Post by: Smash_Brother on April 07, 2006, 12:01:08 PM
Red Steel
Details: (thanks to Trip1eX)
-Game development started shortly after E3 2005. Ubisoft saw and demoed the controller before E3 2005.
-Ubisoft Paris took their idea directly to Iwata and Miyamoto, and were given the go ahead. After that meeting they were given prototype controllers. The article states that Ubisoft worked "closely" with Nintendo's engineers in Japan on the title
-Game Informer mentions that while conducting the interviews with Ubisoft, they were handed the "latest version" of the controller
-During the beginning of the game, you are encouraged to use your weapons ruthlessly, but as the game progresses you become more proficient and strategic. This gameplay idea led Ubisoft to decide to give the game a martial arts setting. "Enter the Yakuza"
-The first third of the game will be all about being "brutal by necessity"
-You will be less precise and favor more devastating weapons (machine guns)
-As you progress and become more precise, smaller guns will be used
-"The goal...is to use five bullets to kill five enemies"
-"When fighting with this level of skill, the music and sound effects will reflect it, remaining calm and peaceful"
-"When you fight brutally, the sounds around you grow increasingly more intense"
-"Audio feedback"
-Freeze shot: by fighting effciently you fill the Freeze Shot gauge...fighting chaotically causes to decreases
-When the gauge is filled you can hit a button to momentarily stop time, and then target specific locations on enemy bodies
-Headshots thus are tempting, but non lethal shots, such as shooting guns out of enemy hand, can be more beneficial
-By defeating high ranking leaders who command others and sparing their lives, you will be rewarded. He will offer you respect and help (guns, help, new weapons, alternate paths, etc)
-Respect plays a MAJOR part in the game
-Flailing your sword isn't a smart idea
-Specific motions with the controller will trigger combos (in the final game)
-Tracing an X in the air, for instance, will unleash a devastating attack
-You can stop these combos at any time by simply pausing your own movement. So if you do something that leaves you open to attack, you won't be screwed
-New moves will be taught to you by two mentors in the game
-One will teach you gun tactics, and another will teach sword tactics
-If you don't show the proper respect to them, they won't help you
-Friendly/respectful interaction is tied to the controller
-You signal "yes/no" answers by nodding the controller up or down or shaking it from side to side
-You show extra respect by bowing to the masters
-Ubisoft is still coming up with other interactions
-"You can act disrespectively as well: there are no cut scenes in the game - all conversations take place in game, as in Half Life 2. However unlike that game, characters wont keep prattling on if you walk away from them. They will react angrily to your imputent behavior"
-Staying in the master's good graces is key: they give you missions that can be tackled in any order
-You track down the gang leaders and try to turn them to your side. If you don't, they will join Tokai's (the main villian) gang
-You have to prove you are worthy to them by battling them and sparing their lives.
-You will need as many of them with you as possible to face Tokai. Without their help, you'll have a rough time when you finally face him
-You turn gang leaders to your side by besting them in battle and stopping a deadly blow miliseconds before it strikes
-Training sessions are offered by the two masters so you can hone your skills
Multiplayer:
-Split screen multiplayer with traditional deathmatches
-Totally original multiplayer modes Ubisoft is not revealing yet. Wait until E3
-They didn't talk about Nintendo Wi Fi (NDAs). Full details haven't been revealed yet
-Revolution works by placing a small sensor bar either above or below any TV
-You can stand at any angle and not lose any accuracy. You can even take your controller to a friend's house and instantly start playing without syncing up the controller
-"Perhaps most impressive is the fact that although splitscreen reduces the amount of onscreen space you are playing in, you don't have to make smaller movements - you can gesture as wildly as you want, and it won't interfere with the other player's onscreen quadrants
Game Informer's hands on:
-The two triggers on the front of the analog unit activate ducking and jumping. The analog stick controls movement, and the revmote controls aiming. No rails.
-Level consisted of shooting ranges that popped out from behind cover
"Aiming with the controller is as simple as using a laser pointer. You point your hand at a target and hit the trigger on the underside of the controller to fire
-"Unlike other FPS games, which tie the camera and aiming together, Red Steel's camera follows your aim with a slight delay. If, for example, you point to the edge of the screen, the camera will turn to re-center on your view after a second. With the sensitivity of the controller, a standard FPS control would move too much, potentially making the player feel ill
-"Thanks to the improved reaction that the controller offers, the team can create gunfight scenerios that would be extraordinarily diffilcult with a standard controller"
-Most console FPS games limit their enemies to horizontal planes to prevent player frustration, but targets on a verticle plane are just as easy to hit with the Revolution controller
-You can aim at a target as quickly as you can move your hand
-In the demo targets popped up on rooftops and in second story windows, as well as behind cover points on the ground, and all were equally easy to hit
-While you can quickly shoot enemies anywhere on screen, Red Steel never feels in a light-gun game - this is a true FPS, one that feels like it has drawn from the best of both the PC and console shooter worlds
-According to lead game designer Oriola, it takes roughly three seconds to turn completely around around in most console shooters, while it takes about one-quarter second in a PC game. In Red Stel, it takes one second
-AI characters will care for themselves. They will go for cover, attack you while you're reloading. They focus on risk management
-"They won't walk around a table to get to you. They will simply jump over the table"
-"The benchmark for their intelligence and aggressiveness, says Oriola, is the PC title F.E.A.R., which has widely been praised for it's AI"
-Destructable environments. There's a pic of a giant explosion on a carm with gang members being thrown left and right by the blast. Nice effects. The lighting on the explosion and the store signs is pretty good
-GI: we found Red Steel most enjoyable to play while standing up
-Straffing is extremely easy and effortless
-"Aiming felt similar to using a PC mouse, and it's possible to quickly explore every direction in a three-dimensional space with quick gestures"
-"In the finished game, you will be able to push forward with the controller to knock over an object to use for cover, pull it backwards to reload, and twist it to lead behind walls"
-Lob grenades with the controller, or roll them on the ground like a bowling ball
-"gangsta style" shooting is cool
-Total immersion. Feels like you are living the game
-GI: the Revolution is real
-Andy: It could change the very way all gamers are played now and forever
Post by: Strell on April 07, 2006, 12:03:06 PM
ALL YOU PEOPLE WHINING ABOUT GRAPHICS CAN STFU NOW.
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 07, 2006, 12:05:28 PM
The graphics look better than this current Generation...and actual does feel like Xbox 360 or PS3, just no High Resolution. I am perfectly ok with that.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2006, 12:07:34 PM
I don't like how those people are holding their arm up like that though. That would get pretty annoying pretty fast. Hopefully that's just a "demo position" for the magazine and you just as easily sit on your butt with your arm resting on your leg.
Still it's cool just because it's, you know, A REV GAME!
Post by: Kairon on April 07, 2006, 12:15:01 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2006, 12:19:06 PM
One thing I like about Nintendo is that they don't give you "fake" screens but sadly there's nothing stopping third parties from doing it.
Post by: bustin98 on April 07, 2006, 12:20:38 PM
But this is a great find. We're going to see the resurection of gun games.
Post by: trip1eX on April 07, 2006, 12:25:06 PM
If hte latter it will be still be good, but could be why the graphics are better than thought.
YOu know it's like 2dish fighting games. The graphics can be alot better because they don't have to create this massive 3d world. Same goes with racing games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 07, 2006, 12:30:02 PM
The game is a FPS, hence the need for the nunchuck design...
Post by: vudu on April 07, 2006, 12:31:23 PM
QuoteI'd say FPS. Both players are using the nunchuck attachment, which signifies you will have free control over your player.
Originally posted by: trip1eX
What kind of game is this? fps? Or just one of those arcade light gun type games.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2006, 12:31:56 PM
Post by: bustin98 on April 07, 2006, 12:34:17 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2006, 12:34:43 PM
If you look at the picture the hand is tilted because the player's hand is tilted! So maybe if you did put the gun down it would be like shooting from the hip. Though I really don't want to hold my arm up for a whole game there is definitely a "wow! neato!" factor with the hand in the game responding exactly like your hand does.
Post by: vudu on April 07, 2006, 12:42:34 PM
EDIT: So long long do you think it will be before a mod comes in here and removes the pictures? Hope everyone is saving these on their PC.
EDIT #2: One hour, thirty-nine minutes.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 07, 2006, 12:44:48 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 07, 2006, 12:45:54 PM
Seriously, it looks cool, and I think the fatigue of holding your arm out could add an interesting game element. gangsters and special forces don't point their gun straight out for hours at a time while walking around, they hold them in a carrying position. It adds a quick draw element.
EDIT: http://gameinformer.com/News/Story/200604/N06.0407.1251.24078.htm
Post by: Renny on April 07, 2006, 12:47:10 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 07, 2006, 12:54:58 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 07, 2006, 01:13:08 PM
Post by: Artimus on April 07, 2006, 01:14:20 PM
The tilt thing is the best part of this though, it tells us how great this is going to be...
EDIT: I'd say they definitely are concept. Why? The two enemies are identical in both photos.
Post by: Caliban on April 07, 2006, 01:17:01 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 07, 2006, 01:22:49 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Post by: K-RPG on April 07, 2006, 01:23:17 PM
endangeredgamer.blogspot.com
I forgot what HTML to use when linking on this site......
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 07, 2006, 01:23:38 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 07, 2006, 01:25:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: K-RPG
The magazine apparently claims that they're real-time, according to a blogger who uploaded the scans.
I hope so... looking at it I got a nasty flashback to "Who shot Johnny Rock?" for the Sega CD.
Post by: Kairon on April 07, 2006, 01:39:06 PM
AlkdjasjklfMnfjHQEOWKLAWFHJKASBNGWELKQKFMQWJKHQkigswj...*ahem*
MORE SCANSfca,sklfafmva
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: trip1eX on April 07, 2006, 01:39:51 PM
"you'll be able to lob grenades by imitating throwing a ball with the controller in your hand or even roll it along the ground with an underhand throw." - From the GI article
Post by: BiLdItUp1 on April 07, 2006, 01:45:38 PM
Thank G-d, I was going insane in that stupid specs thread.
This is intriguing to say the least. Graphics looked pretty pimpin'. Even if it is a light-gun style game, I haven't played one of those in years, and it may well be more fun than a traditional FPS. And if it has sword elements...
If this is hyped enough, it may well be one of the killer apps at launch.
Did they say if it's online? That would seal the deal...
So this mag is on sale now? Screw the scans, I'll just buy it outright...cheap enough to strain my eyes, I am not.
-eli b.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 07, 2006, 01:56:11 PM
I don't think the screens are concept art. There are polygon-saving tricks used that wouldn't be necessary, or bothered with, in a concept render. Look at the bottles in the vending machine, for example. That's a corrugated surface with a clever texture applied. I wouldn't discount the possibility of the screenshots being doctored, but the underlying tech is definitely impressive.
The story sounds interesting, too. I'm not aware of an FPS that takes place in the Japanese underworld (as in Yakuza, not demons). Swords, guns, grenades, pushing over furniture for cover, and online multiplayer!
Post by: Pale on April 07, 2006, 01:58:12 PM
In order for it to feel like an fps, they would need edge sensitivity on the cross hairs. That could very well be the case, but that could also make aiming confusing... I dunno. I'm anxious to actually feel it. E3 can't come soon enough.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 07, 2006, 02:03:17 PM
Quote
Strafing around a target is incredibly easy, as keeping the controller pointed at an object while you move with the analog stick keeps you focused on your target. Aiming felt similar to using a computer mouse, as it is possible to quickly explore every direction in a three-dimensional space with quick gestures.
Post by: Strell on April 07, 2006, 02:05:31 PM
Final system name: Nintendo RS
Just a thought.
Post by: Pale on April 07, 2006, 02:07:35 PM
Like I said, edge sensitivity would probably work, but it is still going to feel different.
Post by: trip1eX on April 07, 2006, 02:13:20 PM
ON top of it there's more than one way to program how the controller works. You can have freeplay on the screen and only move your view when you aim it off screen or you could make it pretty much like a mouse/analog stick.
Really it's up to the programmers.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 07, 2006, 02:20:07 PM
I don't think moving the crosshair to the edge would be disconcerting, although for circle-strafing I'd prefer that the limit be fairly far from the actual edge. There's also the possibility of having a button that locks the view so you can aim freely while using the analog stick and twistability of the remote to lean out from behind cover, or dodge for that matter. After all, why turn over a table if you can't crouch behind it? Plus using the remote to both look around and swing your sword implies some sort of mode switching.
Post by: Strell on April 07, 2006, 02:21:37 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2006, 02:36:34 PM
This thing is FPS games kick ass and lightgun games don't. So we've decided to assume it's an FPS because it's more fun that way.
Post by: Kairon on April 07, 2006, 02:37:34 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: ThePerm on April 07, 2006, 02:42:37 PM
Ubisoft is getting so much attention right now, its good to be the one out of the gate first. By releasing all this revolution information before everyone else, Ubisoft just guaranteed they would have a top seller. Plus the game looks badass.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 07, 2006, 02:43:28 PM
Guy there says they're in-game, and I want to believe him very, very badly.
Post by: Pale on April 07, 2006, 02:43:30 PM
Don't get me wrong though guys, I'm not saying the game will suck and I'm not saying that it won't feel just like an FPS... I'm just saying that it is going to be interesting to finally see the setup in action.
Post by: trip1eX on April 07, 2006, 02:49:54 PM
"it brings something new to the fps genre." Sounds like it's an fps to me.
The article also says they went to Japan to show Miyamoto and Iwata their idea and got the first revolution controller prototype. And they worked closely with Nintendo engineers.
Post by: BigJim on April 07, 2006, 02:50:25 PM
My first impression was artist renditions, but if we can get confirmation that these are in-game, even if doctored by the developer, then I will say "wow!"
Post by: jasonditz on April 07, 2006, 02:51:37 PM
I love lightgun games, and I hope we get some.
Post by: Artimus on April 07, 2006, 02:57:28 PM
Post by: IceCold on April 07, 2006, 03:05:28 PM
QuoteHahahaha - you still managed to fit in the signature..
More scans! More scans! ADijNJLDAJDNJLAFNMQIOJQAlkdjasjklfMnfjHQEOWKLAWFHJKASBNGWELKQKFMQWJKHQkigswj
...*ahem*
MORE SCANSfca,sklfafmva
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
QuoteBest news. That's EXACTLY what Nintendo should be doing - work closely with all the major third parties to implement the functionality intuitively.
Originally posted by: trip1eX
The article also says they went to Japan to show Miyamoto and Iwata their idea and got the first revolution controller prototype. And they worked closely with Nintendo engineers.
Post by: zakkiel on April 07, 2006, 03:32:45 PM
QuoteIt can't be edge sensitivity if you can circle-strafe just be keeping your cursor on the target, unless the target is at exactly the right angle. My money's on a combination of edge sensitivity and using an L button to activate turning. Pressing the button would center the screen on the cursor, and holding the button would force it to follow the cursor. Turning far enough without pressing the button would still turn the screen (gives a more natural feel).
I just meant that saying the crosshairs moved on screen means to me that it won't feel like using a mouse...
Post by: stevey on April 07, 2006, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: slacker on April 07, 2006, 05:18:21 PM
Post by: Magik on April 07, 2006, 05:30:12 PM
As for the shots themselves, they definitely look good enough for me and gives a good indication of the graphical power of the REV, but I think I'm going to hold out and wait for a video of actual gameplay because a nice still-shot will mean nothing if the actual gameplay is crap.
Post by: Michael8983 on April 07, 2006, 05:32:06 PM
The developers would probably be working on some PS3/360 FPS that would never even be ported to the Rev.
I'd say the Revmote is definitly proving itself.
Post by: Dasmos on April 07, 2006, 05:44:04 PM
These graphics aren't mind-blowing. I am not sure how I feel about them.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 07, 2006, 06:08:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
These graphics aren't mind-blowing. I am not sure how I feel about them.
1. They're first-gen and they look just as good as PD0.
2. The true focus of this game will be the ease of use when it comes to handling the gun and sword mechanics (and yes, there are pictures of characters in the game wielding swords).
3. People were afraid that the Rev would have N64 graphics or something. Seeing them this good will lay a LOT of fears to rest.
From the original blog:
anyways, i just finished reading the actual article in game informer, and it says that the sword and guns can be twisted in your hand, by twisting the rev's remote. so you can shoot gangster style and block with the sword. also, there is split screen and online multiplayer planned, just no details yet. you can also jump over and take cover behind objects by moving the rev's remote towards a upturned table or a wall, and reload by pulling the remote back. by the way, they are ingame screenshots.
Online multiplayer, apparently confirmed.
Post by: nemo_83 on April 07, 2006, 06:21:45 PM
The graphics don't look bad but they aren't mind blowing either; it shows just how hard the 360 is to develop for in spite of it's CPU specs.
Post by: animecyberrat on April 07, 2006, 06:50:45 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 07, 2006, 07:04:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Why would GI get this exclusive; seriously, GI does not like Nintendo.
But how are they with Ubi?
Post by: Rhoq on April 07, 2006, 07:07:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
These graphics aren't mind-blowing. I am not sure how I feel about them.
They certainly look to be on-par with the X360 launch titles to me. These scans couldn't have come at a better time. Now that people know what to expect from the Revolution, I hope that all of the bitching and moaning can stop now. It looks exactly as I expected, if not slightly better than what I was hoping for. The Revolution will not only be able to compete against the X360 and PS3, but if the controller works as well as it's said to, the Revolution will kick major ass even if it's specs lack the power of Microsoft's and Sony's next-gen consoles.
Post by: trip1eX on April 07, 2006, 07:20:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Why would GI get this exclusive; seriously, GI does not like Nintendo.
The graphics don't look bad but they aren't mind blowing either; it shows just how hard the 360 is to develop for in spite of it's CPU specs.
YEah GI hates NIntendo.
Well the cpu cores in the 360 are in-order cores. They differ completely from the GAmecube cpu, pc cpus and even the xbox cpu which are out of order cpus. The in-order cpus can be a ton slower and even best case will probably never realize even close the their theoretical power than out of order cpus can realize.
The problem with in-order is the cpu can't go execute a set of instructions while waiting on another. The cpus just have to wait. This can dramatically slow them down.
I'm sure they'll take more advantage of them by late 2k7, but even then 3 3ghz cores ain't the same as 3 3ghz pc cpus becaues of the in-order thing.
Another reason they aren't comparable to 3 pc cpus at the same speed is because of the cache which when totaled is less than what pc cpu would have. Cache has a huge effect on cpu speed.
Post by: Artimus on April 07, 2006, 07:37:23 PM
The won't look as good as 360 when on a TV, but they definitely look 2-3 times better.
Post by: Jdub03 on April 07, 2006, 07:40:06 PM
http://www.endangeredgamer.blogspot.com/
Post by: SixthAngel on April 07, 2006, 09:00:21 PM
I kind of hope you can shoot like a light gun game and move like a first person shooter. It is something that hasn't been done before that I know of and can't be done on the competition. Being able to shoot anywhere on screen also makes it more like your actually shooting a gun then simply moving the cursor over them.
When you guys talk about edge detection do you mean when the reticule reaches the edge of the screen you will turn? If that works this game should have the best of both fps and light gun games. It's still first person, still a shooter, it just seems better.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 07, 2006, 09:30:17 PM
Whoever thinks these shots are concept art has never seen concept art. Concept art is hand drawn. Concept art doesn't run on a computer.
With that backlighting on every character it looks thoroughly ubisofted, there's just no reason for that backlight to be there (no light sources placed like that). Backlights are a popular mechanic to make games look more interesting (like Lensflares!). If these things are really added by the game it'll look strange in motion.
And couldn't that guy have used a freaking scanner?
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 07, 2006, 09:33:08 PM
Also, did I mention how much better this is for Nintendo's image? The first Rev game to be shown off will be a FP shooter/slasher with full Revmote support, online play, and an awesome engine.
Seriously, this is exactly what Nintendo needs to be doing: catching some serious attention with games which make their console look just as mature as any other, it not more so.
I hope this isn't some sick "month late" april fools joke. If it is, I will never buy anything from Gamestop ever again in my life out of spite...
Post by: Mario on April 07, 2006, 09:40:54 PM
Post by: Artimus on April 07, 2006, 09:41:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
tripleX: The GC's CPU was inline as well. Or at least its OOOE features were so underdeveloped it didn't behave much differently.
Whoever thinks these shots are concept art has never seen concept art. Concept art is hand drawn. Concept art doesn't run on a computer.
With that backlighting on every character it looks thoroughly ubisofted, there's just no reason for that backlight to be there (no light sources placed like that). Backlights are a popular mechanic to make games look more interesting (like Lensflares!). If these things are really added by the game it'll look strange in motion.
And couldn't that guy have used a freaking scanner?
I don't think they mean conceptual art, but conceptual mock-ups.
Post by: TrueNerd on April 07, 2006, 09:53:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
This will likely be the first console FPS which I'll actually enjoy.
Also, did I mention how much better this is for Nintendo's image? The first Rev game to be shown off will be a FP shooter/slasher with full Revmote support, online play, and an awesome engine.
Seriously, this is exactly what Nintendo needs to be doing: catching some serious attention with games which make their console look just as mature as any other, it not more so.
I hope this isn't some sick "month late" april fools joke. If it is, I will never buy anything from Gamestop ever again in my life out of spite...
I totally didn't even think about the image issue. It IS a good first game to show off. It looks good visually and looks cool. Sadly the latter is important.
There's no way GI is screwing with us. The backlash from such a prank would be tremendous, as your anti-Gamestop reaction would likely be just one of many like it. This news is on the front page of their website right now and it's the cover story for their May issue. It simply can't be a joke. It's for real.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 07, 2006, 10:38:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd There's no way GI is screwing with us. The backlash from such a prank would be tremendous, as your anti-Gamestop reaction would likely be just one of many like it. This news is on the front page of their website right now and it's the cover story for their May issue. It simply can't be a joke. It's for real.
It just seems too good to be true.
1. Realistic FPS with swordplay (bound to garner many fans, if done right) set to be a Rev launch title.
2. Very mature game and gamePLAY to combat the kiddié image. If I wanted, I could laugh at people and say, "What? You still play that ghey xbox sh!t? That thing's for girls and homoz! Nintendo games let you use the controller as the handle of swords and guns and let you chop people up and lay them out, GANGSTA STYLE!" I admit, everything in those last sentences is atrocious, but I guarantee you that this exact mentality is what sells consoles to insecure gamers and, unfortunately, they have money too.
3. Nintendo aided Ubi in the development, meaning Nintendo is in full diplomacy mode, willing to reach out to third parties to help them make their games all they can be on the Rev.
4. Online multiplayer swordfights?!
5. Contrary to popular belief, the Rev's graphics will not be just slightly below those of the N64.
It's like everything I wanted to hear about the Rev and what Nintendo is doing with 3rd parties, hence my fear that it'll turn out to be untrue.
Post by: Artimus on April 07, 2006, 10:41:36 PM
Post by: pudu on April 07, 2006, 10:42:18 PM
Che (former 1up/EGM employee) has posted the following comment:
Quote
Looks great. Am Hyped. Ubi art touch-up in effect. Real game looks less good. Still excited. No damage control here. Just in talking to friends in the press who have seen actual screens of the game, they confirm as much. Again, I am still excited to see what Ubi does with this game. As an fps nut, I see lots of potential here.
BUT also: Evidence Otherwise
Quote
UPDATE #2 - Prince NineOne1 is a team member of Ubisoft that has been known to post on IGN’s forums. His job status has been 100% confirmed by IGN. Having said that, Prince NineOne1 has commented on the screeshots of Red Steel, trying to squash rumors that these are artwork, or renders. Click the thumb below to check it out.
Said thumb: HERE
I not exactly sure what to think. Would Nintendo allow the first shots to be released by a thrid party and then allow them to doctor them as our first impression of the Rev when they very well know that they would just be raising our expectations only to crush them in almost exactly one month? The answer SHOULD be a big ol' "NO!". I'm fully expecting these screens to be a fairly good representation of what they will look like in the finalized game. Maybe a bit better, maybe a bit worse, but for the most part it will look about the same. And on that note: this game is looking to be pretty damn awsome!
EDIT!: Just found this post started by NineOne1 himself on the IGN forums. If you can see them go HERE
Going to read through it and his other posts to find more and will add in some quotes here.
EDIT 2: some quotes from NineOne1's thread:
Quote
Well guys, I'll be honest...I wasn't sure how people would react to a new game that was not 1st party or an existing brand.
I want to thank you for keeping an open-mind and supporting 3rd Party Developers like Ubisoft.
We have truly studied this innovative console and I promise that we'll do our best to deliver the ultimate experience at launch and, as always, we keep our ears open to what gamers want - so keep your voices heard...we are listening.
Thanks again!
-P911
P.S.
We'll be back in a few months to ask you guys what you want for a pre-order item. Why? Cuz that's how we do.
Quote
Once the magazine comes out - I will elaborate more. I wish I could talk right now but I'm in a bit of a "silent mode" - you know? You guys weren't supposed to see this magazine until next week!
I want to tell you all my thoughts on the power of the system, what I thought of the controls, etc.
And I will...at the approriate time. (ie. Next Week)
For now, I will say - NINTENDOMEGATON!
-P911
Quote
you guys don't know what I do? You've never seen me on the IGN boards before? I'm exactly what my title says - a suggestion sponge. I help conduct focus groups, listen to gamers, and work with the development team to make sure everything is in line with what is expected of this game. Trust me - not as easy as it sounds. That's the TOP-DOWN look.
lots of other stuff, too.
Well - I'm gunna go out now.
I'll see you guys next week.
-P911
Not a whole lot...but thought I'd post it He says it's a launch title and that he will talk more after the magazine is out.
One last Edit confirming it's not a rail shooter: Link for those who can see it
Quote
"OK - maybe I will comment on 1 thing because it so absurd for a next-gen game.
This game is not a rail shooter - that would be 100% NES and not Next-Gen.
-P911"
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 08, 2006, 12:11:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It just seems too good to be true.
1. Realistic FPS with swordplay (bound to garner many fans, if done right) set to be a Rev launch title.
4. Online multiplayer swordfights?!
That just made me think of this
Nintendo has already had the idea, maybe they got it from Ubisoft
Post by: Kairon on April 08, 2006, 12:18:00 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on April 08, 2006, 03:06:26 AM
(brilliant PR move, nintendo.)
Post by: Mario on April 08, 2006, 04:12:03 AM
IF this is good enough, it's gonna be the next Goldeneye / Halo, Ubisoft are incredibly smart for getting in early. Which also begs the question how many other FPS games are in development for Rev? Are they all going to cut into each others sales or will the fact that there's lots of them draw in the big FPS crowd?
Anyone remember something about a big scoop in Nintendo Power? Could it have been this? When is that issue due out, or is it already out and turned out to be nothing? Something's telling me we're gonna get a big third party blowout before E3.
Post by: Caliban on April 08, 2006, 05:11:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pudu
P911: P.S. We'll be back in a few months to ask you guys what you want for a pre-order item. Why? Cuz that's how we do.
Pre-Order Item? LOL, I bet it is an add-on, maybe the hilt of a katana that lets the Revmote snug confortably into it, or maybe a holster for the Revmote, or even maybe the handle of a gun. Oh yeah, this is truly becoming very hyped, I'm hyped as hell dammit and this is only a 3rd party game lol.
Post by: Mario on April 08, 2006, 05:28:41 AM
Post by: Renny on April 08, 2006, 06:05:16 AM
Post by: odifiend on April 08, 2006, 07:17:01 AM
As Mario said, Ubisoft and anyone else is smart to get in early - the potential for new ideas and IPs to take off is in the Rev more so than in any (non)competing system.
Post by: MaryJane on April 08, 2006, 08:53:12 AM
Chew on that.
Look at how inferior the graphics are. They don't look any better than the first xbox. What is nintendo thinking, it barely looks better than Gamecube. This is so disappointing.
Wait a minute no one is saying that! Cuz it's not true. Have the graphics been touched up? It wouldn't surprise me all too much especially since graphics don't always translate well in pictures. Then again, I don't think Nintendo would allow something like that, if they had a say in it.
Post by: IceCold on April 08, 2006, 10:16:12 AM
QuoteI had, at first, thought it was Ubisoft Montreal, but I read it was Ubisoft Paris.. Can anyone confirm this?
Is this the same game that Free Radical is rumored to be working on?
Post by: trip1eX on April 08, 2006, 10:29:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
tripleX: The GC's CPU was inline as well. Or at least its OOOE features were so underdeveloped it didn't behave much differently.
IT's called in-order and that's not true. The GCs cpu was a full powerpc cpu.
****
Yeah I really think there's a ton of potential here for some great 'gamey' games. Games that are fun to play.
And I really think the controller is going to make first person games alot more enjoyable if not just for the fact it's going to be alot easier to look around and aim. That alone will make them much more enjoyable imo.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 12:30:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX And I really think the controller is going to make first person games alot more enjoyable if not just for the fact it's going to be alot easier to look around and aim. That alone will make them much more enjoyable imo.
I'd take it a step further than that: I think FPSs not played with the Revmote are going to seem dated and clunky by comparison.
Seriously, how can an analogue stick ever HOPE to compete with the ability to point your controller at the screen and target enemies in that fashion? And elements such as sword fighting will never be properly done with a controller, whereas the Rev is perfectly capable of making them a reality.
I almost forgot:
6. It'll be good to see a marketing budget OTHER than Nintendo's pushing the Rev. Ubi will advertise this game like crazy, no doubt.
7. If the first batch of Rev games were nothing but "concept games" and "tech demos", using abstract and far-fetched ideas for gaming which mainstream audiences couldn't relate to, I think it would bode horribly for the console. If the first batch of Rev games are existing genres which are made VASTLY superior by the Revmote, then I think the Rev will definitely hit the ground running.
I can't stress enough how important it will be to EASE gamers onto the Rev with the franchises they're used to before trying to sell them something new and different. Lure 'em in with the tried and true, keep 'em with the new and eccentric.
Also, where the F*CK is this "blue ocean" strategy coming into play? Dropping in games which are aimed at the hardcore doesn't exactly pang of "not competing but making the competition irrelevant".
Post by: Artimus on April 08, 2006, 12:32:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, where the F*CK is this "blue ocean" strategy coming into play? Dropping in games which are aimed at the hardcore doesn't exactly pang of "not competing but making the competition irrelevant".
It's one game not even developed by Nintendo?
EDIT: New snippits from the article:
Quote
...it is often more beneficial to take a non-lethal shot, such as shooting a gun out of an enemy's hands.
So, so far we have:
+More intutitive aiming
+Larger inviromental interaction
+More intuitive reloading
+Multiple gun angles (first time ever)
+Dearming enemies simply by aiming
All new/rare/innovative features made possible by the controller. I'm sure I left a couple off.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 02:26:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus It's one game not even developed by Nintendo?
I was just pointing out mostly to silence the prior concerns Nintendo fans had regarding the strategy, mostly Ian, as he was the most vocal about it, being afraid that he wouldn't like the games since they supposedly won't be aimed at him.
This is proof that games will still very much be aimed at gamers, though I do not doubt that Nintendo still aims to expand the market.
I'm just glad, once again, that we have proof that existing genres will be improved on the Rev rather than it being a host to "innovative" games and shunning all else. The fact that Nintendo helped Ubi in the creation of this game tells me that Nintendo understands the need to reconnect with existing gamers, which is something we were previously uncertain about.
Post by: nemo_83 on April 08, 2006, 02:43:18 PM
Post by: animecyberrat on April 08, 2006, 02:48:18 PM
so far this game is announced as a Rev launch game, if its an exclusive that would help sell systems and copies of the game, but if they go dcide to go multiplatofrm it oculd be advantagous for Nintedno because PS3 gamers would see how out of date thier controller really is in comparison.
I never had doubts though that teh fps genres would beocme king on rev, taht was a given considering all we know, what I ams till concorned about though is Fighting games and action/shooting games.
Still this does reaffirm my former belief that the rev will be a major player next gen and this just goes to show that it will at least be improved graphicaly more than we were fearing.
Post by: Artimus on April 08, 2006, 02:51:59 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 04:07:53 PM
Details:
-Game development started shortly after E3 2005. Ubisoft saw and demoed the controller before E3 2005.
-Ubisoft Paris took their idea directly to Iwata and Miyamoto, and were given the go ahead. After that meeting they were given prototype controllers. The article states that Ubisoft worked "closely" with Nintendo's engineers in Japan on the title
-Game Informer mentions that while conducting the interviews with Ubisoft, they were handed the "latest version" of the controller
-During the beginning of the game, you are encouraged to use your weapons ruthlessly, but as the game progresses you become more proficient and strategic. This gameplay idea led Ubisoft to decide to give the game a martial arts setting. "Enter the Yakuza"
-The first third of the game will be all about being "brutal by necessity"
-You will be less precise and favor more devastating weapons (machine guns)
-As you progress and become more precise, smaller guns will be used
-"The goal...is to use five bullets to kill five enemies"
-"When fighting with this level of skill, the music and sound effects will reflect it, remaining calm and peaceful"
-"When you fight brutally, the sounds around you grow increasingly more intense"
-"Audio feedback"
-Freeze shot: by fighting effciently you fill the Freeze Shot gauge...fighting chaotically causes to decreases
-When the gauge is filled you can hit a button to momentarily stop time, and then target specific locations on enemy bodies
-Headshots thus are tempting, but non lethal shots, such as shooting guns out of enemy hand, can be more beneficial
-By defeating high ranking leaders who command others and sparing their lives, you will be rewarded. He will offer you respect and help (guns, help, new weapons, alternate paths, etc)
-Respect plays a MAJOR part in the game
-Flailing your sword isn't a smart idea
-Specific motions with the controller will trigger combos (in the final game)
-Tracing an X in the air, for instance, will unleash a devastating attack
-You can stop these combos at any time by simply pausing your own movement. So if you do something that leaves you open to attack, you won't be screwed
-New moves will be taught to you by two mentors in the game
-One will teach you gun tactics, and another will teach sword tactics
-If you don't show the proper respect to them, they won't help you
-Friendly/respectful interaction is tied to the controller
-You signal "yes/no" answers by nodding the controller up or down or shaking it from side to side
-You show extra respect by bowing to the masters
-Ubisoft is still coming up with other interactions
-"You can act disrespectively as well: there are no cut scenes in the game - all conversations take place in game, as in Half Life 2. However unlike that game, characters wont keep prattling on if you walk away from them. They will react angrily to your imputent behavior"
-Staying in the master's good graces is key: they give you missions that can be tackled in any order
-You track down the gang leaders and try to turn them to your side. If you don't, they will join Tokai's (the main villian) gang
-You have to prove you are worthy to them by battling them and sparing their lives.
-You will need as many of them with you as possible to face Tokai. Without their help, you'll have a rough time when you finally face him
-You turn gang leaders to your side by besting them in battle and stopping a deadly blow miliseconds before it strikes
-Training sessions are offered by the two masters so you can hone your skills
Multiplayer:
-Split screen multiplayer with traditional deathmatches
-Totally original multiplayer modes Ubisoft is not revealing yet. Wait until E3
-They didn't talk about Nintendo Wi Fi (NDAs). Full details haven't been revealed yet
-Revolution works by placing a small sensor bar either above or below any TV
-You can stand at any angle and not lose any accuracy. You can even take your controller to a friend's house and instantly start playing without syncing up the controller
-"Perhaps most impressive is the fact that although splitscreen reduces the amount of onscreen space you are playing in, you don't have to make smaller movements - you can gesture as wildly as you want, and it won't interfere with the other player's onscreen quadrants
Game Informer's hands on:
-The two triggers on the front of the analog unit activate ducking and jumping. The analog stick controls movement, and the revmote controls aiming. No rails.
-Level consisted of shooting ranges that popped out from behind cover
"Aiming with the controller is as simple as using a laser pointer. You point your hand at a target and hit the trigger on the underside of the controller to fire
-"Unlike other FPS games, which tie the camera and aiming together, Red Steel's camera follows your aim with a slight delay. If, for example, you point to the edge of the screen, the camera will turn to re-center on your view after a second. With the sensitivity of the controller, a standard FPS control would move too much, potentially making the player feel ill
-"Thanks to the improved reaction that the controller offers, the team can create gunfight scenerios that would be extraordinarily diffilcult with a standard controller"
-Most console FPS games limit their enemies to horizontal planes to prevent player frustration, but targets on a verticle plane are just as easy to hit with the Revolution controller
-You can aim at a target as quickly as you can move your hand
-In the demo targets popped up on rooftops and in second story windows, as well as behind cover points on the ground, and all were equally easy to hit
-While you can quickly shoot enemies anywhere on screen, Red Steel never feels in a light-gun game - this is a true FPS, one that feels like it has drawn from the best of both the PC and console shooter worlds
-According to lead game designer Oriola, it takes roughly three seconds to turn completely around around in most console shooters, while it takes about one-quarter second in a PC game. In Red Stel, it takes one second
-AI characters will care for themselves. They will go for cover, attack you while you're reloading. They focus on risk management
-"They won't walk around a table to get to you. They will simply jump over the table"
-"The benchmark for their intelligence and aggressiveness, says Oriola, is the PC title F.E.A.R., which has widely been praised for it's AI"
-Destructable environments. There's a pic of a giant explosion on a carm with gang members being thrown left and right by the blast. Nice effects. The lighting on the explosion and the store signs is pretty good
-GI: we found Red Steel most enjoyable to play while standing up
-Straffing is extremely easy and effortless
-"Aiming felt similar to using a PC mouse, and it's possible to quickly explore every direction in a three-dimensional space with quick gestures"
-"In the finished game, you will be able to push forward with the controller to knock over an object to use for cover, pull it backwards to reload, and twist it to lead behind walls"
-Lob grenades with the controller, or roll them on the ground like a bowling ball
-"gangsta style" shooting is cool
-Total immersion. Feels like you are living the game
-GI: the Revolution is real
-Andy: It could change the very way all gamers are played now and forever
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 04:39:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I don't think there's any chance of this going multiplatform...
From the info:
"Thanks to the improved reaction that the controller offers, the team can create gunfight scenerios that would be extraordinarily diffilcult with a standard controller"
From the sounds of it, the game would have to be completely redone to be ported. Otherwise, it would be nigh-impossible to succeed with just an analogue stick and buttons.
Also, it doesn't feel like a lightgun game at all, from the testimony. Feels like a true FPS, the best from consoles and PCs combined. I love the idea of persuading rival gang leaders to join you by nearly beheading them with a katana and then stopping at the last second, proving that you're the superior fighter.
This sounds better and better all the time...
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 08, 2006, 04:57:10 PM
That wasn't against any rules, I don't think.
Fine then. I had a joygasm.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 05:24:00 PM
More random thoughts on the game:
1. I wonder if you can do split screen co-op, where your friend will fight the Yakuza boss, you'll fight his brother or insanely skilled bodyguard and have to spare them both to gain their aid.
2. It's good to see a FPS which, from the sound of it, will encourage NOT killing enemies and instead using diplomacy by proving your skills and being non-lethal. The fact is, if someone were to shoot a gun out of your hand, you'd probably be willing to listen to them after that.
3. I was right about something: the game will allow you to go hog-wild in the early levels, firing at everything with reckless abandon, which will give the player a feel for the controller and gameplay. In later levels, you'll be rewarded for efficiency and non-lethal combat skill.
I had hoped I'd never find a reason to get excited about the Rev until it was already here. Shame it didn't work out that way...
Post by: Berto2K on April 08, 2006, 06:06:48 PM
Granted Rev would not have the same specs since the pc cards require more space and their own fan with extra power. But that doesn't mean the imbedded feature set couldn't be similar.
Post by: Shecky on April 08, 2006, 06:30:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
+Multiple gun angles (first time ever)
+Dearming enemies simply by aiming
All new/rare/innovative features made possible by the controller. I'm sure I left a couple off.
Minor insignificant nit: not the first time ever... Perfect Dark on the N64 had multiple pistol angles. I'm sure there are probably others.
Post by: Caliban on April 08, 2006, 06:32:05 PM
Cool, yesterday I just thought that it would be cool if the Revmote had a trigger on the underside. If it was mentioned awhile ago don't blame me 'cause I never noticed such trigger from its photos.
Post by: Caliban on April 08, 2006, 06:33:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
+Multiple gun angles (first time ever)
+Dearming enemies simply by aiming
All new/rare/innovative features made possible by the controller. I'm sure I left a couple off.
Minor insignificant nit: not the first time ever... Perfect Dark on the N64 had multiple pistol angles. I'm sure there are probably others.
Multiple gun angles? I don't get it, explain please!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 08, 2006, 06:46:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
"You point your hand at a target and hit the trigger on the underside of the controller to fire"
Cool, yesterday I just thought that it would be cool if the Revmote had a trigger on the underside. If it was mentioned awhile ago don't blame me 'cause I never noticed such trigger from its photos.
Um... http://www.1up.com/do/imageDisplay?id=2308860
That's from the first-ever pictures. How could you not notice that?
Post by: Bubba on April 08, 2006, 06:53:44 PM
Can we say mainstream all the way!
Linky
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 08, 2006, 07:01:12 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 08, 2006, 07:05:35 PM
MEGATON
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 08, 2006, 07:16:05 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 08, 2006, 07:17:54 PM
Post by: Artimus on April 08, 2006, 07:30:10 PM
Post by: Berto2K on April 08, 2006, 07:34:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Multiple gun angles? I don't get it, explain please!
holding is in a horizontal position vs up and down as "normal". those were the two of the first pics released.
Post by: BigJim on April 08, 2006, 07:36:57 PM
Introduction > Accuracy > Strategy > l33t.
Finally something to be excited about.
These screens may be bullshots ((c) Penny-Arcade) but knowing about how this game will work and reading Harrison's interview, Nintendo sounds like they're on the ball. Very cool.
Post by: jasonditz on April 08, 2006, 07:48:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Ubi may be mediocre, but they're at least better than EA.
I suppose. EA's titles tend to vary a lot more in quality though, and sometimes some of their acquired studios do some occasionally impressive work (Maxis and before EA disbanded them, Origin). Ubi, OTOH, tends to produce pretty uniform quality titles (and generally not my kind of games). I've always thought of them more as a poor man's Activision than a rich man's EA.
Then again, Ubi has finally replaced that travesty of a website (which required an obsolete version of IE or Netscape to even access certain parts) with something that doesn't look like it was made by a junior college internet design class reject, so maybe the times are changing.
Post by: Michael8983 on April 08, 2006, 07:53:28 PM
I'd say that's a good sign.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 07:57:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz I suppose. EA's titles tend to vary a lot more in quality though, and sometimes some of their acquired studios do some occasionally impressive work (Maxis and before EA disbanded them, Origin). Ubi, OTOH, tends to produce pretty uniform quality titles (and generally not my kind of games). I've always thought of them more as a poor man's Activision than a rich man's EA.
I liked the first PoP and that's about the extent of what I liked from them. Never finished Splinter Cell because I just found it bland and unappealing.
But this sounds like a completely new effort on their part. This actually sounds ambitious. Somehow, Nintendo or the Revmote has inspired Ubi Paris to be AMBITIOUS, of all things!
If Ubi was inspired to ambition, then I think it's safe to say that the Revmote is already doing its job.
I'm morbidly curious to see what other companies who were ambitious before the advent of the Revmote are going to do with the controller...
Quote
Originally posted by: Michael8983 Isn't this by the developers that made the original Prince of Persia?
I'd say that's a good sign.
Yes, it is. Ubi Paris, in fact, who worked on PoP, Splinter Cell and a few others. From what I understand, Ubi Paris is a collection of developers who worked on a range of products and went straight to Miyamoto and Iwata with the idea for Red Steel.
Post by: jasonditz on April 08, 2006, 08:01:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
knowing about how this game will work and reading Harrison's interview, Nintendo sounds like they're on the ball. Very cool.
One thing I don't get is that NoA is just sitting by and allowing the first screenshots for their new system to be an (admittedly impressive) third party title published in an (admittedly high circulation) magazine that tends to be negative in it's reporting on Nintendo. Shouldn't Nintendo Power be getting some screens at least at the same time?
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 08:10:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz One thing I don't get is that NoA is just sitting by and allowing the first screenshots for their new system to be an (admittedly impressive) third party title published in an (admittedly high circulation) magazine that tends to be negative in it's reporting on Nintendo. Shouldn't Nintendo Power be getting some screens at least at the same time?
That's one of the reasons I'm still afraid it'll turn out to be one gigantic April Fools joke.
I know we've seen SOOO much evidence, but it still sounds way too good to be true.
Post by: wandering on April 08, 2006, 08:16:53 PM
The game sounds awesome. A fps about a subject that's interesting (Yakuza > WWII), with gameplay that actually sounds good (disarming opponents instead of killing them)? I'm frothing with anticipation.
And, I love how this thing has also quietly dispelled a lot of the fears we've been having: about whether Nintendo was lying when they said games would look as good as the competition's, about whether the rev would alienate traditional gamers/insecure young males, etc.
The game has also offcially replaced the underwhelming MP3 screens as my own personal mental image of what Rev games will look like.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, where the F*CK is this "blue ocean" strategy coming into play? Dropping in games which are aimed at the hardcore doesn't exactly pang of "not competing but making the competition irrelevant".
Looks like Nintendo wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bubba
Check it out, this news made the google news front page!
Can we say mainstream all the way!
3 blurry images from a magazine made the front page of Google news? This is incredible. Sony and MS would kill for that kind of interest.
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
Shouldn't Nintendo Power be getting some screens at least at the same time?
I wonder if Nintendo traded brief exclusivety with Game Informer in exchange for a cover story?
Post by: jasonditz on April 08, 2006, 08:19:57 PM
Post by: IceCold on April 08, 2006, 08:21:11 PM
For the physics part, it seems like you would have to interact with the environment a lot; it's an integral part of the gameplay.
QuoteThat's VERY interesting.. I would never have thought that 3rd parties would get to see it so early.
Ubisoft saw and demoed the controller before E3 2005.
QuoteNope, that's Ubisoft Montreal..
Yes, it is. Ubi Paris, in fact, who worked on PoP, Splinter Cell and a few others. From what I understand, Ubi Paris is a collection of developers who worked on a range of products and went straight to Miyamoto and Iwata with the idea for Red Steel.
Post by: zakkiel on April 08, 2006, 08:22:30 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 08:23:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Looks like Nintendo wants to have their cake and eat it too.
I've never been happier to learn of Iwata stuffing his face with cake. Makes for a funny mental image, too.
Quote
I wonder if Nintendo traded brief exclusivety with Game Informer in exchange for a cover story?
That allays my fears a bit. In that case, this is Nintendo furthering their diplomacy to magazines who typically hate them in addition to developers, which means it's not the worst joke in history being done by GI.
It makes sense: GI will sell quite a few more issues because of this story, and that was thanks to Nintendo's willingness to give Ubi the go-ahead to let this information into their hands. In exchange, Nintendo gets a cover story on a popular gaming mag and maybe GI will be more hesitant to say awful things about them. It's effectively giving a money hat to a magazine.
Nintendo must have undergone some internal reorganization recently. This is a whole new system of management we're seeing out of them and frankly, I like it.
Post by: mantidor on April 08, 2006, 08:35:55 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 08, 2006, 08:54:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I dont know what you people are talking about, last year game informer got exclusive info on Twilight Princess also, even an earlier hands on impression of the horse combat, at around exactly this same time. Its not like they have never got anything from Nintendo.
Then they're ungrateful bastards who needlessly rag on Nintendo.
At least this issue will be giving due diligence to the Rev.
Post by: Artimus on April 08, 2006, 09:01:51 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 08, 2006, 09:10:49 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 08, 2006, 09:35:34 PM
Post by: BigJim on April 08, 2006, 10:10:14 PM
Maybe it's a first of exclusives. EGM, GamePro, etc. could follow with cover stories. They'd get a lot of attention hitting each cover.
But GI is an odd choice if this is all there is, yeah.
Post by: TrueNerd on April 08, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
Get it? Like "viral marketing" except with actual diseases? Ha!
And judging by the details Smash Brother posted on the previous page for Red Steel, I'm guessing most will be easy to convert. Seriously, that sounds just fabulous. I got happy pants reading it.
Post by: wandering on April 08, 2006, 10:20:05 PM
Quote
Maybe it's a first of exclusives. EGM, GamePro, etc. could follow with cover stories. They'd get a lot of attention hitting each cover.
Indeed. Hitting major publications and websites with exclsuive first-looks (forcing them to run rev as their top story) would be a good way of building up hype.
That would also gel with what Nintendo said about staggering the release of rev news throughout the year.
Post by: Kairon on April 08, 2006, 10:21:55 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on April 08, 2006, 10:36:48 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 08, 2006, 10:43:57 PM
I kid, I kid.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: BigJim on April 08, 2006, 10:45:40 PM
Quote
Also, where the F*CK is this "blue ocean" strategy coming into play? Dropping in games which are aimed at the hardcore doesn't exactly pang of "not competing but making the competition irrelevant".
Frankly I'd prefer the way they look like they're going. The non-gamers aren't going to be adopting Revolution first. For all of the non-gamer talk, the majority of non-game buyers are still actually gamers. So I think it's important they don't lose sight of their base. This is one of the bones of contention some of us have had... Would all the non-gamer talk translate into non-gamer focus?
The non-games are all well and good, but keep the gamers happy first. Of course, this is only one game. It's not necessarily indicative of an overall strategy. But I like what Harrison had to say about learning from PS2 and making sure they make an impact in their first year.
Who knows, maybe they will generate and force so much buzz around themselves, thus making the competition irrelevant that way. But that's wishful thinking on my part.
But they absolutely can't just sit on their butts until only about 2 months before launch like they did with GameCube and expect a big reaction. Free publicity is there for the taking if they can generate it.
Post by: wandering on April 08, 2006, 10:59:08 PM
E3 will be all about traditional gamers.
Post by: Kairon on April 08, 2006, 11:10:45 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on April 08, 2006, 11:29:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Maybe Reader's Digest will get the exclusive on the Rev Symphony Conducting game?
I kid, I kid.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
That would be brilliant. Great way to appeal to non-gamers (Oprah would be best, though).
Just don't try and sell the cooking game through those. The last person on earth who wants to play a cooking game is a mother. lol
Post by: Mario on April 08, 2006, 11:43:49 PM
They should reveal Brain Training Rev and / or Weight Training Rev: Lose Weight One Day At A Time on Oprah.
Anyway, back on topic... Red Steel sounds sweet. VIDZ PLZ
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 09, 2006, 12:09:43 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 09, 2006, 08:28:08 AM
OK, I'm officially excited.
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 09:53:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteThat's VERY interesting.. I would never have thought that 3rd parties would get to see it so early.
Ubisoft saw and demoed the controller before E3 2005.
Yeah... Wow, does this mean that the controller was already done at E3 2005? If it does... *boggle*
...I'm starting to think that they might actually, truely, realistically launch with a Mario game...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on April 09, 2006, 10:03:51 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 09, 2006, 10:07:15 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 10:07:36 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 10:09:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
It's smart on Nintendo's part to give the cover story to someone other then Nintendo Power. I mean, have you ever been to a GameStop in your life? The entire front side of their front counter is COVERED with GameInformer magazines. Gamers going into a GS can't NOT see this. They're going to want to read about it. Then they're going to want a Revolution.
I hadn't even thought of that.
But yes, this is the case and it'll work wonders, especially with such an insanely eye-catching cover...
Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Frankly I'd prefer the way they look like they're going. The non-gamers aren't going to be adopting Revolution first. For all of the non-gamer talk, the majority of non-game buyers are still actually gamers. So I think it's important they don't lose sight of their base. This is one of the bones of contention some of us have had... Would all the non-gamer talk translate into non-gamer focus?
The non-games are all well and good, but keep the gamers happy first. Of course, this is only one game. It's not necessarily indicative of an overall strategy. But I like what Harrison had to say about learning from PS2 and making sure they make an impact in their first year.
Who knows, maybe they will generate and force so much buzz around themselves, thus making the competition irrelevant that way. But that's wishful thinking on my part.
Oh, I know. I clarified that I mentioned it because it was yet another fear of a few posters who thought that the blue ocean strategy meant bye bye traditional games.
Clearly, this is not the case, and with Nintendo taking the new strategy of holding hands of 3rd parties, I think we'll see plenty of traditional games out of them while Nintendo works on their own new franchises.
Post by: Caliban on April 09, 2006, 10:36:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Um... http://www.1up.com/do/imageDisplay?id=2308860
That's from the first-ever pictures. How could you not notice that?
lol, I never noticed that.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 11:08:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz If PD0 wasn't so forgettable to begin with, this would be a PD0 killer.
Indeed!
I'm just thinking that Nintendo effectively figured out a way to turn 3rd party games into 1st party games. Red Steel could be their Halo 3 killer and it's not even a game developed by Nintendo, yet it's guaranteed exclusivity because of the controller and how integral it is to the gameplay.
The more I think about what Nintendo is doing, the more I think it's abso-f*cking-lutely brilliant. The Rev already held a great deal of promise with the Virtual Console and backwards compatibility alone. Now we see game developers who are typically hesitant to try anything new go completely all out and dive in head first with the new controller.
And with DEPTH to boot! One of the lamentable faults of Splinter Cell was that the story was linear and not terribly imaginative. With Red Steel, they've already said they intend for the story to branch and fork depending on your actions, with who you spare in combat determining what new missions you can undertake. Maybe Yakuza X wants a specific hit done, and Yakuza Y wants the same hit protected, and Yakuza Z wants Yakuza X and Y's heads in a box. I hope they do indeed deliver with these kinds of branching paths because it'll add tons of replay value to the game.
From the sounds of it, Ubi got the idea for the game almost immediately after the Revmote was announced. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I can't help but ponder who else is waiting in the wings with unfathomably wondrous games to show off at E3...
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 11:19:09 AM
Who else saw the controller at that point? And are they on board? And how far are Nintendo's own projects given that the controller was in showable form almost a year ago?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 11:22:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Who else saw the controller at that point? And are they on board? And how far are Nintendo's own projects given that the controller was in showable form almost a year ago?
I think this is the point where we all have to wait for E3 to arrive to get these questions answered.
Or keep our eyes on magazines and see what news they dredge up about the Rev. Reggie mentioned dropping news up until the Rev launches in order to maintain hype level.
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 11:24:19 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on April 09, 2006, 11:44:56 AM
It's hard to explain, but let me start off with a qoute.
"Unlike other FPS games, which tie the camera and aiming together, Red Steel's camera follows your aim with a slight delay."
That's brilliant. Most people would have been pleased with simply transplanting the NRC into a FPS with control similar to a mouse. However, Ubisoft took the time to notice how insanely intuitive and badass a slightly delayed camera would be.
Think about it. Let's say I want to shoot four guys: one up top, one down low, and two to the left and right. If the camera had no delay, shooting everyone would still be easy, but more nauseating. Adding a delay lets you shoot everyone on screen without your viewpoint changing. This will help your accuracy.
That example is what gets me really excited. They are already MASTERING how to use the NRC.
One more thing.....If Ubisoft can come up with this exciting new gameplay, what do you think Nintendo has in store for us at E3?!
Hype train!
Post by: IceCold on April 09, 2006, 12:00:39 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 09, 2006, 12:03:05 PM
Post by: Jensen on April 09, 2006, 01:36:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
The thing that gets me most excited is not the actual use of the controller, but how much thought Ubisoft put into using the controller.
It's hard to explain, but let me start off with a qoute.
"Unlike other FPS games, which tie the camera and aiming together, Red Steel's camera follows your aim with a slight delay."
That's brilliant. Most people would have been pleased with simply transplanting the NRC into a FPS with control similar to a mouse. However, Ubisoft took the time to notice how insanely intuitive and badass a slightly delayed camera would be.
Two reasons it had to be different....
1. The view would vibrate if it was controlled directly by the freehand controller.
2. There is no way to "pick up and reposition" the controller like you can with a mouse or stylus. (unless there is an ignore movement button modifier)
Metroid Prime: Hunter's aiming reticule moved around, too.
Post by: zakkiel on April 09, 2006, 02:10:52 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 02:17:19 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on April 09, 2006, 02:20:40 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at. That's very intuitive, otherwise it would feel a little like a Link to the Past with all the screen changing/turning.
Post by: cubist on April 09, 2006, 03:03:47 PM
The other issues...what's to stop MS and Sony from copying this type of gameplay 6 months down the line...
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 03:10:08 PM
For example, one project Sony has going is using the Eyetoy to detect 3D...with extremely limited results. Another possibility might be through the use of accelerometers like in Microsoft's X-Wand demonstration project.
Either way, you'd need more than a lightgun. Don't worry, I'm sure both Sony and MS are hard at work on it.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 09, 2006, 03:10:27 PM
That, and Nintendo will probably have done it better, earlier anyway.
Post by: IceCold on April 09, 2006, 03:36:57 PM
QuoteAnalogue stick
That, and Nintendo will probably have done it better, earlier anyway.
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 09, 2006, 03:53:55 PM
Also, there was a lawsuit having something to do with dual shock recently, Sony lost a good deal of money, if I'm not mistaken.
Nintendo will not let the Revolution be copied so easily, though.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 09, 2006, 04:19:39 PM
besides, Perrin stated b4 they revealed the controller that they were busy aquiring all the necessary patents on their controller b4 they were going to reveal it publically.
Post by: Michael8983 on April 09, 2006, 04:35:33 PM
But with two potential copy-cats things could get VERY interesting if they both take similar routes around Nintendo's patent. One could beat the other to the punch leaving them to have to start from scratch. It could even lead to a court battle. Nintendo being the only one that can't be touched as it came up with the idea first.
Post by: zakkiel on April 09, 2006, 05:13:57 PM
QuoteThe porblem is that you'll still wind up with situations where the controller is off-center. The extreme example is where you jsut keep nudging to the right until your character has turned around completely and you're holding the controller backwards to shoot at the center of the screen. Obviously this wouldn't happen often, but on a smaller scale I imagine it would happen all the time, and be quite annoying.
Point the controller at something onscreen and it doesn't turn, but re-centers the camera on your target after a slight delay.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 06:30:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold Analogue stick
The analogue stick wasn't nearly as big of a jump as this, though.
Going from having a level of sensitivity in 8 directions to controlling a point in 3D space is a HUGE leap, far greater than going from d-pad to analogue.
Post by: MaryJane on April 09, 2006, 06:31:26 PM
I read the first page, but you'll have to excuse me if someone already said what I am going to say.
What impresses me most about this game just from the original topic starter is the attention to detail about everything. If every developer takes the same level of commitment to making Rev games as Ubisoft (the scary thing is you can bet Nintendo is doing/has done even more with their games) the Rev is the Ultimate gaming system. Nothing before the Rev can compare and everything after it will be a replication.
I cannot wait for this system anymore. Hopefully the increased effort my job is asking of me, will tire me out to the point that now until e3 then e3 till launch passes by like the first 2 years of my life (no memory of it). Can you even begin to imagine other genres with this and greater amounts of depth and (i can't think of the word i want to use here scrutinizing and hardcore come to mind but not what i really want to say) development?
Long live Nintendo King of Videogames. (and my wallet)
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 06:57:29 PM
It gives credence to Nintendo's theory that developers want to try new things, because Ubi apparently leapt on the opportunity.
Post by: trip1eX on April 09, 2006, 07:01:39 PM
I hope they are able to work all the controller gameplay mechanices that they talked about. REalize some stuff could get cut. Tis the nature of game development.
I hope too that the game runs smooth like Metroid Prime smooth. That makes games so much more enjoyable.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 09, 2006, 07:04:48 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 09, 2006, 10:03:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Yeah, the 360's only new franchise I can think of is Kameo, and we all know how well THAT sold... (I don't have exact numbers, but I've heard CoD outsold it AND PD0)
It's pretty funny that their "new" franchise began life as an N64 game.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 09, 2006, 10:16:28 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 09, 2006, 10:20:31 PM
EGM lists development as beginning on the N64 as well.
Post by: Kairon on April 09, 2006, 10:29:47 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Knoxxville on April 09, 2006, 10:42:22 PM
Post by: WesDawg on April 10, 2006, 06:09:10 AM
QuoteUBI's actually been pretty good about strikiing out in new directions. They created Splinter Cell, PoP, and BG&E this gen alone. They've (supposedly) dumped some thatweren't selling well, but they seem willing to take risks a lot of the time, just to try things. They're one of the better publishers out there in my opinion. To tell the truth though, a lot of dev's have stepped out this gen and done interesting things. Capcom (Killer 7) and Sega (Monkey Ball) come to mind real quick for me.
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
We've kinda touched upon what you said, but more along the lines of being impressed that Ubi, a company which normally sticks right with whatever is selling, appears to be striking out and doing something new and different with the Rev controller.
It gives credence to Nintendo's theory that developers want to try new things, because Ubi apparently leapt on the opportunity.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 10, 2006, 06:39:53 AM
QuoteI don't see where you're getting that idea. When you point off screen, your view will rotate towards that direction until you point back at the screen. You don't have to keep turning the remote to turn around in game, nor is your character actually facing the same direction as the remote. It's being used as a pointing device.
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteThe porblem is that you'll still wind up with situations where the controller is off-center. The extreme example is where you jsut keep nudging to the right until your character has turned around completely and you're holding the controller backwards to shoot at the center of the screen. Obviously this wouldn't happen often, but on a smaller scale I imagine it would happen all the time, and be quite annoying.
Point the controller at something onscreen and it doesn't turn, but re-centers the camera on your target after a slight delay.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 10, 2006, 07:08:10 AM
Quote
I hope too that the game runs smooth like Metroid Prime smooth. That makes games so much more enjoyable.
That would really be great, but I do doubt it, if I recall MP runs at 60fps. Even PD0 for Xbox 360 does not run at 60fps but at 30fps (it is noticeable too), and it isn't even what you would call a graphical powerhouse. I'm with yah though that I find games with slightly less detail, but a faster framerate to be much more enjoyable.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 10, 2006, 08:10:21 AM
There are a few things that kind of bug me.
"-Tracing an X in the air, for instance, will unleash a devastating attack
-You signal 'yes/no' answers by nodding the controller up or down or shaking it from side to side"
Those two features sound very much like assigning gestures for actions. Is there really any need for this sort of stuff? It just looks like using the remote just because it's there. It's not emersive to trace an X or nod with the controller. That's the sort of stuff I don't want to see that much because it's just g!mmicky and lame. But this game clearly makes up for it with the aiming which makes perfect sense. I figure some remote usage will be like analog stick gas pedals in that initially everything will use the remote and then over time they'll balance things out as it becomes clear that in some cases a different method would work better.
Regarding the blue ocean strategy and how this is clearly a "gamer's game" this doesn't suprise me. The whole "non-gamers" stuff is clearly Japanese. It's based on the Japanese market and on the DS it has worked very well in Japan and hasn't really done anything in North America. So it's almost expected for a western dev like Ubisoft to make something more traditional. I expect Retro and NST to do the same. What I've always been more concerned about is what Nintendo's Japanese devs are going to make. EAD is pretty much the number one reason to own a Nintendo console so I want to know what their focus is. I don't want Zelda or Mario changed around so that Japanese grandmas can play it. That's the concern. If Miyamoto isn't making "traditional games" then who cares who is? That's everything right there. Everything else is minor in comparison. So I need to see some traditional games from Nintendo made by their Japanese teams to really feel that Nintendo is still commited to longtime gamers.
Post by: jasonditz on April 10, 2006, 08:14:14 AM
Post by: jasonditz on April 10, 2006, 08:18:22 AM
Post by: Artimus on April 10, 2006, 08:19:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Those two features sound very much like assigning gestures for actions. Is there really any need for this sort of stuff? It just looks like using the remote just because it's there. It's not emersive to trace an X or nod with the controller. That's the sort of stuff I don't want to see that much because it's just g!mmicky and lame.
Words cannot describe how frustrating your comments are. How ignorant, how pathetic, how childish.
When a game is built around a certain type of control, in this case realistic motion, then smaller things can be done two ways. You could do it with a button, or a gesture. The reason you go with gestures is because it creates a continuous scheme. Motion becomes the central control scheme instead of buttons, and it keeps it more streamlined. Isn't that blatantly obvious?
And as for the X, YES it's more immersive. Pressing 'A' or some combo isn't HALF as immersive as swining the sword. It's not like Brain Training where you're carefully tracing the shape. It would be a quick swing back and forth like in sword movies when they do the same thing.
Part of me wonders whether you actually feel what you say, or you just want to cause trouble.
Post by: Kairon on April 10, 2006, 08:25:02 AM
The nodding though... I'll need to see how that works out, lol.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on April 10, 2006, 08:33:21 AM
A sword is more immersive if the sword action reflects how you swing. It's not immersive if you're doing a "dial a combo" by tracing shapes. In this case I'm not exactly suggesting a button push since that wouldn't really fit if every other time you use the sword is with motion control. I just don't like the idea of tracing shapes to indicate moves.
It really depends how it's done I guess. If the special attack goes along with your moves then it's cool. If there's a delay where I trace the shape and then the guy in the game just automatically does the move then it's kind of lame.
Post by: bustin98 on April 10, 2006, 08:34:39 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 10, 2006, 08:36:29 AM
It can go well, or not well, according to how Ubisoft executes it. Until then we're complaining about hypotheticals.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on April 10, 2006, 08:59:52 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on April 10, 2006, 09:07:24 AM
Sure tilting the controller to nod your head or drawing an X in the air for a special move may break from the realism of the game but the alternative is to use the traditional face buttons which, though much more familiar, would be just as unrealistic and would be much more cumbersome.
Would you rather simply tilt the controller to respond to a question or use the d-pad and A button to respond in classic RPG style? The former is simply faster and more in tune with the rest of the game. I suppose special moves could be left out of the game entirely for the sake of realism but I'd glad that's not the case. I'm looking forward to slashing various shapes in the air to unleash massive attacks. It will add depth and, let's face it, make the game much cooler.
Certain uses of the Revmote may seem sparkling innovationy just because we'e not familair with them.
After playing games with buttons and sticks all these years, utilizing hand motions as an alternative will be strange at first but someday it could be the standard. People may look back one day and wonder how we ever put up with controllers with a dozen buttons.
Post by: Ceric on April 10, 2006, 09:26:52 AM
Graphic = not worried about.
Gameplay = Looks cool.
Did anyone else noticed the the Ubisoft employee stated that the magazine was slated to hit next week and what this implies?
If it implies what I think it does then next week we will be getting a lot of new information. It's probablly the end of an NDA precluding developers from totally talking about there games except for the online component. Its a very exciting implication.
Now don't get me wrong. I personally think that Nintendo themselves will wait until E3 to shows us any real information about the first party games and let the 3rd party games have a field day for the next month. Nintendo's name is built up such that we all notice they can easily overshadow 3rd party games. So the extra starting time could be just what the doctor orders.
This is an intersting start of things.
(A side note I don't think Nintendo has ever forced developers to play favorites to NP. I mean it makes sense for them to get 1st party because there the same company.)
Post by: Michael8983 on April 10, 2006, 09:33:46 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 10, 2006, 10:10:50 AM
Word from credible sources say April 20th is when 3rd party NDAs end...
Post by: zakkiel on April 10, 2006, 10:32:08 AM
QuoteMy belief is that you are executing the combo as you trace the shape, and stopping the trace stops the combo. I think there would be a lot of visceral thrill to smoothly moving that remote and watching your character slice threw enemies like hot butter. Gives a feeling of power no button-press could match.
It really depends how it's done I guess. If the special attack goes along with your moves then it's cool. If there's a delay where I trace the shape and then the guy in the game just automatically does the move then it's kind of lame.
Post by: zakkiel on April 10, 2006, 10:35:00 AM
QuoteAccording to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc.
I don't see where you're getting that idea. When you point off screen, your view will rotate towards that direction until you point back at the screen. You don't have to keep turning the remote to turn around in game, nor is your character actually facing the same direction as the remote. It's being used as a pointing device.
Post by: Requiem on April 10, 2006, 10:51:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
This game is sounding really cool. Smash Brother mentioned a whole bunch of bullet pointed details and the game just sounds amazing. WAY better than anything I would usually expect from Ubisoft.
There are a few things that kind of bug me.
"-Tracing an X in the air, for instance, will unleash a devastating attack
-You signal 'yes/no' answers by nodding the controller up or down or shaking it from side to side"
Those two features sound very much like assigning gestures for actions. Is there really any need for this sort of stuff? It just looks like using the remote just because it's there. It's not emersive to trace an X or nod with the controller. That's the sort of stuff I don't want to see that much because it's just g!mmicky and lame. But this game clearly makes up for it with the aiming which makes perfect sense. I figure some remote usage will be like analog stick gas pedals in that initially everything will use the remote and then over time they'll balance things out as it becomes clear that in some cases a different method would work better.
I agree mostly with what you said, but your argument lacks foundation.
Your annoyed by the fact that gestures may replace buttons. That is a good reason to bitch. Honestly, that's basically all you ever talk about when the NRC is brought up...but I digress.
You must first notice that the "X" comment was most likely a simple example.
Now, I am almost positive you will not make gestures in the traditional sense of the word. Instead, as you are swinging from top left to bottom right with your NRC, you can make the reciprical motion to start a devastating flurry that may need you to continue attacking. The comment (paraphrased) "you can stop the combo when ever you like to defend by simply stopping your motion" backs up this belief.
I truly believe that these combos only need special activation swings because they involve an insane amount of sword skill and aerobatics that most likely noone who plays videogames posseses.
Post by: Michael8983 on April 10, 2006, 10:57:27 AM
I think they meant the camera will ATTEMPT to center the cursor. I don't think it will truly re-center untill the remote returns to its neutral position. So if you pointed the cursor just slightly off-center to the right, the character would slowly turn in that direction until you position the cursor at the center of the screen. Basically just like how it would play with an analog stick.
Post by: MaryJane on April 10, 2006, 11:53:11 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 10, 2006, 11:59:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
According to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc.
Ah. Now I see where you got it. Remember that the controller is being used as a pointing device. It doesn't care about it's orientation except to compute where it's pointing on the screen. After the camera pans, if you haven't moved away, you'll still be pointing to the same spot on the screen, not necessarily at the same target in the virtual environment. It isn't clear whether the camera will continue to pan or wait again (my guess is it will keep panning so you can circle strafe), but if you move the controller, you'll find that pointing it at the center of the screen will require the exact same positioning as before.
Post by: Kairon on April 10, 2006, 12:00:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteAccording to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc.
I don't see where you're getting that idea. When you point off screen, your view will rotate towards that direction until you point back at the screen. You don't have to keep turning the remote to turn around in game, nor is your character actually facing the same direction as the remote. It's being used as a pointing device.
No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.
Thus, I think the cursor will get "dragged" along with the screen as it re-centers. But you can dynamically re-aim since it's such an intuitive interface, and the delay is there so that the screen will only really re-center when you're trying to take your time to aim at something intensely. Understand that if there are four enemies on the screen, you can shoot all four without the camera moving. I'm thinking that the camera will only move for deliberate turns or within natural breaks in the action.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on April 10, 2006, 12:28:07 PM
QuoteYou're mistaken, but I'm not sure how to explain clearly. If you have the screen move with the remote - even with a delay - this throws off the the zero setting for the cursor. If you keep doing this eventually it will have zero set to where the controller is pointing ina completely different direction. Imagine that the screen was directly tied to the remote; in order to turn around, you would have to turn the remote backwards. Using a combination of a screen tied directly to the remote and one which rotates when you point off-screen will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it.
No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.
QuoteThat would be edge-sensitivity taken to its logical extreme. It might be the best solution.
I think they meant the camera will ATTEMPT to center the cursor. I don't think it will truly re-center untill the remote returns to its neutral position. So if you pointed the cursor just slightly off-center to the right, the character would slowly turn in that direction until you position the cursor at the center of the screen. Basically just like how it would play with an analog stick.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 10, 2006, 12:41:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteYou're mistaken, but I'm not sure how to explain clearly. If you have the screen move with the remote - even with a delay - this throws off the the zero setting for the cursor. If you keep doing this eventually it will have zero set to where the controller is pointing ina completely different direction. Imagine that the screen was directly tied to the remote; in order to turn around, you would have to turn the remote backwards. Using a combination of a screen tied directly to the remote and one which rotates when you point off-screen will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it.
No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.
You're assuming there's a zero point to be reset when there isn't one.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 10, 2006, 12:47:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Words cannot describe how frustrating your comments are. How ignorant, how pathetic, how childish.
Hey, come on! We got Ian to say something POSITIVE! As far as I'm concerned, the day is won.
As for the question, if you move the Revmote up and down and the screen moves with it while you're talking to someone, then that is indeed better for immersive purposes. It sounds like your character might very well be a cipher, but I'm willing to forgive it if the game is done in such a way that I TRULY feel as though I am the character in the game.
So if I use an actual gesture to nod and shake my head, then sure, I'm cool with that, if the camera moves when I do it then it simulates exactly what I'm going to do. I like the idea of having no cutscenes as it will further enhance the immersion potential of the game.
As for special moves, I think the idea was that the game would be controlled primarily with motion and as such would attempt to perform every action possible with the Revmote. I can guarantee that controlling a point in 3D space will be more immersive than moving a stick around. I loved lightgun games because when you were actually aiming the gun, the game did a far better job of pulling you into it then moving a cursor around with a controller.
Thus, I could say that, when I want to unleash a devastating attack, I can channel my character's energy with a gesture of my blade, something which isn't terribly far-fetched in the world of samurai swordplay, and it'll keep me more in the game than pressing a button or, god knows, selecting from a list of attacks I wish to perform.
I think it'll aid in immersion so I don't think it'll feel unnatural.
As for Ubi, Splinter Cell was a take on MGS, BG&E was a Zelda-like adventure. The only game from them which was truly original was PoP, which stayed true to the original PoP games by being an acrobatics based adventure which won plenty of awards because nothing like it has been seen this generation.
This is a completely new franchise and something which has yet to be done in the world of gaming, hence why I was surprised when I heard it from Ubi.
Post by: TrueNerd on April 10, 2006, 01:21:25 PM
As for the yes/no, nodding/shaking thing, meh. Is that really that much better or worse then hitting "A" for yes or "B" for no? It could be better if a menu asking you the question doesn't come up at all and the NPC asking the question demands you to nod or shake your head until you do.
EDIT: Bill mentioned that April 20th is the day 3rd party NDA's expire and I thought I would add that the 20th is the exact day that Game Informer Unlimited, the extra content magazine subscribers can see on their website, goes live. Obviously, Red Steel content will be the big thing this month. Could just be a coincidence though.
Post by: IceCold on April 10, 2006, 01:23:52 PM
QuoteI wholeheartedly agree.. Mario and Metroid are enough to overshadow anything and everything, so letting third parties reveal their games in a staggered fashion is brilliant. It's good advertising, and it may even make them sell better come Revolution time. And, of course, we expect that when Nintendo shows their games, they will be even better than the 3rd party offerings, and we will continue to be amazed.
Originally posted by: Ceric
Now don't get me wrong. I personally think that Nintendo themselves will wait until E3 to shows us any real information about the first party games and let the 3rd party games have a field day for the next month. Nintendo's name is built up such that we all notice they can easily overshadow 3rd party games. So the extra starting time could be just what the doctor orders.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 10, 2006, 01:25:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Random Thought: This game better have the best melee attack ever in an FPS. I want it to feel like like I'm really smackin' a dude in the head with the butt of my gun.
As for the yes/no, nodding/shaking thing, meh. Is that really that much better or worse then hitting "A" for yes or "B" for no? It could be better if a menu asking you the question doesn't come up at all and the NPC asking the question demands you to nod or shake your head until you do.
Yeah, I was always saying how insanely fun the melee attack in Halo would be with the Revmote.
Maybe the character will be mute in this game, making him even more of a cipher, hence why all he can do is nod or shake his head.
Post by: MaryJane on April 10, 2006, 01:37:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Random Thought: This game better have the best melee attack ever in an FPS. I want it to feel like like I'm really smackin' a dude in the head with the butt of my gun.
As for the yes/no, nodding/shaking thing, meh. Is that really that much better or worse then hitting "A" for yes or "B" for no? It could be better if a menu asking you the question doesn't come up at all and the NPC asking the question demands you to nod or shake your head until you do.
EDIT: Bill mentioned that April 20th is the day 3rd party NDA's expire and I thought I would add that the 20th is the exact day that Game Informer Unlimited, the extra content magazine subscribers can see on their website, goes live. Obviously, Red Steel content will be the big thing this month. Could just be a coincidence though.
point 1: I'm really hoping that the revmote uses some sort of technology that will somehow offer resistance when using it to hit things, I don't even know if its possible, but it'd be great.
point 2: I just thought, the nodded and shaking will make no difference if text is the only option, or not able to be turned off in favor of voice only, cuz then they might as well have button presses.
point 3: April 20th is always one of the best days of the year
Post by: Michael8983 on April 10, 2006, 01:49:06 PM
Even if that was possible I don't see how it could be feasible without making the Revmote WAY too expensive.
I do suspect it will come with an enhanced rumble feature which will be the next best thing.
Post by: jasonditz on April 10, 2006, 02:25:08 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 10, 2006, 02:26:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteYou're mistaken, but I'm not sure how to explain clearly. If you have the screen move with the remote - even with a delay - this throws off the the zero setting for the cursor. If you keep doing this eventually it will have zero set to where the controller is pointing ina completely different direction. Imagine that the screen was directly tied to the remote; in order to turn around, you would have to turn the remote backwards. Using a combination of a screen tied directly to the remote and one which rotates when you point off-screen will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it.
No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.
You're assuming there's a zero point to be reset when there isn't one.
Quoted for truth.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 10, 2006, 02:32:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Michael8983
Even if that was possible I don't see how it could be feasible without making the Revmote WAY too expensive.
I do suspect it will come with an enhanced rumble feature which will be the next best thing.
It's an interesting idea.
What if the vibration unit (which does exist in the controller) gave force feedback in a specific direction rather than simply vibrating?
If your sword clashes with that of your enemy, the controller could vibrate in the direction opposite of where your sword hit, simulating the feel of the handle pushing into your palm on an impact. When the gun fires, you could have actual recoil instead of just vibration.
It might very well be doable, as the controller was noted as being the most expensive part of the whole system, but we'll have to wait and see in that regard.
Personally, I think it would make games like this just that much better.
Post by: IceCold on April 10, 2006, 03:23:32 PM
© TY
- PGC Moderator
Post by: zakkiel on April 10, 2006, 04:42:55 PM
QuoteNot in the sense of some magical prefered orientation, no. But if you point straight at the screen, the cursor on the screen should be centered. The two have to correlate to make the control system work. You can call pointing straight at the screen the controller zero, and having the cursor in the middle of the screen game zero, if you want. When the two don't match, you have issues. And when the screen, rather than the cursor, moves with the remote, the two won't match.
You're assuming there's a zero point to be reset when there isn't one.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 10, 2006, 05:01:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Heh - I love Alexa
Holy crap.
Post by: jasonditz on April 10, 2006, 05:09:19 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 10, 2006, 05:25:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
What I'm picturing is if you aim to the left, the cursor moves immediately, and if you leave it pointing to the left for a set amount of time (which might be different depending on how far left of center you're pointing), it starts to drift your view in that direction. If you're trying to aim at a particular stationary target that's on the left, you will have to drift the controller progressively to the right as the screen drifts to keep the controller on the target. Eventually, the target will be in the center, and so will the cursor.
This is what I envisioned myself.
If the Revmote is pointed somewhere ON screen, the screen wouldn't move. If it's pointed off screen, the screen will spin until you move the Revmote back onto the screen.
Remember that he said it would take 1 second to spin completely around. I'm assuming there is a setting which you can use to adjust the sensitivity at which the screen moves, but 1 second for a full 360° is pretty damn fast.
I doubt there's a lag time when you touch the edge of the screen or go past it. If someone is shooting you from the left and you have to wait for the screen to move to the left even after you aim the Rev controller off the screen to the left, then a huge part of the game dynamic will be ruined.
There's a cursor on the screen so you can see where you're shooting at all times (though, I would like an expert mode to disable it) and I'd bet that this is what will serve as your means of moving the camera.
In any case, moving the camera sounds very similar to moving a gun around, which is indeed the purpose of the game. I'm sure they'll have it figured out before they ship the game.
Post by: MaryJane on April 10, 2006, 06:37:02 PM
the pointing shifting centering, one of those things we gotta wait and see... or email game informer about it.
Post by: zakkiel on April 10, 2006, 07:47:16 PM
QuoteUnfortunately, it isn't physically possible, if by feedback you mean having your remote rebound in your hand when your character's sword hits walls and that sort of thing. Good rumble should be enough, though.
the feedback would be awesome and worth any drawback (except battery life) imo. by drawback i mean $$$.
QuoteThat's my belief also.
If the Revmote is pointed somewhere ON screen, the screen wouldn't move. If it's pointed off screen, the screen will spin until you move the Revmote back onto the screen.
Post by: wandering on April 10, 2006, 10:21:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JasonDitz
What I'm picturing is if you aim to the left, the cursor moves immediately, and if you leave it pointing to the left for a set amount of time (which might be different depending on how far left of center you're pointing), it starts to drift your view in that direction. If you're trying to aim at a particular stationary target that's on the left, you will have to drift the controller progressively to the right as the screen drifts to keep the controller on the target. Eventually, the target will be in the center, and so will the cursor.
Interesting idea, although I'm not sure I would enjoy constantly moving the revmote just to stay on-target.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Word from credible sources say April 20th is when 3rd party NDAs end...
Good news...but, is Nintendo setting themselves up for not being featured heavily in the mainstream media? 'nmotion-control games revealed for first time at E3' could make headlines. 'Pictures of 3rd party rev games now hitting magazines' won't. 'Motion control games, already revealed earlier, but now playable' might not.
Quote
Originally posted by: IanSane
Those two features sound very much like assigning gestures for actions. Is there really any need for this sort of stuff? It just looks like using the remote just because it's there. It's not emersive to trace an X or nod with the controller. That's the sort of stuff I don't want to see that much because it's just g!mmicky and lame.
I don't agree. What's wrong with using the revmote to nod, when the revmote will already control where your character looks anyway? Isn't that more immersive than 'push a for yes, b for no', especially when a and b serve other functions in the game? As for the 'draw x for special move'... ever used the mouse gestures in Opera? They work really well.
Post by: Artimus on April 10, 2006, 10:23:51 PM
And the GI article says these shots are from a shooting gallery, which explains the characters being the same.
Post by: wandering on April 10, 2006, 10:34:59 PM
Quote
And the GI article says these shots are from a shooting gallery, which explains the characters being the same.
My impression was the shooting gallery they played was actually different from the shots used in the magazine, though I could be wrong.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 11, 2006, 05:51:11 AM
Quote
My impression was the shooting gallery they played was actually different from the shots used in the magazine, though I could be wrong.
Yeah, the GI description of the shooting range doesn't sound like what's in the pictures.
Quote
You can call pointing straight at the screen the controller zero, and having the cursor in the middle of the screen game zero, if you want.
You're assuming there's a zero point to be reset when there isn't one. Pointing at the center of the screen is pointing at the center of the screen. The screen and controller will have a 1:1 relationship. Even after the game recenters the view, it will still know where the center of the screen is relative to the controller. The cursor represents where you're pointing. You move the cursor by pointing at things, not by moving the controller in the direction you want it to go, so it won't matter if it gets momentarily off center while you're locked on to a target or something.
Edit: After reading some of the replies on Slashdot, I feel like I should point out that I don't believe the controller is simply a pointing device, but that it's being treated as one for the shooting portion of this game.
Edit 2: corrected mistype.
Post by: MaryJane on April 11, 2006, 06:24:32 AM
as for the whole feedback thing, again, i really didn't think it was possible to do what i described, but what smash brother described in an earlier post would be the best way to go. and hopefully is what they do.
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 07:57:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteUnfortunately, it isn't physically possible, if by feedback you mean having your remote rebound in your hand when your character's sword hits walls and that sort of thing. Good rumble should be enough, though..
the feedback would be awesome and worth any drawback (except battery life) imo. by drawback i mean $$$.
It is physically possible so long as you conserve momentum. The obvious, albeit impractical solution would be to put some very small but powerful jet engines in various places on the controller so that it can exert a varying force in a given direction.
I'm thinking an improvement on the rumble might be unbalancing the controller in your hand. Here's a quick sample. Pick up a 2-liter bottle of pop that's about 1/2 to 2/3 full. Swing it around a little bit. Notice that you can feel some (albeit little) force when the liquid sloshes around? You could do a more controlled version of that inside the controller and probably simulate to some extent a force in a given direction. It would probably be a real power leech, and unfortunately, it's probably not going to be possible to "stop" your hand during a sword strike unless you make the controller ponderously heavy.
Post by: Artimus on April 11, 2006, 08:25:16 AM
Post by: zakkiel on April 11, 2006, 08:28:57 AM
QuoteTrue, but irrelevant. Whatever elese the remote may have, a jet propulsion system is wildly unlikely. There are other ways around it - putting a large electric charge on the controller and having gaint chargeable plates all around the room - but they are even more impractical.
he obvious, albeit impractical solution would be to put some very small but powerful jet engines in various places on the controller so that it can exert a varying force in a given direction.
QuoteThe short answer is no. The force in a given direction would be shortly followed by a force in the opposite direction. The more powerful the initial force, the sooner the opposite force occurs. Even if you set up a massively heavy controller, enough so you could feel a good initial fore and still take several seconds for the opposite force to happen, you would wind up with random opposing forces popping up in the middle of battle, and so as a feedback system the whole thing would be useless.
Pick up a 2-liter bottle of pop that's about 1/2 to 2/3 full. Swing it around a little bit. Notice that you can feel some (albeit little) force when the liquid sloshes around? You could do a more controlled version of that inside the controller and probably simulate to some extent a force in a given direction.
Post by: Knoxxville on April 11, 2006, 10:12:49 AM
..what say you?
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 11:03:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
I'm thinking an improvement on the rumble might be unbalancing the controller in your hand. Here's a quick sample. Pick up a 2-liter bottle of pop that's about 1/2 to 2/3 full. Swing it around a little bit. Notice that you can feel some (albeit little) force when the liquid sloshes around? You could do a more controlled version of that inside the controller and probably simulate to some extent a force in a given direction. It would probably be a real power leech, and unfortunately, it's probably not going to be possible to "stop" your hand during a sword strike unless you make the controller ponderously heavy.
It would definitely be impossible to force the player's hand to a full stop, but ideally, the controller would simply "bump" in the direction the force would be coming from in game and the player would learn to move accordingly by feeling these bumps to know when they've struck an unyielding object.
It's definitely possible. A rumble unit is just a rapid oscillation of a small weight inside the controller. Imagine the same weight, a perfect sphere, sitting in the middle of a small spherical plastic chamber with springs on all sides touching the sphere and going to the wall of the chamber. On command, one of the springs compresses while the spring on the other side of the weight uncoils, the result would be that the weight was rapidly shifted from center to one of the edges, resulting in a singular direction force feedback, before quickly resetting to zero (with all springs at medium point). This might actually result in pushing the controller in the opposite direction that the weight moves, but this would still work to the ends which it would be used for.
That's just a rough idea and I'm sure there are flaws with it, but something of the sort would definitely be possible. I've seen devices which are designed to jerk in a direction on command (devices with far less battery oomph than the Revmote will have). I don't see why the controller wouldn't be able to do so and still offer 4-8 hours of play time.
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 11:30:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkielQuoteTrue, but irrelevant. Whatever elese the remote may have, a jet propulsion system is wildly unlikely. There are other ways around it - putting a large electric charge on the controller and having gaint chargeable plates all around the room - but they are even more impractical.
he obvious, albeit impractical solution would be to put some very small but powerful jet engines in various places on the controller so that it can exert a varying force in a given direction.
I'm not saying it's practical, just that it's physically possible. Maybe given another 50-60 years of technology something like that might be feasible in a consumer electronic. The even more obvious solution of course is attaching the revmote to a big heavy base with a robotic arm that resists you. But then you lose the portability.
There's another big problem with force feedback though, and that's injuries. A wide variety of people are going to be playing this game with a wide variety of levels of physical strength. I'm a grown man of much larger than average height/weight, so if I put my hip into a strong swing, the force needed to stop it would be significant. If you used that same level of force and someone's 6 year old nephew is swinging the controller, there's a decent chance you're going to break his wrist.
While we're on the subject of bad solutions to this problem... how about we attach electrodes to the arm of the player and when we want to stop his swing, we just quickly shock him enough to paralyze his arm for a second.
Post by: MaryJane on April 11, 2006, 12:06:29 PM
As for the strength thing and paralyzing people, if the controller could actually do that, certainly it'd also be able to measure a person strength and react accordingly.
Post by: Zach on April 11, 2006, 12:21:50 PM
All of that pretty much makes the ball system into a glorified rumble pack.
It all comes down to the third law of motion, Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
For force feedback, the controller would have to push on something outside of itself, it could do this using powerful fans (or jet engines as someone suggested) to push on the air around you.
Post by: jasonditz on April 11, 2006, 12:25:16 PM
Post by: Requiem on April 11, 2006, 12:44:13 PM
If there's a cursor, I will be severely dissapointed (unless I can turn it off).
Post by: MaryJane on April 11, 2006, 12:47:54 PM
Post by: Artimus on April 11, 2006, 12:55:38 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 12:57:01 PM
Truth be told, I think it's doable but I think that my idea is the wrong way of doing it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 12:59:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
bah i didnt even see that quote, that will be rather disappointing if there's a pointer, hopefully they'll have an option to turn it off, cuz although i'd stil buy this game, i'd be severely disappointed.
I'd bet an organ or two that there will be an option to turn it off.
Post by: MaryJane on April 11, 2006, 12:59:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
The crosshair is in the screenshots...
lmao so it is, so it is.
i need to stop smo... eh, maybe not.
still a good idea SB, you should work for Nintendo... i'd vote for you... wait a minute.
Post by: Zach on April 11, 2006, 01:13:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I think that, if the initial motion of the ball was quick, you'd have a decent amount of force, but the act of returning it to "home" position would be much more gradual and thus wouldn't induce a force on the Revmote.
Truth be told, I think it's doable but I think that my idea is the wrong way of doing it.
That still would not work, My last post was kinda confusing so I am going to try again.
1) The spring activates, pushing the ball to the right, and controller as a whole to the left.
2) The ball reaches the right side of the controller and pushes the controller to the right
With this method or a similar one, you cannot have the controller push in one direction, without it quickly pushing in the other direction right after the initial push
Think about it like this, your in a wagon, and you want to move forward, the best way to do this is to stick your feet on the ground and push backwards on the ground, thus pushing the wagon forward.
now say you dont want to get out so you try to jerk your body forward, you just end up moving the wagon back and forth because you are pushing backwards on the wagon, rather than the ground to get that jerk. Thus the wagon moves backward, then forward when the momentum of your body kicks in.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 02:54:45 PM
Like I said, the physics would allow for it, especially if, after the weight moves, it hits a cushion of some kind which would decelerate it to prevent it from jerking.
Then again, as long as the player felt the initial oomph of the controller against their palm, would it matter if it moved a little after that?
Post by: Requiem on April 11, 2006, 03:34:02 PM
Post by: Jensen on April 11, 2006, 04:25:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
bah i didnt even see that quote, that will be rather disappointing if there's a pointer, hopefully they'll have an option to turn it off, cuz although i'd stil buy this game, i'd be severely disappointed.
Are you going to make your own gun sights for your controller?
Post by: zakkiel on April 11, 2006, 05:08:45 PM
QuoteIf you really wanted the force not to be very noticeable on the return, you would have to make the ball weigh a ridiculous amount (so that you could start with a small initial acceleration and still get a recoil effect, leaving plenty of time to gradually slow down the ball) or allow the ball to travel a ridiculous distance (again, so you would have time for a gradual slow-down). Remember as well that you have to not only accelerate backwards enough to stop the ball, you then have to rpovide the force to return it to the starting position. Thus your analogy of the chair is flawed - external forces (friction) bring it to rest for you. Try pushing your chair back with a lot of force, and then hooking your feet under the desk and using your legs to slow you down again before it can get away from your desk and see how much of a difference in force you can get between pushing and pulling. Should illustrate the difficulties involved.
I think that, if the initial motion of the ball was quick, you'd have a decent amount of force, but the act of returning it to "home" position would be much more gradual and thus wouldn't induce a force on the Revmote.
And of course if the need for another recoil arose while the system was reseting, it would be unable to respond. And whatever else you can fudge with huge weights in long tubes, you're gonna have to have a significant lag before the system resets if you want to only really notice the recoil in one direction.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 05:40:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
And of course if the need for another recoil arose while the system was reseting, it would be unable to respond. And whatever else you can fudge with huge weights in long tubes, you're gonna have to have a significant lag before the system resets if you want to only really notice the recoil in one direction.
This is actually what I was thinking would pose the most problem.
In a hypothetical sword fight, the required time for the weight to reset would likely not elapse before the next hit would happen.
Rumble is nice, but directable rumble would be far more impressive.
Clearly, the concept holds merit, but I can't find nor think of a design which would work to provide the necessary jolt without having the downsides that have been mentioned.
Post by: Michael8983 on April 11, 2006, 05:56:18 PM
Exactly. The cross-hair is necessary. The rev-mote will allow a greater degree of accuracy than an analog stick or even mouse would allow but you still need a visible marker to know where you're aiming. The innovation is in how accurately you can move the cross-hair. It does not make it obsolete.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 06:03:11 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on April 11, 2006, 06:11:25 PM
Textures aren't really up to par with some Xbox 1 games, but the lighting and polygon models definately look better than PDZ.
i'll link just one
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 06:44:59 PM
I guess that rules out a large overworld, which would likely make sense, given its memory footprint.
I badly want to see a video of this game in action, though, specifically with the swordplay. The gun bit sounds like it'll be fun and all, but the sword fighting will truly make or break this game as it will be the activity which is the least possible to perform on any other console.
Post by: Artimus on April 11, 2006, 06:45:15 PM
And the first link doesn't work...
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 11, 2006, 06:57:19 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 07:03:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Whoa! I didn't know there were more shots we hadn't seen! It does not look as good as 360 or PS3 will, but it looks fine.
I'd hesitate to go by that picture.
You can clearly see artifacts all over it from a poor scan job. I'll wait until I see the game in motion before I draw any conclusions.
Post by: Kairon on April 11, 2006, 07:08:51 PM
It isn't a matter of memory, it'sa matter of genre that Red Steel uses a hub system.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on April 11, 2006, 07:16:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Whoa! I didn't know there were more shots we hadn't seen! It does not look as good as 360 or PS3 will, but it looks fine.
I'd hesitate to go by that picture.
You can clearly see artifacts all over it from a poor scan job. I'll wait until I see the game in motion before I draw any conclusions.
We KNOW it won't look as good. How can you still be in denial?
Post by: IceCold on April 11, 2006, 07:45:53 PM
QuoteYou could just register on that site.. it's a 2 minute process, if that.
Originally posted by: Artimus
And the first link doesn't work...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 11, 2006, 07:59:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Whoa! I didn't know there were more shots we hadn't seen! It does not look as good as 360 or PS3 will, but it looks fine.
I'd hesitate to go by that picture.
You can clearly see artifacts all over it from a poor scan job. I'll wait until I see the game in motion before I draw any conclusions.
We KNOW it won't look as good. How can you still be in denial?
I don't know how it will look, in fact I don't know how Rev will actually compare to PS3 or X360 on a standard TV yet. None of us know, and I think it would be ridiculous to come to that conclusion without seeing any games in motion and a couple shots that may or may not be doctored.
Post by: Mario on April 11, 2006, 08:10:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Whoa! I didn't know there were more shots we hadn't seen! It does not look as good as 360 or PS3 will, but it looks fine.
I'd hesitate to go by that picture.
You can clearly see artifacts all over it from a poor scan job. I'll wait until I see the game in motion before I draw any conclusions.
We KNOW it won't look as good. How can you still be in denial?
Those "new" scans honestly look better than most Xbox 360 screenshots i've seen. Not that I really care, or not that that's representative of the "real powah", you can argue that what you see in screens and what's on the TV is a different matter, but this is very impressive considering what the price difference is going to be, not to mention you get Revolutionary controls as well.
The game also looks very polished already, which is awesome considering they have 5 or so months to keep adding even more polish.
Nintendo have the opponents graphics matched, from what i'm seeing right now, and we don't have much else to go by as of yet.
Post by: Fro on April 11, 2006, 08:36:40 PM
Just because a game has a hub to select missions doesn't there won't be some big outdoor levels.
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2006, 08:45:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
We KNOW it won't look as good. How can you still be in denial?
Because I'm the KING of Da Nile! WOOTWOOT!
But seriously, I mean because that scan is CRAPTACULAR. I have no doubt that it won't be as good as the other console offerings. I'm just saying that that scan SUCKS. You can see artifacts all over the place. Wait for someone with a better scanner, I'd say, or buy the magazine yourself (like I will) before making a real judgment call.
Quote
Originally posted by: Fro
Just because a game has a hub to select missions doesn't there won't be some big outdoor levels.
That's true. I'm sure it'll be fine either way.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 11, 2006, 08:54:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteYou could just register on that site.. it's a 2 minute process, if that.
Originally posted by: Artimus
And the first link doesn't work...
You tricked me into registering
there were no pictures, just links that led to nothing, and I had to copy/paste them myself!!
Post by: wandering on April 11, 2006, 09:01:58 PM
edit: I really, really like the way this game looks. Nice environments, nice character models, and just, on the whole, it feels like it's offering a world that will be easy to get lost in.
edit 2: "When playing Red Steel, you essentially aim the controller like it was a real gun. Your in-game hand, mimics your movements, and the camera adjusts to keep your target near the center of the screen." Huh....it doesn't sount like you just go to the edge of the screen to move the camera. I'm still not quite clear on how it works, actually.
Post by: IceCold on April 11, 2006, 09:10:47 PM
QuoteWhat the hell? I registered, then I closed the window and opened the link up again. Then I typed in my registration info, and all the pictures were there in a post..
You tricked me into registering there were no pictures, just links that led to nothing, and I had to copy/paste them myself!!
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 11, 2006, 09:22:55 PM
Post by: Artimus on April 11, 2006, 11:23:06 PM
How am I a stick in the mud? Because I don't think the Rev is capable of 360 and PS3 quality graphics? Because I'm happy with actual facts and not delusions?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 11, 2006, 11:31:35 PM
Post by: TrueNerd on April 11, 2006, 11:31:56 PM
Post by: pudu on April 11, 2006, 11:43:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I registered and the game looks great!
How am I a stick in the mud? Because I don't think the Rev is capable of 360 and PS3 quality graphics? Because I'm happy with actual facts and not delusions?
I have to agree with you. The game does look good and has some pretty cool particle fx going on there but it doesn't really strike me as "next gen" or "bleeding edge" graphics. It looks more to me like a souped up Gamecube in the graphics department and I really doubt it will even come close to PS3 or 360 quality graphics, HD or no HD. That being said though, I don't see why the games can't still look good and feature some cool tech. I can't say that I'm entirely dissapointed because all I've been hearing for the longest time is it will be a weakling in the tech department so this was expected...but I do deep down wish it could have the best of both worlds (awsome tech and innovation).
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 12, 2006, 03:27:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
I registered and the game looks great!
How am I a stick in the mud? Because I don't think the Rev is capable of 360 and PS3 quality graphics? Because I'm happy with actual facts and not delusions?
WHOOPS, I like how I haven't bothered to read any other pages in the topic, leading me to think you've been more negative than I led myself to believe, sorry!
And everyone needs to stop talking about the graphics...
Post by: attackslug on April 12, 2006, 04:14:50 AM
Post by: MaryJane on April 12, 2006, 05:49:45 AM
the crosshairs i don't believe are necessary, you're pointing at something on a t.v screen, i think the added difficulty would vastly improve gameplay at least for me. i mean at first it's all too likely that you'll be missing often, but as the game progresses you'd get better, and i believe the character evolves in the same manner, becoming and using more accuracy to accomplish his goals. with the cursor, or crosshairs, you're going to be accurate from the minute you start playing, which for me would become redundant quickly. whereas if I had to learn to be accurate myself, the difficulty of doing that keeps the gameplay fresh everytime i try to get a clean head shot.
Post by: Requiem on April 12, 2006, 06:58:30 AM
Good point, and that's exactly why I'm going to turn off the cursor once/if I get this game.
I don't know what you nay sayers are talking about, but the graphics look wonderful. They're not OMG! but there definitely enough for me. Actually, the thing that really impresses them in.
Those scans really impressed me. I can't wait to see what Nintendo has in store!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 12, 2006, 07:12:24 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 12, 2006, 07:15:07 AM
Teaser site is up.
Post by: wandering on April 12, 2006, 07:20:03 AM
On an unrelated note, tvg is reporting that the Red Steel logo will be awesome. Also, that the game won't feature much blood.
On another unrelated note, I've been thinking about the camera, and I think I may have figured out how it works. Imagine that your charachter has a 180 degree, semicircular, field of view. One that is larger than your tv screen. So, if you aim at a target to the right, even though the camera will center on the target, both your hand and the on-screen hand will remain twisted to the right. If you move the revmote back to center, the target will go back to what it was before you ever moved the revmote. If you move the revmote farther to the right, though...of course you can't keep moving your hand to the right forever. So, when you reach the edge of the semi-circle, that's when your character, instead of just your gun/the camera, turns. And the farther you move the revmote to the right, the faster the character turns. Move the revmote back to the center now, and you'll be pointing at something different.
Quote
And everyone needs to stop talking about the graphics...
Graphics, what graphics? What are graphics?
You know, I wonder, I've been hearing nothing but 'it looks better than the specs suggest!' and 'it looks just as bad as the specs indicate!'...if we saw these pics before learning anything about the rev's power, would the reaction to them have been better or worse?
edit:
Quote
http://www.redsteelgame.com/
Teaser site is up.
Whoa, pretty cool...even though it features no information whatsoever.
Post by: Kairon on April 12, 2006, 07:36:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJanethe crosshairs i don't believe are necessary, you're pointing at something on a t.v screen, i think the added difficulty would vastly improve gameplay at least for me. i mean at first it's all too likely that you'll be missing often, but as the game progresses you'd get better, and i believe the character evolves in the same manner, becoming and using more accuracy to accomplish his goals. with the cursor, or crosshairs, you're going to be accurate from the minute you start playing, which for me would become redundant quickly. whereas if I had to learn to be accurate myself, the difficulty of doing that keeps the gameplay fresh everytime i try to get a clean head shot.
Hold up! Headshots are bad in this game, remember?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Artimus on April 12, 2006, 07:50:43 AM
Anyone register on the site? What exclusive info do you get?
Post by: wandering on April 12, 2006, 07:54:28 AM
Post by: MaryJane on April 12, 2006, 08:54:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: MaryJanethe crosshairs i don't believe are necessary, you're pointing at something on a t.v screen, i think the added difficulty would vastly improve gameplay at least for me. i mean at first it's all too likely that you'll be missing often, but as the game progresses you'd get better, and i believe the character evolves in the same manner, becoming and using more accuracy to accomplish his goals. with the cursor, or crosshairs, you're going to be accurate from the minute you start playing, which for me would become redundant quickly. whereas if I had to learn to be accurate myself, the difficulty of doing that keeps the gameplay fresh everytime i try to get a clean head shot.
Hold up! Headshots are bad in this game, remember?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I disagree...
Quote
-"The goal...is to use five bullets to kill five enemies"
I don't know what you know about killing people, but contrary to what hollywood would have you believe, its actually rather difficult to kill someone with one body shot. unless of course this game is going to be unrealistic in that sense, i think headshots are absolutely necessary as in every FPS.
Unless of course you were joking
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 12, 2006, 09:06:05 AM
I hope they have several different ways of sparing someone's life. One such mentioned was disarming them by shooting the weapons out of their hands.
I hope you can sneak up on them and hold them up as well...for that would add a very important stealth element to the game. Though, I hope it is more fluid than in MGS. I never understood why you have to catch them completely unaware for pointing a gun at someone's head to work in stopping them.
I also hope leg and arm shots will cripple CPU so that they may stop fighting, and you can keep them alive that way as well.
Post by: jasonditz on April 12, 2006, 09:20:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
I don't know what you know about killing people, but contrary to what hollywood would have you believe, its actually rather difficult to kill someone with one body shot. unless of course this game is going to be unrealistic in that sense, i think headshots are absolutely necessary as in every FPS.
It depends what they mean by "killing" people. If you shoot them in the stomach and then keep them from getting medical attention, they'll die eventually.
Post by: Pale on April 12, 2006, 09:25:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditzQuote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
I don't know what you know about killing people, but contrary to what hollywood would have you believe, its actually rather difficult to kill someone with one body shot. unless of course this game is going to be unrealistic in that sense, i think headshots are absolutely necessary as in every FPS.
It depends what they mean by "killing" people. If you shoot them in the stomach and then keep them from getting medical attention, they'll die eventually.
Sounds like a job for MythBusters! =P
Post by: vudu on April 12, 2006, 09:56:54 AM
Post by: Artimus on April 12, 2006, 10:49:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Word on the streel is a trailer for this game will be released on April 20th. Not sure if there's any truth behind that.
There isn't. Nothing is happening April 20th. There are no expiring NDAs, there is nothing! E3 people, E3.
Post by: Kairon on April 12, 2006, 11:07:19 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: vudu on April 12, 2006, 11:14:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArtimusQuoteI'm sorry, but huh?Expiring NDA's has nothing to do with it. According to GI the only thing happening is that's the release date of the mag. But there's nothing stopping Ubisoft from releasing a trailer on that same day, is there?
There isn't. Nothing is happening April 20th. There are no expiring NDAs, there is nothing! E3 people, E3.
As it's been said (by you, I believe) it makes sense for third parties to release info pre-E3 so their games don't get lost in the Nintendo-shuffle. Why can't Ubisoft release a video?
Post by: TrueNerd on April 12, 2006, 11:19:30 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 12, 2006, 11:37:11 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 12, 2006, 02:00:22 PM
Post by: Michael8983 on April 12, 2006, 05:36:24 PM
I'm all for it in theory but it makes me wonder if the game isn't going to be nearly as realistic as people are picturing. This is a game where you can slash at bad guys with a sword. How is that going to look if they keep it "T" rated?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 12, 2006, 06:13:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
There isn't. Nothing is happening April 20th. There are no expiring NDAs, there is nothing! E3 people, E3.
What do you you mean nothing is happening on April 20th.... You should be ashamed.
Don't worry MaryJane, I didn't forget your birthday!!
Post by: ThePerm on April 12, 2006, 08:01:53 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 12, 2006, 08:21:25 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 12, 2006, 08:49:15 PM
Post by: mantidor on April 12, 2006, 10:06:23 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 12, 2006, 10:26:04 PM
It never occured to me that they'd been doing exactly that in France for years!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: wandering on April 13, 2006, 12:12:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Michael8983
This is a game where you can slash at bad guys with a sword. How is that going to look if they keep it "T" rated?
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
On an unrelated note, tvg is reporting that...the game won't feature much blood.
edit, by the by, 4cr has some good new scans.
Post by: MaryJane on April 13, 2006, 04:06:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
There isn't. Nothing is happening April 20th. There are no expiring NDAs, there is nothing! E3 people, E3.
What do you you mean nothing is happening on April 20th.... You should be ashamed.
Don't worry MaryJane, I didn't forget your birthday!!
LoL thanks, I will be celebrating of course. Especially since I'll be buying this issue of GI. I can't wait for this, it is so friggin cool, I can't remember the last time I was this excited for a game coming out that wasn't made by Nintendo... oh wait yeah I can RE4, but that was a great game. But I want this even more than that.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 13, 2006, 04:44:19 AM
Depends. Singles got rated 16 and AO while God of War was too violent even for an 18 rating while the ESRB happily labelled it M. Dismemberment or blood pretty much always gives you at least 18.
Though maybe it got its rating for the "emotion" only the Revolution controller can allow... Followed by cutting her head off and taking your money back.
Hmm...I've always said to myself that if someone had the guts to make an AO game, then I'd buy it purely for the novelty aspect.
You might want to reconsider that.
Post by: Kairon on April 13, 2006, 04:48:31 AM
Make that MAINSTREAM AO game. Whate'er that is...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on April 17, 2006, 07:14:38 AM
I like the attention to detail Ubisoft has put into the Rev controller's interaction with the game...things such as the in-game gun being held at the same angle as the remote. I'm glad to see some proof of concept, this game looks like it could be a lot of fun, and it's something that definitely wouldn't be as good on the other systems.
I still kind of wish Nintendo had packed a bit more power into this new system, but the controller has me way more excited than the power of the competing machines.
Post by: Requiem on April 17, 2006, 07:29:22 AM
I've been saying the same thing myself. However, do you realize how small the Revolution is?
All I'm saying is that if it is as tiny as everyone is saying and as quiet as Nintendo is saying then I'll most likely end up astonished that the graphics it produces came out of such a tiny system.
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 07:46:32 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: KDR_11k on April 17, 2006, 07:50:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
*coughhackwheezecoughchokesputterwheezegobblebogglehacksniff*
Make that MAINSTREAM AO game. Whate'er that is...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
This?
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 17, 2006, 08:08:52 AM
There just aren't any. And really, if someone really wanted to push the video game industry they would figure a way to create a game with a great story dealing with very sophisticated issues that just happened to push the rating limit to AO at the same time.
You would have to do it in such away that it wasn't a sparkling innovation...and I would probably make it an RPG of some sort.
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 08:51:50 AM
Hmm....I'll have to do research on that game. Bad games can be just as enlightening as good ones...
I was sorta hoping...though... for something with a more Sprung-like sensibility...
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 09:05:04 AM
My problem is that everything it does, so does The Sims 2... I mean..."woohooo!"
The Sims 2 should be an AO game.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 17, 2006, 09:28:31 AM
I don't want the game to compromise vision, but I also don't want the game to become NEEDLESSLY violent. I mean, there really isn't a need to show limbs flying off of bodies while you shot them point blank in the head to kill them.
You could just show a slash wound or the person get knocked back from the force of the attack...and you would have a good enough game for me.
Also remember Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were not overly violent with blood either. Perfect Dark more then Goldeneye, but not too bad.
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 09:50:57 AM
It can work with, or without, ultra violence depending on how the developers present it.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on April 17, 2006, 01:51:09 PM
Give me blood and guts!
Post by: IceCold on April 17, 2006, 02:09:14 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 17, 2006, 04:31:19 PM
Sophisticated themes and dealing with controversial issues isn't going to get you slapped with an AO. Quite frankly it's probably going to detract from the chances of it happening. There's no good reason you can't make a hard-hitting RPG that deals with, for instance, the travails of an HIV-infected ex-prostitute trying to turn his/her life around in a society that shuns them. It's only when you tack on the photorealistic teabagging minigame that they're going to even think about an AO rating. And again, things like that are going to make the game seem campy and childish, not gritty or sophisticated.
Post by: vudu on April 17, 2006, 05:03:11 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 17, 2006, 05:26:50 PM
I'd say they were fake, but they look so bad I can't imagine anybody putting them out there expecting them to fool somebody... early dev shots might be possible though.
Post by: jasonditz on April 17, 2006, 05:28:02 PM
Post by: Requiem on April 17, 2006, 05:48:06 PM
In fact, each screen took up about 1/12 of the entire page, so you can imagine how small the shots were and how bad the resolution must of been.
Second of all, sure they're not pretty, but you can definitely see some lighting in that last scan. Overall, I could give a sh#t simply because I am so hyped up on the gameplay that I don't have time to be bothered with petty graphics.
Post by: attackslug on April 17, 2006, 06:02:05 PM
Even so, you can see that this game will certainly include some eye-candy: If you look closely at the first shot, you can notice that the sword is casting a shadow onto the players arm. Also, there is some nice bloom lighting going on in the last shot. It is tough to tell, but judging from the larger scans, it looks like there is a per-pixel lighting model being used, and either the models are very high-poly or there is indeed some normal mapping at work.
I wonder why people are convinced that this game will have/has sub-GC graphics. Rebel Strike had plenty of high-poly, self shadowing, and bumpmapped models, very sharply textured, bumpy, and specular-highlighted environments, as well as a great per-pixel realtime lighting model. Not to mention all this is at a near-constant 60fps. If the Rev is truly twice to three times as powerful as the GC, people should not be surprised that it will produce games that look on par with or far surperior to the best of the GC's offerings.
Post by: Mario on April 17, 2006, 07:06:32 PM
Post by: trip1eX on April 17, 2006, 07:57:46 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 17, 2006, 08:39:59 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 08:41:05 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on April 17, 2006, 10:48:18 PM
I haven't played it, but why not? Always trust Pro when it comes to Gaffix
Quote
Originally posted by: trip1eX
Enhanced Gamecube graphics. Better than the Xbox. That's what to expect. It's not going to be on the level of the 360 and it won't be worse than the Gamecube.
I expect Nintendo Revolution graphics.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 17, 2006, 11:07:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
CHIBI FRIGGIN ROBO
I haven't played it, but why not? Always trust Pro when it comes to Gaffix
I played Chibi Robo earlier to day at a demo station and that game looks like an N64 port.
Chibi Robo DOES NOT look better than Xbox.
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 11:47:50 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 17, 2006, 11:56:26 PM
Post by: Kairon on April 17, 2006, 11:57:44 PM
I walked right into that didn't I? Haha!
Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 18, 2006, 01:19:24 AM
Quote
Chibi Robo DOES NOT look better than Xbox
Post by: Nephilim on April 18, 2006, 03:26:12 AM
you can set your computer to games like that also, but setting screen res to very low in video card settings
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 18, 2006, 04:08:09 AM
Post by: Dasmos on April 18, 2006, 04:13:31 AM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 18, 2006, 04:17:14 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on April 18, 2006, 05:45:31 AM
I admit some of the shots are pretty mediocre, but I think others look better than Resident Evil 4.
Post by: mantidor on April 18, 2006, 05:57:39 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 18, 2006, 06:10:43 AM
Post by: mantidor on April 18, 2006, 06:55:16 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 18, 2006, 07:03:08 AM
Wouldn't be the first occurrance of self-shadowing that's in the preview shots but not in the final game (or shading at all HELLO BETHESDA!)
Post by: jasonditz on April 18, 2006, 08:36:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Oh bloody hell...please people do not start the "looks like an N64 game" crap...that gave me such a headache when the GameCube came out. If you think the shots are rubbish, that's fine, but if you think it looks like an N64 game...you haven't played N64 in a while.
I admit some of the shots are pretty mediocre, but I think others look better than Resident Evil 4.
the original screenshots we saw look very pretty and very nextgen. The bottom couple of those last three alleged screenshots look like something out of Goldeneye... sorry if that hurts your feelings, but it's the truth.
I'm willing to accept that maybe they're blown up versions of crappy source material or whatever and maybe they're real after all... but compared to the GI scans we saw earlier this month they look downright weak.
Post by: odilon on April 18, 2006, 09:01:56 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 18, 2006, 10:00:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: odilon
They are from the same article, but the originals are only an inch or two wide.
Listen to this guy. he smart.
The "new" screens are just blown-up scans of the MARGINS of the GI article. It's just like Infernal's Chibi/Xbox "comparison" pics. Except we're dealing with printer ink-dots instead of compressed JPEGs.
Look for the scans of the GI article that showed whole pages. You'll find those screens -- at ~1/6 the size of the bigger screens.
Sarcastic tomfoolery is one thing, leaving the restroom without putting on your Critical Thinking Underpants is another.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 18, 2006, 10:10:19 AM
Post by: Kairon on April 18, 2006, 10:23:37 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: eljefe on April 18, 2006, 10:25:12 AM
but to settle peoples nerves
"N64" flicks in context
and
the other "N64" flick in context
Post by: Strell on April 18, 2006, 10:43:11 AM
Post by: TrueNerd on April 18, 2006, 12:00:19 PM
Post by: Svevan on April 18, 2006, 02:36:12 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 18, 2006, 02:46:08 PM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on April 18, 2006, 03:00:16 PM
Post by: EasyCure on April 18, 2006, 04:28:26 PM
Post by: jasonditz on April 18, 2006, 05:33:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
i have a friend who works at a gamestop, so i did him the favor of becoming one of their member things and paying for a GI subscription so i could save a penny or two on used games because he said thats how he makes his money. so yeah, i get the magazine, i recieved mine a few days ago and non of the scans do it justice. ESPECIALLY the ones that are being blown up. graphics were never my thing but i've always said "good graphics dont hurt" (until games like terminator 3 that look good if you're not doing anything and have no framerate whatsoever). stop basing your opinions on the scans, the mag should be out by now go pick one up then come back and post ignorant remarks, k?
Actually I went to Barnes and Noble today and they didn't have it yet... they still had last month's.
Not sure I wanted it anyhow... I can't decide to buy it until it's on the market, and by then there'll be plenty of videos, quality screenshots, etc of all these games.
Post by: MaleficentOgre on April 18, 2006, 06:35:43 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on April 19, 2006, 05:38:52 AM
Post by: MaryJane on April 19, 2006, 07:42:13 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 19, 2006, 09:16:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I hope it turns out really well, because this could be the game that sells Revolution to Joe Halo and Johnny GTA in North America.
EXACTLY.
One of the things I had ALWAYS said was that Nintendo badly needs to overturn the image that its consoles and games are aimed at children.
After reading the magazine close-up scans, it's blatantly apparent that it was Nintendo's decision to let Red Steel be the first Rev game shown off. There's no longer a doubt in my mind regarding whether or not they realize that Sony and MS love to saddle them with the kiddé image at every turn. Insecurity has sold so many products to so many people that it's ridiculous. With Red Steel being a flagship mature title, calling Nintendo kiddé just doesn't work anymore.
Post by: MysticGohan on April 19, 2006, 09:27:02 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on April 19, 2006, 09:43:01 AM
Post by: trip1eX on April 19, 2006, 09:48:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I hope it turns out really well, because this could be the game that sells Revolution to Joe Halo and Johnny GTA in North America.
EXACTLY.
One of the things I had ALWAYS said was that Nintendo badly needs to overturn the image that its consoles and games are aimed at children.
What's ironic is there is an interview with one of MS's 360 heads floating around today where the guy (Kim) says the Xbox had too hardcore of an image and that they are trying to market it to the more casual and all ages crowd. Viva Pinata is supposedly one of their important games because of that. They also will do more games with peripherals and attachments than before.
http://www.gametab.com/news/538900/
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 19, 2006, 11:07:21 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 19, 2006, 11:32:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Nintendo does not need to balance their image much in the way of products, but need to try and change the mentality of alot of gamers who think they are "tiku tiku tiku! " through marketing. GC has a wide variety of games, with a wide variety of ratings (I hesitate to say "Mature" since that is very subjective) but there is still that wicked straw man out there that Nintendo is tiku tiku tiku! .
And with Red Steel as the first Rev game out there, that man is greatly diminished.
Now, if more Rev games will be revealed which will likewise be aimed at older gamers, then Nintendo can smash this image for good.
I doubt the 360 will be able to push into the family market segment. You can't aggressively market a console as being aimed at the "mature" audience, even going so far as to openly mock Nintendo, then turn around and expect that people will welcome it as a "family" console.
Post by: animecyberrat on April 19, 2006, 09:16:08 PM
Where GC gotits image was Luigis Manision, Pikmin, SM Sunshine, etc. there were many M and T rated games for GC but theyd idnt sell well and werent advertised well where as N64 they were.
Post by: BigJim on April 19, 2006, 10:18:07 PM
And I disagree with the point... One launch game in a system's 5 year lineup isn't going to change an image. It's going to take a more consistent library and a reasonable marketing strategy to do that.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 20, 2006, 04:27:52 AM
Post by: EasyCure on April 20, 2006, 05:39:52 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on April 20, 2006, 04:59:29 PM
The pictures look better than they did in the scans found online. The lighting looks the most impressive..
I think the game is widescreen too, unless they cropped all the images to that width.
Post by: couchmonkey on April 21, 2006, 08:19:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And with Red Steel as the first Rev game out there, that man is greatly diminished.
Now, if more Rev games will be revealed which will likewise be aimed at older gamers, then Nintendo can smash this image for good.
I doubt the 360 will be able to push into the family market segment. You can't aggressively market a console as being aimed at the "mature" audience, even going so far as to openly mock Nintendo, then turn around and expect that people will welcome it as a "family" console.
Of course, if you're right that Nintendo wanted this game revealed first to tear down the "for kids" image, then it's probably a safe bet that Nintendo doesn't have many other games in this vein. Metroid Prime 3 and Red Steel are probably it. Still, if Nintendo can release both of those on or near launch, that would be a lot better than the launch lineup for the Cube, as far as showing that Nintendo isn't just for kids.
GameCube has a decent selection of adult games, just as the N64 did. The problem for both systems is that most of the adult games are not in the forefront of the public's mind. Who cares about Mortal Kombat or Nightmare Creatures? Mario and Pokemon are what sell Nintendo systems, and those aren't "adult". By comparison, the big titles for Xbox and Sony are games like Halo, Dead or Alive, Grand Theft Auto and Final Fantasy.
I'm not quite sure what Microsoft's audience is. Xbox's main audience would seem to be teenage boys and twenty-something guys, judging by the games that are popular for the system, but I don't know. It does have fans in the under-12 age group, in fact Xbox seems to be hugely popular in that group. It's a cooler brand than GameCube. But I guess maybe Microsoft's game selection prompts concerned parents to buy GameCubes for their kids even if Xbox is what the kids want. The coolness of the Xbox is also probably a little less important with younger kids, less than 7 or 8 or whatever.
As far as grabbing more of the family segment goes, I have a feeling Microsoft will have trouble for the same reasons as Nintendo: the games that it's known for are not family titles. Turning that around will take more than just one or two games.
Post by: jasonditz on May 04, 2006, 07:35:37 PM
"The only original first-person game built from the ground up and exclusively for the Wii™ launch."
Which I guess tells us something about the rest of the launch titles.
Post by: mantidor on May 04, 2006, 07:39:44 PM
Post by: Requiem on May 04, 2006, 07:52:42 PM
I have a feeling there will be another one
Post by: Caliban on May 09, 2006, 08:42:07 PM
Post by: wandering on May 09, 2006, 08:44:23 PM
Oh, BTW, we finally get direct feeds of those stupid shots from the magazine.
Post by: attackslug on May 10, 2006, 06:59:33 AM
I'd be impressed if these were truly in game shots, but I'm starting to think otherwise.
Post by: willie1234 on May 10, 2006, 07:06:37 AM
Post by: attackslug on May 10, 2006, 07:14:51 AM
Yes, they could very well be in-game shots. But I'm going to assume that they aren't for the time being, until I see high quality direct feed footage or screens.
EDIT:
According to the hands-on reports today, the game is lacking visually. In particular, the models and faces are quite blocky. My guess is that the screens and trailer are the game running on a PC, and are hopefully of "target" quality. Ubisoft apparently did not recieve near final dev kits until the end of March, and I'd assume/hope that the visuals are still being tweaked and optimized for the crossover from PC to final Wii hardware. So far, the physics and AI look like they are well in place, and one would hope that Ubisoft spends the next few months refining the control (reports say it is too sensitive) as well as getting the actual visuals up to par with the trailer.
Post by: attackslug on May 11, 2006, 03:21:44 PM
I REALLY hope that Ubisoft can meet the allegedly lofty expectations of this game, because it truly does show a good deal of promise. But then again, so did Geist.
Post by: Aussiedude on May 11, 2006, 03:36:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: attackslug
Man, the more and more I hear about RS, the less enthused I am about it. Honestly, I'm not sold on a simple gesturing system for the swordplay. Sure, it simplifies the gameplay in that it eliminates confusion from when an attack is blocked or hits a wall, but it sort of... defeats the purpose of the controller? Also, the lack of accuarcy with the remote during gunplay is distressing, and the subpar visuals don't help either.
I REALLY hope that Ubisoft can meet the allegedly lofty expectations of this game, because it truly does show a good deal of promise. But then again, so did Geist.
Yes same here. This game seems to show up serious shortcomings in the freehand controller. It was going to be a must have game for me, and one of the main reasons for getting the Wii. But if Wii is going to be like the Gamecube and have no worthwhile FPS's, I'll bet a XBOX360 (at lease it has decent online like Live) or PS3 in 12 months time when games for it come out.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 11, 2006, 03:43:18 PM
Besides, a lot of impressions have been posted and the majority say that even with the slight issues it's still a fun game to try out.
Just don't be quick to judge a game just because it recieved a lukewarm preview. After all, there have been games that get great previews but end up sucking in the end.
Post by: Aussiedude on May 11, 2006, 03:47:26 PM
I HOPE you are right, but Im not overly confident.
Post by: attackslug on May 11, 2006, 03:49:35 PM
What has me concerned is the direction things seem to be taking. The most worrisome would be the lack of true aiming and freehand sword control, both of which are apparently possible according to reports of various tech demos from IGN. I really hope that Ubi takes note of the (valid) criticism and makes this game as good as they possibly can, even if it means a delay.
Post by: trip1eX on May 11, 2006, 04:08:33 PM
It sounds like they made the game using a regular controller and tried to map that functionality over to the pointer. Good news is I believe it's not a problem with the wiimote itself. Folks seem to like MP3 controls. Also IGN reviewed the obstacle course demoand said the pointer worked to near perfection. So it's all up to Ubi.
They'll get it going. I'm sure they'll up the graphics too. I just hope they don't release it if it isn't in tip top shape by launch. Better to delay a couple months then to launch a rush job.
Post by: mantidor on May 18, 2006, 07:34:25 AM
Post by: EasyCure on May 18, 2006, 07:50:04 AM
when you're playing the game will you honestly be worried about where your hand is aiming or will you concentrate on the game and the cursor that tells you where you are aiming? its a non-issue for me and to anyone who takes the time to think of it that way. so what if your hand is pointed to the sensor bar, you're not keeping your eye on your hands, you're keeping your eye on the screen; where the reticules for aiming are, where the game interprets you to be aiming with precision. thats all that matters.
just to get worked up on that issue alone is a waste of time and energy, but yeah this EARLY preview did make the game out to be flawed. then again, like most people are saying it is still pretty early to pass judgement, especially on the wiimote and its functionality (i'm lookin' at you Ian) when other games are being praised for its control. hopefully it will all be fixed before its release, and they dont release it before these things are fixed. it will be a great game to miss out on.
who knows, maybe they'll even fix the sword fighting mechanics so that you wave your sword around with the same precision you do with a gun.
Post by: Requiem on May 18, 2006, 08:09:20 AM
As an example, Metriod Prime with Expert sensitivity looked amazing (watched an E3 off-screen vid). You could aim with the flick of the wrist and turn fast enough to keep track of fast moving enemies. Also, you can aim at all sides of the screen without turning (much like Red Steel is trying to do). It was fact, accurate, and leaps ahead of any FPS.
Like people have said before, it's up to Ubi to fix the controls. The Wiimote is not limiting at all (even the pointer funtionality is great).
I am willing to give this game a try as I am sure many of you will. If Ubi can fix the control problems even if a DELAY IS NEEDED, it seems like they might have themselves a winner. In fact, I'll go far as to say that they might have a killer-app on their hands if they make it like the trailer.
That reminds me. I showed the trailer to a friend who's a few years older than me. He has a job and is starting his bachelor life. He use to like playing videogames, but didn't think they were engaging enough and lost interest. Anyway, I showed him the trailer and immediatedly he said "You know, some games come out where it is THE game to have. Just like GoldenEye was for the N64 or Halo for the Xbox. Now this game could definitely be that game."
I couldn't agree more.
Post by: vudu on May 18, 2006, 09:49:57 AM
Post by: Requiem on May 18, 2006, 10:43:09 AM
My birthday?!
Post by: vudu on May 18, 2006, 11:48:57 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 18, 2006, 11:54:25 AM
Post by: zakkiel on May 19, 2006, 06:27:34 AM
Quote"True aim" is an improvement only if you want a lightgun game. If that's what you're looking for, I'm sure some will come out. For myself, I have no interest in them, and couldn't care less if RS features it. When I want the experience of firing a revolver, I actually fire one.
The most worrisome would be the lack of true aiming and freehand sword control, both of which are apparently possible according to reports of various tech demos from IGN. I really hope that Ubi takes note of the (valid) criticism and makes this game as good as they possibly can, even if it means a delay.
And the lack of freehand sword control if a limitation of the remote, not the game. If it's the difference for you between buying and not buying the game, you should probably consider not buying the console.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 19, 2006, 06:52:11 AM
I think the game has a lot offer and they have time to polish it until Q4.
Post by: EasyCure on May 19, 2006, 07:41:43 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 19, 2006, 10:08:11 AM
The story and concepts alone are enough to sell me on the idea, and if they follow it up with swordfighting multiplayer? DEFINITELY a reason to own a Wii.
Post by: Kairon on May 19, 2006, 01:26:19 PM
GoNintendo has the comments made by an Official Ubisoft poster at the IGN Insider forums.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on June 21, 2006, 09:01:27 PM
Post by: Requiem on June 21, 2006, 10:02:46 PM
After watching the demo posted by BlackNmild in some other thread, I hope the controls for aiming are fixed as well, because either that dude really sucks, or it's really janky.
The Metriod 3 demo, however, was the exact opposite. The aim was exact and precise -- and looked like a whole lot of fun!
Post by: Crimm on June 21, 2006, 10:14:56 PM
Post by: attackslug on June 22, 2006, 04:22:50 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2006, 06:35:26 AM
Considering that, the writers could easily have noticed a difference if the floor demo was already scrapped by the time of demonstration.
Post by: EasyCure on June 22, 2006, 03:55:00 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2006, 04:09:24 PM
Post by: Crimm on June 22, 2006, 06:27:05 PM
Then again, I'm under the after-effects of anesthesia, so I'll reread it when I'm more together tomorrow.
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2006, 07:16:57 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 22, 2006, 08:01:44 PM
Quote
After being unveiled in our pages a few short months ago, Red Steel was shared with a wider audience at E3 in playable form, and was easily the most talked-about third-party game for the Wii. [g]Unlike the version we saw in Paris, the E3 build of Red Steel[/g] had both the shooting and swordplay sections of the game playable, as well as some of the other motion-based features, such as reloading and opening doors. The Freeshot feature, which allows you to pause time and pick your targets, was in place, as was the ability to command surrendered foes with gestures. But getting to finally try the swordplay was easily the biggest thrill, as we faced off against a boss character at the end of the demo level. Not only did the remote accurately replicate our actual sword slashes, but the recently unveiled motion sensor in the nunchuck attachment could be used to parry attacks. Just as the Red Stel team promised, timing and observation was key to winning the saber duels nearly everyone had as kids, so anyone who ever dreamed of being a samurai will pick it right up. Both the sword and gun sections of the game will be polished even further before release, but Red Steel was already playing remarkably well, and we’re confident it will be one of the hottest games of the Wii launch.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2006, 08:22:47 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 23, 2006, 02:44:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYJe-Ct2NxY&search=red%20steel
Ooh! The flutter of baseless "the Wii will have better graphics" accusations.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 23, 2006, 05:10:46 PM
Post by: attackslug on June 23, 2006, 08:43:20 PM
As far as the revamp goes, my guess is that they are simply implementing a far wider range of recognized gestures. Instead of a single downward slash gesture and animation, I would bet that there would be a much wider variety corresponding to a good number of different angles for the same basic motion.
Still, the freeform control scheme could possibly work... perhaps during swordfights, free perspective control is deactivated and the analogue stick lets you advance, retreat, as well as circle the opponent, which the camera locks on to. The remote is now able to be manipulated freely. Wild flailing motions could do minimal damage if they connect, and perhaps the AI could recognize such motions and respond with a simple one-hit kill thrust or stab making it an unwise strategy. Blocks could be achieved by appropriately angling the sword or by tossing the nunchaku forwards, like at E3.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 23, 2006, 10:48:35 PM
Post by: Nephilim on June 24, 2006, 06:13:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYJe-Ct2NxY&search=red%20steel
Ooh! The flutter of baseless "the Wii will have better graphics" accusations"
considering youtube compression is comparable to wmv 56k compression, i doubt u can use that as a graphical baises compared with a 2000kb insider video from ign *rolls eyes*
konami sword game sucked, the bad guys had no ai, you had to swing the control like 30cm for it too even pick up movement
most swings missed due to this
ppl who keep comparing it are getting a little annoying
even top games like comnemded and oblivion released this year, which use swing systems... still have bad sword fighting ai, they dont act like real humans , just a bunch of scripted lunges/dodges baised off ur attack/movement
Post by: oohhboy on June 25, 2006, 12:51:50 AM
Post by: zakkiel on June 26, 2006, 05:04:46 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 26, 2006, 09:42:23 AM
I'm wondering if the submission will still be in the game, where you hold the sword to your opponent's throat and he surrenders.
Post by: Requiem on June 26, 2006, 10:53:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
My guess is, it will be basically free-form, but the sword will have a capped speed. This both makes sense and prevents constant wiggling as a strategy; your best et will be calm, considered movements where you don't get too far ahead of the sword.
That would be perfect. It forces you to play realistically.
Post by: EasyCure on June 27, 2006, 04:33:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
From what I've read, it's a dodge, parry, attack system where you'll need to knock the AI off balance before attacking by blocking with your short blade (the nunchuck) first and then following it up with a sword attack.
I'm wondering if the submission will still be in the game, where you hold the sword to your opponent's throat and he surrenders.
thats a good question...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2006, 05:47:11 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 01, 2006, 09:44:56 PM
Post by: Requiem on July 01, 2006, 10:06:44 PM
This could be the killer app next gen needs (cause lord knows 360 doesn't have it).
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 10:29:58 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on July 01, 2006, 10:58:16 PM
Who knows which one will make the better game though.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2006, 11:20:28 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 12:51:17 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: nemo_83 on July 02, 2006, 01:49:38 AM
First person and sword control (using the nunchuck) means tunnel vision and targeting. Sword fighting would work fine in third person like a Zelda game with a 3/4 perspective camera where the developer controls the camera and the space is taken out; the player can see in all directions and swing the remote freely without any camera issues. The developers of Red Steel have chosen to face the challenge of first person sword fighting; the E3 build was more like a game built with the 360's pad in mind if you know what I mean.
I am currently confused about the game's controls, every source has a different story.
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 02:39:27 AM
If Red Steel promises to have "gesture-based" sword-fighting embedded in its first-person shooter elements, how can anyone deny that it offers something unique among the sea of generic FPS' that are voraciously consumed by gamers and gaming magazines everywhere?
Besides, this isn't Nintendo making it. We can't expect perfection. Heck, third parties take AGES to get anything right. Look at XIII. Uck. That got a mediocre score though didn't it? If Red Steel turns out to have straightforward FPS gameplay and then some neat little gesture-based swordplay, I'd fully expect it to be hailed as at least an interesting yet mediocre attempt at a game.
And heck, that's enough for me. After all, I can hold my gun gangsta style. I'm sold.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on July 02, 2006, 04:47:17 AM
I thought it looked awesome in the E3 presentation, but obviously others who played it didn't and there's obviously people out there now throwing trash bags at it. Either they're wrong (hopefully) or the game needs to be delayed from launch. Yeah yeah I know Wii Sports / Metroid / Wario / Big Damn Trucks will be awesome, fans of them will be buying those games anyway, Red Steel is THE casual gamer game. The 100 million people who bought a PS2 for cars n gunz n blud and are ALREADY INTO videogames (aka easy sales).
Also I like fun games! I guess as long as it's not broken people will love it. People loved Enter the Matrix. (i've encountered such human species). But who's talking about Enter the Matrix NOW? HUH? I guess I am. No i'm not drunk, GO RED STEEL!
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2006, 06:05:02 AM
Post by: SixthAngel on July 02, 2006, 07:21:39 AM
No free sword movement doesn't seem like a problem. If you slash in a direction the sword will as well just like you are swinging a sword. The only part taken out is the ability to see the sword move with you and look cool. While I like things that look cool it doesn't really take much away.
I am really looking forward to Red Steel and I don't expect all of the current videogame reviewers to embrace it. All they can usually do is talk about mouse controls and compare it. People who are used to and love a certain control system and derivatives of it usually aren' t ready to accept something different. A mouse shouldn't even be mentioned when talking about it because it is not a fusion of a game controller and a mouse but a light gun game with first person shooter movement. Red Steel won't play like usual and shouldn't.
Post by: Strell on July 02, 2006, 07:43:55 AM
I.e., boring.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 02, 2006, 12:10:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Gears of War, to begin with, is a Third Person Shooter. Go see one of the E3 2006 playthroughs of it with Cliffy B. explaining it. The game looks very well-thought-out, and it may just be the first game to get third-person-shooters right, contrary to Miyamoto's opinion on the genre.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
I watched the live action feeds from IGN, and I stand corrected that it isn't a FPS, I missed that when I was reading through hands-on impressions with the game. With that said I can't believe people are getting excited about the game, if the gameplay videos are any indication it looks like a generic run and gun shooter. There is no variety in the enemies, and you basically shoot mindlessly at hordes of them. Heck it might as well be a FPS, it seems to play like like one (a very generic one at that) only with a 3rd person view. I'll give you that later on the game may improve, but so far I'm not impressed, it looks like yet another mindless, gory, post apocalyptic shoot fest.
In referring to Nemo's bashing of Red Steel, all that may be true, but I believe the E3 build was basically built on GC hardware so that can explain alot. Not only that but Ubisoft seems to be addressing the issues people had with the game, so I wouldn't count it out yet based on an E3 demo.
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 02:26:28 PM
I was also impressed by small innovations, like a system where players can shift their attention and their camera to points of interest or doors in a room with a simple press on the D-pad, or bounce indicators for grenades. And of course, because they want the game's weapons to be physically on the character so that players can actually see the character physically switch/pull out weapons instead of them magically appearing, this will by its nature pare down the variety of weapons, and make the game based on other game mechanisms.
It almost seems as if the game is going back to old-school gameplay-based challenges. The game is more about using cover than aiming guns. Heck, the enemies are immune to headshots! I really do think that, considering the subtleties of how the game was designed, it doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the "rest" of those FPS'. With the rest of the sci-fi third-person shooters, yes, but not the FPS'.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on July 02, 2006, 03:04:31 PM
That's all I'm saying. If one were to have a better chance at becoming a killer-app it would be Red steel; arguably, because the Wii is so innovative (thus making its titles innovative, or at least more prone to innovate).
And in all honesty, no matter how good Gears of Wars is, if Red Steel is great, it won't matter.
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on July 02, 2006, 03:25:47 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 02, 2006, 04:02:57 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 04:29:57 PM
But! I'm intent on buying Red Steel at launch. All I want from that game is a nice little twist on the regular formula, and I'll be happy. Already I'm very impressed with the art direction for the game, how everything seems outlined or suffused with light. It's so awesome! Like a garish Tokyo nightlife!
I personally think that Red Steel simply needs to be adequate to succeed. The Wiimote will do the rest. However, I'm not quite so sure that the gaming media (oh, excuse me, the gaming consumer advice publications) will be quite so objective and instead set off on a critical stint of Nintendo bashing.
Ubisoft! Take heart! Make Red Steel 2 and keep working on improving those controls! I believe in you!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 02, 2006, 05:09:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm generally optimistic on Gears of War, but ANYWAYS... I'm not buying $400 of hardware for any game but Mario/Zelda.
But! I'm intent on buying Red Steel at launch. All I want from that game is a nice little twist on the regular formula, and I'll be happy. Already I'm very impressed with the art direction for the game, how everything seems outlined or suffused with light. It's so awesome! Like a garish Tokyo nightlife!
I personally think that Red Steel simply needs to be adequate to succeed. The Wiimote will do the rest. However, I'm not quite so sure that the gaming media (oh, excuse me, the gaming consumer advice publications) will be quite so objective and instead set off on a critical stint of Nintendo bashing.
Ubisoft! Take heart! Make Red Steel 2 and keep working on improving those controls! I believe in you!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Chances are pretty good that I will get a hands on with Gears of War, since my mentor at Microsoft (head of franchise development) is going to try and get me into beta testing their in production games. The thing is that I probaly won't be able to talk about it since I will have to sign a non disclosure form, so I won't be able to give my opinion beyond whether my opinion is still positive or negative.
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 05:18:41 PM
Oh, and I have no idea how multiplayer went for GoW, I've just heard from other people that it was nice.
Traitor! Spy! Lover of Mr. Redd White of Bluecorp!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 02, 2006, 05:36:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Hmm... Wouldn't Epic do their own in-house testing? Or is the Gears of War Project so important to Microsoft since it's their best shot to spoil the PS3 launch?
Oh, and I have no idea how multiplayer went for GoW, I've just heard from other people that it was nice.
Traitor! Spy! Lover of Mr. Redd White of Bluecorp!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Well my mentor was unsure about the specifics, so we'll see. Even if I don't get to play it, it should be a great and unique experience. He is also going to see if I can get a tour of MS Game Studios, which should be an exciting and memorable time.
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2006, 06:42:22 PM
I know I don't make the qualifications to even apply. A company that has 2000 jobs 3000 applicants only accepts 1000 of them and then turns around and complains that there aren't enough people applying for jobs. Thats some stiff requirements.
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2006, 10:38:05 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 02, 2006, 10:55:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
VGRevolution does that mean your Co-oping/Interning at Microsoft or do you have a job with them?
I know I don't make the qualifications to even apply. A company that has 2000 jobs 3000 applicants only accepts 1000 of them and then turns around and complains that there aren't enough people applying for jobs. Thats some stiff requirements.
Nah it isn't an internship, but it could get me one down the line. At my university they have a mentorship program where they choose someone to pair you with that is an industry you are interested in, my top choice was someone at Nintendo but they don't take in students. My second choice was Microsoft, and they paired me with Ed Ventura who is in charge of franchise development (his task mainly focuses on side ventyures for their franchises, like arranging movie deals, with an example being Halo or selling rights to make toys based off a series). I've been meeting him for 1 hr 30 minutes every Friday and serves as mentor who I can talk to and learn from. He is going to see if I can get an internship which is required for my bachelors, but if not then down the line he may serve as a great connection within Microsoft.
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2006, 06:01:53 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 03, 2006, 12:46:00 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 06, 2006, 10:59:02 AM
Marie-Sol Beaudry: Yes, we plan to have MP mode up to 4 player in split screen."
RED FLOP CONFIRMED
NO ONLINE OFFERINGS AT LAUNCH.
Wii IS TOO WEAK TO HANDLE INTERNETS
Post by: ShyGuy on July 06, 2006, 11:49:59 AM
Post by: Requiem on July 06, 2006, 11:55:02 AM
They started production not very long ago and they are dealing with a completely new method of control. I think once developers start to settle down, we'll see WiFi games and the like (most likely next christmas). It's all very similar to the DS.
Post by: Kairon on July 06, 2006, 01:36:14 PM
Quote
UbiSoft generated a lot of buzz this past spring when they revealed their plans for Red Steel, a first person action game that would be exclusive for Nintendo's Wii console. FiringSquad got a chance to chat with the game's producer Marie-Sol Beaudry to find out more about their plans for Red Steel and how it uses the unusual Wii remote controller.
Click here for all the juicy bits and pieces!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 06, 2006, 07:46:25 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 07, 2006, 12:36:06 PM
RS is definitely on my must-have list for launch titles and I frankly hope Ubi advertises the bejeezus out of it. The Wii is Nintendo's best chance ever to break free of the "only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles" stigma which largely haunted them with the GC.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 07, 2006, 01:09:57 PM
Quote
They made a first list of interactions: cut, shoot, slash, smash, dick, use it as a rackets, lasso, spoon, flashlight… They wanted to focus on the moves that are possible to do in reality.
Wait, what? Wii's got a secret weapon in the fight against real time weapon change!
I think they are very serious about this game, which is great, but I think most of the time developers are serious about the games they're making. Except maybe when they're cheapo liscenced titles. My point is, without the manpower and talent, it doesn't matter. Luckily I think Ubisoft has the manpower, and some of it's employees have the talent, so I still have high hopes for Red Steel.
Post by: Kairon on July 07, 2006, 01:23:01 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on July 07, 2006, 01:37:58 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 07, 2006, 07:21:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I no longer consider game length to be that important. Nintendo made too many games that could have been way more fun if they weren't watered-down to make them longer this generation. If the game is properly fun, then it will be worth playing over and over anyway.
I know what you mean, even though I do prefer Wind Waker over OOT (yes you can shoot me for that opinion) it was a perfect example of watering down (no pun intended) to make it longer during the triforce scavenger hunt.
Post by: MaryJane on July 10, 2006, 05:46:21 PM
they look rather gorgeous to me.
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 05:55:40 PM
This is what I call style, not "oh look we have characters making shadows on themselves" but things that are less technical but much more sublime.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: bustin98 on July 10, 2006, 06:49:41 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 07:00:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
To me they look like artwork ... the rest of the environment just gives a sense of colored pencil.
That's.....so awesome.... *drool*
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on July 10, 2006, 07:38:56 PM
Post by: Svevan on July 10, 2006, 10:19:01 PM
Not to be pessimistic or anything, but after getting excited about the first Red Steel screens and then playing its ugly stepsister at E3, I'm not going to get hyped up for this game until I play the final product.
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 10:41:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
Let me weigh in having played the demo at E3 - the polygon counts from these screens are nearly identical to what I saw while playing the game. However, this "film-grain" look was very much absent from the playable demo, leading me to believe that they didn't just add a filter to the game, but that these are heavily modified post-capture. I wouldn't expect the game to look like that at all. Something you can't see from the screens that we did see in the demo was stiff character animation and completely static lighting (looks alright, but doesn't move or change).
Not to be pessimistic or anything, but after getting excited about the first Red Steel screens and then playing its ugly stepsister at E3, I'm not going to get hyped up for this game until I play the final product.
Or - and I'm having a rare optimistic moment here - the game has improved since E3. After all, they'd just newly ported the code to Wii from GC two weeks before E3. IGN and elsewhere have reported that work on the game continues, after all, there is an 80-odd person team working on it.
In regards to the lighting though, I meant that I appreciated how the game had this sort of garish neon nightlife look that you'd expect from Tokyo, with lighting (static or dynamic) not just brightm, but instead saturated. That sort of unnatural feel that I'd expect from a pop-culture Tokyo, that sort of je-ne-sais-quo that is an example of art, not tech, and how it can subtly build my immersion.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 11, 2006, 08:37:53 AM
That aside, I'm sure that both graphical and control improvements have been made to this game since E3.
Also, I'm far more concerned about gameplay mechanics than I am about graphics. I'm far more concerned about accurately crossing swords with Yakuza bosses than I am with how well lit he looks while doing it.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 11, 2006, 08:54:21 AM
It's hard to tell the quality of the graphics from those videos, but the gameplay seemed solid.
Post by: Aussiedude on July 17, 2006, 10:00:36 PM
Quote
...On Red Steel's multiplayer mode
In Red Steel, you'll have up to four players [in the multiplayer mode]. If they play together in split screens we can only say that the fight will not be only on screen (grins).
Source
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 18, 2006, 12:42:33 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 18, 2006, 05:47:31 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 10:06:19 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 19, 2006, 11:12:06 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 04:45:00 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2006, 04:47:50 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 06:30:29 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 20, 2006, 11:55:13 AM
For starters, Ubi took a gamble when they jumped in with both feet on the Wii: Red Steel is a fully budgeted development project and no doubt is taking up monetary resources which they could have put toward a much safer 360 FPS or Splinter Cell title.
Second, Ubi is noted as being the ONLY 3rd party who has jumped onto the Wii wagon with a brand new untested franchise.
Third, if RS does well, it would remove that stigma behind 3rd party games on Nintendo consoles and the belief that only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles.
Any way you slice it, Ubi was willing to bank a lot on Nintendo's success, something most other 3rd parties were hesitant to do or still haven't done.
Simply put, every bit of success that Ubi experiences will be one more slap in the face to all of the 3rd parties who dismissed Nintendo and their new ideas.
It's a strange way of looking at it, but I guess you might say that Ubi and I bet on the same horse.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 20, 2006, 12:15:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The more I hear about Red Steel, the more I want the game to succeed.
For starters, Ubi took a gamble when they jumped in with both feet on the Wii: Red Steel is a fully budgeted development project and no doubt is taking up monetary resources which they could have put toward a much safer 360 FPS or Splinter Cell title.
Second, Ubi is noted as being the ONLY 3rd party who has jumped onto the Wii wagon with a brand new untested franchise.
Third, if RS does well, it would remove that stigma behind 3rd party games on Nintendo consoles and the belief that only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles.
Any way you slice it, Ubi was willing to bank a lot on Nintendo's success, something most other 3rd parties were hesitant to do or still haven't done.
Simply put, every bit of success that Ubi experiences will be one more slap in the face to all of the 3rd parties who dismissed Nintendo and their new ideas.
It's a strange way of looking at it, but I guess you might say that Ubi and I bet on the same horse.
I agree 100%, if the game turns out to be good (doesn't even need to be great) then I hope it sells well. In the past couple of generations, companies have relied mainly on multiplatform games for Nintendo systems, and thus they ended up doing poorly. With Ubi's gamble, this could show that Nintendo buyers are indeed interested in 3rd parties, as long as they are good, hopefully exclusive titles. I'll admit I'm one who usually bought Nintendo only games for N64 and GC, but that was mainly because of the lack of many good exclusive titles (Harvest Moon and RE4 are one of the few 3rd parties I have purchased for GC). Anyway I am rooting for Ubisoft all the way, if they can turn out a great product that sells (which I think it will if it is a quality game) it could help solidify Wii as a top contender, maybe even number 1 since other companies will follow.
Post by: EasyCure on July 20, 2006, 03:13:18 PM
if just the controls get people talking it will have suceeded in my opinion, because everyone that isnt a nintendo fan boy would want to check it out. i think this is important because you know all of us nintendo loyalist will end up getting Prime 3, but to have a 'mature' third party game show off the controller can only be a good thing. it will show developers that games other than those made by nintendo could sell on nintendo systems. hell they might even learn that quality is the reason nintendo games sell better than third party andmight just put that type of polish on their own games. i have all faith that if red steel does well it will become a nintendo exclusive.
i bet if it does poorly they would rework the code and release it on ps3/360 just to have a new franchise to whore out on the systems people think all the good fps's are on.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 21, 2006, 11:29:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure i bet if it does poorly they would rework the code and release it on ps3/360 just to have a new franchise to whore out on the systems people think all the good fps's are on.
I am very much hoping that this is not its fate.
I'm buying RS and so is everyone else I know who is buying a Wii.
I strongly feel that MP3 and RS will offer two VERY different gameplay experiences, mainly because RS will feature an interactive storyline with possible branching paths and the like and lots of action fighting with quick reflexes and ammo conservation. MP3 will be more of a FP Adventure focusing on exploration and puzzle solving instead of outright FPS action.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 27, 2006, 08:52:59 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 27, 2006, 08:59:24 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 27, 2006, 09:16:13 AM
Those screens look like concept art IN MOTION rather than your usual bumpy-mapped plastic people gameplay! Is it possible ubi's taking an artistic approach to graphics instead of "here's the latest gaffix engine, and here's how we textured everything to be like plastic or shiny metal even though there's not enough light in this scene and shadows are far more blackish in-game than in real-life cuz they should be cuz we say so and hey here's our dev kit you can make gaffix just like this too!"
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 27, 2006, 10:49:49 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on July 27, 2006, 10:55:43 AM
Sexy sexy, it looks like they improved the face on the sword fight opponent
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 27, 2006, 10:58:05 AM
You can actually see the bags under his eyes and he has kind of a gut now.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 27, 2006, 11:32:53 AM
And the soft shadows are a nice touch. I never liked the hard, flat shadows "borrowed" from the PC game styles. Even Kameo's shadows show up pixelated in close-range despite HD's infinite wisdom/resolution.
Post by: Ceric on July 27, 2006, 12:39:25 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 27, 2006, 12:48:34 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on July 27, 2006, 06:30:10 PM
Post by: cmoney on July 27, 2006, 06:44:54 PM
Post by: Caliban on July 27, 2006, 06:50:45 PM
Post by: Requiem on July 27, 2006, 08:19:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: cmoney
Agreed. Just stick with the interface modifications, Ubi
You realize Mario was being sarcastic right?
Oh wait, of course not. You wouldn't have agreed had you known.....
unless you were being sarcastic as well! *gasps*
Post by: Mario on July 27, 2006, 08:42:28 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 27, 2006, 09:13:30 PM
Faster than Tony Hawk.
Post by: ShyGuy on July 28, 2006, 12:05:10 AM
Post by: cmoney on July 28, 2006, 12:08:09 AM
I know all about the sales sarcasm that IS mario. Long time lurker, people. Long time long time.
Post by: Mario on July 28, 2006, 12:24:51 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 28, 2006, 02:26:18 AM
Post by: Darkheart on July 28, 2006, 03:46:48 AM
http://www.celinedion.com/
Located in the rolling text on the side is a hidden magic eye puzzle. If you cross your eyes long enough the date of the Wii will appear to you.
Source: Mtvnews
I will find the link later
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 28, 2006, 05:02:18 AM
To maintain that Japanese authenticity, of course, the soundtrack to Red Steel will feature the drunken warblings of Japanese businessmen singing bad 80s karaoke.
Post by: Darkheart on July 28, 2006, 06:00:30 AM
Quote
The team made also many researches about the occidental perception about Japan. They made two trips for that in August 05 and in March 06. In March the team's Artistic Director brought back about 7.000 pictures. The team also worked closely with our Japanese subs. And finally it made some research in the US. Two or three times it visited some Japanese quarters in the US cities in order to better understand some US perception of Japan.
Smashbrother is right they are really pouring ancient japanese history into this game. I even hear a giant enemy crab might be running the japanese mafia.
All joking aside, 7,000 reference pictures and several trips to japan is not cheap to do, they want this game to look and feel authentic. This game is supposed to be made in such a way that at the end of the Wii's life we should look at this game and still be amazed at how it pioneered gun and sword games. Afterall, this will be the first game to use a FPSword with the Wii.
Post by: Requiem on July 28, 2006, 06:51:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
... hey mate, Red Steel has nothing to do with DS's failure to capture the Japanese market! I wasn't being sarcastic. I was one of the few really impressed with what I saw at E3, and it looks to be going in a different direction since then.
Wow....really?
You don't like the art style now? It's basically the same except now it's more surreal like. Which is great! I'd rather see a more artistic approach rather than a realistic approach -- wouldn't you agree?
As for the sound track -- it would be really cool if they kept it reeaaaaaalllllllll traditional. I'm talking about tribal drums and singing gieshas. If they keep it traditional, it'll contrast the neo-Tokyo art style and theme effortlessly while still coming off as authentic.
Post by: Mario on July 28, 2006, 07:29:04 AM
Actually, i'm getting a sort of Perfect Dark type of vibe from the new game screenshots, which could be a good thing. Still really hyped for it!
Post by: Requiem on July 28, 2006, 07:50:29 AM
So if you really wanted to compare, you'd have to compare this to this.
And although the new screen has a more realistic model, the background remains in the same style (which is great because the backgrounds are great).
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 28, 2006, 11:42:02 AM
I am still curious to see what the new style looks like in MOTION, as it could wind up making the game look much more like a realistic FPS than the old shiny, backlit style which Ubi always did.
Post by: Aussiedude on July 29, 2006, 10:38:46 PM
Source
Post by: Ceric on July 30, 2006, 04:33:48 AM
Edit: On farther thought if Ubisoft's launch game do well they could make some of that up consulting for other companies helping with their Wii games.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on July 30, 2006, 06:58:20 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 30, 2006, 09:15:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
all I know is that im going to buy this game unless it really, really blows. I want Ubi and other 3rd parties to see that Wii fans want awesome FPS's, and as long as it's somewhat decent they can have my money.
I feel the same, but I think the game will be great.
Ubi explained how they came to developing this game and it sounds like they poured a great deal of heart and imagination into it, as they expressed many times that they were actually excited to create it.
Under those circumstances, I've never seen a game come out awful, usually just the opposite.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 30, 2006, 11:17:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
all I know is that im going to buy this game unless it really, really blows. I want Ubi and other 3rd parties to see that Wii fans want awesome FPS's, and as long as it's somewhat decent they can have my money.
I feel the same, but I think the game will be great.
Ubi explained how they came to developing this game and it sounds like they poured a great deal of heart and imagination into it, as they expressed many times that they were actually excited to create it.
Under those circumstances, I've never seen a game come out awful, usually just the opposite.
Who would have thought that Ubisoft, of all developers, would be a potential quality ally when it comes to 3rd party games!
Post by: Requiem on July 30, 2006, 11:35:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
all I know is that im going to buy this game unless it really, really blows. I want Ubi and other 3rd parties to see that Wii fans want awesome FPS's, and as long as it's somewhat decent they can have my money.
I would love to see a sequel. Cuz, you know.......they'll have all the glitches and kinks worked out by then...
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 30, 2006, 07:31:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution Who would have thought that Ubisoft, of all developers, would be a potential quality ally when it comes to 3rd party games!
I said the same thing in a thread about the "Wii paradox" and how unlikely allies like Square and Ubi are showing up, companies which tend to operate by releasing tons of sequels which aren't very original, and yet they're embracing the Wii,.
Meanwhile, "creative" devs like Hideo Kojima and devs like Lucas Arts aren't doing much of anything for it despite the fact that legions of gamers could think of ideas for their franchises, easily.
It's weird like that.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 31, 2006, 07:58:39 AM
I'm going to throw this out there, without thinking too much about it, but I'll bet you'll find a lot more new franchises came out of Playstation and Nintendo 64 than the current generation of home consoles, and I think that's partially because they had this same, "we need new games to sell a new type of gaming" feel to them.
Post by: Requiem on July 31, 2006, 08:15:14 AM
Your right in the way that most videogamers will give new and emerging franchises a chance simply because of their good use of the wiimote.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 31, 2006, 08:55:08 AM
But yeah, there were many instances where the concept of 3D needed to be brought into the light and properly used. The same is true with the Wiimote, and it's a direction where Sony and MS aren't going.
How can making the graphics sharper or more realistic introduce new franchises which couldn't function with slightly blurrier graphics?
Post by: MaryJane on August 02, 2006, 03:28:57 PM
Gamecube 1.5? Maybe, but it still looks pretty sweet to me.
Post by: Requiem on August 02, 2006, 05:18:30 PM
That dude's face in the first pic is HALARIOUS!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 03, 2006, 08:00:28 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 17, 2006, 08:19:08 PM
http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/imgs_1.html
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 17, 2006, 09:02:44 PM
*Shoots glass on table, nothing happens*
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 17, 2006, 09:18:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
Some really nice screens there, hard to tell if any of them are real or not coming from UbiSoft though. Should be an ace game come launch, hope the environment can take a beating.
*Shoots glass on table, nothing happens*
Lol, well personally I hope when you shoot a person something happens
. If it gets that down I consider everything else to be a bonus hehe
Post by: couchmonkey on August 23, 2006, 03:20:28 AM
Fairly neat looking, and I really liked the music, I hope the game soundtrack is something like that...but something about Red Steel trailers makes all the guys playing the game look like psychopaths.
Post by: Ceric on August 23, 2006, 04:16:14 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on August 23, 2006, 05:21:26 AM
Still, what I saw of the game looked pretty nice. I like the art direction, and in motion the game seems a little more chaotic than some screenshots. There must be three or four screenshots out there where all the characters on screen are in the exact same "I shoot you now!" pose.
Post by: EasyCure on August 23, 2006, 06:31:34 AM
the rest however, sucked. he looked even more cynical then the original guy in the trailer, and thos over the shoulder shots where his hands blocked the screen where annoying. also is it me or is that grainy film effect being way too overused?? i wasnt expecting much in terms of graphics for red steel or any of the wii games to be honest, but this new vid makes the game look like ass. the vids of the e3 build looked better in my opinion. i hope it was just the quality of the video or something.
also, they need to have more video of multiple enemies on screen and how easy it is to off each of them, and without using the "freeze shot" thing. i know the guy in the video isnt really playing the thing but they should have shown atleast two enemies standing a few feet apart and the cursor moving from one guys head to the other, instead we got maybe two shots fired from the pistol and a barrage from the oozie. i want to see what it will be like when you master the game and only have a few shots to take out all the enemies in a room. remember by the end of the game you'll only be getting pistols and have fewer shots to make, so cant just show sloppy shooting from an automatic weapon.
Post by: WalkingTheCow on August 23, 2006, 09:34:03 AM
As for the vid, same old stuff. Let's see a new area.
Post by: Caliban on August 23, 2006, 04:58:42 PM
Also new artwork on IGN: http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/imgs_1.html
Both the pics and artwork are stunning, obviously they aren't PS3/X360 stunning, nevertheless just stunning.
Post by: eljefe on August 24, 2006, 06:15:34 AM
the screens are from the updated redsteel website
go to screensshots
look at pics 10-16
Straight from ubisoft to your brain...Wii has the CAPABILITY to produce lovely graphics. Will developers make use of the power? Who really cares. But, if they can get THOSE graphics out of Wii at LAUNCH other developers have no "overclock'd GC" excuse if they have weak graphics.
Post by: eljefe on August 25, 2006, 02:37:30 PM
The "tokyo streets" vid is only streaming right now, but I recommend that over the "Katana" scene we've seen before.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 27, 2006, 02:12:17 PM
——————————————————————————–
Mordrag (thats me): Hi, in your interview with ubisoft you could ask how the swordfighting is going to work now, because it was announced to be redesigned. So that the swordmoves aren’t predetermined any more but are converted 1:1.
N-LAN: That’s the case indeed. A developer has confirmed that the control scheme will be completely redesigned so that the controller moves are converted into the game precisely. Besides the controller sensitivity will be completely adjustable in the final version. And the graphics were improved very well since E3, now the atmosphere is much more darklier and thrilling. But that’s not all, there will be even more improvements on the graphics side.
----------------------------------------------------------------
So it looks like we will be having free control over the sword and the graphics have been really improved. This seems to indicate that even the LGC demo was not their newest build (the sword still looked to be predetermined) and the graphics still weren't up to snuff.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 27, 2006, 02:51:03 PM
Post by: Caliban on August 27, 2006, 03:29:17 PM
Post by: Jensen on August 27, 2006, 05:49:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
So it looks like we will be having free control over the sword and the graphics have been really improved. This seems to indicate that even the LGC demo was not their newest build (the sword still looked to be predetermined) and the graphics still weren't up to snuff.
There can't be free control, because the controller doesn't sense enough information to know its precise location in 3d space. It may be more "analog" than before, though.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 27, 2006, 05:56:28 PM
MAYBE
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 27, 2006, 09:55:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JensenQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
So it looks like we will be having free control over the sword and the graphics have been really improved. This seems to indicate that even the LGC demo was not their newest build (the sword still looked to be predetermined) and the graphics still weren't up to snuff.
There can't be free control, because the controller doesn't sense enough information to know its precise location in 3d space. It may be more "analog" than before, though.
Yeah but if that interview is to be believed (it looks like it is legitimate) they said it has 1:1 control. I do remember hearing that 1:1 is possible but the biggest concern is how the AI will respond to it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 27, 2006, 11:29:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I don't know about you guys, but I still think that the light coming through the bullet holes in the paper door looks f**king amazing.
I agree some scenes look gorgeous, and I think when the game comes out it will be little details like that, that make it a visual treat. This game will live or die on neat little things like that along with its artistic creativity. My only hope is that they get rid of that nasty looking angelesque aura going on with some guys that make them look pasted on the screen.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 28, 2006, 05:56:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jensen
There can't be free control, because the controller doesn't sense enough information to know its precise location in 3d space. It may be more "analog" than before, though.
That amount of information isn't required for such things. It doesn't need to know the controller moves from point A to point B to point C. It needs to know the controller follows vector A, then vector B, then vector C. My guess is the character will return the sword to a rest position automatically, so all the player has to do is tell him which way to swing, not where to swing.
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about, but from what I know of the Wii controller it CAN sense 3D position by interpretting data from from multiple sensors. It'd be tough to program, I'm sure, but if the controller is calibrated in a certain position, every time it is moved, tilited, or turned in any direction either the sensor or accellerometers will pick up the speed, length of time, and direction travelled, and therefore can calculate the distance travelled in any direction. If it knows the distance and direction travelled from the calibration point, it knows exactly where the controller is in 3D space.
MAYBE
I'm afraid that won't work because the accelerometers have an upper limit when it comes to measuring g-forces. From what I read when the supplier made its official announcement, the limit is about 2 gs, which normal human activity exceeds several times a day. The accelerometer could be used to figure out the direction and speed of the controller's movement, but if it accelerated too much, the accelerometer's readings would be incorrect, and therefore the calculations of speed and distance would be incorrect, and therefore the controller would be out of sync with its physical surroundings. I know there's some speculation about using the positions of the infrared lights to work out the exact distance to the bar, but I find that implausible. It would only solve the problem in one dimension, anyway.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 28, 2006, 08:06:50 AM
So far the only kind of swordplay we've seen is SLASH. BLOCK. SLASH. BLOCK. which kinda disappoints me.
I would rather see the dagger DISCARDED and all blocking handled with the katana as one should really learn. I want to see blocks achieved by minimal movements as well, such as raising & tilting the katana toward either shoulder to block diagonal attacks to your neck.
SLASH. BLOCK. SLASH. BLOCK. SLASH. BLOCK. C'mon, that's way easier than DK Jungle Beat AND Mike Tyson's Punch Out.
If anything the dagger should be used to stab your opponent for a dirty kill when you're swords are locked together and you're face-to-face.
Or maybe you realize you suck and you kill yourself as a means of restarting the level.
Then Mr. Miyagi laughs at you.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 28, 2006, 09:06:23 AM
I think this is great. Instead of being killed when your health is completely depleted, you commit Sepukka (sp).
That would totally rule.
Post by: IceCold on August 30, 2006, 12:05:32 AM
Quote
In Red Steel there will be no loading times at all because of smart streaming techniques. How it’s handled in other Wii games we can’t say at the moment. But it’s a fact that Mario Strikers Charged will have loading times similar to the Gamecube version of the game. We were not told if that will be changed in the future. But we’re sure that it will work like on the Gamecube. And as you know the loading times on Gamecube - if they have existed at all - actually were not a big deal.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 30, 2006, 05:26:01 AM
Post by: oohhboy on August 30, 2006, 05:41:04 AM
And yes I was insane enough to complete that game.
Post by: bustin98 on August 30, 2006, 05:51:21 AM
Thanks for the memories. Now let the door hit you on your way out.
Post by: couchmonkey on August 30, 2006, 06:25:03 AM
Thanks for the load time correction. I have played some Cube games with bad load times...EA tends to be the biggest offender.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 30, 2006, 09:30:20 AM
QuoteI agree 100%, I even thought it was a pretty decent game, but I could never finish it cause I couldn't wait for the damn game to load. You could seriously go make a sandwich during a reload of the exact same level that is already in memory. The load times on this game are completely unnacceptable.
Originally posted by: bustin98
Man, I f-n hated playing through Turok Evo. I finally just put in a cheat to walk through the game to the finish. Every time you die, you have to wait and wait and wait. . . I felt kinda betrayed by the game. I supported the series through its N64 life and this pile of stink is what I get in return. Now we don't even get to see the next one on Wii.
Thanks for the memories. Now let the door hit you on your way out.
Post by: Smoke39 on August 30, 2006, 11:49:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
Now we don't even get to see the next one on Wii.
From what I've read of the next one, it's gonna be stupid anyway. They completely threw out nearly everything about Turok, and now it sounds like a generic space marine shooter only with dinosaurs.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 30, 2006, 12:45:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
Now we don't even get to see the next one on Wii.
From what I've read of the next one, it's gonna be stupid anyway. They completely threw out nearly everything about Turok, and now it sounds like a generic space marine shooter only with dinosaurs.
I'll probaly pick up the 360 one since I enjoy the series but I still think the first was the best. It had a perfect mix between dinos, mutants and people, the others started getting too far from the dinos.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 30, 2006, 01:07:05 PM
I don't want a new game until they bring Dinosaurs completely into the fore front of the series, and having the game feel like you are being hunted as much as the hunter.
I would say a descent story would be that something has been causing the animals to become more aggressive, savage, and worse more intelligent. They are hunting in packs to take down prey, and are even forming interspecial packs for greater strength in numbers.
Turok must discover what is behind these mutations and stop it before, the dinosaurs begin to take over the land.
You start fighting dinosaurs, as the levels progress the dinosaurs get smarter. Then we are introduced to dinosaurs with cerebral weaponry attached to them. (Weapons which can be activated by their thoughts) Who would do this why?
Finally this story would allow you fight several different types of dinosaurs at the same time and it make sense. Think about it. How would you take out a herd of Triceratops? What if they had 6-10 Raptors scotting the area protecting them?
Since this game will not be made, I will not buy another Turok game.
Post by: Kairon on August 30, 2006, 01:10:11 PM
Tyrannosaurs in F-14s!
Thank you Bill Watterson!
OH! I finally found the rules, lol. It kept confusing me when it was acting like I was signing up for the first time... but anyways, I've finally read the rules now... and I'm very confused. I suspect that I'm still breaking them, but I don't know how. /scared
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smoke39 on August 30, 2006, 01:32:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
They ruined the Turok series after the first game.
I thought Rage Wars was a pretty good multiplayer game, albeit more like Turok 2 in style. Multiplayer in a Turok 1 jungle would be cool. Co-op through Turok 1 would be cool. I want more co-op games!
What's this thread really about again?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 30, 2006, 01:50:00 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 30, 2006, 02:09:15 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on September 07, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
This is the newer art style.
The sword fight seems to still be predetermined moves, but all in all, it looks good.
Post by: couchmonkey on September 07, 2006, 11:20:28 AM
I did see a demo on IGN lately, and I thought it was looking pretty good.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 14, 2006, 02:30:51 PM
Post by: Kairon on September 19, 2006, 04:24:28 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smoke39 on September 19, 2006, 05:10:58 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on September 19, 2006, 06:07:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I'd rather BE a ninja than fight them.
Why not have both?
Post by: Smoke39 on September 19, 2006, 06:12:41 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 19, 2006, 07:19:12 PM
Quoteyou have the ULTIMATE samurai as your avatar and you'd rather be a ninja??
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I'd rather BE a ninja than fight them.
oO
Post by: Caliban on September 19, 2006, 08:48:53 PM
On topic, I hope multiplayer will have at least the option of selecting several types of characters: ninjas, yakuza, geisha, etc.
Post by: Smoke39 on September 19, 2006, 09:35:40 PM
Post by: Deguello on September 20, 2006, 02:35:36 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on September 20, 2006, 05:03:09 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on September 20, 2006, 05:57:13 AM
ShyGuy: either that, or smaller gestures will merely allow you to hit the edge of the screen to initiate the turning sooner. :/
Post by: Athrun Zala on September 20, 2006, 07:51:26 AM
QuoteKenshin is still a samurai, and that fact is easily seen in the Kyoto arc
Originally posted by: Caliban
Kenshin isn't a samurai, Yahiko could be considered a samurai because of his father being one, but fortunately kenshin isn't one.
Quotedo you KNOW what rurouni means?
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Yeah, there's a reason they call him a rurouni and not a samurai. Duh. Besides, Kenshin's my avie because he's hot, not because he's a swordsman. X3
Post by: Smoke39 on September 20, 2006, 08:35:19 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 28, 2006, 04:45:53 PM
Just...WOW...That rain shot is just amazing...
Post by: Caliban on September 28, 2006, 05:26:16 PM
Post by: Jin-X on September 29, 2006, 10:49:15 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 29, 2006, 11:13:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jin-X
Perhaps too good...They look way better than what they've shown before (touched up perhaps?).
I'm not sure, they could easily represent what the final build of the game is. Even the first screens of red Steel ended up becoming almost identical to what we are seeing now.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 29, 2006, 11:15:27 AM
They simply used neat graffikal effects to provide great artsy effects, and that goes beyond the "cheap" method of adding bumpy maps simply because the effect is available to you.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on September 29, 2006, 11:24:20 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on September 29, 2006, 11:38:19 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 11, 2006, 10:47:23 AM
Sounds like it'll be an absolute blast...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 11, 2006, 11:12:17 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 11, 2006, 11:18:56 AM
I'm guessing that you have to hold the speaker to your ear so other players won't hear it as you get your mission.
The one thing I'd like to hear more (or something) about is online play...
Post by: Terranigma Freak on October 11, 2006, 11:54:07 AM
Four more incredible new videos from JeuxFrance!!!!
Post by: Requiem on October 11, 2006, 03:29:52 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 11, 2006, 04:53:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Who else thinks that the sword fighting should be one hit kill?
First generation sword fighting games: likely not precise enough to handle such a system.
My guess would be that we'll see games which have enough precision to do this in the 3rd or 4th generation of Wii games.
This is, after all, a completely new control scheme. How long did it take developers to really master the analogue stick and use it to its full potential?
It'll likely take longer for the Wiimote to be explored to its full potential.
Post by: wandering on October 12, 2006, 08:29:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
1-877-773-7855
Call and listen, its just a recording.
I called. Pretty funny, though it doesn't really make sense out of context. (Oh, here's pages one and two.)
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 12, 2006, 01:57:19 PM
I'm actually not a fan of these ads. I think there are better ways to convey the cool edge the game will have going for it.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on October 12, 2006, 02:14:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Hmm, which character is the sensei a rip off of? I'm sure I've seen him somewhere...
You are thinking of Pai Mei, the Bride's master from the Kill Bill movies (although Pai Mei himself is a rip of all the stereotypical wise sensei characters).
About the ads, on one hand, I like them. I admire the creativity put into them (I really liked the phone number one. Clever "I love bees" like markting) . On the other, they need more direct ads (like the trailers Ubi has put out).
A direct ad has a higher chance of attracting people than a mysterious, creative ad.
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 12, 2006, 04:26:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64 You are thinking of Pai Mei, the Bride's master from the Kill Bill movies (although Pai Mei himself is a rip of all the stereotypical wise sensei characters).
YES!
At first, I was thinking of Fu Man Shu and Lo Pan, but neither of them had that grey hair.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 12, 2006, 04:59:52 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 12, 2006, 05:05:48 PM
But thank you for explaining the original reference.
Post by: IceCold on October 13, 2006, 09:25:38 PM
Post by: Arbok on October 13, 2006, 11:03:37 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 13, 2006, 11:28:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Wow, not used to that kind of honest preview reflection from the major game news sites... sounds a little mixed, but mostly positive. It has secured itself as a launch purchase title from me, though.
It really appears to me that Red Steel is one of those games where you have to get used to the control scheme. It has its own positives and negatives like the mouse and joypad.
Post by: Smoke39 on October 13, 2006, 11:44:32 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 13, 2006, 11:46:02 PM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on October 14, 2006, 01:33:45 AM
Decent reviews and I'll pick it up as soon as possible.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 14, 2006, 01:35:49 AM
I KNEW UBI WAS GOING TO COMPLETELY FORK SOMETHING UP
Post by: 18 Days on October 14, 2006, 01:41:20 AM
Post by: SixthAngel on October 17, 2006, 03:29:03 PM
Post by: Arbok on October 17, 2006, 03:48:36 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 17, 2006, 09:14:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
The ugliest thing about the game is the gun-hand tilts WAY FAR BACK at unnatural aiming angles. When aiming, it's shouldn't be the hand that pivots about the wrist, it's the forearm or whole arm pivoting about the player's origin of vision.
I KNEW UBI WAS GOING TO COMPLETELY FORK SOMETHING UP
As we all know PC FPSs are super realistic, especially turning on a dime
. Really if this is the worse thing wrong with the game I'll be quite happy .
Post by: Smoke39 on October 17, 2006, 10:00:34 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 17, 2006, 10:01:27 PM
Still not sure if the player is just an idiot with the swordfights or not, though...
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
The "S" in "FPS" stands for "shooter," not "shoot."
Nitpicking is bad for the soul. :P Seriously, this guy I knew used to find reasons to hate everything and everyone, little stupid reasons. He died at 28. Cause of death: unknown.
Unknown to medical science, but I know what killed him...
Post by: Smoke39 on October 17, 2006, 10:08:25 PM
And I don't hate VGrevolution, in spite of my nitpicking.
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 17, 2006, 10:14:26 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 17, 2006, 10:21:53 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on October 17, 2006, 10:26:43 PM
Smash: What? What about Ian?
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 17, 2006, 10:35:23 PM
He'll come around after Nintendo sells through all 4 million Wiis before the year is out, though.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 18, 2006, 12:17:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The man who died from nitpicking. If that's the case, poor Ian's headed to an early grave.
He'll come around after Nintendo sells through all 4 million Wiis before the year is out, though.
That would be truly stunning if Nintendo sold 4 million Wii's before the end of the year, that would give them a HUGE head start on PS3 because I doubt we'll be seeing that many PS3s for quite awhile (maybe even worse than Xbox 360's console drought). IN regards to Red STeel, I really can't wait to play this game and I am keeping an open mind about the controls. I dunno but to me it has potential to be more realistic when it comes to turning than most FPSs, and could be a very unique experience since the gameplay will hopefully be built around it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 18, 2006, 07:40:01 AM
As for the sales, like I've said in other threads, Toys R Us predicted the Furby and Tickle Me Elmo as the hot selling xmas toys of their respective years.
Right now, guess which "toy" tops TRU's chart of hot toys of the season? That's right.
"Toy retailer Toys "R" Us has unveiled its "hot toy" list for the upcoming holiday season, and this year it includes a video game console for the first time—Nintendo Co. Ltd.'s Wii."
Post by: WuTangTurtle on October 26, 2006, 01:24:27 PM
Multiplayer vids are up! Enjoy!
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 26, 2006, 01:39:57 PM
Post by: zakkiel on October 26, 2006, 02:27:49 PM
Also, it seems the Wii can tell when you hide behind furniture.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 26, 2006, 03:30:11 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 26, 2006, 03:59:10 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on October 26, 2006, 06:46:07 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on October 26, 2006, 07:27:41 PM
Post by: wandering on October 26, 2006, 08:00:37 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 26, 2006, 08:16:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
this video PALES in comparison to the INCREDIBLY FUN PS3 basketball-multiplayer-game-and-photo-thingy ad
Lol even though I wasn't impressed with the multiplayer footage, you have a great point there
. I'm not going to judge it too harshly since we still don't know much about it besides this lame video and the scraps of information.
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 26, 2006, 08:17:52 PM
The experience does look pretty standard, but that is ok, since if it plays well that is all that matters.
I wish we had some journalists playing the multiplayer though, because I want to know if the experience is good...and not having any information worries me.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 26, 2006, 08:31:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Interesting that the video didn't show any sword fighting. I would figure that would be definately in the game...and a huge selling point for the multiplayer.
The experience does look pretty standard, but that is ok, since if it plays well that is all that matters.
I wish we had some journalists playing the multiplayer though, because I want to know if the experience is good...and not having any information worries me.
I understand your concerns too, and even though I am trying to keep an open mind I think it could be lacking in this department. If it does, I completely understand too since they seemed focused on a great single player experience.
Post by: WuTangTurtle on October 26, 2006, 09:15:21 PM
Post by: Edfishy on October 26, 2006, 10:06:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShaolinKilla
Don't go in expecting Perfect Dark multiplayer options...
You know it's funny too, I had thought that after Perfect Dark set the standards for a four player FPS, all FPS games would use its amazingly well crafted menu, interface, and plethera of options as an example. Unfortunately though all we consistantly see are sloppy menu interfaces and a set of static options in almost every FPS game since.
In regards to the Red Steel video, it really cracked me up, especially the part Zakkiel mentioned about the guy jumping behind the furniture. The multiplayer is really reminding me of "Agent Under Fire" and "GoldenEye: Rogue Agent" for the GameCube, which isn't a good sign. Still worth a rent though, I can't wait to hide from my siblings behind the couch while I fire my 1337 rocket of death at them. They'll neeeeever see it coming.
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 27, 2006, 03:05:13 AM
EdFishy, I couldn't agree more on this point. Perfect Dark really set the standard for what I expect in a shooter's multiplayer mode, and since then noone has even come close to touching what Perfect Dark had. Hell, not even Perfect Dark 0 touched the awesomeness of the original Perfect Dark's multiplayer modes.
As far as Red Steel's multiplayer goes, I honestly couldn't care less. I am buying this game for the single player experience. I am hoping they add some sort of incentive for replayability in that mode. I always loved going back in Perfect Dark and Goldeneye and perfecting each mission (I beat both 100% unlocking all cheats and levels), hopefully Red Steel has some sort of incentive like these had.
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 27, 2006, 04:52:53 AM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on October 27, 2006, 09:53:22 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 27, 2006, 09:58:59 AM
Post by: zakkiel on October 27, 2006, 04:53:21 PM
QuoteI honestly like TS2 better than PD. The pick-up-and-play value is much higher. Setting up a PD match was a lot of work. Plus, the SP was crap.
i think the only fps that comes close is TimeSplitters but even they didn't include everything that PD had, and yes i do know the dev was comprised of mainly ex Rare developers.
Post by: Smoke39 on October 27, 2006, 04:58:30 PM
Post by: Edfishy on October 27, 2006, 06:27:33 PM
Quote
I've never liked multiplayer FPSes on consoles. In the battle of the stick vs. the mouse, there's just no contest.
That's true, but try setting up four computers on a LAN and actually get everyone to connect to the hosted game in less time than it takes to start a splitscreen match in GoldenEye 64.
PC first person shooters are for when you're really trying to prove your skills, but for when you want to just kick back and have a few laughs, console is king.
As for the framerate issue, I'm praying to God that the Virtual Console will support higher resolutions and a locked 30fps for every game. Perfect Dark remains my most favorite FPS of all time (my siblings and I still play it occasionally), but that framerate is at times intolerable.
Post by: Smash_Brother on October 27, 2006, 07:14:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Edfishy That's true, but try setting up four computers on a LAN and actually get everyone to connect to the hosted game in less time than it takes to start a splitscreen match in GoldenEye 64.
Once all of the computers have UT2K4 installed on them, it happens rather quickly.
I'm just so not a fan of using an analogue stick to move an aiming reticle around that I'd rather wait for UT maps to load anyway.
Post by: Svevan on November 11, 2006, 01:04:22 PM
Post by: Caliban on November 11, 2006, 02:28:32 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on November 11, 2006, 02:30:32 PM
Post by: Caliban on November 11, 2006, 02:35:01 PM
I want to see other commercials though, I want the Wii to bombard the mainstream public like they never have before.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on November 11, 2006, 06:20:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: zakkiel
I honestly like TS2 better than PD. The pick-up-and-play value is much higher. Setting up a PD match was a lot of work. Plus, the SP was crap.
Combat Simulator>Quick Start>Match
Clearly you and I are thinking of two different TS2s and two different PDs, because TS2 had every bit as many options as PD did.
Post by: wandering on November 11, 2006, 06:30:23 PM
Why is that guy wearing a large, western-style towel in the bath? UNREALISTIC.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 11, 2006, 08:16:20 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on November 11, 2006, 08:17:37 PM
I wish these screens had witty captions under them, those are the best part.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 11, 2006, 09:11:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Why is that guy wearing a large, western-style towel in the bath? UNREALISTIC.
Cause the alternative is him standing there buck naked and the game is rated T?
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 12, 2006, 10:44:55 AM
I'm sorry but having Zelda on launch day is automatic win. F U EGM.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 12, 2006, 10:53:54 AM
Post by: Svevan on November 12, 2006, 12:02:52 PM
ShyGuy, I've added dumb (not witty) captions to the Red Steel pics. For you.
Love,
Me
(Call me)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 12, 2006, 12:31:57 PM
Time Splitters 2 can take awhile to set up a good game also. I think it is about the same amount of time. I never thought that Perfect Dark took that long really.
Post by: IceCold on November 12, 2006, 06:03:26 PM
Post by: wandering on November 12, 2006, 06:11:22 PM
Quote
That tiny towel is so inaccurate.
ahaha.
Post by: ShyGuy on November 12, 2006, 07:21:22 PM
Post by: Svevan on November 12, 2006, 07:41:11 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on November 12, 2006, 07:57:41 PM
Hahaha.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 12, 2006, 08:10:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Thanks Evan, but I'm not a Japanese Wino.
If you sing karaoke, you're half way there.
Post by: attackslug on November 18, 2006, 01:41:00 AM
Post by: trip1eX on November 18, 2006, 02:09:47 AM
Many of his complaints don't bug me. Graphics, no blood, forced sword battles, dialouge & story, no difficulty level, multiplayer is meh, ....
Story and Dialouge might bug if I can't skip it, but for the most part I've never found vidgame stories any good anyway.
He doesn't talk alot about how gun combat is or throwing nades or doesn't go much into detail about the controls as far as turning and aiming goes.
Still 5.5 gives me pause. I'll have to read another review or two.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on November 18, 2006, 02:23:14 AM
Post by: Jin-X on November 18, 2006, 04:06:22 AM
Can anybody confirm that they were exhibiting anti-Wii bias for months now? Or is that just fanboy ramblings? Because right now it kinda looks like option A.
Post by: SixthAngel on November 18, 2006, 04:35:56 AM
Reading other reviews it seems like the biggest problem with the game is bad AI, which is unfortunate. The controls seems to have been nailed but this could drag the single player down. Since I already own it I'll find out tomorrow.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 18, 2006, 05:45:37 AM
Geist got A LOT of flak because the engine was too slow and the aiming was clunky. But in the end the game turned out to be really fun and solid. True, the game WAS broken in places, but it wasn't bad enough that it ruined the entire game.
Hell, even the graphics were ragged because of quality (one thing everyone is criticizing about Red Steel).
I have the feeling that to some gamers the game will be rock solid, despite what the overall reviews say.
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 06:21:38 AM
Yet again someone TOTALLY KILLS my Red Steel hype with a Geist comparison!
raaargh
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 18, 2006, 06:27:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
ARGH! PAP64!
Yet again someone TOTALLY KILLS my Red Steel hype with a Geist comparison!
raaargh
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
ARGH! KAIRON!
Just because I mentioned that RS might be treated like Geist it doesn't mean the game WILL PLAY EXACTLY LIKE GEIST. Geist had its unique strengths and weaknesses, and I'm sure RS will have its own strengths and weaknesses.
I never said that the games are EXACTLY alike, I said that RS could end up being a solid but overly criticized shooter that ends up getting a cult following.
Just why do you hate Geist so much? I played the game and I agree the game is FAR from perfect, but me and my nephew had a blast playing through it.
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 06:44:20 AM
I didn't care about the graphics, I didn't worry about the controls. I just felt that the game flow and game design wasn't streamlined AT ALL.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: zakkiel on November 18, 2006, 07:08:20 AM
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 07:13:41 AM
I say that if we just expect Red Steel to be a straightforward 1-player FPS, with occasional timing-based sword-fight battles and wii-pointer aiming, then we'll be onh the right track. Oh, and I've also heard of one or two fugly, but not game destroying graphical glitches.
But seriously, after watching some video previews of this game in action, it looks so different from your everyday walk-in-the-park FPS experience that even if it's quality is mediocre, it's experience won't be.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 07:40:00 AM
Read it here!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 18, 2006, 07:44:03 AM
WHAT HAPPENED TO GREG KASAVIN?
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 07:52:02 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 18, 2006, 09:35:53 AM
Post by: Ghisy on November 18, 2006, 09:49:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Maybe I'm missing something, but why are the visuals of Red Steel attacked so much?
Probably because they're comparing them to 360 or PS3 "standards", which is really stupid IMO.
Most people still don't understand the Wii concept, oh well, too bad for them!
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 09:54:14 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Magik on November 18, 2006, 12:56:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GhisyQuote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Maybe I'm missing something, but why are the visuals of Red Steel attacked so much?
Probably because they're comparing them to 360 or PS3 "standards", which is really stupid IMO.
Most people still don't understand the Wii concept, oh well, too bad for them!
I think its more of people comparing Red Steel's visuals to that of Resident Evil 4 or Zelda than to 360/PS3 standards.
A couple more Red Steel reviews have surfaced as well. 5/10 from EDGE and 5/10 from 1up.
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 01:13:00 PM
Personally, I find that my feelings are bouyed by watching video of the game in action. Exciting!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 01:18:52 PM
1Up gives Red Steel an [edit]SEE BELOW[/edit]
Both scores are much higher than I expected, especially the 1up score.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Magik on November 18, 2006, 01:20:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
ComputerAndVideogames gives Red Steel an 8.0.
1Up gives Red Steel an 8.5.
Both scores are much higher than I expected, especially the 1up score.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Uh, the 1up score is 5 out of 10.
Post by: Kairon on November 18, 2006, 01:22:03 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smoke39 on November 18, 2006, 01:25:32 PM
edit: lol
Post by: Jin-X on November 18, 2006, 01:58:55 PM
Here's 1up:
Quote
Wii games might not push as many polygons as Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 games, but we do know that they don't have to look this bad. Normally I wouldn't complain, but at this year's Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3), Ubisoft showed off a snazzy trailer that it promised was actual gameplay footage. That was clearly not the case -- the game doesn't look anything like that infamous target video. It looks worse...a lot worse.
Graphics alone wouldn't matter that much, but I actually had a hard time getting through the game because of the poor visuals. For example, a large number of levels require you to take out sneaky snipers who position themselves on ledges far from your sight -- pretty common, sure -- but when it comes time to return the fire, the textures for the snipers are so bad that only way to find them is to let them shoot you (and hope you don't die) and then trace the fire back to where they are hiding. Even then half the time I couldn't find the enemy and had to rely on my pointer turning red to signify I finally found the source of my frustration.
Here's CVG:
Quote
Even with technical limitations of the Wii relative to it's high-def competitors, Red Steel looks great, particularly the levels set in Tokyo. Continuing the oriental theme, the interiors are impressively well decorated with the minor details that bring an environment to life; everyday household objects scattered around rooms, wall decorations, lamps, cupboards, boxes, pot plants and countless other details are everywhere you look.
Some of the textures look a bit 'GameCube', but you can forgive that when the Wii's extra grunt has been put to use for gorgeous beam lighting shining through windows, air vents and even bullet holes, slick reflective floors and stunning warping effects used for heat haze or corrugated glass.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 18, 2006, 02:34:06 PM
Both games got notoriously harsh reviews for issues that can be forgiven or ignored, and I think Red Steel is heading down that path.
I mean, Game Informer's review of Chibi Robo was BAD. It got to the point where they declared the game as being the perfect punishment for children and kept saying it was nothing but than a chore simulator, while in reality the game is a story based game in which completion of missions rewards the players with unique characters and stories as well as an amazing sense of discovery and fun.
I wanna see more reviews, as well as user feedback (S_B if you can hear this, we need your opinion ASAP!) before I put my claim in stone.
Post by: trip1eX on November 18, 2006, 04:16:20 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on November 18, 2006, 04:21:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I mean, Game Informer's review of Chibi Robo was BAD. .
I just got the new free GI today when you join gamestop and the magazine has probably one page about Nintendo, much less the Wii, and it has reviews of all the new ps3 games. The new name should be the playstation and xbox magazine. They have ignored the Wii 100%, they even have an article that says "could the xbox 360 and ps3 be the last great consoles?" like the Wii is nonexistent.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 18, 2006, 11:49:24 PM
Post by: attackslug on November 20, 2006, 05:05:23 AM
*The controls work for the most part -- the aiming is great once you get used to it, but the turning does indeed suck. Swordplay is great, and exactly how I expected it to feel. Shootouts are very fun -- taking cover behind objects and the free-aiming do give it a bit of an oldschool arcade lightgun feel.
*I had no problems whatsoever parrying and striking, and the delay is unnoticable to me.
*The graphics are half great, and half merely OK. For instance, the character models and shading are fantastic, and the light blooming/beaming is quite striking. But it feels a bit... sloppy. The framerate is crap, for one. The game rarely sticks at a constant 30fps, and fluidity is crucial in an FPS. Also, little graphical glitches are everywhere. For example, when I was admiring some VERY nice water/warping effects in an in-game kitchen sink, firing at the water would result in a broken glass noise and decal on the surface.
*HOLY CRAP this game makes me feel motion sick. Worse than Timesplitters and MP.
In all, the game does feel a bit rushed and unpolished, ala Geist. I can only imagine how much better it would play if they took a bit more time to tighten up the framerate and make the free-aiming a function that can be toggled on and off during gameplay, maybe by hitting button 1 or 2.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 20, 2006, 06:29:22 AM
Quote
Graphics alone wouldn't matter that much, but I actually had a hard time getting through the game because of the poor visuals. For example, a large number of levels require you to take out sneaky snipers who position themselves on ledges far from your sight -- pretty common, sure -- but when it comes time to return the fire, the textures for the snipers are so bad that only way to find them is to let them shoot you (and hope you don't die) and then trace the fire back to where they are hiding. Even then half the time I couldn't find the enemy and had to rely on my pointer turning red to signify I finally found the source of my frustration.
This is EXACTLY the problem I had with Perfect Dark 0 and no amount of graphical horsepower was capable of saving the game for me.
But Red Steel has been fine from what I've played so far. I need to get a friggin' SVIDEO cable, but other than that, I've no complaints about the game. It feels a bit unpolished, but the gameplay is SOLID, especially the sword fighting: it's like a mix of Zelda's dodging system and Punch-Out...with swords.
As for the AI, I've noticed it being a tad gitchy in places, but overall, it's a PITA because it knows that when I run toward it, I'm trying to hit it with my sword and will run away from me while still shooting.
Post by: ShyGuy on November 20, 2006, 07:12:37 AM
I'm going have to do a reader review of this game when I get far enough through it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 20, 2006, 07:44:12 AM
What's REALLY fun is trying to angle yourself just right so you can shoot their foot or hand without them being able to shoot you, and I've found it doable on quite a few occasions.
Post by: ThePerm on November 20, 2006, 07:48:53 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 20, 2006, 08:29:01 AM
-hold A and move the Wiimote forward to zoom in and aim more closely for better accuracy
-Z to duck
-C to jump
-flick the nunchuck to manually reload
-flick the nunchuck when in melee range of a gun-toting enemy to kill them with your blocking sword (can't remember its name)
-move with the nunchuck stick, aim with the Wiimote, aim to the edge of the screen to turn in that direction
-Push forward with the chuck to open doors, press buttons, move tables to hide behind them, etc.
-Hold down on the D-pad to hold out a grenade then nunchuck swing down to throw it, swing up to roll it on the ground.
-Tap left on the D-pad to switch weapons
-Swing the nunchuck down while standing on a weapon to swap your current weapon for it (you can carry two at once).
-Ammo and grenades are picked up automatically.
Swordplay:
-swing the wiimote to swing the sword. Doesn't always perfectly mimic your stroke (seldom does) but you swing your sword regardless.
-parry with the nunchuck by swinging left or right. Timing your parry can knock your opponent off balance for an opening.
-push C+left or right on the analogue stick to dodge left or right. Some attacks can not be parried without taking damage.
-dodge and then quickly parry to damage your enemy's weapon. You can defeat enemies by destroying their weapon as it has its own weapon "health".
-Flick the nunchuck to spare someone's life after defeating them (hence reaching for the scabbard). Move the wiimote to stab and kill them.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 20, 2006, 09:42:22 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 20, 2006, 01:40:57 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 20, 2006, 02:42:45 PM
Post by: BigJim on November 20, 2006, 03:21:17 PM
From the bullshots to the sunshine being blown up our asses since April, I would expect a better game for all the PR they rammed down our throats. The websites and rags need to stop letting early looks be free automatic positive PR, and maintain a fair perspective of the work.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 20, 2006, 04:02:21 PM
Trauma Center is the true 3rd-party app of the launch.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 20, 2006, 04:16:02 PM
1. It was the first Wii game announced, especially at a time in which Nintendo was mum about the games
2. It was an original franchise built exclusively for the system
3. It was an original franchise from a major third party developer
4. It was a dark and mature franchise
Had RS been unveiled during different conditions, it would've been ignored.
I guess in all the rambling about the game not living up to hype, we should be grateful that Ubisoft actually bothered to create this game in the first place, and despite the reviews RS did open the doors to other potential franchises.
Also, I predict the game will be a hit no matter what, if only because of the hype. Its already been proven that reviews don't matter in a game's sales. If it did, a great deal of games would've never been sold (I am talking to you, Enter the Matrix!).
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 20, 2006, 04:37:37 PM
1. The crap cutseens
2. The unpolished all around feel.
3. Lack of brain power required. :p
4. Maybe I'm racist but when I shoot at black people dressed like 50 cent they shouldn't talk like a small white guy.
But other than that I love it. Personally so far I will give it a 7.5/10.
Post by: MarioAllStar on November 20, 2006, 06:05:57 PM
Post by: Requiem on November 20, 2006, 06:38:28 PM
That is kinda impressive. I wonder how many Zelda threads there are?
Post by: coolsebas on November 20, 2006, 06:42:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Let's all forget about Red Steel, despite the fact we all bought it.
Trauma Center is the true 3rd-party app of the launch.
I have to argee with you... I am ashame to show this to my friends.. but oh well.. and my brother got soo sick from playing this LMAO.... oh well... im sad now
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 20, 2006, 07:25:47 PM
Oh, and the control in CoD3 is identical except the screen pans even faster. If you got sick from RS, CoD will KILL you.
I agree that it could have used some more time in development, but the game is just so damn fun that I honestly think it was still worth the purchase. Had Ubi 3-4 more months to polish the game, it could have been a AAA, easily.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on November 21, 2006, 03:15:10 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 21, 2006, 04:08:04 AM
1. Ubi made their list of promises as to what the game would be like before having any actual working Wiimote prototypes. When they finally got the official dev kits, they must have realized that there was a lot they couldn't do.
2. Most of this game was very likely developed on a PC then ported to Wii hardware because of the lack of dev kits.
Both of these are hurdles that RS2 would not face, and this time, I would think that their ambitions would not exceed reality and they would also have more time to hone the controls and the swordplay.
Post by: IceCold on November 21, 2006, 07:48:30 AM
Post by: ThePerm on November 21, 2006, 09:32:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
-B trigger fires
-hold A and move the Wiimote forward to zoom in and aim more closely for better accuracy
-Z to duck
-C to jump
-flick the nunchuck to manually reload
-flick the nunchuck when in melee range of a gun-toting enemy to kill them with your blocking sword (can't remember its name)
-move with the nunchuck stick, aim with the Wiimote, aim to the edge of the screen to turn in that direction
-Push forward with the chuck to open doors, press buttons, move tables to hide behind them, etc.
-Hold down on the D-pad to hold out a grenade then nunchuck swing down to throw it, swing up to roll it on the ground.
-Tap left on the D-pad to switch weapons
-Swing the nunchuck down while standing on a weapon to swap your current weapon for it (you can carry two at once).
-Ammo and grenades are picked up automatically.
Swordplay:
-swing the wiimote to swing the sword. Doesn't always perfectly mimic your stroke (seldom does) but you swing your sword regardless.
-parry with the nunchuck by swinging left or right. Timing your parry can knock your opponent off balance for an opening.
-push C+left or right on the analogue stick to dodge left or right. Some attacks can not be parried without taking damage.
-dodge and then quickly parry to damage your enemy's weapon. You can defeat enemies by destroying their weapon as it has its own weapon "health".
-Flick the nunchuck to spare someone's life after defeating them (hence reaching for the scabbard). Move the wiimote to stab and kill them.
what they should do with red steel 2 is have c be both duck and jump based on wii mote action, and z be small bounding aim for turning!
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 21, 2006, 07:10:20 PM
It's a shame that most reviewers will only play a few hours in before calling the game garbage, long before they get to the best parts of it.
Post by: Kairon on November 21, 2006, 07:37:19 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: ShyGuy on November 21, 2006, 08:41:59 PM
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 21, 2006, 08:59:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm about 5-7 hours in now and I can say for certain that Ubi definitely made good on one of their promises: the game becomes a great deal more complex as you progress, with the focus instant timing being introduced as well as branching missions which you can take in any particular order.
It's a shame that most reviewers will only play a few hours in before calling the game garbage, long before they get to the best parts of it.
Arn't reviewers supposed to play the whole game before shitting on it?
Post by: Rhoq on November 22, 2006, 12:52:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Don't believe the hype. Red Steel is better than 5.5
Thank you. That's what I've been saying since Sunday - it's at least a 7.5/8.0 out of 10
I'm very forgiving of launch title flaws. I'm a huge fan of the DS launch title Asphalt: Urban GT and that too got terrible reviews. I'd also rate that in the same range as Red Steel.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 22, 2006, 03:15:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DAaaMan64 Arn't reviewers supposed to play the whole game before shitting on it?
Yeah, but they don't always do that.
When it came to a lot of GC games, IGN was notorious for complaining about the games lacking things which they actually had later on if you played a bit further.
Right now, I'm in an area where I'm earning access to all the free guns I want by proving to an elderly Japanese gun expert that I'm capable with that gun via target practice.
Of course, I prefer the pistol because I'm a goddamn surgeon with it...and every headshot makes an exploding melon "sploit" noise.
Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq I'm very forgiving of launch title flaws. I'm a huge fan of the DS launch title Asphalt: Urban GT and that too got terrible reviews. I'd also rate that in the same range as Red Steel.
I wish Ubi had polished this game a bit more, thus encouraging people to play a bit further into it before passing any kind of judgment. I'm having a serious amount of fun with the game and I get this odd feeling while I play it. There's something about it which makes it stand out from every other FPS I've ever played and I'm not sure what that is, exactly...
Post by: trip1eX on November 22, 2006, 05:28:18 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 22, 2006, 07:58:08 AM
Seriously, this game puts headshots at a level that no game has ever before dreamt of. I'll be walking along and suddenly get attacked by two guards and quickly dispatch both of them with headshots before they get a chance to fire a single shot at me.
Also, once you get the focus meter which doesn't happen until about 4 hours into the game, sadly, if you have any focus, you hold A and hit C, then you can shoot the guns in enemies' hands after you tag the guns and release A, then you have to gesture downward to convince them that you're serious and to drop their now semi-working guns and you earn respect points for it which enable you to take harder missions later on.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 22, 2006, 05:25:26 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 23, 2006, 03:54:18 AM
Also Im surprised that only a few of you commented on the soundtrack which I think is one of the best soundtracks done in a FPS. If I were to rate this game I would pinpoint it somewhere in the 7.8 - 8.5 range.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 23, 2006, 06:39:55 AM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 23, 2006, 09:41:08 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 23, 2006, 12:39:35 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 23, 2006, 03:28:37 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on November 25, 2006, 06:14:29 AM
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 25, 2006, 08:11:51 AM
Post by: WuTangTurtle on November 25, 2006, 09:07:34 AM
I think if people play this game long enough to master the controls the game will be a joy for them. However it is a harsh learning curve, u really have to not think about past FPS controls.
Post by: Smash_Brother on November 26, 2006, 08:11:13 AM
I had it on short strokes and changed it to long and it got a LOT better. Also, the fighting later on gets much more challenging in terms of swordplay.
I finished it and the story was surprisingly neat for what it was. I don't think Ubi had the full effect of the emotion they could have, but when my sensei's daughter was nearly killed and he screamed at me to leave, I realized at once that it was my doing and my fault for leading the assassins to him in the first place.
All in all, the game is intended as an allegory AGAINST revenge, against killing in the name of honor. I also admit it had some plot twists which I didn't see coming which kept the story interesting.
All in all, 8.5 of 10, losing a point for some glitches and a half-point for lack of polish. I would like to try more multiplayer, though...
But mastering the controls is ABSOLUTELY key to enjoying the game. Unless you can get the control scheme down, the game quite literally is NOT for you.
Post by: trip1eX on December 04, 2006, 04:02:36 AM
But man I've changed my mind. RS is actually a very ambitious game imo. The only beef I really have with it is that it's far from being polished. The frame rate is shakey thoughout. The way the enemy moves sometimes looks sloppy. You can see guns floating in the air once in awhile or clipping here and there.
I hate to defend this, but if you can overlook this lack of polish it's a great game. NOw I'm only about halfway thru, but it's got a ton of variety to it.
I just did the mission with the large rabbits in them. That's pretty sweet. I like the fact you can spare lives. and the story is pretty sweet. I'm not one for vidgames stories, but the whole respect thing and the way the missions in the bar are setup is sweet. Same with the fact you can go down and use the target range between missions.
I give the game a 7.5. If you can overlook the unfinished production values it's a 9 type of a game. Surely it's more interesting than most of the been there, done that fps games out there.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 04:23:42 AM
The swordplay reminds me most closely of Punch-Out's style of, dodge, counter, react fighting, except that Red Steel is far, far more forgiving about taking hits than PO was (seriously, this Scott Monroe must be built like a friggin' tank).
And yeah, about the ending: The ending was pretty neat, with having to beat Otori, your sensei, in order to keep him from killing Tokai who was the only one who knew the location of the antidote to the poison that was killing both Otori and Mariko, Otori's daughter. Also, Tokai wasn't the typical "supermegaultrapowerful" villain that I expected to encounter at the end of this game. In fact, he was terrible with a sword, and it was kind of sad when you learned that the only reason he was doing all this was to avenge his father who had wronged the Sato clan and had Otori behead him to save his honor, the same honor which his son, Tokai, went on to besmirch because he blamed the Sato clan for the death of his father. He was just a lost and vengeful little boy who couldn't accept that his father chose an honorable death.
The destruction of the Katana Giri at the hands of Scott was also rather poetic. It symbolized the end of the system of honor and vengeance which was essentially the cause of all the bloodshed to start with.
Seriously, how many games end with having to stop your teacher from killing the main villain in order to SAVE your teacher?
The story started slow, but it ramped up rather quickly. My only wish was that the scene where Sato himself dies would have been more heartfelt, something along the lines of Sato telling Scott that he would have made a good son in law, but that's me projecting my ideas.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 04, 2006, 04:26:55 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 04:37:49 AM
I got lucky and beat Otori with zero health left, did you lose to him?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 04, 2006, 04:46:45 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 04:54:28 AM
Did Otori give you a new and better sword at some point?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 04, 2006, 05:04:10 AM
He did give me a new sword. That can't branch, since there has to be a reason for the Katana Giri to be at the dojo in that next mission.
I'll try to remember to play it tonight and see if I can't figure out what happened.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 05:22:45 AM
If what you're saying is correct, it must mean there was something which allowed you to actually beat Otori and get the good ending, something which I didn't even realize I did.
I'll check my respect level when I get home, but I spared everyone I fought and had a level of roughly 22,000 respect when I finished. What was your total?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 04, 2006, 05:24:29 AM
High in ambition, high in mediocrity. Geist had a better composure.
I don't like the cookie cutter FPS elements (not like i ever liked those elements anyway), but somehow it's still fun, and swordplay is fun in that Punch-Out sort of way.
I'm looking forward to more swordplay rather than gunplay.
I think at the heart of the value is that it's "The" launch game to offer quite a bit of involving in-yo-face action (sorry COD3, but scripted excitement doesn't count).
Secret to swordy success: Set sword movements to "long", then BLOCK then LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT, repeat, then SUCCESS.
And also, yes, this game is way too forgiving. But for a game this sloppy, i'd guess it has to be forgiving or else you'd get nowhere.
Post by: IceCold on December 04, 2006, 05:28:36 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 04, 2006, 05:40:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666 Secret to swordy success: Set sword movements to "long", then BLOCK then LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT, repeat, then SUCCESS.
The swordfights become more difficult later on when you fight enemies who can parry your parries and knock YOU off balance.
EDIT: And you got a Wii I take it? Grats, at last!
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 05, 2006, 03:55:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
That's weird...
If what you're saying is correct, it must mean there was something which allowed you to actually beat Otori and get the good ending, something which I didn't even realize I did.
I'll check my respect level when I get home, but I spared everyone I fought and had a level of roughly 22,000 respect when I finished. What was your total?
Results of my test last night were inconclusive. I couldn't lay a finger on Otori or his weapon at all. I couldn't knock him off balance, and he dodged when I attacked his sword after a strong attack. Again, maybe I just suck, but for him to be so far above every other enemy in the game that I can't do anything at all doesn't make sense. My respect level was just under 20,000. I kind of doubt that's the difference, though. If the difference were based on respect, wouldn't it be a matter of level instead of points?
Also, I couldn't confirm what differences there were in the ending because the game didn't show it after I replayed the chapter. It didn't even show me a results screen. It just kicked me back to the main menu. I don't know how I'm supposed to improve my scores this way, especially since I didn't get to choose weapons beforehand or even use the same ones I used originally.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 05, 2006, 03:43:59 PM
Did you try repeatedly doing the downward double attack by holding Z and swinging both down? Otori will block these and the sword will be damaged by it.
There doesn't seem to be a way to replay cutscenes, though, which is a REAL shame...
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 06, 2006, 03:26:17 AM
Oh, and thanks for telling me to use long sword movements. It detects the actual direction of my slashes a hundred times better, and it's really not too different from the way I was playing it before. I guess my concept of "short movements" doesn't match Ubisoft's very well, and that must have been my problem.
Even if my scores can improve, though, if the game forces me to replay using automatic weapons, it's going to be impossible to improve accuracy by much. Not to mention what a bummer it is to not get to use my favorite pistol(s) whenever I want.
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 06, 2006, 05:35:49 AM
And yeah, this is the only game I know where pistols are actually preferable to machine guns. Seriously, what other game has ever done that?
Post by: vudu on December 06, 2006, 06:27:55 AM
QuoteHalo.
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
this is the only game I know where pistols are actually preferable to machine guns. Seriously, what other game has ever done that?
It's really easy to snipe people at long distances using the zoom feature of the pistol. I was nearly unstoppable when using it.
Post by: WuTangTurtle on December 06, 2006, 07:14:41 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 07, 2006, 02:36:58 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 07, 2006, 05:28:33 AM
Another example of launchitis in Red Steel.
Also, I would have loved a "Blade Master" mode where you just fight progressively difficult sword-wielding opponents to see how far in you can survive. RE: DS had a master of knifing minigame along these lines and that was a lot of fun, but Pap64 beat all my scores in that one...
Post by: trip1eX on December 08, 2006, 08:14:27 AM
A game like this leaves me mixed. I mean I enjoyed it, but I don't want to support developers releasing games that are half-polished. So I recommend a rental or buy and sell when you're done.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 19, 2007, 05:46:38 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 19, 2007, 05:52:28 AM
Post by: Kairon on March 21, 2007, 06:37:18 AM
~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on March 21, 2007, 07:13:11 AM
Post by: IceCold on March 21, 2007, 07:24:51 AM
QuoteHaha, Kairon got owned, especially since he's been defending Far Cry so much
Originally posted by: PartyBear
But Ubisoft did Far Cry.
I guess he could have meant Ubisoft Paris - they made Red Steel while Ubi Montreal developed Far Cry.
Post by: Kairon on March 21, 2007, 08:01:26 AM
Oh, and also,
IceCold.~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
