Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread

[Stratos]

The dual pixels rumor was (unsurprisingly) debunked.

How was it debunked? I thought that the source was already deemed credible? Or was it the site themselves who made the source up?

[Adrock]

How was it debunked? I thought that the source was already deemed credible? Or was it the site themselves who made the source up?

It was debunked on neogaf. Someone discovered that the Dual Pixels rumor was copied word for word from a 4chan thread from December. Before that, other posters with greater technical knowledge were calling out hardware power part of the rumor (e.g. The closest in terms of “power” it gets to is the Xbox One, but an app idea is Wii U x50 and Playstation Vita x100) as nonsensical.

[Ian Sane]

This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.

You figure after the Wii U and 3DS Nintendo would know not to bet the farm on a gimmick that could fall flat.  That bit both systems in the ass.  With the 3DS they at least could offer the 3D-less model in the 2DS but the Wii U was just stuck with this expensive controller no one wanted.  There really wasn't a safety net.  Everything relied on gimmick X taking off and if it didn't Nintendo was fucked.  If I was Nintendo I wouldn't risk something like that happening again but this is Nintendo so they might look at how it worked for the Wii and think that the Wii U was the fluke and that THIS time it will work.  At the very least if they try something like that again they have to look more at the 3DS where they could axe the feature and still have a pretty worthwhile product.

I don't know if the 3DS really relied on the 3D.  Sure, it was the novelty that set it apart, but the 3DS was also a new and improved NDS.  It had the widescreen up top, a better eShop, the circle pad, and specs.  It could actually house better games than its predecessor. The Wii U kind of needed developers to be inspired by and make really great games surrounding the uPad, but no one really did.  That lack of support contributes to the Wii U's lack of sales, but I don't really see how the 3D cost the 3DS.  It may have driven up the price, but I still contest that the early price drop was caused by a lack of software initially.

The 3DS was too expensive at first and Nintendo felt the need to give early adopters free games to make up for a quick price cut.  I think they thought that this glasses 3D thing was just so damn cool that everyone would trip over themselves to pay the high price and it didn't happen and they were really caught off guard by it not happening.  And while the 3DS is a new and improved DS isn't the Wii U also a new and improved Wii so it's a similar approach.  I don't know exactly how much the 3D feature cost but the existence of the 2DS suggests that Nintendo thought they had priced the thing out of the "buy it for your kids for Pokémon" price range and getting rid of the feature was necessary to make the cheaper model.

Now the 3DS also had a pretty weak initial lineup and then so did the Wii U.  Gimmicks are usually used to hide deficiencies and I think Nintendo had taken from the Wii/DS years the bad lesson that a cool gimmick will draw attention away from other problems.  Nintendo clearly did not have the resources to properly support both platforms without expanding since they've been alternating between each platform getting stronger support at the expense of the other one.  The idea was probably that 3D and the Gamepad were such cool features that consumers would be so impressed by them that they wouldn't notice other issues like a lack of games or high prices.  When the gimmicks flopped Nintendo had to work hard to make those platforms appear worthwhile to consumers.  You don't have to do that if you have a platform that can attract healthy support and you have the resources to develop games on a frequent schedule.  Something like that doesn't need a gimmick and even you had one, the product wouldn't be in trouble if the gimmick flopped.

[Evan_B]

The Wii U is a drastically different piece of hardware in comparison with the Wii, the two do not go hand-in-hand.

The 3DS is a more powerful DSi. Touchscreen, Wifi, camera, SD card slot. The 3D was a selling point, for sure, but can only enhance the display, not detract from the experience.

[Ian Sane]

The Wii U is a drastically different piece of hardware in comparison with the Wii, the two do not go hand-in-hand.

The 3DS is a more powerful DSi. Touchscreen, Wifi, camera, SD card slot. The 3D was a selling point, for sure, but can only enhance the display, not detract from the experience.

What does the Wii do that the Wii U can't?  Seems to have all the same features as the Wii plus better specs and the Gamepad, same as how the 3DS can do everything the DS could and more.

[Evan_B]

The 3DS's improvements are largely iterative. The only exception to that might be gyro, as the DSi had AR gaming.

The Wii U's gamepad is a completely different type of hardware with different utilization than the Wii Remote. Wii remotes working on Wii U =/= Gamepad working on Wii.

[BranDonk Kong]

Why would I buy this when I can just buy 100 PS Vitas?

[Stratos]

Why would I buy this when I can just buy 100 PS Vitas?

Do you have that much duct tape lying around? Stuff doesn't grow on trees where I am from, hence why Nintendo has hit a gold mine with this idea. Gen after this they should try taping some Gamecubes... oh wait.

[nickmitch]

This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.

You figure after the Wii U and 3DS Nintendo would know not to bet the farm on a gimmick that could fall flat.  That bit both systems in the ass.  With the 3DS they at least could offer the 3D-less model in the 2DS but the Wii U was just stuck with this expensive controller no one wanted.  There really wasn't a safety net.  Everything relied on gimmick X taking off and if it didn't Nintendo was fucked.  If I was Nintendo I wouldn't risk something like that happening again but this is Nintendo so they might look at how it worked for the Wii and think that the Wii U was the fluke and that THIS time it will work.  At the very least if they try something like that again they have to look more at the 3DS where they could axe the feature and still have a pretty worthwhile product.

I don't know if the 3DS really relied on the 3D.  Sure, it was the novelty that set it apart, but the 3DS was also a new and improved NDS.  It had the widescreen up top, a better eShop, the circle pad, and specs.  It could actually house better games than its predecessor. The Wii U kind of needed developers to be inspired by and make really great games surrounding the uPad, but no one really did.  That lack of support contributes to the Wii U's lack of sales, but I don't really see how the 3D cost the 3DS.  It may have driven up the price, but I still contest that the early price drop was caused by a lack of software initially.

The 3DS was too expensive at first and Nintendo felt the need to give early adopters free games to make up for a quick price cut.  I think they thought that this glasses 3D thing was just so damn cool that everyone would trip over themselves to pay the high price and it didn't happen and they were really caught off guard by it not happening.  And while the 3DS is a new and improved DS isn't the Wii U also a new and improved Wii so it's a similar approach.  I don't know exactly how much the 3D feature cost but the existence of the 2DS suggests that Nintendo thought they had priced the thing out of the "buy it for your kids for Pokémon" price range and getting rid of the feature was necessary to make the cheaper model.

Now the 3DS also had a pretty weak initial lineup and then so did the Wii U.  Gimmicks are usually used to hide deficiencies and I think Nintendo had taken from the Wii/DS years the bad lesson that a cool gimmick will draw attention away from other problems.  Nintendo clearly did not have the resources to properly support both platforms without expanding since they've been alternating between each platform getting stronger support at the expense of the other one.  The idea was probably that 3D and the Gamepad were such cool features that consumers would be so impressed by them that they wouldn't notice other issues like a lack of games or high prices.  When the gimmicks flopped Nintendo had to work hard to make those platforms appear worthwhile to consumers.  You don't have to do that if you have a platform that can attract healthy support and you have the resources to develop games on a frequent schedule.  Something like that doesn't need a gimmick and even you had one, the product wouldn't be in trouble if the gimmick flopped.

I think the initial software drought hurt the 3DS more than the price did.  Sure, it was a little more expensive than it needed to be, but the lineup of games just made it not worth having with so little to play on it.  I wouldn't say the 3DS gimmick flopped, either.  It didn't take the market by storm, but it was a down market for the industry anyway.

[ShyGuy]

Man, I hope this rumor is true:

http://www.destructoid.com/rumor-nintendo-funding-beyond-good-and-evil-sequel-346059.phtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Come to where we love you, Michel Ancel!

[michaelbaysuperfan616]

I would be less excited for another failed game from the Cube era making a return than I was with Wind Waker. Nintendo has some strange priorities reviving commercial failures just because some small group of fans can't let go. Nintendo doesn't have a good track record of investing in mature titles they should just stay out of it. They gave up Rare they need to move on. Rare was their best avenue for getting mature titles and they blew that.


BUT I will say this, someone will argue any exclusive is better than nothing but I disagree, the right exclusives matter the wrong exclusives paint a bad picture. Still the first game was good hence why I doubt Nintendo can make a sequel good.

[ShyGuy]

I just want a sequel to one of my favorite games.

[Louieturkey]

I just want a sequel to one of my favorite games.

I'm with ShyGuy, BG&E was one of my favorite games.  I've been patiently waiting for a sequel that Ubisoft actually announced like 10 years ago. If Nintendo funding it gets it made faster, I'm all for that.

[Evan_B]

Was Bayonetta 2 a bad exclusive?

[Adrock]

Apparently the Beyond Good and Evil 2 rumor is from the same source as the Dual Pixels rumor so make of this what you will.

I think it would be a good idea for Nintendo to pick up Beyond Good and Evil 2. The point is to rebuild bridges and forge new partnerships. That's what made picking up Bayonetta 2 worthwhile besides getting a really solid game. This is the kind of goodwill that is worth investing in because it targets a passion project. It isn't just a paycheck for the developers; it's something they really believe in. You can't just look at Bayonetta 2's sales for the whole picture. For example, when these creators want to pitch a new project, there's a greater chance of looking Nintendo's way first. Or in Platinum Games' case, Nintendo invited them to revive Star Fox.

Again, Nintendo needs content. And collecting exclusives from proven talent is a good place to get it. Nintendo still needs the multi platform tent pole games like Madden and Call of Duty, but it also needs more than first party exclusives in order to have an attractive and well rounded platform.

[Ian Sane]

BG&E2 is a good game to get.  You will sell some systems with it as an exclusive, though not that many.  Getting a good game exclusive to your console is never a bad thing (unless you paid so much money for it that you can't possibly make it back) but I don't want Nintendo to feel that a token effort like that is enough.  Bayo 2 was a great pick up but that's like the whole extent of Nintendo attracting third party support on the Wii U.  They funded this one game and that's better than nothing but it means jack **** in comparison to all the third party games the Wii U didn't get and one game is way too few to have any real effect on sales.  If Nintendo wants to try to secure some exclusives they have to do that a lot and also have a platform that is inviting for third parties and so that Nintendo will just attract some general decent support without having to go specifically set it up.

Bayo 2 just sets a bad precedence of Nintendo getting a cool third party exclusive but doing literally nothing else.  I don't want to see that kind of token effort again so while BG&E 2 would be cool I'll get excited if we see Nintendo funding the development of MANY games like this.

[Soren]

Nintendo picking up the tab for cult/niche franchises sounds like a better way to build trust with the likes of Ubisoft/EA/Activision than outright moneyhatting third party ports of multiplatform games.

They funded this one game and that's better than nothing but it means jack **** in comparison to all the third party games the Wii U didn't get and one game is way too few to have any real effect on sales.

They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo picking up the tab for cult/niche franchises sounds like a better way to build trust with the likes of Ubisoft/EA/Activision than outright moneyhatting third party ports of multiplatform games.

They funded this one game and that's better than nothing but it means jack **** in comparison to all the third party games the Wii U didn't get and one game is way too few to have any real effect on sales.

They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.

I don't really think of Wonderful 101 as a third party game.  Who owns the IP for that, Platinum or Nintendo?  If Nintendo does then it's a first party game.  Okay so let's include it and we get six games and three of them suck.  This is still not a good strategy.  Still seems like the mistaken idea that a few token titles makes up for real support.

Yeah if something like this butters up Ubisoft and ensures Nintendo gets all of Ubisoft's multiplatform games as well that's fantastic but if it's just Nintendo getting this one game then it's borderline useless in the grand scheme of things.  And Nintendo's track record since the Cube with such deals usually has resulted in only getting those token games.

[Mop it up]

They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.

There was also Fatal Frame V, though it still has the questionable quality...

[Evan_B]

Damn, I still need to get Fatal Frame. I actually liked the demo.

So we're all in agreement, then? Bayonetta 2 was a bad exclusive?

[Spak-Spang]

The problem is getting exclusive titles that are niche games or unknown titles or even new IPs are not the solution.  If you want to make an impact you need to get the known franchises and desired franchises on your system.  It doesn't even matter if you get timed exclusivity or none...you just need them. 

Bayonetta 2 was a good exclusive that if it came out when the Wii U launched would have helped.  Nintendo actually needs to radically change how they consider doing releases.  They are too slow to release their games and that can be a problem in the market.

[Shaymin]

Damn, I still need to get Fatal Frame. I actually liked the demo.

So we're all in agreement, then? Bayonetta 2 was a bad exclusive?

Ask your mum.

I don't think BG&E2 would garner the same heat that Bayo got - maybe half as much. Given this game's uh, checkered history I think anyone would be happy to play it. (Basically Nintendo would be pulling a Devil's Third except the game isn't a flaming s**tpile.)

[azeke]

So, i've been reading some people who are disappointed about their supposedly favourite series getting sequel on NX.

All the while other long-awaited sequel was announced just last year as exclusive to two platforms that previous games were never on while BG&E actually was on Nintendo).

And the reception was -- thunderous standing ovation.

And their Kickstarter (the gall of these people -- claiming they are reviving the series -- and then immediately take people's own money to do it!) was the most successful kickstarter to date.



Do these people have zero self-awareness?

[Evan_B]

What sequel are we talking about here? I gotta keep up with Kickstarter campaigns.

You know, I haven't played Bayonetta 2 (or the first, for that matter) yet, so I can't comment on the game. The 30 dollar pricepoint is really tempting though.

[Adrock]

What sequel are we talking about here? I gotta keep up with Kickstarter campaigns.

I'm thinking Shenmue III.

My understanding of this revival is that Sega freely gave Yu Suzuki the rights to use the IP, but it was on Suzuki and Ys Net to secure funding for the game because Sega had no interest in developing the game itself (clearly, since it has been dormant since 2002). Sony is helping fund marketing while the Kickstarter was for actual development.

I'm not sure azeke's comparison is fair since the same people praising Shenmue III aren't necessarily the same people disappointed in the NX-exclusive Beyond Good and Evil 2 rumor. Additionally, Shenmue III will be released on the most popular console as well as PC, reaching a much larger audience than a yet-to-be-released successor to Nintendo's least popular home console. Admittedly, there is likely some anti-Nintendo bias because people don't want to buy an entire console for one game though that disregards other titles that would be available on it.

You know, I haven't played Bayonetta 2 (or the first, for that matter) yet, so I can't comment on the game. The 30 dollar pricepoint is really tempting though.

But you won't get the port of the original... Nooooooooooo...