Author Topic: Nintendo and Rare  (Read 13324 times)

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Offline mouse_clicker

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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2003, 03:21:26 AM »
I guess it comes down to taste- I just find it odd nobody felt the need to vocalize their dislike for Rare BEFORE Nintendo sold them to Microsoft.
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Offline Mario

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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2003, 04:03:21 AM »
I've always loved Rare and i still do. Just wait for E3

Offline nonjagged

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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2003, 07:49:22 AM »
Is it funny how many ppl say Rare is no longer what they use to be.
Sure many original members disbanded however due to M$ investing so much to get their hands on the NAME & the FRANCHISES, its surprising no one has the ability and or courage to actually admit that M$ will offer huge "money hat" incentives to lure great developers/artists to join Rare to fill the gaps which hopefully will fill the gaps in the Xbox software lineup.
Its quite stupid speculating (M$ invested so much of their Windows funds into Rare) to then just sit on their thumbs and watch Rare goof off.

In my opinion Rare could steal the show (E3) if Nintendo doesnt have some suprises for us. I once heard Rare had been hard at work on having 5-10 titles to show at E3 2003.
If it pans out that way, I will then make judgment on whether M$ has invested and re-structured Rare rewardingly when Rare show us their work. Until then I make no predictions on Rare's future.

Nintendo may have made the right decision even if Rare does rise again because we wonder whether there would be a market for rehashed Rare franchises on Gamecube when Xbox so dearly needs them.



2003 = The Year of the Fund Q & Triforce.


As for a Nintendo surprise at E3.
I want them to announce a Triforce AC version of Mario Karts: Double Dash only that this version is called All Stars: Double Dash because it features Nintendo, Capcom, Namco, Sega charcaters.

Sonic, Mega Man, Starfox, etc

Offline nolimit19

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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2003, 08:02:16 AM »
well a lot of the big boys did leave. and i dont think that they are the same. i mean they may be as good(star fox doesnt show it). i mean u can only take so much. rare does not know how to meet dead lines. and after year of development, star fox still wasnt that great. they were great. i loved them in the 64 days. blast corps and golden eye were the only ones i owned i think, but golden eye is arguably the best first person shooter of all time. i loved it. in a way that i may never love another game. it just never got boring and was really challenging. i am willing to bet me and my family spent up to 500 hours on that thing.
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Offline ThePerm

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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2003, 09:44:11 AM »
the stampers are still there...but however...there seems to be something different about them. The bald one seems to be kinda spacey now. "I just want to make great games" but he repeats it in a transe way. The one who still has hair seems to have all his marbles with him. Goto gamerweb and check out their interview with ed fries.
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Offline Hemmorrhoid

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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2003, 09:54:14 AM »
Rare did loose steam after the N64 era. Im sure Nintendo had reasons to sell them, and while SFA was arguably great (I found it quite fun, but it was nothing compard to Zelda WW) it took them too long and didnt meet expectation at all.

Im not sure what Nintendo will or has done with the money they made, but so far im entirely happy with the cube lineup.
And im gonna buy a Xbox yet the Rare games dont tickle my fancy as of yet, that might change, but Kameo and Jo-Anime Dark arent my kinda games.
LZ 2005

Offline Ninja X

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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2003, 11:16:24 AM »
Some of you here do not remember that Star Fox Adventures was delayed for so long because it was once on the Nintendo 64 and it was entirely different then.  The title was Dinosaur Planet and the main character was not Fox McCloud.

I found a couple of you also seem to be judging Rare on Star Fox Adventures.  It is only one title.  On the Nintendo 64, their titles were widely accepted and possibly all of them did well in the eyes of gamers and critics.  Even Donkey Kong 64 sold well and received above-average scores from critics.  Star Fox Adventures was not really Rare-quality, but the scores it got from critics were somewhat on par with Donkey Kong 64.  

Even if Star Fox Adventures was a miss in your eyes, it is only one title.  Yet, to some of you, having one bad title seems to signify the downfall of a well-respected company.    
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Offline couchmonkey

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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2003, 12:39:59 PM »
I definitely agree with Ninja X.  Star Fox Adventures is not an indication of how things are going for Rare in general.  We could just as easily blame Nintendo for all of that game's problems since it was Nintendo that insisted Rare move the project to GameCube and use the StarFox liscence.

But the proof is in the pudding...what does that mean anyway?  Umm, my point is, at E3, I expect Rare to show at least three games, and then we will see if Rare has really gone bad.
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline Armed

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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2003, 03:48:09 PM »
Rare was the reason i bought my n64. When i rented Goldeneye on n64 at blockbuster that is when i found my system, but following titles after Goldeney it felt like they lost there spark because i couldn't get into them anymore especially DK and Conker.... So i don't care about Rare anymore my first person shooter now is Timesplitters and i heard along time ago that most of the original people that worked on Goldeneye split anyway.

What i really want to know about is Gamezero, and SiliconKnights secret title at e3.
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Offline "Sky"

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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2003, 03:52:28 PM »
Star Fox 64 WAS NOT developed by Rare.

Offline Termin8Anakin

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« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2003, 04:18:49 PM »
I heard that the Stamper Bros. actually retired from games.
If that is true, then the whole Rare philosophy is gone. Rare was the Stamper Bros. And Nintendo made them into the respectable people they are today.
The reason why they say in a spacey way that 'I just wast to make great games' is because they still have a greater respect for Nintendo than they do for Microsoft. It's not as if they're at Microsoft and therefore they are 100% loyal. They may be development-wise, but mentally, they will always be loyal to Nintendo.

I look forward to their offerings at E3. But I dread they day when I see tons of Rare games under the Xbox banner on TV commercials. That's the day when I know they're truly gone.

And I agree. One game is not an indication of how things are going for Rare, but it is an indication of their future products. Rare will have to offer something truly revolutionary ro recapture audiences under a new name. If Banjo turns into something reminicent of Munch's Odysee, then yeah, Rare sux. But if it is an extension of the N64 counterparts, then all will be happy. Seeing Banjo in full FMV-style glory is what I've dreamed of since it was still in developement for Gamecube.
So Banjo is the only game I'm looking forward to from Rare. Kameo, Perfect Dark and Conker aren't up there, but I know I am going to cry and be jealous. So are all of you.
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Offline PIAC

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« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2003, 04:34:51 PM »
i wont!

seize that guy! and er... throw him out the airlock

yarrrrrrrr

that was the wrong guy...

i think everyone gets the point hm hm?

Offline Ace

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« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2003, 08:29:05 PM »
Although many of you think that's wrong to judge Rare on SFA, I feel it's the right thing to judge a company on it's latest effort.  Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.  With all the rumors of people leaving and such, it's hard to tell what kind of company Rare is anymore.  Rare used to be, and maybe is an amazing company, although not terribly original.  They took a classic character that got left in Mario's dust (Donkey Kong) and single handedly used him to save the SNES against the Playstation.  They were the company that brought Nintendo back to the arcades.  They were the company that did the impossible, beat Mario at his own game with Banjo-Kazooie.  And they created the most famous FPS since Doom with Goldeneye.  So what do all these achivements mean now?  If SFA is any indication, it shows a company that is past it's prime and is trying to relish in its glory days.  Even with all the problems Rare has, I miss them too.
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Offline couchmonkey

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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2003, 08:25:01 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ace
Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.


I just have to argue with that!  Solar Jetman, Blast Corps, and Battletoads are among the most original gaming experiences I have ever had.  Even many of the less original titles like Conker and Jet Force Gemini have a certain "difference" to them that I think few developers can compete with. I was expecting Kameo to be the next really innovative title in Rare's portfolio, but now I may never play it.

But life goes on!  I have other fun games to play, and while Rare will be sorely missed, I think Nintendo will keep the void filled for me.
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline Matthew

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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2003, 08:58:59 AM »
I miss Banjo-Kazooie. BK and Banjo-Tooie were my favourite games ever. If Rare ever gets around to making a third one I'm going to want a XBox.

Offline Ace

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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2003, 01:31:00 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: Ace
Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.


I just have to argue with that!  Solar Jetman, Blast Corps, and Battletoads are among the most original gaming experiences I have ever had.  Even many of the less original titles like Conker and Jet Force Gemini have a certain "difference" to them that I think few developers can compete with. I was expecting Kameo to be the next really innovative title in Rare's portfolio, but now I may never play it.

But life goes on!  I have other fun games to play, and while Rare will be sorely missed, I think Nintendo will keep the void filled for me.


Couch, I've never heard of Solar Jetman, but I will admit that Blast Corps was an original idea from Rare, but there wern't many.  I also completely agree with your thoughts on Conker and Jet Force.  It seemed that even if you didn't know what game you were playing, you could tell it was Rare because of the way it handled.  It's a really odd feeling that only Nintendo has besides Rare.  That is why we miss them so much.  It's like when you play a Rare game, you know you're playing a classic
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Offline Ace

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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2003, 01:31:01 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: Ace
Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.


I just have to argue with that!  Solar Jetman, Blast Corps, and Battletoads are among the most original gaming experiences I have ever had.  Even many of the less original titles like Conker and Jet Force Gemini have a certain "difference" to them that I think few developers can compete with. I was expecting Kameo to be the next really innovative title in Rare's portfolio, but now I may never play it.

But life goes on!  I have other fun games to play, and while Rare will be sorely missed, I think Nintendo will keep the void filled for me.


Couch, I've never heard of Solar Jetman, but I will admit that Blast Corps was an original idea from Rare, but there wern't many.  I also completely agree with your thoughts on Conker and Jet Force.  It seemed that even if you didn't know what game you were playing, you could tell it was Rare because of the way it handled.  It's a really odd feeling that only Nintendo has besides Rare.  That is why we miss them so much.  It's like when you play a Rare game, you know you're playing a classic
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Offline Ace

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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2003, 01:31:02 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: Ace
Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.


I just have to argue with that!  Solar Jetman, Blast Corps, and Battletoads are among the most original gaming experiences I have ever had.  Even many of the less original titles like Conker and Jet Force Gemini have a certain "difference" to them that I think few developers can compete with. I was expecting Kameo to be the next really innovative title in Rare's portfolio, but now I may never play it.

But life goes on!  I have other fun games to play, and while Rare will be sorely missed, I think Nintendo will keep the void filled for me.


Couch, I've never heard of Solar Jetman, but I will admit that Blast Corps was an original idea from Rare, but there wern't many.  I also completely agree with your thoughts on Conker and Jet Force.  It seemed that even if you didn't know what game you were playing, you could tell it was Rare because of the way it handled.  It's a really odd feeling that only Nintendo has besides Rare.  That is why we miss them so much.  It's like when you play a Rare game, you know you're playing a classic
You say fanboy like it's a bad thing

Offline Ace

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« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2003, 01:31:02 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: Ace
Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.


I just have to argue with that!  Solar Jetman, Blast Corps, and Battletoads are among the most original gaming experiences I have ever had.  Even many of the less original titles like Conker and Jet Force Gemini have a certain "difference" to them that I think few developers can compete with. I was expecting Kameo to be the next really innovative title in Rare's portfolio, but now I may never play it.

But life goes on!  I have other fun games to play, and while Rare will be sorely missed, I think Nintendo will keep the void filled for me.


Couch, I've never heard of Solar Jetman, but I will admit that Blast Corps was an original idea from Rare, but there wern't many.  I also completely agree with your thoughts on Conker and Jet Force.  It seemed that even if you didn't know what game you were playing, you could tell it was Rare because of the way it handled.  It's a really odd feeling that only Nintendo has besides Rare.  That is why we miss them so much.  It's like when you play a Rare game, you know you're playing a classic
You say fanboy like it's a bad thing

Offline Ace

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« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2003, 01:31:45 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: Ace
Rare was known for not being terribly original but taking a good idea and running with it.


I just have to argue with that!  Solar Jetman, Blast Corps, and Battletoads are among the most original gaming experiences I have ever had.  Even many of the less original titles like Conker and Jet Force Gemini have a certain "difference" to them that I think few developers can compete with. I was expecting Kameo to be the next really innovative title in Rare's portfolio, but now I may never play it.

But life goes on!  I have other fun games to play, and while Rare will be sorely missed, I think Nintendo will keep the void filled for me.


Couch, I've never heard of Solar Jetman, but I will admit that Blast Corps was an original idea from Rare, but there wern't many.  I also completely agree with your thoughts on Conker and Jet Force.  It seemed that even if you didn't know what game you were playing, you could tell it was Rare because of the way it handled.  It's a really odd feeling that only Nintendo has besides Rare.  That is why we miss them so much.  It's like when you play a Rare game, you know you're playing a classic
You say fanboy like it's a bad thing

Offline cubist

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« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2003, 04:17:23 PM »
The Stamper Bros. came out of retirement after the Microsoft buyout in case you people have forgotten.  If you looked at the official Rareware website after the buyout, Chris Stamper left a message for all the Rare fans to read.  It gave me the impression that they were going to be more hands-on with the company again.  As much as I have been a Nintendo fan, there were many voids filled by Rare during the N64 era, especially the slow first generation when for the first three months the only games out were Super Mario 64, Pilotwings 64, and Waverace 64.  The following February brought Blast Corps, which filled many nights of excellent gameplay.  

If you think for one second that the rotating "R" before every game has lost its magic, I'm hoping they prove us all wrong.  We should wish them the best of luck and hopefully the next generation of gamers will get the same type of magic we got from them.  Don't hate on 'em, just like we don't want anyone to hate on the Big 'N.  

On a side note, Starfox Adventures was one of the better graphical and audio experiences all year...but there was a lack of depth.  To echo what most people have posted before, one game is not a sign of a company losing its edge...just like I don't expect people to judge Nintendo with titles like Yoshi's Story back in the N64 days.  Now that was terrible and I can't believe I bought it.

I hope I don't experience that on the E3 showfloor...


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Offline Dr Synthetic

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« Reply #46 on: April 29, 2003, 07:36:52 PM »
I honestly don't see why so many people take up for Rare at all.

They turned out a couple of decent N64 titles, one amazing one (GoldenEye).  The only outstanding stuff they'd done at the end of the Super NES was DKC... the second and third Donkey Kong Country titles were horrible and uninspired.

Their games took too long to come out, they were decent at best (outside of a little luck), and weren't worth the hype the Nintendo loyalists heaped on them in the Nintendo 64 generation in the first place.  You'd heap praise on them too (and likely did) if they were the only company truly supporting the N64 other than Nintendo, which they were.

It's 100% fair to judge a company by its last title... particularly when it took them so long and sucked so horribly.  Some of the second party games that came out last year were Silicon Knights' Eternal Darkness, Rare's StarFox Adventures, and Retro Studios' Metroid Prime.  Two of those titles are hands-down amazing, and the other one was the biggest disappointment many of us have ever received.  Nintendo kicked Rare to the curb because they were an overappreciated over-hyped developer who got grandfathered into the new generation with a huge ego from hype based on their success in the *last* generation... where they JUST so happened to not have any competition.  In this generation, however, Rare's many flaws were super-evident the day that SFA was released, and Nintendo had obviously noted their lack of value before we got the opportunity to test the goods as they had the Microsoft deal ready before the fact.

Honestly, guys.  If Nintendo had wanted Rare, all they had to do was buy 2% of Rare's stock to hold the majority.  They looked close and saw what any logically thinking human would see... that Rare was the product of being in the right place at the right time and didn't happen to be worth *nearly* as much as they had been during the 8-bit and 16-bit consoles quality-wise.  Fortunately, Microsoft believed the same thing that Rare did:  that Rare was worth a lot of money, so it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.  It turns out that Rare was indeed worth a lot of money... to Nintendo, as a used-up developer, sold to the richest company in the world.  Do you think they're going to make Microsoft their money back?  Not bloody likely, friends.  A lot closer to impossible.

If you're still not seeing it clearly, think about Too Human, Metroid Prime 2, and Kameo: Elements of Power.  Which one is the one you're least interested in?  Nine out of ten of you will say Kameo, hands down.  Finally, when viewed under good light, Rare has been exposed as the totally weak developer that they are.  I, for one, am glad that they are no longer around to churn out mediocre games on my console of choice.  I'm also glad they no longer have the right to bastardize some of Nintendo's favorite franchises, from StarFox to Donkey Kong.

And yeah, I agree with the idea that many Nintendo loyalists are only turning on Rare because they're with Microsoft now.  There are some of us who actually have genuine disgust for Rare's underwhelming existence... but really, who cares?  At least the fanboys are finally getting it right.  Rare was sub-par all along.  
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Offline Mario

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« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2003, 03:19:27 AM »
WTF? Your opinion isnt a fact! In my opinion, Rare are one of the greatest developers in the gaming industry, (Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Banjo Kazooie etc. are some of the most praised games of all time) saying they're "decent at best" is an ignorant statement.  

Offline cubist

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« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2003, 06:24:27 AM »
Dr. Synthetic, you have a very good point about fanboys getting it right.  If anyone is a fanboy and is guilty of fanboyism, its me.  However, to mention that Rare was subpar all along is something that I'm having trouble accepting.  I think that they've had a long history of churning out high quality titles over the years, starting with the NES days.  From RC Pro Am, Battletoads, the DKC SNES and DKL GB/GBC series, Killer Instinct, Blast Corps, Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie, Perfect Dark, Diddy Kong Racing, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and the standard-setting Goldeneye.  They've also had a good showing with even DK64, Jet Force, Gemini, and Starfox Adventures -- although not as enjoyable as the previously mentioned title.  Add them all up, and I haven't included other titles, and referring to them as "subpar" does not do them justice.  

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Offline couchmonkey

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« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2003, 07:33:01 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dr Synthetic

If you're still not seeing it clearly, think about Too Human, Metroid Prime 2, and Kameo: Elements of Power.  Which one is the one you're least interested in?  Nine out of ten of you will say Kameo, hands down.  Finally, when viewed under good light, Rare has been exposed as the totally weak developer that they are.  I, for one, am glad that they are no longer around to churn out mediocre games on my console of choice.  I'm also glad they no longer have the right to bastardize some of Nintendo's favorite franchises, from StarFox to Donkey Kong.



First of all, it was Nintendo's decision to force the StarFox liscence on Dinosaur Planet and it was Nintendo's decision to let Rare use the DK liscence.  If Nintendo thought Rare was doing a bad job, it should have kept its liscences to itself, Rare didn't ask for them.

Second of all, you're making up statistics.  You think nine out of ten of us will pick Kameo as our least-anticipated game of the three, but you have no proof of that.  I for one am part of the "one out of ten" that is more interested in Kameo than either of those games. For that matter, anticipation says nothing about the quality of the final product.  Luigi's Mansion was no doubt the most anticipated launch game for the GameCube, but does that make it better than Super Monkey Ball or Pikmin?  Many of us would argue that DOA: Beach Volleyball is overrated, but I bet it was more anticipated than Animal Crossing, Pikmin or Eternal Darkness.


That's my opinion, not yours.
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