Author Topic: PlayStation Vita (PS Vita) - previously known as NGP  (Read 265793 times)

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Offline Shorty McNostril

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #450 on: January 28, 2011, 10:03:26 PM »
and the LCD probably only costs them like $15-30 a piece

OLED screen.  Much more than 30 bucks i would imagine.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #451 on: January 29, 2011, 12:07:35 AM »
The "PS3 Games on the Go" stuff intrigues me.  My thought is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot stopping Activision from taking, say, Modern Warfare 3 and making a PS3 build of it, and then taking the same code and putting it on NGP.  Think about that...they would probably just have to tweak the engine a bit, optimize it, and voila.  But you're playing the same game.  That's unprecedented.  I think it'd be awesome to sit around at lunch, find a Wi-Fi hotspot, and grind some XP using the same character and account that's on your PS3.

As for the size of the thing, well, I seem to find room for my first-gen Kindle on trips and that's a hell of lot bigger than any portable gaming system.  I don't see it really being an issue...it's not an issue with my PSP now.
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Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #452 on: January 29, 2011, 12:54:13 AM »
I think all this talk about Sony needing to take a loss is way overblown.The next iPod touch will be out before the NGP and will likely have similar CPU/GPU/RAM and cameras and motion sensors and such. The current Touch sells for $229 with a quite good profit margin (it's Apple!)

What does the PSP have that the iPod touch doesn't?

Buttons
A bigger, higher quality screen with 85% as many pixels.
A second touch surface.
media card slots
Digital compass
Probably a bigger battery
3g(optional?)

Will those additions not allow Sony to sell the system at $350 with a profit margin?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 12:56:16 AM by Shadowxaf »

Offline Guitar Smasher

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #453 on: January 29, 2011, 01:04:22 AM »
Hahaha, that analyst sounds like a Sony fanboy. Sony stopped being in charged of anything years ago, and portable entertainment was never in their hands. People like him said the same thing about the PSP and that failed to beat the DS, I doubt the NGP will beat the 3DS.
Yeah, but the PSP had only one control stick.  NGP is completely different.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #454 on: January 29, 2011, 01:06:26 AM »
I think all this talk about Sony needing to take a loss is way overblown.

But according to Eurogamer, it was Sony who said that Sony was going to be taking a loss.

Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #455 on: January 29, 2011, 01:20:12 AM »
I think all this talk about Sony needing to take a loss is way overblown.

But according to Eurogamer, it was Sony who said that Sony was going to be taking a loss.
Of course they are taking a loss.  The first one costs millions to make.
We know Sony won't exaggerate to hype a system... 

They may take a small loss if they sell it for $299. And by loss, I mean that adding a single unit to a run of a million would cost Sony more than the wholesale cost of the device.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 01:25:50 AM by Shadowxaf »

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #456 on: January 29, 2011, 01:30:32 AM »
I think all this talk about Sony needing to take a loss is way overblown.The next iPod touch will be out before the NGP and will likely have similar CPU/GPU/RAM and cameras and motion sensors and such. The current Touch sells for $229 with a quite good profit margin (it's Apple!)

What does the PSP have that the iPod touch doesn't?

Buttons
A bigger, higher quality screen with 85% as many pixels.
A second touch surface.
media card slots
Digital compass
Probably a bigger battery
3g(optional?)

Will those additions not allow Sony to sell the system at $350 with a profit margin?
Where is the screen resolution info coming from? I read that it was 4x the resolution of the PSP (which was 480x272), that would make it 960x544, technically giving it 3840 more pixels than the iPhone 4 (960x540, right?).
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Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #457 on: January 29, 2011, 01:32:32 AM »
Where is the screen resolution info coming from? I read that it was 4x the resolution of the PSP (which was 480x272), that would make it 960x544, technically giving it 3840 more pixels than the iPhone 4 (960x540, right?).
iPhone is 960*640

Offline that Baby guy

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #458 on: January 29, 2011, 01:54:51 AM »
I think all this talk about Sony needing to take a loss is way overblown.The next iPod touch will be out before the NGP and will likely have similar CPU/GPU/RAM and cameras and motion sensors and such. The current Touch sells for $229 with a quite good profit margin (it's Apple!)

What does the PSP have that the iPod touch doesn't?

Buttons
A bigger, higher quality screen with 85% as many pixels.
A second touch surface.
media card slots
Digital compass
Probably a bigger battery
3g(optional?)

Will those additions not allow Sony to sell the system at $350 with a profit margin?

The NGP has a quadcore processor and a multicore GPU.  The iPod touch has a single-core processor clocked at 800 mHz, and the next version won't have more than two cores, if that. The NGP's quad-core's minimum standard clock speed is 800 mhz.  Going with the low numbers, that's 800 mHz vs. 3.2 gHz. The iPod touch also has a GPU, but it's currently widely used and distributed, meaning R&D costs have likely mostly been subsidized.

OLED is expensive, not featured in the iPod touch.  3G connectivity costs a lot.  The kindle makes up for it for primarily being a sales device that transfers small amounts of data. 3G plans cost around $30 monthly for phones currently, another cost lacking from the iPod touch.

I am aware that Apple will upgrade things, but only to be competitive with the handheld cellphone market.  That likely means retaining the same GPU, and truth be told, they'll probably stick with a single-core processor for compatibility, but if not, they'll go dual-core at the most.

Point being, for a new device, it features a lot of new technology, stuff a step above what's on the market now.  That's why there are people excited about it. And that's why reasonable people reason out at least a $350+ (I'm hedging on $400, myself) price tag.

Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #459 on: January 29, 2011, 02:24:25 AM »

The NGP has a quadcore processor and a multicore GPU.  The iPod touch has a single-core processor clocked at 800 mHz, and the next version won't have more than two cores, if that. The NGP's quad-core's minimum standard clock speed is 800 mhz.  Going with the low numbers, that's 800 mHz vs. 3.2 gHz. The iPod touch also has a GPU, but it's currently widely used and distributed, meaning R&D costs have likely mostly been subsidized.
You can't just multiply mHz :-)  Anyway, neither of us know what the iPod Touch will have, but it will be improved.
Quote
OLED is expensive, not featured in the iPod touch.  3G connectivity costs a lot.  The kindle makes up for it for primarily being a sales device that transfers small amounts of data. 3G plans cost around $30 monthly for phones currently, another cost lacking from the iPod touch.
Do you have any source that says OLED is significantly more expensive than LCD?  I think the only reason it isn't used more now is because of supply issues.   I was ignoring the price of 3G hardware, but the $50 extra for the 3G Kindle does include free 3G for the life of the product.
Quote
I am aware that Apple will upgrade things, but only to be competitive with the handheld cellphone market.  That likely means retaining the same GPU, and truth be told, they'll probably stick with a single-core processor for compatibility, but if not, they'll go dual-core at the most.

Point being, for a new device, it features a lot of new technology, stuff a step above what's on the market now.  That's why there are people excited about it. And that's why reasonable people reason out at least a $350+ (I'm hedging on $400, myself) price tag.


I am excited about the NGP.  It looks as if Sony didn't make any compromises when building the NGP as a gaming machine.  But cell phones (and the iPod touch) are quickly increasing in power and features, too.  I wouldn't have guessed that the iPhone 4/iPod could play something like the Unreal demo at the about the same resolution as "HD" consoles do.


In the end, it all comes down to games, though.  I'll get the system with games I'm most interested in.  (are there any platformers for the 3DS?)

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #460 on: January 29, 2011, 02:45:22 AM »
The only thing Sony seems to have compromised (or atleast not officially mentioned/confirmed) is on-board storage. Where is the rumored 16GB Flash Drive? And whats the deal with the 2nd media slot and proprietary flash cards?

Offline Adrock

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #461 on: January 29, 2011, 02:46:33 AM »
The "PS3 Games on the Go" stuff intrigues me.  My thought is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot stopping Activision from taking, say, Modern Warfare 3 and making a PS3 build of it, and then taking the same code and putting it on NGP.  Think about that...they would probably just have to tweak the engine a bit, optimize it, and voila.  But you're playing the same game.  That's unprecedented.  I think it'd be awesome to sit around at lunch, find a Wi-Fi hotspot, and grind some XP using the same character and account that's on your PS3.
That sounds great on paper but I wonder how many people are willing to buy the same game just to grind some experience points. I doubt anyone would buy NGP specifically for that. Assuming they already had the hardware, I think the vast majority of people would only buy one copy and most people in that group would buy it on PS3 anyway.

Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #462 on: January 29, 2011, 02:53:20 AM »
The only thing Sony seems to have compromised (or atleast not officially mentioned/confirmed) is on-board storage. Where is the rumored 16GB Flash Drive? And whats the deal with the 2nd media slot and proprietary flash cards?


They probably haven't decided how much on-board storage it will have.  I hope they just put a (Micro)SD slot in it.

Offline that Baby guy

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #463 on: January 29, 2011, 03:11:33 AM »
Quote
Shadowxaf's last post

Sure, you can't multiply mHz outright, but the point is, four cores running at 800 mHz is a lot more than one or two, and Apples iPod touch improvements are typically very minor when the model doesn't receive a redesign, which just happened last year, and likely won't happen again.

As far as cost goes, since Cell phones aren't quite like TVs, in the sense that you can't find a cell phone with different display types with similar features, but with different screens, I figured I'd just dig up prices of OLED TVs and find a comparative model using an LCD screen, but even then, I could only found TVs priced in British pounds.  Looking around gadget blogs like gizmodo reflect that OLED in TV is costly, and kind of on the way. This story here reveals supply troubles with OLED screens that HTC has had in making some cell phones.  Essentially, the constant idea is that OLED, even now, is difficult and time-consuming to manufacture, and the reflection of that is expensive screens.  Smaller OLED screens are more common, but even then, manufacturers have a difficult time maintaining supply.  These aren't hard pricing figures, but taken with the common-sense economical laws of supply and demand, we can conclude that a lower volume of OLED screens available will be reflected through the price, especially if Sony needs millions of OLED screens for manufacturing the NGP.

Take that a step further, though, and if the OLED screen is the limiting factor for manufacturing the NGP, then Sony will recognize that they'll have limited supply, potentially supply that is far outpaced by demand.  As we saw with the PS3 and the PSPGO, when Sony believers consumer demand will be much higher than their supply (and sometimes even when it's substantially lower), specifically because of the quality of the parts of the device (and Sony's earlier presentation and following interviews definitely imply the believe the device to be in high demand and quality), Sony's pricing models go sky-high.

Essentially what I'm saying is this: The OLED screen will be a limiting factor in the manufacturing of the NGP.  Sony sees the NGP as a nice thing people want.  Sony will expect to bring a limited quantity of NGPs to market at launch, and will expect the device to sell no matter what, as often is the case on console launches.  In this respect, we should expect a very high price due to Sony's belief that the demand curve will be steeper than the supply curve and their correlated believe that the price of the NGP will almost invariably be below that of the demand curve for the expected supply of the device.

It's not the simple answer you're looking for, no, but essentially, unless the corporate culture of Sony has changed in the last four years, and given their prices for gadgets and TVs are higher than most others on the market, it hasn't, we won't see a simple, affordable NGP at first.  The thing will be expensive, because Sony almost certainly, Sony believes it will sell on eBay for $1000 at launch.  I think that's the sentence that sums up my argument well.

Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #464 on: January 29, 2011, 03:37:05 AM »
I forgot to mention GPS

My point still stands that Sony won't sell it for a loss :-)

I only chose the iPod for comparison because it was the closest thing I know of.

The nook color has an 7" 1024 x 600 IPS LCD in a system for $249

I think Sony would have used an IPS LCD if they could have saved a large amount of money.  I doubt most consumers would know the difference (heck, most people don't know that their "HD" consoles only push ~600P resolution for games like COD:BLOPS).  What advantage does Sony get by using a screen that costs, let's say, twice as much?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 03:45:31 AM by Shadowxaf »

Offline Adrock

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #465 on: January 29, 2011, 08:49:52 AM »
What advantage does Sony get by using a screen that costs, let's say, twice as much?
Sony has invested millions on OLED research and development and costs aren't expected to drop to/below regular LCD levels for something like 5 years. Think along the lines of their insistence on employing Blu Ray instead of standard DVDs in PS3. It's a trojan horse. Sony is getting the technology out there, into people's hands and homes. The more common the tech is, the faster the price drops and the faster profits are made and costs recouped.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #466 on: January 29, 2011, 09:38:00 AM »
i see (iPhone res). What is stupid about that is it's not 16:9, I don't really get the point of 16:10 screens. The argument is so you can have a full 16:9 video and have on-screen controls visible, but I don't want to see on-screen controls when I'm watching videos.
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Offline Shadowxaf

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #467 on: January 29, 2011, 02:03:41 PM »
i see (iPhone res). What is stupid about that is it's not 16:9, I don't really get the point of 16:10 screens. The argument is so you can have a full 16:9 video and have on-screen controls visible, but I don't want to see on-screen controls when I'm watching videos.


It's 3:2.  The iPad is 4:3.  They have more squarish resolutions so they can more comfortably be used with any orientation.  They aren't designed around watching video.

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #468 on: January 29, 2011, 02:13:17 PM »
I don't see how it helps any. 16:9 is pretty ideal for how your eyes see things anyway. Tablets (like the iPad) do kind of look odd at 16:9, but I like it for my phone (Droid) and I think it's ideal for handheld game systems too.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #469 on: January 29, 2011, 02:49:09 PM »
The rear track pad and touch screen can make for some pretty unique gameplay experiences, and I can't wait to see more examples in that area.

How would that be unique? Nintendo has been providing that gameplay experience since November 21st, 2004.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #470 on: January 29, 2011, 02:55:37 PM »
The rear track pad and touch screen can make for some pretty unique gameplay experiences, and I can't wait to see more examples in that area.

How would that be unique? Nintendo has been providing that gameplay experience since November 21st, 2004.

But now you get to tap it from the back? Have you ever tapped it from the back? Has Nintendo ever let you tap it from the back?
No!? I didn't think so.

But Sony will let you tap it from the front or the back. However you want. As long as you're happy.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #471 on: January 29, 2011, 03:07:01 PM »
The rear track pad and touch screen can make for some pretty unique gameplay experiences, and I can't wait to see more examples in that area.

How would that be unique? Nintendo has been providing that gameplay experience since November 21st, 2004.

But now you get to tap it from the back? Have you ever tapped it from the back? Has Nintendo ever let you tap it from the back?
No!? I didn't think so.

But Sony will let you tap it from the front or the back. However you want. As long as you're happy.

So Sony is a bigger whore than Nintendo?
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #472 on: January 29, 2011, 03:12:46 PM »
I'd hit it.
With a stick.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #473 on: January 29, 2011, 04:12:05 PM »
Tap that rear end.
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Offline EasyCure

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Re: PSP2 - It's coming and it's called Next Generation Portable (NGP)
« Reply #474 on: January 30, 2011, 11:51:13 AM »
These last few posts are pretty lol worthy and I feel a meme being born.

I'm not really interested in the NGP but I do have one question that I hope someone will kindly answer, saving me from backtracking through the thread;

Is the NGP the finalized name? Please tell me its not..
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