Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Dinar87 on March 24, 2024, 09:18:39 AM
Title: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on March 24, 2024, 09:18:39 AM
The switch has had many great games released over its lifespan such as Metroid Dread and Fire emblem three houses, but for every year we get good games like them, we also get dry years full of waiting.
2018 was just smash ultimate. Kirby star allies was underwhelming to kirby fans. Wii u ports. 2020 obviously. 2021 did give us metroid dread, but that's it. And while I love metroid dread, it's also a very short game.
I blame series like pokemon falling off in quality. If pokemon wasn't completely ruined and was actually good like it was last console gen, it would help a lot filling out the years.
As it stands we're just waiting for the switch 2 with nothing but remakes to play and one princess peach game designed for little kids according to the reviews.
If they're going all in on remakes, how about giving us that Fire emblem 4 remake Nintendo?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on March 24, 2024, 07:24:11 PM
It sounds like you have very particular tastes in games, and while Nintendo satisfies your proclivities for some, you don't always feel that your tastes are satisfied on a yearly basis.
No platform is wholly represented by its first-party releases, though it might have seemed as such during the N64 and GCN years. The Switch has had an incredibly healthy third party and indie scene, with many games filling the void left by your Fire Emblems and Pokemons and Metroids and whatever. And we're not just talking about old ports to new systems, either.
Asking for recommendations might result in some hidden gems that you may have overlooked.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on March 26, 2024, 02:38:03 PM
Meant to reply to this a couple days ago earlier but now is as good a time as any.
I agree somewhat with Dinar87 in that Switch has been an odd system for me and my feelings about Nintendo's efforts on it. It was late 2018 when I finally got the system. For me, I played Breath of the Wild on Wii U and so I have a bit of disconnect when thinking of it and Switch. Frankly, it was clearly supposed to be a Wii U game with Gamepad functionality and I wish it could have been released that way but that ship sailed long ago. I did quite enjoy Mario Odyssey and felt it the strongest Mario title since Super Mario Galaxy 2.
I was less enthused with seeing ports of NSMBU and Super Mario 3D World. 3D World is a bit more galling because they added Bowser's Fury which I'd really love to play but have never felt like paying for another copy of 3D World. Playing 3D World through with 4 person co-op did interest me as possibly making the purchase more worth it and different from my Wii U time with it but I'm not sure how easy it would be to wrangle up three other players from the community to set aside time to do that. We can't even get a co-op playthrough of Kirby and the Amazing Mirror happening. :( It took near the end to finally get a new Mario platformer in Super Mario Wonder. I felt Super Mario Party was the best Mario Party game since probably Mario Party 8. Mario Party: Superstars wasn't the slam-dunk I thought it would be. It just sort of emphasized why my friends and I have often stuck with the GC games. All the orbs and capsules and variety of maps and strong minigames make them the strongest era of Mario Party games still. The Switch games have been unable to surpass them. Mario Kart 8 was pretty close to the same game that was available on the Wii U so it was kind of disappointing in that regard. It obviously greatly expanded on that version by adding all those extra courses over the last year. Having not played Mario Kart Tour, it meant there were more fresh courses for me than perhaps others yet I'll admit to not really touching that content much as I had recently finishing playing through it and getting 3 Stars for all the Cups a couple months before the content was announced and had my fill of Mario Kart for awhile. Mario's also brought the sports over with Tennis, Golf, and Soccer. Nothing about those titles seemed to be considered a Must-Play or best of the series from what I have seen in fan reaction but they were solid enough entries once all the extra content was eventually added to them.
The one Mario I was quite excited for yet still have yet to touch was Paper Mario: The Origami King. I still get pumped for the Paper Mario series, however, I've also treated as something special in that I'm trying to space out and savor the series and not burn out on it. It's sort of like me and Professor Layton. I'd let a good three years go between each entry or so. I need to finally get around to Azran Legacy. I finished Miracle Mask back around 2020, maybe 2019. I'm ready for more Layton again. Likewise, I finally played through Paper Mario: Color Splash last year so Origami King is all that's left but still feels kind of soon for a new Paper Mario.
I believe that sums up the state of Mario on Switch releases. As for Zelda, there was another release of Hyrule Warriors which had already seen releases on Wii U and 3DS. There was a sequel to it with Age of Calamity, a game I'll forget exists until I think of the first Hyrule Warriors. Again, from comments I've seen about it, it just seemed like more Hyrule Warriors so if you liked the first then you should like the sequel but it didn't do anything knew to distinguish itself aside from the story setting and bringing in BotW characters to use. Skyward Sword was ported over but I finally played my Wii copy of that either before or around the time of the Switch port. Link's Awakening got the remake treatment. I have meant to play it a few times but keep dragging my feet since I've played the game so it's not exactly a new experience there either. In the end, Tears of the Kingdom will be the first fresh Zelda experience of the Switch for me yet I've held off from playing it since it came out. Partly, I've wanted to get other gaming things done before playing it before I commit to the weeks and months I'd expect to play it and also because seeing a lot of the same world being used has made feel it will be a bit of a let-down to the original BotW in which everything to see was brand new. I know there's been changes to the places seen in BotW and I wonder if it might give the feeling of visiting a town you spent years in and moved away and then came back to visit after sometime. You take in what's new and what's changed. There's still discovery but its not the same type of discovery as a new world. It's one of the things I've always like about Civilization games. Going out and exploring the new world that has been generated for a game. With Age of Calamity and Tears of the Kingdom, it also feels like it has taken over the Zelda brand and Nintendo is milking that for all the can but its also making Zelda feel a bit stale now. Its BotW themed or ports of older games. That just sort of adds to the boredom feeling you are likely talking about.
I'm glad that Metroid Dread got a release. The promise of Metroid Prime 4 made me more motivated to buy a Switch when Nintendo first released the system as it had been so long since MP3. It's been disappointing that after 7 years, there's been absolutely nothing has shown for it yet. Dread helped filled that Metroid craving and I think it's probably the best Metroid game since MP3 but I want to get back to some 3D Metroid again.
I agree that all the Wii U porting of Nintendo games has been disappointing but having 3DS and Wii ports now happening has just further seemed like Nintendo slowing down on new sequels. Even when they've done new sequels, the response has been that the Wii U stuff was better. Yoshi got Yoshi's Crafted World on Switch while Woolly World stayed on Wii U and 3DS but people have ranked the latter game as better than the former. Super Mario Maker 2 did not seem to have as much enthusiasm or love compared to the original on Wii U and 3DS. (At least, not the way this community talks about it on Discord.) Animal Crossing: New Horizon was a phenomenon yet I saw so much outcry from fans about it not being as full of content as New Leaf because Nintendo slowly added events / festivities to it over the course of a year. Now all that has probably been alleviated and it seems to allow for the most customization of things yet. But no one seems to care about it as much as New Leaf. It feels similar to Super Mario Maker 2 at this point. XC2 was not as loved as XCX or the original but XC3 seems to have been the better sequel but it took a long time for that better sequel to show up. Sort of like how Pikmin 3 got an early port to Switch and it was just last year that the sequel of Pikmin 4 was released. Practically 10 years after Pikmin 3 first came out. I haven't really gotten into the Splatoon scene but there, too, it just seems like no one feels 2 or 3 have done anything substantially better than the first game. It's just that Nintendo dropping events for a previous title has caused people to move on to the next. It's really living up to the reputation of possibly being Nintendo's answer to Call of Duty and getting the committed fanbase to move on and buy each new sequel without having to do much to expand the game. Just support the new title with events and let the old one wither away.
Smash Ultimate is an odd beast. Clearly, it lived up to its name of ultimate by having every fighter from all past games on the roster and has the most stages of any game. Yet, that also meant it didn't have a lot of new fighters added at first. Likewise, by bringing back mostly previous stages, it also felt a bit more derivative compared to past entries. It's like the next Mario Kart game having 95% tracks from previous games and 5% new. More new characters and stages did come to help create more uniqueness from past entries and freshen up the experience more but it also came at the cost of having to further pay more for that newness. I did pop in Ultimate one night as I flirted with the idea of playing through it for awhile and collecting spirits. I find that mode ok and perhaps it will win me over more when I get back to the game but gol-darn it! I miss trophies!! I understand Sakurai's reasoning on why it added more work and they saw it as unnecessary but to me the collecting of trophies is a core part of the Smash experience and why I play those games. I hardly do it for the multiplayer. Getting the trophies in Melee and seeing these various characters, items, and places and reading the blurbs about them helped get me curious about other Nintendo properties and seeking out past games and current games for these characters. I enjoyed seeing what new trophies would make it into the next game and the reminders of stuff I'd played in between Smash entries or had missed out on still. It's why I didn't care as much about collecting the stickers in Brawl. It's was just promotional art assets being used with no notes compared to the trophies. That's all the Spirits are for me in Ultimate. Just overused promotional artwork I've seen many times before. And that's my Smash rant for today. Thank you all for ignoring it again.
I did not get involved with Labo. The 1-2 Switch games have not been well received. NintendoLand was better for mini-game fun. WarioWare has two entries but WarioWare Gold or earlier entries like Twisted seem to still outshine those new entries on Switch. ARMS has been forgotten. Fire Emblem got two Fire Emblem Warriors games and those seem to have been forgotten as well. Engage was not as well received as Three Houses which you've brought up. Kirby Star Allies was a disappointment for many after Robobot. Kirby's Dream Buffet is nothing special either. Some people seemed to like Kirby Super Clash but I bounced off that game pretty fast. Forgotten World was pretty good but it straddled a line where sometimes I was asking myself "Do I actually like this game?". Pokemon got another remake of Red/Blue with Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee along with a remake/remaster port of Pearl/Diamond and Sword/Shield did not seem to get well received by the fans. But there seems to have been a rebound there with Legends: Arceus and Scarlet/Violet despite technical issues with the latter. Which seems to be part of a trend on Switch where a series might get two entries with one entry being good and the other lackluster.
In that regard, I'm with you Dinar87. Nintendo's output on Switch has been a very mixed bag for me based on my Nintendo gaming history. I also recognize that my situation is different for a lot of other Switch users. Many users could very well be in their teens and twenties and thus not have the back catalogue of games I do or will have played a bunch of these ports on a previous system already. Heck, the Wii U sales numbers indicate that the vast majority of Switch owners likely never played those ported Wii U games before. So, for them, the Switch experience will be totally different. For me, Nintendo's only had a small number of original games for Switch that were really great. Most others have been sort of average. Surprisingly, it has been the third party stuff that's been more unique to me. Having stuck in the Nintendo ecosphere for decades, having ports of all sorts of things like Katamari Damacy, Lumines, Grim Fandango, and Batman: Arkham Asylum that I've always wanted to try out has been great. It's those games that have been getting me to keep playing my Switch more these days. Indie stuff like Hollow Knight, Untitled Goose Game and even Suika Game have provided me with new engaging experiences to keep me invested in my Switch. And there's still so much more in those scenes I'd like to get to such as the recent Tomb Raider Trilogy (never played any of those games) or Cocoon.
Still, a lot of Indie stuff can be rather short and fleeting and third party stuff can lack that Nintendo polish and magic that keeps you wanting more. Nothing hits quite like the hype for a new entry in a Nintendo series you love that looks like it could be blast to play. A sequel to Endless Ocean is surprising but it doesn't hit the same for me compared to seeing a surprise announcement of a brand new 3D F-Zero with 8 Cups and 55 racers. I'm glad that the success of Switch has caused Nintendo to do some obscure porting like Famicom Detective Club and the Another Code games but that stuff is like the dinner rolls and gravy. Where's the sizzling T-Bone steak and twice-baked potato? Stuck in the oven waiting for Switch 2 to finish and so we have to stick it out with some appetizers and try to get hyped on that for now.
I'm definitely curious what Nintendo's software output will be for Switch 2. There's not a lot of Wii U Porting left. Will we see more GC, Wii and 3DS porting to make up for that or will Nintendo slow down on the porting? If they slow down on porting, does that mean original software for the system or just less output by them?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on March 26, 2024, 02:40:05 PM
My wall of text aside, one thing I'd like to know from Dinar87 is what are the games/series from Nintendo that you are a fan of and that you want to see new entries for to get hyped? Are there some series you've never played or tried? Are there some you've tried but just don't care for?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 26, 2024, 03:14:05 PM
You really have to look beyond Nintendo published games or you'll never be happy since it's impossible for Nintendo to constantly release certain types of games every single year.
You mention 2018, 2020 and 2021 as dry years when in reality they were anything but.
2018 had 177 games that received positive reviews.
Plus two of the highest reviewed games are Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown and Unicorn Overlord. The new Prince of Persia is a Metroid style game and Unicorn Overlord is a Strategy RPG, the same genre Fire Emblem is in. That's 2 highly reviewed games that should be appealing directly to you, but you seem to be ignoring them because they're not from Nintendo.
Seriously, this is one of the reason why I've grown distant from many of the hardcore Nintendo fans online. The Switch has been home to an insane amount of high quality games that just get completely ignored by the kind of people said games are literally being made for. Especially in recent years where there's suddenly been all this Gamecube nostalgia and Nintendo fans declaring the Gamecube the greatest system ever made and how the Gamecube era was the best time, when it's like, are you fucking kidding me.
The Gamecube had 187 games that received positives reviews its entire lifespan. In comparison, the Switch in just 2018 alone had 177 positive reviewed games and 2018 was supposed to be such a terrible year with nothing to play. :rolleyes:
Never before has a Nintendo system offered the variety and gameplay experiences that the Switch has and yet some people are acting like we're in the final days of the Wii all over again. The Wii in 2011 and 2012 COMBINED had only 19 games with positive reviews
The Switch has literally had more good games released for it in less then 3 months of this year alone, then the Wii had it's entire last 2 years combined.
Still, a lot of Indie stuff can be rather short and fleeting and third party stuff can lack that Nintendo polish and magic that keeps you wanting more. Nothing hits quite like the hype for a new entry in a Nintendo series you love that looks like it could be blast to play.
Only that's not true, there's a lot of indie and third party stuff on Switch that's just as good as the types of games Nintendo releases. This is N64 Yamauchi era propaganda that too many still have in their heads.
Just go down the list. Yes, Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey and Tear of the Kingdom are at the very top but after them you have lots of third party titles right around what Nintendo's releasing. Yes every gen the very top Nintendo games like Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy, Breath of the Wild get the best reviews, but those titles are very rare even by Nintendo standards. Outside of the very top 1-3 Nintendo games each gen, the best third party games are easily competing with everything else.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on March 28, 2024, 05:06:50 AM
Especially in recent years where there's suddenly been all this Gamecube nostalgia and Nintendo fans declaring the Gamecube the greatest system ever made and how the Gamecube era was the best time, when it's like, are you fucking kidding me.
Recent years? The GameCube nostalgia was already happening after a couple of the Wii years. I know. I've been here and I've been part of it! ;) ;D GameCube love has been happening through the Wii U and now. The demand for a GC VC has perhaps been a part of it but I'd say there's also another reason. There's a lot of GC software that hasn't quite been surpassed or is iconic. Like I mentioned about the Mario Party series. The Mario Party games that followed have been kind of off and never quite hit the mark like those games during its prime. F-Zero GX is the best game in that franchise and the last 3D F-Zero game. There's been nothing to surpass it since. Paper Mario:TTYD has been a rallying cry for some that want the series to go back to its RPG roots and keeps getting named as the best game in the series by a bunch of Paper Mario fans.
I believe Smash Bros. Ultimate should be the definitive game for tourneys and stuff going forward but Melee has hung on so long in that tourney sphere and people still can't quite quit it. Melee kept the GameCube controllers going through to today and probably played a factor in the system's legacy getting acclaimed while others soured on Wiimotes and the Wii U Gamepad. Around 2011 or 2012, this site did a tournament to declare the Best Nintendo Game of the past 12 years and Metroid Prime was the winner. Even now, Metroid Prime is often named favorite or best Metroid game by a lot of people when ranking the series or at least the best of the 3D Metroids which isn't a big list. Zelda is a mixed bag. BotW is my rank for number 1 but I still go to Wind Waker for Number 2. Twilight Princess also has its fans. That's why people keep hoping for those games to get ported to Switch. They made an impact with fans of the series and for those that miss the traditional Zelda style that BotW/Totk has deviated from those games are getting more nostalgia love.
There's a lot of sleeper software on the system that has its champions. Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance was considered the top Fire Emblem game until Awakening came and gave the series greater popularity. Again, Ike in Smash Bros may have further helped keep that title in the minds of Nintendo fans. Chibi-Robo's GC has been that series best outing. The third game might possibly be better but Reggie committed the unforgiveable crime of not porting the game out of Japan after the second game was weirdly released in NA. Nintendo hasn't returned to Wave Race or 1080 snowboarding since the GC. Some still hope for Nintendo to follow up Eternal Darkness or to try porting that game. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat with bongos is still one of the oddest and so-insane-it's-genius games Nintendo's ever released. Another hidden gem is Battalion Wars. There was a sequel with Wii but it wasn't as highly regarded as the first and seemed to bomb sales-wise ending the potential series which is too bad since I like Battalion Wars over Advance Wars. (And here's something weird. I wanted to see how NWR ranked the two but there is no NWR review for BW2 despite the fact that Pale posted in a thread that Karl and him had both received review copies of the game. Way to let everyone down, guys! No wonder staff hardly get review copies now! >:( )
Even with some third party stuff, other companies seemed to have defining entries. Has Resident Evil ever surpassed the heights it seemed to hit with RE4? I don't follow the series well enough to know. Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2 seems to be stuck on the Cube with it never being ported or released anywhere else since. There's also RS3 but it wasn't as good as 2. Factor 5 would later go defunct thanks to betting on PS3 so they never surpassed 2. And Sega! The Super Monkey Ball series has somehow continued on all these years despite none of the newer entries surpassing the start of the series at this time with 1 & 2. Even Sonic seems to have had his last few good years at this time. For all their flaws, the two Sonic Adventure games (particularly 2) stay fixed in gamer's minds as some of the highlights of the series particularly in 3D. There's been some other well regarded games like Sonic Colors and Sonic Mania but the brand was much stronger at this time. (It would also crumble at this time with Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog :P ) Tales of Symphonia often seems to be named as the height of that series with maybe Phantasia or Vesperia as other candidates. That's why people were so upset with how botched the recent Namco port of it was which means the GC version is still the definitive way to play it. In fact, that's happened with a few GC ports in which the best way version is still the GC copy.
However, I didn't really want to get into third party software so much as my focus is more on Nintendo's output which is, what I believe, the original intent of this thread. When Dinar87 talks dry years, he's only talking about what Nintendo's released and not what third parties also released. Likewise, Nintendo's output was also the focus in my earlier post. It's why I've been in the Nintendo ecosystem for more than 30 years (:o that long already!) and have stuck with their systems whether it be a Wii U or Switch. It's their franchises and games that I love and I buy pretty much most of the software they put out unless I'm really sure it's not for me like Labo. I'm willing to give it all a fair shake like Wii Fit or Crosswords 3DS. That doesn't mean that everything is an instant winner or a favorite. That's why you see the discussions and arguments about what entries or games people think were well done and which ones weren't and why they think something why some games were more successful than others.
When it comes to the Switch, there will no doubt be titles people will want to see made still available in the future or that Nintendo might release for nostalgia / pleasing the fans like we've seen with the recent Super Mario RPG remake and coming TTYD port. Stuff like BotW, Odyssey, FE:Three Houses, Metroid Prime and even Luigi's Mansion 3 or possibly Smash Ultimate seem like instant candidates. But after that, I'm not so sure. Will there be people wanting Origami King or Yoshi's Crafted World or Kirby Star Allies and other such Nintendo Switch titles at that time?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on March 28, 2024, 06:44:27 AM
Still, a lot of Indie stuff can be rather short and fleeting and third party stuff can lack that Nintendo polish and magic that keeps you wanting more. Nothing hits quite like the hype for a new entry in a Nintendo series you love that looks like it could be blast to play.
Only that's not true, there's a lot of indie and third party stuff on Switch that's just as good as the types of games Nintendo releases. This is N64 Yamauchi era propaganda that too many still have in their heads.
Just go down the list. Yes, Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey and Tear of the Kingdom are at the very top but after them you have lots of third party titles right around what Nintendo's releasing. Yes every gen the very top Nintendo games like Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy, Breath of the Wild get the best reviews, but those titles are very rare even by Nintendo standards. Outside of the very top 1-3 Nintendo games each gen, the best third party games are easily competing with everything else.
Only it can be true. I mean, first that's just, like, my opinion, man. And second, it depends on what you play. I agree there are a lot of great indie and third party titles. That's why I mentioned:
For me, Nintendo's only had a small number of original games for Switch that were really great. Most others have been sort of average. Surprisingly, it has been the third party stuff that's been more unique to me. Having stuck in the Nintendo ecosphere for decades, having ports of all sorts of things like Katamari Damacy, Lumines, Grim Fandango, and Batman: Arkham Asylum that I've always wanted to try out has been great. It's those games that have been getting me to keep playing my Switch more these days. Indie stuff like Hollow Knight, Untitled Goose Game and even Suika Game have provided me with new engaging experiences to keep me invested in my Switch.
There's a lot more stuff that could be mentioned as worth seeking out. However, when I said "Still, a lot of Indie stuff can be rather short and fleeting and third party stuff can lack that Nintendo polish and magic that keeps you wanting more. Nothing hits quite like the hype for a new entry in a Nintendo series you love that looks like it could be blast to play.", I'm thinking of titles in my head like Cruis'n Blast, A Case of Distrust, Murder by Numbers, Figment, Yono and the Celestial Elephants, or Yooka-Laylee. Heck, I'll throw Gris and Untitled Goose Game in that pile. I really liked Goose Game but wished it had been longer and it could be a bit rough in getting things to work as you wanted.
Linking the top rated games on Metacritic is just cherry picking the best and ignoring all the other third party and indie games below that aren't as well rated. Hence my comment that a lot (not ALL) indie and third party games can seem short or unpolished. I'm not just playing the cherry picked best stuff only. I'd also add that many of the games at the top of the Metacritic list are from games ported from early systems and not Switch console or current Switch-era titles. Like if Ocarina of Time 3DS were to get a $15 port on Switch (and OoT wasn't available on the N64 app) then it would probably get 9/10s just on the basis of it being OoT and having slightly better graphics than the N64 while reasonably priced. UnderTale, Portal, Persona 5, Ori and the Blind Forest, Bastion, and Nier: Automata. These are all games that have had a large reputation as top games in the industry or significant in someway but a lot of them have been available for years and on plenty of other consoles before Switch.
It's like pointing to Mass Effect 3 with the Wii U launch and saying the Wii U has good third party games for its launch because Mass Effect 3 is well reviewed on MetaCritic while ignoring that it had been out for some time on XBOX 360 and PS3. (And further ignoring that those systems were getting the Mass Effect Trilogy of all three games being released for them around that time while Nintendo was only getting the third game yet had never had the first two ever released on their consoles before.) Sure, it's great to have the option if you've never played these games before or like the portability aspect but as someone already complaining about Nintendo's habit of porting I'm gonna stick with my conviction and also complain about old third party ports having to carry the Switch too. ;)
For me, stuff like Celeste, Hades, Sea of Stars, Dragon Quest XI, or Unicorn Overlord are bigger contributors to making the Switch library more unique or helping mold the system's identity. Even with the games going to the other consoles, they've usually sold better on Switch or were released first and then later ported to the others after sometime making them more associated with Switch in gamer's minds. These are games that aren't just going by reputation but broke through while being new and against more competition. It could also be argued that it proves the point that Nintendo's output has seemed more average this gen and all this Wii U porting has made them seem less creative when compared to what some of these top third party games are delivering.
I will also provide the caveat that having third party games put out software that is as good, better or worth playing over a lot of Nintendo's software isn't a bad thing. I'm certainly not hurting when it comes to finding a game to play on Switch. Such strong third party support is absolutely a good thing for seeing a console succeed and, as a Nintendo fan, it's great to see how high a Nintendo system can climb with such support. It means Nintendo will still be around for sometime doing consoles their way. It's fantastic to see support that isn't low-effort copycat attempts like the Wii years. Yet, if the Switch had been like that with third parties or like the Wii U support level then I do question just how much any of us would have liked this system based on Nintendo's output. You might be feeling the same way Dinar87 feels.
It will probably always be hard to hit that balance but I feel the DS came close to that ideal of having both great Nintendo software and strong and unique third party titles. Switch has been unusual with the third party side seemingly a bigger draw yet Nintendo's posting all kinds of huge software profits despite this. Oddly, the system I have most fondness for besides the GameCube at this point is the 3DS and it is the rare system in which I have more Nintendo developed titles than third party. Even with GameCube, I have a bit more third party titles than Nintendo in my collection. That's why Nintendo's output is a big deal to me and why Switch has felt lackluster at times. Their software is what has kept me playing games for three decades now. It's why I still get hyped for a Nintendo Direct. I'm hoping to be wowed and excited by them all over again. They can keep kindling my gaming enthusiasm and keep me involved with this entertainment. They've been consistent and able to survive this long. I've been burned by third parties running franchises into the ground (Guitar Hero) or not releasing their sequels on Nintendo systems or getting shutdown. So, yeah, I'm always going to be more interested in Nintendo's output on their systems over third parties and perhaps judge their systems based on their software despite there being strong titles from third parties worth playing. Right or wrong, fair or not, Nintendo is my main focus in this industry and my judgement on whether it was a good year or not for a console is largely based on what they released for it because it's likely a large chunk of what I'll actually be buying and playing (at some point).
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on March 29, 2024, 12:25:42 PM
It sounds like you have very particular tastes in games, and while Nintendo satisfies your proclivities for some, you don't always feel that your tastes are satisfied on a yearly basis.
No platform is wholly represented by its first-party releases, though it might have seemed as such during the N64 and GCN years. The Switch has had an incredibly healthy third party and indie scene, with many games filling the void left by your Fire Emblems and Pokemons and Metroids and whatever. And we're not just talking about old ports to new systems, either.
Asking for recommendations might result in some hidden gems that you may have overlooked.
That is true, I have specific tastes in games generally; mainly JRPGs and Metroidvanias. Occasionally some FPSs and Platformers.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on March 29, 2024, 12:38:13 PM
My wall of text aside, one thing I'd like to know from Dinar87 is what are the games/series from Nintendo that you are a fan of and that you want to see new entries for to get hyped? Are there some series you've never played or tried? Are there some you've tried but just don't care for?
Ok so...
-Metroid Prime 4 obviously -A new 3d mario like 64, Sunshine and Odyssey. Cautious about open world 3d mario if the rumors are true. -A new 2d Metroid -new Fire emblem in the style of Echoes and Three Houses, not Engage -new F ZERO -Pikmin 5 -Xenoblade Chronicles 4 -A brand new Paper Mario in the style of TTYD, but actually runs at 60fps like the original TTYD did. Minor nitpick but I grew up with the gamecube and it's wild that to this day its games still run the best frame rate wise out of all modern nintendo consoles. -New Smash, but have a bigger story mode like brawl again. Also generally have lots of unlockables and single player content.
As for non-nintendo games/backlog games
-Sonic frontiers -Sonic X Shadow generations -Persona 3 Reload -Persona 4 Golden -Persona 6 -Metaphor Re Fantazio -Tekken 8
Most wanted sequels of all time...
-Pizza Tower 2 -Sonic Adventure 3 (let's just pretend 06 never happened) -Fire Emblem Path of Radiance & Radiant Dawn sequel. -Bloodstained Ritual of the Night 2 -Metroid Fusion remake (more of a horror game than the original, similar to Alien Isolation but 2d)
What about you?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on March 29, 2024, 12:43:53 PM
You really have to look beyond Nintendo published games or you'll never be happy since it's impossible for Nintendo to constantly release certain types of games every single year.
You mention 2018, 2020 and 2021 as dry years when in reality they were anything but.
2018 had 177 games that received positive reviews.
Plus two of the highest reviewed games are Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown and Unicorn Overlord. The new Prince of Persia is a Metroid style game and Unicorn Overlord is a Strategy RPG, the same genre Fire Emblem is in. That's 2 highly reviewed games that should be appealing directly to you, but you seem to be ignoring them because they're not from Nintendo.
Seriously, this is one of the reason why I've grown distant from many of the hardcore Nintendo fans online. The Switch has been home to an insane amount of high quality games that just get completely ignored by the kind of people said games are literally being made for. Especially in recent years where there's suddenly been all this Gamecube nostalgia and Nintendo fans declaring the Gamecube the greatest system ever made and how the Gamecube era was the best time, when it's like, are you fucking kidding me.
The Gamecube had 187 games that received positives reviews its entire lifespan. In comparison, the Switch in just 2018 alone had 177 positive reviewed games and 2018 was supposed to be such a terrible year with nothing to play. :rolleyes:
Never before has a Nintendo system offered the variety and gameplay experiences that the Switch has and yet some people are acting like we're in the final days of the Wii all over again. The Wii in 2011 and 2012 COMBINED had only 19 games with positive reviews
The Switch has literally had more good games released for it in less then 3 months of this year alone, then the Wii had it's entire last 2 years combined.
Still, a lot of Indie stuff can be rather short and fleeting and third party stuff can lack that Nintendo polish and magic that keeps you wanting more. Nothing hits quite like the hype for a new entry in a Nintendo series you love that looks like it could be blast to play.
Only that's not true, there's a lot of indie and third party stuff on Switch that's just as good as the types of games Nintendo releases. This is N64 Yamauchi era propaganda that too many still have in their heads.
Just go down the list. Yes, Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey and Tear of the Kingdom are at the very top but after them you have lots of third party titles right around what Nintendo's releasing. Yes every gen the very top Nintendo games like Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Mario Galaxy, Breath of the Wild get the best reviews, but those titles are very rare even by Nintendo standards. Outside of the very top 1-3 Nintendo games each gen, the best third party games are easily competing with everything else.
99% of those great games were third party, and I'm already aware of most of them.
I'm not interested in any ubisoft games, especially after what they did to poor rayman. Prince of persia also doesn't seem that interesting to me? A desert arabic environment doesn't seem as cool as a biologic space station or a haunted castle. The art style also looks too cartoon-y.
Unicorn overlord, I will get into if they announce a sequel and promise the series is worth investing in. I don't just want good games, I want series to be excited for and have games to look forward to.
Quality over quantity for the gamecube IMO. Pokemon Colosseum and XD gale of darkness are the best pokemon games and put the likes of scarlet and violet to shame. Paper Mario TTYD is the best one in that series too. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 both on the gamecube were amazing. Metroid Prime 1 and 2. Pikmin 1 and 2. Luigi's mansion 1 was actually creepy unlike the sequels.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: M.K.Ultra on March 29, 2024, 01:05:55 PM
I remember getting a little bored in the Wii U days and I think I was just buying and playing the big first party releases. Then I started trying out third party games, replaying games, buying other nintendo systems (3DS), and eventually buying non-nintendo consoles. Now I have way too much to play (link to backloggery is in my signature) and even if there were no new games forever I would have enough to play. I am guessing that some of these options won't float with others as buying other systems takes extra money, so my advice would be to replay some older games. I get so much enjoyment out of replays either going for 100% completion, trying a harder difficulty, using different settings, or going for a speedrun. There was a great quote from Miyamoto about how games have become these consumables that folks just try once and then discarded but like a great book or movie, they can sometime not be fully enjoyed until they are experienced repeatedly. For Switch in particular I have put 50 hours into Mega Man 11 which can be beat in just an hour.
Another option is to get hooked on a game that never ends like Splatoon. I sometimes feel like I could just play Splatoon and nothing else and be happy. Of course there are a ton of great multiplayer games on switch that offer such extended replayability because of the online multiplayer. Some other great ones on Switch include the Mario Sports games and Mario Maker 2.
Then of course you can always come to the darkside and start playing Sony software. Some of my favorite games from last gen were never released on Nintendo consoles.
TLDR: replay an older game you enjoyed or try out a multiplayer game.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on March 30, 2024, 01:44:09 AM
Then of course you can always come to the darkside and start playing Sony software. Some of my favorite games from last gen were never released on Nintendo consoles.
Quality over quantity for the gamecube IMO. Pokemon Colosseum and XD gale of darkness are the best pokemon games and put the likes of scarlet and violet to shame. Paper Mario TTYD is the best one in that series too. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 both on the gamecube were amazing. Metroid Prime 1 and 2. Pikmin 1 and 2. Luigi's mansion 1 was actually creepy unlike the sequels.
And there it is. The same point I was making in my earlier post. 20 years on and a lot of fans now see the GameCube had a lot of significant entries and high points for quite a few of Nintendo's franchises. It's like a film franchise. For instance, James Bond. There are certain movies that are considered the best, the worst and others that are good and ok yet even some of those entries can be a person's favorite for whatever reason. When looking at series like Metroid or Paper Mario or Smash Bros (or, heck, Sonic too, as mentioned by me and Dinar87), software released on the GameCube for various Nintendo franchises often ranks on the high side or top of the Best Games list for those franchises.
And to add a little bit more context to something and my perspective:
Especially in recent years where there's suddenly been all this Gamecube nostalgia and Nintendo fans declaring the Gamecube the greatest system ever made and how the Gamecube era was the best time, when it's like, are you fucking kidding me.
Recent years? The GameCube nostalgia was already happening after a couple of the Wii years. I know. I've been here and I've been part of it! ;) ;D
I've mentioned it before but I'll bring it up again. During the N64 years, I was falling out of gaming love. First, it took a long time before I even got an N64. It was basically around the time DK64 came out. There was some stuff that I liked to play or enjoy but I was finding myself interested in other things. My brother played a lot more N64 than me. He'd rent games and I wouldn't even bother to play them once unlike all the years with our Super Nintendo. I can think of quite a few games in which I'd check in on him and watch him play a little bit of something and then go off and pursue other hobbies. Years later, I found myself wanting to track down and try some of that software that I missed out. When the GameCube was released, we ended up getting it early compared to the N64. Feburary 2002. The GameCube really reignited my love of gaming. I loved the controller way more than the N64 one and the level of graphics and what game design had learned from going into 3D just seemed so much more refined at that time. It took awhile to acquire software for it but I would replay a lot of the games I had for it over and over because I just enjoyed them. You can say that it might also be that I had more free time to play games on the GameCube as it was during that time I would graduate high school and begin working but I'm not sure how true that it is. I had a lot of time also while growing up to play SNES and N64 but GameCube software just spoke to me more.
It was that passion for GameCube stuff that led me to PlanetGameCube and posting on these forums. I remember back then how the community was despairing at Nintendo's shrinking market share. How Sony had the lion's share of 3rd party support and XBox was making waves with Halo and online multiplayer while Nintendo was choosing to sit out online for the Cube. How every decision Nintendo made was being scrutinized and if they could ever reclaim the market. I do think a big part of that is because of the passion a lot of us GameCube users felt from feeling that the actual product, the software and the hardware, were really great. It was the idea that if people would get past the "kiddy" label or the "purple lunchbox" dismissal then they would find that there was terrific software on it that was top class compared to what the other companies had. I mean, take away Halo and what other software are people reminiscing about for the original XBox? Most of it is practically forgotten while much more GameCube software, both third party and Nintendo, have withstood the time.
I'll also say that the GameCube is the system in which I've easily played the most multiplayer gaming on. Perhaps that's a factor in my continued love for it. There's definitely some added appeal when you can play software in-person with friends but that was also what Nintendo was focused more on. In-person multiplayer over online multiplayer and a lot of titles were and still are great for that.
Even with the Nintendo criticism on these forums, there was still a lot of excitement over what the next games in a series could be like for a Nintendo franchise and also a lot praise for software that was being released for the Cube. People were often quite happy with what they were playing and talking about it here. Despite the negativity people might feel about Nintendo's future, I was very happy with pretty much everything I was playing for the system at the time even janky stuff like Sonic Adventure 2 or Sonic Heroes. Maybe I was less cynical or less experienced with gaming so it made a difference with things still seeming new and fresh. I'm not sure. Yet, it feels like a lost time in game development when Sony and MS went HD and suddenly everything had to be a huge software seller to afford the development of a title and the market changed in how it made and released games.
When the Wii came out, I found myself disappointed somewhat with Nintendo's software for it and despite Nintendo's goal of trying to win back lapsed gamers, it actually made me a lapsed gamer as I just wasn't liking the system as I did the GameCube and my gaming time went very low and almost non-existent for a few years. At least for console gaming. DS was still keeping me a bit more active. The next time I felt like I had during the Cube year was actually with the 3DS and its early years. It got me reignited again and I really enjoyed a lot of the early software on it. The design of games and their length somewhat reminded me of games developed during the time of the Cube and PS2. Now, I find it comes in waves. If I play something really great like BotW or Hollow Knight then that can get me excited about gaming again and I'll start playing a bunch of other software. Yet, since a lot of other software can be middling then that enthusiasm can wane.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I've found that Nintendo Directs can sometimes act as a way of reigniting that enthusiasm. Just from watching a trailer of a game that might be a favorite entry of mine or looks like a sure winner, that can get me going to get back at playing games as I wait for that title to release. When that isn't there, which has been the case for over half a year then I feel the boredom that Dinar87 mentions. My gaming time has been very low these past six months. There was a bit of time in mid-February when I wanted to get back to gaming and finish up some titles I'd been working on and start up some new stuff and was playing my Switch a bit more regularly but that enthusiasm soon faded away. It's this vibe that there is nothing pressing to play right now. I'm not missing out on anything. There's nothing announced that's coming out soon where I feel I should catch up on a past title. With all the retro games I seem to be playing on Switch like N64 games or ports like Final Fantasy or Ori and the Blind Forest, it just seems like I can get to those whenever. I've waited this long to play them, they can wait some more before I get to them. Meanwhile, there can be new movies or TV Shows or books that I want to see now and don't want to be spoiled on or don't want to fall behind on. So, these things end up winning my time because the current offerings, particularly from Nintendo, don't seem as fresh or exciting.
There was a great quote from Miyamoto about how games have become these consumables that folks just try once and then discarded but like a great book or movie, they can sometime not be fully enjoyed until they are experienced repeatedly.
TLDR: replay an older game you enjoyed or try out a multiplayer game.
On the subject of time, there are a lot of games I'd like to replay and I have been returning to things slowly like stuff on the Switch apps or in my personal gaming collection. The problem is that I often feel guilty about doing so because there's so many games I've acquired that I've yet to play so why am I now returning and spending more time on something I've already played and finished. Usually, though, replaying a game doesn't take as long as the first time as you know more what to do and how to play it but it also makes me more aware of past games that do things which can waste a player's time which is why I love the save state or rewind feature with the Switch app titles to help speed a replay along. Sometimes I wonder why I'm buying new stuff if I just want to replay the games I already have. Gamers - We're Never Satisfied!
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 30, 2024, 01:50:26 AM
The GameCube nostalgia hits especially hard because it's in the sweet spot in terms of age and most of its library hasn't been rereleased, so in most cases it's purely going on memory. Sunshine was briefly available on Switch, and the Pikmin games came out last year, but besides those and the upcoming Thousand Year Door remake it's not easy to (legally) play a lot of that console's library on anything current.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on March 30, 2024, 03:02:34 AM
And another thing. This is sort of hearsay as I've done no real research on it but I had read a comment from an old poster that used to frequent this site (Professional666 or NinGurl69 *huggles* if you prefer) that "the gap between ps4/nsw is smaller than ps2/gcn." That surprised me as we often think of PS2/GC being comparable around that time as it was afterwards when PS3 and XBox 360 went HD while Wii stayed SD that people associate a big difference in power between the competition and Nintendo. I think that extra power for the GameCube might be another reason why it gets more fondly remembered for that era.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 30, 2024, 09:23:50 AM
I think that extra power for the GameCube might be another reason why it gets more fondly remembered for that era.
It's the entire reason. Most people get hung up on the fact that the Gamecube was comparable to the competitors while Nintendo has been a generation behind since. But completely ignored Nintendo's decision to use mini Disc instead of the standard DVD's like Sony/Microsoft combined with the systems lackluster sales made many third parties completely ignore the system because it wasn't worth the hassle.
The Switch on the other hand despite being a generation behind, was designed to handle the various game engines that most developers were using, so they could scale their games to run on the Switch much easier. So even before the Switch gained the massive sales it did, many third parties where able to have games ready for the system even if they didn't have much faith in it because it was easier to port games for it then they could back in the Gamecube era. And then when the Switch gained the massive sales it did, we started seeing ports of some of the more popular titles from the PS4 era because the hardware once again allowed for such a thing.
This is why when I've seen comments from some Gamecube fans saying the Gamecube was the last Nintendo system to have good third party support I have to roll my eyes so hard they literally fall out of my head. The Gamecube was still Nintendo designing hardware for their own developers without a thought to third parties. The Switch on the other hand was the first Nintendo system actually designed with third party support in mind and as a result, has by far the best third party support in Nintendo history.
I don't mind people saying the Gamecube is their favorite Nintendo system, but I do mind when they make stuff up. Saying the Gamecube had better third party support then the Switch is just factually incorrect, when the actual data shows the complete opposite.
Oh and Gamecube fans are complete fucking hypocrite when you praise games like Luigi's Mansion 1, Wind Waker, Paper Mario TTYD, but then turn your nose at the recently released Princess Peach Showtime. Quite a few of these highly praised Gamecube titles were incredible easy game, and yet the same people we now praise these games, say they have no interest in the recent Princess Peach Showtime because it looks too easy. Give me a fucking break.
Seriously, this is why I have no respect for opinions like this. This are the very definition of peak nostalgia blinding people. Seriously, if Princess Peach Showtime was released on the Gamecube 20 years ago, the same people who refuse to play it now because it's an easy looking game, would be praising it as a masterpiece like they do to many of these extremely easy Gamecube era games.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: broodwars on March 30, 2024, 10:08:48 PM
The Switch is an odd system for me. I don't actively hate it like I did the Wii & Wii U, and I have a decently-sized library of exclusives on my shelf for it...but it's not a system I ever want to actually play. Part of it's the controller. If the GamePad was so ridiculously huge it was annoying to us, the Joycons feel like the exact opposite: they're so ridiculously small and the buttons feel so cheap to press that I never want to use them. I have a 3rd party controller that's reasonably sized, but the thing has no rumble capability and it just devours batteries.
The Switch's technical drawbacks have been a severe problem for me. I'm not a graphics snob by any means, but watching even cheap 1st party efforts like Princess Peach (or at least the demo) clearly struggle to even hit 30 FPS makes playing Switch games so much less inviting than my PS5 library. It's also really hard to get used to long load times again. About a month ago, I took advantage of an eShop sale to scoop up that Portal 1 & 2 collection for < $5, and I had a decent time replaying those games for the first time in a long time...but every time the games had to pause for lengthy load times every few minutes as I cleared test chambers, it was hard to not feel disheartened. Hell, part of the reason I bailed on Fire Emblem 3 Houses was just how extraordinarily poorly it ran (the other big reason being how repetitive it was).
The Switch is an enigma for me. I've enjoyed plenty of games on the thing, but as someone who doesn't enjoy the portal game experience, it's really hard to argue it should get the gaming time when my PS5 is right there.
When Nintendo puts out their next console, the big thing I'd like them to focus on is performance, because games on the Switch have run poorly pretty much since launch.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on March 31, 2024, 10:41:46 AM
Maybe it’s just me, but industry trends are so depressing and Nintendo’s technical issues on the Switch are so baffling that I find myself defaulting to indie titles instead. It’s why my library has ballooned (well, many review copies, too) and honestly so much more enjoyable. Not every game needs to be a 60-70 dollar 500-hour nightmare with bad industry practices baked in, and indie releases usually put some degree of effort into optimizing for platforms in the hopes of making a good impression.
It’s likely why I’m not qualified to participate in this discussion, but also why I find these takes on the Switch so baffling. I mean, yes, the hardware construction/design and overall UI is embarrassing and it will take some considered effort on Nintendo’s part to convince me of an upgrade if they’re going to use the same design philosophy as the Switch, but aside from the toppest of tiers in Nintendo’s library (and not even that sometimes), I’ve found the system to be best for portable, reasonably-sized games.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 01, 2024, 12:19:51 PM
I remember getting a little bored in the Wii U days and I think I was just buying and playing the big first party releases. Then I started trying out third party games, replaying games, buying other nintendo systems (3DS), and eventually buying non-nintendo consoles. Now I have way too much to play (link to backloggery is in my signature) and even if there were no new games forever I would have enough to play. I am guessing that some of these options won't float with others as buying other systems takes extra money, so my advice would be to replay some older games. I get so much enjoyment out of replays either going for 100% completion, trying a harder difficulty, using different settings, or going for a speedrun. There was a great quote from Miyamoto about how games have become these consumables that folks just try once and then discarded but like a great book or movie, they can sometime not be fully enjoyed until they are experienced repeatedly. For Switch in particular I have put 50 hours into Mega Man 11 which can be beat in just an hour.
Another option is to get hooked on a game that never ends like Splatoon. I sometimes feel like I could just play Splatoon and nothing else and be happy. Of course there are a ton of great multiplayer games on switch that offer such extended replayability because of the online multiplayer. Some other great ones on Switch include the Mario Sports games and Mario Maker 2.
Then of course you can always come to the darkside and start playing Sony software. Some of my favorite games from last gen were never released on Nintendo consoles.
TLDR: replay an older game you enjoyed or try out a multiplayer game.
I used to be a huge sony fan as well as nintendo, before the ps4 era when suddenly every game had to be a "cinematic masterpiece" like the last of us. Series like ratchet and clank lost their edgy humor. Jack and daxter, sly cooper, etc.. all dead.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 01, 2024, 12:24:30 PM
Then of course you can always come to the darkside and start playing Sony software. Some of my favorite games from last gen were never released on Nintendo consoles.
Quality over quantity for the gamecube IMO. Pokemon Colosseum and XD gale of darkness are the best pokemon games and put the likes of scarlet and violet to shame. Paper Mario TTYD is the best one in that series too. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 both on the gamecube were amazing. Metroid Prime 1 and 2. Pikmin 1 and 2. Luigi's mansion 1 was actually creepy unlike the sequels.
And there it is. The same point I was making in my earlier post. 20 years on and a lot of fans now see the GameCube had a lot of significant entries and high points for quite a few of Nintendo's franchises. It's like a film franchise. For instance, James Bond. There are certain movies that are considered the best, the worst and others that are good and ok yet even some of those entries can be a person's favorite for whatever reason. When looking at series like Metroid or Paper Mario or Smash Bros (or, heck, Sonic too, as mentioned by me and Dinar87), software released on the GameCube for various Nintendo franchises often ranks on the high side or top of the Best Games list for those franchises.
And to add a little bit more context to something and my perspective:
Especially in recent years where there's suddenly been all this Gamecube nostalgia and Nintendo fans declaring the Gamecube the greatest system ever made and how the Gamecube era was the best time, when it's like, are you fucking kidding me.
Recent years? The GameCube nostalgia was already happening after a couple of the Wii years. I know. I've been here and I've been part of it! ;) ;D
I've mentioned it before but I'll bring it up again. During the N64 years, I was falling out of gaming love. First, it took a long time before I even got an N64. It was basically around the time DK64 came out. There was some stuff that I liked to play or enjoy but I was finding myself interested in other things. My brother played a lot more N64 than me. He'd rent games and I wouldn't even bother to play them once unlike all the years with our Super Nintendo. I can think of quite a few games in which I'd check in on him and watch him play a little bit of something and then go off and pursue other hobbies. Years later, I found myself wanting to track down and try some of that software that I missed out. When the GameCube was released, we ended up getting it early compared to the N64. Feburary 2002. The GameCube really reignited my love of gaming. I loved the controller way more than the N64 one and the level of graphics and what game design had learned from going into 3D just seemed so much more refined at that time. It took awhile to acquire software for it but I would replay a lot of the games I had for it over and over because I just enjoyed them. You can say that it might also be that I had more free time to play games on the GameCube as it was during that time I would graduate high school and begin working but I'm not sure how true that it is. I had a lot of time also while growing up to play SNES and N64 but GameCube software just spoke to me more.
It was that passion for GameCube stuff that led me to PlanetGameCube and posting on these forums. I remember back then how the community was despairing at Nintendo's shrinking market share. How Sony had the lion's share of 3rd party support and XBox was making waves with Halo and online multiplayer while Nintendo was choosing to sit out online for the Cube. How every decision Nintendo made was being scrutinized and if they could ever reclaim the market. I do think a big part of that is because of the passion a lot of us GameCube users felt from feeling that the actual product, the software and the hardware, were really great. It was the idea that if people would get past the "kiddy" label or the "purple lunchbox" dismissal then they would find that there was terrific software on it that was top class compared to what the other companies had. I mean, take away Halo and what other software are people reminiscing about for the original XBox? Most of it is practically forgotten while much more GameCube software, both third party and Nintendo, have withstood the time.
I'll also say that the GameCube is the system in which I've easily played the most multiplayer gaming on. Perhaps that's a factor in my continued love for it. There's definitely some added appeal when you can play software in-person with friends but that was also what Nintendo was focused more on. In-person multiplayer over online multiplayer and a lot of titles were and still are great for that.
Even with the Nintendo criticism on these forums, there was still a lot of excitement over what the next games in a series could be like for a Nintendo franchise and also a lot praise for software that was being released for the Cube. People were often quite happy with what they were playing and talking about it here. Despite the negativity people might feel about Nintendo's future, I was very happy with pretty much everything I was playing for the system at the time even janky stuff like Sonic Adventure 2 or Sonic Heroes. Maybe I was less cynical or less experienced with gaming so it made a difference with things still seeming new and fresh. I'm not sure. Yet, it feels like a lost time in game development when Sony and MS went HD and suddenly everything had to be a huge software seller to afford the development of a title and the market changed in how it made and released games.
When the Wii came out, I found myself disappointed somewhat with Nintendo's software for it and despite Nintendo's goal of trying to win back lapsed gamers, it actually made me a lapsed gamer as I just wasn't liking the system as I did the GameCube and my gaming time went very low and almost non-existent for a few years. At least for console gaming. DS was still keeping me a bit more active. The next time I felt like I had during the Cube year was actually with the 3DS and its early years. It got me reignited again and I really enjoyed a lot of the early software on it. The design of games and their length somewhat reminded me of games developed during the time of the Cube and PS2. Now, I find it comes in waves. If I play something really great like BotW or Hollow Knight then that can get me excited about gaming again and I'll start playing a bunch of other software. Yet, since a lot of other software can be middling then that enthusiasm can wane.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I've found that Nintendo Directs can sometimes act as a way of reigniting that enthusiasm. Just from watching a trailer of a game that might be a favorite entry of mine or looks like a sure winner, that can get me going to get back at playing games as I wait for that title to release. When that isn't there, which has been the case for over half a year then I feel the boredom that Dinar87 mentions. My gaming time has been very low these past six months. There was a bit of time in mid-February when I wanted to get back to gaming and finish up some titles I'd been working on and start up some new stuff and was playing my Switch a bit more regularly but that enthusiasm soon faded away. It's this vibe that there is nothing pressing to play right now. I'm not missing out on anything. There's nothing announced that's coming out soon where I feel I should catch up on a past title. With all the retro games I seem to be playing on Switch like N64 games or ports like Final Fantasy or Ori and the Blind Forest, it just seems like I can get to those whenever. I've waited this long to play them, they can wait some more before I get to them. Meanwhile, there can be new movies or TV Shows or books that I want to see now and don't want to be spoiled on or don't want to fall behind on. So, these things end up winning my time because the current offerings, particularly from Nintendo, don't seem as fresh or exciting.
There was a great quote from Miyamoto about how games have become these consumables that folks just try once and then discarded but like a great book or movie, they can sometime not be fully enjoyed until they are experienced repeatedly.
TLDR: replay an older game you enjoyed or try out a multiplayer game.
On the subject of time, there are a lot of games I'd like to replay and I have been returning to things slowly like stuff on the Switch apps or in my personal gaming collection. The problem is that I often feel guilty about doing so because there's so many games I've acquired that I've yet to play so why am I now returning and spending more time on something I've already played and finished. Usually, though, replaying a game doesn't take as long as the first time as you know more what to do and how to play it but it also makes me more aware of past games that do things which can waste a player's time which is why I love the save state or rewind feature with the Switch app titles to help speed a replay along. Sometimes I wonder why I'm buying new stuff if I just want to replay the games I already have. Gamers - We're Never Satisfied!
Damn that sounded like a good time to be a passionate fan. Sure nintendo wasn't as popular but the games were all extremely fun. I wish I'd grown up with forums instead of youtube. Modern youtube is an insult to what the site used to be.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 01, 2024, 12:29:49 PM
I think that extra power for the GameCube might be another reason why it gets more fondly remembered for that era.
It's the entire reason. Most people get hung up on the fact that the Gamecube was comparable to the competitors while Nintendo has been a generation behind since. But completely ignored Nintendo's decision to use mini Disc instead of the standard DVD's like Sony/Microsoft combined with the systems lackluster sales made many third parties completely ignore the system because it wasn't worth the hassle.
The Switch on the other hand despite being a generation behind, was designed to handle the various game engines that most developers were using, so they could scale their games to run on the Switch much easier. So even before the Switch gained the massive sales it did, many third parties where able to have games ready for the system even if they didn't have much faith in it because it was easier to port games for it then they could back in the Gamecube era. And then when the Switch gained the massive sales it did, we started seeing ports of some of the more popular titles from the PS4 era because the hardware once again allowed for such a thing.
This is why when I've seen comments from some Gamecube fans saying the Gamecube was the last Nintendo system to have good third party support I have to roll my eyes so hard they literally fall out of my head. The Gamecube was still Nintendo designing hardware for their own developers without a thought to third parties. The Switch on the other hand was the first Nintendo system actually designed with third party support in mind and as a result, has by far the best third party support in Nintendo history.
I don't mind people saying the Gamecube is their favorite Nintendo system, but I do mind when they make stuff up. Saying the Gamecube had better third party support then the Switch is just factually incorrect, when the actual data shows the complete opposite.
Oh and Gamecube fans are complete fucking hypocrite when you praise games like Luigi's Mansion 1, Wind Waker, Paper Mario TTYD, but then turn your nose at the recently released Princess Peach Showtime. Quite a few of these highly praised Gamecube titles were incredible easy game, and yet the same people we now praise these games, say they have no interest in the recent Princess Peach Showtime because it looks too easy. Give me a fucking break.
Seriously, this is why I have no respect for opinions like this. This are the very definition of peak nostalgia blinding people. Seriously, if Princess Peach Showtime was released on the Gamecube 20 years ago, the same people who refuse to play it now because it's an easy looking game, would be praising it as a masterpiece like they do to many of these extremely easy Gamecube era games.
Nintendo definitely got deservedly punished with the mini discs and cartridges, fucking over developers in an evil attempt to stop piracy (which is morally correct). But the games themselves were amazing.
You might be right about nostalgia, but even then the princess peach game would probably run better back then in 60fps as opposed to 30. Hell the REMAKE of TTYD seems to be running at 30fps when the 20+ year old original ran better.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: ThePerm on April 05, 2024, 03:54:34 PM
I never ended up buying a Switch because I was waiting for whatever upgrade was going to come out. It would have been the OLED Switch, but that came out so late I thought "what was the point?" So, I never bought that either. I pretty much skipped this generation. I got gifted a ps4 in 2017 and just bought up some of the main games there.
At the same time. I have a Wii U. So, it isn't like I missed out on 1/4 of the games that came out for Switch.
It was a weird generation because I turned my room into a Mario room with blue turquoise sky walls and all and played ps4 the whole time. My office room I turned into horror themed.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: M.K.Ultra on April 06, 2024, 11:31:29 AM
I ended up upgrading to an OLED switch around January. I started thinking about how many games I have on Switch and figured I should have a back up console. Luckily there were still some Splatoon 3 special edition OLEDs available so I got one of those. It really is nice, especially the wired internet in the dock. My launch switch is now stored away as a back up. Then I thought the same about the Wii U so I bought a refurbished Wii U. My gamepad was a little messed up so I swapped in the better gamepad and stored the console away for safe keeping. Then riding this high of buying hardware I picked up a switch lite. Finally I bough screen protectors for all of them. I didn't really think about screen protectors before switch but now I have one on the gamepad and 3DS.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 07, 2024, 05:47:21 AM
I never ended up buying a Switch because I was waiting for whatever upgrade was going to come out. It would have been the OLED Switch, but that came out so late I thought "what was the point?" So, I never bought that either. I pretty much skipped this generation. I got gifted a ps4 in 2017 and just bought up some of the main games there.
At the same time. I have a Wii U. So, it isn't like I missed out on 1/4 of the games that came out for Switch.
It was a weird generation because I turned my room into a Mario room with blue turquoise sky walls and all and played ps4 the whole time. My office room I turned into horror themed.
If you ever get a switch I once again recommend Metroid Dread and Fire Emblem Three Houses.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 07, 2024, 05:56:47 AM
We need Metroid Prime 4 this year. A lot of people say Nintendo is saving it for crossgen but that doesn't make sense when probably the next 3d mario and other big games will also be releasing, then Prime 4 gets no attention.
Metroid Prime 3 was IIRC the first Wii game announced and apparently had good marketing at the time, yet it got destroyed by all the other more popular games releasing at that time.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on April 07, 2024, 02:48:11 PM
I don't argue that we need Metroid Prime 4, but my reasons are more selfish than anything. I think, with the approaching midway point in the year, we'll get a more tangible look at what is in store for us for the Switch's final holiday season. Whether that's more ports or MP4 as a last hurrah (similar to the Wii U era, where Nintendo seemed committed to following through with their claims of "we're making a Zelda for this console, trust us") will be up to how much pressure Nintendo feels at this point to maintain momentum for Switch or keep their most loyal customers ravenous for the Switch successor.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 08, 2024, 09:47:27 AM
I don't argue that we need Metroid Prime 4, but my reasons are more selfish than anything. I think, with the approaching midway point in the year, we'll get a more tangible look at what is in store for us for the Switch's final holiday season. Whether that's more ports or MP4 as a last hurrah (similar to the Wii U era, where Nintendo seemed committed to following through with their claims of "we're making a Zelda for this console, trust us") will be up to how much pressure Nintendo feels at this point to maintain momentum for Switch or keep their most loyal customers ravenous for the Switch successor.
Nintendo could easily give us nothing this year and still be fine. So my worry is because of this, games like metroid prime 4 (even though it's rumored to be already finished) will be made to wait longer to coincide with the launch of the next nintendo console.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on April 08, 2024, 07:23:12 PM
But if they’ll be fine, why worry?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on April 09, 2024, 06:14:43 AM
I think that extra power for the GameCube might be another reason why it gets more fondly remembered for that era.
It's the entire reason. Most people get hung up on the fact that the Gamecube was comparable to the competitors while Nintendo has been a generation behind since.
Maybe for some but I'm as a GameCube fan it took me a long time to even think of that point and only after doing some reflecting on that generation and being reminded of the performance difference in Resident Evil 4 for GameCube vs PS2.
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The Switch on the other hand despite being a generation behind, was designed to handle the various game engines that most developers were using, so they could scale their games to run on the Switch much easier. So even before the Switch gained the massive sales it did, many third parties where able to have games ready for the system even if they didn't have much faith in it because it was easier to port games for it then they could back in the Gamecube era. And then when the Switch gained the massive sales it did, we started seeing ports of some of the more popular titles from the PS4 era because the hardware once again allowed for such a thing.
This is why when I've seen comments from some Gamecube fans saying the Gamecube was the last Nintendo system to have good third party support I have to roll my eyes so hard they literally fall out of my head. The Gamecube was still Nintendo designing hardware for their own developers without a thought to third parties. The Switch on the other hand was the first Nintendo system actually designed with third party support in mind and as a result, has by far the best third party support in Nintendo history.
I would have to disagree with you a little bit on this. I think you are misremembering the Switch's first year. Switch had a small launch line-up. Third party retail titles when it launched were Just Dance 2017, Skylanders: Imagination and Super Bomberman R. Third party retail titles from launch (Mar. 3) to end of June were The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+, Has Been Heroes, Fast RMX, Puyo Puyo Tetris, Rime, Disgaea 5 Complete, Redout, and Dragon Quest Heroes 1 & 2. That doesn't seem like a lot of third parties having their games ready for the console. It wasn't until the end of 2017 that you saw bigger name third party titles like DOOM, Skyrim, WWE 2K18, L.A. Noire and even Sonic Forces. I commented on it in the past but Bethesda actually releasing games on a Nintendo system really helped change the third party narrative with Nintendo systems. I do agree that Nintendo did seem to rethink their hardware design by making a system that would be much easier for third parties to port their games to but I also think that third parties still waited awhile to see how the Switch launch turned out before deciding if they would actually bother with the system or not. Nintendo really carried the Switch in that first year and the effort was noticed. I made a thread at the time that 2017 might be Nintendo's best year ever for quality software released. Nintendo carried that momentum of Breath of the Wild and kept the Switch selling so that there was no collapse of system sales after the launch window like the Wii U and 3DS experienced.
Even during the 2017 summer with Switch selling hot, third parties were reluctant about bringing software over. Famously, Cliff Bleszinski said he didn't think he could port the game Lawbreakers to the Switch because "I think the hardest part with the Switch is the controls. Look at the game that we have right now, and we just literally by the skin of our teeth put the entire game and the control pad that the PlayStation has. That means that we could probably make it work for the Xbox One in someway, right? But if you’re looking at the Switch the base controller that’s on the unit, it doesn’t have as many buttons." You'd see comments still of developers unsure about the Switch's ability to run their games that they were putting on PS4 and XBox One or saying that maybe if enough people ask them to on Twitter or something to show there is demand then maybe they'll think about porting something.
Again, Bethesda ended a lot of those excuses but I do wonder if they would have decided against releasing stuff if Switch had slowed down in sales. But by basically showing that it was duplicating Wii level sales, that seemed to get third parties to start taking the system more seriously and you began to see a result of that in 2018. That's when third parties started showing up which is good as Nintendo had to start looking at ports and other ways to fill in their software lineup as their development teams started anew after all their 2017 stuff. They had Smash Bros. which they used to keep up the hype and excitement. Yet it may have ended up being a bit beneficial as it did allow third party software to get more of a spotlight and perhaps get better sales than it might have had it released during the system's early launch. Even though they were old, previous Final Fantasy games getting ported to a Nintendo system in 2019 was another big signal that third parties might now be viewing the Switch different from past consoles. Yet, why couldn't Square have had ports of Final Fantasy VII or FFX ready for launch? Did it really need to take them two years to figure out how to port those games? Porting games may have been easier but it took awhile for third parties to actually take the Switch seriously and do it. Nintendo was further aided in the slow growth and momentum of the PS5 and XBox series X. With third parties releasing games that also had PS4 and XBox One versions to try because of the smaller userbases and expense of development for titles on those system in their first few years, it's kept the Switch as a key piece of the market for a longer time with its large userbase and hardware that they should know pretty well by now.
(And I didn't even get into the whole waste of time that is stuff like cloud versions of games like Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2. Square still pulling crap when it comes to bringing their games to the Switch. Or ports with issues so that they still run better on consoles three generations ago like the Metal Gear Solid collection. It's crap like that which can make third party support seem better on a console like GameCube because while it was a smaller quantity at least the quality was usually pretty good. Or at least, that's how it gets remembered now thanks to forgetting the bad and remembering the good that comes with nostalgia.)
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Oh and Gamecube fans are complete fucking hypocrite when you praise games like Luigi's Mansion 1, Wind Waker, Paper Mario TTYD, but then turn your nose at the recently released Princess Peach Showtime. Quite a few of these highly praised Gamecube titles were incredible easy game, and yet the same people we now praise these games, say they have no interest in the recent Princess Peach Showtime because it looks too easy. Give me a fucking break.
Seriously, this is why I have no respect for opinions like this. This are the very definition of peak nostalgia blinding people. Seriously, if Princess Peach Showtime was released on the Gamecube 20 years ago, the same people who refuse to play it now because it's an easy looking game, would be praising it as a masterpiece like they do to many of these extremely easy Gamecube era games.
I don't know who these GameCube fans are that you keep encountering with those crap opinions. I will say that since Super Mario Wonder, Princess Peach: Showtime is the only Nintendo game that has been released or announced that I actually want to play and is the type of software that I wish they were releasing more of. I absolutely agree that it reminds me a bit of the GameCube era of trying to do something new with their IP in a sort of spinoff way like Luigi's Mansion or Wario World or Battalion Wars. It's rather annoying to me to see you speak of GameCube as having written off something like Princess Peach when I've never done that and makes it seem like you don't know what you are talking about or are just making things up when you label all such fans as one. Perhaps not your intention but it creates a disconnect for me when reading your posts with the phrasing that way.
It's Princess Peach that actually is why I agreed about having the same feeling of boredom that Dinar87 was expressing. Let's go with August 2023 as a starting point. When I think of the period from August 1, 2023 to July 31, 2024 and Nintendo developed software for the Switch that instantly appealed to me or stood out, I can only think of two titles which are Wonder and Showtime. That's a whole year in which Nintendo released just two games I'm excited to play for Switch. I had to look up to check what I might be forgetting as everything just seemed to be ports or remasters like Super Mario RPG. There was Detective Pikachu Returns and WarioWare: Move it!. Both are games I'll likely pick up when the price is right for me but they aren't big motivators to make me excited about the current state of Nintendo releases. I also wish I could just buy the Wii Another Code game that didn't get released in NA rather than both games but that's still a game that was made for Wii and not Switch. Now, if you want to say I'm being selective and if I moved back my timeline to include July 2023 which had Pikmin 4 then go ahead and shift the date so that there are now three top Switch games instead of two but I don't think it's great that a company like Nintendo can only put out about three fresh games in a year. Moreover, we still don't know how Nintendo is planning on padding out the rest of this year. If the rumours are true that the Switch 2 will be 2025 then Nintendo's could be very boring for over a year and a half. Save us, Professor Layton! I really need you now to give the Switch some life. It's not quite a Nintendo franchise but it feels like it sometimes.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on April 09, 2024, 06:21:10 AM
Nintendo definitely got deservedly punished with the mini discs and cartridges, fucking over developers in an evil attempt to stop piracy (which is morally correct). But the games themselves were amazing.
I never ended up buying a Switch because I was waiting for whatever upgrade was going to come out. It would have been the OLED Switch, but that came out so late I thought "what was the point?" So, I never bought that either. I pretty much skipped this generation. I got gifted a ps4 in 2017 and just bought up some of the main games there.
At the same time. I have a Wii U. So, it isn't like I missed out on 1/4 of the games that came out for Switch.
It was a weird generation because I turned my room into a Mario room with blue turquoise sky walls and all and played ps4 the whole time. My office room I turned into horror themed.
Honestly, with what the videogame market is like these days, part of me has started to wonder if the smart thing to do is skip a console generation. Just buy into every other generation. Because by doing that, videogame makers will be porting over all their stuff from the previous generation anyways but either upgraded for the new console or in a complete form with all the previously released DLC or something. Or with backwards compatibility you might be able to pick up games at a lower price point from that previous gen and save money that way. The trade off is that you might miss out on some multiplayer games. For instance, skipping Wii U means you'd have missed out on Splatoon 1 but you'd have had Splatoon 2 to play on Switch. Or missing out on Call of Duty multiplayer for the previous generation but having new CoD games to play on the new system you get into.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 10, 2024, 04:24:50 AM
Nintendo definitely got deservedly punished with the mini discs and cartridges, fucking over developers in an evil attempt to stop piracy (which is morally correct). But the games themselves were amazing.
Deservedly punished? Piracy is morally correct? Now I feel bad for agreeing with you about being bored with Nintendo's release schedule of late. :(
(https://i.imgur.com/rip9pgv.jpeg)
Yes, deservedly punished. Nintendo's entire reason for using mini discs for the gamecube was to stop piracy. This made development unnecessarily harder for third parties which punished nintendo by not porting their games to the console. I may love the gamecube but that was an objectively terrible decision on nintendo's part. If they'd of just used dvds like the competition I guarantee you the gamecube would've had far better third party support.
And yes, I think piracy is morally correct (unless it's indie devs) as many companies, including nintendo themselves, want you to "own nothing and be happy". That's why they won't let you access the majority of their old games, and that's why you can no longer outright buy legacy titles on the switch. Virtual console? Gone, now it's a subscription and you lose everything once you stop paying. I want to OWN my games, not rent them. Not to mention nintendo's toxic behavior when it comes to fan games and emulation, while never bothering to rerelease most of their old games.
Piracy preserves old games that companies no longer provide access for. There's even been many cases where old games are delisted from online stores either because of a new rerelease or because of licensing issues.
Nintendo makes great games, but as a company they are bad.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 10, 2024, 05:11:31 AM
That's just nonsense. It's really pathetic the way some people try to justify their entitlement like that
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 10, 2024, 07:04:05 AM
That's just nonsense. It's really pathetic the way some people try to justify their entitlement like that
Entitlement? For the record I don't mean pirating switch games or any current gen games. I mean old games nintendo refuses to be made available.
As I said with the gamecube, the mini discs decision was a bad one and nintendo made things a lot harder for third parties for no good reason. There will always be people who pirate the latest games, but they're a minority. Decisions like forcing minidiscs which had less memory than standard dvds turned away third party companies.
Unless you think being able to access old games like pokemon emerald and super mario sunshine is "entitled" in which case you're a fanboy.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Adrock on April 10, 2024, 11:37:08 AM
In the Yuzu lawsuit, Nintendo claimed Tears of the Kingdom was pirated ~1 million times. Sure, those people are the minority when talking about a game that sold ~20 million. Contextually, that’s still a significant number even if some of them wouldn’t have played the game had they not been able to steal it.
I’ll die on the emulation hill as I consider it essential while acknowledging some people use it in bad faith. Piracy is dicier. Tons of games never left Japan and/or are likely stuck on original hardware forever because they’re not popular enough to rerelease. I generally look the other way even if I, personally, try to buy loose copies. Citing games that either have been rereleased or likely will be rereleased (again) is wild to me.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on April 10, 2024, 12:25:53 PM
Emulation is justifiable. Piracy is not.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on April 10, 2024, 05:31:57 PM
Yes, deservedly punished. Nintendo's entire reason for using mini discs for the gamecube was to stop piracy. This made development unnecessarily harder for third parties which punished nintendo by not porting their games to the console. I may love the gamecube but that was an objectively terrible decision on nintendo's part. If they'd of just used dvds like the competition I guarantee you the gamecube would've had far better third party support.
I'm a third party. I've got a game I want to release on a console and I've got two choice. On one console, it would be a little simpler to format my game to work on it. On the second console, it would take a little extra effort. However, if I release it on the first console, it will be very easy for some people to pirate the game. On the second console, it will be harder for people to pirate the software. Which should I choose? I'll go with the second. Anti-piracy measure will help to ensure people actually buy the product we put the time and money into making instead of someone uploading it for free and hurting our sales.
But wait! The first console has five times the userbase size as the second console. 50 million potential customers compared to 10 million customers of the second. Since the first is a bit easier to develop for, I guess we'll prioritize that even though there may be some loss due to piracy. Whew. That was close. Can you believe we almost chose the second console for a moment? They were actually trying to help protect our sales; Can you imagine that?! What a bunch of losers! Screw them and their console! I hope it goes out of business. In fact, let's tell our friends at other third parties to also not release stuff on that second console to teach them a lesson about how we are cool if our stuff gets pirated.
Your logic is flawed, Dinar87. Mini-discs were not the deciding factor for third parties when it came to releasing stuff on GameCube. If PS2 had mini-discs to also combat piracy, third parties when it have been cool with it. They wouldn't have all flocked to Xbox because it was the only one to use DVDs in this hypothetical. It was about the userbase and potential customers. (It was also about Sony and MS throwing money at third parties to help get some exclusive games and spur development. A problem with the industry that has continued for years but that's a whole other thing.) Quit creating a false narrative or buying into one that third parties wanted to "punish" Nintendo because of anti-piracy measures.
(And, for the record, I always though mini-discs were cool. It seemed like another leap to the future. They could create a store these huge games on these small discs. Wii with DVDs seemed like a step back.)
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Adrock on April 10, 2024, 05:55:01 PM
(And, for the record, I always though mini-discs were cool. It seemed like another leap to the future. They could create a store these huge games on these small discs. Wii with DVDs seemed like a step back.)
Opting for a miniDVD based format was such an unnecessary unforced error especially in hindsight given Wii used full-sized 12 cm discs. Nintendo forced publishers to make compromises Sony and Microsoft weren’t and during a time it really couldn’t afford to be doing that stuff coming off of Nintendo 64. Some of them chose to squeeze data into one disc. I’m still salty that Skies of Arcadia Legends has worse sound fidelity than the original on Dreamcast.
On a more positive note, the disc eject button GameCube and the smooth edge of Wii U discs were both 🤌.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on April 10, 2024, 07:00:13 PM
(And, for the record, I always though mini-discs were cool. It seemed like another leap to the future. They could create a store these huge games on these small discs. Wii with DVDs seemed like a step back.)
Opting for a miniDVD based format was such an unnecessary unforced error especially in hindsight given Wii used full-sized 12 cm discs. Nintendo forced publishers to make compromises Sony and Microsoft weren’t and during a time it really couldn’t afford to be doing that stuff coming off of Nintendo 64. Some of them chose to squeeze data into one disc. I’m still salty that Skies of Arcadia Legends has worse sound fidelity than the original on Dreamcast.
On a more positive note, the disc eject button GameCube and the smooth edge of Wii U discs were both 🤌.
Perhaps normal DVD's would have made some difference instead of mini-disc. It's hard to say. (But would we have still gotten that great cube shape?) Xbox used DVDs but its not like they did phenomenally better in hardware sales or had way better third party support. Maybe Nintendo does do N64 levels of hardware with using DVDs and does get a bit more cross platform support because of it. Yet, is that really considered much more of a success compared to where PS2 would likely still have ended up?
A huge thing that helped favor the PS2 was its ability to also play movie DVDs and act as a sort of home theatre that can play games and movies as a sort of all-in-one device. That made it appealing to a lot of consumers as DVDs were coming out and replacing VHS and showing how high quality the video could look on discs compared to cassette. Why buy a DVD player and a game console for two separate costs when you could buy them together for a lower cost? Nintendo was always going to just focus on it being a gaming machine and not start trying to fight Sony in home electronics.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 11, 2024, 05:15:35 AM
In the Yuzu lawsuit, Nintendo claimed Tears of the Kingdom was pirated ~1 million times. Sure, those people are the minority when talking about a game that sold ~20 million. Contextually, that’s still a significant number even if some of them wouldn’t have played the game had they not been able to steal it.
I’ll die on the emulation hill as I consider it essential while acknowledging some people use it in bad faith. Piracy is dicier. Tons of games never left Japan and/or are likely stuck on original hardware forever because they’re not popular enough to rerelease. I generally look the other way even if I, personally, try to buy loose copies. Citing games that either have been rereleased or likely will be rereleased (again) is wild to me.
I mean I agree with you that piracy can be bad for current gen games, especially indie games. I never pirate indie games. But if it was 1 million people pirating something like virtual boy wario land? There's no harm being done because nintendo isn't even selling it.
Even then for AAA games, there is no good evidence that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. Especially because publishers rarely make demos anymore and a lot of people use piracy to demo games to see if they'll actually like them. Only steam has good refund policies afterall. It inherently relies on an assumption.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 11, 2024, 05:21:46 AM
Yes, deservedly punished. Nintendo's entire reason for using mini discs for the gamecube was to stop piracy. This made development unnecessarily harder for third parties which punished nintendo by not porting their games to the console. I may love the gamecube but that was an objectively terrible decision on nintendo's part. If they'd of just used dvds like the competition I guarantee you the gamecube would've had far better third party support.
I'm a third party. I've got a game I want to release on a console and I've got two choice. On one console, it would be a little simpler to format my game to work on it. On the second console, it would take a little extra effort. However, if I release it on the first console, it will be very easy for some people to pirate the game. On the second console, it will be harder for people to pirate the software. Which should I choose? I'll go with the second. Anti-piracy measure will help to ensure people actually buy the product we put the time and money into making instead of someone uploading it for free and hurting our sales.
But wait! The first console has five times the userbase size as the second console. 50 million potential customers compared to 10 million customers of the second. Since the first is a bit easier to develop for, I guess we'll prioritize that even though there may be some loss due to piracy. Whew. That was close. Can you believe we almost chose the second console for a moment? They were actually trying to help protect our sales; Can you imagine that?! What a bunch of losers! Screw them and their console! I hope it goes out of business. In fact, let's tell our friends at other third parties to also not release stuff on that second console to teach them a lesson about how we are cool if our stuff gets pirated.
Your logic is flawed, Dinar87. Mini-discs were not the deciding factor for third parties when it came to releasing stuff on GameCube. If PS2 had mini-discs to also combat piracy, third parties when it have been cool with it. They wouldn't have all flocked to Xbox because it was the only one to use DVDs in this hypothetical. It was about the userbase and potential customers. (It was also about Sony and MS throwing money at third parties to help get some exclusive games and spur development. A problem with the industry that has continued for years but that's a whole other thing.) Quit creating a false narrative or buying into one that third parties wanted to "punish" Nintendo because of anti-piracy measures.
(And, for the record, I always though mini-discs were cool. It seemed like another leap to the future. They could create a store these huge games on these small discs. Wii with DVDs seemed like a step back.)
That assumes piracy would significantly affect the sales, which there is no proof of such. Only claims made by the companies themselves, again with them providing no proof. You cannot prove that the pirates would of bought your game if they weren't able to pirate them. A lot of pirates also come from third world countries where they couldn't afford the latest games anyways. Game of thrones is the most pirated tv show of all time afaik. Also one of the most successful tv shows of all time. Totk has already sold over 20 million copies. The switch is heavily pirated and is about to become the best selling console of all time. But sure, piracy is definitely significant ;D
If mini discs weren't an issue, why did the gamecube barely get any third party support compared to even the xbox, which sold similarly to the gamecube? The xbox has over 300 more games than the gamecube. If there was no difference, why 300 more games?
Same with the n64 cartridges. If they weren't a big deal for third parties, then why did the ps1 sell so well? How come the n64 didn't get games like final fantasy 7? The answer is square enix tried to port final fantasy 7 to the n64 but nintendo's dumb decision to use catridges and less powerful hardware at the time made it impossible. https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20240215-27218/
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 11, 2024, 10:44:11 AM
Totk has already sold over 20 million copies. The switch is heavily pirated and is about to become the best selling console of all time. But sure, piracy is definitely significant ;D
I mean for super popular stuff like Zelda, Mario and Pokemon they can survive, but pirates don't just stop at these games. How would you feel if Metroid Prime 4 gets pirated over 1 million times? Even if not every single one of those pirating the game would buy it, for smaller franchises, just getting a few hundred thousand more sales can be what makes the difference between companies greenliting sequels or deciding it's not worth continuing this franchise.
Companies like Nintendo kind of have to do all they can to fight piracy to protect all kind of games on their systems. If it was something that became easy to do that wasn't being fought against I can guarantee you Switch software sales would be taking a much bigger hit.
That's why I always laugh when some gamers act like Nintendo is the worst company in the world for going after companies like Yuzu. I mean, Yuzu was literally encouraging people to pirate Switch games and was even making money off of said piracy. It's like seriously, if Nintendo didn't do anything it would just be encouraging others to do the same thing and before you know it, piracy is a much bigger issue that's easier for the average person to do as well.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Adrock on April 11, 2024, 12:13:57 PM
I mean I agree with you that piracy can be bad for current gen games, especially indie games. I never pirate indie games. But if it was 1 million people pirating something like virtual boy wario land? There's no harm being done because nintendo isn't even selling it.
You moved the goal post, and I’m not interested in going down that rabbit hole here. If you want to have that conversation, start a new thread or use this one (https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=69212.0) I created in 2022.
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Even then for AAA games, there is no good evidence that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. Especially because publishers rarely make demos anymore and a lot of people use piracy to demo games to see if they'll actually like them. Only steam has good refund policies afterall. It inherently relies on an assumption.
I mean for super popular stuff like Zelda, Mario and Pokemon they can survive, but pirates don't just stop at these games. How would you feel if Metroid Prime 4 gets pirated over 1 million times? Even if not every single one of those pirating the game would buy it, for smaller franchises, just getting a few hundred thousand more sales can be what makes the difference between companies greenliting sequels or deciding it's not worth continuing this franchise.
I agree with the rest of your post. Just wanted to highlight these bits.
While Nintendo’s methods may often seem draconian, no company can afford to set a weak precedent. It becomes that much harder to fight it the next time when bad faith actors push a little farther.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 15, 2024, 04:27:30 AM
Totk has already sold over 20 million copies. The switch is heavily pirated and is about to become the best selling console of all time. But sure, piracy is definitely significant ;D
I mean for super popular stuff like Zelda, Mario and Pokemon they can survive, but pirates don't just stop at these games. How would you feel if Metroid Prime 4 gets pirated over 1 million times? Even if not every single one of those pirating the game would buy it, for smaller franchises, just getting a few hundred thousand more sales can be what makes the difference between companies greenliting sequels or deciding it's not worth continuing this franchise.
Companies like Nintendo kind of have to do all they can to fight piracy to protect all kind of games on their systems. If it was something that became easy to do that wasn't being fought against I can guarantee you Switch software sales would be taking a much bigger hit.
That's why I always laugh when some gamers act like Nintendo is the worst company in the world for going after companies like Yuzu. I mean, Yuzu was literally encouraging people to pirate Switch games and was even making money off of said piracy. It's like seriously, if Nintendo didn't do anything it would just be encouraging others to do the same thing and before you know it, piracy is a much bigger issue that's easier for the average person to do as well.
If metroid prime 4 got pirated 1 million times, it would be great as said pirates would inevitably spread positive word of mouth, making the actual game sales higher than they would have been.
Your theory about ease of pirating being a potential threat is flawed as indie games almost always can be easily pirated, especially if they're on gog with no drm. But indie games haven't been negatively effected by piracy.
By fighting piracy you're also killing game preservation as the license holders prefer to manipulate the market with artificial scarcity (disney vault stuff) instead of individually selling all their legacy titles for a reasonable price (not $60), no subscription, no drm. Nintendo's virtual console used to be similar to this, but now it's a subscription so "you will own nothing and you will be happy"
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 15, 2024, 04:55:05 AM
I mean I agree with you that piracy can be bad for current gen games, especially indie games. I never pirate indie games. But if it was 1 million people pirating something like virtual boy wario land? There's no harm being done because nintendo isn't even selling it.
You moved the goal post, and I’m not interested in going down that rabbit hole here. If you want to have that conversation, start a new thread or use this one (https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=69212.0) I created in 2022.
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Even then for AAA games, there is no good evidence that 1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale. Especially because publishers rarely make demos anymore and a lot of people use piracy to demo games to see if they'll actually like them. Only steam has good refund policies afterall. It inherently relies on an assumption.
I mean for super popular stuff like Zelda, Mario and Pokemon they can survive, but pirates don't just stop at these games. How would you feel if Metroid Prime 4 gets pirated over 1 million times? Even if not every single one of those pirating the game would buy it, for smaller franchises, just getting a few hundred thousand more sales can be what makes the difference between companies greenliting sequels or deciding it's not worth continuing this franchise.
I agree with the rest of your post. Just wanted to highlight these bits.
While Nintendo’s methods may often seem draconian, no company can afford to set a weak precedent. It becomes that much harder to fight it the next time when bad faith actors push a little farther.
You know what, I take back what I said. Pirating modern games is good actually 8). AAA companies like scumbag nintendo who shut down fangames, never rerelease the majority of their old games, force you to pay for online multiplayer like the other consoles, constantly treat consumers like ****-they don't deserve any respect.
There has never been a single case of piracy hurting a games sales. Ever. I dare you to prove me wrong.
It's relevant. Before Steam piracy was far more rampant on PC, but in the eternal words of Lord Gaben- "piracy is not a pricing issue. It’s a service issue". Steam gave the consumer a good experience and a good service, and now they're one of the biggest gaming companies in the world and the number one store on PC.
Having a precedent of piracy being allowed would be an objectively good thing for consumers and even developers. If companies refuse to consistently put out demos, and refuse to allow access to their older games, piracy will find a way.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: broodwars on April 15, 2024, 10:05:45 AM
All I have to say on the matter of piracy is that companies have no right to bitch about it if they aren't making the games available to legally purchase. I would give Nintendo; Sega; etc. so much money if they remastered or even just ported GameCube games like Skies of Arcadia, Eternal Darkness, the remaining Prime games, etc. to modern platforms. I have the physical edition of that Baten Kaitos Collection on my shelf. I will give them money to let me play these games. But Nintendo did not give a **** about the GameCube's library until VERY recently. So yeah, I have no sympathy for these companies when pirates do a better job preserving gaming history than they do. We are losing SO many games from that generation, some of which probably no longer have viable source code if the companies even bothered to keep them, and that's even if those companies still exist.
Now, pirating modern games that are widely available is a different story. People should not be doing that.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Khushrenada on April 15, 2024, 12:21:58 PM
LOL! This thread...
As a passionate fan of Nintendo, I wish they'd announce and release some really cool sequels for series I love like Mario, Metroid and Fire Emblem ... which I'll then be justified to pirate because they are a greedy **** company that doesn't deserve my respect!
As a passionate fan of Nintendo, I wish they'd announce and release some really cool sequels for series I love like Mario, Metroid and Fire Emblem ... which I'll then be justified to pirate because they are a greedy **** company that doesn't deserve my respect!
Seriously, and some of you wonder why I get so angry at times. If you go on some of the larger video games boards on Reddit, 4chan, Reset Era, this type of attitude is extremely common. In terms of big publishers, Nintendo by far is the best at delivering a constant supply of games as well as updating new installments in beloved series, and yet many act like they're the worst publisher in the industry who deserves to be pirated.
I mean, the fact that we keep mentioning Metroid Prime 4 is already proof enough. When they decided to make a new installment they originally gave it to Namco Bandai who was going to make it at their new Singapore studio. Well when development was going terrible, they then took it back and gave it to one of their own internal studio's Retro to make, which delayed the game several years and probably untold millions to do. Let's not forget the fact that Retro's previous 2 Donkey Kong games outsold the entire Metroid Prime series COMBINED. They took ones of their own studio's that could have worked on a more successful IP, but had them work on one of their lower tier ones instead.
Any other publisher would have either outright canceled Prime 4, or just had Namco Bandai finish working on the mess they were making and see if they could pull a fast one on consumers like Microsoft tried to do with Redfall around this time last year.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Adrock on April 15, 2024, 03:47:51 PM
As a passionate fan of Nintendo, I wish they'd announce and release some really cool sequels for series I love like Mario, Metroid and Fire Emblem ... which I'll then be justified to pirate because they are a greedy **** company that doesn't deserve my respect!
LOL, the hoops some people jump through because they can't admit they simply want to steal.
Companies aren't your friends. I view it as a purely transactional relationship. I exchange money for goods and services, and if a company doesn't or no longer provides those, they don't get my monies. My respect doesn't keep their lights on.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on April 16, 2024, 11:39:46 AM
Piracy is a blanket term that encompasses theft. Emulation is a more specific one that applies to all of the points that you’ve raised. Emulation implies ownership, and once something is owned, it is the right of the owner to distribute/emulate it at their discretion.
When one can no longer buy something, they have reason to emulate.
Also, resorting to homophobic name calling as a means of positing the superiority of your perspective is petty and immature. Do better. You came here for reasonable discussion because you felt shut out of other communities.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Adrock on April 16, 2024, 03:06:31 PM
You and your boyfriends first made the claim that piracy hurts game sales before me.
Your logical fallacy is [ad hominem]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem)
BTW, this started because you first claimed that piracy is morally correct. There's no point in discussing this further when you've Neo-dodged every criticism about the original claim.
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Stealing implies someone had something taken from them. Piracy never takes the original game away from the dev, it just makes a copy. You're talking about nintendo like they're a starving indie company when they're the richest company in japan period.
Your logical fallacy is [strawman]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman)
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They have sold over 140 million switches, made over 1 billion dollars of profit on software sales and the switch is on pace to become the best selling console of all time. I think they won't lose sleep if a few million pirate their games, especially as the switch has been pirated day one.
Your logical fallacy is [special pleading]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading)
Won't lose sleep? Nintendo literally sued Yuzu into oblivion because of people pirating Tears of the Kingdom.
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If piracy hurt sales as you pretend it does, the switch would of failed.
Your (informal) logical fallacy is [false dilemma]. (https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/false-dilemma-fallacy/)
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At least someone here comprehends how piracy preserves old games. But tbh yall sound like boomers who bought the "you wouldn't steal a car" anti piracy campaigns, and can't move on and accept that publishers do a piss poor job of providing access to their legacy titles.
LOL, no one was saying otherwise (though there's more nuance than you presented). The difference is you're the only one claiming its "morally correct".
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 17, 2024, 08:23:56 AM
You and your boyfriends first made the claim that piracy hurts game sales before me.
Your logical fallacy is [ad hominem]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem)
BTW, this started because you first claimed that piracy is morally correct. There's no point in discussing this further when you've Neo-dodged every criticism about the original claim.
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Stealing implies someone had something taken from them. Piracy never takes the original game away from the dev, it just makes a copy. You're talking about nintendo like they're a starving indie company when they're the richest company in japan period.
Your logical fallacy is [strawman]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman)
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They have sold over 140 million switches, made over 1 billion dollars of profit on software sales and the switch is on pace to become the best selling console of all time. I think they won't lose sleep if a few million pirate their games, especially as the switch has been pirated day one.
Your logical fallacy is [special pleading]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading)
Won't lose sleep? Nintendo literally sued Yuzu into oblivion because of people pirating Tears of the Kingdom.
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If piracy hurt sales as you pretend it does, the switch would of failed.
Your (informal) logical fallacy is [false dilemma]. (https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/false-dilemma-fallacy/)
Quote
At least someone here comprehends how piracy preserves old games. But tbh yall sound like boomers who bought the "you wouldn't steal a car" anti piracy campaigns, and can't move on and accept that publishers do a piss poor job of providing access to their legacy titles.
LOL, no one was saying otherwise (though there's more nuance than you presented). The difference is you're the only one claiming its "morally correct".
Piracy is morally correct. 8)
You guys can't claim strawman when earlier one of you said piracy was stealing.
Yeah they sued yuzu, it was their choice to do so. Nothing would of happened to them had they not done so. They created the problem.
It's not a false dilemma as you all have clearly stated piracy hurts game sales. At the very least smaller nintendo games like metroid dread and pikmin 4 should've flopped if piracy was truly an issue. If it truly is a "false dilemma" to counter your claim of piracy being stealing and hurting nintendo's business, what other conclusions can there be when the switch has been so financially successful? It is black and white. You are wrong and I am right.
It's not morally correct to use piracy to preserve old games, or new ones? There's no "nuance" it is morally correct to pirate, at least when it comes to aaa games.
Piracy is a blanket term that encompasses theft. Emulation is a more specific one that applies to all of the points that you’ve raised. Emulation implies ownership, and once something is owned, it is the right of the owner to distribute/emulate it at their discretion.
When one can no longer buy something, they have reason to emulate.
Also, resorting to homophobic name calling as a means of positing the superiority of your perspective is petty and immature. Do better. You came here for reasonable discussion because you felt shut out of other communities.
Emulating old games almost always requires illegally downloading roms aka piracy. 99% of people emulating aren't paying hundreds of dollars to buy a legitimate copy of the game to then dump.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: broodwars on April 17, 2024, 10:06:01 AM
I don't think it's "morally right" to pirate brand new games that are in no danger at the moment of becoming unavailable or inaccessible. I'm absolutely onboard with preserving games from previous generations however you can, but to me the line stops there.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Evan_B on April 17, 2024, 01:30:23 PM
I think we’ve come to an impasse where your definition of piracy and emulation are dissimilar to my own. I see emulation as an act of preservation, while piracy is an act of theft. The thing is already preserved, you are stealing it because you don’t want to access its method of preservation.
Where this becomes morally gray- which, despite the tendency to shout “**** nuance,” is a thing that does exist- is how that preservation is taking place. I suppose it has something to do with ownership, as well. I know disclaimers on software exist, and that they state that illegal copying and redistribution of a product can land you in legal trouble. The law of man is a self-fabricated one, however, and I think it would be better to have a discussion about what constitutes illegal redistribution, because no, I don’t think an individual distributing game that is no longer accessible on the Nintendo 3DS eShop for the purposes of emulation is piracy because you can no longer reasonably purchase that software, but yes, an individual distributing Tears of the Kingdom a week after it was released for the purposes of emulation is piracy.
If you have some counter to this mentality, I’d genuinely be curious about your reasoning, because I’m open to a discussion and I am not going to insult you for disagreeing with my interpretation.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: pokepal148 on April 17, 2024, 02:07:05 PM
The **** happened here?
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: broodwars on April 17, 2024, 03:12:43 PM
People were bored talking about Nintendo. It's on-topic. :P
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: pokepal148 on April 17, 2024, 05:01:34 PM
I won't comment on my activities with older systems where your only other option is the used market but pirating for a modern system like the Switch is a line I would never cross.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 18, 2024, 10:28:28 AM
I don't think it's "morally right" to pirate brand new games that are in no danger at the moment of becoming unavailable or inaccessible. I'm absolutely onboard with preserving games from previous generations however you can, but to me the line stops there.
I think for indie devs, it's morally wrong to pirate, but AAA devs it's usually ok. Nintendo's developers may be the best in gaming, but Nintendo the company are assholes a lot of the time. Despite my views, I buy AAA games instead of pirating because I want to support them. But I know that if the company can get away with screwing me as a customer, they will do that. Nintendo is not my friend.
Basically I'll support the games and buy them, but I will always keep my options open. You never know when online games will get delisted.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: Dinar87 on April 18, 2024, 10:35:20 AM
I think we’ve come to an impasse where your definition of piracy and emulation are dissimilar to my own. I see emulation as an act of preservation, while piracy is an act of theft. The thing is already preserved, you are stealing it because you don’t want to access its method of preservation.
Where this becomes morally gray- which, despite the tendency to shout “**** nuance,” is a thing that does exist- is how that preservation is taking place. I suppose it has something to do with ownership, as well. I know disclaimers on software exist, and that they state that illegal copying and redistribution of a product can land you in legal trouble. The law of man is a self-fabricated one, however, and I think it would be better to have a discussion about what constitutes illegal redistribution, because no, I don’t think an individual distributing game that is no longer accessible on the Nintendo 3DS eShop for the purposes of emulation is piracy because you can no longer reasonably purchase that software, but yes, an individual distributing Tears of the Kingdom a week after it was released for the purposes of emulation is piracy.
If you have some counter to this mentality, I’d genuinely be curious about your reasoning, because I’m open to a discussion and I am not going to insult you for disagreeing with my interpretation.
I guess my views are (for AAA piracy) pirating and emulating old games you cannot buy (subscriptions don't count, because I cannot own my purchases, they will be taken away as soon as I stop paying) is morally ok. Pirating current gen AAA games (or old games made accessible for a fair price aka not full price for a port and not a remake) is not morally clear, but I'm unsympathetic to nintendo and big companies generally.
The World Economic Forum wants us all to "own nothing, rent everything, no privacy, eat bugs, live in pods". Combine this with ai and robots probably replacing almost all human jobs in the next few decades, and I don't have a lot of sympathy left for big companies.
Title: Re: Boredom and Nintendo
Post by: ThePerm on April 19, 2024, 02:08:55 AM
You and your boyfriends first made the claim that piracy hurts game sales before me.
Your logical fallacy is [ad hominem]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem)
BTW, this started because you first claimed that piracy is morally correct. There's no point in discussing this further when you've Neo-dodged every criticism about the original claim.
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Stealing implies someone had something taken from them. Piracy never takes the original game away from the dev, it just makes a copy. You're talking about nintendo like they're a starving indie company when they're the richest company in japan period.
Your logical fallacy is [strawman]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman)
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They have sold over 140 million switches, made over 1 billion dollars of profit on software sales and the switch is on pace to become the best selling console of all time. I think they won't lose sleep if a few million pirate their games, especially as the switch has been pirated day one.
Your logical fallacy is [special pleading]. (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading)
Won't lose sleep? Nintendo literally sued Yuzu into oblivion because of people pirating Tears of the Kingdom.
Quote
If piracy hurt sales as you pretend it does, the switch would of failed.
Your (informal) logical fallacy is [false dilemma]. (https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/false-dilemma-fallacy/)
Quote
At least someone here comprehends how piracy preserves old games. But tbh yall sound like boomers who bought the "you wouldn't steal a car" anti piracy campaigns, and can't move on and accept that publishers do a piss poor job of providing access to their legacy titles.
LOL, no one was saying otherwise (though there's more nuance than you presented). The difference is you're the only one claiming its "morally correct".
this was the only joy I got out of my logic class.
