Topic: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta

[azeke]

Oh, other people are just wrong.

I am talking about the game i know. Other people make assumptions based on youtube gameplays.

There is no two ways of saying this. I am sorry and i hold no evil in my heart towards anyone here.

You want to talk about the gameplay in a game that isn't out yet? Has anyone here even played Bayonetta 2 at E3?

Every gameplay feature i mentioned (every single one) is actually from Bayonetta 1, the game i spent hundreds of hours playing. Bayonetta 2 only builds up on it, and honestly there isn't much they added or changed in the sequel. Even the video i linked to specifically says it's Bayonetta 1.

You're just being confrontational at this point for no reason.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I guess being 2014 means we somehow passed some magical point in time where everybody is wrong and only the kids are right. Sounds like something a teenager would say.

[Oblivion]

I guess being 2014 means we somehow passed some magical point in time where everybody is wrong and only the kids are right. Sounds like something a teenager would say.

Unfortunately for you, I am not a teenager. Nice try though. Feel free to actually join this debate instead of sitting in the sidelines spouting meaningless gibberish.

Who is saying this?

I'm pretty sure Stratos said something to that effect, but I'm not really sure what anyone is trying to say anymore.

[azeke]

We're all around thirty guys here discussing the most pointless stuff on internet forums here.

Stop fighting and play some videogames, guys. Or go out, isn't it friday night for you?

[Ymeegod]

What I remember about Bayonetta and also what I loved.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

Alright you want a real discussion I will give it you, but don't post an ignorant TL:DR bullshit remark if you can't accept what I have to say.

You come in here with a snide remark about how it is 2014 somehow that means everybody is just supposed to agree with your views for no reason even if they are wrong. You think your the only one with convictions when you don't even know what your fighting for. Political discussion is forbidden but ideology is given a free pass apparently so here goes. You said your self you were only 17, that was the last indication of your age I remember reading, I am not a stalker I don't go digging up information on people who claim to be 17 so I took that at face value. Maybe you are older now I don't know but I don't need to know you are young to know you are wrong.

You called Stratos out for being over 30 implying anyone over thirty would be out of touch or ignorant or oldfashioned or whatever point you were trying to make. There was nothing intelligent about your argument just a snarky comment, something a child would say not a grown adult. A grown adult would do exactly what I did, correct the child who made a mistake so that the child would learn from their mistake. Since you do not seem willing to learn I might be wasting my time trying to educate you in the first place.

I don't care if my views are popular or if they differ form yours the intelligent thing to do is to listen to both sides of a discussion and logically decide which view you personally agree with, not to just close your mind to the other side and make comments of the nature that you did. I even went so far as to try to get you to calm down and even pleaded with a certain mod not to ban you, I even offered to accept a temp ban in your place. You know nothing of maturity so let me explain it to you.

Knowledge is power, you I am sure agree with that. Your generation, as was mine before we actually have done more than you give us credit for, still let me dodge that and stick with knowledge for a second. If we are going to have any kind of discussion using intellect alone you have to concede that there is a certain amount of wisdom that comes with age, not just maturity but wisdom, something you learn by living not by reading books. Still I would probably bet I have read more books than you so if you want to have a discussion here it is.

Feminism is now what we are debating but the ignorance that youth can supersede the intelligence and wisdom of an older generation. I know you are younger than 25, you admitted to that recently I thought you were still a teenager but nevertheless it is a scientific fact that the frontal lobe does not finish developing until later 20's past 25 by most accounts. So at the very least I can deduce that scientifically speaking your brain is still not fully developed therefore I can assume with great significance that you are still developing which means you are not as mature as you think. Also it means that someone whose brain has finished developing is in a better position to actually lecture an immature younger person when they are mouthing off about things they know nothing about, or at least nothing beyond what they hear but not experience first hand.

I won't even get into the civil rights issue because you assume that because I am over 30 I must be racist, except it was my PARENTS generation that fought for equal rights, MY generation continued the struggle and all you did was read about it in a book. I don't have to have what you call facts to support my views I have 32 years of human experience on this earth dealing with other people, I have 5 years of college education under my belt and I have read more books than I care to remember so I think it is safe to say I have at my disposal the resources to make assumptions about you which all you did was prove right by the way you acted.

You want some truth, I know first hand the struggles of the LGBT community, my sister is a bisexual and I have friends who are homosexual. I can tell you I know more about bigotry than you will ever know but you hide behind your little computer desk and act all big because you think it makes you feel better. I grew up in Nevada in a town where white people were the minority and my roomate for a long time was a homosexual black man. Don't pretend that just because I am a certain age I can't have certain views.

Here is what I know, we all need support nobody is arguing that. I struggle with my feelings and I struggle living in a society that preaches that one way of living is wrong an another is right. My age has nothing to do with it except if you want to bring that up, when were the first gay marches held? Which generation has done more for the struggle. If you want to argue feminism is something only a young person would support you are the one who is mistaken. I may or may not agree with your views but to ignorantly call someone else's views into question purely based on their age was ignorant of YOU not me, all I did was attempt to show you the flaw in your argument. But no you think because you got pissed off it somehow makes you righteous or something.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I think uttering the word feminism should be bannable as its a politically charged ideology anyways. If you don't think I can derail a thread you have another thing coming. What was the discussion anyways, how having big tits means you can't be feminist? Or having big tits makes you feminist? Or having a cartoon character with big tits makes you a pervert? I don't think the thread has been on topic for a while now. Honestly I think the mods let us get away with this **** because if they banned everyone in this thread, which they should do we all broke the no politics rule, they would basically have to shut down the damn site.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

but not to be outdone let me also throw a video game related comment in there for good measure just incase someone decides to salvage this mess anyways. This game is not going to save the Wii U, weather you think th Wii U needs saving or not. This game is going to be five minutes of fun and once that's over people will forget about it. I think it will sell fewer than Wonderful 101 and then what will Nintendo do?

[NWR_insanolord]

I disagree with your premise that feminism is an inherently political topic, though the line between "politics" and "not politics" gets pretty blurry in places, and my stance in terms of moderation is more of a laissez faire approach; I try not to kill discussions unless I have to.

[Adrock]

I am talking about the game i know. Other people make assumptions based on youtube gameplays.

Sigh. And another condescending comment from you...

I don't see why it matters that I watched the cutscenes and some Let's Plays regarding this arm of the discussion. We weren't discussing gameplay, the best way to take down a boss, the best combos to use etc. You brought up feminism and plot significance, neither of which are gameplay related topics, thus do not require completion of the game in order to discuss. Nothing I've seen of the rest of the game changes my opinion of what I played of the beginning.

Every gameplay feature i mentioned (every single one) is actually from Bayonetta 1, the game i spent hundreds of hours playing. Bayonetta 2 only builds up on it, and honestly there isn't much they added or changed in the sequel. Even the video i linked to specifically says it's Bayonetta 1.

Many people here have not played any version of the game, and the Wii U version will be their first opportunity to do so. Until that happens, no one is really in a position to talk about the gameplay.

You're just being confrontational at this point for no reason.

No reason? Come on, now. You've peppered what was an otherwise decent discussion with your typical arrogant and condescending comments. Those are the reasons. At several points, you could have responded in a normal and respectful manner, yet you chose to condescend to others. Not cool and I refuse to sit here and let you talk to me and others like that. You're free to do so, but expect to be called out on it.

Look, some of us just don't agree with your claims that Bayonetta is about feminism. Thus far, you've relied on straw man ("Saying Bayonetta should cover herself..." No one said that.), redirection ("Makng statements and delivering profound messages is not what Platinum Games is about." You brought that up.), and flat-out elitism (too many to list) to derail the views of others. If that's the way you want to go with this, well, I guess we're done here.

[Manthony Chopkins]

With Bayonetta's new Fox McCloud costume, Kamiya can finally make the Starfox game he always wanted to make!!

[azeke]

With Bayonetta's new Fox McCloud costume, Kamiya can finally make the Starfox game he always wanted to make!!

He already made at least a few of them as levels inside Wonderful 101 

[Dasmos]

And here I was hoping azeke's reply was going to be another fumbling post about his skewed views on "feminism".

[azeke]

And here I was hoping azeke's reply was going to be...

Come on guys, don't start the routine "i correct people using actual facts about the game and linking to videos while you talk about things you don't know and then get inexplicably angry when shown wrong repeatedly" all over again

Why were you "hoping" to see this again? Do you enjoy shitposting more than gameplay discussion? I don't.

I am honestly trying to make it a decent thread here by trying to spread the love and fix a few mistakes.

Come on, guys. Look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVFbcw_LTTI

Isn't it amazing? How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIcoFOosS9U

This is what i want to talk about. Feel free to ask me how any of the things in the videos are done if anything peaked your interest. And the best thing is -- you can totally learn to do this yourselves with enough practice.

I will try to be a bigger man from now on and refrain from responses outside of topic...

[Adrock]

Wait, wait, wait... so you don't want us to use youtube videos to discuss topics that can be discussed without gameplay ("Other people make assumptions based on youtube gameplays."), but you want us to watch youtube videos to discuss gameplay before even having played the game?

You are impossible.

[Shaymin]

GAWD DAMN
I have the strangest boner right now

[Khushrenada]

Or go out, isn't it friday night for you?

Could be. It's hard to say for sure since every day of the week is kicking yo' ass.

[azeke]

Yesterday's Treehouse footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs7a_vcXFQU

And IGN interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcAHdFufiQI

[Spak-Spang]

Wow...what happened?

I don't even know what this is about. 

Are we talking about gaming and the representation of women in games?  Are we asking if this game is sexist or feminist?  Does it even really matter?

For my two cents.  I loved the irony of the developers talking about creating a strong female character, capable of some of the most badass moves that and attacks that male gaming characters don't get...and then dressing her in sexy outfits and stating that the big change was giving her glasses to look smart and supposedly a realistic female body.

It is funny to me, because I feel like there are two different feminist movements out there.  One movement is what I consider true feminism and is looking for true equality and protect for women in the workplace, government, and life.  These are people trying to fight the glass ceiling, the difficulty of women running for office, and stop abuses that were/are sometimes overlooked by society. 

Then there are the feminists that want woman to be just like men...and it seems there main push in this realm is sexuality.  Now, before I get labeled.  I think it is quite awful that there is a double standard against women in promiscuity and sexuality...and I think the idea it is OK for men and not for women is awful.  And conservative people that had this mindset always had a double standard.  They could not live by their own moral code and so forced it on the "fairer" sex so that they can feel less guilty doing what they wanted.  However, I am to say the answer to this isn't to sexualize women as much as men, but to actually live by the true standards of your morals for both genders.

Now again, before I get labelled.  I am not saying people need to live by my moral codes...what I am saying is these people that setup this "sexual oppression" against women, did so not for any of their own moral or ethical codes, but because they were selfish, and if they want to keep them for their own personal values then they need to strictly hold both genders accountable...and so if the major culture still finds values in these ethics and morals then it should push the more conservative role on the offenders not push the for the subjected to become more like the perpetrators.  That is backwards logic. 

So when I look at this video and it claims she is a strong, feminist character I laugh...because it me it is a stereotypical male oriented view on what he wants for a strong feminist...not necessarily what is truly good for women.

Again, just my view.  What does this have to do with the game.  Actually I think nothing.  The game is what it is.  And I do not think what the creators claim or not claim the character to be takes anything away from it. 

So what is the game?  A 3D action-hack'N slash game with a female protagonist that uses magic which requires her to strip down and bare her body for the most powerful attacks.  To me this sounds like satire of the highest kind on the gaming community...but even that is subject to debate.

Also I think the rant above was quite rude against the other poster and you could have made the same rant and post without sounding angry and offended at the other person.  And if you wanted to sound that way, I am sorry that person made you feel like such...but it was an uncalled for tone.


EDIT:


Wow after reading the comments of this debate.  I kinda wish I didn't get involved.  But some things annoyed me.


About the idea of hypocrisy from men.  I think this is an annoying and foolish argument.  First, it states that if you are not perfectly on the side of an issue then you can't support it.  A good example of my point is the chocolate industry.  I probably should not eat any chocolate unless I know 100% the chocolate does not use child labor, but I do.  That does not mean I can't still be against child labor, and call companies out that use child labor. 


Plus, for argument sake could you not argue that some porn supports women having a stronger, healthier sexuality in culture.  (This to me is a sick argument that I do not support, but I think it holds.)


Another point is if someone objects to nudity then they must be afraid of sexually strong characters.  NOT SO...it could mean that I want women to be strong and can be sexually strong, but I don't need them to be stripping to show that.  You know, because that is how men show everyone they are sexually strong, by taking off their clothes in a fight. 


Finally, parody and satire must be very careful not to truly become what they are mocking.  If you become it...or even worse become an overly exaggerated form of it...are you really making awareness or are you exploiting just as much?  I remember a comic character Joe "Mad" created with boobs 3X the size of a normal woman.  His logic was he was doing satire...but actually it seemed like he was worse and just exploiting the same ideas of comic book women.


The point is...everyone is fighting the system the wrong way.  Do you want to prove that gaming has a poor image of what female video game characters should be.  Then make a different image.  So a strong female character dressed and behaving like strong women do in the real world.  Write their story and dialog in such that you see they are strong physically and are not bullied or weak in any way.  You can make her attractive, but dress her realistically for the situation at hand. 


 

[azeke]

New Famitsu scans:

[Adrock]

A great write up and some comparison videos of Bayonetta on Wii U, 360, and PS3.

TLDR: The Wii U version is essentially on par with the 360 version. The PS3 version is still awful. 360 version has better light bloom. Wii U version has better shadows, less screen tearing, and more importantly to me, better load times even with the other versions loaded onto a hard drive. Impressive!

I only had access to the PS3 version which is partially why I gave up on even trying to play the original Bayonetta so I'm glad I finally get a second chance with arguably the best version of the game. Hooray for things working out in the end.

Bayonetta on Wii U vs Bayonetta on 360

Bayonetta on Wii U vs. what's supposed to be Bayonetta on PS3

Frame-rate comparison of all three versions.

[BranDonk Kong]

Sadly, sales are in the exact opposite order as framerate.

[Fatty The Hutt]

Sadly, sales are in the exact opposite order as framerate.

You seem to be taking a lot of pleasure in the (arguably) low Japan sales. I don't get it?

[NWR_insanolord]

I think it's more just Brandogg being Brandogg. He's pretty much always a sarcastic asshole, and I mean that in the best possible way.

[BranDonk Kong]

I wouldn't say I take pleasure, otherwise I would say "Happily." I have no stock in Bayonetta's sales. Once again, I wish I could applaud insano. Things are getting weird.