Poll

How many games in the series have you beat?

Professor Layton and the Curious Village
5 (13.9%)
Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box
5 (13.9%)
Professor Layton and the Unwound Future
5 (13.9%)
Professor Layton and the Last Specter
5 (13.9%)
Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask
6 (16.7%)
Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy
3 (8.3%)
Layton's Mystery Journey: Katrielle and the Millionaires' Conspiracy
0 (0%)
Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
3 (8.3%)
I've Completed Every Game Fully (The Few and the Proud)
0 (0%)
I've Never Finished/Played a Game in the Series (The Few and the Not-So-Proud)
4 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: March 23, 2020, 06:58:11 PM

Author Topic: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton  (Read 21824 times)

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Offline Khushrenada

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Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« on: October 25, 2019, 11:32:22 AM »
Hello NWR Forum users. Welcome to the 8th edition of Run the Series, a long running series of threads which is mainly long-running because each new entry seems to take so much longer to get posted since the last one. Of course, you may have thought this thing was dead since the last entry was a year ago. I guess you'll just have to blame October for bringing another dead thing back to life to haunt these forums.


Run the Series Mission Statement

From past posts, I am sometimes surprised at what games users on these forums have played or missed in a franchise and it's made me curious about the gaming habits of all our various users here. It also made curious as to what my gaming experience looks like compared to others. I thought I'd see if I could find out more information on the matter by creating a series of threads designed to look at different franchises found on Nintendo systems to see what series the users here like. What franchises do people still find important to keep up with and what series have they let lapse or play infrequently? What are the franchises people haven't even touched or have fully completed? Which games are the most common shared experience in a series and which ones are the least?

For each entry, I've created a poll and the poll lists all the games considered as franchise entries.* Users can then select which games in the series they have beat. When I mean beat, I'm just referring to completing the main quest or storyline and seeing the credits and not if you've completed every other side quest or mission similar to how Backloggery would classify those terms. This poll is a chance to let all users see how they stack up again users from this forum.

In addition, if you want to provide more information about what your level of completion is on games, feel free to post about it. For that matter, feel free to give your thoughts on the series. Why you play it, why you don't, what's your favorite entry, least favorite entry, how you'd rank the entry in the series, what you'd like to see, what you don't want to see, etc. You know the drill. Whatever comments you want to make based on the series under discussion or specific games in the poll, this thread is open for you to do so.

*Or at least my take on what the series consists of. You are welcome to tell me how wrong I am with my selections.  :'(

Past Entries in the Series

1st Edition - 2D Mario Platformers
2nd Edition - Pokémon Main Series
3rd Edition - Donkey Kong (Country Style)
4th Edition - Wario Platformers
5th Edition - Mario Kart
6th Edition - 2D Zelda Games
7th Edition - Star Fox

If you are new to this forum series and/or you missed an entry and/or have recently played something in the series and now want to comment on it, feel free to check out the past entries and post as desired. Bumping Khushrenada threads is always a welcome practice on these forums.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2019, 06:49:42 PM »
The Series Up for Discussion

Even though the Console and Handheld forums have now merged like Nintendo did with the Switch, I still would like to try and alternate the series but up for discussion between the series that are or contain many entries between console and handheld games. Thus, I thought I'd bring up a handheld series that doesn't get too much discussion these days. (Although maybe that will just result in this thread not getting much discussion either.  :P) That series is the Professor Layton series.

Released back when the DS was red-hot and creating new experiences for handheld gaming with Kirby Canvas Curse, Electroplankton and Brain Age, the creation of the Professor Layton was probably influenced by what was dubbed "casual" games or casual gamers who had seemed to embrace the DS and the different kinds of software being released for it. Professor Layton sort of rode in on the "gaming can be good for your brain" obsession of the time by making a game based around various styles of puzzles and brain teasers. It packaged those puzzles in a point and click mystery story with a bit of a European Animation style flair to provide a bit more puzzling action. Oddly, despite scoring very positively when the first game was released in North America, it would take Lisa Kudrow of all people to help boost sales of Curious Village enough to make NoA feel safe to keep porting over the other entries in the series that were already being released in Japan.

For awhile, from 2007 - 2013, a Professor Layton release was almost a yearly staple. Then Level 5 made a curious decision. It was announced that the namesake of the series, Hershel Layton, would not be featured as the main protagonist in future games. This basically seemed to end the series as nothing else was made for it until 2017 with the release of Layton's Mystery Journal with a new protagonist featured of Katrielle Layton. However, unlike the early Layton games, another sequel with the Lady Layton has been slow in coming.


Why Are These Games Part of the Series?

So far, there have 9 games released for this series in addition to some other media in the form of a movie and tv series. However, we are just focusing on the games of the series for now. There have been two spin-offs of the main series. One has been included in this list of games and one has not. I've included the Professor Layton / Phoenix Wright crossover because it has enough of a Layton element in the game and he's still got a big role. Moreover, there aren't that many Layton games out there to require multiple entries in this Run the Series feature. I'd have included the other spin-off of Layton Bros. Mystery Room if not for one important detail which will now be explained in the next section.


What Games Weren't Included

As the text in the Mission Statement mentions, this is "to look at different franchises found on Nintendo systems to see what series the users here like." Because of the Nintendo focus, I've only been interested in the games of a series that were released on or for Nintendo consoles. Up to this point, that hasn't mattered since it has all been first party games and series. However, if doing something like Castlevania or Sonic then there are games I would leave out of the series listing when doing a thread on them. The games left off would be because those games that weren't released on a Nintendo console but on other systems. So now you know my extra interpretation of the rule. I suppose I could throw a non-Nintendo system game up as an optional choice for extra credit but with polls on these forums always getting the options mixed up later on, I'm just leaving them off. If publishers want us to play and buy these games then they'd better put them on Nintendo hardware or they are dead to us, RIGHT?!  >:(

Because of this, I left off Layton Bros. Mystery Room which was only released for mobile. Lady Layton was released on mobile too but was later brought over to the 3DS and now will soon be on the Switch. If Level-5 wants to bring over Layton Bros. then I'll add it to the list but I highly doubt that is coming and from the reviews of it, it doesn't seem like anyone is missing much by not having the game ported over. However, if anyone has played it and wants to comment on it in their posts then feel free to do so. I'm just not going to include as part of the series for Nintendo gamers to complete.


So, with that quick little rundown, let's open it up to the rest of you forum users and let's see how well NWR has Run the Series!
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2019, 08:16:20 PM »
I've never played a game in the series. I was looking at Ace Attorney vs Professor Layton for a time but I didn't play it.  Closest thing on my radar that is related to Professor Layton at least tangentally is this.  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41mqda
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Offline pokepal148

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2019, 08:53:40 PM »
I played Layton vs Wright and I have the first 3 games on DS but haven't gotten around to them. Capcom did a better job of making Ace Attorney more readily available with a shiny 3DS digital collection than Level 5 did with Layton unfortunately.

Offline ejamer

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2019, 10:05:42 PM »
... Capcom did a better job of making Ace Attorney more readily available with a shiny 3DS digital collection than Level 5 did with Layton unfortunately.

I held out for a long time hoping that a 3DS collection would arrive... but broke down earlier this year and picked up all six of the main Professor Layton games after watching the Professor Layton movie togther with my kids. Layton is a great series of brain teasers, and the delightful production values and cute stories provide a nice framework for each adventure.

Haven't played Last Specter or Azran Legacy yet. Looking forward to both games - so the timing of this Run the Series is excellent since both are on my short list and it's time to pick my next game from the shelves. It'll be hard for either to beat the sublime Unwound Future though!


Did anyone have thoughts about the movie? I was surprised at how true to form it felt, with some puzzles you could try to guess along the way and others that turned into dramatic reveals by Professor Layton. The story was kind of absurd in a charming, Layton-esque way that fit the series extremely well. We found a copy from the local library and would happily watch it again.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 10:13:34 PM by ejamer »
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2019, 01:24:25 AM »
I never saw the movie and actually had forgotten about it until I read your post. I gotta find a way to dig it up.  The cut scenes in the series are really some of the best parts.

I played all the games that aren't about his kids.  I was a big fan of the series.  I think RFN actually convinced me to finally give it a try, and I ended up liking it a lot.  I think it was James who joked that people basically ask you to do their math homework and that was the game.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2019, 07:42:23 AM »
I've played everything apart from Katrielle , which is a shame but maybe the switch version will fix that.

The movie is fantastic and is essentially one long cutscene from the games.

I loved how all the endings to these games (with the exception of maybe the 5th) were bitter sweet. Not a lot of games have the courage to make their endings sad and emotional.

Offline ejamer

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2019, 09:00:04 PM »
...
I loved how all the endings to these games (with the exception of maybe the 5th) were bitter sweet. Not a lot of games have the courage to make their endings sad and emotional.

Agreed!  The stories are all kind of silly and sweet and sad at the same time.  They really did elevate these games beyond a collection of brain-teasers into something I wanted to experience - and of course nobody really remembers the puzzles once they finish, so the stories are crucial to giving the overall games value.

I'm not sure that I loved the "trilogy" approach where you really needed to play multiple games to get the connections between stories - availability of the games wasn't always great, and it just ended up being a really big time/effort commitment if you weren't playing as they got released.  Still, it made things a bit richer for the later entries in each set.

Did you guys like the unlockable games and puzzles?  Did you play beyond the stories?  Although I did spend a bit of extra time with more puzzles, and tried to finish all puzzles in the base game, I didn't always try to experience everything the carts had to offer.  That seems like it could have made each game a huge time sink (in a good way) for completionists, though.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2019, 01:19:31 AM »
I hate you, Khushrenada.

I love Layton and have all the games (even downloaded the Layton Bros. game... never managed to force myself all the way through it though).  I imported two Club Nintendo prizes for Layton (an awesome slip case box for the original trilogy and a... uh... luggage tag.  But I own it.

Anywhoo, this thread had me googling Layton stuff again and I found out there were NFC Charms released in Japan for the Switch version of Millionaires' Conspiracy.

I just threw down $140 to get most of the set imported from Japan.  SUPER is going to order two of them because they don't ship to the US.

You just made me spend $140 on smaller, less functional (probably non-functional in the US Release), less cool looking amiibo.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 02:50:17 AM »
I hate you, Khushrenada.

Well, this thread took a darker turn that I anticipated.

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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 03:18:43 AM »
For myself, I've owned all the Layton games usually getting them within a year of so of their release. As such, I do own all the games on the list. However, I've really taken my time in playing them and spacing them out. But part of that is because:

Did you guys like the unlockable games and puzzles?  Did you play beyond the stories?  Although I did spend a bit of extra time with more puzzles, and tried to finish all puzzles in the base game, I didn't always try to experience everything the carts had to offer.  That seems like it could have made each game a huge time sink (in a good way) for completionists, though.

Yes, I am one of those people / players who downloaded all the extra free puzzles and completed them along with unlocking and playing through all the bonus content and puzzles in a cart. The only extra bonus content I didn't really get into or do much with was the London Life oddity in the Last Specter game.

However, I think that by doing so, I find that I completely get my fill of puzzles for sometime and then it means I need a couple years to pass before I get that itch of wanting to do more puzzles and riddles again.

It came up in the 3DS Top Playtime thread found in this section of the forums but a few months ago, I finally delved into the fifth game Miracle Mask and completed it. That means I've gone through the first 5 leaving just Azran Legacy, vs Phoenix Wright and Layton's Mystery Journal as the only games I've still got to get to.

As of right now, I'd say my ranking of the series is:

5. Diabolical Box
4. Miracle Mask
3. Unwound Future
2. Curious Village
1. Last Specter

I seem to be one of the few people who is not as enamored by Unwound Future's story as much as everyone else seems to be. I may get into some spoiler space regarding my thoughts on these stories yet in this thread but that time will be later in the future. Too much other game discussion I still need to be involved in.

of course nobody really remembers the puzzles once they finish,

I was thinking about this a bit while playing Miracle Mask. There are some types of puzzles that seem like they could pop up in every game like Sliding Block puzzles or Logic Puzzles. It got me wondering whether each game actually has new puzzles or if there are bunch that have been reused exactly or had a different skin put on them. Because of the gaps between games when I've played them, I wouldn't know. I wonder if Level-5 keeps track and knows that themselves. That said, there are some select puzzles that I can remember between games but usually that's because they've had a few variations and show up 4 or 5 times in a game.
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Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 10:01:03 AM »
I'm still salty to this day that PAL territories didn't get London Life

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 10:16:30 AM »
I'm still salty to this day that PAL territories didn't get London Life

For what it's worth, the DS is region free and the game is fairly common in the US second hand market.

I hate you, Khushrenada.

Well, this thread took a darker turn that I anticipated.

What's worse is trying to track down information on these charms.

I *think* I have them all, although I did have to buy a copy of the Japanese game, as it had one included as a preorder bonus.

https://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/layton/

This is about the only real list I've found.  And because Tomy apparently hates me, all the text is in images.  So I had to grab the image file URLs, upload them to an OCR scanner to extract the text, then run that text through Google translate.  It would have been easier to learn Japanese at this point. 🤣
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Offline decoyman

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 06:20:32 PM »
That is master-level collection dedication there, UncleBob. *golfclap*

I love all Layton games I've played, even the weird Bros one that I completely finished, tyvm. Never got to play the other spin-offs, though I did pick up Millionaire's Conspiracy for my niece (maybe I should try to borrow it from her :P)...

But how did I not know there was a movie?!?! =o
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2019, 07:38:16 PM »
...
But how did I not know there was a movie?!?! =o

Definitely track it down if you like the series. Won't blow your mind, but will be a totally enjoyable watch. :)
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2019, 08:57:09 PM »
The movie is *great*.  It's not a cinematic masterpiece, but fans of the series will enjoy it.

I've been watching bootleg subtitled uploads of the spin-off anime and I'm really enjoying it too.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2019, 12:07:47 PM »
The movie has been on my mind of late also because while going through some of the last issues of Nintendo Power for their thoughts on the 3DS VC, there were ads for the Layton movie, usually on the back cover. I had forgotten about it and looking at the ad/poster for it, I see it is set during the time of the second trilogy with Emmy and Descole shown. Having only gotten around to the second trilogy in the past three years, I don't think I even realized the significance of those characters at the time. While I doubt it will spoil anything, I wonder if I should finish the trilogy first before seeing the movie. Does it relate much to what happens in the games?
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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2019, 12:53:58 PM »
Unfortunately I've never played any of these games, so I don't have much to say. I do have two of them, which are Curious Village and The Last Specter, but I've never tried them. Perhaps I'll get to them eventually... maybe...

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2019, 03:48:52 PM »
The movie has been on my mind of late also because while going through some of the last issues of Nintendo Power for their thoughts on the 3DS VC, there were ads for the Layton movie, usually on the back cover. I had forgotten about it and looking at the ad/poster for it, I see it is set during the time of the second trilogy with Emmy and Descole shown. Having only gotten around to the second trilogy in the past three years, I don't think I even realized the significance of those characters at the time. While I doubt it will spoil anything, I wonder if I should finish the trilogy first before seeing the movie. Does it relate much to what happens in the games?
The movie takes place between 4 and 5, so you only need to have played The Last Specter to watch the movie.

Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2019, 06:47:16 PM »
Sweet! I'm good to go.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 10:01:47 PM »


This is on you Khush.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 10:56:26 PM »
You're welcome.

(Why do you have two copies of the movie?)
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 11:03:21 PM »
Ordered the movie when it came out in the UK because they hadn't announced a US release yet.  Bought the US release when it came out in the US because reasons.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 11:41:10 PM »
What's the box above the Lady Layton game?

EDIT: Nevermind. Went back to your earlier post and saw you mention "an awesome slip case box for the original trilogy" so that is probably it. And yeah, storing the original trilogy in that would definitely be the best way to keep those games.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 11:43:55 PM by Khushrenada »
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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 12:11:49 AM »
Yeah, it's the slipcase.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enICZGX7K8g

Sadly, it is an import from the UK - where DS games are in bigger cases because Europe had to overcompensate or something (in reality, I believe it was to allow for thicker manuals in multiple languages).  But this means there's a bit of wiggle room with the NA releases inside.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2019, 08:05:15 AM »
Wow, that slipcase is pretty sweet.  Having a good way to store the set of related games together is a cool idea too.

You are a bit crazy though, tracking down all of the charms!  :D
(Not that I'm jealous or anything...)

Playing through The Last Specter now, and still really enjoying this series. Even when the puzzles are a bit hit and miss, the great art design and overall sense of style helps draw you in, and the silly mystery stories are a lot of fun. Top notch games!
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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 09:54:42 AM »
I think that's where the first, maybe four?, games succeed so well, the fifth and sixth games struggle and, unfortunately, Katrielle really comes up short.

There's always going to be hit or miss puzzles.  Maybe it's something too similar to a bunch of previous puzzles.  Maybe it's just something that doesn't click with a specific type of player.  Maybe it's just a bad puzzle.

The first four-or-so games are so charming, with the music, the art style, the cast of characters, and even the over the top storylines that you're willing to muscle through a few sluggish puzzles here and there to keep going.

But when you get to playing a game where the story is meh or you start disliking the main characters (personally, I began disliking Luke in TLS), the "bad" puzzles just become more of a chore.

I think that's why Katrielle has performed poorly.  The very loosely interconnected stories, none of the main characters are all that great (Ernest being downright intolerable), and even the art by way of character designs seems a bit... bland.  Why play through some mediocre puzzles when we never even solve Katri's first case ("Any Mystery Solved" my ass.)  And this all comes from someone who enjoyed the game. 🤣
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 09:59:08 AM »
Double post because it keeps giving me an error when I try to edit..

If you want a bunch of puzzles without all the filler, you can always get:
https://www.amazon.com/Matchstick-Nintendo-DS/dp/B001FB6I40
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Offline ejamer

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 01:12:23 PM »
I think that's where the first, maybe four?, games succeed so well, the fifth and sixth games struggle and, unfortunately, Katrielle really comes up short.
...

This sounds reasonable - I really enjoyed the first three games a great deal, but found Miracle Mask (#5) a bit of a let down because for whatever reason I just couldn't get into the story.

At the time, I just assumed it was due to playing too many games from the series and getting tired of the formula they use. Now I'm less sure. Was it me, or did the game just lose some of the detail and charm that older entries had? Moving to the more powerful 3DS handheld did let them improve visuals, but maybe they spent more time/effort/money on visuals than other aspects of the story and presentation?
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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2019, 06:58:42 PM »
Well, having finally played and beat Miracle Mask a few months, my thoughts are relatively fresh on it so allow me to weigh in with my thoughts since I also rated Miracle Mask on the lower end of the series.

First off all, the game does have some nice improvements over the DS games. I like that the 3D effect is used and the visuals have been upgraded from the DS so the game’s graphics stood out to me while still keeping that same Layton style. As well, the game introduced a curser you have to move over environments to alert you to points of interest. No more tapping around on every millimeter of the screen to find Picrats or hidden puzzles. The puzzles are the usual affair. Nothing really revelatory there. Music is good. I liked the main night theme when searching through Monte d’Or. On a technical level, I really don’t have anything negative I can point to and am quite positive about that side of it.

The main problem is the story. That’s the biggest glaring weakness to me which is a shame because it has a good hook to get you into it at first. There are multiple problems, however, that combine to bring it down. I'm going to dive into and things will be absolutely spoiled about this story. So, if you plan on playing at some point, I'm warning you know that while I'm still going to keep some things vague there will be other specifically spoiled and discussed.

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2019, 06:59:09 PM »
The first thing I’d point to is that it isn’t quite a standalone story. Unlike past Layton games, this one begins to set-up the story and introduce characters that have little to do with the Monte d’Or story in preparation for Hershel’s next and last game with Azran legacy. In fact, the game even sort of ends with a cliffhanger animation of the mysterious new villain facing off against Descole and raising questions as to what their pasts and motivations are. As such, it makes the Miracle Mask mystery come off as a minor diversion or side quest in the face of a much larger threat.

At the same time, Miracle Mask adds to that feeling of this game being a minor Layton mystery by not really being all that mysterious. There’s usually 10 mysteries that the game considers important in solving. In this case, there is stuff like the secret of the Mask of Chaos, what is the identity of the Masked Gentleman, how did he pull off this miracle. One of the biggest ones is the identity of the Masked Gentleman but that is pretty much clear by the time you finish Chapter 2 of the story or at least you should have a very strong suspect in mind. The game also splits the story a bit by almost doing two stories with the second acting as a bit of a Layton origin story and tying that into the current story events. While it was sort of neat to see a different style of Layton at first, it ultimately doesn’t do too much to flesh out his character. Moreover, the flashbacks center around the tragedy of Randall so you are playing them out for that moment to occur. Yet, it is hard to care that much about it since, again, the game is making it quite clear that Randall is the Masked Gentleman. Thus, the emotional beats for the flashbacks and Randall tragedy don’t really land because they are not going to have any permanence. Truthfully, I was really hoping that Randall being the masked gentleman was going to be a big misdirect but as the story progressed, the possibilities for who else could be the gentleman continued to shrink.

On top of that, there are just all sorts of weird loose ends and stuff that seems to go nowhere. Layton’s mother is worried because strange men seemed insistent on having his father show them the ruins outside of town. Then the father later says the mother just overreacted and nothing  is brought up about it again. So, was it a false alarm or was it significant? There’s a hoodlum you meet on the way to Henry’s home when you first travel in Monte d’or. The hoodlum seems to imply he’s got business with Henry and Angela or at least that’s what I thought from the initial conversation. The hoodlum also a partner who’s got the crescent moon shaped head. You encounter a few more times in the game but, in the end, they seem to have no connection with anybody. They aren’t working for Henry or his rival or Descole or the other new villain introduced. They’re just a couple ruffians in town, I guess. The Scotland Yard detective sort of disappears after awhile and then just shows up once near the end in a quick animated scene which is the first glimpse of Descole’s rival. (Which is a shame because I was hoping that he might be the Masked Gentleman and pretending to Randall to throw everyone off the scent.)

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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 06:59:23 PM »
There’s more I could get into about the story beats but this enough to show how the plotting in this game just comes off as weirdly unfocused creating a lot of headscratching moments with things that seem like they could be significant but then aren’t. Without those distractions, the end result is that the actual main story of Randall and his revenge plays out in a pretty basic fashion and an already thin story in that regard is stretched out longer than it maybe should have been. Actually, let’s add story pacing as another sort of issue. In Chapter 3, when Layton meets up with the Scotland Yard detectives, there’s a long spiel as the break down what the Masked Gentleman’s miracles have been and solve most of them. After that, it’s just chasing after the Masked Gentleman and waiting for the characters to unmask him. I think it is Chapter 6 where past Layton and Randall go through the cave system to find the Azran treasure. When first playing it, I appreciated the designers trying to incorporate new ways to play to keep things fresh. It is a bit like going through a 2D Zelda Dungeon. The problem is that it is a very basic Zelda Dungeon. Although the game tries to include puzzles of pushing and rolling boulders and defeating enemies to advance from room to room, these puzzles are just not very challenging or fun. Before long, I began wondering just how much longer this section was going to go on and it wears out its appeal probably halfway through.

So, let’s see, pacing issues in how the story plays out and is developed, unfocused in that the game seems to be looking ahead to the next story rather than the one it is telling now with elements that seem to go nowhere and underwhelming in the story it does tell. I appreciate that they tried for a more happy ending this time compared to some of the more bittersweet / downer endings previous games had but by the time it took to get to the ending, it was more meh than moving. Descole makes a very late appearance to reveal his machinations on the story and, after waiting for him to show up for most of the game, it is also an underwhelming appearance compared to Don Paolo’s surprises in the first three. Layton’s end revelation with Monty lands as a thud because Monty just seems to be added in the last chapter near the end and suddenly he’s an important piece to everything. Layton’s past is kind of underwhelming and there’s a lot more that could have been done there. If his hometown basically became a ghost town over time with a lot of the residents moving to Monte d’Or then what happened to his parents? How does he feel about that? If Randall’s family went bankrupt by continuing to search for him then why not tell them about the treasure that Randall had died to acquire and he found? (Because then there wouldn’t be a mystery of how Henry got his wealth and founded Monte d’Or.)

I know Layton mysteries dig into the fantastical with some of their solutions or elements in the case so it isn’t worth getting that hung up on story details. The difference is that the previous games were self-contained and not acting like a prologue for the next game and they moved smoothly enough that they made enough sense in how they progressed that the player doesn’t start questioning every detail and confused about what is relevant and what isn’t in the story. Yet, I will say that (aside from maybe the first game) I did end this game wanting to jump right into the next Layton game which isn’t something the Layton series usually fosters in me when I wrap things up. Heck, even most games in other franchises don’t usually create a feeling in me of wanting to play another or next entry right away. So, if the developers were looking for ways to keep players engaged in buying and playing the next entry then mission accomplished. Unfortunately, it also means you walk away from Miracle Mask thinking it was an ok game but not as good as what came before since it leaves you feeling the story is incomplete with the real story / mystery to come in the next game.


Anyways, there’s my manifesto on Miracle Mask. There’s been a lot I’ve kept on mind about the game since I’ve meant to do a Pietriots review for it when I finished but have just never found a way to really put my thoughts together on it in a way that pleases me. So, thanks for bringing it up. This is your fault Unclebob ejamer.
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Re: Run The Series 8: Professor Layton
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2019, 10:30:11 PM »
Woot woot!  Finished playing through Layton and the Last Specter. Overall, it was solid and probably sits third out of the five games I've played (all being good titles overall).

Technically, I think this game shows a nice, steady improvement over previous entries in the series. The presentation is lovely (as expected) and the music was particularly good in my opinion - although I'm a sucker for music from all of the Layton games.  Puzzles were a mixed bag, with a few too many "just move stuff around until you find the solution" for my liking... but mostly avoided having silly trick questions that were obscured by poor or unusual wording. (It's been a while since playing any Layton games, but I remember some puzzles like that in other games from the series.)

The only thing really holding this game back in my opinion was the feeling that some of the key story points were rushed or missing. In particular, I felt like there wasn't nearly enough weight given to the plight of the children or the relationship the forged with their special friend. Even though some of that is by design - and expected as part of the big "reveal" sequences that always happen in Layton games - it felt like the writers could have taken a few sentences here or there to build background that would have added emotional depth to the sad events at game end... instead they end up being throw-away dramatics.

There are other moments and characters that seemed disappointing. Clark being played too straight for far too long, but then sending them to the cellar to find... nothing? And if he knew what was there, why is playing along anyway? The piping around town really felt like it should have had a better payoff, the excavation site was downplayed (more accurately: ignored) to the point it might as well have not existed, etc. None of these are deal-breakers though - it's just a consistent sense that things could have been slightly better in how the story was revealed.

That said, there is much to like about the game. I rather enjoyed having Emmy in the game, and felt like they did a pretty good job balancing the three protagonists. The overall plot was pretty good, and while they made it very clear this is the first part of a larger plot there weren't so many threads tied to future games that you feel like the experience was rushed or incomplete.

What's interesting to me now is reading Khushrenada's comments about Miracle Mask - which I generally agree with - and thinking about how they compare to what I just experienced. In almost all aspects (outside of presentation), I'd argue that The Last Specter was a better game.  It leaves me kind of nervous to play Azran Legacy though... will that game also be a disappointment, of will the "middle games" of both Layton trilogies be the weakest points?


The good news for me is that Last Specter left me excited for more. I want to re-watch The Eternal Diva now. Diving into another Layton game is something I'd happily do before long, after a short break to avoid puzzle fatigue. But should I play Miracle Mask again to refresh the story in my mind? Or maybe just watch relevant cut scenes on YouTube and move forward with Azran?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 10:33:49 PM by ejamer »
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