Author Topic: Hey! DC's got stuff too... (Official Thread for the DCU of Movies and TV)  (Read 196745 times)

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Offline Spak-Spang

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It is important to note that both Batman Beyond and the Killing Joke were done by the same team...so you know similar ideas can be borrowed.

I HATE what they did with Batgirl...but I think people are misreading the scene.  Batgirl is a woman Batman respects, a strong, moral woman who is capable of fighting crime.  However, he still sees her as a girl needing protection.

Barbara is trying to assert she is a woman and not a sidekick capable of fighting equally with Batman.  (She is wrong she isn't.)  She obviously became infatuated with Batman because why else would you become Batgirl?  And she was already fighting a father that didn't treat her like a grown adult.  (This is pulled from Batman the animated series, but I think it is fair, because it is again the same team.)  So she makes a mistake a asserts herself as a grown woman by attacking and sexually advancing on Batman. 

This is where I understand what writers were trying to do, but it doesn't work.  A) Batman is used to villains using sexuality to try to gain an upper hand.  He shouldn't have fallen for her advance.  B)  Batman should have pushed her further away from the case if she is willing to try to sexually exploit the situation your body should not be a weapon/tool in that way.  C)  This pushes the lie that woman achieve equality and power by being just as sexually aggressive/advancing as men.  This is not liberating but actually the opposite it is making women more likely to be victims, not less. 

 

Offline UncleBob

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Well, Suicide Squad is a movie.  Mostly.

No where near as bad as Batman v. Superman (story, flow, etc.), but the fight scenes were... pretty blah.  The soundtrack overwhelms the ambience of the entire film.  Almost everyone but Quinn and Deadshot seem to be there just to be there (Seriously, Killer Crocker does essentially two things the entire movie.  The first, man, it was a good thing they conveniently needed to go through the sewer.... the second... you have a guy on the team who's singular skill is that he throws things really well.  So, let's have someone else throw the bomb at the end...  and the guy who throws things well?  Yeah, he throws a boomerang for surveillance that gets shot down in about three seconds.  Glad he came along...

I'm not sure who this movie is for.  Casual fans will just be confused and turned off by anything that isn't Will Smith being bad ass (or as close as this movie gets)  Hardcore fans will hate just about everything about it.

Oh well, I'd better stop now, before someone petitions to shut down NWR for giving the movie a bad review.
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Offline TofuFury

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So I watched Suicide Squad today. Now, keep in mind that I enjoyed BvS despite it's gaping flaws, but I really liked the movie. I've just accepted that the DC movieverse is completely different from how I'd prefer it to be, with the CWverse being more in line of what I want.


I enjoyed the characters, from Deadshot and Harley, to even Diablo (who I think is an unsung star of this film). Yeah, the story might not be the greatest in terms of a threat. Yes, a new city is in danger, and there's an ominous thing in the sky going on. Yet I enjoyed seeing these characters get into this crazy situation and try to work together and stop it.


I think people will either love or hate Leto's Joker. I thought he was fine. What works is that they sold the relationship between him and Harley. I can't imagine the Ledger Joker having Harley around, but for Leto's it made sense.
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Offline Stogi

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Everytime I see this thread I want to post stuff about the District of Columbia (where I live).
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Suicide Squad was good.
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Offline nickmitch

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Everytime I see this thread I want to post stuff about the District of Columbia (where I live).

Wait, you live in DC? I live in Silver Spring.
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Offline Plugabugz

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This movie felt like more setup for later movies rather than anything about itself (like Guardians of the Galaxy) and felt like what it did didn't really matter.

Half way through i felt like the movie simply came out at the wrong time in the timeline, knowing Justice League is next year.

Offline Stogi

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Everytime I see this thread I want to post stuff about the District of Columbia (where I live).

Wait, you live in DC? I live in Silver Spring.

Vienna , VA
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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I don't know how legit this is, and I haven't seen Suicide Squad yet, but we all know how pissed off Jared Leto was that most of his scenes were cut from the movie right?

Well there is rumor that there will be a "Ultimate Cut" of SS that puts the rest of the movie back together again, so with that said...

this is from Reddit, and like I said before I don't know how legit it is, but this is a supposed list of all the deleted scenes (from the original cut shown to test audiences) missing in the theatrical cut (that was recut by the same team that cut the trailers for the movie)



Quote
[text from pic]
  • In early cuts, the movie's opening detailed June Moon's posession by Enchantress in real tome. Reshoots reshuffled the scene to be later in the movie in flashback form in favour of a new opening centered on Deadshot.
  • Deadshot in the prison cell, watching the rain fall and thinking about his daughter.
  • El Diablo observing the flame of a lit match, before putting it out due to his vow to no longer use his powers.
  • El Diablo being escorted to a training center by being placed in a tube that fills with water to quel his flames, and then unceremoniously dropped onto the ground.
  • Early interviews showed Captain Boomerang's racism and sexism, but the movie is light on examples of such behaviour, which have apparently been deleted. Most of them were reportedly directed at Katana, to whom Boomerang is attracted to.
  • Early reports indicated more backstory for Killer Croc, revealing that he entire life as a social outcast due to his physical appearancr and has convinced himself that he is beautiful in his own way. Croc crossed paths with Batman while working as muscle-for-hire for numerous Gotham's crime bosses, while secretly planning to take over one day. There were also scenes displaying his affinity for making sculptures out of discarded materials. Aside from jokes about Croc viewing himself as 'beautiful,' one of these were retained in the final cut.
  • Also deleted was a scene where he becomes sick at the helicopter escort to Midway City, throws up half-digested pieces of goat, and then eats them again, disgusting the nearby Navy Seals.
  • Early cuts reportedly included a passing reference to Slipknot being serial rapist, likely to further paint him as unsympathetic to the audience ahead of his own death.
  • More scenes of Rick Flag and June Moon's romantic relationship, including him reading the files of the Suicide Squad recruits after Waller delivers them to him.
  • Another scene where Flag and Moon are out on a date.
  • "Extended scene of Joker interrogating Captain Griggs, including the line, "I can't wait to show you my toys," which was in every trailer, but was removed from the movie."
  • Joker and his men escaping after shooting up a restaurant. Harley, who is already affiliated with the Joker, follows them on a motorcycle and intercepts their car. Joker bangs his head against the glass in frustration.
  • Joker and Harley then get into a fight, which ends with Harley pointing a gun at Joker's head. Joker sweet-talks Harley into lowering the gun, charming her, then backhands her across the face. Afterwards he sweet-talks her again and they kiss.
  • Extended Ace Chemicals scene where Harley jumps into the chemicals. More bits of dialogue from Joker.
  • Extended Batmobile chase scene with more interaction between Joker and Harley. One of the examples, presented in all the trailers, is the Joker punching the roof of his car.
  • Harley using her baseball bat as a mock gun to play shoot at invisible foes.
  • Extended scene of Joker breaking into the nanobomb manufacture facility to arrange for Harley's neck-bomb to be disabled.
  • More interactions between Harley and Boomerang. Early cuts apparently included her really disliking him despite growing affectionate to all the other members of the squad.
  • Extended bar scene with Harley taking everyone's orders. Deadshot calls for a shot, Katana wants whiskey, Croc and Boomerang settle for beer, Harley asks Diablo wants and he prefers water which she jokes, "is a good idea." The scene was featured in the trailers, but in the movie it cuts directly to Deadshot's speech about them all almost pulling the mission off.
  • Removed several scenes with the Joker to repaint his relationship with Harley as more loving rather than abusive.
  • Joker and Harley get into an argument after he rescues her in the hijacked helicopter. In early cuts he reportedly pushes her out to kill her, then the helicopter gets shot down. This was apparently reworked into the helicopter getting shot down first and Joker pushing her out to save her.
  • Joker returns during the final battle in the subway station, face half-burnt from the helicopter crash, which apparently leads to a brief altercation with the Squad. He calls for Harley to escape with him but she refuses for once in order to help her friends, and the Joker escapes after throwing a live grenade at the group to cover his own escape.

Offline nickmitch

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So, yet another movie that's supposed to be saved by it's Director's Cut?
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Offline Plugabugz

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It should have been in this order:

Batman (although this would have been one year after Dark Knight Rises, so unlikely to have happened)
Man of Steel (which makes the Wayne Enterprises references make sense)
Wonder Woman
BVS (dropping all the JL bits and instead making them appear in the four previous films as cameos)
Suicide Squad


Offline nickmitch

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I wonder who the villain will be?  I'm guessing either Brainiac or Metallo.  Lobo (but only Ron Perlman) could work and even tie in to the JL film, with Lobo looking to collect a bounty set up by Darkseid.

I think, if they really wanted to do a "soft" reboot and just completely shift the tone and breath life into the film, they should go with Simon Pegg as Manchester Black.  I think with a little hair dye and a badass jacket, he'd be perfect.  Might be a good way for Superman to re-establish a moral highground.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 01:27:18 AM by nickmitch »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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well, Geoff Johns(?) is in charge now right, and he is a comic guy, so probably the best thing Snyder did in BvS was kill his version of Superman so that Johns can re-invent him into the Supes he is supposed to be.
We've only seen a small snippet of JL so far, but it appears to carry on with the grim-dark (just like SS), so maybe slipping in a MoS2 inbetween JL1 & JL2 would also allow them to lighten up the DCCU a little bit.

I just hope Snyder is NOT directing it, as I think he already made his bed and should focus on making JL an actual good movie before DC makes him stand in the corner w/ a producer credit and no directorial efforts going forward.

Offline TofuFury

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I wonder who the villain will be?  I'm guessing either Brainiac or Metallo.  Lobo (but only Ron Perlman) could work and even tie in to the JL film, with Lobo looking to collect a bounty set up by Darkseid.

I think, if they really wanted to do a "soft" reboot and just completely shift the tone and breath life into the film, they should go with Simon Pegg as Manchester Black.  I think with a little hair dye and a badass jacket, he'd be perfect.  Might be a good way for Superman to re-establish a moral highground.  Bu


If DC doesn't use Brainiac or Metallo for the next movie, an adaptation of What's So Funny about Truth, Justice, & the American Way would be a wise decision for them to make. It's the perfect way to recenter Superman back to where he should be.
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Offline nickmitch

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I just hope Snyder is NOT directing it, as I think he already made his bed and should focus on making JL an actual good movie before DC makes him stand in the corner w/ a producer credit and no directorial efforts going forward.

That presumes WB cares about making a good movie.  They know what the returns will look like for Justice League and MoS2.  The problem is whether or not the audience is already turned off enough.  The sad part of that is it'll basically bring down WW's box office, which WB can write-off as "Nobody wants to see movies starring chicks".

I wonder who the villain will be?  I'm guessing either Brainiac or Metallo.  Lobo (but only Ron Perlman) could work and even tie in to the JL film, with Lobo looking to collect a bounty set up by Darkseid.

I think, if they really wanted to do a "soft" reboot and just completely shift the tone and breath life into the film, they should go with Simon Pegg as Manchester Black.  I think with a little hair dye and a badass jacket, he'd be perfect.  Might be a good way for Superman to re-establish a moral highground.


If DC doesn't use Brainiac or Metallo for the next movie, an adaptation of What's So Funny about Truth, Justice, & the American Way would be a wise decision for them to make. It's the perfect way to recenter Superman back to where he should be.

Agreed.  And they already have an animated adaptation of that story that can be used as a starting point.
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Offline TofuFury

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If DC doesn't use Brainiac or Metallo for the next movie, an adaptation of What's So Funny about Truth, Justice, & the American Way would be a wise decision for them to make. It's the perfect way to recenter Superman back to where he should be.

Agreed.  And they already have an animated adaptation of that story that can be used as a starting point.


That's a good film. Not my favorite DC animation (Red Hood is my favorite), but I enjoyed it. All they need to do is just make it live action and stick to the script.
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Offline ThePerm

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finally watched Suicide Squad. I can now use the internet again.

I thought the movie was decent in a good way. It had issues, but was better than something like Batman and Robin, or a few of the X-men movies. The problem with the movie was not content. The content was all good. The problem was structure. I liked all the portrayals of all the characters. Croc could have been taller. Though the Joker was great, I saw glimpses of the Mark Hamil and some Cesar Romero Joker in there. I wish they fleshed out Slipknot a little more, but I love what they did with his character.

So on to spoiler chat because its easier, also Inglorious Basterd's spoilers

I laughed really hard when they killed slipknot, mainly because he's a useless character that just ties knots. I wish there was more Joker, I liked this gangster realistic scarface version of joker. He seems kind of like a real world Joker to some extent. Definitely need to buy the extended cut. Enchantress was cool as ****. She reminded me of something out of Eternal Darkness, a real lovecraftian character. They over CG'd her brother and his monions. I didn't like how they set up the story. As I said the movies content was good, but its structure was bad.

The movie is essentially what happens when you cross a dirty dozen(havent watched dirty dozen) and Escape from New York. Escape from New York is weird because its a movie where I love the characters, but don't find the movie otherwise particularly spectacular. Take Escape from New York and add 45 minutes of exposition.

A better movie to compare this to is Inglorious Basterds. Inglorious Basterd's does it right. Its a Men on a Mission movie and manages to get around the plot structure correctly. There are short vignettes during the movie that tell some of the characters backstories. Inglorious Basterds actually had to cut some of these. One time during an independent film festival I saw someone who directed an unauthorized Donnie Donnowitz vignette that was what had been in the script and got cut out. Good stuff.

The main problem with this movie is editing.
What they should have done was:
Made the June Moon Enchantress story longer. 10 minutes of her origin story would have been enough to set up the movie. It should have been Enchantress Story all lumped together and Extended. No separation of character arcs until the threat is established.

Alternatively. The movie could have started off telling the story of Harley Quinn. She's Obviously the most liked character in the movie. If they had extended her stuff and then moved on from there, that would have worked.

For the most part I think the movie succeeded doing what it needed to do, but I think had they formatted it structurally better it could have came together. It would have been better if it had a strong establishment of the 3 act structure instead of meandering through the parts. The climax was also a lamer version of ghost busters.

I've read the Star Wars script ,and if anyone else has read it you would know that structurally it is a mess, and the movie saved by smart editing.


I'd give the movie a 7.8, not this 22% the internet has been giving it.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 10:59:46 PM by ThePerm »
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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22% was the Tomato Meter - I think it's actually settled at around 27% now, but that just means that out of all the critics reviews, 27% gave it a favorable rating (5/10 and above?).

It didn't seem nearly as bad as most critics reviewed it, even thought it still had some of the problems they just couldn't seem to get past. But over all it was an entertaining movie, even if it was heavily flawed, so that puts it above MoS and BvS in my book.

Offline ThePerm

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The other thing about the 22-27% it seemed that a whole ton of the early reviews were actually by people who weren't particularly comic book fans or at least dc fans. There is a whole thing where the ones who are fans do not need all the back stories or motivations. There were some things in the movie where I could see if I didn't already know the characters their motivations wouldn't have made a lot of sense. When I was laughing at slipknots death, my mom asked why I laughed, I told her he's a useless character, all he does is tie knots.

The problem with having so many ensemble character movies so early on is that they tend to have a blender feeling and have to spend some extra time in exposition. A movie like civil war relies on the exposition in other movies.  On the other hand I can see these movies actually catching up to Marvel pretty soon.

The next set of movies is going to be Batman and Wonder Woman and Justice League. I'm most excited for the Batman movie. I just wonder what they hell are they going to do with it?

In an Alternate universe Heath Ledger wouldn't have died and the sequel to the Dark Knight would have been the beginning of the DC universe. Or alternatively, they would have made better choices with Green Lantern and that would have kicked off the DC universe.

I mean with Green Lantern if they decided not to CG his suit and given him a cool villain then I bet it would have taken off.

I need a Rick and Morty cable box.
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Offline TofuFury

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When I was laughing at slipknots death, my mom asked why I laughed, I told her he's a useless character, all he does is tie knots.

The next set of movies is going to be Batman and Wonder Woman and Justice League. I'm most excited for the Batman movie. I just wonder what they hell are they going to do with it?

In an Alternate universe Heath Ledger wouldn't have died and the sequel to the Dark Knight would have been the beginning of the DC universe. Or alternatively, they would have made better choices with Green Lantern and that would have kicked off the DC universe.

I mean with Green Lantern if they decided not to CG his suit and given him a cool villain then I bet it would have taken off.


     
 
  As soon as they introduced Slipknot, I knew he wasn't long for the movie. They needed someone to try and escape to show that Waller meant business, and it wasn't going to be Boomerang. I found it funny as well, though.


 I'd still argue that the Green Lantern movie wasn't as bad as many make it out to be. Ryan Reynolds was perfectly fine as Hal Jordan, but just needed better material to work with. I think the movie would've been better keeping it Earth focused, then introduce the Corps at the end. Maybe start off with Dr. Light as the villain. Not a five star villain, but since he can manipulate GL constructs, it could've been a nice face off.
 
 I'm excited to see what they do with Wonder Woman and Batman. I like Affleck's Batman, and Leto's Joker, so it should be a fun film.
 
 On Flash TV news, it looks like they're finally introducing Mirror Master in season 3. I can't wait, as the Rogues are my favorite part of the Flash mythos, and Mirror Master is my favorite Rogue.

 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 12:10:31 AM by TofuFury »
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Offline UncleBob

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Suicide Squad spoilers: Aside from Harley, Deadshot, and *maybe* Diablo, Slipnot was really the other member of the team that helped serve a purpose.  I wouldn't have put it past Waller to have had him and Boomerrang on the team just so she could show she was serious without risking one of the teammates that actually helped.

Green Lantern.  Ugh.  You have a character with 60+ years worth of stories to work from and you take the basic idea from one of the most ill-conceived stories of the 'event' era and you actually make it *worse*...

This seems to be the major difference between DC and Marvel.  Marvel has comic creators  (who are fans) working on every aspect of the movies - and it shows, right down to the wings on Cap's costume.  Warner has movie people making movies - and they have no respect for the characters who have been around for upwards of 75 years.

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I'm too lazy to write about how bad Suicide Squad was. I didn't hate it like Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice, but I didn't like it either. I'll get back to this.

My problem with Green Latern was all the Earth stuff. I thought the best parts were on Oa.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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The thing with Green Lantern, is that it was originally done by the very guy that is now doing DCTV on The CW, but much like with BvS, SS, (and supposedly WW as well :( ) the studio came in and made executive decisions about the direction of the film, therefore making drastic changes to the script.

Apparently the original script was much better, but the studio wanted a GIANT enemy event at the end, but really just messed up most of the movie and left us with that mess.

Luckily Berlanti found his success on TV and the movie division continues to be a hot mess.

Actually, until the most recent change with WB/DC to get a Comic guy at the top to oversee their cinematic universe direction, They wouldn't even allow the comic people to be involved in the movies at all. When they should have been tapping the then excellent Animated DC storytellers to give original script treatments to the movie people, they blocked them out, citing that they don't know anything about movies or something ridiculous like that.

I'm hoping that if DC takes anything from the outline Marvel has laid out, is that they not only lay out an actual plan, but hire someone to make sure all the movies stay on the path (for continuity reasons). and let the comic people, you know, the people that actually know the characters you're making movies about, deliver script treatments, and just generally be involved in the movie process, so we get good, faithful to an extent, characters in good movies that make sense as a whole.
Right now the DCCU is a mess, and they seem to be creating the path as they go forward, crossing bridges as they get there.

This would have made sense for Marvel to do 8 years ago, as they were trailblazing this approach, but even back then they had a general plan laid out. They just weren't sure if they were going to be able to execute it all, since they were a brand new studio tied a company with history of money troubles. DC doesn't have that excuse as they've been owned by WB forever.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:19:08 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline TofuFury

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Maybe with the mixed reactions WB is getting with their comic films, they might let the comics division have more say into the film universe. One can only dream, right?


And I accept that I'm in the minority about the Green Lantern movie. I think growing up with Kyle Rayner as my GL probably makes me wish for a more Earth focused Lantern movie over a space story. I knew the movie was in trouble when I went to a Walmart, and all the GL figures were alien Lanterns I had never heard of besides mainstays like Killowog.


And regardless of what anyone else say about the film, Carol Ferris calling Hal out and recognizing him instantly is one of my favorite bits in any super hero film. It's about time they tried that with a hero.
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