console more variety which means it appeals to more people which should increase sales.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #139 on: January 25, 2017, 07:02:43 PM »
Call of Duty is not a kids game.

LMAO
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #140 on: January 26, 2017, 12:04:08 AM »
well you got me there. I just play single player on Call of Duty. I burned out on counter strike.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #141 on: January 26, 2017, 11:22:48 AM »
Metroid needs to be reinvented in a way that appeals to classic fans (no death threats) and a more modern audience. Giving the franchise an action-oriented design in Other M was one attempt at this. A lot of the decisions being made in Breath of the Wild make a lot of sense if applied to Metroid: free-roaming an open world with challenges that allow the player to upgrade their health and abilities, making the game about survival and player approach, and the option to engage in the story or not.

However, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what Metroid needs is Platinum Games. Bear with me here, because this is the first time I would ever consider letting Platinum touch a franchise I actually love- I would say that the best parts of Other M are when Samus is vaulting around and kicking ass, getting characters in headlocks and blasting the crap out of them with missiles. The boss fights in particular were pretty cinematic and thrilling. The flaws were the story elements, gating of previous areas, and the control mapping. I'd say a number of the challenges players could tackle during the limited exploration segments in order to obtain power ups were actually quite substantial, and I enjoyed a lot of them.

While boss fights are integral to Metroid, Fusion took the approach a step further and streamlined the action of the game in order to deliver a more tightly-action-oriented approach. While Platinum has a penchant for delivering on such action, they could expand on Samus' play style (and her use of projectile weapons in a similar vein to Bayonetta) with their control schemes, and maybe even experiment with non-linear progression and power up acquisition in a way they haven't in the past. The way Platinum integrates combat moves and allows them to change enemy encounters, such as those present in The Wonderful 101, Metal Gear Rising, and Bayonetta, could be a good fit for Metroid, and allow players to tackle individual runs in their own ways. Likewise, while they could have certain power ups be mandatory for unlocking newer areas and boss fights in the game, if they were to create solid combat fundamentals and have earlier bosses toy with the core mechanics of the game, it might be a great way for players to once again approach the game in their own fashion.

While it would end up combining two of the most volatile gaming communities (Metroid elitists and Platinum elitists), I think that it could be executed properly and take the best parts of Other M and improve upon them. It might even be an easier game to develop. Plus, the Metroid elitists might clash so heavily with Platinum fans that the ensuing battle would wipe both communities out and pave the way for a better future.

EDIT: I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings about being a Platinum Games fan- however, there's a very tiny, very dedicated group of people that think Platinum make under-appreciated masterpieces and complain when their games underperform. The reason for this, of course, is that precision/mastery-based character action games aren't necessarily a hot commodity, and that, like many technical games that take time to master, they aren't what the majority of gamers out there want to play on their down-time. Team-based, technical and performance-based games are the hotter commodity.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 01:50:52 PM by Evan_B »
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Offline Clonester11

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #142 on: January 26, 2017, 06:34:01 PM »
I've made this point a lot but Nintendo seems to think that "mass appeal" means that every game has to appeal to all audiences.  They don't understand the idea of less popular franchises with dedicated fanbases being a system seller to a specific demographic of gamers.  You get that with genres.  Every generation seems to have one console that becomes the shmup console or the RPG console.  That doesn't sell to every mainstream consumer out there but for the people that are passionate about those genres that console becomes a must-own and if they only buy one system not being that console could cost you a sale.  These groups aren't big like the Wii Sports crowd but the numbers add up and being the console for everyone means being the console for this group and that group and that group and they all may have totally different tastes.

Metroid is not a system seller for the mainstream but it IS for Metroid fans.  So if they offer a non-shitty Metroid game they just sold some systems.  And that adds to the sales figures which attracts more support which gives your console more variety which means it appeals to more people which should increase sales.

That's a very good point. It reminds me of another example: Baseball fans. If you want to play on a console, you have to buy a PS4 for The Show.

Also, I'm not sure why some are saying Metroid needs to be re-invented. Metroid Prime was (is) such an amazing and appealing game. It was refreshing to play at the time. If Metroid comes back, and I hope it does, it needs to be a "Prime" game. I was really hoping the Switch reveal would include a new Metroid Prime game from Retro (or a fresh new franchise from them in a similar mold/genre). I guess we will find out eventually what they are working on.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 08:47:09 PM by Clonester11 »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #143 on: January 26, 2017, 10:32:29 PM »
There are a couple of games that are very Metroid-eque that aren't really associated with Metroid.

Half-Life, and Portal. With Portal it is very SciFi gun oriented and that gun is used to solve puzzles that get you through the game. Unlike Metroid these games are really linear. Zelda is less linear, but still linear.  I don't say they are similar simply because of the perspective. Some of the ways you interact is pretty similar. Some aspects of Metal Gear Solid remind me of Metroid.

If I were to make Metroid different. I would make it Gigantic. All Nintendo would really need to do is tinker with the Breath of the Wild engine(Which I guess is related to the Xenoblade engine?)

« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:37:12 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #144 on: January 26, 2017, 10:42:23 PM »
Focusing on the action is about the last thing I want a Metroid game to concentrate on. This is one reason among many that Other M sucked.

I like the suggestion about scope. They could greatly expand on the ship element of Prime 3, make part of the game mediated through the cockpit to deal with different/larger-scale spins on the traditional Metroid formula. I'm thinking maybe something distantly related to The Minish Cap.

And hey, that could incorporate a more actiony-spin on the combat as well, imported from Metroid Blast from Nintendoland!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 10:51:55 PM by MagicCow64 »

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #145 on: January 26, 2017, 11:06:42 PM »
If you look at Zelda and you look at Metroid. Zelda has bigger environments. Metroid is deep in caverns.

Super Metroid takes place on planet Zebes. Imagine if the world was just huge though. The hud area on Metroid Prime is really not very big, but imagine if it was the size of hyrule field and there were tons and tons and tons and tons of caverns to crawl into.

If I were to improve anything it would probably be the platforming aspect. Having played games like Assassins creed,prince of persia, and Last of Us there are more advanced ways to navigate a world. They should probably have a lock-on Auto aim like Metroid Prime or Zelda(With the option of first person free fire)
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #146 on: January 27, 2017, 12:05:53 AM »
While I love Prime, it was clear by Corruption that Retro neither had the will or the talent to make a game like the original Prime again. Let it be what it is, and don't resurrect it just to have a First-Person title in the Switch library.


Having played enough Assassin's Creed to last a lifetime (aka one game, god it was boring) I think the movement options in that series are definitely not what Metroid needs.
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #147 on: January 27, 2017, 01:09:18 AM »
Why does it need to be like Prime 1? Then people would complain it's too similar! I haven't played in awhile but I do remember it did lots of new things: took away the pure isolation the series was known for, added powerups that hadn't been done in the 3D games yet, the motion aiming was brilliant, the little interactive bits with motion controls was fun, it added some linearity so the game journalist crybabies could actually finish the game, then it finished the story arc with Samus blowing up the planet and saving the day. Come on, that's plenty of talent. That is THE best you could possibly hope for in a sequel.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #148 on: January 27, 2017, 01:23:12 AM »
Prime 3 is overly repetitive and gimmicky. It relied too heavily on grapple tomfoolery and the aiming was just okay. The ridding of the isolationist angle was the only passable element, but it was a drastic tonal shift.

It is not as good as Prime 1. It's as simple as that.

Metroid needs to stop being what we WANT it to be- that was the philosophy that made Prime such a surprise and delight. I don't want another Prime game. I don't want another Other M, and honestly, I don't trust Nintendo to make another 2D Metroid that doesn't ape from the original, because the two most "different" 2D Metroids both aren't fun.

These are opinions, of course, but I'd rather see the series move in a different direction.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Not a hater but... (future prediction)
« Reply #149 on: January 27, 2017, 04:37:14 AM »
I liked Prime 3 more than Prime 2.  Prime 3 was very engaging and fun to me.  But Prime 2 was too difficult.