Topic: Wii U - e3 is over... now what?

[mac<censored>]

I LOVE the N64 controller. Going back to it, the analog is not as precise as today's controllers, but after a couple of hours with it I'd get back in the swing of things. I'd argue that you're a crusty old stick in the mud if you lack the imagination to properly use the N64 controller.

Yeah, the N64 controller was totally fine, as was the GC controller (basically the best controller on any system thus far).  The WiiU controller looks great too, and interesting (more interesting than the Wii, I think), assuming they can keep the weight low enough for extended play comfort.

I never liked the Wii controller though ... I could never to get the precise response that others seemed to.  Maybe some of that has to do with my playing space though, which isn't very well-suited to free motion... (about 1m x 1m, sitting down, fairly close to the television).

[BlackNMild2k1]

Peter Garza (Team Ninja): The overall game is about 30% finished.
Dragon Sword Controls and Full On Violence... all in HD and only on WiiU
http://www.giantbomb.com/news/ninja-gaiden-dragon-sword-inspiring-wii-u-controls-for-ninja-gaiden-3/3413/

"There was a DS version, so we have some experience with touch controls and it [Dragon Sword] seemed to be fairly well received," said Garza. "So, now we have the chance to give this full console experience with those controls on the Wii U. We've actually started development on it but we don't have anything set. We're just playing with it."

"We're looking forward to emerging of Ninja Gaiden 3 gameplay and visuals with Dragon Sword touch commands," he said. "That's where we're thinking now. Honestly, we're just playing with it, so it might change--that's the focus right now."

"What does it mean to cut someone with a sword, both physically and mentally?" he said. "You'll notice sequences when time slows down, the camera will zoom in. That's the representation of the sword going into the body, getting caught in the bones and the muscles of the enemy, and you have to really push through the meat of the body to finish the cut. We call that steel on bone."

Traditional Controls, Touch Controls, (?)Motion Controls(?), HD Visuals & Full Frontal Violence.
Sounds good to me.

[Chozo Ghost]

The N64 was a weird controller. The main problem was it only had one analog stick and the D-pad was unaccessible if you were using the sole analog stick, but other than that it was a fine controller. It certainly felt better in the hands than the tiny little dualshock controller and its atrophied tyrannosaurus rex armed grips.

[Ian Sane]

But now it looks more and more like Nintendo will have lots of the good stuff and Nintendo stuff, I ask again why are people still unhappy?

I got burned by the Wii.  So with the Wii U I'm being a doubting Thomas.  I need to see it for REAL.  Yeah in theory it should be the return of a Nintendo system with great third party support but until that is a reality, I'm going to hold back on my enthusiasm.  If any company can totally sink a "can't miss" idea, it's Nintendo.  There is also the problem that Nintendo themselves is no longer as interesting to me as a developer as they used to be.  I'm not interested in non-game Wii Sports crap, I don't trust Nintendo to make games that don't control like piss, and I'm getting kind of sick of the same sequels again and again and again.  If they just make a bunch of unplayable touchscreen garbage, what's the point for me?

[Chozo Ghost]

It will take a year or two after the WiiU launches before we can accurately form any opinion on it. Going by how it appears at its launch or even a few months after its launch isn't enough information to go by. We need to see how it stacks up once the competition appears, and we also need to see how the long term software support is going to be. When the Wii launched it looked like it was going to have promising support from both Nintendo and 3rd parties alike, and I don't think any of us dreamed that this many years into the Wii's life it was going to be dead in the water with zero support from anyone. Back in 2006-2007 the Wii was so insanely popular and selling so well that it was unthinkable that 3rd parties and Nintendo would both abandon it, but that's exactly what happened.

So like I said, its going to take a few years before we'll get a full and accurate picture of how the WiiU's software is going to be. Its looking promising right now, and if things look great at launch then that will be a good sign, but it won't tell you how things are going to be over the long term. That's the real issue. I think a lot of it depends on how powerful the next Xbox is going to be. Apparently the PS4 is going to be about the same as the WiiU, so there's no problem there, but what if the next Xbox smokes both of them? Combine a super powered Xbox with the fact that it is going to hog up all the PC ports and it could end up getting the lion's share of software support.

[Caterkiller]

The moment Wii got Soul Calibur Legends I had a feeling things would turn out like this. I was very confident about it the moment Dead Space hit.

If the 720 is a huge leap over the 360, some how it will get the least market share, it's just video game law.

[Ian Sane]

Apparently the PS4 is going to be about the same as the WiiU, so there's no problem there, but what if the next Xbox smokes both of them? Combine a super powered Xbox with the fact that it is going to hog up all the PC ports and it could end up getting the lion's share of software support.

Third parties tend to ignore the oddball.  The Wii was the oddball and it was one in the WORST possible way because it was too deficient from a hardware perspective to have PS360 games ported to it.  But if the Xbox 720 smokes the PS4 and Wii U, it will be the oddball.  The average multiplatform console game will be designed with the majority of platforms in mind so they'll be made for the PS4 and Wii U and the Xbox 720 will get those same games which won't make use of its extra power.  Nintendo should be okay as long as THEY are not the oddball.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Mark Rein Compliments WiiU
WiiU blushes like a shy little girl
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/epic-making-something-unreal?page=3

EDGE: Did you make any assumptions about Nintendo’s new hardware before Wii U was announced? Did it tally?

Mark Rein: Oh, wow. A really sticky situation. We were in the enviable position of not having to make assumptions, let’s just say that. I’m pretty impressed with the Wii U. It looks like a great device and I think it’ll do really well.

That comment sounds like Nintendo made sure that Epic was in the loop from the beginning and possibly offering advice on what to include so that it would work with Unreal 3.0 and hopefully beyond.
Either way I hope this means BIG support from EPIC and everyone else using their middleware.

[Ceric]

Mark Rein Compliments WiiU
WiiU blushes like a shy little girl
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/epic-making-something-unreal?page=3

EDGE: Did you make any assumptions about Nintendo’s new hardware before Wii U was announced? Did it tally?

Mark Rein: Oh, wow. A really sticky situation. We were in the enviable position of not having to make assumptions, let’s just say that. I’m pretty impressed with the Wii U. It looks like a great device and I think it’ll do really well.

That comment sounds like Nintendo made sure that Epic was in the loop from the beginning and possibly offering advice on what to include so that it would work with Unreal 3.0 and hopefully beyond.
Either way I hope this means BIG support from EPIC and everyone else using their middleware.

I couldn't believe Nintendo not going to all the most used 3rd party engines of today and getting them in early this time if their serious.

[Stogi]

Still, as a player, I don't care at all about exclusivity, I just want some pussy.

Fixed.

I got burned by the Wii.

Yeah, you should probably get that checked out.

[Chozo Ghost]

Apparently the PS4 is going to be about the same as the WiiU, so there's no problem there, but what if the next Xbox smokes both of them? Combine a super powered Xbox with the fact that it is going to hog up all the PC ports and it could end up getting the lion's share of software support.

Third parties tend to ignore the oddball.  The Wii was the oddball and it was one in the WORST possible way because it was too deficient from a hardware perspective to have PS360 games ported to it.  But if the Xbox 720 smokes the PS4 and Wii U, it will be the oddball.  The average multiplatform console game will be designed with the majority of platforms in mind so they'll be made for the PS4 and Wii U and the Xbox 720 will get those same games which won't make use of its extra power.  Nintendo should be okay as long as THEY are not the oddball.

But in this case its a little different because of all the console the Xbox is the most PC like and since it is built by Microsoft it kinda shares a lot of the same stuff as Windows, so that makes porting games back and forth a lot easier. If the next Xbox is a beast compared to the competition it will only be an oddball in comparison to other consoles, but it would be the most similar to PCs. PC gaming has always been far ahead of consoles in terms of the technical specs and all that, so a game which starts out and is designed for the PC market would have to be downgraded in order to work on consoles. The thing about a super powerful xbox is that it becomes less of a downgrade to move the PC games over to it than it would be to bring them to the WiiU or PS4.

So in that sense the WiiU and PS4 are actually the oddball systems because they will be much more weaker relative to PC gaming, so porting games to these systems means much more cuts have to be made, and for that reason (combined with the fact its just easier to port to xbox anyway) many PC games probably won't get ported to them. They will just be on the PC and Xbox and that's it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Resident Evil WiiU... Coming Soon!?
Raccoon City Port incoming...?
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/309112/news/resident-evil-on-wii-u-id-love-to-do-it-says-kawata/

"Whether or not we actually will develop a Resident Evil title for Wii U, we'll put that aside as obviously I don't know yet,"

"But for me personally, I'd love to do just that. It's a very, very interesting piece of hardware. Whenever I see new game machines and their new possibilities get into my head, the ideas just start flowing. I'd absolutely love to make a Resident Evil on it. I really love the idea of being able to play the game even if my wife or my kids come and steal the TV. That's great, brilliant."

"As a game designer, when I see Wii U, my first thoughts are: 'Oh wow, I could do this or that, or what would happen if I try to make a game like X,Y or Z.' My motivation instantly goes through the roof and I want to try a lot of interesting new things. Nothing's been decided specifically for Resident Evil but it certainly would be interesting."

Hopefully it's Resident Evil 6 instead though.

[Chozo Ghost]

Resident Evil is a single player franchise, so it would be perfectly suited for that new tablet controller thing. It would probably work great to use that to blast zombies.

[Ian Sane]

So in that sense the WiiU and PS4 are actually the oddball systems because they will be much more weaker relative to PC gaming, so porting games to these systems means much more cuts have to be made, and for that reason (combined with the fact its just easier to port to xbox anyway) many PC games probably won't get ported to them. They will just be on the PC and Xbox and that's it.

I get what you're saying and it could be concern.  However this gen it has been very common for PC games to be multiplatform releases with the HD consoles.  PC gamers complain that their games are being "consolized" and designed with the consoles in mind so realistically the PC version is a port of the console one.  What if that attitude remains?  I figure then, that the PS4 and Wii U will remain in consideration.  I mean they can make PC games that couldn't be done on the Xbox 360 now but they RARELY do so.  This gen they have no problem holding PC games back in terms of technology, in favour of the consoles.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Ubisoft Quebec making Assassin's Creed WiiU instead of the usual Montreal
They also find the WiiU to be interesting to develop for
http://nintendoeverything.com/68397/

“That hardware [Wii U] is interesting because, now it’s going to be in HD and wrapping that in with their control scheme – I’m curious to see where that goes.”

Just as a sidenote, Ubisoft Quebec is working on Assassin’s Creed Wii U. Ubisoft Montreal has been the main studio behind the franchise (and I assume that’s where Ashe comes from), though I do believe Quebec has chipped in a bit. From what I understand, Quebec is handling their first, true Assassin’s Creed on their own, so it should be interesting to see how the game turns out.

[Stogi]

Ummm Montreal is in Quebec.

[mac<censored>]

Ummm Montreal is in Quebec.

Nonetheless, "Ubisoft Quebec" and "Ubisoft Montreal" seem to be two different entities...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Quebec

[Chozo Ghost]

Ubisoft Quebec making Assassin's Creek

Is that somehow related to Dawson's Creek?

[Guitar Smasher]

Ummm Montreal is in Quebec.

But it's not in Quebec City.

[BlackNMild2k1]

What Developers Think of Wii U
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-27-what-developers-think-of-wii-u-article

Frank Gibeau, president, EA Games:

We're big supporters of it. There's a lot of advances in processing and GPUs and also what's happening on the interface level and online, and we're very pleased Nintendo has come out with a machine that can do HD.

The controller is awesome. It's fantastic. I loved the golf ball on the ground. That was a great visual. Like Miyamoto said, it'll open up new ways to play games we haven't even discovered yet. We have to spend time with the hardware and start to bring designs over to see what works, how it works and what you can do.

You saw with Madden football, obviously there are lots of cool new things you can do, and with FIFA [it could control] the way you call plays. We are looking at the Battlefield experience to Wii U. Nothing specific to announce, but we've already started looking at how we're going to do that and what the features will be.

I believe it is [capable of reproducing PS3 and Xbox 360 visuals]. It certainly has the high-definition resolution. But it looks like it's definitely competitive. And it'll do some very unique things.

Danny Bilson, core games boss, THQ:

I loved it [when Nintendo presented the console to THQ]. I just thought, there's nothing but creative possibility. What can we do with that controller that'll give some unique experiences with our games, or how does it make some of our games we already have in development better?
[*snip*]

Brian Farrell [THQ CEO] said, 'I want to be there at launch this time. I don't want to come in late on this platform.' So we flew up the next week to Seattle and met with them. I took them through the first year of the launch of their Wii U and what we were making. They got really excited about what we were making. And then Darksiders II was a natural for it as a launch title because we were already tracking to around those time frames anyway. Metro is in there as well, and they wound up in the press conference. I thought we looked really good up there as far as quality goes.

Hiroyuki Kobayashi, producer, Devil May Cry 4, Dragon's Dogma, Capcom:

It's hard to know how the market is going to react. I think the potential is there. The fact that we now have a high definition system from Nintendo means that developers are now going to be interested in putting out games for that system. How it's going to play out though is anyone's guess.

Michel Ancel, creator of Rayman and Beyond Good & Evil, Ubisoft:

I think it's really cool because I just see opportunities. New things to do, fewer constraints, more freedom to surprise the player. That's why we make games. We want to surprise gamers, to make them say, ah, I can do that now without hundreds of buttons. There's the touch-screen, I can maybe handle my inventory or have an alternative visual. But at the same time you still have the two analogues so you can still control the game the way you like. You have choices. I like this idea of choices.

Nintendo, for some time, was more like, 'We have one direction, follow us.' Now it's more, 'We have all these directions, do what you need to do.' Making games is hard – if you have too much constraint on top of making games it's much more difficult. I think there is a big ambition behind [the Wii U] and we will follow Nintendo to succeed in this because we have the feeling that it's the right direction.

John Carmack, co-founder, id Software:

It's a perfectly valid target for our id Tech 5 development platform. It's going to be very interesting to see what the marketing uptake of the Wii U is. If they're able to convert a lot of their existing Wii customers that are not hardcore gamers, that don't have the other consoles, then yeah, I'd certainly be interested in moving our technology over there.

Motion control can't be tacked on to a lot of different types of games. You need a game designed for motion control. While local touch-screen is something practically any game could derive some value out of.

there is more at the link.

Here is a full list of Dev's who commented:
-Frank Gibeau (EA Exec)
-Danny Bilson (THQ Exec)
-Brian Farrell (THQ CEO)
-Todd Hollenshead (id CEO)
-Jason Leigh (Blue Castle)
-Dave Grossman (Telltale)
-Hiroyuki Kobayashi (Capcom, DMC4/DD)
-Michel Ancel (Ubisoft, Rayman/BG&E) [Not the quote you probably think it is.]
-David Jaffe (Eat Sleep Play)
-Greg Zeschuk (BioWare)
-Andrew Wilson (EA Sports)
-Ted Price (Insomniac)
-John Carmack (id)

[Adrock]

Michel Ancel was pretty much dead on. I feel like this is the most sensible Nintendo has been with a console since SNES, where they just made hardware without any self-imposed limits (for its time). Considering the generally positive reaction WiiU, I sure hope Nintendo figures out the multiple tablet controller thing. With multiplayer experiences so important in terms of monetary and replay value, I think that will be key to how the console is viewed by consumers and developers alike.

[Caliban]

John Carmack's approach (wait and see) is going to bite him in the ass. I don't think Rage is going to sell as much as they're hoping for, maybe an average of 1 million copies per system (ps3/360/pc) which in itself is quite good. By the time he realizes that the millions that bought the Call of Duty games on Wii have also moved on to the Wii U, nobody will care for Rage.

I for one am happy with THQ's decision. I will hold out on buying Darksiders 2 for any other system other than for the Wii U. In fact I'm going to hold out on many games just to get them for the Wii U.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo, for some time, was more like, 'We have one direction, follow us.' Now it's more, 'We have all these directions, do what you need to do.' Making games is hard – if you have too much constraint on top of making games it's much more difficult. I think there is a big ambition behind [the Wii U] and we will follow Nintendo to succeed in this because we have the feeling that it's the right direction.

This just sums up everything wrong with Nintendo for like the last 15 years.  It is a big deal for them to address it.

[Morari]

First off, the 3D cannot be considered a hindrance, as it can be easily disabled at a hardware level.

So why does it exist then? It doesn't add anything, and turning it off improves your overall experience.

That's what I'm talking about. Why have touch screens and waggle controls when no one is really asking for it? Sure, there may be a handful of games that make great use of these features and absolutely could not exist without them. But really, is it worth sacrificing (or at the very least damaging) all of those other games that work with a more standard control device? I don't think it is.

These gimmicks are the equivalent of Nintendo standing in the corner jumping up and down, wailing their arms about. It gets everyone's attention, but quickly becomes annoying.

[NWR_insanolord]

First off, the 3D cannot be considered a hindrance, as it can be easily disabled at a hardware level.

So why does it exist then? It doesn't add anything, and turning it off improves your overall experience.

Some people feel it does add something, and wouldn't want to turn it off.

That's what I'm talking about. Why have touch screens and waggle controls when no one is really asking for it? Sure, there may be a handful of games that make great use of these features and absolutely could not exist without them. But really, is it worth sacrificing (or at the very least damaging) all of those other games that work with a more standard control device? I don't think it is.

How are the extra features on the Wii U (or DS or 3DS) hurting those games? Those systems include the standard control device as well as the new methods. If a developer wants to, they can ignore all the new stuff and just use the traditional controls, like lots of them did on the DS. You have somewhat of a point with Wii, but with everything else you have to blame the developers for not supporting the controls that the system includes.