Topic: Rate the last TV show you've seen

[ThePerm]

I don't think he was defending it at all

Nah, man. “She could have said no and went her separate way” places responsibility on Starlight who had shown physical and verbal discomfort in that scene which quasi-defending The Deep. That’s the same line of thinking as “She was asking for it” or “She shouldn’t have dressed so provocatively” because it incorrectly shifts blame away from the perpetrator.

People need to learn how to read a room. Communication is over 90% non-verbal; over 50% of non-verbal communication is body language. If someone reluctantly says “Yes,” that’s a “No.” It fills me with dread that I even have to explain this.

I was definitely not defending The Deep's actions. I was more making a critique on your use of language. Myself using the example of the towney rapist wasn't a whataboutism, but a situational comparison. We were going over the definition of words. One situation was clear rape and the other was sexual misconduct. We have two trisyllabic words for this, not a monosyllabic or disyllabic word. That was my critique on the English language. A mere irrelevant diatribe.

 I don't care if you spend most of your waking life at work, you should not have sexual relationships with co-workers. It is a bad idea for a number of reasons. Especially if you have some sort of seniority.

That aside she should have said no and immediately reported him. As it turns out he had no real power over her and his compatriots thought of him as a joke. They might have taken her side. Even if they didn't take her side. It is still the better choice to immediately report him. Her whole plotline is about selling little pieces of herself for a sawdust rabbit. Don't sell your soul to evil organizations. If they want you to suck a dick from the start then there is something wrong there. That's a red flag. That indicates that is not the worse thing you'd have to do for that organization. There is no benefit here in being complicit.

And also, I don't think he could beat her in a fight, he couldn't even overpower a towney, so she also should have said no for that reason too. Talk about reading a room. She might be the most powerful person in the group. Hard to say between her and Homelander. The Deep had no social power over her, he had no physical power over her. She had a full house and she folded because he was bluffing. She's a bad card player. I never said she was asking for it. Those aren't words I used.  It never had anything to do with how she was dressed. The Deep is the propositioner here.  Let's take gender out of it. And super powers. If someone offered me a job in a movie and I had to suck a dick then I would say no and not do the movie. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with how I was dressed. Sidestep, I'm pretty sure Christian Bale would have done more Batman movies if it meant he'd keep making money on them, but he had to stop eventually because you can only wear that fucking costume so long before it has reached deep throating levels of uncomfortability.  As the old proverb goes 'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink'

Of course, these hypothetical situations are putting interpersonal transactions before jurisprudence. Obviously, sexual quid pro quo for personal gain is illegal in a number of jurisdictions, especially the propositioning of it. Also to be clear I don't judge her actions from any sort of moral standpoint, purely a gamesmanship stance.

And also we want Starbright to make all these bad choices because it furthers the plot.

[Adrock]

I was definitely not defending The Deep's actions.

...

There is no benefit here in being complicit.

That's victim blaming.

Do you know what complicity means? You're stating a person who is coerced into a sexual act is a willing participant in the abuse/crime against them which doesn't make any sense. You are defending The Deep's actions by placing literally any responsibility on Starlight. Rewatch the scene.

1. The Deep whips his dick out.
2. Starlight shows clear discomfort and tries to leave the room.
3. The Deep blackmails her.

We're talking about fictional characters, but I imagine the same logic applies if they were real people which makes this socially frightening.

And also, I don't think he could beat her in a fight, he couldn't even overpower a towney, so she also should have said no for that reason too. Talk about reading a room. She might be the most powerful person in the group. Hard to say between her and Homelander. The Deep had no social power over her, he had no physical power over her. She had a full house and she folded because he was bluffing. She's a bad card player.

Irrelevant. She had none of that information at the time. Also, more victim blaming.

I never said she was asking for it. Those aren't words I used.

No one said you did. I very specifically made a comparison and said: "That’s the same line of thinking". Then, you ignored the most important part of that sentence: "it incorrectly shifts blame away from the perpetrator." Jebus, man, you quoted me.

If someone offered me a job in a movie and I had to suck a dick then I would say no and not do the movie. Simple as that.

Good for you. Have you considered that other people may react differently to abuse than you?

More importantly, you misread the entire scene. Starlight actually tried to walk away then ultimately realized it wasn't that simple. See, you think this is only about leaving a job. The Deep threatened to basically end Starlight's whole career, her entire relationship with her mother, how the world (including and especially her hometown) would even look at her after supposedly attacking one of The Seven who are practically worshipped in this world, have her charged with assault and battery etc. You keep finding ways to shift blame onto the sexual assault victim, and it's fucking weird, man.

You even brought up the woman (Molly) who sexually assaulted The Deep. You mentioned he couldn't overpower her. Have you seen Chace Crawford's arms? Dude is yoked. He could have easily pushed her off, and that's the point. This isn't about physical strength. The Deep was under too much duress to react rationally in the moment. Just like Starlight was. The show couldn't have made that clearer without a scrolling marquee at the bottom of the screen: ***Remember that scene in the first episode!!!***

Also, there's no sexual penetration in that scene. Molly fingers his gills then starts rubbing herself while The Deep's pants are clearly visibly still on. Is sex implied? Maybe? The Deep never explicitly says "No" either. "I wouldn't call Molly a rapist. He could have said no and went his separate way. Not quite the same thing. It's still a shitty thing to do, but not quite the level of rape." See how fucked up that is?

To bring this full circle, this is exactly why I don't give a **** about The Deep's subplot. If someone has to be raped in order to learn some fucking empathy and that sexual assault is, you know, wrong and disgusting, I can't bring myself to care about that character or subplot.

[broodwars]

You know, that Aninaniacs clip was supposed to be a humorous way to end this tangent and let everyone just back away from a delicate subject matter... -_-

[Adrock]

You know, that Aninaniacs clip was supposed to be a humorous way to end this tangent and let everyone just back away from a delicate subject matter... -_-

1. We’re still discussing the show.
2. It’s important to have conversations about delicate subject matter.
3. You don’t have to be part of the conversation.
4. If it makes you feel better, I think I’ve said everything I need to say about it. I’m open to continuing it if ThePerm has anything else to add.

[ThePerm]

Before we discuss Starlight's case further. I want you to watch the movie Starry Eyes. Don't just look up the plot synopsis. I want you to watch the entire thing. Then we'll have a further discussion about her.

Also, there's no sexual penetration in that scene. Molly fingers his gills then starts rubbing herself while The Deep's pants are clearly visibly still on. Is sex implied? Maybe? The Deep never explicitly says "No" either. "I wouldn't call Molly a rapist. He could have said no and went his separate way. Not quite the same thing. It's still a shitty thing to do, but not quite the level of rape." See how fucked up that is?

Molly definitely violated The Deep. The Deep told Molly "Stop Stop Stop Stop Stop Stop" She said "it's just my pinky" and he said "no, i said it hurt" and then "alright look, maybe you should go" and then she tells him "I'm not going anywhere you fucking freak" she tells him "lay back" he hesitates, and then she says "I said lay back!" and then she pushes him down and jams her fingers down his orifices. He says "owww Oh my god" So very clearly a rape there.

[Adrock]

Before we discuss Starbright's case this further. I want you to watch the movie Starry Eyes. Don't just look up the plot synopsis. I want you to watch the entire thing. Then we'll have a further discussion about her.

I’m not tracking down and watching a completely separate and unrelated movie because you doubled down on victim blaming. Get your point across without assigning me homework. Unbelievable, man.

So very clearly a rape there.

Is it though? Gills are respiratory organs. The point of that scene was to simulate rape in a fictional scenario that has no possibility of happening in real life because people don’t have gills. Yes, Molly violated The Deep by forcing him into a situation in which he was visibly and physically uncomfortable with. You can see that for what it is yet for some reason coercing someone into giving a blowjob is completely different to you.

What else you got? I’ve said my piece repeatedly. I don’t think you’re going to get it, and I don’t want to disappoint broodwars further.

[ejamer]

So all I'm getting from this conversation (such as it is) is that The Boys probably isn't a show I'm interested in watching.

Has anyone checked out the new Dark Crystal show on Netflix?  Recently watched the movie with my daughter, who had mixed feelings about it. Not sure if it's something to bring her in on or not and am looking for opinions.

[Adrock]

So all I'm getting from this conversation (such as it is) is that The Boys probably isn't a show I'm interested in watching.

Depends on what your preferences are. Do you like superhero movies? The Boys attempts to deconstruct the genre, doesn’t quite get there (yet?) but is still pretty enjoyable on its own. There are some try-hard moments and an overuse of sexual assault as character motivation. It’s so overused in fiction there days that it often comes off as lazy.

More importantly, how do you feel about Karl Urban? If you’re a fan, watch this.

Has anyone checked out the new Dark Crystal show on Netflix?  Recently watched the movie with my daughter, who had mixed feelings about it. Not sure if it's something to bring her in on or not and am looking for opinions.

I tried, but the heavy use of narration as soon as I clicked “play” put me off immediately. I’m juggling a few shows at the moment so maybe I’ll revisit it once I get through the others.

[ThePerm]

Quote

    So very clearly a rape there.

Is it though? Gills are respiratory organs. The point of that scene was to simulate rape in a fictional scenario that has no possibility of happening in real life because people don’t have gills. Yes, Molly violated The Deep by forcing him into a situation in which he was visibly and physically uncomfortable with. You can see that for what it is yet for some reason coercing someone into giving a blowjob is completely different to you.

If somebody had tentacles and they shoved them down somebodies nostrils while they simultaneously jerked off that would be a rape. Even without the fapping If you put your fingers in an orifice and someone tells you not to do it. I don't care what orifice is, it is rape. You don't penetrate people's mucous membranes without their permission. Gills are most definitely sexual organs. Anything with a hole can be used for sex. And talk about doubling down? The Deep said no and also said stop several times. No means no. There is a difference between holding somebody down and forcing yourself onto someone and "I'll make people not like you"
I could have used a separate character, but I don't thing there were any other sexual misconduct incidents in the show other than Translucent's nudism.

Don't want to watch Starry Eyes?  Then I don't want to discuss this much further. I think you're using a lot of idiomatic phrases and your arguments lack nuance. I also think you have a sexist double standard. You also have a specieist double standard. There is a difference between putting the blame on a perpetrator for one incident and saying the victim has also made a series of subsequent stupid decisions.  I wasn't victim blaming. I never accused her of provoking The Deep into some sort sexual madness. I never slut shamed her or cared about how she conducted herself by some belief structure standard. None of my critiques of her fall into the definition of victim blaming. He would have propositioned her eventually because he is an sleazeball. He should have never propositioned a co-worker. But Co-workers should never accept propositions either. If I offered you bath salts it is up to you if you take them. It's bad that I offered them. It's bad if you take them. Those are two separate things. There is a difference between rape and sexual harassment.  These things are not black and white. There is grey area. If I forced you with a gun to take bath salts that is worse than merely offering them. Choice and consent make all the difference in the world. Starlight was never incapacitated or helpless in this situation. He was wrong for asking because A. The promptness that he pulled his dick out B. Because he was her future co-worker at a fictional superhero institution C. and because he threatened her socially afterward. He's clearly in the wrong for these three things. That doesn't mean I don't think she made a subsequently bad series of choices. She can decide not to do those things, and that doesn't mean if she decided not to do those things that he's not still wrong for asking. These are separate things. I don't blame her for sucking his dick, but I think she would have been happier in the long run if she didn't. Clearly it conflicts with her belief system and this does her psychological trauma.

Sometimes it is a better decision to go the other way. The purpose of her character is an allegory for maintaining integrity and not losing integrity by making choices that conflict with your belief structure. That is a central theme to the show. Hughie doesn't have to take the money, Hughie doesn't have to kill Translucent, Hughie doesn't have to collect intel on Starlight. Eventually he does all these things and this compromises his character.  Queen Maeve represents Annie's future. She's the future version of Starlight where she's already made a series of bad consequences over several years to the extant she is totally compromised. The Deep tells Annie when he sees her that "When I first got here I thought I was a fraud" because he is. Red flags. Get out. Get out. Starlight doesn't have to be one of the seven, she doesn't have to suck the deeps dick, she doesn't have to wear a stupid sexist outfit. She's better off on her own than working at a corporation that does unethical experiments on infants. Personally, I used to work for an evil corporation in real life. Working there ate at my soul. They were monopolistic and have plans for global domination. I morally objected to the way they ran their company. There were people there that were future version of myself if I continued to work there. There were very obese and I overheard someone once complaining about how bad their hemorrhoids had become. I'd read memos from the company and I'd think to myself "wtf" Eventually I stopped coming in. Actually I turned in my resignation and they begged me to stay and then I stayed for another six months. Then I stopped coming in. I lost money. I ran out of savings.  Eventually I found another much better job. But I got out. That was the correct choice.

On the other hand she should have definitely made all these bad choices because it was entertaining. I can't wait till the last season when you absolutely hate her character a la Jenny Schecter from the L word. It's always fun being the creepy voyeur ghost watching all these crazy fictional situations. I liked being the creepy voyeur ghost for Breaking Bad especially. It always had good vantage points. I definitely would recommend this show. Not a show for children though. Skeksis scare the **** out of me though.

[oohhboy]

So all I'm getting from this conversation (such as it is) is that The Boys probably isn't a show I'm interested in watching.

Go watch it if you have any remote interest in superheroes as it tears down the façade, throws out the saccharine, shows the terrifying reality in a super powered world. Karl Urban and Antony Starr both Kiwis absolutely own the show. Antony gets bonus point as Homelander, amazingly well played.

Those two are blowing up the sex angle way out of proportion to the rest of the show and given what happens later, it makes it I dare say pedestrian. Dicks, abusers, enablers, assholes don't give a **** about your gender, it doesn't discriminate, it's all bad and plenty to go around.

[ThePerm]

Yeah the things we're talking about are like 8 minutes of the show total. Maybe less.

[Adrock]

Those two are blowing up the sex angle way out of proportion to the rest of the show and given what happens later, it makes it I dare say pedestrian. Dicks, abusers, enablers, assholes don't give a **** about your gender, it doesn't discriminate, it's all bad and plenty to go around.

The scenes themselves are short but the sex angle lingers in the background as it drives the narrative of at least two major characters.

I tapped out of that discussion once I was assigned homework. Then, a strawman and a few insults make that especially not worth it anymore.

[oohhboy]

It gives way to more generalised exploitation, coercion and impossible choices. It's not just 8 minutes nor is it all encompassing. That scene made for an excellent jumping off point but isn't the true source of Star Light's conundrum. Her character is far deeper.

[Adrock]

It gives way to more generalised exploitation, coercion and impossible choices. It's not just 8 minutes nor is it all encompassing. That scene made for an excellent jumping off point but isn't the true source of Star Light's conundrum. Her character is far deeper.

I mostly agree. The scene is the beginning of Starlight’s disillusionment of The Seven except (I believe) the point is that she’s the only one who will remain true to her values and (interestingly) what The Seven is marketed as, not what they actually are. It was effective in that sense though I personally find the use of sexual assault as a motivator and surviving sexual assault as a sign of strength especially with female characters to be a stale and quite frankly, lazy narrative coupon. If writers can’t create resonant characters without these emotional shortcuts, they’re not trying very hard.

Still, the discussion is worth having, and I don’t agree that it was blown out of proportion. People should talk about it specifically because it is difficult to talk about. If we don’t have the conversations when toxic behavior comes up, when should we have these conversations? Here, we appear to have someone who has a fundamental misunderstanding of coerced consent, what constitutes as victim blaming, and the need to qualify abuse. It felt personally irresponsible not to have that conversation.

Whether The Deep is a rapist in a legal sense didn’t change my assessment of that part of the show so it was odd to be called out on it even if it was a mere “well, actually.” To me, the difference doesn’t matter because I’m not arguing it in a court of law. I place sexual coercion on the same moral plane as rape. The show seems to do so as well by mirroring those scenes featuring that particular character. It’s exactly like you said: it’s all bad. I just can’t sanction someone making excuses for an abuser. I feel as if I have to say something. I’m sorry if it made people uncomfortable, but I’m not that sorry.

[oohhboy]

It is out of proportion as there is so, so much more to the show. ejamer impression is Rape: The show, something more in line with SVU.

Final observation: The discussion of Starlight in this thread mirrors her treatment by others in the show, female and pretty.

[Adrock]

Stranger Things Season 3

Finally got around to binging this after running through Schitt’s Creek (all four seasons on Netflix) and The Good Place (Season 3). Much better than Season 2 which I didn’t particularly like. I personally still believe Season 1 was the best. It came out of nowhere and did something other shows at the same time weren’t doing. It’s difficult to top that. Still, I don’t want to judge Season 3 on what is wasn’t.

My biggest issue is the ending. Like Season 1, the showrunners could have wrapped the story up there. It works as an fitting finale (yeah, it really sucked what happened to Barbara, but it wasn’t a hanging plot thread). The end of Season 2 felt like there was more story to tell by asking more questions than providing answers. The cliffhanger in Season 3 (Hopper = “the American” in the Russian prison? My guess is yes) makes me uneasy for the future. If they don’t stick the actual landing, Season 3’s finale is going to stand out even more with its strong, emotional gut-punch of an ending without the mid-credits scene. I’m hoping they pull off a Toy Story 4 which miraculously managed to have an even better and more fitting and emotionally resonant ending than Toy Story 3.

Anyway, all-around solid performances from the entire cast though Mike grated on me a bit early (maybe that was the point? If so, good job?). I love the addition of Cary Elwes, continuing the tradition of casting actors who gained fame in the 80s (e.g. Paul Reiser, Sean Astin). Normally, I feel as if Erica would be a character with serious go-away heat, but damn, Priah Ferguson put in another fine performance, building off of being the low-key best addition to Season 2. There was also a much better, clearer story than Season 2. No need to get into that. I also feel as if Dustin and Suzie’s rendition of the Neverending Story theme should have been cringe yet it totally wasn’t. I dug it. Those kids made it adorbz. Right on.

I was about ready to give up on Stranger Things after Season 2. It was unfocused and messy. I’m cautiously optimistic about Season 4 though I really hope it ends there.

[ThePerm]

One thing I've learned over my years of watching media is if you didn't see a death happen on screen then you can't make assumptions. The American can be few other people though, but probably better if it's Hopper

[Adrock]

The actor who played that character was recently spotting with uncut hair and a long beard. It's difficult to hide these things in a connected world. I guess it could be for a different role, but come on...

[ThePerm]

Well yeah it's going to be him. I'd give it a 97% chance.

[ShyGuy]

I was hoping Matthew Modine would come back

[Stratos]

Started The Dark Crystal. Seems rather interesting. I am almost entranced by the puppetry and environmental details. Nice to see Jim Henson Studios doing something like this again.

Gives me a Lord of the Rings vibe with the opening narration, so I gave it a pass and I am enjoying the world and characters so far.

[ThePerm]

I was hoping Matthew Modine would come back

That was where I put my 3%

[BlackNMild2k1]

Santa Clarita Diet - HAHAHA OMG GROSS

I don't know why I would keep skipping over this show on Netflix as I was casually scrolling past looking for something mildly entertaining to watch. Several friends have recently recommended it again, and the opportunity came up once more that I was casually browsing and decided to check it out. Right from Ep1 I was enjoying this show, as all the mains are very charismatic (Drew Barrymore & Timothy Olyphant to be more specific) and both have great comedic timing and delivery. Olyphant's overly expressive reactions, and Barrymore's optimistically enthusiastic approach to wrong in the name of "good".
This show is highly entertaining and humorous, with a very high gross out factor. Definitely my type of show. Too bad it only lasted the 3 seasons as Netflix just cancelled it after S3, but so far I'm enjoying pretty much every episode so far (just started S2)

If you're looking for a little bit of info on what the show is about..... Married Realtor Couple has a disastrous showing that ends in Drew becoming a "zombie". Now the couple must cope with new lifestyle changes whilst also maintaining their suburbanite regular family life image. Needless to say, easier said than done, especially when neighbors on both sides are cops, and your daughter is aware things ain't right.

edit: just finished S2E2 and this show just stays on the hilarious side of ridiculous. LOL
It's a shame I didn't start watching till after it was cancelled. This is a very fun show.

[ThePerm]

Santa Clarita Diet - HAHAHA OMG GROSS

I don't know why I would keep skipping over this show on Netflix as I was casually scrolling past looking for something mildly entertaining to watch. Several friends have recently recommended it again, and the opportunity came up once more that I was casually browsing and decided to check it out. Right from Ep1 I was enjoying this show, as all the mains are very charismatic (Drew Barrymore & Timothy Olyphant to be more specific) and both have great comedic timing and delivery. Olyphant's overly expressive reactions, and Barrymore's optimistically enthusiastic approach to wrong in the name of "good".
This show is highly entertaining and humorous, with a very high gross out factor. Definitely my type of show. Too bad it only lasted the 3 seasons as Netflix just cancelled it after S3, but so far I'm enjoying pretty much every episode so far (just started S2)

If you're looking for a little bit of info on what the show is about..... Married Realtor Couple has a disastrous showing that ends in Drew becoming a "zombie". Now the couple must cope with new lifestyle changes whilst also maintaining their suburbanite regular family life image. Needless to say, easier said than done, especially when neighbors on both sides are cops, and your daughter is aware things ain't right.

edit: just finished S2E2 and this show just stays on the hilarious side of ridiculous. LOL
It's a shame I didn't start watching till after it was cancelled. This is a very fun show.

It was a good show.


I'd recommend watching The Righteous Gemstones off HBO. It's a one-off. There's a small connection between the shows.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Dracula: 3 part mini series on BBC/Netflix

I originally checked this out as someone had said that it loosely follows the Bram Stoker Dracula book that I had read several times in my youth. Not that I remember all the details of that book, but it was one of the few books that I owned that I read more than once or even twice.
Well... I must really not remember most of the book, because I think only the 1st part, and maybe part of the second part were loosely from the book. the 3rd part was more of a "bringing it modern" telling of the story. It wasn't overly gory, and no nudity... after having watched the entire series, I would even let my daughter watch if she wanted. It wasn't exactly scary, and she really wanted to watch it with me, but I only let her watch the end (probably the nastiest part), as it wasn't that bad.
One of the best parts was how Dracula was actually quite funny in his own way. Centuries of this ****, and still hadn't lost his sense of humor or comedic timing.

each episode is of movie length (1.5hrs), but there are only 3 parts, so I was able to binge it over these last 2 days. I like the majority of it, but I'm not too fond of part 3, and more specifically how it ends. I feel like they could've made a longer series out of it had they handled it differently, but I guess that may not have been their goal. And that's a shame, because I would have tuned in for a longer series depending on how they handled part 3 differently.