Author Topic: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta  (Read 54807 times)

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Offline Oblivion

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2014, 06:24:09 PM »
Holy ****


I need this game now.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 06:26:17 PM by Oblivion »

Offline Soren

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2014, 06:29:55 PM »
Dat eShop discount tho...




EDIT: Also, Europe wins again...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 06:32:37 PM by Soren »
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2014, 06:35:54 PM »
No mention of Super Smash Bros. The dream is dead. Boo/hiss

This game looks so absurdly and hilariously over-the-top, more so than the original. I don't get the impression that Platinum Games means for any of it to be taken seriously. Bayonetta is like a parody of sexiness. If I'm interpreting that wrong, I might uncomfortably cringe too much to be able to finish the game.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2014, 06:47:22 PM »
That's a subtle hint from Sakurai that Bayonetta's in Smash not as an alt of Zero Suit Samus but of Fox. The Landmaster will be especially out of place in her case.
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Offline azeke

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2014, 07:06:38 PM »
People who find similarities between Samus and Bayo are showing that they have zero idea who they are and how they actually look like and behave.

I am guessing that's because they didn't play any games in either series (which is a fair assumption for overwhelming majority).


This game looks so absurdly and hilariously over-the-top, more so than the original. I don't get the impression that Platinum Games means for any of it to be taken seriously. Bayonetta is like a parody of sexiness. If I'm interpreting that wrong, I might uncomfortably cringe too much to be able to finish the game.
Bayo makes you uncomfortable on purpose. She is sexy and flaunts it to make you feel inferior and weak. She is the dominatrix and is always in control.

Bayo is secretly what feminism is all about. Or should be.

It's even written inside the first game's plot. The way how Cereza (little girl from 1st game) sees her as a positive strong female role model is a major plot pint.
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Offline azeke

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Offline Shaymin

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2014, 10:30:09 PM »
For the digital master race, something you should know:

Bayonetta 2 by itself = 14.6GB
Bayonetta 1 + 2 = 32GB

Yeah, bigger than the DELUXE. Get your hard drives ready.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2014, 08:07:21 AM »
...

This game looks so absurdly and hilariously over-the-top, more so than the original. I don't get the impression that Platinum Games means for any of it to be taken seriously. Bayonetta is like a parody of sexiness. If I'm interpreting that wrong, I might uncomfortably cringe too much to be able to finish the game.
Bayo makes you uncomfortable on purpose. She is sexy and flaunts it to make you feel inferior and weak. She is the dominatrix and is always in control.

Bayo is secretly what feminism is all about. Or should be.

It's even written inside the first game's plot. The way how Cereza (little girl from 1st game) sees her as a positive strong female role model is a major plot pint.


I haven't played Bayonetta, but have the same concern as Adrock going in.


Bayonetta looks like a high quality game with fantastic action and cute Nintendo-based fan service added in. It's a great value to get both games in one package. And it's not like Wii U is getting tons of games released - it's dangerously close to "Bayonetta or nothing" in the Fall.


But that level of sexualization definitely exceeds what I'm normally comfortable with. Even if it is wrapped into the plot, trying to justify overt sexualization of women as a form of empowerment usually doesn't work for me (especially when the target market is very clearly a young male audience). Even if azeke is entirely right, trying to explain that it's really a form of strong female imagery instead of "sexy fun time" to anyone -- including my friends, wife, or daughter -- if they weer to see only a small portion of the game seems like a tough sell.


Still buying because I really like Platinum as a studio and am a Wii U-only gamer... but worried that I'll end up feeling too uncomfortable to actually play through the game.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2014, 08:49:27 AM »
But that level of sexualization definitely exceeds what I'm normally comfortable with. Even if it is wrapped into the plot, trying to justify overt sexualization of women as a form of empowerment usually doesn't work for me (especially when the target market is very clearly a young male audience).
That sexualization as empowerment in a game marketed to this particular audience is what makes me skeptical of the game being a commentary on feminism. That message gets lost somewhere in the midst of all the crotch shots. Bayonetta tries too hard and the game is way too pandering to be taken seriously which is why I think it works as parody. More powerful attacks are marked by Bayonetta shedding clothes/hair. Everything about that is ridiculous. Giving Platinum Games the benefit of the doubt, I'm hoping for self-awareness, that Bayonetta was designed to gently mock the people who drool over "sexy" video game characters. If Platinum Games intends for Bayonetta to be a symbol of feminism, I'd find that to be cringe-worthy because they're missing the point entirely. I'd be embarrassed for them.

Offline azeke

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2014, 09:11:24 AM »
Shunning female sexuality is very far from definition of feminism. Saying that Bayo should cover herself and be less provocative is slut shaming and leads to stuff like hijabs.

When you confess that you are uncomfortable with such fierce display of Bayo completely dominating everyone you're saying that women should be more demure and passive and sexually aggresiive women majorly turn you off and scare you.

But i would like to close the subject, because this is very clearly cultural/beliefs thing and i won't be able to convince you, even if am objectively right.



How about we discuss the actual gameplay? There is so much more to Platinum games than just asses. Like industry leading combat systems.

Sometimes i wish i haven't played Bayonetta becuase it makes other, lesser, action games feel positively primitive.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2014, 09:50:35 AM »
...
When you confess that you are uncomfortable with such fierce display of Bayo completely dominating everyone you're saying that women should be more demure and passive and sexually aggresiive women majorly turn you off and scare you.
...

You might want to close the convo, but I'm not willing to on that note.

When talking about objectively wrong, the statement above qualifies.  My discomfort comes from the strong suspicion that this is all a sexual fantasy for guys instead of a form of empowerment for women. My discomfort comes with how the topic is interpreted by people around me who don't play through the game to get the full story.

I'm glad you are comfortable with the imagery and messaging. It doesn't make the concern others feel any less valid. (And that's my piece. I'm comfortable ending now.)


Edit: Interesting to note that people voicing concerns haven't played, while people who have played are ok with the game. Could be a handful of reasons for this.


As you say, though, gameplay is a big part of the reason I'm willing to overlook these concerns for now and buy anyway. Platinum knows what they are doing when it comes to fantastic action games.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 09:56:48 AM by ejamer »
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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2014, 10:14:58 AM »
I didn't play much of the first one, it gets boring pretty fast but I don't think the game was pandering I think it was more like Azeke says. I am not a feminists though so I don't see things through that lens. The game didn't turn me on sexually no video game does I am not a deviant, I say the same for anime and comic book characters but don't take the deviant remark seriously. I just don't get turned on by those things. What I did play of Bayonetta one was it was a mindless beat em up, which I normally like but the stupid story was too in your face the cut scenes are built into the action and could not be skipped, I hated that I just want to play a game not have it preach to me.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2014, 10:23:41 AM »
Shunning female sexuality is very far from definition of feminism. Saying that Bayo should cover herself and be less provocative is slut shaming and leads to stuff like hijabs.

When you confess that you are uncomfortable with such fierce display of Bayo completely dominating everyone you're saying that women should be more demure and passive and sexually aggresiive women majorly turn you off and scare you.

But i would like to close the subject, because this is very clearly cultural/beliefs thing and i won't be able to convince you, even if am objectively right.
A lot of assumptions in this post.
Edit: Interesting to note that people voicing concerns haven't played, while people who have played are ok with the game. Could be a handful of reasons for this.
I've played the first game, not a lot of it, but I have played it. That said, I'm not uncomfortable with Bayonetta or her portrayal as a dom; I'm uncomfortable with Platinum Games thinking they're making some big statement on feminism. Bayonetta is a strong character in the game world, but when viewed as media, it is appealing to the lowest common denominator, especially given its target audience. If this isn't parody, their intentions and actions clash; it's as if they don't know what message they want to portray. It's certainly their prerogative to create a sexualized video game character, but I'm not buying the notion that this was all for femininism.

Offline azeke

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2014, 10:27:58 AM »
What I did play of Bayonetta one was it was a mindless beat em up, which I normally like but the stupid story was too in your face the cut scenes are built into the action and could not be skipped,
All cutscenes are skippable either by pressing Start or by using instant shortcut Select-RT.

Not sure how it was on PS3 though, with how broken that port they could have very well botched even that.

The story in 1 was definitely stupid, i give you that. Here's hoping the story will be closer to W101 which had a great plot than to Bayo 1.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2014, 12:05:25 PM »
...
The story in 1 was definitely stupid, i give you that. Here's hoping the story will be closer to W101 which had a great plot than to Bayo 1.


If picking between Bayonetta (Wii U version of the first game) or W101 to play first, any suggestions?  I'm keen on a Platinum game for the Fall and haven't made up my mind which to play and which to save for later.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2014, 12:46:12 PM »
That said, I'm not uncomfortable with Bayonetta or her portrayal as a dom; I'm uncomfortable with Platinum Games thinking they're making some big statement on feminism.


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Offline azeke

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2014, 02:07:52 PM »
I'm uncomfortable with Platinum Games thinking they're making some big statement on feminism.
A lot of assumptions in this sentence about game you didn't played enough and developer you know little of.

Makng statements and delivering profound messages is not what Platinum Games is about. They are about making cool games, first, second, third and hundred first.

Pitch for Bayonetta was to recreate Dante (of Devil May Cry series) from scratch. So they inverted him and instead of a dude killing demons they got a lady slaughtering angels.

If picking between Bayonetta (Wii U version of the first game) or W101 to play first, any suggestions?  I'm keen on a Platinum game for the Fall and haven't made up my mind which to play and which to save for later.
Either are fine i believe, as long as you're not turning tutorials off.

Bayo has a more "traditional" gameplay so that helps if you have an experience of playing other game in the genre (DMC, modern Ninja Gaiden and such).

There is no more satisfying genre of games to learn and master. Fighting games maybe, but that requires local community and getting a bit more gud than i am capable of, while character action games are all about singleplayer experience.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2014, 03:27:58 PM »
A lot of assumptions in this sentence about game you didn't played enough and developer you know little of.
More assumptions from you, specifically about my exposure to the game and what I know of the developer, but nice try attempting to throw that back at me.

I've watched the cutscenes and watched some Let's Plays (mainly because I didn't think I'd ever get a chance to play through a good version of the game). I may not have played through the entire game, but I've seen enough of it. In what I've actually played, Bayonetta shed a lot of clothes/hair which isn't terribly difficult to do in the game. I don't need to see that hundreds more times to come to these conclusions.
Quote
Makng statements and delivering profound messages is not what Platinum Games is about. They are about making cool games, first, second, third and hundred first.
/infinite facepalm

You're the one trying to make the case that Bayonetta is about feminism and that this was Platinum Games' agenda all along by pointing out plot significance.

My comments about this aspect of the game hinge entirely on whether Bayonetta is or is not parody. In this case, I can appreciate it more from an entertainment standpoint if it's done a tongue-in-cheek manner; that's certainly how I've been interpreting it. If that interpretation is incorrect and Bayonetta is about feminism as you say, that changes things. Context matters. Bayonetta is laughably absurd, and if, IF Platinum Games means for any of it to be taken seriously, that, to me, would extremely cringe-worthy. That might be too distracting to play through the game. It'd be like watching a melodramatic movie where the actors are hamming it up. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Offline ejamer

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2014, 03:49:00 PM »
...
Either are fine i believe, as long as you're not turning tutorials off.
...


Thanks. I often enjoy the same games you talk about, so value the opinion.


It depends on work affecting how long it takes to finish off WindWaker... but if both games are equally top-notch then W101 will likely be getting some burn before long.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2014, 07:47:31 PM »
I am uncomfortable by how all of these mostly male gamers suddenly become crusaders of decency and modesty when I bet you most of them watch porn and masturbate daily. Games and films and other forms of media will be outrageous because producers are always pushing the envelope - and is sells. This is going to happen and most of us agree to a point that it is despicable. Stop whining about it. Women have boobs. Males will obsess over them and display that obsession in their work. Get over it and move on.
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Offline Oblivion

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2014, 08:05:35 PM »
wut

Men can support feminism just as much as a white guy can protest for civil rights. I don't think you should be telling those people to shut up about it. This is 2014, you're the one who needs to get over it and move on.

Out of curiosity, how old are you? 30? 35?

Offline Soren

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2014, 09:37:24 PM »
Stop whining about it. Women have boobs. Males will obsess over them and display that obsession in their work. Get over it and move on.


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Offline Stratos

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2014, 09:51:57 PM »
I'm not talking about feminism. I'm all for everyone being given the same rights and feminisim is an understandable and bold response to a historical lack of equal rights for both sexes.


I'm talking about people complaining about overly sexualized characters in videogames. It isn't as bad here as it is on some other forums and even other threads here so perhaps this wasn't the best spot to voice it. It just seems every time I read about Bayonetta or Hyrule Warriors there will be people complaining about how overly sexualized the characters are - and it is OK to have your opinions if they are different from mine if you feel it has crossed your threshold of tolerance. I just feel sure there are people out there being vocal about it who then go on their computers and watch porn, which flies in the face of the complaints they are voicing, as this objectifies women. I'm not pointing anyone out here specifically as I do not know anyone's hearts on these issues. I'm just pointing out the absurdity and hypocrisy I feel takes place across the web.


I'm getting deja vu so I suspect I have already made this statement before in some fashion and will drop it.
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Offline azeke

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2014, 11:41:47 PM »
As i said, there is no convincing people set in their own set (wrong) ways about things they know very little about.

Women have boobs. Males will obsess over them and display that obsession in their work. Get over it and move on.
I will never stop correcting people thinking Bayonetta is some kinda monstrous titcow. She is not.

Tits and asses...

How about gameplay, no? Nothing, nobody? Okay.

How about amazing usage of every single controller button in Bayonetta -- and different actions depending on timing and duration of the press?

How about incredibly fluid dodging that is activated just by one press of a trigger (compared to traditional DMC where rolls are harder to pull off). On Wii U it will be even better because triggr are digital and faster to press.

How about innovative dodge offset idea that solves the problem of breaking you combo when used defensive move.

How about Wicked Weaves that are rewarding powerful moves at the end of most combos and are the reason you want keep your combo uninterrupted?

How about incredibly satisfying Moon of Mahaa Kalaa move where you can block everything simply by twitching the stick toward incoming enemy?

How about combo multiplier system that sometimes turns encounters into puzzles of sorts where you need to do very specific actions to reach required combo points value (some action ony boost points, some only boost multiplier value)?

How about instantly switchable weapons that have unique effectsand combos of their own?

But yeah that is too boring and acrually requires one to play the game, ef that.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Bayonetta 2, now with twice as much Bayonetta
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2014, 12:35:35 AM »
As i said, there is no convincing people set in their own set (wrong) ways about things they know very little about.
Oh, other people are just wrong. Your arrogance is astounding.
Quote
I will never stop correcting people thinking Bayonetta is some kinda monstrous titcow. She is not.
Who is saying this?
Quote
How about gameplay, no? Nothing, nobody? Okay.
You want to talk about the gameplay in a game that isn't out yet? Has anyone here even played Bayonetta 2 at E3? I haven't so I have nothing to add. I suppose we can use the first Bayonetta as a basis, but that isn't really the same thing. And in case you haven't noticed, no one else here has obsessively played the 360 version like you have. If you want to talk about the first Bayonetta in the meantime, start a Bayonetta thread. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll get back to you in October regarding Bayonetta 2's gameplay.

And you're just as responsible for this arm of the discussion as the rest of us as you were the first to respond to my "parody of sexiness" post. You brought up feminism first and steered the conversation in that direction so if you didn't want to talk about, maybe you shouldn't have brought it up because we're just responding to a discussion you wanted to have.