Author Topic: Hey! DC's got stuff too... (Official Thread for the DCU of Movies and TV)  (Read 193782 times)

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Offline Stratos

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So I finally saw Killing Joke on Netflix last night and I was kinda underwhelmed. I remember there was some stink about ways it diverged from the source but it just felt like it was missing something more from it. Hamill as the Joker was great, but it just didn't feel like it made all of its points clearly. Did I miss something obvious or is this really the extent of the comic as well?
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Offline BeautifulShy

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So I finally saw Killing Joke on Netflix last night and I was kinda underwhelmed. I remember there was some stink about ways it diverged from the source but it just felt like it was missing something more from it. Hamill as the Joker was great, but it just didn't feel like it made all of its points clearly. Did I miss something obvious or is this really the extent of the comic as well?
The main stink about the movie is what they did with the first half of the movie with Barbara Gordon and the whole bit with her and Batman and actually not really expanding on her character.   Also the second half of the movie where the Killing Joke was supposed to take place it feels very different from the comic and not in a good way. 

I will leave this video on the differences between the animated Killing Joke and the comic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xRDiUD1a8c
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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Justice League fan remake is ....fine.

The biggest thing I can warn you about is that this is the same as the theatrical release with more fluff thrown in. The story beats are all the same so if you're going in expecting something new (which would be completely understandable as that's how this movie is being promoted) then you're going to be disappointed.

Offline Spak-Spang

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I don't think the overall story was bad, just boring.  What I want to know is does the additional hour + flesh out the characters and make it interesting.  And are the fight scenes better?  The real problem I had also was when Superman flew away from a battle with a villain trying to kill the world to save ONE family.

Why?  If your team mates lose or if you lose the whole world is destroyed.  It basically says, yes we picked the wrong villain and power level for this movie with a godly powerful team.

Offline ThePerm

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As someone who has seen both versions. This one is better. It's paced well and you're more engaged. It isn't terribly different. I would never watch it at a theater. This is long form, and it breathes because of this. It's like a book to movie adaptation where they just decided to do the whole book. It also helps that the villains are more worthy. Like Steppenwolf on the theatrical cut was the stupidest looking villain. He just looked like bad cgi of a guy they could have just been done with practical effects. Here he is a menacing other-worldly creature. Also more characters are more useful. In the old version Flash, and Cyborg are Krillin and  Yamucha. Just side characters. In the Snyder cut they're cool and what they do matters. It's like a song on an album vs a song on the radio. In the radio version they cut out all the solos. This is the In A Gadda Da Vida version of Justice League. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIVe-rZBcm4
« Last Edit: March 19, 2021, 12:04:21 AM by ThePerm »
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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I don't think the overall story was bad, just boring.  What I want to know is does the additional hour + flesh out the characters and make it interesting.  And are the fight scenes better?

There's no question it's a better movie. As Perm mentioned it's got a lot more in it, more context, story and motivation. It feels more meaningful. But when all is said and done it's the same movie. The plot is the same. The story beats are identical. The resolution is the same. Despite the extra meat to the characters though I still didn't give a damn about them.

The fight scenes are generally better - but he bogged them down with so much pointless slow motion. The exception to that is the battle with the Amazons on Themyscira at the start. It was woefully bad. It looked like a schoolyard brawl - or even worse, and Arrowverse fight scene. Thankfully they improved after that.

Offline ThePerm

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The other thing that has to be said is Joss Whedon got that movie down to 2 hours. Which is also amazing. I never disliked the other version too much. There's probably a better version that combines both movies. Some of the stuff Joss Added could easily be cut for more story beats. Like the kid talking to melty face superman on his cell phone at the beginning of the Whedon version. Cut that out.
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Offline Shorty McNostril

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The other thing that has to be said is Joss Whedon got that movie down to 2 hours.

This is something that I feel is going unsaid. We have to remember that Whedon was instructed by WB to have it under two hours and the tone has to be lighter. Whedon did a phenomenal job under those constraints. True - the movie wasn't great but it was an impossible job. There was no way to make a coherent story that introduced several new characters in that time frame. He was in a no win situation but he still jumped in and did it. The finished product is far closer to Snyder's "vision" than the Snyder fanboys would ever admit.

Whedon has handled it like a champ. He's been maligned to hell, watching the internet ragging on his work and blaming him for everything and he's said absolutely nothing to defend himself despite having damn good reasons. Now he's been vindicated. Snyder should be publicly thanking him and sending him a carton of his choice. I think it's very safe to say that had Snyder stayed on and worked under those same constraints the theatrical release would have been far, far worse.

I would also like to add that I say the above as completely separate to all the nonsense going on about him lately (although now I'm less inclined to believe it) - rather focusing on the product he created four years ago exclusively.

Offline Luigi Dude

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Saw the Snyder Cut last night and I really enjoyed it.  It address almost every complaint I had about the Theatrical version and is easily my favorite DCU film.  Of course being 4 hours long does allow it to kind of cheat since Snyder had all the time in the world to give all the characters proper story arc and tell a story that was properly fleshed out.  If this version of Justice League is successful enough, they should let Snyder continue it as as an HBO Max series.  If he need this many hours to make something good, I think his talents would be better spent on multi episode series that would give him more time to show his vision versus theatrical movies that have a 2-2.5 hour limit.

The real problem I had also was when Superman flew away from a battle with a villain trying to kill the world to save ONE family.

I think you'd really enjoy the Snyder cut since that scene was a Whedon creation for the Theatrical version.  In the Snyder cut, once Superman shows up to fight Steppenwolf, he fights him the entire time until the threat is done.  No random civilian BS that need to be saved, it's all action and makes a much more exciting finale as a result.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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If this version of Justice League is successful enough, they should let Snyder continue it as as an HBO Max series.  If he need this many hours to make something good, I think his talents would be better spent on multi episode series that would give him more time to show his vision versus theatrical movies that have a 2-2.5 hour limit.

They could give him the streaming platform, and they can give him the series format, but would they give him the movie budget?

Not everyone (read: nobody else) gonna get that D+ MCU budget to go crazy on special effects and big name actors that they can pull from the movies.

Offline Spak-Spang

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I feel like HBO might be the only platform that MIGHT be able to give that Disney + budget.  I mean HBO has a pretty good record of funding their series well.  Game of Thrones was pretty groundbreaking for special effects on a TV series after all. 

But I would rather give it to the DC animated series team of Young Justice to do a live action show or the original animated Justice league team.

Offline ThePerm

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I rewatched the Sopranos again recently. HBO is probably a better value than Netflix. The classic shows on their channel are good and were way ahead of their time. Netflix only likes to keep shows on for one or two seasons before cancelling them. They produce a lot of **** too. They cancelled Glow and I am not ok with This, which were decent shows, and it makes you wonder what they have for continuance? All they got is Stranger Things and that's on it's last legs.

Probably a small move, but if I were AT&T I'd buy AMC Networks just for their show library. Breaking Bad and Walking Dead were really good shows.  That's one of the main reasons I don't just cancel netflix. The backlog is on there.
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Offline Stratos

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I would also like to add that I say the above as completely separate to all the nonsense going on about him lately (although now I'm less inclined to believe it) - rather focusing on the product he created four years ago exclusively.

I've been half skeptical from the start because of how clearly the callouts were linked to this film and not other things. Fans tend to bleed concepts together and in an effort to defend their preferred film creator latched onto anything and everything to prove their point. The biggest sign though was Gal Gaddot's response. This is the woman who came out swinging to remove Harvey Winestein's company from involvement with WW1984 and the worst she could come up with was that working under Joss Whedon was "not a pleasant experience". That sounds more like direction disagreements or co-workers that didn't see eye-to-eye on things and it could have even not been fully due to Joss --especially with known studio interference mucking things up. If he was truly as terrible as the internet has made him out to be then I'd expect Gal to have been much more forceful and clear in her responses. Whedon could be a huge deuche (sp?) but we may not know it for sure until we get some tangible feedback from people who worked with him on other projects (and I seem to recall the Avengers actors didn't have the same issue with him when asked in response to this stuff). The whole Justice League production was a mess and motives are all muddled up.
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Offline ThePerm

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https://youtu.be/tPMcXoB_rsI?t=262

this Leigh Whannel interview is relevant to toxic directing styles. At the 4:22 mark.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Watched the newest episode of The Flash. Central City Strong Episode 704.  The one that was planned to be the Season 7 premire and it is really good. I like how it addresses the rebuilding back of Central City after the Mirror Monarch pretty much destroyed the city and shattered the lives of the people trapped in the mirrorverse.

This past year has been kinda like a mirrorverse and just everything is slightly off from what it should be and I don't know if it was intentional but the subtext is there for the episode.   

OH also loved the cliffhanger/surprise at the end of the episode.  That is going to be very interesting going forward. 
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Looks like DC aims to have a Big Year next year

https://twitter.com/ReelAnarchy/status/1376313942838898692?s=20

#TheBatman drops March 4
#BlackAdam drops July 29
#TheFlash drops November 4
#Aquaman2 drops December 16

I need to compare this to the MCU release schedule to see who might be blinking or shuffling dates next year.

Offline Spak-Spang

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I have finished all but the epilogue of Zack Snyder's Justice League.  I have to say it is a much better film.  But it isn't a good movie.  It felt excessive like it was a Marvel movie with no restraint.  I will say the beginning of the movie is better than the end, and they did a much better job making a compelling villain, but the end of the day it is forgettable.

Another thing I learned from Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier and ZS's Justice League is making a longer stories really help the storytelling.  I honestly, don't know if I want to watch movies as much anymore because these longer formats are just better for stories.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Expanded story telling through 30-50 minutes shows over 6-10eps, vs a 4hr movie..... I'll take the shows 95% of the time (depends on the movie).

Offline Spak-Spang

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Oh, I agree BnM my statement was just longer stories are better stories giving time for the quiet moments needed to build character or build up the scene or stakes in the movie.  JS Justice League gives Steppenwolf a reason to fight and not an arc but details.  Cyborg and Flash both have more substantial roles with Cyborg getting a real arc and the Flash getting a mini-arc in the movie.  Batman has a redemption arc going.  And Aquaman has a mini arc.  The only characters don't have arcs are Wonder Woman and Superman.  But you can say Superman's mini-arc is him learning that he did bring hope to Earth and deciding it was his home and worth fighting for...and Wonder Woman's support role was to toy in all the other arcs of the other characters so that they happen.   

This could only happen with a stupidly wrong run time for a big action movie.  TV shows need to break down each episode into an arc which can help give direction and purpose for the storytelling and that can really help structure the story and I do prefer this.  But a long epic movie can just thread everything together. 

I am not saying Justice League is a great movie with the Synder Cut, but it is better and if we originally got that movie instead of Joss Whedon's edit, I think we might still have the Synderverse going because it a big, loud movie that was fundamentally different than the Marvel universe.

Offline ThePerm

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As a film it isn't great, as a bingeable series it's pretty decent.

Some stories make great self contained movies that can last two hours, and some stories need that extra time.

If they had broken it up into episodes, which they couldn't do because of contracts and pay, Snyder may have made it more episodic than even it was with the title cards.

It's too bad Warner has declared the Snyderverse done.

If I were Warner I'd be running multiple Batman/DC series. I've always wanted there to be 10 directors each making Batman/DC movies at the same time. Each auteur has added new flavor to the series. The courses have been over-staggered. I could use a plate with more than one item on it. I still want that Ben Affleck written movie with Deathstroke. DC shifted to Matt Reeves because they got skiddish with Affleck after Live By Night tanked even though he directed the Gone Baby Gone, the Town, and Argo. As great as Matt Reeve's The Batman looks like it's going to be it seems like that was an impulsive decision. Porque no los dos? Why not both?  If I were at&T looking for content there would be an HBO original Ben Affleck movie on the way.
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Offline ThePerm

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I like how Sinbad is in this poster, but he isn't listed in the credits. It's like they're nurturing a mandela effect.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Intersting poster.  I didn't like the original Shazam.  I think the movie was tonally a mess.  It was funny and light hearted, but then the villain and effects were too serious and scary to fit the comedic tones and so it felt like a very scary and disturbing children's film.  Then the final scenes when you got used to the serious tone the final fight seemed to go silly. 

Offline ThePerm

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Actually upon a further look the poster is a non official poster. Zachary Levi re-tweeted it though.j

As far as tone goes. It reminded me of Goonies. The Fratellis were scary. A murderous mob family that keeps dead bodies in their restaurant freezer and have a deformed man thing chained up in their basement. It's like the kids went into Texas Chainsaw Massacre and ultimately came out with pirate gold.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Who wants to bet on this poster being better than the actual movie?



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