Topic: Xenosaga 2: Jenseits Von Gut Und Bose

[DrForester]

Well, the official web site for Xenosaga 2:  Jenseits Von Gut Und Bose (Beyond Good and Evil) is now up.

http://www.namco.co.jp/cs/ps2/xenosaga2/

while the official premire of the game isn't for a few more days a few interesting things have been revealed.

Kunihiko Tanaka will not be doing the character designs for Xenosaga 2, dispite his work on both Xenogears and Xenosaga 1.  The new character designs are much more life life and far less resemble anime characters now.  The official site (Linked above) will let you take a look at the new character designs.

Another shocking newcomer is Yuki Kajiura at the helm of Xenosaga 2's music.  Yasunori Mitsuda will not be doing the music for Xenosaga 2 as he did with both Xenosaga 1 and Xenogears.  Yuki Kajiura's works include composition of both the .hack//SIGN anime series (not the .hack games), and the anime series Noir.  Though not confirmed it is safe to assume Jonne Hogg, the vocalists of Xenogears and Xenosaga's vocal theme will not be back.  Vocal duties will probably be handeled by wither Emily Bindiger (Vocalist in the .hack//SIGN and NOIR series) or possibly even Kajiura's group SEE-SAW who performed .hack//SIGN's opening theme.

Xenosaga's story will involve the cast from Xenosaga 1 returning, and will also feature a lot more focus on Shion's brother Jin.  It would seem that this is the final nail in the Xenogears cofin, as Xenogears episode 2 would have taken place after the Eldridge crash (Though some have continued to specualte that 10 years after the Eldridge crash would be a boring setting for a game).  Xenosaga 2 will take place before the Eldridge crash (Assuming there is even an Eldridge crash in the Xenosaga timeline).

Keep an eye out in the next few days for news from the Xenosaga 2 premire in Japan, and hopefully a nice 8 minute trailor like Xenosaga 1 had.  

[Grey Ninja]

You are making me really sad that I have not yet had an opportunity to play Xenosaga Episode 1....

[nitsu niflheim]

Play it.  It is worth it.  I can't wait for this game.

[Grey Ninja]

nitsu, I can afford to rent a PS2, but as I don't have a credit card, I would have to use cash as collateral when renting it.  That would require a $300 deposit, which I don't have.  

I might just have to wait for PCSX2 to come of age.

[DrForester]

game watch updated with tons of pictures from the trailor.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20030721/ep2.htm

No video of the trailor is avalible yet.

IGN also has a story about the pictures up

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/429/429594p1.html

[joeamis]

xenosaga is the best rpg of this generation of consoles

[rpglover]

episode 2 is looking alright but i liked the anime influence in the xenogears and xenosaga characters more than this life-like look
i have heard that they are trying to shorten the length of movies and cut scenes in the game to allow for more gameplay time
hopefully they have more music in the game too- the score was unbelieveable but you only heard the music in cut scenes or important areas

[Grey Ninja]

Why has this thread returned to taunt me once more?  ARGH!

[joeamis]

just think greyninja when ps2's price goes way down in say 2 years you will able to experience
xenosaga, which will by then be a great classic rpg

and since the xenosaga series is going to span 6 games over 3 different generations of platforms
you will definitely want to experience the first game in the series, xenosaga, to know the entire story.

and with xenosaga 2 already being made it looks like they will fulfill this prophecy
unlike the ogre battle series claim...

[Gup]

What I don't get is why developer(Monolith Soft) claims the series was meant to have six episodes.  Why start at five; then go 1, 2, 3. . .  MS should just admit they're just using their Xeno license instead of, "It was meant to be six episode story."

Another thing that bothers me about Episode 1 was nothing happens.  A couple hours into the game(like 5 or 6), Shion and co. say let's go to Second Militia.  When you get there, the game ends.??  The story so far is probably one-sixth of Xenogears'.

I'd also like to say MS fully detailed some beautiful looking characters(atleast 10 of them) that showed up for maybe three minutes each(no wonder they needed a dual-sided DVD).

After saying all that, I still enjoyed the game, but it was a waste of potential.  I'm looking forward to Episode 2, but I don't see why MS is changing the main character when the original is still alive and kickin'.

[Grey Ninja]

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just think greyninja when ps2's price goes way down in say 2 years you will able to experience xenosaga, which will by then be a great classic rpg

I don't buy a PS2, not because I can't afford one, but because I am a Nintendo fanboy.  To me, that means that I will never ever buy a system from a competitor.  In the case of the PSX, that was a VERY hard thing to do, but with the PS2, I am fairly unnaffected by it.  Most of their software isn't really anything special.  Xenosaga is the one great exception.

I will play Xenosaga one day when PCSX2 comes of age.  It's looking like that might be a year or so down the road to me.  I can wait for that.

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What I don't get is why developer(Monolith Soft) claims the series was meant to have six episodes. Why start at five; then go 1, 2, 3. . . MS should just admit they're just using their Xeno license instead of, "It was meant to be six episode story."

Square still owns the Xenogears trademark.  That's the reason Monolith is being very careful to avoid any direct reference to it.  It's thought that when it comes time to remake Xenogears (Part 5), Monolith will go back on that claim, as Square's right to the name will be expired at that time.

As for Xenogears being part 5, I generally compare Xenogears to Star Wars.  George Lucas started with Part 4, and eventually worked backwards.  However, unlike Lucas, the Monolith team actually stated in the end credits of Xenogears that it was in fact Part 5.  (A New Hope had Part 4 added to the opening credits in the second VHS release of the movie, as well as some other things)

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Another thing that bothers me about Episode 1 was nothing happens. A couple hours into the game(like 5 or 6), Shion and co. say let's go to Second Militia. When you get there, the game ends.?? The story so far is probably one-sixth of Xenogears'.

Having not played the game, I wish I hadn't read that.  However, I am once again reminded of Star Wars.  Many people hated Episode I for similar reasons, but I liked the movie because I saw it how I think it was intended to be seen.  As an introduction to a 6 part saga.

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and since the xenosaga series is going to span 6 games over 3 different generations of platforms you will definitely want to experience the first game in the series, xenosaga, to know the entire story.

Having played Part 5, I think I have a pretty good idea of how the story goes.    But I still want to play it and see it for myself.  Kind of like Star Wars Episode 3.  I know about 75% of what happens in that movie, yet I am still just as stoked to see it.

[DrForester]

there are no issues with the Xengoears licence, and I woudln't be surprised if Namco really DOES own the Xenogears licence.  If they had to be careful, then Xenosaga would not have had TWO things from Xenogears in it.

Xenosaga 1 had both Zohar, which is from Xenogears, and Abel, who was the first incarnation of Fei, and looked just like Abel was supposed too. Either Namco owns the Xenogears licence, or they and Square have an agreement where Square doesn't care.

As for the story, no one can say what it will bring.  All 6 episdoes in Xenogears were detaield in Perfect Works, the 300+ page art book/companion to Xenogears.  Xenosaga 1 loosly followed the outline for Episode 1, Xenosaga 2 isn't even CLOSE to the what Xengoears episode 2 should be.  Xenogears ep. 2 would take palce about 12 years after the eldridge crashed on the planet, Xenosaga 2 is taking place before that event, assuming that even is even going to take place in the Xenosaga timeline.

it's hard to say where the series will go.  I do think it's obvious that Namco and Monolithsoft either own the Xengoears licence, or have a deal with Square.

For reference, according to Perfect Works Ep 3 would take place 4000 years after the Eldrigde crash, during the Zeiobem civilization, who created Emerelda.  Ep. 4 would take place during the great war 500 eyar prior to events in Xengoears, ep 6 would take place shortly after Xengoears.


and Grey Ninja, you're an idiot.  Not buying a PS2 or PSX just because it's not Nintendo, sorry but that's just sad.

[Grey Ninja]

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and Grey Ninja, you're an idiot. Not buying a PS2 or PSX just because it's not Nintendo, sorry but that's just sad.

In your opinion.  Please take your flames elsewhere, as I don't want to deal with that self-righteous nonsense.

Just because you don't buy a Mustang because it's not a Chevy, or just because you don't worship God because you aren't a Christian, or just because you don't buy Pepsi because it's not Coke, does that make you an idiot?

[Gup]

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Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
Having not played the game, I wish I hadn't read that.  However, I am once again reminded of Star Wars.  Many people hated Episode I for similar reasons, but I liked the movie because I saw it how I think it was intended to be seen.  As an introduction to a 6 part saga.

The difference between Xeno and Star Wars is that in SW, each episode were equal in terms of storytelling.  

Xenogears has way more story than Xenosaga Ep 1. . . WAY MORE STORY.
Xenogears ended, Xenosaga Ep 1 continues and will likely do the same after Ep 2

As for SW 1 &2, Anakin ruined both for me and the way Darth Maul and the bounty hunter got killed.

[Grey Ninja]

Heh.  Anakin isn't any worse than Luke.    The supporting characters are still awesome, and that's what counts.  I can't imagine Jedi Knights better than Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, or Samuel "Bad Motherf*cker" Jackson.  The magic of Star Wars has not been lost, and that's really what counts in my opinion.

Back to Xenosaga though...  I will fight with you more on that after I have played the game.    I have heard it was REALLY long from other people, so I am somewhat mystified by your comments.

The thing is, Xenogears was kind of a makeshift saga in itself.  Monolith didn't know if they would ever get the chance to finish making their grand vision, and they sort of ran out of money and time, so they just told as much story as the possibly could in Xenogears.  I don't think it was the way it was originally intended to be shown.  That fact alone could be why Monolith is telling a shorter story in Xenosaga.

[Zelda]

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I don't buy a PS2, not because I can't afford one, but because I am a Nintendo fanboy.

*stabs you* You're missing out on some great games because of your fanboyism! I saw the light and you should too

[Grey Ninja]

Who says I am missing out on the games.  I can perfectly well accept that they are there.  I just see no reason to sacrifice my principles for a couple of games.

During the N64 era, I watched game after game that I would be going nuts to play slip by me.  I stayed with Nintendo to the end, and now I get to play games from both systems without ever having sacrificed my principles.  The thing is, the PSX was a system that catered to gamers like me.  The games on the system were exactly what I liked to play.  It housed some of my all time favorites, such as Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Parasite Eve, Valkyrie Profile, Dragon Quest VII, Final Fantasy Tactics, Gran Turismo 2, and many more.

The thing is, if I were to go out and buy a PS2, I would buy exactly one game for it.  Xenosaga.

Trust me.  I am not missing out on much.

It's not that I don't recognize the merits of other systems.  It's not like I don't play their games.  It's just that I don't buy them.

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: Gup

Another thing that bothers me about Episode 1 was nothing happens.  A couple hours into the game(like 5 or 6), Shion and co. say let's go to Second Militia.  When you get there, the game ends.??  The story so far is probably one-sixth of Xenogears'.

I'd also like to say MS fully detailed some beautiful looking characters(atleast 10 of them) that showed up for maybe three minutes each(no wonder they needed a dual-sided DVD).

After saying all that, I still enjoyed the game, but it was a waste of potential.  I'm looking forward to Episode 2, but I don't see why MS is changing the main character when the original is still alive and kickin'.

they goto second militia and the game just ends? WTH are you talkin about?  
the story is long, the 20 minute cinemas tell alot of story...
who wants to play as the main character in every rpg, you can only bring their personality so far without them becoming stale, i welcome this change!

what's PCSX2?
just because you don't buy Pepsi because it's not Coke, does that make you an idiot? YES lol

The thing is, if I were to go out and buy a PS2, I would buy exactly one game for it. Xenosaga.
WTH, the PS2 has many games worth buying.

if you're so concerned that you may actually give sony 25 bucks of profit by buying a PS2, and 15 bucks of profit by buying xenosaga, then why don't you just buy them used?  

[Grey Ninja]

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what's PCSX2?

A promising PS2 emulator.  It's starting to show menus in some games, and it will play most homebrew games.  I got PS2 Invaders working the other day.  

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WTH, the PS2 has many games worth buying.

Yes, but I wouldn't buy them.  I might be interested in checking out Fatal Frame, DMC, Wild Arms 3, and Onimusha, but really there's not a whole lot out there for me at present.

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if you're so concerned that you may actually give sony 25 bucks of profit by buying a PS2, and 15 bucks of profit by buying xenosaga, then why don't you just buy them used?

It's the principle of the thing.

[joeamis]

ok i guess i understand your viewpoint, but isn't it worse in principle to support piracy?

i mean, you pirate sony games because you don't want to support them.
but by supporting piracy you're doing more damage to nintendo than if you bought sony products.

(not directly because it's ps2 piracy, but supporting any piracy in general brings more piracy to every videogame company, it's the simple supply and demand philosophy)

 

[Grey Ninja]

PSX/PS2 emulators play the original discs or CDRs, or ISOs.  Just because I am looking forward to an emulator doesn't mean that I am going to pirate the games.

In all likelihood, I will buy a used copy of Xenosaga.  I did the same for Xenogears.  I certainly ain't keeping a 9GB ISO on my hard drive for a long length of time, and it isn't possible to burn a 9GB DVD, and I hate rips.

[joeamis]

yes but emulators=piracy
an emulator is a pirated copy of the system console because they take the consoles specs and peformance and reproduce it without giving the company the royalties.

you may not be pirating the games, but you're pirating the system

[Grey Ninja]

No I am not.  Emulators are perfectly legal, and there's nothing wrong with them.  You use an emulator just to access this site half the time.  Some of the ads around here are Java based, which uses a theoretical system as a base.  It's universally compatable cross-platform because the Java Virtual Machine emulates that system.

When playing Ocarina of Time on GameCube, you are using an N64 emulator written for GameCube.

Linux users will often use Wine to run Windows programs.  Wine is a Windows emulator written for Linux.

I use a GBA emulator to develop my own software for the system.

Tell me how emulators = piracy in any of those cases.

[DrForester]

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In your opinion.  Please take your flames elsewhere, as I don't want to deal with that self-righteous nonsense.

Just because you don't buy a Mustang because it's not a Chevy, or just because you don't worship God because you aren't a Christian, or just because you don't buy Pepsi because it's not Coke, does that make you an idiot?

that's not really the same.

A better comparison would be refusing to buy a mountain dew becasue pepsi makes it and not coke.  If you didn't like coke, or didn't like Mountain Dew, that'd be one thing.   If you thought the PS2 has no games worth having on it, that'd be one thing.  Not buying something just becasue a certain comany DIDN'T make it, again, that's just sad in my view.

Maybe you just said something wrong or i'm taking it wrong.  Is there any other reason than "it's not nintendo" as to why you never bought a PSX or PS2?

oh, and emulators = piracy becasue emulators allow you to play pirated games, thus allowing piracy to continue.
 

[HiTmaN]

I find nothing wrong with piracy. I love my Windows XP, Office XP, Adaware 6, Ahead Nero, my burned DC games, my emulators I love it all and I am glad I didn't have to pay a penny for it. I don't care what anyone says, if you have $100 to go buy something go ahead, for those of us who dont theres an easy way to get what you want.

Back to the topic, what exactly is Xenosaga, is it the kind of RPG that makes you just say....WOW. I haven't had that feeling in a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

[Grey Ninja]

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oh, and emulators = piracy becasue emulators allow you to play pirated games, thus allowing piracy to continue.

You could say the exact same thing about CD-Burners, Cassette Recorders, and DVD-ROMs.  Emulators are easily abused, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.  Please actually back up your arguments, rather than just saying you are right.

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Maybe you just said something wrong or i'm taking it wrong. Is there any other reason than "it's not nintendo" as to why you never bought a PSX or PS2?

The same reason I don't buy Pepsi.  It's not Coke.  Shouldn't that be immediately obvious?  I am making a statement.  Same reason I don't buy MS Office, or don't use AIM whenever possible.  

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I find nothing wrong with piracy. I love my Windows XP, Office XP, Adaware 6, Ahead Nero, my burned DC games, my emulators I love it all and I am glad I didn't have to pay a penny for it. I don't care what anyone says, if you have $100 to go buy something go ahead, for those of us who dont theres an easy way to get what you want.

I hope someone mugs you someday so you can see what it feels like.  After all, he didn't want to actually go out and earn his money, as that was too hard wasn't it?

[HiTmaN]

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I hope someone mugs you someday so you can see what it feels like. After all, he didn't want to actually go out and earn his money, as that was too hard wasn't it?

Ok...um...that was the most pointless and stupidest post I have read to date. Mugging and piracy are not related. I didnt go up to Bill Gates beat him up and steal a copy of MS Office and XP. I simply typed Windows XP into my Kazaa search and downloaded it.

I pirate because I feel these companies have not earned their money. Getting millions for selling some software is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. There are REAL people with REAL jobs doing things for us everyday and get paid and treated like crap. Pirate on!  

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
No I am not.  Emulators are perfectly legal, and there's nothing wrong with them.  You use an emulator just to access this site half the time.  Some of the ads around here are Java based, which uses a theoretical system as a base.  It's universally compatable cross-platform because the Java Virtual Machine emulates that system.

When playing Ocarina of Time on GameCube, you are using an N64 emulator written for GameCube.

Linux users will often use Wine to run Windows programs.  Wine is a Windows emulator written for Linux.

I use a GBA emulator to develop my own software for the system.

Tell me how emulators = piracy in any of those cases.

explain how we use an emulator to access this site, 'half the time'.
ofcourse it is not piracy when nintendo creates an emulation of their own copyrighted software, they own the copyrights...  

regarding using an emulator to play legally owned software (which is exactly what you say you will do) the IDSA [International Digital Software Association] had this to say:

Using an emulator with legally owned software:

"If the sole purpose of an emulator is to allow the playing of a console game on a PC, and the owner of the copyrights in that console game has not authorized the performance, display, or derivative work created when a console game is played on a PC, then the creation and use of that emulator constitutes a contributory infringement of the copyrights in the console game."

The Interactive Digital Software Association also claims:

"Programmers who are properly licensed to create games for a game console use a hardware emulator, which uses proprietary code in combination with a modified console system and other specialized hardware," according to a statement from the trade group.

"In contrast, most emulators that are freely available today are merely software emulators that have no role in the creation of properly licensed video games, and therefore have the exclusive purpose of infringing copyrights," it said.

Nintendo spokeswoman Beth Llewelyn had this to say about N64 emulators:
"It promotes continued piracy."

the dictionary defines piracy as: "one who makes use of or reproduces the work, esp., the literary work, of another, illicitly or without permission."

a form of piracy doesn't always have to go against the current laws in place.
i'm sure in the future dictionaries will also include programming code and distributing art entertainment(music, etc) under the especially part.
if you read the disclaimers for PS2 games, you will see that they say: "Licensed for play on the Playstation 2 computer entertainment systems with the (insert NTSC, PAL, etc) designation only."
not only is this to say you cannot use it on other designations, but that it is to be used on playstation 2 systems only.

and the only reason emulators for ps2 don't use roms is because the games are too large.  

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: HiTmaN

Back to the topic, what exactly is Xenosaga, is it the kind of RPG that makes you just say....WOW. I haven't had that feeling in a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

most definitely yes

[Zeth]

OMG IF I GET A PS2 MY FANBOYISM WILL B ERASED!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111111111111

[KDR_11k]

Joe: You know the IDSA is most likely a group of suit terrorists that would like you to not know/give up your rights for their profit? The RIAA says there is no fair use, while the law says otherwise.

Most EULAs violate laws. E.g.: Many state you may not reverse engineer a software, while the laws of France explicitly grant you this freedom. So not everything in these agreements is legally binding. BTW, when does one legally agree to the EULA of a console game? It's clear with the PC, but what about the console? Do I agree when I fire the game up? Do I when I hand over my money to the clerk at the store? And what with those games that don't even have an EULA? This area of law is pretty grey and it's not clear whether these EULAs are even legal.

Example: You bought a GC game which came without manual (let's say, used.). Now, the disk contains no info about any licenses, neither does the packaging. That means, you are not aware that there are any contracts involved and probably even own the copy. In case of Metroid Prime (didn't check the other ones) even the manual says nothing about licenses...

That licensed for PS2 probably means they acquired a license from Sony to use the PS2 platform, just as you see "Licensed by Nintendo" on GBA games.

Emulators aren't covered by copyright AFAIK. While a patent covers the way of working (probably a hardware implementation), the copyright is merely for the device itself. Unless you build a PS2 (or paint it or whatever) it's not a copyright thing. I'm not sure, but most countries have additional laws for interoperability as well. Either way, as long as you didn't know you're commiting a crime, the courts will probably let you go free.

Hitman: You know, the BSA could force PGC to give 'em your IP number, then force your ISP to give them your name, address, etc. and sue the hell outta you, whereby the courts would only get involved in the last step? Now you know why I hate Sony, MS and all other members of BSA, MPAA and RIAA...

[Grey Ninja]

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Ok...um...that was the most pointless and stupidest post I have read to date. Mugging and piracy are not related. I didnt go up to Bill Gates beat him up and steal a copy of MS Office and XP. I simply typed Windows XP into my Kazaa search and downloaded it.

I pirate because I feel these companies have not earned their money. Getting millions for selling some software is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. There are REAL people with REAL jobs doing things for us everyday and get paid and treated like crap. Pirate on!

You seriously sicken me.  Never speak to me again.

[Bloodworth]

Ok kids, play nice.