Topic: PlayStation Vita (PS Vita) - previously known as NGP

[NWR_insanolord]

If the 3DS is going to be at about a GameCube level of hardware, I don't see how Sony is going to be able to maintain a significant graphical advantage without sacrificing battery life or launching at a far-too-high price point.

[smallsharkbigbite]

Not really because the 3D has potential to be used in ways to push gaming design in unique ways, like the touch screen or the dual screen had.

Not saying it can't but I'm clearly not seeing it so how does 3d have the potiential to open up new game play?  Dual screen were only new in a handheld.  Many older arcade units had screens that were two screens high.

[smallsharkbigbite]

If the 3DS is going to be at about a GameCube level of hardware, I don't see how Sony is going to be able to maintain a significant graphical advantage without sacrificing battery life or launching at a far-too-high price point.

It's very early in the game, but I wonder if Sony is going to come in under Nintendo in price this gen.  The tech isn't final but the hands on I read of the 3ds said that background textures were blurry and the 3d didn't pop like the movie theatres.  We can talk specs until we are blue in the face but the gamecube isn't much more powerful than the PSP is now.  The PSP2 could get enough power to double the pixels and that may be enough to show differentiation over the 3ds if the tech isn't quite ready for prime time.  You'd have to think the 3ds would at least come in at $199 with the DSI at $169 and the XL at $190.  That's also got to the high for the PSP2 because they are planning on completing with the iphone which is at $199 and they wouldn't want to go over the 3ds in price unless they offer 3d as well.  Also, remember that Sony is not adverse to launching a console at a loss while Nintendo is adament against it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Not really because the 3D has potential to be used in ways to push gaming design in unique ways, like the touch screen or the dual screen had.

Not saying it can't but I'm clearly not seeing it so how does 3d have the potiential to open up new game play?  Dual screen were only new in a handheld.  Many older arcade units had screens that were two screens high.

wait till you find out what the "3D stick" really means, then you'll see .

[SixthAngel]

Are you serious with that Chozo?

I really don't want to sound mean, but in a world where those rumored specs are true, and the 3DS doesn't stand up to them in any way, how will the sole fact that it has some sort of 3D tech make up for it?

I love Nintendo's games.  I love them more than any other games.  But I'm sick to death of having to feel like I'm playing them in a time machine.

I feel like I am in a time machine when I play 360/ps3 games.  The controls are still the same ones used in the 90's.

Your problem is that you have it imbedded in your brain that future technology is HD/upgraded specs.  Technology goes far beyond the predictable things that have been pushed by 360/ps3.
I don't care about HD.  3D is something that really impresses me and I see as light years ahead of hd.

Frankly the 3ds announcement also makes me feel like I am in a time machine because I thought 3d viewing technology like is rumored wouldn't be possible for years.

It's very early in the game, but I wonder if Sony is going to come in under Nintendo in price this gen.  The tech isn't final but the hands on I read of the 3ds said that background textures were blurry and the 3d didn't pop like the movie theatres. 

There are no hands on impressions of the 3ds.  Everything is speculation, including what 3d technology they will use, even though there are a few things that are most likely true.

[Adrock]

Sony had everything going against it besides graphics heading into the handheld market and they still managed to not only not get rofl-stomped by Nintendo like every other contender, but actually carve out a decent piece of market share, more than the 0.000000756% Sega managed with Game Gear anyway. That's an actual statistic, by the way. Nintendo is still their biggest opposition. However, they must, must, must figure out a way to stop rampant piracy. PSP Go apparently did, but since no one gave a sh*t and Sony's digital distribution policies are total BS, they're going to have to a find a better way. Considering how easy it is to pirate all non-Go PSPs, I'm surprised 3rd parties still release major titles for it. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker looks phenomenal. I'm going to buy that game and I've yet to purchase a game at full price for PSP. Granted, I have 3, but point remains.

Here's Sony's main problem: Nintendo is a better developer. Yes, that's subjective. Nintendogs and Brain Age are two types of games, or "games" if you will, that Sony probably never would have thought of and yet those titles really set DS apart. For once, Sony will have to out think Nintendo and come up with the next big thing. And no, I don't see that happening either.

[smallsharkbigbite]

There are no hands on impressions of the 3ds.  Everything is speculation, including what 3d technology they will use, even though there are a few things that are most likely true.

Sorry, I mispoke of the 3ds hands on, but sharp's screens are likely to be the 3ds screens or at least very similar. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6254607.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3  Here's another article on a 3d monitor http://www.pcworld.com/article/117303/sharp_ships_3d_monitor.html
 
My main concerns are
 
1. The need to be an exact distance from the monitor to take advantage of 3d.  It's hard to be emerged in a game if I can't move my head or arms (since they are attached to the screen). 
 
2.  Whether viewing 3d for long periods of time is good for an individual or will cause headaches/bluriness since it causes your eyes to converge/seperate simultaneously.
 
3.  I don't really get the 3d thing.  When I look around my house I see angles/depth.  When I watch a 3d movie, I see two 2d planes.  So if anything I see this limiting gameplay.  As in your charactor is going to be in the foreground screen and objects will start in the far screen and jump to the foreground screen. 
 
Maybe it's just me, but I do not see the gaming benefit of 3d, which is why I was hoping someone could explain to me what I'm missing.  While PS3/Xbox 360 use control schemes that have been around for a decade, the hope is that developers continue to innovate through gameplay.  While certainly some DS/Wii games are not currently possible on other systems (until Move/Natal) the control scheme also broke (or marginalized) other games. 
 
Games that require precise timing are largely unplayable on the Wii because gestures create input error.  A game marginalized in my opinion was New Super Mario Bros.  The SNES had customizable schemes, they can have gestures for certain moves as the default setup, but why can't I get a set up that allows me to use the classic controller with the SNES set up?  That would have made New Super Mario Bros an A+ game in my opinion.  While forcing me to use the small dpad, motion controls, uncomfortably small controller (wiimote on side) made it a B+ game.  Ideally, innovation shouldn't be a two steps forward, one step back proposition. 
 
 

[NWR_Lindy]

I really don't care about 3D either, although I can see Nintendo doing some cool stuff with it.  But it strikes me as similar to motion control, in that it'll be cool/useful for some types of games, but annoying/useless for other types.  In my mind, 3D alone is not reason enough to buy the system (just like I wouldn't buy a TV just because it supported 3D).  It's a neat gimmick that could be cool if used correctly, but nothing more.

I think the PSP2 will follow the iPod Touch/iPhone model and have one version with a phone, and one without.  I think UMD will be gone in favor of 100% digital distribution, since the PlayStation store is already well-established in the largest PSP markets (NA, Japan, and PAL territories).  I also think that PSP2 will be backwards-compatible with the PSP, but of course only for the games currently downloadable from PSN.  Sony always likes to lead the pack in bleeding-edge technology - often at the cost of profits - so I think this is completely reasonable.  If they weren't going this route, they never would have bothered with the PSPgo (which I always viewed merely as an experimental testbed for the PSP2).

I would also guess that it would have a touch-screen, but also the traditional DualShock-style D-pad and face buttons, but this time with dual analog sticks.  This is the best of both worlds, and won't shoehorn developers into making games that are PSP-only (i.e. they can port games from PS2, whatever).  It would also allow PSP2 users to download and play PS2 games on the device, which I think they will introduce with the PSP2 (I always thought it was weird that they haven't put PS2 games up on PSN, but I think that's because they're waiting for the PSP2 to do it).

My guess is that the PSP2 will be $299 with the phone+2 year plan, and maybe $229 without.  That sounds like a lot, but the iPhone is just as expensive and people buy plenty of those.

[BlackNMild2k1]

My only concern with Sony going the DD only route is the fact that the system will more expensive so that the retailers get a bigger cut since they won't be making their money off the subsequent POP game sales. Maybe there is money at retail for Sony Points Cards, but retailers might not want to push the system if they don't think it's profitable for them.

So that alone might bump the retail price up to $250, but on the plus side a PSPhone would now be sold in every cellphone shop that had a carrier that supported it and they only care about moving the phone, not the additional software.

Which brings up another concern. PSPhone will have to pick a network or make several different version each for a specific carrier. Verizon & Sprint may have compatible 3G networks, but their 4G networks are not gonna be the same. AT&T & T-Mobile do not share the same type of 3G network (to my knowledge) and I have no idea if their 4G networks will be similar. so PSPhone will either only work on one carrier(limiting it's appeal amongst network loyalist), they will have a very expensive cellular chip that is compatible with all carriers or there will be certain versions made for each carrier.


edit: and one more thing. If this PSP2 is packing as much heat as the rumors suggest, a phone version isn't gonna have much in the way of talk time, and if you use talk time, you aren't gonna have much in the way of game time. So unless Sony has a battery power break through, I don't see a Phone with the power somewhere around an xbox360 being as being very smart.

[Pale]

Not wanting to buy bleeding edge technology and being OK with bargain basement trash are two totally different things.

The screens in the DS are essentially the exact same pieces of tech as those in the Game Boy Advance (only marginally better).  Nintendo put that in a VERY affordable portable device NINE years ago.

All I'm asking is that the new DS has something more modern... maybe in line with the iPhone's screen.  That tech is 3 years old as of right now.  No reason they can't get those made affordably.


There is only one reason 3D in the new DS pisses me off so much, and that's because I fully expect it to be another excuse for Nintendo to lean on as to why they didn't put better base tech in the device.

How much internal memory do you think the 3DS will have?


Yes, I'm pessimistic.... but it is the track record after all.




So yeah, overall I am very excited to see what Sony does with the PSP2.  I just wish I could play the next gen Pokemon on a device of similar power.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Shouldn't you have posted all but the last 2 sentences of that in the DS2 thread?

But if you look at the screens that Sharp are releasing that are likely to be used in the 3DS (it's reported that the screen manufacturer was about to reveal their new screens and Nintendo wanted to beat them to the punch, so that's why they announced the 3DS how & when they did), they are high resolution and we can honestly expect around GC level graphics (which is better than PSP) and all in 3D. So nothing to worry about at this point.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't see how Sony is going to be able to maintain a significant graphical advantage without sacrificing battery life or launching at a far-too-high price point.

Would you put that past them? They've been known to do that, you know.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't see how Sony is going to be able to maintain a significant graphical advantage without sacrificing battery life or launching at a far-too-high price point.

Would you put that past them? They've been known to do that, you know.

I could see Sony pushing it power wise at release and then hoping battery tech catches up in the next year or so. But I don't see them letting Nintendo regain a iron fist grip on teh portable gaming market again uncontested. Sony does not want to be shut out by Nintendo and Apple.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think that's why it's going to have a phone version.  Otherwise, what's the point?

As long as they keep the gaming battery life around 10 hours, that'll be OK.  I've never cared too much about talk time because I only use my cell for short calls, typically.

I'm interested to see what Sony does.  They really need the hardware to do something that differentiates its games from the PS3.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm not sure how a 3G connection is gonna achieve that.

But the inclusion of a multi-touch screen and 2 cameras(1 facing at you the other facing away) is a start. Both of those would be needed to match the iPhone 4G that comes out later this year.

edit:
Hopefully the PSPhone has an app that allows it to be a mobile hotspot. That will make it useful to all the gamers that want to do online gaming with their 3DS's (amiriteguyz)

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

If you kill the PSP2 battery, does that mean you have to discard the whole thing or send it in for replacement?

[Chozo Ghost]

If you kill the PSP2 battery, does that mean you have to discard the whole thing or send it in for replacement?

Not if it uses standard AA batteries. 20 AA batteries should do the trick. That should be enough for your typical 2 hours of play time, at which point you would need to replace those.

[NWR_insanolord]

If you kill the PSP2 battery, does that mean you have to discard the whole thing or send it in for replacement?

Not if it uses standard AA batteries. 20 AA batteries should do the trick. That should be enough for your typical 2 hours of play time, at which point you would need to replace those.

So it's the spiritual successor to the Game Gear.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Looks like Sony might have their eyes on some no-glasses 3D tech after all.
This isn't a new story, but with recent events this story now has more relevance.

If the Sony/Ericcson team is getting involved with the PSP, then maybe the PSP2 would be considered a recipient for this tech.

3D by 3M..... for Sony/Ericcson?

The new type of screen, known as Vikuiti, is made by 3M — the American technology giant behind key elements of the iPhone's display. The technology is suitable for smartphones and handheld games consoles with screens of up to nine inches. It will enable users to watch 3-D films and games without having to wear polarised glasses[...]

We tested one of the first screens at 3M’s laboratories in Minnesota. There is a slight flicker as the screen switches from 2-D to 3-D, but then it feels entirely natural to watch it. Seen head-on, the effect is convincing.
[...]
A better clue, however, may be in the name that briefly, and it seems accidentally, flashed on screen during 3M’s PowerPoint presentation of its new technology to The Sunday Times: the words Sony Ericsson fleetingly appeared. The mobile-phone manufacturer declined to comment.

I really doubt Sony would release a 3D PSPhone version and a regular non-3D PSP2 version so if one would use it, the other should too. But this is evidence that some arm of Sony has been playing in the 3D pool and could have something ready for PSP2 relatively easily by E3 is it wasn't already in the pipeline.

[Shorty McNostril]

Aha.  I thought so.  But we will see what happens................

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

With the way Sony does things, we can expect a $600 handheld.

[Spak-Spang]

This is the problem with Nintendo's 3D handheld.  It is just a screen and easily duplicated.  The 3D screen can not be the real innovation of the system because it is too easily copiable. 

I don't doubt that the PSP2 can easily already or quickly add a 3D screen to the system without any problems. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

The main difference with the 3D option listed above for PSP is that it is lenticular <sp> and can't be views longways like the DS can in Bookmode. That's not a problem with PSP since there are no games that use the PSP in that way, but that is one bonus that the 3DS will have over PSP.

Besides, I'm almost 100% positive optimistic that there will be some sort of way of tracking the stylus for the 3DS either by camera or by magnetic field (I can and have provided examples for both) as 3D can't be the only innovation just like Dual Screens wasn't the only innovation for the DS when that revealed 6 years ago(touchscreen).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The last time Sony quickly "added" something, we got the Sixaxis.

[ThePerm]

Are you serious with that Chozo?

I really don't want to sound mean, but in a world where those rumored specs are true, and the 3DS doesn't stand up to them in any way, how will the sole fact that it has some sort of 3D tech make up for it?

I love Nintendo's games.  I love them more than any other games.  But I'm sick to death of having to feel like I'm playing them in a time machine.

price point is super important, is psp2's specs are too high there is no way they can make it affordable, i am never paying $300 for something that can easily be stolen or lost. Handhelds are supposed to be slightly behind, consoles on the other hand..wii has aged poorly