Author Topic: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.  (Read 15945 times)

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Offline Smoke39

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2006, 04:06:34 PM »
I like Tingle in MM.  He's funny.  I don't really like him in the other games he's appeared in.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2006, 06:23:22 PM »
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Originally posted by: pap64
Anyone that even DARES to think crap about OoT should be castrated, have their arms and legs ripped off clean, their internal organs re-arranged and ripped of their hearts, then show it to them before they die...


Well, I wanted to be nice about it, but yes, this is indeed my opinion on the subject.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2006, 07:11:48 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Anyone that even DARES to think crap about OoT should be castrated, have their arms and legs ripped off clean, their internal organs re-arranged and ripped of their hearts, then show it to them before they die...


Well, I wanted to be nice about it, but yes, this is indeed my opinion on the subject.


Believe me when I say that out of ALL the games I've ever played in my life time OoT is one of the few I have a STRONG emotional attachment to.

It was my first Zelda game and it was one I shall never forget. Like you said, everything from the Ocarina songs to the sense of urgency as you see the world around you destroyed added to the entire experiences. The moment you come out of the temple as Adult Link and see the once lively Market place turned into a dark, zombie infested hell hole is one I shall never forget. It was the first game to truly capture my imagination. I ate, slept, drank, talked, thought, draw, sung and even laughed Zelda like a maniac.

Even if Majora's Mask didn't capture that same feeling, it definitely captured my heart and created fears in my mind. To this day its the only game to have given me nightmares FOR WEEKS. The character interaction was near perfect, and the story was very good. It made you go closer to these characters.

Which is why I was so disappointed with Wind waker. It was cute and the gameplay was fun, but the rushed feeling combined with the lively but shallow graphics ruined the game for me.

I am PRAYING that Twilight Princess offers an emotional experience similar to OoT and MM.

Now I am getting way off topic, but I get very touchy when it comes to OoT because of strong emotional attachment I have towards it.
Pedro Hernandez
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2006, 07:38:02 PM »
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Originally posted by: pap64 Now I am getting way off topic, but I get very touchy when it comes to OoT because of strong emotional attachment I have towards it.


Same, and yes, TP is likewise a very emotional game.

And yes, SD3 had the ring system. It's been a while since I played it, but I do remember it.

I still can't get over how bad CoM was, though. It's like they ripped off Diablo except the part where it was fun.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 09:19:41 PM »
Maybe I'm too jaded and reading game mechanics like a book now but I don't sense urgency unless there's a countdown on the screen because I just know the game isn't keeping track of how long I take.

Maybe it's because I wasn't a kid anymore when I played OOT but it didn't invoke many emotions in me besides thinking "what an awful idea" when I saw the shoddily prerendered backgrounds. Maybe it's the lack of amazement about "OMG 3D!" that makes the game unenjoyable to me or maybe it's because I played Wind Waker first.

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2006, 01:19:48 AM »
So, wait... did you not have any friends to play SoM with or what?

Offline 18 Days

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2006, 02:05:06 AM »
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
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Originally posted by: Arbok
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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
That's okay, 18 Days likes Starfox Command...That means her opinion is moot!


You mean his?

Nah, "her" fits him just fine...

I think everyone can agree that even when I ws pretending to be a girl Bill was doing a better job of it unintentionally.

And crap, forgot I posted this flamebait. I'll come in and fire back sometime later when I can be bothered. Maybe tomorrow.
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Offline Galford

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2006, 11:35:04 AM »
I don't what to say about this thread.  
In my opinion both are pillars of 2d action rpg design but in different ways.

Just a quick question, how many people here played these games when they first came out
on the SNES?  I ask because this tends to shape people's view points on both of these games
immensely.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2006, 12:17:44 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k Maybe I'm too jaded and reading game mechanics like a book now but I don't sense urgency unless there's a countdown on the screen because I just know the game isn't keeping track of how long I take.


Like when the castle was collapsing and you needed to make it to the bottom in three minutes?

Quote

Maybe it's because I wasn't a kid anymore when I played OOT but it didn't invoke many emotions in me besides thinking "what an awful idea" when I saw the shoddily prerendered backgrounds. Maybe it's the lack of amazement about "OMG 3D!" that makes the game unenjoyable to me or maybe it's because I played Wind Waker first.


I wasn't a kid when I played either LttP or OoT and I didn't think the graphics were particularly good. It was the soundtrack which made the game identifiable in my mind. Easily one of the best game soundtracks to date.

WW was just, meh, by comparison. TP actually reminds me far more of OoT than either MM or WW.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2006, 12:29:50 PM »
I was 16 to 17 years old when I first played OoT and even when I am 24 years old the music brings tears to my eyes because of how beautiful it is.

At the time I was impressed with the graphics, even if they weren't perfect. While the music was one of the things that drove OoT high on my list there was just too many things about the game that drove it to near perfection.

The challenge of the dungeons and its bosses, exploring the country side on Epona, freeing Epone and the biggest one of all for me, seeing for the first time how the beautiful fantasy world of Hyrule was turned into hell by Ganondorf. How the people were affected by it added an emotional punch to it all. My favorite scene is when you visit Lon Lon ranch for the first time after you wake up from your 10 year slumber, then at night you see Malon singing alone in the middle of the ranch, then she mentions that the song reminds her of the brighter days.

MM took that aspect and cranked up to 11. The Anju and Kafei sidequest was sad and very touching, same with the father and the little girl.

Compared to these two, Wind waker was BLAH. I've been replaying the game and I've yet to encounter a moment that tickled my fancy (the closest was when you learned Tetra's true identity).
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2006, 06:39:08 PM »
Like when the castle was collapsing and you needed to make it to the bottom in three minutes?

Haven't seen that part outside of a speedrun, I didn't play much past the wood temple. Judging by my past performance with final bosses (try a few times, get bored, leave) I wouldn't have seen it even if I played the game to the end.

Offline Kairon

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2006, 08:36:26 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
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Originally posted by: Kairon
Man, I HATED Seiken Densetsu 3. Such a letdown from Secret of Mana. It got rid of the ring menu, it slowed down combat, and it diluted the general experience completely.

The closest thing I've played to SoM in a long while has been Rocket Slime, and as cool as that was, it was still a minor twinkle in the utter brilliance of SoM.

~Carmine M. Red
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The fact that you said SD3 does NOT have a ring menu shows you did NOT play "Seiken Densetsu 3."  You probably played Sword of Mana or some other PSX rubbish.  You have no right to revisit this thread.

Discussion over x2.


Maybe I shouldn't have dropped the game in frustration so fast... or maybe there was a ring menu and I repressed the memory because of how godawful the rest of the game felt.

Either way, the disappointment I felt playing SD3 is the reason I hate emulators.

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2006, 03:50:11 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k Haven't seen that part outside of a speedrun, I didn't play much past the wood temple. Judging by my past performance with final bosses (try a few times, get bored, leave) I wouldn't have seen it even if I played the game to the end.


So you've been bashing the game all this time and didn't make it more than half of the way through? Huh?

And like I said, you might want to skip TP outright. It reminds me of OoT more than any of the recent Zelda games.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2006, 04:53:17 AM »
So you've been bashing the game all this time and didn't make it more than half of the way through? Huh?

Do you expect me to play a game of that length from start to finish even though I don't enjoy it?

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2006, 07:00:19 AM »
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k Do you expect me to play a game of that length from start to finish even though I don't enjoy it?


I expect you to not sink to the depths of the mouth-breathers at IGN and at least finish a game before you pass judgment on it, especially if you're going to rag on it.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline vudu

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2006, 07:50:27 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I expect you to not sink to the depths of the mouth-breathers at IGN and at least finish a game before you pass judgment on it, especially if you're going to rag on it.
*cough*
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Played 10 minutes, thought it was the "Blair Witch Project" of gaming, as in I had no idea why all the fuss was made about it.
 
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Smoke39

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2006, 08:18:18 AM »
I don't think you need to play all the way through a game to be able to decide that you don't like it. :/
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2006, 08:31:54 AM »
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Originally posted by: vudu Played 10 minutes, thought it was the "Blair Witch Project" of gaming, as in I had no idea why all the fuss was made about it.


Your point? I didn't understand where the game earned all of its hype as it didn't appeal to me. That's not "ragging" on it, just saying it wasn't my thing.

I didn't go on to say, "The graphics sucked, the story blew and the king's camel toe was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a game."  
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2006, 08:46:18 AM »
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu Played 10 minutes, thought it was the "Blair Witch Project" of gaming, as in I had no idea why all the fuss was made about it.


Your point? I didn't understand where the game earned all of its hype as it didn't appeal to me. That's not "ragging" on it, just saying it wasn't my thing.

I didn't go on to say, "The graphics sucked, the story blew and the king's camel toe was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a game."


Vudu's point is that you didn't play the game enough in order to understand its appeal. Had you played for like 1 or 2 hours and finished a couple of the levels, then said "I played through a great deal of the game and it didn't appeal to me" it wouldn't have been a problem since you gave it a proper try. But since you admitted that you only played the game for like 10 minutes, then said "I don't understand why the game is loved", it does knock off some credibility points.

You may not be ragging it as bad as KDR is ragging on OoT, but it certainly isn't pretty either.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2006, 08:54:49 AM »
True, but if the gameplay didn't appeal to me after 10 minutes, there's not much chance it'll do so after an hour either.

It's not like I had a hard time with the controls, and unless the gameplay becomes wildly different later on or the story becomes so riveting that I can't stop playing, I think I can safely say it wasn't my cup of tea. I'm not ragging on those who like it, nor am I comparing it to any other games, just saying it wasn't my thing.

OoT is the same exact Zelda equation as LttP, just in 3D, and I think it transitioned so well that it enhances the gameplay experience.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2006, 09:08:34 AM »
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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
True, but if the gameplay didn't appeal to me after 10 minutes, there's not much chance it'll do so after an hour either.

It's not like I had a hard time with the controls, and unless the gameplay becomes wildly different later on or the story becomes so riveting that I can't stop playing, I think I can safely say it wasn't my cup of tea. I'm not ragging on those who like it, nor am I comparing it to any other games, just saying it wasn't my thing.

OoT is the same exact Zelda equation as LttP, just in 3D, and I think it transitioned so well that it enhances the gameplay experience.


Sadly, the gameplay does not drastically change halfway through the game, which is one of Katamary's biggest downfalls, and the story is simple. The story is We love Katamari is better, but still nothing that you will cherish forever.

The thing that kept me going back to the game was how satisfying it was starting out small and insignificant then ending being bigger than the gods themselves. The sequel (or expansion I should say), does try to enhance the gameplay a little by adding slightly different missions, like instead of rolling a ball, you roll a sumo wrestler and grab as much food as you can so that he can become fat. Then when he is fat enough, you take him to the ring and knock the other wrestler.

I think you voiced your opinion the wrong way. Had you said "I played the game for like 10 minutes and it didn't appeal to me", then it would be understandable. But since you compared it to the Blair Witch, a movie that was a fluke, then said you didn't understand why people see the appeal to it, it does sound like you are ragging on it a bit.

Maybe this is why Vudu brought it up here, since it does sound like you were ragging on it. I think had you voiced it differently, it wouldn't be as bad.

Also, to be blunt, your opinion doesn't hold a candle in the thread because Svevan was asking if the game was worth it. And lets face it, between someone who has given the game enough time to tell you what it did right and wrong and someone who played it for 10 minutes, then dismiss it, who do you think will pay attention to?  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2006, 09:16:34 AM »
Depends on whether Evan and I have similar tastes.

If we do then the fact that it wasn't my kind of game would be relevant. If not, he's free to dismiss it.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2006, 12:49:58 AM »
OoT is the same exact Zelda equation as LttP, just in 3D, and I think it transitioned so well that it enhances the gameplay experience.

I really, REALLY disagree on that. 2d Zelda plays a LOT different from 3d Zelda. The different combat system is enough to make both hardly comparable.

And I think after playing a game for hours I can say whether I like it or not and I didn't like OOT. I'm certainly not forcing myself through that game just so you think I can properly assess it. You can decide a game doesn't appeal to you after 10 minutes but I have to play a 40 hour game from start to finish to make that same conclusion?

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2006, 03:51:12 PM »
40 hours? OoT can be beaten in 15 or less, easily.

Second, if you don't like 3D Zelda games, then you don't like 3D Zelda games. Point taken, but don't overstep your boundaries and start attacking aspects of the game which you didn't experience in totality and therefore cannot properly judge.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: All the ____ of Mana games are terrible. Realise this fact.
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2006, 01:26:49 AM »
The only thing in my criticism that would require playing through the full game is the music and I got the soundtrack disc (90% just ambient noise, a few forgettable songs, not even the original Eternal Legend, just a crappy remix, only Hymn of Sorms stands out). I found Wind Waker much more playable. The sailing was boring but at least you didn't have to repeatedly hit A to keep moving at speed. The camera was controllable which solved 90% of the camera problems immediately. The dungeons just felt much better.

OOT can be beaten in 2:33:25, 40 hours was just a guess. The game doesn't keep track of the time played, after all (at least not in the load menu).