Topic: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sony is working on PlayStation 4
What has been taking them so long? Café is 2012, MS has plans to be ready before end of 2012... and Sony is just starting on PS4?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-26-sony-is-working-on-playstation-4

Sony has confirmed that work on a "future platform" to follow the PS3 "is already under way".

Sony's executive vice president and chief financial officer Masaru Kato made the revelation on a conference call to investors today. He was asked to explain increased research and development (R&D) costs.

"For the home equipment the PS3 still has a product life," he said, "but this is a platform business, so for the future platform - when we'll be introducing what product I cannot discuss that - but our development work is already under way, so the costs are incurred there."

Kato's comments are in direct contrast those of Sony Computer Entertainment boss Kaz Hirai's. Hirai said, three months ago in March, that "a near-future PS4 or next-generation home console is not something that we are even debating now".

Hirai stressed that Sony wasn't "even at the half-way point" in PS3's lauded 10-year plan.

This console cycle may be destined to last longer than previous generations, but there are already rumours of top-tier publishing partners receiving prototype dev kits of Microsoft's new Xbox.

Meanwhile Nintendo has plans to formerly unveil Wii 2 - codenamed Project Cafe - at E3 next month.

Sony might be left out in the cold this time as xStream720 gets all the multiplat love.

[Ceric]

Oh the irony if the PS3 becomes the PS2 of the next generation.  I'm not so surprise to see an uptick on the R&D since its clear Nintendo is making their move.

[Ian Sane]

With Cafe due to be shown at E3, it makes sense that we're hearing about successors for the other consoles as well.  The PS4 might be years away but it looks good for Sony to have it be known that something is on the way so that they don't like they're behind the times while Nintendo goes forward.  The goal is to convince us not to get all excited about Cafe because Sony the PS4 is on the way (in a couple years) and will top it (or so they'll imply).  Hell, Sony did this with the Dreamcast.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sony: No Plans For PS3-type Investment For Future Consoles
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/05/27/sony_earnings/

Sony's massive initial expenditures for the PlayStation 3 lead to years of losses. This is something that apparently won't be repeated for future platforms.

During an investors briefing today (via Nikkei), Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato was asked if Sony expects its games division to continue to maintain its recent profitability. Different from the major losses of Sony Group as a whole, the company's games business turned profitable over the fiscal year.

Kato noted that the main factor in the losses for the past few years has been the big difference in sales price and cost for the PS3 system. Sony even spent billions to create its own semi conductor facilities.

This is something that won't happen in the future. The semiconductor business is changing, said Kato. "It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3."

So there will be no $900 PS4 being sold for $600 this time around. But if Sony is just now increasing their R&D budget towards locking down specs for the next generation..... wouldn't that mean they are atleast 2 years out from having a chip ready to go unless they are using something off the shelf?

If they have been building a chip this whole time, then why the sudden budget increase unless they are just now pushing everything out of passive research and into aggressive?  and even still, do you think it will lead to a rushed late 2013 launch following launches of both the CafĂ© & 720?

With Cafe due to be shown at E3, it makes sense that we're hearing about successors for the other consoles as well.  The PS4 might be years away but it looks good for Sony to have it be known that something is on the way so that they don't like they're behind the times while Nintendo goes forward.  The goal is to convince us not to get all excited about Cafe because Sony the PS4 is on the way (in a couple years) and will top it (or so they'll imply).  Hell, Sony did this with the Dreamcast.

Actually, we've been hearing details about the X720 since before the Café. There was an article on the chip they chose back in Dec of last year I believe.
Xbox720 - that's 2 full revolutions - to hit in 2012? ~Rumor/Speculation Thread~
mix that with the comments from the AMD guy over on NeoGAF (see the rumor consolidation in my sig) and we've had more info about X720 before we knew anything about Café.[/size][/font]

[Ian Sane]

With the PS3 being such a beast how does Sony top it without an underwhelming "two PS3's duct taped together" situation?  The PS3 was a dumb approach but they have to justify the existence of a new console some way.  I don't think a minor upgrade is going to fly.  Yeah the Wii did it but it also turned off the market that KNEW it was a meager upgrade in the process and it relied on an innovative gimmick.  Sony already released the Move as a peripheral so merely including it wouldn't fly as a new system and I don't think Sony can come up with a neat gimmick like Nintendo can.  They just don't have it in them.

[Oblivion]

PS3? A beast? I smell bullshit. It's starting to show it's age. Sure, Battlefield 3 may be awesome or whatever, but I'm waiting for Unreal's new engine. PS4 here I come.

[Chozo Ghost]

It always goes without saying that the three console makers always have their next console in the works. They pretty much begin work on the next console from the moment the last one enters into production. We may only start hearing about it now, but needless to say they've been in the works since 2006/2007.

[lolmonade]

Count me out.  Maybe it's because I don't play many PC games and don't have a state-of-the-art rig, but I don't see the need for an upgrade.  Nintendo was the only one that was in a dire need to get to the current console industry standard for the sake of 3rd party support, but until I know a hardware refresh will result in a compelling new gaming experience, I'm sure I'll be sitting out this new generation until midway through like this past generation (with the exception of the Wii).

[Stogi]

BnM, where are you getting the R&D numbers?

I think there is some confusion over the news. What is being reported basically is that building their own semi-conductor plant for the PS3 was a bad investment. They give no word on specs or even other investments. Simply that they are going to be smart from now on. While you can translate that to a meager PS4, I think that just means a more realistic product for the market which is very reminiscent of Microsofts business plan.

[oohhboy]

It wasn't necessarily a bad investment building that semi-conductor plant, it was their mistaken belief that the PS3 would sell like crack and that they could extent their investment by expanding the uses for the CELL in other products. Of course none of it panned out leading to a massive over investment that effectively went idle. What made the plant a bad investment was when they couldn't leverage it to do anything else while paying a premium on their own internal product.

I believe they have increased their R&D because at least internally, they no longer believe in the "Ten Year Plan" which they had initially planned for and executed till now. Anybody with half a brain could have told them such a plan wouldn't work and now they have to do a crash program. Not the best way to go about things.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't think I said anything about the power of a PS4 in this thread or mentioned any specific numbers related to R&D.

What I did do was relate a PS4 to how much the PS3 was reported to cost and what it sold for at launch.
If you are referring to the "multiplat love" comment, I merely meant that N & MS will be out around end of 2012/early 2013 while Sony may not make an appearance till late 2014 if they are just now ramping up their R&D budget towards putting together a next gen system(unless they are gonna use pre-existing parts again). Console userbase lead may be the deciding factor of lead development in that case since all 3 consoles will probably be relatively close in power levels.

But once again, there was a rumor that Sony was planning on a PS3.5 console for next gen due to financial circumstances and cost of future proofing for another 10 year plan.


p.s. PS2 is on a 11 year plan and running right now. intentional or not, that is impressive.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Sony & IBM creating new PPC Cell based chip that should be in PS4
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/Industry/F5C6F8A6?page=1

Sony, who announced a $3 Billion plus loss last, week is pinning their future on a brand new processor which some are speculating will lead to a new Playstation 4.

What we have been told is that Sony is working on a very fast processor which is being developed with IBM, who was the original architect with Sony and Toshiba of the Cell processor, which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years.

IBM sources claim that the new multi core PowerPC processor, which Big Blue, has spent several years developing is now part of a joint development project with the Japanese company.

Sony recently moved to buy back the Toshiba Cell factory in Nagasaki for $600 million with some tipping that this will be used to manufacture the processor for both Sony Toshiba and IBM devices.

The new 32nm Cell processor is tipped to be capable of up to 16 SPEs which is twice as fast as the current Cell processor according to IBM leaks.

Japanese sources claim that Sony is gearing up to manufacture the Cell processor in bulk with some analysts tipping that the new processor will also appear in Sony notebooks and built into new Sony Bravia TVs.

Intel sources have said that they are also working on a new processor that will be ideal for future gaming consoles as well as for use in devices that are both gaming console and media hubs.

Is Sony to finally realize that multi-device cell processing cluster that was talked about back before PS3?

And I also remember IBM saying they were already hard at work on chips for both Nintendo and Sony, so maybe this cell based PPC tech has also made it's way into the Café.

Also are there any tech heads out there that can break down what 16 SPE's means and how that compares to PS3 for the rest us?

[BranDonk Kong]

How in the Hell did you make this post only 16 seconds after your other post about the new Cell chip?

[BlackNMild2k1]

I actually posted it here. the forum made it a new thread somehow through a browser error.
I just hit submit again since it didn't appear to work the first time.


i also wanted to point something out that didn't sound right in this rumor article

the original architect with Sony and Toshiba of the Cell processor, which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years.

I wasn't aware that 360 was Cell powered. but that's probably because it's not..... or was it?

[Adrock]

I wasn't aware that 360 was Cell powered. but that's probably because it's not..... or was it?

New book from IBMers: Sony suckered into funding Xbox chip

I read this a while ago. Apparently, ideas/work were shared between the groups building each chip. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I wonder if Sony was "suckered" into partially funding Nintendo's processor this time too or if it is a completely different PPC than the one Sony is currently working on.

[Chozo Ghost]

How in the Hell did you make this post only 16 seconds after your other post about the new Cell chip?

I think it should be obvious by now that BnM has superhuman abilities when it comes to posting rumors.

[oohhboy]

I can't believe they are doing the same thing twice. Why the hell are they still pissing around with the CELL?! Trade most of the SPEs in for a couple more general purpose cores for more AI and use the savings for a better GFX chip. I mean JC, someone is going to have a field day with 2 PS3s getting taped together jokes.

Seriously, I have no idea why you would want to decode double digit number of H264 with any TV. Even Marty McFly Jr only watched 6 channels simultaneously as a joke.

If Nintendo keeps using a PPC chip, then yeah, Sony would be helping to pay from some of it through parallel development.

I am guessing Intel is making a more graphic oriented Sandybridge?

[Chozo Ghost]

If Nintendo keeps using a PPC chip, then yeah, Sony would be helping to pay from some of it through parallel development.

Sony develops the processor; Nintendo develops everything else; and then both of them steal from each other...

[Ian Sane]

Gotta love how Sony is all "we have to do something different this time" and yet here they are with pipedreams about some magic processor that will not only be used in the PS4 but in everything else as well.  This is the exact same thing!  The whole reason the PS3 was so overpriced is that they tied in the Cell and Blu Ray in with it so they could use it to push those technologies for use outside of gaming.  This was the fucking mistake in the first place!  Nintendo, however, designs their hardware for efficient use as a videogame system.  It's just one product and that method lets them make a profit even if the console isn't well received, like with the Gamecube.

Sony needs to make a PS4 and not be thinking anything else except the PS4.

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, I doubt the PS4 is going to be $600. The cell processor and Blu-ray technology isn't expensive or cutting edge like it was back in 2006, and in 2014 its going to be even cheaper still. The only way the PS4 would end up being $600 is if Sony went nuts with the specs, or if they tried to shove another proprietary media format down our throats like they did with Blu-ray.... Sony sure seems to love developing and pushing their own proprietary media formats, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if that does happen, but there really isn't any need for it.

[ThePerm]

yeah Sony doesnt need to build a new semi conductor facility for ps4 because they built one for ps3, all they have to do is print different chips.

oh and the h264 decoding is sweet in my opinion. Theoretically you could use it for decoding very complex voxel maps in the future on the fly. Each frame would be a layer of voxels. So if your decoding double digits you're loading huge worlds very quickly.

[BlackNMild2k1]

PS4 is to PS3 as Wii was to GC!?
Sony to double down on Nintendo's innovation of.... casual!?
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/9316.html

"It's hard to say right now. I do not think we'll have a console with a lot better graphics than the PS3 currently offered. I believe the future will be to offer consumers better and more accessible experience. The aim will be to make more people enter the world of video games and try to design titles for women." - SCEE vice president of Spain/Portugal James Armstrong

[Chozo Ghost]

This is what I was expecting, because there really isn't all that much that can be done to improve on the PS3's graphics even if that was Sony's objective. The graphical wall has been hit until holodeck technology shows up.

One potential thing about this new focus by Sony is it may cause some of their hardcore audience to abandon it, but that depends a lot on what Microsoft is going to do. Will the Xbox 420 be the sole console dedicated to the hardcore gamer?

[BlackNMild2k1]

This is what I was expecting, because there really isn't all that much that can be done to improve on the PS3's graphics even if that was Sony's objective. The graphical wall has been hit until holodeck technology shows up.

That is very wrong. Graphics can do much more. The problem is that it will cost far too much in both time and money to achieve them. PS360 leapfrogged in tech over the previous gen and cost skyrocketed because of it. We should just now be getting to that level of graphics in the console space if we want to keep things affordable, so it makes sense to slow things down a bit.

2 PS3's duct taped together will be a very capable machine. Especially if they stick a well thought out GPU in there this time.

Assuming this is true though, that really does leave the ball in MS's court.
Do they continue with the tech arms race towards real-time movie grade CG in hopes that Sony will continue to spend and compete? Or do they continue on their current path of expansion towards the casual market?

MS is on deck to show it's hand at E3 2012, Nintendo is already all in, but I'm not sure if Sony will be at that table too.