Topic: Godzilla Mafia Finale The Monsters are victorious And the host is a bum.

[Spak-Spang]

Story Post

[Spak-Spang]

Vote Out:
Insanolord is dead…townie.

This might be the only mafia game where the mafia won without hitting a single player.  Sure they used powers to manipulate the votes but did not use an actual hit power.

[Spak-Spang]

A few notes about this mafia.

First, I want to thank all the players.  This was an experimental mafia…as I try to make most of my mafia games, and I appreciate you all playing, even if some of the roles and balance was not perfect.  I hope future hosts can use this game to come up with new ideas and modify and use some of my ideas in future games. 

Second, I want to apologize to all the players.  I was really excited about hosting this game, and then before it happened, I got distracted and my heart wasn't in the game as fully as it should have been.  This meant rules were not clearly defined, roles were not clearly defined….in one case I forgot the power of one player.  This should never happen and the host should be more careful and present a better game.

Last, some thoughts about roles and things I learned.

1)  Although, it was not used much.  I like the idea of giving additional powers to roles that may see limited use.  By giving a single player the ability to be the Doctor and the Investigator it allowed the townies 2 roles when in a small game they couldn't have it.  Same with the Vigilante which usually has a power that is too dangerous to use…so it is never used. 

I did think carefully about which powers to give which.  Do I give the investigator the power to also kill?  It seemed too overpowered.  I liked the Doctor/Investigator together as it made the player choose to be offensive or defensive in a sense…In most cases offensive is the best way to go…but there are situations where you might want to be defensive.

2)  The other good idea I had was hit or ability.  Originally Khush told his mafia that placing hits is more beneficial than abilities because killing a player helps eliminate the player and their powers for the future…but the subtle manipulation you can have of the townies to hide is pretty powerful.  To balance all the abilities the mafia had I felt it needed to be hit or ability…not both.  This is a balance I think should be kept in future games.

3)  Tiebreakers:  For better or worse I stick by my idea of no reopened polls.  I think it is important for townies to participate and be careful about the votes and how the mafia can manipulate them. 

4)  Problems with the game:  The vote canceling power being 2 votes canceled was Over Powered for the mafia in such a small game.  I found a "balance" in that the character with the power could not protect himself with it…but even still it was really powerful, and could shut the townies down completely.  I do not believe this power in its current 2 votes cancel is Over Powered if it was a townies ability.  And thus I feel next time this power is used…if it was a townie ability it would be OK. 

So if I did it all over again.  I would give the Mafia the vote changer role, and the Townies the vote canceling role.  This would balance it much better I think.  Though I could see limiting the vote canceling to a single player period…even still I would probably give the vote canceling power to the townies.

Finally, I am really lucky the Killers role was not used, as I feel the game could have been more broken earlier.  I wanted to do so much more with the mafia game originally, but didn't have the players for the roles I desired. 

Anyway, I hope you all had fun, and I do hope some of my ideas are implemented in future mafia games.

[Khushrenada]

Good job lolmonade. Townies deciding to create a tie vote and have everyone die was a bad plan as it easily allowed a mafia member to change his vote seconds before the vote closed. Of course, there was the danger of Spak-Spang not being around to close it but you did well. As for targeting Nickmitch, I sent this message to Spak-Spang last night after the final day began:

Anyways, my stance on it would be to target Nickmitch and hope I could convince Insanolord. I'd throw Nickmitch's argument right back at him. There is absolutely no proof that he is innocent. He said he was right about Khushrenada being guilty but that was posted after Pokepal148 said he had investigated Khush and found out he was mafia. He probably voted for Khushrenada realizing he had been exposed and couldn't save and therefore hoped voting with the townies would protect his cover. Then he no doubt later switched his vote to Stratos that day because the mafia had realized they could tie the vote and take out both the killer and detective. Then on day 3, he again voted for Khushrenada to protect himself like he had planned on Day 2. He says the mafia voted for Khushrenada on Day 3 to protect themselves. He would only know that's a fact because he was mafia and did it on Day 3. After lolmonade voted for jrlibrarian, he then voted for Pixpix causing a tie since he knew Glad0s was about to die. Now, he's trying to get both townies to vote each other out so that he is safe from the vote and the mafia can win the game. Look what Khushrenada posted on Day 2. He said he would target Nickmitch but felt bad to do so since he did that last game. He said he didn't think Glad0s would be godfather twice in a row but he was and Khushrenada already knew that he was but was trying to deflect who his mafia was. Khushrenada was clearly trying to protect his mafia mates on Day 2 because they hadn't shown up yet.

Nickmitch is the final mafia member. All pieces fit.

You'd actually come up with a few of those arguments also. Good job.

My biggest regret is not ending this game on Day 2 like I realized at lunch today that I could have. Remember, that vote was 6 - 2 for Stratos and then I changed my vote to Pokepal and cancelled to Stratos votes to cause a tie.

What I should have done is have lolmonade and myself both change our votes to a townie, (say Nickmitch since he voted for me at first on Day 2) and then cancel two more Stratos votes again. This would have cause a three way tie with Pokepal, Stratos and Nickmitch and they would have all died leaving 3 townie and the 3 mafia members. I just didn't see the potential there myself.

[Spak-Spang]

Thanks Khush:  And you helped me explain exactly why next time the vote canceling role should be a townies role. 

[Khushrenada]

I don't know. Considering the godfather this game was the townie MVP, I'd say giving mafia some form of power is a good thing.

Still, an odd game to be sure. I'm very sure this is the first mafia game for the mafia to win without making a hit. I think it might also be the first time Nickmitch didn't win when making it to the final vote.

Then there is the question of whether the mafia should have won at the end of Day 4. Once again, there was another tie vote with two townies dead so at that point there were 2 townies and 2 mafia members. When does a person die from inactivity? At the end of the vote? At the end of the night phase and start of the day phase? For that matter, can victory be achieved during the night phase or does the numbers have to be there at the start of the next day?

Finally, something else I just realized and is rather silly on my part to admit. On Day 1, I didn't even realize I had the vote cancelling role. I thought I had the role ability cancelling role. So, since I had no mafia support, I decided to just use it then and take a shot in the dark. So, I told Spak-Spang to block Stratos role. When Pokepal revealed Stratos was Godzilla, I thought I had blocked him and so he only had one kill that night anyways. It was until lolmonade came on and pointed out that I wasn't the ability canceller that I realized my role and started figuring out what I could do with it.

Looking further back, this means on day 1, I could have left my vote for Stratos and then at the end of the day, send in the order to cancel Stratos vote thus causing a 3 way tie with Stratos, Mop it up and Stevey. Of course, this means I'd have died on Day 2 as Pokepal probably would have spoken to someone or post my identity like he did on Day 2 leading to a unified townie vote out of me. (Although even now, I can think of how I would have perhaps argued out of it). But it's too late to change any of that so I'll just have to live with this mafia win, I guess.

[Spak-Spang]

Khush:  Yes.  I noted that I did you wrong.  Again…the host was a bum.  Actually it was funny, I was so cute with the names of the characters, I did not in my flow chart write the powers out for me to easily see.  An amateur mistake I will not do again.  As such, I really had a problem, with day 1.  I quickly corrected my mistake.

As I said…each game is a learning experience for host and players, and hopefully future hosts.  Some experiments I believe would have worked, or can work in future mafia games.  Other experiments need to be canned.  It is up to future hosts to decide if they liked the roles. 

I still wonder what would the game be like if the townies tried to expose Khush as Mafia in private messages.  If Khush was killed and Pokepal148 was killed early…you still might have the soldier alive day 1…and maybe the Stratos alive past day 2…that would be a dangerous situation for both mafia and townies.

[Stratos]

I'll get you all next time, and your little dog too!


Good game. It was short, sweet and intense. Good times.

[pokepal148]

Insano... Nick...

YOU HAD ONE JOB!!!!!!

[Stratos]

Don't be too hard on yourself. I think every host has made one or two mistakes in their games. It happens. There is a lot to take in and deal with as a host. I thought things went well despite the role confusion.

[nickmitch]

I meant to check the thread right before the vote closed, but I fell asleep.

Like, that was the plan. I knew whoever was mafia would switch, all I had to do was catch them.

Should've known it was Lolmonade since non-activity on the last days was beneficial to them.

Rats.

[Spak-Spang]

Nickmitch.  Yeah I knew your plan.  Actually, it was fairly clever.  I think overall, I accomplished most of what I wanted in this mafia.  It was an interesting game…with some twists and turns.  It ended in 5 days.  Either side could have won at the end.

Townie MVP goes to:  Pokepal148.  Pokepal died early, but basically exposed 2 of the most dangerous players for the townies.  With Godzilla dead and a mafia member exposed day 3 it set the townies up for a pretty good come back.

Mafia MVP:  Khushrenada.  When Khush became mafia, I thought he would be voted out day one for sure.  Then he was investigated day 1, and I knew he would be dead…but he had such a clever lie day one.  I think that lie helped Stevey not vote for him first…and without a band wagon it led to him surviving.  Then he used his ability well to keep townies dying and mafia safe.

Another thing that happened was the Godfather not playing…and this isn't the only game I have seen where that has happened.  It helps me realize that you need to give the mafia powers beyond just the Godfather, just in case a player is not able to play a few day.  I already went over how I should have refined the powers, but I do believe it is important to give power the the mafia…and since it is either or…mafia could hide the fact that their Godfather is inactive by using other powers. 

[Stratos]

You could always give the mafia a 'collective power' where they don't need the godfather to make the hit. They vote and the winner of their vote is killed. Or they could vote on which member gets the power. If you have the chance for a tiebreaker you could assign a different value to different mafia members. The Godfather gets two votes to break ties.


This could create a whole new dynamic for the game. Mafia power struggles to get a different person in power, a difference in gameplay strategy. I'd like to explore that in future games.

[Mop it up]

I think it's tough to judge how balanced things were in a game like this. Not only did it have few players, but even more were barely active. In a larger game with more participation, it's likely that none of the roles or sides would have felt overpowered. Plus, this game still came down to the wire, with only 2 players left alive at the end. So even within this game, it seemed fine.

[Spak-Spang]

True:

I wonder what would have happened Mop It Up if you were available day 1.  You could have deflected your vote.  You would have exposed yourself, to the mafia, BUT you would have also exposed yourself to the Scientist.  It would have been a tight game.  Mafia would of had to block your powers…or risk death. 

[lolmonade]

I meant to check the thread right before the vote closed, but I fell asleep.

Like, that was the plan. I knew whoever was mafia would switch, all I had to do was catch them.

Should've known it was Lolmonade since non-activity on the last days was beneficial to them.

Rats.

I was actually tempted to let it be a three-way tie and let everyone die, but figured that if I made it to the end, I had an obligation to at least try to squeak-out the win.  At first I thought maybe I could convince insanolord to vote with me against you, as you had more of an activity record than he did to suggest guilt against, but once it appeared you two colluded with each other, I thought I was finished.


I expected you to vote along with insanolord to vote against me, and thought I was completely screwed.  Once it was a three-way tie, I knew there was at least a small chance of stealing the game.


Khush had an uphill battle from day one, since Glad0s never showed up and I was basically useless throughout half the game because of my son sending himself to the hospital.  It was fortunate circumstance between the tie in day 4 and the last day shenanigans that I was able to carry the rest of the game home.

[pokepal148]

True:

I wonder what would have happened Mop It Up if you were available day 1.  You could have deflected your vote.  You would have exposed yourself, to the mafia, BUT you would have also exposed yourself to the Scientist.  It would have been a tight game.  Mafia would of had to block your powers…or risk death. 

And I would likely have done a protection and sent you after khush.