Author Topic: No PSP, please!!  (Read 9253 times)

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Offline mouse_clicker

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No PSP, please!!
« on: May 21, 2003, 03:25:34 PM »
I was reading through IGNPocket's mailbag when I came across this comment on the PSP and Nintendo by resident editor Craig:

"Nintendo's been pretty much the Lone Ranger in the handheld gaming market, and a serious boot from Sony is actually a good thing."

How the HELL is another handheld a good idea? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it'll make Nintendo less of a monopolizing company with handhelds, but the LAST thing I want is another system to buy just so I can play all the good games. That's one of the worst things about the home console sector- it's so visciously divided you almost have to own every console to play all the good games, and that's expensive. And now with everybody and their mother wanting a piece of the videogame console business, it's only dividing things up even MORE. I liked the NES days- people say competition makes people do better, but some of Nintendo's best games were on the NES, and that was the ONLY console you had to own that generation to really enjoy everything. Now you have to own 3, and that's a huge hit on the wallet. The handheld market was at least a bastion of the past in which the GameBoy was the only console you had to own to get the most out of handheld games. And now we're going to have to buy a PSP n top of that? I understand both Sony and Nintendo want to add to their stock pile of more-money-than-we-could-ever-dream-of, but your average Joe Gamer isn't a millionaire, and we need some sort of standardization to make videogames truly accessible to everybody, including those of low income. It's like having two different types of CD's and having certain bands release their albums only on one type of CD- utter chaos. I agree that Nintendo needs a swift kick in the but to get them to stop acting like a stereotypical monopoly with the GameBoy, but if the handheld market gets divided between two consoles, I can only see the state of games declining.
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Offline PIAC

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2003, 06:13:46 PM »
i just fear the death of 2d games i love my top down RPG's ala golden sun or side scrollers like Metroid Fusion

and if sony ends up bringing out this homeconsole in a handheld, then all i can see is the trajic loss of 2d games

Offline aoi tsuki

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2003, 07:33:44 AM »
Quote

The handheld market was at least a bastion of the past in which the GameBoy was the only console you had to own to get the most out of handheld games.


i guess that means you were never a fan of the Game Gear, Lynx, or Neo Geo Pocket. These systems weren't as prolific as any iteration of the Gameboy, but they still had a solid enough library of games to warrant me to purchase one.  

i see it as a good thing for publishers, as profit margins for GBA are supposedly very low due largely to cart costs Nintendo's fees, in addition to development and marketing fees.  

i too, am saddened by what'll likely be yet another nail in 2D gaming's coffin, especially with the growing selection of excellent GBA games. i'm hoping that more powerful hardware will yield even better 2D games, even if the improvement is only graphical.

Frankly, i hope the PSP spanks the GBA. Seriously. i want Nintendo to be forced to release some of their best games in years (although Made in Wario is a great start), and to release a handheld that can one up PSP. i also want to see what type of innovations Sony will bring to the market. i've got a feeling that PSP will go a bit beyond the standard handheld and into a more general entertainment device, with music and video playback. i want the same type of capabilities while playing Nintendo's games.
"Snake felt a hunger for Meryl blossom within his loins."

Offline codyy

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2003, 11:16:13 AM »
PSP sounds like a portable PSOne to me. Why would Sony want to dip into this market? They're making plenty of money on PS2, so why would they want a portable device. Do they hate Nintendo that much? I believe I know the answer: They are afraid. Afraid that Nintendo will rise from the ashes and become a market leader, and give them a run for their money. I'm convinced that about 80% of people who own a Playstation own it for Grand Theft Auto and that's it. They might go out and buy say, Lord of the Rings, only because they saw the movie (though the game is quite good). The public is a fickle bunch, and moods change very quickly, Grand Theft Auto today, something else tommorrow. Grand Theft Auto will eventually lose popularity, maybe something like only a million copies being sold. This happened to some of the Nintendo Franchises, that are a whole lot better than Grand Theft Auto, but sell much less. Sony knows this and this is a step to try to take Nintendo down now-and not have to deal with them in future. Nintendo may not be system of choice now, but that could change. What worries me is if Sony gets a Grand Theft Auto game like GTA3 on it. That could swing the public easily. Either this thing will flop, or be like Xbox and stick around, being a thorn in Nintendo's side. The older Xbox gets, the better games there are, and that is something to watch out for.
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream to dream before
But the silence was unbroken, and the darkness gave no token..."
--Edgar Allen Poe, The Raven, 1845.

To liberals everywhere: HA!

Offline mouse_clicker

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2003, 12:18:01 PM »
"i guess that means you were never a fan of the Game Gear, Lynx, or Neo Geo Pocket. These systems weren't as prolific as any iteration of the Gameboy, but they still had a solid enough library of games to warrant me to purchase one."

The Game Gear, Lynx, and Neo Geo Color, along with the WonderSwan, are all long dead. The GameBoy has been the handheld standard pretty much since it's release.

"i see it as a good thing for publishers, as profit margins for GBA are supposedly very low due largely to cart costs Nintendo's fees, in addition to development and marketing fees."

Yes, yes- I mentioned all that before. Nintendo should definitely go easy on developers, but I'm still going to buy GBA games no matter what. Maybe 3rd-parties should unionize or something, but I'm quite simply not open to the prospect of another major handheld to spend money on.

"i too, am saddened by what'll likely be yet another nail in 2D gaming's coffin, especially with the growing selection of excellent GBA games. i'm hoping that more powerful hardware will yield even better 2D games, even if the improvement is only graphical."

I agree 100%- 3D games are great today, but there's those special games out there that really shine when done in 2D. Since handhelds have historically been restricted to 2D by power constraints, they had a plethora of superb 2D games to pick from. If handhelds make the transition into 3D, it'll just be like a TV-less Gamecube, XBox, or PS2.

"Frankly, i hope the PSP spanks the GBA. Seriously. i want Nintendo to be forced to release some of their best games in years (although Made in Wario is a great start), and to release a handheld that can one up PSP. i also want to see what type of innovations Sony will bring to the market. i've got a feeling that PSP will go a bit beyond the standard handheld and into a more general entertainment device, with music and video playback. i want the same type of capabilities while playing Nintendo's games."

Frankly, I hope Sony is sent running away with it's tail between it's legs. It's all fine dandy that Sony wants more money, but if it's the cost of industry standardization, I say F**K YOU, SONY! The GBA's already got great games- Golden Sun 1 and 2 are some of my favorite RPG's ever, and I really don't think Nintendo needs competition to bring out there best. Like I said, look at the NES- some of the best games ever made were NES titles and yet it had no real competition. Competition only makes developers resort to making games for the sole purpouse of marketting- we're in a generation with 3 major home consolesand yet we're seeing some of the crappiest games ever made being released every day.

And screw having video and music playback, too- I don't want to have to spend $300 on a multimedia machine that can do my taxes when all I want to use it for is play games. Sure, release add-ons that'll toast my breadm but don't force extra features on me I don't want. GAMING is GAMING and nothing else- I don't like it being incorporated into other forms of media.
"You know you're being too serious when Mouse tells you to lighten up... ^_^"<BR>-Bill

Offline kennyb27

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2003, 02:32:40 PM »
Quote

PSP sounds like a portable PSOne to me.
That's because...well, it is.  
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Offline Ace

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2003, 06:34:41 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: kennyb27
Quote

PSP sounds like a portable PSOne to me.
That's because...well, it is.


Correction kenny, It is, minus the ability to play PSOne
You say fanboy like it's a bad thing

Offline aoi tsuki

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2003, 07:46:34 PM »
Quote

The Game Gear, Lynx, and Neo Geo Color, along with the WonderSwan, are all long dead. The GameBoy has been the handheld standard pretty much since it's release.


Yes, they're long dead, but the point i was trying to make was that these consoles all competed with the Gameboy. Since the TurboExpress there's always been a competitor with the Gameboy, and there's always been a choice to make. i didn't mention the WonderSwan because it was only released in Japan, and in my opinion, lacked a number of top notch titles.

Quote

And screw having video and music playback, too- I don't want to have to spend $300 on a multimedia machine that can do my taxes when all I want to use it for is play games. Sure, release add-ons that'll toast my breadm but don't force extra features on me I don't want. GAMING is GAMING and nothing else- I don't like it being incorporated into other forms of media.


i won't go into stunted speculatory rant about how the PSP is a portable entertainment device -- i did that on the other two PSP-related threads. i'm personally all for that sort of convergence, given that the device, if it's a primarily a game system, is designed for games (in both terms of ergonomics and internal hardware) and has a library of solid games. Is there really that big a fundamental difference between the GBA and PSP? Both systems have CPUs that are capable of processing data, just as they have displays and a speaker (speakers in the case of PSP) to output video and sound. The data could be in the form of a game, music, video, etc. Granted, PSP seems to be more capable in terms of multimedia, but if Nintendo wanted, they could've touted GBA as a multmedia device.

Quote

GAMING is GAMING and nothing else- I don't like it being incorporated into other forms of media.


And how many CD based systems played music CDs? If the technology supports it, and the feature is relevant enough to a game system, why not put it in?

Like i explained in my example above, game systems are powerful enough to do more than just games, to move into other forms of entertainment and other functions entirely. Just how hard do you think it is for PS2 and Xbox to play DVD movies? Had Nintendo gone with a standard DVD drive in the Gamecube, i would've been sorely disappointed if they didn't allow DVD playback. It's not that i look for those sort of features in a game system, but again, if the technology is in the box, why not?

i think i understand what you're saying about the plethora of console gaming solutions. Gamecube is my only next gen system (unless you count Dreamcast), so my recent gaming purchases are pretty simple. In a few months, i'll have a PS2, and likely an Xbox a few months after that. i don't look forward to having more systems to plop $49.99 on each month, but i do look forward to the new experiences i can get with games on those systems. Similarly, i don't like having to buy another handheld. Honestly, i don't like the familiarity of a Gameboy-only US market being threatened, especially by a company competent in marketing their products (unlike Gameboys other competiors) . i do however, like what Sony could bring to the table. It's late, and my speculation (speculatory?) glands are still sore from a two-hour conversation at EB about this very subject, so i won't bother saying what Sony could bring.  

Interesting times...  
"Snake felt a hunger for Meryl blossom within his loins."

Offline mouse_clicker

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2003, 03:36:43 AM »
"Yes, they're long dead, but the point i was trying to make was that these consoles all competed with the Gameboy. Since the TurboExpress there's always been a competitor with the Gameboy, and there's always been a choice to make. i didn't mention the WonderSwan because it was only released in Japan, and in my opinion, lacked a number of top notch titles."

I understand that- and the point I was making was that those handhelds never provided ACTUAL competition- all were destroyed by the GameBoy fairly quickly and most people didn't care enough about them to even consider buying them.

And if it doesn't add any cost to the console, having a few extra features like DVD playback is great, but like I said, I don't want to have to drop an extra $150 just so my PSP can play MP3's, a feature I'll never use. If Sony wants to release a $150 add-on that lets the PSP play MP3's, that's great, but don't force me to pay for something other than a gaming machine, because that's all I want, and that's all most people want, I'm sure. People like Sony and MS need to realize that consoles should first and foremost being gaming machines- any extras should be afterthoughts. In otherwords, having a console that plays DVD's is okay (as long as it's not too expensive), but when they start making a DVD player that plays games, they've gone too far.
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Offline ActorJ

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2003, 09:06:00 AM »
this is a really foolish topic. I have seen quite a few foolish comments from you, so I am not all that surprised.

Competition is never anything but good for the games industry. Competition forces innovation. You are wrong to suggest that Gameboy has never had any competition, and that Gameboy has been the only system you needed for handheld games. GameGear may not have outlasted the Gameboy, but it certainly wasn't a failure. It amassed a huge libaray of games, was the only place where you could play Sonic, or Shining Force on the go. If you had the master gear converter, you added 100s more games to the mix. NES had not competition? Well I guess you were just to young to realize that the master system was major competition for the NES, not so much in NA, but in Europe. If the Genesis had never been made then Nintendo woud have sat on thier asses sucking the last drop of life out of the NES for another two years. Gameboy was the only system you needed for handhelds games in the face of Wonderswan, and Neo Geo pocket. Well I guess you don't care about those very cool Final Fantasyremakes, or the great SNK games on the NGPC. But I sure did, and I was very sorry not to see the WS released in north America.

As for the current console generation, If it wasn't for having 3 systems, PS2 would still be $299. We'd all be stuck playing our games with the lousy dual shock controller instead of the very great GC controller, and the pretty damn good Xbox controller S. Sure I don much like having to buy 3 systems, the the idea that I have to by 3 systems is a little silly anyway. There are more than enough great games for any of the systems to keep me occupied, given that I have to find time for work and college at the same time. I played Halo, I didn't find it that great. I would like to have more RPGs for GC, but I rarely have time for them anyway.

I play my GBA most because it's what I have time for. I like it, but I always feela little disapointed everytime I play it. It could have been so much more. Competition in the handheld realms is good no matter how you slice it. You will never be forced to buy it, and since it is so far out of the leagure of GBA, it's doubtful that games destined for GBA will suddenly go to PSP instead.  

Offline aoi tsuki

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2003, 09:16:56 AM »
Look at it this way - If PSP plays games, music, movies, and costs $300, it's simply not a system you'll buy. If it met my needs, i certainly would, as would others. Sony's not going to shoot themselves in the foot with a cost that high, though.

Also, to add to my "if the technology is in the box" comments, i forgot to mention possible licensing fees involved. i'm not sure how this works for each technology, but adding MPEG support (like MPEG-2 used in DVD playback) in a game system could result in the system manufacturer having to pay additional fees, which often get passed down to the consumer.
"Snake felt a hunger for Meryl blossom within his loins."

Offline ActorJ

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2003, 12:47:25 PM »
what purpose would mpeg 2 playback serve when the system already has the more advanced mpeg 4? compatability with DVD? Sorry, but that would be pointless. first of all 1.8gb is not enough for a full lenght movie anyway, secondly, do you honeslty think that movie studio are going to release movies on a proprietroy sony format? Not gonna happen.


Offline aoi tsuki

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2003, 01:07:41 PM »
i was referring to MPEG-2 used in playback on DVD systems. MPEG-4 is a great format for a portable device like the PSP. Also, 1.8GB is plenty of space for a full length movie using any current codec, especially at the PSP's resolution.

Do i think we'll see movies in the proprietary PSP format? Possibly. It won't reach the popularity of DVD, but i wouldn't be surprised to see a Sony Pictures release for PSP (in Japan). Sony's released premastered  Minidiscs over the years; i wouldn't be surprised to see them release a few non-game UMDs over the years.
"Snake felt a hunger for Meryl blossom within his loins."

Offline Samwise Gamgee

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2003, 09:02:13 PM »
u know what? its just the way these things go!
wen sega and nintendo were fighting it out! nintedo had gameboy, sega released gamegear! a system that was actualy alot better than the gameboy! but nintendo won cuz they were in the lead

so meh, now we get to today, nintendo is fighting sony! sony is winning and sees the potential in the hand held market! and tey feel that once again they can beat nintendo at its own game! they think they can take the handheld market and take it from nintendo!

its a pretty smart move by sony!
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Offline ActorJ

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2003, 09:34:42 AM »
for god's sake samwise, leanr to spell. Reading your posts is like reading the MSN messanger conversations of a 12 year old girl.

Offline PIAC

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2003, 02:06:25 PM »
ahem ActorJ you spelt 'learn' wrong, its 'learn' not 'leanr'

Offline mouse_clicker

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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2003, 05:23:50 PM »
"this is a really foolish topic. I have seen quite a few foolish comments from you, so I am not all that surprised."

Oh, what a great way to start off your opinion- a personal shot at me. ::rollseyes:: Have any other encouraging comments for me, Actor? You know I live by them.

"Competition is never anything but good for the games industry. Competition forces innovation."

Never say never- you should know that. I realize competition is very important for innovation- I didn't said it wasn't, so don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out the fact that the NES had a plethora of incredibly good games despite it's lack of competition and today good games are pretty rare, despite having 3 major consoles. Competition shouldn't have to be between consoles- it should be between developers. On the NES Nintendo's games were so good 3rd-parties had to work that much harder to get their games noticed, and it really showed. Nowadays, everybody's slacked off and a game will sell on marketing rather than actual quality. Competition certainly isn't helping THOSE games, is it?

"You are wrong to suggest that Gameboy has never had any competition, and that Gameboy has been the only system you needed for handheld games. GameGear may not have outlasted the Gameboy, but it certainly wasn't a failure."

Try reading my extra posts before replying- I've already responded to this very comment. Yes, the Game Gear presented competition, but it was crushed by the GameBoy very quickly. I realize it had some great games, but if you look at THE handheld to own since they were invented, to say anything other than the GameBoy shows you're missing a few vital brain cells. THAT'S my point.

And obviously all those other features you mention about the GameGear didn't help it out too much.

"NES had not competition? Well I guess you were just to young to realize that the master system was major competition for the NES, not so much in NA, but in Europe."

You really enjoy pissing me off, don't you? I know very well about the Master System- a few of my friends own one, but to consider it anything but a little dog nipping at the NES's heels is ludicrous. It wasn't competition, period. Also, next time you want to make me look stupid because I'm young and you smarter because you're older, use the right form of "to". You were missing an O.

"If the Genesis had never been made then Nintendo would have sat on their asses sucking the last drop of life out of the NES for another two years."

Yes, yes, I realize all this- it all goes back to how you think I'm telling you competition doesn't do diddly squat for games, which is wrong. I'm glad the Genesis made Nintendo get off their asses, but obviously you missed the *entire* point of my post. If you haven't caught on by now, maybe you shouldn't be the one calling me foolish.

"Gameboy was the only system you needed for handhelds games in the face of Wonderswan, and Neo Geo pocket. Well I guess you don't care about those very cool Final Fantasyremakes, or the great SNK games on the NGPC. But I sure did, and I was very sorry not to see the WS released in north America."

And obviously neither did most of the world, since both the WonderSwan and NGPC are dead no (as was SNK for a while). Those Final Fantasy Remakes may have been cool, but the GameBoy was still the console to own. I understand you enjoy dropping a fat load of cash on an import system to play a few games, but mainstream culture disagrees.

The rest of your post kinda trailed off, so I won't comment on that. Seriously, though, I think you need to read my first post again and this time don't be thinking up of ways to bash me while doing so- I think you'll actually find I have a much different point than you thought I had.
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Offline Uncle Rich AiAi

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« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2003, 05:02:38 AM »
I've said this on the other PSP threads, but I'll say it again since I have a strong opinion about it.

I agree with PIAC and mouse_clicker, I fear the death of 2D gaming.  It is the reason I own a GBA.  I really enjoyed Golden Sun and Zelda: A Link to the Past.  And am looking forward to Wario Ware and playing Super Mario Bros. 3 again.  Not to forget I'm still looking for Puyo Pop.  The GBA shows that 2D gaming is far from over.

If Sony buries this dimension of gaming, F**K THEM TO HELL.  And they will never get a single penny from me.

Offline ActorJ

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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2003, 12:02:31 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker


Never say never- you should know that. I realize competition is very important for innovation- I didn't said it wasn't, so don't put words in my mouth. I was pointing out the fact that the NES had a plethora of incredibly good games despite it's lack of competition and today good games are pretty rare, despite having 3 major consoles. Competition shouldn't have to be between consoles- it should be between developers. On the NES Nintendo's games were so good 3rd-parties had to work that much harder to get their games noticed, and it really showed. Nowadays, everybody's slacked off and a game will sell on marketing rather than actual quality. Competition certainly isn't helping THOSE games, is it?


Competion for the best games did, and still does work between developers. Now we have an extra wrinkle in that there is competition between console makers to get those developers on board, something we didn't have back in the days of Nintendo's strong arm tactics.

However, the point I made was that even though there were many good games on the NES, were it not for Sega's Genesis really taking off, Nintendo would have stuck with the NES for another three years. They were in no hurry to come up with something better. ALso, there are the finacial benefits of competition that you cannot ignore.


Quote

"You are wrong to suggest that Gameboy has never had any competition, and that Gameboy has been the only system you needed for handheld games. GameGear may not have outlasted the Gameboy, but it certainly wasn't a failure."

Try reading my extra posts before replying- I've already responded to this very comment. Yes, the Game Gear presented competition, but it was crushed by the GameBoy very quickly. I realize it had some great games, but if you look at THE handheld to own since they were invented, to say anything other than the GameBoy shows you're missing a few vital brain cells. THAT'S my point.

And obviously all those other features you mention about the GameGear didn't help it out too much.


You may have responded to that very comment. But you responded rather ignorantly. The Game Gear had a good long run of five+ years. It was hardly crushed "very quickly". IN fact, it may have gone on for another few years after that were it not for the fact that Sega had by that time begun running itself into a hole with endless ad-ons, like the CD, and the 32X, that no one wanted to buy. Also, if you really knew anything about the topic at all, you would know that the Gameboy was as good as dead at about the same time the Game Gear was as good as dead. Nintendo tired everything to revive sales, such as the super Gameboy, the play it loud series, and nothing worked until a game called pokemon came along. It was just lucky for Nintendo that that game also happened to come at a time when there was no competition.  


Quote

"NES had not competition? Well I guess you were just to young to realize that the master system was major competition for the NES, not so much in NA, but in Europe."

You really enjoy pissing me off, don't you? I know very well about the Master System- a few of my friends own one, but to consider it anything but a little dog nipping at the NES's heels is ludicrous. It wasn't competition, period.


Don't be so ignorant. Really. I don't think you know anything about the master system at all. Yes, in the US it was a little dog. But in Europe, it was HUGE. The video game market it bigger than the United states, you know.

Quote


"Gameboy was the only system you needed for handhelds games in the face of Wonderswan, and Neo Geo pocket. Well I guess you don't care about those very cool Final Fantasyremakes, or the great SNK games on the NGPC. But I sure did, and I was very sorry not to see the WS released in north America."

And obviously neither did most of the world, since both the WonderSwan and NGPC are dead no (as was SNK for a while). Those Final Fantasy Remakes may have been cool, but the GameBoy was still the console to own. I understand you enjoy dropping a fat load of cash on an import system to play a few games, but mainstream culture disagrees.


Yes, but like i say, the reason for those systems failure, is that both were made by fairly small companies with limited marketing capital. SNK was on it's last legs to begin with, and could ill afford to release the NGPC in NA, but it did anyway, with little fanfare. I like most of the population had no idea it even exsited until it was gone. That is the reason for it's failure. Likewise, Bandai could not afford to release the Wonderswan here without having another company(mattel) market it for them. Since that never happened, the Wonderswan never happened in norht america. EVen so, in Japanthe unit carved out a very respectable 10% of the market, and would have likely continued to maintain that market share even in the face of the GBA has Square not mended relations with Nintendo.

To say that the Gameboy has steamrolled the compeititon all along is innacurate. It is only within the past few years that that has been the case. The secret to the Gameboys longevity has been Nintendo's system of reinventing it ever few years. From the old greay brick, the the opay it loud series, the the gameboy pocket, to the gameboy light, to the gameboy colour, and then the GBA, and now the GBA SP, Nintendo has masterfully maintained mindshare by always making the gameboy appear as something new, even though in reality it has chnaged very little.

Now, with Sony, we have a very different story. Now some threatens to actually shake up the market and do something different, rather than imitate the gameboy. Whatever the result, be it a new split in the handheld market, or a new and powerful Nintendo handheld rising up to drive the PSP down, it can only be good for us gamers.


Offline ActorJ

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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2003, 12:06:11 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: AiAi
I've said this on the other PSP threads, but I'll say it again since I have a strong opinion about it.

I agree with PIAC and mouse_clicker, I fear the death of 2D gaming.  It is the reason I own a GBA.  I really enjoyed Golden Sun and Zelda: A Link to the Past.  And am looking forward to Wario Ware and playing Super Mario Bros. 3 again.  Not to forget I'm still looking for Puyo Pop.  The GBA shows that 2D gaming is far from over.

If Sony buries this dimension of gaming, F**K THEM TO HELL.  And they will never get a single penny from me.


So sony doesn't get a penny from you.... Somehow I doubt they are concerned. the 2d lovers are a dying breed, I am afraid.

I hate to tell you, but 2d is dead. On consoles, 2d is dead. But I don't really mind. There are plenty of so called 3d games that play just like 2d games, such as Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance. Only difference between that and 2d is that the camera rotates and the animation is better.

And there is always a refuge for 2d lover in the PC world. there are new and great 2d games coming out for PC all the time.


Offline Don'tHate742

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2003, 01:16:34 PM »
Ya another reason why some people like 2d games alot is becuase there so easy to jump into...

I mean look at most of the 3-d games today, there hard to get down, and take a while to master. 2D games such as mario and metriod are possibly the easiest thing ever to learn. Its gets tricky with RPG's but thats cause there RPGs.

*throws in SSB: GBA for no apparent reason* They should release a super smash bros. GBA! Also I still think 2d fighting games are better in majority than the 3-D games.  
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Offline mouse_clicker

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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2003, 04:20:37 PM »
I'm not even going to reply to your post, Actor- you're so set on me being an idiot it's clouded you're judgement and I'd be wasting my time if I actually put effort into responding to you. If anyone wants to SERIOUSLY debate, I'm all ears (or eyes, I should say).
"You know you're being too serious when Mouse tells you to lighten up... ^_^"<BR>-Bill

Offline Sullichin

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2003, 06:30:20 PM »
PSP isin't worrying me much, considering Sony hasn't showed it yet. When I see it i'll care. Until then, it's just another far away nussiance.  
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Offline ActorJ

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No PSP, please!!
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2003, 06:33:41 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I'm not even going to reply to your post, Actor- you're so set on me being an idiot it's clouded you're judgement and I'd be wasting my time if I actually put effort into responding to you. If anyone wants to SERIOUSLY debate, I'm all ears (or eyes, I should say).


Okay, so you admit you were wrong. Good.

Offline EggyToast

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RE: No PSP, please!!
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2003, 08:12:53 PM »
Miyamoto himself said that he wasn't so happy with the latest Mario games since they don't have the "pick up and play" ability the early Mario games did.  Similarly, we're seeing fighting games *based on sprites* still selling very well, and the GBA, which only really does 2d (as the 3d attempts haven't been so hot), sells like hotcakes.  

2d, if anything, is making a comeback of sorts.  Not enough that 2d and 3d will ever really compete, but enough that it may become a genre of its own instead of simply "not 3d."  Obviously some games work much better in 2d than in 3d, and you can tell that, especially in the N64/PS1 era, a lot of developers were experimenting with 3d despite the game being less fun in the end.  They were doing it simply because it was the thing to do at the time.  Now, thanks to a genre and a half of time between 3d burst on the scene, some developers are looking back at 2d and thinking about what they could do that would be new and innovative that they couldn't do with the old 2d-only systems.  Super Smash Brothers is a great example -- it's a 2d game, but the 3d characters and sets make animation amazingly smooth and the game is a treat to look at, despite ultimately being flat.  Similarly, the upcoming Viewtiful Joe is getting some great previews and impressions and is entirely 2d, despite having a fair chunk of 3d elements tossed into the levels and gameplay that we've seen so far.

For the right game and the right style, 2d is far superior to 3d.  I don't think anyone will say that 2d is good for an immersive and graphically ornate game, but for an arcadey, simple-yet-fun action-style game, it's great.