Topic: Wii Successor Could Use Flash Memory and 25GB Discs

[Ceric]

Going to put another bit of my 2 cents in here.  Flash is fast. 

Flash is fast for reading, but it is slow for writing.  The things people are talking about here, using it is a temporary storage location for streaming or in-game content, would see no benefit because they require both reading and writing. 

As I pointed out before, Microsoft tried using flash memory as a temporary storage location in Windows Vista, but the slow write times meant it had no real benefit.  Intel even released a dedicated mini flash memory drive to take advantage of this, called Turbo Memory, but once again the slow write times meant it didn't help in real life.

So it does not offer any benefit as a temporary storage locations, the space is too small to be useful as a permanent storage location, this is a console not a handheld so the small difference in power consumption is not a real issue, since this is a console it isn't going to move while running so the moving parts are not a major issue, and it costs about ten times more per GB.  There are simply no benefits whatsoever to using flash memory in a console for consumers.  None.  The only possible benefit is that the lowest-price flash memory might cost less than the lowest-price hard drives (it is already hard to find any flash memory below 2 gb these days, by late next year 4 gb will probably already be on the way out).  But that is simply Nintendo cutting corners to the detriment of consumers.

If I'm not mistaken the write time of Flash memory is faster then the Read time of Optical media.  I went to find a good chart with all of them on but I can't find it.  Nothing and I repeat nothing will ever be a better scratch pad then RAM.

The game would loading to the faster reading Flash as your playing and the unneeded data would just fall off as you pass it in the game so effective the game is streaming on this faster reading memory instead of the slower optical media which could all start when the initial logo credits are running.  Essential this is what hackers did to play GCN roms if memory serves but with a network connection.

[Ian Sane]

I think the important thing is that the Super Wii has sufficient storage for saves, patches and DLC and will continue to several years from now when it will likely have to compete with PS3 and Xbox 360 successors and will want to be included in multiplatform releases.  I think HDD support is the way to ensure that but those specifics are not that important.  What matters is that three years from now Nintendo is not running into storage problems because they handcuffed themselves to something that is too restrictive.  It is imperative that Nintendo design their storage solution with the future in mind instead of what will save them some money for next quarter.

The correct solution is a longterm one and in this case I fear Nintendo is being shortsighted.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Rumor says that they are not including a HDD, not that they won't support one.

Just wait till E3 and stop giving yourself premature gray hair.
Iwata has said a lot of encouraging things lately and we should atleast give him the chance to back it up.

[Chozo Ghost]

Rumor says that they are not including a HDD, not that they won't support one.

I hope the rumor is false, or at worst it just means there is going to be a low end version of Cafe which lacks a hard drive ala the 4gb Xbox 360 but doesn't exclude an additional high end model which does include a HDD. I would gladly pay an additional $50-$100 more for a higher end Cafe that includes a HDD and other bundled perks. If the 360 can do that, why can't Nintendo? The low end 8gb model can be marketed to casuals and the high end can be more for hardcore gamers who tend to spend more on DLC and therefore need the extra storage.

[Ceric]

Rumor says that they are not including a HDD, not that they won't support one.

I hope the rumor is false, or at worst it just means there is going to be a low end version of Cafe which lacks a hard drive ala the 4gb Xbox 360 but doesn't exclude an additional high end model which does include a HDD. I would gladly pay an additional $50-$100 more for a higher end Cafe that includes a HDD and other bundled perks. If the 360 can do that, why can't Nintendo? The low end 8gb model can be marketed to casuals and the high end can be more for hardcore gamers who tend to spend more on DLC and therefore need the extra storage.

I can tell you why.  SKU confusion.  For anyone who reads or post on this forum this is not a large problem but, for the rest of the world having multiple different SKU's muddles things and the feelings of people who know who parents and like get the "inferior" version.  If getting the console doesn't make Timmy happy, which is the parents reward, then getting him other products from that company/for that system may also not make Timmy Happy, a no reward all loss situation.

The same people who be labeled hardcore would be willing to just buy a HDD, undo the two screws to put it in, and then go brag how their is now awesome because it has an HDD and their l33t  because they did the mod themselves.

[gbuell]

SKU confusion is something to think about but I wouldn't get too hung up on it. After all, Apple's newest iPad version has 18 SKUs, and it's still one of the most casual-friendly gadgets in existence, from a marketing standpoint. People might be a bit confused by it but I don't think it's a deal breaker for anyone.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Does anyone want Nintendo to pull a MS and sell them a $35 HDD for $100?

I'd rather buy it myself and spend the extra money on a game or 2.

Besides, chances are that if they don't include one at launch they would include it with a big game like Pokemon MORPG.

[Shadowxaf]

Flash has several advantages:
Cheaper unit cost (at ~32GB and under)
Smaller
Quieter
More durable

I would guess that a very significant proportion of xBox users don't use more than 8 GB (especially since Microsoft sells the Arcade 360 :-) )  Think about the number of people who never go online with their console.

The hard drive size on modern consoles are vast overkill for most people, and are only so big because the unit cost on a 50GB and 500GB hard drive is the same.

I do fine with a 4GB flash drive on my 360, though I'm not a heavy gamer with that system.

With SD support and external HD support, I'd prefer Nintendo to ship with flash.

The only other option I would like is a hard drive without an optical drive, with a Steam-like service.  That isn't going to happen this next generation though.