Topic: Xenon specs revealed.

[KDR_11k]

Article

Abstract: Few surprises so far, the specs are what everybody expected and rumored. Triple core PPC970 3GHz, 500MHz ATi GPU, 256MB RAM and an optional harddrive. Only points of interest are the USB webcam, the DVD-9 drive and the mandatory Live! support for all games.


So Nintendo won't have the smallest media next gen, eh? Prepare yourself for some trouble, Microsoft.
Mandatory Live! support sounds weird unless they mean all games can bring up your buddy list for some IMing. Not every game is fit even for local multiplayer, let aside online.
USB webcam, eh? Does that mean Eyetoy games or just more ways for lamers on Live! to deliver offensive messages? Or just video chat? Either way I'd prefer that optional because I'd leave it unplugged anyway for privacy reasons.

Overall not much surprising stuff in there.

[Ian Sane]

Mandatory Live support sounds like it will turn off some third parties.  That's like a "Nintendo NES era picking on third parties" kind of thing.  If Sony and Nintendo both have open online designs like they have now MS is going to be screwed by their strict Live setup.  Live worked when online gaming was a new thing but as it becomes more common third parties are going to prefer having the freedom to setup whatever they want.  Mandatory support is ridiculous.  If a third party doesn't want to do any network related coding they shouldn't have to.

It's not the only dictator stuff:

"Developers are being instructed to plan their games for high-definition. The baseline is 720p at 1280x720 for gameplay and video clips, 16:9 aspect ratio, 5.1 Surround Sound, and anti-aliasing. These features are the current minimum requirement. "

"All Xenon games can be played using custom soundtracks."

Now for a gamer these requirements are pretty cool.  But this stuff costs money and if a smaller third party wants to not have a high definition game to save costs they should be allowed to.  The Xenon, to me, looks like it will the standard MS facist routine where they use their power to try to force people to do things their way.  Only they don't have a monopoly in this industry so they can't get away with it.  With these requirements the Xenon is only friendly for big budget publishers.  Small companies who can't afford to adhere to these "rules" can't make Xenon games.

This is also pretty rigid for gamers with the 16:9 mandatory requirement.  So I have to play ALL of my games letterboxed?  Screw that.  

[KDR_11k]

You know, if I was a developer who didn't like one of these requirements I'd just give MS the virtual finger and to some crap with them. Live! support? Sure, you can get the message of the week and maybe a webcam pic of our aquarium from our website. High definition? Sure, we'll render to a surface and render THAT in HD (of course I'm not an opponent of HD, especially since that's just plain trivial to implement). Custom soundtracks? Sure, we'll go by their playlist number to determine where they fit into our dynamic music system. Just don't be surprised if it's playing three of them at once, the system wasn't made for that. BOfH makes you creative.

Considering I've just read a developer's estimate saying that online takes about 1/3rd of the production time because of nontrivial implementation (even a nice API won't sort out which signals to send on what events) and much longer testing (online introduces a whole new world of modes of failure) that Live! requirement will really bite them in the ass PROVIDED they mean online multiplayer with that. If it just means displaying messages your buddy sends you via Xenon Instant Messenger and giving you a text field to reply that won't be much of a problem (especially since MS will provide an API, slipping in an error or easereggs on certain message contents is purely optional).

[Pale]

This sounds like something coming out of spong....gamespy?  Wait..someone has to be misunderstanding...  Maybe by custom soundtracks means that the gamers can mute the game sounds and play mp3s instead...who knows...

[Artimus]

I thought the custom soundtrack thing meant the same thing the XBOX does?

[Renny]

This sounds like a preconfigured gaming PC. With the obligatory webcam. Thrilling indeed.

"Optional hard drive"? That means confused consumers. That means pissed off consumers when their basic Nexbox³ won't play the game they bought the system for.

Using the aging and relatively small-storage DVD-9 medium will still allow for quality games, but it'll be one more thing to dissuade developers. See: GameCube.

The RAM is a much smaller increment than either the PS->PS2 or N64->GCN. Will both Sony and Nintendo significantly one-up MS in the year interim? The Xbox has 64 MB of system RAM and is a very capable machine. Um, thanks for the reminder. Anyone have an objective view on this?

The camera:  I can see a video window popping up in the corner of the vast 16:9 display to display a wide, pale ass staring back at me. And there'll be Sega's Antigrav 2: In Space.

Standardized 16:9 output for all games would be a selling point for HDTV owners if it weren't for this legacy 'workaround': Developers are being instructed to make sure that any critical text will fit into and look good in 4:3. HUGE TEXT!!!

X3DAudio:  What? So is this DD/EX or DTS/ES?

This looks like a very confused system: Does it want to appeal to the hardcore or casual? To a select few well-funded developers, or a broad range like the PS2? They're making compromises that mitigate any benefits having such options might have provided. Nintendo doing this would bomb harder than they have before. MS could market something out of this.

[couchmonkey]

Okay, about the custom soundtrack and Live support...how bad those are depends on how MS supports them.  Theoretically, Microsoft could be offering simple Live IM tools or custom soundtrack tools right in the dev kits or even the console's OS, in which case those aren't really going to hurt Xbox.  If MS actually expects devs to put an online mode in every game, though...that's insane.  Still, there is a lot of dictating going on here.

To me the bigger concerns are the harddrive and the DVDs.  I've personally downplayed the importance of Blu-Ray or HDDVD playback, but as we reach the end of the next hardware cycle, they might possibly become big selling points.  More importantly, having the smallest disc size will put them at a disadvantage - not a huge one, but still...  The optional harddrive makes downloadable content and certain game designs less feasible and frankly, it's nice not having to buy memory cards. Put the harddrive and the disc size issues together with the fact that MS is launching early, and Xenonbox 362 starts to look like the next-gen "budget" system.  Not a great place to be when your reputation is built partially on having the most powerful console.

[Don'tHate742]

Does anyone else feel like smacking the author of that article and asking him "WHERE ARE YOU?!"

[Flames_of_chaos]

Well developers can always pull a Chronicals of Riddick which the only Xbox Live feature in that game was that people can see that your playing Riddick. NOW THAT WOULD BE FUNNY.

[Galford]

That entire article just feels weird.  
I just can't wrap my head Xenon not supporting DirectSound.

I would suggest anyone wanting to know more, goto MS's XNA site.  There's a lot of BS there, but there are some nuggets you can find.

[KDR_11k]

If you don't like Raymond, well, you're normal. That guy is an idiot easily blinded by hype. He skipped the DS for concerns of it being gimmicky (at some point he was incredibly hyped for it but changed his oppinion again, IIRC) but immediately sold into the PSP because of the "sexy screen". Media whore. Tell him "OMG PS3 does movie graphics!" and he's your lapdog until the next guy comes around and makes even more unrealistic claims. But this isn't the "we hate R. Padilla" thread, this is the "OMG MS is going to fumble with Xenon" thread .

If Sony adds BRD playback to the PS3 (and I'm 100% sure they will) they'll have the media advantage over MS, now if Nintendo delivered a system more capable (easy, they launch a year later after all) with some media playback and a solid online plan (both likely) they'd completely one-up Xenon. Expect the Sony hype machine to kick in as the Xenon nears launch, as well.

The second article goes into detail about the Live! stuff. Yep, the only game-related part are the downloads and I doubt MS will force you to offer any downloadable content. They're introducing extensive profiling, probably to prime the people for later complete surveillance, a gamer cred system (a total score for all archievements made in all your games) and a feedback system that'll probably see some serious abuse. Also they're giving devs the ability to "send you to the online download marketplace". Does that mean whenever you run e.g. The Sims it'll kick you to the d/l site first to offer you dozens of premium downloads? Can't wait to see this abused as well...

[Don'tHate742]

I hope Nintendo doesn't go priority with their Disc-Based media. Hollywood has chosen HD-DVD, which is great news since neither Sony nor Microsoft have chosen it. Nintendo could finally get those (I need both) people, with an enticing deal for a videogame/HD-DVD player. They could still protect themselves from Piracy by doing what they did with the Gamecube. Just have a blank first layer then have the second layer filled with information. In that case it would still be alot more than DVD-9, which is....kinda worthless by today's standard. How fast are HD-DVD drives anyways, that's a major factor when dealing with Nintendo.

It seems like the Xenon will only appeal to hardcore gamers that can afford or even want to use the special features. I mean you have to be hardcore to use a video camera, headset, chat, and anything online in general. People already have a computer so I don't get that chat or video, it's a pointless way of interacting in my opinion. I don't like seeing strangers, it doesn't hit a chord with me....it's just cool, now I can see a guy looking at his TV....great. I remember when I played online, I HATED how I could hear the other person's voice. It was so annoying, I quit after 10 minutes, and vowed to never touch that damn thing again. Personally, I like to give complements to those that can take me out, or the ones I have good battles with, but the majority seems to be like "Mother******! You suck donkey ****s! HAHHAHAHA! oh I died! LUCKyh SHOTIOUIIOSU!" Playing with my friends is great, or anonymously online......

[Artimus]

Hollywood hasn't really chosen HDDVD. Just somes studios have.

[Don'tHate742]

Sure but when the most prominent join up with HD-DVD, then you know which way the others will swing. Also unlike Sony, toshiba plans to launch consumer-products such as HD-DVD players in conjuction with HD-DVD rom drives for computers during the fourth quater of this year. Sony only made a deal with HP to launch a line of rom drives for fourth quater of 2005. Consumer electronics won't be expected to launch till 2nd quater of 2006.

So if HD-DVD becomes availible before Blu-Ray, and also has support from major studios, I think it's safe to say what disk will become the next standard. It doesn't matter if the BRDs can hold more capacity in the long run, they can only hold 27 GB during the first generation (most likely from 4th Q of 2005 to 4th Q 2006, then it'll advance).

http://ultimateavmag.com/news/120604hddvd/

Nintendo would be smart to side with major movie companies like New Line. They make big hits and people next year will want to get into HD-DVD when they see this new format the movie companies are using. Starting late 2005, Toshiba is going to be launching expensive versions of the players (just a guess). Then in late 2006, what's it catches more support from the movie biz and the price drops down a little lower the REV will come out, advertised as an HD-DVD videogame player. They could quite literally pull a Sony, while Sony is pulling a Nintendo. It would be a smart move damn it!  

[ThePerm]

I know brd and hd-dvd are new technologies...but i dont think the world is ready to switch from regular dvd....also...if they are going to switch they will switch with something that seems more familiar to them which is
hd-dvd.

I hope nintendo does have some movie playback capability on thew next system...simply so stupid fanboys won't say
"hey you don't have this".....

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo is very close to Panasonic. Panasonic is one of BRD's backers. Two consoles with BRD playback vs. very expensive HDDVD players... Who would win?
Video playback is likely. The Play-Yan ws a first move in that direction.

[Ian Sane]

"If Sony adds BRD playback to the PS3 (and I'm 100% sure they will) they'll have the media advantage over MS"

This is hardly an advantage.  Neither of these new formats are going to take off soon if at all.  The average consumer just recently accepted DVD.  There is no way they're going to change formats so quickly.  Look how long VHS lasted.  It took a long time to get people to switch formats.  People are not going to suddenly be swayed by something that to the average person doesn't really provide any noticable benefits.  You might notice the difference but most won't.  I probably would know the difference but I still won't change because to me DVD is good enough.

The advantage of Sony using Blue Ray is that they'll be offering a much larger disc capacity than MS so like with the Cube you'll likely see the Xenon getting shortchanged on ports of bloatware.  Nothing too major but significant for the followup to a console where the whole selling point was that it was the most powerful hardware available.

As for Nintendo I don't care what they use provided that it is the same size as the competition (at a comparable price of course).  The Cube discs weren't that bad but they were still smaller and we did get some crappy ports because of it.  Plus even though it's not that bad I imagine making a multiple disc game does cost more than making a one disc game.  Anti-piracy is still more important though and should get priority I just think that disc size should be one of the last things to comprimise.

[Ian Sane]

Gamespot's got some more info.

One thing I find interesting:

"Micro-transactions: Breaking down barriers of small-ticket online commerce, micro-transactions will allow developers and the gaming community to charge as little as they like for content they create and publish on Marketplace. Imagine players slapping down $.99 to buy a one-of-a-kind, fully tricked-out racing car to be the envy of their buddies."

Paying to get parts of game scares the hell out of me.  The potential for misuse is insane.  I can see $50 games coming out that require the players to spend another $20 or so to unlock the whole game.  In theory this could be good for expansions or annual roster updates but I just know that some major third parties will blatantly misuse it.  I don't want "pay more money to get the last level" to become a commonly accepted occurance.  It's bad enough when games have incomplete endings to encourage sequel sales.

[Deguello]

What I don't like is the optional hard drive.  They took the one good idea they had and de-standardized it, which means no one will use it.

[pudu]

According to thenextbox the next xbox will be "A well-balanced system that will deliver more than a teraflop of targeted computing performance "

This seems absolutely outlandish to me...

From looking around the net the most GFlops I've seen achieved with a dual 2GHz G5 is about 12 (or 6/per cpu).  Estimating that the 3GHz ones used in xbox 2's will be able to reach 10 GFlops each this only brings it to 30 GFlops.  This being quite short of the 1000 GFlops (TFlop) mark.  If they meant the combined power of the cpu, gpu, etc. then that TFlop mark may be a tad bit more realistic.  I expect their GPU to be around 100 GFlops since ATI's x800 XT card is about 60 GFlops.  They may also be including specs like shader throughput (which is about 200 Gflops for the x800).  

I don't know, sounds to me like they are doing their best to twist the facts to try and compete with Cells alleged TFlops capacity.  This probably exactly what Nintendo is trying to avoid.  Rather then arguing endlessly about specs, they are going to prove that more fun can be had with a new form of interaction.  Plus I doubt in the end we will even care about what console is the most powerful.  Look at when the last generations of consoles came out, I was blown away by Xbox's specs but in the end they didn't deliver the gap they promised to on paper graphics-wise.  I'm positive Nintnedo will be offering a capable machine that will undoubtable compete side by side with the other consoles in terms of graphics prowess.

[kennyb27]

A lot of this stuff scares me.  It's definitely a direction that I do not want the industry to move to.  What I hope is that the general industry is smarter than to allow a lot of this stuff to be conformed to.  It's announcements like these that make me think back to why I was so angry when Microsoft announced they would enter the video game industry.  

[PaLaDiN]

J Allard's keynote speech seriously p'd me off.

Nice to have confirmation that Microsoft got into this industry to turn into a giant graphical and all-in-one entertainment media center pissing contest.

If this is the way the industry's going, I'll stick with Nintendo and Sony.

[kennyb27]

Also this speech wants me to buy Sony's next system just to help Microsoft fail.

[Savior]

What did the Speech say?

[Galford]

The sad part is, Sony vision of the future isn't too much different the MS.
If you go back and look at what Sony has said about the Playstation platform, Sony
wants to do what MS is doing with Xenon.

MS is doing using software as it's means of taking of over the world,
Sony wants to do using Sony branded gadgets and hardware.

[BlkPaladin]

But Microsoft wants to dime and nickle you to death, while Sony just wants the lump sum.

[Don'tHate742]

It's funny.

I can see both the Xbox 2 and PS3 failing miserably if Nintendo's controller is revolutionary. If it's very fun, easy to play, and it allows for conventional games to do things that just weren't possible before....then I dub Nintendo the winner come this year's E3. Plus, I'm glad both companies are going for the same market share, and even in the same way. It's just less competition once the Revolution comes out.

[Uglydot]

Bah, I just want a god damned Video Game machine.  

[KDR_11k]

Well, with Microsoft being the devil and all we can at least be sure of the "god damned" part.

[Pale]

Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
What I don't like is the optional hard drive.  They took the one good idea they had and de-standardized it, which means no one will use it.

I used to think the Hard Drive in the X-Box was a good thing, but that was when I was still in the cartridge mind set of the n64.  I love the fact that I can cart memory cards to people's houses, the office, or school, and have all my save games.  With cartridges you could bring the whole game and that was fine too, but with an internal hard drive your saves are tied to your system which is quite crummy.  I know the X-Box had the whole memory card thing too but why buy memory cards when you can save for free? I dunno, its just a dilemma.

Hard drives are needed for games like FFXI...too bad sony didn't think so.

[Ymeegod]

And how many used the Xbox's harddrive up to now?  None besides Blinks, of course that could be 1/2 MS's fault since the Xbox Live is on a closed circuit (which kinda shut the door on the mod community).

A large memory card is more than enough room for saves and downloadable content but my biggest gripe is MS chosing to stick with DVD9 instead of using HD-DVD.   That would have been a great advantage (not only for developing games but most of hollywood is going with that new format) over sony's PS3.

As for nintendo, it's unlikely that it would be HD-DVD as well.  Nintendo confirmed that Res was BWC with GC which means it must read the inner track first which is just the opposite of DVD's drives.

[Myxtika1 Azn]

Ninja Gaiden does not allow you to save to a memory card.  That sucks because my friend wants all the costumes that I've freed up by finishing Very Hard Mode,  but I can't give it to him because of this issue.

[KDR_11k]

As for nintendo, it's unlikely that it would be HD-DVD as well. Nintendo confirmed that Res was BWC with GC which means it must read the inner track first which is just the opposite of DVD's drives.

Modchips made the GC read standard media, the Q read DVDs, you think Nintendo couldn't give the Rev a drive controller that can read both GC disks and (HD/BR) DVDs?

[Ymeegod]

Oh yeah forgot about the "Q" :0  Still doubtful (considering nintendo's past stance on multi-media consoles) but at least there's a glimmer of hope.

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo's stance is changing lately. Online OOTB, multimedia stuff for the GBA, ... Video playback in the Rev wouldn't surprise me especially now that Nintendo knows that it's an advantage and being rigid would just hurt them.

[nickmitch]

Check this out.

[KDR_11k]

THAT ancient mockup? Besides, that controller looks too PS2y, MS knows they have a better design than Sony.