Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Ceric]

Well, I guess Nintendo could replace Link with a brand new character, but they shouldn't do so for the sake of doing so. There would have to be a damn good reason otherwise, why do it? That doesn't inherently change anything because it'd just be Link in different skin which would be totally besides the point. I brought up a Wind Waker prequel because that's the only time it's stated in the entire series that Link doesn't appear. That's a perfect spot to place a new protagonist though I feel like Zelda taking up the mantle in Link's stead would be far more resonant with fans and totally worth the payoff.

Hmm, then again, I guess scratch that. Any place you could conceivably replace Link with a new character would be better off having Zelda herself replacing him.

You know why not swap their roles entirely.  Let Zelda save Link.  Have the Flamboyant Leader Link being saved by the Down to Earth Peasant Zelda.  Of course Zelda would be a descendant of the old Hyrulian Monarch line you find out later but, since that lineage has not been in power for generations it is unknown to her.  For added fun throw in the Trains from Spirit Tracks.

[NWR_insanolord]

How would you change the gameplay to fit the new character? Because if it's just the same game, but with Zelda instead of Link, it's a pointless change.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Aonuma talks Skyward Sword
-=Minor Spoilers Ahead=- but not really
http://www.1up.com/news/eiji-aonuma-wraps-zelda-skyward

- In this game, Zelda starts out as a childhood friend of Link's -- and not royalty. "She's not a princess this time," Aonuma said, "which is something I'll pretty much have to put forth right now in order to talk about this title. She's a childhood friend, but she goes away in the midst of the game and it's Link's job to search for her."

- The starting plot unfolds quite a bit differently from other Zeldas. "This game's plot is something like a school drama, you could say," Aonuma noted with a laugh. "The flying sequence at the E3 demo is Link competing against his classmates. One of them looks kind of a like a bad guy, as you saw, and he shows up in other ways in the game too, since he has a major thing for Zelda."

- Despite this, though, the game progresses in a somewhat similar fashion to a previous Zelda title. "The game starts in Skyloft, this city that's floating in the air, and you'll come back to this town multiple times," Aonuma said. "Things are always proceeding along in town, and in that respect it's very much like Majora's Mask. Like with Majora, there are a lot of game events involving the townspeople that get intertwined with the main story. Link, Zelda and their other friends all go to the same boarding school, and you've got teachers and a principal as well. It's a bit of a different setting from previous Zeldas."

- Aonuma's team is making a deliberate effort to give Link new items -- like the boomerang-beetle in the E3 demo -- early on in Skyward Sword. "With previous Zeldas," he said, "the common pattern was that the really neat items wouldn't show up until later on in the game. You need to have the basic item set or it wouldn't be Zelda, so the new items tended to get shunted to the latter part of the game. [Shigeru] Miyamoto said that had to change, like 'This is neat, let's bring it out from the start.' So a lot of neat new items will show up pretty early on."

- Is Skyloft the entire 'world' in this game? "Yes, it's only the people in Skyloft," Aonuma responded. "Nobody on there thinks anything of it, though, because living in Skyloft and flying around on birds is normal to them. They don't have any awareness of there being a mainland beneath the clouds and so forth -- that gets expanded upon once Zelda goes missing, and you get access to the areas under the clouds."

- Does everyone in Skyloft have their own personal avian transport? "It's the custom for each person to have one bird. Link has a red one, and it's actually a special and very rare breed of bird -- which is something that makes him get picked on, like 'Why do you get this fancy bird and we don't?!' But it turns out that you need that red bird in order to access the mainland. So the hand of fate gets involved here, like it always does in Zelda games sooner or later."

- Ghiraham, the enemy Link fought in the E3 demo's boss battle, is definitely going to be an important character in Skyward Sword. "The demo shows when you first meet him, and plainly he's looking down at Link, stopping his sword with his fingers and so forth," Aonuma noted. "In terms of story image he's kind of like Dark Link [from Ocarina of Time]; he sees right through Link's moves in battle. You can sort of swing your sword wildly and still hold your own against a lot of foes, but there's no way you can beat Ghiraham like that. You need to keep your distance and watch his moves, and it's something you'll need to change your strategy for. I think he's a pretty good change of pace as bosses go, and he'll change gradually throughout the game."

- Will Ganon show up? "This game talks about the birth of the Master Sword, and it touches on why Ganondorf showed up. If you play it, I think you'll get some understanding on that. It connects to Ocarina, so if you play Ocarina of Time 3D and move on to this game, I think you'll catch on to a lot of things."

- How's development going along? "The whole game is complete, and we're fine-tuning the balance right now. We were going to have it wholly done by around E3, but there's so much volume to it, neither I nor Miyamoto have gotten to fully play out every aspect. The non-English localizations are proceeding along now, and we're trying to make this a simultaneous worldwide release. You have to put Zelda all out at once or else the story's going to get spoiled -- although, really, there's a ton to enjoy here even if you know a little about the story beforehand."

I've been purposely not keeping up on this title as I already know I'm gonna buy it regardless and don't really want anything about it spoiled. Everything here sounds good to me and my Black Wii will be dusted off just for this game

[Ceric]

How would you change the gameplay to fit the new character? Because if it's just the same game, but with Zelda instead of Link, it's a pointless change.

...
Have the Flamboyant Leader Link being saved by the Down to Earth Peasant Zelda.
...

You don't have to change the game play because one is a girl and the other is a boy.  That's just sexist.  The reason to do this is to be able to tell a different story, have characters who are different, show a change in the world, free up peoples perceptions, etc.

By your own rule a lot of Genres are pointless.  One game in each should do fine.  Now how many games do you Own?

[NWR_insanolord]

It has nothing to do with their genders. If you're going to change the character, that should have some effect on the gameplay, or else it's a meaningless change.

What I'm saying is I'd rather the character still be Link and have the game change than have it star Zelda but be the same game. That's not to say you couldn't do both, and that's what I was asking: how do you make the change from Link to Zelda a meaningful one beyond just story conceits?

[Adrock]

Zelda uses magic (rather than magic items like Din's Fire). I'd start there.

[Ceric]

I never noticed it before but the pic BnM has what is up with Links Lips.

[King of Twitch]

What about a Zelda game where you go on adventures with Anju/Kafei? Or maybe a transporter accidentally switches their bodies.

[BeautifulShy]

Here is some more gameplay footage of the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8md9AaZiAPs&feature=player_embedded

Play is not that good but at least that way you can see more of the enemies attacks.

[Ceric]

Oh my, key turn piloting.  I hate that in any game its been in.  Not fond of how the UI is dominating that Right side.  Not digging only 1 item at a time I see in this video.   Is it just me or does that area feel claustrophobic even though its so open?

Edit:
AI Dowsing Rod Sword.  That is all.

[mac<censored>]

What is "key turn piloting"?

[BeautifulShy]

What is "key turn piloting"?

I think Ceric means the use of flight but has very precise movements. So you yourself have to be very exact with controlling whatever is flying.

The only other flight game I can think up that did it well was Wii Sports Resort. There may have been others but I haven't played them.

[Ceric]

What is "key turn piloting"?

I think Ceric means the use of flight but has very precise movements. So you yourself have to be very exact with controlling whatever is flying.

The only other flight game I can think up that did it well was Wii Sports Resort. There may have been others but I haven't played them.

Rayman Raving Rabbids does it as well.  Zak and Wiki have not flying but motions that are the key turn style if memory serves.  Their are a couple other games that use it but they are evading my memory at the moment.  I just know any time I have used it for anything its been annoying at best and broken at worst.  I haven't play Wii Sport Resort so it could have nailed it with the extra precision from the Motion Plus.

What is "key turn piloting"?

If you look at the how to steer graphic that is it but, basically hold  your WiiMote straight so its perpendicular to your TV screen.  Lean it left.  Lean it right.  That's Key turn.  Not to be mistaken with tilt which is holding the WiiMote NES style and tilting the whole unit left or right like Mario Kart or the Excite series.

Honestly rather just hold the WiiMote straight up and move it left and right like a guage or switch since Switching to NES hold isn't really feasible.

[Ian Sane]

So "key turn piloting" is motion control flight like those bullshit bird levels in Super Mario Galaxy 2?  I hope this is not at all an essential part of Skyward Sword.  Motion control flight is broken garbage.  In Super Mario Galaxy 2 I could at least skip those levels and still proceed.  If I have to get past some shitty waggle crap in order to proceed in Skyward Sword, well the game is just plain going to be unbeatable for me.  I'll drive to NOA headquarters myself and whip the disc at Reggie's face.  That alone could ruin the game for me.

Now if it's just a heart piece, **** it, I'll live.  I never 100% Zelda games anyway.  Thankfully on the Wii U, Nintendo will likely never bother with that crap anymore (in favour of broken Phantom Hourglass controls, the way my luck goes).

[Ceric]

I've been playing Spirit Tracks so I'll use that instead of PH.  If they just let me move with the D-Pad I would have no real problems with the rest of the controls.  Its just the many times when I do something like try to navigate my Boomerange and walk off a cliff...

[BeautifulShy]

Ian have you even played any Wii Motion + games? I'm just curious because if you go into Skyward Sword with the defeatest mindset you probably won't do that good even if you do have some experience with Motion +.

[ThePerm]

Ian is racist against motion control. I'm not a fan of using motion control for driving either though. I still hope Nintendo both includes a Wii mote and a Wii U controller and Nunchuck in an NES include everything sort of way.

[Ceric]

I couldn't find a single word that meant "Method of Control" to put an -ist on.  I guess he could be a Controllist...

[broodwars]

I'm not terribly fond of the "key turn piloting" control myself.  In Galaxy 2, I found the control to be rather finicky and hard to make precise movements.  I'd much rather use a control stick for the flying, which I know from past games works just fine.  For that matter, I'd prefer there to be button controls as well so I can use those when my arm gets tired of the Motion+ sword swinging, but I'm not going to get that either.

[Ian Sane]

Ian is racist against motion control.

Hey, I have equal dislike against both white and black Wii remotes.
 
A friend of mine has Wii Sports Resort so I have played with Motion+.  I wasn't really impressed but Wii Sports is not my kind of game to begin with so Wii Sports Resort was never going to win me over.
 
To me motion control is like you present me with a car and ask me to drive it.  The car doesn't have the standard pedals and steering wheel and instead has completely new control mechanics to learn.  However the car itself does nothing new that a normal car doesn't already do.  It's basically the same car with a new way to steer for no reason.  Every time I'm fucking around trying to steer with motion control what is happening on the screen is no fucking different then what I could do with an analog stick.  Same gameplay, different controls.  Not only do I have to learn a new way to control the game but the original controls were already incredibly efficient, intuitive and accurate.  Therefore if you change them for the sake of change you can only go down.  The ideal standard was already there.
 
The reason casuals have been impressed is because they don't know that Wii Sports Tennis is basically Pong with waggle.  They haven't seen the gameplay enough to realize that it's the same **** only with wonkier controls.  That's why core gamers see the Wii (and Move and Kinect) as a joke because they know the illusion.  They know it's just a button press mapped to a shake or an analog stick mapped to tilting or a mouse assigned to a pointer.
 
I can't help when playing these games but know how I COULD control it and how I would PREFER to control it that way but am denied the option because Nintendo knows if they provide the option it will expose the illusion.

[Stogi]

HAhahaAHa your posts get worse and worse every time!

The reason casuals have been impressed is because they don't know that Wii Sports Tennis is basically Pong with waggle.

*Applauds*

[NWR_insanolord]

Actually, in Pong you had to control your own movement. There you have it people, Wii Sports has less gameplay than Pong. [/Ian]

[mac<censored>]

I couldn't find a single word that meant "Method of Control" to put an -ist on.  I guess he could be a Controllist...

I thought Ian just hated everything...

Ok, not true -- he clearly doesn't hate multi-page rants.

[bustin98]

So, there was talk of doing something new with Link and Zelda. IGN has an article talking about doing different things and one part mentions playing as Ganon. You know you're gonna lose, but its how you lose that makes the game.

[SixthAngel]

I've said it before but Skyward sword is using Resort controls as their baseline.

Flying sounds a lot like the plane game in resort.  Whenever a new control method is revealed look at Resort first.