Topic: The GameCube 10

[Ian Sane]

When Rogue Squadron 3 came out, number 2 was the co-op campaign. Amazing!

Yes that was amazing.  Someday they need to combine Rogue Leader with Rebel Strike's multiplayer to form the definitive version of the game.  Rebel Strike was a rough game with some terrible on-foot segments but the multiplayer made me feel the purchase was worthwhile.  Consider it Rogue Leader disc 2 and ignore the single player campaign.

[Oreanta]

Rogue Squadron II is one of the best-looking Wii games out there... Wait what?

[pureval]

I find it funny, out of all the consoles I own the Gamecube is close to being the one I own the most games for, yet there are so many games on these top 10 lists I have never played. Yet the system has reputation for not having many quality games.


These lists always end up getting me in trouble. I always end up on ebay trying to find deals on the games I missed out on and get in trouble with the wife for buying more games.

[Khushrenada]

Monkey Ball Thoughts

I've never played the original Monkey Ball. I bought the second one and never tried the first because I figured the experience would be the same. Plus, the second one had more multiplayer options so I figured it was a case of the sequel improving on the original. Am I really missing that much if I've played through the second one?

For my money, I think the second is the better option because of it's multiplayer. Monkey Ball Soccer is a great game and I spent a lot of time playing that with friends and my brother. I also enjoyed Monkey Target where you had to fly for points and Monkey Baseball was good also but my brother figured out how a flaw in that so that it completely killed the game.

[Khushrenada]

Rogue Leader Thoughts

As for Rogue Leader, that is still a favorite of mine also. It was the first title I got for the Gamecube and it was my greatest teacher in learning how to handle the new Gamecube controller. It took advantage of what the controller offered. It also is the game that basically revived my interest in gaming. I had stopped playing a lot in the last couple years of the N64. Aside from some multiplayer with my brother like Mario Party or Mario Kart, I didn't really invest much time into games. My brother sort of took over and was the one who would rent games and play a lot more. One game he really loved was the first Rogue Squadron on the N64. He plowed through that game and got all gold medals including the unlockable levels. (In fact, years later, he even got a copy for the PC so he could play it on his laptop.) So, when Rogue Squadron 2 came, it was the number one game to get.

Now, I wasn't that hugely excited about the Gamecube. I mean, a new console still sparked quite a bit of interest in me but I wasn't in anticipation of it. But my first experience was trying out Rogu Squadron in an EB games shortly after the Gamecube launched. The visuals were amazing. Most significantly, just the act of taking the X-wing and doing a barrel roll and seeing the background shift between the Death Star and Yavin IV was incredible. It felt so immersive. I swear, it made my head spin a bit giving it a realistic feeling of actually flying in space. After that, we saved our money and got a Gamecube in February four months after launch. That also makes the Gamecube the second fastest hardware I've ever bought from launch.

My brother got into a pretty competitive spirit playing the game as well. We both had our own save files and it was a race to see who would complete theirs first. Unlike the 64, I suddenly seemed to get the control stick better. I had tried Rogue Squadron on 64 but never got far because I just couldn't seem to fly well. I realized my problem and the reason I had started losing interest gaming was because I was basically crappy at using the control stick before. So, suddenly being able to fly and do combat was an amazing experience. And there were so many great surprises to the game. Taking down my first AT-AT at Hoth. Encountering a Star Destroyer and having to take it down. Flying through Cloud City. And of course, the Battle of Endor. There were times I just liked to fly around and look at all the visuals presented and explore the levels.

In the end, I was able to beat my brother in completing the game first. He had actually unlocked Endurance before me and got a silver medal but I figured out a trick to beating it and then was able to blast through and collect my Ace Medals. After getting the silver medal, he just never seemed interested in playing that long again to go for the gold. I didn't have that problem and got the Ace medal for Endurance and sealed the deal. I got so good at the game, I would just play in cockpit mode which further enhanced my experince of being a top space fighter pilot. Too bad the Millenium Falcon always controlled like crap in these games.

Fun thing I learned a long time ago about the Battle of Endor, instead of flying towards the Death Star and waiting to hear Akbar claim it's a trap, I liked to immediately turn around and travel to the incoming TIE Fighter hordes. Doing so gets them to activate early and they begin attacking the Rogues Capital Ships which are just starting to turn around. This causes lot of the TIE Fighters to crash into them since it gets in the way of their rails and is great way at thinning out the herd fast and allowing you to save more ships to get a better medal. Plus, it just helps add to the chaotic nature a space battle should be. The only other big fault I have with the game is that in the end, it reduces the threat level a Star Destroyer has because. I've taken out so many now, it seems sad that they can't compete against a single X-Wing Fighter.

[Fiendlord_Timmay]

I never really understood why people had such a hard time meeting the 30 day limit in Pikmin. The first time I beat the game, I got all 30 parts in 29 days - and several of those were days specifically dedicated to mass-harvesting pikmin.

And if you fail to get a part, just don't save your progress for the day and reset. Armed with knowledge from your previous attempt, you should be able to get the part more easily the second time.

[Ian Sane]

At E3 2001, while everyone is drooling over SSB Melee, Pikmin was the title I was most excited about.  A large part of the appeal was in the originality of it.  There's a reason I get on Nintendo's butt about new IP: novelty is exciting.  Yeah a new album by one of your favourite bands is exciting but how does it compare to discovering a band you've never heard before?  Or getting into a new TV show?  Or seeing a preview for a brand new movie that immediately catches your eye and makes you want to learn more about it?

Discovery is part of the thrill of Pikmin and it being a new IP only added to that.  EVERYTHING was unexpected!  How better to identify with Olimar.  Pikmin 2 is also an amazing game but both you and Olimar have a better idea of what to expect.  There were less surprises because how could their not be?  Of course with only two games thus far there is still a lot to discover in the world or Pikmin.  By Pikmin 6, however, the world, the concept, everything is going to feel like old hat.  It is just the way things are.

Something like Zelda has turned from a new area to discover to a familiar place you visit on a regular basis.  Sometimes you want that but discovery and novelty is important as well.  The excitement and wonder of thinking about what exactly this Pikmin thing is was a big thrill.  Nintendo has not given me that feeling since and it's been TEN YEARS.  I get that sequels and spinoffs are safe projects with little financial risk but there is a segment of the market that wants to discover a new world and Nintendo is not serving that audience.  Providing safe familiar experiences is valid as well but realistically BOTH needs to be addressed and should be in a balanced way.  Sometimes I want to dwell into the familiar and sometimes I want to discover uncharted territory.  There should be equal opportunities for both.  There are probably few gamers that only want one or the other.  Nintendo usually has two BIG games a year.  Would it be too much to ask that one be new IP and one be an existing franchise?

Regarding the 30 day thing, it was a very progressive and risky design decision.  I kind of like how Pikmin 2 lets you play the game at bit more at your own pace (though you still have the day-night limit).  But I always opperated in such a way that if I didn't get a part, I didn't save.  I restarted the day.  Sometimes that was frustrating but dying in a game and having to continue is really no different.  You fail a mission in Goldeneye, you fail and have to start over even if you weren't killed.  It's no different here, though you can decide if you want to continue as is or not.  In some rare cases I saved without a piece if I had overcome something incredibly difficult like killing off a major enemy.  But even then I only did that if I had had a few days where I found multiple parts to make up for an "unproductive" day.  I think once I had defeated a boss and got a part from him but night was coming fast and I had to abandon the part mere feet away from the ship.  Though it took like 10 seconds to retrieve it the next day, giving ample time to find a new part.  Typically I intentionaly restarted each day at least once so as to allow a day of scouting.  Much of the frustration came about when I had thought I had it all planned out, only to have everything screw up on something I didn't foresee.

One problem with the 30 day limit though is that it forced Nintendo to make a relatively short game and during the Cube launch with it's huge post-launch drought, short games were not ideal.  The timing was poor.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

I think that, for a lot of people playing for the first time, it was difficult to work out how to have productive days. That's the interesting thing about the structure of Pikmin; you could play through a day, collecting nothing and losing a bunch of Pikmin, and you still move forward through the course of the game. It's unconventional in many ways.

Personally, the fact that it was specifically laid out as 30 parts in 30 days made it obvious to me what I should try to achieve on each day. And of course, subsequent playthroughs should be much easier - you get the hang of the world layout and your time management to the point where 3 or 4 parts in one day is totally feasible.

But even after all that, I maintain that all Wollywogs are bastards. There's another quality I love about Pikmin: for all its whimsical nature, I feel it creates a great atmosphere. When you encounter a creature that you know full well can kill many of your Pikmin if you don't approach the fight correctly, it is nerve-wrecking. Especially when it's a damn Wollywog.

[Mop it up]

Star Wars Rogue Leader is the third GameCube game that I bought. The only reason I got it is simply because I wanted another GameCube game, but there was nothing that interested me so I just went with the highest rated one. It wasn't a smart decision, especially because I ended up never playing it and sold it a few years later. I didn't get the time to play it before SSBMelee was released, and once that game came out I didn't see a reason to play any other GameCube game.

There are several reasons I passed on Pikmin at the time, including that I'm not big on strategy games and the time limit didn't help that. I now have the Wii release, though I have yet to play it.

[Fiendlord_Timmay]

Another random thought about Pikmin here: I was listening to some old episodes of RFN, and during the game of the decade feature, Pikmin was nominated by Cai. He mentioned in his nomination that the game was very carefully and intelligently designed around the Gamecube controller. As a testament to this fact, I tried out the new play control version and found it nigh unplayable. Certain actions became very clunky and difficult to manage with the limited input real estate offered by the Wiimote and Nunchuck.

Also, to Ian Sane's point, I think the original Pikmin was far too short, especially considering its only company at the Gamecube launch was similarly brief experiences like Luigi's Mansion. I thoroughly enjoyed Pikmin 2 because I felt it was the full realization of the concept of Pikmin.

And Wollywogs are indeed bastards. They are the biggest impediment to my ultimate goal of achieving a "perfect Pikmin run" (All 30 parts in 9 days, no pikmin deaths).

*Sigh* I love Pikmin. I wish Nintendo would stop teasing us with news of Pikmin 3. Is an official logo too much to ask?!

[Stogi]

I much as I get frustrated from time to time when owning the current console, I always look back fondly once the next generation has been released. The GC is no exception.

From Rogue Squadron to Time Splitters, Pikmin to Wind Waker. The Gamecube had it all; even the best fighters (I'm looking at you Smash Bros., Soul Calibur and Bloody Roar)!

I can't even begin to detail how many hours I played Super Smash Bros. Melee. So many bets, so many tournaments, so many people stripped from their cash.

[MagicCow64]

Snakebirds still give me nightmares.

[Ian Sane]

I never liked SSB on the N64.  The huge hype flowing for SSB Melee prior to release was something I didn't get.  To me SSB was for N64 owners who were ignorant of "real" fighting games.

I rented SSB Melee for my friend's 20th birthday back in 2001, due to it's rave reviews and a lack of Cube titles to play.  I was the only one with a Cube so bringing it to his house was a thrill for him.  My friends and I played it until late at night and had a blast.  There was something different about Melee that made be like it.

I bought it used a few months later after my last final exam for that college semester as a way to reward myself.  My younger brother and I played it non-stop until we unlocked the sound test.  I remember the good times where he would start playing after school (still in high school at the time) and then I would take over after work and we would take turns with the different challenges based on who had the better skills suited for it.  Since then I have never put in that kind of time into a videogame.  It was also a good bonding experience with my youngest brother who I was not as close to as children due to a five year age gap.  As we got older the gap mattered less and we've become close friends and bandmates.  SSB Melee was an early part of the transition from "just brothers" to brothers and friends.

[MagicCow64]

I never liked SSB on the N64.  The huge hype flowing for SSB Melee prior to release was something I didn't get.  To me SSB was for N64 owners who were ignorant of "real" fighting games.

I rented SSB Melee for my friend's 20th birthday back in 2001, due to it's rave reviews and a lack of Cube titles to play.  I was the only one with a Cube so bringing it to his house was a thrill for him.  My friends and I played it until late at night and had a blast.  There was something different about Melee that made be like it.

I bought it used a few months later after my last final exam for that college semester as a way to reward myself.  My younger brother and I played it non-stop until we unlocked the sound test.  I remember the good times where he would start playing after school (still in high school at the time) and then I would take over after work and we would take turns with the different challenges based on who had the better skills suited for it.  Since then I have never put in that kind of time into a videogame.  It was also a good bonding experience with my youngest brother who I was not as close to as children due to a five year age gap.  As we got older the gap mattered less and we've become close friends and bandmates.  SSB Melee was an early part of the transition from "just brothers" to brothers and friends.

Wow, I had an extremely similar experience. Something about the 64 game never clicked for me, but somehow Melee hit the sweet spot, and I ended up playing it all summer with my 4 year younger little brother and bonding over it (Falco vs. Jigglypuff). And, like you, I don't think I've ever put more time into a game. The save file's slot was eventually unbelievable.

[broodwars]

Ugh.  Super Mario Sunshine.  I hated that game on the GameCube.  Between the complete lack of visual variety with the tropical setting and the way it started the now-modern trend in Mario games of 1 star per run through a level (and yeah, the way Yoshi is almost completely useless given how he melts in water...in a tropical island setting), I got so bored playing that game I'm amazed I ever finished it.

[Mop it up]

the way it started the now-modern trend in Mario games of 1 star per run through a level

Super Mario 64 started that, you get a star and you go back to the hub.

[broodwars]

the way it started the now-modern trend in Mario games of 1 star per run through a level

Super Mario 64 started that, you get a star and you go back to the hub.

No, I'm referring to how you picked a star when you entered the world, and then you could ONLY go for that star.  You couldn't sidetrack and pick up a different star if you happened to discover one, and I'm not sure if Sunshine had this as well but in Mario 64 you could grab certain stars and still stay within the world to get the star you came in for.  Sunshine was the start of Nintendo putting a muzzle on player freedom, and I never liked it.

[Mop it up]

Ah, I see what you mean. I can see two sides to that, though. On the positive side, it means that the level has something new and different about it each time you enter it, so you're not always trekking through the same area for every star. But on the other hand, as you say, it removes that exploration element, except for the one or two token hidden stars that appear in most levels.

The only star you could grab in Super Mario 64 without exiting the stage is the 100-coin star. I'm not sure if Sunshine had any like that, I don't recall it having any but I also did not collect 120 shines in it.

As for my own thoughts, I passed on the game at release since I thought the waterpack and the setting were lame. Now, I know a lot of people have said the same thing, but this is coming from someone who likes to clean, so that's really saying something. I didn't buy the game until it reached Player's Choice status, and although I enjoyed it more than I thought I would, I don't regret the wait.

I liked the worlds and waterpack interactions, and the little pure platforming segments were a nice change of pace. But there were signs that the game was rushed, one of which nearly ruined the game. I felt that the number of worlds was lacking, especially with the little variety in settings, but that on its own is manageable. The blue coins, however, were absolutely tedious, brutal, and plain not fun. Not a single one of them. They're the main reason I have never and will never get 120 shines, because it's just too painful and I refuse to spend so much time on something so unenjoyable.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo somewhat had the right idea with Super Mario Sunshine.  They weren't going to just crank out Super Mario 64 2.  They needed to do something different to make the game stand out so we got the waterpack and the island theme.

The problem was that those specific ideas were really lame.  It's a bummer when a company tries to do something innovative and it doesn't work out well.  Too often they get the idea that trying something new or creative was the problem.  They might interpret fan backlash as a reaction to change.  Often it is the specifics of the change.  Nintendo tried new ideas with Wind Waker, got some backlash and played it super-safe with Twilight Princess and got further backlash for THAT.  But with Mario they got backlash for Sunshine and then tried a different new creative idea with Galaxy and everyone loved that game.  Since Galaxy came out later perhaps they actually realized that with TP they had misinterpreted the criticism they received.

Whoever came up with Yoshi melting though is an idiot.  Such a "**** you" to the player.

I do like the exploration element of Super Mario 64 and it is a shame that Nintendo has abandoned that.  The Galaxy games are great but that can't be to only way to go.  Even Super Mario World had its multiple exits.  Mario need not be too linear or straightforward.

[StrawHousePig]

Sunshine is underrated. The shadow world levels were pure platforming bliss. Like the Bowser levels in SM64, only better somehow. I like that they didn't try FLUDD in the Mushroom Kingdom and instead placed it in a side trek. We've had mushrooms and suits and hats that all changed Mario, but this was an accessory. Needing a more strategic approach it was slower paced even though it was more battle oriented, and overall I liked it. Not the best Mario, but no where near as bad as many people decry it.


Animal Crossing was a great experience that I will always remember. The nicest touch was the gyroids. I quickly developed a gyroid jones. Also nice was the NES games. Not sure I'll continue with the next one. I can't get over the proportions of the character being so different.

[oohhboy]

I can't say that I agree having Animal Crossing in there. It not so much of a game than it is a life simulator which in itself would disqualify it. AC doesn't make me think this is a game, it's work. The same thing happened to Nintendogs, it was very cute and makes a good impression, but the limitations win out in the long term. Why not get the real thing except for the fact you can't switch off like a DS and walk away. Why not go outside to explore? I just don't AC think is much of a game.

[ejamer]

I can't say that I agree having Animal Crossing in there. ... I just don't AC think is much of a game.

If you can convince my wife -- who first played the DS version for hundreds of hours, and later played the Wii version for hundreds more hours -- that Animal Crossing isn't much of a game then I'll back your argument. Until then I think it deserves a place on the list.

...

Animal Crossing was a great experience that I will always remember. The nicest touch was the gyroids. I quickly developed a gyroid jones. Also nice was the NES games. Not sure I'll continue with the next one. I can't get over the proportions of the character being so different.

I also loved the NES games in the original. They were great collectibles and whenever a new game was found, it made my day. Shame that Nintendo realized they could sell those games instead of giving them away as free bonuses. The GBA connectivity was also awesome, and I've even got a bunch of the e-Reader cards - including the one that gives you a rare Mario Bros NES game in Animal Crossing.


If not for some interface niggles, the original version would probably be my favorite. Typing and selling goods one at a time are the only things that really hold it back.

[Ceric]

If not for some interface niggles, the original version would probably be my favorite. Typing and selling goods one at a time are the only things that really hold it back.

If you could find one I'm fairly sure AC supported the PSO inspired monster Keyboard Controller.

[UncleBob]

If not for some interface niggles, the original version would probably be my favorite. Typing and selling goods one at a time are the only things that really hold it back.

If you could find one I'm fairly sure AC supported the PSO inspired monster Keyboard Controller.

Nope.

[Ian Sane]

When I first played Animal Crossing it was mindblowing.  I remember playing until really late the first night I had it just to see what would happen at night.  At first the game really is a game.  You want to catch all the insects and fish for example.  That's a clear game with an objective.  After I finished that, however, it became kind of a chore.  I also ran out of space for my house so I starting leaving objects lying around outside.  These weren't items you could buy from Tom Nook, these were the unique items that if I got rid of I couldn't get back.  So it started to look like a dump with trash spread all over.

I also remember rushing to fulfill time limited objectives.  Here I am trying to squeeze in Animal Crossing Halloween and Christmas into the busy days of the real events.  I have a loving family to spend time with at Christmas.  I don't have to spend it with videogame characters BUT if I don't play it at some point that day, I'm essentially missing out on game content.  After either Valentine's Day or Easter I quit the game for good.  It had become a chore.

I don't really like how Nintendo has never really given us a proper sequel.  Counting the original Japan-only N64 release they have re-released the game four times with minimal changes.  But in a way that's good for me personally because there is no incentive to get back in.  If they actually released an Animal Crossing 2 I would probably get hooked again and have to quit again.  And quitting is hard.  You get attached to the characters in your town and even thinking about it now I strangely feel bad for ditching them.