Author Topic: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original  (Read 8974 times)

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Offline nemo_83

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If you've read the rumors you know that games like Star Fox, Luigi's Mansion, and Kid Ikarus are being seriously considered for the Wii.  Why is this?  Why is Nintendo giving us spin about going after new consumers (non gamers as well as non-Nintendo gamers) and then plotting to take the same old path with their software.  

One of the main reasons GCN failed miserably (outside of GBA connectivity, lack of online, casing, controller, etc) was the lack of originality in the software lineup.  The library was not interesting to anyone but Nintendo fans.  

The Wii is just the same.  Nintendo is going to be playing catchup making their franchises online.  And they will use the remote as an excuse to make games like Luig's Mansion which will attract noone but fanboys.  Why do this in spite of the unbelievable reaction to the New Super Mario Bros which is the first SMB in fifteen years?  Why make seperate Mario and Luigi games?  Why make a sequel to LM which did nothing to expand the user base?  

They want to act like they learned from the GameCube that graphics are not important but the truth is that it wasn't the pretty graphics on GCN that lost it for them, it was their games.


I will judge the system by its fruits and currently, the Wii has the same old apples which noone was interested in last gen.  The first thing Nintendo should be worried about, the key to attracting new consumers (people who traditionally only buy Sony and MS), is to do something dark, epic, and new before you go updating Mario Party or Pilot Wings or Wave Race, etc.  

Nintendo should be the one on the forefront of that which is new, they should be the ones bringing us games like Portal (the team who created the original demo did graduate from the school Nintendo helps fund).
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Offline BiLdItUp1

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2006, 05:30:46 PM »
No reason they can't do both. Retro Studios, after MP3, should start getting back to their pre-Metroid days of really cool sh!t that had to get canned, at the very least.
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 05:33:27 PM »
I have a feeling that after MP3, Retro will start a new Metroid that will depart somewhat from the Prime series.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2006, 05:37:38 PM »
I think we need more 2D handheld Metroid action.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2006, 05:46:00 PM »
What kind of fire are you trying to start?

Where'd this Luigi's Mansion spew come from?

Games are less than half the story concerning GCN's success.  You forgot marketing.  (you want to see loss, look at Xbox AND 360 in Japan)  I'll put my own spin (since you're comfortable stating opinions as fact), had GameCube been marketed properly, its image and success wouldn't be the issue you make it to be.

"Traditional" and "MS" don't go together.  There's only one previous console there.

Did you not hear what happened at E3?  Why weren't the "dark, epic, and new(ly bump-mapped)" stealing the crowd?  Oh yeah, people were interested in the old apples and the silly gim-mick controller.  Not to mention there's quite a few good apples being readied for Wii's launch, a meatier launch than any console before it.

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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2006, 06:16:52 PM »
PS2 had many more original IPs last gen than GC.  And Xbox only needed one original game to defeat Nintendo in sales world wide, Halo.

Some of the rumors I referenced are from EGM.

And since E3, EGM has had a top 50 original games issue (with Army of Two and Gears of War as number one and number two) and Wii had something like four games on the list.  

You can't love the tree and hate the fruit and you can't love the fruit and hate the tree.  

It's the difference between walking the walk and talking the talk.  Nintendo has been shouting at the top of their lungs about doing something new and yet when it comes to actual new IPs that are exciting the media and readers they have a Tennis game with N64 graphics.    
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2006, 06:18:34 PM »
Last I checked the Wii is going by the DS model to get nongamers.  They are still releasing starfox for DS and you bring up NSMB.  I really like the game but it is anything but original and is the same path.  The DS did not get nongamers by giving up the popular Nintendo franchises but by making new ones and adapting existing franchises to the new controls.

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 06:36:28 PM »
I....agree in that I was dissapointed with the lack of original IPs at E3.

But! First off, when has Nintendo said they were working on Kid Icarus or Luigi's Mansion? Haven't they, in fact, specifically said the opposite*?

...Also, you complain about Luigi's Mansion and then turn around and praise the rehash that is New Super Mario Bros? Also, a sequel to either Luigi's Mansion or Kid Icarus would likely be brimming with originality. Also, Nintendo is going to stick to their franchises. Franchise games appeal to more than just fanboys when the gameplay is there. A game where you use the wiimote to fly Pit around shooting arrows at enemies wouldn't lose sales because it was based on an old game**.

Second off, you want Nintendo to do something "dark"? Bleh.

*well, okay, they're totally working on a new Icarus
**Good thing, too. Because they're totally working on a new Icarus. Did you hear?
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 07:06:59 PM »
NSMB doesn't do enough that is new, I understand it doesn't even have flying, but I brought it up as a starting point for Galaxy as it takes the series back to what it was about.  Galaxy needs Luigi, it needs floating boxes; it has to have powerups.



It is okay to have the big three in the first year (Metroid, Zelda, Mario Bros), but before they go digging into their chest of fan services like Fzero or a decent Star Fox they need to put something out that is original.
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Offline Mario

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2006, 07:08:03 PM »
I think this is just a case of there not being rumors about the new games in development because 1) people can't describe them 2) they'd be more top secret 3) harder to guess / make up.

That said, bring on Luigi's Mansion 2!! Still waiting for a new Wave Race too.

EDIT: LOL you haven't even played New Super Mario Bros? Stop all conversation about it right now.

Offline EasyCure

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 07:55:31 PM »
project h.a.m.m.e.r., disaster: day of crisis, and even excite truck are new original IP's that are being developed by nintendo. we just dont know anything about them and dont get talked about enough like the already established franchises do.

the luigis mansion and starfox sequel rumours are rumours for a reason, because people have nothing better to do but speculate on what nintendo might do, based on what we DO know. we know they have tons of franchises they could make sequels too, so its not that far fetched an idea to say "oh did ya hear, they might be making a star fox Wii game." well, duh they'll make a star fox wii game, its inevitable, fox has been on every console since super nes.

you mention how the number one and two games on egms list of 50 original games are army of two and gears of war. don't you think that if those games are even remotely succesful they'll see sequels? of course there will be because devs like to play it safe and sequels to games that have proven themselves are easy money. everyone does it so you cant soley blame nintendo for sequels, but to say that sequels are all they are doing this time around is ridiculous.

wiisports, project h.a.m.m.e.r., disaster: day of crisis, and excite truck (barely) are all new and "original" IPs by nintendo. if you take some of the other new software we know about, like wiiorchestra and wiimotor sports and the possible new miyamoto IP's that are supposedly being kept secret (i believe there were two unnanounced IPs) and add those to the games we do know about, you'll see they actually outweigh the franchise sequels that will be out at launch (launch window).

thats about 8 original games versus the 4 franchise sequels available at/or around launch. how can anyone say they arent bringing anything original?
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2006, 09:06:07 PM »
Quote

project h.a.m.m.e.r., disaster: day of crisis, and even excite truck are new original IP's that are being developed by nintendo.
Well. Technically, HAMMER isn't made internally (NST), Disaster is made by Monolith (Baten Kaitos), and Excite Truck is made by Monster Games. However, you are right in that Nintendo is keeping a close eye on them, and will be publishing them. At least they are showing that they care about original IPs. I'm still waiting for Miyamoto's new game; that should be amazing..  
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2006, 09:14:40 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
project h.a.m.m.e.r., disaster: day of crisis, and even excite truck


The first two are not developed by Nintendo and the Truck game has the Excite name in it.  And none of those are worth buying a Wii for.  God, that sounds so perverted; buy a wee.

The other games you brought up such as the Miyamoto game may not even exist so don't bet the farm on it.  If it does exist, it could turn out to be that damn maze demo or some other micro game like it.

The one game that is something new that I am excited about on Wii is the cel shaded game from the makers of Killer 7.  But like the games you brought up, it is not developed by Nintendo.

Of the list in EGM.  The Wii has but two games in the top thirty, one in the top twenty (Tennis), and none in the top ten.  Games like Huxley, Alan Wake, Lair, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Resistance, Okami, Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Army of Two are not currently coming to the Wii (I'm hoping Okami will at least make the jump).  

I think Tennis is interesting; I also believe it will turn out to be free.  Thus far the excitement about Wii has been about the controller and not the fruit of it.  People just want to get their hands on the remote and give it a swing, and that kind of buzz will not carry the system through.  The launch will sate the wants of many Nintendo fans (I normally buy Nintendo systems for Zelda), but if Nintendo is serious about expanding their market beyond that niche they need to be active in attaining more interesting games from third parties than "Guy with a Hammer."

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Offline Kairon

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2006, 09:20:11 PM »
Where internally developed Nintendo Newness is concerned, expect them to lead the charge like they are with the DS: lifestyle software.

Look at English training DS, Shaberu! Oryouri Navi!, Brain Age 1 and 2, and the 4+ versions of Nintendogs. Then think of not just Wii Sports, but the much-rumored Wii Music, Wii Diet, and who knows what else!

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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2006, 09:39:51 PM »
Is Nemo still stupid?

This thread has erradicated all doubt.
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Offline Mario

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006, 09:45:03 PM »
Project Hammer not developed by Nintendo? What does the N in NST stand for? "Excite" is a franchise now? No.

Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006, 09:45:36 PM »
Nemo just needs to hurry up and buy a PS2 so he can get the hell off the internet. Stop buying Nintendo stuff you moron, your endless God damn whinging is sad.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 10:09:47 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
PS2 had many more original IPs last gen than GC.  And Xbox only needed one original game to defeat Nintendo in sales world wide, Halo .

Some of the rumors I referenced are from EGM.

And since E3, EGM has had a top 50 original games issue (with Army of Two and Gears of War as number one and number two) and Wii had something like four games on the list.  

You can't love the tree and hate the fruit and you can't love the fruit and hate the tree.  

It's the difference between walking the walk and talking the talk.  Nintendo has been shouting at the top of their lungs about doing something new and yet when it comes to actual new IPs that are exciting the media and readers they have a Tennis game with N64 graphics.


Halo


You can't argue with that, you can't get anymore original than Halo. Obvious proof that people are indeed looking for new IPs with original experiences.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 10:24:57 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
project h.a.m.m.e.r., disaster: day of crisis, and even excite truck


The first two are not developed by Nintendo and the Truck game has the Excite name in it.  And none of those are worth buying a Wii for.  God, that sounds so perverted; buy a wee.

The other games you brought up such as the Miyamoto game may not even exist so don't bet the farm on it.  If it does exist, it could turn out to be that damn maze demo or some other micro game like it.

The one game that is something new that I am excited about on Wii is the cel shaded game from the makers of Killer 7.  But like the games you brought up, it is not developed by Nintendo.

Of the list in EGM.  The Wii has but two games in the top thirty, one in the top twenty (Tennis), and none in the top ten.  Games like Huxley, Alan Wake, Lair, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Resistance, Okami, Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Army of Two are not currently coming to the Wii (I'm hoping Okami will at least make the jump).  

I think Tennis is interesting; I also believe it will turn out to be free.  Thus far the excitement about Wii has been about the controller and not the fruit of it.  People just want to get their hands on the remote and give it a swing, and that kind of buzz will not carry the system through.  The launch will sate the wants of many Nintendo fans (I normally buy Nintendo systems for Zelda), but if Nintendo is serious about expanding their market beyond that niche they need to be active in attaining more interesting games from third parties than "Guy with a Hammer."


Nemo's arguments make no sense, why can MS or Sony get away with "exclusive" titles developed by people other than selves but when Nintendo does it, then that isn't good enough? Sounds like a hypocritical statement to me. Not to mention the fact that all but two of those games (couldn't find Lair) are shooters of some sort, original IPs my butt. Also some of those games aren't even really exclusive to a particular system (some are Xbox 360/PS3/PC or a combination). Nintendo has Day of Disastor, Project Hammer, Red Steel, Wii Sports, and probaly a host of other new IPs that are TRULY exclusive, some of which will have more innovation and creativity than that stale list of games could ever dream of having.

WHat is even more ridiculous is you are saying the excitement for Wii has been the controller and not the fruit of. People who got hands on with Wii were blown away, that is more than the controller. Perhaps Nemo was living in a cave but Wii stole E3s show with its GAMES, and people ditched the PS3 along with Xbox 360 even with those oh so great new vaporware IPs (except for Gears of War) that no one even got to play.
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Offline WalkingTheCow

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 11:38:09 PM »
I almost hate to join the chorus at this point, but Nemo, I also don't really get where you're coming from exactly. First off Suda's new game does look neat. . . And the gameplay probobly is going to be different, as that's sorta that team's thing. But Elebits is also pretty different, hey so is Wii sports even! Trauma Center will be new to virtually everybody, Red Steel, Project H.A.M.M.E.R. (which IS being developed by Nintendo), Day of Disaster, and Necro-Nesia (as crappy as it may have looked at E3) will all be new too.

Add Heroes on there, by all means. But you must admit, it's not all alone.

Now the games you listed. . . Games like Huxley, Alan Wake, Lair, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Resistance, Okami, Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Army of Two . . . those are going to expand the market? Don't get me wrong, they look like lovely games (Okami and Bioshock particularly) but I don't see where you're differentiating them from what The Wii has exactly. What is the divide? Graphics? Are you looking for an edgyness?

I see a pretty good flush in quality of original IPs between Wii and 360. I think they both have the PS3 beat so far, but I'm well aware that may change.

I dunno, I just don't see anything to complain about the Wii's software just yet. And damn it, I'm stoked for Mario! And Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus (please), Rayman, Donkey Kong,  Animal Crossing, Dragon Quest, Fire Emblem, Sonic, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Excite Truck, Prince of Persia, Warioware, Resident Evil, and yeah I'm stoked for Super Monkey Ball. Hell, Far Cry and Blazing Angels don't sound like a bad deal either.

There are of course other NEW IPs that are further down the line that we havn't mentioned. How about Sadness? Orb, Raid Over the River, 100 Bullets (new IP for videogames anyway, which also goes to what looks to be a likely Broken Saints game for Wii), Darkness, Mr D Goes to Town (hopefully we learn something besides who the developers and the publishers are soon),  Sengoku, Thorn (though it sounds like a candidate for vaporware, you can never tell where a big new title will come from).

Might these be some of the games that help make the next couple years much different from the first couple years of the Gamecube. New IPs and yes, old IPs. Wii just seems to have plenty and the thing hasn't even launched yet. But as with anything like this we'll just have to wait and see. It's far too early to really tell, but so far I do think that things look good.  

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 11:43:23 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: WalkingTheCow
I almost hate to join the chorus at this point, but Nemo, I also don't really get where you're coming from exactly. First off Suda's new game does look neat. . . And the gameplay probobly is going to be different, as that's sorta that team's thing. But Elebits is also pretty different, hey so is Wii sports even! Trauma Center will be new to virtually everybody, Red Steel, Project H.A.M.M.E.R. (which IS being developed by Nintendo), Day of Disaster, and Necro-Nesia (as crappy as it may have looked at E3) will all be new too.

Add Heroes on there, by all means. But you must admit, it's not all alone.

Now the game you listed. . . Games like Huxley, Alan Wake, Lair, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Resistance, Okami, Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Army of Two . . . those are going to expand the market? Don't get me wrong, they look like lovely games (Okami and Bioshock particularly) but I don't see where you're differentiating them from what The Wii has exactly. What is the divide? Graphics? Are you looking for an edgyness?

I see a pretty good flush in quality of original IPs between Wii and 360. I think they both have the PS3 beat so far, but I'm well aware that may change.

I dunno, I just don't see anything to complain about the Wii's software just yet. And damn it, I'm stoked for Mario! And Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus (please), Rayman, Donkey Kong,  Animal Crossing, Dragon Quest, Fire Emblem, Sonic, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Excite Truck, Prince of Persia, Warioware, Resident Evil, and yeah I'm stoked for Super Monkey Ball. Hell, Far Cry and Blazing Angels don't sound like a bad deal either.

There are of course other NEW IPs that are further down the line that we havn't mentioned. How about Sadness? Orb, Raid Over the River, 100 Bullets (new IP for videogames anyway, which also goes to what looks to be a likely Broken Saints game for Wii), Darkness, Mr D Goes to Town (hopefully we learn something besides who the developers and the publishers are soon),  Sengoku, Thorn (though it sounds like a candidate for vaporware, you can never tell where a big new title will come from).

Might these be some of the games that help make the next couple years much different from the first couple years of the Gamecube. New IPs and yes, old IPs. Wii just seems to have plenty and the thing hasn't even launched yet. But as with anything like this we'll just have to wait and see. It's far too early to really tell, but so far I do think that things look good.


Cow, none of those new exclusive IPs you listed count since they are made by developers other than NIntendo, that is only ok if we are talking about Xbox 360 or PS3 IPs.
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Offline WalkingTheCow

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2006, 12:10:43 AM »
Oh damn it! I forgot. You know what it is right? It's the high-def. See, it actually warps the time-space fabric around it and actually changes the laws of debate, all because it is so good looking that all other aspects and points are null and void.

It changes everything!!!

Offline EasyCure

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RE:Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2006, 06:44:41 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
project h.a.m.m.e.r., disaster: day of crisis, and even excite truck


The first two are not developed by Nintendo and the Truck game has the Excite name in it.  And none of those are worth buying a Wii for.  God, that sounds so perverted; buy a wee.

The other games you brought up such as the Miyamoto game may not even exist so don't bet the farm on it.  If it does exist, it could turn out to be that damn maze demo or some other micro game like it.

The one game that is something new that I am excited about on Wii is the cel shaded game from the makers of Killer 7.  But like the games you brought up, it is not developed by Nintendo.

Of the list in EGM.  The Wii has but two games in the top thirty, one in the top twenty (Tennis), and none in the top ten.  Games like Huxley, Alan Wake, Lair, Assassin's Creed, Bioshock, Resistance, Okami, Mass Effect, Gears of War, and Army of Two are not currently coming to the Wii (I'm hoping Okami will at least make the jump).  

I think Tennis is interesting; I also believe it will turn out to be free.  Thus far the excitement about Wii has been about the controller and not the fruit of it.  People just want to get their hands on the remote and give it a swing, and that kind of buzz will not carry the system through.  The launch will sate the wants of many Nintendo fans (I normally buy Nintendo systems for Zelda), but if Nintendo is serious about expanding their market beyond that niche they need to be active in attaining more interesting games from third parties than "Guy with a Hammer."


Nemo's arguments make no sense, why can MS or Sony get away with "exclusive" titles developed by people other than selves but when Nintendo does it, then that isn't good enough?* Sounds like a hypocritical statement to me. Not to mention the fact that all but two of those games (couldn't find Lair) are shooters of some sort, original IPs my butt. Also some of those games aren't even really exclusive to a particular system (some are Xbox 360/PS3/PC or a combination). Nintendo has Day of Disastor, Project Hammer, Red Steel, Wii Sports, and probaly a host of other new IPs that are TRULY exclusive, some of which will have more innovation and creativity than that stale list of games could ever dream of having.

WHat is even more ridiculous is you are saying the excitement for Wii has been the controller and not the fruit of. People who got hands on with Wii were blown away, that is more than the controller. Perhaps Nemo was living in a cave but Wii stole E3s show with its GAMES, and people ditched the PS3 along with Xbox 360 even with those oh so great new vaporware IPs (except for Gears of War) that no one even got to play.


nemo you brought up a good point, but vgrevolution brings up an even better point*

also:

Quote

Halo


You can't argue with that, you can't get anymore original than Halo. Obvious proof that people are indeed looking for new IPs with original experiences.


i didnt even want to comment on that, but it seems like vgrevolution and i are on the same page, so as far as im concerned my rebuttal to this argument is done.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2006, 07:13:31 AM »
But Halo2 proves people want SEQUELS, and "original" really was just a delusion.

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Games Nintendo needs to not put on Wii until they do something original
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2006, 08:27:19 AM »
I find there are original games in the works for the Wii but it seems like there aren't because of who's involved.  The developers of the new games are largely unproven or inconsistent developers.  So I can't assume the game will be awesome and thus don't get hyped about it.  I get hyped about new games from EAD, Intelligent Systems and Retro Studios (and used to get excited for Rare) because those are elite Nintendo developers that deliver the goods 99% of the time.  So when they annouce a new IP I pay attention.  There were new games coming out at the end of the Cube's life like Battalion Wars and Geist.  But I didn't trust the developer and didn't think these games would be that good.  When they came out they got reviews that reflected my initial assumptions.  So those games might as well didn't exist because I don't care about new games if they're average or bad.  Pikmin however got tons of my attention because it was a new IP was EAD so I knew it would kick ass and it did.

Right now the REALLY important Nintendo developers are working on sequels so there is a perceived lack of newness because where it counts we're just getting sequels.  The B titles are new but the A titles are sequels.

I think the non-game factor plays a part too.  There are new IPs for the DS for example but I don't care because they're all non-game stuff I'm not interested in like Brain Training, Nintendogs, and Electroplankton.  WiiSports is a new game but the more I find out about it the less interested I am in it because it just sounds like a glorified tech demo with no depth, dumbed down for non-gamers.  The game might as well not exist if I'm not interested in it.  I want Nintendo's elite developers making awesome brand new stuff targetted at existing gamers and they're not so the Wii lineup looks more cookie-cutter than it actually is.