Topic: Game Of Thrones -Spoiler Thread- Be Caught Up

[ThePerm]

Game of Thrones

I don't know what John was more shocked about.. riding a dragon or that he fucked his aunt

[BlackNMild2k1]

Game of Thrones

I don't know what John was more shocked about.. riding a dragon or that he fucked his aunt

Imagine what Daenerys is gonna be shocked about.....
that she fucked and fell in love with her nephew, or that she isn't even heir to the Thone.... yet.
Mother of Dragons, Layer of Nephew.... (who is) rightful heir to the Throne of the 7 Kingdoms.

But I'll just assume they end up married anyway, and therefore problem solved.

[ThePerm]

Spoiler..... They're Targarians

If we've learned anything from Game of Thrones is don't put too much faith in good things happening.


I would say she's pregnant and Jon is going to die again, but didn't she turn infertile. Then again does it matter with Targarian Jesus sperm?

[BranDonk Kong]

Why is everything in spoiler tags? Everyone had nearly two full years to catch up, if you haven't by now, you deserve to see spoilers. Anyway, pretty great season opener last night. I wonder how the real Stark children are going to handle their brother not being their brother.

[BlackNMild2k1]

i know... he is instead their cousin.

but when Jon Snow [insert actual name... A?? Targareyan] has to look at Daenerys and say
::cues up best Killmonger impression:: "Hey Auntie!!", that's gonna be a pivotal moment for her to decide is her crown more important than love, or is she willing to share the throne w/ her nephew and pop out a babies that aren't dragons

[Stratos]

In the books they were teasing her restored fertility because she began to "bleed" again. As much as I would like them to happily rule together, I think she will die in childbirth, mirroring how Jon's mother died giving birth to him.

[BranDonk Kong]

My prediction: she's gonna kill him.

[Spak-Spang]

In the books they were teasing her restored fertility because she began to "bleed" again. As much as I would like them to happily rule together, I think she will die in childbirth, mirroring how Jon's mother died giving birth to him.

This seems perfect.  Those 2 characters are obviously fan favorites, and back in the day as gross as incest is, it was more common and health risks were not well known.  So then having them seem to have a perfect end with a King and Queen ruling to just take it from the audience seems like a perfect dramatic element. 

[Stratos]

The incest thing was partially debunked by science a while back. Yes, siblings is still a no-go, but first cousins pose  no additional risk for genetic deformities assuming the parents are not inbreeding as well. Still socially weird, but not guaranteed to have the adverse health risks.

[ThePerm]

2 generations of cousin incest equals one generation of bro sister incest. Banging aunts not a great idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain#/media/File%3AJuan_de_Miranda_Carreno_002.jpg

[Stratos]

Huh, guess that was outdated info I learned.

Geeze, between this show and Fire Emblem, I wouldn't be surprised if incest became more normalized in the future. Bleh.

[Stratos]

How bad is aunt incest?

https://slate.com/technology/2019/04/jon-snow-daenerys-targaryen-game-of-thrones-aunt-nephew-marriage-genetic-risks.amp

[ThePerm]

Pretty bad. You would think 1/8 was bad on its own, but also factor in everyone everyone had some sort of incest in their family lineage. That number goes up from 1/8th.  Also factor in that human beings come from a series of genetic bottlenecks. Your best bet is if your grandparents were distantly related. Like if your grandparents had completely distant ethnicities then you could probably get away with it for a long time. The further the better. The Targaryans are already inbred to begin with. They're going to have a mutant baby.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Next week on GAME OF THRONES.........

ENDGAME

The Night King marches on Winterfell, and even though Daenery's and Aargon Targareon are conflicted of personal feelings, personal relationships and a possible joint claim to the Iron Throne, it's all interrupted when THANOS appears in the middle of the battleground, bearing the full Infinity Guantlet in all it's glory.

Fire and Ice from dragons on both sides come at him, along with arrows and spears. It is all pointless, as Thanos snaps his fingers, and moments later, people from both sides... including Kings Landing and everywhere else begin to fade to dust....

credits roll.

...Who shall Avenge the fallen?

~or~

Thanos is the Night King, leading his army to invade Winterfell, the land of the Starks and all their suits of Iron.


on a serious note though, I have questions..... (too many details to remember, and I've never done a rewatch)

Did Jaime Lannister lose his hand saving Lady Brienne?
If Auntie and Nephew were really in love... would they really need to fight over who claims the Iron Throne, when they would likely share it still anyway?
What happened to the Red Lady? I remember her revealing her true naked self :puke: but don't remember what happened after that....  (they could probably use some of her Lord of Light magic or whatever she was doing)
Are all the wolves dead? all the Starks had a large wolf... did they all get killed?
Where are the dragons.....? You would think they would want to keep them close, considering what happened to the last dragon :/

Oh, and the show is beyond what was written in the books at this point right?
So absolutely no one has any idea where the story goes from the last book which I think was finished mostly in the last season or the one before that.... right?

[Adrock]

Did Jaime Lannister lose his hand saving Lady Brienne?

Yes and no. Locke was going to rape Brienne of Tarth then have his men “finish her off” implying both more rape then murder because anyone associated with House Bolton is just the fucking worst. Jaime talks Locke out of it by lying about Tarth being known as the “Sapphire Isle” and that Selwyn Tarth would reward Locke if his daughter is returned “unbesmirched” (i.e. totally not-raped). Locke seemingly believes this then Jaime attempts to barter his own release by mentioning the wealth of the Lannisters. Locke is unmoved, threatens to stab Jaime in the eye before chopping off his hand.

It’s up to your interpretation. Would Jaime have lost his hand if he shut up about his father’s wealth? Was Locke just no longer in a rapey mood after dismembering Jaime?

If Auntie and Nephew were really in love... would they really need to fight over who claims the Iron Throne, when they would likely share it still anyway?

Yes and no. Jon didn’t even want to be King of the North, only reluctantly accepting the title as a sense of duty (i.e. to save the Northerners from zombies) so he definitely doesn’t care about any claim to the Iron Throne. Before Sam info-bombed his birthright, Jon’s sullen, sad-sack self seemed content with merely becoming figurehead king via marriage while deferring to Daenerys on all ruling matters because he’s all sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g etc. etc with her, and he doesn’t care about politics. Jon already bent the knee to Daenerys so that isn’t even the problem.

The implication of Jon’s conflict is that he now knows he fucked his aunt and even once he abdicates his claim to the throne, he doesn’t know if Daenerys can ever really accept it. She believed ruling the Seven Kingdoms was her destiny and spent six agonizing seasons boring everyone to prepare for it, and now she learns she has no rightful claim to the throne. After everything she’s been through (e.g. sold, raped, countless assassination attempts etc.) and what she still has to go through (e.g. kill zombies, Cersei and the Golden Company), she would only get the throne because her nephew and lover gave it to her. In a way, it almost trivializes her personal journey.

Ultimately, the way I see it, the question isn’t really who has claim to the throne. Rather, it’s whether they can still love each other due to both the internal and external conflict of incest as well as the more visceral, psychological complications of what they both have to sacrifice and accept about their very unique situation.

What happened to the Red Lady?

Melisandre was on Dragonstone last season when Jon arrived to ask Daenerys for help. She told Varys that her work is done because she brought Jon and Daenerys together (for war, not banging purposes). Varys seemed relieved that Melisandre was returning to Volantis and advised her not to return to Westeros, but she says it’s her fate to die in Westeros then kind of fucks off for the rest of the season. Expect her to show up in the last four episodes to tie up that hanging plot thread because this isn’t Lost and the writers have been resolving loose ends all over the final seasons.

Are all the wolves dead? all the Starks had a large wolf... did they all get killed?

Ghost (Jon’s direwolf) is alive and briefly shown in last night’s episode. Nymeria (Arya’s direwolf) is also alive and leading a pack of wolves. Arya sent Nymeria away in the first season after she bit Joffrey. Nymeria made a very special appearance last season to tie up that loose end for reasons.

Where are the dragons.....?

Both currently suffering from off-screen-for-budgetary-reasons.

Oh, and the show is beyond what was written in the books at this point right?

Yes.

So absolutely no one has any idea where the story goes from the last book which I think was finished mostly in the last season or the one before that.... right?

Depends on who you’re referring to. Fans? No. Showrunners? Yes and no? George R. R. Martin gave the showrunners, David Benioff and Dan Weiss, some plot points including his planned ending, or at least what it was back when he actually told them a few years ago. This allowed the showrunners to set the chessboard and put certain characters in a similar place. Martin could just as easily drastically change things for the last two books if he ever gets around to finishing them, and Benioff and Weiss could have done the same in the show. They aren’t beyond changing events from the books. For example, they never resurrected Catelyn Stark.

[Stratos]

So the "crypts are safe"...meaning the crypts most definitely are not safe. Either it is a trap or sorts (dig underneath?) or the Stark dead come to life. Would be awesome if they rise thanks to Bran or something and fight to defend Winterfell.

Also, Night King is not there with his undead dragon. I'm of the opinion that he circumnavigated Winterfell and is heading straight to Kings Landing. He'll take Cersei's shiny new golden army and use that horde to come up from the south.

[BlackNMild2k1]

@Adrock - thanks for the responses.

1 - I had a feeling it was a half truth about Jaime's hand.
the way they kept looking at each other, I knew that that wasn't exactly what went down.

2 - I figured they would be conflicted over their um... close personal and familial relations. But i figured their "love" for one another may overcome that conflict and they end up sharing the thone, just as they would have otherwise anyway.

3 - just wanted to make sure she wasn't dead or something. LOL
I figured she still had a role to play somewhere. I do remember that line about her dying in Westeros now that you mentioned it.

4 - I missed the wolf cameo

5 - I figured the Dragons where off screen. They didn't even show the White Walker Ice Dragon.

So the "crypts are safe"...meaning the crypts most definitely are not safe. Either it is a trap or sorts (dig underneath?) or the Stark dead come to life. Would be awesome if they rise thanks to Bran or something and fight to defend Winterfell.

Also, Night King is not there with his undead dragon. I'm of the opinion that he circumnavigated Winterfell and is heading straight to Kings Landing. He'll take Cersei's shiny new golden army and use that horde to come up from the south.

wouldn't that be quite the situation. LOL
I mean, Winterfell would be totally and completely fucked, but on the otherhand, Cersei would've been totally fucked first. LOL

[ThePerm]

Not much happened in the episode except...

[Stratos]

No major deaths yet in S8, so we should get a bracket together or something before next Sunday.

[BranDonk Kong]

****'s going down next week, I think we're gonna lose several favorites. My prediction for down the road: Dany kills Jon, Jaime kills Dany, Cersei (and/or Euron) kills Jaime, Tyrion kills Cersei.

[Stratos]

If Cersei is in fact pregnant, the baby could kill her and still fulfill Maggie the Frog's prophecy since the child would technically be a sibling as well as a child of her's.

[ShyGuy]

So who's gonna sit on the throne?

[BlackNMild2k1]

So who's gonna sit on the throne?

The little girl that wanted to fight, the one protecting the crypts.


Theory I heard is that the Night King might have bypassed Winterfell and went straight to Kings Landing.
Now wouldn't that be some ****. LOL

[Stratos]

It fits with past visions and teasers. Bran had a vision back when he was with the 3-eyed-raven showing the shadow of a dragon flying over kings landing. We've not seen that scene yet. Also, Dany had that vision of Kings Landing with the throne room burnt out and covered in snow.

We also have at least one last WTF moment to come. The directors had sat down with GRRM when it was clear the show would pass the books and Martin laid out the ending and where the main characters would end up. They walked away from that saying there were three real WTF moments. First was revealed to be Hodor = Hold the Door. The second is presumed to be the undead Viserion. Last WTF moment is said to happen at the very end of the show.

[Stratos]

Soooo... looks like some major theories were incorrect.


Night King is gone, Arya killed him. Though some theories say there may be more to it and we will learn that Bran was doing some crazy warging/time shenanigans to ensure things happened the way they did.

Viserion is destroyed, Drogon and Rhaygal are shown alive in the teaser for #4 as well as Ghost, so he survived somehow. There were a number of deaths, but I'm very surprised at how many of them survived.

Confirmed dead: Jorah, Melisandra, Berric, Edd...expected a lot more. I did not see Missandei in the last shot of the crypt, so that may be a sad twist for Grey Worm.

[BlackNMild2k1]

No need to spoiler.

Someone change the thread title to *SPOILER THREAD*

[ShyGuy]

https://youtu.be/5BPkIyHVaAk

That's for John Wick's Dog!

as a side note, I hope HBO fixes the gamma levels on this episode in the future.

[Stratos]

Some folks theorize the lighting could have been on purpose, because it was an "alternate timeline" that Bran was running through or something. It was a mess visually and ruined the episode for my wife.  was more tolerant of it because of what happened in the episode, but still frustrating to deal with.

[Adrock]

The action was hard to follow which wasn't entirely unexpected for an episode called "The Long Night". I think at least some of it was intentional to mimic the chaotic nature of the battle. I was wondering if maybe I was having trouble keeping up because I'm old now and everything hurts.

Theon's death seemed largely unnecessary since Arya FTW like 30 seconds later. Still, I liked how nicely it tied up his arc. Theon lost his way when he sacked Winterfell, and took Bran and Rickon hostage so it was appropriate for him to come full circle by not only defending Winterfell but Bran too.

I couldn't tell who was still alive in the crypt besides Sansa, Tyrion, and Varys.My brother asked if one of the women getting murder-death-killed was Gilly. I haven't seen her on a confirmed death list. Dolorous Edd, Beric Dondarrion, Lyanna Mormont, Theon Greyjoy, Jorah the Explorer, Melisandre, and of course, The Night King were the only confirmed deaths.

I liked that Arya was ultimately the one who destroyed The Night King (because who doesn't like Arya?) though I felt it was anticlimactic. I expected a bigger fight. Instead, The Night King just Jason Voorhees'd over to Charles Xavier under the Weirwood Tree. And just what were his lieutenants (?) doing while Arya just ran up on him? Throw a spear, something.

There's still hope for Cleganebowl in the last three episodes. And everyone is expecting Cersei to be Games of the Throne's final boss, but what if it's Daenerys?

[ThePerm]

If you have any sort of expectation of hope for something, or interest in seeing it happen in this series then that means it will be murdered with a pillow.

Who's a tertiary character? They're getting the throne.

[BlackNMild2k1]

so Arya Stark is gonna become the Night Queen now that she killed the Night King?

[Adrock]

People are complaining that Arya is a Mary Sue because she killed The Night King. I’m beginning to think people didn’t watch the previous seven seasons and don’t know understand what a Mary Sue is.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well..... she she not only made it out to that tree undetected, but snuck past all the undead including the generals undetected, then somehow jumped off of something to get that top dowm angle on the Night King.

I love that it was her that did it, but it seemed awful convenient that she was able to do it so easily.

[Stratos]

Its going to be revealed that Bran helped get her past the walkers. He had to be doing something with all that warging.

[ThePerm]

Arya had a  lot of counter detection training. She can shapeshift after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTVKLbqmdc

[ThePerm]

From the video above.

31:45 Arya - You used to be taller
31:50 Jon - How did you sneak up on me?

Look at the location. That ****'s great.

[BlackNMild2k1]

can't see the video....

[Stratos]

I wanted there to be a twist, with the Night King coming back and starting a new army in Winterfell and heading south, but looks like that won't be happening after tonight. Just don't feel like Cersei should be the final villain.

[ThePerm]

The video was on the previous post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTVKLbqmdc


The Night King was one of many failed campaigns for the throne.

I don't think any of this is going to go how you all think it will.

I don't think Cersei, Danny, or Jon will rule. They'll all run very intriguing campaigns, but ultimately fail as a group.

[Adrock]

Just don't feel like Cersei should be the final villain.

Lucky you then. It’s Daenerys. 🎶 dramatic sound effect 🎶

[broodwars]

Finally had a chance to catch up on this season today.

Well, I see they brought in George Lucas to punch up some of the dialogue this season.

I was quoting SO MANY LOTR lines during the Battle of Winterfell.

They passed up the chance to have Dead Sean Bean rise up during the Battle of Winterfell. Why wouldn't you want to do that? 

[Stratos]

Yeah, the crypt twist was totally squandered. So much more they could have done with it, or at least killed more people.

I was half hoping that Bran would raise his own wight army of the fallen Starks to fight back. And how did they bust through stone when the one they captured last season couldn't break open a wooden box?

I read the final episode spoilers and I am hoping they are wrong. They did film multiple endings. I kinda hope they went so far with the alternate endings that the DVD edition will let you choose alternate endings similar to Clue or I am Legend. Can't make everyone happy with one ending, at least give us several to satisfy most of us. Though it is the botched journey that kills it. I loved the show S1-6 & I tolerated 7 as it felt rushed (and I turned off my brain for the wight hunt, as there were better ways to achieve what they pulled off there). But the last two episodes have been a train wreck. Gotta see it through, but really hoping they pull off some sort of clutch turn that makes the recent mess more justified.

[Adrock]

For BnM: https://youtu.be/V4C4yoMPp0o

[BlackNMild2k1]

Lol

I'm actually very curious why Danaerys didn't circle around low to the water, come from behind and torch the ships.

Even more surprised they could be snuck up on from such a height by slow moving ships.

[ThePerm]

Lol

I'm actually very curious why Danaerys didn't circle around low to the water, come from behind and torch the ships.

Even more surprised they could be snuck up on from such a height by slow moving ships.

Right? You think they would see the ships for like 50 miles.

I theorize there might be a cave filled with 1000s of Dragon Eggs though. The Dragons flew off and were away for some time.

[ThePerm]

Or I guess the scorpions were not that big a threat after all. Also, Mad Queen Alert.

[ShyGuy]

So the dragon lady is evil?

[broodwars]

That was a lame episode. It's becoming increasingly obvious that the actual writers for this show aren't very good once they reached the limits of the source material.

I don't necessarily have a problem with where all the characters ended up so much as how they got there. Also, how did Dany have ANY Dothraki & Unsullied after the Battle of Winterfell, let ALONE enough to significantly challenge King's Landing? We SAW the Dothraki in particular get completely wiped out in the first WAVE of the attack, aside from a few stragglers who cane running back.

And yeah, after all the build-up with those ballistas, Dany just turns on her plot armor to roast them all uncontested. It's just watching Captain Marvel.

There's just a lot of really shitty writing this season.

[Stratos]

I'm conflicted. Felt like a return to form for Drogon and Dany. We've spent the past season thinking the dragons were vulnerable (which is contrary to previous encounters, Drogon took a lot of arrows in Meereen's fighting pits and was fine, plus he took a ballista bolt and was also fine) and now she kicks ass. But it was still a mess in so many ways. We half thought Arya was going to find a still functional ballista and shoot down Drogon to stop the carnage. It was almost like she was hearing voices like the Mad King did, but we should have heard them ourselves as the viewer if that was the case. Maybe she is being manipulated by Bran. I still think he has a role to play with it all and will be part of a big reveal last episode. Either Bran is possessed by the Night King or it will be revealed Bran caused everything on accident and was trying to get Dany to stop as well as the Mad King (he was the voice but unintentionally drove them mad instead).

I don't blame the writers. Its all because George couldn't finish his series. Read a great breakdown of it online this morning between plotters and pantsers. Plotters plan things out in detail, pantsers write by the seat of their pands. George did both, plotted the main story beats, but pantsed the characters and what they would do in each situation. The problem is that led to an organic expansion of the story and took on a life of its own. George now has no idea how to wrap up all of the plots he has going. It is just too complex.

The show runners tried to copy the detail and we got S5-6, which botched some plots like the entirety of Dorne. So they decided to focus on making the landing over how they got there for S7-8. This is why the characters all feel so different. They are not acting as they would, because now they are agents of the plot, going and doing what is needed to make the ending happen.

So the ending will most likely be satisfying, but feel totally unearned with what has happened the last few years. But I don't blame the showrunners like a lot of folks are doing, though they brought the mess on themselves by how they talked in the "behind the thrones" videos, as a lot of their statements about "we forgot..." and "I don't know, you figure it out" have just driven fans mad.

[Adrock]

 

And yeah, after all the build-up with those ballistas, Dany just turns on her plot armor to roast them all uncontested. It's just watching Captain Marvel.

Damn, son. Shots fired.

There's just a lot of really shitty writing this season.

To expand, some characters are really inconsistent. For Jamie and Cersei to end up where they did, the writers threw out at least four seasons worth of development for both characters. They had vastly different character arcs. Cersei became more evil. Jamie became more heroic with the caveat of having to live with his evil deeds which is what gave him depth and made him such a compelling character as the series progressed. Leaving Brienne to stop Cersei would have been a fitting end. He doesn’t get a happy ending because he has to atone for helping create the monster Cersei became, right?

I felt like the writers wanted people to feel sympathy for Cersei, and I just couldn’t get there because her love for her children is literally her only positive character trait (that and her cheekbones). The writers set Jamie up over the course of whole seasons to kill Cersei or at least completely denounce just how evil she became. Becoming the Queenslayer and killing the one person he thought he never could felt like his entire arc. It was one of the things the writers still did well after passing the source material. The counter argument I’ve already seen is that Game of Thrones has been subverting fantasy tropes for its entire run. That doesn’t really fit here because it shouldn’t be subverting basic tenets of storytelling. They built a character up a certain way and swerved at the very last second.

I didn’t feel like Daenerys’ Mad Queen heel turn was necessarily earned though it isn’t as bad as Azula’s burst of psychosis at the end of Avatar: The Last Airbender. There were hints, but Daenerys didn’t quite get there. I felt like they could have used a few more episodes to really build that up.

Arya had plot armor and a convenient horse though I’ve read this may be Bran warging (personally doubt it). Euron never became more than a mustache twirling villain. Fighting Jamie had no real build up. Euron making back to shore at that exact spot and at that exact moment is a problem the writers had with convenience and time since leapfrogging the books. It seemed more to merely slow Jamie down which they didn’t really need because Pac-Man-ing around a maze of debris in The Red Keep slowed him down enough.

We finally got Cleganebowl. I would have preferred The Hound lived by merely pushing The Mountain into the fire below then escaping King’s Landing to be a fucking farmer or something. Killing his brother with fire is appropriate so I’m not finding fault in that choice. I just would have like to have seen Sandor live.

Prediction: Arya kills Daenerys by using someone else’s face. I’m trying to decide if it’s Jon Snow or Grey Worm. I suspect we’ll get a one on one between those two in the Finale. I’m also bad at predictions. 🤷‍♀️

[Stratos]

Crazy prediction: Jon kills Dany, Drogon burns him and Jon comes out buck naked and people bow because they realize he is the last true Targaryan. That or Drogon refuses to burn him because Dragons won't burn Targs or some weird show logic.

[Luigi Dude]

But I don't blame the showrunners like a lot of folks are doing, though they brought the mess on themselves by how they talked in the "behind the thrones" videos, as a lot of their statements about "we forgot..." and "I don't know, you figure it out" have just driven fans mad.

I'm sorry but the show writers deserve much of the blame.  Yes it sucks for them that they ran out of source material and George didn't help them by extremely bloating the plot in the last 2 books, but the last episode was just terrible from a writing standpoint.  Dany suddenly going Mad Queen even though the enemy army had surrendered and she had already won the fight is ridicules.  It's the same **** they pulled with Stannis where instead of actually showing a proper descent into madness that would cause them to become monsters, D&D literally have them become evil with a flip of the switch.

Actual good writers will find ways to take what they're given and have it make sense.  D&D have proven time and time again since Season 5 that all they care about is shock value and have no regard for even trying to be consistent.  Hopefully Disney fires them from the upcoming Star Wars trilogy because these 2 have proven time and time again they fail at even the most basic writing.  You have to make things actually feel earned and respect the character development you set up.  As Adrock just said, they actual were doing that with Jamie only to completely ruin it at the end.

It's like they want to be the next M Night Shyamalan, but are inspired by all his bad movies instead of the good ones.  All they care about is trying to shock the audience with a twist, instead of actually developing a decent story to go with it or make said twist actually make sense in the end.

[Stratos]

You make fair points, and there was a lot of room for them to do better. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on their upcoming Star Wars films (at least the first one) before I write them off as creators completely. Hopefully because they will be working from start to finish without a complex plot that cuts off 2/3rds of the way through they can put forth something better, but it means they get one shot in the first film to sell their series to me.

[broodwars]

There's just a lot of really shitty writing this season.

To expand, some characters are really inconsistent. For Jamie and Cersei to end up where they did, the writers threw out at least four seasons worth of development for both characters. They had vastly different character arcs. Cersei became more evil. Jamie became more heroic with the caveat of having to live with his evil deeds which is what gave him depth and made him such a compelling character as the series progressed. Leaving Brienne to stop Cersei would have been a fitting end. He doesn’t get a happy ending because he has to atone for helping create the monster Cersei became, right?

I felt like the writers wanted people to feel sympathy for Cersei, and I just couldn’t get there because her love for her children is literally her only positive character trait (that and her cheekbones). The writers set Jamie up over the course of whole seasons to kill Cersei or at least completely denounce just how evil she became. Becoming the Queenslayer and killing the one person he thought he never could felt like his entire arc. It was one of the things the writers still did well after passing the source material. The counter argument I’ve already seen is that Game of Thrones has been subverting fantasy tropes for its entire run. That doesn’t really fit here because it shouldn’t be subverting basic tenets of storytelling. They built a character up a certain way and swerved at the very last second.

I didn’t feel like Daenerys’ Mad Queen heel turn was necessarily earned though it isn’t as bad as Azula’s burst of psychosis at the end of Avatar: The Last Airbender. There were hints, but Daenerys didn’t quite get there. I felt like they could have used a few more episodes to really build that up.

Arya had plot armor and a convenient horse though I’ve read this may be Bran warging (personally doubt it). Euron never became more than a mustache twirling villain. Fighting Jamie had no real build up. Euron making back to shore at that exact spot and at that exact moment is a problem the writers had with convenience and time since leapfrogging the books. It seemed more to merely slow Jamie down which they didn’t really need because Pac-Man-ing around a maze of debris in The Red Keep slowed him down enough.

We finally got Cleganebowl. I would have preferred The Hound lived by merely pushing The Mountain into the fire below then escaping King’s Landing to be a fucking farmer or something. Killing his brother with fire is appropriate so I’m not finding fault in that choice. I just would have like to have seen Sandor live.

Prediction: Arya kills Daenerys by using someone else’s face. I’m trying to decide if it’s Jon Snow or Grey Worm. I suspect we’ll get a one on one between those two in the Finale. I’m also bad at predictions. 🤷‍♀️

Yeah, basically that. There's only so much I can type on a phone during a few minutes of a 15 minute break.

Honestly, I thought they were setting up Tyrion to become a "Queen-slayer", to give his character arc a bit of symmetry as he attempted to prevent needless deaths.

Apparently, I thought too hard.

[ThePerm]

I hear a lot of people complaining about the writing, but they don't seem to understand the series.

Ned Stark - hand of the king - he's the main character of the show - He's uncovered the truth between a ghastly mystery and he's going to tell the king: The King Dies, he's told the queen, a little bastard is now king and he gets beheaded.

Viserys Targaryen - Has arranged his meek sister Daenerys to marry Khal Drogo - Khal Drogo will lead an army for him in return and he will be king of the 7 kingdoms: He pisses of the Khal at a suaré and Khal pours molten gold on him.

Khal Drogo - Viserys is gone, but who says he can't rule the 7 kingdoms? he's going to be the great Stallion who Mounts the world that takes over the 7 kingdoms: He get's into a petty fight,  and get's infected, ultimately leading to his death.

Daenerys Targarian's child - Danny is now pregnant with the future King of the Khalasar, Khal Drogo is sick and probably going to die, so Danny goes to a witch in an effort to heal the Khal, but the trick is she loses the baby to save Khal, further Khal is still alive, but a vegetable. She smothers the Khal.

Robb Stark - fed up with the South's **** the North declares their own king, the King of the North is pissed the killed his dad Ned, He's going to take over the seven kingdoms, He gets some help from the Freys, one of the caveats is he has to marry one of the Frey's homely daughters, this doesn't work out, he just finds a hot chick and impregnates her, the Fray's murder the Stark's at the infamous Red Wedding. "The Lanisters send their regards"

Joffrey Baratheon - A little fucking **** who inherits the throne after his father is murdered, he's going to Marry and **** as many sexy bitches as he can, and he gets creepy with it, he gets poisoned.

Renly Baratheon- The Tyrell's and the Baratheons form an alliance and Renly becomes King, well at least on their side, He seems like he would be a lot better king the Joffrey: He get's kiled by a blood magic smoke monster.

Stannis Baratheon- reluctantly claiming to be the king, he's the best king around now that Robb is dead, he joins a new religion with the red lady, murders his brother with the aforementioned smoke monster, sends boats to Kings landing and they all get killed,  later desperate to be King Stannis sacrifices his own daughter to the lord of light for luck: he gets critically injured in a scuffle with the Boltons and sits down by a tree, who shows up? Brienne of Tarth who is still upset he killed her pal Renly. She beheads him.

Margery Tyrell - had been married to Renly and be queen, but then he got dead,  so she goes to get betrothed to Joffrey and become queen, she marries him, but then he get's poisoned, so she has to marry Tommy B, her bro gets kidnapped, some weird high sparrow cult stuff happens, she gets exploded by Cersei

Tommen Baratheon B- Tommy B gets to be king after big bro died, but Heavy hangs the Crown, **** gets real with Margery, so he gets to jumpin.

John Snow- In order to defend the realm from the Army of Darkness he befriends a bunch of north norseman, but he fucked a girl, and wildlings used to be an enemy: so he gets stabbed to death: but he gets Eastered

The Night King - Amasses a crazy powerful undead army: but Arya is sneaky as ****.

Cersie Lanister-  pulls **** all the time to stay in power, but every time her world comes crumbling down on her.

Danny - get's raped, her husband gets killed, her baby dies, most of her dragons get killed, her best friend get's killed,  she falls in love with a guy who turns out to be her nephew, now he won't bang her, her vizier betrays her, her father figure dies, her beloved nephew betrays her. Her vassals betray her.

Olenna warned Daenerys about what happened to her granddaughter, Margaery, saying that despite the people's love for her she was ultimately killed and that in order to maintain the loyalty of the masses, "Daenerys must be feared as well as loved"
During the meeting at Dragonstone to discuss marching full force on King’s Landing, Daenerys states that she does not want to be known as "Queen of the Ashes"

TLDR The way things are going the Brotherhood without Banners has a shot.

[BlackNMild2k1]

That was a lame episode. It's becoming increasingly obvious that the actual writers for this show aren't very good once they reached the limits of the source material.

I don't necessarily have a problem with where all the characters ended up so much as how they got there. Also, how did Dany have ANY Dothraki & Unsullied after the Battle of Winterfell, let ALONE enough to significantly challenge King's Landing? We SAW the Dothraki in particular get completely wiped out in the first WAVE of the attack, aside from a few stragglers who cane running back.

And yeah, after all the build-up with those ballistas, Dany just turns on her plot armor to roast them all uncontested. It's just watching Captain Marvel.

There's just a lot of really shitty writing this season.

I just finished last Sunday's episode, seen this post, and also ran across this article that lets you know you're not alone in how you feel about S8

Game of Thrones fans petition for HBO to remake season 8 following controversial episode
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27475925/game-of-thrones-season-8-petition-remake/

[ThePerm]

the internet said Arya was a Mary Sue. The internet is a lazy spectator and doesn't pay close attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTVKLbqmdc

She earned it, she went through hell to get where she is.

Danny was going to go mad queen. It was going to happen. I knew this would happen for 3-4 seasons. She got aroused every time she killed someone. She has a family history of insanity. She's Saddam Hussein level paranoid. Her entire family were inbred jackoffs on the cruel side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL-B76vX_pw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAWNTd9Wrvg

There is soooo much setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skbmXIzxcZY

[Adrock]

I didn’t necessarily have a problem with Daenerys’ Mad Queen heel turn. The show spent a lot of time with her so she better have played a big role. As previously stated, more episodes that showed a slower descent into madness would have been preferred because the hints in earlier seasons could (and for me, did) play as cruel but generally fair justice even after the show passed the source material. Burning Randyll and Dickon Tarly, for example, for refusing to bend the knee was appropriate if excessive punishment. Also, the show did not paint Randyll in a positive light nor show Dickon enough to get sympathy from viewers so naturally, we’re led to side with Daenerys. If Daenerys is Game of Thrones’ final boss, the entirety of the final season should have been Westeros vs. Daenerys. The Night King should have been the penultimate boss.

Unlike Jamie and Cersei, Daenerys’ characterization in The Bells isn’t inconsistent. However, her mental state could have gone either way. I didn’t think the writers did enough for Daenerys to go full Mad Queen when she did. And because of that, I was really hoping she wouldn’t go Mad Queen.

[ThePerm]

I have problem with people saying it was out of character. I don't have a problem with people complaining about the pace though. Why cram everything into 6 episodes? On the other hand there is no filler.

One thing I would have improved would be making Cercei 2D the last two seasons. Her character is more complex than just a villainess, but then again you'd imagine the position she was in she was boxed in a corner with how she was supposed to act. They should have had her have like a lesbian love affair and drink a lot or something.

I didn’t necessarily have a problem with Daenerys’ Mad Queen heel turn....

I was really hoping she wouldn’t go Mad Queen.

and the frog, the fox, and the tortoise all wished the scorpion wouldn't sting them, but that is what scorpions do. They sting dragons too.

[Adrock]

Those aren’t contradictory statements. At least twice in this thread, I’ve mused about Daenerys was possibly being the final boss. That’s been around for years. The seeds were there; I was just hoping to be surprised with an appropriate twist. It’s like what I said about The Hound. His death was appropriate; I still would have rather he lived.

[ThePerm]

We just assume the Hound died.  He did come back after being left on a hill before. Lord of Light could revive him.
Anyone can come back at any point.  No one's ever really gone.

[Stratos]

Folks are convinced Jamie lived somehow too.

Yeah, it was always a clear possibility that Dany could go nuts, but most folks from what I can tell are bothered by how fast she turned versus the fact she did. the producers really should have done full seasons and probably stuck around for another one or two. So now things are rushed and it turns out some essential corners were cut earlier on and that helped box them into the corner with nothing to do bu force everything into its final position.

No one's ever really gone.

Whoa there, JJ, that's getting into crazy territory.

[ThePerm]

/s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNTLC_uiGFA&t=184s

[broodwars]

Well, that could have been worse.

Again, my issue with this last season isn't with where all the characters wound up, but how they got there. And we had all that build-up with the army of the dead and the Night King, and it was all resolved in a single episode halfway through the season so we could end on a completely different plot thread that didn't seem like it should really matter anymore.

[Stratos]

What a train wreck. The entire "trial" scene and the small council scene were cringe inducing. Even the music was hollow, copying old themes that had no business being used (why did the election of Bran warrant playing the reveal of Jon's parentage at the Tower of Joy?). Also the ending, showing each of the three Starks justi doing things was off and undeserved of the music that was playing. There was no good close out for the series.

[Adrock]

Ehh, it was fine. I was bracing myself for worse considering how seasons seven and eight went. Personally, I've only ever seen two good series finales: Breaking Bad and Futurama.

Everyone ended up in an appropriate place except maybe Bran. I didn't really buy the explanation for him being king or why he agreed to it due to being the Three-Eyed Raven. I thought he was going to **** off beyond the wall to that cave. Isn't Bran going to live hundreds, if not thousands of years? “Bran the Broken” is a really messed up thing to call someone too. “Here ye, here ye! In the name of the crippled king..........”

Tyrion also talked about breaking the wheel being Daenerys' goal which is why he nominated Bran but then there's a small council meeting and everything seems exactly the same as it was before Daenerys destroyed an entire city. What the **** were you talking about then? Also, a scene with King's Landing being rebuilt would have been useful there.

I didn't really understand how anyone would have found out that Jon killed Daenerys unless Jon just flat-out fucking told them. There were no witnesses yet Grey Worm knows how Daenerys was killed and who did it. Drogon breathed fire then fucked off with Daenerys. Was there any reason Jon couldn't have calmly walked out of there before anyone saw the blood on the ground? Did he insist on telling the Unsullied what he did? Is the implication that he was being honorable?

Also, I'm not really understanding why Jon was kept prisoner. He committed the highest treason (from Daenerys’ forces’ side). A bunch of murderers who have known nothing except murdering before their queen set them free to murder some more but as free men suddenly decide murder is not the answer regarding the man who killed their benefactor. Sure. Ignoring that, why would the Unsullied (and Dothraki?) agree to send Jon to the Night's Watch, a concept they don't understand, then just **** off... immediately? There's no reason for anyone who mattered in Westeros to keep their word. As an act of good faith? Jon just fucks off beyond the Wall anyway, and like, as soon as he gets there. Everyone just turns into the shrug emoji. What was all that **** about sentencing Jon to life in the Night's Watch where he holds no titles or lands etc. etc. being a compromise and there was no other way? Was lying the plan? Why did everyone play it off as serious? That's weird. Am I having a stroke? Did I just not understand this correctly?

Speaking of, is there any reason for the Night's Watch to still exist? Jon and Tyrion kind of address this. Is it just a penal colony now? Otherwise, there are no White Walkers or Wights, Westeros made peace with Wildlings, and there's a giant gaping hole in the Wall. Also, whose jurisdiction is the Night's Watch under? I presume Winterfell, and if so, I feel like Sansa would have just told Jon, "Yeah, you don't have to go up there. LOL."

I don't know why Arya stopped using people's faces. She spent an entire season learning how to wear other people's faces, used it twice when she returned to Westeros, then dusted off her hands and decided, "And a job well done! Guess I don't need to use this skill again for the rest of my life."

Ultimately, my main problem is the same problem I've had since the show passed the books: everything felt rushed which I feel is why I have so many lingering questions. The writers didn't bother and/or have time to explain some of these choices. The Night King should have been defeated in episode nine of season seven. Daenerys should have taken King's Landing halfway through season eight. Jon reluctantly following Daenerys before ultimately killing her needed more than what, half an hour? It was as if the writers didn't know how to do long-form storytelling without George R. R. Martin holding their hand.

[broodwars]

Also, I'm not really understanding why Jon was kept prisoner. He committed the highest treason. A bunch of murderers who have known nothing except murdering before their queen set them free to murder some more but as free men suddenly decide murder is not the answer regarding the man who killed their benefactor. Sure. Ignoring that, why would the Unsullied (and Dothraki?) agree to send Jon to the Night's Watch, a concept they don't understand, then just **** off... immediately? There's no reason for anyone who mattered in Westeros to keep their word. As an act of good faith? Jon just fucks off beyond the Wall anyway, and like, as soon as he gets there. Everyone just turns into the shrug emoji. What was all that **** about sentencing Jon to a life sentence in the Night's Watch where he holds no titles or lands etc. etc. being a compromise and there was no other way? Was lying the plan? Why did everyone play it off as serious? That's weird. Am I having a stroke? Did I just not understanding this correctly?

You know why they did that? Because they were ripping off the ending to the last Hunger Games book/movie, and that's what it did, too.

[ShyGuy]

Welp, MCU is over, Game of Thrones is over, what's next?

[Stratos]

I've changed my stance on D&D, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt for their upcoming Star Wars movies, but after watching the ending and learning all of the things they tossed aside or how they seemed to regard the actors and options, I'm not giving it to them. If the initial trailers wow me enough, I'll check it out, but not because it is being done by them. Also lost most of my interest in the prequels and spin offs for GoT.

I'm stepping away from all of that including the commentary on reddit, and after a while passes I'll restart the GoT books, probably around the time Winds of Winter comes out so I can read them all (I ain't holding out hope for the final book Dream of Spring releasing in Martin's lifetime).

[ThePerm]

A few questions that have been bandied about.

Why didn't the Danny's troops just kill Jon?

No Evidence, This would have pissed off the Unsullied, but by Dothraki rules John would be king. There were still Westeroisi loyal to John in the area. So, they were stalemated. Also, a bunch of slaves have no idea how to act when they don't have their liberator. I agree it would have been better if Jon just walked out like a smooth criminal. He should have said the Dragon killed her, but he isn't a liar.

Why does the night watch still exist?

Sometimes vestigial things last well past their time. Not exactly functional. I imagine with the peace between Westeros and the wildlings Westeros will just start expanding their scope. The north like Winterfell will become the middle.

I think the ending was where it needed to be, but they just didn't develop Bran. That is my only complaint. He just sort of got pushed aside in plotlines.

There is a lot of D&D hate being thrown out, but I would have no idea what Game of Thrones was unless these people existed. I think it's been a good run. A lot of shows end messily, but go watch Dexter. Worse ending ever.

[Adrock]

No Evidence, This would have pissed off the Unsullied, but by Dothraki rules John would be king. There were still Westeroisi loyal to John in the area. So, they were stalemated. Also, a bunch of slaves have no idea how to act when they don't have their liberator.

That’s the point. Without Daenerys, they would be expected to do what they were trained/raised to do. The problem here is that there would be no instance in which Jon is taken prisoner based on the show’s text. No evidence? Jon walks. Evidence and the Unsullied find Jon? Jon dead, son. Evidence and the Dothraki find Jon? Jon king/khal, son. There is no stalemate because neither the Unsullied nor Dothraki operate that way.

Personally, I kept expecting Jon to face a public execution by dragon fire because he disobeyed Daenerys or something except he’s a Targaryen so he can’t be burned by dragon fire. He got burned by regular ol’ run of the mill fire back in one of the earlier seasons so get around that with dragon fire. Anyway, when he doesn’t burn (and everyone sees his dick), that turns the public even more in Jon’s favor. After Daenerys is killed, he would have reluctantly ruled Westeros as like a stopgap king to rebuild King’s Landing before he fucks off beyond the wall. All the “I don’t want [the throne]” made it seem like he was going to end up there whether he wanted it or not which makes more sense than Bran with zero build up. That puts Jon in roughly the same place as a man who always put honor and duty before his own self-interests.

but he isn't a liar.

Jon’s entire arc in season two revolves around pretending to desert the Night’s Watch to join the Wildlings.

[Stratos]

Idea on how to rectify Jon not being executed upon confession, you could imagine that Arya had a sense of what Jon was doing when he told her to go wait outside King's Landing and he would be along shortly. She knew, and went to get Davos/Northmen, who then run up right when Jon confesses and they draw a stalemate agreeing to hold a trial/kings moot to come to an agreement. Unsullied know that a fight could kill them all and they don't get their "justice".

Agree, Jon should have become the reluctant king, because of how much he whined about how "Ah dun wannit, you're mah queen". Bran could have become his Hand, because what other role would befint the 3-eyed-raven?

Either that of Bran is secretly evil/possesed by the night king/merged with the old raven, and they do a sequel show where Sansa has to find Jon and Arya to help her stop Bran.

[ThePerm]

Here would be a better ending. Just re-arange the scenes a bit. John has his meeting with Danny in the throne room but doesn't kill her.  In this version Tyrion hasn't shown up yet. They walk out of the throne room to meet Tyrion. Tyrion smacks the **** out of Danny in front of everybody and then murders her with his hand pendant "You don't kill children!"

This causes an obvious uproar and leads to the execution of Tyrion. But he excepts his fate as a monster. "That's right I killed her! That little bitch killed hundreds of innocent children! She deserved it. " Maybe he picks up a dead child and displays it.

Jon becomes King, and Bran becomes his hand.

[BranDonk Kong]

I thought the ending was fine. The pacing was definitely an issue this season, but overall the story that was told was pretty good. The reason Jon was not executed is because there was no queen to decide his fate, the same reason Jaime Lannister wasn't executed, no? Jon never wanted to be king, so it's fitting that he isn't.

[ThePerm]

Also, I just wonder when Arya Warrior Princess comes out.

[Stratos]

HBO has stated no plans for an Arya spin off. I'm willing to bet most all of the actors, even if they loved the role and would have done it longer, are now eager to try other projects.