Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 663744 times)

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Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #800 on: March 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM »
The console flopped, but the controller idea could still be viable, if the games can be there.  Multiple gamepads would be one of the main ways you get the idea going.  Moving on from Wiimotes is another.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #801 on: March 21, 2016, 04:34:01 PM »
The console flopped, but the controller idea could still be viable, if the games can be there.  Multiple gamepads would be one of the main ways you get the idea going.  Moving on from Wiimotes is another.

Multiple Gamepads sounds expensive.  Plus this screen-in-the-controller idea was also promoted as this big ace in the hole for the Gamecube and no fucks were given then either.

I think it is very telling that after a generation of motion controls and guitar controllers, the PS4 won this generation almost instantly by simply being a conventional videogame console.  Sony didn't ask anyone to compromise hardware or pay extra for controller gimmicks, while Nintendo and Microsoft did, and the PS4 cleaned their clocks.  I can't think of a more clear rejection of such concepts as that.

The time for bullshit is over.  No gimmicks, no distractions, no tradeoffs, no "please understand"s.  Nintendo needs to make a great console with great games that meets the expectations of video game customers in 2016 and the years to come.

Plus Nintendo failed to deliver on all their promises of innovation and such for both the Wiimote and Gamepad.  Both ideas end up being pretty half-baked and generally restricted to glorified tech demos, regardless of how many Wii's were sold.  So you don't think that consumers aren't going to remember that?  That after a generation of the Gamepad failing to meet it's potential that they're going to think that THIS time it will be different and the truly brilliant and innovative games are going to come?  No, they're going to quite reasonably assume a repeat of prior generations.  If Nintendo had such awesome ideas for a screen in a controller they would have done them on the Wii U.  Why would they sit on great ideas while the Wii U struggled?  Why would they launch the console with a glorified tech demo and a 2D platformer if they had something better in mind?  And if they just needed time to develop that great idea it would have shown up by now.

Something that was just a great console with no bullshit would be quite out-of-character for Nintendo.  That would suggest Nintendo has changed and that is what will get people interested in them again.  The same old Nintendo is the Wii U and no one bought it.  They're not going to buy anything that suggests a repeat of recent Nintendo generations and doubling down on the screen controller idea would be doing exactly that.

Offline Adrock

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #802 on: March 22, 2016, 08:00:25 AM »
Multiple Gamepads sounds expensive.  Plus this screen-in-the-controller idea was also promoted as this big ace in the hole for the Gamecube and no fucks were given then either.
A Dual Shock 4 is $59.99 MSRP. Expensive controllers has been the cross gamers bore if they've wanted to play multiplayer.

And GameCube-Gameboy Advance connectivity is not comparable to the GamePad beyond "there's a screen." The latter provides far more freedom from a gameplay and development standpoint. It's really weird that you keep bringing this up. It's especially convenient that you ignore all the reasons why the connectivity didn't catch on because you can't simply reduce it to people giving no fucks about a screen on a controller.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #803 on: March 22, 2016, 08:13:20 AM »
Of all the reasons the Wii U failed, I think the use of the GamePad is pretty far down the list. Releasing hardware more in line with the standards of the industry, with better support for developers, that wouldn't be obsolete just a year later would have gone a long way toward success, whereas I doubt dropping the GamePad would have helped much.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #804 on: March 22, 2016, 10:28:41 AM »
Sony didn't make the Move a major part of the PS4, but it's part of their VR thing, right?  I'd say Sony is still doing the gimmicks, but they're just doing it halfway, as always.  And that VR is expensive.

I think the GC/GBA thing didn't work because not as many people had GBAs as Nintendo thought, and, IIRC, the cables were kinda hard to find (though you got on free with a game).
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Offline supermario2k

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #805 on: March 22, 2016, 10:39:27 AM »
I can't comment on why GBA-GC failed because I ate it up, I loved it I had a GBA and cable and thought it was awesome so what do I know. I also really love the Wii U but I get why someone who keeps bringing up the SNES doesn't.

I guess that probably doesn't make my excitement for VR amount to much either except I do see a lot of hype around it, and it's not looking like just a gimmick this time it looks like the industry has figured out how to do it right and make it affordable, sure $399 is a lot for an add on but it's not like it will be at that price forever. I read an article that Move was created with VR in mind and that Sony has been taking incremental steps for decades to get where they are because that was what the industry needed. Wii was pretty close to VR minus the headset and it sold pretty well.

I would love to play Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Kirby, DK, all in VR and I hope Nintendo prepares for that. This round of VR is like the current round of 3D, everyone was ready for it but just waiting for the technology to catch up and we are finally there. It is going to be pricey at first but not so expensive people won't buy it. This round of VR will set up the next round which will be more affordable with all the bugs worked out. This is PS1 for VR, next gen will be PS2 for VR that is when it will really take off.

I also don't think Sony won this gen just by having a traditional controller their Dual Shock 4 is the most unconventional controller they have ever bundled with a console sure it feels similar enough to traditional but it's done some new things too.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #806 on: March 22, 2016, 12:23:54 PM »
Putting a screen in a controller costs money, right?  That money has to come from somewhere.  In the case of the Gamecube the cost was covered by the customer.  You had to own a GBA, which was a fully featured handheld videogame system and therefore was a fair chunk of change, and you had to buy the cable to connect the two.  With the Wii U, Nintendo tried to keep the costs to the customer lower but they had to compromise the hardware to do it.  Why else do you think Sony and MS lapped them in a year?  And why with their clearly inferior hardware that shouldn't cost nearly as much to produce as the XB1 and PS4 do Nintendo never cut the price of the Wii U despite it floundering at the price point it STILL is at with the NX at our door step?  They couldn't because the controller was too expensive.  It's not a matter of getting rid of the controller after the fact.  The problem with the Gamepad is that it shouldn't have been there in the first place and all the compromises that had to be made to adopt it made the overall product undesirable to consumers.

And that's my point about the concept as a whole.  Some sort of compromise has to be made for an idea like this.  Consumers will not pay extra for it and they will not accept expected features being cut or hardware being compromised.  If Nintendo had been able to demonstrate the feature as something truly worthwhile then maybe consumers would be willing to deal with some sort of tradeoff, but they didn't.

So if the NX has this touchscreen controller then either the price is going to be higher or the hardware will be compromised and why would anyone put up with that when history suggests the feature will barely be used?  How is that worth what the consumer has to give up for it?  So unless Nintendo eats the cost of this thing themselves or immediately sells us on this concept they've failed to sell us on after years of opportunities to do so, the concept is poison.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #807 on: March 22, 2016, 12:30:49 PM »
You're still leaving out the fact that the system was, and very much still is, hurting for games.  While the Wii U has a number of very solid releases, the schedule very sparse over the past few years.  Most of that was Nintendo's fault for not getting over the HD learning curve because of the Wii, and not the gamepad.
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #808 on: March 22, 2016, 01:28:46 PM »
I don't get the appeal of VR gaming for classic franchises. I don't want to play a third person adventure game on a VR screen, that makes no sense to me.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #809 on: March 22, 2016, 01:37:56 PM »
VR seems similar to motion control to me in that for a small subset of games it could be really cool, but in most cases it's either not an improvement at all or is atively worse.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #810 on: March 22, 2016, 02:31:43 PM »
You're still leaving out the fact that the system was, and very much still is, hurting for games.  While the Wii U has a number of very solid releases, the schedule very sparse over the past few years.  Most of that was Nintendo's fault for not getting over the HD learning curve because of the Wii, and not the gamepad.

Releasing a last gen console a mere one year before the actual next generation destroyed third party support and that more than anything made the console hurting for games.  If Nintendo's approach is to compromise hardware again for some wacky controller then they're not making a real effort to improve third party support so they're not making a real effort to fix the Wii U's biggest problem.

And Nintendo is facing irrelevance here.  What chances do they have to ever have a viable console again if this one flops as well?  And the handheld market is drying up so they won't have that as safety net anymore.  So this is NOT the time to get cute or push their luck by doubling down on failed ideas or asking consumers to compromise this or that.  This is "put up or shut up" time.  Hell I fear their brand might be so damaged that even a perfect effort might fail.  But to even entertain the idea of going with gimmicky bullshit yet again or anything even resembling the Wii U is nuts.  Nintendo can play ball or they can leave the videogame industry for something else WHEN the NX fails because of their utter refusal to learn any lessons from their past failures.  A failure like the Wii U is a wake up call that you're on the wrong path, not a suggestion that you're just a few tweaks away from the same concept working out.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #811 on: March 22, 2016, 02:48:51 PM »
I wouldn't say the hardware being underpowered was the number one killer of support.  Nintendo has a reputation of being hard to deal with for 3rd parties.  That's something they need to fix.  They also upset EA at some point, so their ability to build and maintain relationships isn't up to snuff.  When 3rd parties are trying to put games on the system but can't because they have to communicate on a time lag and through a language barrier, then you don't have a hardware issue.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #812 on: March 22, 2016, 03:57:09 PM »
The hardware being significantly different from the standard third party developers were used to and Nintendo's less-than-stellar relationships with those developers were much bigger factors than the relative power of the system. If the NX is an x86, basically just standard PC components kind of box like Sony and Microsoft are doing and Nintendo works with publishers more closely and effectively than they have in the past, they'll be fine.
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Offline Soren

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #813 on: March 23, 2016, 01:15:43 PM »
I know this sounds like a total overreaction, but I will not buy NX if that ends up being the controller. A life without buttons to press is not worth living.
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Offline Parallax Scroll

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #814 on: March 23, 2016, 01:25:02 PM »
New pictures of the NX controller:










Quote
- Only the upper 'nubs' of the sticks move. The bottom part is static (kind of like the circle pad, but it moves along the bottom 'sphere'.
- The rollers on the top feel and look pretty much identical to a mouse scroll-wheel. Though I do don't believe this will be the final design.
- Haptic feedback is feels like Apples 'taptic' engine. Not like regular rumble.
- 3.5mm headphone jack on the bottom


https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/4bn6nm/nx_controller_pictures/














Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #815 on: March 23, 2016, 01:33:19 PM »
It's true...all of it!




Magnetic buttons people!

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #816 on: March 23, 2016, 01:37:19 PM »
What sort of sensation would "magnetic buttons" create? I'm kind of confused by this concept.

The design is kinda attractive without the handles. Is this the "mobile" iteration, with the handles being used for the home console? Or the handles might just be a shell to fit on the thing.

I'm still skeptical about the whole thing though.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #817 on: March 23, 2016, 01:38:19 PM »
CONFIDENTIAL PROPERTY

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #818 on: March 23, 2016, 01:43:01 PM »
Macbook has Sweedish (I think) button layout. Quick, who's a big, European developer? 

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #819 on: March 23, 2016, 01:45:10 PM »
What sort of sensation would "magnetic buttons" create? I'm kind of confused by this concept.

The design is kinda attractive without the handles. Is this the "mobile" iteration, with the handles being used for the home console? Or the handles might just be a shell to fit on the thing.

I'm still skeptical about the whole thing though.


Magnetic buttons is a term I coined to mean the buttons/dpad are wherever you want them to be.

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #820 on: March 23, 2016, 01:56:29 PM »
On Neogaf a guy called Guevara matched up the tree reflected on the screen in picture 1 with a tree outside Massive Entertainment's headquarters, which is fucking insane, but coupled with the Swedish on the laptop I'm pretty certain it's them. They haven't made any games for Nintendo systems in the past, are owned by Ubisoft and just recently released Tom Clancy's The Division.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #821 on: March 23, 2016, 02:04:24 PM »
Oh. That's silly.

I want my buttons to be press-able.
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Offline Soren

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
« Reply #822 on: March 23, 2016, 02:05:58 PM »
On Neogaf a guy called Guevara matched up the tree reflected on the screen in picture 1 with a tree outside Massive Entertainment's headquarters, which is fucking insane, but coupled with the Swedish on the laptop I'm pretty certain it's them. They haven't made any games for Nintendo systems in the past, are owned by Ubisoft and just recently released Tom Clancy's The Division.

Look at the photo on Massive's wikipedia page. Major lulz.

I am on Team Buttons. I cannot see myself playing anything with that as the controller. Nintendo's silence has reached the point of harming public opinion on the NX.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
« Reply #823 on: March 23, 2016, 02:29:08 PM »
There are too many pictures of this "thing" now for it not to be something real.  But is if the NX controller or some completely unrelated device being passed off as such?  Or is it even something involved with Nintendo?  Or has someone is just so committed to a hoax that they created a mockup and have taken multiple photos of it instead of going the photoshop route?

I sure hope this isn't it.  I won't buy it.  Games need good controls and I don't for a second believe that this will be anything but a frustrating pain in the ass to use.  I didn't have a lot of hope for the future of the Wii U but at least good games were possible with it.  A bad controller can potentially ruin every game on a system.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
« Reply #824 on: March 23, 2016, 02:42:54 PM »
I just want to press buttons, guys.

I get that Nintendo has faith in the touchscreen, especially after DS. But touchscreen + buttons is the best way to play. Wii had motion controls and buttons. Wii U had touchscreen and buttons... why you so dumb, Nintendo?
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