Author Topic: What microsoft thinks of the virtual console. (Read 14598 times)

Zach · « **on:** February 04, 2006, 08:46:58 PM »

Its not really a big surprise but their going with the NINTENDO IS TEH tiku tiku tiku! approach

A _ _ HOLE

this is the best part

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a lot of those games are fun in your head when you think, 'Oh, yeah when I was 12, this was really fun,' and you have these great nostalgic reasons to play them. Then you do play them, and they're just not very fun anymore. But, there are some games like Joust or Gauntlet or Pac-Man that are as fun today as they were back then.

Wow that is hyppocritical, he is saying that retro games suck, but our retro games are good

Edit: but what do you expect, he obviously cant go out there and say that nintendo's old games are actually good, even though if it werent for those games he wouldnt have that great job of his.

TrueNerd · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:07:36 PM »

How's that backwards compatibility coming, Microsoft?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:22:58 PM »

Well, Joust or Metroid really haven't stood the test of time but games like Zelda or Super Mario Bros aren't much different from their newest incarnations and still a lot of fun.

Deguello · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2006, 10:10:15 PM »

Is this some kind of roundabout insult to Rare from MS? I mean, ok Perfect Dark is for 12-year-olds and Perfect Dark Zero isn't?

wandering · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2006, 10:33:50 PM »

ahaha, pac-man and Joust hold up better than Mario?

Oh, and I loved this part:

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I think it was interesting to see Nintendo's announcement for the Revolution downloadable games service which, of course, came over a year after we launched our initiative internally and around nine months after we already launched the first generation of Arcade for Xbox. I think it was a responsive move.

Still, they do bring up one good point: they're offering new games from indy developers and Nintendo might not be. Nintendo would do well to offer cheap, new, downloadable games that utlize the revmote.

ruby_onix · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:38:22 AM »

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Still, they do bring up one good point: they're offering new games from indy developers and Nintendo might not be.

Nintendo has reportedly been telling developers that they can't make "new old games". If they want to make something original, but low-tech, then they should just make it for the Rev/Cube/DS/GBA (whichever one they'd like).

Deguello · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:57:06 AM »

Nintendo had been offering downloadable games as early as the SNES with the Satelliview.

It's funny, the only way Microsoft can assault this feature is to say that they thought of it first or some such nonsense. They know they can't really compete against it because nobody can. Just the Nintendo-published games make it unassailable really. What, is he sayng that Super Metroid "just can't hold up?" That Rare's efforts before MS ownership are just a big pile of crap? And if most of the third parties jump abord the download service train, is there any denying that the Rev's service is by far superior?

See, what he doesn't realize is that while some people might d/l some of their old favorites, most will be getting games that they have lost or sold, and some, like myself, wil be getting games that I never got a chance to play to begin with. Pop Quiz. Anybody here have Kirby's Dreamland 3? Released in 1997, during the N64's rise, not many people bought it and it continues to be a rarity. With the Rev, I can have a "copy" of it, of the European release of Terranigma, the Japan Only N64 shooter Sin and Punishment, and maybe uniracers or something. This is superior to Joust and Pacman and Gauntlet.

BTW that statement is just so hypocritical LOL

wandering · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2006, 06:54:02 AM »

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Nintendo has reportedly been telling developers that they can't make "new old games". If they want to make something original, but low-tech, then they should just make it for the Rev/Cube/DS/GBA (whichever one they'd like).

Oh.

It took me a bit to figure out why: Nintendo wants to sell simple games that rely heavily on the novelty of the control for 20+ dollars. Offering 5 dollar new games for download, even really short/simple ones, could undermine that.

Still, I hope they at least reconsider offering new games over the virtual console for full price. I'd pay 30 dollars for niche, non-graphic-intensive games like Cubivore.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2006, 10:15:17 AM »

"I think it was interesting to see Nintendo's announcement for the Revolution downloadable games service which, of course, came over a year after we launched our initiative internally and around nine months after we already launched the first generation of Arcade for Xbox.

It's interesting to see the completely unique 360 controller. I've never seen anything like it since the Dreamcast.

Look at Geometry Wars; it's our Halo. That's not a 10-year-old retro title that you're running on some sort of emulator.

No, that's your Asteroids clone of a 26 year-old game bonehead.

"A lot of those Nintendo games, you know, aren't gonna hold up."

Neither will Halo once the Revolution comes out in 9 months.

mantidor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2006, 11:39:24 AM »

hahahaha that is hilarious, no one, and I mean seriously not a single human being who is at least a little sane could say that Joust is better or has "hold up" better than Super Mario Bros, Metroid, Zelda, Kirby, etc, etc, etc. Who knows what the hell does he meant by "a lot of Nintendo games", because honestly 90% of Nintendo first party library of the NES alone surpass in quality most of today's games.

cmoney · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2006, 05:03:01 PM »

That's just embarrassing. Hard to believe people that spout off such nonsense can hold down a decent job.

UncleBob · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2006, 05:41:35 PM »

Hey, Microsoft, how's your live service doing after how many years? I here Nintendo's WiFi Connection is doing pretty good with three games and a few months...

Ian Sane · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:45:57 AM »

"Well, Joust or Metroid really haven't stood the test of time"

I'll agree that Metroid is pretty archaic these days but don't you be badmouthing Joust! That game still kicks ass!

This is a pretty weak statement from MS and they would have been better off not saying anything. The truth is some games get dated and some don't. I've played games less then five years old that seem unplayable now while something like Super Metroid could be released today on the DS or GBA and not seem dated at all. In fact I'd say a lot of classic games benefit from not comforming to annoying modern trends like hand holding hint systems and low difficulty.

And they made a big mistake of saying Gauntlet still holds up. That's like number one on my list of classic games that now suck. What a horribly tedious waste of time that game is.

JonLeung · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2006, 08:27:05 AM »

I'm not really into the arcade games where the purpose is mostly just to get a high score. With more cinematic and story-based games now being the norm, I don't see how any Xbox gamer would agree with that guy's sentiment and love Joust more than other Nintendo games that at least had a story. I can enjoy Joust for like, three stages. If I was playing Super Mario Bros. or Metroid I'd be more inclined to play to the end, or at least default out of it with a Game Over sooner than choosing to give up out of boredom.

mantidor · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:32:35 AM »

Balloon fighter > Joust, I dont care of its a rip off, it was better

JonLeung · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2006, 07:55:32 AM »

If Nintendo's virtual console attracts third parties, wouldn't Joust, Gauntlet, Pac-Man, Smash TV, and Street Fighter II Turbo be available there too?

So he says certain games are better than Nintendo's best, and then ignores the possibility that those games he mentioned could easily come out on Nintendo's side as well.

If he was dissing early NES games which were arcade-style games, well, whatever. Later NES games could be epic. Maybe an oversight. But ignoring the Super NES Squaresoft RPGs and N64 Rareware platformers? Puh-lease.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:24:07 AM »

"If Nintendo's virtual console attracts third parties, wouldn't Joust, Gauntlet, Pac-Man, Smash TV, and Street Fighter II Turbo be available there too?"

I believe every game in that list at some point was ported to the NES or SNES so yeah. Though Namco would probably go lazy on us and give us the crappy NES version of Pac-Man but still.

mantidor · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:30:06 AM »

I thought loose-mouthed ex Nintendo employee Merrick confirmed that there were third parties on board already. something like "the usual suspects". I assume sega/capcom maybe?

Pale · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:36:07 AM »

I do hope that Nintendo does decide to emulate some of what MS is doing in their Live Arcade.

Check these articles out from the cool guys over at GarageGames...

http://makeitbigingames.com/blog/?p=7
http://makeitbigingames.com/blog/?p=13

If online delivery through both MS's Live Arcade and Nintendo's Virtual Console allow for small teams to create and sell great content, the industry can only benefit. Can you imagine if Sonic or Mario got out sold by a 10 dollar game up for download that was created by two kids in a basement?

I hope Nintendo doesn't miss this boat. Not only would it give Microsoft an obnoxious marketing stance as shown in this guys words, but every time Nintendo talks about the Rev being a developer's system, we'd all have to roll our eyes a bit.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:51:53 AM »

"I assume sega/capcom maybe?"

Well I doubt Sega considering they released, well, zero NES, SNES or N64 games.

I believe Square Enix has already been confirmed.

Regarding small teams making new content for the Virtual Console I think it's a brilliant idea. But Nintendo can be jerks at the best of times and they've never really treated third parties fairly. They tend to regard them more as something to exploit. So I honestly don't see Nintendo being accomodating enough to allow small teams to make money on the service. Nintendo will probably charge high licencing fees or insist on everyone using their official dev kits or some penny-pinching BS that will scare away anyone but established companies. Hell we don't even know what they're going to charge for games. For all we know they'll overcharge and the service won't take off as well as it could. With anything regarding Nintendo's relationship with other companies you can never tell what's going to happen. There's common sense and then there's Nintendo sense and they're rarely the same thing.

JonLeung · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:57:46 AM »

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Well I doubt Sega considering they released, well, zero NES, SNES or N64 games.

What about Alien Syndrome and Fantasy Zone on the NES? Alien Syndrome was published by Tengen (I think...and Tengen's publisher status is a weird one) but the game was developed by Sega. Fantasy Zone...maybe that wasn't officially released...or was it?

I keep saying Sega should give up their game library. Monopoly on classic games, blah blah blah. But as a longtime Nintendo fan, while I'd like to play Super Mario Bros. the umpteenth time and willingly pay money for it (I'm serious but I'm sure that borders on satire or irony or someting) it would be nice to play games I missed out on for being a loyal Nintendo fan.

wandering · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2006, 09:15:28 AM »

New games on the virtual console? I've become convinced it's not happening.

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Originally posted by: Pale
I hope Nintendo doesn't miss this boat. Not only would it give Microsoft an obnoxious marketing stance as shown in this guys words, but every time Nintendo talks about the Rev being a developer's system, we'd all have to roll our eyes a bit.

(I'm quoting myself here) Nintendo wants to sell simple games that rely heavily on the novelty of the control for 20+ dollars. Offering 5 dollar new games for download, even really short/simple ones, could undermine that.

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Originally posted by: IanSane
Regarding small teams making new content for the Virtual Console I think it's a brilliant idea. But Nintendo can be jerks at the best of times and they've never really treated third parties fairly. They tend to regard them more as something to exploit. So I honestly don't see Nintendo being accomodating enough to allow small teams to make money on the service. Nintendo will probably charge high licencing fees or insist on everyone using their official dev kits or some penny-pinching BS that will scare away anyone but established companies.

I don't think Nintendo is anti-small-developer, but I do think they're obsessed with quality. They'd hate the idea of letting just any and everybody make games for their system - and for good reason: wide open game development actually killed the videogame industry in the early 80's. And Nintendo's heavy, top-down quality control is what saved it.

UncleBob · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2006, 09:23:10 AM »

Where's that quality control now?

Pale · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2006, 09:28:34 AM »

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Originally posted by: wandering
New games on the virtual console? I've become convinced it's not happening.

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Originally posted by: Pale
I hope Nintendo doesn't miss this boat. Not only would it give Microsoft an obnoxious marketing stance as shown in this guys words, but every time Nintendo talks about the Rev being a developer's system, we'd all have to roll our eyes a bit.

(I'm quoting myself here) Nintendo wants to sell simple games that rely heavily on the novelty of the control for 20+ dollars. Offering 5 dollar new games for download, even really short/simple ones, could undermine that.

Yeah I read what you said, admittedly after I posted mine

Nintendo's 'simple' games should still have significantly more budget and programmer skill behind them than some of the indie games they would get on a service like that. If Nintendo were to be truly worried about these 5 dollar indie games hurting their sales, there is a bigger issue here. The right mentality would be to think that they would be increasing their systems library at a minimal cost to themselves and promoting the industry as a whole. I don't think a 6 man team could make something in 6 months that made me not want to play Smash Bros. Revolution.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2006, 09:31:45 AM »

"What about Alien Syndrome and Fantasy Zone on the NES?"

Oh yeah. Forgot about those. They were "illegal" games so I didn't think of them. But I don't see why Nintendo would have a problem with them now.

"I don't think Nintendo is anti-small-developer, but I do think they're obsessed with quality. They'd hate the idea of letting just any and everybody make games for their system - and for good reason: wide open game development actually killed the videogame industry in the early 80's. And Nintendo's heavy, top-down quality control is what saved it."

Anytime anyone brings this up I point to Superman 64. Nintendo used to officially "approve" of every game on their systems yet they had no problem letting that turd though. They probably cared during the NES days since they had rules over how many games a third party could release per year. But in recent times it's clear Nintendo will take anything they can get.

I don't think it's a small developer bias but just the simple fact that Nintendo likes to profit from everything and usually will risk shooting themselves in the foot for short-term profit. They're penny pinchers and they've always treated third parties poorly. They'll want to profit off of all downloaded games and in a big way. So two guys in a garage, even if they make a fantastic game, might not be able to afford to make a game because Nintendo will take too much of the pie or at the very least a much bigger piece than MS will.

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Author Topic: What microsoft thinks of the virtual console. (Read 14598 times)