NWR Interactive > Podcast Discussion
RetroActive 48: Super Mario 64
Crimm:
Most of you are probably playing it right now anyway, so our 48th RetroActive will be Super Mario 64.
Comments posted here may be used in the relevant episode. Recording will happen late October.
pokepal148:
Here are all the posts from the waiting room thread I made because someone took forever to post the actual retroactive thread. There's some interesting discussion in there already so let's get this started with a bang.
--- Quote from: pokepal148 on September 28, 2020, 04:05:12 PM ---I'm playing through this on the DS version on the Wii U Virtual Console. It's been a real hoot. I like playing a version of Mario 64 wherere the camera isn't an absolute nightmare and the extra characters and stuff they added are real fun as well. I definitely want to dabble with the original more. I know I have a save from the Wii VC version that was in the castle's second floor that I could pull up to mess around with some of the later stages but honestly, the DS version having a functioning camera system really puts it over the edge for me.
The original game is impressive as hell for it's time, and I do feel it took a while for time to catch up with it, but as gaming has evolved more and more, it's age has started to show more and more.
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--- Quote from: Luigi Dude on September 29, 2020, 05:20:20 PM ---This is why it's too bad we didn't get a full remaster that had both the original and DS version present. The DS version has a lot of nice content added to the game, but the lack of analog controls is kind of a big deal. For the most part I played the game just fine with the D-Pad until I got to the later levels like Rainbow Cruise.
I've been meaning to play the game on my 3DS someday to see if using that systems control stick might solve some of my issues. Of course, you mentioning the Wii U Virtual Console is making me tempted to buy that version of the game since being able to use the Pro Controller analog stick might solve my issues as well. Even if the game still doesn't have full analog controls, at least using a joystick to move Mario should hopefully work better then the d-pad on original DS was.
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--- Quote from: NWR_insanolord on September 29, 2020, 05:36:43 PM ---I've spent significant time with the DS version on both 3DS and Wii U, and while it definitely controls better, it's still not great compared to the real thing. I enjoyed the extra stars, but the character switching was pretty clunky at times. Having to go back to Peach's room anytime you wanted to switch got really annoying.
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--- Quote from: pokepal148 on September 29, 2020, 07:21:07 PM ---If you play as yoshi, you can select the character hat you need on the touch screen at the start of a stage.
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--- Quote from: NWR_insanolord on September 29, 2020, 07:37:02 PM ---Yeah, but if you get hit you lose it, which can be pretty annoying in certain situations. They should have just let you switch between them at any time when you're in the castle.
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--- Quote from: pokepal148 on September 29, 2020, 11:05:38 PM ---Getting back to the actual game, 64 has a really weird difficulty curve. Literally the first time it throws moving platforms at you is over a bottomless pit in Whomp's Fortress and the missions in the game are not always based on difficulty. Rainbow Ride is a really good example of this with how one of it's hardest Stars is the first one on the list.
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--- Quote from: Stratos on October 01, 2020, 12:39:48 PM ---Yeah, I've been grinding through the last stars in the Switch version and its been a lesson in patience and fury. Maybe its using a joycon that is the problem, but everything just missed the mark on fine control. The camera was much harder to manage, and moving while the camera auto adjusted led to a lot of falls and mistakes. I'n down to just two Rainbow Ride stars and the final Bowser star before I beat the game and I'm surprised to say the ending can't come any sooner.
How much does the DS Mario 64 go for because I may pick that up for a later play through since I never got to experience the extra content?
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--- Quote from: Luigi Dude on October 01, 2020, 06:15:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: Stratos on October 01, 2020, 12:39:48 PM ---How much does the DS Mario 64 go for because I may pick that up for a later play through since I never got to experience the extra content?
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The DS version of Mario 64 can be bought on the Wii U eshop for $10. That's probably the cheapest and easiest way to buy it, and as Insanolord said, that version controls better then playing it on a real DS would.
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--- Quote from: nickmitch on October 04, 2020, 02:59:55 AM ---I've been playing this on Switch, mostly in handheld mode. I've been trying to do all stars for each world as I go along, and it's led to me getting into some frustrating situations where I'm fighting the camera and old game design instead of just moving on like I should. The jarring thing to me is how the level design felt vast and invigorating as a kid, but now it feels lacking and limiting in places. Getting through the levels is less fun while beating bosses is easier than ever. Still, the nostalgia runs deep, and there is a good game under all the archaism.
But this is definitely a game that needed the remake treatment, even over a remaster. The updated textures are appreciated, but the camera needs an overhaul. They also could've also fixed the smoke effect bug; although, something like that is far from a big deal and the game is probably more nostalgic with the bug. But other issues are more hinderance than charm.
It would've been nice to get an up-port of the DS remake, but that version doesn't really feel "definitive". Because they were once willing to go into the game and update the models for a remake, it's a bummer they haven't here. Making the existing enemies look like their modern counterparts and doing things like turning Big Boo into King Boo (and having him sound like King Boo) would've been greatly appreciated, as they were for the DS version, but especially in HD.
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--- Quote from: Stratos on October 05, 2020, 01:24:34 PM ---I tried to do it in order as well, but ran into two issues. One was the necessity of the caps for some early stars and another was my patience. I cleared most of the first three worlds in order, but the need to unlock the caps threw me off, especially since I was refusing to look up help and only rely on the game itself and my memory and I had forgotten where the metal cap room was located. I then threw all attempts at going "in order" to the wind when I kept dying due to the finicky camera and twitchy controls causing me to waltz off ledges. In the end the last leg of the game turned into a real slog and I could not for the life of me toss Bowser into the mines when I remember having pin-point accuracy.
I'm glad I've finished and moved on to sunshine. The camera and controls of Mario are MUCH better in direct comparison. There are still a few odd quirks (I can't go into a near-1st person view to have Mario look around anymore?) but nothing as frustrating as the camera and controls in 64.
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ClexYoshi:
I may be retired from listening to Radio-Free Nintendo, but lucky you! I played Super Mario 64 earlier in the year because my Girlfriend had never really sat through anything more than 0 stars speedruns!
I ended up playing the game specifically using the SGI project, a set of model and textures for the DirectX12 version of Super Mario 64 that tries to make Super Mario 64 resemble the SGI-made renders that were made for promotional materials for Super Mario 64. It also incorperates a free camera that works perfectly with a right analogue stick or mouselook, if you're some sort of heathen who desires to play Super Mario 64 on a keyboard/mouse control scheme.
Obviously, though, I got a N64 for Christmas of 1996, after specifically seeing Super Mario 64 at a Toys R' Us that my dad and I went to on a lark during our usual bus route (at the time, dad had his license revoked for DUI, so we'd take the bus up to the mall or Walmart or such.) and having that outer courtyard that was effectively just this giant playground to mess around with Mario and the way he changed from his 8-bit and 16-bit incarnations was a brilliant choice. the ambience of the birds chirping and the waterfall added to this idea of being able to just... play around, like one might play around at the Jungle Gym at my grade school. the fact that this memory 24 years on is so vivid in my mind stands as a testament to how strong of a design choice hubs to run around in was.
and really, I'm not sure how I should approach discussing Super Mario 64. Should I hit on the powerful memories of a childhood that formed with Super Mario 64 as a basis? Should I talk about the game's eternal zeitgeist? the reverence to which people regard it and the ways people have peeled back the layers of it's depth and complexity? Should I talk about TASers like Panenkohek, who both created an insane meme and has helped educate many on the inner workings of Super Mario 64's coding? should I talk about how Cheese at the beginning of 2020 won a jackpot of $10,000 for being the first person to beat Super Mario 64 with 120 stars in under 1 hour and 39 minutes while at a speedrunning event with a stomach flu? Or should I talk about my thoughts of playing this newfangled version for PC, only possible thanks to tireless efforts of people who managed to decompile Super Mario 64 back into it's source code via reverse engineering efforts?
While I mull over this, I hope many people post here. I am interested to read what folks have to say about this game.
Shaymin:
It took me about a week to get all 120 stars in the 3D All Stars, which is the first time I ever did it on a console (the last time I did it was on an emulator in like, 2007). Most of it is due to the sheer insanity of the stars on the top level: Tick Tock Clock, Rainbow Ride, and especially Wing Mario over the Rainbow.
It usually takes me a few attempts to get the red coins in the level where the Wing Cap unlocks, but I spent about an hour and a half on Wing Mario over the Rainbow because the flight controls in this game are inscrutable at best. I'm not sure if the N64 stick would handle it better, but the fact that you fall outside the castle when you blow the stage made it worse.
The other problem part was the 100 coins stars - Tick Tock Clock's was bad, but Rainbow Ride's required me to use the stick from the Split Pad Pro to complete it undocked (for the wall jumps after the blue coin switch). So of course, they made every shine in Sunshine as annoying as that.
The first three floors of the castle are still fun, but the top floor is enough to drive a completionist to drink.
ClexYoshi:
I got my first 120 when I was a kid, with an assist from my cousin for Jolly Rodger Bay, as I was intensely afraid of the eel as an 8-year older. some of the 100 coin stars I do remember being pretty tight affairs as a kid, but... honestly?
Super Mario 64 is pretty cozy. Yes, Tik Tok Clock has some devious stuff in it if you're afraid of taking the spill all the way down, but Rainbow Ride is not nearly as bad as I remember it, 100 coins or otherwise. Granted, It should be noted that i played with the unlocked camera recently, so maybe the camera doesn't make it as cozy as I thought, but I seem to have only sharpened my skills when it comes to Super Mario 64, and it felt like death rarely would happen. I probably can chock this up to considerations the level designers made to accommodate this wild new 3D and general knowledge I have of the game.
Heck, I may have even showed off to my friends I was streaming for and performed a BLJ to skip the 50 star door and do some Tik-tok clock action early! (sorry to you suckers playing the Shindou version on your Nintendo Switch. :()
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