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Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 26, 2011, 12:34:19 PM
Title: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 26, 2011, 12:34:19 PM
Sony is working on PlayStation 4 What has been taking them so long? Café is 2012, MS has plans to be ready before end of 2012... and Sony is just starting on PS4? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-05-26-sony-is-working-on-playstation-4
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Sony has confirmed that work on a "future platform" to follow the PS3 "is already under way".
Sony's executive vice president and chief financial officer Masaru Kato made the revelation on a conference call to investors today. He was asked to explain increased research and development (R&D) costs.
"For the home equipment the PS3 still has a product life," he said, "but this is a platform business, so for the future platform - when we'll be introducing what product I cannot discuss that - but our development work is already under way, so the costs are incurred there."
Kato's comments are in direct contrast those of Sony Computer Entertainment boss Kaz Hirai's. Hirai said, three months ago in March, that "a near-future PS4 or next-generation home console is not something that we are even debating now".
Hirai stressed that Sony wasn't "even at the half-way point" in PS3's lauded 10-year plan.
This console cycle may be destined to last longer than previous generations, but there are already rumours of top-tier publishing partners receiving prototype dev kits of Microsoft's new Xbox.
Meanwhile Nintendo has plans to formerly unveil Wii 2 - codenamed Project Cafe - at E3 next month.
Sony might be left out in the cold this time as xStream720 gets all the multiplat love.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on May 26, 2011, 12:41:17 PM
Oh the irony if the PS3 becomes the PS2 of the next generation. I'm not so surprise to see an uptick on the R&D since its clear Nintendo is making their move.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2011, 06:11:53 PM
With Cafe due to be shown at E3, it makes sense that we're hearing about successors for the other consoles as well. The PS4 might be years away but it looks good for Sony to have it be known that something is on the way so that they don't like they're behind the times while Nintendo goes forward. The goal is to convince us not to get all excited about Cafe because Sony the PS4 is on the way (in a couple years) and will top it (or so they'll imply). Hell, Sony did this with the Dreamcast.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 26, 2011, 06:33:46 PM
Sony: No Plans For PS3-type Investment For Future Consoles http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/05/27/sony_earnings/ (http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/05/27/sony_earnings/)
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Sony's massive initial expenditures for the PlayStation 3 lead to years of losses. This is something that apparently won't be repeated for future platforms.
During an investors briefing today (via Nikkei), Chief Financial Officer Masaru Kato was asked if Sony expects its games division to continue to maintain its recent profitability. Different from the major losses of Sony Group as a whole, the company's games business turned profitable over the fiscal year.
Kato noted that the main factor in the losses for the past few years has been the big difference in sales price and cost for the PS3 system. Sony even spent billions to create its own semi conductor facilities.
This is something that won't happen in the future. The semiconductor business is changing, said Kato. "It is no longer thinkable to have a huge initial financial investment like that of the PS3."
So there will be no $900 PS4 being sold for $600 this time around. But if Sony is just now increasing their R&D budget towards locking down specs for the next generation..... wouldn't that mean they are atleast 2 years out from having a chip ready to go unless they are using something off the shelf?
If they have been building a chip this whole time, then why the sudden budget increase unless they are just now pushing everything out of passive research and into aggressive? and even still, do you think it will lead to a rushed late 2013 launch following launches of both the Café & 720?
With Cafe due to be shown at E3, it makes sense that we're hearing about successors for the other consoles as well. The PS4 might be years away but it looks good for Sony to have it be known that something is on the way so that they don't like they're behind the times while Nintendo goes forward. The goal is to convince us not to get all excited about Cafe because Sony the PS4 is on the way (in a couple years) and will top it (or so they'll imply). Hell, Sony did this with the Dreamcast.
Actually, we've been hearing details about the X720 since before the Café. There was an article on the chip they chose back in Dec of last year I believe. Xbox720 - that's 2 full revolutions - to hit in 2012? ~Rumor/Speculation Thread~ (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=32855.msg645130#msg645130) mix that with the comments from the AMD guy over on NeoGAF (see the rumor consolidation in my sig) and we've had more info about X720 before we knew anything about Café.[/size][/font]
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2011, 07:49:30 PM
With the PS3 being such a beast how does Sony top it without an underwhelming "two PS3's duct taped together" situation? The PS3 was a dumb approach but they have to justify the existence of a new console some way. I don't think a minor upgrade is going to fly. Yeah the Wii did it but it also turned off the market that KNEW it was a meager upgrade in the process and it relied on an innovative gimmick. Sony already released the Move as a peripheral so merely including it wouldn't fly as a new system and I don't think Sony can come up with a neat gimmick like Nintendo can. They just don't have it in them.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Oblivion on May 26, 2011, 08:05:01 PM
PS3? A beast? I smell bullshit. It's starting to show it's age. Sure, Battlefield 3 may be awesome or whatever, but I'm waiting for Unreal's new engine. PS4 here I come.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 26, 2011, 08:42:15 PM
It always goes without saying that the three console makers always have their next console in the works. They pretty much begin work on the next console from the moment the last one enters into production. We may only start hearing about it now, but needless to say they've been in the works since 2006/2007.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: lolmonade on May 26, 2011, 09:46:03 PM
Count me out. Maybe it's because I don't play many PC games and don't have a state-of-the-art rig, but I don't see the need for an upgrade. Nintendo was the only one that was in a dire need to get to the current console industry standard for the sake of 3rd party support, but until I know a hardware refresh will result in a compelling new gaming experience, I'm sure I'll be sitting out this new generation until midway through like this past generation (with the exception of the Wii).
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on May 26, 2011, 09:46:31 PM
BnM, where are you getting the R&D numbers?
I think there is some confusion over the news. What is being reported basically is that building their own semi-conductor plant for the PS3 was a bad investment. They give no word on specs or even other investments. Simply that they are going to be smart from now on. While you can translate that to a meager PS4, I think that just means a more realistic product for the market which is very reminiscent of Microsofts business plan.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 26, 2011, 10:26:45 PM
It wasn't necessarily a bad investment building that semi-conductor plant, it was their mistaken belief that the PS3 would sell like crack and that they could extent their investment by expanding the uses for the CELL in other products. Of course none of it panned out leading to a massive over investment that effectively went idle. What made the plant a bad investment was when they couldn't leverage it to do anything else while paying a premium on their own internal product.
I believe they have increased their R&D because at least internally, they no longer believe in the "Ten Year Plan" which they had initially planned for and executed till now. Anybody with half a brain could have told them such a plan wouldn't work and now they have to do a crash program. Not the best way to go about things.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 26, 2011, 10:36:02 PM
I don't think I said anything about the power of a PS4 in this thread or mentioned any specific numbers related to R&D.
What I did do was relate a PS4 to how much the PS3 was reported to cost and what it sold for at launch. If you are referring to the "multiplat love" comment, I merely meant that N & MS will be out around end of 2012/early 2013 while Sony may not make an appearance till late 2014 if they are just now ramping up their R&D budget towards putting together a next gen system(unless they are gonna use pre-existing parts again). Console userbase lead may be the deciding factor of lead development in that case since all 3 consoles will probably be relatively close in power levels.
But once again, there was a rumor that Sony was planning on a PS3.5 console for next gen due to financial circumstances and cost of future proofing for another 10 year plan.
p.s. PS2 is on a 11 year plan and running right now. intentional or not, that is impressive.
Title: New PPC Cell = 2x PS3?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 29, 2011, 10:20:23 PM
Sony & IBM creating new PPC Cell based chip that should be in PS4 http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/Industry/F5C6F8A6?page=1 (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Gaming/Industry/F5C6F8A6?page=1)
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Sony, who announced a $3 Billion plus loss last, week is pinning their future on a brand new processor which some are speculating will lead to a new Playstation 4.
What we have been told is that Sony is working on a very fast processor which is being developed with IBM, who was the original architect with Sony and Toshiba of the Cell processor, which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years.
IBM sources claim that the new multi core PowerPC processor, which Big Blue, has spent several years developing is now part of a joint development project with the Japanese company.
Sony recently moved to buy back the Toshiba Cell factory in Nagasaki for $600 million with some tipping that this will be used to manufacture the processor for both Sony Toshiba and IBM devices.
The new 32nm Cell processor is tipped to be capable of up to 16 SPEs which is twice as fast as the current Cell processor according to IBM leaks.
Japanese sources claim that Sony is gearing up to manufacture the Cell processor in bulk with some analysts tipping that the new processor will also appear in Sony notebooks and built into new Sony Bravia TVs.
Intel sources have said that they are also working on a new processor that will be ideal for future gaming consoles as well as for use in devices that are both gaming console and media hubs.
Is Sony to finally realize that multi-device cell processing cluster that was talked about back before PS3?
And I also remember IBM saying they were already hard at work on chips for both Nintendo and Sony, so maybe this cell based PPC tech has also made it's way into the Café.
Also are there any tech heads out there that can break down what 16 SPE's means and how that compares to PS3 for the rest us?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 29, 2011, 10:21:38 PM
How in the Hell did you make this post only 16 seconds after your other post about the new Cell chip?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 29, 2011, 10:26:19 PM
I actually posted it here. the forum made it a new thread somehow through a browser error. I just hit submit again since it didn't appear to work the first time.
i also wanted to point something out that didn't sound right in this rumor article
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the original architect with Sony and Toshiba of the Cell processor, which has been used by both Sony and Microsoft to power their gaming processors for nearly 10 years.
I wasn't aware that 360 was Cell powered. but that's probably because it's not..... or was it?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2011, 10:42:52 PM
I wasn't aware that 360 was Cell powered. but that's probably because it's not..... or was it?
New book from IBMers: Sony suckered into funding Xbox chip (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/01/new-book-from-ibmers-sony-suckered-into-funding-xbox-chip.ars)
I read this a while ago. Apparently, ideas/work were shared between the groups building each chip. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 29, 2011, 11:37:58 PM
I wonder if Sony was "suckered" into partially funding Nintendo's processor this time too or if it is a completely different PPC than the one Sony is currently working on.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 30, 2011, 02:04:28 AM
How in the Hell did you make this post only 16 seconds after your other post about the new Cell chip?
I think it should be obvious by now that BnM has superhuman abilities when it comes to posting rumors.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 30, 2011, 05:34:59 AM
I can't believe they are doing the same thing twice. Why the hell are they still pissing around with the CELL?! Trade most of the SPEs in for a couple more general purpose cores for more AI and use the savings for a better GFX chip. I mean JC, someone is going to have a field day with 2 PS3s getting taped together jokes.
Seriously, I have no idea why you would want to decode double digit number of H264 with any TV. Even Marty McFly Jr only watched 6 channels simultaneously as a joke.
If Nintendo keeps using a PPC chip, then yeah, Sony would be helping to pay from some of it through parallel development.
I am guessing Intel is making a more graphic oriented Sandybridge?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 30, 2011, 06:21:55 AM
If Nintendo keeps using a PPC chip, then yeah, Sony would be helping to pay from some of it through parallel development.
Sony develops the processor; Nintendo develops everything else; and then both of them steal from each other...
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on May 30, 2011, 12:38:00 PM
Gotta love how Sony is all "we have to do something different this time" and yet here they are with pipedreams about some magic processor that will not only be used in the PS4 but in everything else as well. This is the exact same thing! The whole reason the PS3 was so overpriced is that they tied in the Cell and Blu Ray in with it so they could use it to push those technologies for use outside of gaming. This was the fucking mistake in the first place! Nintendo, however, designs their hardware for efficient use as a videogame system. It's just one product and that method lets them make a profit even if the console isn't well received, like with the Gamecube.
Sony needs to make a PS4 and not be thinking anything else except the PS4.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 30, 2011, 12:56:02 PM
Well, I doubt the PS4 is going to be $600. The cell processor and Blu-ray technology isn't expensive or cutting edge like it was back in 2006, and in 2014 its going to be even cheaper still. The only way the PS4 would end up being $600 is if Sony went nuts with the specs, or if they tried to shove another proprietary media format down our throats like they did with Blu-ray.... Sony sure seems to love developing and pushing their own proprietary media formats, so I actually wouldn't be surprised if that does happen, but there really isn't any need for it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ThePerm on May 30, 2011, 08:39:18 PM
yeah Sony doesnt need to build a new semi conductor facility for ps4 because they built one for ps3, all they have to do is print different chips.
oh and the h264 decoding is sweet in my opinion. Theoretically you could use it for decoding very complex voxel maps in the future on the fly. Each frame would be a layer of voxels. So if your decoding double digits you're loading huge worlds very quickly.
Title: PS4 = PSCasual
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 21, 2011, 02:37:27 AM
PS4 is to PS3 as Wii was to GC!? Sony to double down on Nintendo's innovation of.... casual!? http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/9316.html (http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/9316.html)
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"It's hard to say right now. I do not think we'll have a console with a lot better graphics than the PS3 currently offered. I believe the future will be to offer consumers better and more accessible experience. The aim will be to make more people enter the world of video games and try to design titles for women." - SCEE vice president of Spain/Portugal James Armstrong
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 21, 2011, 02:42:54 AM
This is what I was expecting, because there really isn't all that much that can be done to improve on the PS3's graphics even if that was Sony's objective. The graphical wall has been hit until holodeck technology shows up.
One potential thing about this new focus by Sony is it may cause some of their hardcore audience to abandon it, but that depends a lot on what Microsoft is going to do. Will the Xbox 420 be the sole console dedicated to the hardcore gamer?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 21, 2011, 02:53:35 AM
This is what I was expecting, because there really isn't all that much that can be done to improve on the PS3's graphics even if that was Sony's objective. The graphical wall has been hit until holodeck technology shows up.
That is very wrong. Graphics can do much more. The problem is that it will cost far too much in both time and money to achieve them. PS360 leapfrogged in tech over the previous gen and cost skyrocketed because of it. We should just now be getting to that level of graphics in the console space if we want to keep things affordable, so it makes sense to slow things down a bit.
2 PS3's duct taped together will be a very capable machine. Especially if they stick a well thought out GPU in there this time.
Assuming this is true though, that really does leave the ball in MS's court. Do they continue with the tech arms race towards real-time movie grade CG in hopes that Sony will continue to spend and compete? Or do they continue on their current path of expansion towards the casual market?
MS is on deck to show it's hand at E3 2012, Nintendo is already all in, but I'm not sure if Sony will be at that table too.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ShyGuy on June 21, 2011, 02:58:47 AM
How Microsoft plays it hand depends on how big their kinect/casual sales end up for holiday 2011, and how much their media center "stealth" program makes in-roads into the living room.
If those both flop, their only play they have with the Xbox 720 is to appeal to the hardcore, which is the most expensive option.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 21, 2011, 06:11:34 AM
Going the Wii route seems like what they have to do. It's Sony so you never know though, they're determined to use the PS as a tool to leverage their **** into everything.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on June 22, 2011, 12:09:20 PM
If Sony goes the Wii route they can expect me to not purchase it. I'm not interested in "more accessible" games and if there is no significant hardware boost, there is no point. The Wii just gave me more Gamecube games with crappier controls. I'm not going to buy a new system to play games that COULD be made for the PS3 and just aren't for pretty much arbitrary reasons. The Wii model is a gyp.
Sony has the core gamer market. The Wii demonstrates that if you make too many concessions to non-gamers and casuals, the core will be turned off. So what does Sony want to do?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 22, 2011, 01:08:15 PM
It looks like Sony and Nintendo are converging to the same target in their next consoles. Nintendo already has the Casuals and is trying to make itself more hardcore; whereas Sony already has the hardcore and is now trying to go after the casuals. So they are both coveting what the other company has and it looks like they are probably going to meet somewhere in the middle.
Its good for Nintendo that Sony isn't planning on making the PS4 be some huge leap forward over the PS3, because the Wii U certainly isn't going to be a huge leap over the PS3 either. This means they will be more or less on par, I think. That's great for multi-platform games support.
It is still up in the air what Microsoft is aiming for, though. Is the next Xbox going to follow a similar more moderate path? Or is Microsoft going to go all out and leave both competitors in the dust?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Honestly for MS I really see them having dedicated hardware for Kinect again. I think that will be the biggest change.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2011, 03:36:34 PM
Or is Microsoft going to go all out and leave both competitors in the dust?
The shareholders have made it clear that Microsoft can't do that next gen. The Xbox brand is still billions of dollars in the hole. Only in the last few years has Microsoft finally started to make money but they're still no wear close to making up the billions lost. Because of this the games division of Microsoft is not going to be able to release a system that was as powerful for it's time as the 360 was that cost billions more to make.
This is why if the Wii U is as powerful as some of the rumors say it is, it can easily be a PS2 type of machine that can get ports from the other systems since there's a good chance Microsoft and Sony new systems won't be that much more powerful this time around.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: blackfootsteps on June 22, 2011, 07:59:38 PM
@Luigi Dude
I wonder how big a component the RRoD problem was of those losses. It had to be significant.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on June 22, 2011, 08:17:41 PM
It cost Microsoft a cool Billion+ dollars, years of bad press and lost good will. "Significant" is an understatement. It was near ended their chances this gen, but somehow survived propped up by unusually rabid fanboys that were willing to buy multiple new boxes (Especially before the warranty extension) or wait for the month turnaround multiple times until they got a machine that wasn't "Refurbished". The failure rate was so high that even if you don't own a 360, you would more than likely knew someone who did, and it broke down on them at least once if not multiple times.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 22, 2011, 08:55:21 PM
It cost them more than a Billion. $1Billion is just what they set aside specifically for the RRoD problems before shuffling their divisions around to hide the losses. They spent untold millions on the problem before that pre-pay in 2007/2008.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 22, 2011, 09:58:20 PM
$1 billion isn't all that much for Microsoft, though. Bill Gates has like $100 billion himself, and he is just one person associated with the company.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 23, 2011, 10:36:45 PM
If Nintendo and Sony both have similarly powerful systems Microsoft has to follow them even if they can take the loss. There is no way that just the xbox would be able to support developers in such a high end environment unless it starts destroying sales records. Unless both the WiiU and PS4 bombed in this hypothetical situation MS would be in a Wii like situation with none of the benefits thanks to the much higher development fees and an almost assuredly much smaller userbase. Xbox is shitty enough for Japanese games already but imagine it without the PS3 for the games to be ported to and from.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 23, 2011, 10:37:10 PM
How much of the Wii U controller do you think Sony will copy?
they've copied every single one of their controller innovations so far and they made a mistake by halfassing the motion controls at first. They have to be thinking about how they can take the controller idea right now.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2011, 12:07:36 AM
How much of the Wii U controller do you think Sony will copy?
they've copied every single one of their controller innovations so far and they made a mistake by halfassing the motion controls at first. They have to be thinking about how they can take the controller idea right now.
They did. Its called a Vita. By the time the next console comes out they will be able to lower the cost of most everything in it and make the Vitaxis for the next controller. Just like a Vita with a smaller processor and no way to play portable games or you could just use your Vita.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 24, 2011, 02:44:24 AM
If Nintendo and Sony both have similarly powerful systems Microsoft has to follow them even if they can take the loss. There is no way that just the xbox would be able to support developers in such a high end environment unless it starts destroying sales records. Unless both the WiiU and PS4 bombed in this hypothetical situation MS would be in a Wii like situation with none of the benefits thanks to the much higher development fees and an almost assuredly much smaller userbase. Xbox is shitty enough for Japanese games already but imagine it without the PS3 for the games to be ported to and from.
That's right, Microsoft needs to have a profitable business model in the next gen. As the chart shows, Microsoft has only recently started to finally climb out of the hole they dug with the Xbox brand from 2001-2007. The cost of the 360 alone lost them several billion and that's not counting the billion more RRoD lost them. If Microsoft was to release a much more powerful system like the 360, they'd instantly lose all the money they made in the last 4 years and end up making the current hole much bigger.
Even though Microsofts a huge company, the shareholders of the company are not happy with the fact they've still lost 5 billion on it, and if the gaming division was to lose another several billion on just releasing a new system alone, I'd expect the Microsoft games division to be shut down and everyone involved with it fired from the company. Companies like Microsoft are in the market solely to make money and if you have a certain division that's almost a decade old and continues to lose money instead of make money, it won't be around for long.
If the people running Microsofts games division want to keep their jobs, they'll need to release a new system that's actually profitable this time. Because if they release another 360, they're all gone.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 24, 2011, 04:06:56 AM
If Nintendo and Sony both have similarly powerful systems Microsoft has to follow them even if they can take the loss. There is no way that just the xbox would be able to support developers in such a high end environment unless it starts destroying sales records. Unless both the WiiU and PS4 bombed in this hypothetical situation MS would be in a Wii like situation with none of the benefits thanks to the much higher development fees and an almost assuredly much smaller userbase. Xbox is shitty enough for Japanese games already but imagine it without the PS3 for the games to be ported to and from.
But the games do not need to take full advantage of the more powerful hardware in order for them to be ported to it. Let's assume Microsoft takes another big loss and leapfrogs the competition with a system that leaves them in the dust. So does this mean PS4/WiiU games can't be ported to it? No, they can still be ported to it. They just won't take full advantage of the more powerful hardware is all.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 24, 2011, 07:21:09 AM
If Nintendo and Sony both have similarly powerful systems Microsoft has to follow them even if they can take the loss. There is no way that just the xbox would be able to support developers in such a high end environment unless it starts destroying sales records. Unless both the WiiU and PS4 bombed in this hypothetical situation MS would be in a Wii like situation with none of the benefits thanks to the much higher development fees and an almost assuredly much smaller userbase. Xbox is shitty enough for Japanese games already but imagine it without the PS3 for the games to be ported to and from.
But the games do not need to take full advantage of the more powerful hardware in order for them to be ported to it. Let's assume Microsoft takes another big loss and leapfrogs the competition with a system that leaves them in the dust. So does this mean PS4/WiiU games can't be ported to it? No, they can still be ported to it. They just won't take full advantage of the more powerful hardware is all.
But that destroys the reason for buying a more expensive, graphically intensive system. If there is a huge jump in graphics it would also make ports have to compete with games that actually use that technology making them most likely sell like **** to the people who want the big expensive graphics box.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on June 24, 2011, 10:42:59 AM
Neither Microsoft nor Sony should be in any rush to put out new systems. PS3 and 360 are selling well, they have great support and no one seems to be having issues with the power of the current hardware. Both companies are in pretty good shape and WiiU isn't going to change that. WiiU may end up still being the "and" console outside of Nintendo fans who only buy Nintendo hardware. WiiU is more powerful but only Nintendo and the rare 3rd party exclusive will ever truly take advantage of that extra performance boost. It would just seem like a waste to start over. Nintendo will always be Nintendo off in bizarro world doing their own thing and that shouldn't affect Microsoft and Sony. In fact, releasing new hardware only to leapfrog Nintendo may have a more damaging effect if 3rd parties don't feel the need to move on. Microsoft and Sony should enjoy their established install base for as long as they can.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2011, 10:49:38 AM
Yes, I see in the end a Revision being released not a full overhaul. Like a Smaller PS3/360 with maybe an upgrade to the Wireless and Hard Drive speed. A 360 with a Multi-disk loader built-in so if Developers actually need to use more than a DVD can handle since that will be common to have Media like that you could just load all the discs for a game at one time. Items like that.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 24, 2011, 01:37:41 PM
I've said it somewhere before, but just looking at current 360 sales, you wouldn't think MS was gonna release a new console anytime soon. Too bad the rumors suggest otherwise, but at the same time, you wanna strike while the iron is hot, and people just now buying 360 will not be the same people buying 720's, so it's not like the 360 will just stop selling.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2011, 01:59:44 PM
Yeah but, I be ready to go but, wouldn't pull the trigger until its determined the WiiU is a real threat. At current time it really isn't, except for those who have used it.
Title: PS4 Reveal Next year?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 24, 2011, 05:34:56 PM
MS is ready to go. They should have dev kits out by early 2012 at the latest. Doesn't mean they can't send the final chip back to the oven though and let it cook some more if they wan tot continue to milk this gen a little longer. But that is a discussion for a different topic [Xbox720 in 2012!? (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=32855.0)]
now back on topic Sony to reveal PlayStation4 sometime in 2012 too!? There is no way Sony is gonna give MS another year headstart especially if Nintendo has already launched too... right? http://www.industrygamers.com/news/playstation-4-unveiling-next-year-rumor/ (http://www.industrygamers.com/news/playstation-4-unveiling-next-year-rumor/)
Quote
IndustryGamers has now heard from industry sources (at a top developer) who wished not to be quoted that Sony is looking to unveil a PlayStation 4 sometime next year as well.
So they are gonna unveil in 2012, but that doesn't mean they are gonna launch in 2012. I'm sure Sony wants to make sure they have a seat at the table, since they don't have the luxury of saying "The Next Gen Starts When We Say It Does" just like they didn't last time either, and definitely want to join in on spoiling any Nintendo and/or MS party if possible. Chances are though if previous rumors still hold true, is that Sony will be selling dreams based on hypothetical demos as they would barely have an actual working system since they would have just started fresh on it again earlier this year. I guess it's possible that they might go back to the previous design which I believe was rumored to be that PS3.5 which the comments from CEO of Sony Spain/Portugal would suggest. But I doubt they will show their system at next E3 if MS doesn't pull a Wii and show off a 360+ (Xbox420) or if MS doesn't announce a late 2012/early 2013 release date.
Quote from: Michael Pachter
"I think it's unlikely [that PS4 will be announced in 2012]. Wii U isn't going to pressure anyone, it's Nintendo's catch up to this cycle, and the other guys are going to see if the tablet integration is worth copying first. That means nobody is going to finalize specs till they see if Wii U succeeds. I am sticking to 2014, so an 'unveil' in 2013,"
Quote from: Colin Sebastian
"I think Sony introducing Vita at a low price point and likely lowering the PS3 price later this year will ultimately provide a gauge on the overall health of the PlayStation business. I think after that point Sony will be in a better position to speak about any next generation console. For now, I think the focus at Sony should be on ensuring a steady lineup of quality first and third party games for existing platforms,"
Quote from: David Cole
"I would not bet on seeing a PS4 at the next E3. Sony really needs to push out the lifespan of the PS3 and I think Sony's investors would not be happy with a new console system. It would mean a major loss and an early end to the PS3, which if it can last several years longer could start making some decent money for the company. Yes, they will feel pressure from the competition, but I think pressure from investors and the financial community wins the day."
Quote from: Jesse Divnich
"Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all have a similar goal; they want their consoles to be constantly powered on in the household - from watching movies, television, and of course playing games. But as the mobile, tablet, and social sector grow, it is forcing gamers to go outside of the traditional console experience to interact with these emerging style of games. Of course, I do admit that Microsoft is certainly the forerunner and their recent E3 2011 presentation certainly paints a clear picture that the future of consoles are not 'video game consoles,' but a complete entertainment medium." "I don't feel the Wii U is a threat to either Microsoft or Sony's current platforms. I believe the biggest threat remain themselves and their attempt to elongate this current cycle. The data is pretty clear; it is incredibly tough to launch successful new IPs late in a cycle, as there is simply too much consumer muscle memory that hinders our desire to play new IPs. Consumers are more open to trying new IPs and new style of games when the technology itself is relatively new. It is very tough for consumers to break habit,"
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 25, 2011, 01:37:24 AM
Neither Microsoft nor Sony should be in any rush to put out new systems. PS3 and 360 are selling well, they have great support and no one seems to be having issues with the power of the current hardware. Both companies are in pretty good shape and WiiU isn't going to change that.
Xbox and PS3 aren't selling that well. The last NPD numbers have the Xbox barely beating the Wii (24k) and the Wii beat the PS3 by 59K. If that is enough for Nintendo to release a new console with their massive install base it sure as hell should make MS and Sony want to release new consoles. Nintendo stops selling record high levels and just about matches the others and I hear "Release a new console, no one is buying yours." Xbox and PS3 continue to sell at the level the Wii is now and its "They're doing great, no new console necessary."
Yeah but, I be ready to go but, wouldn't pull the trigger until its determined the WiiU is a real threat. At current time it really isn't, except for those who have used it.
By the time the WiiU became a real threat they would already be dead. Either they put RD on the console years in advance followed by the giving out devkits years in advance or they let Nintendo get a 2 or 3 year head start.
Pachter doesn't deserve the attention he gets. Mr. "Nintendo needs to release an HD console now. " He recommends waiting 2 years to release to see if the tablet is a hit. You can't wait like that in this industry. If it is a hit by then it's too late. Me tooing in there years later with a move/kinect device just wouldn't cut it. For better or worse they've really got to make their bets before the race starts.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 25, 2011, 06:11:21 PM
Last month was May...typically a slow month. I for one don't want any of the big 3 releasing a new console any time soon (okay, Nintendo can), because I work full time in console repair...so I kind of need people to own the old consoles, and need the prices to stay put so that it's worth getting them fixed.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2011, 03:33:05 AM
Last month was May...typically a slow month. I for one don't want any of the big 3 releasing a new console any time soon (okay, Nintendo can), because I work full time in console repair...so I kind of need people to own the old consoles, and need the prices to stay put so that it's worth getting them fixed.
But what if the newer consoles have a high failure rate? Then there should be a lot of business for you.
You could also use your console repair experience to do like some people do and take old consoles and then make them into portables. Then you could sell those for a profit.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ThePerm on June 26, 2011, 06:58:50 AM
Hits are supposed to be sudden, if you spend to long looking at them youll avoid them all together.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2011, 10:46:29 AM
Xbox and PS3 aren't selling that well. The last NPD numbers have the Xbox barely beating the Wii (24k) and the Wii beat the PS3 by 59K. If that is enough for Nintendo to release a new console with their massive install base it sure as hell should make MS and Sony want to release new consoles. Nintendo stops selling record high levels and just about matches the others and I hear "Release a new console, no one is buying yours." Xbox and PS3 continue to sell at the level the Wii is now and its "They're doing great, no new console necessary."
Aren't both PS3 and 360 selling better than they did last year? I consider that selling well, especially in their 5th and 6th year on the market. Nintendo needs to release new hardware because the Wii is basically 10 year old technology and no one is making games for the Wii anymore, not even Nintendo. Nintendo of America has all but given up on the Wii. I kind of feel like the only reason Skyward Sword is even still coming out on the Wii is because, unlike Twilight Princess, Nintendo can't just repackage the game with different controls on WiiU; they would have to rebuild the entire game in HD.
On PS3 and 360, the hardware is selling steadily and the games keep coming. They don't have to launch new hardware even though they probably will sooner rather than later. My point is that Nintendo launching next year doesn't and shouldn't really affect what Sony and MS are doing. They're still going to get all the 3rd party support while Nintendo caters to their segment of the market.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2011, 03:41:02 PM
They may do that anyway somewhere down the line. It probably wouldn't be a WiiU launch title the way Twilight Princess was on the Wii, but it could happen a year or two down the road. Lots of old games have been taken and remastered in HD, so its definitely not without precedent.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 26, 2011, 03:42:48 PM
I actually do have plans for making portable Xbox 360 consoles. Well, not so much portable as just installing TFT LCDs into the casing so you can play them with or without a TV.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2011, 07:45:28 PM
They may do that anyway somewhere down the line. It probably wouldn't be a WiiU launch title the way Twilight Princess was on the Wii, but it could happen a year or two down the road. Lots of old games have been taken and remastered in HD, so its definitely not without precedent.
I meant, redo the graphics entirely so it wouldn't still look like a Wii game. Think more along the lines of Eternal Darkness from N64 to Gamecube than say God of War Collection.
And I'm not sure Nintendo would remaster Skyward Sword. The Wind Waker seemed like a perfect candidate for a New Play Control Wii game and that never materialized, unfortunately.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 27, 2011, 12:07:27 AM
Wind Waker is the perfect candidate for a WiiU New Play Control title too. HD and a tingle tuner in your hands... optional wiimote+ support too.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2011, 12:16:15 PM
Wind Waker is the perfect candidate for a WiiU New Play Control title too. HD and a tingle tuner in someone elses hands... optional wiimote+ support too.
I actually like to play WW with Wiimote plus Nunchuck. A lot of the time playing through I'm going, "If I could only Point to use this Grapple, boomerange, etc."
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 27, 2011, 09:44:34 PM
Aren't both PS3 and 360 selling better than they did last year? I consider that selling well, especially in their 5th and 6th year on the market. Nintendo needs to release new hardware because the Wii is basically 10 year old technology and no one is making games for the Wii anymore, not even Nintendo.
Now you are judging the systems by entirely different standards. Xbox and PS3 are selling a little better than last year but as of last month they are still doing about the same as the Wii. Why are those numbers not so good with the Wii but great with the other systems? They aren't. Having an okay year that is on par with your competition's worst year doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for not updating your product, especially when that opponent is.
Also the reason Nintendo isn't making as many games for the Wii anymore is because they are releasing a new sytem and are making games for it, not the other way around.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on June 27, 2011, 10:40:07 PM
Now you are judging the systems by entirely different standards. Xbox and PS3 are selling a little better than last year but as of last month they are still doing about the same as the Wii. Why are those numbers not so good with the Wii but great with the other systems? They aren't. Having an okay year that is on par with your competition's worst year doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for not updating your product, especially when that opponent is.
The numbers are not good for the Wii and good for the competition because of how each company reached those numbers. Wii sales fell sharply and PS3/360 gained steadily. That means Wii sales aren't going to get better than they were and will likely keep falling, especially when there are few new games coming out. The Wii had an amazing run, better than anyone, even Nintendo, could have predicting. However, we're seeing signs of it ending. The competition's sales, on the other hand, are rising and seem poised to continue rising. Why, then, should they be in a rush to push out new hardware? Look, they're going to anyway. I know this and I never claimed otherwise. However, with sales getting better in years during a console cycle when they traditional don't and support showing no signs of waning, I'm simply asking "Why?" Because Nintendo is? That's ridiculous. If demand for PS3 and 360 has never been higher from consumers and 3rd parties, it makes less sense to drop them and start over with new hardware.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2011, 03:19:43 AM
I'm simply asking "Why?" Because Nintendo is? That's ridiculous. If demand for PS3 and 360 has never been higher from consumers and 3rd parties, it makes less sense to drop them and start over with new hardware.
You better believe they do fear Nintendo's new system. The Wii in it's prime was averaging over a million units around the world every month and just slaughtering the competition in every single territory. If Nintendo is able to repeat the same thing with the Wii U, but with actual good third party support which the system looks like it might have this time that will keep a lot of people more interested in the system, that would be devastating to Microsoft and Sony.
Even though there's no guarantee the Wii U will be able to repeat the same success the Wii had, I doubt Microsoft and Sony are going to want to wait and see.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on June 28, 2011, 08:56:22 AM
As a matter of fact, I don't believe they fear Nintendo or WiiU. Wii dominated hardware sales, but 3rd party software sales were far less impressive. Software is where these companies make a bulk of their money (in this industry). Even if WiiU gets 3rd party ports, PS3 and 360 still get those games. I don't know how many PS3/360 owners are going to drop their systems for WiiU. I don't think Sony and Microsoft are dismissing Nintendo and they certainly should not. However, I doubt they're shaking in their boots as the WiiU is far less radical than the Wii. Nintendo's primary audience for WiiU are Nintendo fans and if they can convince casual gamers to upgrade which I have my doubts. I think WiiU will be successful but I don't see a repeat performance. So, no, there's no need to panic or fear. Sony/MS can continue selling and supporting their current consoles without having to push for successors.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 28, 2011, 03:17:48 PM
As a matter of fact, I don't believe they fear Nintendo or WiiU. Wii dominated hardware sales, but 3rd party software sales were far less impressive. Software is where these companies make a bulk of their money (in this industry). Even if WiiU gets 3rd party ports, PS3 and 360 still get those games. I don't know how many PS3/360 owners are going to drop their systems for WiiU. I don't think Sony and Microsoft are dismissing Nintendo and they certainly should not. However, I doubt they're shaking in their boots as the WiiU is far less radical than the Wii. Nintendo's primary audience for WiiU are Nintendo fans and if they can convince casual gamers to upgrade which I have my doubts. I think WiiU will be successful but I don't see a repeat performance. So, no, there's no need to panic or fear. Sony/MS can continue selling and supporting their current consoles without having to push for successors.
Microsoft and Sony have made it very clear they want to get the casual family audience that Nintendo was so successful with on the Wii. This is why Microsoft has spent so much money and advertising on Kinect so they can make themselves better known with that audience. Even though there's no guarantee the Wii U will be able to get the Wii Sport/Fit crowd to upgrade, like I said before, I doubt Microsoft and Sony are going to want to wait and see, because doing so could allow this to happen again.
This is how big business work. You never allow your biggest competition to have too much time unopposed on a market. Microsoft and Sony both saw what happened when they ignored the family casual audience this gen and how the Wii was able to pick up the majority of that market, leading to the insane sales it got between mid 2008 to the end of 2009. They're not going to make the same mistake this time.
Title: PS4 w/ Kinect-like Controls in 2012
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 04, 2011, 12:40:56 PM
Website with a very bad rumor track record reports "insider info" about PS4
PlayStation 4 to start production @ end of 2011 to also feature Kinect-like motion controls http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110704PD202.html (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110704PD202.html)
Quote
Sony will have Taiwan-based partners begin production of PlayStation 4 (PS4) featuring body movement-based control like Kinect at the end of 2011 for launch in 2012, according to Taiwan-based component makers.
Foxconn and Pegatron Technology, assemblers of PS3, will undertake assembly of PS4 as well, the sources pointed out. The planned shipment volume of PS4 in 2012 is at least 20 million units, the sources indicated.
I have no doubts that Sony will push forward with their EyeToy motion control stuff that they've been doing since PS2, but I wonder if they are gonna double down on it and go for 3D cameras or something. Combine it with move, and things start to get really interesting if you have ALOT of space to game with it.
but 20 million units by end of 2012!? I seriously doubt it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on July 04, 2011, 12:53:09 PM
I could see Sony releasing a machine that is only a minor upgrade in power from the PS3 but, has fully integrated Kinect and Move together with dedicated hardware to their processing.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Enner on July 05, 2011, 07:11:34 PM
Would Sony benefit from such a half step just to have a new box alongside the Wii U?
A 2012 release for the Playstation 4 seems so stupid crazy with the Playstation 3 increasing its strides. I can't think of a good reason why Sony would want a new box out in 2012.
I doubt the time table of the rumor is true.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 05, 2011, 08:04:17 PM
I can't think of a good reason why Sony would want a new box out in 2012.
Keeping up with the competition isn't a good enough reason for you?
Honestly, I don't think it will happen in 2012 because if it was going to happen we would have probably heard something at E3 about it. Maybe 2013 is more likely.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Enner on July 05, 2011, 09:54:47 PM
I can't think of a good reason why Sony would want a new box out in 2012.
Keeping up with the competition isn't a good enough reason for you?
To be honest, I think they're ahead in the areas a new box can help. Or at least ahead enough to not need a new console in 2012. There are plenty more PS3s Sony can sell before they talk about a successor.
A 2012 timing for a PS4 or a Xbox3 just seems too early given all the news of sales and stuff. It seems that the PS3 and X360 have enough life in them for a good 1-2 years before the next upgrade. Then again, it does make some sense for Sony publicly to say they have a new console when Nintendo has one as well.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on July 05, 2011, 10:26:49 PM
*shrug* I think either one of them would do well enough if when the WiiU comes out they also time a universal price drop of $10 on their games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on July 05, 2011, 11:25:08 PM
*shrug* I think either one of them would do well enough if when the WiiU comes out they also time a universal price drop of $10 on their games.
That's a joke. A game price drop will never happen. Did you forget about the Game Industry Deathwatch thread? The guys that are even making money now are doing it by pumping out sequels. Which incidently is one reason why many companies want new consoles, they want to create new franchises.
A 2012 timing for a PS4 or a Xbox3 just seems too early given all the news of sales and stuff. It seems that the PS3 and X360 have enough life in them for a good 1-2 years before the next upgrade. Then again, it does make some sense for Sony publicly to say they have a new console when Nintendo has one as well.
On the last months sales chart Wii beat the PS3. In 2010 Wii still outsold the competition in both Software and Hardware even in the US. The "Wii is sucking and the hd consoles are doing awesome" meme just isn't true. We have a situation where Wii has lapped their opponents and now that its reached them again it slowed down to about match their pace. When the the opponent edges ahead of Wii slightly for a little while they aren't doing well. The xbox and ps3 also aren't going to suddenly magically increase their sales every year now, especially when a new system comes out with apparently better graphics and a new hook.
I think PS4 is unlikely for 2012 simply because we haven't heard much about it and I don't think Sony is big on keeping secrets like Nintendo. I expect PS4 to be out in 2013.
Edit: On a completely unrelated I don't want to start a new thread for, how reliable is the PS3 hardware? I've been thinking about picking up a used console cheap and I'm avoiding old 360s for the obvious reason.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 06, 2011, 12:25:32 AM
Edit: On a completely unrelated I don't want to start a new thread for, how reliable is the PS3 hardware? I've been thinking about picking up a used console cheap and I'm avoiding old 360s for the obvious reason.
Make sure you get a slim model. The old model had problems with a yellow light of death, from what I understand.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: stevey on July 06, 2011, 12:43:34 AM
Would Sony benefit from such a half step just to have a new box alongside the Wii U?
A 2012 release for the Playstation 4 seems so stupid crazy with the Playstation 3 increasing its strides. I can't think of a good reason why Sony would want a new box out in 2012.
Just changing their keys would be a fantastic reason. Doubling the graphics card abilities so they can pump out 3D 1080p X2 at 60fps with a moderate boost of ram is all they need to add to get away with it in the eye of their fanboys...
Title: All 3 Next Gen Consoles to use AMD!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 07, 2011, 12:58:59 PM
Rumor: All 3 Next Gen Consoles to use AMD GPU!http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/07/07/e3_rumors_on_next_generation_console_hardware/
Quote
The Big GPU News
What looks to be a "done deal" at this point is that AMD will be the GPU choice on all three next generation consoles. Yes, all the big guns in the console world, Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony, are looking very much to be part of Team AMD for GPU. That is correct, NVIDIA, "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" But NVIDIA already knew this, now you do too.
That will make porting between consoles VERY Very easy.
MS & Sony may use AMD for the CPU too... but I doubt Sony would ditch Cell at this point.
Quote
The Big CPU News
Let's start with what we think is most solid on the CPU side of things. Nintendo looks to thoroughly entrenched in the IBM camp and using a new custom 45nm multi-core (most likely quad) processor. This one is fully cooked at this point.
It is highly likely that Microsoft's 3rd generation Xbox will be sporting a new IBM cell processor as well although it is slightly, ever so slightly possible, that this could change. It recent public statements Microsoft has also led us to believe that it may delay plans for the next generation Xbox for a an additional year or two due to the success of Kinect.
Looking towards the Sony PS4, we hear it is still unsettled between some kind of Bulldozer (would most likely be an APU) variant and a newer updated 32nm IBM cell processor. This one appears to have flip flopped back and forth a few times but it will likely firm up very soon.
Sony to use a Bulldozer APU & Cell Processor....!? that seems like a lot of processing power.
If MS was rumored to be using a Fusion APU but now also another cell variant, MS could be aiming for a lot of processing power too.
Now let's hope that Nintendo's Power7 variant is up to par and that their R770 variant can also keep up too.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on July 07, 2011, 01:04:40 PM
I can see Sony including a Cell processor for BC reasons but, would either of them really go with doubling the horses. They are in a position where they could do a Wii Style upgrade and offload some of the accessory processing, Kinect and Move. Maybe some of the Social items as well. Be in fine shape. No reason to jump super far ahead.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Enner on July 07, 2011, 02:59:26 PM
All three home consoles with CPUs and GPUs from the same brands. One can wonder why there's three instead of one!
Kidding aside, this sounds like good news for AMD. nVidia is expanding in to the mobile market so it's nice for AMD to do something other than PC graphics cards. Granted, the only thing that has changed is getting Sony to use their chips.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 07, 2011, 04:10:07 PM
The manufacturer may be the same, but that doesn't mean its going to be the same model and perhaps not even the same architecture.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Shaymin on July 07, 2011, 10:14:15 PM
Sony going to an AMD processor would be a problem for their back-compat since they used nVidia on the PS3. Unless, of course, backwards compatibility is a last-gen feature.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 08, 2011, 07:50:09 PM
They don't do it on the PS3, so they probably won't on the 4.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 08, 2011, 07:53:31 PM
It's a cost issue on the PS3. If they design their hardware better next time around, it shouldn't be an issue. Also, I think BC is a lot more important to the PS4 than it was to the PS3. I doubt Sony will be selling 100,000 PS3s a month well past the launch of the PS4 the way they did PS2s after the PS3.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2011, 09:21:47 PM
It's a cost issue on the PS3. If they design their hardware better next time around, it shouldn't be an issue. Also, I think BC is a lot more important to the PS4 than it was to the PS3. I doubt Sony will be selling 100,000 PS3s a month well past the launch of the PS4 the way they did PS2s after the PS3.
I think that 100,000 number is a big reason they should have been more Pro-active with BC and the PS3. That could have been some PS3's.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 08, 2011, 09:44:25 PM
It's a cost issue on the PS3. If they design their hardware better next time around, it shouldn't be an issue. Also, I think BC is a lot more important to the PS4 than it was to the PS3. I doubt Sony will be selling 100,000 PS3s a month well past the launch of the PS4 the way they did PS2s after the PS3.
I think that 100,000 number is a big reason they should have been more Pro-active with BC and the PS3. That could have been some PS3's.
Except Sony was losing a significant amount of money on every PS3 they sold, while the PS2 was almost entirely profit by that point. They needed to be selling all those PS2s or they'd have lost even more money.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 09, 2011, 12:22:39 AM
It's a cost issue on the PS3. If they design their hardware better next time around, it shouldn't be an issue. Also, I think BC is a lot more important to the PS4 than it was to the PS3. I doubt Sony will be selling 100,000 PS3s a month well past the launch of the PS4 the way they did PS2s after the PS3.
I think that 100,000 number is a big reason they should have been more Pro-active with BC and the PS3. That could have been some PS3's.
Except Sony was losing a significant amount of money on every PS3 they sold, while the PS2 was almost entirely profit by that point. They needed to be selling all those PS2s or they'd have lost even more money.
But now that that's done, what is stopping Sony from putting the emotion chip back in the PS3 in a newer revision? They are no longer losing money on each PS3 sold, so the reason they pulled it out is no longer applicable.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 09, 2011, 12:33:07 AM
They could, but they won't. They'd much rather sell you the games again, in sort-of HD (running at a higher resolution with somewhat better textures) for big mark-up. And before broodwars comes in and defends them and turns it against Nintendo, I'm not criticizing as much as calling them on it, and I'm totally aware that Nintendo will almost certainly do the same thing on the Wii U, although that'll at least play Wii games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on July 09, 2011, 03:16:47 AM
They only care about BC at launch. There aren't many games and it gives them a way to bring in the old fans early and say there are more games and will be more as the BC gets better. Once more games come out to draw people in they will drop support. They don't want you to play old games, they want you to play new games.
People who expect 100% BC will be disappointed, especially Live and PSN users. I doubt all those games will just move over to the next system because of both compatibility issues and dev/publisher issues.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 09, 2011, 05:58:05 AM
But doesn't even the slim model of the PS3 have reverse compatibility with PS1 games? They do that, but they cut out PS2 games support. I understand wanting to resell old games to people for high markup, but if that's the case shouldn't PS1 games support have been cut out as well?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on July 09, 2011, 08:56:28 AM
But doesn't even the slim model of the PS3 have reverse compatibility with PS1 games? They do that, but they cut out PS2 games support. I understand wanting to resell old games to people for high markup, but if that's the case shouldn't PS1 games support have been cut out as well?
I think it's probably because of how much easier PS1 emulation is. There were already tons of emulators for mutliple systems including the dreamcast and its just simpler in general. The PS1 emulator was probably something they finished quick and were done while the PS2 probably requires more work and extra work to get certain games to run correctly
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: motang on July 10, 2011, 11:20:24 PM
Honestly I feel the PS3 has like 3 if not 4 more years in it left. Now I am not just saying that because I just bought a PS3 like a month ago. I think late 2014 or 2015 would be a good time for it. PS3 is an awesome system, though I am late to the game (which I wasn't for the PS2, as I got that system in early 2002, before I got the GameCube). I am interested in how Sony will top the PS3.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 10, 2011, 11:26:08 PM
I'm sure Sony would love to let the PS3 go on until 2014 or 2015, but if Microsoft's going to launch in 2013 they really don't have that option. They can't let both MS and Nintendo get that kind of a head start.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 12, 2011, 12:50:16 AM
Just because the PS4 is on the horizon doesn't mean they will pull the plug on the PS3. At best the PS4 is probably two years off, and even then there will probably be support for the PS3 for another two years after that. Just like how the PS1 lived on after the PS2 for awhile and how the PS2 lived on for awhile (and kinda still does).
Which is much more than can be said about Nintendo hardware these last 3-4 generations. The Wii-U is a year or more off and yet the Wii is basically already dead as far as new software is concerned. The GC was also pretty much dead a year or two before the Wii, same with the N64. Even though the PS3 is in third place and has the lowest market share, it seems to have the best life expectancy.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on July 12, 2011, 02:19:19 AM
You are crazy Chozo. The PS3 is going to be dropped like a bad habbit when the next console comes out. All of Sony's support will obviously stop to make games for the new system and unless it starts getting ports of the next systems games don't expect third parties to put those games out there when they have something new and fresh to push their games on. The ps1 and ps2 continued to get the lower budget and experimental games that could be sold to their, at the time, record breaking userbases. PS3 budgets are too high and it doesn't have the userbase to sell the games when they release a follow up that will steal the already low sales away from the PS3.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 21, 2011, 12:33:13 AM
Develop-Online says: PS4 software in early stages, expects 2014 release http://www.develop-online.net/news/38916/Sony-studios-begin-PlayStation-4-projects (http://www.develop-online.net/news/38916/Sony-studios-begin-PlayStation-4-projects)
Quote
Preliminary work on PlayStation 4 games has begun at several internal Sony studios, Develop understands.
A trusted source connected to the matter has told Develop that various game projects are at very early stages, though didn’t reveal which of Sony’s sixteen first-party studios had been delegated the work.
Few in the games business expect a new PlayStation to launch before 2014 – the next few Christmases will likely see Sony marketing software for PS3, Move and its new Vita handheld.
MS is seen smiling with a grin large enough to show up on a Gmaps satellite photo
Title: PS4 & NeXtBoix @ E3 2012!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 06, 2012, 04:47:10 AM
Develop-Online says: Shock PS4 announcement 'set for E3 I'm shocked... are you shocked!? Sony rain on Nintendo's parade... never :rolleyes; http://www.develop-online.net/news/39431/Sony-to-make-bombshell-PS4-announcement-at-E3 (http://www.develop-online.net/news/39431/Sony-to-make-bombshell-PS4-announcement-at-E3)
Quote
New report claims that all three next gen systems will take stage at LA extravaganza Sony is planning to rock the industry by announcing PlayStation 4 plans in just a matter of months, a new report has revealed.
In a highly unexpected move, Sony executives will head to Los Angeles in June to discuss their next home console at E3, within days of Microsoft doing the same.
This week’s MCV magazine has splashed on its front page “Biggest E3 ever will reveal new consoles”, claiming that Microsoft too will unveil its next generation system at the industry event.
In October last year, Develop revealed that several Sony studios had begun prototyping early PlayStation 4 projects. One month later, PlayStation Europe boss Jim Ryan admitted it would be “undesirable” for the PlayStation 4 to launch later than its rivals. MCV now claims that Sony has sent the message to third-parties that it will not be left behind this time.
The PS3 launched more than a year after the Xbox 360, and it is believed Sony considers Microsoft had a significant advantage with its head-start.
Develop understands that Xbox Next is to launch in 2013, with PlayStation 4 likely released a year later. It appears Sony is intensifying efforts to narrow the gap between both console releases.
MCV’s report claims that neither Microsoft nor Sony will announce launch details of their next gen systems at E3. But their presence at the event is also designed to steal thunder from Nintendo, which is currently finalising release plans for Wii U.
By a show of hands, who is expecting Sony to show off some sort of Dual Shock Touch Tablet? and maybe show off how it will work in conjunction with Move for innovative asymmetrical gameplay? But they also show off dual tablets & 2 Vitas for some 4 player action too.
Sony will show you things you've never seen before. They will innovate.... maybe not by doing it first, but by doing it times 2 they will show off 4 players with 4 tablets and you will say WOW!
I know Sony is itching for payback after how Nintendo muddied up the Vita launch. I guess no better place than at E3.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 06, 2012, 06:32:30 AM
By a show of hands, who is expecting Sony to show off some sort of Dual Shock Touch Tablet?
It will be given the mind blowing name of "Dual Shock 4" and it will preserve the retarded layout of placing the D-pad where the left analog should logically go, and continue using those stupid shapes as the face buttons instead of numbers or letters like a controller should use.
I think there's also a reasonable chance Sony will take the opportunity to introduce some new proprietary media format for the console, instead of continuing to use the Blu-ray/HDD of the PS3. Going by their past history I'd say there is a good 50/50 chance of this happening.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 06, 2012, 12:28:38 PM
Anything new the PS4 will bring to the table will be laughable "WTF" stuff that you can't imagine anyone wanting. The rest will be very conventional and safe but incredibly "at the pulse" stuff that every gamer just expects a console at this point to have.
That's Sony in the videogame world. They have utterly stupid original ideas but really get the conventional stuff dead on. This is pretty much the exact opposite of Nintendo who comes up with incredible industry-changing ideas and then can't get the simple stuff right.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ejamer on January 06, 2012, 01:14:22 PM
Do I see them having them out on display? Not really.
Do I see them actually releasing them this year? Nah.
Even if they have a lot of ground to catch up with the Wii, I don't think either of them would rush out their next consoles. Besides, the Sega Saturn approach is marred with infamy and I don't understand why anyone would take that route.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 06, 2012, 01:43:30 PM
I should have added this with the original postings, but since you are linking to IGN because of it, I guess better late than never.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Caterkiller on January 06, 2012, 02:10:05 PM
Ok so if PS4 really launches 2 years after the Wii U I do expect a decent power gap, but 2 years is a heck of a long time! This is going to be the most interesting generation yet.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on January 06, 2012, 04:38:52 PM
I'm gonna have to believe the PS4 announcement when I see it. Sony's plan was to stretch this fight as long as they could and it'd probably behoove them to stick to their guns. PS3 can already do 1080p right? It does 3D gaming at least. WiiU is trying to compete on that level. Unless Sony has a REAL big innovation, they shouldn't come to the table.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 06, 2012, 05:05:47 PM
But this time they may want to flog Nintendo's ideas before they can get a foothold in the market. That is a mistake they made with the Wiimote. They were caught with their pants down and they Wii was on its own for a few years. I would imagine Sony don't want to risk that happening again and will try and rip off the Umote now and tell everyone about it so people can wait for the Sony version.
Come to think of it. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a PS3 addon. There isn't really any reason not to do it that way. Supposedly the WiiU isn't a huge jump over the PS3 and is presumably graphically comparable.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 06, 2012, 08:09:07 PM
BREAKING NEWS: PSM3 Claims PS4 to be more powerful than XBOX720 http://www.computerandvideogames.com/331361/ps4-early-specs-more-powerful-than-xbox-720-claims-source/
Quote
PlayStation 4's early technical specifications are looking "more powerful" than those of Microsoft's next-generation Xbox targets, according to PSM3's development sources.
in other news.... XBM claims that Xbox720 will outclass PS4 in every conceivable way. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 06, 2012, 08:19:18 PM
So a Sony magazine says the rumored specs of the PlayStation 4 will be more powerful than the rumored specs of the Xbox 3 (when we don't know the specs of either). I am not shocked they would make the claim, whether it's true or not.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Mop it up on January 06, 2012, 09:11:35 PM
I imagine the reveals will be similar to the Wii U, they'll hardly show anything and leave people feeling confused and angry, and they will probably have been better off not showing anything yet.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 07, 2012, 04:01:18 AM
So besides the BIG NEWS that Kaz "RIIIIIDGE RACER" Hirai is becoming the new President of Sony, http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/6/2687339/kazuo-hirai-sony-president Not sure how that would effect PS4.
rumor mill is saying that Sony may have a controller surprise to reveal....
previous comments about a touch screen dual shock not so far off after all?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 07, 2012, 04:03:13 AM
rumor mill is saying that Sony may have a controller surprise to reveal....
Sony ripping off yet another Nintendo controller innovation? How could that possibly come as a surprise?
maybe the surprise is that they thought up of something all by themselves
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 07, 2012, 12:31:16 PM
Well I wanted to believe that there was no way that Sony & MS was gonna be at E3 this year with an actual PS4 & Xbox720 ready to launch with completed software and pricing, but Pachter has put his opinion as a matter of fact on the table once again.....
There’s been a lot of Internet buzz of late regarding an MCV story that states that both Sony and Microsoft will show off PlayStation 4 and the next Xbox at E3 2012 this June in Los Angeles. But according to videogame analyst Michael Pachter of Wedbush Morgan Securities, that’s not going to happen.
“I think there’s zero chance of a tease from Sony for PlayStation 4 and only a 20 percent chance from Microsoft that they’ll tease the next Xbox,” said Pachter. “Neither console is launching in 2013, so there’s no reason to tease them in 2012.”
Even Nintendo, which is launching its HD Wii U later this year, waited until E3 2011 to show off the device. Nintendo will also have the new console at CES 2012 in Las Vegas January 10-13.
...Which can only lead me to believe the opposite of whatever he has said.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Lithium on January 07, 2012, 12:35:58 PM
Master, your laptop batteries are getting low. Master, there's a 20% chance that Microsoft will tease the next Xbox at E3.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 07, 2012, 02:58:20 PM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Pachter might be wrong many times, but that doesn't mean this couldn't be a time where he is right. The thing is, how can he possibly know? He doesn't. He is just taking a guess, and he is no more qualified to be making that guess than any of us. But that's not to say he might not be right, though. I guess we just have to wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on January 07, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
With the value of the dollar collapsing, the PS4 and Xbox 720 will not be as much of a graphical leap over the PS3 and 360 as those consoles were to their predecessors. The third party development studios would have to pay even more money to develop games for those consoles and how long do you think Sony and Microsoft's investors will tolerate the hemorraging of money in their video game divisions. One thing is for sure, Sony and Microsoft will not lose the amount of money they did this generation with their next generation. It is simply not economical.
The advent of the PS4 and Xbox 720 will one day be here, that is a certainty. However, if you want to know where the next genration battle is going to take place then look at portables and services, which include online retail and interactivity. The Vita and the 3DS will duke it out in a similar manner as the bigger home consoles, but for the first time in gaming history handhelds are going to overtake home consoles. How they do this is debatable, but look at how the gaming industry in Japan is moving towards handhelds and even the western gamer is turning to IOS devices for gaming.
I do see Sony revealing a tablet controller for the PS3 and maybe Microsoft doing the same with the 360. I do not expect a new console from them no early then late 2013 to 2014. The Wii U will have atleast a year to fight the PS3 and 360.
No analyst or crystal ball BS intended. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on January 08, 2012, 05:43:35 PM
With the value of the dollar collapsing, the PS4 and Xbox 720 will not be as much of a graphical leap over the PS3 and 360 as those consoles were to their predecessors.
Those two things have nothing to do with eachother. The Xbox720/PS4 leap isn't gonna be as big simply because it can't be as big. The graphical leaps are destined to get smaller and smaller, but I forgot the name of whatever theory that is.
Edit: thanks, BnM.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 08, 2012, 07:26:51 PM
Diminishing Returns*.
Graphics have a lot of room for improvement, but because it's already come so far, the greatest advancements in the next gen might not be all that noticeable unless you know what you are looking for.
Hair should look and move much better, actually animation in general will hopefully look better. Lighting will probably be something that we take notice of but not really know that we noticed until you do a side by side comparison with current gen.
*It's kinda like weight loss, where you make the largest improvements in the early times and progress slows and it becomes much harder to see any gains the closer you get to your goal. So if you weighed 450lbs, you can easily lost the first 100-200lbs with the right amount of effort, but now that you are down to 250lbs, you realize that you work much harder to get less noticeable results.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on January 08, 2012, 07:51:11 PM
The Vita is the closest thing we will have to a PS4 for atleast a few years. The real technological innovation that is going to take place in the future for the gaming is going to be with handhelds. With technology advancing there is plenty of room for developers to stretch their legs out with handheld games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 08, 2012, 08:27:23 PM
I think there are still quite a few advancements to be made. Texture work, and number of polygons to create even more natural worlds. Physics engines improving, better AI...and possibly more "thinking" AI will be possible with more power from the systems.
That said, my question is do we need better graphics now? Sure we all want to play a game that looks as good as Pixar films, but honestly that type of artistry is probably not possible in an interactive form.
I just want to play a fun game and I can do that now, so I really don't need more.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on January 08, 2012, 09:14:22 PM
We all know that Under the Hood there is vastly more you can do and make upgrades to but, what we all should acknowledge now is that the easy to quantify is hitting the steep portion of its diminishing returns.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 09, 2012, 03:11:31 AM
Physics engines improving, better AI...and possibly more "thinking" AI will be possible with more power from the systems.
This. Sure, there is still some room for improvement in graphics, but its at the point now where in my opinion graphics are good enough. You don't look at a PS360 game and think "man look at those shitty graphics!" and wish something better looking would come along. As BnM pointed out, most people wouldn't even notice the improvements anyway, unless there was a side by side comparison. If most people won't even notice anyway, then what is the point?
But as you said, the real room for improvement is in the non-visual stuff behind the scenes like the AI. We still have AI characters who are supposed to follow you but get lost or "stuck". This is something that needs to be improved. It would also be able to have more deep and meaningful interactions with characters, like being able to negotiate with store owners for better prices or whatever. Right now when games try to pull that off it just doesn't feel natural.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 09, 2012, 11:36:26 PM
Chozo Ghost: I agree. Which is why I am surprised that Microsoft and Sony are so quick to push for new HD systems.
Honestly, I don't think the masses are worried about new systems as much. Sure Nintendo needed to upgrade, and everyone can look at the Wii and say yes, the WiiU is a worthy upgrade to that console. But what about the Xbox 360 or PS3 screams needs to be upgraded.
I was hoping console generations would start to last longer again...with these next systems or the ones after, it should be possible to make viable console systems that can last 6-8 years on the market without an upgrade. Sure I could see DS like minor upgrades the systems, but that is all.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 09, 2012, 11:39:28 PM
Spak, the Xbox 360 is 6 years old now and will be this fall. The Wii will be about 6 years old when Wii U launches, Xbox 360 7 or 8 years by the time its successor comes out and PS3 6 or 7. This gen is already longer than the last 3.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on January 10, 2012, 01:06:41 AM
Spak, the Xbox 360 is 6 years old now and will be this fall. The Wii will be about 6 years old when Wii U launches, Xbox 360 7 or 8 years by the time its successor comes out and PS3 6 or 7. This gen is already longer than the last 3.
The global recession might have something to do with this.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 10, 2012, 04:37:12 AM
Wow...time flies...then I take my statement and push it to 8 years. I wanted to say that anyway, but felt a console lasting almost a decade is crazy...but seriously, why not?
If I knew I could play a console for 8 years without worry of upgrading I would spend that higher asking price.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 10, 2012, 05:48:53 AM
The Atari 2600 and Neo Geo hold the records for the longest lifespan consoles in history. I'm not sure which of those exactly holds the record, but its something like 14-15 years which would be more than twice what the 360 has been so far.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 10, 2012, 11:26:11 PM
Yeah, but both of those received minimal support for like the last 9 years. It's like how Dreamcast kept getting games for years and years, though for all intents and purposes it was dead after 2.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on January 10, 2012, 11:40:34 PM
There is a good chance that the PS4 could be the weakest of the next console generation. The reason I think this is because the only time Sony's consoles were ever successful was when they were the weakest on the market. The PS one and two were both weaker than their competiton and they still came out on top in the end. Sony may have realized that trying to win with sheer power is way too costly and might change their game plan acccordingly.
Microsoft will most likely have the more powerful system with Nintendo following a close second with the Wii U. I read some where that the Wii U will most likely be 50% more powerful than the PS3, so I could see the Xbox 720 being 60% more powerful than the PS3 with tit and the Wii U making a gradual increase in power to 70% with slim lined models and technological growth.
The biggest question about the PS4 is its storage medium. Will Sony make the PS4 with some kind of advanced blu-ray player? Will they made make a totaly new optical format for the system? It is doubtful that Sony would create a blu ray successor with the all the digital media distribution going on today. So, my gut tells me that the PS4 will be cartridge based like the Vita to curb piracy. They might even use the same technology to drive down costs. Now, what PS3 BC? Well, Sony did not prioritize BC with the PS2 when the PS3 came out, so anything can happen.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 11, 2012, 06:21:16 AM
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on January 11, 2012, 11:26:20 AM
In Breaking News PS3 10 year is set to continue (http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/01/10/sony-doesnt-plan-to-unveil-a-new-playstation-at-key-trade-show/?mod=WSJBlog).
Quote
Hirai said. “I’ve always said a 10-year life cycle for PS3, and there is no reason to go away from that.”
Is it really their actual plan? A publicity stunt? Marketing ploy to maintain current PS3 sales? Surprise launch? 2016 really? You decide!
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 11, 2012, 11:30:31 AM
Sure it will have a 10-year life cycle, but some of that is going to be after the PS4 launches. Technically the PS2 is still alive because it is being manufactured, and there might even be games coming out for it. I'm sure Sony will continue to manufacture the PS3 for as long as people are willing to buy it, but that doesn't mean the PS4 isn't going to come out before that.
There is still a lot of room for price drops with the PS3. I expect there will be a further revision or two where they strip features out and try to makes things cheaper and use less components. One thing they might do for example is remove the built in HDD and instead include some built in flash memory which would be cheaper, while still allowing users to use external usb storage options as well. That's the approach Nintendo is taking with the Wii U, and when you look at the skyrocketing HDD prices due to the floods in Thailand it makes even more sense to want to ditch the HDD from the system in order to slash costs.
What else could Sony do to make the PS3 cheaper? Well, they could also introduce a wired dualshock 3 controller which would be cheaper because it would have the battery and blutooth capability stripped out of it. I could see that happening also.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Roman on January 11, 2012, 01:01:13 PM
This is what I was expecting, because there really isn't all that much that can be done to improve on the PS3's graphics even if that was Sony's objective. The graphical wall has been hit until holodeck technology shows up.
That is very wrong. Graphics can do much more. The problem is that it will cost far too much in both time and money to achieve them. PS360 leapfrogged in tech over the previous gen and cost skyrocketed because of it. We should just now be getting to that level of graphics in the console space if we want to keep things affordable, so it makes sense to slow things down a bit.
2 PS3's duct taped together will be a very capable machine. Especially if they stick a well thought out GPU in there this time.
Assuming this is true though, that really does leave the ball in MS's court. Do they continue with the tech arms race towards real-time movie grade CG in hopes that Sony will continue to spend and compete? Or do they continue on their current path of expansion towards the casual market?
MS is on deck to show it's hand at E3 2012, Nintendo is already all in, but I'm not sure if Sony will be at that table too.
The new gadget will be more advance than the previous and the people will rush towards it and this will be the much better against all consoles and also its biggest competitor like 360.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on January 11, 2012, 05:58:23 PM
Any chance that the PS4 could be cartridge based like the Vita?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on January 11, 2012, 06:05:40 PM
Any chance that the PS4 could be cartridge based like the Vita?
Not a chance, especially if Sony is still pushing Blu-Ray by the time the PS4 releases. And considering most PS3 games don't use probably even half the space a Blu-Ray disc allows, I don't see Sony using a different format for their next console.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on January 11, 2012, 06:09:30 PM
Any chance that the PS4 could be cartridge based like the Vita?
Not a chance, especially if Sony is still pushing Blu-Ray by the time the PS4 releases. And considering most PS3 games don't use probably even half the space a Blu-Ray disc allows, I don't see Sony using a different format for their next console.
Isn't Blu-Ray losing ground against Netflix and other digital distributors? I just think that Sony is going to implement very strong anti-pracy measures on their next home console and I see cartridges as one towards those measures. How is the Vita doing in this respect?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on January 11, 2012, 06:18:15 PM
Vita already got hacked to play Genesis games. It's only a matter of time before someone hacks it to play actual Vita games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 11, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
Isn't Blu-Ray losing ground against Netflix and other digital distributors?
No it's not, in fact Blu-ray Disc has for the last few months been increasing in sales faster than digital. Blu-ray was off to a slow start, but it's finally doing pretty well. It helps that most digitial versions don't look anywhere near as good as the Blu-ray versions (and often lack any bonus features). As for Netflix, after their debacle last year they lost something like 1 million subscribers (even more than they expected).
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on January 12, 2012, 04:44:34 PM
Honestly in my house getting the DVD isn't really an option anymore. For what most of the time is maybe $10 I can get the Blu-Ray with better sound and picture and the DVD.
Most of the time the Blu-Ray is on sale and I can get it for the same as the DVD or very close.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kairon on January 14, 2012, 04:44:22 AM
Any chance that the PS4 could be cartridge based like the Vita?
Sony should partner with Sega to create a cartridge based addon for the PS3. This would help tide PS3 gamers over until the PS4 is released.
Hmmm... the PS32X?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ThePerm on January 14, 2012, 03:11:50 PM
I imagine in the next 3 years there will be a cartridge alternative to blu ray that also fits in line with digital distribution, or at least space consolidation. I fucking hate optical media, and I hope it goes away the sooner the better. I really need to buy more Disc Albums, **** takes up way too much space, and even if im careful, its too easy to scratch. I wonder how much space you could fit on something that uses sd card technology thats about he size of a 3.5 floppy disk and how many units would have to be manufactured to get each individual disk down to two dollars?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 14, 2012, 03:19:14 PM
I wonder how much space you could fit on something that uses sd card technology thats about he size of a 3.5 floppy disk
We still haven't seen the limit of how much space could fit on an SD Micro, so I'm sure an SD the size of a floppy disc would probably have terabytes of storage potential. I think it would be overkill for gaming purposes, and probably expensive.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Shaymin on January 14, 2012, 07:09:17 PM
Better here than the rumor thread: Sony Computer Entertainment's CTO confirms in interview the earliest the PS4 will release is November 17, 2013.
Quote
Consumer technology giant Sony aims to give its next-generation gaming console an up to 10 year shelf-life, according to the CTO of its Computer Entertainment division, Maasaki Tsuruta, speaking exclusively to E&T. This is significantly longer than the market has seen historically, although the PlayStation 3 will be at least seven-years-old by the time its successor appears.
(emphasis added)
Source: Engineering and Technology Magazine (http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/12/maasaki-tsu-interview.cfm) interview.
No word on whether their plans may be accelerated by the existence of Xbox 420, or the fact that the year of the PS3 is still slated for 2015 (http://yearoftheps3.info).
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 02, 2012, 01:22:24 AM
Could PS4 be at E3 2012?
is it possible Sony could have PS4 nearing completion and ready for release sometime within the next 12-18 months and not a single leak so far? what would you think if it's specs look a little like this
Featured more emphasized on Move at launch with games that have a Move/Kinect combo style of play, was aiming for an E3 2012 unveiling and a late 2012 launch in Japan (before E3 2013 at the latest) @ a price point of under $400.
What if this post isn't entirely speculation and Sony is actually prepared to surprise us all and hit the market, at the very latest, the same time as Xbox720? Would you believe it? Do you even think it's possible? I guess we'll have to wait till E3 to find out for sure....
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ThePerm on February 02, 2012, 06:32:36 PM
Better here than the rumor thread: Sony Computer Entertainment's CTO confirms in interview the earliest the PS4 will release is November 17, 2013.
Quote
Consumer technology giant Sony aims to give its next-generation gaming console an up to 10 year shelf-life, according to the CTO of its Computer Entertainment division, Maasaki Tsuruta, speaking exclusively to E&T. This is significantly longer than the market has seen historically, although the PlayStation 3 will be at least seven-years-old by the time its successor appears.
(emphasis added)
Source: Engineering and Technology Magazine (http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/12/maasaki-tsu-interview.cfm) interview.
No word on whether their plans may be accelerated by the existence of Xbox 420, or the fact that the year of the PS3 is still slated for 2015 (http://yearoftheps3.info).
well it isn't so much that I care about how big it is, but I miss the form factor of 3.5 inch floppy disks. I could see sd and this non existing format working side by side. Sds are kinda small which makes them ideal for travel, but makes them harder to manipulate/organize and also easier to lose.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 02, 2012, 10:22:55 PM
My beef with 3.5 inch floppies (aside from the fact they suck) is that they aren't really floppy at all. If you want a floppy disk that is actually floppy you need to go back to the big 5" floppies of the old days. They really lived up to the name, and you could even put them through a typewriter to type a label on them. That's the sort of media format that would be cool to have in this day and age. Imagine something exactly like that, but with the same capacity as SD cards.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2012, 12:28:25 AM
We went to hard type of Medias for a reason. Though I liked the old slot load cartridge CD's. The ones you eventually had to get a special case for that made them like Floppies. Your CD was actually protected in a permanent case that you didn't take off. Neat way to do it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ymeegod on February 03, 2012, 05:02:12 AM
"Vita already got hacked to play Genesis games. It's only a matter of time before someone hacks it to play actual Vita games."
Yes and no, they found that they can still use an exploit of an psn game to gain access to some old BC psp files but they haven't cracked the vita completely, similar to the 3ds and ole ds hacks. Both systems are still locked up pretty damn tight, 3dscrown or whatever they called themselves seem to be blowing smoke about hacking the 3ds because they been silent for the last 5 months or so.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 03, 2012, 05:23:02 AM
No matter how secure you make your system it will be cracked eventually. In fact, the more secure it is the more it only encourages hackers because the more difficult it is the more prestige they have to gain by doing it. With hackers its all about prestige, because they don't really get paid to do what they do.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2012, 10:16:23 AM
No matter how secure you make your system it will be cracked eventually. In fact, the more secure it is the more it only encourages hackers because the more difficult it is the more prestige they have to gain by doing it. With hackers its all about prestige, because they don't really get paid to do what they do.
The key though is to make the hack so difficult and time consuming that its actually a better investment just to buy what you want.
When I was in college someone had hacked Java's Virtual Machine. How they did it was by sticking a computer in an oven and getting a random bit flip in the memory from the heat. I kid you not. They hacked it. Is it practical or useful. No not really.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 03, 2012, 10:53:21 AM
The key though is to make the hack so difficult and time consuming that its actually a better investment just to buy what you want.
When I was in college someone had hacked Java's Virtual Machine. How they did it was by sticking a computer in an oven and getting a random bit flip in the memory from the heat. I kid you not. They hacked it. Is it practical or useful. No not really.
That's my point. The hackers don't care about saving money or making money. They do it for the challenge and to make a name for themselves. That's why making it difficult and time consuming will not only not stop them, but instead encourage them.
The pirates are another story. They come along after the hackers have done the hard work and pick up the pieces. Hackers just do it for prestige, but the pirates latch onto their work because they want free ****.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on February 03, 2012, 11:22:54 AM
The key though is to make the hack so difficult and time consuming that its actually a better investment just to buy what you want.
When I was in college someone had hacked Java's Virtual Machine. How they did it was by sticking a computer in an oven and getting a random bit flip in the memory from the heat. I kid you not. They hacked it. Is it practical or useful. No not really.
That's my point. The hackers don't care about saving money or making money. They do it for the challenge and to make a name for themselves. That's why making it difficult and time consuming will not only not stop them, but instead encourage them.
The pirates are another story. They come along after the hackers have done the hard work and pick up the pieces. Hackers just do it for prestige, but the pirates latch onto their work because they want free ****.
The point is to make such a pain so when the pirates comes behind its just not worth it.
Hackers going to Hack. No way around that.
Title: PS4 uMote Patent!?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2012, 01:48:01 PM
Sony patent application shows control method that resembles Wii U What Nintendoes Sony Copies? http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/02/sony-patent-application-shows-control-method-that-resembles-wii-u/? (http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/02/sony-patent-application-shows-control-method-that-resembles-wii-u/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Venturebeat+%28VentureBeat%29) (http://www.abload.de/img/sony-patent-app-1-e13j6c6k.png)
(http://www.abload.de/img/sony-patent-app-431c6w.png) It looks like a Wii in a PS3 stand....
Quote
Sony filed for an interesting patent in 2010 that shows it has technology that resembles Nintendo’s upcoming Wii U game console. Titled Position-Dependent Gaming 3-D controller, and Handheld as a Remote, the patent shows that the game company is at the very least interested in a controller or mobile device with a built-in display to be used as an input device for a console game.
The concept is similar to the Wii U, which was unveiled at E3 last year. The device shows objects onscreen and interacts with the objects on the television while acting as a controller. It suggest that the next-generation game consoles will embrace touchscreen tablets in a big way.
Below is a description of how the device is supposed to function:
Quote from: Patent
Methods and systems for using a position of a mobile device with an integrated display as an input to a video game or other presentation are presented. Embodiments include rendering an avatar on a mobile device such that it appears to overlay a competing user in the real world. Using the mobile device’s position, view direction, and the other user’s mobile device position, an avatar (or vehicle, etc.) is depicted at an apparently inertially stabilized location of the other user’s mobile device or body. Some embodiments may estimate the other user’s head and body positions and angles and reflect them in the avatar’s gestures.
The device is position-dependent, and the application only describes it as a “mobile device,” so it’s difficult to know whether it’s a handheld such as the PlayStation Vita or a separate game controller designed for a future console. Still, it’s only a patent application, and Sony may only be covering their bases for future control possibilities.
It has been said in the past that the PlayStation Vita and PlayStation 3 combination can do what Nintendo’s Wii U can do. Perhaps Sony was way ahead of us on that one.
Well since Nintendo wouldn't have revealed the uMote without proper patents in place, I can only assume that this patent was reactionary even though it was filed back in 2010.
And since it is "rumored" that Sony plans on unveiling something new this E3, I guess we can only wait to find out.
edit: on a second reading it sounds more like a software patent than a Hardware patent, but I'm sure you guys remember the patent from last year about PSVita being used like a uMote http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP2359915A1.pdf
I'm sure it's in the PSVita thread somewhere, but I just linked it again.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 04, 2012, 02:24:09 PM
If they filed this patent in 2010 how come no one posted anything about this until now?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 04, 2012, 02:45:15 PM
Probably because it was just published recently?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 04, 2012, 11:49:17 PM
What is keeping that controller thing levitating in the air in the third picture? And why is it so damn huge? It looks like its larger than the man's torso. Is Sony trying to go for the Guiness world record for the largest levitating controller? Also, you can see the guys bones, so I assume there are some x-rays involved.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on February 05, 2012, 07:18:07 AM
You have to have a stand to do the Man thing. Which is described in there as mimic Kinect for all intents and purposes.
Also the Vita stuff is nothing but GBA to GCN connectivity. uMote is the same excepts its a dedicated device. PSP could do that stuff as well.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 05, 2012, 08:21:50 AM
I also want to say that if that dude in the figure was wearing glasses he would look just like Hank from King of the Hill.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2012, 07:06:25 AM
Mark Rein: Unreal Engine 4 for "systems we can’t name yet." notice that that is plural. Pay attention to those PS4 & Xbox720 rumors. we just might see 1 or both at E3 this year.
Quote
The DICE summit is currently taking place as awards are being handed out and moments ago Mark Rein took the stage. While talking about Unreal Engine 4 he said that the graphics engine was running on “systems I can’t talk about by name.” This would obviously point to the next generation of consoles being pretty far into development. Let the rumors continue to come out of the woodworks!
UPDATE: The quote was technically “Including systems we can’t name yet.”
You guys won't believe me, but there are whispers that PS4 could be coming much sooner than you think. Sony isn't too good at keeping a secret, so don't be surprised if PS4 isn't actually slated for a 2014 release and gets announced officially sometime this year.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on February 10, 2012, 08:12:07 AM
Would Sony really officially announce a new console 2 years before launch? I feel like they're more likely to deny it until they're ready to have Kaz Hirai give a really boring presentation.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on February 10, 2012, 09:06:05 AM
Would Sony really officially announce a new console 2 years before launch? I feel like they're more likely to deny it until they're ready to have Kaz Hirai give a really boring presentation.
As CEO now his Boring Presentation Development time has been shortened with his new resources.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 01, 2012, 12:11:53 AM
Sony Ditching Hardware BC once again by Ditching Cell? http://kotaku.com/5889410/playstation-4-ditching-the-cell-processor-sources-say-which-leads-to-some-wild-theories
It's rumored that they are going with an AMD Fusion style chip.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 01, 2012, 12:20:15 AM
If the PS4 doesn't have PS3 backwards compatibility then there is no reason for Ian to buy that over the WiiU.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 01, 2012, 02:02:43 AM
So then Sony will have to up the power of the PS4 to emulate PS3 games? Yeah...that won't force Sony to put too much power in the system and under charge for it losing hundreds of dollars per unit and still selling it higher than anyone wants to pay for a console.
I am hoping Microsoft releases an amazing 3rd generation Xbox that keeps Sony from succeeding well this next generation...or at least come up with a different game plan than they always do.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 01, 2012, 02:55:28 AM
So then Sony will have to up the power of the PS4 to emulate PS3 games?
In order for software emulation to work, doesn't the hardware have to be like 10 times more powerful than whatever it is its trying to emulate? I guess its possible the PS4 could be 10 times more powerful than the PS3, but I kinda doubt that will happen, unless Sony is okay with launching another $600 console which isn't going to sell very well.
So if hardware BC is out and software BC is out my guess is there won't be any PS3 backwards compatibility. What they will probably do instead is port many of the PS3 games over to their download store thing and try to get people to rebuy them. Why let people play their old games for free when you can get them to rebuy them and make more money?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2012, 12:25:43 PM
If the PS4 doesn't have PS3 backwards compatibility then there is no reason for Ian to buy that over the WiiU.
Why would that matter since I already own a PS3? I can just keep the old system, which I would do anyway.
I like backwards compatibility, mostly because optical disc systems are a little more fragile due to moving parts and lenses and such. I expect old cartridge systems to just work (except the stupid NES of course) because there isn't much wear and tear but disc systems are a crapshoot. Thus being able to play the old games on new hardware is a nice feature.
But the Xbox 360 doesn't have true backwards compatibility, Sony quickly took it out of the PS3 and Nintendo bascially acted like the Wii was never backwards compatible in the first place. It didn't matter. It just isn't a deal breaker so if these companies can save costs by not having it, they're going to do it. And Chozo has the obvious point of them wanting you to rebuy old games. I expect someday for a company to try to remotely brick their older system through an update and use the "you just bought a licence to use it" excuse.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 01, 2012, 12:47:39 PM
How did Nintendo act like the Wii wasn't backwards compatible when they included GameCube controller ports and memory card slots on the Wii?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2012, 04:54:08 PM
Nintendo just never promoted it in any real way and it wasn't like Gamecube controllers, games and memory cards were available in stores. It was like you had to be hip to it to know the function was there. I imagine most blue ocean Wii owners don't know what a Gamecube is and have never used the backwards compatibility. It just wasn't promoted as any sort of selling point.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 01, 2012, 08:48:13 PM
I don't think GC BC was much of a selling point for the Wii anyway. The GC was a flop and only sold about 1/5th of what the Wii has to date, so the overwhelming majority of people who own the Wii never owned a GC and may never even have heard of it. It might seem weird, but I know there are people out there who have owned a Wii for years and they don't even know the GC ports are there because they are so carefully hidden away. If you showed them those ports they would probably just end up confused and then you'd have to explain it to them.
That would be my guess why Nintendo never made that one of the Wii's selling points. It would have just confused the casual non-gamer crowd Nintendo was targeting, and at the same time odds were that anyone who cared about GC compatibility probably knew it was there because they were the more savvy game oriented consumers who took the time to research stuff like that.
Another reason may be because of the criticism of how the Wii is just a beefed up GC. There is some truth in that, and no matter how you slice it its not something Nintendo would be proud of or want to have harped on. So keeping the GC ports hidden away and then later removed altogether helped them to downplay that.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 01, 2012, 09:10:45 PM
It was like you had to be hip to it to know the function was there.
Or not blind. The flap falls down when the console is mildly jostled.
Quote
I imagine most blue ocean Wii owners don't know what a Gamecube is and have never used the backwards compatibility. It just wasn't promoted as any sort of selling point.
I imagine that most blue ocean Wii owners never used backwards compatibility because... they're blue ocean Wii owners. If they weren't, they would be gamers who have heard of Gamecube and potentially already owned one. I don't really understand your point. The reason these people bought a Wii was because it wasn't a Gamecube or a PS2 or an Xbox. That's what was appealing to them. The Wii reached out to them more than any other console before it. Backwards compatibility was never for them because they don't want a Gamecube because they didn't want a Gamecube when it was new. Backwards compatibility was for people like you or me who are gamers, who may or may not have owned a Gamecube. I can waltz into a Gamestop today and pick up a Gamecube controller and memory card. Up until a few years ago, I could even find them new.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on March 01, 2012, 09:15:26 PM
The main reason that I have been hesitant about buying a PS3 besides the price is the fact that I can not play my PS2 games on the PS3. Granted that I could always keep my old system, but I believe in uniformity, so once a new system is released I always add my previous console's games to the succeeding system's library to save my self the hassle of clutter and being dependant on too many systems at once.
In fact, I bought a Gamecube right before I bought my Wii because I want to have to access to all the Gamecube titles that I missed. When I realized the Wii could play Gamecube games I sold the Gamecube and used BC to play the games instead. The only thing that pissed me off about the Wii was that it was not compatible with the Game Boy Player. Overall, I prefer backwards compatibility and that is the way it is going to stay for me for the forseeable future.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 01, 2012, 09:29:06 PM
so once a new system is released I always add my previous console's games to the succeeding system's library to save my self the hassle of clutter and being dependant on too many systems at once.
The Wii was Nintendo's first console to have BC, so why did it suddenly become so important to you then?
Chozo, how do you consider GameCube to be a flop? It was profitable, and it sold quite well (not Wii numbers, but still OK). Do you consider Xbox to be a flop too? It and GameCube basically sold the same amount.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Kytim89 on March 01, 2012, 09:49:01 PM
so once a new system is released I always add my previous console's games to the succeeding system's library to save my self the hassle of clutter and being dependant on too many systems at once.
The Wii was Nintendo's first console to have BC, so why did it suddenly become so important to you then?
Chozo, how do you consider GameCube to be a flop? It was profitable, and it sold quite well (not Wii numbers, but still OK). Do you consider Xbox to be a flop too? It and GameCube basically sold the same amount.
The reason Bc is important to me is that I once owned a PS1 with a large assortment of games and then I bought a PS2, so all my PS1 games carried over and I sold my older console. The Wii was the first Nnitendo console that I officially owned for myself. I played a NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube before, but never had one for my personal use. The Wii presented a perfect opprotunity. Not only did it play Gamecube games, but it also played certian retro games via the Virtual Console.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 01, 2012, 10:51:26 PM
GameCube was a flop, there's no arguing that. It sold well at first, then fizzled and died. The XBox sold ~24 million vs the GameCube's ~22 million (about 33% less tan the N64), but basically 14 people in Japan bought the Xbox, so all of those sales came from NA, Europe and Australia, essentially, and it was Microsoft's first console. It sold quite well as a "thing," sure, but compared to the PS2 (which outsold it by nearly 7:1), and the newcomer, it was a complete flop. It did sell a **** ton of games though (208 million).
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 01, 2012, 11:00:06 PM
Well, the Wii was the first console of Nintendo's that could have backward's compatibility. BC became important, because it was a major selling point for the PS2. And since then it adds value and instant library of games to your console...and believe it not, most people don't like having 3-4 devices hooked up to their TV. Specially, if they own more than one modern console.
Anyway, I find it important specially since the Wii became mega-backwards compatible with the Virtual Console...it became a system that could play select games from all systems...and that was/is pure win.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 02, 2012, 12:39:45 AM
All I mean is that it wasn't a mainstream system or a household name that everyone knew about. That's why I said there wasn't much point in Nintendo using that as a selling point with the Wii, because if you try to tell people its backwards compatible with the GC then you have to take some extra time and explain to them exactly what the Gamecube is, and since the "blue ocean" crowd never heard of the GC they are going to automatically perceive it as a flop because if it had been successful they would have heard of it and recognized the name. That's not something Nintendo would want people to associate with the Wii, so it was best for them not to underscore that.
Instead, Nintendo emphasized the motion controls and casual aspect of the console and this strategy was extremely successful for them.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2012, 12:22:49 PM
I've noticed most people play games in like a three year window. For them videogames are largely disposable entertainment and if it is more than a few years old they're probably not playing it. The average person would consider a game from ten years ago to be ridiculously old. So BC is really only useful for more dedicated gamers anyway. The person who uses his PS3 to play PS1 games is also the sort of person that if the PS2 didn't have backwards compatibility, would have kept his original Playstation around anyway. If you didn't trade in the old games years ago, you probably would keep the old system around as well. Everyone else trades everything in to get funds for the new stuff.
If you don't offer it, that kind of sucks but the people who will actually notice, even while grumbling, will pick up your new system anyway if you release enough games on it that they want. I would like it (hell I would like Nintendo to re-release the NES) but it wouldn't convince me not to buy the system and all these companies know it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Caliban on March 28, 2012, 01:36:21 PM
Orbis. From what I've read on Kotaku, and if it turns out to be true I'm even more inclined to not get a PS4... sorry, Orbis because there won't be any PS3 BC. **** that noise.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 28, 2012, 05:59:26 PM
I thought it was a joke pic on IGN. Apparently they would also make it so there are restrictions on used-games and the Blu-ray Discs would be tied to individual PSN accounts.
If those 3 things are true, Sony would be trying to lose next gen too.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 28, 2012, 06:07:36 PM
So if Sony and MS screw up the used game market by restricting it, then the Wii U may be the best selling out of the bunch by default. I really hope these rumors are false though, whether it be PS4 or the new Xbox, other they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 28, 2012, 06:51:47 PM
I've noticed most people play games in like a three year window. For them videogames are largely disposable entertainment and if it is more than a few years old they're probably not playing it. The average person would consider a game from ten years ago to be ridiculously old. So BC is really only useful for more dedicated gamers anyway. The person who uses his PS3 to play PS1 games is also the sort of person that if the PS2 didn't have backwards compatibility, would have kept his original Playstation around anyway. If you didn't trade in the old games years ago, you probably would keep the old system around as well. Everyone else trades everything in to get funds for the new stuff.
If you don't offer it, that kind of sucks but the people who will actually notice, even while grumbling, will pick up your new system anyway if you release enough games on it that they want. I would like it (hell I would like Nintendo to re-release the NES) but it wouldn't convince me not to buy the system and all these companies know it.
This is true. Though, I would say 3 years is probably too long. I would say it is closer to 2 years for a great game your friends all love to play...and 1 year for single player games and such. Now Legacy games do not count, because there is a market right now for playing classic legacy games...and I find people play those games for different reasons. Even modern games that try to create that Retro feel can't.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 28, 2012, 07:00:58 PM
I hope Sony and Microsoft falter to some degree because that increases my chances of being a cheap-o for the majority of the next console generation. I will always buy a Nintendo console because they're my favorite developer so if Sony and Microsoft have to take a fall so Nintendo can be ensured better support, of course I'd want that. I want them around because competition is good but I just want Nintendo to be more successful so I can save money. /consumerism
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on March 28, 2012, 07:02:10 PM
I dunno. I think I could still get some people for Wii Sports Bowling, but then again, I'm not sure if any of them would do it themselves. The games themselves kind of move in fads. Just Dance and MJ:The Experience pretty much hold the crown right now. Though, games outside the window are still brought up after the current ones are played.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 28, 2012, 07:31:14 PM
If Sony and MS lock out used games then it will take some massive bullshit for me to not buy a Wii U. I'm not someone who buys beat up used copies from GameStop to save five bucks. That's not the point. I'm the guy who buys a used copy of a game several years after release because it ceases to be availabe new in stores anymore! Videogames have a shelf life. If Sony had this than that would mean if you bought a PS4 a few years after launch there would be earlier releases you could not play. It means that ten years from now the PS4 had virtually no retro gaming presence whatsoever because if you missed out then, you're screwed. Imagine if you didn't own a Gamecube when it was current and now EVERY Gamecube game was now unavailable to you. Sorry, no Pikmin 2 or Paper Mario 2 or Wind Waker. You didn't get a new copy at the time and they have not re-released it on a newer format so tough luck.
A videogame system never truly dies for me as I will buy used games for it years and years after they've gone out of print. I would never buy a system where I knew that I couldn't do that. And if they had that kind of restriction I could see the whole thing being an outright brick in the future if it required some DRM check from a server that ceases to exist.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 28, 2012, 07:55:27 PM
Um, sir, I think the point is that the games would always be available to you via download. You'd never miss out on any game. You just wouldn't have the benefit of paying used game prices for them. Yeah, I know. F that. I like owning physical copies of games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 28, 2012, 08:41:36 PM
Um, sir, I think the point is that the games would always be available to you via download. You'd never miss out on any game. You just wouldn't have the benefit of paying used game prices for them. Yeah, I know. F that. I like owning physical copies of games.
Not necessarily. It depends on how long the servers are up that support the downloads of the games. Will they be up in 15 years? What if Sony or MS leave the gaming industry? With a physical copy you know you will always have the game as long as you take care of it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on March 28, 2012, 08:47:10 PM
In this day and age is anything really lost? I mean, I can still play all the NES and SNES games I've lost with a simple program and some roms. The only thing I miss is the feeling of the controller or the nostalgia of loading the game. Apart from that, I can still play Sunset Riders and Killer Instinct.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 28, 2012, 08:52:54 PM
Besides the illegality of ROMs, it also becomes impractical as time goes along because of how big games are becoming (imagine trying to pirate MGS4, which used the full 50GB of a Blu-ray Disc).
Digital distribution only is a bad idea, I hope it never becomes the standard. Another downside to locking out used games is that it also makes it impossible to let your friends borrow your game or trade games with someone.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 28, 2012, 08:57:32 PM
@GoldenPhoenix
Fine. Generally speaking then. Jeez, did that really need a clarifying statement?
Within the context of Ian's example (namely "a few years after launch"), yes, those games would likely be available for the duration of the console cycle and probably even a few years after. And chances are, the owners of the various IPs would make those titles available in the future somehow, most likely on a newer console. If a game is out of print, you would only really miss the chance at owning a physical copy with a console that locks out used games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on March 28, 2012, 09:22:41 PM
Besides the illegality of ROMs, it also becomes impractical as time goes along because of how big games are becoming (imagine trying to pirate MGS4, which used the full 50GB of a Blu-ray Disc).
Roms aren't illegal if you own the game, as I once did. Also the size argument is really moot because if they are trying to sell an online version, then you must be able to download it in a respectable amount of time and store it on a respectable sized disk.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 28, 2012, 09:28:31 PM
That whole ROMs legal if you own it argument is a grey area at best. And even if you believe that, it would only apply if you currently own it (not if you used to own it). And by size I was referring to downloading it illegally (not from official servers), less people are gonna be willing to do it for something that is 18GB in size compared to like 40MB.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 28, 2012, 09:45:50 PM
So I just ran across the rumor you guys are talking about since no one bothered to link to it or summarize it....
To sum things up http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details (http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details)
PS4 is codenamed Orbis. http://orbis.scedev.net/ (http://orbis.scedev.net/) <-- an actual Sony Site AMDx64 CPU AMD Southern Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Islands_(GPU_family) GPU No BC with PS3 (different GPU and awkward Cell structure make it hard for software emulation) 2k Resolution 4096x2160 (enough resolution for 1080p 3D games) Anti-Used game Technology (Always online connection required/Games tied to SEN acct.) -used game purchasers will have to pay to access the whole game or otherwise they will just own a demo disc. Holiday 2013 Release date
and may I remind you that I have it written on a napkin that PS3 is coming in 2013... Xbox720 aka Durango may not launch till 2014. (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.msg721397#msg721397)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on March 28, 2012, 09:49:40 PM
@TJ
Yeah right /sarcasm
There are packs of PS3 games in the 500 gb range being downloaded er'day. That's why I think people who are downloading it from official servers will be less patient because its something they paid for. So while 14 gb ain't **** to me or my community, it may mean a lot to the average consumer who saw a game, liked the game, bought the game, but now can't play the game until 6 hours have passed.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on March 28, 2012, 09:51:04 PM
Rumors are saying that the PS4 will refuse Used games and will not have Backwards Compatibility with PS3 games. Sorry, Sony, but as much as I love my PS3 if these rumors are true I am NOT buying the PS4. The line must be drawn He-ar! This far! No further! ;) Considering that there are similar rumors going on with the Xbox Next, I may have to reluctantly make the Wii U my main platform next generation. I hope I don't have to, because there are games that appear on Sony platforms that I'd really miss not having a PS4 (Resistance, Killzone, Sly, Ratchet, to some extent Uncharted, Infamous, whatever ThatGameCompany and Quantic Dream are making, etc.), as well as certain genres that tend to appear on Sony platforms more than the others like JRPGs.
And before anyone asks "well, why don't you just keep your PS3?", I'm already on my second PS3 after my first one figuratively burst into flames and died. I have no faith whatsoever that this machine will still be functioning in the same capacity 5-10 years down the line. I like having the safety net of a new machine w/ BC and hopefully better engineering since the PS3 is an engineering disaster with things like heat management.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on March 28, 2012, 11:44:56 PM
Better engineering? From Sony?
ha
haahahaahahhahahaa
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on March 29, 2012, 12:13:35 AM
In regards to heat management, I would hope so. It's hard to imagine a design worse than a heat management system where the components are designed to separate from the main board and then reform, which IIRC is the general reason why the YLOD eventually happens (as it did with my original PS3). Then there are all the issues the Cell gave developers that caused so many messy PS3 ports for the first several years of the system's life (hell, it still seems to be giving them trouble in some cases like PS3 Skyrim).
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 29, 2012, 01:22:33 AM
Brood, your first PS3 that died was the "Phat" model, right? From what I understand the slim model is a lot more reliable. If your second model is a slim then it could very well still be functional 5-10 years from now.
And the problem with Skyrim from my understanding is the lack of RAM. The 360 has 512MB whereas the PS3 only has 256MB. People commonly believe the PS3 is the most powerful system, and based on the processor that's probably true, but in terms of RAM it is inferior to the 360.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 29, 2012, 01:24:57 AM
Would Microsoft and Sony really be that stupid to make it impossible to play used games on their next systems? I mean, they do realize the majority of gamers buy some used games and sell some of their older gamers? I mean, come on, they might as well make their next systems 599.99 U.S dollars as well if they go though with this.
Lets see here, last time their was an actual study on this issue
Good god, I know Microsoft and especially Sony made some bad decisions with the 360 and PS3 but for their next systems to actually stop the sale and selling of used games on them would basically the business equivalent to playing Russian roulette with a loaded gun.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 29, 2012, 01:44:57 AM
On the flip side, this would really cripple GameStop as they wouldn't be able to sell used game copies for practically full price when the buyer still has to go back and buy a license to get it out of demo mode.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 29, 2012, 01:55:07 AM
Gamestop's used games market would be limited to the Wii U, 3DS, and Vita. How would the market be effected if the Wii U was the only current system that allowed used game? Would this mean the Wii U would win the console wars by default?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 29, 2012, 06:43:55 AM
Anti-Used game Technology (Always online connection required/Games tied to SEN acct.)
Does that mean that the console always has to be online so the SEN account can be checked? That sounds phony because, surprising as it may be, not everyone has Internet access. If you can't even play games without being online, Sony is limiting the console's reach. And explaining that to people just sounds like a migraine waiting to happen.
And the problem with Skyrim from my understanding is the lack of RAM. The 360 has 512MB whereas the PS3 only has 256MB. People commonly believe the PS3 is the most powerful system, and based on the processor that's probably true, but in terms of RAM it is inferior to the 360.
That's not true. They both have 512MB RAM. 360's RAM is shared between the CPU and GPU, meaning developers can allocate RAM where their game needs it, more on GPU/less on CPU and vice versa. PS3 has 256MB dedicated to the CPU and 256MB dedicated to the GPU. They cannot be shared. From what I understand, this makes it harder to develop for. PS3's RAM might be faster but I can't confirm this.
Quote
Would this mean the Wii U would win the console wars by default?
This kind of seems like one of those "won the battle, lost the war" scenarios. Nintendo could end up selling the most consoles but what if, hypothetically, 3rd parties banded together to support the anti-used games initiative and threw most of their support behind MS and Sony. If people begrudgingly support those systems (hate the policy but refuse to stop supporting these companies), that hurts Nintendo. I'm not saying this is what would happen. Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 29, 2012, 06:49:36 AM
That's not true. They both have 512MB RAM. 360's RAM is shared between the CPU and GPU, meaning developers can allocate RAM where their game needs it, more on GPU/less on CPU and vice versa. PS3 has 256MB dedicated to the CPU and 256MB dedicated to the GPU. They cannot be shared. From what I understand, this makes it harder to develop for. PS3's RAM might be faster but I can't confirm this.
I know. That's what I'm saying. The 360 has the freedom to put any or all of that 512MB of RAM to the CPU, so it can skimp on graphics if necessary for the sake of more number crunching power, but the PS3 is locked at 256MB for the CPU and that's it.
Quote
This kind of seems like one of those "won the battle, lost the war" scenarios. Nintendo could end up selling the most consoles but what if, hypothetically, 3rd parties banded together to support the anti-used games initiative and threw most of their support behind MS and Sony. If people begrudgingly support those systems (hate the policy but refuse to stop supporting these companies), that hurts Nintendo. I'm not saying this is what would happen. Just some food for thought.
This applies to used game retailers as well, such as Gamestop. Since this would hurt their business severely, they may decide not to even sell the PS420 hardware, games, and accessories for new since they can't sell them used. They would also bust their ass to push and promote the Wii U in every way they can, because their success as a used game retailer depends on the Wii U now because its their only hope. So even if they do sell the PS420 and its stuff new, they might hide it more in the back and not promote it as much, just because it is detrimental to their livelihood.
If retailers like Gamestop don't promote the PS420 as much and actively try to turn customers to the Wii U this will severely hurt 3rd party sales on the PS420, so even if they want the PS420 to succeed because they hate the used games market, they may end up being forced to fold just because people aren't buying their games as much.
I don't know if you ever heard of DIVX, but it was a DVD player thing which came out a decade ago from Circuit City which wasn't quite a DVD but it was similar. You didn't actually own the DIVX discs, and you could only watch them for like 24 hours and if you wanted to watch them longer than that you had to hook the player up to a phone line or internet and pay for more time. The market rejected it, and the whole thing was a huge failure which cost Circuit City hundreds of millions of dollars. So I can see something like this happening again if Sony and/or Microsoft attempt to pull this crap. The market would reject it and they would lose so much money they might be forced to go the way of Sega. Then the entire market will belong to Nintendo, until Apple and Steam enter the race.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 29, 2012, 08:27:39 AM
You know, I understand developers not liking the Used Game stores. Basically used game companies are screwing companies out of their hard earned money, and NOT providing gamers a large enough discount to really warrant buying used. It is that frustration of saving less than 10 dollars, but hey that is something...or supporting your favorite developer.
However, I wanna know what happens with game rentals then. I always loved being able to rent or even borrow my friends games, but if this system treats that game like demo then that sucks. Or how about if I bring my game to my friends house...do I have to log in online to confirm it is a game I bought and registered on my account? This just doesn't seem doable...specially because what happens if your friend isn't online.
This will not happen...and if it does happen it is the worst move for the business. I know developers are hurting from loss of sells from used games, and rentals/ borrowing games...but this is not the fix.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 29, 2012, 09:09:45 AM
Hmm, I don't know... If 3rd parties slowly cut out Nintendo in an effort to curtail used games, they might have the upper hand. Will people really boycott Sony and Mcrosoft if they're selling the only consoles with all the games? Boycotts can work but it requires a united front. I remember just last year when people were claiming that they would boycott Skyward Sword and future Nintendo games until the Rainfall games were confirmed to be brought over. I kept thinking, "You're not boycotting ****." And they didn't. Skyward Sword sold as expected and GameStop and Xseed came to the rescue. I know I'm being cynical but I have more faith in the power of an alluring product than I do in people's so-called values (in this instance specifically). I would expect most people to fold and begrudgingly support a system and cause they don't believe in because ultimately the outcome is just less convenient.
Just for clarification, I think cutting out used games is a bad idea. Sometimes I decide at a later date that I want to try a game and it's out of print. A used copy is my only recourse. Buying an additional pass from the publisher to "unlock" a game is fair but not fair. Ultimately, none of this ensures that companies make better products. It ensures that they get to protect their profits without the promise of quality. That's what I like about the culture of trading and buying used games. I can get some value from a purchase I regretted which honestly is more a proviledge than a right. Still, we live in an imperfect world. The system is broken, publishers are getting the shitty end of the stick but their solution is flawed. I'm not sure how to fix it either because one side will always benefit more.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on March 29, 2012, 09:39:53 AM
Renting games, outside of Gamefly, is relatively dead.
Don't kid yourself if you think GameStop wouldn't sell the PS420 if they didn't support used games. That would be effectively cutting 2/3rd of there console market away. They wouldn't do that. If it was MS or Sony I could see them cutting there losses on one of them, but both no way.
Though consider this. MS and Sony either lose money or barely make anything on there consoles as hardware on average. If someone just bought all there games used, which happens, they have effectively lost money on that whole console sell. Now if both of them force you to have to pay there cut, which is what unlocking a used copy amounts to, then the person who bought only used could possible not be just a loss for them.
Its business pure and simple. Even Nintendo isn't fond of the Used market and has made that known. Every Used game sold is less money for Platform holder. Nintendo makes money on average on every piece of Hardware sold, so just selling you a console is enough for Nintendo to make money. You could never take it out of the box, so of course they be more lenient on Used games because they don't cause outright losses for them like Sony and MS.
I guess all this is to say that even if the ability to buy used games cut Sony and MS console sells by half it would be the less profitable half almost guarenteed.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 29, 2012, 10:12:58 AM
However, I wanna know what happens with game rentals then.
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, I think game rentals could still work, but it would be done digitally via the console and its online service thing. You would spend a few dollars, and you could get to play the game for either a limited amount of real world time, or a limited amount of in game time. Then the thing would expire and lock you out unless you paid for an additional rental period.
Actually, this is probably the way all gaming is headed anyway, because if you read the fine print we never actually own the games, we only own the discs they are on, so according to those terms the game companies legally can shut it down or lock us out of it anytime. You have to figure a game like Madden is already like that at least when it comes to the online aspect of it. We can only play that for maybe 3 years online before EA shuts it down, and then our only option is to plop down $60 for the current year's Madden game. If you think about it, its kinda like renting the game. For $60 you get about 3 years of rental time before the game is obsolete and broken.
Just for clarification, I think cutting out used games is a bad idea. Sometimes I decide at a later date that I want to try a game and it's out of print.
Its a bad idea for you and for me, but that's our problem. To the game companies it isn't a bad idea. But one positive thing in our favor is that it is Gamestop's problem, so we have this big 800 lb Gorilla on our side. We are just little piss ants who no one cares about, but Gamestop can duke it out with those big entities on more or less even terms. They aren't doing it because they care anything about consumers, but because it is in their own interest. Fortunately this time around their interest is also our interest.
Quote from: Ceric
Don't kid yourself if you think GameStop wouldn't sell the PS420 if they didn't support used games. That would be effectively cutting 2/3rd of there console market away.
It would be cutting 2/3rds of the consoles away, but not necessarily 2/3rds of the market away. If the Wii U has 90% market share (not likely, but possible) then the PS420 does not represent 2/3rds of the market, so cutting them out wouldn't be a big deal.
The Wii U will have a year or two head start over the competition so its a fact that it will have the lion's share of the market, and by the time the PS430 shows up they will have an uphill battle to catch up. My point is that if Gamestop and other retailers shun them then its going to be very difficult or even impossible to ever catch up.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: bustin98 on March 29, 2012, 10:51:43 AM
All the publishers have to do is give Gamestop a bigger discount on purchasing new games so they have a higher profit margin. Right now, they make, maybe, $10 on a new game purchase. Imagine if that was increased to $25 per new game. That would put it in line with used games, near about, and still sell 'demo' copies where the cost of a new license from the publisher+cost from Gamestop is still less than buying new. People bringing in used games would just make less on the deal, but what other alternatives are there... ebay, but thats still the case today.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 29, 2012, 01:34:59 PM
I imagine locking out used games would be a hard sell. Pirating is illegal. No one but the most devoted anarchist argues that it shouldn't be. People may dislike DRM but trying to prevent piracy is a legitimate excuse that people will accept in theory. Buying and selling second hand goods is NOT illegal. How do you sell the public on this? "Hi, our system prevents you from doing something that the law has always permitted you to do. But we earn more money this way so tough ****." Their best chance is that not enough people will care enough to not buy their products.
But it isn't like used games is some niche thing. The whole reason the industry is doing this is because they claim that it is so rampant that it is ruining the industry (which I think is complete bullshit). That means it's widespread. That means a lot of the target market for these systems buys used games. And it isn't like they won't notice. They'll go to GameStop like always and buy a used game and then hit a brick wall when they load the game up. They cannot NOT notice this.
GameStop doesn't have to shun the PS420 outright, they just have to focus more on the Wii U. As Nintendo fans we have accused GameStop of favourtism before anyway. If used games are locked out then GameStop can just not accept trade-ins for PS3 or Xbox 720 games. That means that the Wii U presence in their stores will be much greater as the Wii U will require extra shelf space for used titles that the other systems will not. Having a no trade-in policy for those other systems would also effectively expose everything. They wouldn't have to **** on the PS4 and praise the Wii U, just saying "sorry we don't accept PS4 trade-ins because the systems locks out used games" would do tons to poison the water for the other systems. Meanwhile GameStop doesn't have to give up the revenue from selling new PS4 and Xbox 720 product. They have all their bases covered while having an easy way (and one that Sony and MS couldn't get mad at them about) to promote the one system that better suits their business model.
Now if they do sell used PS420 games then the whole shitstorm is likely going to go back at them. Just not offering it for those systems would make Sony and MS the bad guys instead of GameStop for knowingly selling "incomplete" games. Knowing GameStop they'll probably **** it up and make themselves look like the bad guys.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 29, 2012, 06:18:21 PM
For what it's worth, Pachter is saying that he predicts GameStop will not even carry the PlayStation 4 if the rumors of locking out used games ends up being true. GameStop is a big chunk of the game market, so a threat like that could be a major deciding factor for Sony.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 29, 2012, 06:37:25 PM
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 29, 2012, 06:38:08 PM
LOL, I know. I hope this is one of those rare times he is right though.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 29, 2012, 07:06:55 PM
Well, ok rentals are out...unless they figure out a way to do it digitally with a download, or something...so what does that mean about borrowing games then, or bringing games to your friends house.
As I said the only way I see that working is if the hardware makes you log into your account to see the game as purchased by you then allows you to play the game a friend's house. This has huge problems because it means every system must be online to play friend's games or borrowed games.
Yeah, I understand we only own the disc...but that is legalize so that corporations can still hold onto their intellectual property. So only owning the discs means you don't actually own the content on the discs and then can't say burn it onto other discs or distribute it on the internet.
However, you should always be able to bring your disc to a friends house and play it or use it, and without being online.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on March 29, 2012, 07:14:21 PM
All the publishers have to do is give Gamestop a bigger discount on purchasing new games so they have a higher profit margin. Right now, they make, maybe, $10 on a new game purchase. Imagine if that was increased to $25 per new game. That would put it in line with used games, near about, and still sell 'demo' copies where the cost of a new license from the publisher cost from Gamestop is still less than buying new. People bringing in used games would just make less on the deal, but what other alternatives are there... ebay, but thats still the case today.
Completely untenable. I can't imagine any company willing to forgo halve their revenue to a retailer. At that point it would be cheaper to run their own stores. Games aren't a commodity like Coke that can be streamlined and production costs taken only a few cents in the dollar. With every release a one shot deal, not matter how much a retailer pushes a game, they are only a retailer, an on-seller.
Used game isn't a problem that need a solution. It's a product of ridiculous MBA group think that fail to see pass whatever numbers get generated in the accounting department quarterly report. They see it as use verses them, not as the other side of a complex economic equation. They only see someone buying used games as a non-revenue generating entity, never examining why that person isn't currently a customer.
My life long story with Nintendo started with Dad buying a Famicom and I variably counterfeit games with 50 in 1 etc. Then we moved on to the SNES, we pirated the vast majority of our games. Then came the N64. I knew I couple pirate, but I didn't. I worked hard, saved for every single game some were used for sure, but if you can't afford new, used is the economic option. Having grown up with Nintendo, I had become a life long gamer, had I been locked out of those formative years with DRM or no used games, I would have long given up on consoles or maybe even gaming altogether. I buy games as the economics permit, but more importantly those years had shaped me into an advocate for Nintendo and gaming in general.
Every time some company comes up with another piece of DRM, anti-used game rant or deliver sub-par product that is not much better than a straight scam, it becomes ever harder to support them in any way. It's gotten to the point I am openly hostile to certain companies. They virtually never use a carrot, always the stick. If the horse is dad they drain the blood and sell it to he glue factory instead of examining why it's dead. They collectively run their sections game industry like the US government runs the US. Parading terrorism to cow the populous in a perpetual state of fear instead of offering something better. As long everyone else loses, they consider it a victory as long as the other side loses more.
I wouldn't be surprised if this continued use of scorched earth tactics used by the big companies is the cause of the next gaming crash. It won't be a boycott, it would be people just giving up and moving on to other less hostile pastimes.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 29, 2012, 09:56:22 PM
Oohhboy: Excellent post. You represent the other side of the equation well...and how the ability to get cheaper games, and even illegal games helped create a gamer.
However, you do have to recognize, that those initial pirated games created a gaming fan, but also did "steal" or prevent the artists who created the original games from getting some of their profits. And I know you can argue no the artists were paid, it was only going to the company...but that company provides the artists work...and needs profit too.
I think used games tells an interesting story. I prefer to buy my products new when I can because I personally want to support the artists, and/or companies I love. It is a personal choice, and I understand that not everybody agrees.
I do this with movies, music, and games. Music has gotten easier for me, because the price of music is relatively cheap, and online stores allow you to buy just the songs you want. Movies are also fairly cheap to rent, buy, or see in the theater. Both of these industries are hurting because of piracy, but are managing because many people will still buy the products because they are relatively cheap.
Now, games are become easier and easier to pirate or buy used, and revenue is being lost. Unfortunately for gaming companies they have two pretty big problems. The relative market for gamers is small, and games are fairly expensive to create and market. This leads them requiring high price points to ensure they can make a reasonable profit. I think it is telling that they measure games only in the millions of units sold. When a movie or album would be a flop if it only sold a few million.
The obvious answer is lower the price of games. The App store has proven if prices are low enough the masses will buy the games. And more people would be willing to buy new games if the prices were lower and more reasonably in their price range. However, economics makes that more difficult.
Look at how much money people save with used games. Maybe $10, $15 dollars. I think more people would buy new if it meant that their games would be at that lower price point. $39.99 is a doable price for consumers for games, it is not too steep...but that $59.99-$69.99 price range is less manageable. Hence the used gaming market. Now, you can then argue that used games would just drop in price to $29.99 and again the gaming market just lost its higher profits with no rewards. But...there are much larger issues to the economics that could prevent that from happening.
Employee overhead, store overhead, buying back games costs, not to mention the idea of buying new and clean to used and dirty...specially if that $10 difference is still in your reasonable price range.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on March 29, 2012, 11:16:39 PM
The non-problem remains. Companies keep asserting that Used=piracy as you have and equate it to lost revenue rather than examining why this is happening. Like the RIAA and the MPAA they aren't interested in being fair and the only tool they are willing to wield is a hammer. It leads to ridiculous situation like SOPA/PIPA where companies advocate remove of civil rights without considering why we even have those rights or even if something is remotely feasible from a technological standpoint.
For the RIAA, the answer is blindingly simple. People no longer have to buy Albums and collectively chosen not to leading to a direct crash of the mainstream market and a diversecation to non-label music. Piracy is only a symptom of the change initially if it wasn't for the RIAA actions which switched cause and causation.
The market for gamers isn't small and for now continues to grow for now. What isn't right is the self generating dilemma where they have priced themselves out of their own market. Instead of growing with the market and breaking new ground in other markets outside of the west, they decided to "Build it and they will come". It's a great idea if you hold some sort of unique local advantage like Vegas when it first formed or Macau where it's primary function is to launder money. But none of the publishers have such an advantage. Everyone is building unlimited budget games, trusting in the computer models that they will pan out. Numbers are sexy because if used correctly they can be a form of hard evidence. Everybody is using the same model and that model makes no concessions that there are other games are out there, that the market like house prices will will always grow or that the models all share the same flaws.
Every time the industry flattens out, scores of developers go out of business and more importantly, this isn't the customers fault. It's no longer about risk assessment, it has devolved into gambling. You have the ridiculous situation with Factor 5, a developer with an unbeatable history, punching way above their weight class with a fraction of the resources, lay low by one game. Activision had Scorched Earth the music game genere which has taken years to even start recovering. Dragon Age is now a dead franchise directly killed by the very MBAs that believe in unlimited ability for the market to absorb BS.
Watch this video (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2) to the Wasteland 2 kick starter. If even halve the stories are remotely true, it paints the games publishing business as an industry ready to collapse from it's own demented ignorant hubris the next time the wind direction changes or the market momentarily depress. They have set fire to the very house they built and blaming the firefighters for the fire. I am sure that all the public libraries and used book markets had killed the an industry that has existed for millennia.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 30, 2012, 03:46:08 AM
LOL, I know. I hope this is one of those rare times he is right though.
If he ends up being right, let's not forget I called this earlier in the thread, so he probably stole it from me. ;)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 30, 2012, 04:08:02 AM
Just for the record. I wasn't trying to apply that used game is pirating software or stealing software. Just that companies may view it similarly because it can result in less money received from their game.
Now, I am all for change in pricing of games, how games are made, what games are considered, and respecting the fan and the player. The market is actually moving away from that. And yes the gaming market is getting larger...but it is nowhere near the size which can handle how many large studios are creating high budget titles to compete for our hard earned dollar.
Most gamers would be lucky if they could buy 12 games a year...I know I would consider myself lucky...one a month. However, the market is filled with many, many more games than that each month. Well, maybe my number of 12 a year is low, but say we increased it to a higher number of 15-16 that is still low number compared to how many games are released a year.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on March 30, 2012, 06:51:18 AM
We actually know what would happen is a game console was to lock out used games. We only have to examine the blow back Capcom received with Resident Evil: Merecenraies. The results were unequivocal. Sales for it crashed, Capcom forced to admit and apologise for their fragrant failure in policy. It didn't help they were caught in their own bold faced lie. Technically the saved game wouldn't prevent you from playing the game on another machine, but the true purpose of the save structure was clear and gamers collectively rejected this soft second hand lock out.
I would imagine any console maker placing a second hand lock out is effectively committing suicide.
Used games will happen and we all know vilifying it isn't a solution. Japan shows even declearing a valid economic activity renting illegal is hopeless. What they should be doing is getting in on the action themselves by setting up a portal that accepts used games to on sell to other gamers, supplanting Gamestop's parasitic function. At the minimum publishers should be encouaging used sales directly between one gamer to another bypassing the middle man. There will never be a solution since they are effectively forbidding a valid economic option. It's called prohibition and history shows it doesn't work.
Game budgets are an internal failure. As discussed before they all believe they hold a unique advantage that allow them to bypass the physics of the market when none hold any sort of advantage. Star Wars the Old Republic is the testament to the direction of failure the game market is heading towards. They built it and barely anybody came. Of those who did come most were sightseers, not residents and the vast majority were not new gamers. We dislike the casuals, but they did postpone the budget bubble from popping for a generation. Unfortunately, that means the bubble has gotten bigger. When it pops we will be losing a lot of devs and publishers on the top end.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on March 30, 2012, 10:12:55 AM
In reality both Piracy and used games sell make the same for the Platform holder. Nothing. The difference is that used games do make Retailers Money and Money can = Leverage over the Platform Holder, so in my mind Used games would be worse as a Platform holder.
As for SWTOR what they made was a WoW clone with a Bioware twist. Unfortunately they cloned Vanilla WoW instead of Modern WoW w/ advancements made in Newer games like Rift, which WoW is moving its behemoth of a ship to incorporate. I think they would have been better served just totally rethinking the genre. If you going to be story based MMO you need to regularly continue the story well end game. /rant
Anyways back on topic. It may be time for smaller cheaper games. Instead of 40 hour games why not have 4 10hr games at $15. Allow you to move your character throughout them. If done well they could be easily done. The point is to be flexible enough with the pricing. It needs to be to the point where it "so what if I can't buy used. There only X" where X is a number that would be considered reasonable to most. Digital is already forced to go that way.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on March 30, 2012, 10:59:45 AM
What you're basically suggesting are episodic games which sound great on paper but sales typically decrease with each new episode until the game is eventually abandonned. That seems less conducive for profitability because even if sales are low and cost is saved by on the back end by ceasing development, most of the cost is spent on the front end with dev kits, pre-production and so on. More people may try it at $15 for the first installment but if it doesn't resonate with people, they won't be back for the next round. With a $60 game, publishers get the most back on their investment up front.
I remember reading somewhere that with inflation, we're paying less than we did on games than before despite the increased retail price. Couple that with rising development costs and it's easy to see why game companies are trying to protect their profits in addition to the simple fact that they're businesses that want to make money.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 30, 2012, 01:16:58 PM
Many industries have to deal with a used market but only the videogame industry acts like it's as bad as piracy and that their whole industry is going to die. Used bookstores and libraries are everywhere and no one ever said that either of those would kill the book industry. And it's a good analogy because books are largely just IP and have a "one and done" life cycle like a videogame. Many people will read a book once just like they will beat a game once.
The used market is just something that any industry has to work around. They either have to provide some extra value (EXTRA value, not formally routine feature removed from the used copy) for owning new or make games with enough replay value that people want to keep them or price them in such a way that buying used is less worth it from a financial perspective. They're also making games with production values that require the game to be a big blockbuster hit with no room for error or the company goes under. And EVERYBODY is doing that. That's just stupid business sense. If you can't sell enough games to justify the budgets then lower the budget. That's how businesses not run by idiots do things. You don't go whining about something beyond your control, you adapt to it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 30, 2012, 01:24:57 PM
The difference between a book and a video game is development costs. A single person can write a book, and the only equipment required is a typewriter, computer, or a pen and paper. The person writing the book probably isn't even being paid to do it. So the cost to write a book is extremely low, and almost free really. But video games are a very different story. Have you ever sat through the end credits at the end of a video game? There can be hundreds of names of people involved. All or most of them are being paid a wage to do it, and some of them like well known celebrity voice actors and composers are probably getting paid very well. So the amount of money required to develop a major game is not very different than the huge amount of money required to make a major motion picture.
That's why a used game market could be more problematic than a used book market. A lot of game developers/publishers seem to be teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, and many have come and gone over the years. Clearly its not a very easy market to thrive in.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on March 30, 2012, 01:33:27 PM
Many industries have to deal with a used market but only the videogame industry acts like it's as bad as piracy and that their whole industry is going to die. Used bookstores and libraries are everywhere and no one ever said that either of those would kill the book industry. And it's a good analogy because books are largely just IP and have a "one and done" life cycle like a videogame. Many people will read a book once just like they will beat a game once.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but here's the problem with your analogy: books degrade in quality and value over time. Pages get torn, covers get bent, ink gets faded. A used book has a much lower value over time than a new one. With used games, though, the case; manual; etc. degrade, but the discs are pretty resilient these days and the actual content of the disc (being digital) does not degrade in an appreciable way. The frills around a game may degrade, but the value of the game itself is more or less constant. So when a person goes in to buy a game, unless they really care about the packaging there's really no quality difference between buying a New or Used copy of a game. Thus, people often buy Used instead of New in a much larger percentage than in other industries, and New sales suffer.
That's the general theory, anyway. Personally, I like Used games being in the marketplace because I like the consumer having choice when it comes to purchasing a version of a game, rather than having a company dictate to the consumer what version of a game they will be allowed to own. It also forces companies to compete to make their New games have greater value, in theory at least.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: lolmonade on March 30, 2012, 01:40:35 PM
So....this is when I finally cross the threshold from "enthusiastic video game purchaser" to "tenative, wary last generation patient gamer". If the claims on Sony & Microsoft locking out used games is true, they better adopt the Steam model of offering sales throughout the year, because I think they will alienate the majority of their potential customers in this.
....I don't think they realize the rammifications of doing something like this.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 30, 2012, 02:37:02 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but here's the problem with your analogy: books degrade in quality and value over time. Pages get torn, covers get bent, ink gets faded. A used book has a much lower value over time than a new one. With used games, though, the case; manual; etc. degrade, but the discs are pretty resilient these days and the actual content of the disc (being digital) does not degrade in an appreciable way. The frills around a game may degrade, but the value of the game itself is more or less constant.
Well discs can get scratched so the game itself can get damaged but I agree that people will care more about a book that remains readable but has some tears or folds than they will a game that runs fine but has a beat up case.
The industry was never cool about used games to begin with but I never heard this "we're all going to die because of used sales" nonsense until THIS gen when everyone starting going for Call of Duty level blockbusters with every release. Seems more like a scapegoat. They also didn't get this extreme about it until the technology existed to implement stuff like online passes and such. They never liked it and never would even if they were all making money hand over fist. They have the technical ability to try to block it but they can't just do it without some excuse so they claim that this is ruining their business. If Nintendo doesn't do it it will be because they're smart enough to realize that potential backlash about could hurt them. It won't be because they're not pissed off about used games. The industry is pissed off that I can lend a game to my friend for the weekend or play local multiplayer without each player forking in. Any possible chance, legal or not, of someone enjoying a videogame without some money coming towards the publisher eats them up. It extends to all entertainment industries. Multiple people watching on one TV. Multiple people listening to one stereo. "ARRGH! All those freeloaders that could be giving us dough!"
If the videogame industry felt they could charge us every single time we loaded up the game like some arcade machine they would. Some person will play the same game longer than someone else with neither person trading it in. That's no good because if you play your one-time purchase game for months and months you might not buy another game in the time between. Replay value is killing videogames because people don't need to buy a new game as frequently to get their fix! Sounds crazy but if their were no trade-ins, I can imagine them bitching about this. Trade-ins encourage them to try to make a game have lasting value so the person keeps it. But without that what incentive is there? It's better if the player gets bored of that game quickly so that they'll buy more.
It is their best interest that we pay as much for each hour of videogame play time as possible, whether it be through subscriptions, pay-to-play, DLC, or frequent purchases of new games. Anything the interferes with that is "lost revenue".
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 30, 2012, 03:03:16 PM
discs are pretty resilient these days and the actual content of the disc (being digital) does not degrade in an appreciable way.
I assume you probably take good care of your discs. Not everyone does. When you buy a game used it can be beat to hell with scratches and other problems, and it really does effect the content on the disc. If a disc is beat up too bad it will damage the data and cause problems. Maybe blu-ray discs are more resilient than DVDs, and maybe that's what you're referring to, but being resilient doesn't mean being invulnerable. You might think your disc is resilient, but try giving it to some 10 year old kid for a week and see what happens.
In the end, all game discs really are is just a flimsy piece of plastic. Plastic as we all know is far from being a durable material. Plastic is used because its cheap, not because it lasts.
That said, I also know someone who had a copy of Borderlands for their PS3 and for no reason at all the game cracked. I don't know if it was due to humidity or temperature (they live in Florida) or some manufacturing defect, but it wasn't due to abuse of any kind. It just spontaneously cracked.
If anything, Books are actually more resilient. A book can be beat up pretty bad and still be readable, but even minor scratches on a disc can severely ruin the data or at least the ability for the laser to read that data.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on March 30, 2012, 03:13:04 PM
I assume you probably take good care of your discs.
Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if GameStop took my traded-in games and sold them as one of their mysteriously common "display copy" New games, because I keep mine pretty pristine (including case, etc.).
Quote
Maybe blu-ray discs are more resilient than DVDs, and maybe that's what you're referring to, but being resilient doesn't mean being invulnerable.
Blu-Ray discs were on my mind at the time because I've never seen a scratched Blu-Ray disc and I buy Used PS3 games with some regularity. I haven't seen a moderately-damaged Used 360 game in a long time, though. It's not like last generation where I could flip a coin on picking up a Used PS2 game and if the coin landed on a side the disc was probably damaged beyond repair.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 30, 2012, 04:19:14 PM
But we are talking about used games. Its great that yours are kept in pristine condition, but many if not most used games will have some wear such as scratches on the disc. A few light scratches usually aren't a problem, but a lot of them or some deep ones will likely cause some issues, if not outright ruin the game.
But whether light scratches are a problem or not, they are something most buyers will want to avoid even if it doesn't effect the gameplay. So the quality and therefore value is compromised even if there is the slightest of wear. And a lot of buyers do want the games to be in the original case and with the manual and so on. If those are missing, even though the game is still perfectly playable, the value is lessened.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 31, 2012, 03:33:43 AM
Well this is the first generation where HD graphics and games with real story lines, voice actors, and basically movie level productions were required for big games. So this is the first generation where the risk is greater in many ways than the reward....the reward is still there and when you strike gold, you are very, very happy.
I believe a lot of publishers and developers believed the hype that the industry would just continue to grow and more and more people would buy games. But as I said earlier there are limited resources to buy games, and games are probably the first on the chopping block when economic pressure hits a family or individual. So, when you have 2-3 Mega blockbuster games coming out every month or two months. At least one of those games isn't going to sell well. Add to that all the other games coming out and you see the dilemma. The market expanded just not enough for the types of games being created.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 02, 2012, 04:57:53 AM
Quote from: BlackNMild2k1
That is very wrong. Graphics can do much more. The problem is that it will cost far too much in both time and money to achieve them. PS360 leapfrogged in tech over the previous gen and cost skyrocketed because of it. We should just now be getting to that level of graphics in the console space if we want to keep things affordable, so it makes sense to slow things down a bit.
Agreed, just look at Battlefield 3 on a high-end PC. Clearly EA was targeting high-end graphics, which is what the next generation of consoles will finally offer.
Quote from: BlackNMild2k1
2 PS3's duct taped together will be a very capable machine. Especially if they stick a well thought out GPU in there this time.
Assuming this is true though, that really does leave the ball in MS's court. Do they continue with the tech arms race towards real-time movie grade CG in hopes that Sony will continue to spend and compete? Or do they continue on their current path of expansion towards the casual market?
MS is on deck to show it's hand at E3 2012, Nintendo is already all in, but I'm not sure if Sony will be at that table too.
Also agreed. Though why can't MS target both causal and mainstream gamers at the same time? You know, like they've been doing with the Xbox 360 for the past 7 years?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 02, 2012, 04:59:40 AM
So....this is when I finally cross the threshold from "enthusiastic video game purchaser" to "tenative, wary last generation patient gamer". If the claims on Sony & Microsoft locking out used games is true, they better adopt the Steam model of offering sales throughout the year, because I think they will alienate the majority of their potential customers in this.
....I don't think they realize the rammifications of doing something like this.
Sony does offer sales on PSN. Most of them are for PS Plus members, but that's just a $49 a year subscription. Cheap!
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on April 02, 2012, 08:13:40 AM
It still wouldn't be worth it for people like me. The sales are the only thing I would use Playstation Plus for so I would need to make up the cost of the service in sales before it actually start saving money. I don't buy that many games so I'd probably end up losing money.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on April 02, 2012, 04:48:12 PM
The difference between a book and a video game is development costs. A single person can write a book, and the only equipment required is a typewriter, computer, or a pen and paper. The person writing the book probably isn't even being paid to do it. So the cost to write a book is extremely low, and almost free really. But video games are a very different story. Have you ever sat through the end credits at the end of a video game? There can be hundreds of names of people involved. All or most of them are being paid a wage to do it, and some of them like well known celebrity voice actors and composers are probably getting paid very well. So the amount of money required to develop a major game is not very different than the huge amount of money required to make a major motion picture.
That's why a used game market could be more problematic than a used book market. A lot of game developers/publishers seem to be teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, and many have come and gone over the years. Clearly its not a very easy market to thrive in.
This argument is complete bullshit. I don't have the time or patience to explian why. I'm just stating. Used books are left alone because of long-established law and tradition, not because they cost less to produce. Book publishers and sellers are routinely facing bankruptcy too.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on April 03, 2012, 09:52:54 AM
... Used books are left alone because of long-established law and tradition, not because they cost less to produce. Book publishers and sellers are routinely facing bankruptcy too.
Agree with that statement. Publishers have always belly ached about used book sells. Though they have sort of had to allow it because books have been around for so very very long. Also they get a bit of cushioning that games do not get. A lot of books the amount you get for trading them in or the amount you save from buying used really isn't that much plus you know the whole Library thing.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 03, 2012, 11:03:12 AM
Books have development costs. Who says they don't? Most publishers give advances to people who write books so that they can eat and pay bills while devoting their time to writing the book. Each time a publisher does that is basically a gamble since the book may or may not sell.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 03, 2012, 11:20:24 AM
Capcom takes a piss in own cup and drinks it (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Capcom-Responds-BBB-Complaints-Distinction-Between-DLC-Disc-Locked-Content-41021.html). Capcom makes no differentiation between DLC on or off disc.
Relavent? Yes. Why? Shows the level of contempt most major publishers have the gamers. Why support people and companies that are out there openly insulting you. I thought they learned their lesson with Mercenaries. I am clearly wrong.
At this point it doesn't matter what kind of justification they use for XYZ. If they can't even treat paying customers properly, there is no reason not to treat every large publisher including Nintendo with open hostility and contempt until there is a permanent, positive change to their behaviour.
We need a thread for gaming name and shame.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 03, 2012, 06:01:06 PM
Actually I kinda agree with Capcom...however from a different angle.
Basically on or off the disc many companies are using DLC to get a few extra bucks off of a customer. These companies are doing it by withholding content already developed in the initial game release, for any number of reasons. Though, the largest now seems to be able to sell it later.
So if the content is already developed it doesn't matter if it is initially one the disc or if it is installed later because in both those cases the developer initially withheld product from the consumer to make more money.
I think download content is more acceptable when the developer creates the content after the game is created to add a new mission or subplot or something after the fact. Then that is justifiable...and obviously not on the disc.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 03, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
If I pay for a complete experience and get a complete experience, I'm happy. If there's something on the disc that I have to pay extra for, then I don't really care. I don't have to pay for it. People who enjoy fighting games may feel differently with characters, a compulsion to complete the roster, but they were gonna make you pay extra for something. How it got to you is kind of a moot point.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on April 03, 2012, 06:47:21 PM
Capcom takes a piss in own cup and drinks it (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Capcom-Responds-BBB-Complaints-Distinction-Between-DLC-Disc-Locked-Content-41021.html).
Not everyone considers that a bad thing. (http://i.imgur.com/ILA50.png)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 03, 2012, 08:00:25 PM
There was an interesting discussion of this kind of thing on Weekend Confirmed a couple weeks ago. The argument made was that the DLC content only exists because the business plan was to sell it. It's not a question of charging for the content vs. including it for free; it's charging for the content or the content not existing. Once you realize the business end of it, that the content wouldn't be there at all if they weren't charging for it, it becomes irrelevant whether it's on the disc or not.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 03, 2012, 08:07:01 PM
There was an interesting discussion of this kind of thing on Weekend Confirmed a couple weeks ago. The argument made was that the DLC content only exists because the business plan was to sell it. It's not a question of charging for the content vs. including it for free; it's charging for the content or the content not existing. Once you realize the business end of it, that the content wouldn't be there at all if they weren't charging for it, it becomes irrelevant whether it's on the disc or not.
But it makes no sense to charge for a patch that just unlocks content that's already on a disc.
You already bought the game, why should you be denied content that is already on the disc?
Making DLC that is an expansion to the game is a better idea, IMO. It extends the replay value of the game.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 03, 2012, 08:22:39 PM
The content wouldn't be on the disc if they weren't going to charge for it, though. The business plan for the game involves that content being paid DLC. Whether it's on the disc or has to be downloaded later isn't important
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 03, 2012, 09:01:59 PM
The content wouldn't be on the disc if they weren't going to charge for it, though. The business plan for the game involves that content being paid DLC. Whether it's on the disc or has to be downloaded later isn't important
But the whole concept of having to download an unlock key to access content that is already on the disc is ridiculous. It's like buying a car, only to find out you can't use the radio unless you pay an extra $30. I know you're not paying for the game's unlock key, but it's a decent analogy.
I remember when we used to unlock extra content by actually playing the game. Only the most skilled players could unlock everything in the game. Smash Bros. Brawl and Kid Icarus Uprising are perfect examples of this.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 03, 2012, 09:48:18 PM
I think it's pretty underhanded as well. But I really don't care either way. In fact, I'd prefer "DLC" be on the disc so when hackers get through with it, you don't have to deal with these underhanded tactics if you don't want to.
DLC is a terrible thing to begin with. There is no way in hell that it can't become a slippery slope into debauchery. At least Capcom is honest about it. How many levels do you think are made after the fact for Modern Warfare? I'd bet less then half. I'd bet you anything that Activision withholds the entire product in order to sell it slowly through DLC.
More companies are bound to follow....even Nintendo. But why can't the purchase of the game not be enough?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 03, 2012, 10:16:20 PM
Capcom are hardly the only company to charge people to unlock something (it's not DLC then). It's moronic and insulting since the content is already done. It's different to plan to do DLC, a good example is WWE 12 added in Brodus Clay, who made his return after the game was already out. I refuse to pay for content already on the disc.
Title: PS4 to release 2013.... ahead of Xbox720
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 03, 2012, 10:36:12 PM
PlayStation 4: Sony “confident” of pre-Xbox 720 release http://ht.ly/a1pXW (http://ht.ly/a1pXW) <--VG24/7
Quote
The design goalposts for PS4, including specs, were in place at least two years ago, we were told. Our source said that Sony is “confident” it will have the console at market ahead of the next generation Xbox next Christmas.
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“Sony are completely in the belief that they have the jump on Microsoft this time,” they said. “You should be watching the timing of next year’s E3 keynotes, and who’s going to go first.”
A second source said this morning that all next-generation systems will be in place “by 2014″.
Quote
We were told today that Crytek was scaling its tech on the assumption that PS4 was going to be using a 24-core Cell processor as opposed to the eight-core unit in PS3. The studio was forced to halt development and start afresh when it was informed PlayStation 4 won’t be using Cell at all.
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In addition VG247 has been told that elements of Vita’s launch hardware were changed to ensure that PS4 and Vita will be able to connect in a similar style to Nintendo’s Wii U and its controller – due for release this year – with Vita’s being used to control PS4 games with both twin sticks and touch.
I know both Sony & MS said they will not be talking Next Gen @ E3 this year, but you just know that one or both of them are gonna drop some sort of teaser to attempt to spoil the Nintendo party that will be E3 2012. And for as much as we will all likely luv luv luv E3 this year, E3 2013 is gonna be INSANE!!!
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 03, 2012, 11:11:47 PM
Insanolord, at what point does DLC stop becoming DLC and become fraud by deception?. Would you consider it fair game if they sold you 10% of a game at full price and then asked you to pay extra for the for the remaining 90% they had already developed but locked behind a pay wall? 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10%?
Sure the company planned this all along, it's in "The Budget", but that plan doesn't matter to the consumer. the consumer doesn't give a rats ares what justification you might give. All they see is you double dipping. There is no percentage you can say this is where DLC stops and fraud begins. Even by stripping out content off disc and selling it back to you later is fraud since the very action revolves around the company actively being dishonest about their products.
All this DLC abuse will only poison gaming to future growth. There is no reason why such behaviour should ever be condoned as acceptable.
Looks like Crytek got trolled.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 03, 2012, 11:13:07 PM
Wasn't the Cell processor supposed to be some revolutionary huge leap forward that supposedly shattered Moore's law? At least that was how Sony seemed to have trumpeted it when it was first introduced. I guess it really wasn't all it was cracked up to be if they are kicking it to the curb.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 03, 2012, 11:17:45 PM
Insanolord, at what point does DLC stop becoming DLC and become fraud by deception?. Would you consider it fair game if they sold you 10% of a game at full price and then asked you to pay extra for the for the remaining 90% they had already developed but locked behind a pay wall? 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10%?
If the content accessible to you normally on the disc feels like a full experience, does it really matter? That's really the key when it comes to DLC: regardless of the origin of the DLC content, does the game you buy at retail already feel like a worthy experience? I've seen games on both sides of that question. In the case of something like Fallout 3 or Valkyria Chronicles, I will eagerly tell you that what was on disc was well worth my $60+. In a lot of Capcom or EA titles, perhaps not so much and I budget my money accordingly
I get rather tired of the entitled gamers of this generation who feel like they should have access to everything a company does for a game, just because that's how it's been in the past. Gaming in modern times is IMO the best it's ever been overall, and it's easily the cheapest it's ever been as well (accounting for inflation). There are so many options and so many different ways you can acquire games, and people latch onto this one (mainly, I suspect, because they choose to not afford it).
If you don't like DLC, don't buy it. It's really that simple. But if you're not going to buy it, don't act like you're entitled to it. I'm just sick of the whining over this subject.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 03, 2012, 11:24:46 PM
But they could pull a McDonald's and make the cheeseburger smaller and smaller each year until you don't recognize it anymore.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 03, 2012, 11:29:14 PM
Insanolord, at what point does DLC stop becoming DLC and become fraud by deception?. Would you consider it fair game if they sold you 10% of a game at full price and then asked you to pay extra for the for the remaining 90% they had already developed but locked behind a pay wall? 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10%?
If the content accessible to you normally on the disc feels like a full experience, does it really matter? That's really the key when it comes to DLC: regardless of the origin of the DLC content, does the game you buy at retail already feel like a worthy experience? I get rather tired of the entitled gamers of this generation who feel like they should have access to everything a company does for a game, just because that's how it's been in the past. Gaming in modern times is IMO the best it's ever been overall, and it's easily the cheapest it's ever been as well (accounting for inflation). There are so many options and so many different ways you can acquire games, and people latch onto this one (mainly, I suspect, because they choose to not afford it).
Its the principle of it. DLC is supposed to stand for "Downloadable Content", right? But lately its more like "Disc Locked Content".
If you don't like DLC, don't buy it. It's really that simple. But if you're not going to buy it, don't act like you're entitled to it. I'm just sick of the whining over this subject.
Since games are $60 new, I think people have the right to feel entitled to what is already stuffed on the disc at the game's launch. The point of DLC was for developers to continue working on the game and adding new content AFTER the game's release and then consumers can optionally purchase that.
The issue here is this content is already completed and included on the disc at the game's launch. Its not something introduced months later. That means this stuff was already completed and ready to go, and the only reason it was locked out is so companies can squeeze even more money out of people.
There is some serious potential for abuse with this, because with this precedent being set, where does the line get drawn on what should be locked out of the game as DLC? Stuff that would otherwise be included in the game by default might get dissected and locked out so consumers can be charged another $5 or $10 or whatever.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 03, 2012, 11:33:44 PM
Insanolord, at what point does DLC stop becoming DLC and become fraud by deception?. Would you consider it fair game if they sold you 10% of a game at full price and then asked you to pay extra for the for the remaining 90% they had already developed but locked behind a pay wall? 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10%?
Sure the company planned this all along, it's in "The Budget", but that plan doesn't matter to the consumer. the consumer doesn't give a rats ares what justification you might give. All they see is you double dipping. There is no percentage you can say this is where DLC stops and fraud begins. Even by stripping out content off disc and selling it back to you later is fraud since the very action revolves around the company actively being dishonest about their products.
All this DLC abuse will only poison gaming to future growth. There is no reason why such behaviour should ever be condoned as acceptable.
Looks like Crytek got trolled.
I'm not trying to defend that kind of DLC, only pointing out that whether it's on the disc or not isn't the huge distinction some people make it out to be. Overuse of DLC can be a major problem, but whether the part of the game they're charging extra for is on the disc or held back so that you have to download it later isn't important at all.
EDIT: Although I'm sick and tired of the overuse of the word entitled, I agree with the general point Broodwars makes, in that if enough people refuse to buy the DLC, and stop supporting companies that abuse it, it will go away. Unlike him, however, I believe you're fully within your rights to argue that content that's released as DLC should have been part of the game.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 03, 2012, 11:39:01 PM
The issue here is this content is already completed and included on the disc at the game's launch. Its not something introduced months later. That means this stuff was already completed and ready to go, and the only reason it was locked out is so companies can squeeze even more money out of people.
If the content that you purchased with that $60 satisfied you as a full experience, you really don't have a right to bitch that you should have had access to more. If that content didn't satisfy you as a full $60 experience, then why do you care about DLC? You probably already traded the game in. Just don't the DLC you don't want to pay money for.
So long as the developers make you feel like you got your money's worth with the main game, I really don't see what "right" people have to complain about content on the disc they have to pay to access. For example, Bioshock 2 was one of the earlier games that was controversial for having multiplayer DLC on the disc that you had to pay to unlock. As as Single-player gamer, though, I feel like I definitely got my money's worth for that excellent SP campaign, as well as a moderately fun multiplayer mode. I really didn't give a damn that there was multiplayer content on the disc. I was content with what I had, so I didn't buy that DLC. Half a year later, the excellent Minerva's Den SP DLC was released, and I did buy that and enjoyed it. I bought what I felt was worthy of my money and discarded what wasn't. Crisis averted.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 03, 2012, 11:43:07 PM
So don't buy it. That's how capitalism works. Take your business to Wendy's, where they make better burgers anyway.
That only works as long as competition exists and offers a suitable alternative. When everyone is making their products smaller you can't just take your business elsewhere. And besides, video games aren't commodities. If you are a fan of a specific game you can't take your business elsewhere, because no other company is going to offer that exact same game.
And besides, video games aren't commodities. If you are a fan of a specific game you can't take your business elsewhere, because no other company is going to offer that exact same game.
::)
Actually, yes they totally are. And I would argue that there's so much competition in the industry for most genres, that unless your interests are just extremely niche you can probably find one or more other similar products to substitute for the one you're giving up. You might have to go as far as the Indie scene to find them, but they're there.
Back in my old AnimeOnDVD.com days, site director Chris Beveridge had a great line in response to all the people on his site constantly complaining about various facets of the industry, and I think it's equally applicable here (I'll substitute "video games" for "anime"):
"[Video Games are] not a right. [They are] a privilege, a consumer product, art, work for hire, a luxury, a hobby, entertainment."
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 03, 2012, 11:56:45 PM
By the way, I think there is a distinction that should be made here between saying that there is locked content that should be part of the main game and saying all content on the disc should be part of the original purchase. In certain cases such as Mass Effect 3, I think the former is perfectly valid. From everything I've heard about the "From Ashes" DLC, that is content that is important to conveying the themes and story of the main game. Bioware should have made that content part of the main game and made something else DLC content, IMO. In the end, I ended up buying it with some free Microsoft points, so I don't feel particularly bad about that. But if I'm perfectly content with the content of the main game, I don't see what right I have to complain that additional content should have been made available to me.
It all comes back to the quality of the game you bought, whether the developers made you feel like your $60 was well-spent. Sadly, some developers don't really seem to care, like Capcom.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 12:03:20 AM
The more specific meaning of the term commodity is applied to goods only. It is used to describe a class of goods for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a market.[3] A commodity has full or partial fungibility; that is, the market treats it as equivalent or nearly so no matter who produces it. "From the taste of wheat it is not possible to tell who produced it, a Russian serf, a French peasant or an English capitalist."[4] Petroleum and copper are examples of such commodities.[5] The price of copper is universal, and fluctuates daily based on global supply and demand. Items such as stereo systems, on the other hand, have many aspects of product differentiation, such as the brand, the user interface, the perceived quality etc. And, the more valuable a stereo is perceived to be, the more it will cost.
A commodity by the definition I was referring to (which is the economic definition) is a good which has no qualitative difference no matter who provides it. Oil is an example of a commodity. No matter who you buy oil from it is always exactly the same. So again, Video games are not commodities. There are qualitative difference, and they are not interchangeable.
And I don't care that Webster has multiple definitions. This is the definition I mean.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 04, 2012, 12:04:30 AM
By the way, I think there is a distinction that should be made here between saying that there is locked content that should be part of the main game and saying all content on the disc should be part of the original purchase. In certain cases such as Mass Effect 3, I think the former is perfectly valid. From everything I've heard about the "From Ashes" DLC, that is content that is important to conveying the themes and story of the main game. Bioware should have made that content part of the main game and made something else DLC content, IMO. In the end, I ended up buying it with some free Microsoft points, so I don't feel particularly bad about that. But if I'm perfectly content with the content of the main game, I don't see what right I have to complain that additional content should have been made available to me.
It all comes back to the quality of the game you bought, whether the developers made you feel like your $60 was well-spent. Sadly, some developers don't really seem to care, like Capcom.
Okay, now that you've said that I'm pretty clearly in your camp, broodwars.
I don't have a philosophical issue with DLC, but I don't think I've bought any outside of Rock Band (though I've probably spent at least $100 on extra songs for that game). When it's used properly it can work out very well for everyone involved: the publisher gets money, and gamers get extra content they wouldn't have otherwise. If companies begin to abuse it we need to speak up, and more importantly not buy it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 04, 2012, 12:28:58 AM
But they could pull a McDonald's and make the cheeseburger smaller and smaller each year until you don't recognize it anymore.
So don't buy it. That's how capitalism works. Take your business to Wendy's, where they make better burgers anyway.
Not buying McDonald's and simply not eating are two different things though. But let's get away from this metaphor.
DLC is good in theory, as I can always turn down extra content, but it's a slippery slope. What if movies made you pay to unlock the director's cut? What if books made you pay to unlock the preface? What if ESPN made you pay to unlock the highlights of the championship game?
Your argument would be that "Didn't you enjoy the movie though? Didn't you enjoy the story though? Didn't you enjoy the game though?"
So what if I did? Am I not entitled to what I have bought, payed and PHYSICALLY own though?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 04, 2012, 12:33:34 AM
What if movies made you pay to unlock the director's cut?
They already do that. If you buy a movie and then they release a directors cut (James Cameron announced before Avatar released that they would released an extended version later, so people knew ahead of time), then you have to pay for it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 12:35:17 AM
It's the dishonesty that will hang companies and DLC. People don't like getting ripped off, or lied to. Hand waving it off as "Capitalism" is intellectually dishonest. When did it become socially acceptable to act like a Ferengi?
You have completely misinterpreted the word commodity. Games do not fit your linked dictionary definition.
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: an economic good: as a: a product of agriculture or mining b: an article of commerce (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commerce) especially when delivered for shipment <commodities futures> c: a mass-produced unspecialized product <commodity chemicals> <commodity memory chips> 2 a: something useful or valued <that valuable commodity patience>; also: thing (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thing), entity (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entity) b: convenience (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convenience), advantage (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advantage) 3 obsolete: quantity (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quantity), lot (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lot) 4 : a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (as brand name) other than price 5 : one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market <stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry — Film Quarterly>
The only argument you might have is that a commodity is anything defined as having value or as a "thing". Games are considered an economic good not a "Thing" therefore would fall under the economic definitions spelled out in your link and it doesn't fit any of them. Even games in the same series is considered a unique product in itself. If games are a commodity, then films are a commodity. Everyone agrees films are not a commodity, so why would videogames be considered differently?
I shouldn't have a problem with DLC if it is a fair and open exchange. But more often than not, it isn't a fair exchange. The company is almost, always dishonest about the deal and leveraging that information advantage. What you're saying broodwars is that it is ok to be abused this way as long as it is capitalism and it's legal. DLC is becoming videogame SPAM. You have a serious problem when what should be a acceptable transaction is increasingly viewed as nothing more than a scam at worse or something to be wary of at best.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 12:42:24 AM
I shouldn't have a problem with DLC if it is a fair and open exchange. But more often than not, it isn't a fair exchange. The company is almost, always dishonest about the deal and leveraging that information advantage. What you're saying broodwars is that it is ok to be abused this way as long as it is capitalism and it's legal. DLC is becoming videogame SPAM. You have a serious problem when what should be a acceptable transaction is increasingly viewed as nothing more than a scam at worse or something to be wary of at best.
No, what I'm saying is that gamers created this situation by buying "abusive" DLC early on when the format was still new (horse armor, anyone? Overpriced Call of Duty map packs, anyone?). Our community gave and continues to give companies like Capcom license to do whatever they want with DLC. Now it's here to stay, and it's our duty as consumers to either purchase or not purchase DLC. If companies can't make money selling sub-standard products with on-disc DLC, they won't do it. The investors that make up this company will not allow the company to keep losing money doing these practices.
But no, people complain about the DLC while our community as a whole simultaneously continues to purchase it. Our community's purchasing patterns created this situation, and only our said community's purchasing power can undo it.
As I've said multiple times, though, if I'm happy with the game I purchased and feel I got my money's worth, if its developer puts out interesting-looking DLC I'm going to buy it and I won't care whether or not it's on the disc already. If I didn't get that feeling, chances are I wasn't going to buy the DLC anyway, so what do I care where it's stored?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 12:42:41 AM
I don't have a problem with Downloadable Content which expands the game in new and substantial ways. DLC which fits that description is great. What I do have an issue with though, is Disc Locked Content. If that's what the DLC abbreviation stands for, then I'm against it.
Although its a separate issue, I also dislike DLC which is just custom bonus attires or minor little things like that. I'm not against that philosophically. If someone is willing to be nickle and dimed for that stuff, they should have that right. I would pass on it, though. That said the Borderlands DLC is an excellent example of DLC done right. Each of those DLCs was almost like an entire new game added, and the price was very reasonable. It was also not something pre-existing on the disc at launch which you had to pay to unlock. So in all respects the Borderlands DLC is a shining example of how I think all DLC should be. If all DLC were like that I would have nothing to complain about.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 04, 2012, 01:10:10 AM
Your argument would be that "Didn't you enjoy the movie though? Didn't you enjoy the story though? Didn't you enjoy the game though?"
So what if I did? Am I not entitled to what I have bought, payed and PHYSICALLY own though?
No. You are entitled to what you were sold. If I promise to give you X in exchange for $$ and I end up giving you X+Y in exchange for $$, I have fulfilled the terms of our agreement. I have not lied to you or deceived you in anyway. If later on, I decided to give you access to Y for a price, that's fair game.
No one's giving even remotely fair comparison. Paying for a car radio? Like how satellite radio comes in most new cars but you gotta pay extra to use it? Or OnStar? That **** is like $200/yr. The preface of a book? Do I need the preface to enjoy/understand the book? If no, I don't care. If yes, I either pony up or just don't buy the fucking the book.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 04, 2012, 01:18:44 AM
The problem is it's not entirely clear what you are being promised when you buy a game. One of the core premises of capitalism is an informed consumer, and unless you go into great detail with previews, reviews and videos before purchase you don't know exactly what you're paying for.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 01:48:58 AM
No. You are entitled to what you were sold. If I promise to give you X in exchange for $$ and I end up giving you X+Y in exchange for $$, I have fulfilled the terms of our agreement. I have not lied to you or deceived you in anyway. If later on, I decided to give you access to Y for a price, that's fair game.
It depends on what the definition of "X" and "Y" is. Is "Y" a completely separate, distinct, and original item? Or is "Y" just something the game company decided to break off of "X" and then bundle along with X, but require you to pay extra in order to use?
Let's say "X" is a car , and "Y" is a component of that car, like let's say the transmission or something. So let's say you buy "X" and the car dealer throws in "Y" but "Y" is locked and you have to spend another $1,000 to unlock it. Do you see what I'm saying? Its not a very honest way of doing business, even if it is legal.
As Insanolord said, there's no way to know the full extent of what you are getting with a game unless you do a huge amount of research into it, but that would mean you would know all the spoilers and that might ruin the experience for you. So its not reasonable for anyone to fully know what they are getting into when they are buying a game. That makes it the game company's responsibility to not rip them off or take advantage of them by chiseling off pieces and selling them separately. But how do you draw the line? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? The problem is its the game companies who get to make that decision, and of course they have a profit motive. So there's way too much potential for abuse.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on April 04, 2012, 01:57:39 AM
PlayStation 4: Sony “confident” of pre-Xbox 720 release http://ht.ly/a1pXW (http://ht.ly/a1pXW) <--VG24/7
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The design goalposts for PS4, including specs, were in place at least two years ago, we were told. Our source said that Sony is “confident” it will have the console at market ahead of the next generation Xbox next Christmas.
2 years? I don't know if I believe that. Sony is notoriously bad at keeping secrets. Everything gets leaked out of there. If we really wanted, we could probably find out what Kaz Hirai had for lunch yesterday.
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“Sony are completely in the belief that they have the jump on Microsoft this time,” they said. “You should be watching the timing of next year’s E3 keynotes, and who’s going to go first.”
A second source said this morning that all next-generation systems will be in place “by 2014″.
If true, they don't seem that concerned about Nintendo getting the jump on them. Sounds like a bad move considering Nintendo launched last in 2006 with significantly weaker hardware and surprised everyone. If anything, they're the wild card here. For everything everyone thinks they know about Wii U, Nintendo has only revealed the controller. What else are they planning? Everyone seems to be counting them out.
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In addition VG247 has been told that elements of Vita’s launch hardware were changed to ensure that PS4 and Vita will be able to connect in a similar style to Nintendo’s Wii U and its controller – due for release this year – with Vita’s being used to control PS4 games with both twin sticks and touch.
Sony is kidding themselves if they think Vita is a viable solution to the tablet controller.
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I know both Sony & MS said they will not be talking Next Gen @ E3 this year, but you just know that one or both of them are gonna drop some sort of teaser to attempt to spoil the Nintendo party that will be E3 2012. And for as much as we will all likely luv luv luv E3 this year, E3 2013 is gonna be INSANE!!!
Anything less than a full system reveal and games isn't going to spoil the Nintendo party. Still, Sony and Microsoft don't need to spoil the party; they simply have to go out and show solid games. Remind everyone that PS3 and 360 have a lot of life in them (because they do and Wii U won't change that). In fact, announcing successors might have the opposite effect. Instead of raining on Nintendo's parade, they make their current products look like they're going to be replaced soon. Nintendo has more pressure to release a sucessor because of how dated Wii hardware is. PS3 and 360 are still going strong, with no signs of slowing down. I remember reading last year that 360 was actually enjoying better sales.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 02:06:44 AM
Let's say "X" is a car , and "Y" is a component of that car, like let's say the transmission or something. So let's say you buy "X" and the car dealer throws in "Y" but "Y" is locked and you have to spend another $1,000 to unlock it. Do you see what I'm saying? Its not a very honest way of doing business, even if it is legal.
Considering a car can't run without a transmission, I'd say that's a laughably poor comparison at best.
Quote
As Insanolord said, there's no way to know the full extent of what you are getting with a game unless you do a huge amount of research into it, but that would mean you would know all the spoilers and that might ruin the experience for you. So its not reasonable for anyone to fully know what they are getting into when they are buying a game. That makes it the game company's responsibility to not rip them off or take advantage of them by chiseling off pieces and selling them separately. But how do you draw the line? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? The problem is its the game companies who get to make that decision, and of course they have a profit motive. So there's way too much potential for abuse.
As someone who does extensive research on the games I'm interested in purchasing weeks to months ahead of when I buy them, I'd argue that it's your job as an informed consumer to do your research. If you don't do it, you only have yourself to blame if you get scammed. You'd be expected to do your research if you were going to buy any number of other expensive thing in your life, and I don't see how games should be any different.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 04, 2012, 02:24:16 AM
Your argument would be that "Didn't you enjoy the movie though? Didn't you enjoy the story though? Didn't you enjoy the game though?"
So what if I did? Am I not entitled to what I have bought, payed and PHYSICALLY own though?
No. You are entitled to what you were sold. If I promise to give you X in exchange for $$ and I end up giving you X+Y in exchange for $$, I have fulfilled the terms of our agreement. I have not lied to you or deceived you in anyway. If later on, I decided to give you access to Y for a price, that's fair game.
No one's giving even remotely fair comparison. Paying for a car radio? Like how satellite radio comes in most new cars but you gotta pay extra to use it? Or OnStar? That **** is like $200/yr. The preface of a book? Do I need the preface to enjoy/understand the book? If no, I don't care. If yes, I either pony up or just don't buy the fucking the book.
It's dishonest marketing though, unless it distinctly says "DLC already included for extra fee" right on the box.
Obviously you guys have no problem with partially owning something. I do. If it's on the disc, and I own the disc, I should be able to access the entire disc. The foresight for a company to pull that off is down right insulting. At least make us think you aren't trying to nickel and dime us.
Again, you guys may see this as no different than selling the package online, but it is! It's shipping out with an incomplete game and only later can you buy what the developer would call the "Full Experience". That's bullshit and you know it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 04, 2012, 02:27:45 AM
Let's say "X" is a car , and "Y" is a component of that car, like let's say the transmission or something. So let's say you buy "X" and the car dealer throws in "Y" but "Y" is locked and you have to spend another $1,000 to unlock it. Do you see what I'm saying? Its not a very honest way of doing business, even if it is legal.
Considering a car can't run without a transmission, I'd say that's a laughably poor comparison at best.
Quote
As Insanolord said, there's no way to know the full extent of what you are getting with a game unless you do a huge amount of research into it, but that would mean you would know all the spoilers and that might ruin the experience for you. So its not reasonable for anyone to fully know what they are getting into when they are buying a game. That makes it the game company's responsibility to not rip them off or take advantage of them by chiseling off pieces and selling them separately. But how do you draw the line? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? The problem is its the game companies who get to make that decision, and of course they have a profit motive. So there's way too much potential for abuse.
As someone who does extensive research on the games I'm interested in purchasing weeks to months ahead of when I buy them, I'd argue that it's your job as an informed consumer to do your research. If you don't do it, you only have yourself to blame if you get scammed. You'd be expected to do your research if you were going to buy any number of other expensive thing in your life, and I don't see how games should be any different.
Because doing extensive research into games can significantly reduce their enjoyment. Most other expensive things are a lot more straightforward.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 02:32:27 AM
It's dishonest marketing though, unless it distinctly says "DLC already included for extra fee" right on the box.
Actually, I've noticed that a lot of PS3 games do have something similar. If you look at the back of the case, there's usually a series of descriptors in the upper-right corner. For example, my Tales of Graces F case has the following descriptors: "Leaderboards * Add-On Content * Trophies". And Tales of Graces F has a lot of on-disc DLC, some of which I've purchased for the sake of having it available during my 1st playthrough of the game (basically boosters to help me get through grinding faster, all of which are available in the New Game+ Grade Shop. I just value my time).
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DLC should be free. I'm just going to come out and say it. Because unless it's not, you can't know for sure what the intentions were by the company and therefore can't vote with your dollars.
Intentions don't matter, and you as consumer can always vote with your dollar. This is the silly argument I was railing against earlier, and just reading it reminds me of Linkara's Superboy Prime vocal routine. Saying "something should be FREE" because you don't want to pay for it is childish.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 02:34:15 AM
Broodwars, you're blaming the victim. I have no doubt that there are some rape victims that enjoy being raped, but it doesn't make it right even if there is a majority that enjoy it.
It is not an unreasonable assumption that what should be an everyday transaction should be a fair one. You are making an unreasonable and impossible demand where everybody must have perfect or near perfect information before making a purchase of any kind. You're advocating for a no hold bars world where the relationship is one of Perpetrator and Victim. In your world, if I trick you out of everything you own because of some fine print, it's fair game because you didn't do your research. This is the logical conclusion of your argument and it's one you can't win. It's that same argument that allow people to say that we should let people die because they can't pay. You're arguing for an increase of injustice.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 02:40:43 AM
Broodwars, you're blaming the victim. I have no doubt that there are some rape victims that enjoy being raped, but it doesn't make it right even if there is a majority that enjoy it.
It is not an unreasonable assumption that what should be an everyday transaction should be a fair one. You are making an unreasonable and impossible demand where everybody must have perfect or near perfect information before making a purchase of any kind. You're advocating for a no hold bars world where the relationship is one of Perpetrator and Victim. In your world, if I trick you out of everything you own because of some fine print, it's fair game because you didn't do your research. This is the logical conclusion of your argument and it's one you can't win. It's that same argument that allow people to say that we should let people die because they can't pay. You're arguing for an increase of injustice.
There is so much wrong with that post, I don't even know where to begin and I'm not sure why I should even bother. Silly me for assuming that if you're going to spend $60 (which is a lot of money for a single product) on a game that you are responsible for spending it wisely and doing your due diligence, and likewise for any additional funds. No, it's the companies' fault that you don't know how to be a responsible consumer. And it's apparently totally equivalent to sexual crime, because that's certainly not a horrible, laughable straw man. Gotta love how today's society believes they shouldn't have to be responsible for their actions, that someone else is always to blame and if you want something, you should just be given it because you want it. Ugh...
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 04, 2012, 02:56:32 AM
You're basically defending nickle and diming though. I don't why you, the consumer, would do that.
And I'm not saying something should be free because I don't want to pay for it. I'm saying it should be free because I already did pay for it. I bought it. It's in my hands. I can break it or set it on fire, but I can't access everything that's on it?
That's plain stupid; the opposite of common sense.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 03:00:45 AM
This is coming from the guy who doesn't even understand the meaning of a commodity even after linking to a dictionary of your choosing. If you don't even understand basic economic definitions, it is a safe assumption you have little to no understanding of economic systems.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 03:03:14 AM
You're basically defending nickle and diming though. I don't why you, the consumer, would do that.
Because I believe companies have the same right to try to nickle & dime you as you (the consumer) have the right to not buy it and make the system financially ruinous. And the best part is that so long as you exercise your right, those mega, evil, NEFARIOUS gaming companies can't monetarily justify exercising theirs. The reason they put out this DLC is because they think you will buy it. If you don't buy it, they don't make money and stop doing it. The only reason it's gotten to this point is because you (the gaming community) have bought it in sufficient amounts. The companies are responding to the Demand we as a community have demonstrated, so if you want to point fingers at anyone point it at yourselves.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 04, 2012, 03:21:29 AM
You completely ignored the part where I said this:
And I'm not saying something should be free because I don't want to pay for it. I'm saying it should be free because I already did pay for it. I bought it. It's in my hands. I can break it or set it on fire, but I can't access everything that's on it?
That's plain stupid; the opposite of common sense.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 03:35:47 AM
And I'm not saying something should be free because I don't want to pay for it. I'm saying it should be free because I already did pay for it. I bought it. It's in my hands. I can break it or set it on fire, but I can't access everything that's on it?
That's plain stupid; the opposite of common sense.
Well, I don't believe you'd written part of that yet when I originally responded, and I wanted to address that main line while it was fresh in my mind. As for that quote, as painful as it may be think of a physical product that way, you did not pay for everything on that disc. My father (who is a higher-level employee at a major PC software company) must drill this into me at least twice a month. You pay for a license to access the content the developers intend for you to experience. For better or worse, that's in your EULA.
Now, do I agree with that from a moral perspective? *shrugs* I can see several sides to that argument, but as I've said whether or not I actually care tends to come down to what I thought of the experience I was allowed access to. If it was an unsatisfactory experience, it tends to bother me quite a bit if something worthwhile that would have made that experience satisfactory is locked behind an on-disc pay wall. If it was a satisfactory experience, whatever. I got my money's worth, and perhaps I'll pay for more content, regardless of where it is stored.
In some cases, it's also somewhat necessary for DLC content to be on-disc. For instance, I've heard many problems cited with Mortal Kombat players trying to play online with DLC-downloaded characters. If you or your opponent doesn't have a character one of you pick (and you didn't download some kind of compatibility DLC), the match can't proceed. So on some level, it's probably a good thing that Capcom puts DLC fighters on the disc. It ensures that all players online have characters their opponent may use against them, for the sake of stable online play. That's one example I've heard cited on various podcasts, anyway.
Now, I've listed a few examples where I thought the game's content was satisfactorily handled before DLC, so here's one where I didn't: Assassin's Creed 2. I thought the main game was completely satisfying until I reached near the end of the game where the game practically screams at you that you're about to skip 2 DLC chapters. If the game hadn't just advertised in the narrative that I was missing out on content, I would have been OK with purchasing the later content. But the way that was handled just soured me on the whole thing, and I didn't end up getting the DLC packs until last July or so (looong after I had traded the game in) when they were bundled with the digital version of the game for around $10.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Enner on April 04, 2012, 08:53:10 AM
Doesn't help that the two missing Assassin's Creed 2 memory sequences are bad, especially when compared to the rest of the game.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 04, 2012, 09:38:42 AM
Wow, this is getting into a heated debate about nothing.
The fact is companies are going to do this. Period. It is right or wrong...it is how it is. Some people will like it because it means easier access to DLC...no waiting for downloads and they can quickly enjoy an extra bonus to a game they enjoy. Others see it as nickeling and dining because if the company could put it on the disc it should be available to play. Some one else might see it another way...hey free content I can hack into and not pay for it...like iI would if I had to download it.
In the end, you the consumer are choosing whether or not you are being nickeled and aimed and whether or not you want to accept it...by purchasing the additional content or even purchasing the original game. You have the right to just say no.
That said the honest question of SHOULD game companies do this...is an interesting question, but largely irrelevant because unless the masses of gamers reject this type of pay to play content already on the disc then companies will continue to do it.
Personally, I don't like the practice, but I don't see it as evil or even nickeling and diming I see it as a company struggling to make a little more profit on a high risk product they pro ducted.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 04, 2012, 09:48:54 AM
You what a company struggling could do to make a little more profit? Make a better game.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 04, 2012, 10:14:51 AM
The problem is it's not entirely clear what you are being promised when you buy a game. One of the core premises of capitalism is an informed consumer, and unless you go into great detail with previews, reviews and videos before purchase you don't know exactly what you're paying for.
The thing about that is the people bitching about DLC know what they're buying. If I sell you a fighting game with 18 characters and 4 "secret" ones, you're gonna know who they are. If I say, "There's three more on the disc, I'll let you have 'em for $5" that's separate consideration.
No. You are entitled to what you were sold. If I promise to give you X in exchange for $$ and I end up giving you X+Y in exchange for $$, I have fulfilled the terms of our agreement. I have not lied to you or deceived you in anyway. If later on, I decided to give you access to Y for a price, that's fair game.
It depends on what the definition of "X" and "Y" is. Is "Y" a completely separate, distinct, and original item? Or is "Y" just something the game company decided to break off of "X" and then bundle along with X, but require you to pay extra in order to use?
Let's say "X" is a car , and "Y" is a component of that car, like let's say the transmission or something. So let's say you buy "X" and the car dealer throws in "Y" but "Y" is locked and you have to spend another $1,000 to unlock it. Do you see what I'm saying? Its not a very honest way of doing business, even if it is legal.
Let's not do that since the transmission is an essential part of a car, and DLC is not an essential part of a game. I made a reference to satellite radio and OnStar earlier that I think are more applicable.
Quote
As Insanolord said, there's no way to know the full extent of what you are getting with a game unless you do a huge amount of research into it, but that would mean you would know all the spoilers and that might ruin the experience for you. So its not reasonable for anyone to fully know what they are getting into when they are buying a game.
A "huge amount"? That's not accurate as you pretty much have to actively avoid spoilers on the internet. And it's really not hard to find websites where people review games and actively talk about game content, though I can't think of one right now. . .
And if you're worried about not getting spoilers, you can only finding out that you're paying for disc locked content by going online, a place you'd avoid to not receive spoilers. And if you didn't know the difference then why would it matter?
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That makes it the game company's responsibility to not rip them off or take advantage of them by chiseling off pieces and selling them separately. But how do you draw the line? Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? The problem is its the game companies who get to make that decision, and of course they have a profit motive. So there's way too much potential for abuse.
It depends on if people actually feel genuinely ripped off or just entitled to something they were never promised. That's the line. Is there potential for abuse? Yeah, but that's the thing about everything.
It's dishonest marketing though, unless it distinctly says "DLC already included for extra fee" right on the box.
Not really. If the box says "X charcters" and you get "X characters" no body lied to you. If they say, "Get Y more character for $5," no one lied to you whether it was on the disc or not.
Quote
Obviously you guys have no problem with partially owning something. I do. If it's on the disc, and I own the disc, I should be able to access the entire disc. The foresight for a company to pull that off is down right insulting. At least make us think you aren't trying to nickel and dime us.
Again, you guys may see this as no different than selling the package online, but it is! It's shipping out with an incomplete game and only later can you buy what the developer would call the "Full Experience". That's bullshit and you know it.
The purpose of DLC IS to nickle and dime you. Whether the developer legitimately continued making new **** for the game after release or not. They would only keep working because they can get another big pay off for incremental work done, instead of having to come out with another full sized project.
Also, the idea of ownership when it comes to software has come up time and time again as to exactly what you "own." Ultimately, it's a license. Not a list of 1s and 0s.
And then there's the idea of a developer shipping out an "incomplete game." What exactly makes a game incomplete? There are obvious lines we could draw, like not having a last level, incomplete story, etc. But no one would buy those games anyway. So, where is the incomplete game line?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 11:24:29 AM
Let's say "X" is a car , and "Y" is a component of that car, like let's say the transmission or something. So let's say you buy "X" and the car dealer throws in "Y" but "Y" is locked and you have to spend another $1,000 to unlock it. Do you see what I'm saying? Its not a very honest way of doing business, even if it is legal.
Considering a car can't run without a transmission, I'd say that's a laughably poor comparison at best.
That's not the point. Instead of Transmission, let's say Y is some part of the car which is important but not critical for it to function.What do you have to say now?
You are just deliberately changing the subject because you have no argument.
As someone who does extensive research on the games I'm interested in purchasing weeks to months ahead of when I buy them, I'd argue that it's your job as an informed consumer to do your research. If you don't do it, you only have yourself to blame if you get scammed. You'd be expected to do your research if you were going to buy any number of other expensive thing in your life, and I don't see how games should be any different.
Remember how pissed off and disappointed you were over Skyrim and how buggy it was on the PS3? By your own logic, you should have done your research and by your logic it is all entirely your fault and Bethesda is not to blame for it at all.
But as I recall you were bashing Bethesda and also Sony's QA for allowing that to be released. You didn't blame yourself or other consumers for not doing enough research.
So I guess what it comes down to is your principle about business having the right to do whatever the market will tolerate only extends so far. When it does things which piss you off, then its a different story.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 11:32:50 AM
Let's say "X" is a car , and "Y" is a component of that car, like let's say the transmission or something. So let's say you buy "X" and the car dealer throws in "Y" but "Y" is locked and you have to spend another $1,000 to unlock it. Do you see what I'm saying? Its not a very honest way of doing business, even if it is legal.
Considering a car can't run without a transmission, I'd say that's a laughably poor comparison at best.
That's not the point. Instead of Transmission, let's say Y is some part of the car which is important but not critical for it to function.What do you have to say now?
I say that nickmitch already covered this argument. DLC is at best equivalent to something like satellite radio or GPS. When you buy the car, you still have to pay for those services. Just because they're in the car, that doesn't mean you get free access to them. They're extras, and you pay accordingly.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 11:35:51 AM
I edited my post while you were replying. That "its your job to be an informed customer" argument seemed to have went out the window when you were pissed off about Skyrim and its many bugs.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 12:11:35 PM
I edited my post while you were replying. That "its your job to be an informed customer" argument seemed to have went out the window when you were pissed off about Skyrim and its many bugs.
I was as informed a customer about Skyrim PS3 as anyone could have been at the time of my purchase. The gaming media didn't do their job and report on/review PS3 Skyrim, allowing themselves instead to be suckered into reviewing the versions Bethesda wanted them to review. If you bought Skyrim PS3 in that first week, as I did, there was no way to know ahead of time how bad that version would be since the information just wasn't out there (especially since the most egregious bugs only appeared after you'd put a substantial amount of time into the game). After my best friend's time with Oblivion and my own time with Fallout 3, I expected bugs to be sure, but nowhere near as bad as Skyrim PS3 was.
The difference is that Bethesda not only shipped a bad product, but that they shipped a bad product and then conspired with Sony and the gaming media to make sure that no one could know how bad it was until they'd already given their non-refundable $60. I consider the whole PS3 Skyrim debacle to be borderline fraud willingly perpetuated by multiple entities in the industry, which is especially bad since the bugs in PS3 Skyrim could corrupt your HDD and destroy your PS3. That's a far cry from having content on the disc you have to pay extra for, especially since PS3 games (and I see 360 ones do as well, though it's more hidden) have a descriptor on the back of the case telling you that add-on content for the game exists.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 12:35:46 PM
BS. One moment your saying the consumer bares the resposibility to stay informed. Then with the next moment it's no longer your job to be informed passing on the blame to others? You were suckered as much as the next person and it was by design by the company with full knowledge that they were releasing an incomplete/buggy game.
It is a market failure that one has to make purchasing decisions based on the assumption that the other party is inherently dishonest with such a basic transaction. What does that say to you about society as a whole that must operate at such a high level of distrust? Why does buying a game have to become an adversarial relationship? Buying a game shouldn't be this hard.
I told you earlier that you can't win this argument because you are advocating for a system that increases injustice, but you couldn't see pass the first sentence of that post.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 12:45:42 PM
especially since PS3 games (and I see 360 ones do as well, though it's more hidden) have a descriptor on the back of the case telling you that add-on content for the game exists.
I tell you what, if game companies were to put a descriptor on the case specifically stating that the game contains disc locked content that you have to pay to unlock then I am on board with you 100% that the ball is now in the court of consumers. But as it is, there is no such indicator on the packaging, and that too is borderline fraud.
You say customers should be informed by reading reviews and whatnot, but when have you ever read a review in a gaming magazine stating that a game has disc locked content? It might have happened, but I've never seen it. Customers have a right to know what they are buying (or more accurately, what they are buying but not getting). That's why product labels exist. Consumers want to know if something has trans fat or high fructose corn syrup in it. But we also want to know if there is disc locked content in our games.
If people know its there and still want to buy it, so be it. But we should have the right to know so we can make our own informed decisions. You say consumers tolerate this crap, but I suspect the majority of consumers don't even know its there. Its not so much that they tolerate it as it is that they are ignorant of it, and that is due to the borderline fraud committed by the game companies. Quietly inserting this disc locked content into the launch discs and not saying anything about it is intentionally deceptive.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on April 04, 2012, 01:08:58 PM
Wasn't the Cell processor supposed to be some revolutionary huge leap forward that supposedly shattered Moore's law? At least that was how Sony seemed to have trumpeted it when it was first introduced. I guess it really wasn't all it was cracked up to be if they are kicking it to the curb.
It probably was, but in the computer game custom hardware for things like processor are barely tolerated even if its vastly superior to Von Neumann Architecture. Its a hard force to buck. Intel tried once and they couldn't break it.
... People don't like getting ripped off, or lied to. Hand waving it off as "Capitalism" is intellectually dishonest. When did it become socially acceptable to act like a Ferengi? ...
Always. Literally, if you are a true Die-Hard Capitalist then Ferengi are the purest form you could ever achieve. That's why all cultures and governments live somewhere in the grey.
If you think of the Disc like the Internet, a medium of data transportation (Which it actually is.) It sort of clears this up for a bit. I pay every month to access the Internet and Content therein. There is a lot of content on the Internet that I have to pay for. I had already paid for the Internet, so if we go buy the everything on the medium approach all the software and porn that can be had should be mine for my monthly fee. Its already on the Internet you see. If you look at it as just a transportation mechanism that yes I pay to use the Internet and there is content, like NWR, that I am now entitled to be able to view for my monthly charge.
The medium of Transportation be it the Internet or Disc is irrelevant. DLC will be planned to be sold seperately and whether you have to wait to download it from a server or just unlock it is irrelevant. It won't change what happens.
An interesting side note, this is exactly how you get some of the weird loop holes and procedure in government.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 04, 2012, 01:23:20 PM
BS. One moment your saying the consumer bares the resposibility to stay informed. Then with the next moment it's no longer your job to be informed passing on the blame to others? You were suckered as much as the next person and it was by design by the company with full knowledge that they were releasing an incomplete/buggy game.
You're not making an apples to apples comparison here. If I sold you an excessively buggy game and charged you for a patch after promising a reasonably bug-free game, then that could be construed as fraud. Maybe. More like extortion. Anyway, the key piece of fraud is deception. In no way is disc locked content deceptive, unless the promise was a disc full of data, all of which you could readily access. If that were true, it'd be a different story. I don't understand why it being on the disc makes a difference. Would it make you feel any better to if devs intentionally withheld content so that they could "legitimately" let you download it later? If they flat out said it was removed from the disc, so as to not piss people off because they were getting nickle and dimed anyway?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on April 04, 2012, 01:40:33 PM
I wish this thread had DLC that re-railed this discussion. See what I did there? No? Okay, I'll see myself out.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2012, 01:47:16 PM
Here's what I think is the problem with DLC already included on the disc. Until recently console games didn't have DLC. EVERYTHING on the disc was accessible to the player unless it was some cancelled feature that someone forgot to physically remove. The only DLC that existed was expansion packs for PC games but those games never were about unlocking content it was about NEW content. Yes, many PC games clearly planned to have an expansion pack available ASAP so in that sense they were "withholding" content. But when you bought an expansion pack you got new physical files and programs. You were given something new.
DLC that is already on the disc is largely arbitrary. It was ready for the game's release and was shipped out with the game and they just decided "no, you have to pay extra for this". Yeah, they probably would not have spent the extra development time making it if they didn't plan on selling it as DLC but that's not the point. The point is that until this generation when we bought a game we got EVERYTHING on the disc or cartridge and all expansions involved actual new content being provided physically. Now we don't. Why? What makes it acceptable to take that away from us and to now tell us that we have to pay to unlock the full game that is on the disc we bought? What makes it acceptable to decide that THIS portion of the game on the disc is covered by the purchase price and this section isn't? And how does one make a clear distinction between something that should be available right away and is something that was designed specifically for DLC and wasn't part of the main game budget? There is no way to determine that. At least before when you got what was on the disc and all expansions were extra files you had to download or buy and install there was a clear seperation. No one had a problem with that model and it worked well for all parties. Consumers got to access everything on the physical copy they bought and publishers still had the ability to provide and charge for extra content.
DLC isn't new, they just changed how it works. If we never had it, maybe this on-the-disc stuff would fly but we had it without that for years. What justification is there to change the "rules" on us?
The thing is that you can get rid of this DLC-on-the-disc nonsense and a company like Capcom can STILL do the same thing they're doing now without any real backlash from consumers. They can prepare the DLC during the main development like always and have it planned from the get go. BUT they can keep it off the disc and hold off on releasing it until a few weeks after release. It's the same thing for them but consumers won't complain that it's already on the disc or that since it was released on day one that it should have been there all along. They're pretty greedy idiots to not realize how easily they could tweak their strategy and stop looking like the bad guys.
From a customer perspective the only benefit of DLC is to get more content for a game we really like and that was the real selling point of the first PC expansion packs. Nickel and diming DLC only benefits the company. What sort of nutbar would WANT to have the option to pay for all sorts of chincy stuff that 10 years ago would either be on the disc or wouldn't exist? No one wants that, some suckers will just go with it. No one would ever have ASKED for it but they would and did ask for additional levels or missions. That sort of DLC truly reflects the wants of gamers.
If DLC was illegal I honestly wouldn't give a ****. The only time I wanted it was for Guitar Hero/Rock Band but instead Activision just released tons of "sequels" and Rock Band did the same thing with the Beatles. The one time that microtransactions made sense and they instead insisted on going with the old cookie-cutter sequel model, likely because in this case that was the model that jerked consumers around more.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 01:50:32 PM
Wrong nickmitch, the expectation is that the game is reasonably bug free from the get go. They knew full well they were releasing a buggy game and they were deceptive in their marketing to the public and it's representation to the media.
Removing it from the disc is no different from having it on disc. Shifting it off disc is only serves to obfuscate their premeditated dishonesty. Having on disc content locked out by a pay wall only exists to hide the true price of a product, an action that is inherently dishonest and runs counter to capitalism should you frame it that way as it moves away from achieving perfect information. How do you know how much something is worth if you are not given the true price? How can ou make an informed decision if such basic information is being omitted?
They are abusing their market position and you are arguing for that continued abuse. Consumers as a whole maybe larger than any one company, but they are largely incoherent. Through that incoherence, they are largely incapable of affecting changes that are positive to their self interest short of generating massive amounts of outrage. Most are content as we are now infighting, hand waving away these abuses with one excuse after another.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 02:19:39 PM
Sheesh, I step out for an hour to do some minor grocery shopping and suddenly the topic erupts again...
Oohhboy - What you're missing is that I did every bit of research possible on Skyrim before I purchased it. I read and watched reviews, listened to podcasts discussing the game, read posts on the PS3 Skyrim forums, and talked about the game extensively with my best friend (who had purchased the game ahead of me and was 10-15 hours in at the time). IGN, in fact, even had a video at launch talking specifically about the PS3 version where they said that the game was "fine" on that console. I did my research as an informed consumer, and neither fellow gamers nor critics gave a sign that the PS3 version was as messed-up as it was. I bought a bad version of a good game despite my every move to avoid doing so, and as a result I am not giving Bethesda more of my money until they change their ways.
By contrast, gaming websites frequently post press releases, news stories, and reviews that specifically mention the presence of DLC. I remember the internet fury when it was leaked that Street Fighter x Tekken had on-disc DLC characters several weeks ahead of the game's launch. There are plenty of sources on the internet where an interested gamer can research the presence of DLC, so I don't see the two things as equivalent.
Chozo Ghost - I'm fine with games having more clear disclaimers on the case stating that there's content on the disc locked behind DLC pay walls. The current disclaimers don't bother me, but there's no harm in having more specifics so gamers can be better informed. That sounds like a fine middle ground on the subject.
Ian - I'd rather have the option to purchase or not purchase on-disc DLC than have the content simply not be made (which it wouldn't be if companies couldn't profit off of it). The industry is never going back to "the good old days", and I don't see the problem in giving gamers further choice in how they choose to experience their games. You don't have to purchase this content.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on April 04, 2012, 02:30:52 PM
There's a lot of words up there, so if someone's said this already, I apologize for repeating and also commend you for being correct. The gist of (at least one of the) arguments in opposition to on-disc, unlockable DLC seems to be that it is offensive or dishonest in some way to be artificially locked out from content you purchased and have otherwise in-hand. I think this argument is misplaced.
You just seem to be arguing about delivery method. If the extra content it is somethig you download, that apparently is OK. But if all you download is an unlock key for content already on your disc, this is not OK. Personally, I see little distinction. In fact, I would rather the extra, unlockable content already be on the disc. It will be faster to access, if and when I want it. I won't have to wait for a potentially large file to download and install.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
Ian - I'd rather have the option to purchase or not purchase on-disc DLC than have the content simply not be made (which it wouldn't be if companies couldn't profit off of it). The industry is never going back to "the good old days", and I don't see the problem in giving gamers further choice in how they choose to experience their games. You don't have to purchase this content.
No is forced to buy anything so it is nice to have options. It does kind of suck though that you'll pay full price for a game that charges you to unlock something that ten years ago would have been free. I'm not saying DLC should be outlawed but I sure wouldn't care if it was. I could do without the whole concept.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 03:09:49 PM
It didn't matter how much research you did, they knew and they lied to everybody including you. The media had on good faith believed when told the PS3 version was "fine". They had clearly abused their postion and trust. It wasn't some obscure bug they didn't find, it is something that would happen with every play through. If they are willing to lie to you over this, imagine the lies they are tell ing you to sell on disc content and striped dlc.
It's a lot more than simply a delivery method problem. Ian Sane had expanded well on that issue. It's about the motives, intentions and premeditation of striped DLC and on disc content. DLC isn't new, but before it was always honest new substantial content. It's not a question of choice or "It doesn't exist if not for DLC", it has always existed and the company isn't giving you a "choice", they are double dipping, selling the same thing twice, on content they have already created and normally available as part of a whole package in one transaction. This is an unacceptable change in relationship between the developer and gamer.
Such a "choice" isn't one you should have to make in a first place. The choice is a false one. For those who don't buy into on disc content or striped dlc are left with an incomplete base game and it's done by design only to extract more money on the same amount of content as before.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 04, 2012, 04:16:35 PM
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 04:28:21 PM
If DLC comes out weeks or months after the release of a game, and if you download it and the file is at least a few hundred megabytes or 1 or 2 gigabytes then you can feel confident you are getting some new expansion which significantly adds to the original game and you know you are getting your money's worth. But if the DLC is available on release day or soon after, and is only a 100kb or similar file, then you immediately know you are being ripped off. Nothing substantial could ever be packed into a download that's only 100kb. That's only enough for an avatar or wallpaper at best.
But a serious issue of all DLC which I don't think anyone has brought up in this thread yet is how is that going to be accessible 10 years from now after all the online services get shut down? You may have the disc with the DLC on it locked away, but without that online service how the hell can you access it? You can't. Even if you paid for it years ago. And that's wrong.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 04, 2012, 04:55:23 PM
But a serious issue of all DLC which I don't think anyone has brought up in this thread yet is how is that going to be accessible 10 years from now after all the online services get shut down? You may have the disc with the DLC on it locked away, but without that online service how the hell can you access it? You can't. Even if you paid for it years ago. And that's wrong.
Honestly, I'm not terribly concerned about that. 10-15 years from now, I foresee all these games and consoles being hacked and the content archived on some future website or whatnot. Considering how widely hacked all the previous consoles have been, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. The internet loves archiving this stuff. You download some PS3/360-compatible file, open it up on your PS3, and it unlocks and installs all the DLC and patches.
That's assuming that the content rights holders don't shut all that stuff down. But considering how successful they've been so far with content from old consoles, I doubt that'll be the case.
That's assuming that by that point I'll still care about these games, and that I didn't already repurchase my old favorites on some subsequent console.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on April 04, 2012, 05:20:19 PM
The issue of what happens to DLC ten years from now is the same issue about always-online single player games and locking out used titles and going with a download-only model. I'm not thrilled about it but I've realized that a lot of people don't care. How do you expect someone to care about what's going to happen in ten years when they trade their games into GameStop a month after they buy it? It doesn't matter for people that exist only in the present and that's why any of this stuff has taken off. If the whole world thought like me then DLC would never have taken off and a game like Diablo III would be doomed to failure on its DRM alone.
But I agree with broodwars in that 10 years from now all of this stuff will be hacked so it won't be lost. Still, you know that these companies are not going to be cool with this. They'll try to track down on the illegal stuff and for any part of it that is legal, they'll be lobbying the government to make it such. I don't like the idea that we don't own the copy of IP we buy, that it is only a "licence" for a finite period of time the company arbitrarily decides. That puts too much power in the hands of corporations. Public acceptance of those practices will push the law more in that direction. Yeah, right now, they can't really nail us too hard for bypassing these things but we don't know what things will be like in ten years. What if in ten years the internet is strongly regulated so it isn't as easy to do this stuff? What if ten years from now being caught hacking your old PS4 results in such an overblown punishment that it isn't worth the risk? The videogame companies are lobbying this stuff and as people gleefully accept the concept of "licencing" IP it will make it easier for the government to cater to the videogame companies.
We'll never "lose" any videogame but it might be such a pain in the ass to retrieve the old stuff that it isn't worth the hassle. And of course being able to circumvent something easily isn't justifcation enough to allow the restriction in the first place. I would prefer to just not have it there at all. If the law was such that it was illegal to drink straight from a milk carton I wouldn't be too scared of getting in trouble for doing it in the privacy of my own home. BUT it would be better if I didn't have think about it at all. I would prefer to just play my old used games without any issues.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2012, 06:15:53 PM
Honestly, I'm not terribly concerned about that. 10-15 years from now, I foresee all these games and consoles being hacked and the content archived on some future website or whatnot. Considering how widely hacked all the previous consoles have been, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. The internet loves archiving this stuff. You download some PS3/360-compatible file, open it up on your PS3, and it unlocks and installs all the DLC and patches.
That is certainly a possibility, but as Ian pointed out it would be illegal and it shouldn't be illegal to be able to indefinitely enjoy the DLC you legally purchased. It isn't morally wrong to do it in any way, but the law wouldn't care. You could face something like 10 years in prison or a 500,000 dollar fine, or whatever it gets jacked up to by then. Just because you had legally purchased the game in the past wouldn't matter, and there would probably be no way for you to prove it anyway.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 04, 2012, 11:29:12 PM
I come bearing another piece of gaming shame. EA voted America's worse company (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/168010/EA_brushes_off_Worst_Company_in_America_label.php).
And a pretty good follow up article on Forbes. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/04/04/ea-is-the-worst-company-in-america-now-what/)
I voted with my wallet years ago and haven't brought an EA game in the longest time. The problem is that companies don't have a concept of a negative/spoiled vote. If you don't spend money, you don't exist and if you spend money you have just done what they wanted you to do all along. The only time they notice anything is wrong when somehow gamers manage to form a barely coherent boycott of a game, crashing the sales, something that happens so rarely I doubt they even it comes up on an actuary tables since they push so heavily for day one sales. All this is in the face of the jabbering masses new to the industry who don't know what their rights are when handed them and the apologist like broodwars who consistently insist that the we have "moved on", with one excuse after another, saying the new regime is better than the old when it was with old is where both gamer and developer reached maximum benefit.
Current DLC model only exists to hide the price of a game. Imagine if instead of striping out content to sell back to you, they jacked up the price to the same amount as if you brought the DLC. $60 games now $70 or $80, reflecting the true amount of what the company wants from you. Would you still buy it given the sticker price shock? or do you prefer being boiled slowly like a frog?
I should have found Luigi dude's image ages ago. In 3 pictures it shows why the current DLC model is both unethical and broken.
Current DLC model only exists to hide the price of a game. Imagine if instead of striping out content to sell back to you, they jacked up the price to the same amount as if you brought the DLC. $60 games now $70 or $80, reflecting the true amount of what the company wants from you. Would you still buy it given the sticker price shock? or do you prefer being boiled slowly like a frog?
I would wait until the price came down or just buy the game used. It's not that complicated.
And I'm sorry companies you hate still exist even if you don't buy their products. It's just one of those things that happens sometimes.
And that picture again is a terrible metaphor. The last picture has a noticeable chunk missing from it. Seeing the full picture costs an extra $45. Anyone who's seen the rest of the picture (a reviewer) can tell me what the deal is ahead of time, leaving me free to decide that's horseshit and not be bothered with it.
Honestly, I don't know what the **** you're even talking about any more. You're posts are starting to read like something I'd rather not describe to avoid breaking any rules.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 05, 2012, 12:03:08 AM
If drawing a picture can't show you what the problem is, there is nothing else I can do for you.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 05, 2012, 12:06:54 AM
It's not a picture, it's a abstract caricature.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 05, 2012, 12:13:54 AM
I come bearing another piece of gaming shame. EA voted America's worse company (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/168010/EA_brushes_off_Worst_Company_in_America_label.php).
Which is really ridiculous and comes off as childish on the part of voters. Even within the gaming industry, there is at least one company far worse than EA (Activision). You pull away to look at companies in the general American economy, and that vote looks even more ridiculous. EA is many things, but "the worst company in America"? Hardly.
And what's more, because of the way this vote comes down, what message does this really send to EA? I read the Forbes article, and even it wasn't sure. Oh look, internet gamers don't like EA. Waaaah. It must be a Tuesday. The total lack of perspective shown in this vote just downplays any meaning it might have sent, because any PR rep can look at this and easily pick it apart so it can't be taken seriously.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 05, 2012, 12:22:25 AM
Looking at the bracket makes me wonder a few things. How did BoA beat Wal*Mart? How did Target even make the list? Is there really no sympathy for the Post Office? It's dying and still comes 6 days a week (for now).
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Oblivion on April 05, 2012, 12:23:15 AM
It's a user voted list. Enough said.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 05, 2012, 12:25:12 AM
I suppose. But the Target thing still bugs me. They give 5% of their net income to communities. Name another for profit company that does that. I really don't think you can.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 05, 2012, 12:29:23 AM
Looking at the bracket makes me wonder a few things. How did BoA beat Wal*Mart? How did Target even make the list? Is there really no sympathy for the Post Office? It's dying and still comes 6 days a week (for now).
Yeah, I don't understand Target being on the list either, unless there's some PR snafu I'm not aware of. As for the Post Office, I used to criticize them a lot for their slow delivery time, but in my experience that has really seemed to improve over the last few years. I've had quite a few packages come ahead of schedule, and I've actually had less of a hassle sending packages through them than my local UPS store. They're by no means the best delivery option, but "one of the worst companies in America?" I really don't see that.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 05, 2012, 12:33:10 AM
It really didn't matter who won, being nominated alone is shameful enough. Moving up the tiers is only increases the shame. You're missing the forest for the trees. If you only focus on the absolute worse company year on year, it would be a list of the same company year after year after year. This is a list of shame. The order is largely irrelevant, you don't want to be on this list at all. What you are asking for is an analysis of the worse company in America when I gave you a poll of the worse companies in America.
I could have told you BoA has done the world the most damage in monetary terms and suffering. I don't need a poll to tell me that, everybody already knows it and have acted accordingly by pulling their accounts.
Fine, it's a series of images electronically assembled to illustrate why the current DLC model is a determent to the end user. Pedantic enough for you? Do I have to explain this series of images to you again with Maden arrows and mathematical formule?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 05, 2012, 12:45:04 AM
It really didn't matter who won, being nominated alone is shameful enough. Moving up the tiers is only increases the shame. You're missing the forest for the trees. If you only focus on the absolute worse company year on year, it would be a list of the same company year after year after year. This is a list of shame. The order is largely irrelevant, you don't want to be on this list at all. What you are asking for is an analysis of the worse company in America when I gave you a poll of the worse companies in America.
We get that being on the list is already shameful. That's why we're questioning certain company's appearances on the list. I only asked how BoA beat Wal*Mart, what with the slave labor and all.
Fine, it's a series of images electronically assembled to illustrate why the current DLC model is a determent to the end user. Pedantic enough for you? Do I have to explain this series of images to you again with Maden arrows and mathematical formule?
Allow me to rephrase: It's a gross exaggeration that doesn't accurately represent the situation that it's trying to depict. Is that clear enough for you?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 05, 2012, 01:16:02 AM
Target could be on the list because they openly support anti-gay politicians. There was a boycott of Target in 2010 after they made large contributions (about $150K) to a anti-gay Minnesota politician.
I am not shocked Bank of America is ranked higher than Walmart. BOA helped wreck the world economy, illegally kick people out of their homes (because BOA no longer owned the the houses they were foreclosing on), they actually locked customers in one of their branches in Santa Cruz last fall when they tried to close their accounts (this was during the mass exodus when hundreds of thousands of people closed their bank accounts and move their money to credit unions), they tried to charge $5 a month to people with debit accounts until a massive petition (and lots of media coverage) shamed them into not doing it, they were caught price-fixing ATM fees along with 2 other banks and 2 major credit card companies, they laid off 30K employees while still paying their CEO $7.5 million. Yeah, there is plenty of reason to hate them.
EA should not even be on the list.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 06, 2012, 02:20:37 PM
Back in my old AnimeOnDVD.com days, site director Chris Beveridge had a great line in response to all the people on his site constantly complaining about various facets of the industry, and I think it's equally applicable here (I'll substitute "video games" for "anime"):
"[Video Games are] not a right. [They are] a privilege, a consumer product, art, work for hire, a luxury, a hobby, entertainment."
He still has that line, only now on the Fandom Post instead. :)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 06, 2012, 02:29:36 PM
Back in my old AnimeOnDVD.com days, site director Chris Beveridge had a great line in response to all the people on his site constantly complaining about various facets of the industry, and I think it's equally applicable here (I'll substitute "video games" for "anime"):
"[Video Games are] not a right. [They are] a privilege, a consumer product, art, work for hire, a luxury, a hobby, entertainment."
He still has that line, only now on the Fandom Post instead. :)
Yep. I've been on that site for quite some time, but it'll always be AnimeOnDVD.com to me. "Fandom Post" is so generic by comparison.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 06, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
Back in my old AnimeOnDVD.com days, site director Chris Beveridge had a great line in response to all the people on his site constantly complaining about various facets of the industry, and I think it's equally applicable here (I'll substitute "video games" for "anime"):
"[Video Games are] not a right. [They are] a privilege, a consumer product, art, work for hire, a luxury, a hobby, entertainment."
He still has that line, only now on the Fandom Post instead. :)
Yep. I've been on that site for quite some time, but it'll always be AnimeOnDVD.com to me. "Fandom Post" is so generic by comparison.
It was AOD to me when it was Mania. So yeah, I feel the same way.
These arguments keep circling back to the same thing: some people view a game purchase as owning the disc and everything on it. Others, including the EULA that everyone agrees to, states that when you purchase a game, you purchase a license to it similar to purchasing a license to Windows (can't install windows on multiple computers without buying multiple licenses). There will never be common ground between the two sides since the beliefs are completely different.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 06, 2012, 03:22:10 PM
Target could be on the list because they openly support anti-gay politicians. There was a boycott of Target in 2010 after they made large contributions (about $150K) to a anti-gay Minnesota politician.
I am not shocked Bank of America is ranked higher than Walmart. BOA helped wreck the world economy, illegally kick people out of their homes (because BOA no longer owned the the houses they were foreclosing on), they actually locked customers in one of their branches in Santa Cruz last fall when they tried to close their accounts (this was during the mass exodus when hundreds of thousands of people closed their bank accounts and move their money to credit unions), they tried to charge $5 a month to people with debit accounts until a massive petition (and lots of media coverage) shamed them into not doing it, they were caught price-fixing ATM fees along with 2 other banks and 2 major credit card companies, they laid off 30K employees while still paying their CEO $7.5 million. Yeah, there is plenty of reason to hate them.
EA should not even be on the list.
Had to correct this, Target gave a contribution to a pro-business organization that in turn donated to a pro-business politicians who happened to be anti-gay, there is a big difference. Target has a pro-business policy in regards to donations, just happened this particular organization donated to a candidate who was anti-gay. When you smear an organization at least try to have your facts straight. Target still has some of the best anti-discrimination policies around.
Anyway that is getting really off topic. EA is far from being one of the worse businesses in America.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 06, 2012, 03:33:59 PM
Nice way to spin things GP. They have donated money to multiple anti-gay politicians and PAC's that support these politicians. Here is a good article pointing out all of the anti-gay politicians and groups Target has given money to: http://www.theawl.com/2010/12/the-anti-gay-donations-that-target-apologized-for-they-never-stopped
I am not smearing an organization, just stating facts. There are worse companies around in terms of gay rights though, Chick-Fil-A is a prime example.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 06, 2012, 05:06:32 PM
I think what GP is saying is that yes they gave money to politicians who were anti-gay, but being anti-gay wasn't the reason for it. They gave the money because those politicians were pro-business. The fact some of them were also anti-gay was an unrelated coincidence.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 06, 2012, 05:17:30 PM
Even after the Target CEO apologized for it (after the massive protests), they continued donating to those same politicians. Maybe they didn't donate because they were anti-gay, but the sheer number of them makes it odd.
On the flipside, EA is standing up for gay rights and basically giving a big FU to the fans who wrote letters complaining about the Mass Effect games letting you have gay relationships.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 06, 2012, 07:03:34 PM
The funny thing I've noticed about the relationships is the only options are straight and lesbian relationships. There is no option for a male Shepard to form a relationship with any male character. The reason Lesbian relationships are allowed is because its no secret that the majority of gamers are heterosexual males, and heterosexual males find lesbian relationships appealing. That's why its in the game. Its not being done to cater to the gay community, because if that were the case then why is there no option for male/male relationships?
Okay, keep in mind I haven't played Mass Effect 3 yet, but I just looked and apparently there is a male romance option. Nevertheless, this was absent from the first two mass effect games. Its good they finally added that in, but why didn't they do it in the first two games? The option for Lesbian relationships was there from day one.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 06, 2012, 08:01:28 PM
As someone who's actually worked at Target's corporate HQ, I can say that they're not anti-gay at all. There's an LGBT networking club there. They're very proud of it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ShyGuy on April 07, 2012, 01:07:40 AM
What does this have to do with how much RAM the PS4 will have?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 07, 2012, 01:12:53 AM
Nothing. You won't get a straight answer until it comes out.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Sarail on April 07, 2012, 11:33:15 AM
Looking at the bracket makes me wonder a few things. How did BoA beat Wal*Mart? How did Target even make the list? Is there really no sympathy for the Post Office? It's dying and still comes 6 days a week (for now).
If the post office is dying, then what will happen to FedEx, UPS, etc.? Packaged goods are still useful. How else will we get our online orders shipped to us?
And most companies still use paper-billing because it's safer than sending it to an email account. Email can get hacked, online accounts can be broken into, etc.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 08, 2012, 11:42:23 PM
As someone who's actually worked at Target's corporate HQ, I can say that they're not anti-gay at all. There's an LGBT networking club there. They're very proud of it.
Ok? Good for them.
I still don't get why you have to feel "proud" to be gay, bi, etc. You don't see me going around saying I'm "proud" to be straight. What does pride have to do with it?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 08, 2012, 11:44:10 PM
Target could be on the list because they openly support anti-gay politicians. There was a boycott of Target in 2010 after they made large contributions (about $150K) to a anti-gay Minnesota politician.
I am not shocked Bank of America is ranked higher than Walmart. BOA helped wreck the world economy, illegally kick people out of their homes (because BOA no longer owned the the houses they were foreclosing on), they actually locked customers in one of their branches in Santa Cruz last fall when they tried to close their accounts (this was during the mass exodus when hundreds of thousands of people closed their bank accounts and move their money to credit unions), they tried to charge $5 a month to people with debit accounts until a massive petition (and lots of media coverage) shamed them into not doing it, they were caught price-fixing ATM fees along with 2 other banks and 2 major credit card companies, they laid off 30K employees while still paying their CEO $7.5 million. Yeah, there is plenty of reason to hate them.
EA should not even be on the list.
Had to correct this, Target gave a contribution to a pro-business organization that in turn donated to a pro-business politicians who happened to be anti-gay, there is a big difference. Target has a pro-business policy in regards to donations, just happened this particular organization donated to a candidate who was anti-gay. When you smear an organization at least try to have your facts straight. Target still has some of the best anti-discrimination policies around.
Looking at the bracket makes me wonder a few things. How did BoA beat Wal*Mart? How did Target even make the list? Is there really no sympathy for the Post Office? It's dying and still comes 6 days a week (for now).
If the post office is dying, then what will happen to FedEx, UPS, etc.? Packaged goods are still useful. How else will we get our online orders shipped to us?
And most companies still use paper-billing because it's safer than sending it to an email account. Email can get hacked, online accounts can be broken into, etc.
Actually more companies (especially larger ones) are automating the billing process. Anyway, what's hurting the post office is that almost no one sends letters anymore. That means fewer and fewer people are paying for postage stamps, yet the mail still comes 6 days a week. Other delivery companies will be fine (and are doing quite well), since they don't have to deal with that aspect.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 09, 2012, 08:43:28 PM
The post office is hurting because their only source of revenue are stamps. They don't charge for mail service (well, standard. You can pay more for express shipping) and they don't get funding from taxpayers.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 09, 2012, 10:14:00 PM
Well, stamps is how they charge for mail service.
Title: PS4 aka "Orbis" on par with Current Gen...
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 10, 2012, 01:06:17 AM
This ought to be fun :D
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26662-orbis-specs-get-detailed (http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26662-orbis-specs-get-detailed) "Orbis" is the code name for PS4 for those that don't remember or didn't know.
Quote
Sources are now spilling the beans on exactly what we can expect from Orbis, or the PlayStation 4, when it is arrives. For the most part it is about what we already knew, with no real surprises; and it looks to be a very smart decision for AMD.
If the tech specs are correct, the latest info has the PS4 showing the unit being built from what amounts to off-the-self parts. The unit will use the AMD A8-3850 APU and Radeon 7670 GPU. The AP-3850 APU is said to clock in at 2.9GHz and it will be a quad core chip, while the HD 7670 which will offer 1GB of RAM and while we have heard rumors of a projected clock speed, we would wait till we are closer to release before we predict what this will actually be.
As we told you previously, this selection does take back from the PC side, but there still a lot more questions than answers. Our contacts in the development community seem divided on what the box can actually deliver in terms of performance. According to one developer, “…we really don’t know how well the unit can perform, but so far it has been on par with the current generation.”
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 10, 2012, 01:17:20 AM
Well, the thing with the post office is...it has to run. But, what you are getting for the cost just isn't worth it.
Letters are cheaper, easier and faster to send by E-mail. Why wait for your message to get to your family when the sending a letter is slower. And with attachments you can even send large documents that could get damaged in the process, or picture files and such.
Of course there will always be need to send larger packages or important documents that must be signed in ink...but the other deliver services seem to be capturing that market better. By either sending the mail faster. Providing better services for businesses, being cheaper...or having better hours. Personally, I am of the opinion we should get rid of the governmental postal service and just let private companies handle it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 10, 2012, 02:54:38 AM
The post office is hurting because their only source of revenue are stamps. They don't charge for mail service
That's covered by the stamps. Thats the whole entire point of buying stamps (unless you're a collector). If you think they don't charge for mail service just try mailing something without the appropriate postage and see how far that gets you.
That's like saying Airlines don't charge you to fly you around the world, and they only make money selling plane tickets. Well, no ****.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 10, 2012, 02:57:05 AM
You do realise that the USPS is run as a quasi private company, but mandated to deliver to every address no matter how far, 6 days a week on a nonprofit basis. This is something that a private company can't do. The delivery companies currently get away with their large coverage holes by offloading on the USPS. Cost of post would skyrocket as profit motive, duplicate infrastructure, coverage holes would mean they will only cover the "profitable" areas.
It has run completely independent of tax payers money since 1982 when it accepted it's last subsidy. It traces it's roots to the Constitution and the second congress. It would be unbelievably fool hardy to disassemble such an institution over nothing else but the ideology that "Private" can do better when it has been proven time and it again it is not true.
The USPS budget problem is largely artificial. No other government agency has been kneecapped (http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/congresss_war_on_the_post_office/) with a shotgun.
Quote
This death hug was part of the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act, which was passed (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40983.pdf) on a voice vote by a lame duck Republican Congress in 2006. As I’ve reported (http://www.alternet.org/story/152451/3_big_lies_at_the_heart_of_republican_attacks_on_the_post_office), the mandate required the Postal Service, over 10 years, to pre-fund healthcare benefits for the next 75. This unique burden costs USPS $5.5 billion a year. The new law also restricted the Postal Service’s ability to raise postage rates, or to provide “nonpostal services” that, in an e-diversion era, could be key to its future. American Postal Workers Union president Cliff Guffey says the bill was designed “by those people who hate government … to destroy the Postal Service. And that’s what they did.”
I am not American and I know more about your post office than you do without resorting to talking points. It took 5 minutes of research to demolish your "opinion".
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 10, 2012, 03:06:48 AM
I think the post office should just be privatized. You don't hear about UPS or Fed Ex struggling the way the USPS does. If one of the private carriers needs to make a change to keep themselves afloat they can just do it, and they don't need to wait on an act of congress for it to happen.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 10, 2012, 09:23:45 AM
I think the post office should just be privatized. You don't hear about UPS or Fed Ex struggling the way the USPS does. If one of the private carriers needs to make a change to keep themselves afloat they can just do it, and they don't need to wait on an act of congress for it to happen.
Did you just not read oohhboy's post right above you, where he explained exactly why what you said there makes no sense?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ShyGuy on April 10, 2012, 09:29:45 AM
How about you don't stick your nose into our affairs? We're not telling NZ how to do things.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 10, 2012, 09:42:33 AM
Yeah, it's not like our government is making New Zealand prosecute people because our entertainment industry wants them to.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Crimm on April 10, 2012, 09:55:11 AM
LET'S GET BACK TO THE TOPIC
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 10, 2012, 10:02:29 AM
Crimm has become the serious, solemn voice of reason. That's more than a little depressing.
So yeah, PS4. How many US dollars do you think we're talking here?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Crimm on April 10, 2012, 01:16:35 PM
Crimm has become the serious, solemn voice of reason. That's more than a little depressing.
So yeah, PS4. How many US dollars do you think we're talking here?
Well to keep up with the exchange rate change: 599 US Dollars converted to Yen at the launch of the PS3 is now 797 US Dollars worth of Yen...so
799 US DOLLARS
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 10, 2012, 02:25:56 PM
You're thinking too small here. The PS3 was the FUTURE! The PS4 is the future's FUTURE! Graphics will be 5D! Say hello to a 3rd mortgage on your home, maybe fourth. Seven hundred and ninety nine US dollars won't even be the half of it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 10, 2012, 03:31:00 PM
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26662-orbis-specs-get-detailed (http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26662-orbis-specs-get-detailed) "Orbis" is the code name for PS4 for those that don't remember or didn't know.
Quote
Sources are now spilling the beans on exactly what we can expect from Orbis, or the PlayStation 4, when it is arrives. For the most part it is about what we already knew, with no real surprises; and it looks to be a very smart decision for AMD.
If the tech specs are correct, the latest info has the PS4 showing the unit being built from what amounts to off-the-self parts. The unit will use the AMD A8-3850 APU and Radeon 7670 GPU. The AP-3850 APU is said to clock in at 2.9GHz and it will be a quad core chip, while the HD 7670 which will offer 1GB of RAM and while we have heard rumors of a projected clock speed, we would wait till we are closer to release before we predict what this will actually be.
As we told you previously, this selection does take back from the PC side, but there still a lot more questions than answers. Our contacts in the development community seem divided on what the box can actually deliver in terms of performance. According to one developer, “…we really don’t know how well the unit can perform, but so far it has been on par with the current generation.”
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 10, 2012, 04:31:32 PM
It sounds like the PS4 will be about on-par with the current generation of PCs. Considering what they are capable of, I don't really see that being a problem. Besides, it was unlikely that the next generation Playstation was going to be that far ahead of modern PCs anyway, especially after how much money Sony lost on the Cell.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 10, 2012, 06:08:13 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want my PS4 to be a super-behemoth costing $600 at launch. I'm not even joking around. I use it for way more than games.
If Sony won't go big, then who will?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 10, 2012, 06:35:21 PM
I'm serious, because BnM posted a rumor about it supposed to be having a 16 core processor.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 11, 2012, 01:55:39 AM
Actually, if Microsoft is doing to wait another year...and launch in 2014...I can see MS going big. Why not? MS is trying to capture the living room...they need a set top box that could be a game system, DVR, media player, and whatnot. The next xbox could be Microsofts way of making a MS TV.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on April 11, 2012, 06:48:12 PM
I'm serious, because BnM posted a rumor about it supposed to be having a 16 core processor.
So if only MS goes big are developers really going to make games for this single system in the hopes it explodes like it never did before or are they going to focus their efforts on the other two consoles who have closer specs?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Stogi on April 11, 2012, 11:01:17 PM
That wouldn't matter because MS could support the games. It's like PC. Any graphic specs you throw at the PC, it will support it. So whoever goes high will be covered.
But, if your console costs to much, then you'll lose market share. Market share might not matter with today's parties but they do matter to you.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: SixthAngel on April 11, 2012, 11:59:42 PM
That wouldn't matter because MS could support the games. It's like PC. Any graphic specs you throw at the PC, it will support it. So whoever goes high will be covered.
But, if your console costs to much, then you'll lose market share. Market share might not matter with today's parties but they do matter to you.
But who is going to buy an expensive console if the games aren't even made to use the power?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 12, 2012, 12:11:46 AM
The PS3 sold decently enough the first few years even though it was $600 and most games looked the same (or even worse) than their equivalents on the 360. The problem there is Sony's first party lineup has been excellent this generation, and Microsoft's is awful. To get exclusives that show off the hardware they'd have to resort to moneyhats, which would further cost them money, so it's not that attractive of an option.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 12, 2012, 02:20:12 PM
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26662-orbis-specs-get-detailed (http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26662-orbis-specs-get-detailed) "Orbis" is the code name for PS4 for those that don't remember or didn't know.
Quote
Sources are now spilling the beans on exactly what we can expect from Orbis, or the PlayStation 4, when it is arrives. For the most part it is about what we already knew, with no real surprises; and it looks to be a very smart decision for AMD.
If the tech specs are correct, the latest info has the PS4 showing the unit being built from what amounts to off-the-self parts. The unit will use the AMD A8-3850 APU and Radeon 7670 GPU. The AP-3850 APU is said to clock in at 2.9GHz and it will be a quad core chip, while the HD 7670 which will offer 1GB of RAM and while we have heard rumors of a projected clock speed, we would wait till we are closer to release before we predict what this will actually be.
As we told you previously, this selection does take back from the PC side, but there still a lot more questions than answers. Our contacts in the development community seem divided on what the box can actually deliver in terms of performance. According to one developer, “…we really don’t know how well the unit can perform, but so far it has been on par with the current generation.”
I love how you quoted yourself because the stupid discussion on who's the worst company in America overshadowed an actual PS4 rumor in the PS4 rumor thread. :)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 12, 2012, 02:23:19 PM
It sounds like the PS4 will be about on-par with the current generation of PCs. Considering what they are capable of, I don't really see that being a problem. Besides, it was unlikely that the next generation Playstation was going to be that far ahead of modern PCs anyway, especially after how much money Sony lost on the Cell.
If the PS4 will be as good as current pcs, then in 2013 when it launches, it'll be 2-3 CPU/GPU generations behind.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 15, 2012, 05:49:54 PM
It sounds like the PS4 will be about on-par with the current generation of PCs. Considering what they are capable of, I don't really see that being a problem. Besides, it was unlikely that the next generation Playstation was going to be that far ahead of modern PCs anyway, especially after how much money Sony lost on the Cell.
If the PS4 will be as good as current pcs, then in 2013 when it launches, it'll be 2-3 CPU/GPU generations behind.
And how is that surprising or bad? Game consoles have always been less powerful than PC's. Console manufacturers use a base set of specs and keep it that way throughout the console's lifecycle. This makes it easier for developers to make games, since they won't have to constantly update their games for the newest hardware.
Also, tablets, handhelds, and other mobile devices are less powerful than PC's too, yet no one complains about that.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 16, 2012, 12:12:15 PM
It sounds like the PS4 will be about on-par with the current generation of PCs. Considering what they are capable of, I don't really see that being a problem. Besides, it was unlikely that the next generation Playstation was going to be that far ahead of modern PCs anyway, especially after how much money Sony lost on the Cell.
If the PS4 will be as good as current pcs, then in 2013 when it launches, it'll be 2-3 CPU/GPU generations behind.
And how is that surprising or bad? Game consoles have always been less powerful than PC's. Console manufacturers use a base set of specs and keep it that way throughout the console's lifecycle. This makes it easier for developers to make games, since they won't have to constantly update their games for the newest hardware.
Also, tablets, handhelds, and other mobile devices are less powerful than PC's too, yet no one complains about that.
I didn't say it was bad. It's the way things go. I was just stating a fact, although I think it's more likely to be on par with last year's PC specs. Even if they use the 7000 radeons as the base, they won't use the 7970, which is the most powerful and costs $550 at the moment. Even in two years, the same or equivalent card in the 8000 or 9000 series will be no less than $300 most likely. So while it will be on par with midrange graphics cards today, those midrange cards, in two years, will be the budget cards($90-150). Bringing up tablets and other mobile devices, those are updated 1-2 times a year with better specs, so it is not a good comparison. And most people who buy tablets don't care about the power. They care about if it will update their twitter feeds and facebook accounts and play Angry Birds and how long the battery will last.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 16, 2012, 01:19:50 PM
Like he said, nobody asks a tablet to do anything too taxing. And most developers know how to optimize whatever app they make to the specs of a tablet. Yeah, it's cool to have a tablet with all the bells and whistles, but you gotta ask yourself at the end of the day what it's doing with all those specs.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 16, 2012, 07:27:24 PM
Like he said, nobody asks a tablet to do anything too taxing. And most developers know how to optimize whatever app they make to the specs of a tablet. Yeah, it's cool to have a tablet with all the bells and whistles, but you gotta ask yourself at the end of the day what it's doing with all those specs.
Infinity Blade II looks better than any game on the Wii and holds up well against many PS360 games on the ipad.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on April 16, 2012, 09:11:52 PM
Good point, but that's the pinnacle of optimizing software to fit hardware restrictions.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Oblivion on April 16, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
Like he said, nobody asks a tablet to do anything too taxing. And most developers know how to optimize whatever app they make to the specs of a tablet. Yeah, it's cool to have a tablet with all the bells and whistles, but you gotta ask yourself at the end of the day what it's doing with all those specs.
Infinity Blade II looks better than any game on the Wii and holds up well against many PS360 games on the ipad.
Better resolution does not equal better textures, polygon, and other graphics.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 18, 2012, 09:28:51 PM
Like he said, nobody asks a tablet to do anything too taxing. And most developers know how to optimize whatever app they make to the specs of a tablet. Yeah, it's cool to have a tablet with all the bells and whistles, but you gotta ask yourself at the end of the day what it's doing with all those specs.
Infinity Blade II looks better than any game on the Wii and holds up well against many PS360 games on the ipad.
Better resolution does not equal better textures, polygon, and other graphics.
Infinity Blade 1 and 2 have all of those things, and they use the Unreal 3 Engine, the same engine that powers a majority of PS3/Xbox 360 games.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 18, 2012, 09:40:42 PM
the same engine that powers a majority of PS3/Xbox 360 games.
Slight exaggeration, but it probably is the most used engine (about 60 retail and XBLA arcade games use it).
You mean 60% right? Because there are a lot more than 60 games that use the Unreal Engine 3.
No there isn't. It's a little higher than 60, but less than 80. That is still quite a large number though, higher than any other engine this gen
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 20, 2012, 02:22:13 AM
It may not be the majority of modern retail games that use Unreal engine (or some variant), but it could very well be a majority of the most popular games. Take the COD series, for example. Each year the latest COD game breaks sales records set by the COD before it, but if you look at the engine it uses it is based off a fork of Unreal engine.
A console's total software library will consist of hundreds of games, but in the end there's only maybe 100 or so of that which sell in significant amounts and anyone cares about. Maybe only 60-80 games use Unreal, but how many of those are within the top 100 games? There's a **** load of games like Elf Bowling and stuff like that which I'm sure don't use Unreal, but do these games matter? Nobody cares about shovelware games. They may make up the majority of games period, but they do not make up the majority of games which anyone gives a crap about.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 20, 2012, 02:53:23 AM
the same engine that powers a majority of PS3/Xbox 360 games.
Slight exaggeration, but it probably is the most used engine (about 60 retail and XBLA arcade games use it).
You mean 60% right? Because there are a lot more than 60 games that use the Unreal Engine 3.
No there isn't. It's a little higher than 60, but less than 80. That is still quite a large number though, higher than any other engine this gen
I'd love to see your source to back up those numbers.
EDIT: What's with the + / - numbers under my avatar?
Here is a good source of them (I tried Epic Game's website, but they only list some of the Unreal Engine games): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_3
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 20, 2012, 03:01:20 AM
That's our karma system. Good posts get you pluses, bad ones get you minuses.
To be more accurate, when fellow posters decide that your opinion doesn't jive with their own, they give you minuses. When you tow the company line and tell people what they want to hear, you get pluses. Seriously, it's not worth the effort trying to care about the system, so just ignore it when possible.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 20, 2012, 03:04:43 AM
I've learned from experience that if you say something that goes against the general opinion, you will get lots of smites (like when I said I supported the PS3 hackers getting in trouble for it). Not always true, but sometimes. You will be able to applaud/smite others once you have 1,000 posts.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 20, 2012, 04:59:41 AM
Honestly, I think some people just throw smites out of spite towards a person and they'll use any post they find by that person to do it. It has nothing to do with the post itself, and the smiter may even agree with it. They just hate the target and want to do this petty pathetic thing to them for whatever reason.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Oblivion on April 20, 2012, 10:10:17 AM
What's even more pathetic is complaining about it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 20, 2012, 12:40:25 PM
I throw them out to watch the numbers grow. I find it funny when I hit applaud for Chozo as it actually at one point ended up adding to his minus. I think it's different now, but I thought it was funny. Plus, since two negatives equal a positive, Chozo is actually at a +29 at this point. :)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 20, 2012, 03:20:30 PM
What's even more pathetic is complaining about it.
+1
-1
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 21, 2012, 01:07:06 AM
This thread got off-topic quickly.
*dowses all the fanboys with water*
Now listen here, you. We need to get this here thread back on track. Now hop to it lads!
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under derailment (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 21, 2012, 01:26:27 AM
Quote
"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" --Kaz Hirai, CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment
Has Sony learned from this or are we expecting PS4 to be business as usual? It's anti-used game stance isn't going to win them any customers. Going AMD means Bulldozer and it's attendent shortcomings. Vita shows Sony (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/168793/PS_Vita_sales_sink_to_record_low_as_software_drought_continues_in_Japan.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+News%29) has no clue or game.
Smit Tendoboy1984 for bad postings.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Adrock on April 21, 2012, 01:42:55 AM
How old is that quote? Regardless, it's pretty obvious he's not a game designer. "What do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" What the? Seriously? It's called creativity. It's not about how powerful the hardware is; it's how one uses the hardware to create a compelling experience.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 21, 2012, 02:01:54 AM
How old is that quote? Regardless, it's pretty obvious he's not a game designer. "What do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" What the? Seriously? It's called creativity. It's not about how powerful the hardware is; it's how one uses the hardware to create a compelling experience.
Ken Kutaragi wasn't a game designer either (neither is anyone at Microsoft). Ken Kutaragi created the PlayStation to push video game technology forward, and Sony wanted to get back at Nintendo for cutting them out of the SNES CD deal.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on April 21, 2012, 02:26:32 AM
It's from 2009.
The hardware might have changed, but the mentality behind it remains the same. PSV is literally just PSP2 and is on track for failure unless there is a massive turn around on a scale greater than the 3DS. They still have no idea how lucky they got with PS1 and PS2.
Neither Ken Kutaragi or Sony created the Playstation. Nintendo did. The technology even back in the day was limited. Sony had a product fell on their lap and they sold it. It was nothing to do with pushing technology.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 21, 2012, 03:14:34 AM
The Vita is a really odd culmination of concepts. Having spent some time over the last few days playing my new one, it's really head-scratching the sheer number of "gimmies" that Sony still hasn't dealt with with that system. For instance, we're now close to 2 months since launch, and seemingly the vast majority of PSP/PS1 digital games (certainly most of mine) still have to be downloaded on a PS3 and transferred over to a Vita. Despite being able to play these titles, the Vita can't download them on its own. To give you an idea of how ridiculous this can get, I can't even download my Angry Birds Mini to my Vita, which you would think might have been a priority for Sony given that...oh I don't know...it's probably easily the most popular Mini on the Playstation Store?! It's not like it's a 3rd party issue, either, as I can't download my 1st party Sony PSP titles like Resistance Retribution either.
There are all sorts of weird interface issues as well, such as the odd way that the system does patches and DLC installs: you download patches by tapping an icon on each game's Live Area to check for updates, and if you download one you have to tap that "update" button again to install the patches. With DLC, though, you have to actually launch the game to install any downloaded DLC, and nothing on the Vita tells you that you need to do that. There's also no sorting option on the home screen to allow you to easily place your icons. You have to drag, drop, and swap all the icons into the places you want, which I can see being an incredible annoyance with all the PSP games I have.
The Vita is an amazing handheld with a better software lineup right now than I think a lot of people are willing to give it credit for. Despite its outer appearance and similarities in software and marketing approach, I don't think calling it a "PSP 2" is altogether fair as the huge emphasis on touch interface and online, as well as the completely new OS, almost make the device a totally different experience (it's probably more akin to an iPad than the PSP in that way). Still, yeah I really have to wonder if Sony quite knew where they were going with this device because there's so much about it that they haven't really followed through on yet.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 21, 2012, 03:16:42 AM
Ken Kutaragi left (or fled or whatever) Sony soon after the PS3 launched. The PS4 will be Sony's first console without Kutaragi and his input, but we can already see from the Vita that whoever is now pulling the strings over at Sony seems to have the same mentality that power is more important than affordability.
That quote from Kaz Hirai from 2009 (which was only 3 years ago) is consistent with what we are seeing from the Vita, so it seems not at all unlikely that the PS4 will be a similarly powerful and expensive piece of hardware which will struggle to see adoption by both consumers and developers alike until price drops take effect.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 21, 2012, 03:22:56 AM
There are all sorts of weird interface issues as well, such as the odd way that the system does patches and DLC installs: you download patches by tapping an icon on each game's Live Area to check for updates, and if you download one you have to tap that "update" button again to install the patches. With DLC, though, you have to actually launch the game to install any downloaded DLC, and nothing on the Vita tells you that you need to do that. There's also no sorting option on the home screen to allow you to easily place your icons. You have to drag, drop, and swap all the icons into the places you want, which I can see being an incredible annoyance with all the PSP games I have.
This is kinda funny, considering only a day ago you said:
From a sheer hardware standpoint, I'm really liking the Vita. The OS feels pretty user-friendly, and a lot of the obnoxious bugs reported at launch seem to have been fixed. For instance, the issue where it want you to download a firmware update before you could link your PSN account has been fixed. Like the PSP, the Vita also came with a handy startup guide, so figuring out how to get started was easy. The device's online functionality also seems waaay faster than the PS3's, perplexingly. It downloads updates much faster, and it seems to transfer data much faster as well.
These two posts are only a day apart and are from the same person, yet they are almost polar opposite.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Enner on April 21, 2012, 03:31:53 AM
These two posts are only a day apart and are from the same person, yet they are almost polar opposite.
Polar opposite is pushing it. It reads more that broodwars has now encountered first-hand the OS foibles that have kin on the Playstation 3 and the Playstation Portable.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on April 21, 2012, 03:36:09 AM
These two posts are only a day apart and are from the same person, yet they are almost polar opposite.
It's the difference between first impressions from a few hours of experimenting and a dozen or so hours of playing games on it. I still really like that OS, actually. When everything is in its proper place, it's extremely fast and easy to get to the things you need, do what you need to do, and get out again. Being icon and App-based, it's also more user-friendly than the XMB system was, though I could have used some text on some of the helper buttons and some functions really need to be consolidated (such as there being separate Apps for your Friends List, your Trophies, Party Chat, and Text Messages). And there's something to be said for the satisfaction of closing programs by "flicking" them closed as if you were pulling a Post-It Note off.
My basic problem with the OS is a lack of in-OS explanation for certain key functions and the irritation of arranging the icons. It's still a good OS, though. If you like navigating an Android or iPhone OS, it'll probably be very familiar to you. Sony really just needs to tighten it up, and it'll be fine.
The PS Store issues, though, with much if not most PSP and PS1 software requiring a PS3 to download to the Vita is ridiculous. I have a PS3 so it doesn't prevent me from redownloading my old PSP games, but it's an annoying extra step. I'm actually starting to wonder if the whole reason Sony still hasn't fixed this problem is that they like the idea of forcing users to own a PS3 to get the full usage of their old PSP/PS1 titles. I remember PS1 functionality was one of the very first things Sony said they would patch in firmware. 4 months after the Japanese launch, though, it still hasn't happened.
It's stuff like that Sony really needs to fix right now because they're irritating the very people who actually ARE paying them money right now to play their Vita, and it's really indicative of the lack of focus Sony is exhibiting with this device.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 21, 2012, 03:41:33 AM
You need a PS3 to download PSP & PS1 games on the Vita? So the millions of people who don't have PS3's are left out?
Yep, though apparently PS1 games aren't transferable at all at the moment. Many PSP games require a PS3 to install on a Vita (such as Valkyria Chronicles 2 and its DLC, which I just transferred over but aren't in the store or downloadable on Vita), though looking at the grand unofficial list fewer than I thought. When you go to your download list, these games show up as "Can't be downloaded to a Vita" where the "download" button is usually located when viewed on a Vita. And they don't appear in the Vita version of the PS Store at all as games that can be purchased. To play these games, you HAVE to download them first to your PS3, leave them on the XMB in "bubble" form, hook your Vita up to your PS3 through its USB power cable, and then use the Vita to transfer the files through its content management program.
Oh yeah, and while you're transferring these files, the Vita is not drawing power from the PS3 so you could conceivably run out of battery power doing this. I've only transferred a few files at a time and I keep my Vita hooked up to its charger at nearly all times so I haven't run into that problem yet, but it's truly a brilliant situation Sony's created here.
EDIT: OK, it seems I need to make a major correction here, and it actually makes the situation worse. Starting tomorrow, I'm going on vacation with my family for a week, so I thought while I was still up and not doing much that I would transfer my Resistance Retribution PSP game over to my Vita instead of Dissidia 012. After all, I'd already transferred my original save for the game over yesterday. I thought Dissidia was one of the locked games as well, but apparently you can download that from the store. Apparently, that's not going to happen, because Resistance (one of the games you can't download to the Vita) also can't be transferred through the content manager at the moment. I don't know if the PS1 games can, as I don't have any in "bubble" form at the moment. So apparently, if you can't download them to your Vita natively, it doesn't look like you can transfer them either.
Reading up on the issue, it does look like there are games that you can only transfer to your Vita through a PS3, but my "locked" games do not seem to be on the extended list (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316058) as compatible games. If Sony has any sense, they're making those remaining "locked" games work on Vita, especially the 1st party stuff like Resistance.
So despite Sony's assurances that "all your old PSP digital software will be playable from Day 1 on Vita", that is not the case at all. You can't even work around the Vita's stubborn download refusals. Oh joy. Damn, I really wanted to play Resistance Retribution on vacation now that I can play it with the right analog stick as the camera... :(
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 21, 2012, 05:44:20 AM
You need a PS3 to download PSP & PS1 games on the Vita? So the millions of people who don't have PS3's are left out?
Yep, though apparently PS1 games aren't transferable at all at the moment. Many PSP games require a PS3 to install on a Vita (such as Valkyria Chronicles 2 and its DLC, which I just transferred over but aren't in the store or downloadable on Vita), though looking at the grand unofficial list fewer than I thought. When you go to your download list, these games show up as "Can't be downloaded to a Vita" where the "download" button is usually located when viewed on a Vita. And they don't appear in the Vita version of the PS Store at all as games that can be purchased. To play these games, you HAVE to download them first to your PS3, leave them on the XMB in "bubble" form, hook your Vita up to your PS3 through its USB power cable, and then use the Vita to transfer the files through its content management program.
Oh yeah, and while you're transferring these files, the Vita is not drawing power from the PS3 so you could conceivably run out of battery power doing this. I've only transferred a few files at a time and I keep my Vita hooked up to its charger at nearly all times so I haven't run into that problem yet, but it's truly a brilliant situation Sony's created here.
EDIT: OK, it seems I need to make a major correction here, and it actually makes the situation worse. Starting tomorrow, I'm going on vacation with my family for a week, so I thought while I was still up and not doing much that I would transfer my Resistance Retribution PSP game over to my Vita instead of Dissidia 012. After all, I'd already transferred my original save for the game over yesterday. I thought Dissidia was one of the locked games as well, but apparently you can download that from the store. Apparently, that's not going to happen, because Resistance (one of the games you can't download to the Vita) also can't be transferred through the content manager at the moment. I don't know if the PS1 games can, as I don't have any in "bubble" form at the moment. So apparently, if you can't download them to your Vita natively, it doesn't look like you can transfer them either.
Reading up on the issue, it does look like there are games that you can only transfer to your Vita through a PS3, but my "locked" games do not seem to be on the extended list (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316058) as compatible games. If Sony has any sense, they're making those remaining "locked" games work on Vita, especially the 1st party stuff like Resistance.
So despite Sony's assurances that "all your old PSP digital software will be playable from Day 1 on Vita", that is not the case at all. You can't even work around the Vita's stubborn download refusals. Oh joy. Damn, I really wanted to play Resistance Retribution on vacation now that I can play it with the right analog stick as the camera... :(
Good God, it's like Sony hasn't learned anything from their past mistakes. Wow. So, hypothetically speaking, if I have PS1 games installed on my PS3, I can't transfer them to the Vita unless they're in "bubble" form (meaning I'd have to redownload them again)?
Uncharted is about the only exclusive game that's making me keep my PS3. If Uncharted was a multiplatform game (the IP not owned by Sony), I'd sell my PS3 immediately and buy an Xbox 360 instead.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 21, 2012, 07:47:45 AM
There's no reason you can't own a PS3 and a 360. I admit there is a lot of over lap between the two and if you don't have a lot of money to throw around it probably makes more sense to just own one or the other, but there are some exclusives you will end up missing out on by only having one.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on April 23, 2012, 06:38:10 PM
Ken Kutaragi left (or fled or whatever) Sony soon after the PS3 launched. The PS4 will be Sony's first console without Kutaragi and his input, but we can already see from the Vita that whoever is now pulling the strings over at Sony seems to have the same mentality that power is more important than affordability.
That quote from Kaz Hirai from 2009 (which was only 3 years ago) is consistent with what we are seeing from the Vita, so it seems not at all unlikely that the PS4 will be a similarly powerful and expensive piece of hardware which will struggle to see adoption by both consumers and developers alike until price drops take effect.
The board of directors actually "promoted" Kutaragi after the PS3 launched, essentially taking him away from his position of overseeing PlayStation hardware development.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 25, 2012, 02:00:58 AM
There's no reason you can't own a PS3 and a 360. I admit there is a lot of over lap between the two and if you don't have a lot of money to throw around it probably makes more sense to just own one or the other, but there are some exclusives you will end up missing out on by only having one.
Money, my dear friend. I already have a hard enough time keeping up with the Wii, 3DS and PS3.
Plus I don't really have the time or patience to handle 3 different consoles and all the games I have.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on April 25, 2012, 04:22:38 PM
Uncharted is about the only exclusive game that's making me keep my PS3. If Uncharted was a multiplatform game (the IP not owned by Sony), I'd sell my PS3 immediately and buy an Xbox 360 instead.
I have a feeling you'll enjoy The Last of Us when it releases.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ymeegod on May 10, 2012, 08:49:48 AM
TOKYO, May 10 (Xinhua) -- Sony Corp. reported Thursday the biggest-ever group net loss of 456.66 billion yen (about 5.72 billion U.S. dollars) in 2011 fiscal year and vowed to return to the black in the current fiscal year.
The Japanese electronics and entertainment company suffered the biggest loss in its 66-year history in 2011 fiscal year, larger than the loss of 259.59 billion yen (about 3.25 billion U.S. dollars) in the previous year and the fourth straight year of red ink.
Sony said it expects to return to the black by strengthening its core electronics business and enhancing restructuring such as personnel and cost cuts in the current fiscal year.
Sony changed new president and CEO since April aiming to save the company's TV business from the more-than-expected lose.
Last year's flooding in Thailand and earthquake and tsunami in Japan led the Japanese electronics giant into a slump. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So that's an net loss of 9 billion dollars for the last two years?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on May 10, 2012, 08:58:48 AM
Seriously... How can sony survive losing that much every year.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 10, 2012, 03:33:19 PM
Their cash flows aren't that bad. Losing money is bad. But they're not losing $5.7 billion in cash.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 10, 2012, 05:41:36 PM
Its Karma.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 10, 2012, 07:18:35 PM
Their cash flows aren't that bad. Losing money is bad. But they're not losing $5.7 billion in cash.
Losing $5.7 billion is just bad. No positive way to spin that.
Not in the press release, but the PlayStation division lost $2.8 billion (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-05-10-sony-playstation-division-suffers-full-year-USD2-8bn-loss?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=us-daily (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-05-10-sony-playstation-division-suffers-full-year-USD2-8bn-loss?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=us-daily)). Specific numbers: *Sony's Consumer Products and Services division (PlayStation division) lost ¥229.8 billion ($2.8 billion), the previous year it made a profit of ¥10.8 billion ($135.2 million) *Sales were down from $48.06 billion to $38.2 billion *PlayStation 3 sales dropped from 14.3 million to 13.9 million (software sales increased from 147.9 million to 156.6 million) *PlayStation Portable sales dropped from 8 million to 6.8 million (software sales dropped from 46.6 million to 32.2 million) *PlayStation 2 sales dropped from 6.4 million to 4.1 million (software sales dropped from 16.4 million to 7.9 million)
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 10, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
So the question is what direction does Sony go? Obviously, they said they want a strength their core products, and they are definitely keeping with video games, but has Sony been in the black with video games? I honestly don't know. I know the PS2 did very well...but it also sold at a lose at first.
It doesn't really matter. I hope Sony the best of luck...but I wouldn't mind it if they dropped out of the console market and let another new comer take that 3rd spot. MS is pretty good and aren't crazy arrogant yet. Nintendo has been knocked down long ago...but are slowly healing. I would love to see a newcomer with a different approach to games enter the market and see how they can shape things up.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 10, 2012, 11:19:21 PM
Their cash flows aren't that bad. Losing money is bad. But they're not losing $5.7 billion in cash.
Losing $5.7 billion is just bad. No positive way to spin that.
What I was saying is that while they have negative cash flows (which is bad), it's not as high as $5.7billion. I was answering Ceric's question. That's how companies can lose so much and stick around. It's all about cash flows.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 10, 2012, 11:48:37 PM
Microsoft entered the video game market crazy arrogant. Remember this is the company that had illegally monopolized the computer industry for years. They entered the video game industry hoping to do to everyone's living rooms what they had already done to everyone's computer.... you might even go as far as to say crazy arrogance is the reason they even got involved in video games in the first place.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on May 10, 2012, 11:58:02 PM
Personally, I like the triumvirate we have right now. Microsoft pushes online, multiplayer, and media integration advances; Sony seems to have the best variety of experiences, has this tendency to pick up these weird little art projects, and they're the standard-bearer for pushing the technical boundary of console gaming; and Nintendo pushes a lot of more "classic"/"retro" experiences, interface advances, and odd hardware gimmicks. In their own weird way, the 3 complement each other well. It'd be a pity to lose any one of them.
IMO, I think Sony needs to start gutting some of their electronic divisions since I believe those have been the heaviest anchors on their finances for the last few years. With the way the economy has been, people just really aren't buying expensive televisions anymore (especially for 3D, a fad I'm glad seems to be slowly dying out again in relevance). Meanwhile, they've invested a lot of money into Vita that's not paying them any dividends at the moment because there isn't a steady flow of games and necessary components of the experience (i.e. the memory cards) are way too expensive. Those who have Vitas have little to play on them, and those who don't don't see a reason to buy them yet (especially because of all the costs). Hirai has been on record saying he wants to refocus the company on its gaming division, which I think is the right call but they need to cut the dead weight if they want to make any headway.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 11, 2012, 12:06:36 AM
Personally, I like the triumvirate we have right now. Microsoft pushes online, multiplayer, and media integration advances; Sony seems to have the best variety of experiences, has this tendency to pick up these weird little art projects, and they're the standard-bearer for pushing the technical boundary of console gaming; and Nintendo pushes a lot of more "classic"/"retro" experiences, interface advances, and odd hardware gimmicks. In their own weird way, the 3 complement each other well. It'd be a pity to lose any one of them.
It might seem that way, but don't forget Microsoft entered the race immediately after Sega dropped out and usurped the niche that Sega had filled since the Genesis. So if one of the three dropped out now it wouldn't be a big deal because someone else would come along (Apple? Steam? EA? Sega again?) and would cleanly pick up that niche and business would continue as usual almost uninterrupted.
The only people who would be upset by this shift would be the respective loyal fans. When Sega dropped out it was a great blow to Sega fans, and the same goes for Atari fans when Atari dropped out. But to everyone else it was no big deal, and things just carried on without interruption.
That said, I think the biggest blow to fans would be if Nintendo dropped out because Nintendo has been in the business the longest by far. Microsoft has only been in the business about 10 years, so it would be the least blow if they disappeared. Sony would be somewhere in between. In any case though, only the fans would suffer and the video gaming industry would survive regardless of who the players are. It's like Darwinism. Species evolve and go extinct all the time and have done that for millions of years. Its sad when a species goes extinct, but life persists, and some other species comes along and fills in the old niche.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on May 11, 2012, 12:14:49 AM
Yeah, a company like Apple could take the place of Sony or one of the other Big Three, but do we really want a company like Apple in the console industry? With all the damage that the App Store already seems to have done to mobile gaming w/ the emphasis on extremely cheap and extremely limited experiences, I don't want to see that happen to console gaming in the near future. Valve could jump in, but while they have their own respectable in-house titles, I really don't see them as being enough to justify being a 1st party platform holder. I like them where they are with Steam doing things to keep PC gaming relevant and accessible/affordable.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2012, 02:57:57 AM
Microsoft entered the video game market crazy arrogant. Remember this is the company that had illegally monopolized the computer industry for years. They entered the video game industry hoping to do to everyone's living rooms what they had already done to everyone's computer.... you might even go as far as to say crazy arrogance is the reason they even got involved in video games in the first place.
Arrogance is a strong word. It's always been MS's endgame to try and connect everything in your house, hell be you house. They put out those videos every few years showing you their vision of the future with all the fancy gadgets and gizmos. They saw a clear opportunity to buy their way in to the industry and took the chance.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 11, 2012, 03:13:42 AM
Arrogance is about the right word. They had expected to steamroll the then smaller game industry, backed by the then unlimited funds of Windows. MS never expected to encounter so much resistance even with the money hat party during Xbox one. Overall it has been a loss making exercise and it was never really an viable entry into the living room due to the resetting nature of the console generations.
Apple has done much better at getting into the living room by making their products available 24/7, not just a box in a room, it's closer to a life style than a product.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2012, 03:32:19 AM
Moneyhats were the only way MS was gonna get exclusives, or even any attention to their console for that matter. In fact, I think only a company like MS could fill in the void if one of the big three bowed out at this point. The required capital is enormous, and if you didn't already have game developers, you'd need to buy some.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 13, 2012, 05:22:18 PM
Arrogance is about the right word. They had expected to steamroll the then smaller game industry, backed by the then unlimited funds of Windows. MS never expected to encounter so much resistance even with the money hat party during Xbox one. Overall it has been a loss making exercise and it was never really an viable entry into the living room due to the resetting nature of the console generations.
Apple has done much better at getting into the living room by making their products available 24/7, not just a box in a room, it's closer to a life style than a product.
Microsoft is nowhere near as arrogant as Sony has been this whole gen.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 13, 2012, 06:40:39 PM
You know I don't think money hating into a generation is exactly arrogance. It is more like a desperate move to get into a highly competitive market and become relevant early on.
The Xbox, may have had to buy its way into the market...but the Xbox 360 did many things right...and despite having to pay for online gaming...everything else MS did with the Xbox 360 was of high quality...and good for gaming. (Yes I know the ring of death disaster...but not even that hurt MS too badly, because they were bringing the games people wanted to play.)
And, for all its worth MS's online structure is still the best in the business, so perhaps paying for it actually did bring the gamers a higher quality online experience.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 13, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
everything else MS did with the Xbox 360 was of high quality...and good for gaming. (Yes I know the ring of death disaster...but not even that hurt MS too badly, because they were bringing the games people wanted to play.)
Buying a console with that high of a failure rate shows how people love to waste their money. People were buying multiple consoles to replace their broken ones. When I buy a game system (or any device), I expect it to last and be of high quality. Nintendo consoles and the PS3 do that for me, and that's partially why I avoided the 360 this gen.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 13, 2012, 08:15:24 PM
But Microsoft extended the warranties for them, and they've been at a point where the hardware has basically the same failure rate as the Wii and PS3 slim for almost four years. You don't want that hardware defect to happen, but if it does happen I don't really think you could handle it much better than Microsoft did.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 13, 2012, 11:13:06 PM
But Microsoft extended the warranties for them, and they've been at a point where the hardware has basically the same failure rate as the Wii and PS3 slim for almost four years. You don't want that hardware defect to happen, but if it does happen I don't really think you could handle it much better than Microsoft did.
The slim Xbox 360 only has a 1-year warranty. So either Microsoft completely fixed the hardware defects, or their customers are being fooled by the standard warranty.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 13, 2012, 11:32:29 PM
I don't think either the PS3 Slim or the post 2009 Xbox models have the same degree of rock solid stability and very low failure rate that the Wii has. Are they more reliable than the PS3 Phat and older 360 models? Sure, absolutely. But nothing compares to the Wii in that respect. That's one good thing about going with older more well established hardware like Nintendo did.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Oblivion on May 13, 2012, 11:42:21 PM
Funny, what about all those reports about the disc drive crapping out? In my small school of 200 kids, I would say about half of them own a Wii, and about 10-15 of them have broken Wiis. The problem? Broken disc drive. I myself have had two disc drives break on me.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 13, 2012, 11:51:20 PM
And, for all its worth MS's online structure is still the best in the business, so perhaps paying for it actually did bring the gamers a higher quality online experience.
Wrong. That distinction goes to PC/Mac. Remember you can game with computers too. Xbox Live compared to what's on offer on the PC is a laughing stock worthy of derision. When they tried to bring the same system over to the PC it was DOA, twice. When asked to pay for it it was met by a universal "**** off" before the sentence finished.
It took MS 3 years to handle the RROD problem and just the RROD problem. Other than sunk costs, rabid fanboyism and unlimited funds, I have no idea how the 360 survived the electronic equivalent of producing a Pinto.
Sony is well past arrogance, it's more "Disconnected from reality". Insanity is even better. They keep trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Add a dash of willful ignorance, bake at 230c for 20 minutes it's ready to eat fresh.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 14, 2012, 12:22:08 AM
But Microsoft extended the warranties for them, and they've been at a point where the hardware has basically the same failure rate as the Wii and PS3 slim for almost four years. You don't want that hardware defect to happen, but if it does happen I don't really think you could handle it much better than Microsoft did.
The slim Xbox 360 only has a 1-year warranty. So either Microsoft completely fixed the hardware defects, or their customers are being fooled by the standard warranty.
The first one. They actually eliminated the RROD (for all intents and purposes) in the last revision of the original hardware, even before the slim.
And, for all its worth MS's online structure is still the best in the business, so perhaps paying for it actually did bring the gamers a higher quality online experience.
Wrong. That distinction goes to PC/Mac. Remember you can game with computers too. Xbox Live compared to what's on offer on the PC is a laughing stock worthy of derision. When they tried to bring the same system over to the PC it was DOA, twice. When asked to pay for it it was met by a universal "**** off" before the sentence finished.
It took MS 3 years to handle the RROD problem and just the RROD problem. Other than sunk costs, rabid fanboyism and unlimited funds, I have no idea how the 360 survived the electronic equivalent of producing a Pinto.
Sony is well past arrogance, it's more "Disconnected from reality". Insanity is even better. They keep trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Add a dash of willful ignorance, bake at 230c for 20 minutes it's ready to eat fresh.
Outside of dedicated servers, how exactly is the PC experience that much better than XBL? I'd argue the failure of Games for Windows Live stems more from the elitist attitude of a lot of PC gamers, who wouldn't have liked a service ported from a console no matter how good it was. And charging on the PC side is flat out stupid, considering the comparable experiences given away for free.
As someone who's used the online capabilities on all the current gen systems, Xbox Live is easily the best. Whether that's a testament to the quality of Microsoft or an indictment of the incompetence of Sony and Nintendo can be debated. Microsoft charges for it because they can get away with it; if someone on the PC side could, they would as well. The way to stop that is for either Sony or Nintendo to do as well as XBL without charging, which might force Microsoft to step down.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 14, 2012, 01:00:04 AM
GFWL was a referendum on the direction of PC gaming. Steam had already offered a unified system to not only play games, but be a one stop store, voice chat, community, modding, SDKs, acceptable DRM and of course the dedicated servers. GFWL offered nothing comparable with a slimy layer of monetizing. It was doomed to fail not because the people on PC were elitist, far from it. MS failed because they brought a substandard service to the market that had the freedom of choice where a higher level of service has always existed for free in on form or another.
For the consoles, XBL might be the high water mark, but that is an indictment as to how low the quality of service exists on consoles.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 14, 2012, 01:11:58 AM
Xbox 360 still doesn't have a web browser!
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 14, 2012, 02:32:57 AM
And, for all its worth MS's online structure is still the best in the business, so perhaps paying for it actually did bring the gamers a higher quality online experience.
Wrong. That distinction goes to PC/Mac. Remember you can game with computers too. Xbox Live compared to what's on offer on the PC is a laughing stock worthy of derision. When they tried to bring the same system over to the PC it was DOA, twice. When asked to pay for it it was met by a universal "**** off" before the sentence finished.
It took MS 3 years to handle the RROD problem and just the RROD problem. Other than sunk costs, rabid fanboyism and unlimited funds, I have no idea how the 360 survived the electronic equivalent of producing a Pinto.
Sony is well past arrogance, it's more "Disconnected from reality". Insanity is even better. They keep trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Add a dash of willful ignorance, bake at 230c for 20 minutes it's ready to eat fresh.
You can game with computers yes. But computers are NOT consoles. They will never be consoles and are viewed as a completely different beast. And I don't even care about the debate about which is better, because it doesn't matter. Computers are really part of the console market...even though consoles might be part of the computer gaming market.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 14, 2012, 11:34:28 AM
If you did say "in the console business" I probably won't have an issue. But you didn't. Secondly, PC's is part of the gaming ecosystem as much as consoles, handhelds and iPhones. Then the question becomes "Does paying for an online gaming service make it better?". The answer is possibly, probably not. PCs have shown time and again that you don't need to pay for good online. The act of paying for something doesn't automatically make it btter or have greater value.
Part of the reason why XBL is top dog on consoles is that they made the investment for online far earlier than Sony or Nintendo. MS is an extra generation of working online experience that the other two don't have. The answers to a good online system is in front of them, but it takes years for that information to become institutional knowledge unless somebody upends the tea table. Nintendo has nobody with that kind of experience to drive online for them and Sony had to do a Manhattan type project to get an online system for the PS3.
When they tried to bring XBL to PCs, they went up against decades of development and refinement by countless people since the first online game in 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_video_game). There was no way they could have ever match that with just 5 years of experience in a community that partially didn't function on money hats and valued freedom more than convenience.
Before you continue Spak-Spang, have a peek into this thread here (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=37728.msg732847#msg732847). You're going to talk pass yourself if you continue like Ninsage did.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 14, 2012, 06:52:47 PM
Outside of dedicated servers, how exactly is the PC experience that much better than XBL? I'd argue the failure of Games for Windows Live stems more from the elitist attitude of a lot of PC gamers, who wouldn't have liked a service ported from a console no matter how good it was. And charging on the PC side is flat out stupid, considering the comparable experiences given away for free.
As someone who's used the online capabilities on all the current gen systems, Xbox Live is easily the best. Whether that's a testament to the quality of Microsoft or an indictment of the incompetence of Sony and Nintendo can be debated. Microsoft charges for it because they can get away with it; if someone on the PC side could, they would as well. The way to stop that is for either Sony or Nintendo to do as well as XBL without charging, which might force Microsoft to step down.
Paying for an online gaming service is stupid regardless of what device it's on. Which is why I'm glad that Nintendo has theirs completely free. Sony offers an optional premium subscription (PS Plus) that nets you early beta access, free games, discounts, etc.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 14, 2012, 06:57:18 PM
Nya...I will not talk past myself, because I don't know much about PC games. And you are right I should have included console systems in my post. I didn't because being on a console board and talking strictly about the 3 console makers, I believed I didn't have too. However, I can see that was a mistake as it left out the computer gamers that do make up a part of the gaming community and have had huge effects on online games and the direction of gaming as a whole.
That said, I have always been a console gamer, and in my mind have always separated PC gaming and console gaming...I know many others do the same.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Evan_B on May 20, 2012, 01:11:53 PM
The way I see it (and I'm just chiming in on the Sony arrogance thing), is that Sony's arrogance is a marketing ploy. The more of a douchebag you appear to look like, the more douchebags you'll get buying your games and your systems. Considering the majority of Sony all-star titles involve quick matches of shooting each other to death, killing things brutally, and being irredeemable assholes, I'd say they're reaching their target audience.
There's other stuff to play on the PS3, sure, and props to you who actually DO play those games. But whose raking in the dough year after year with a new FPS?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on May 20, 2012, 01:26:33 PM
Considering the majority of Sony all-star titles involve quick matches of shooting each other to death, killing things brutally, and being irredeemable assholes, I'd say they're reaching their target audience.
And by "majority", you mean...four, at best: Resistance; Uncharted; God of War; and Killzone, and people play Uncharted for its story-focused Single-Player so I am tempted to disqualify it. There's also Twisted Metal; Warhawk; and now Starhawk for multiplayer combat, but those are 3rd person vehicular combat franchises (two of which are built around team play), not FPS games (and not particularly graphic either).
As for "whose raking in the dough" (nice grammar, by the way), that would be Activision. Nothing Sony has released can even approach selling half as well as a Call of Duty or Battlefield title, or for that matter the Shooter-heavy Microsoft franchises like Gears of War and Halo. Meanwhile, you casually disregard exclusive franchises or titles like Sly Cooper; Ratchet & Clank; Jak & Daxter; the Team Ico trilogy; LittleBigPlanet; Modnation Racers; Flow/Flower/Journey; Infamous; The Last of Us; Heavy Rain; Valkyria Chronicles; etc.
I think some Nintendo fans are just a little too quick to insult and mock shooter fans, but I suppose it's understandable when Nintendo doesn't have a 1st party shooter franchise.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Evan_B on May 20, 2012, 01:59:47 PM
Yeah, I'm just gonna not leave the console discussion forum anymore. Good job pointing out my grammatical mistake, too- you're certainly doing a good job of proving my stance wrong. If you wanted to say I'm a dumbass, you could have just said it outright.
Now, as for my comments before- I KNOW who is making money off of these game sales, but there's the extremely dedicated FPS fanbase on the PS3 who is continuously buying these games, so I'd like to think that Sony somewhat relies those sales and the promise that their console-owners will have a new FPS shoved down their throats every year to further promote their system. Seeing as the gaming industry is essentially graphics and online-multiplayer driven these days, essentially any game that promotes that image would be beneficial to Sony. Also- I apologize, I shouldn't have said "Sony all-star titles," I should have said "games that sell well on the PS3". My bad.
Also, Sly hasn't been seen for years (Sly 4, I know, but still), neither has Jak, The Last Guardian is coming out god-knows-when (though I'm certainly excited for when it does), and Valkyria Chronicles is more niche-y than any FPS. Heavy Rain is a title I'm not going to get into- I have nothing to say about it.
I am sincerely sorry for making such a shallow and not-well-thought-out post. I knew I was sure to piss someone off, but I'm not going to take back what I said. To me, Sony represents a lot of what's wrong with modern video-gaming, despite their ability to create a quality title on occasion. I won't deny that there are a number of impressive Sony titles out there, but the games that get the most support are hyper-violent titles and are often sequels. Most of the games that find their home and make money on the PS3 are hilariously not Sony titles. It just seems like they embrace that rather than attempt to do anything innovative.
Which leads into the whole issue of Sony being all about graphical hardware and software and online functionality- two things that aren't bad but are nowhere near as unique and interesting as, well, what Nintendo attempts to do every generation, which is give developers new hardware that they can try new things with. But that's not relevant, and probably doesn't mesh well with your views. In fact, nothing I've said probably does, so it's a moot point and I probably shouldn't have posted this in the first place.
And don't get me wrong, I like shooters. I also like shooters that attempt to do something interesting. Which is actually why I respect Killzone, and to a much lesser extent, Resistance.
Off to lurking in the console forums again.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 20, 2012, 02:02:40 PM
The way I see it (and I'm just chiming in on the Sony arrogance thing), is that Sony's arrogance is a marketing ploy. The more of a douchebag you appear to look like, the more douchebags you'll get buying your games and your systems. Considering the majority of Sony all-star titles involve quick matches of shooting each other to death, killing things brutally, and being irredeemable assholes, I'd say they're reaching their target audience.
There's other stuff to play on the PS3, sure, and props to you who actually DO play those games. But whose raking in the dough year after year with a new FPS?
That would be Activision, and to be fair they do usually put COD on Nintendo's systems as well. MW2 back in 2009 was the only exception. Every other time its been on the Wii.
I think some Nintendo fans are just a little too quick to insult and mock shooter fans, but I suppose it's understandable when Nintendo doesn't have a 1st party shooter franchise.
I have suggested before in other threads that this is the game Nintendo needs to make. The problem I think is the Nintendo company is too focused on the Japanese market, and in Japan no one cares about FPS games. They are a HUGE deal over here in the west though, but this is the one genre which Nintendo's library of franchises is glaringly lacking in. The Metroid Prime series moved into this direction, and the result was the Prime series became the best selling Metroid games ever. I don't think Metroid should fill that genre, though. It should remain the Adventure that it has always been. But Nintendo needs to make something FPS, and instead of shoehorning some existing franchise into it they need to make it from scratch. Maybe they can't do it, but Retro can, and they own Retro.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on May 20, 2012, 02:17:31 PM
Nintendo doesn't even necessarily need to make an FPS, though that would be nice. One of the biggest missed opportunities for me on the Wii was that Nintendo never made or published a 3rd person shooter, a genre where I thought the Wiimote's pointer functionality really shined in titles like Resident Evil 4. They did publish Sin & Punishment 2, but while that was good (and I really should finish it one of these days) it really wasn't the same sort of experience as something like an Uncharted; Dead Space; or Resident Evil. I suppose Battalion Wars could have been that, but that seemed to get dropped fairly quickly. A Nintendo-exclusive FPS would be nice, though.
Sony's certainly made more than its fair share of mistakes this generation, but I think as far as software lineup is concerned they have the best variety of experiences on the market. Unfortunately, as Shane Satterfield was saying on GameTrailers' Invisible Walls and Bonus Round shows a few weeks back, they have all these interesting and quality experiences. However, the vast majority (if not all) of them have not sold to expectations (especially FPS franchises like Killzone and Resistance) and at this point I don't know what more Sony could do to change that.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 20, 2012, 07:57:38 PM
Dear Sony,
Please redesign the DualShock so it's more ergonomic and less cramped. I'd hate to use the exact same controller for another 10 years...
Thanks.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Shaymin on May 20, 2012, 09:23:41 PM
They tried to redesign the PS3 controller prior to launch. People hated it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on May 20, 2012, 09:29:23 PM
Yeah, I'm glad they came to their senses and stuck with the Dualshock 3 design over...that.
And people say the Move looks like a sex toy...
Yeah I remember that. Though I wish the current DualShock 3 was still different from the same old design we've had for the past 15 years...
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 21, 2012, 12:01:47 AM
Actually, I think Nintendo doesn't need a FPS shooter or 3rd person shooter...then need a great multiplayer combat game...however they make it. And Brawl doesn't count...because it is a fighter and plays drastically differently.
The thing is many of Nintendo's franchises could be made in the multi-player experiences people want to play.
3rd person shooter: Star Fox with some flight combat. Pokemon MMO Battalion Wars: Team strategy game.
Nintendo still needs a First Person Shooter game...I wish they would go the spy root again. Or flesh out the Giest experience and make it more interesting.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 21, 2012, 12:24:42 AM
Actually, I think Nintendo doesn't need a FPS shooter or 3rd person shooter...then need a great multiplayer combat game...however they make it. And Brawl doesn't count...because it is a fighter and plays drastically differently.
The thing is many of Nintendo's franchises could be made in the multi-player experiences people want to play.
3rd person shooter: Star Fox with some flight combat. Pokemon MMO Battalion Wars: Team strategy game.
Nintendo still needs a First Person Shooter game...I wish they would go the spy root again. Or flesh out the Giest experience and make it more interesting.
I don't think Nintendo had anything to do with Geist. That was all n-Space's doing, Nintendo was just the publisher.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 21, 2012, 01:01:11 AM
Tendoboy, please stop quoting the entirety of the post above you. That's what the preview button is for and second, people can and do read.
The PS controller is what I would describe as "Perfectly functional in 1996". Shifting the left stick into the primary position would do wonders. Reshaping and relabeling the shape buttons to something more memorable like ABXY would make QTE more tolerable. A proper non-weaponized D-pad. All that would make it something resembling a modern controller.
It would make it very close to an Xbox controller, but that ones works. The GC controller is just about perfect. Instantly recognisable buttons, large analog shoulders, good grips, good movements on the sticks. Needed a Z2 button, bigger D-pad. Otherwise a perfect controller for almost any game that didn't require specialised arcade controls like fighters.
Star Fox needs to stay in his plane period. Assault was an alright game, but he was all ways at his strongest in the air or space. If your going to take him out of the air, give him a transforming mechaplane. Add customizable weapon load out that is hot swapable from kills and you might have something cooking.
Battalion Wars is a shooter and a strategy game. 2 birds with one stone. A straight up first person shooter would be very difficult. The market is flooded and Nintendo has the least experience and interest in that area.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 21, 2012, 02:03:11 AM
Reshaping and relabeling the shape buttons to something more memorable like ABXY would make QTE more tolerable. A proper non-weaponized D-pad. All that would make it something resembling a modern controller.
Sony pretty much created the template for modern controllers with the DualShock, so why would they change it?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 21, 2012, 03:10:02 AM
Oohboy: This is where I disagree. Yes, Star Fox has been best in his ship...but just because a better game hasn't been made yet, doesn't mean it can't.
And for Nintendo, Star Fox is THE franchise to do it with...because the setting is futuristic...and uses animals instead of real people...allowing for more cartoon violence instead of actually killing people. The Sci-Fi setting also would allow for interesting and fast combat. And Star Fox already has vehicles which is always a great addition to a more arcade combat shooter.
Also, with really tightly designed levels you can have multi-player battles with unique objectives. Two moons are battling each other in a Capture the Flag...type game...ect.
Battalion Wars I would just to just get the online multi-player treatment. Add to it the potential of having 2-3 players on a same team, organizing and controlling teams of units and it could be an amazing experience.
I agree with relabeling the buttons, and creating a better D-pad the PS D-pad is horrible, horrible horrible.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 21, 2012, 04:01:47 AM
Oohboy: This is where I disagree. Yes, Star Fox has been best in his ship...but just because a better game hasn't been made yet, doesn't mean it can't.
And for Nintendo, Star Fox is THE franchise to do it with...because the setting is futuristic...and uses animals instead of real people...allowing for more cartoon violence instead of actually killing people. The Sci-Fi setting also would allow for interesting and fast combat. And Star Fox already has vehicles which is always a great addition to a more arcade combat shooter.
Also, with really tightly designed levels you can have multi-player battles with unique objectives. Two moons are battling each other in a Capture the Flag...type game...ect.
Battalion Wars I would just to just get the online multi-player treatment. Add to it the potential of having 2-3 players on a same team, organizing and controlling teams of units and it could be an amazing experience.
I agree with relabeling the buttons, and creating a better D-pad the PS D-pad is horrible, horrible horrible.
The PlayStation D-pad is perfect for platformers, much better than the Xbox 360's D-pad. I'm playing Mega Man 9, Mega Man 10, and Sonic 4: Episode 2 on my PS3 and they all controller wonderfully.
Then again, playing an 8-bit game on a non-Nintendo system feels really weird.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 21, 2012, 04:57:03 AM
I liked this Batarang design. In fact thats not a secret. I've had several arguments for this controller over the Dual Shock on this forum. Most of that is from using a NES Max and a Boomerange N64 Controller. Its not a bad design.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 21, 2012, 10:54:56 AM
I wish that Batarang controller did get released. It couldn't possibly be any worse than that piece of **** dualshock. I'm sure it would have been more comfortable to hold and use, mainly because there would actually be something there to hold onto.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 21, 2012, 08:45:56 PM
I liked this Batarang design. In fact thats not a secret. I've had several arguments for this controller over the Dual Shock on this forum. Most of that is from using a NES Max and a Boomerange N64 Controller. Its not a bad design.
That ain't no Batarang... :cool;
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 21, 2012, 09:39:25 PM
Actually the design isn't bad...it just needed tweaks. for one I think the handle bars could be shorter and the bottom perhaps have finger rests. And the button placement feels too far apart. Other than that...the actual shape and design isn't bad at all. It should have been tweaked not dropped.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Sarail on May 21, 2012, 11:28:06 PM
The photo doesn't really show it, but that thing is actually really small. The way you hold it was the evolutionary part of of the PS controller design. You almost grip it like a steering wheel at the 10 and 2 positions, but the way your thumbs lay down on the sticks feels very natural.
I really wish Sony would have gone with this controller design. Would have made a game like Uncharted all that much more enjoyable. Man. :/
EDIT: Found this GIF that does a great job explaining why it would have been more ergonomical than the DualShock design.
The photo doesn't really show it, but that thing is actually really small. The way you hold it was the evolutionary part of of the PS controller design. You almost grip it like a steering wheel at the 10 and 2 positions, but the way your thumbs lay down on the sticks feels very natural.
I really wish Sony would have gone with this controller design. Would have made a game like Uncharted all that much more enjoyable. Man. :/
EDIT: Found this GIF that does a great job explaining why it would have been more ergonomical than the DualShock design.
Who knows, maybe Sony will bring it back for the PS4. A DualShock redesign is LONG overdue. You can't keep the same controller design for another 15 years...
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 22, 2012, 04:52:14 AM
Who knows, maybe Sony will bring it back for the PS4.
I doubt it. Knowing Sony they will probably make a clone of the Wii U's tablet controller.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: oohhboy on May 22, 2012, 08:24:53 AM
The 3DS might be a bit slow, but the Vita is starting to look like death (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-22-nintendo-3ds-ps-vita-uk-sales-slower-than-predecessors).
Quote
As for the PlayStation Vita, Sony's handheld has just passed 100,000 units sold in the UK, PocketGamer.biz reports. That figure was achieved 10 weeks after going on sale on these shores.
It's also less than a third of the sales the PlayStation Portable managed 10 weeks after it went on sale in the UK.
Worldwide PlayStation Vita sales were 1.8 million at the end of March 2012. Sony boss Kaz Hirai described the tally as "a good start".
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on May 22, 2012, 09:24:34 AM
Who knows, maybe Sony will bring it back for the PS4.
I doubt it. Knowing Sony they will probably make a clone of the Wii U's tablet controller.
The Dual Shock is so Iconic for the Playstation brand that it be hard to seperate it even to copy the tablet.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on May 22, 2012, 01:56:30 PM
I really like the dualshock controller. It feels very natural in my hands and I have played enough QTEs in various games that I remember the shape buttons intuitively. I do not like the the shape and feel of the Gamecube controller. To each his own, I suppose.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 24, 2012, 11:37:22 PM
Sony Patents: Game Pausing In-Game Commercials http://www.google.com/patents?id=lDb9AQAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sony+entertainment&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLS-T8TGIqqI6AHM__GqCg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sony%20entertainment&f=false (http://www.google.com/patents?id=lDb9AQAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sony+entertainment&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLS-T8TGIqqI6AHM__GqCg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sony%20entertainment&f=false)
You have got to be kidding.
You better not pause my Action to sell me a Slim Jim, a Coke or a freaking Pizza. That is a horrible idea.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 25, 2012, 12:00:54 AM
Could be a new distribution model. Like how smart phone games can be free with ads. Sony won't let you buy used, but if you still need a discount, you can just watch commercials. Don't think it'll catch on though.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 25, 2012, 02:36:32 AM
Sony Patents: Game Pausing In-Game Commercials http://www.google.com/patents?id=lDb9AQAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sony+entertainment&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLS-T8TGIqqI6AHM__GqCg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sony%20entertainment&f=false (http://www.google.com/patents?id=lDb9AQAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sony+entertainment&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLS-T8TGIqqI6AHM__GqCg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sony%20entertainment&f=false)
You have got to be kidding.
You better not pause my Action to sell me a Slim Jim, a Coke or a freaking Pizza. That is a horrible idea.
Oh hell no. Sony will be dead to me if this happens. They can't patent that idea anyways because it's already being done with iOS and Android games. I'm so glad it hasn't spread to consoles or PC/Steam.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: broodwars on May 25, 2012, 02:38:44 AM
Honestly, with how rampant Microsoft is getting with ads on the Xbox 360's interface, they're probably not that far behind on implementing such a "feature" themselves. And people actually pay them for that experience, which just baffles me. :Q
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 25, 2012, 02:40:16 AM
Sony Patents: Game Pausing In-Game Commercials http://www.google.com/patents?id=lDb9AQAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sony+entertainment&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLS-T8TGIqqI6AHM__GqCg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sony%20entertainment&f=false (http://www.google.com/patents?id=lDb9AQAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sony+entertainment&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLS-T8TGIqqI6AHM__GqCg&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=sony%20entertainment&f=false)
You have got to be kidding.
You better not pause my Action to sell me a Slim Jim, a Coke or a freaking Pizza. That is a horrible idea.
Oh hell no. Sony will be dead to me if this happens. They can't patent that idea anyways because it's already being done with iOS and Android games. I'm so glad it hasn't spread to consoles or PC/Steam.
Patents like this are more about implementation than a baseline idea like "ads during a game."
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 25, 2012, 02:52:39 AM
Also, them patenting it doesn't mean they're actually going to do it. Sony (and Nintendo, and every other tech company) patents essentially every idea they come up with, regardless of their intent to use them. It's both a symptom and a cause of the patent system being as fucked up as it is.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 25, 2012, 02:58:30 AM
Rumor: Sony Announcing Cloud Gaming Deal at E3 2012 http://www.tomsguide.com/us/OnLive-Gaikai-E30-2012-PlayStation-Vita,news-15353.html
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 25, 2012, 06:06:11 AM
Rumor: Sony Announcing Cloud Gaming Deal at E3 2012 http://www.tomsguide.com/us/OnLive-Gaikai-E30-2012-PlayStation-Vita,news-15353.html (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/OnLive-Gaikai-E30-2012-PlayStation-Vita,news-15353.html)
If that's Sony's big reveal, then it's ruined now by this rumor.
And isn't Gakai pretty much vaporware at this point? All they currently offer is demos, while OnLive has full games available and a subscription service.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Shaymin on May 25, 2012, 07:51:56 AM
I really hope this is a patent designed to stop someone like say, Microsoft from implementing the same thing.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 25, 2012, 01:52:41 PM
I really hope this is a patent designed to stop someone like say, Microsoft from implementing the same thing.
All it would do is stop Microsoft from doing it that exact same way, not from doing the basic idea.
I think the whole idea of cloud gaming is stupid. The big reason being that you lose access to games you "bought" if/when the service ends, and that you can't play them if your Internet goes down. If they make it an option (like if you buy a physical copy you get a free digital copy, the same way movies do it with stuff like UltraViolet), they might be acceptable.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 25, 2012, 03:46:19 PM
I really hope this is a patent designed to stop someone like say, Microsoft from implementing the same thing.
All it would do is stop Microsoft from doing it that exact same way, not from doing the basic idea.
I think the whole idea of cloud gaming is stupid. The big reason being that you lose access to games you "bought" if/when the service ends, and that you can't play them if your Internet goes down. If they make it an option (like if you buy a physical copy you get a free digital copy, the same way movies do it with stuff like UltraViolet), they might be acceptable.
Well look at Netflix. You don't own any of the movies you are streaming with that service.
Steam is just as bad as one of those streaming services. Yes you actually "bought" the games and have them installed on your own computer, but you need to be logged into Steam at all times just to play them. If your internet goes down, you can't play anything.
The thing I like about the 3DS is you don't have to be online to play the games you downloaded. You can take the 3DS anywhere and play any game you have installed.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: nickmitch on May 25, 2012, 07:41:05 PM
The Netflix comparison isn't apples to apples. With Netflix, you pay for access to watch a library of movies, not for each movie individually. What Spike was talking about was paying per game and then having limited access to it.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 25, 2012, 09:51:32 PM
Steam is just as bad as one of those streaming services. Yes you actually "bought" the games and have them installed on your own computer, but you need to be logged into Steam at all times just to play them. If your internet goes down, you can't play anything.
Can't you use steam in the offline mode?
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Caliban on May 25, 2012, 09:58:06 PM
Steam is just as bad as one of those streaming services. Yes you actually "bought" the games and have them installed on your own computer, but you need to be logged into Steam at all times just to play them. If your internet goes down, you can't play anything.
Can't you use steam in the offline mode?
You can't.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 25, 2012, 10:25:32 PM
You can if you know it's going to happen ahead of time.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on May 29, 2012, 06:43:56 PM
I think the whole idea of cloud gaming is stupid. The big reason being that you lose access to games you "bought" if/when the service ends, and that you can't play them if your Internet goes down. If they make it an option (like if you buy a physical copy you get a free digital copy, the same way movies do it with stuff like UltraViolet), they might be acceptable.
I like this idea. Maybe OnLive and Steam get together where you buy once for both services and can stream the game to wherever OnLive streams (their set top box, PS3 if it happens, PC, tablets, etc.) and then get a Steam license to use on your Steam account. Buy the game once, play it anywhere and even without an internet connection if you know how to do that. I could buy into that idea.
In regards to OnLive on PS3, I like the idea. It would open up a huge library of PC games onto the PS3 and have them at a better graphics setting than the PS3 is capable of internally. It would depend on the price though.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on May 30, 2012, 01:22:44 PM
I look at Netflix more as a movie rental service. It replaces the old video stores. But if I want to OWN a movie I go buy the DVD and I can watch that DVD forever as long as I have a working DVD player. With cloud gaming it would likley be that that would be the way to own the game, so I never actually own it at all and one day the game I bought disappears for good.
I won't buy a cloud game. I won't buy a system in which that is the way to play games. I won't buy a game with pausing advertisements and I won't buy a system where that feature is built in. I would just entertain myself with retro systems if no other option was available. I do not willingly pay for advertisements.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 30, 2012, 04:15:44 PM
In my opinion a game having advertisements is fine as long as the game is free. If instead of charging consumers $60 for a game, what if they gave the game away for free and then just made the money off the advertisements like how it works with TV? If it was like that I would be okay with it, but I agree with you that if you are paying for the game then you shouldn't have it interrupted with that ****. Game companies should make money one way or the other, but they shouldn't double dip and impose both ways on consumers.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ceric on May 30, 2012, 05:20:18 PM
Honestly, it depends on the ads.
Take a Baseball game. Real Advertising on the spots where you normally have advertising in a Baseball game would be fine by me. Same for a Racing game, Billboards in a city, ads in a newspaper, Brand Products, etc. Can actually help realism and environment if you don't need to explicitly set all that up.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Ian Sane on May 30, 2012, 05:25:37 PM
Take a Baseball game. Real Advertising on the spots where you normally have advertising in a Baseball game would be fine by me. Same for a Racing game, Billboards in a city, ads in a newspaper, Brand Products, etc. Can actually help realism and environment if you don't need to explicitly set all that up.
I don't really care about product placement that makes sense. I expect ads all over a baseball stadium. I don't want to deal with a pause in the baseball game to deal with a commercial though. Yes, on TV baseball games have that but they don't from a player's perspective. A baseball player just runs on or off the field and away we go. I would hate to have to sit through a commercial between innings.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: Louieturkey on June 01, 2012, 04:28:43 PM
So the original rumor was that Sony was signing a deal to have a "popular" game streaming service be provided on the PS3. Well now VG247 is stating that Sony may end up buying Gaikai outright (http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/01/rumour-sony-to-make-ps3-backwards-compatible-with-gaikai-deal/). Some are speculating that they will use this to stream PS1/2 games to people without having them have to be physically on the system so they can offer a bunch more games that way.
Title: Re: PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 01, 2012, 06:21:18 PM
So the original rumor was that Sony was signing a deal to have a "popular" game streaming service be provided on the PS3. Well now VG247 is stating that Sony may end up buying Gaikai outright (http://www.vg247.com/2012/06/01/rumour-sony-to-make-ps3-backwards-compatible-with-gaikai-deal/). Some are speculating that they will use this to stream PS1/2 games to people without having them have to be physically on the system so they can offer a bunch more games that way.
Why just limit it to PS1/2 games? Why not also include Vita and PS3 games (PSN and retail)?
EDIT: That article says nothing about Sony buying out Gaikai. It's just a deal between the 2 companies.
Title: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on October 12, 2012, 03:00:39 PM
There wasn't a thread for it because Sony has been very tight lipped. The code name for the project might be Orbis.
If this is something that ships with the PS4 I think it would be pretty cool. It would certainly help people who are visually impaired play games too. My only concern is the battery life on the thing, surely heating and cooling a controller would consume a lot of energy.
Personally I felt the PS3's Move had a lot of potential but lacked the software to show it off. It would be interesting if it comes as standard in the PS4 and all games would support it in some way.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on October 12, 2012, 03:31:14 PM
That controller seems a gimmick at most, and not in a good way. I wouldn't want to use it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 12, 2012, 03:50:42 PM
It's Sony taking the lead on a new type of controller, which we've never really seen before. It might be a flop (and most likely will be), but at least they're trying something new instead of copying their competitors' ideas.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MegaByte on October 12, 2012, 04:02:41 PM
Interesting. I wouldn't be too quick to write it off as a lame gimmick just yet, it could be our imaginations haven't opened up to the possibilities it could yield. I remember the rumble pack for the old N64 and I thought "pssh, hows that going to help" but then when I put Starfox in there and I felt the ship taking off it really added to the experience.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on October 12, 2012, 05:09:08 PM
Well if the system flops we can the "Orbis" the "Obits". :)
With temperature I would be concerned about something malfunctioning and getting too hot and scalding you. But then it isn't like speakers constantly go too loud and blow your eardrums out so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.
The idea is at best a neat gimmick. Rumble is essentially a gimmick. You weren't really missing out on much on the N64 if you didn't have a Rumble Pack. It certainly added to the experience but you didn't need it. No one was going to go out and buy an N64 specifically because of rumble and no one will buy a PS4 for temperature. It just isn't that useful of a feature. It would be neat to feel cold in a snowy level or warm in a volcano but that's a "wow, that's cool" idea the first time and after about a month of PS4 ownership you'll just turn it off.
Now as one of many new ideas? Then maybe you'll sell some systems. But I think temperature would only really impress if it was on the first motion controller. The real appeal here is virtual reality. The Wii grabbed everyone's attention because it was a step towards virtual reality. Temperature is a further step but it's a minor one. The Wii looked something people had dreamed of their whole lives. Temperature is just something you expect with virtual reality but only when you stop and think about it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on October 12, 2012, 08:52:56 PM
I can look back on the rumble pack now and think "Yeah it wasn't that great, it was just rumble after all" and its certainly something we take for granted now because everyone has it, but when I remember back to my first experience with the rumble pak on Starfox, it was incredible. The vibrations were very strong and made a lot of noise during intense moments in the game. So no, I didn't need it to play the game but it transformed a good game in to a great game.
There's that quote “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away” and I certainly would not have removed rumble from Star Fox if I could help it.
If Sony are going to include that temperature wand as standard on the PS4 then they are going to need one killer game to get it off the ground.
Its going to be interesting to see how Sony compete with Microsoft on the grounds of being an entertainment hub. Only 1 gimmick can sit on top of your TV, either the new Kinect or the new Move.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 12, 2012, 09:38:57 PM
There wasn't a thread for it because Sony has been very tight lipped. The code name for the project might be Orbis.
PS4 - Officially Under Development (2014 release?) (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=34473.0) < Current PS4 (Orbis) Rumor and Speculation thread
And who really wants a controller that makes your palms sweat?
and Rumble was a great addition that added immersion to games when used correctly. That is a major reason why it has stuck around for so long since it's introduction.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on October 12, 2012, 10:39:56 PM
I remember there being rumors about the Wii (then revolution) controllers having this functionality.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 12, 2012, 11:14:25 PM
so do I. I also remember rumors of a projector being under the flap.
If Sony were to attempt to make this the default controller of the system, and the sixaxis/dual shock from PS3 the secondary controller, I would think Sony went crazy.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on October 13, 2012, 07:58:07 AM
There's no way a variant on the Move controller is going to be a main controller for Sony's next system, not after how badly Move has failed to catch on on the PS3. I could see them having a better version of the Move ready for the PS4, but the PS4's main controller is probably going to be a Dualshock 4 or something.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Shaymin on October 13, 2012, 08:08:44 AM
Boomerang or bust.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on October 13, 2012, 01:21:12 PM
Well I think part of the reason why Move never got any traction was because only a small portion of PS3 owners were also Move owners. It was an optional accessory. If its bundled with the PS4 then it would be an entirely different situation because 100% of PS4 owners would also be owners of the new Move.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 13, 2012, 04:48:13 PM
Sony should reinvent Move to be more of a detachable controller halves so that the standard controller doubles as the move remote and nunchuck.
maybe a blending of the detachable controller halves and that wiimote 2.0 concept I came up with before Wii U reveal 1+ years ago.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ThePerm on October 13, 2012, 05:38:37 PM
if you had a fire sword and an ice sword....then it would be kinda badass
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on October 13, 2012, 06:28:13 PM
Sony should reinvent Move to be more of a detachable controller halves so that the standard controller doubles as the move remote and nunchuck.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. The Dualshock 3 can already double as a "nunchuk" for the Move if you don't have a Nav controller, and it's not generally thought to be a pleasant experience.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 13, 2012, 06:52:41 PM
Take the split controller concept:
(http://i.imgur.com/lY7fe.jpg)
and merge with the idea of Move (add the track-able lights), but not those loli-pops, more like my idea which uses LED strips. (http://i51.tinypic.com/14v2ja.jpg)(http://i56.tinypic.com/mlov4n.jpg)
to create a new dual purposed controller that does both, without alienating either.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on October 14, 2012, 12:23:44 PM
Frankly, that looks and sounds like a terribe controller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on October 14, 2012, 01:24:17 PM
Frankly, that looks and sounds like a terribe controller.
Which one? The Wiimote 2.0 concept? or the PS4 GlowShock?
If it's the Wiimote 2.0..... then what Tendoboy said
If it's the PS4 GlowShock... Well, the idea is intended to take advantage of the camera (PSEye) that is watching you and the ability to lookandbe used like a regular controller (and not a Dildo-pop) whether being tracked or not.
Best of both worlds.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on October 14, 2012, 03:59:07 PM
I think to get the PS4 Glowshock to work it would have to be more ergonomic after its been split. So it would looks more like how the Move wands are right now except they can be connected together to form a more conventional controller. Down side, its going to look ugly.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on October 14, 2012, 09:01:28 PM
I don't think Sony would change their controller that much to make it detachable. Last time they tried they botched it; everyone hated it; and we got stuck with the same old form factor.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on October 14, 2012, 10:59:13 PM
I don't think Sony would change their controller that much to make it detachable. Last time they tried they botched it; everyone hated it; and we got stuck with the same old form factor.
Sony kept the same DualShock design for nostalgia reasons, the same reason why they made the Vita look exactly like a PSP.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 14, 2012, 11:14:24 PM
remember the boomerang
(http://i.imgur.com/URexN.jpg)
Sony almost tried something different.... until enthusiast/journalist opinion helped change their mind.
With MS supposedly doubling down on Kinect, Nintendo integrating the screen into their next controller and Sony having already placed their eggs in the Move basket, they might be ready to take it a step further and turn Move into a traditional controller so that everyone is using it, even when they aren't.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on October 15, 2012, 03:39:19 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if DualShock3 controllers will be compatible with the PS4. The same happened with DS1 for PS2 and with an adapter, you can use DS1/DS2 controllers on the PS3.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on October 15, 2012, 10:36:22 PM
The boomerang controller was sweet. Suprised they never released as an optional controller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Evan_B on October 16, 2012, 03:42:16 AM
Kind of off-topic, but Super Mario Sunshine features some of the best rumble-integration ever. Slight rumble from hopping through puddles, using FLUDD, and other examples- that's the perfect definition of immersion.
Now, I don't really agree with temperature as a gimmick, but I didn't really believe in rumble until SMS.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on October 16, 2012, 09:10:37 AM
lol First off I think the new store looks more user friendly. That being said I've seen this design convention before. *looks down at phone* Yep. Congratulations Sony, you just made a Metro App.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on October 16, 2012, 07:42:24 PM
lol First off I think the new store looks more user friendly. That being said I've seen this design convention before. *looks down at phone* Yep. Congratulations Sony, you just made a Metro App.
Now I'm thinking of the Xbox 360's "Metro" dashboard. I wonder if Sony will use this design for the PS4's menu?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on October 17, 2012, 09:11:22 AM
If they. Dont want to be sued they wont.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on October 17, 2012, 06:07:58 PM
and the consequences it may have on Sony and video gaming in general. The hack itself could not have come at a worst time, as in the holiday season. The time where all the big name titles come out like Black Ops 2 and Assassins Creed 3.
This doesn't just put a dent in to Sony's profits, but also Microsoft and Nintendo. For people who own both PS3, 360 and Wii U, there would be no need to buy either versions of a multiplatform game when it could be easily pirated on PS3.
The trust that publishers and developers have with Sony will be greatly damaged. Who's going to foot the bill for all those that potentially lost profit? Will they be able to trust in the PS4? or even the Vita?
Choosing to go multiplatform with a game may not be a good decision any more if one of the consoles could be compromised at any time resulting in lost profits from all other console versions.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on October 30, 2012, 07:09:15 AM
The people who pirate their consoles are a drop in the bucket.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 01, 2012, 09:47:49 PM
New PS4/Orbis news today http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_details_playstation_4/
Quote
Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it’s housed in a normal PC case.
There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a “modified PC,” and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers “next summer”. [...] Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD’s A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.
PS4′s APU was described today as a “derivative” of existing A10 hardware. The hardware is “based on A10 system and base platform”.
The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D with “no problem,” to create a machine that’s powerful enough for “today and tomorrow’s market”.
The dev kits have “either 8Gb or 16Gb of RAM. Deduce from that what you will.”
The hardware is not being made in Japan, it was said.
When asked if PS4 will have an optical drive, specifically Blu-ray, our source responded: “Of course it has.” We’ve been told the hard drive will be 256Gb “as standard,” but it’s not clear if it’ll be a normal HDD or a solid state drive.
We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.
The machine has WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. Our source said the was “no difference” between PlayStation 3 and Orbis input/output.
Expected to be officially announced before E3 2013. Probably anywhere from 4-8GB of RAM in the retail unit BluRay drive, but probably not any built-in PS3 BC (due to AMD GPU). sounds like six-axis/move controllers will still work with the system.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 01, 2012, 10:32:20 PM
Wait...how is that going to be affordable?
If it is actually launching Nov. 2013...that does not sound like a cheap system at all...it sounds like if Sony is going to be using quality RAM, and parts...to be very expensive. Easily costing over $400.00 Maybe Sony doesn't want to make a profit from it? I dunno.
The future proofing the system is a great idea, as if they deliver this system could easily last 8-10 years...but geez, I dunno if I want to spend that much money for it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 01, 2012, 10:51:14 PM
You won't have to 4 years after launch. ;)
partially because you will be able to buy a Wii U 2 by then anyways
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on November 01, 2012, 11:05:31 PM
If it is actually launching Nov. 2013...that does not sound like a cheap system at all...it sounds like if Sony is going to be using quality RAM, and parts...to be very expensive. Easily costing over $400.00 Maybe Sony doesn't want to make a profit from it? I dunno.
The future proofing the system is a great idea, as if they deliver this system could easily last 8-10 years...but geez, I dunno if I want to spend that much money for it.
They look to be using closer to off the shelf stuff factor in a year or so for launch. I could see it come out for a relatively good price. 1080p60 in 3D would definitely be what I was shooting for as well.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 01, 2012, 11:10:41 PM
Using off the shelf stuff is more expensive though, it is part of what prevented Microsoft from making a profit on Xbox.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on November 02, 2012, 09:11:54 AM
So the PS4 is a PS3 V2. I think I've heard this story before.
A rumour a while back said that Sony was aiming for 4K displays. 1080p isn't that hard anymore, but 4K is just silly.
You need something to be able to drive the sales of those displays. Its not going to be TV services (Who are still struggling just to reach the level of Over the Air now...)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on November 02, 2012, 02:40:51 PM
So the PS4 is a PS3 V2. I think I've heard this story before.
A rumour a while back said that Sony was aiming for 4K displays. 1080p isn't that hard anymore, but 4K is just silly.
They may have decided that 4K being mainstream is still another 4-5 years away and didn't want to pull another PS3 just to try and sell tvs.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 02, 2012, 03:19:14 PM
No PS3 BC? **** you Sony. I'm guessing this also applies to PSN content. But the Vita can play digital PSP games, despite using different hardware.
If this is true, then Sony is essentially throwing away all the hard work they've done on PSN to start from scratch.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 02, 2012, 03:23:49 PM
The Vita's powerful enough to emulate the PSP; the PS4 will almost certainly not be powerful enough to emulate the PS3, which I could see becoming the new Saturn in that it will be really hard to emulate given the way it was designed. On the plus side, we may see full PS2 compatibility, since it will likely be powerful enough for that.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on November 02, 2012, 03:31:54 PM
Harsh. Backwards compatibility is nice and all, but it always struck me as a bonus more than anything. I could definitely live without it. I understand the value side of it. However, I buy new hardware to play its own games.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 02, 2012, 03:43:11 PM
I would like to carry over all the games I purchased over to the new system. Otherwise all that money spent has gone to waste (particularly the digital content).
If the Wii U can run Wii games, then surely the PS3 and PS4 can run PS2 games (the PS3 can through "PS2 Classics"). The Vita can easily run emulated PSP games, and the PS3 is way more powerful than that, so it shouldn't have any problems running emulated PS2 games.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 02, 2012, 03:53:21 PM
The PS3 isn't as much more powerful than the Vita as the PS2 is than the PSP. And Sony probably could do PS2 emulation right on PS3 if they had any to desire to, which they won't as long as they're able to sell collections of barely updated PS2 games for $40.
I'm pretty sure the Wii U uses the same architecture as the Wii (and GameCube), just with much better specs. It can run Wii games the same way your PC can run games from 20 years ago.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on November 02, 2012, 03:58:31 PM
... I'm pretty sure the Wii U uses the same architecture as the Wii (and GameCube), just with much better specs. It can run Wii games the same way your PC can run games from 20 years ago.
Stubborn unwillingness by Corporations to move to better Computer Architectures?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Caliban on November 02, 2012, 04:45:33 PM
This still doesn't preclude that Sony's going the streaming route.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 02, 2012, 07:49:38 PM
tendo, how is your money going to waste if a system doesn't have BC? It is not like your current system will stop functioning when the new one comes out. It's like how someone with a PS2 can still play PS2 games even though most PS3's can't play PS2 games. BC is a bonus only.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on November 02, 2012, 10:18:10 PM
tendo, how is your money going to waste if a system doesn't have BC? It is not like your current system will stop functioning when the new one comes out. It's like how someone with a PS2 can still play PS2 games even though most PS3's can't play PS2 games. BC is a bonus only.
I bought my PS3 for BC. Its a Hardware BC one.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 03, 2012, 12:04:12 AM
From the train of thought on the side of the tracks TJ doesn't walk on....
Some people buy the new system to replace the old system, not buy a new system to sit beside the old one.
When you bought a Bluray player, you probably didn't leave the DVD player hooked up too. I'm sure you disconnected it and put it in a box (or moved it to some other room you don't frequent often for movie viewing pleasure). I'm also sure you expected the DVD's you already purchased to work in your new Bluray player since it also accepts disc based media and claims to play movies.
Doesn't seem too far fetched to expect the new system, in this day and age, that accepts the same Bluray disc media, to play the old Bluray Disc media too. Seems very logical to me actually.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 03, 2012, 12:08:03 AM
When people bought DVD players, they realized they couldn't play their old VHS tapes (yes I know they made VHD/DVD combo players), same with cassettes and CDs. Hell, BC for games is a relatively new thing. I am just saying that people can't bitch about not being able to play their own games, because they don't have to get rid of their old system.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 03, 2012, 12:43:21 AM
When people bought DVD players, they realized they couldn't play their old VHS tapes (yes I know they made VHD/DVD combo players), same with cassettes and CDs. Hell, BC for games is a relatively new thing. I am just saying that people can't bitch about not being able to play their own games, because they don't have to get rid of their old system.
Different formats. bad example. PS3 -> PS4 is on the exact same Bluray format that may not be BC for unobvious reasons.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on November 03, 2012, 06:01:05 AM
I do wonder about Sony's version of the word "affordable". I'm sure they've learnt their lesson with the PS3 and they just won't expect 3rd party support so they'll probably keep the specs fairly decent.
With the amount of devkit memory and the comment about seamlessly going in and out of a game to do stuff feels like they are going down the route of the home entertainment hub. If they do then I would expect it to be paired with some motion controller (hot+cold wand).
I would think its impossible to emulate backwards compatibility given how weird the cell CPU is. They would certainly need a hardware solution, but keeping costs down is a priority.
The specs and comments from that article are confirming many of my speculations on next gen hardware/strategy.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Evan_B on November 03, 2012, 02:04:41 PM
There's only one website actually discussing these PS4 details. I highly doubt their validity.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on November 05, 2012, 05:08:43 PM
There's only one website actually discussing these PS4 details. I highly doubt their validity.
Are you talking about this site? We're discussing it. :P
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ThePerm on November 23, 2012, 07:15:14 PM
I'm with TJ on this one. It's just wasteful to get rid of your old system, at the same time its (not quite)hoarding to keep your old system and old games. If you have a system though you can't complain about the lack of backward compatibility, whats the bene-fit of having backward compatibility if you already have a device that plays the old stuff? Then again it is old stuff :) why bother?
me thinks Sony will release a $800 console. Microsoft will release a console around Wii U's current price, but will benefit from coming out a year later. Maybe March of 2014 the Wii U's price will drop.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on November 23, 2012, 07:58:46 PM
Why bother if it's old stuff? Well, if you want to play those games again you might as well keep them. You're only a hoarder if you're keeping useless crap.
Is my old SNES and copy of Earthbound useless? There is no other legal way to play it. And with videogames you can't rely on re-releases to not have inaccurate emulation or modern changes that mess up the balance of the game.
But if I own the old system, I don't really care about backwards compatibility. The GBA was the only time I really used the feature because I never owned any previous Game Boy.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ThePerm on November 24, 2012, 01:51:16 AM
I was highlighting the dichotomy of dueling material philosophies, in reality I own a virtual boy that I don't even know if it works. It looks great on my shelf though.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 24, 2012, 07:52:15 PM
It's more convenient to have one device to play your old and new games on.
Case in point: - PS2 with PS1 compatibility - PS3 with its PS Classics titles - GBA with Game Boy compatibility - 3DS with DS compatibility - Wii with its Virtual Console service - Wii U with its "Wii Mode" feature
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 24, 2012, 08:01:25 PM
It seems the PS Orbis rumors are ramping up lately. Sony may use a AMD-designed GPU based on the A10 series. The console's UI will be much more fluid than the XMB, and will allow for simultaneous multitasking (Example: download content from the PS Store without leaving the game). PS Move will be packed with each console. The console will have about 8GB of RAM and will have 256GB of storage as standard.
I still like the Xbox 720 rumors more, simply because Microsoft is tying everything into a complete ecosystem (Windows, Kinect, and Xbox).
Sources: Various websites found through Google News
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ThePerm on November 24, 2012, 08:35:36 PM
but not having it isn't so inconvenient that it would cause a beheading?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 24, 2012, 09:53:41 PM
Is Sony even financially ready to market a PS4? Their credit rating is now classified as junk status. Their various other divisions are bleeding money (TV especially), and the company as a whole is in deep debt. They made a little profit on the PS3, but the development (and subsequent poor sales) of the Vita sunk them back in.
As we all know, Microsoft lost billions on the Xbox, but their Windows and Office divisions make up that lost profit. Sony doesn't have that luxury right now.
I know about all the rumors about PS4 devkits and hardware specs, but Sony can't take any more chances with making cutting-edge hardware. They just can't afford the potential losses if the console fails like the Vita.
Is Sony really in trouble, or is all of this talk overblown?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on November 24, 2012, 10:33:06 PM
They weren't in deep **** before their credit rating dropped. It's not the end of the world for them, but it's definitely a kick to the balls. They're in a rough spot, but they can climb out.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 24, 2012, 11:55:23 PM
Is Sony even financially ready to market a PS4? Their credit rating is now classified as junk status. Their various other divisions are bleeding money (TV especially), and the company as a whole is in deep debt. They made a little profit on the PS3, but the development (and subsequent poor sales) of the Vita sunk them back in.
I'm pretty sure Sony was never anywhere neat a profit, small or not, when it comes to PS3.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 25, 2012, 12:01:42 AM
Is Sony even financially ready to market a PS4? Their credit rating is now classified as junk status. Their various other divisions are bleeding money (TV especially), and the company as a whole is in deep debt. They made a little profit on the PS3, but the development (and subsequent poor sales) of the Vita sunk them back in.
I'm pretty sure Sony was never anywhere neat a profit, small or not, when it comes to PS3.
Blu-ray players are really cheap now, the CELL processor has been downsized significantly over the years, and the console itself is now selling with a 250 GB or 500 GB hard drive (which is standard in most computers).
How are they not making a profit by now?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 25, 2012, 12:33:21 AM
They dug a rather LARGE hole. and any gains they make now are only filling in that hole. They have yet to see any sunlight with their hefty loss of investment with PS3.
And since you don't seem to know the history, Sony basically wiped out all their PS2 profits with the PS3. PS3 was a huge financial failure that turned around far too late. Sony sacrificed PS3 profitability to push Blu-ray, which probably wasn't worth it in the short term if it doesn't somehow payoff in the long term.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 25, 2012, 12:38:58 AM
They dug a rather LARGE hole. and any gains they make now are only filling in that hole. They have yet to see any sunlight with their hefty loss of investment with PS3.
And since you don't seem to know the history, Sony basically wiped out all their PS2 profits with the PS3. PS3 was a huge financial failure that turned around far too late. Sony sacrificed PS3 profitability to push Blu-ray, which probably wasn't worth it in the short term if it doesn't somehow payoff in the long term.
Blu-ray didn't pay off? It enabled many developers to build larger games due to the disc's larger capacity. And we can also have multiple games stored on a single disc (the "HD Collections").
Also, Nintendo is using a variant of Blu-ray in the Wii U, and the next Xbox is rumored to be using it as well.
So it may not have paid off for Sony (financially), but for the movie and gaming industry as a whole, it's proven its worth.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 25, 2012, 12:42:21 AM
Sony makes no money from Wii U discs. And the industry was moving to larger discs anyways (see HD DVD, which is the same size as Wii U discs). All that happened is that Sony's format won out over HD DVD. And if it doesn't help Sony, then it doesn't matter if the gaming and movie industries adopt it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 25, 2012, 12:46:34 AM
Sony makes no money from Wii U discs. And the industry was moving to larger discs anyways (see HD DVD, which is the same size as Wii U discs). All that happened is that Sony's format won out over HD DVD. And if it doesn't help Sony, then it doesn't matter if the gaming and movie industries adopt it.
I never said Sony makes money from Blu-ray discs. They simply helped create the format with a bunch of other companies in the "Blu-ray Disc Association". The format itself is beneficial to the movie and gaming industries because now games can be larger, and multiple movies can be put on a single disc.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 25, 2012, 12:48:41 AM
We are talking about Sony. let's not move the lines on the field just so you can pretend to make a play.
Sony gets a small share of the Bluray pie yet they sacrificed a lot to make it the winning format. They are not the majority patent holder and the Bluray consortium doesn't make a cent off of Nintendo's custom blue laser disc format.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Kytim89 on November 25, 2012, 01:25:36 AM
We are talking about Sony. let's not move the lines on the field just so you can pretend to make a play.
Sony gets a small share of the Bluray pie yet they sacrificed a lot to make it the winning format. They are not the majority patent holder and the Bluray consortium doesn't make a cent off of Nintendo's custom blue laser disc format.
Sony's biggest issue is their arrogance. They simply do not know how to make weaker or non-advanced game consoles. The Vita does not give me any hope concerning the PS4. I think that Sony is going to be stupid enough to try and be the most powerful home console again despite the record sales loses they have incurred. Again, the fact that the Vita is recieving price cuts from other people besides Sony does not look good on their part, nor does the fact that Sony can't lower the price themselves and still make a profit. By this time next year Sony will be bankrupted and out of the game, or a radically different company with a new boss running the show.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on November 25, 2012, 11:46:04 AM
Sony knows that they can't afford to go all out on the PS4. Being the most advanced console didn't really help them them gen. The best strategy for them is to take a small loss that could be made up for with software.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on November 25, 2012, 12:05:42 PM
Sony's biggest issue is their arrogance. They simply do not know how to make weaker or non-advanced game consoles.
At this point, it's less arrogance (I think PS3 humbled them to the point where they stripped it of tons of extraneous functionality just to get it to a more acceptable MSRP) and more poor management. Any company can make weaker hardware. That's not the problem. It's that Sony somehow still thinks they can beat Nintendo by offering more advanced hardware. It's not necessarily arrogance. It's poor strategizing especially considering it hasn't worked twice... going on thrice. One would think they would have learned from PSP and PS3, but they just keep dipping their hands in the fire and wondering why it hurts. I honestly think Vita would be performing far better if it was only slightly more powerful than 3DS, but cheaper. Nintendo had trouble selling a $250 handheld in a market they've dominated for over 20 years. Most people just don't want to spend that much on a handheld. Imagine if it was only 2-3 times more powerful than PSP, but Sony launched at $170. That's an $80 difference or 2 games. Even if they took a loss on hardware at $170 (which is a loss whether the hardware is sold), they start to make it back on software with hardware that is much more attractive to consumers. It just puts them in a better position.
Quote
By this time next year Sony will be bankrupted and out of the game, or a radically different company with a new boss running the show.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. I wouldn't go as far as bankrupt. PSFour hardware will outperform Wii U just due to the passage of time. Sony would actually have to go out of their way to release a console that's worse performance wise than Wii U. They shouldn't even worry about that. If Sony even takes a loss (I've read rumors that they're looking at not... at all), I highly doubt it would be a very large one.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 25, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: Adrock
Sony would actually have to go out of their way to release a console that's worse performance wise than Wii U.
But that's exactly what Nintendo did with the Wii U. It's barely more powerful than an Xbox 360.
Oh the irony. :)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on November 25, 2012, 01:29:25 PM
Wii U is far more powerful than Xbox 360, not "barely".
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: lolmonade on November 26, 2012, 07:32:45 PM
I hope Sony does well with their next console. The Playstation consoles have provided me with some of the most compelling game experiences over the last decade, and I seem to be able to find good games in any genre on their systems.
The problem is at this time, I can't see myself getting the PS4/Orbis at launch, especially given that I have a Wii U. Graphics beyond what this current generation have shown haven't been a compelling enough feature alone to get me to buy a new console.
Of course, hardly anything has been mentioned about PS3's successor, so maybe I just don't know of what is supposed to be a system seller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on November 26, 2012, 11:37:21 PM
I hear PS4 will have an AMD A10 CPU with integrated GPU? Good but not great. Should be able to sell it under $400.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 27, 2012, 01:30:36 AM
Seriously, the Wii has like 3X as much ram as the 360. So it is a very powerful system.
Let's just drop this insane the Wii U is not powerful crap...because it is.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 27, 2012, 02:04:01 AM
Wii U is far more powerful than Xbox 360, not "barely".
According to NeoGAF, the CPU is slower than the Xbox 360's (less threads per core). That's the Wii U's only weakness. Everything else is great, especially the 2 GB of RAM and the large disc capacity (22 GB).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on November 27, 2012, 04:50:51 AM
According to NeoGAF, the CPU is slower than the Xbox 360's (less threads per core). That's the Wii U's only weakness. Everything else is great, especially the 2 GB of RAM and the large disc capacity (22 GB).
So this NeoGAF guy, what's his source?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on November 27, 2012, 07:34:35 AM
Depends on who tendoboy is referring to, but he's allergic to posting actual links to info. SHARE WITH THE REST OF THE CLASS, TENDOBOY!! :)
In all seriousness, there are a few devs and just people who know people on neogaf. Ideaman is known to have actual info there. I only started lurking neogaf recently so I don't remember all of their names.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 30, 2012, 10:24:19 PM
and merge with the idea of Move (add the track-able lights), but not those loli-pops, more like my idea which uses LED strips. (http://i51.tinypic.com/14v2ja.jpg)(http://i56.tinypic.com/mlov4n.jpg)
to create a new dual purposed controller that does both, without alienating either.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: lolmonade on November 30, 2012, 11:08:36 PM
That's a really good idea, actually. I think Sony's biggest problem with the Move was that it wasn't an out of the box experience. If they include a controller like that bundled with the system, it'll be a core option of the system for everyone that owns it.
It may look silly with the two lollipops, but move coming with every system sold would definitely increase the possibility of developers utilizing it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on December 01, 2012, 12:14:33 AM
Couldn't they do it without the bubbles somehow? Or at least something smaller?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on December 01, 2012, 12:38:25 PM
Looks hilariously stupid. But practical.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on December 01, 2012, 01:45:35 PM
Rather just have this with some detachable middle part.
So you guys think the PS4 is going to end up launching next year. I mean Sony has quite a big line up for the PS3 next year.
Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time God of War: Ascension The Last of Us Beyond: Two Souls The Last Guardian (lol) Puppeteer Until Dawn
As well as some PSN stuff which really shouldn't factor seeing as it should be cross compatiable with next gen.
I'm also wondering what the PS4 means for crossplay with the vita. It makes sense for an older system like the PS3 where you want to promote both. But at a launch of a new system you want to push the new Next Gen exclusive IPs.
With that I'm intrested in what sony plans to do for new IP.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Shaymin on December 01, 2012, 02:27:45 PM
Sony won't launch until Microsoft does (in NA/EU).
Microsoft's not launching until 2014.
Do the math.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 01, 2012, 04:54:21 PM
Sony won't launch until Microsoft does (in NA/EU).
Microsoft's not launching until 2014.
Do the math.
All the recent rumors say Microsoft will launch by the end of 2013.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on December 01, 2012, 05:42:52 PM
I dunno man. Beyond one rumor I've heard everything is pretty much pointing too a next year release for the 720.
This year's E3 had to pretty indicative of what's coming. Look at the annoucments from first party stuff microsoft had this E3.
Halo 4 (out) Forza Horizon (out) Fable the Journey (out) Nike+ kinect (out) Dance central 3 (out)
Usually games are shown at E3 even though they won't hit the fall of the next year. Microsoft didn't show any of that. The three other spotlight first party titles they showed (Ascend, Matter, Lococycle) are all xbla and are set for a spring release.
Development news on ryse has gone silent with the expections of it losing kinect and rumored to have gone next gen.
So far the only real big content microsoft has for next year are gears of war judgement and Halo 4: spartan ops season 2 (if that counts).
Most of microsoft's first party development are confrimed to be working on next genration content.
Activsion has implied that a new console is launching next year.
It could fall into 2013 but I'm pretty sure they want what they apple, and google all had to an extent this year. They want the next generation of the surface, the surface phone, the next xbox, and the windows blue updates to hit pretty close to each other.
I wonder if Sony will add something more user friendly if they decide to revamp home for its next console. It would be cool to see sackboy and his world become the basis for home.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on December 01, 2012, 06:40:43 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Microsoft has said nothing about Durango and their biggest IP (Halo) released this year. I wonder what would make that launch worthwhile. Same with Sony. They've also said nothing about Orbis and their 2 biggest teams are releasing PS3 titles in early-mid 2013.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on December 01, 2012, 07:51:27 PM
I'm not sure why people assume that one needs to have a big title or established IP at launch. If anything that's the time to have new IP at the forefront. We all know that there will be a Halo, Zelda, and Resistance down the line, but at launch is where the new IP should be showcased.
Halo 5 is at least at 2015 game at best. Other than more Spartan Ops, we might see another Halo side game in 2014 (but will probably be download only)
Microsoft Studios 360 launch titles Kameo: Power of the elements Perfect Dark Zero Project Gotham Racing 3
Sony Computer Entertainment PS3 launch titles
Genji: Days of the blade Resistance: Fall of Men
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on December 01, 2012, 08:50:29 PM
Needs? No. Is beneficial? Certainly.
A great new IP works, but why wouldn't a company want to launch with a proven system seller? Based on releases, neither Sony nor Microsoft will have titles ready from their best teams next year.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 01, 2012, 09:58:05 PM
Supply is limited at launch. you wouldn't want to limit the sales of a proven system seller by not having enough system available for it to sell.
Which is why you would launch with new IP to a content starved early-adoption crowd who are more likely to give a new IP a try.
Save the system seller for when there is a built-up audience ready and waiting for it's release.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on December 01, 2012, 10:57:04 PM
Why would you save a system seller for when you have an audience already? That's counterproductive as it defeats the purpose of it selling system. That big title makes it that much easier to continue selling out new shipments. The people who want that game or series will seek out consoles to play it.
I wouldn't have bought a Wii U without New Super Mario Bros. U because while Nintendo Land is a nice game, I sure as hell wouldn't have bought an entire console for it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on December 01, 2012, 11:54:05 PM
Well looking at the time table most should have launch games ready even if they are a little rushed.
Polyphony has probably gone next gen and vita at this point
SCE Japan is working on PSN and PS3 content. The Last Guardian might as well be a PS4 game at this point.
Naughty Dog has had a 2nd team working on the Last of US for two years now. Its safe to assume that the Uncharted 3 team is working on something new.
SuckerPunch is rumored to be working on a new IP.
SCE San Deigo is probably working on a next gen version of MLB for the season after the PS4 release.
SCE Santa Monica is finishing up the new God of War.
Sony Bend is prett much a handheld only studios now.
MediaMolecule is making Tearaway for Vita and a new IP.
SCE Cambridge is making Killzone Vita.
Guerilla Games is most likely working on the next gen killzone.
Evolution Studios is hopefully working on the next Wipeout.
On the microsoft side of things.
343i just completed Halo 4. Now they're working on Halo 5 and Spartan ops alongside Halo 4 multi player.
Good Science Studios has become a support studio for back end stuff.
Turn 10 is probably in devlopment of Forza 5.
Twisted Pixel has two teams. One is working on lococycle, while the other's project hasn't been announced.
Lionhead Studios was hiring for a next gen MMO like game which is probably Fable IV.
Rare is working on at least three games. A kinect title, a core game, and a windows 8 game.
Microsoft studios london which just opened is working on windows 8 and windows phone.
Press play is working on either XBLA or windows 8/phone games, maybe even both.
Soho Productions are working on those kinect TV games.
Black Tusk Studios is working on microsoft's next big IP. Rumored to be a horror fps powered by unreal 4.
Microsoft studios Victoria is still in its building stages.
Bigpark is probably working on something kinect related.
Ryse is still in devlopment and could be a launch title to showcase the lastest cry engine and Kinect 2.0 stuff. Game has moved development studios (to the main crytek studio) and is rumored to be ditching heavy reliance on kinect.
Alan Wake 2 is in development by Remedy. I hear American Nightmare (haven't beat it yet) teases it as well there's an ARG style blog pretty much screaming lead up to a new Alan Wake game.
Ruffian Games are working on something and I remember someone on gaf who works their talking about proto typing something for microsoft.
I personally don't think you need a big well known series at launch for a new console. There's a difference between a well known IP such as a mario or zelda or a hot new IP (like wii sports and Halo were once upon a time.
The problem is we don't think of something as a system seller until we have it in our hands in the first place.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 01, 2012, 11:55:34 PM
But if you have a game that is likely to sell 5 million copies, but you only have 650k consoles at launch, why would you limit a potential 5 million seller to 650k and hope it has long legs as new systems get pushed to market over the next few months?
Instead you drop the new IP and let it get established with a growing console base, and then when you have your install base built up with plenty of extra consoles in the pipeline, you drop your system seller to keep the momentum going and push the system to all those that weren't early adopters to the limited launch supply..
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: oohhboy on December 02, 2012, 01:36:55 AM
That would be true to a certain extent for a non-nintendo games. Non-nintendo games generally are very front loaded and by design encouraged to be this way due to a multiple of factors like perceived piracy, second hand sales, sequel plans and DLC. This means the big sellers would get choked by the limited consoles and increase the risk of a bomb if the word of mouth remotely goes bad.
Launch day is a very good time for new IPs because you now have a very hungry and captive audience who will buy just about anything just to have something to play. I would know, I brought Luigi's Mansion for the GC on lanch day. Had I known it was so short I wouldn't have brought it, at least not at that price since it was fun while it lasted.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on December 02, 2012, 08:11:23 AM
But if you have a game that is likely to sell 5 million copies, but you only have 650k consoles at launch, why would you limit a potential 5 million seller to 650k and hope it has long legs as new systems get pushed to market over the next few months?
Can you really call a game a system seller if sales only trickle after the launch shipment? You don't hope it has long legs. A real system seller does have long legs. People won't stop wanting Halo games just because they can't get the console. They'll wait until they can get one.
Quote
Instead you drop the new IP and let it get established with a growing console base, and then when you have your install base built up with plenty of extra consoles in the pipeline, you drop your system seller to keep the momentum going and push the system to all those that weren't early adopters to the limited launch supply..
That's assuming it gets established. I'm not saying, "Avoid new IPs." I agree with your sentiment. They should be there at launch though I think having an established IP as well is beneficial. I never wouldn't have bought ZombiU if NSMBU wasn't also available, but ZombiU certainly made the entire purchase more worthwhile.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 02, 2012, 11:02:42 AM
But if you have a game that is likely to sell 5 million copies, but you only have 650k consoles at launch, why would you limit a potential 5 million seller to 650k and hope it has long legs as new systems get pushed to market over the next few months?
Can you really call a game a system seller if sales only trickle after the launch shipment? You don't hope it has long legs. A real system seller does have long legs. People won't stop wanting Halo games just because they can't get the console. They'll wait until they can get one.
The Problem is, like was said before me, lots of Non-Nintendo games are VERY front loaded ans sell 60+% of their total in the first few weeks/month. If there aren't enough systems available for it to reach it's potential at launch, then it runs the risk of becoming old news as other new titles come out. It's best to just wait till the install base has enough room for the game to stretch it's legs at release.
You want that atomic bomb explosion, not the ether slow burn.
Announce the established game is coming, but release with the new IP. it's a proven tactic. it works. and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on December 02, 2012, 02:15:41 PM
Launching with an established IP is a proven tactic as well. I know you said, "lots of Non-Nintendo games are VERY front loaded" and I don't disagree. My point is that that's not true of every title (hence "lots" not "every") and I think a Halo is one of those series with long legs.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. However, I have a question for you: who will make these new IPs for Sony and Microsoft if they were to launch next year? That's pretty much where this discussion began. Sony and Microsoft have many teams, but it sucks for them that 343 Industries, Naughty Dog, and Sony Santa Monica will likely not have titles ready for launch next year whether they're new or established. That's why I have doubts that either will launch in 2013. Well, I suppose Sony can delay The Last of Us and move development to Orbis (if they haven't already), but that sure would suck for me as a PS3 owner.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on December 02, 2012, 03:48:57 PM
Here's the problem with your assesment. The PS3 and 360 didn't launch with any established Ips. (Well the 360 had perfect dark zero)
Even factoring in a 2014 launch given previous time tables
It took four years between God of war 3 and Ascension. Four years for Halo 4 since starting development in 2009.
The Last of Us by the uncharted 2 team also took about four years.
Rare is probably working on a few games that will probably be rushed for a next year launch. (To be fair Rare only Co-developed Kinect sports 2 with BigPark).
Rare could have Kinect Sports 3 and something like a new Kameo.
Black Tusk Studio's IP is shaping up for a next year release as well.
Before the studio was closed the wipeout guys were supposed to be working on a next gen wipeout. A lot of people from the studio were moved to evolution so theirs hope left.
Then you have a slew of games that will probably also be on next gen consoles. (Star Wars 1313, Watchdogs, Rainbow Six the Patroits, Fortnite)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 09:49:15 AM
CVG Rumor: Sony to abandon DualShock design for PS4, unveiling PS4 in weeks
A senior games studio source working on an upcoming Sony game says the new system's controller has undergone numerous iterations, few of which resemble the DualShock build that has become synonymous with PlayStation.
Experiments within Sony's R&D department are thought to have been extensive. Versions of the new PS4 pad include biometric sensors on the grips and an LCD touch screen, the development source claimed.
A second source, working in a separate part of the industry but still connected to Sony, said PlayStation engineers are "trying to emulate the same user interface philosophies as the PS Vita". This is likely a reference to the touch-screen capabilities of the PlayStation handheld, and a suggestion that Sony will tightly integrate its portable and home systems.
The new console - codenamed Orbis - will be revealed in a matter of weeks, not months.
Sony has declined to comment.
guessing where going to see something during the PlayStation event next month.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on January 18, 2013, 10:55:16 AM
From what I've heard and seen of the Vita interface I like to keep my XMB. Also I will believe they will change from the dualshock when its in my hands. Remember the PS3 was suppose to have a different controller as well.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 11:01:30 AM
There have been ton of hints that the dual shock 4 is going to be a new design. The boomer age controller was still just a longer and more rounded dual shock.
Think they're going to get rid of x,b for something similar to the Vita OS and the PlayStation store redesign.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on January 18, 2013, 11:10:35 AM
There have been ton of hints that the dual shock 4 is going to be a new design. The boomer age controller was still just a longer and more rounded dual shock.
Think they're going to get rid of x,b for something similar to the Vita OS and the PlayStation store redesign.
While I'm one of the few who like the new store over the old. I would like to stick to my XMB interface Thank You. It is a wonderful interface for what I want to use my PS3/PS4 for.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 18, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
From what I've heard and seen of the Vita interface I like to keep my XMB. Also I will believe they will change from the dualshock when its in my hands. Remember the PS3 was suppose to have a different controller as well.
Well, the interface on the Vita's gotten a lot better since they added the ability to use the sticks & buttons in the main menu, but yeah I would prefer keeping the XMB as well.
As for the latest controller rumor, if the next PlayStation doesn't use a Dualshock it had better still be compatible w/ my PS3 Dualshocks for backwards compatibility purposes. And yeah, I'll believe Sony's outright replacing their most popular controller when the thing launches with the console. I find it more likely that Sony will retool the design to fix things like the loose L2/R2 triggers, as well as possibly replacing their Dpad design since I think Nintendo's patent on the Dpad may have expired by then.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on January 18, 2013, 11:26:41 AM
... if the next PlayStation doesn't use a Dualshock it had better still be compatible w/ my PS3 Dualshocks for backwards compatibility purposes. ...
lol Backward Compatibility...
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 11:38:48 AM
PS4 probably won't be backwards compatible. It will probably turn me off of Sony gaming products but that's the reality. Why do you think they bought Gaikai.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Oblivion on January 18, 2013, 11:47:18 AM
... if the next PlayStation doesn't use a Dualshock it had better still be compatible w/ my PS3 Dualshocks for backwards compatibility purposes. ...
lol Backward Compatibility...
I think it'll probably be like the PS3's BC with the PS2: PS3 BC only in the early models, where people generally care about it, and then removed in later models (with the Gaikai streaming taking its place). Sony has said they're still supporting the PS3 through 2015, so I can't imagine they'd just want to cut off that software revenue source from potential PS4 buyers.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 18, 2013, 12:27:46 PM
Moving away from the Dual Shock is a major selling point for me. I always hated that design.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 01:50:14 PM
... if the next PlayStation doesn't use a Dualshock it had better still be compatible w/ my PS3 Dualshocks for backwards compatibility purposes. ...
lol Backward Compatibility...
I think it'll probably be like the PS3's BC with the PS2: PS3 BC only in the early models, where people generally care about it, and then removed in later models (with the Gaikai streaming taking its place). Sony has said they're still supporting the PS3 through 2015, so I can't imagine they'd just want to cut off that software revenue source from potential PS4 buyers.
Digital Foundry does their expectations of what the Orbis is.
Quote
Distilled down to the fundamentals, these are the details we can share about the technological make-up of the next generation PlayStation.
CPU: Eight-core AMD processor running at 1.6GHz
Graphics core: Radeon HD hardware, 18 compute units at 800MHz
Additional hardware: GPU-like Compute module, some resources reserved by the OS
System-on-chip codename: Liverpool
Memory: 4GB GDDR5, 512MB reserved by the OS
Quote
We also have hard data on Orbis's memory set-up. It features 4GB of GDDR5 - the ultra-fast RAM that typically ships with the latest PC graphics cards - with 512MB reserved for the operating system. This is in stark contrast to the much slower DDR3 that Durango will almost certainly ship with. Microsoft looks set to be using an offshoot of eDRAM technology connected to the graphics core to offset the bandwidth issues the use of DDR3 incurs. Volume of RAM is the key element in Durango's favour - there'll be 8GB in total, with a significant amount (two sources we've spoken to suggest 3GB in total) reserved for the OS.
Quote
There'll be a relatively high CPU overhead too, with potentially two cores reserved for the customisable apps Microsoft wants to run in parallel with gameplay. Orbis has no such ambitions and may power past the new Xbox simply because it focuses its resources on out-and-out games power. There's always the possibility that Microsoft has looked at the prior success of Nintendo and its own Kinect and come to the conclusion that chasing after the maximum in raw horsepower isn't the way to win the next console war.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 18, 2013, 03:38:28 PM
Of course Sony would focus on all-out power at the expense of other things. That's worked out so well for them with the PS3 and the Vita.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 18, 2013, 04:06:05 PM
Of course Sony would focus on all-out power at the expense of other things. That's worked out so well for them with the PS3 and the Vita.
I'm not inclined to believe any so-called "leaked" specs on these new machines until they're officially announced. The internet's just been swarming with too many "rumors" and "leaks" from "inside sources" on both next-generation consoles for weeks (if not months) now. It wouldn't surprise me if these specs were true because Sony does have a history of never being able to keep their **** secret, but for now I'm taking all this with a substantial grain of salt.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 04:10:51 PM
From what I've heard and seen of the Vita interface I like to keep my XMB. Also I will believe they will change from the dualshock when its in my hands. Remember the PS3 was suppose to have a different controller as well.
Maybe, but I in a way hope they do have a touchscreen similar to Wii U controller, with support of the PS3 Dualshock controllers, if just because it would make it that more likely for Wii U to have comparable 3rd party support.
And wasn't the only reason the PS3 didn't have the dualshock at first because of a lawsuit claiming they didn't pay for the rights to use it on the Playstation 3? I thought that's the whole reason they included the quasi-motion control in the controller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 18, 2013, 05:08:11 PM
Of course Sony would focus on all-out power at the expense of other things. That's worked out so well for them with the PS3 and the Vita.
How do you figure the vita I'm that when its built on off the shelf parts.
Building a console with off the shelf parts is an even worse idea than what Sony's rumored to be doing here. As a Microsoft fan, you should be more aware of that than anyone after how that blew up in their face.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 06:45:25 PM
I thought you were speaking from a cost perspective.
Man I really don't even cares about the hardware I just want to see the OS and how Microsoft and Sony change XBLA and PSN to match the eshop.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 18, 2013, 08:55:00 PM
I thought you were speaking from a cost perspective.
Man I really don't even cares about the hardware I just want to see the OS and how Microsoft and Sony change XBLA and PSN to match the eshop.
Hopefully none at all, because the eShop kind of blows without a decent fast-access categorization system (plus, the Search function takes way too long to access). Plus, the eShop forces me to dig that damn GamePad out of the bin when I'd rather use just about any other controller on the Wii U.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Oblivion on January 18, 2013, 09:12:49 PM
Out of the bin, eh? I have it right in front of me on the charging cradle at all times. Takes me quite literally one second to pick it up.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 18, 2013, 10:18:39 PM
Well when I said take stuff from the eshop it was more on the back end of things.
For example a lot of developers complain about the process of getting games on xbox live arcade and the process to patch games is pretty expensive.
I can't speak for Sony in this regard but I think Microsoft is going to change their process going from a couple of things.
Microsoft on Windows Phone/8 has at least Twp games made by micro indies in Wordament (http://wordament.com) and Alphajax (http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/store/app/alphajax/204ab97d-3bd3-4aca-8a20-8f20fe536d47).
The guys at Dlala Studios who are working with lift London said that the guys at Microsoft know they have problems to address (http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/Dlala+Studios+news/feature.asp?c=47688)
Quote
Our first real interaction was meeting some of the Windows 8 guys at Develop in July 2012, around a month after our studio was officially formed. I had a chat with a great guy called Andrew Webber, and they seemed really supportive of the indie scene.
Most importantly, they seemed really honest, too.
They acknowledged that Microsoft hadn't shown appreciation towards the little guys in the past and explained that there was a big change coming with Windows 8 and Microsoft's attitudes in general.
That and the Windows Phone and Windows Store's don't have restrictions on patches PR barrier to entry. (Getting your game xbpx live certified is a different thing)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 18, 2013, 11:08:37 PM
And wasn't the only reason the PS3 didn't have the dualshock at first because of a lawsuit claiming they didn't pay for the rights to use it on the Playstation 3? I thought that's the whole reason they included the quasi-motion control in the controller.
It wasn't just claiming, Sony lost the lawsuit and the judge ruled they violated another companies patent. So Sony was forced to license their rumble tech.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on January 18, 2013, 11:54:01 PM
I tend to trust Digital Foundry. If these specs are true, this is going to be very good system, but not the powerhouse some dreamed about. It's not 10x the power of the Wii U.
4gb GDDR5 is crazy fast though. It can't be cheap.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 19, 2013, 12:04:41 AM
From what I've heard and seen of the Vita interface I like to keep my XMB. Also I will believe they will change from the dualshock when its in my hands. Remember the PS3 was suppose to have a different controller as well.
Well, the interface on the Vita's gotten a lot better since they added the ability to use the sticks & buttons in the main menu, but yeah I would prefer keeping the XMB as well.
As for the latest controller rumor, if the next PlayStation doesn't use a Dualshock it had better still be compatible w/ my PS3 Dualshocks for backwards compatibility purposes. And yeah, I'll believe Sony's outright replacing their most popular controller when the thing launches with the console. I find it more likely that Sony will retool the design to fix things like the loose L2/R2 triggers, as well as possibly replacing their Dpad design since I think Nintendo's patent on the Dpad may have expired by then.
popular? they've barely given you an alternative, more like "forced" than popular ;)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on January 19, 2013, 01:44:29 PM
It's popular because it hasn't really changed since it was created, not because people love it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on January 19, 2013, 04:46:09 PM
so the dualshock is popular for the same reason Jay Leno is popular, no one likes it but it's just been around forever with slight tweaks here and there? ;)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on January 19, 2013, 10:50:47 PM
Being successful by not offending anyone? No edge whatsoever? Yes, it is exactly like Leno.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 19, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
Snark all you want, but the Dualshock has been THE Standard for gaming controllers since the PS1, though no doubt that has now shifted to the Xbox 360 Controller design (which even Nintendo has now emulated with the Wii U Pro Controller). And considering its core design is based on the SNES controller (which was THE Standard in its day), I think it's reasonable to assume the controller's been fairly popular. Otherwise, people wouldn't have run from the Boomerang controller when Sony tried to push that on people.
I've given my thoughts on the Dualshock design before so I won't go into it again. But suffice it to say that it's a great general-purpose controller equally adept at pretty much any console genre you throw at it. It doesn't excel at any one play experience like Nintendo or Microsoft might have with their controllers, but at the same time you also can't really throw a console genre at it that it can't handle (which is more than I can say for Nintendo's controller designs).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on January 19, 2013, 11:54:40 PM
Also, the boomerang controller looked ridiculous?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 19, 2013, 11:58:42 PM
No more so than a damn remote control (Wii) or a Trident (N64), IMO. Game Controllers are weird. :P:
(and no, I wasn't fond of the boomerang controller either. Just sayin', we've seen weirder controllers)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: MrPhishfood on January 20, 2013, 12:00:04 AM
The standard 360 controller just isn't child friendly. I know this 12 year old kid who prefers the PS3 because he can't fit his hands around the 360 pad.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on January 20, 2013, 12:01:36 AM
The Wii controller needed to be explained, but it made sense once it was. When you looked at it, you saw something you could easily hold.
The N64 controller, again looked holdable. Even if you couldn't decide how to hold it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Oblivion on January 20, 2013, 12:16:08 AM
The standard 360 controller just isn't child friendly. I know this 12 year old kid who prefers the PS3 because he can't fit his hands around the 360 pad.
Tell that to the millions of little shits on Call of Duty.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 20, 2013, 11:46:34 AM
The standard 360 controller just isn't child friendly. I know this 12 year old kid who prefers the PS3 because he can't fit his hands around the 360 pad.
Tell that to the millions of little shits on Call of Duty.
Maybe that's why they're angry. They shout expletives and racist insults at people all the time because they're frustrated at how big the controller is.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 20, 2013, 12:27:49 PM
Unless you have the hands of a 10 year old (and even they might be fine), I don't see how anyone could think the Xbox 360 controller is too big. The PS3 controller also has that kiddie design with shapes for face buttons.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 20, 2013, 08:27:39 PM
Nevermind. Don't know what happened here.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: lolmonade on January 21, 2013, 07:48:48 PM
Unless you have the hands of a 10 year old (and even they might be fine), I don't see how anyone could think the Xbox 360 controller is too big. The PS3 controller also has that kiddie design with shapes for face buttons.
LOL...yes, because A,B,X,Y are mature buttons for mature gamers.
I could see your point if the playstation buttons were "smiley face", "rabbit", "balloons", and "Elmo", but really? X, O, △, and □ are childish?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2013, 07:57:25 PM
Is there any backstory as to why they chose symbols? I've always wondered...
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 21, 2013, 07:59:15 PM
Yes, using shapes is something you would see on something like Leapster or Playskool. A circle? A triangle? A square?
EasyCure, not sure if true but I heard Sony wanted to make something people of any language could understand.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: lolmonade on January 21, 2013, 08:04:48 PM
Is there any backstory as to why they chose symbols? I've always wondered...
Excerpt from the Sony Controller wikipedia article: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Controller)
Quote
Using the simple geometric shapes of a green triangle, a red circle, a blue cross, and a square to label its action buttons rather than traditionally used letters or numbers, the PlayStation Controller established a trademark which would be incorporated heavily into the PlayStation brand. In an interview with Teiyu Goto, designer of the original Playstation Controller, he explained what the symbols mean: The circle and cross represent "yes" and "no," respectively; the triangle symbolizes a point of view and the square is equated to a sheet of paper there to be used to access menus.
The real reason is probably something closer to not wanting their controller to be completely lifted from the SNES controller conventions, and having symbols instead also is an easy way to have something unique to their brand of video game products.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 21, 2013, 08:07:48 PM
Unless you have the hands of a 10 year old (and even they might be fine), I don't see how anyone could think the Xbox 360 controller is too big. The PS3 controller also has that kiddie design with shapes for face buttons.
LOL...yes, because A,B,X,Y are mature buttons for mature gamers.
I could see your point if the playstation buttons were "smiley face", "rabbit", "balloons", and "Elmo", but really? X, O, △, and □ are childish?
Indeed. I prefer the shape buttons, honestly, as I find them easier to remember associated to face button positions (especially Triangle, a shape that points upward), whereas when I'm playing something like the Classic Controller I always have to remind myself which button is "A" and which is "B" (though I always remember where X and Y are, for some strange reason).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: lolmonade on January 21, 2013, 08:08:45 PM
Yes, using shapes is something you would see on something like Leapster or Playskool. A circle? A triangle? A square?
Yes, and A, B, X, Y are letters you're taught as a child when learning the alphabet. They're both identifiable sets of symbols that more or less anyone would understand. I fail to see how letters are less childish than shapes.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Shaymin on January 21, 2013, 08:17:23 PM
Circle - 1 line X - 2 lines Triangle - 3 lines Square - 4 lines
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 21, 2013, 08:26:24 PM
Yes, using shapes is something you would see on something like Leapster or Playskool. A circle? A triangle? A square?
Yes, and A, B, X, Y are letters you're taught as a child when learning the alphabet. They're both identifiable sets of symbols that more or less anyone would understand. I fail to see how letters are less childish than shapes.
Because we grow up with those letters, especially on controllers. Imagine if your remote control had you using a circle instead of "8", a triangle instead of "4", etc. You would laugh at it and rightly so. I grew up with ABXY (as did most gamers), so I always remember where those buttons are. Aside from the triangle, I frequently have to look down when I use the DualShock controller. It's one of the reasons Sony has always had the worst controller (there are other problems with the DualShock too).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2013, 08:52:54 PM
The real reason is probably something closer to not wanting their controller to be completely lifted from the SNES controller conventions, and having symbols instead also is an easy way to have something unique to their brand of video game products.
That's the only thing I could think of but why not just go with 1, 2, 3, 4? Or other letters even?
The O/X = Yes/No thing I would of never thought of because I don't associate O/X that way. Thinking back to certain games and possibly some game shows, it makes sense now but I never would've thought of that as a kid because it just wasn't common enough. Square is supposed to represent paper thus meaning menus..what? That's just fucking over-thinking it, c'mon.. that can't be real.
Broodwars, thank you; from now on I'll always remember where Triangle is on the dualshock now that you've pointed out it points up. Oh wait, the picture i'm looking at is a bit angled so my perspective makes it seem like it's not pointing up, it's pointing at square instead, or is it pointing at circle?
Granted, if you grew up with either the NES or SNES, ABXY are easy to remember, but circle, square, x, triangle are just.. odd. To this day I can't memorize that thing. At least on Xbox I can remember to flip 'em, so even if the game or another person tell me to "press A!" I know to hit B. The second you give me a dualshock though, 20+ years of controller use goes out the window; no matter how many times I use the damn thing.
The only other controller to trip me up so bad was the Saturn controller, but there the problem either stemmed from my fingers not being used to the extra buttons, thus fumbling if I had to jump from A to Z - or the fact that my thumbs rested easier on BC/YZ and had to stretch out for X and A buttons (I still had kid hands back then).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 21, 2013, 08:56:02 PM
The controller that always used to throw me was the damn 6-button Sega Genesis controller, with all the buttons just lined up like that on 2 lines.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 21, 2013, 09:05:52 PM
I think developers didn't like it either since most Genesis games only used the 3 buttons that the default controller came with. I never even owned the 6 button one.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: lolmonade on January 21, 2013, 09:44:09 PM
The controller that always used to throw me was the damn 6-button Sega Genesis controller, with all the buttons just lined up like that on 2 lines.
But it was SO much better to play Street Fighter with compared to that damn SNES controller with the shoulder buttons.
I'm going to assume you had huge hands or used the arcade method with your right hand, cuz I preferred playing on SNES where I could use both hands to support the controller, L/R were fine.
The controller that always used to throw me was the damn 6-button Sega Genesis controller, with all the buttons just lined up like that on 2 lines.
Same lay-out as the Saturn controller, no?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 21, 2013, 10:50:32 PM
I don't mind the PlayStation button layout, but I do have an issue switching back and forth between the different ABXY layouts for Nintendo and Microsoft.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on January 21, 2013, 11:05:04 PM
I don't mind the PlayStation button layout, but I do have an issue switching back and forth between the different ABXY layouts for Nintendo and Microsoft.
Besides the N64 controller (which doesn't have XY buttons anyway), which of Nintendos controllers had a different layout for ABXY?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on January 21, 2013, 11:20:27 PM
Guys, GUYS! All this bullshit about numbers, letters, and symbols on the buttons is NONESENSE! All controllers should have one big green main button, a smaller secondary red button, and two odd shaped satellite buttons. Why memorize some two-bit map, when you can just go by feel?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 21, 2013, 11:24:18 PM
I don't mind the PlayStation button layout, but I do have an issue switching back and forth between the different ABXY layouts for Nintendo and Microsoft.
Besides the N64 controller (which doesn't have XY buttons anyway), which of Nintendos controllers had a different layout for ABXY?
The GameCube had the A button at the bottom/middle, B on the left, Y on top and X on the right.
SNES/DS/3DS/Classic Controller/Wii U have the B at the bottom, Y on the left, X on top, and A on the right.
Microsoft puts A at the botton, X on the left, Y on top and B to the right.
Usually I adjust fairly quickly, but for something like Madden or FIFA where I play on both 360 and Wii U it can be annoying.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on January 22, 2013, 12:03:22 AM
I don't mind the PlayStation button layout, but I do have an issue switching back and forth between the different ABXY layouts for Nintendo and Microsoft.
Besides the N64 controller (which doesn't have XY buttons anyway), which of Nintendos controllers had a different layout for ABXY?
The GameCube had the A button at the bottom/middle, B on the left, Y on top and X on the right.
SNES/DS/3DS/Classic Controller/Wii U have the B at the bottom, Y on the left, X on top, and A on the right.
Microsoft puts A at the botton, X on the left, Y on top and B to the right.
Usually I adjust fairly quickly, but for something like Madden or FIFA where I play on both 360 and Wii U it can be annoying.
I forgot about the Gamecube, its so comfortable though that you don't really think twice about it :D So yeah, the one time that they deviate from tradition where it actually works better ;)
Honestly though, B was still to the left of A,as Y was to X, so besides that odd little shift, it wasn't THAT big of a change. When playing Mega Man X collections for example, you can adjust the controls in MMX so I would always have A as jump, Y as my Buster, and X as dash and ta-da! I'm playing the game exactly how I would on the SNES anyway.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 28, 2013, 11:38:45 AM
Custom implementation of AMD Fusion APU Arquitecture (Accelerated Processing Unit) Provides good performance with low power consumtion Integrated CPU and GPU Considerably bigger and more powerful than AMD’s other APUs
PU:
Orbis contains eight Jaguar cores at 1.6 Ghz, arranged as two “clusters” Each cluster contains 4 cores and a shared 2MB L2 cache 256-bit SIMD operations, 128-bit SIMD ALU SSE up to SSE4, as well as Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX) One hardware thread per core Decodes, executes and retires at up to two intructions/cycle Out of order execution Per-core dedicated L1-I and L1-D cache (32Kb each) Two pipes per core yield 12,8 GFlops performance 102.4 GFlops for system
GPU:
GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture DirectX 11.1+ feature set Liverpool is an enhanced version of the architecture 18 Compute Units (CUs) Hardware balanced at 14 CUs Shared 512 KB of read/write L2 cache 800 Mhz 1.843 Tflops, 922 GigaOps/s Dual shader engines 18 texture units 8 Render backends
Memory:
4 GB unified system memory, 176 GB/s 3.5 available to games (estimate)
Storage:
- High speed Blu-ray drive
single layer (25 GB) or dual layer (50 GB) discs Partial constant angular velocity (PCAV) Outer half of disc 6x (27 MB/s) Inner half varies, 3.3x to 6x
- Internal mass storage
One SKU at launch: 500 GB HDD There may also be a Flash drive SKU in the future
Networking:
1 Gb/s Ethernet, 802.11b/g/n WIFI, and Bluetooth
Peripherals:
Evolved Dualshock controller Dual Camera Move controller
Extra:
Audio Processor (ACP) Video encode and decode (VCE/UVD) units Display ScanOut Engine (DCE) Zlib Decompression Hardware
How it compares to their Durango leak
Quote
CPU:
- x64 Architecture
- 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)
- each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache
- each module of four CPU cores has a 2 MB L2 cache resulting in a total of 4 MB of L2 cache
- each core has one fully independent hardware thread with no shared execution resources
- each hardware thread can issue two instructions per clock
GPU:
- custom D3D11.1 class 800-MHz graphics processor
- 12 shader cores providing a total of 768 threads
- each thread can perform one scalar multiplication and addition operation (MADD) per clock cycle
- at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second
High-fidelity Natural User Interface (NUI) sensor is always present
Storage and Memory:
- 8 gigabyte (GB) of RAM DDR3 (68 GB/s)
- 32 MB of fast embedded SRAM (ESRAM) (102 GB/s)
- from the GPU’s perspective the bandwidths of system memory and ESRAM are parallel providing combined peak bandwidth of 170 GB/sec.
- Cryptography engines for encryption and decryption, and hashing
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on January 28, 2013, 02:45:48 PM
@shingi, that's all gobbledegook to a layperson like me.
Can someone summarize how this compares to Wii U? Just curious.
Also, does it sound like it will be expensive?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on January 28, 2013, 03:30:00 PM
It'll be at least $400. These specs are similar in some respects to the Wii U. However, the Wii U has a 3 core chip whereas this is believed to have 8 cores (not a huge deal but noteable). Though both systems run at 1.6Ghz. The GPUs are 1 generation apart (Wii U has equivalent of a Radeon HD7750, PS4 has a Radeon HD 8750 or 8770). Honestly, the biggest difference and the one that will have people complaining will probably be the ram. Wii U has 2GB and the PS4 is believed to have 4GB of GDDR5 RAM, which is the fastest available.
Right now, specs mean nothing because final specs are not known and nobody has shown games on anything but the Wii U at this point.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on January 28, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
It'll be at least $400. These specs are similar in some respects to the Wii U. However, the Wii U has a 3 core chip whereas this is believed to have 8 cores (not a huge deal but noteable). Though both systems run at 1.6Ghz. The GPUs are 1 generation apart (Wii U has equivalent of a Radeon HD7750, PS4 has a Radeon HD 8750 or 8770). Honestly, the biggest difference and the one that will have people complaining will probably be the ram. Wii U has 2GB and the PS4 is believed to have 4GB of GDDR5 RAM, which is the fastest available.
Right now, specs mean nothing because final specs are not known and nobody has shown games on anything but the Wii U at this point.
Thanks for the quick and efficient service!
Forums: they deliver.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Caterkiller on January 28, 2013, 04:02:51 PM
Good to know glad Fatty asked and Louie knew some things. I'm really interested in these updated dual shock and move controllers.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on January 28, 2013, 04:20:40 PM
It'll be at least $400. These specs are similar in some respects to the Wii U. However, the Wii U has a 3 core chip whereas this is believed to have 8 cores (not a huge deal but noteable). Though both systems run at 1.6Ghz. The GPUs are 1 generation apart (Wii U has equivalent of a Radeon HD7750, PS4 has a Radeon HD 8750 or 8770). Honestly, the biggest difference and the one that will have people complaining will probably be the ram. Wii U has 2GB and the PS4 is believed to have 4GB of GDDR5 RAM, which is the fastest available.
Right now, specs mean nothing because final specs are not known and nobody has shown games on anything but the Wii U at this point.
I thought it was the 4700 and not the 7750 oh well. Another item to tick the cost up on my PC equivalent to the Wii U build.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 28, 2013, 04:29:59 PM
The Wii U's GPU is based on the Radeon HD 5000 series.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on January 28, 2013, 05:23:11 PM
The Wii U's GPU is based on the Radeon HD 5000 series.
I had heard differently. The word is that was the original one in the dev kit but the final specs have something closer to the 7750.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 28, 2013, 06:12:54 PM
Ah, maybe. All I could find with quick search was the 5000 (I wasn't gonna spend a long time looking).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on January 31, 2013, 07:39:09 PM
https://us.playstation.com/meeting2013/
What could be happening?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on January 31, 2013, 08:08:19 PM
I look forward to a possible PlayStation 4 reveal on February 20th, if only to finally have something visual to attach to all those otherwise-meaningless "leaked" stats. Plus, it would probably force Microsoft to actually unveil their next system, and we can finally properly get this next generation rolling. I could easily go another year without a PS4 or whatnot, but I'll take a real reveal over month after month of "rumors" and "leaks" about these consoles. I'm so sick of that already.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on January 31, 2013, 09:26:42 PM
Insert Ron Paul gif here.
Really excited what is going to be shown. Any word on a live stream.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 31, 2013, 09:33:18 PM
Development sources with working knowledge of both next generation consoles have told us that PlayStation 4 will be more powerful than the next Xbox, will ship with a redesigned controller and launch by the end of the year in Japan and the US. PlayStation 4’s European launch will follow in early 2014.
Sony is set to reveal its next PlayStation on Wednesday February 20th at an event dubbed ‘see the future’. Sony Computer Entertainment released a teaser video last night to announce the event. Below, our sources revealed what to expect from PlayStation 4.
The controller
Sources close to the hardware have revealed to us that PS4 will ship with a redesigned controller which is the same size as an existing DualShock but features a small touchpad in place of the existing Select, Start and PS buttons. The tech is based on Vita’s rear touchpad, and is similarly responsive in use.
A new Share button on the controller will,when pressed,launch a new feature that will allow screenshots and video to be distributed online. The PS4 hardware will continually record the most recent 15 minutes of onscreen action (with no processing penalty, claims our source), which users will then be able to edit and broadcast via the Internet.
The launch
We’re told that PlayStation 4 will launch in Japan and the US by Christmas, with a Euro rollout following in early 2014, the delay attributed to the complexities involved in European distribution. Alongside the console, Sony will also introduce a new, improved iteration of its PlayStation Eye peripheral, which remains compatible with the PlayStation Move controller. Move will be available at launch, but it’s not clear yet whether it will be bundled with the hardware. Sony has already earned an enormous amount of goodwill among studios working with PS4 development hardware. Privately, Sony representatives have conceded that the company made a mistake in creating such esoteric architecture for PS3, and its strategy for PS4 gives developers more opportunities this time around, notably because the hardware is much morePC-likein itsmakeup than PS3.
We have confirmed with sources that recently leaked tech specs are accurate. Though Durango devkits offer 8GB of DDR3 RAM, compared to Orbis’s 4GB, Sony’s GDDR5 solution is capable of moving data at 176 gigabytes per second, which should eliminate the sort of bottlenecks that hampered PS3 game performance. Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB.
Both platforms are driven by eight-core AMD CPUs clocked at 1.6GHz, with Microsoft opting for a D3D11.x GPU from an unknown source and Sony utilising a more capable solution in AMD’s ‘R10XX’ architecture, alongside the so-called ‘Liverpool’ system-on-chip.
It’s clear Sony has designed a system that, on paper, outperforms Microsoft’s next Xbox. One source familiar with both platforms tells us that in real terms Sony’s console is “slightly more powerful” and “very simple to work with”.
Ultimately, the performance differences between the two consoles will have as much bearing on multiplatform releases as the differences between PS3 and 360 – very little – but Sony will be expecting big-budget firstparty releases such as the PS4 Uncharted sequel to demonstrate its console’s superiority.
Looking forward to next month. I think the 8GB is bullshit on sonys part.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 01, 2013, 01:00:35 PM
The only way they go with 8GBs is if they change the RAM to slower, cheaper DDR3 RAM. I think they should stick with the GDDR5 RAM. It just makes too much sense and 8GBs is overkill.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 01, 2013, 01:09:24 PM
Touchpad sounds cool. I could care less about video sharing.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 01, 2013, 02:27:22 PM
Though the video part may be the most interesting. The only way I could really see them being able to do this without impacting performance is to just have a bit of fast memory that is filled with the signal that would go to the TV and in hardware it just goes to both of them. Harding the memory when you go to post.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 01, 2013, 06:45:07 PM
The only way they go with 8GBs is if they change the RAM to slower, cheaper DDR3 RAM. I think they should stick with the GDDR5 RAM. It just makes too much sense and 8GBs is overkill.
Yeah, if Sony has 8GBs of GDDR5 RAM that would make the system over $500 again which would be suicide. No way can that release a system like that anywhere close to $400 unless they'll be willing to take a huge loss on each system which Sony isn't really in a position to do.
Of course after the Vita, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony did something that stupid again since they didn't seem to learn much in that case either.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 01, 2013, 06:54:26 PM
I hope they are that stupid again. I want my supped up system on the cheap.
After hacking the PS3, it is easily the best entertainment device in my living room, games aside.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 01, 2013, 08:01:38 PM
I agree with Luigi Dude that it would be a stupid thing to do but any company that would release the Vita has already let the Stupid Train out of the station.
Quick, name a videogame company that has EVER learned from their mistakes. I think Sega with the Dreamcast is about the only one I can really think of and by that point it was too late. "That's stupid" never stopped Sony, Nintendo, pre-Dreamcast Sega or Atari from making jaw dropping stupid decisions. At the rate things go I fully expect MS to have the RRoD problem with their next system (they are simply too new to this console thing to have demonstrated an inability to learn from dumb mistakes yet).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 01, 2013, 08:19:34 PM
i believe the wii u architecture is designed to be able to use a part of the gpu to supplement the cpu(i'll dig up the source) but how close can we expect to be to these alleged specs. could the wii u become the ps2 this gen
and sony, this is not how you end a 6 year loss here
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 01, 2013, 08:24:26 PM
i believe the wii u architecture is designed to be able to use a part of the gpu to supplement the cpu(i'll dig up the source) but how close can we expect to be to these alleged specs. could the wii u become the ps2 this gen
and sony, this is not how you end a 6 year loss here
8GB for Orbis could totally just be the dev kit numbers, Sony does like to double even quadruple the RAM in those things. The PS2 dev kit had 128MB RAM but only ended up with 32MB. 8GB would be cool but I feel like Sony aren't willing to become a money sponge again this generation.
As for the Wii U using the GPU for CPU tasks, it can be done but it's nothing really worth while looking into on a machine the power of Wii U. Best you can manage to get out of such a setup is maybe some assisted physics work or data de-compression work but even then it wouldn't be a huge leap over what it can do today plus there is the fact that you do end up taking a lot of power away from the graphics side of the system to achieve this. GPGPU stuff is starting to show some really col things but even then only the most modern GPU's are really getting the major benefits out of it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 07, 2013, 09:36:07 AM
So that February 20 event that Sony is hyping... PS4 announcement?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 07, 2013, 07:31:41 PM
Well if you announce the PS4 before E3...you get a big announcement and can just focus on games for E3...and possibly disrupt the market. Everyone knows that PS4 and the new Xbox are coming but not when. So some people may buy the Wii U if it is another year away...but if it just a wait til November...perhaps they can steal sales from Nintendo.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 08, 2013, 02:37:17 PM
So I'm hearing rumors that the price of the PS4 may be over $400. They are looking at new ways to play instead of just a graphics bump. So I think they are attempting to be the Wii, the Wii U, OnLive, the PS Vita, a Roku and Google TV all in one plus the equal specs to the next Xbox. Plus word is they are looking into streaming 4K video content and possibly making its bluray drive compatible with the new 4K BD standard when it is finalized. Yeah, sure they've learned from the PS3's launch.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 08, 2013, 02:40:05 PM
So I'm hearing rumors that the price of the PS4 may be over $400. They are looking at new ways to play instead of just a graphics bump. So I think they are attempting to be the Wii, the Wii U, OnLive, the PS Vita, a Roku and Google TV all in one plus the equal specs to the next Xbox. Plus word is they are looking into streaming 4K video content and possibly making its bluray drive compatible with the new 4K BD standard when it is finalized. Yeah, sure they've learned from the PS3's launch.
Actually they did. A lot of people own a PS3 just for the Media capability and if you believe that the Orbis or Durango is going to be released under $400 I have a bridge to sell you.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 08, 2013, 03:01:54 PM
After the Wii, "new ways to play" is too wishy-washy of an improvement to convince me of a purchase. I think improving the specs is the most flexible way to improve a console. You give the devs a biggest sandbox and they go to town.
So a Wii like approach to the PS4 where it's a little bit better than the PS3 but with a new hat doesn't interest me. Neither does a whole bunch of multimedia stuff that has nothing to do with gaming. But that doesn't mean the market wouldn't buy that, just I wouldn't.
To give me to the hardware boost I want plus any controller gimmicks or multimedia functionality that others may want is going to raise the price. None of these things are free but if you cut any of them out you risk turning away a chunk of the market.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on February 08, 2013, 03:09:32 PM
So I'm hearing rumors that the price of the PS4 may be over $400. They are looking at new ways to play instead of just a graphics bump. So I think they are attempting to be the Wii, the Wii U, OnLive, the PS Vita, a Roku and Google TV all in one plus the equal specs to the next Xbox. Plus word is they are looking into streaming 4K video content and possibly making its bluray drive compatible with the new 4K BD standard when it is finalized. Yeah, sure they've learned from the PS3's launch.
Actually they did. A lot of people own a PS3 just for the Media capability and if you believe that the Orbis or Durango is going to be released under $400 I have a bridge to sell you.
(http://www.imgur.com/3KpXUpn.png)
Your going to be able to buy the $400 dollar system straight off but expect Microsoft to at least have a few different options,
-buying directly from any retailer for the $400-$450.
-grabbing on a subscription similar to the screenshot and through various retailers.
-A 2nd subscription plan tied to ISP/Cable providers. Your Xbox will replace your set top box/DVR and flow through the cables companies. Been rumored for a while and the Xbox can already interact with cables apps (Uverse,FiOS, Xfinty) so the partnership is already in their and the leaked specs had HDMI in.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 08, 2013, 03:19:22 PM
Still $400 or more overall.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on February 08, 2013, 03:33:16 PM
Well yeah but most people are going to probably go for the subsidy deal in the long run.
I'll probably buy mine out right but I know quite a few people who wouldn't mind that payoff.
But like someone earlier said announcing before E3 was always going to be the plan for both Microsoft and Sony. It was the main reason why I waited in a Wii U instead of buying one when I had the chance in December. (Bad initial impressions like the GB live stream didn't help either)
I knew that I had still a few games on my Xbox to play and most of the winter/spring 2013 games aren't Wii U.
In Twp weeks were going to see what Spony has and then a another couple of weeks where Microsoft will show the 720 at GDC maybe.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 08, 2013, 04:56:04 PM
So I'm hearing rumors that the price of the PS4 may be over $400. They are looking at new ways to play instead of just a graphics bump. So I think they are attempting to be the Wii, the Wii U, OnLive, the PS Vita, a Roku and Google TV all in one plus the equal specs to the next Xbox. Plus word is they are looking into streaming 4K video content and possibly making its bluray drive compatible with the new 4K BD standard when it is finalized. Yeah, sure they've learned from the PS3's launch.
Actually they did. A lot of people own a PS3 just for the Media capability and if you believe that the Orbis or Durango is going to be released under $400 I have a bridge to sell you.
Well, under $400 can be $399.99 which is what I was expecting for the cheap gimped version (HDD instead of SSD, half the number of USB 3.0 ports, possibly wifi only, no move/PS Eye included, etc) and then $450-500 for the all inclusive version.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 14, 2013, 04:28:49 PM
Cue the "Sony stole Nintendo's idea again!" brigade if that is indeed a touch screen.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: alegoicoe on February 14, 2013, 04:35:55 PM
Looks pretty legit, given that Sony products always manage to leak out.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 14, 2013, 04:37:52 PM
And the pattern of Sony having the ugliest controller will continue.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 14, 2013, 04:40:11 PM
It's ugly (though that very well may be just a prototype), but it at least looks like it may actually be designed to fit the human hand, unlike Sony's previous controllers. Also, the D-Pad looks like the one on the Vita, which is the best non-Nintendo D-Pad I've ever used.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 14, 2013, 05:24:20 PM
Touch pad is a nice... touch.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Caterkiller on February 14, 2013, 05:41:39 PM
I'd like to try off tv play with that.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on February 14, 2013, 06:15:12 PM
Looks like a dual shock alright. Hope it has some heft to it as I find the dualshock3 to be too light.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 14, 2013, 06:38:17 PM
That's quite a jam packed controller. I wonder what the guts would look like if you took it apart. Does it also have waggle or rumble? It would be quite a feat to get all that in there.
Of course any game worth a **** will just use a control scheme that could have been done on the PS1 dual-analog controller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 14, 2013, 06:59:45 PM
So that February 20 event that Sony is hyping... PS4 announcement?
i want it to be playstation allstars racing or some crap like that to watch the web burn also there is no way thats a screen its way too small for practical use
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: alegoicoe on February 14, 2013, 07:55:41 PM
also there is no way thats a screen its way too small for practical use
It looks like the same touch pad that's used for the Vita's rear touch pad, which is to say it's a very sensitive touch pad. I honestly can't imagine what use that touch pad could have mounted on the front of the controller like that, but it is a good pad. However, I can tell you right now as a Vita owner that that touch pad will smudge like crazy, which isn't a huge deal when it's mounted on the back of your handheld but is quite annoying when it's on the front.
As for this prototype, I'm not sure what to think right now. You can't see the back of it, so I can't tell whether Sony's finally put in better L2/R2 triggers than the Dualshock 3's (which is my biggest problem with the Dualshock 3). I don't see the point in the touch pad. As for the sticks, I like the look of them at first glance, as it gives your thumbs a grove on the sticks to rest in. Otherwise, it's the Dualshock design again, my preferred controller design from the current generation so I'm OK with using it again. As far as I'm concerned, innovation lies in the game design. You shouldn't need radical, gimmicky controller redesigns to justify software innovation in your games.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 14, 2013, 08:31:59 PM
also there is no way thats a screen its way too small for practical use
It looks like the same touch pad that's used for the Vita's rear touch pad, which is to say it's a very sensitive touch pad. I honestly can't imagine what use that touch pad could have mounted on the front of the controller like that, but it is a good pad. However, I can tell you right now as a Vita owner that that touch pad will smudge like crazy, which isn't a huge deal when it's mounted on the back of your handheld but is quite annoying when it's on the front.
As for this prototype, I'm not sure what to think right now. You can't see the back of it, so I can't tell whether Sony's finally put in better L2/R2 triggers than the Dualshock 3's (which is my biggest problem with the Dualshock 3). I don't see the point in the touch pad. As for the sticks, I like the look of them at first glance, as it gives your thumbs a grove on the sticks to rest in. Otherwise, it's the Dualshock design again, my preferred controller design from the current generation so I'm OK with using it again. As far as I'm concerned, innovation lies in the game design. You shouldn't need radical, gimmicky controller redesigns to justify software innovation in your games.
i somewhat agree that it isnt needed but the ds has proven both can be done
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 14, 2013, 08:35:18 PM
I still feel that motion control and IR pointing still have their best days ahead of them.
And on that tangent, if Skyward Sword came out when TP did (with the M+ for that matter), I think the Wii's life cycle would have been dramatically different.
So it's a shame the PS4 wasn't more ambitious.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 14, 2013, 10:05:06 PM
That's about what I was expecting. Though the microphone area is odd, unless it's a tiny speaker, which would be ever weirder. I'm wondering if I can get my fingers or thumbs up to the touchpad without having to hold it awkwardly. If it's the same size as the DS3 and the analogue sticks have moved out a bit, then I think it could work. Otherwise, I think it's going to cause a lot of hand cramping with the positions your hand needs to be in to touch that thing.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: azeke on February 14, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
Oooh that IS impressive.. no, that wasn't sarcasm. Neither was this. 100% serious post.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 15, 2013, 12:28:51 AM
It that is indeed the controller I like it and hate it.
Basically the Touch Screen is pretty useless in that position and that size...unless you are simply using it for context sensitive buttons that can change.
The Other stuff in the controllers seems normal or unnecessary. Though, I have to say, if Sony can use their move technology with a normal looking controller, more power to them. Because that means a more natural experience, for gamers.
I am hoping for some more refinement in controllers but with subtle new features, and this kinda fits the bill.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on February 15, 2013, 12:33:19 AM
The touchpad looks way too small to be useful.
I'm really not convinced that Sony or Microsoft can make a controller as comfortable as the Wii U Pro Controller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on February 15, 2013, 12:38:46 AM
I'm really not convinced that Sony or Microsoft can make a controller as comfortable as the Wii U Pro Controller.
The Wii U Pro Controller is quite comfortable, indeed (just as the Classic Controller Pro was), and it's a controller that should be supported more than it has been so far on Wii U. However, I've never cared for Nintendo's inverted Wii U stick placement so I'll take a Dualshock 3 or Xbox 360 controller any day if given the option.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 15, 2013, 07:42:03 AM
I'm really not convinced that Sony or Microsoft can make a controller as comfortable as the Wii U Pro Controller.
The Wii U Pro Controller is quite comfortable, indeed (just as the Classic Controller Pro was), and it's a controller that should be supported more than it has been so far on Wii U. However, I've never cared for Nintendo's inverted Wii U stick placement so I'll take a Dualshock 3 or Xbox 360 controller any day if given the option.
i like it but for vc im keeping my classic controller
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 15, 2013, 08:53:39 AM
I'm really not convinced that Sony or Microsoft can make a controller as comfortable as the Wii U Pro Controller.
The Wii U Pro Controller is quite comfortable, indeed (just as the Classic Controller Pro was), and it's a controller that should be supported more than it has been so far on Wii U. However, I've never cared for Nintendo's inverted Wii U stick placement so I'll take a Dualshock 3 or Xbox 360 controller any day if given the option.
Explain.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on February 15, 2013, 10:55:55 AM
^gamepad and u--pro controllers have dual sticks higher than what he's used to, or at least that's how i read it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on February 15, 2013, 12:18:17 PM
I'm really not convinced that Sony or Microsoft can make a controller as comfortable as the Wii U Pro Controller.
The Wii U Pro Controller is quite comfortable, indeed (just as the Classic Controller Pro was), and it's a controller that should be supported more than it has been so far on Wii U. However, I've never cared for Nintendo's inverted Wii U stick placement so I'll take a Dualshock 3 or Xbox 360 controller any day if given the option.
Explain.
On traditional controllers, the two analog sticks are at the bottom of the controller, near where your thumbs naturally rest and underneath the Dpad/face buttons. Nintendo, however, insisted on the Wii U controllers all have their sticks at the top of the controller near the shoulder buttons/triggers, above the Dpad/face buttons. Now, I could take the left analog stick either way. However, I find the right analog stick's placement problematic considering it defies the natural resting position of my right thumb, especially on the Gamepad (which is too big anyway, and I have to constantly reposition my hands to reach certain triggers).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 15, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
I find my natural thumbposition is actually where the d-pad/face buttons are on most controllers. But I still prefer the Sony/MS setup merely because I find it easy to use an analog stick in either position, but find it very awkward to use a d-pad in the Gamecube-style position.
As for the right analog stick on the Wii U controller I instinctively disliked it entirely because it bucks convention and Nintendo has not offered any explanation for it. Why make use reprogram our muscle memory unless there is some important reason to do so? It looks like the right analog stick is above the buttons purely for visual symmetry which is irrelevent in good controller design. You don't let the marketing department design the controller and that's what Nintendo has done since the Wii.
I've never liked Sony's split d-pad though and I'm glad that's seems to be done with. I don't like the shapes for button names either because it is not intuitive. I can instinctively tell where A would be in relation to B but Triangle and Square. That has no association in my brain. When I play a Playstation game I think of the buttons as jump or shoot or whatever but once the game prompts me to "press Square" then I'm fucked. I HAVE to look down because I don't instinctively know which button is Square. I absolutely SUCK at God of War because of that. But I imagine a whole generation of Playstation gamers would not like changing the button names so it would make sense to keep it that way.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 15, 2013, 02:27:56 PM
When I play a Playstation game I think of the buttons as jump or shoot or whatever but once the game prompts me to "press Square" then I'm fucked. I HAVE to look down because I don't instinctively know which button is Square. I absolutely SUCK at God of War because of that. But I imagine a whole generation of Playstation gamers would not like changing the button names so it would make sense to keep it that way.
I got the first God of War and wrote off the whole series because of the QTEs. I cannot do that **** with the Playstation symbols. I really don't even think in terms of buttons anyway. The buttons quickly become "jump", "shoot" etc. So if the game suddenly says "PUSH A!!!" I have to think about it. It isn't "A", it's "jump".
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 15, 2013, 02:50:36 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/WaveBird.jpg/800px-WaveBird.jpg)(http://iappleitech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Red-Chrome-Controller.jpg) Gamecube and 360 controller have the same basic layout. Tradition would Dictate that the main movement be in the prominent spot. Sony just insisted on tacking on Analogs so it didn't end up that way on their controller.
Having the Right Analog on the Gamepad is no more odder then the Left Analog under the D-Pad on the Dual Shock. In fact if I had to choose between the two I keep the Gamepad config. I still prefer the GCN layout. Thats why I use a PS3 controller that has the left analog and d-pad swapped.
Found this image and thought it Pertanent. (http://meetjoeblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/game-controller.jpg)(http://www.oddhubs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Evolution-of-game-controllers-3.jpg) (http://[b]http://www.oddhubs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Evolution-of-game-controllers-3.jpg[/b])
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on February 15, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Here's the big problem with your objection, though: what are probably the 3 most-used features on the right thumb area of the controller? I'd say generally the Square/X button (commonly used for attacking), the Cross/A button (commonly used for jumping), & the right analog stick (commonly used for camera control). On the traditional layout, those 3 features are generally close to each other, making it easy to move your thumb between the three as needed.
Now, in Nintendo's layout, the face buttons closest to the right analog stick are Triangle/Y and Circle/B, the two buttons probably used the least in modern games. The two most commonly used buttons are on the other side of the face button diamond towards the middle of the controller. In order to fix this issue, you'd have to remap the buttons so Y and B are used for the most common actions, with X and A performing the least. Most games won't let you do that, and from what I've seen developers aren't remapping the buttons themselves to make them more natural for Wii U play.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 15, 2013, 03:12:17 PM
I still find that much less inconvenient then having the Left Analog stick below.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 15, 2013, 04:52:31 PM
A lot of this controller stuff would be helped if you could remap the controls as a system level. So I don't have to see if the dev offers and option, I can just map A to the B button for EVERY game if I want to. Why is this still not a feature on consoles because it seems like such an obvious catch all solution to most control scheme woes?
Of course Nintendo doesn't even want you to remap controls in their games so to do it at a console level would be blasphemy in their minds. They've traditionally been so inflexible about that (though there have been exceptions like Super Metroid) that you figure that it's some key part of their game design philosophy or something.
Though I imagine that if they let you map buttons at a system level they figure that idiots will muck up their controls and get confused when the game says "press A" and they mapped it to B. Remember that all gamers, particularly those that are Nintendo customers, are huge morons, at least in the eyes of the industry itself.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ThePerm on February 15, 2013, 05:03:25 PM
another angle http://i.imgur.com/E1o5L29.jpg
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: shingi_70 on February 15, 2013, 07:51:43 PM
Sony Corp. 6758.TO -1.87% is planning to offer technology to stream games to its next videogame console, people familiar with the company's plans say, alongside other enhancements to bolster its position in the market.
The new technology, to be unveiled Wednesday along with the new console, will allow users to play games delivered over the Internet, these people said. The streaming service, they added, is designed to use current PlayStation 3 titles on the new console; the new device is also expected to play new games stored on optical discs.
Sony's plans come after it acquired Gaikai Inc. last year for $380 million. Though many companies now offer simple games over the Internet, Gaikai was one of several companies that offered online access to visually intense games, which ordinarily require specialized circuitry found on high-end personal computers and gaming consoles.
The streaming technology is one of the new features and enhancements expected to be offered with the new console, which Sony plans to unveil at an event in New York. Sony's new PlayStation, for example, may control the action with higher fidelity cameras for its "Move" motion-sensing technology and touch-sensing pads on new controllers, according to people who have seen and been briefed on the devices.
...
Still, Sony is pushing ahead and has been investing heavily to prepare Gaikai's service, people familiar with the matter say. Microsoft also has experimented with its own version of cloud gaming, people at the company have said, but has in the past questioned the costs associated with building a service large enough to reach all its customers.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Sarail on February 15, 2013, 10:53:49 PM
I'm really not convinced that Sony or Microsoft can make a controller as comfortable as the Wii U Pro Controller.
The Wii U Pro Controller is quite comfortable, indeed (just as the Classic Controller Pro was), and it's a controller that should be supported more than it has been so far on Wii U. However, I've never cared for Nintendo's inverted Wii U stick placement so I'll take a Dualshock 3 or Xbox 360 controller any day if given the option.
Explain.
On traditional controllers, the two analog sticks are at the bottom of the controller, near where your thumbs naturally rest and underneath the Dpad/face buttons. Nintendo, however, insisted on the Wii U controllers all have their sticks at the top of the controller near the shoulder buttons/triggers, above the Dpad/face buttons. Now, I could take the left analog stick either way. However, I find the right analog stick's placement problematic considering it defies the natural resting position of my right thumb, especially on the Gamepad (which is too big anyway, and I have to constantly reposition my hands to reach certain triggers).
No, my thumbs naturally rest where the dpad/face buttons are on the Dualshock controllers, so the sticks feel unnatural to me. Gamecube had it right since analogue is the best input for our modern 3D games.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 17, 2013, 01:26:35 PM
Its not good for your thumbs however...
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on February 17, 2013, 08:35:44 PM
I've been a gamer a long time. I could sit down with one game for hours on end (not that I do anymore) without food, drink or rest. You think I care about my health? ;)
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 19, 2013, 07:09:27 PM
Our source—the same reliable source who back in early 2012 told us the codename for Sony's next console (http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details)[/font][/size][/font][/color] and [/size]the codename for Microsoft's next console (http://kotaku.com/5885539/the-next-xbox-is-code+nameddurango)[/font][/size]—tells us that there are two models planned for the new machine, and that pricing won't be announced until later this year, possibly around E3. The current plan, our source says, is to release them at $429 and $529, but that could change.
Oh E3 should be fun if true.
Kaz: The PS4 will launch for the low price of FIVE HUNDRED TWENTY NINE U.S DOLLARS.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 19, 2013, 07:28:19 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/WaveBird.jpg/800px-WaveBird.jpg)(http://iappleitech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Red-Chrome-Controller.jpg) Gamecube and 360 controller have the same basic layout. Tradition would Dictate that the main movement be in the prominent spot. Sony just insisted on tacking on Analogs so it didn't end up that way on their controller.
Having the Right Analog on the Gamepad is no more odder then the Left Analog under the D-Pad on the Dual Shock. In fact if I had to choose between the two I keep the Gamepad config. I still prefer the GCN layout. Thats why I use a PS3 controller that has the left analog and d-pad swapped.
Found this image and thought it Pertanent. (http://meetjoeblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/game-controller.jpg)(http://www.oddhubs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Evolution-of-game-controllers-3.jpg) (http://[b]http://www.oddhubs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Evolution-of-game-controllers-3.jpg[/b])
this is why i support the idea of a left-stick/d-pad setup that lets you swap the two.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on February 20, 2013, 08:07:53 AM
If a controller had small swappable parts, I would either lose them or they would promptly become cat toys without my consent. I can't be bothered. If I use a controller long enough, I get used to it. Considering I play mostly on Nintendo hardware, switching between 3DS and the GamePad/Pro Controller will be a breeze as the layouts are nearly identical.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 20, 2013, 12:27:41 PM
So to sum up some of the major rumours of the PS4:
- Paid online service like Xbox Live - Locking out used games - $500+ price point
The rumours are all BAD things. How the hell would anyone get hyped about that sort of stuff? All this says to me is that the PS4 is a non-purchase for me and the Wii U would get my dollar by default. I don't think Nintendo is doing a great job with the Wii U but with the rumours for the other systems, they might not have to. Screwing up the least might be enough to succeed.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on February 20, 2013, 12:40:17 PM
You could also opt for nothing. Just because Wii U is the best option doesn't mean it's a good one for you. You're claiming that Nintendo isn't doing a great job, but you'd still give them money? Don't get me wrong, I love the Wii U. However, buying something for the sake of buying it when you find it to be mediocre seems like a waste to me. No shame in walking away.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 20, 2013, 01:11:42 PM
I have a feeling Ian is talking about 1-3 years in the future. I don't think he's planning to buy any new gen system this year.
They won't announce anything involving money at this event. This will all be about hype and any time you mention money, you lose some of that hype. So the paid online will not be discussed (though they may mention an upgraded PSN) and neither will the price of the system be announced. I don't think they'll wait until 2 months out like Nintendo did, but they will wait at least until E3 for pricing and probably make an event in July to announce all the pricing details.
This event will announce the PS4, state all the theoretical graphics it can output (Sony loves their specs). It will include a tech demo that will never be possible in a full size game. The Cloud BC may be announced. It probably won't be called PS4.
And finally, a lot of gaming news outlets will state that this will mean the end of Nintendo as a console maker.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 20, 2013, 01:50:45 PM
... They won't announce anything involving money at this event. This will all be about hype and any time you mention money, you lose some of that hype. ...
I have to disagree there. If Sony came out and showed a console that was just leaps and bounds above the Wii U and then went "Oh, and its only $250" That would be HUGE hype.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: pokepal148 on February 20, 2013, 02:03:21 PM
... They won't announce anything involving money at this event. This will all be about hype and any time you mention money, you lose some of that hype. ...
I have to disagree there. If Sony came out and showed a console that was just leaps and bounds above the Wii U and then went "Oh, and its only $250" That would be HUGE hype.
never happening
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 20, 2013, 02:43:28 PM
Who'd have thought that the decision to buy a console end up deciding which is the lesser of the evils, not which one I like the best.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 20, 2013, 03:13:52 PM
... They won't announce anything involving money at this event. This will all be about hype and any time you mention money, you lose some of that hype. ...
I have to disagree there. If Sony came out and showed a console that was just leaps and bounds above the Wii U and then went "Oh, and its only $250" That would be HUGE hype.
Of course that will never happen since Sony is already losing money severly (to the point that their credit rating has been slashed and their stock price dropped 20%), at $250 they would be losing at least $150 per system. And the rumor I am hearing is that the PS4 will come in two price points of $430 and $530.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: blackfootsteps on February 20, 2013, 03:16:50 PM
Surely the analog stick position issue could be solved simply. Release 2 models of the controller. You prefer Dualshock setup, buy that one. You want a 360 position, there's a model that has the left analog stick where the dpad is currently. Best of both worlds.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 20, 2013, 03:20:20 PM
Surely the analog stick position issue could be solved simply. Release 2 models of the controller. You prefer Dualshock setup, buy that one. You want a 360 position, there's a model that has the left analog stick where the dpad is currently. Best of both worlds.
Or just buy the third party version of the PS3 controller that looks like a 360 controller.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ceric on February 20, 2013, 03:23:22 PM
Wow, a lot of people just got buzz cut by a plane in this thread.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 20, 2013, 05:10:47 PM
You could also opt for nothing. Just because Wii U is the best option doesn't mean it's a good one for you. You're claiming that Nintendo isn't doing a great job, but you'd still give them money? Don't get me wrong, I love the Wii U. However, buying something for the sake of buying it when you find it to be mediocre seems like a waste to me. No shame in walking away.
Yeah I figure as the game industry in general changes to incorporate concepts I don't want to support then, yeah, walking away is an option.
Still even with Nintendo as the lesser of three evils, they could potentially be doing something that is so against what I don't want, that I feel it would be worthwhile for me to support them. A big part of why I stuck with them for so long was because they had a philosophy towards game design that I felt was good for videogames as a whole and I wanted that philosophy to be supported and encouraged. I think they've lost track of that BUT if the Wii U was the only system that didn't lock out used games wouldn't that be worth supporting? Since I don't want that concept to succeed at all and become standard practice in the entire videogame industry, it would be in my best interests that the company that doesn't push that "feature" is the one that does the best. Squashing the used-game lockout concept would be worth dealing with a Nintendo console that doesn't quite satisfy me, to a point.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on February 20, 2013, 07:15:20 PM
Since I don't want that concept to succeed at all and become standard practice in the entire videogame industry, it would be in my best interests that the company that doesn't push that "feature" is the one that does the best. Squashing the used-game lockout concept would be worth dealing with a Nintendo console that doesn't quite satisfy me, to a point.
Understood. However, I don't think I could buy something for that reason if I found the rest of it mediocre. I love Nintendo, but they get my money when they earn it with something tangible that I can enjoy (e.g. games, not the concept of used games).
Anyway...
I'm watching the PS4 Announcement. I'm a bit underwhelmed. It reminds me of the PS3 in that there's a lot of stuff that sounds nice when talked about, but when I get the console in my hands, I never use any of those features. In fact, I find some of the new features really intrusive. They want to know enough about me to predict the next game I'll download. NO! I want them to know as little about me as possible. I don't want people to be able to look into my games while I'm playing. I don't want backseat gamer friends to shout instructions to me when I suck at games (which is often). I'm sure you can turn it off, but the fact that it's there is quite disconcerting/creepy to me. It's the same reason I'm so against the rumored Always-Online-Kinect-Required Durango. I don't want anyone or any company to be so integrated into my personal space. Get that Share Button crap out of my face. Do not want.
As for the graphics, it doesn't leave the current generation in the dust. It's pretty, but so is Wii U. I was more excited when I saw the Zelda demo. Seeing Zelda in HD did it for me. Although it looked nice, nothing about the graphics in that demo blew me away. Being Zelda blew me away. I know that's biased. It doesn't matter though. That's what I want and only Nintendo offers that to me.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 20, 2013, 07:34:17 PM
So what's the summary of PS4 stuff?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ian Sane on February 20, 2013, 07:35:29 PM
I'm turned off by all the social nonsense regarding the PS4. I rolled my eyes at Miiverse for the same reason.
I don't care. I play games during the times when I can get AWAY from the rest of the world. All other time is either sleep, dealing with other people's bullshit, or spending time with my family and friends and, oddly enough, that time is usually spent doing things other than videogames. For me the selling point of a videogame is that when I want some time to myself I can get lost in Zebes and forget about everything else. To me it's like a book. Would you ever in a million years put effort into expanding the social elements of books? Would you spend time building a library that is loud and distracting?
Now multiplayer games have always existed so there is some logic to focusing on the social elements of a videogame system. But if it is not related to playing the game I don't see the point. I think the real reason they're doing it is because Facebook is the hip thing and they feel they have to associate themselves with it.
Other stuff that's gets focused on: non-game functionality and gimmick controls. I don't give a **** about that crap either but if I buy a current videogame system I HAVE to pay for it. It's not free, it affects the price. That's why I was hostile towards the Wii U Gamepad and I'm equally hostile to the EyeToy and Kinect (which I assume will be standard in the next Xbox).
Whenever you watch some big videogame press conference there is just tons of time spent on non-gaming functions, gimmicks, and social media. The videogames are like "...oh yeah, right, that stuff". I really just want to pop in a good game, made for people that actually like videogames and that has tight responsive controls, and have a good time playing it. These days I feel like I'm asking for the moon on a platter when I say that.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 20, 2013, 07:36:18 PM
Every game that has been shown has been a realistic or magical mess (except for one that looked like a cellshaded version of the Mist).
Stop saying good morning and good evening. Yes, there is a time difference in the world. Just say HELLO or GOOD DAY.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NeoStar9X on February 20, 2013, 07:41:11 PM
I'm honestly trying to keep my emotions about this in check but I really need to be see new games from Nintendo for the Wii U and I need to see them much sooner rather then later. This presentation is making me feel somewhat down about the Wii U at the moment. Not so much the graphics as I'm not sure what is gameplay and what is cinematic (think it's all cinematic but I haven't seen the full presentation) but the fact that the PS4 is actually getting NEW games and NEW engines.
Nothing like this at all has been said in regard to the Wii U. That I must say is super depressing at the moment.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Kytim89 on February 20, 2013, 07:45:37 PM
I am not impressed by anything that Sony has offered so far. They are just simply rehashing what they have already done with previous Playstation consoles. I wish they would quit hyping the remote play with the Vita and release some damn games for it, or, better yet, put it out of its misery. Looks like I will be getting a Wii U after all.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 20, 2013, 07:46:33 PM
I think that dude from Ubisoft just nutted in his pants.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 20, 2013, 07:53:38 PM
Cheer up EmoStar9x!
WatchDogs is on stage.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 20, 2013, 07:55:20 PM
Didn't Diablo 3 kinda bomb?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NeoStar9X on February 20, 2013, 07:57:45 PM
In the end this is how you debut a new system. Now what Nintendo did. :(
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on February 20, 2013, 08:01:32 PM
Really? I didn't think Sony did anything special. "Here's a bunch of features you won't use, but we'll use to spy on you. Also, here are some games that look marginally better than what your PS3 can do. Also, we're spying on you."
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: alegoicoe on February 20, 2013, 08:08:52 PM
Bummer for PS fans, there is nothing ps3 can't do that ps4 is bringing to the table. Sure the system does sports higher specs, but from the games shown there is no where to be found a giant leap in graphics, and to make matters worse they didnt even show the system after two hours of talking, talking and taking.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NeoStar9X on February 20, 2013, 08:16:09 PM
Really? Would have thought they would have done that first. Like I said I didn't see it all but what I did see I did like and how things were presented. Then again perhaps it's just me being disappointed with how Nintendo handle things, both years and is still handling t hings, that allowed this to come off better then it actually was.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 20, 2013, 08:21:37 PM
The only real-time footage was a face.
Oh and Killzone and the myst and watchdogs. And watch dogs looked the most fun.
Graphics fail.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NeoStar9X on February 20, 2013, 08:29:12 PM
Going to rewatch the presentation and see if I feel differently. It's already archived on twitch.
http://www.twitch.tv/playstation
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ejamer on February 20, 2013, 08:31:34 PM
Well, some cool features... sadly tempered by some WTF at the same time. That said, I always try to take these things with a grain of salt. Pre-release hype doesn't always look so hot when reality hits. (Don't have to go back to PS3 pre-release announcements to see this. Just think about Aliens: Colonial Marines getting hype right up until release.)
Shame Sony aren't willing to announce the pricing yet, but that would almost certainly deflate some of the excitement from the event. Maybe at E3?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: alegoicoe on February 20, 2013, 08:39:09 PM
Did anyone catch a glimpse of Wii music for PS4? :cool;
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on February 20, 2013, 08:45:32 PM
I need to rewatch the presentation when it becomes downloadable off GT or something, because I got called away during the driving game and didn't get back until Square-Enix stepped up on stage for a grand total of 5 seconds.
Overall, I'm very wary about this console. It sounds like everything I don't WANT in a gaming experience: constantly online, constantly linking you with other people you don't want. Add backwards compatibility apparently only via Gaikai Onlive-style streaming and the total lack of firm details about the non-spec aspects of the hardware or OS, and you have a console I'm not sure I actually want. Streaming trials for every PS4 game is a great idea, though.
On the other hand, the games looked rather promising. Knack looked like a potentially-cool Ratchet & Clank-style cartoony brawler. The new Killzone looks like it's taking a page from Crysis with some huge environments and very shiny models. The new Infamous will probably be pretty decent as well since it's Sucker Punch. As for the rest, I either haven't seen the footage yet or I'm very "meh" on it. Giving Jonathan Blow any time whatsoever was a terrible idea, and following him up with the equally pretentious David Cage won't do me any favors on the replay either.
Like I said, though, I saw this conference in bits and pieces. I need to rewatch it as a continuous presentation to get a real sense of it and judge Sony accordingly.
Fun fact: did you know Twitter has a daily Tweet cap? I didn't until today.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 20, 2013, 08:48:09 PM
Tweet cap? How often do you tweet? Because I see people literally tweet more than 40 times a day (which is absurdly high), so the ap must be really high.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on February 20, 2013, 08:52:28 PM
Tweet cap? How often do you tweet? Because I see people literally tweet more than 40 times a day (which is absurdly high), so the ap must be really high.
I was pretty much live-tweeting my reactions to the Sony Conference. Apparently, my snarkiness hit the 250 tweet cap I didn't know existed. :-[
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 20, 2013, 08:56:22 PM
I hear PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5....
wouldn't that be pretty damn expensive!? $599 US DOLLARS again!?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on February 20, 2013, 08:56:35 PM
Yeah, most of my friends call it "Twitter Jail." It's in there to deter spam bots/annoying people (annoying to Twitter's servers).
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 20, 2013, 08:57:04 PM
Umm, I don't see what is to complain about too much.
I am sure the social features can be turned off. But, maybe they can't. Only when we know you can't opt out does it become a problem.
Also always online is something that all systems are striving for. Heck, the Wii strived for always online. It is what is done with always online that is the issue, and again we don't know what can and can't be opted out of.
Now the specs sound really nice 8 Gigs of Ram will allow for developers to push the boundaries some. Yes, it is probably not going to be much better than the best high end PC game...but this next generation is not going to be just about graphics. I think graphics and gaming are about to hit a plateau. So what you really want to do is see if the system is going to be future proof for a while...and I would say yes it will.
I am mostly disappointed they didn't show the controller off yet. That is what Sony really could have done to say hey this is a new system...look at the new way you can play.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: nickmitch on February 20, 2013, 08:59:01 PM
I'm pretty sure all that RAM has to be goings towards all the crap you're supposed to do with the system. Play a game while it's downloading, while you're live streaming the play though, while your buddy is taking over for you from his house, while you update your facebook.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Stogi on February 20, 2013, 09:02:26 PM
My review.
What I did like:
The fact that you can share anything at anytime. I can see myself using that a lot in racing and fighting games.
It's a beast of a machine, making it yet another affordable (in time) super entertainment computer (especially when hacked).
The Move. It'll be interesting to see how it actually works, but creating sculptures and ceramics has always interested me. I have a sneaking suspicion that it won't work well though.
What I don't like:
The controller. Just because I'm use to it doesn't make it good. Make it bigger and more comfortable to hold. And the touch pad just seems useless. I don't have a vita but the only original game I saw was one that used the touch pad to literally plunge your finger into the game. But the PS4 controller has it's touch pad in the front, so that game isn't even possible. I guess if you wanted to scroll through a web page or something.
How almost every game shown either dwelled in realism or magic or both. Seriously, I know your a game designer but how fucking nerdy can you get? Cool doesn't mean power, cool means interesting. And the most interesting new game they showed was Knack. I hope that turns out well.
The new engine talk. Just sounds like dick comparisons.
And lastly, how no new game types were shown. Nothing that was shown off couldn't have been done on the PS3. Absolutely nothing. That's just....just weak.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: EasyCure on February 20, 2013, 09:04:51 PM
I am mostly disappointed they didn't show the controller off yet. That is what Sony really could have done to say hey this is a new system...look at the new way you can play.
How almost every game shown either dwelled in realism or magic or both. Seriously, I know your a game designer but how fucking nerdy can you get? Cool doesn't mean power, cool means interesting. And the most interesting new game they showed was Knack. I hope that turns out well.
when were game devs ever considered cool?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 20, 2013, 09:10:08 PM
Wait...did they show off the controller and I missed it?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 20, 2013, 09:13:27 PM
The controller is the one that leaked last week. They showed at least enough to confirm that.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 20, 2013, 09:14:39 PM
wouldn't that be pretty damn expensive!? $599 US DOLLARS again!?
Yeah that seems excessive. All the community features don't need GDDR5. I wonder if 4gb of the RAM is DDR3.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 20, 2013, 09:14:50 PM
Ok. They did show the controller. Nevermind. There is absolutely now new way to play with that controller. The Touch control area seams completely useless in that position unless they make a game that only uses it...because it is really outta reach for quickly moving to it and back to normal buttons.
However, the controller being able to be used with the Eye Camera as a move controller may be useful for waggle controls, which we all love.
Ok, well so far Nintendo is the only one trying to innovate with new control and play methods, however if you want raw power the PS4 is definitely more powerful than the WiiU. Probably 2X as powerful, which in the end, isn't that big of a deal for Nintendo I think.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 20, 2013, 09:26:13 PM
Playstation 4 Specs (http://s16.postimage.org/jxujvct9x/console.png) http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130221a_e.pdf (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130221a_e.pdf)
That's not what I meant. They are always trying to make something cool, like an alchemist trying to make gold. But most of them just have boners for dragons, super human abilities, and guns. Cool isn't power, cool is interesting. They don't understand that.
Even if I was just hung on super human abilities, I would go a complete opposite direction (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/5876f2aced/don-cheadle-is-captain-planet)
SPAK: You gave me an idea. I bet you could use the track pad to control the in game camera. That could potentially be interesting.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NeoStar9X on February 20, 2013, 10:11:32 PM
Watching more (http://www.twitch.tv/ignlive/b/369515545 (http://www.twitch.tv/ignlive/b/369515545)) now and got ahead of myself before about the presentation. Back in a good place after calming down. haha
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: azeke on February 20, 2013, 10:56:25 PM
Just finished it.
It was okay, i guess.
Nothing really amazing though.
I liked Watch Dogs footage. They re-used the same location as in last E3 but they managed to convince premise goes beyond that just hacking gimmick.
Agni's Philosophy trailer was pretty good too. Interesting setting -- some medieval looking magii, brasilian crime ridden favelas and glimpse of futuristic city.
Everything else -- ehh.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 20, 2013, 11:10:02 PM
Knack looked like this gens Kameo. I guess the RAM is all GDDR5, which is Krazy!
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: SixthAngel on February 21, 2013, 12:40:22 AM
Can't say I got excited or surprised at all. The most interesting game is Watchdogs and its coming to WiiU and every other system under the sun. Most everything looked nice but nothing that would actually get me excited, just the exact same stuff we have now but slightly shinier. Even the "quirky" game they showed looks bad. Its a cell shaded Myst except pretty much every single puzzle of the dozens they showed looked to use the same mechanic and its even coming to pc.
None of these games are coming out near release with the unlikely exception of Watchdogs which also releases on current systems. Unless they've have some kind of big reveals for the future people who thought Nintendo's launch was sparse ain't seen nothing yet. Third parties aren't going to be releasing games near launch that aren't cross gen ports since the expense would pretty much bankrupt them.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Kytim89 on February 21, 2013, 12:48:40 AM
The bottom line is can the Wii U can toe-to-toe with the PS4?
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Ymeegod on February 21, 2013, 12:48:47 AM
There was some gameplay screenshots anyhow--the car demo and Capcom's Dragon beast thing did show signs of a hud. But yeah, I'm not falling for "kllzone" in game trailer again (cough Killzone 2/E3 show cough).
And I dont' think Sony stated it was 8GB of DDR5--people assume that but I think the official word was "fast memory" which could be just DDR3. Or they could even have another mixed configuration.
Not loving the whole game-touch-pad thing or the whole kinect copy/move stuff. Rather keep the price low and dropped those "features" altogether.
Happy about hearing about "crossplay" with the vita--now we have to see if Sony can make it happen.
No price point--I'm guessing we won't hear anything official until fall --I'm expecting at least $400 with maybe a crappy tossaway game bundled with it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: broodwars on February 21, 2013, 01:02:10 AM
There was some gameplay screenshots anyhow--the car demo and Capcom's Dragon beast thing did show signs of a hud. But yeah, I'm not falling for "kllzone" in game trailer again (cough Killzone 2/E3 show cough).
Guerilla Games confirmed that that footage was actual in-game gameplay. Besides, you can tell it was real-time b/c of the framerate dropping during the part with people running away from the attack after the explosion, as well as the HUD. And yes, I've seen the infamous Killzone 2 trailer.
The more I think about tonight's show, the less excited I am for the PS4 and it's odd because I was really anticipating getting behind this console before today. The confirmation by Sony that my 65 PS3 physical games (including games in collection form) will be paperweights to the PS4 really dampens my enthusiasm. In fact, the whole business is very depressing. I've already lost one PS3 to the Yellow Light of Death, & I just know I'm going to lose the other one the same way at some point. I don't want online streaming of PS3 games I'd probably have to repurchase. I don't want all this online B.S. Sony touted tonight. They didn't even show the usefulness of that Dualshock 4 touch pad, probably because even Sony hasn't figured out what to do with it yet.
I'm surprised to find myself saying this, but I may have to go Microsoft next generation unless their reveal shows the Durango as opposing to my interests as the PS4 reveal seems to have done. They may not have backwards compatibility, either, but I'd only be losing access to 6-7 games and I rarely use my 360 as it is so it probably has many years left on it.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 21, 2013, 01:03:51 AM
What I find interesting about this is that Microsoft now has all the cards on the table. If Microsoft was going to only do 6 Gigs or RAM they could decide to do more. If Microsoft wants they can still change their designs some...nothing has been set in stone for them. Plus, they have no release date announced.
Personally, if I was Microsoft I would take a wait and see. Wait one more year and launch 2014. Launch with specs comparable or better than PS4 at a cheaper price, and rank in one more year worth of profit on the Xbox 360...afterall, I don't see people jumping ship on an expensive PS4 system yet.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 21, 2013, 01:10:36 AM
Background Downloading (& predictive d/l from the SonyStore) BC through Gaikai Streaming Connectivity to Vita, Smartphone & tablets Remote play
Games: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130221c_e.pdf (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/130221c_e.pdf) Knack: http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/coeidy/knack-ps4-debut-trailer--stream- (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/coeidy/knack-ps4-debut-trailer--stream-) Deep Down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d9UmHm9HA3c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d9UmHm9HA3c) Destiny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kJkiwDeWqQ&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kJkiwDeWqQ&feature=youtu.be) Infamous: Second Son: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGnJCxrXeOc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGnJCxrXeOc) Killzone 4: Shadow Fall: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sXS5zYLsupw&hd=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sXS5zYLsupw&hd=1) DriveClub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u541wKmf0UU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u541wKmf0UU) The Witness Watchdogs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6LZM3_wp2ps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6LZM3_wp2ps) Diablo III
Holiday 2013
quoting for the new page.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: ShyGuy on February 21, 2013, 01:39:58 AM
My take on the games:
Knack:The art style on the humans is not good. This game wants to be the next Ratchet and Clank. - My Interest: eh.
Deep Down: The HUD looked like a mockup, the special effects were neat, I need to see more. - My Interest: hm, okay.
Destiny: Not a game you play for the story. The trailer seemed boring - My Interest: Yawn. Infamous: Second Son: May be decent, I like Seattle. I got tired of the first Infamous. - My Interest: eh. Killzone 4: Shadow Fall: Ugh, another Killzone. to steal a joke, at least it's in color. - My Interest: Yawn. DriveClub: Kinda cool, about one driving game a generation is enough for me. - My Interest: hm, okay. The Witness: Cool world, like the artstyle, This would be right up my alley except... EVERY PUZZLE IS PIPE DREAM! - My Interest: Torn like Natalie Imbruglia Watchdogs: Probably the least graphically impressive (next to Witness), but the gameplay looks fun! Need more haxoring! - My Interest: Hype! Diablo III:- Really? I've heard too many bad things about this game. - My Interest: eh.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: TrueNerd on February 21, 2013, 01:55:32 AM
Like most others here, I just kinda shrugged my shoulders at all of this stuff. The Killzone footage, a series I quite like, really didn't look much better/different than Killzone 2 and 3. To be fair, those two games are among the best looking games on the PS3, but still. That's how I felt about everything they showed. Nothing made me think I need to go throw down hundreds of dollars for this machine in nine months.
Honestly, the best part of the conference for me was something that they did NOT show, and that was The Last Guardian. Yes, for the first time ever, I'm glad that game wasn't shown because it brings me hope that it's still a PS3 game. The Last Guardian was in the back of my mind when I purchased my PS3 four and a half years ago and while I would not feel cheated if TLG was a PS4 exclusive, I would be bummed if it never even came out for the PS3.
And while this conference left me pretty unimpressed, I know that in the end Sony has an infinitely more appealing stable of first/second party of developers than Microsoft does. That's not going to change overnight and it's going to matter more as third party exclusives, even timed exclusives, truly become a thing of the past. It's happened already. So for me, unless Microsoft really blows us all out of the water, Sony will continue to be more appealing between those two.
Good news though, EuroGamer is confirming that used games will work on PS4.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 02:07:06 AM
I usually buy 2 consoles per generation which usually ends up being Nintendo then Sony. However, Sony's push for social this and personal info/space invasion that is a total anti-boner. Regardless of whether I can turn it off, I don't like the fact that it would exist on my console especially since in the fine print of the Terms and Conditions, they probably reserve the right to change whatever they want like set it back to default automatically after a major system update or something.
I like that I can completely ignore Home and how unobtrusive Miiverse is (besides asking me if I want to post something which gets old). I don't have to participate if I don't want and that's the end of it. Sony has taken the 1st step on a path I do not want to follow; Microsoft seems like they might leap frog Sony. If so, I'll stick with just Nintendo. Thanks. I want to want to pick up a PS4. The games aren't there yet and I'm weary of the new social features. As long as I can keep it offline besides updates, I'll pick one up eventually.
The only game Sony showed in that conference that even remotely interested me is Watch Dogs and that's coming out for Wii U. I was a bit surprised by Diablo III, only because it seems perfect for Wii U due to the GamePad's screen and all.
Why not start a new Official PS4 Thread? This is the rumor and speculation thread and the cat's out of the bag. I would, but I don't want to steal your hard work of gathering links, pics and such. Also, I would have to be responsible for updating the opening post and I can't be bothered.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2013, 02:10:45 AM
I'm kind of on the opposite end of broodwars, as I own a whole lot of 360 games and barely any PS3 games, so backwards compatibility isn't a huge thing for me. I'm also very, very interested in the Vita connectivity they talked about. I went into the event thinking that, if I'm going to buy another console, it would be Sony's and not Microsoft's, and is presentation did nothing to push me away from that.
Title: Re: PS4 (Orbis) Rumor/Speculation
Post by: Louieturkey on February 21, 2013, 02:17:15 AM
I actually enjoyed that. Nothing mind blowing and the length and procrastination in the presentation were horrible, but I think some of those features will be cool. Ymeegod, they did announce on the stream itself that it's 8GBs of GDDR5 Ram. I like the idea of instant demos of PSN games as well as being able to start playing the minute you buy the game. The live streaming thing is cool, though most gamers who do that will want the option to use Twitch instead of Ustream. I'm glad my Move controller is not forgotten and will be forward compatible. That demo with the instruments got me excited. It's the next level to take the Little Big Planet concept I think.
I still think this thing will be expensive though. There won't be a purchase by me until it's below at least $400 and possibly even $300.
Why all the Diablo III hate? I think it's an awesome game. Most of the hate put out there was about the just released game and the always online aspect of it. It has since evolved into something amazing and I think anyone that gave up on it should give it another chance. It also did not bomb. It was the highest selling PC game last year and I believe top 10 or possibly even top 5 selling game total last year.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Plugabugz on February 21, 2013, 07:18:20 AM
I'm going to call it. Like before, Europe sees a release in 2014.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ymeegod on February 21, 2013, 07:30:57 AM
"Ymeegod, they did announce on the stream itself that it's 8GBs of GDDR5 Ram."
Like I said, they said the GPU has DDR5 not that the entire 8GB was DDR5. Hense split configuration. That's my theory anyhow. Just like an current PC.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 09:24:49 AM
In addition confirming Sony is NOT blocking used games (which I think someone already mentioned in this thread), Shuhei Yoshida also confirmed that PS4 will not require an always online connection thus tempering the spy aspect I was worried about. I have a feeling the poor reception the rumors received forced Sony to reconsider. Good. This makes an eventual PS4 purchase for me more likely. I'm still planning on holding off due to monetary and basic gaming habit reasons. However, this eases my concerns a bit though I'm keeping an eye on this to see how it plays out. If 3rd parties would appropriately scale and port their games to Wii U, I would technically be able to skip PS4 altogether as I'm not too crazy about Sony's 1st party offerings anymore. God of War and Uncharted have gotten old to me (still good, just not good enough to justify a new console) so unless Sony wows me with something, I can wait or pass entirely.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 21, 2013, 09:38:42 AM
What did you guys think about the Wii U reveal because this was way better than both Wii U ae3,s.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 09:49:09 AM
About on par. None of them were special. 3DS was probably the best of the 3. The last hardware reveal that impressed me was Gamecube's because that one was simply magical. Nintendo made good and then some on that brief Metroid clip of Samus running down a hallway.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2013, 11:09:45 AM
Looking at the specs given. I'm a little disappointed to not see 802.11AC on their simply because the rest of it is up their.
As far as reveals go I'm a little tired of seeing the floating head render that we've seen in one form or another since Early 2000. Now if you show something with that head walking around and then zooming in to show the detail that be cool. Nothing looked like a gotta have or something that couldn't be pulled off more are less on current tech. As for the move, I hope the new camera improves it. Unfortunately though the whole BC thing means that my Wonderbook isn't going to be able to benefit from it. Which is something I was really looking forward too.
This whole presentation took me to: My PS3 has faithfully served me for over 6 years as a good media device with daily long use so, getting a PS4 as a transition would be good. To: Well... Does this even support DLNA?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caliban on February 21, 2013, 11:29:01 AM
Guns. Guns. Guns. Ropes.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on February 21, 2013, 11:38:58 AM
I agree that nothing showed looked like it couldn't be done on current systems. Which is probably good news for Wii U, if any fat lazy developers would actually port some titles. At least Watchdogs is coming. So far, the Sony exclusives are not moving me.
I'll probably do the same thing as last-gen: wait for PS4 price drop and until there is a must-have game that is not otherwise coming to WiiU. Last time out it was Arkham Asylum that pushed me into getting a PS3. No regrets since. PS3 was also a very good value because it has a Blu-Ray player. I really like Blu Rays, more than streaming. And they're so cheap now. I just got 7 Blus off of Amazon for $57.
If the Star Wars 1313 game is as fine as it looks and does not come to WiiU, that could be the game that pushes me to procure a PS4 eventually.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 21, 2013, 11:53:02 AM
Are you guys that big of Nintendo fanboys that you can't realize that most of the stuff they showed cannot be done on the Wii U? I can fully admit that. You think the Wii U can run Deep Down? lol whatever you say. The PS4 is MUCH more powerful than the Wii U.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2013, 12:05:44 PM
Are you guys that big of Nintendo fanboys that you can't realize that most of the stuff they showed cannot be done on the Wii U? I can fully admit that. You think the Wii U can run Deep Down? lol whatever you say. The PS4 is MUCH more powerful than the Wii U.
Out tof the things that we can confirm were actual game running. Yeah. Even Deep down looks doable in a Dragon Lair way. That particular demo I want to wait till I see something better looking then streaming also someone actually playing.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2013, 12:09:38 PM
Alright that is funny and accurate at the same time...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on February 21, 2013, 12:14:40 PM
So apparently along with the PS4 not playing PS3 games, it also won't play any of your digital content (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/psn-transfers-ps4/). Well, that's pretty much the last straw for me. Barring some game-changing exclusive reveal at E3, I'm not getting a PS4. With all the crap Sony's throwing into this thing that I don't want, I would have paid them for a model with backwards compatibility but apparently that's just too damn much for Sony. Their loss. Now I guess I'll be looking forward to whatever Microsoft's doing.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on February 21, 2013, 12:15:00 PM
Are you guys that big of Nintendo fanboys that you can't realize that most of the stuff they showed cannot be done on the Wii U? I can fully admit that. You think the Wii U can run Deep Down? lol whatever you say. The PS4 is MUCH more powerful than the Wii U.
Nobody knows for sure. I am just reacting to the fact that the games don't look like any sort of breathtaking leap above games that are available on current gen-tech. And the WiiU is already specked above the current gen of Microsoft and Sony. And yes, FanBoy
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Sarail on February 21, 2013, 12:21:00 PM
As far as reveals go I'm a little tired of seeing the floating head render that we've seen in one form or another since Early 2000.
The only thing this PS4 announcement showed me is that the majority of western game devs are graphics whores - and less focused on gameplay and play control. And those two aspects are the most important of any game's design.
I'll stay a Japanese gamer, thanks.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 21, 2013, 12:22:30 PM
So apparently along with the PS4 not playing PS3 games, it also won't play any of your digital content (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/psn-transfers-ps4/). Well, that's pretty much the last straw for me. Barring some game-changing exclusive reveal at E3, I'm not getting a PS4. With all the crap Sony's throwing into this thing that I don't want, I would have paid them for a model with backwards compatibility but apparently that's just too damn much for Sony. Their loss. Now I guess I'll be looking forward to whatever Microsoft's doing.
That actually makes me laugh in the face of any of those idiots who bitched that Nintendo would charge to transfer VC. But hey, at least they let you transfer over, right?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on February 21, 2013, 12:27:04 PM
So apparently along with the PS4 not playing PS3 games, it also won't play any of your digital content (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/psn-transfers-ps4/). Well, that's pretty much the last straw for me. Barring some game-changing exclusive reveal at E3, I'm not getting a PS4. With all the crap Sony's throwing into this thing that I don't want, I would have paid them for a model with backwards compatibility but apparently that's just too damn much for Sony. Their loss. Now I guess I'll be looking forward to whatever Microsoft's doing.
That actually makes me laugh in the face of any of those idiots who bitched that Nintendo would charge to transfer VC. But hey, at least they let you transfer over, right?
I still think that charge is ridiculous, but yeah as frustrating as Nintendo has been about that VC/WiiWare content on Wii U at least you can bring them over.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 21, 2013, 12:31:19 PM
And I don't know about you guys, but this whole "streaming BC" is stupid, considering that not everyone has extremely fast high-speed internet. I mean, mine is only fast enough to do one thing at a time with varying degree of success. My sister or mom use the internet whatsoever (which happens a lot)? Forget about it. I can barely play some CoD without it lagging, so streaming classic games will be impossible.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 21, 2013, 12:54:29 PM
As far as reveals go I'm a little tired of seeing the floating head render that we've seen in one form or another since Early 2000.
The only thing this PS4 announcement showed me is that the majority of western game devs are graphics whores - and less focused on gameplay and play control. And those two aspects are the most important of any game's design.
I'll stay a Japanese gamer, thanks.
Damn you western developers for brewing graphic whores for Sony.
*Sony shows three Japanese developed games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caliban on February 21, 2013, 01:01:55 PM
So apparently along with the PS4 not playing PS3 games, it also won't play any of your digital content (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/psn-transfers-ps4/).
It can play your digital titles, but only through the PS Cloud, and I assume it would be far easier to acknowledge that you own those titles so as to not have to purchase them again. The Disc based titles however... it's the PSP Go all over again.
So apparently along with the PS4 not playing PS3 games, it also won't play any of your digital content (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/psn-transfers-ps4/).
It can play your digital titles, but only through the PS Cloud, and I assume it would be far easier to acknowledge that you own those titles so as to not have to purchase them again. The Disc based titles however... it's the PSP Go all over again.
Well, I've watched last night's conference twice now, and all Sony said was that they were going to use their Gaikai tech to stream PS1/2/3 games. I haven't seen Sony quoted anywhere saying that your previous digital purchases would carry over via this streaming service.
And yeah, my retail PS3 discs are still useless to this device, so that's probably $100+ in trade-in credit from my PS3 I wouldn't have for a PS4 even if I wanted one. So that's probably a sale lost for Sony.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 01:41:12 PM
I'm confused about the anger toward the streaming thing. Is Sony saying that you can't download previously purchased digital content onto the PS4 HDD and have to stream instead? That's what it sounds like to me. So, you can still play your PS3 digital content on PS4, but you can't download them; you have to stream. It's just less convenient because the servers or your internet could go down and you don't have access to it. I'd be glad this is even an option because Sony could have said, "Suck it, buy everything again if you want it." I understand some disappointment, but this wouldn't be a reason for me not to buy a PS4.
Backwards compatibility is nice, but I still consider it extra. I don't need it so the streaming option is fine to exist with me even if I won't use it. I've all but decided to try 50/25 FiOS when I move in April so streaming wouldn't be an issue for me. Still, I won't be taking part in streaming my disc based PS3 games. I'm not paying more for games I already own just play them on a new console. I will still own a PS3 and it plays the games just fine.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 21, 2013, 01:43:31 PM
So apparently along with the PS4 not playing PS3 games, it also won't play any of your digital content (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/psn-transfers-ps4/).
It can play your digital titles, but only through the PS Cloud, and I assume it would be far easier to acknowledge that you own those titles so as to not have to purchase them again. The Disc based titles however... it's the PSP Go all over again.
Well, I've watched last night's conference twice now, and all Sony said was that they were going to use their Gaikai tech to stream PS1/2/3 games. I haven't seen Sony quoted anywhere saying that your previous digital purchases would carry over via this streaming service.
My suggestion: hold onto your PS3. That's my plan. Also, I'd say wait for the games to actually show up. There may eventually be a game on the PS4 that is a system seller for you. With the news about no physical BC, it sucks. But maybe wait to jump ship completely until all the details are out.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TrueNerd on February 21, 2013, 01:46:28 PM
Are you guys that big of Nintendo fanboys that you can't realize that most of the stuff they showed cannot be done on the Wii U? I can fully admit that. You think the Wii U can run Deep Down? lol whatever you say. The PS4 is MUCH more powerful than the Wii U.
First, we haven't come anywhere near seeing what the Wii U can do graphically yet. Second, sure, Deep Down was probably the most graphically impressive thing they showed. I question how much of that was actually gameplay, but the facial animations and lighting were above anything on current gen consoles. I guess my main thing is, so what? It's a slightly nicer looking Skyrim. This has been talked about for years now, but the smaller jumps between console generations has finally gotten small enough (at least on first glance) where the next jump doesn't really do much for me. In the end it'll be about the games and the PS4 will probably have some great ones, but I'm not going to get excited about incrementally better lighting models, AI, physics engines, facial animation tech, particle processing, etc. in an announcement trailer.
I of course reserve the right to change my mind if/when something mindblowing comes out in 2014/2015.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 21, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
"Ymeegod, they did announce on the stream itself that it's 8GBs of GDDR5 Ram."
Like I said, they said the GPU has DDR5 not that the entire 8GB was DDR5. Hense split configuration. That's my theory anyhow. Just like an current PC.
Sony officially announced the specs. It's 8GBs of GDDR5 Ram that the entire system uses. There is no more than that. Look up at what BnM posted direct from Sony. It specifically says 8GB GDDR5 Ram.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TrueNerd on February 21, 2013, 02:45:49 PM
Here's a great article that puts my thoughts, conscious and subconscious, into words.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 21, 2013, 03:05:55 PM
Okay tech geeks, is the Wii U last gen hardware compared to the PS4? That's what really matters here and that is probably the biggest factor in regards to what kind of support the Wii U will get. The PS4 specs aren't speculation anymore so we should know the answer.
I like how Square Enix gets on stage... and says pretty much nothing. And then Blizzard gets on stage and there's all this buzz... and it's a Diablo III port. What a double-team of letdowns. Why would anyone care about Diablo III on the PS4? Is that any different than Warcraft II on the Saturn or Starcraft on the N64? Now some sort of new game from Blizzard would have been a big deal.
The PS4 has not earned a sale from me but I'm not really looking into the Playstation brand. I bought a PS3 entirely to address the huge shortcomings of the Wii library. I don't WANT to make Playstation my main system so I didn't have any hype going in and still don't. If I get this it will entirely because Nintendo sent me there with a lousy product. Nintendo is the only one where I would go in thinking "I want this to be a product I would like to own."
Not locking out used games is great. MS wouldn't dare do it now so we get at least another generation before that bullshit gets brought up again - and by then it probably won't matter if the next gen to moves to download-only.
Sony is going nuts with all this online stuff but of every online device I own the PS3 is by FAR the slowest. Like my laptop and Wii just connect to my wireless internet and it just runs like a dream, as does any friend's laptop or tablet or smartphone when they're at my place. But the PS3 runs like it's on dial-up and it is right next to the Wii so it isn't like it's in a dead spot in the house. So, yeah, if Sony has all these online dreams for the PS4 they better make sure it's a little more efficient than the PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2013, 03:17:42 PM
My PS3 is wired. Though my PS3 in general has better internet performance then at least Shaymins and Broodwars.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 21, 2013, 04:02:55 PM
Do you guys honestly believe that the jumps aren't big this time around? You're kidding right? Much higher textures, actual AA this time (just for consoles though, PC has always had this), dynamic lighting, MUCH better particle effects. And instead of being sub-720p and being upconverted, it will be native 1080p.
It's like going from what we have already to CGI level graphics. In real time. If you don't think that the jump is huge, you are blind as a bat.
(Plus, better specs means [hopefully] better and smarter AI, but that can be seen with a trailer or screenshot.)
@Ian: Yes, sadly. The Wii U is 7.5 gen and PS4 is 8 gen, comparitively.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on February 21, 2013, 04:34:24 PM
Are you guys that big of Nintendo fanboys that you can't realize that most of the stuff they showed cannot be done on the Wii U? I can fully admit that. You think the Wii U can run Deep Down? lol whatever you say. The PS4 is MUCH more powerful than the Wii U.
First, we haven't come anywhere near seeing what the Wii U can do graphically yet. Second, sure, Deep Down was probably the most graphically impressive thing they showed. I question how much of that was actually gameplay, but the facial animations and lighting were above anything on current gen consoles. I guess my main thing is, so what? It's a slightly nicer looking Skyrim. This has been talked about for years now, but the smaller jumps between console generations has finally gotten small enough (at least on first glance) where the next jump doesn't really do much for me. In the end it'll be about the games and the PS4 will probably have some great ones, but I'm not going to get excited about incrementally better lighting models, AI, physics engines, facial animation tech, particle processing, etc. in an announcement trailer.
I of course reserve the right to change my mind if/when something mindblowing comes out in 2014/2015.
alot of that hardware will likely go to that video recording stuff so i dont expect much more then the wii u in terms of noticeable difference
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 04:37:26 PM
Do you guys honestly believe that the jumps aren't big this time around? You're kidding right?
CGI level graphics is a bit of hyperbole. I can tell there's greater detail; I just don't care about it. Wii U is high definition so the difference between what it can produce and what PS4 can is considerably less jarring than Wii and PS3. It's not like Wii U isn't capable of producing nice visuals. It is and it will and that's what's really important. At the PS4 unveiling, they were acting like we were force fed dog poo the last 6+ years with PS3-level graphics. I'm well past the point where developers can impress me with graphics alone because so many games looks so F-ing good these days, even on hardware from 2005-2006. They spent a lot of time on bang-bang explosions. I just shrugged my shoulders because I have that today. It still looks good, just not PS4 good and I'm okay with that. I may get a PS4 one day, but nothing they showed last night convinced me that I wanted one right away. What else you got, Sony?
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Post by: Oblivion on February 21, 2013, 04:39:42 PM
I understand that completely, and I agree. But to that they cannot see the difference between the two, and say that the jump is not a large jump, is completely false. If 4k TV's had picked up just in time for the PS4 release, we would've had another PS3 vs. Wii situation.
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Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2013, 04:45:59 PM
I seriously doubt that because if this generation is any indication the PS4 would still do 1080p and not 4k native.
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Post by: TJ Spyke on February 21, 2013, 04:47:40 PM
LOL, 4K TV's do exist but they are absurdly expensive and the difference it quality is not noticeable. The human eye can not see any difference unless you TV is like 80 inches. And the jump in quality for the PS4 is not huge. Trying to make any system or game 4K would be pointless because it would be a waste of time and money to do it because no one will see the difference between 1080p and 4K.
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Post by: ShyGuy on February 21, 2013, 04:58:43 PM
What about movies or music you bought from Sony on your PS3? Will those transfer?
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Post by: Ian Sane on February 21, 2013, 05:12:57 PM
I can see a difference in those clips. It isn't like N64-to-Gamecube but I do see a difference. I cannot imagine the Wii U pulling that stuff off.
But Nintendo has not exactly impressed graphically with their Wii U output yet. They do themselves no favours in making their system look last gen. There is nothing on the Wii U right now that would even stand out visually on the PS3. NSMB U looks like Nintendo playing catch-up to the previous gen with graphics that are at best merely acceptable. It doesn't look like that they're trying to show off the hardware at all.
That Zelda video did impress me, but didn't look as nice as the Killzone or Witness videos did here. Nothing that Nintendo showed at that recent Nintendo Direct, which included some games I'm really interested in, looked comparable. They looked like if Nintendo made PS3 games.
While the PS4 has not earned a purchase from me, it has done a good job of making me less interested in the Wii U. It's just another Wii and that's exactly what I DON'T want.
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Post by: broodwars on February 21, 2013, 05:28:23 PM
What about movies or music you bought from Sony on your PS3? Will those transfer?
I'd actually be surprised if they didn't, considering those just require a simple codec upgrade to whatever the PS4's already using for video playback. I doubt Sony wrote code into PSN videos to render using the Cell processor.
And yeah, just the sheer amount of open space & the shine off the glass in that Killzone trailer show things the PS3 and Wii U probably can't do. It's a pretty large leap in graphical fidelity, though I question the system's ability to sustain that level of visuals over the course of a full game. Anything can look great in a small demo...*cough* Aliens: Colonial Marines *cough*
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Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 05:36:32 PM
@Ian We clearly want very different things. The new Killzone may have whiz-bang effects coming out of its ass, but I would take the Zelda demo over the Killzone demo any day. If the next Zelda uses the demo art style (Twilight Princess inspired, but Link's design looked a bit more cartoony) and looks even better (it would), I couldn't ask for more from what I imagine a Zelda game would look like. I'm sick of these games like Killzone that all look the same. Zelda even with paltry Wii U graphics is bound to have some damn charm and personality.
You can keep your explosions and pew-pew if the choices are that and Zelda.
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Post by: Luigi Dude on February 21, 2013, 05:42:39 PM
I can see a difference in those clips. It isn't like N64-to-Gamecube but I do see a difference. I cannot imagine the Wii U pulling that stuff off.
But Nintendo has not exactly impressed graphically with their Wii U output yet. They do themselves no favours in making their system look last gen. There is nothing on the Wii U right now that would even stand out visually on the PS3. NSMB U looks like Nintendo playing catch-up to the previous gen with graphics that are at best merely acceptable. It doesn't look like that they're trying to show off the hardware at all.
That Zelda video did impress me, but didn't look as nice as the Killzone or Witness videos did here. Nothing that Nintendo showed at that recent Nintendo Direct, which included some games I'm really interested in, looked comparable. They looked like if Nintendo made PS3 games.
While the PS4 has not earned a purchase from me, it has done a good job of making me less interested in the Wii U. It's just another Wii and that's exactly what I DON'T want.
And what the hell is wrong with Nintendo games looking like PS3 games? That would still make their Wii U games look lightyears better then their Wii games did since the Wii U is way more powerful then the Wii. Who gives a **** if Zelda wont look as good as Killzone, it'll still be the best looking Zelda game ever made by a huge margin.
By this logic, are you going to sell all your PS3 games when the PS4 is released because they suddenly don't look as good anymore? Of course if graphics bother you that much you shouldn't even own a console Ian, since PC games on their max setting are always beyond their console counterparts.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: SixthAngel on February 21, 2013, 05:44:55 PM
Do you guys honestly believe that the jumps aren't big this time around? You're kidding right? Much higher textures, actual AA this time (just for consoles though, PC has always had this), dynamic lighting, MUCH better particle effects. And instead of being sub-720p and being upconverted, it will be native 1080p. It's like going from what we have already to CGI level graphics. In real time. If you don't think that the jump is huge, you are blind as a bat.
The difference isn't big because the new graphics aren't letting us do anything new. In the same way the ps3 and 360 was much smaller than the previous gen and imo wasn't really justified until things like dead rising came out that needed the horsepower for more enemies. These are the games most people seem to be talking about. 1. Watchdogs- It will actually be on the WiiU as well as the older consoles. The extra shininess doesn't change what you can do at all. 2. Killzone- Another fps and the detail doesn't seem to change what you can do. Flying on the helicopter is a scripted on rails scene like we've had before. 3. Deep Down- The fakest thing I've seen in ages. The animations are 100% made for the demo and just the demo and nothing is actual gameplay. Fighting a dragon is nothing new.
I'll say the jump is big when they show me something new I can do, not the same thing but shinier.
3. Deep Down- The fakest thing I've seen in ages. The animations are 100% made for the demo and just the demo and nothing is actual gameplay.
You know, I thought the same thing the first time I saw the footage, but after rewatching the conference last night I'm not so sure. There were a couple of times during the trailer when I could have sworn I saw a HUD element in the corner of the screen (some kind of rectangular, card-looking thing). There may have been actual gameplay mixed in with some cinematics.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on February 21, 2013, 05:50:18 PM
LOL, 4K TV's do exist but they are absurdly expensive and the difference it quality is not noticeable. The human eye can not see any difference unless you TV is like 80 inches. And the jump in quality for the PS4 is not huge. Trying to make any system or game 4K would be pointless because it would be a waste of time and money to do it because no one will see the difference between 1080p and 4K.
agreed upscaled maybe
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 21, 2013, 05:51:07 PM
Just rewatched the Killzone Trailer. You can see where your going from cinematic to Having control to On Rail Shooter. There is a part where all the suddenly Glass shows up and the city pops in.
3. Deep Down- The fakest thing I've seen in ages. The animations are 100% made for the demo and just the demo and nothing is actual gameplay.
You know, I thought the same thing the first time I saw the footage, but after rewatching the conference last night I'm not so sure. There were a couple of times during the trailer when I could have sworn I saw a HUD element in the corner of the screen (some kind of rectangular, card-looking thing). There may have been actual gameplay mixed in with some cinematics.
Back to Dragon Lair like.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2013, 05:51:29 PM
The PS4 is certainly an improvement, but it's not as much of one as the PS3 was, which itself wasn't as much of one as the PS2 was. It's a clear case of diminishing returns. The Wii U isn't going to look nearly as dated as the Wii did, for a number of reasons.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: SixthAngel on February 21, 2013, 05:57:19 PM
3. Deep Down- The fakest thing I've seen in ages. The animations are 100% made for the demo and just the demo and nothing is actual gameplay.
You know, I thought the same thing the first time I saw the footage, but after rewatching the conference last night I'm not so sure. There were a couple of times during the trailer when I could have sworn I saw a HUD element in the corner of the screen (some kind of rectangular, card-looking thing). There may have been actual gameplay mixed in with some cinematics.
There wasn't any gameplay mixed in. They did stick a hud on the screen 2 times but its just a mock up tacked on for the video. The entire thing is shown from "cinematic" angles that are terrible for gameplay. Beyond that the animations on certain parts are way too fluid to not be made just for this video. I don't know how much, if any of it was actually game assets.
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Post by: Ian Sane on February 21, 2013, 06:04:43 PM
@Ian We clearly want very different things. The new Killzone may have whiz-bang effects coming out of its ass, but I would take the Zelda demo over the Killzone demo any day. If the next Zelda uses the demo art style (Twilight Princess inspired, but Link's design looked a bit more cartoony) and looks even better (it would), I couldn't ask for more from what I imagine a Zelda game would look like. I'm sick of these games like Killzone that all look the same. Zelda even with paltry Wii U graphics is bound to have some damn charm and personality.
You can keep your explosions and pew-pew if the choices are that and Zelda.
I would rather play Zelda as well. I don't give two shits about Killzone as a game. BUT when I see that movie clip I'm pretty certain that the Wii U can't do that.
So why do I care? Am I just some graphics whore? No, it's because of what happened on the Wii where the hardware gap was too big for third parties to include the Wii in their multiplatform development so we got bullshit spinoffs "designed for the Wii audience" or NOTHING. This isn't some hypothetical situation, this HAPPENED.
But, no, this idea is like a brand new concept every time it comes up. Let's just ignore the reality of the Wii and decide that anyone who isn't immediately on board with the Wii U is some graphics whore.
If the hardware isn't up to snuff, the third party support is going to be **** JUST LIKE BEFORE. It's really simple.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2013, 06:10:18 PM
I don't think it'll be just like before. With the Wii a lot of the support it got was influenced by the massive casual audience it had, which it does not at all appear the Wii U will. If I had to guess, the Wii U will see less support, but the support we get will be more oriented at people like us, but it's way too early to know. The way it looks now, Wii U third party support seems more likely to follow the GameCube route than the Wii's.
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Post by: Louieturkey on February 21, 2013, 06:16:36 PM
My PS3 is wired. Though my PS3 in general has better internet performance then at least Shaymins and Broodwars.
Mine is wired too and internet is great on it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on February 21, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
what about multiplats... could we see versions of ps4 games rendered at 720p on the wii u
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Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2013, 06:34:11 PM
It's going to depend on the game. Some games are going to use the increased specs more than others, and that's going to affect how hard it will be to port them to the Wii U.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 21, 2013, 06:34:17 PM
The way it looks now, Wii U third party support seems more likely to follow the GameCube route than the Wii's.
Not sure if that's good or bad.
Yeah, neither am I.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 21, 2013, 06:43:59 PM
Considering how expensive 360/PS3 development still is, how many developers are really going to take advantage of the PS4's full power? According to the rumors, the 720 is suppose to be weaker then the PS4 which already makes a lot of the PS4's power worthless to anyone that isn't a Sony first or second party. For the next couple years, most third party games are going to be made to be very scalable to all systems. With current budgets still to high, most major third party series will still get 360/PS3 versions, which should guarantee Wii U versions assuming sales take off this holiday which a price cut and Mario Kart should do.
Plus we have no idea how sales of the 720/PS4 are going to be either. Considering with 8GB of GDDR5 Ram pretty much guarantees the PS4 will be at least $500 at launch, that system probably ain't going to be getting a huge userbase anytime soon. Plus if the rumors are true and the 720 doesn't allow used games and forces always online and a ton of Kinect bullshit down peoples throats, Microsoft probably won't be doing much better either. If the 720/PS4 sales are ****, then the Wii U could end up like the PS2 where all the third party games are made with its hardware in mind and the 720/PS4 are just upscaled versions that look better, but not a huge jump.
People have to remember the Wii was the last system released last gen and used modified Gamecube hardware which third parties didn't have much experience with, and well over a year after they already invested heavily in 360/PS3 development because they thought these systems would take off and the Wii would be another Gamecube. The Wii U on the other hand is the first next gen system on the market by over a year, uses hardware that's similar to the 360/PS3 so third parties are more familiar with it, and third parties aren't as eager to suddenly jump onto more powerful beast since current budgets are still too high and they remember how badly they were burned last gen.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 21, 2013, 06:46:51 PM
It was announced that the PS4 can render video in 4K but no games would support that. It makes me wonder if the bluray movie standard will be upgraded to include 4K and the PS4 either ships with it or be upgradeable to it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 21, 2013, 06:54:02 PM
People have to remember the Wii was the last system released last gen and used modified Gamecube hardware which third parties didn't have much experience with, and well over a year after they already invested heavily in 360/PS3 development because they thought these systems would take off and the Wii would be another Gamecube. The Wii U on the other hand is the first next gen system on the market by over a year, uses hardware that's similar to the 360/PS3 so third parties are more familiar with it, and third parties aren't as eager to suddenly jump onto more powerful beast since current budgets are still too high and they remember how badly they were burned last gen.
In some ways they are similar (all three systems have cpu/gpu's made by AMD, but that is where they end. The Wii U is 60% proprietary tech, so the way things are rendered on the Wii U would be different than how they are on the PS4. There would have to be some great middleware that would help in porting the games from one system to the other for your idea to happen.
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Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 21, 2013, 07:06:00 PM
I'm really bummed by the lack of backwards-compatibility. They won't even let us transfer our PSN purchases. I understand that the PS4 uses standardized PC components (much like the Xbox 360), but backwards-compatibility can still be achieved through software emulation. You can't even use the PS3's DualShock 3 controller on the PS4, but the Move still works. Go figure...
Even Nintendo managed to emulate the original Wii's OS on the Wii U, AND they let us transfer all most of our existing Wii content (WiiWare, Virtual Console, save data).
Do any of you think Microsoft will have full backwards-compatibility with the Next Xbox? If they use standardized PC components again, then it may very well be achievable (either through software emulation or miniaturized Xbox 360 chips). All we'd have to do is sign in with our Xbox Live accounts, and all our purchases would be transferred over.
Why couldn't Sony make it that easy?
On a more positive note, I love how unique the DualShock 4 controller is. The rounded edges will make it more comfortable to hold, and the touchpad will make menu navigation more intuitive. And porting from smartphones/tablets will be much easier now that the controller has touch input.
The "PlayStation App" for mobile devices sounds A LOT like Xbox's SmartGlass; it's like the same damn thing. And that new PS Eye camera is essentially a clone of Kinect, just with a higher resolution. Not very innovative there, Sony.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 21, 2013, 07:22:03 PM
The way it looks now, Wii U third party support seems more likely to follow the GameCube route than the Wii's.
Not sure if that's good or bad.
Gamecube level support would be an improvement. At least then we either got the real game or we didn't get anything. They didn't make patronizing spin-offs that implied that Nintendo owners couldn't handle "real" games.
On the Cube I felt like I owned a normal videogame system that just didn't have that great of support. On the Wii I felt like I had purchased the kid's meal by mistake and that third parties figured I was five years old.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 21, 2013, 07:24:26 PM
About the PS4 reveal:
I was expecting to see something NEW, but all we were shown was the same games just with "shiny, pretty, more realistic" graphics. The social features are nice (a big step up from Xbox Live); but Microsoft is already quickly heading down that road, so they will easily surpass Sony on that front.
That being said, Mark Cerny's new game looks intriguing, but the rest was just "been there, done that".
It's basically an extension of everything we've seen since the PS2/GameCube/Xbox1 era. Where's the "wow"? Where's the "I've never seen that before" stuff? Social features and streaming games/media are nice, but is that all the PS4 has to offer? I do like that you can stream PS4 games to the Vita, but I doubt Sony will support that feature much.
I know Sony is saving the big guns for E3, but it better not be more Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, Gran Turismo, God of War, etc. Give us something NEW.
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Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2013, 07:28:59 PM
From what I was reading it sounded like Sony was saying that the PS4-Vita streaming would support every PS4 game.
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Post by: EasyCure on February 21, 2013, 07:47:42 PM
Okay tech geeks, is the Wii U last gen hardware compared to the PS4? That's what really matters here and that is probably the biggest factor in regards to what kind of support the Wii U will get. The PS4 specs aren't speculation anymore so we should know the answer.
if that's all that matters.. you're doing 'gaming' wrong..
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Post by: Stogi on February 21, 2013, 07:53:48 PM
PS4
Wii U
Durango/Xbox 720....
Names suck these days.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: EasyCure on February 21, 2013, 08:01:54 PM
But, no, this idea is like a brand new concept every time it comes up. Let's just ignore the reality of the Wii and decide that anyone who isn't immediately on board with the Wii U is some graphics whore.
I'm not implying that you're a graphics whore. This isn't graphics vs. gameplay. It's graphics vs. art direction. You pointed out that the Zelda demo didn't look as nice as the Killzone demo. Because of Killzone's generic shooter #7456 art direction, I would still say Zelda looks better despite the Wii U's inability to produce the same amaz-O effects.
Quote
If the hardware isn't up to snuff, the third party support is going to be **** JUST LIKE BEFORE. It's really simple.
Except it's not. If hardware was the only barrier, 3rd parties can take advantage of Wii U hardware right now with games that are coming out RIGHT NOW and they can stop immediately when the hardware isn't capable of handling ports. But they aren't because water is wet or cats sometimes sneeze or whatever other ridiculous reasoning they come up with for not supporting a console that is currently more powerful than any other console out at the moment. No 3rd party has come out and given a straight answer but right now, it isn't about the hardware at all.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Stogi on February 21, 2013, 08:08:04 PM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 21, 2013, 08:14:31 PM
Most of that is pre-rendered stuff. PS4 looks to be a step up from the PS3 in terms of graphics, but it's not a huge leap like going from PS1/N64 to PS2/GameCube.
At least they improved the online functionality. The streaming features and real-time gameplay video uploads to USTREAM are very nice. But with the direction Microsoft is heading, they will easily surpass that with their Next Xbox.
Also, with all that super-powerful hardware packed into a console-size box, I can't wait to see all the reports of melted consoles this Christmas. ;) You thought the Red Ring of Death was bad...
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Post by: azeke on February 21, 2013, 08:22:34 PM
Watch Dogs was probably the only playable footage we saw.
And it was on PC.
And it's coming to Wii U anyways.
So yeah.
Anyway, i like Ono and Capcom's efforts with their engine (seriously MT Framework is amazing, see what Capcom was able to do with it on 3DS) but Ono was a bad fit (the first thing he says is that he's not here to talk about SF, then why you're here, dude?) and that was 100% scripted movie.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 21, 2013, 08:26:19 PM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 21, 2013, 08:27:32 PM
Only thing that was pre-remdered was deep down and maybe a part of the new kill zone.
Infamous and Drive club were in engine.
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Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2013, 08:30:13 PM
I don't believe any of them are in-game until we actually get to play them. Look at the PS2 and PS3 reveals and you'll see why I feel that way. The PS2 event showed off graphics that the PS3 couldn't pull off.
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Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2013, 08:31:51 PM
I broke my glasses because I facepalmed so hard. Thanks...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caterkiller on February 21, 2013, 08:37:29 PM
I like these visuals for PS4 and at the same time i'm not gasping at what I saw. It's very much what I expected. Some games today look darn near CGI to me and these games improve on that. That capcom thing I don't buy for a second though. As was stated earlier those angles and animations for attacking and such were so scripted and premade that it was in no way someone actually playing. Then they throw in the BS HUD with the weapons select and all I can do is laugh. Don't get me wrong I don't doubt a game like that will be possible eventually but that trailer looked like a big lie to me. I'll gladly eat my words when I see someone playing the game.
I thought Killzone looked great, but things like that city don't fool me for a moment. Back ground in a scripted event that is impossible to interact with. I hope big open world games come close to this.
As for the graphics in the future I really can't wait to see what's coming by the consoles end, I figure U games will look like this eventually. I don't doubt this thing can outperform Wii U in the long run but this is hardly a Wii to PS3 issue we got going here. And if the 720 takes off this time around and is weaker all that extra hardware wont mean squat for all the multiplat 3rd parties that everyone craves.
Two bold predictions: 1 - I'll be shocked if Wii U couldn't produce these visuals at some point or even something better.
2 - I'll also be surprised if Wii U gets the same crappy 3rd party support Wii did.
What do we have from Nintendo to compare to games like Killzone and Dino Thunder? Nothing really, Mario and Pikmin basically started off with Wii assets and not to mention the cartoon art style. I suppose X is the closest we have to a "realistic" looking game but it's a huge open world game where if you see something on the horizon you can go there unlike most of the games at the PS4 meeting.
The Zelda demo stands toe to toe with these things in that it just looks absolutely beautiful, but it has the disney pixar look as well so aside from the environment it's hard to compare. When realistic ground up Wii U games are made then we'll have a better idea.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on February 21, 2013, 08:42:01 PM
Honestly, they've kind of always sucked. Revolution was at least a badass code name.
You are obviously forgetting about the Dreamcast, Sega Genesis, and the fiscally deplorable Jaguar.
You got me on Dreamcast, I actually did forget about it (sorry DC fans!) and it is a cool name, however I never liked the sound of Sega Genesis (Genesis made me think of the band of the same name (http://youtu.be/t_7iA7cuyfQ), which a relative really liked, and while I'll admit I also forgot about Jaguar because I'd only ever heard of it once back in the day (and never saw it in stores), still makes me think of the car. The same way I don't like how the World Wildlife Foundation will never be 'the real' WWF to me I guess (and I don't even like WWF).
I don't believe any of them are in-game until we actually get to play them. Look at the PS2 and PS3 reveals and you'll see why I feel that way. The PS2 event showed off graphics that the PS3 couldn't pull off.
That's how I've felt about game trailers since PS1 era since most of the ads I remember seeing were practically bullshots. If I saw a trailer that looked like this (http://youtu.be/noSg9_ZuUAI) but played like this (http://youtu.be/Zmj8VFDupus) I'd feel pretty duped and a tad pissed.
So yeah, until I see the game in action, I'll reserve judgement.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caliban on February 21, 2013, 11:24:26 PM
It's like going from what we have already to CGI level graphics.
Haha. You're funny.
Watch the Deep Down trailer. Watch that Square Enix Luminous tech demo.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on February 22, 2013, 01:09:42 AM
Totilo is throwing a wet blanket on Deep Down, make of it what you will:
Quote
The only game we saw last night that looked too good be to true was Capcom's tech-demo/work-in-progress/maybe-it's-a-game Deep Down.
These graphics don't look like extra-pretty PS3 graphics.
This was the one "game" shown that seemed so unbelievable that, with memories of 2006 in my head, I didn't believe it. No way that's real. Well, later in the evening I was talking to some people who've worked on the PS4. Not Capcom people, but developers. And they said, actually, sure, that's doable, maybe if you constrain the game you're designing. Maybe if you make it like a one-room-at-a-time dungeon crawler. A PS4 game could look that good.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 22, 2013, 01:16:11 AM
I think that seemed pretty obvious to me. It's like the original Killzone 2 demo when PS3 was announced. Non-Sony fanboys knew it was BS, and in the end the real Killzone 2 looked nowhere near as good. PS4 games will not look as good as that Deep Down CG video.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 22, 2013, 02:12:52 AM
Yeah, here's the original Killzone 2 trailer from E3 2005 for anyone that doesn't remember. Sony actual said this was actual in game footage at the time.
Even now, almost 8 years since this trailer was shown, nothing on the PS3 looks that good. Yeah some of the later PS3 games have gotten closer to looking like that, they're still not quite there yet. This is why anyone expecting PS4 games to be looking like Deep Down in the near future are going to be very disappointed.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caterkiller on February 22, 2013, 02:56:42 AM
Totilo is throwing a wet blanket on Deep Down, make of it what you will:
Quote
The only game we saw last night that looked too good be to true was Capcom's tech-demo/work-in-progress/maybe-it's-a-game Deep Down.
These graphics don't look like extra-pretty PS3 graphics.
This was the one "game" shown that seemed so unbelievable that, with memories of 2006 in my head, I didn't believe it. No way that's real. Well, later in the evening I was talking to some people who've worked on the PS4. Not Capcom people, but developers. And they said, actually, sure, that's doable, maybe if you constrain the game you're designing. Maybe if you make it like a one-room-at-a-time dungeon crawler. A PS4 game could look that good.
It's like going from what we have already to CGI level graphics.
Haha. You're funny.
Watch the Deep Down trailer. Watch that Square Enix Luminous tech demo.
Well yeah, those have CGI level graphics in the sense that they are CGI.
There is a video out there of a guy changing different parts of the Luminous demo on the fucking fly in real fucking time. Jesus people.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 22, 2013, 03:40:56 AM
If you honestly believe PS4 games are going to look that good, you're the one that's delusional. It's certainly better than the Wii U, but it's not that much better.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 22, 2013, 03:44:28 AM
If you honestly believe PS4 games are going to look that good, you're the one that's delusional. It's certainly better than the Wii U, but it's not that much better.
I never even said that the Luminous demo was a PS4 thing. You seem to think that it was CGI, when it isn't. It was changed ON A DIME. Do I need to spell it out any other way? CGI CANNOT BE DONE LIKE THAT. That demo is a lot (read: a fucking **** ton) better than what has been done so far on the Wii U. It might be possible far into the future, but nobody will know for sure at this moment.
I'm not trying to get in a graphics **** fest with you. But you should recognize what is leagues better than what we have so far.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 22, 2013, 03:51:04 AM
It was just a sarcastic remark, I wasn't trying to seriously argue anything. Deep Down is total bullshit, though.
I'm just saying, the PS4 isn't as good as stuff like that would make it seem. Sony has a history of exaggerations and outright lies regarding the capabilities of their new hardware.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Stogi on February 22, 2013, 06:27:49 AM
I don't even believe Zelda will look as good as it did last E3. I wouldn't want it to either. Bad art style.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 22, 2013, 07:25:39 AM
I expect Zelda U to look better than the demo. Besides the Project Reality demos, Nintendo tends to not exaggerate those. In fact, they usually look worse than the final product which is how it should be (getting more familiar with hardware yields better results therefore the demos should never look better). Comparing the Spaceworld 2000 demo reel for example to the corresponding games, the final games always looked better. And booooo, I liked the art style. I thought Link's face looked weird in both Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword (mainly his mouth and eyes). And I like the color palette more. I hope they stick with that look.
I really hate how Sony flashes their fake graphics peen at these events. It's annoying because PS4 games will look amazing. There's no need to exaggerate. It's one of the things that really bugs the hell out of me about Sony. They have such amazing 1st party teams capable of doing such amazing things and everyone knows this, but they still resort to that dishonest target demo bullshit. They're doing themselves a disservice by pushing such unattainable results. The games will absolutely look good; they don't have to look that impossibly good. Gah! I understand what they're trying to do, but I don't understand why they think they need to. Naughty Dog's and Sony Santa Monica's titles are going to speak for themselves.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on February 22, 2013, 08:48:33 AM
i expect two things will happen
a. the wii u will become the base platform like the 360 did for is cheaper hardware b. the wii u will become a gamecube with twice as much 3rd party support game-wise
i know nintendo does very well with finetuning the architecture as proven by the gamecube (the wii didn't have a chance to prove itself here) so that it can destroy the numbers but we dont know right now
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on February 22, 2013, 08:54:19 AM
I like these visuals for PS4 and at the same time i'm not gasping at what I saw. It's very much what I expected. Some games today look darn near CGI to me and these games improve on that. That capcom thing I don't buy for a second though. As was stated earlier those angles and animations for attacking and such were so scripted and premade that it was in no way someone actually playing. Then they throw in the BS HUD with the weapons select and all I can do is laugh. Don't get me wrong I don't doubt a game like that will be possible eventually but that trailer looked like a big lie to me. I'll gladly eat my words when I see someone playing the game.
I thought Killzone looked great, but things like that city don't fool me for a moment. Back ground in a scripted event that is impossible to interact with. I hope big open world games come close to this.
As for the graphics in the future I really can't wait to see what's coming by the consoles end, I figure U games will look like this eventually. I don't doubt this thing can outperform Wii U in the long run but this is hardly a Wii to PS3 issue we got going here. And if the 720 takes off this time around and is weaker all that extra hardware wont mean squat for all the multiplat 3rd parties that everyone craves.
Two bold predictions: 1 - I'll be shocked if Wii U couldn't produce these visuals at some point or even something better.
2 - I'll also be surprised if Wii U gets the same crappy 3rd party support Wii did.
What do we have from Nintendo to compare to games like Killzone and Dino Thunder? Nothing really, Mario and Pikmin basically started off with Wii assets and not to mention the cartoon art style. I suppose X is the closest we have to a "realistic" looking game but it's a huge open world game where if you see something on the horizon you can go there unlike most of the games at the PS4 meeting.
The Zelda demo stands toe to toe with these things in that it just looks absolutely beautiful, but it has the disney pixar look as well so aside from the environment it's hard to compare. When realistic ground up Wii U games are made then we'll have a better idea.
if the wii u can pull that off the gamepad could become the hud
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 22, 2013, 09:15:40 AM
a. the wii u will become the base platform like the 360 did for is cheaper hardware
I originally thought this would happen because it would allow games to be on every platform. Then, 3rd parties almost unanimously decided that Wii U owners can **** off. I get the feeling now that Wii U will mainly see 3rd party titles that appear on everything anyway (e.g. Call of Duty). Sony has managed strong support despite the expectation that development costs will continue to rise despite diminishing returns on graphics. It doesn't really make sense to me, but I'm still happy with my Wii U and if 3rd parties don't want my money, they can **** off too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 22, 2013, 10:12:12 AM
Lol at anyone expecting the Wii U to be a lead console because it was cheaper and had lower dev costs.
A few devs chimed and said that even though the PS4 is quite a bump , development hasn't pushed budget and manpower up by that much.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caterkiller on February 22, 2013, 10:40:04 AM
I'm noticing everywhere that the discussion of graphics is a fairly split issue. Yes they do look better and? Nintendo started talking about diminishing returns 10 years ago, much earlier than what was really happening but now I think we are truly seeing it. What are the next systems going to look like? I mean really, everyone should be glad Move and that little screen are included with that new controller, same goes for Kinnect. If that beautiful yet lame gameplay video of Killzone is anything to go by we'll be playing the same tired FPSs for years to come. I'm much more appreciative of the Upad now.
I'm in the boat where I think most of these demos are possible in real games but it will be a while. I also think some Wii U games are going to get there or extremely close. At the same time I am not impressed jumping up and down so I guess that makes me a blind bat who doesn't appreciate gaming. Can't get mad when someone doesn't think something is as pretty as you. Twilight Princess looks so much nicer than that tech demo, but ultimately I hated the art style for the game fell through for me its with its visuals.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 22, 2013, 10:57:18 AM
Lol at anyone expecting the Wii U to be a lead console because it was cheaper and had lower dev costs.
A few devs chimed and said that even though the PS4 is quite a bump , development hasn't pushed budget and manpower up by that much.
I don't think it's that crazy of an idea. Wii U is in between PS3/360 and their successors in terms of power, it's easy to develop for, and the 1st next generation console to launch (shut up anyone who doesn't think it's next gen).
I've read both. Right now, many developers are still using pre-existing engines. I don't expect it to change much with PS4 launch games, but those aren't going to blow PS3 out of the water anyway. Costs will go up, level off, then go up again depending on how much developers intend to push the hardware..
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 22, 2013, 11:07:46 AM
I knew OoT looked better then its Tech Demo. I'm a little surprised by Twilight Princess looking better than its Tech Demo, I'm skipping Wind Waker simply because not the same style at ALL. Makes me wonder how Zelda U will look in Regards to ITs Tech Demo, which technically will be just like Gamecube, Wind Waker then Tech Demo one.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caliban on February 22, 2013, 11:12:31 AM
It's like going from what we have already to CGI level graphics.
Haha. You're funny.
Watch the Deep Down trailer. Watch that Square Enix Luminous tech demo.
Oh yeah. Sure. They are running in real-time... on a buffed up PC. Not a PlayStation 4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 22, 2013, 12:36:14 PM
Holy ****, dude. I never said it WAS running on the PS4. But we do and will have CGI level graphics this time around this gen. I was reply to your moronic "her her yer funneh" comment. Do any of you guys have reading comprehension skills whatsoever?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 22, 2013, 12:44:40 PM
The "PlayStation App" for mobile devices sounds A LOT like Xbox's SmartGlass; it's like the same damn thing. And that new PS Eye camera is essentially a clone of Kinect, just with a higher resolution. Not very innovative there, Sony.
Sony has never been known for innovation, especially in gaming. They tend to take what another company did and either clone it or try to improve it in some way. They were the ones that first did a camera controller for a home console I believe though with the PS EyeToy for the PS2. Then they had the PS Eye for the PS3. Now they have the PS4 Eye. So technically, they are improving on their own design by borrowing some of the things in Kinect and improving on those as well. And yes, the PS App for iOS and Android look very similar to Smart Glass, though it sounds like Sony wants to make it where remote play works on there as well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on February 22, 2013, 12:46:49 PM
I'm actually fine when Sony does that, because they tend to improve on things in a great way.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 22, 2013, 12:59:15 PM
I'm actually fine when Sony does that, because they tend to improve on things in a great way.
*Looks at PS2 controller...Then at a PS3 controller...Then at a PS4 controller....*
Yeah **** this.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 22, 2013, 01:05:10 PM
You skipped the original Playstation controller which took one of the best designs ever and made it terrible. Seriously, how does anyone mess up the SNES controller? Sony found a way...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 22, 2013, 01:18:36 PM
You skipped the original Playstation controller which took one of the best designs ever and made it terrible. Seriously, how does anyone mess up the SNES controller? Sony found a way...
Not saying the SNES wasn't great, but the handles on the PS1 controller were better for bigger hands. The dual rumble in the DS1 controller was better than the N64 rumble and the GC rumble. The analog sticks in the DS1 controller were better made than the N64 controllers (too bad they haven't improved that since).
And I did say they tend to improve upon the original design they copied, not that they always improve upon it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caliban on February 22, 2013, 01:48:37 PM
Holy ****, dude. I never said it WAS running on the PS4. But we do and will have CGI level graphics this time around this gen. I was reply to your moronic "her her yer funneh" comment. Do any of you guys have reading comprehension skills whatsoever?
Do you fully understand the level of complexity in a single rendered CGI frame, let alone in a full scene? My reading comprehension skills are fine considering that English is not my first language, thank you.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on February 22, 2013, 02:22:48 PM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Caliban on February 22, 2013, 09:53:17 PM
Hah! A PC on steroids it ain't. PCs are ever changing. Consoles Stagnate for a period of years.
Once you've seen Gung Guns Guns Ropes you never go back to... a PC on steroids. I tried to be funny.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: EasyCure on February 23, 2013, 02:59:30 AM
I thought someone was trolling when they said Sony is putting out a wii-music type game.. :/
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 23, 2013, 03:18:37 AM
Sony doesn't just copy Nintendo's good ideas. For whatever reason, they've made a lot of the same mistakes as Nintendo over the years even after seeing Nintendo hurt by them. See: basically everything about the Vita launch.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ymeegod on February 23, 2013, 08:07:02 AM
Sony had a live demo of Killzone 4 on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon--the game's running 1080P/30fps. (http://www.gamechup.com/killzone-shadow-fall-footage-on-late-night-with-jimmy-fallon/)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: oohhboy on February 23, 2013, 08:39:17 AM
That video was unbelievably annoying. I was rather unimpressed by that video. At this point I am well past my graphics whore phase, leaving nothing else of interest.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: MrPhishfood on February 23, 2013, 11:11:09 AM
Sony had a live demo of Killzone 4 on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon--the game's running 1080P/30fps. (http://www.gamechup.com/killzone-shadow-fall-footage-on-late-night-with-jimmy-fallon/)
That looked like it could have been 60fps.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: EasyCure on February 23, 2013, 12:30:58 PM
Wish I could say I'm better at FPS games than Jimmy and the other guy were, but ever since Wiimote controls for shooters.. that's exactly what I look like playing on dual-sticks.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 24, 2013, 09:45:38 AM
So there is a rumor going around that gran turismo 6 is going to be for PS3 or at least a cross gen game. This could end uipbeing bad in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on February 25, 2013, 10:45:37 AM
Sony had a live demo of Killzone 4 on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon--the game's running 1080P/30fps. (http://www.gamechup.com/killzone-shadow-fall-footage-on-late-night-with-jimmy-fallon/)
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEH. I dunno, just looked like more of the same to me. Fun, but not Earth-shattering. And yes, the same criticisms can be leveled at WiiU and Mario U, etc. I just like those games better, I guess.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 25, 2013, 11:29:24 AM
That's been my honest reaction to New Super mario Bros U and it didnt help that NSMB2 had also released that year as well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Stogi on February 25, 2013, 11:44:29 AM
whoops wrong there....
Uh...the PS4 will be the most amazing system simply because it gets hacked before it ships.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on February 25, 2013, 12:31:05 PM
That's been my honest reaction to New Super mario Bros U and it didnt help that NSMB2 had also released that year as well.
I get what you're saying and I think it reinforces what I was trying to say: whether you're excited for WiiU or PS4 or neither or both basically comes down to personal preference.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 25, 2013, 03:08:24 PM
I think I'll wait and see where all the RPGs start falling and then make a decision. As it is now, the PS3 is still that system. I still have a feeling I'll be getting at least a Wii U (if not for X alone) and probably a PS4 when it's below $300. I actually shouldn't be getting either system anytime soon as my backlog of PS3 and Wii games is crazy.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on February 25, 2013, 03:20:59 PM
Don't known any next gen system so i'm waiting till E3 to decide which I want to get this coming fall.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 25, 2013, 04:58:43 PM
Shingi, you're going to get an Xbox Infinity for sure. You love the ecosystem and the cross compatibility. You will stick with Microsoft. The only question you should have is whether you will get a Wii U or a PS4 I'd think. My suggestion is the Wii U since Nintendo will have the better exclusives IMO. Or if you can afford it, just go balls to the wall and grab all three of them plus a Steam Box plus a 3DS and a Vita. Then you will never want for a game this generation. :)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 25, 2013, 05:05:34 PM
Shingi, you're going to get an Xbox Infinity for sure. You love the ecosystem and the cross compatibility. You will stick with Microsoft. The only question you should have is whether you will get a Wii U or a PS4 I'd think. My suggestion is the Wii U since Nintendo will have the better exclusives IMO. Or if you can afford it, just go balls to the wall and grab all three of them plus a Steam Box plus a 3DS and a Vita. Then you will never want for a game this generation. :)
Lol
I'll probably grab a Wii U alongside the Xbox. By this fall the Wii U is going to have a nice little library.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on February 25, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
wii u and pc most likely
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ymeegod on February 25, 2013, 08:09:34 PM
PC's dont' get enough Japanese loving for my taste--hense why I'm an Sony fanboy--I need my JRPG/Strategy games fix.
Either I can upgrade my PC (my current specs are medium-end--quad core/4GB ram/1GB VC) for $500ish or buy an PS3 which would play just about everything I want anyways minus a few exclusives MMO which I never bothered to get into.
My buy price of the PS4 is going be around $300 or so--so I'm going wait a year or so after launch but usually there's no major RPGs at launch anyhow and my backlog is still freaking high.
---------------------------
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 26, 2013, 09:49:49 PM
EA is implying that their PS4/720 games could cost $69.99 if Sony & MS allow it of course @ their investor meeting today.
hurry up and usher in the "next" generation of consoles already. my wallet is ready.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 26, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
EA is implying that their PS4/720 games could cost $69.99
Lol. Welcome to Australia.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 27, 2013, 01:21:37 PM
EA's games could be a buck and I wouldn't buy them. So unless other third parties follow along, that won't matter to me.
On the PS3 it is ridiculously easy to get great games at a cheap price. Wait like six months and the game is $20 new. Since I already do a lot of that now, $70 games won't change that. Now Nintendo rarely drops their prices and I often buy their games on day one so if they raised prices I would be upset but if they have not done it already with the Wii U being out I don't figure they'll suddenly switch.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 27, 2013, 02:08:44 PM
I'm the same way with 3rd party games and Nintendo games, but I'm trying to be patient with Nintendo games due to the buy 1 get 1 40%-50% off or buy 2 get 1 free deals that pop up every so often. If I suspect the game will be difficult to find, I'll pay full price (e.g. Xenoblade Chronicles).
EA currently has 1 franchise I care a lot about: NBA Jam. I'll still wait for sales, but EA can still have my money for that series. I wish I waited for the On Fire Edition though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: nickmitch on February 27, 2013, 04:07:21 PM
Speaking of, does the "On Fire Edition" have roster updates? That bugs me about the one I actually bought. Also, Blitz needs some updates for both rosters and the fact that the stat tracking is screwy and safeties don't show up in the box score.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on February 27, 2013, 04:44:11 PM
I believe the On Fire edition just got a roster update. My friend was telling me how he started the game recently after an update and Dwight Howard is on the Lakers now.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: nickmitch on February 27, 2013, 07:57:37 PM
****. Now, I totally feel like an asshole for jumping on the game right away. I may feel like a bigger one after buying the On Fire Edition in two weeks.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on March 10, 2013, 09:48:57 PM
did they confirm no psn transfer? thats what i heard
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 10, 2013, 09:51:55 PM
did they confirm no psn transfer? thats what i heard
Um, yes. That was announced at the PlayStation 4 unveiling back on February 20.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on March 15, 2013, 07:40:35 PM
So Famitsu did some interviews of different Japanese companies asking them three questions about the PS4 and what they thought of it. I really liked what Platinum Games producer Atsushi Inaba said:
Quote
Platinum Games Producer, Atsushi Inaba
"I got the impression that the competitive field for consoles is moving from basic performance specs to peripheral services."
"I'm not that interested in hardware specs like graphic processing. Of course, I thought [the PS4's specs] were quite impressive, but you can't win in a competition against PC gaming specs that are constantly evolving. I felt a great deal of potential in the peripheral stage that has been set to make use of new content. I'm also very interested in seeing what sort of reference content SCE will be bringing out so that the vision they have for the hardware is not diluted."
"If we can fully exploit the peripheral services, we may be able to deliver a different 'virtual world' from the previous consoles. I'd like to try that approach."[/l][/l]
To see other people's responses, go here (http://www.the-magicbox.com/1303/game130314e.shtml). The Capcom one made me giggle and the Sony one was basically an ad for the Dual Shock 4 controller. The Acquire CEO seemed very genuine as well. [/list]
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on March 27, 2013, 03:11:07 PM
Greg Miller from IGN is live tweeting from the SOny PS4 presentation. A few tidbits -PS4/Vita remote pay have the screens mirrored on both. Hardware does this and not something that Devs have to put time into. -A mock up showing heavy rain choices and showing you how many of your friends chose what. (similar to the end of every walking dead episodes) -raises the PS4 friend limit -You can buy games from the Playstion ios/android app and itwill start downloading at home. -You have to enable people to see your real name on PSN> if you import another social network this happens automatically. (can be turned off) -PS$ controller buttons are going back to digital since no one used analog controls. -The PS$ camera may be able to dtect when to go into splitscreen -PS4 cam suggested uses is for video content like let's plays and killcams -PS$ Camera has a dedicated I/o port so it wont be using USB or can plug into a PC. (boooo) -PS$ camera high sensity 1280X800 12 bits/pixels, 60GHZ -The light bar on the PS4 controller can be used for muzzle flashes or to indicate health -PS4 can charge controllers when its off -PS$ controller colors are 1-blue, 2-red, 3-Green, 4-pink (like the butons)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 03, 2013, 04:32:02 AM
I really hope Sony prices the PS4 affordably (under $400).
And I'd love to see Sony / Microsoft / Nintendo offer an official trade-in program, where you trade in your current console and get a discount on the purchase of a next-gen console.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: azeke on May 03, 2013, 05:05:40 AM
And I'd love to see Sony / Microsoft / Nintendo offer an official trade-in program, where you trade in your current console and get a discount on the purchase of a next-gen console.
It makes sense for Wii -> Wii U transfer, but PS4 is not compatible with with PS3 games so trading old console doesn't make sense.
Same for Microsoft's next console in case they will ditch BC as well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 03, 2013, 12:34:49 PM
I'm talking about trading in your old console and games towards a discounted purchase of the new hardware; similar to what GameStop does, but officially through Microsoft and Sony's websites.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 03, 2013, 03:26:50 PM
All indications are that the PS4 will be nowhere near sub-$400 levels, it's expected to be at least $450.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on May 03, 2013, 03:56:11 PM
I'm talking about trading in your old console and games towards a discounted purchase of the new hardware; similar to what GameStop does, but officially through Microsoft and Sony's websites.
Why the **** would you even take Sony/GameStop up on such an offer, considering the PS4 doesn't run any of your digital or retail games? There's no reason whatsoever to get rid of your PS3 when the PS4 comes out without some form of backwards compatibility.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on May 03, 2013, 07:39:04 PM
I'm talking about trading in your old console and games towards a discounted purchase of the new hardware; similar to what GameStop does, but officially through Microsoft and Sony's websites.
I don't think they'd do it. Knowing Sony, they still want people to be buying PS3s and their games while also buying PS4s and the games it gets. It's how they've done it every generation. Sony is probably the best of all console makers at continuing to support the previous generation hardware after the new gen has started.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 11, 2013, 12:12:58 AM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Mannypon on June 11, 2013, 01:41:21 AM
Will there be a wired remote for the PS4? I don't want to have 2 sensor bars on my entertainment center now :/.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 11, 2013, 01:54:00 AM
The PS camera is not compulsory. Unless you want to use move specifically, you won't need to worry about it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Mannypon on June 11, 2013, 02:10:26 AM
Good, thanks for clearing that up. I thought that eye thing was there camera. I figured that was a sensor bar for their wireless remote or something. Thank god, that damn thing looked huge and I don't need any more things on my entertainment center that'll attract my cat's attention lol.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 11, 2013, 02:14:39 AM
That was the camera, but it is an optional accessory. (At $59 I believe.)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 11, 2013, 02:24:50 AM
Apparently, PS4 is region free. (Not yet officially confirmed)
Edit: And yet another confirmation. [size=78%]https://twitter.com/yosp/status/344357778288152576 (https://twitter.com/yosp/status/344357778288152576)[/size]
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 11, 2013, 04:09:20 AM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shaymin on June 11, 2013, 07:43:24 AM
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my GIANT RAGING NERDGASM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: SixthAngel on June 12, 2013, 01:02:55 AM
PS4 looks good mainly because Xb1 looks like such ****.
The only game that really interested me was Final Fantasy 15 and I don't really know how I feel about it leaving turn based combat behind. I like jrpgs and there just aren't many left anymore. It has no release date anyway so I'm thinking Xmas 2014 if you're lucky.
That said I also won't be picking it up because I am not going to pay to play online
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 12, 2013, 08:23:20 AM
Its how I feel. From games and feature set alone I feel Xbone >PS4 but Xbone got those fucked up polices so I'm going PS4.
Was disappointed that Sony didn't show off any new first party stuff with the expectation of Order.
Also I wonder how much PS+ will hurt indie devs. I won't e buying the three games they announced at launch now under the logic that i'll just wait to get them free. The PS+ games is another compelling reason to get a PS4 over xbone for now.
What's even worse is that ot of the big three Sony had the worst showing and is somehow getting praise for barley doing anything and for not pissing on consumer rights.
Quote
They shift a lot since around Feb.[/size]Before E3: "Sony has soooo many 1st party studios, they're going to blow MS and Nintendo out of the water at E3". Post E3 and Sony barely showed anything: "lol DRM, 24 hour check-in, all exclusives are ****".Post May 21st: "lol TV, TV, TV, TV"Post E3 and Sony spent a nice chunk talking about TV, Movies and Music: "lol DRM, 24 hour check in, all exclusives are **** $99".I said before E3, that there was literally nothing MS could do at this point to turn this mack truck of negativity around. They were pretty much done "on the internet" from the second they announced their policies pertaining to the console. It's their own fault though. Which is more apparent when publishers comes out and say they apparently didn't ask for them to do this.
AN apt response of what happened. I personoally don't care about DRM/Always Online my self, but Its sad that Sony's being great on these fronts are overshadowing a conference that spent a chunk of time on TV (but its oh so bad when microsoft did it), a disturbing lack of first party software from what I consider the best of the big threee, and an Overrelaince on third party demos. [/size][/font]
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2013, 09:02:08 AM
I don't get why Sony is getting so much praise. All they did was maintain the status quo. They were rumored to be going Microsoft's route and probably got scared after the backlash it received. Yet all along Nintendo never once hinted at any of that anti-consumer garbage. They never got any praise for it and rightfully so. That's like receiving an award for being.
Internet: You're amazing, Sony. Sony: Oh, why thank you. What did I do? Internet: Nothing. Sony: Nothing? Internet: So much nothing. Nintendo: We didn't do anything either. Internet: Who let you out of the crawl space? Shoo, shoo! *Nintendo looks down in shame and walks away*
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on June 12, 2013, 10:26:32 AM
I don't get why Sony is getting so much praise. All they did was maintain the status quo. They were rumored to be going Microsoft's route and probably got scared after the backlash it received. Yet all along Nintendo never once hinted at any of that anti-consumer garbage. They never got any praise for it and rightfully so. That's like receiving an award for being. ...
While technically true you forgot a few things.
Timing for one. It was good timing for them compared to Nintendo. They brought Unexpected Games. Nintendo not so much. They brought items that didn't look like it was running on two consoles ago hardware. Nintendo not so much. Conference Stream was watchable. Nintendo Not so much. Nintendo had an Uphill battle to begin with due to poor performance of the MonHunU. Sony is building off of No Performance for the PS4 and good performance of the PS3. Now the most important of all... They brought Car Porn. Nintendo tried to but instead painfully reminded us that F-Zero is Dead.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 12, 2013, 12:51:40 PM
Dive Club stills needs some work to go. Currently its at 30 fps while Mario Kart/Forza are confirmed 1080/60 fps. Thefull game is also going to be free on PS+ for the first year of PS4. The only difference is the PS+ version wont have all the tracks and cars.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 12, 2013, 01:17:08 PM
A leaked vihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OegYm1dM9gdeo showing off the new UI. (http://i.imgur.com/NwxkdUo.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/0r6cyrf.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/hVolyza.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/gsaBXGC.jpg)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on June 12, 2013, 01:23:46 PM
Sony have on occasion taken risks. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt though. Who knows? Maybe a game based around synchronised diving could actually work.
:P:
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ian Sane on June 12, 2013, 01:30:46 PM
The Xbox One is an anti-consumer nightmare. The Wii U is effectively last gen hardware. Sony is winning on public perception entirely because they are offering a routine product people want - a next gen console that doesn't introduce a bunch of restrictive bullshit. That's it. They're not doing a hard sell on something you probably wouldn't like. They are the only one being conventional.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 12, 2013, 01:52:39 PM
A leaked vihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OegYm1dM9gdeo showing off the new UI. (http://i.imgur.com/NwxkdUo.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/0r6cyrf.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/hVolyza.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/gsaBXGC.jpg)
Props to Sony for apparently allowing you to choose which half of a game to download 1st, so if you don't give a **** about multiplayer (like I do), you just have to wait for the half that matters to finish downloading.
As for that UI, I'm not completely sold on it yet. I'd need to see it in motion, since really terrible transition times is part of what makes the new PS Store such a mess.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on June 12, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
Dive Club stills needs some work to go. Currently its at 30 fps while Mario Kart/Forza are confirmed 1080/60 fps. Thefull game is also going to be free on PS+ for the first year of PS4. The only difference is the PS+ version wont have all the tracks and cars.
Is it weird that I thought GT6 looked more graphically impressive on the PS3?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 12, 2013, 06:40:33 PM
I never though evolution studios were a big deal when making Motorstorm. The game is still six months out but its disheartening that Drive Club was the only racing game not to be confrimed for 6pfps upon release.
Plus its the only first party title that has had direct feed footage so far.
[/size] [/size]Knack isn't looking too hot either TBH.[size=78%]
[/size]I really hope this isn't one of those places where the launch games for the PS4 suck, while the anti-consumer console has all the good launch games. [size=78%]
A picture of the headset coming with the system. (http://[font=Verdana][/size][size=78%][url=http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2013/06/12/dsc07959jpg-30ba79_610w.jpg]http://assets1.ignimgs.com/2013/06/12/dsc07959jpg-30ba79_610w.jpg[/url][/size][/font])
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 12, 2013, 10:01:34 PM
I really don't get why everyone comes down on Knack. To me, it looks like a cool little 3D platformer/brawler, with a neat emphasis on scale. Yeah, it's definitely a "launch" game (with its emphasis on displaying a ridiculous amount of moving parts), but so was Kameo on the 360 and that was a pretty decent game too. Maybe it'll suck, maybe not, but I'm at least willing to give it a chance (which is more than I can say for sites like Game Trailers).
Killzone: Shadow Force doesn't look like the most amazing game I've ever seen, either, but I really liked Killzone 3 and this looks like the logical extension of that game. People on this site seem to hate FPS games for merely existing and being popular, but when done right I rather enjoy them. And unlike a lot of FPS games, Killzone 3 had quite a bit of color in it, and Killzone: Shadow Force seems to continue that trend. The same goes for Destiny.
The Xbone does have some games I think look potentially cool like Quantum Break, but they don't make me want to buy an Xbone and tolerate its policies.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 12, 2013, 10:50:30 PM
Never played a Killzone but its the second best looking game Sony showed.
Knack looks fun, but there's barley anything going on in the screen and everything just looks so tech demoish, The CGI stuff shows him doing all this cool stuff and fighting mutiple guys. Even the enviorments don;t have this sense of polish that the cutscenes alluded them to having
I Kameo at least showed off the hardware after the intro and you go onto the field with hundreds of guys fighting each other.
Drive Club i've already harped on. It was the only first party sony game (other than the order) that was shown on IGN's Live stage without gameplay.
Infamous second son is probably my favorite of the games shown thus far. I really just want to see some none smoke powers gameplay.
I think my problem is that Sony showed these game at the PlayStation meeting in Februay, and with the exception of knack and the media Molecule joint, the impression was given that alot of these games were going to be ready for E3. Contrast that to microsoft who had been silent till may ad still didn't show anything, and yet the consensus is that they showed more content and had more workable games.
Sony has alot of teams and partners so
I was expecting Playstation meeting to be the opener The Games from the playstation meeting to be pretty far along at E3 coupled with more games from the US branches. Gamescon to be about the euro teams TGS for more Japan Studio stuff
That can still happen but barley any word on new PS4 games was disheartening. If that was the case why not show more internal software from vita on stage.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 13, 2013, 10:52:56 AM
Sony has no faith in the Vita as a standalone handheld. They're just using it to give the PS4 a Wii U-type experience. The lack of games for the Vita is disheartening.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 13, 2013, 10:59:30 AM
Sony has no faith in the Vita as a standalone handheld. They're just using it to give the PS4 a Wii U-type experience. The lack of games for the Vita is disheartening.
Your telling me God of War HD and Destiny of Spirits doesn't excite you?
If its any consolation prize the Vita will probably get every PSN game the PS4 gets going forward.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 13, 2013, 11:14:02 AM
Sony has no faith in the Vita as a standalone handheld. They're just using it to give the PS4 a Wii U-type experience. The lack of games for the Vita is disheartening.
It's disheartening that Sony seems to be relegating Vita to being the cross-buy system where you just play games you bought for your PS3, but the system's had a pretty decent lineup of games in its first year. I have more than enough Vita-exclusive games on the thing already to last me for a while, particularly when it comes to PSN titles.
Maybe we'll get lucky and Sony will decide to unveil new Vita games at Tokyo Game Show.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ymeegod on June 13, 2013, 11:49:17 AM
"relegating Vita "
Yeah, was expected to see a few "surprises" that never happened. Was expecting somesort of spinoff of GTA since the PSP had a couple that sold somewhat decent.
Was also expecting to hear about a price cut but Sony seems like it forgotten the NA market exists because other than a few collection series (Sly Cooper, Jak series) there wasn't that much announced that I cared for.
Was also expecting to hear more about remote play with PS4, was expecting to hear about the ability to play co-op (one guy on the Vita and the other on TV) using one ps4 software title.
----------------------------------------
I still love my vita though, I picked it up used cheap and gotten plenty of titles free from PS+.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 17, 2013, 07:55:35 PM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 17, 2013, 08:03:28 PM
Considering the DualShock design has easily been the worst controller design of the last 15 years, I very much doubt the DualShock 4 will even be a good controller, yet alone one of the best. The Xbox 360 controller was so much better than the DualShock 3 that it wasn't even close (it would be like LeBron James playing basketball against a 4 year old).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 17, 2013, 08:33:53 PM
I have never owned a Playstation of any persuasion. Therefore I have never spent any decent amount of time with a dual shock.
I'm with most people in that I don't see the sense of the positioning of the control stick and D-Pad. I really wish that they would make both controllers. Is there any reason why they can't make a DS with the D-Pad and control stick swapped? They could cater to both ideals.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 17, 2013, 08:37:06 PM
My guess is the Sony fanboys would bitch and whine non-stop, like when they introduce the PlayStation 3 controller. You had Sony fanboys complaining to Sony over and over that they wanted the DualShock back. The d-pad/analog stick placement is a big problem with the controller (I also think using symbols instead of letters is very Playskool-esque and goes against the tradition of almost every controller of the last 25 years).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2013, 08:39:45 PM
You're insane. The original XBox controller is the worst controller of the past 15 years, second worst is the Dreamcast controller. I'd say next is the original Wii Classic Controller (mainly because it has to be tethered to a WiiMote).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 17, 2013, 08:40:44 PM
My guess is the Sony fanboys would bitch and whine non-stop, like when they introduce the PlayStation 3 controller. You had Sony fanboys complaining to Sony over and over that they wanted the DualShock back. The d-pad/analog stick placement is a big problem with the controller (I also think using symbols instead of letters is very Playskool-esque and goes against the tradition of almost every controller of the last 25 years).
Well, obviously the dpad/analog stick placement isn't a big problem beyond folks like you, or they would have changed it by now. I'm quite content with the layout of the DS3 controller, and if they've fixed the L2/R2 triggers for the Dualshock 4 (the triggers are loose and extremely easy to hit by accident just by setting the controller down), I'll be happy. From all accounts, they have done just that, so barring some issue with the DS4's new rounded shape, I think I'll like the Dualshock 4 as well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 17, 2013, 08:46:37 PM
You're insane. The original XBox controller is the worst controller of the past 15 years, second worst is the Dreamcast controller. I'd say next is the original Wii Classic Controller (mainly because it has to be tethered to a WiiMote).
The Xbox Duke and Dreamcast controllers weren't the best, but they were still better than the DualShock. And the Classic Controller was also better (though that is not hard to do).
I have seen plenty of people complain about the analog stick placement and how it makes no sense on the DualShock.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2013, 09:03:19 PM
Makes more sense than the Wii U Pro Controller.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 17, 2013, 09:05:51 PM
More? No. Maybe the same. Plus, the Pro Controller is optional (so it's not required).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on June 17, 2013, 09:29:29 PM
Main Stick should be in the Main Stick Spot.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 17, 2013, 09:31:36 PM
Is there any reason they can't make both controllers?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: nickmitch on June 17, 2013, 09:47:56 PM
I like the Dreamcast controller.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2013, 10:08:10 PM
It's the Wii U's right side that I have a problem with. Analog stick above the face buttons is retarded.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 17, 2013, 10:21:43 PM
I have always hated Sony's D-Pad. It is seriously flawed. And Sony's Analog sticks are not much better. The best controllers have always come from Nintendo. You may question the functionality, but quality and durability Nintendo controllers are always tops.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2013, 11:20:24 PM
I'd have to disagree with the D-Pad hating...Sony's D-Pad's are great for 2D fighting games. Pulling off a Fatality in any Mortal Kombat is nearly impossible with a 360 controller. Nintendo's D-Pads are definitely the best though, except for the inexcusably small GameCube D-Pad.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 18, 2013, 12:03:08 AM
I kind of like the Wii U layout. Certainly more comfortable for me to have both on top than both on the bottom. Either that or the 360 layout is fine by me, I don't really care either way.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ian Sane on June 18, 2013, 12:21:54 PM
I never liked the PS1 & 2 controllers but the Dualshock 3 won me over big time. The PS controllers always felt very cheap but the Dualshock 3 felt sturdy and well constructed. It's d-pad was still split but felt responsive and accurate and they made the prongs shorter and the whole thing actually felt ergonomic for a change. If the PS4 one is as good as the PS3 then it will be a great controller. The only beef I have with the design now is that they use shapes for the button names which I have always found confusing and unintuitive. I suck a QTEs for example because if the game yells out "triangle" I have NO CLUE what button that is. I've never gotten used to it. I have to look down to figure out which button is which. Typically in a videogame I stop thinking of a button as "A" but rather as "jump" or "shoot" but when instructions are on the screen I'm thrown off.
The Wii controller was one of the WORST controllers I've ever used so the days of Nintendo fans making fun of Playstation controllers is long over. There is no greater sin for a controller than being unresponsive to the player's input and the Wii remote is a huge offender. However Kinect is probably the worst videogame controller ever.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on June 18, 2013, 03:41:21 PM
The Wii controller was one of the WORST controllers I've ever used so the days of Nintendo fans making fun of Playstation controllers is long over. There is no greater sin for a controller than being unresponsive to the player's input and the Wii remote is a huge offender. However Kinect is probably the worst videogame controller ever.
the n64 controller is pretty bad. honestly the wii motion controls are kinda flinicky but they work. if your having problems the game is either poorly programed for them or the sensor bar/sensitivity settings probably aren't set up correctly.
but i think were forgetting something... (http://www.panelsonpages.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nes-power-glove.jpg)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 18, 2013, 06:12:44 PM
Actually, the buttons have meanings (http://www.geekosystem.com/playstation-controller-buttons-meaning).
Side note: We've had this EXACT conversation before.
True. I found myself about to chime in until I realized I had this conversation before and wasn't worth the effort to type all that on my mobile.
Never knew about the meanings though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on June 19, 2013, 01:17:06 PM
It's muscle memory, and the same with every controller. Who cares what the symbols are? It's just as arbitrary as ABXY. I'm sure if you were a Sony and Microsoft guy and hardly touched a Nintendo controller you'd be just as confused.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 19, 2013, 03:48:13 PM
It's muscle memory, and the same with every controller. Who cares what the symbols are? It's just as arbitrary as ABXY. I'm sure if you were a Sony and Microsoft guy and hardly touched a Nintendo controller you'd be just as confused.
Yeah, I have to admit that I play games on Nintendo platforms so infrequently these days that I sometimes have trouble remembering which button is A and which is B, and which is X and which is Y (the button pairs are in the reverse order on the 360 controller). You eventually just get used to it again.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on June 19, 2013, 05:51:22 PM
so the entire conversation has devolved into this
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 19, 2013, 07:47:35 PM
You're insane. The original XBox controller is the worst controller of the past 15 years, second worst is the Dreamcast controller. I'd say next is the original Wii Classic Controller (mainly because it has to be tethered to a WiiMote).
Really? The Dreamcast controller and the original Xbox huge controller are my top 2 favorite controllers of all time.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on June 20, 2013, 03:16:49 PM
sony is doing a great job hyping their system if were talking about controllers.
i like the og classic controller... it has its share of flaws(i don't view being tethered to a remote as bad if the tether comes out the other way) but they did controller that feels like the ones of days past(and remains my choice for VC even though i own a pro)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2013, 03:40:16 PM
yeah the wii u controller is the same as the super nintendo layout, which bothers me because I never had a super nintendo. I went nes, genesis, n64, gamecube
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 20, 2013, 09:58:36 PM
The Perm...your picture makes me realize...how much I miss the buttons around the A button design of the Gamecube.
Sure, it wasn't useful for fighting games, but I wonder if there is a way to change that. Make a controller that has shapes for the buttons, but can still be used for a fighting game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on June 21, 2013, 09:10:14 AM
The Perm...your picture makes me realize...how much I miss the buttons around the A button design of the Gamecube.
Sure, it wasn't useful for fighting games, but I wonder if there is a way to change that. Make a controller that has shapes for the buttons, but can still be used for a fighting game.
You don't make a controller for "Fighting Game" that crowd has their own Custom sticks. Just make a way for them to make Fight Sticks and call it a day.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 21, 2013, 07:27:17 PM
PS4 is going to wipe the floor with Xbone this Holiday season. Even if I end up with an Xbone i'll probably recoomend the PS4 in store and too friends.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 21, 2013, 08:58:41 PM
Ceric True. But it got me thinking.
You could easily keep the 4 button layout and size of a traditional controller, but then take one button to be the main action button. And keep that button round maybe slightly, slightly bigger than the other buttons. And then have the other 3 buttons circles with a slight curved bean-ish shape indicating where it is to the main button. This could easily be felt while playing and could allow buttons to be slightly closer together to make it easier to push multiple buttons together.
You could even do this with six buttons and make the primary button the Middle bottom button.
I think controller designs could still be perfected and improved with some imaginative thinking.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 23, 2013, 09:11:45 PM
Shingi, I don't think the PS4 will do much better than Xbox One (if at all). The only real issues with the system have already been removed by Microsoft (having to check in every 24 hours, and no used games). Without those issues, it becomes even harder to recommend a PS4 to anyone.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on June 23, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
PS4 is still $100 cheaper. That's a major advantage.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 23, 2013, 09:36:18 PM
Shingi, I don't think the PS4 will do much better than Xbox One (if at all). The only real issues with the system have already been removed by Microsoft (having to check in every 24 hours, and no used games). Without those issues, it becomes even harder to recommend a PS4 to anyone.
PS4 will dominate the next generation. DOMINATE. Xbox 360 had a 1 year (and around 10 million consoles sold) advantage over PS3, and PS3 has overtaken Xbox 360's total sales (by about 5 million systems now). Now they come out at the same time, and the PS4 is $100 cheaper than the Xbox One (instead of $500 or $600 for PS3 vs $300 or $400 for Xbox 360).
Like Bill Clinton said, it's "arithmetic."
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 23, 2013, 09:57:43 PM
PS3 has shipped more, not sold. The only places PS3 outsold 360 is in Japan and a few countries in Europe. Unless Sony does something major, I don't see any compelling reason to pick a PS4 over a One.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 23, 2013, 10:06:05 PM
PS3 has shipped more, not sold. The only places PS3 outsold 360 is in Japan and a few countries in Europe. Unless Sony does something major, I don't see any compelling reason to pick a PS4 over a One.
Besides, you know...better games; better services (PS+); better support from Indie developers; and overall better value, right? I'm actually fascinated to know just what makes you think there's a compelling reason to pick up an Xbone over a PS4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 23, 2013, 10:18:00 PM
Better games? LOL, that is a joke. PS+ is only better in that you get discounts on games (the actual service is not better), and it is no longer gonna be free. As for indie games, 90% of the indie games on consoles are pure crap anyways. I would say both 360 and PS3 have an equal amount of GOOD indie games. As for value, if the Xbox One can have the same amount of value as Xbox 360 (which it looks like it will), then the One will have better value unless you specifically want Sony first party games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 23, 2013, 10:30:54 PM
Better games? LOL, that is a joke. PS+ is only better in that you get discounts on games (the actual service is not better), and it is no longer gonna be free. As for indie games, 90% of the indie games on consoles are pure crap anyways. I would say both 360 and PS3 have an equal amount of GOOD indie games. As for value, if the Xbox One can have the same amount of value as Xbox 360 (which it looks like it will), then the One will have better value unless you specifically want Sony first party games.
PS+ has never been free, but it has offered more for $50 a year than XBox LIVE Gold has provided for $60 a year. Free games, substantial discounts, early access to new release games, Beta access, etc. And yes, both services will be required for multiplayer next generation on their respective platforms as well.
But hey, if you don't want to or can't answer my question of why you would pick an Xbone over a PS4 (outside fanboy loyalty of course, which you would have to have to imply that Microsoft can go toe-to-toe with Sony on 1st party games quality), that's cool too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 23, 2013, 10:41:49 PM
PS+ has never given you "free" games, they let you borrow games. Xbox Live Gold has started actually GIVING you games you OWN.
And I did answer, but the Sony fanboy in you ignored me.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 23, 2013, 11:12:28 PM
PS+ has never given you "free" games, they let you borrow games. Xbox Live Gold has started actually GIVING you games you OWN.
From where I stand, PS+ lets me "borrow" games for as long as I actually care about them, and so long as I have the service (which is a given considering you need it for PS4 multiplayer), I'll have access to those games for another 5-6 years. After that, I'm not likely to care about them, but if I do there's always the "cheap physical purchase off Amazon" route. But hey, who am I to argue with the staying power of free copies of Halo 3...*snicker*...and...*snort*...Assassin's Creed 2? *laughs loudly*
Quote
And I did answer, but the Sony fanboy in you ignored me.
If you think I can't criticize Sony when they deserve it (and just as much as Microsoft and Nintendo), you obviously haven't listened to as many episodes of NFR as you claim to have done. ;) I just think you at best vaguely answered the question, and were more replying to my original opinion that the PS4 has better overall value than the Xbone.
I'm genuinely curious just what excites you about the thing, its services, and its overall software lineup. Right now, it does nothing for me outside of Remedy's game (and that's mainly because I really liked Alan Wake), and I'll probably be able to eventually play Quantum Break on PC anyway. I stopped playing Halo 4 halfway through, and what I've played of the Gears trilogy wasn't exactly promising. From where I stand, Microsoft never figured out how to develop a good 1st party game on the 360, and it doesn't look like that will change on the Xbone, at least so far. Both the PS4 and Xbone will likely have more or less the same 3rd party support, if not favoring the PS4. Given that, the lineup of 1st party titles will more more important than every, and Microsoft was thoroughly outclassed by Sony in that regard on the PS3 (and that seems to be the case once again so far PS4 vs. Xbone).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 23, 2013, 11:32:36 PM
I didn't say I am excited about Xbox One (I don't plan to get one anytime soon), I just see even less value in the PS4. And Crackdown (a first party MS game) was a GREAT sandbox game, Forza Motorsport is a better series than Gran Turismo. I dont care much for the Halo games (though they aren't bad). Fable II was really good. And if I want a multi-platform game, the Xbox 360 version is the better choice to me because the DualShock controller is trash and the PS4 looks to be the same.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 23, 2013, 11:34:36 PM
So the PS4 is rumored to be $399 & XBone is $499 right?
and the PS4 has more ram and more power at a lower price, right?
So assuming the above is correct, and all the 3rd parties support each of the 2 equally, outside of trying to keep my hypothetical Live account & love for very specific exclusive IP's (Halo, KI3, ect.), why would I choose an Xbone over a PS4?
I know why you would chose one of those over a Wii U, but why choose one over the other?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 23, 2013, 11:36:23 PM
Better games? LOL, that is a joke. PS+ is only better in that you get discounts on games (the actual service is not better), and it is no longer gonna be free. As for indie games, 90% of the indie games on consoles are pure crap anyways. I would say both 360 and PS3 have an equal amount of GOOD indie games. As for value, if the Xbox One can have the same amount of value as Xbox 360 (which it looks like it will), then the One will have better value unless you specifically want Sony first party games.
Sony has cloud-based backwards compatability through Gakai; Microsoft has zero backwards compatibility at all.
Sony has a large advantage over Microsoft with this feature and the $100 cheaper price. And no mandatory camera either.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 23, 2013, 11:38:56 PM
I didn't say I am excited about Xbox One (I don't plan to get one anytime soon), I just see even less value in the PS4. And Crackdown (a first party MS game) was a GREAT sandbox game, Forza Motorsport is a better series than Gran Turismo. I dont care much for the Halo games (though they aren't bad). Fable II was really good. And if I want a multi-platform game, the Xbox 360 version is the better choice to me because the DualShock controller is trash and the PS4 looks to be the same.
What makes Forza a better sim racer than Gran Turismo? They both serve the same purpose.
Quote from: BlackNMild2k1
PS4 is rumored to be $399
Not rumored anymore. Sony announced that price at their E3 conference.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 23, 2013, 11:45:52 PM
I completely missed E3 this year and didn't spend the hours reading the internets to play catch up. So excuse me if I'm a little behind the times.... it's not usually like this, I swear.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on June 23, 2013, 11:46:55 PM
Sony has cloud-based backwards compatability through Gakai; Microsoft has zero backwards compatibility at all.
To be fair to the Xbone, I'm not buying Sony's Gaikai promises any more than I buy Microsoft's "Infinite Power of THE CLOUD" promises. Neither company has proven the application of their respective services yet, and given the cynical nature of the internet we probably aren't likely to see a demonstration anyone would believe until launch.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 23, 2013, 11:53:40 PM
So does anyone else think Microsoft will bring back their restrictive DRM policies?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 23, 2013, 11:57:00 PM
seriously, what does the Xbone have that the PS4 doesn't that justifies the $100 price difference. what would make me(or anyone), on a technical level, buy a XBone over a PS4?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on June 24, 2013, 12:01:57 AM
seriously, what does the Xbone have that the PS4 doesn't that justifies the $100 price difference. what would make me(or anyone), on a technical level, buy a XBone over a PS4?
One includes Kinect; PS4's camera is optional.
Not sure why you would pick One over PS4 other than your preference of first party software. I think PS4 has better hardware, but you probably won't notice much difference in third party games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 24, 2013, 12:07:57 AM
and Kinect is still required to be connected and powered on to use the XBone, correct?
I remember hearing something about Kinect sensing the # of people in the room and blocking you from using media or something like that. was that real or imagined? just a joke maybe? because that can't be serious. (maybe I should be asking this question in the XBone thread....)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 12:18:11 AM
PS3 has shipped more, not sold. The only places PS3 outsold 360 is in Japan and a few countries in Europe. Unless Sony does something major, I don't see any compelling reason to pick a PS4 over a One.
Shipped and sold more. In the US it's either a dead heat or Sony is slightly ahead at this point.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 12:22:45 AM
I didn't say I am excited about Xbox One (I don't plan to get one anytime soon), I just see even less value in the PS4. And Crackdown (a first party MS game) was a GREAT sandbox game, Forza Motorsport is a better series than Gran Turismo. I dont care much for the Halo games (though they aren't bad). Fable II was really good. And if I want a multi-platform game, the Xbox 360 version is the better choice to me because the DualShock controller is trash and the PS4 looks to be the same.
From what I've read, the PS4 controller is the best controller ever (though I've never used it, obviously), and developers are saying that for multiplayer games, they will all perform better on PS4 - but hey, you've already made up your mind after playing both consoles for a total time of zero seconds, 5 months before they launch, so no need to argue rationale here.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2013, 12:37:38 AM
PS3 has shipped more, not sold. The only places PS3 outsold 360 is in Japan and a few countries in Europe. Unless Sony does something major, I don't see any compelling reason to pick a PS4 over a One.
Shipped and sold more. In the US it's either a dead heat or Sony is slightly ahead at this point.
How is it a "dead heat" in the US when the Xbox 360 has been the best selling console for the last 29 MONTHS and even before that (when Wii was #1) it consistently outsold PS3? Last time I checked, you can't be "slightly ahead" when the other console has been outselling you every month for years. And the most recent confirmed numbers I can find have the Xbox 360 still ahead worldwide in SOLD systems.
brandogg, the biggest problems with the DualShock design (like the placement of the analog sticks) continues in the PS4. And best controller ever? LOL, that is the funniest thing ive ever heard.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on June 24, 2013, 12:39:31 AM
and Kinect is still required to be connected and powered on to use the XBone, correct?
I remember hearing something about Kinect sensing the # of people in the room and blocking you from using media or something like that. was that real or imagined? just a joke maybe? because that can't be serious. (maybe I should be asking this question in the XBone thread....)
I believe so.
I think Microsoft filed that patent. It's not a thing yet, but it could be one day which is kind of bogus.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 24, 2013, 02:40:29 AM
PS3 has shipped more, not sold. The only places PS3 outsold 360 is in Japan and a few countries in Europe. Unless Sony does something major, I don't see any compelling reason to pick a PS4 over a One.
Shipped and sold more. In the US it's either a dead heat or Sony is slightly ahead at this point.
How is it a "dead heat" in the US when the Xbox 360 has been the best selling console for the last 29 MONTHS and even before that (when Wii was #1) it consistently outsold PS3? Last time I checked, you can't be "slightly ahead" when the other console has been outselling you every month for years. And the most recent confirmed numbers I can find have the Xbox 360 still ahead worldwide in SOLD systems.
brandogg, the biggest problems with the DualShock design (like the placement of the analog sticks) continues in the PS4. And best controller ever? LOL, that is the funniest thing ive ever heard.
People who have actually used the new Sony controller (i.e. not you) have said very favorable things about it compared to the Xbox One controller, which seems to be for all intents and purposes the 360 controller again. The DS4 is similar to the DS3, but the tweaks they've made sound like they address most of my complaints with the old ones.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on June 24, 2013, 02:58:13 AM
I hope it natively supports PC's.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 10:06:29 AM
How is it a "dead heat" in the US when the Xbox 360 has been the best selling console for the last 29 MONTHS and even before that (when Wii was #1) it consistently outsold PS3? Last time I checked, you can't be "slightly ahead" when the other console has been outselling you every month for years. And the most recent confirmed numbers I can find have the Xbox 360 still ahead worldwide in SOLD systems.
brandogg, the biggest problems with the DualShock design (like the placement of the analog sticks) continues in the PS4. And best controller ever? LOL, that is the funniest thing ive ever heard.
Simple: magic.
The IDC report from this year puts Sony ahead in consoles sold, not just shipped, and that was from January.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2013, 10:18:24 AM
Even if u use January numbers, 360 was ahead 77 million to 75 million.
And u did not say how you think ps3 could be close or even ahead in the US when Xbox 360 has outsold it for several consecutive years?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on June 24, 2013, 10:32:31 AM
Because it's now selling more? And is it that hard to use the word "you", especially when you use it in a sentence with words like "consecutive"?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 01:29:59 PM
I told you, magic. I believe the January IDC report had Microsoft at 70.0 million sold (not shipped) and Sony at 70.2 million sold (not shipped). In the end Microsoft still had a 1 year, 10 million console advantage. They still have the 1 year advantage, but the 10 million console difference is completely go e.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2013, 01:37:23 PM
Because it's now selling more? And is it that hard to use the word "you", especially when you use it in a sentence with words like "consecutive"?
Did you even read what I said? How can the PlayStation 3 be close to or ahead of the Xbox 360 in the UNITED STATES (which is what Brandogg said) when the Xbox 360 has been the best selling console in the United States for the last 29 months? In the 79 months that both Xbox 360 and PlayStation have been available, PS3 has outsold it 8 times (January 2008 by 39K, February 2008 by 26K, May 2008 by 20K, June 2008 by 186K due to a MGS4 bundle selling about 220K, July 2008 by 20K, September 2009 by 139K after a price cut, October 2009 by 71K, December 2009 by 50K). The other 69 months the 360 outsold the PS3 in the US.
The IDC report (I looked it up) was about shipped systems, not sold.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 03:07:16 PM
At this point it doesn't matter much if you're talking shipped or sold. A system shipped is essentially a system sold this far into the console life cycle. The 70 million and 70.2 million sold figures come from Microsoft and Sony, respectively (as of September 2012). Some sites mention shipped systems, some mention sold when citing the IDC report, apparently no one wants to actually purchase the report as it costs $4,500.
Back to the point - The PS4 is $100 cheaper than the Xbox One instead of $200 more, it's launching at the same time instead of a fully year later, and it is more powerful with developers saying every game will look better (this matters to a lot of people) on PS4 from day one. If history is any kind of indication, this adds up to Sony dominating the next generation. Sure, you don't have any intention of buying one (I wonder if you can use almost any USB controller on PS4 like you can with PS3, since the DS4 will be so horrible), so it shouldn't matter to you anyway.
I'm just glad that I haven't already completely made up my mind five months before playing either console.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Sony says they have "sold" 75 million as of December 31, 2012. Xbox 360 about 77.2 million as of March 31.
Developers also said the PS3 versions of games would look best. Instead, almost every game looked the same on both (some looked even better on 360) and some games just flat out ran worse on PS3. So I wouldn't expect PS4 games to look any better than One games. And Sony's history of the last 7 years shows they will not dominate, as nothing they have done as helped them be #1 with any system.
Sony has never wowed me with their systems. The PSP was OK, but other than that, no. And it's never been good enough for me to game on it much other than the occasional rare exclusive I like. The PS4 may get good enough for me to eventually buy one, but no time soon.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on June 24, 2013, 03:37:41 PM
They ran worse* because of the Cell architecture. Have you seen The Last of Us? Looks far better than any Xbox exclusive when the developer actually tries and learns the system.
Considering that the two new systems have EXTREMELY similar architecture this time around, your baseless assumption is completely incorrect.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 03:38:25 PM
The PS3 had a weaker GPU than the 360 and it took a while for developers to take advantage of the Cell, the PS4 has a more powerful everything than the Xbox One and the learning curve for PS3 developers making PS4 games is essentially already done.
Nothing they've done has helped them be #1? The PlayStation and PS2 (and now PS3 like it or not) would like to disagree. I'm no fanboy, I genuinely hate Sony, but this generation is theirs to lose.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2013, 03:40:32 PM
I based it on history, so don't say its incorrect. And wow, you picked one of the few PS3 games that look better than Xbox 360 games. Nice attempt to make it seem like every PS4 games will be like that.
Brandogg, I said for the last 7 years. That would cover PS3, PSP, and PSV. All of those were "superior" to the competition but failed to be #1.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 03:54:13 PM
The PS3's biggest problem from the start was it's price, as far as selling consoles is concerned. They will not be #1 with generation because Nintendo has a 30 million console advantage now with the Wii. No one can touch Nintendo as far as handhelds go, they simple know how to make a handheld that people want and will buy.
Again, Microsoft's 10 million advantage is gone. The system has been on the market 14% longer than the PS3 has, that is a monumental advantage and that advantage is gone now. Microsoft should statistically be ahead by 10 million consoles (14% of 77 million), they are not ahead by any consoles.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 24, 2013, 03:55:11 PM
They are ahead, just not by as much as they should be.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 24, 2013, 04:09:25 PM
Does it really matter who is ahead in sales? Just play the games you enjoy and stop these petty fanboy console wars.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 24, 2013, 11:07:00 PM
PS4 OS runs modified version of FreeBSD 9.0 (http://www.vgleaks.com/some-details-about-playstation-4-os-development/) - could this lead to "Other OS" support on PS4? If so, that's pretty damn amazing, hopefully you'll get full access to the GPU if this is the case.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 25, 2013, 08:33:31 AM
I might buy a PS4 just because.
I've always disliked the PS controllers, but for $400, I might buy the system just because I can. lots of possibilities with non-gaming and gaming stuff. I might not buy it right away, but I think I might break my Nintendo only streak and actually purchase one of the competitors.
does this mean I'm growing up and becoming mature!?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on June 29, 2013, 10:34:51 PM
If the sales are so low you aren't getting games on your system then yes, it does matter.
But that's really only a Nintendo thing. Hell PS4 and Xbox One aren't even out and they have more support than a console that while doing poorly has a tangible marketshare.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 30, 2013, 12:46:40 AM
If the sales are so low you aren't getting games on your system then yes, it does matter.
But that's really only a Nintendo thing. Hell PS4 and Xbox One aren't even out and they have more support than a console that while doing poorly has a tangible marketshare
That's because developers and publishers know the "core" gamers (their main market segment) will buy Xbox and PlayStation consoles. Microsoft and Sony have proven track records with third-party developers, and these developers know they won't have to compete with Microsoft and Sony's first-party games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on June 30, 2013, 12:23:49 PM
If the sales are so low you aren't getting games on your system then yes, it does matter.
But that's really only a Nintendo thing. Hell PS4 and Xbox One aren't even out and they have more support than a console that while doing poorly has a tangible marketshare
That's because developers and publishers know the "core" gamers (their main market segment) will buy Xbox and PlayStation consoles. Microsoft and Sony have proven track records with third-party developers, and these developers know they won't have to compete with Microsoft and Sony's first-party games.
Halo 4 was the best selling game in the series thus far, yet Third parties were able to good really god sales for their games last year as well. One would argue that Nintendo doesn't even make games that compete with other third party games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 05, 2013, 10:15:52 PM
Some pretty interesting rumors popping up on gaf and the web.
-Naughty Dog is working on Uncharted 4. - Sony Santa Monica has a new IP in the works that isn't related to The Order -Guerrilla Games is working on a new IP that might be a WPRG and Killzone is Sony's main shooter series now, -GT6 PS4 releases sometime between 2014 to spring 2015. -Demon Souls 2 is being developed for PS4 -SOny has Two RPGs in development for PS4 one will melt the hardcore and do Killzone/infamous numbers. I'm guessing this is Either Demon Souls or a reboot of a old series. -Last GUardian is going to release. -A 2nd JRPG that will be competing with Final Fantasy XV and X in terms of scope. A way to Jump on the JRPG popularity revival spearheaded by XV, KH3, and X. Somthing that will get Gamers excited. I'm thinking it might be the Level-5 PS4 game but despite Ni No Kuni being awesome I'm not sure Sony wants to deal with them after White Knight series. -Final Fantasy XVL to be announced in the next two years.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on July 06, 2013, 01:51:27 AM
Final Fantasy 35 is going to be announced in the next 2 years? :confused;
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 06, 2013, 08:08:00 AM
I thought that was the symbol for 16.
XV has been in develpment for so long it only makes sense. I'm guessing were going to see the XV sequels and 16 on a shorter time scale.
TBH I'd rather see new IP from Square.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shaymin on July 06, 2013, 08:51:31 AM
XVI = 16 in Roman numerals
I'd like to see a new IP or at least start using some of the Enix stuff - I am shocked the acquiring company would let themselves get buried like Enix has.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on July 06, 2013, 10:14:28 PM
I'd rather see a new Final Fantasy. Considering each main title is different from each other what's the point of a new IP?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 10, 2013, 05:33:48 PM
PS4 Will Allow You To Play Your Games From Multiple Consoles
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: magicpixie on July 10, 2013, 05:53:57 PM
Meh, any account-based console SHOULD allow this. PS360 and Steam allow this now. What's more interesting is how well the experience will be playing the game before it is completely downloaded. There are games that already structure their downloads to allow this currently, it'll be nice to see it become standard practice.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 10, 2013, 09:20:10 PM
The xbox one can do that.
Anyone else a bit disappointed the new R&C game is for PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 23, 2013, 10:31:05 PM
New OS pictures released today (http://abload.de/img/playstation-4_2013_07a6ugb.png) (http://abload.de/img/playstation-4_2013_07o2uz9.png) (http://abload.de/img/playstation-4_2013_076yuc5.png) (http://abload.de/img/playstation-4_2013_076yuc5.png) (http://abload.de/img/playstation-4_2013_07e9uz0.png)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2013, 12:01:22 PM
Interesting
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on July 25, 2013, 08:13:01 PM
Will the new gaming darling have its first fail? Will GAF prove itself to be a wretched hive of scum and villiany? Will Shingi cancel his preorder and double down on the ONE?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 25, 2013, 09:29:14 PM
Will the new gaming darling have its first fail? Will GAF prove itself to be a wretched hive of scum and villiany? Will Shingi cancel his preorder and double down on the ONE?
Wouldn't be surprised if true. After they announced the system would be $400, there's no way they could have released it with the original specs unless Sony was willing to take a huge loss on each system, something they're not really in a position to do with their ongoing financial problems. Cutting the specs is the only way selling at $400 was going to be remotely possible without taking a huge loss.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on July 25, 2013, 09:35:12 PM
DRAMA YOU SAY!?!?!?!??!??!!??!?!!?!!? ?? (http://abload.de/img/yourmomgoestocollegepsu3l.gif)
thank you gaf for finding a new popcorn gif for me btw :D
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: lolmonade on July 25, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
Will the new gaming darling have its first fail? Will GAF prove itself to be a wretched hive of scum and villiany? Will Shingi cancel his preorder and double down on the ONE?
Wouldn't be surprised if true. After they announced the system would be $400, there's no way they could have released it with the original specs unless Sony was willing to take a huge loss on each system, something they're not really in a position to do with their ongoing financial problems. Cutting the specs is the only way selling at $400 was going to be remotely possible without taking a huge loss.
Reading through the final pages of that thread, it seems like it was smoke but no fire. I think people can put down the pitchforks for the time being.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on July 25, 2013, 10:42:15 PM
Will the new gaming darling have its first fail? Will GAF prove itself to be a wretched hive of scum and villiany? Will Shingi cancel his preorder and double down on the ONE?
Wouldn't be surprised if true. After they announced the system would be $400, there's no way they could have released it with the original specs unless Sony was willing to take a huge loss on each system, something they're not really in a position to do with their ongoing financial problems. Cutting the specs is the only way selling at $400 was going to be remotely possible without taking a huge loss.
Reading through the final pages of that thread, it seems like it was smoke but no fire. I think people can put down the pitchforks for the time being.
Indeed. In order for Sony to actually fulfill the number of pre-orders they've been allowing retailers to take in, they had to have been manufacturing the PS4 for at least a month now, if not since late Spring. If there was a change in the RAM, we would have heard about it by now.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: lolmonade on July 25, 2013, 10:46:38 PM
Will the new gaming darling have its first fail? Will GAF prove itself to be a wretched hive of scum and villiany? Will Shingi cancel his preorder and double down on the ONE?
Wouldn't be surprised if true. After they announced the system would be $400, there's no way they could have released it with the original specs unless Sony was willing to take a huge loss on each system, something they're not really in a position to do with their ongoing financial problems. Cutting the specs is the only way selling at $400 was going to be remotely possible without taking a huge loss.
Reading through the final pages of that thread, it seems like it was smoke but no fire. I think people can put down the pitchforks for the time being.
Indeed. In order for Sony to actually fulfill the number of pre-orders they've been allowing retailers to take in, they had to have been manufacturing the PS4 for at least a month now, if not since late Spring. If there was a change in the RAM, we would have heard about it by now.
Hey, someone who understands the physical limitations of production/scheduling/supply chains!
Absolutely. Unless they had found a way to keep it well under wraps, a spec change would have had to occur a while ago when you consider the time it takes to work with a vendor to create schedules for components.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on July 26, 2013, 09:40:25 AM
Sony announced their Gamescom conference for August 20th, 7PM CET. More info on launch games mixed with new announcement. I know they won't do it but I wouldn't even mention the PS3 at this confrence and focus solely on PS4/Vita.
With indies being the big point of the day Polygon did some digging and found out how much it costs to develop for PS4. http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/4553842/so-how-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-for-playstation-4 (http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/4553842/so-how-much-does-it-cost-to-develop-for-playstation-4)
Dev Kits costs $2500 but currently Sony has been giving Dev Kits away for free on a one year loan basis. Its pretty smart. You have a ot of developers making games for the system now and they'll use the money they make off the store to purchase in full a dev kit.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on July 26, 2013, 11:38:10 AM
So apparently the PS4 news was devs can only use 4.5 of the 8gb GDDR5 RAM. XBone gives games 5gb I believe.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on July 26, 2013, 12:14:56 PM
So apparently the PS4 news was devs can only use 4.5 of the 8gb GDDR5 RAM. XBone gives games 5gb I believe.
I really wonder if that's going to make any difference in the long-term. Multiplatform games were always going to be essentially the same, and Sony's developers have turned-out some amazing-looking games on the PS3 despite its RAM limitations compared to the 360. Plus, while the PS4 allocates more memory to the OS, the PS4's DDR5 RAM is supposedly faster than the Xbone's DDR3 RAM, so that probably makes up the difference by itself.
I will say this, though: if the OS is going to reserve nearly half the system's RAM, it had better be ****ing awe-inspiring and lightning fast. For instance, I'd hope for no more 3 minute load times to get into the PS Store. And hopefully a large chunk of that RAM is dedicated to managing background downloads and patches so I don't have to care about them anymore, as Sony made that a big point of their PS4 reveal back in February.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on July 26, 2013, 01:44:05 PM
As I said on twitter. 3.5 GB is more then what Windows needs to be snappy and that is with much slower ram and not fixed hardware. That number can't be right. Unless their using the Memory as a Buffer pool for the Video stuff...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Soren on August 20, 2013, 02:36:17 PM
Nov. 15 NA Nov. 29 EU
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on August 20, 2013, 02:41:53 PM
Awesome Birthday for me.
Nov. 10th Titan's game 30-40 yard lane row k bottom section. Nov. 15th PS4 Nov. 25th Cake/Pie
Awesome
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: pokepal148 on August 20, 2013, 02:43:29 PM
As I said on twitter. 3.5 GB is more then what Windows needs to be snappy and that is with much slower ram and not fixed hardware. That number can't be right. Unless their using the Memory as a Buffer pool for the Video stuff...
its most likely thats the case in my opinion.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on August 20, 2013, 02:48:21 PM
Well, Sony had a good GamesCom: they showed a lot of Vita stuff (though no big Sony games on the level of Tearaway or Killzone Mercenary), they showed some interesting Indie stuff, they made fun of the Xbox One-Eighty, and they announced a Nov. 15 release date for the PS4. Not a great showing, but a good one. I'm definitely interested in Rime, at least.
Oh yeah, and the Vita got a much-needed price cut to $199, along with "significant discounts" on memory cards. That'll help.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Phil on August 20, 2013, 03:30:11 PM
That was incredibly boring. I guess those types of games just do nothing for me anymore.
Plus, them continually talking about indies and spotlighting them like Nintendo made me laugh when someone on my Twitter feed say it's like the both of them saying "hey, look at my black friend!"
EDIT: Games are games. I don't care the budget or the developer.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on August 20, 2013, 04:16:01 PM
That was incredibly boring. I guess those types of games just do nothing for me anymore.
Plus, them continually talking about indies and spotlighting them like Nintendo made me laugh when someone on my Twitter feed say it's like the both of them saying "hey, look at my black friend!"
EDIT: Games are games. I don't care the budget or the developer.
Sony has been spotlighting indes way before nintendo and having more indies proves that. While it does seem like that if you don't follow them that much. Alot of indie guys are friends with adam and Shaid and usually get talks started on twitter or when they were hanging out.
I will say the big problem is sony is coasting. Good but not great showings and winning off of gamers liking them more. Microsoft has had great showings with really great news but becuase they burned gamers they always come up short.
I was hoping on some more tradtional games for both consoles. Vita I was oping for some PS2 style rpgs and Platformers.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on August 20, 2013, 04:27:32 PM
I think Sony is coasting because it can. Next year will be another story.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: magicpixie on August 20, 2013, 04:43:55 PM
I think Sony is coasting because it can. Next year will be another story.
I hope so, for both consoles. I bought a 360 about 6 months after launch, and even then the library was fairly thin. The same was true for the PS3(to me, at least) and I bought that well after the death of the original BC model. I get occasional twitches of excitement for the launches of both consoles, and then I remember what launches are usually like. I'm good with what I've got for now, and my PC will still handle multiplats.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on August 20, 2013, 06:35:15 PM
After much deliberation (or is that consternation at the financial cost?) I've decided to keep my PS4 pre-order. Other than Knack, there's still not a whole lot at launch that interests me, but I am excited for Second Son and feel enthused about the approach Sony is taking to indies. As with all launches it's a gamble, but I guess that's part of the fun.
I should say that typically once I invest in a system it's to the detriment of all other consoles. That's partly to do with cost (there are too many games that interest me that to own multiple consoles would render me destitute) but also to do with attention span. There's usually only room for one console in my life.
...
I guess this is my way of saying that I'm probably not going to pick up a Wii U this generation.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 20, 2013, 06:55:46 PM
I keep going back and forth over whether I'm going to keep my preorder. Most of the games coming at launch I can also get on PS3. I'd double dip on FIFA 14 if I wouldn't lose all my progress from two months on the PS3. Also, that $400 could be put to better use around that time. Even still, it's hard to talk myself out of all the launch excitement.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on August 20, 2013, 08:05:26 PM
I keep going back and forth over whether I'm going to keep my preorder. Most of the games coming at launch I can also get on PS3. I'd double dip on FIFA 14 if I wouldn't lose all my progress from two months on the PS3. Also, that $400 could be put to better use around that time. Even still, it's hard to talk myself out of all the launch excitement.
EA announced that all your Fifa progress can be shared between the two. (http://www.gameranx.com/img/13-Jul/fifa-14-transfer.png)
I think Sony is setting up the Playstation ecosystem to kill Steam (or at least the steambox).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 20, 2013, 08:59:31 PM
You can share FIFA Ultimate Team stuff, which I don't care about, but you can't move your career mode files over, so I'd have to start over with all that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on August 20, 2013, 09:26:39 PM
Isn't seasons the career mode?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Phil on August 20, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
That was incredibly boring. I guess those types of games just do nothing for me anymore.
Plus, them continually talking about indies and spotlighting them like Nintendo made me laugh when someone on my Twitter feed say it's like the both of them saying "hey, look at my black friend!"
EDIT: Games are games. I don't care the budget or the developer.
Sony has been spotlighting indes way before nintendo and having more indies proves that. While it does seem like that if you don't follow them that much. Alot of indie guys are friends with adam and Shaid and usually get talks started on twitter or when they were hanging out.
I will say the big problem is sony is coasting. Good but not great showings and winning off of gamers liking them more. Microsoft has had great showings with really great news but becuase they burned gamers they always come up short.
I was hoping on some more tradtional games for both consoles. Vita I was oping for some PS2 style rpgs and Platformers.
No, I know that Sony has been proactively going after indies long before Nintendo. I'm just saying they're both spotlighting them in a way that seems unappealing to me.
EDIT: I hope that is more clear! :confused;
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 20, 2013, 09:33:12 PM
It's the seasons of Ultimate Team. The graphic you posted specifically says it's for Ultimate Team, which, again, I've never really cared about.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on August 20, 2013, 09:43:25 PM
*shrug* I'm getting a PS4 because my PS3 has served my family faithfully and with few problems.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on August 21, 2013, 03:47:23 PM
Can anyone render an opinion about Sony's launch hardware? That's my only real concern. Having never owned a Sony console, I'm not sure if their hardware is reliable at launch. I'm perfectly happy to buy at launch provided I can be assured that the thing will still work 3 years down the line.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on August 21, 2013, 03:56:24 PM
Can anyone render an opinion about Sony's launch hardware? That's my only real concern. Having never owned a Sony console, I'm not sure if their hardware is reliable at launch. I'm perfectly happy to buy at launch provided I can be assured that the thing will still work 3 years down the line.
My PS3 is near Pre-Revision from launch. It was a known problem that it needed extra cooling so mine with everyday use and the 3rd party fan has been going strong over 6 years.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on August 21, 2013, 04:04:08 PM
@ Ceric
Good to hear.
I have to say, I'm pretty psyched to have a new console on the horizon. Buying that Wii all those years ago feels like a lifetime ago.
It will also be only the second non-Nintendo console I've ever owned (with the first being the original Xbox). Exciting times.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on August 21, 2013, 06:45:55 PM
That's kind of a difficult question to answer. Firstly, I feel like I need to explain why the Wii U never seemed like a viable option for me.
Over the course of the Wii's lifespan I became dissatisfied with Nintendo and their inability to meet my appetite for games (both in terms of quantity and breadth of software), something which I feel was exacerbated by the very obvious limitations of the hardware itself. Put simply, I became increasingly frustrated with how oblivious Nintendo had become to what was happening in the rest of the industry. It seems to me that with the Wii Nintendo walked into a technological cul de sac and in so doing separated themselves from their competitors and from the tastes and expectations of a large proportion of gamers. The Wii was certainly a short-term success, but longer term I feel it will prove to have been detrimental. Nothing I have seen of Wii U has led me to believe that this trajectory is likely to change.
As I've said many times before, I really don't have any brand loyalty. My commitment to Nintendo consoles has always been conditional.
Xbox One was a consideration, but for me Sony has just made a more convincing case that their platform will suit my tastes. Although I've only ever appreciated it from afar, I really love what Sony has done with Playstation Plus. I dig their apparent renewed commitment to Indie games, and I've also always felt that Sony have the capacity (if not always the will) to get behind quirky games in a way that Microsoft might not.
I will, however, admit that historically I've never really enjoyed those games which Playstation fans hold dear. I hate Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil and Crash Bandicoot, and have never played the likes of Ico, Shadows of the Colossus, or Heavy Rain.
To be perfectly honest, much of why I'm choosing PS4 is based on speculation.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: toddra on August 21, 2013, 08:25:58 PM
I don't think any gamer has true brand loyalty, if they did we would all be playing Atari, Coleco, and Magnavox consoles and Nintendo would still be 3rd party only.
Why I am teetering is the same reasons mentioned, the games drought on Wii U is a turn off and the fear it won't improve much. PS4 appeals to me because it does more than just plays current gen games, it is also a true media hub and with my worthless Google TV no longer getting any official support and my cheap ass Roku crapping out on me, and my five year old profile 1.1 Blu Ray player not able to play every movie that comes out, I am in a desperate need for a more universal media machine. At this point I am also considering a Ps3 just cuz it is cheaper but also cuz it has a strong library of games but the price is still unbelieveably high for such an old console.
The game that has me most excited now is watch Dogs but I could get that on my laptop if I want to play it on low to medium settings.
I don't think Sony can achieve PS1/2 sales but I think they will be stronger than PS3 sales out the gate. Especially since they aren't really trying to push Blu Ray so the price is much more realistic.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Wah on August 21, 2013, 08:38:29 PM
If the games are good i'll buy it, i did skip PS3 so hopefully sony will pull me back!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on August 21, 2013, 10:40:57 PM
I don't think any gamer has true brand loyalty, if they did we would all be playing Atari, Coleco, and Magnavox consoles and Nintendo would still be 3rd party only.
Why I am teetering is the same reasons mentioned, the games drought on Wii U is a turn off and the fear it won't improve much. PS4 appeals to me because it does more than just plays current gen games, it is also a true media hub and with my worthless Google TV no longer getting any official support and my cheap ass Roku crapping out on me, and my five year old profile 1.1 Blu Ray player not able to play every movie that comes out, I am in a desperate need for a more universal media machine. At this point I am also considering a Ps3 just cuz it is cheaper but also cuz it has a strong library of games but the price is still unbelieveably high for such an old console.
The game that has me most excited now is watch Dogs but I could get that on my laptop if I want to play it on low to medium settings.
I don't think Sony can achieve PS1/2 sales but I think they will be stronger than PS3 sales out the gate. Especially since they aren't really trying to push Blu Ray so the price is much more realistic.
I dunno from what I gather from Gonintendo and Nintendolife there's alot of loyalty for Nintendo and even the mention of the other console makers get you skewered.
My chocies probably mirror yours Pixels.
A big factor was me was looking at the past year of Wii U games and looking at this fall and there's is I repeat only one Online enabled game. It shows nintendo doesn't get it when they're trying to push how awesome the Nintendo Network/Miiverse in but doesn't have any games that directly use it. Hell you'd think with the RTS/Moba boom Pikmin 3 online play would be a no brainer.
[/size][size=78%]Hell I'm not the biggest online gamer but I do play one game on the regular and usually dip my toe into others. Not having anything other than Monster Hunter till next year doesn't seem like Nintendo learned from the Wii. [/size]
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: lolmonade on August 29, 2013, 10:27:17 PM
I cancelled my preorder this week. As much as I look forward to the Playstation 4, I came to realize the one game I truly want the system for, inFamous, doesn't come out until February. Trying to learn my lesson after making the same mistake with the Wii U - wait until there are enough compelling games to justify the purchase.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on August 30, 2013, 01:04:45 AM
I wanna get Killzone, B4, CoD:G, and Knack. :3
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on August 30, 2013, 01:33:23 AM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 24, 2013, 09:22:59 PM
I hate the look and feel of Sony's OS. The PS3 OS is one of the worst designed OS. It is completely not user friendly.
Give me the Xbox 360 ad filled, or the whimsical but Nintendo OS any day.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on September 24, 2013, 09:31:50 PM
How is it not user friendly? It lets me do what I need to do, and very easily. I've never had a problem to do anything at all.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 24, 2013, 09:35:46 PM
I'm a big fan of the PS3 XMB interface. I don't think you could do much better on a system without any kind of touch screen or pointing device. This new one looks too much like what Microsoft's doing, which doesn't fit the control scheme at all.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 24, 2013, 09:44:50 PM
I agree, XMB is a great layout. It does take a little bit of getting used to, but it's way better than the current XBox 360 layout and the Xbone layout.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on September 25, 2013, 05:14:58 PM
I have to come in as supporting XMB as well. I'm sad its going away but do admit that with large game and media collections it needs a little more.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on September 25, 2013, 05:23:47 PM
I agree, XMB is a great layout. It does take a little bit of getting used to, but it's way better than the current XBox 360 layout and the Xbone layout.
Ugh no. XMB is one the slickest OSs from a design standpoint but from a functionality and usability standpoint its ass.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on September 25, 2013, 11:55:36 PM
How is the XMB hard to use? Everything is arranged in rows (categories), with all the subcategories in columns.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 26, 2013, 02:35:24 AM
It's very utilitarian. It doesn't look as nice as the more elaborate interfaces Microsoft uses, but unlike those, it fits the input device it has really well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on September 26, 2013, 01:01:37 PM
How is the XMB hard to use? Everything is arranged in rows (categories), with all the subcategories in columns.
That's bad design. You should be able to get through menu's and clicks in as Little time as possible. Plus the more content you add to the system the more cumbersome XMB becomes.
I really like what the PS4 UI seems to be doing. Plus the store seems to be baked into the OS instead of a separate app which gives it extra points. (my biggest problem with the Wii U)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 26, 2013, 01:18:27 PM
You want to be able to get through things efficiently and yet you want to use Metro with a gamepad?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 26, 2013, 01:30:42 PM
Well I do agree that having a lot of content makes it a pain. Perhaps they should use thumbnails (like rows of 4) instead of stacked labels once you get like 4 things in a category. Too late now though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on September 26, 2013, 01:36:59 PM
You want to be able to get through things efficiently and yet you want to use Metro with a gamepad?
Bumpers can switch between each tab pretty quickly
(http://i.imgur.com/TtoWLgV.jpg)
The Same thing can be done on games as well. (http://i.imgur.com/479lrPw.jpg)
Even ignoring that I can search for anything on Xbox Live. (http://i.imgur.com/Ft0dHT4.jpg)
Even just using the sticks its less work than on the PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on September 26, 2013, 03:00:17 PM
I've never had any problems with the XMB, honestly. Yeah, you have to spend 5 minutes learning where certain features are, but once I did I could quickly navigate to any feature of my choosing in seconds. My only real gripe with it is that the PS3's lack of available memory makes the thing almost unusable during gameplay and there's almost no multitasking capability.
So far, I'm really not sure what to think about the PS4's UI. It seems usable enough, but it also seems to value large pictures and social network B.S. over speed of access, much like the 360's Dashboard does. Maybe I'll like it better once I'm holding the controller in my hands and get a feel for it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on September 26, 2013, 03:04:18 PM
I need to see more pictures of the top level of the PS4 UI.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 26, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
I think my problem with XMB is the fact it does not appear intuitive to the eye.
Look at the screen. icons appear above and below the main icon. It's sloppy. You scroll through and select something...pushing a button if it is the wrong button it doesn't work...but there is NO INDICATION of what button to push. It's sloppy horrible design. It isn't pleasing to the eye, but it is just barely functional.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on September 27, 2013, 10:51:15 AM
I've always found it clean and utilitarian. I guess in that vain one of my biggest faults with it is how folders are done. I think it should go Horizontal Bar -> Vertical Bar -> Horizantal Bar -> Vertical Bar Etc.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 09, 2013, 06:55:35 PM
Earlier today I received an email from Amazon UK advising me that I was eligible to upgrade my pre-order to one of Sony's recently announced bundles (I guess they must be giving people who pre-ordered early first dibs).
Up until today I had been undecided as to which game I wanted to buy at launch. Quite frankly, although I'm excited for the system, the games available at launch don't really appeal to me. Despite this, I have opted to take the Killzone bundle for two reasons.
Firstly, I haven't spent very much time with First-Person Shooters since Halo 2. So I'm not burnt out on the genre like some 360 and PS3 owners may have become.
Secondly, I wanted to have a game at launch which gives me a more holistic view of what the platform is all about. For my money Killzone seems to be one of the graphical showcases at launch, it also seems to have both a strong single player and multiplayer component, and is the type of game that I feel will put the new controller through it's paces. In other words, it's not so much the game itself as it is what it reveals about the system that interests me.
My question, however, for any Sony fans out there is whether or not Killzone (as a series) is actually any fun to play? I'd also be interested to hear which games other PS4 adopters are thinking of picking up at launch?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on October 09, 2013, 09:47:57 PM
I'd say if you want to play another Killzone game, stick with Killzone 3 on the PS3 and Killzone Mercenary on the Vita. I like Killzone 2, but both it & Killzone 1 are fairly generic as FPS games go.
And as I've said before, I'm going with Killzone: Shadow Fall and Knack at launch. Depending on how much I still dislike Open World games by then, I might pick up Watch_Dogs as well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: oohhboy on October 10, 2013, 03:08:51 AM
If Killzone wasn't a Sony prestige project it would have died. It's mechanically sound, but ugly and a chore to play.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: azeke on October 10, 2013, 03:32:59 AM
I will never understand people who buy consoles "just because", when it has no games that are interesting to them.
You might as well get carton box with a nifty picture on it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on October 10, 2013, 08:36:39 AM
I will never understand people who buy consoles "just because", when it has no games that are interesting to them.
You might as well get carton box with a nifty picture on it.
Well in my case it's not just 'because'. There are quite a few games which I'm interested in (it's just that most of them aren't available on launch day) such as Second Sons, Deep Down, Resogun, Transistor, and The Witness. Although I know very little about them, I'm also intrigued by some of the FTP offerings including Blacklight, Driveclub and Warthunder. I don't know if they'll be any good, but I'd like to give them a go.
As with any console launch many people will make their purchasing decision based on the system's potential rather than what's immediately available. If you are to be an early adopter, therefore, you will tend to fall into one of two camps (or perhaps both); either you're the type of person for whom money is of little concern, or you are reasonably sure that the platform will cater to your tastes and that the purchase is justified. I certainly don't fall in to the former category, but I am pretty confident that my purchase will be justified.
Plus, I know it sounds hokey but I do enjoy the excitement of launches. Despite the weeks and months which followed I still have fond memories of the 3DS launch. There weren't many games that initially interested me there either, but as it turns out I ended up loving Street Fighter IV, and the built in software was great. Sometimes if you open yourself up to trying new games or new platforms you might be surprised by what you enjoy.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 10, 2013, 10:00:09 AM
I will never understand people who buy consoles "just because", when it has no games that are interesting to them.
You might as well get carton box with a nifty picture on it.
Hey now, I bought my Wii U on faith that Nintendo had a competent product and promises of support from major 3rd parties. How was I to know that we were all being lied to?
I'm sure all those games that interest me will come one day though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on October 10, 2013, 11:19:46 AM
Its not overly clear but, should I feel jealous of these bundles? I'm getting Playstation 4, Eye, Extra Controller, and Skylanders Swap Force. I know at least one of them includes all that but, Swap Force. I just can't seem to find what the difference is from the base price.
Personally, I like being in the select group with the new toy. The buy-in is normally not bad and I don't want to have to stress to find one when their is a game I definitely want, see Wii. With the PS3 I didn't get it initially until my PS2 died and the BC ones where going out the door. Then I grabbed a BC one. It has been and entertainment champ for over 7 years and thats why I'm getting a PS4. I've gotten vastly more out of my PS3 that it covers the PS4's up front cost.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on October 10, 2013, 12:46:36 PM
If Killzone wasn't a Sony prestige project it would have died. It's mechanically sound, but ugly and a chore to play.
What was the last game in the series you actually played, though? Killzone 3 and Mercenary are beautiful games that play faster & smoother than the 1st two in the series.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on October 10, 2013, 04:06:53 PM
I should try KZ 3. I couldn't even finish the KZ 2 demo.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 17, 2013, 03:12:17 PM
DAMN IT.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 17, 2013, 03:14:13 PM
Never mind. These forums are terrible for youtube.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 17, 2013, 08:58:20 PM
I was trying to post this.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on October 18, 2013, 10:13:18 AM
Drive Club delayed until next year so Cotrast will be the free for next month.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on October 18, 2013, 12:30:16 PM
Drive Club delayed until next year so Cotrast will be the free for next month.
I don't give a **** about this game, but this delay's going to hurt Sony. The PS4's lineup is now pretty much two games: Knack & Killzone: Shadow Fall. Their Winter/Spring 2014 looks considerably better now, but I think Driveclub's only shot at selling alright would have been as a launch title.
And Sony...a weird little Indie game is no replacement for a full retail game in the Instant Games collection. I realize your hands are somewhat tied here, but I doubt Contrast is going to sell PS+ Subscriptions.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on October 27, 2013, 03:45:47 AM
Drive Club delayed until next year so Cotrast will be the free for next month.
I don't give a **** about this game, but this delay's going to hurt Sony. The PS4's lineup is now pretty much two games: Knack & Killzone: Shadow Fall. Their Winter/Spring 2014 looks considerably better now, but I think Driveclub's only shot at selling alright would have been as a launch title.
And Sony...a weird little Indie game is no replacement for a full retail game in the Instant Games collection. I realize your hands are somewhat tied here, but I doubt Contrast is going to sell PS+ Subscriptions.
Nope, but getting a year from Gamestop on BF for $30 will probably sell pretty well.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on October 30, 2013, 03:07:36 PM
Sony just released their official FAQ on the PlayStation Blog, and it comes with some very bad news.
Will users be able to connect an external hard drive to expand storage on PS4? No, this feature is not supported on PS4.
Will I be able to play background music while I play PS4 games? Yes, the Music Unlimited streaming service will allow you to listen to music while you play PS4 games. A subscription to Music Unlimited is required. Get full details here (http://www.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/music-unlimited/why-music-unlimited/). Does PS4 include a music visualizer feature? No.
No external hard drive support (so no backing up data if the console breaks). No MP3 playback. Forcing Music Unlimited on us just to play music. Bad form, Sony.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on October 30, 2013, 03:10:36 PM
The lack of external hard drive support is disappointing, but if swapping out hard drives on the PS4 is as simple as it is on the PS3 than I really don't care. As for the rest, I don't play mp3s on my PS3 as it is.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on October 30, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
So how am I supposed to backup my game data and downloads if I want to swap out the hard drive?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on October 30, 2013, 03:57:21 PM
Well, Frankly, No DLNA Support is a Kick in the Balls out of everything with that being said. I had open my Camera and DualShock 4 so I be out $121 if I come to the wholly rational decision to Cancel my PS4 Pre-Order.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on October 30, 2013, 04:01:23 PM
So how am I supposed to backup my game data and downloads if I want to swap out the hard drive?
I'm sure there's some kind of backup system in place, just as there currently is on PS3. I'm not terribly worried about that before the system has even launched.
I don't have any use for DLNA (I never could get the feature to work reliably on my PS3), but that is a shame. I wonder how many weeks it'll take the hackers to figure out how to add that feature.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on October 30, 2013, 04:49:31 PM
So how am I supposed to backup my game data and downloads if I want to swap out the hard drive?
delete stuff you aren't using and save to the cloud. Even on my 360 I've transferred all of my non active saves to the cloud with the ones I'm playing being the only ones on the system.
DLNA is a bit of a deal breaker. I've gotten used to throwing videos and music to my TV.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Stogi on October 31, 2013, 04:26:10 AM
No harddrive support? I guess they're worried someone might hack the system and play games off of it. heh
No DLNA? Does that mean no media server? I use that all the time. Movie night is much simpler when I don't have to download a movie THEN file transfer it from my computer. Just download and go.
No MP3's? I don't use the feature much but it was always nice as a backup plan.
I game a bit when I can, but the PS3 much more of a media hub...a way for my computer to communicate with my TV. Watching the latest _____ just isn't the same on a laptop after all. If that has been compromised, I see no reason to upgrade.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on October 31, 2013, 07:19:25 AM
Talked it over with the Misses. It all comes down to whether we think that Sony is going to patch in DLNA soon and if we think that there is going to be a price drop before they do that. Comments made by Sony leads me to believe their won't be in the first year ir second year.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on October 31, 2013, 08:37:16 AM
I think they will eventually. Someone from Sony already responded albeit on Twitter, an unofficial "I'll let the team know" type thing. When no one uses their own service, Sony will probably patch it in if they think it will help sales.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on October 31, 2013, 10:36:43 AM
Yoshida is the one who said they'd ask about DLNA and MP3 Support. No DLNA means no media server and No MP3 was a given becuase PS4 can't read CDs I think.
To play devils advocate while Xbox One doesn't support WMC it doesn't hurt that it supports DLNA, and arubly one could write an app it. Even if you don't have Xbox Video there were a few other music apps in a leaked build of the OS.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 31, 2013, 12:00:06 PM
To play devils advocate while Xbox One doesn't support WMC it doesn't hurt that it supports DLNA, and arubly one could write an app it. Even if you don't have Xbox Video there were a few other music apps in a leaked build of the OS.
Even if it does support DLNA, it would probably still require a XBL Gold account to access your own home network.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on October 31, 2013, 12:32:42 PM
To play devils advocate while Xbox One doesn't support WMC it doesn't hurt that it supports DLNA, and arubly one could write an app it. Even if you don't have Xbox Video there were a few other music apps in a leaked build of the OS.
Even if it does support DLNA, it would probably still require a XBL Gold account to access your own home network.
It doesn't. I use DLNA on my 360 and it doesn't need any Gold membership.
More on Topic I hope Quantic Dream's next project isn't some uber cinematic movie product. I think the studio would benefit from being run less like a Giant Movie Studio and more like a TV production studio. Have mutiple episoidic products running alongside each other like telltale has. Smaller monthly 1 hour productions that still allow for the choices that David Cage has a hard on for.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 01, 2013, 05:08:09 PM
So PS4 doesn't support external hard drives, yet Wii U does... Nice irony there.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 01, 2013, 05:32:12 PM
PS4 supports *internal* hard drives. You can swap out the stock one just like on PS3. Not proprietary.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Kytim89 on November 01, 2013, 05:51:37 PM
So PS4 doesn't support external hard drives, yet Wii U does... Nice irony there.
If enough feathers are ruffled then I could see Sony adding a firmware update that allows external storage. The reason Nintendo went with the storage solution is that people have spare HDDs lying around the house and an external conversion kit is very cheap. The issue with the PS4 is that unless someone constantly deletes and re-downloads games then they will eventually run out of space. There are HDDs that exceed the two terabyte limit, but they are too big to fit into the PS4. Although I had an idea of hose to run and external four terabyte HDD (3.5 inch) to an adapter that fits inside the PS4's HDD docking station, but this might void the warranty.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 02, 2013, 01:39:55 PM
So PS4 doesn't support external hard drives, yet Wii U does... Nice irony there.
How so. The Wii U doesn't even come with a Harddrive in the first place and to do anything else on the console its another $60-$100 expense. Its kind of ironic that Nintendo is pushing hard for digital content when the console can't hold that much.
Plus with the Playstation 4 you can swamp out the HDDs. '
This month's Playstation Plus games (http://i.imgur.com/NoLbhEy.png)
Launch Line up for the PS4
First Party Games Flower Killzone: Shadowfall Knack ResoGun Sound Shapes Playroom
Third Party Games Angry Birds Star Wars Assassins Creed IV" Black Flag Call of Duty: Ghosts DC Universe Online Fifa 14 Battlefield 4 Just Dance 2014 Injustice: Gods among US Ultimate Edition Lego Marvel Super Heroes Madden NFL 25 NBA 2k14 Skylanders: Swamp Fprce
Indie Contrast Pinball Arcade Super Motherload Tiny Brians Warframe
A prettty nice lanch line up that mirror's the Wii U in alot of ways. There's also a few games set for that might make the launch depending if the dev can get it out on time. I know Trine 2 and War Thunder were some of them.
The biggest thing Sony has done right that I feel Nintendo did so wrong is cultivate a good post launch line up for the PS4's first year. Sony pushed themselves being indie friendly early on to make a good post launch support from big third parties as well as indies. Plus sony themselves are looking to support the console with DD and retail games..
PS4 Launch Window games from Sony
Escape Plan Flow Drive Club Infamous second Son Doki Doki Universe MLB 14 hohokum Helldivers Shadows of the beast Rime everybody's gone to the rapture
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on November 02, 2013, 03:15:08 PM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 05, 2013, 01:53:37 PM
Hmm...with these recent screens, it looks like there's more of the XMB in this interface than I thought. In my eyes, that's a good thing since I liked the XMB.
On a side note, Knack's out today. I'll be picking it up on my way into work. Yeah, I know...it's pointless since I can't actually play anything, but I need to put down my preorder for Ratchet & Clank: Into the Nexus anyway.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 06, 2013, 02:15:29 AM
So over the past couple of weeks, I've been picking up my retail PS4 launch library, and I've been seeing something on these games' cases I find very alarming (besides the lack of manuals. Seriously, **** the digital future):
What. The. ****? Between just those 2 launch games, I'm already down 82 GB on the default 500 GB PS4 HDD. Throw in the Day 1 PSN downloads (Resogun, Contrast, Flower, Sound Shapes, etc.); the mandatory 300 MB Day 1 firmware update; and the no-doubt mandatory patches for all these games, and I'm probably well over 1/5 - 2/5 of my HDD used up on the first day.
Sheesh, no wonder Sony made such a big deal about being able to play games as you download them, because with 30-50 GB games as the base level downloads/installs you'd never get to play anything otherwise! I'm sure as **** not going to get to play anything that first night, that's for sure. And I'm definitely going to have to get a larger HDD right out of the gate just to avoid some pre-SD card patch Wii-level fridge cleaning. Unfortunately, I think my options for that HDD may top out at a TB or 2.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 06, 2013, 07:48:49 AM
Blu-Ray lasers are expensive to replace. Be happy that the game gets installed to the HDD.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 06, 2013, 08:54:57 AM
The height Requirement is what really gets it. I would not be surprised if their is an adapter by the end of the month or so design wise that will be a way to put on an external drive self power drive.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 06, 2013, 08:26:49 PM
Tiny Brains and Piball arcade are out for launch. Replacing them will be Blacklight and Trine 2.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on November 06, 2013, 08:48:35 PM
They've already said most of that **** is being cached while installing. Come on
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 07, 2013, 02:10:31 AM
Tiny Brains and Piball arcade are out for launch. Replacing them will be Blacklight and Trine 2.
No surprise there. FarSight still hasn't even shown up for the Wii U launch, and they owe me Wii U Kickstarter codes. I don't know if I even care enough to get Pinball Arcade on PS4 anyway, as I play that series on my Vita where it "feels" better (even if that version of the game looks worse than the iOS version). I really can't say I care about Trine 2. I already own it on PS3 and Wii U, and I really don't see the point of buying it a third time.
They've already said most of that **** is being cached while installing. Come on
Regardless, there's still going to be a lot of crap to download Day 1 on the PS4, and I doubt it can do it all at once so my PS4's probably going to spend all night downloading updates/installing game data. Even if it's caching the install data, that's still a ton of data taking up space on your HDD. Hopefully it's worth it and 30+ GB games are more the exception than the rule (though no doubt that's a fool's hope at this point).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 07, 2013, 09:56:48 AM
Than download the PS+ games first and maybe what ever free to play game ticles your fancy so you play with them and the OS while Knack installs.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on November 07, 2013, 11:19:12 AM
Plus, the PS3's HDD space went from 20GB to 500GB during the life of the console. It may that be viable now, but it will be in the future. I'm just glad Sony is planning for the future.
And you only need to download 7GB of Killzone before you can start playing.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 07, 2013, 12:57:10 PM
... And you only need to download 7GB of Killzone before you can start playing.
You make it sound like thats not a lot. WoW allows similar function and let me tell you waiting for just that initial info is torturous at times. 7GB on most connections is nothing to sneeze at.
http://www.numion.com/Calculators/Time.html
An a 10Mb/s connection that is 01:33:20 but, more than likely Sony's upload bandwidth. I couldn't find good numbers for what PSN currently does.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 07, 2013, 03:20:27 PM
... And you only need to download 7GB of Killzone before you can start playing.
You make it sound like thats not a lot. WoW allows similar function and let me tell you waiting for just that initial info is torturous at times. 7GB on most connections is nothing to sneeze at.
An a 10Mb/s connection that is 01:33:20 but, more than likely Sony's upload bandwidth. I couldn't find good numbers for what PSN currently does.
Well, let's assume for a moment that Sony's PS4 PSN servers are just as shitty as the ones that run the PS3 & Vita's PSNs. They probably won't be ordinarily, but they probably will be on launch day just due to everyone hitting the servers at once. In any case, it takes my PS3 about 3-4 hours to download a 7 GB file on an average night. Sometimes it's faster, and sometimes it's slower but that's about the average. That's a long time to wait on launch night to play a portion of one of your games. At Midnight/1 AM, that's pretty much "leave your PS4 on overnight and let it download stuff" territory.
The real question for me will be install times since I'm primarily concerned with the disc-based games. I've seen the PS3 just crawl through a 6-7 GB install in 30 minutes to an hour, depending on the title. Hopefully the PS4 is faster.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 07, 2013, 03:39:20 PM
It would have to be. Remember the PS3 is using a Gen 1 Blu-Ray Drive. To not mess with developer no matter how fast the drive you put in it will go as fast as a Gen 1 Blu-Ray Drive. That's true for the Harddrive in the PS3 as well, which I hope they lift that for the PS4. So its suppose to have a 6x Blu-Ray drive so I assume it be half that at least.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 07, 2013, 05:23:26 PM
This brings the question. How big are Nintendo's Eshop full download games and how long did it take to download?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Kytim89 on November 07, 2013, 09:20:15 PM
This brings the question. How big are Nintendo's Eshop full download games and how long did it take to download?
At least few GBs. The size wouldn't really be the problem, if server speed didn't suck so much.
Also i had "corrupted" errors with all big downloads. Had to re-download Wonderful 101 twice (took two days). Now my Wii U at home is redownloading 4Gb Wii Fit U after the same error (not quite sure why -- i don't have a Balance Board [yet?]).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 08, 2013, 07:23:42 AM
With only 500GB included and downlaod caps going all digital isn't remotely viable which is a blessing in disguise to keep physical discs.
One thing I found annoying were the hoops to jump to redeem the three month PS+ card I bought yesterday. It wouldn't let me reedem it off the SEN website (which is pretty well desgined on mobile) so I downloaded the media Go application on my computer and was able to redeem it through that.
Console is giving me PS1 feels as this is the only time since than and maybe the Wii where I want other color controllers. (http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/large/9c438e46gw1eadb6h5xnnj21kw11xwoz.jpg)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on November 08, 2013, 07:52:23 AM
I like the blue controller.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on November 08, 2013, 07:57:41 AM
Yeah, me too. Red is actually my favourite colour, but that tone of Blue looks great and it fits well with the aesthetic of the console itself.
I might have to pick one up at some point.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 08, 2013, 11:13:31 AM
I didn't plan on getting a second controller since I planed on using a Vite for those requirements.
All launch day PS4's come with a 30 day trail of PS+, $10 store credit, and Music Unlimited for 30 days. (http://i.imgur.com/7lQhOeE.jpg)
So there you go without buying anything else you have three games off the back.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on November 08, 2013, 03:40:41 PM
Do you know if that offer is US exclusive, or whether or not it will apply to other regions?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 08, 2013, 04:38:38 PM
I just played a PS4 and honestly, if you had handed me a Wii U Controller, I wouldn't have guesses that it wasn't a Wii U game. I saw no real graphical difference between Knack and The wonderful 101 except for maybe at style.
The unit itself wasn't bad looking though.
No XB1 in sight where I was at though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 08, 2013, 05:41:19 PM
What about all the polygons on knack and stuff. TBH the most impressive part of Knack seems to be the enviorment to me and even that seems a bit half baked with them being empty.
You play killzone?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 08, 2013, 06:09:28 PM
Knack may not have been the best presentation for the PS4, but it was the best on display for the kiosk. Yeah, there was some neat particle effects, that are nothing more than a quickly forgotten effect after the 1st few times you see the character "explode" in all directions. But it really didn't look like anything that couldn't be done on the Wii U to almost identical effect.
Killzone was not present, and I left most unimpressed. They could have put the PS3 sign in front of it and I wouldn't have noticed any difference.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on November 08, 2013, 06:17:43 PM
What a fanboy
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 08, 2013, 06:40:19 PM
Knack's unfortunately probably one of those games that's more technologically impressive than it seems at first and just doesn't demo well. Sadly, Killzone being M rated is probably why it isn't a demo game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Kytim89 on November 08, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
Most Playstation 4 games are going to look like PS3 games because Sony's developers most likely do not have enough time to fully take advantage of the hardware yet. After a year or so then the PS4 games will better than what it has right now. The Wii U is the same case. It is not equal to the PS360, but can still be competitive against its newer rivals.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on November 08, 2013, 07:18:33 PM
I dropped my preorder for a PS4. I decided there were no games I wanted at launch and I was out on paternity leave in October, so my funds for November will be light. I think I'll wait to get one until either a price drop or if FFXV or KHIII are released (or another amazing game is released that I haven't seen yet). With so little home network media available on it, I think I'll stick with the PS3 for now. I may even get another one if the deals for them are great.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2013, 09:29:50 PM
KHIII is a myth. My Son may play it with his future wife when he goes to college but, I still doubt that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 08, 2013, 09:52:53 PM
So are we making new threads since both consoles are coming out soon. Either two separate ones or a mega non Nintendo thread?
If so I wouldn't mind making them as I have some time to kill.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 08, 2013, 10:03:44 PM
Keep them split.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 08, 2013, 10:56:05 PM
Why do we need new threads? No one ever reads the first post once the thread is past the first page anyway. I'll just update the title to something catchy for the launch (suggestions always welcome) and we keep it rolling.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 09, 2013, 01:55:56 AM
every game annouced for the system thus far. (http://i3.minus.com/ibyWXTkiHLeXKQ.png)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 09, 2013, 02:38:08 AM
You missed one, and it's one of the Kickstarters I backed earlier this year: Soul Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/disastercake/soul-saga-a-j-rpg-inspired-by-playstation-classics).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on November 09, 2013, 07:07:21 AM
I just played a PS4 and honestly, if you had handed me a Wii U Controller, I wouldn't have guesses that it wasn't a Wii U game. I saw no real graphical difference between Knack and The wonderful 101 except for maybe at style.
I have no doubt that PS4/One games will look better than Wii U games in time, but the gap in visual advancements with newer hardware is getting narrower. We already had reactive eyes (e.g. blinking, looking around) and individual fingers by the time we got to HD. In terms of graphics, we're just getting better effects that we either generally don't notice or take for granted when playing a game. We have to stop to appreciate these things. How often do we do that in games? For how long?
That said, good graphics is just what I expect these days rather than something that draws my attention as spoiled as that makes me sound. It's like when I watch a big budget action movie. Amazing special effects should just be there. I'm more interested in what they do with it. In Man of Steel, Faora throws Superman into a bank vault. I was impressed by the creativity of the scene more than the effects that make up the scene. I remember looking at CG 10 to 15 years ago and thinking, "Wow!" It's not like that anymore. I don't know if I'm explaining that well enough, but I feel the same way with videogames. All these games look good graphically for the most part. I almost feel like a developer has to try to make a game look bad and even then, sometimes it's on purpose and at that point, is it even "bad" anymore?
So that's what I'm looking for. I already expect the games to look good. How are they using those graphics to draw me into the game's world? It's making me far more critical of other parts of a game. I plan on making the transition to PS4 when the releases warrant the transition (price and available time are other considerations). That's kind of weird to me because in the past, I was drawn to the newness of next-generation hardware. Wii U may be the last time I buy any hardware at launch.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on November 09, 2013, 07:35:50 AM
That is so wrong its hilarious. Ask any PC gamer. Or hell, actually play a game like Killzone SF right next to a game like Wonderful 101.
If I could figure out how illustrate the difference (I tried to upload some screenshots I took but uploaded I used compressed them to ****) that graphics will get better and that they are noticable .
Particle effects, graphics that look identical to CGI (despite what Adrock thinks, nothing has gotten this close with the exception of Agni's Philosophy).
I'm not saying that the PS4 is there yet, but to say it can't get much better than this due to HD is very ignorant.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 09, 2013, 07:53:17 AM
It really is a shame for Sony that they can't use Killzone for their demo units because that game looks incredible. Like somebody said, it isn't immediately apparent how good Knack looks, but Killzone leaves no room to argue that this isn't a major jump.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on November 09, 2013, 09:14:39 AM
That is so wrong its hilarious. Ask any PC gamer. Or hell, actually play a game like Killzone SF right next to a game like Wonderful 101.
I've watched my brother play PC games dozens of times. Can I notice the better graphics? Yes, sure, but I'm not actually focusing on it. I'm following what's on screen. I'm not claiming the differences aren't there rather that people may appreciate them less.
Additionally, my first sentence was basically stating that even if BlackNMild can't notice a graphical difference in launch games, I think he probably will in future games (though he was comparing W101 to Knack and I can see where he's coming from). I feel like that's partially what you're taking issue with even though I'm agreeing with you to a point. The differences will be more apparent if they aren't already. However, on a separate note, I'm not sure they actually matter. To some people they might. To others (like myself), it's what I expect rather than something I'm impressed by anymore.
Quote
(despite what Adrock thinks, nothing has gotten this close with the exception of Agni's Philosophy).
I didn't say it got close; I said gaps in graphical advancements are getting narrower. That's not the same thing. Making something narrower doesn't inherently make it close; it merely makes it closer.
I remember when Solid Snake's character model didn't have eyes then three years later, he totally did. To me, that was a big jump. I appreciated the jump more than going from HD to better looking HD. Perhaps you disagree and that's fine. I won't argue your opinion. However, I will offer a retort if I don't think you are interpreting what I'm saying correctly.
Quote
to say it can't get much better than this due to HD is very ignorant.
Nope, I didn't say that either. I admit that I'm spoiled rotten by graphics these days. I've lived through most of the major generational advancements. The last time I was really impressed was when we got to HD. Again, that's not the same thing as saying effects "can't get much better." Eventually, we are going to hit a wall. Personally, I've already gotten to the point where graphics are already so good that I don't care how much better they get. I still think Samus in Metroid Prime looks good.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on November 09, 2013, 09:32:21 AM
I knew this sounded familiar and I already addressed this with you.
I don't play games on PC though I've watched my brother game on PC for the last two years or so. I've mostly been exposed to PS3 which still look good to me. PC games look better, but they don't make PS3 games looks bad. Mainly, I've just gotten used to seeing games beyond standard 480p be it on PS3 or PC and I find myself less impressed by graphics. I know that makes me sound spoiled, but it's also helped me appreciate art design more. It's just far more important to a game's look. Something like Wind Waker still holds up even for a 10 year old game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 09, 2013, 09:49:30 AM
So out of those games these look like they might be interesting:
The Playroom (which I think come with the system) Wonder Flick Transistor Resgun Strider Skylanders Swap Force Knack Contrast (seemed interest and since its the PS+ Freebie...) BG&E2 (Sort of obligated to) KHIII (See above) The Order 1886 (This is one I might enjoy the lore more than the game (See Metal Gear Solid)) Destiny Mad Max (when the price is right)
Those are the ones that caught my eye. Their may be more once I do some research. Now if Sony Steam sales like on the PS4 I'll probably end up with a lot of those.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 09, 2013, 12:12:43 PM
So out of those games these look like they might be interesting:
The Playroom (which I think come with the system) Wonder Flick Transistor Resgun Strider Skylanders Swap Force Knack Contrast (seemed interest and since its the PS+ Freebie...) BG&E2 (Sort of obligated to) KHIII (See above) The Order 1886 (This is one I might enjoy the lore more than the game (See Metal Gear Solid)) Destiny Mad Max (when the price is right)
Those are the ones that caught my eye. Their may be more once I do some research. Now if Sony Steam sales like on the PS4 I'll probably end up with a lot of those.
So is Sony "keeping you hanging on" to your PS4 preorder? You were wavering there for a while. Hopefully when we record our big PS4 episode next weekend, I won't be the ONLY person with a PS4. </peer pressure> :p
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 09, 2013, 12:47:01 PM
So out of those games these look like they might be interesting:
The Playroom (which I think come with the system) Wonder Flick Transistor Resgun Strider Skylanders Swap Force Knack Contrast (seemed interest and since its the PS+ Freebie...) BG&E2 (Sort of obligated to) KHIII (See above) The Order 1886 (This is one I might enjoy the lore more than the game (See Metal Gear Solid)) Destiny Mad Max (when the price is right)
Those are the ones that caught my eye. Their may be more once I do some research. Now if Sony Steam sales like on the PS4 I'll probably end up with a lot of those.
MALFORMED XML :p
What was that you said sonny :P
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 09, 2013, 01:24:19 PM
I'm a bit suprised we haven't had Littlebig planet announced for the PS4 yet. (http://i.minus.com/i4QwrpbXAyp8F.gif)
a decent sized video of the PS4 UI.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on November 09, 2013, 02:12:03 PM
Did the Vita version sell well? Our the karting game?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 10, 2013, 10:03:13 AM
Link above is for a video tear down of the PS4. Pretty interesting - very similar to the PS3 Slim design. Disappointed with the Blu Ray drive design (again). The Wii/Wii U have a much better design for their optical drives, similar to a slim drive on a PC. Other than that it looks pretty cool.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 11, 2013, 09:58:13 AM
(http://i.minus.com/iTQggNrW2WjBG.gif)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 11, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
Nice Graphic.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 12, 2013, 03:28:56 PM
(http://i.minus.com/ippVwcMwyCAwG.gif)
WB Games announced a new LOTR game called Mordor for all current and next gen systems expect the one.
What's New (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nolicjh.png) (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_no7te24.png) (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_noe3cah.png) (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_no5jc4u.png) (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nouyika.png) (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_no8fexy.png)
Live Details (http://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nohueh7.png[/imghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_no50cgj.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_noq4iwb.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_noybe4o.pngPS Storehttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_non1fxf.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_noxifuz.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nolleem.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nonxc37.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nom3efn.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_norlcpl.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_novsc5m.pnghttp://abload.de/img/ps4_launch_broll_1_nolbfis.pngYou can get a PS4 right now if your in NY)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ymeegod on November 13, 2013, 09:41:19 AM
Reviews are finally coming in for Knack (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/13/knack-review) and Killzone 4 (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/13/killzone-shadow-fall-review). Knack was blasted for being to simple/boring while KZ4 fared a bit better with stunning graphics with crappy story mode which is pretty much an trademark for the whole KZ franchise.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Oblivion on November 13, 2013, 01:12:06 PM
And for some fucking reason no one is concentrating on the multiplayer. Just like the morons who concentrated on reviewing B4's singleplayer.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 13, 2013, 01:49:51 PM
Were the Server's up at the time.
Anywho what is everyone's PSN ID's so we can add each other. Mine is shingi_70.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 13, 2013, 01:56:22 PM
Ceric its in my profile
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: magicpixie on November 13, 2013, 04:29:07 PM
Just thought I'd throw out a little warning to anybody who was planning on picking up Battlefield 4 at launch with their PS4. The game has been a buggy mess for the last couple of weeks, and most people have been experiencing crashes, both client and server. This goes for both PC and last-gen consoles. I hadn't seen any mentions of these issues in reviews, so you might want to wait things out before picking it up on PS4. EA/DICE put out a patch today, so some of the issues may have been resolved, but I saw reports of people having problems logging in to Origin, so they may have broken something there, too. Multiplayer is a blast when it works, though, so you should definitely look to pick it up.
I'm kind of glad to see mostly average reviews for the games so far. NBA 2k14 and Killzone were really starting to get to me, but I think I'll hold out at least until Christmas. I'm still really hyped for Destiny and a next-gen MLB The Show.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 13, 2013, 05:34:56 PM
How to Pre-download the PS4 Patch (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2427080,00.asp)
I'll Probably go ahead and do this tonight.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 13, 2013, 06:09:37 PM
The UI on the PS4 looks very similar to Windows 8. It actually looks more cluttered to me.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 13, 2013, 08:37:15 PM
Dude on gaf is saying that media Molecule will be teaming up with quesay Games (sound shapes) on a new Parapa the Rapper game for Vita/PS4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 13, 2013, 09:01:12 PM
I'm taking the reviews released today with a grain of salt, considering I've had serious issues with the gaming media this year (and to a larger extent, this generation) when it comes to reviews. I've hated several games the gaming media practically lined up to give blow jobs to (Bioshock Infinite, GTA 5, etc.), and I've really liked several games the gaming media practically set out to hate since the moment they were announced (Lost Planet 3, most of the lineup on the Vita, Sly Cooper 4, etc.).
While I'm happy that Killzone: Shadow Fall is reviewing very well (along with Infamous: Second Son, it is the game I bought the PS4 for, after all), I've felt like the media has had it in for Knack since it was unveiled back in February (IMO, because it was a cartoony platformer/brawler intended to appeal to children rather than a "serious game"). While I never thought the game would be "amazing" or anything, it's always looked like a solid game that would hit somewhere in that 6.5-7.0 range with the potential for more based on individual tastes. I'm not surprised that's around where it hit, and as I've seen scores ranging from a 5.0 to a 7.0, I think it's fair to say the game has some redeeming value that perhaps could extend into an improved sequel later on. I already have my copy, and I think I'm probably going to enjoy it, but I can understand why others wouldn't. At the very least, it's a new IP in a genre that needs new IPs, and it's a nice companion piece to Killzone.
I am pleased to see that Contrast and Resogun seem to be reviewing well as well. Contrast in particular seems especially interesting to me, even if it really doesn't seem like a game that "needs" the power of the PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on November 13, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Modern Reviewers are mostly awful. I have little interest in Knack, but I want it to succeed just because I want to see more 3D platformers.
Knack for Battle Royale 2: The DOTA Clone?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 13, 2013, 10:46:40 PM
Knack looks really from the livestreams I've watched today.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ymeegod on November 14, 2013, 12:37:53 AM
I actually read the reviews and not just look at the score. There's some things I can forgive that others can't but going by what was said about the game; it's humorless without an a lot of banter between the characters, stale gameplay since it only has a 3-hit combo that you learn from the beginning of the game.
I was actually looking forward to Knack the most out of the next-gen launch titles but those are some glaring flaws IMO for the type of game I expected it to be.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 14, 2013, 01:37:23 AM
Knack looks really from the livestreams I've watched today.
It always looked mediocre from day one.
I also watched Killzone quick look yesterday. I literally fell asleep halfway through.
Yeah, I watched that Quick Look too and it was pretty terrible. It didn't help that the guy playing the game completely sucked at the game and wasn't even trying to really play with the game's features or level design, so he was constantly dying while trying to play extremely stupidly. He literally played the game the most boring way you could: get behind cover, send your OWL out to shoot a few times, & then run into gunfire. Considering how you can see the devs playing that same level in the PS4 reveal footage, the Giant Bomb crew definitely wasn't really trying with that game.
This is actually something I've had an issue with with the Giant Bomb guys for a while now with their Quick Looks. They're usually great, but sometimes (Silent Hill Downpour, Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse, Killzone: Shadow Fall, etc.) they're really terrible because A) the guy playing doesn't really give a **** And/Or B) the guy playing the game sucks at it, showing a level of incompetency I've never run into playing the game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: azeke on November 14, 2013, 03:52:53 AM
While GB in general and Gerstmann especially have definitely lost the spark of excitement gamers should have about games, i don't think it was their fault in this particular case.
It's just the game itself looks too sterile and by the books.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 14, 2013, 04:05:12 AM
While GB in general and Gerstmann especially have definitely lost the spark of excitement gamers should have about games, i don't think it was their fault in this particular case.
It's just the game itself looks too sterile and by the books.
That's the thing, though: just about every review I've seen of the game has praised the game's open level design & your freedom to pursue objectives and tactics however you want. Just looking at that first campaign scenario shown off the Quick Look, I would have sniped the Sniper on the wall, climbed the left wall, deployed my Owl to stun or distract the group of enemies below, and dive-bombed them behind. Maybe I'd just use the OWL's zip line function to drop on top of one of them for a quick kill. I generally played heavy stealth in Mercenaries earlier this year, so I favor alternative routes and misdirection when they're available.
So what do the Giant Bomb team do when they do a Quick Look? They run up the center of the level guns blazing and treat the game like a corridor shooter, and that's exactly the experience they got (dying several times quite stupidly, I might add). Maybe the game hadn't done a good job of conveying to them the level of freedom you have in approaching scenarios, or maybe they're just lazy and don't care "because it's Killzone". Either way, I just want to emphasize that you can make the most amazing game look utterly terrible if you really don't care to tap into the game's systems. As a fan of a certain cartoony brawler that puts heavy emphasis on not just "button mashing", I'd think you'd understand and appreciate the significance of how players choose to play a game. ;)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: azeke on November 14, 2013, 04:50:12 AM
I would have sniped the Sniper on the wall, climbed the left wall, deployed my Owl to stun or distract the group of enemies below, and dive-bombed them behind. Maybe I'd just use the OWL's zip line function to drop on top of one of them for a quick kill. I generally played heavy stealth in Mercenaries earlier this year, so I favor alternative routes and misdirection when they're available.
I am trying to understand how that makes it a better game and i fail at it.
Just yet another checkbox "provide some alternative routes" checked.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 14, 2013, 11:55:03 AM
I would have sniped the Sniper on the wall, climbed the left wall, deployed my Owl to stun or distract the group of enemies below, and dive-bombed them behind. Maybe I'd just use the OWL's zip line function to drop on top of one of them for a quick kill. I generally played heavy stealth in Mercenaries earlier this year, so I favor alternative routes and misdirection when they're available.
I am trying to understand how that makes it a better game and i fail at it.
Just yet another checkbox "provide some alternative routes" checked.
Yes, if you fail to understand how having alternative routes and a variety of tools to solve a scenario make a game better, then I can't help you there. Once again, I think if someone posted a video just mindlessly running in and hacking away at enemies in Wonderful 101, I think you'd take issue with someone calling the game "boring", too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: magicpixie on November 14, 2013, 04:10:58 PM
Is anybody picking up any of the f2p games on PS4? I know that War Thunder has crossplay multiplayer with the PC version, and I'm wondering if the other games are going to be the same.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: azeke on November 14, 2013, 08:59:14 PM
Once again, I think if someone posted a video just mindlessly running in and hacking away at enemies in Wonderful 101
that would be frustrating, but not boring.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 14, 2013, 11:12:12 PM
The Last of US DLC is early next year and its called Left Behind and is a Ellie based prequel.
Uncharted 4 announced for PS4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 15, 2013, 02:13:08 AM
Suffice it to say that I'm going to have quite the "launch night" story on the next NFR. The saga involved in replacing my PS4's HDD was quite...aggravating.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: UncleBob on November 15, 2013, 02:29:47 AM
PS4 launch officially a bust. We sold less pre-order systems than Wii U, sold less total systems than Wii U, did not have to turn anyone away like when Wii U launched and sold less games (in fact, the only games we sold was an up-res'd port of a current-gen game).
;)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 15, 2013, 03:11:59 AM
Well, the PSN launch on PS4 is officially a bust. The thing crashes more often right now than a PS3 trying to play Skyrim.
And I REALLY don't like how the PS4 hides your download history and makes it REALLY hard to find individual things you've purchased.
On the flipside, I REALLY like that the PS4 can download multiple files at once. ABOUT ****ING TIME, SONY!
One other thing, too: this UI is lightning fast. When I go to launch a game, I'm in the main menu within 1-2 seconds. It makes the Wii U's 12-15 seconds before loading into game look like even more of a joke. My big complaint about the UI is that there is no real way to organize anything. Seriously, what is with console manufacturers launching systems without folder support? The PS4 uses this increasingly long horizontal bar to show EVERY game you play or download all at once, and it gets longer with each game that's added. That's going to get incredibly unwieldy extremely quickly.
Update: OK, I like Sony, but the way they have the file management system setup on the PS4 is borderline shady. You don't have a download history anymore, and the PS4 does not report your downloads to the download history your PS3 or Vita can see. Instead, you have your "library", where everything you have downloaded or installed for a game is listed, but the UI is very vague about whether you have that currently installed or previously downloaded. The UI seems intentionally designed to hide information about what exactly you have on your HDD, actually. I know I downloaded updates, etc. for certain games, but it doesn't split that info up in the System menu.
Oh, and the PSN store still sucks ass, even if it does load extremely quickly now (and crash just as quickly). It's still a cluster**** to navigate.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 15, 2013, 10:10:44 AM
So your saying get a Wii U and save the PS4/Vita till next year?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 15, 2013, 10:39:01 AM
So your saying get a Wii U and save the PS4/Vita till next year?
Why would I recommend anyone buy a Wii U? ;) However, to your second question it's clear Sony brought the PS4 into this launch extremely hot. There are a LOT of UI adjustments to make, and yeah...for a lot of people, Infamous; The Order; and Uncharted 4 will be the games to own a PS4 for. I would probably recommend waiting unless you just like the "launch" experience.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 15, 2013, 10:55:21 AM
Still might grab one around Infamous time.
That Polygon Killzone review hurts my head. The main complaint from Mr.Gies is that everyone in the world is pretty shitty and the game isn't telling him to root for team america killing all the bad guys.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 15, 2013, 11:01:49 AM
That Polygon Killzone review hurts my head. The main complaint from Mr.Gies is that everyone in the world is pretty shitty and the game isn't telling him to root for team america killing all the bad guys.
The GameTrailers one hurt mine, where the big complaint was that Guerilla needed to stop putting political subplots and story into their Killzone games and focus on more and bigger guns, because that's what FPS games are supposed to be about! ::)
Sorry, but if I wanted that experience, I'd go lull myself to sleep by playing a Halo game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 15, 2013, 11:14:59 AM
Well, the PSN launch on PS4 is officially a bust. The thing crashes more often right now than a PS3 trying to play Skyrim.
And I REALLY don't like how the PS4 hides your download history and makes it REALLY hard to find individual things you've purchased.
On the flipside, I REALLY like that the PS4 can download multiple files at once. ABOUT ****ING TIME, SONY!
One other thing, too: this UI is lightning fast. When I go to launch a game, I'm in the main menu within 1-2 seconds. It makes the Wii U's 12-15 seconds before loading into game look like even more of a joke. My big complaint about the UI is that there is no real way to organize anything. Seriously, what is with console manufacturers launching systems without folder support? The PS4 uses this increasingly long horizontal bar to show EVERY game you play or download all at once, and it gets longer with each game that's added. That's going to get incredibly unwieldy extremely quickly.
Update: OK, I like Sony, but the way they have the file management system setup on the PS4 is borderline shady. You don't have a download history anymore, and the PS4 does not report your downloads to the download history your PS3 or Vita can see. Instead, you have your "library", where everything you have downloaded or installed for a game is listed, but the UI is very vague about whether you have that currently installed or previously downloaded. The UI seems intentionally designed to hide information about what exactly you have on your HDD, actually. I know I downloaded updates, etc. for certain games, but it doesn't split that info up in the System menu.
Oh, and the PSN store still sucks ass, even if it does load extremely quickly now (and crash just as quickly). It's still a cluster**** to navigate.
Is the Xbox 360 better at managing download history?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 15, 2013, 11:16:10 AM
That Polygon Killzone review hurts my head. The main complaint from Mr.Gies is that everyone in the world is pretty shitty and the game isn't telling him to root for team america killing all the bad guys.
The GameTrailers one hurt mine, where the big complaint was that Guerilla needed to stop putting political subplots and story into their Killzone games and focus on more and bigger guns, because that's what FPS games are supposed to be about! ::)
Sorry, but if I wanted that experience, I'd go lull myself to sleep by playing a Halo game.
See you make a good point, followed by massivly terrible one.
The Halo stories are nothing but political subplots.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 15, 2013, 11:22:49 AM
Knack looks really from the livestreams I've watched today.
Knack looks really WHAT!!??? c'mon tell us!! the suspense is killing me.
I was thinking of a way to describe. It looks dreamworks or a blue sky production if you know what I mean.
It looks like a PS3 game. Next-gen graphics my ass.
It really doesn't the character models look like PS3 ones, but Knack and the backgrounds are really impressive. But than again every first party Wii U game looks like a 360 game so there's that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: ShyGuy on November 15, 2013, 01:39:05 PM
Arthur Gies may be the worst person in the gaming press of the last 30 years.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Louieturkey on November 15, 2013, 02:42:16 PM
This is partly why I cancelled my preorder. I think I will wait for the first revision of the hardware at this point. Since I can just go to the store on my PC and get any free Plus games for the PS4 now and then dl them when I get the system, I'm good.
Though I just had a stupid experience. I was able to "purchase" Resogun with no problems. The order went through like they always do. But then I went to do it for Contrast and after adding it to my cart (with it saying it was free for plus), then clicking checkout (it still said free), then I said submit, it charged my the $14.99 for it. Unfortunately, it seems to be near impossible to get in touch with Sony help right now with everyone having problems with their PS4s, I think I'm going to have to wait to get it resolved.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 15, 2013, 03:24:23 PM
That Polygon Killzone review hurts my head. The main complaint from Mr.Gies is that everyone in the world is pretty shitty and the game isn't telling him to root for team america killing all the bad guys.
The GameTrailers one hurt mine, where the big complaint was that Guerilla needed to stop putting political subplots and story into their Killzone games and focus on more and bigger guns, because that's what FPS games are supposed to be about! ::)
Sorry, but if I wanted that experience, I'd go lull myself to sleep by playing a Halo game.
See you make a good point, followed by massivly terrible one.
The Halo stories are nothing but political subplots.
See, I wouldn't know that because the games themselves put me to sleep in record time with their monotonous gameplay and bullet sponge-y enemies, so I never get to that part of those games. Between playing the original; Reach; and Halo 4, I just do not understand the appeal of that franchise.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 15, 2013, 05:21:23 PM
I think I'm going to wait as well. Maybe until next E3. Will be picking up a Wii U though. (I'm saying this now but it probably won't stick)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: magicpixie on November 16, 2013, 02:26:20 AM
See, I wouldn't know that because the games themselves put me to sleep in record time with their monotonous gameplay and bullet sponge-y enemies, so I never get to that part of those games. Between playing the original; Reach; and Halo 4, I just do not understand the appeal of that franchise.
The big appeal for the Halo series to me was always the co-op campaign. Not enough games feature co-op these days, and the Halo series actually implements it really well.
And if you think the bullet-sponge enemies are bad, the Flood enemies are a million times worse. Fast-moving enemies + super-slow console controls = You're gonna have a bad day.
Anyway, if anybody took my advice about BF4 and waited, apparently the PS4 version is experiencing massive headaches along with the other versions. There are reports of the game crashing and corrupting the save/game files(some people had to reinstall the game). DICE are known for buggy releases, but this one seems to have really taken the cake. So, to reiterate: don't pick up Battlefield 4, don't buy Premium, and tell everyone you know that is thinking about picking it up. It's especially bad since DICE/EA have stated that PC patches will only be delivered when console patches go out, despite having no cert process to go through.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Ceric on November 16, 2013, 07:55:05 PM
So yeah... You'll hear about this more on NFR but,
Skylanders Swap Force on the PS4 looks pretty darn impressive. I had some techs at my house for 8 hours, also hear about on the next NFR, and they were pretty darn impressed with the visuals as well on their own just watching as they came through.
The UI clicks with me mostly also I find myself using Voice commands more often then you may think. Which makes my biggest complaint so far that Netflix isn't consider like a game and I can't just go Playstation Netflix and when the console is on standby I can't just go Playstation On. You can turn the Playstation off with your voice.
I have sneaking suspicion that I'm going to have to give my son a PSN account.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 17, 2013, 06:16:38 AM
How is the motion keyboard thingy. .
Either way glad I'm not getting any console at launch. Pretty sUre the Xbox One will have just as many online problems as the PS4 has for online.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: broodwars on November 17, 2013, 06:57:34 AM
All I have to say about the so-called PS4 "Blue Pulse of Death" is that I hope those affected by it get working units soon and I'm glad my PS4 is not one of them.
In happier news, Sony sold over 1 million PS4s on launch day (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/17/playstation-4-sales-pass-1-million-in-north-america), selling over 2 times more PS4s in a single day than Nintendo sold Wii Us in the 1st 9 months of the year. If the Xbone sells similarly, you can probably stick a fork in the Wii U's chances of getting any software support beyond 1st party next year.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 17, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
Xbone won't though. It might sell a bunch at launch, but it's gonna be the PS3 of this generation for the first year or so, where you'll see people in line at Wal-Mart returning the unopened Xbones that they hoped to sell on eBay.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Adrock on November 17, 2013, 10:20:40 AM
If the Xbone sells similarly, you can probably stick a fork in the Wii U's chances of getting any software support beyond 1st party next year.
You can probably do that anyway.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: shingi_70 on November 17, 2013, 10:42:36 AM
Honestly makes me want to get a PS4 ASAP to play with others, but I think I can wait to Infamous seeing a =s most of the hardware kinks should be fixed be than.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 17, 2013, 10:45:23 AM
It took Microsoft and SONY 3 years to fix their hardware "kinks" last time. Having said that, I think SONY at least learned a lot from their past hardware mistakes. Yes there have been a couple of issues with launch consoles, but not Yellow Light of Death - type issues. Then again it's only been 3 days.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: Shaymin on November 17, 2013, 12:34:46 PM
The YLOD only broke a few years after the system launched, though. It's almost like it was a signal sent from Sony to kill all back-compat PS3s and make people buy Slims.
Seemed to work, too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 17, 2013, 01:19:57 PM
The YLOD broke millions of consoles shortly after launch and continues to break them. There was a report on the BBC within a few weeks of the launch I believe - wasn't as big of a deal in the US because the PS3 did not sell very well for a couple years here.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on November 17, 2013, 01:30:30 PM
There has been a few people online claiming that Foxconn workers have been purposefully sabotaging console as a form of protest.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 17, 2013, 02:12:50 PM
Sounds interesting and seems to be spreading around the internet...but I doubt it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - (Pics inside)
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 17, 2013, 03:11:55 PM
PS4 launch officially a bust. We sold less pre-order systems than Wii U, sold less total systems than Wii U, did not have to turn anyone away like when Wii U launched and sold less games (in fact, the only games we sold was an up-res'd port of a current-gen game).
;)
You do realize that Sony has sold over 1 million PS4's so far right? How will the Xbox One sell any better at $500? Back in my day game systems sold for $200 - $300, and we were fine with that.
Besides, if launch sales mattered so much, then the PS3 would have been discontinued years ago .
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: UncleBob on November 17, 2013, 03:50:29 PM
YOU realize that: A.) I was being sarcastic (about the "bust" part... the observations were true). B.) The "one million" news came long after I posted that comment. C.) The "one million" is completely unconfirmed. D.) I really don't care much one way or the other.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 17, 2013, 07:12:49 PM
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on November 17, 2013, 10:59:49 PM
So I watched the Giant Bomb Quick Look for Knack and Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy it is NOT.
It seems like a pretty simple brawler with very minor platforming elements. Virtually no exploration, jumping puzzles, or advanced combat. The graphics look good -about Wii U level ;) But nothing spectacular save the knack pieces casting shadows and the bushes swaying in the breeze.
It's a bummer, I want to see more variety in genres. Anyone played it?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: UncleBob on November 17, 2013, 11:48:12 PM
So I watched the Giant Bomb Quick Look for Knack and Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy it is NOT.
It seems like a pretty simple brawler with very minor platforming elements. Virtually no exploration, jumping puzzles, or advanced combat. The graphics look good -about Wii U level ;) But nothing spectacular save the knack pieces casting shadows and the bushes swaying in the breeze.
It's a bummer, I want to see more variety in genres. Anyone played it?
Broodwars has.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on November 18, 2013, 11:20:48 AM
Isn't there going to be a ps4 centic nintendo free radio?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on November 18, 2013, 12:35:57 PM
Isn't there going to be a ps4 centic nintendo free radio?
Yep, Recorded it last night and man is their a story to it in the end. The editing is going to be a lot of work due to external factors. (Namely my Primary Internet being out and 3 flies.)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on November 18, 2013, 02:24:22 PM
I have to say the one launch game that probably has me most excited is Super Motherload. Really hoping that one goes to other systems.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on November 18, 2013, 02:41:30 PM
Isn't there going to be a ps4 centic nintendo free radio?
Yep, Recorded it last night and man is their a story to it in the end. The editing is going to be a lot of work due to external factors. (Namely my Primary Internet being out and 3 flies.)
Yeah, it's a good episode with some good stories to it (I think it's one of our livelier episodes, actually), but yeah...I don't envy the nightmare of an editing job Shaymin will have to do on it due to the technical issues.
Title: The "Brack Friday Bunduru" is real?!
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 22, 2013, 12:25:39 PM
Sony just announced a PS4 + PS Vita bundle for the UK! This is exactly what they need to push the Vita and its Remote Play functionality. Hopefully this bundle comes to other countries as well (US, Japan, the rest of Europe).
I guess the reporter on South Park was right about the "Brack Friday Bunduru"... Season 17 is so good, much better than season's 16 and 15.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 22, 2013, 12:31:14 PM
I almost cried when I watched that episode.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 22, 2013, 12:33:13 PM
I don't know what went wrong with seasons 16 and 15, but season 17 is a huge improvement. It reminds me of seasons 9 and 10, which were arguably the best seasons of the show's history.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MagicCow64 on November 22, 2013, 03:37:44 PM
I don't know what went wrong with seasons 16 and 15
The Book of Mormon
That's not related to South Park though... I don't get it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 22, 2013, 06:33:00 PM
Trey Parker and Matt Stone aren't related to South Park?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: magicpixie on November 22, 2013, 06:34:35 PM
Probably put all their effort into getting that show up and running.
In related news, I've heard that 64-player Conquest mode is up and running on PS4(same day as the Xbone is released, coincidence?), though the game still crashes occasionally. There will be another patch coming next week; maybe the problems are starting to get fixed.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 22, 2013, 10:21:50 PM
Trey Parker and Matt Stone aren't related to South Park?
Oh you're talking about that play they just finished making.
The Last two seasons of south Park really suffered from the fact that around the same time Matt and Trey decided to go all in with two big undertackings with The Book of Morman and The Stick of Truth.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 24, 2013, 08:23:00 PM
BTW, I compared them today, PS4 is actually smaller than the PS3 Slim.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 24, 2013, 08:25:16 PM
BTW, I compared them today, PS4 is actually smaller than the PS3 Slim.
That's pretty impressive. I'm going to have the money for one on the first of the month, but I'm worried I won't be able to find one. They'll likely restock before Black Friday, but I think those could be gone, even just a couple days later.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 28, 2013, 12:09:19 AM
I'm worried that the Vita Remote Play isn't going to work for me. I've seen mostly, but not exclusively, positive reports, but this feature is a huge deal to me. It's the biggest reason I want the system right now, and I'd be incredibly disappointed if I couldn't use it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 29, 2013, 09:39:52 PM
If anybody knows of a place online that has PS4s in stock for non-ludicrous prices I'd appreciate if you let me know. I've got the money, I'm ready to buy one, but I just can't find one.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on November 30, 2013, 06:23:17 PM
If anybody knows of a place online that has PS4s in stock for non-ludicrous prices I'd appreciate if you let me know. I've got the money, I'm ready to buy one, but I just can't find one.
Try Amazon or Walmart.com
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on November 30, 2013, 11:48:57 PM
Seems like your going to wait till the beginning of next year to get one.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 01, 2013, 03:43:02 AM
If anybody knows of a place online that has PS4s in stock for non-ludicrous prices I'd appreciate if you let me know. I've got the money, I'm ready to buy one, but I just can't find one.
Try Amazon or Walmart.com
Those were respectively the first and third places I looked. I also checked BestBuy.com and Newegg. I posted that because none of them had any in stock. I wasn't requesting suggestions of where to check, I wanted to know if someone had seen an outlet that did have stock.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on December 01, 2013, 12:42:09 PM
Why didn't you go to a place on black friday? Almost everybody had stock for black friday, you just had to get in line. Hell, the walmart I went to Thursday night didn't have more than 5 people in line for the PS4. You have chosen literally the worst time to buy one since there probably won't be reliable stock until Christmas now.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 01, 2013, 01:36:10 PM
Try Best Buy today. Call your local store, if they transfer you to another store ask about your local store. That's how I got mine - they will be listed as out of stock with no store pickup online even if they are in stock locally.
And if it's like my local store they will be at the online pickup line locked up and not on the sales floor.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on December 02, 2013, 11:22:16 AM
I was trying the PS4 at Best Buy, and that touchpad is really flimsy. It already felt a bit loose.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on December 02, 2013, 12:31:53 PM
I was trying the PS4 at Best Buy, and that touchpad is really flimsy. It already felt a bit loose.
With how much retail demo displays are abused, I'd be surprised if it wasn't missing a joystick and had soda residue all over it. I'd never take away any opinion of a controller in-store unless it was one that the employee had behind a counter.
Can anyone speak to how instantaneous the share button is? Is it a feature you find yourself using?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 02, 2013, 12:46:59 PM
You realize it's a clickable touchpad, right? It's supposed to be "loose" because it's also a button.
The share button is instant. Multitasking on PS4 is instant, period.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on December 02, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
I was trying the PS4 at Best Buy, and that touchpad is really flimsy. It already felt a bit loose.
It's a button, bro.
I just bought the controller for my PS3 and PC and it's freaking amazing.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on December 02, 2013, 08:44:51 PM
Wait, you can officially use the PS4 controller on a PC? Can you do the same with the Xbox One controller?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on December 02, 2013, 08:52:47 PM
Not officially but most games and steam has button layout control. Xbox One will be getting official PC controller support next year (probably apart of Windows 8.2) but there are some PC hacks out there.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 02, 2013, 09:03:22 PM
Once the Xbox One controls drivers are working for the PC and MAC. I am buying one. That controller looks amazing, even if you don't get all the functions. It looks like a well crafted controller for gaming.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Kytim89 on December 02, 2013, 10:29:36 PM
I had some hands on time with the PS4 controller today at Gamestop and I must say it is a dratic improvement over the Dualshock 3. In fact, the Dualshock 3 needs to be destroyed and forgotten. Although the PS4 controller will be better than anything created by Nintendo.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on December 03, 2013, 12:09:03 AM
Wait, you can officially use the PS4 controller on a PC? Can you do the same with the Xbox One controller?
It uses an older driver that not all modern games support, but yes. But I was able to more easily spoof the DS4 to think it's a 360 controller than I ever have before. It took me about a minute to search, find, and download a program simple enough to make it work.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on December 03, 2013, 07:30:15 AM
I had some hands on time with the PS4 controller today at Gamestop and I must say it is a dratic improvement over the Dualshock 3. In fact, the Dualshock 3 needs to be destroyed and forgotten.
I'm amazed at the excessive hate the Dualshock 3 gets. Other than the R2 & L2 buttons, I have no problems whatsoever with the Dualshock 3, and frankly find it maybe one of the most comfortable controllers to play with.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Kytim89 on December 03, 2013, 05:02:58 PM
Although the PS4 controller will be better than anything created by Nintendo.
Ew, no. I still prefer the Wii U Pro Controller over the Dual Shock 4. I haven't tried a One controller yet.
That was a typo on my part. I meant to say that the PS4 controller will never be as good as anything made by Nintendo.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 03, 2013, 06:38:15 PM
I can't figure out how to comfortably hold a PS3 controller with access to the triggers with my hands. The controller is just too small, and doesn't have any natural place to rest in my hands.
I always cramp playing with the PS3 controller. That has never happened to me with a Nintendo controller...so there is that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on December 03, 2013, 09:10:07 PM
I can't figure out how to comfortably hold a PS3 controller with access to the triggers with my hands. The controller is just too small, and doesn't have any natural place to rest in my hands.
I always cramp playing with the PS3 controller. That has never happened to me with a Nintendo controller...so there is that.
I can't figure out how to comfortably hold a PS3 controller with access to the triggers with my hands. The controller is just too small, and doesn't have any natural place to rest in my hands.
I always cramp playing with the PS3 controller. That has never happened to me with a Nintendo controller...so there is that.
But the double finger trigger hold is so.... unnatural and uncomfortable. I always end up switching 1 finger back and forth between trigger 1 to trigger 2.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 03, 2013, 09:32:58 PM
I have held it both ways. Pushing the Triggers is very uncomfortable for me. I wish this wasn't the case. Right now I think Nintendo has the best controller. I wish you could get a Nintendo classic Controller Pro to work on the PC and MAC. Or the new Wii U classic controller. I would buy and use that in a heart beat.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 03, 2013, 10:07:55 PM
DS4 > Wii U Pro Controller.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 03, 2013, 11:35:29 PM
I will not oppose other people's opinions. I just find the controller uncomfortable to use, and the button names confusing. But, if you like the controller, more power to you.
I really want to hold the Xbox One controller and see if it is good.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Sarail on December 04, 2013, 12:48:11 AM
I have held it both ways. Pushing the Triggers is very uncomfortable for me. I wish this wasn't the case. Right now I think Nintendo has the best controller. I wish you could get a Nintendo classic Controller Pro to work on the PC and MAC. Or the new Wii U classic controller. I would buy and use that in a heart beat.
Spak, you can! (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E6553PW/) I use my Wii U Pro for PC gaming on Steam and for FFXIV 2.0. It works wonderfully well!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 04, 2013, 02:17:17 AM
Thanks. After I posted that I realized I was a lazy net surfer, and started looking. I have to look around for something to work with Apple, but I will definitely do this in the future. I am going to get a new laptop in the near future, if finances hold out, and then I can get some nice computer gaming happening. I always hated computer gaming because I love playing games with a controller.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 04, 2013, 04:52:32 AM
You can use the various Wii controllers and the Wii U Pro controller with a Mac pretty easily. They're Bluetooth, and there are fan-made drivers that work pretty well in my experience.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on December 04, 2013, 09:28:40 AM
I can't figure out how to comfortably hold a PS3 controller with access to the triggers with my hands. The controller is just too small, and doesn't have any natural place to rest in my hands.
I always cramp playing with the PS3 controller. That has never happened to me with a Nintendo controller...so there is that.
But the double finger trigger hold is so.... unnatural and uncomfortable. I always end up switching 1 finger back and forth between trigger 1 to trigger 2.
Really? I just naturally went to it because of the NES Days and the Max controller where I held it up with me top fingers.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on December 05, 2013, 12:59:41 AM
Have you guys seen how you're supposed to hold the Xbox one controller triggers and bumpers? The bumpers push in so you hold your fingers diagonal so it crosses over both. I haven't held one yet, but weird...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on December 09, 2013, 11:40:59 PM
Uh no, you just alternate your fingers between the bumpers and triggers, just like on a PlayStation controller.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 12, 2013, 07:48:10 PM
My PS4 arrived today. I haven't gotten to actually play anything on it yet because things are taking a while to download, but I was able to test out remote play in the menus and it seems to work well everywhere in the house I'd want it to. I really like the feel of the Dual Shock 4, and as someone who couldn't stand the previous models I think the changes were subtle yet very effective.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 12, 2013, 09:44:38 PM
Yeah, tomorrow is my last day of school for the semester so I literally haven't had a chance to play mine since the weekend I bought it. My kids were watching a movie on it and left it on, so I picked up the controller to shut it off and forgot how much of an improvement over the DS3 it is.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 12, 2013, 09:46:00 PM
BTW - brandogg360 on PSN. Haven't activated my PS Plus 7-day trial (came with BF4) or my 30-day trial (came with the system) or my 1-year subscription ($29.99 on Black Friday woohoo) but I will be tomorrow night.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on December 13, 2013, 09:22:21 AM
BTW - brandogg360 on PSN. Haven't activated my PS Plus 7-day trial (came with BF4) or my 30-day trial (came with the system) or my 1-year subscription ($29.99 on Black Friday woohoo) but I will be tomorrow night.
Do the Trails first.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 16, 2013, 08:20:40 AM
I've played a fair bit of FIFA via remote play now, and have had almost no issues with it. I lost connection once or twice, but like with the Wii U Off-TV play it automatically pauses the game and lets me pick off right where I left off once I reconnect.
As for the game itself, the graphical improvements are nice, but largely irrelevant with the normal zoomed-out camera, but the increased horsepower makes the menus a lot less sluggish than they were in the PS3 version. All in all, I'm very happy with my purchase so far.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 16, 2013, 10:59:25 PM
Posted this in the Xbone thread, but it should be here too I guess...
Xbox One is the new PS3?
Not sure how these links will work for you guys
PS3 = out of stock online (including all bundles) and at every store locally http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-ps4-500gb-console/8240103.p?id=1218866963585&skuId=8240103&cmp=RMX&ky=28oPyDFv0KHcisHwQcZfO0qg5PUU1VPjs (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-ps4-500gb-console/8240103.p?id=1218866963585&skuId=8240103&cmp=RMX&ky=28oPyDFv0KHcisHwQcZfO0qg5PUU1VPjs)
Xbox One = in stock online (system by itself and all bundles) and at every store within 100 miles http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemplatemapper.jsp?id=pcat17006&type=page&sourceId=1219013502542&sourceType=product&skuId=9008182&productId=1219013502542&itemId=2051276&pageMode=searchmode (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemplatemapper.jsp?id=pcat17006&type=page&sourceId=1219013502542&sourceType=product&skuId=9008182&productId=1219013502542&itemId=2051276&pageMode=searchmode)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on December 17, 2013, 10:12:43 PM
So... One of my DualShock 4's won't charge, won't hold a charge, and won't stay on even plugged in. I'm going to have to contact Sony customer support to figure out what to do. I don't know if I can just go to the store and exchange it for a new one. We'll have to see but in all my years of gaming I have never had this happen with one of my controllers.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 17, 2013, 10:29:13 PM
I imagine it would be as simple as that...most stores have a 90 day return policy now, or at least the decent ones do.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on December 18, 2013, 01:05:24 AM
Anyone play doki doki universe yet?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on December 18, 2013, 02:40:25 AM
I downloaded Pinball Arcade PS4 tonight, along with all the Season 1 tables since they were being offered for $15 to people who already paid them for all those tables on PS3 & Vita. To say this game's presentation on PS4 is "amateurish" is the understatement of the year. The splash screen that displays while the game is loading is in 4:3, the main menu itself can only be controlled by the Dpad, and you can't download all the DLC tables at once. No, instead, you have to download each one individually by trying to play them, wait for them to download, and THEN you can play them. The table I played also had glitched Goal unlocking.
And don't even bother trying to Remote Play the game. It runs at like 10 frames per second and has massive input lag. ****ing Amateur Hour. My Vita can handle ****ing ASSASSIN'S CREED 4 and speedy games like Resogun like a Pro, but Pinball? Man, that's just too much!
That said, once I got past the nonsense required to actually get to a table, I found the game to be an excellent upgrade from the Vita version I usually play, though you really need to turn off the in-game lights to see it. The Dualshock 4 is an excellent controller for this game, probably even surpassing the Vita's responsiveness.
Incidentally, Twilight Zone is still an incredibly cheap table. No wonder it gets used for tournaments! It goes out of its way to be a colossal **** to the player!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 20, 2013, 11:37:44 PM
If you're looking for one they're currently in stock at Amazon.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 24, 2013, 01:29:05 AM
I was just at Walmart (god I hate Walmart, sorry, UB) - PS4 sold out, plenty of Xbox Ones in stock, but amazingly they were actually sold out of Wii U consoles too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on December 24, 2013, 09:32:22 AM
I was just at Walmart (god I hate Walmart, sorry, UB) - PS4 sold out, plenty of Xbox Ones in stock, but amazingly they were actually sold out of Wii U consoles too.
Honestly I don't know if I could Recommend the PS4 or the XBox One for under M gameplayers really yet.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 24, 2013, 10:36:40 PM
I never thought of or realized this, but while PS Plus is required for online multiplayer on PS4 - only the primary account needs to be a PS Plus member, and then all other users can play online as well, unlike Xbox 360/Xbox One where ever account needs to have it's own $60/yr subscription. Another thing to consider when making a decision between the two.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on December 26, 2013, 02:13:27 AM
Another plus for Sony, they really seem to know what they're doing this gen. Focusing on games instead of being an "all-in-one" entertainment box. It's like they're going back to their roots.
Will this new "pay to play online" feature be applicable to PS3 and Vita as well?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on December 29, 2013, 02:35:10 AM
Nope. Vita and PS3 will stay free. If they ever changed that there would probably be riots in the streets. The Vita successor, however? I have no doubt in my mind.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ymeegod on December 29, 2013, 06:31:12 AM
Actually Brandogg--that's only true for the 360--the Xbox 1 has sub-accounts just like Sony which means only one primary account needs live so the others can play online and with their own gametags.
MS changed it's policy early this year (march?) when it canceled the family plan.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 29, 2013, 10:40:19 AM
To quote Wayne Campbell, "I was not aware of that." Well that's a draw then.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 29, 2013, 03:04:06 PM
I have to say I'm a really big fan of the Dual Shock 4, and I hated all the older models. It didn't change all that much, but what what they did do made all the difference in the world to me.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: RedBlue on December 29, 2013, 11:08:42 PM
I have to say I'm a really big fan of the Dual Shock 4, and I hated all the older models. It didn't change all that much, but what what they did do made all the difference in the world to me.
I agree with this. The older ones always made my hands cramp up. This one so much nicer.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 07, 2014, 03:45:07 PM
PS4 is dominating. 4.2 million consoles sold... http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/playstation-4-4.2-million/ (http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/playstation-4-4.2-million/)
...beating Xbox One by over 1 million consoles http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/xbox-one-3-million/ (http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/06/xbox-one-3-million/)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MysticGohan on February 01, 2014, 04:24:53 PM
Woot! anything else going on the PS4 front? Also guys can add me Jace2279 I love to play with some NWR friends, right Khush, BnM? ;)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 01, 2014, 05:13:33 PM
I only own a Wii U, and I use it mostly for Netflix.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on February 01, 2014, 05:26:19 PM
Ironically the Dualshock 4 makes my hands cramp in only like five minutes. I must have tiny hands.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MysticGohan on February 01, 2014, 06:17:29 PM
I have a Wii U, do you play black ops 2 or Ghost?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on February 01, 2014, 06:54:02 PM
I play Black Ops 2 quite a bit.
...oh wait, you were talking to BnM. :P
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MysticGohan on February 01, 2014, 09:14:32 PM
you too lol
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 01, 2014, 09:28:22 PM
I play Netflix.
and not even under my account most of the time. Man they need to update that Netflix app to use profiles and have continuous play.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MysticGohan on February 01, 2014, 10:55:00 PM
that they do, why it's taking so long is beyond me!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: kraken613 on February 05, 2014, 09:09:28 PM
Hey guys. I got a PS4 and would love to add you guys as friends. Is there a thread for NWR people with PS4's?
PSN ID: kraken613
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 05, 2014, 09:46:56 PM
brandogg360 and yes somewhere.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 04, 2014, 09:31:53 PM
And PS4 is past 6 million console sales (and well beyond their goal of 5 million by the end of March).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on March 14, 2014, 12:54:19 PM
I like my Xbox One, but I love how quick and clean the PS4's UI is (the Xbox One's UI is a bit clunky in comparison). I love how both consoles can record and broadcast gameplay, and it all seems more intuitive on PS4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on March 14, 2014, 12:57:47 PM
My big problem with the UI on the PS4 is 3 things.
1. Games automatically go to the bar and you can't put them in Folders. 2. Video Content provider Automatically go to a Folder and you can't put them on the Bar. 3. I can't say Playstation > Netflix because its not an item on the Bar. You can't go Playstation > (whatever that category is that Netflix is in) > Netflix either.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on March 19, 2014, 11:05:23 AM
Hopefully Sony updates their voice commands soon. They also need to add MP3 playback and external hard drive support. I still can't believe that Nintendo is the only one that lets us use external hard drives for game installs. It's an even bigger issue for Xbox One because it doesn't have a removable hard drive. Installing games to an external hard drive should be very easy to implement; all Microsoft has to do is format the hard drive to the console.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on March 19, 2014, 11:14:17 AM
Also, I'm very surprised that the PS4 is so small and compact. With all that powerful hardware, you'd expect it to be put in a bigger box with plenty of ventilation. The Xbox One is in a big box with plenty of airflow, tons of vents, and a huge fan to prevent overheating. Smart move by Microsoft.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on March 31, 2014, 02:12:27 AM
Got my system last Thursday. (http://i.imgur.com/SVgJwoW.jpg)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on March 31, 2014, 09:58:03 AM
Grats.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Louieturkey on April 21, 2014, 06:47:15 PM
PS4 has now outsold the lifetime sales of the Wii U. That certainly didn't take long.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on April 24, 2014, 02:51:06 PM
Sony has the advantage over Microsoft because they let users easily replace the hard drives in the PS3 and PS4, while Microsoft forces users to buy a proprietary hard drive that only works with the Xbox 360.
But then Sony had to **** all that up by using proprietary memory cards in the Vita, when they could have easily used normal SD cards like Nintendo and the rest of the mobile industry.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on April 24, 2014, 03:40:37 PM
Was looking at the release list for PS4 from Gamestop and I can't say I'm excited for anything on it now.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on April 24, 2014, 08:36:57 PM
Sony has the advantage over Microsoft because they let users easily replace the hard drives in the PS3 and PS4, while Microsoft forces users to buy a proprietary hard drive that only works with the Xbox 360.
But then Sony had to **** all that up by using proprietary memory cards in the Vita, when they could have easily used normal SD cards like Nintendo and the rest of the mobile industry.
No it's not out of character for Sony, they don't use SD cards in any of their stuff it's always proprietary that is a big part of their business. The original PSP didn't use SD cards either.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: azeke on April 24, 2014, 11:43:38 PM
No it's not out of character for Sony, they don't use SD cards in any of their stuff it's always proprietary that is a big part of their business. The original PSP didn't use SD cards either.
Sony using proprietary formats is my number 1 reason why i always try to avoid their products. I had a VERY bad experience with their video camera, where i couldn't extract any footage from because it used their own format.
Same with Walkmans and their audio ATRAC format. There are HUNDREDS of closed formats that Sony tried to push into common use.
Hate this policy.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Mythtendo on April 25, 2014, 04:07:54 PM
Me too, Sony is so stubborn. Pretty much every product uses SD cards, but Sony is greedy and wants to try to milk even more money from consumers. Like with the PSP, why should I have to pay for their overpriced Memory Stick Pro Duos that no one but Sony uses when I can get a SD card for a fraction of the price?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on April 25, 2014, 08:18:54 PM
Was looking at the release list for PS4 from Gamestop and I can't say I'm excited for anything on it now.
Have to agree. Most of my gaming time for my PS4 has been on games I got on PS+, which out of those Resogun has been dominating my time. The other PS+ offerings for PS4 (Contrast, Don't Starve, Outlast, Dead Nation, Mercenary Kings) don't exactly leap out as compelling games, but they at least provide a library to spend time dabbling in.
I'm looking forward to Destiny later this year, but other than that, I'm planning on it being there primarily for my 3rd party gaming machine until Sony starts churning more games besides inFamous (which was a bit too thin, unfortunately) that i'm interested in.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on April 28, 2014, 11:16:16 AM
This weekend I was lamenting that the PS4 didn't have BC because I wanted to play a game on my Vita...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on April 28, 2014, 12:31:47 PM
Me too, Sony is so stubborn. Pretty much every product uses SD cards, but Sony is greedy and wants to try to milk even more money from consumers. Like with the PSP, why should I have to pay for their overpriced Memory Stick Pro Duos that no one but Sony uses when I can get a SD card for a fraction of the price?
This seems to no longer be the case. I have a Sony camcorder that has no MS Pro Duo slot and does have a spot for SD cards.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 28, 2014, 06:08:14 PM
Sony has moved to more standardized formats with their cameras. Most likely because they have to compete with a larger market…and consumer friendly storage is a selling point.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Kytim89 on April 29, 2014, 12:58:28 AM
Sony has moved to more standardized formats with their cameras. Most likely because they have to compete with a larger market…and consumer friendly storage is a selling point.
Why have they not translated this logic into their handhelds? The lack of SD card support is the big reason as to why the Vita ultimately failed. They do make Sony branded SD cards, so why are they not usable in the Vita? They charge for their own memory cards to get back some of the money it takes to produce the OLED screen for the Vita, but then again the Vita 2000 should have an SD card slot. I would buy three 32 GB SD cards for the price of their one 32 GB proprietary cards.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 29, 2014, 03:13:04 AM
Because it is a different division...and they think they can make extra profits with memory cards. Same reason why every console creates a new controller.
Also, professional business is quite different than entertainment business.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 29, 2014, 03:30:42 AM
Sony doesn't have to directly compete with other manufacturers selling Vitas with SD card slots. Proprietary memory cards are a lot easier to sell for proprietary hardware.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on May 10, 2014, 10:17:20 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Db2AETr.jpg)
Picked MLB today and Knack should be coming in the mail monday
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on May 31, 2014, 11:51:56 AM
I was at Walmart and they had plenty in stock so I am assuming the shortages are over. I also saw several copies of Watch Dogs, I guess I wasn't paying attention I thought it came out next month so I will have to pick it up next week. I decided to hold off on getting any new console for the time being, starting a new job that requires my vehicle to be in top shape so I might need to set some money back for that just in case.
I do have one question, does anyone know when PS Now is supposed to be launching and/or is there a thread for PS Now yet because if not I would like to start one but I am not sure because it seems all things PS4 are buried in this monster thread.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: mysticgohan on June 03, 2014, 06:18:53 AM
It's supposed to launch sometime in the summer I have the beta for ps4, it works pretty well, but there's only 20 games on beta and none are popular games or anything noteworthy.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: tendoboy1984 on June 03, 2014, 10:23:18 PM
Sony doesn't have to directly compete with other manufacturers selling Vitas with SD card slots. Proprietary memory cards are a lot easier to sell for proprietary hardware.
Yet PS4 and Wii U use normal hard drives, and 3DS uses normal SD cards. Those devices are still proprietary.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 05:29:15 AM
Sony doesn't have to directly compete with other manufacturers selling Vitas with SD card slots. Proprietary memory cards are a lot easier to sell for proprietary hardware.
Yet PS4 and Wii U use normal hard drives, and 3DS uses normal SD cards. Those devices are still proprietary.
The fact that they can get away with doing it that way doesn't mean that everyone necessarily will.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on June 04, 2014, 08:07:03 AM
Sony doesn't have to directly compete with other manufacturers selling Vitas with SD card slots. Proprietary memory cards are a lot easier to sell for proprietary hardware.
Yet PS4 and Wii U use normal hard drives, and 3DS uses normal SD cards. Those devices are still proprietary.
The PS4 and Wii U both compete with other devices in the same hardware class, I think it was mentioned Vita does not. Also until recently game consoles did use proprietary memory cards so that is not nothing new. Plus hard drives have been around much longer than memory cards, they have been more or less standard in their current form since the friggin 80's memory cards only became somewhat sorta standard but not really recently. SD is still not the fucking standard anyways, some cameras and devices use micro SD or even XD and for a time there were plenty of other options. Also have you ever heard of APPLE **** they don't support anything "industry standard" why do they get a free pass but Sony gets ****?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 08:15:33 AM
Microsoft required proprietary hard drives on the Xbox 360. There were ways around that, but they voided your warranty.
There are a couple different reasons why Sony might want to go with a proprietary solution with the Vita and not the PS4. Accessories tend to be designed to have a much higher profit margin than most other gaming-related products, which would be good for Sony to recoup some of the significant loss they were likely taking early on with the Vita and also as an incentive for retailers to actually carry a device Sony likely knew would probably be fairly niche and would have a high number of users that wouldn't actually buy physical games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2014, 09:59:38 AM
Sony is the KING of failed proprietary storage formats. They used to think the Sony brand was so hot that you would buy into whatever storage format their hardware decided to support this decade.
The thing is that SD has won the war, but there are far too many other companies still holding onto smaller formats just because. The Vita would probably be doing better right now if Sony wasn't trying to rape it's customer base with proprietary SD cards that cost twice as much as SD cards. When tons of people have SD cards laying around from previous devices that they don't use anymore, no one wants to buy an expensive new format that they can only use on this one device, that has the same amount of space as the SD card you have laying around for 2 years now that you bought for $25. (and the reasoning that Insano gave regarding retailers)
Apple gets away with it because Apple is a tech culture that constrains you into their ecosystem where the storage that it comes with is all you get. You want more, upgrade, or put it in the cloud. It's the apple way, and apple users just accept that for what it is, because they love Apple.
The reason that consoles until recently (6 years?) used proprietary mem cards was that profit margins were higher, HDD's & storage was expensive, there was no standard storage format that everyone already had laying around, and proprietary meant that you could only use it with that hardware (no hacking by the average consumer). Since the boom of Android, everyone and their mother has an SD card or two around the house. it makes $19.99 for some mem card that hold 30 saves seem quite expensive by comparison, especially if I can just use the one in my phone, that I've also used in my camera and my computer.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 11:05:31 AM
To be fair, if you look at any recent MacBook, they have SD card ports on them. Apple supports industry standards in a lot of ways; they may not put them on their phones, but neither do most Android manufacturers anymore.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 04, 2014, 11:11:54 AM
Apple has the habit historically of just backing the wrong standard.
SuperDisk Firewire etc.
All awesome standards in there own way but never got widely accepted as others.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 11:25:01 AM
Apple also went all-in on USB way before anyone else, before it really made sense to (pre-USB 2.0).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 04, 2014, 11:33:28 AM
Apple also went all-in on USB way before anyone else, before it really made sense to (pre-USB 2.0).
*Shrug* When I was in High School you could buy what was known as a "Legacy Free" PC. Pretty much it only had USB ports. Ditched the PS2 ports. That was late 90's. Some a little later went as far as ditching VGA as well, 2000's. Though that was also the time where there PCI Board still chips too.
I'm surprised to find that DVI can only drive 1920x1200 with a single cable.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 12:05:01 PM
Apple's USB jump began with the original iMac, which came out in 1998, replacing their old proprietary ADB ports.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: oohhboy on June 04, 2014, 01:39:26 PM
ADB were like baby USB ports, so USB for Apple was a no Brainer. USB 1.0 was slow, but the universal part of it was a real break through. I hate to think what it would be like to be still using COM, Serial, Parallel ports, slow, huge, tempermental.
VGA is great in that it's hard to **** it up. It's a great fallback if all the fancy digital video ports throw a **** fit (Thanks HDCP!). But DVI has a VGA fall back Apple didn't completely abandon it. DVI is constrained by the physical medium (copper) is based on. You just can't push any more bandwidth over it if you want some useable length.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 01:42:58 PM
The one nice thing about ADB, though, was you could chain it. With USB you need hubs and whatnot to increase how many things you can connect at once. I don't have a Mac new enough to use their new Thunderbolt thing but I like that that brings that back.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: oohhboy on June 04, 2014, 01:51:49 PM
You can sort of chain USB if each device in the chain was it's own hub like Apple keyboards, but devices like that are so rare the idea of chaining them is virtually foreign to USB.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 04, 2014, 02:05:29 PM
Which leads us to one of the key differences between USB and Firewire. Firewire every port gives you full speed but, your limited to the number of ports. USB you can add a lot of ports to the bus but each one used will lower you speed to any individual one.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 04, 2014, 02:07:27 PM
Up to 127 devices with the all new USB 2.0!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on June 04, 2014, 02:35:34 PM
Are all PS4's UBS ports 3.0?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 02:41:23 PM
I'm not sure, I haven't plugged anything other than a controller charger into mine. Knowing Sony, though, probably, even though I'm not sure why it'd be necessary. As opposed to Nintendo, who openly advertise USB hard drive support but cheap out on the actual port.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 04, 2014, 02:41:49 PM
Yes, all two of them.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 04, 2014, 02:43:46 PM
The Wii U has four, but with my hard drive needing a Y cable and the GameCube adapter taking two of them, it's like it has two.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ymeegod on June 07, 2014, 05:16:28 AM
Finally purchased my PS4 (amazon used/open sale for $300) and here's a couple of my initial thoughts.
The manual was a joke, didn't even point out where the eject button was :( luckily others had a few comments and a youtube video helping us out. Since I got mine used I wanted to make sure the DVD drive was emptied.
Yeah, there really isn't enough USB ports and I wished they had a few in the back but I bought I cheap USB 4 way Hub so I can leave my external storage and fightstick plugged in.
Not sure why this hasn't been addressed yet but the PS4 controller has a built in speaker (like the WII) which games like Killzone uses but there's no way to disable the damn thing for us Headphone users. Sure you can turn it down but there's no way to hear those "audio" files though normal speakers???? Can't believe there hasn't been a patch for this yet.
So far I'm unimpressed with the touch pad. Not sure if any game is going make good use out of it but right now I see it as an expensive that really isn't needed.
---------------------------------------
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 07, 2014, 04:51:59 PM
If you download the E3 Experience on PS4 They try really hard to justify the touchpads existance but fail.
In fact I'm still at the point that the PS3 is the better machine in every way except Graphics. If the battery life wasn't so pathetic on the controller it might have that but the 2 I have can make the Gamepad look good.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 07, 2014, 09:23:24 PM
If they let you disable the light it should improve battery life. Now, to be fair, aside from the Wii, every console is better than the next one in every way except graphics for the first year or so.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 09, 2014, 09:51:49 AM
I will mostly agree except the PS3 was a more capable media machine from the get go over the PS2. I'm not asking the world but 3D Blu-Ray should have been there Day 1 plus equivalent DVD support.
I honestly think the light is a symptom not a cause. I doubt it takes more power then the red light on the PS3 controller. I think the real culprit is the constant pinging.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on June 09, 2014, 10:05:35 PM
So, Grim Fandango. A remastered version of a 15+ year old game is the thing that's going to sell me on getting a PS4.
Goddamnit. You win Sony.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on June 09, 2014, 10:12:32 PM
Yeah that Grim Fandango was the first time I have truly wanted a 'next gen' system.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 09, 2014, 10:26:16 PM
I watched the 5 min recap of Microsoft's show...SONY has blown them away completely.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 09, 2014, 10:40:42 PM
GTA V!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on June 09, 2014, 11:05:08 PM
The Uncharted 4: A Thief's End teaser is exactly why I don't like hearing about games this early. Voice over and Nathan Drake walking into a jungle. Check out all that nothing that was shown. In any case, I didn't particularly enjoy Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception, but I'll probably end up playing this at some point.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 09, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
Grim Fandango is PS4/Vita, so if you're just in for that one a Vita is a way cheaper option.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 09, 2014, 11:17:34 PM
Grim Fandango is PS4/Vita, so if you're just in for that one a Vita is a way cheaper option.
Vita TV be cheaper still.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Drizzt on June 09, 2014, 11:19:17 PM
Sony's conference really let me down this year. Where were the new exclusives? Too many last gen games: GTA V, Last of Us. Delays galore, that horrible free to play sizzle reel. They spent way to much time on that Powers thing, and the letters to Sony. A huge waste of two hours, If it wasn't for Uncharted 4 (which I already knew about) and Bloodborne it would have been unforgivable. I hope Nintendo can save this mediocre E3 tomorrow.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 09, 2014, 11:26:25 PM
That's all that games are these days though. I'm looking forward to GTAV and The Last of Us because I never got them for PS3. I'm actually looking forward to a lot of this stuff, and it's great for me because I'll finally be done with school in December so I will be able to actually purchase and play said games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on June 09, 2014, 11:43:49 PM
(It's a Demon's Souls/Dark Souls spiritual successor)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on June 09, 2014, 11:52:33 PM
I wonder if Grim Fandango will show up elsewhere.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2014, 12:20:13 AM
I was really underwhelmed by what Sony had to show. First off, they basically gave a big middle finger to the Vita, and beyond that there wasn't much on PS4 that really interested me, especially for this year. For whatever reason, I've been fairly interested in Destiny for a while now, but at this point it looks like that and the various annual sports games are the only thing I'll be picking up for the system the rest of the year, aside from your various indie stuff.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on June 10, 2014, 12:23:12 AM
You're telling me you aren't ultra fucking hyped for Bloodborne like me? :(
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2014, 12:26:41 AM
At the end of the day, I feel Sony had a "good" Press Conference, but not a "great" one like last year. It had an incredible amount of variety compared to every other press conference, and man seeing something like Entwined up on the big screen (downloading right now, btw!) was such a blast of fresh air after everything else we saw today. A new piece of Standalone Infamous Second Son DLC centered around THE most interesting character of that game was great. The Order continues to look impressive, LittleBigPlanet 3 was a nice surprise, and Grim Fandango making a return was the best news of the night (I've never played it). Bloodthorne was a nice surprise, though it's made by the Dark Souls people so it can go **** off. That said, Sony showed tonight that they have...nothing...for Fall 2014. The fact that Drive Club didn't even make an appearance at this press conference probably speaks volumes about its quality.
Sony's looking to have a fantastic 2015, but man its 2014 lineup is meh. They had the best games of the show so far, but Microsoft IMO had by far the best conference (if for no other reason than that journey into No Man's Land that Sony did after No Man's Sky's trailer ended).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2014, 12:40:12 AM
You're telling me you aren't ultra fucking hyped for Bloodborne like me? :(
I've never played any of the Souls games, so it doesn't immediately resonate with me. I did like the very little I played of ZombiU, which people often compare to them, at E3 two years ago, but haven't touched my copy.
I'm not saying they didn't show anything good, it's just that there wasn't a ton there that really appealed to me.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: azeke on June 10, 2014, 12:45:35 AM
Just like last year Microsoft had more exclusives i'm interested in. Last time it was Dead rising 3 and Sunset Overdrive, this time it's Scalebound. From what i see Sony didn't show anything. The Order? Meh. Little Big Planet? Nope. Uncharted? Youtube game. Demon's Souls? Call me when i will finish Dark Souls on PC, which is long ways off and most likely i'll stop caring by then.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2014, 12:48:30 AM
And that's, like, your opinion, man. I didn't say the game looked terrible. I merely cited that I had no interest in anything the Dark Souls team touches. I don't agree with their design philosophy. So tone it down, and stop taking things so personally.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on June 10, 2014, 12:58:14 AM
You don't like anything, dude. Whether its Nintendo, Sony, or anyone, it's nothing but doom and gloom from you. I don't even need to read your comments when I see your username, I can already guess what it'll say. I actively skip your sections of your podcast because they are just filled with so much negativity.
And for the record, you said none of that. You simply said **** off.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on June 10, 2014, 01:15:01 AM
I was surprised by how much they did feature the Vita, actually.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2014, 01:47:16 AM
Hey everybody, let's calm it down with the attacks. This really isn't worth the kind of vitriol I've seem here.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on June 10, 2014, 02:07:15 AM
Just got back from the conference and much to my surprise LBP3 got the most applause from the crowd. The Order looked great on the big screen but very dark (talking color not tone). Multi plat stuff looked great but the one big omission from the conference...WHERE THE HELL IS THE LAST GUARDIAN??? Was IGN right? Nothing. Zilch. Donuts.
I'll get a PS4 for New Super Sackboy and GTA V but I really, really wanted to see TEAM ICO. It hurts, like bad. Hopefully Nintendo will ease my suffrage in the A.M but the ouch was so real.
Powers? Thought it was an anime, not live action but still meh...
R&C always looks dope so that was a plus.
All in all it was a solid B. None of those guys were Jack Trenton.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on June 10, 2014, 02:11:57 AM
Brian Michael Bendis got FAAAAT
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2014, 02:30:08 AM
Oh noes. One of the most controversial posters on the site doesn't like me. Whatever will I DO?!!! ::) Btw, I love the prejudging of what I'm going to say before I even say it, to the extent of not even listening to what I'm saying. Really lends credibility to the argument that I "hate" everything.
That aside, I just finished the story mode in Entwined on my PS4, and it is a lovely little game with a gorgeous visual design and a fantastic soundtrack. It reminds me a lot of Dyad in how it takes the Tempest concept and shapes it in new directions. It's on the short side of about an hour and the difficulty curve is all over the place, but I really enjoyed it. High recommended if you're a bit burned out from today's E3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ymeegod on June 10, 2014, 04:15:26 AM
I didn't bother watching the entire 2 1/2hrs and only looked up at the highlights like LBP3 which is coming out Nov. Grim Fandango was a great surprise though I kinda wanted an sequel instead of an "remastered". So many games got pushed back to 2015 so it's kinda hard to get excited about them but Batman looked great.
No Kingdom Hearts III news, I knew it wasn't going be there but it all but confirms an 2015 launch now.
Battank mode is completely retarded though. I saw they added more gauges over enemies' heads, hopefully that will fix combat system.
Yeah, when I saw the Batmobile break out the guns and start shooting people, a certain line from this Batman: The Animated Series episode kept popping up in my head:
Batman looks very pretty, and maybe by the time it comes out I'll be in the mood for another Batman game. Maybe. Origins kind of soured me on it. The new Scarecrow design is pretty freaky, though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 10, 2014, 09:19:23 AM
... No Kingdom Hearts III news, I knew it wasn't going be there but it all but confirms an 2015 launch now. ...
I think I saw a clip in the end Montage.
I'll talk more on the E3 Episode of NFR but, this conference could have gone better. Also I'm more than a little sick and tired of these conferences being about 70% or more M content.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on June 10, 2014, 09:58:48 AM
Batman did indeed look awesome, the scope of the city was nice. But dang it, those empty empty streets irritate me!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2014, 11:33:21 AM
I'll talk more on the E3 Episode of NFR but, this conference could have gone better. Also I'm more than a little sick and tired of these conferences being about 70% or more M content.
Well, we'll be in agreement on that front. I like M-rated games and I like shooters, but I was pretty damn fatigued with the lot of them by the time we got to the end of Ubisoft's conference.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on June 10, 2014, 04:57:03 PM
Entwined worth $10.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2014, 05:11:48 PM
Batman did indeed look awesome, the scope of the city was nice. But dang it, those empty empty streets irritate me!
You know the game has at least another 6 months of development, right?
Though at that point in time would you really want to be walking around Gotham?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: nickmitch on June 11, 2014, 04:33:24 PM
By yourself? At that time of night? No way. Too unsafe.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 11, 2014, 07:09:30 PM
But that's why there is a BATMAN.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: azeke on June 12, 2014, 12:01:38 AM
No way streets Gotham will have more people walking around, it's an obvious design decision to prevent Batman running over people. They've already made huge concessions to make Batmobile "work" -- such as adding stupid Battank mode and making so that you can destroy lampposts and other random stuff environment.
No way streets Gotham will have more people walking around, it's an obvious design decision to prevent Batman running over people. They've already made huge concessions to make Batmobile "work" -- such as adding stupid Battank mode and making so that you can destroy lampposts and other random stuff environment.
Which I think is a HUGE mistake on Sony part. LBP has proven to be an Evergreen game of sorts. The PS4 badly needs this type of exclusive. I think Sony should have played the long game with this one and made it PS4 exclusive. They are shooting themselves in the foot with these PS3/4 games. For most of us PS3 is good enough and the PS4 doesn't even offer something like Portability that the Vita offers.
Sony needs to justify the PS4 as more than just the new shiny for most people. They might as well just release the bugger for Vita too so it can go to Playstation TV.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 13, 2014, 04:16:08 PM
No way streets Gotham will have more people walking around, it's an obvious design decision to prevent Batman running over people. They've already made huge concessions to make Batmobile "work" -- such as adding stupid Battank mode and making so that you can destroy lampposts and other random stuff environment.
Which I think is a HUGE mistake on Sony part. LBP has proven to be an Evergreen game of sorts. The PS4 badly needs this type of exclusive. I think Sony should have played the long game with this one and made it PS4 exclusive. They are shooting themselves in the foot with these PS3/4 games. For most of us PS3 is good enough and the PS4 doesn't even offer something like Portability that the Vita offers.
Sony needs to justify the PS4 as more than just the new shiny for most people. They might as well just release the bugger for Vita too so it can go to Playstation TV.
Disagree completely. Nothing about LBP3 looks like it can't be done on all the systems Sony currently supports, and the PS4 is selling well enough to where it wouldn't hurt its potential sales by offering it on their old system. Additionally, offering it on as many systems as possible ensures the biggest install base possible for an exclusive game.
I'll be picking this game up, as it's one of the few games shown during Sony's press conference that I actually thought looked like a lot of fun while watching. So much of E3 was about dark/serious games that LBP3 was a breath of fresh air.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2014, 05:30:29 PM
I don't think you read my post lolmonade.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 13, 2014, 05:53:42 PM
Sure I did. If I'm not mistaken, you were saying it was foolish for sony to not make LBP3 exclusive to PS4. I was arguing otherwise. Feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted what you wrote.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on June 13, 2014, 10:03:14 PM
I won't say it is a mistake for Sony to keep supporting the PS3 for a while, only because it means I can hold off on upgrading for a while longer. Now that I am sold on Wii U I can wait a while on PS4 especially when all the games I want on Ps4 are still on PS3. Knack is the only game on PS4 I would buy that is not also on PS3 and thats not a system seller from what I gather.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 13, 2014, 10:05:01 PM
I won't say it is a mistake for Sony to keep supporting the PS3 for a while, only because it means I can hold off on upgrading for a while longer.
That would be the exact reason it's a mistake for Sony to continue supporting the PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on June 13, 2014, 10:19:22 PM
I disagree this way they help keep their loyal customers from getting turned off and then when they are ready to transition they will, that is what worked with PS2 so well. With PS3 they kind of pushed too hard in the beginning saying arrogant **** like people will get a second job to buy a PS3 or something like that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 13, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
PS3 cost 50% more than the PS4 at launch (adjusted for inflation it was probably 60% more). They need to drop support for PS3 soon - by year's end I'd say, to get people to move on. Perhaps dropping support is too harsh - but they need to take it off of store shelves. Really they should add PS3 support to the console via emulation (after they re-release The Last of Us, naturally) and take the PS3 off of store shelves.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 13, 2014, 10:54:53 PM
There's very little coming out on the system the rest of this year that isn't also going to be on PS3. They need something to differentiate it. I get why third party stuff like Destiny is on both, but it doesn't make sense for Sony to keep giving it significant support.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on June 13, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
again, why not? If the PS4 is selling briskly now without getting all the exclusives and they know it will continue to do so why not milk their entire fanbase for all they can? PS3 still has at least three more years of solid support before they should pull the plug. if PS4 was doing terrible or if there were signs it was slowing down too much then yes but they still have PS Now which when it launches might be a nice draw for some who are on the fence.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 13, 2014, 11:04:47 PM
I think it's foolish to assume the system will continue selling that well without exclusive content. Most of the people who'd buy one purely on potential have probably already bought one. To keep that up, there need to be games that you can't get without one.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on June 13, 2014, 11:09:32 PM
it's not like they have to get all their sales for the generation in the first year, isn't like year three usually when new consoles hit their stride anyways? i see your point yes they do need exclusive games which is why I am holding off, so others might also be doing the same. They blew past Wii U in less than six months and that machine had a year head start, even if they slow down to Wii U numbers they will still be doing just fine.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 14, 2014, 09:47:06 AM
If they slow down to Wii U numbers (real Wii U numbers, not Mario Kart 8 Wii U numbers), then they will be doing terribly.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 14, 2014, 10:20:04 AM
If they slow down to Wii U numbers (real Wii U numbers, not Mario Kart 8 Wii U numbers), then they will be doing terribly.
Indeed, especially since Microsoft seems to be finding their footing and has at least 1 potential system seller this Fall in Sunset Overdrive. If Sony wants to keep their momentum going and become the defacto primary platform for 3rd party developers, they have to cut the PS3 off. Honestly, as a PS3 owner I want them to cut it off, at least from major retail releases. I don't have the HDD space for new releases anymore. I was ready 3 months ago to make my PS3 my archival system, so it's kind of obnoxious how often I'm having to still boot it up and download new stuff.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 14, 2014, 11:31:11 AM
I threw a 750GB HDD in my PS3 when I signed up for PS Plus...so many free games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 15, 2014, 12:03:36 AM
I threw a 750GB HDD in my PS3 when I signed up for PS Plus...so many free games.
I put a 1 Terabyte HDD in my PS3 3 months ago. I've had to fridge clean the last few months. Often.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on June 15, 2014, 08:17:23 PM
I bought a PS3 to basically play the entire system's back catalog. I expect Sony to cut off support for the system once PS4 hits the one year mark. Until then I see no incentive to buy a PS4 but I fully expect (and I'm surprised) Sony doesn't have more current-gen exclusives.
I don't think we'll get the kind of legacy support the PS2 had simply because the numbers on PS3 aren't as astronomical.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 15, 2014, 08:56:29 PM
I don't intend to buy a PS4 for the next two years, so Sony keeping the PS3 alive suits me just fine thankyouverymuch. Failing that, I'll just rely on localization houses and Namco to get me through.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 15, 2014, 09:00:26 PM
I'm not saying I don't understand why you guys want them to keep supporting it, I just don't see what's in it for Sony.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 15, 2014, 10:50:06 PM
I'm not saying I don't understand why you guys want them to keep supporting it, I just don't see what's in it for Sony.
Taking advantage of the PS3's sizable install base, mostly. Here's the thing: most of the 3rd party developers aren't going whole-hog into the new systems yet, and are taking the same strategy.
My guess is that since LBP3 is a game that isn't perceived as a "system seller" to Sony, so they feel comfortable with making it for both PS3/PS4 in hopes that the PS4 owners will scoop it up because of craving something new to play, and PS3 owners won't feel left out if they're not necessarily ready to upgrade yet.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 15, 2014, 11:04:15 PM
MGSV Ground Zeroes is on sale for $18.99 in the PS Store...should I buy it? Sale ends tomorrow.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: nickmitch on June 16, 2014, 09:50:25 AM
... Here's the thing: most of the 3rd party developers aren't going whole-hog into the new systems yet, ...
That is the exact reason they need to drop the PS3 to Technical Support level. They still patch, promote, and update that system but, they stop dedicating projects to it. It has plenty of 3rd party support it doesn't need Sony Resources to still profitably cruise. The PS4 on the other hand needs to start building its base or we'll be back in a XP Win7 style scenario.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 16, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
Who cares about all this serious crap - do I buy Ground Zeroes or not? $18.99...time is running out...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on June 16, 2014, 12:28:23 PM
I haven't heard great things about it for non-MGS fans and the feeling is its short by my understanding for MGS Fans.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on June 16, 2014, 12:41:08 PM
Who cares about all this serious crap - do I buy Ground Zeroes or not? $18.99...time is running out...
Not. It can be beaten in 10 minutes, not that anyone has on the first play through, but that's still ridiculous. If you hold out a little longer, you can probably get Ground Zeroes for less than $10 in a couple months. Since you're even debating this, I think you can hold out. If you have the extra cash and just want something to play, go for it.
I was watching my friend play and when Keifer Sitherland said, "Kept you waiting, huh?" he yelled out, "**** you, Keifer!" He wasn't even joking; he just found not-David Hayter distracting. I don't know if that will affect your purchase, but it's something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 16, 2014, 03:36:20 PM
It's not Solid Snake though, it's Big Boss. Probably not gonna buy it, I don't even like Metal Gear.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on June 16, 2014, 03:41:39 PM
Who said it was Solid Snake? David Hayter voiced Big Boss in Snake Eater, Portable Ops, and Peace Walker.
And if you said you didn't even like Metal Gear in the first place that would have made not recommending this even easier.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 16, 2014, 03:53:22 PM
... Here's the thing: most of the 3rd party developers aren't going whole-hog into the new systems yet, ...
That is the exact reason they need to drop the PS3 to Technical Support level. They still patch, promote, and update that system but, they stop dedicating projects to it. It has plenty of 3rd party support it doesn't need Sony Resources to still profitably cruise. The PS4 on the other hand needs to start building its base or we'll be back in a XP Win7 style scenario.
So, I guess we just disagree overall with how Sony should handle this, cause I personally don't think it's the terrible decision you and Insanolord think it is, provided they start gradually lessening the new releases on their system. I'll also say that as a consumer, every time I see a game is going to be available both on the old and new Playstation, it makes me wonder how much is being held back by not dedicating their entire resources on the new system.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 20, 2014, 10:19:12 PM
I'm too lazy to get into a game like UFC, but Jesus H. Christ this is the most realistic looking game I've ever seen. I legitimately thought that the first actual fight sequence was just video from a PPV.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on July 01, 2014, 12:18:53 PM
Dualshock 4 works for PS3 now.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on July 01, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
I be more excited if the DUalshock 3 worked for PS4 now or better yet the Blu-Ray Remote.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 02, 2014, 04:43:57 PM
Sony adding Dual Shock 4 support to PS3 is nice, but it feels odd to reward them for how shitty the Dual Shock 3 was by buying a new controller from them.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Stogi on July 03, 2014, 01:59:35 PM
I'm too lazy to get into a game like UFC, but Jesus H. Christ this is the most realistic looking game I've ever seen. I legitimately thought that the first actual fight sequence was just video from a PPV.
Sony adding Dual Shock 4 support to PS3 is nice, but it feels odd to reward them for how shitty the Dual Shock 3 was by buying a new controller from them.
Not to mention the Dualshock 4 support right now isn't 100% yet. We still don't have rumble or SIXAXIS support on the Dualshock 4 yet.
And, incidentally, where the **** is that promised support on the PS4 for the PS3's BluRay remote that Sony promised way back when they unveiled the PS4 in February 2013?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Oblivion on July 03, 2014, 09:19:27 PM
You also can't use the PS Button. You still need the PS3 controller for that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2014, 10:32:23 PM
Seriously, how difficult is it to make drivers that work with the controller? I understand if some of the new features will never be used with the controller on the PS3, but seriously, you can't at least get all the functions of the PS3 controller working on the new controller? That is pretty lame.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Stogi on July 07, 2014, 06:07:45 PM
So I played around with the PS4 quite a bit this weekend. First was UFC, next was Outlast, and finally Fifa. Can I first say that I hate, HATE, the trackpad. In any intense moment, I'm liable to hit it because they made it a fucking button as well. Secondly, the light on the controller is just annoying when playing anything in the dark. For instance, with Outlast, it was like a damn flashlight.
Now the good things. UFC is awesome. It looks great and plays great. The only thing I hate is how difficult it is to submit people. It's not that hard if I already have excellent position. You're not going to get out of a chimora simply because this mini-game is complete ****. Against the CPU, sure, you can definitely submit them, but any real person playing and it's impossible. So every fight we had always ended in a knockout. Speaking of which, because there's no submissions, fights rarely lasted longer than the first round. There's no point in a takedown unless you get rocked, and even then you can dodge around the octagon until you feel better.
Fifa is Fifa. **** don't change, nor does it really need to.
Outlast was by far my favorite game. So scary. Probably the scariest game I've played since RE1&2. You enter this pychiatric ward with nothing but a camera. You can't fight. All you can do is run and hide. You need to document anything important and also use your night vision extensively, so exploring and finding batteries is crucial. But maaaannnnnn......I started out on a mode that was one hit kill. Needless to say, it was intense. Hiding under beds, in lockers, bathroom stalls, vents; where ever, trying to get away from lunatics with machetes and surgical equipment or huge dudes that rip your body from your head. You read right; your body from your head. Worst part about the game though is you don't know who's going to attack you. Some people will just ignore you, while other's will chase you down. Freaky.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 09, 2014, 04:41:04 AM
I just bought a new 2 TB hard drive for my MacBook, so I threw the old 1.5 TB one in my PS4. Swapping the hardware was simple and straightforward, but there's no one step backup and restore option like on PS3 or Vita, so I had to backup saves one by one and redownload games the same way, which is clunkier than it should be.
I was just under 100 GB left before the swap, so while tripling the available space is nice, with my purchasing habits this is going to become a problem again, and it seems like there isn't a ton of potential left for the form factor of drive the system takes to grow much beyond the 2 TB that is the current ceiling. At some point Sony's going to need to let people plug in USB drive so I can get some 8 TB behemoth on there.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 12, 2014, 05:04:31 PM
SONY announced 10 million PS4s sold worldwide. With the terrible sales in Japan, that's pretty damn impressive.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 13, 2014, 11:19:25 AM
SONY announced 10 million PS4s sold worldwide. With the terrible sales in Japan, that's pretty damn impressive.
Well they just blew past Dreamcast lifetime sales next hurdle, Game Cube. Wanna place bets when they soar past those numbers? I am thinking at this rate maybe by early Spring, or even by years end (take your pick calendar or fiscal)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on September 17, 2014, 10:23:48 AM
Sony is expecting a 2 billion loss this fiscal quarter. Its sad becuase they are actually pumping out some really awesome products from their Playstation and Mobile divisions right now, but can't get any traction in any market due to having crappy relations with the carriers and they can't spend their way to the relevance they need like Samsung and Nokia were able to do.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on September 17, 2014, 12:05:23 PM
Well, if you didn't already think the Japanese gaming industry was worthless and beyond the point where it could be saved (at least in terms of console game development), the two Sony TGS press conferences we've had this month made that point loud and clear. -_-' When the only reveal you have for a night is a masturbation simulator (Monster Monpiece 2), complete with trailer of girls stripping, it's time to close up shop on the Japanese gaming industry. *sigh*
Sad to hear about Sony's losses, especially since it's just about every division except the PlayStation division that's dragging them down.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 17, 2014, 01:52:47 PM
SONY actually makes really nice phones. I would take an Xperia over a Galaxy any day.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on September 17, 2014, 02:09:36 PM
SONY actually makes really nice phones. I would take an Xperia over a Galaxy any day.
While that is probably true. I didn't even know they were an actual player in the phone space anymore.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on September 17, 2014, 11:12:53 PM
Sony phones have always been a strong player in overseas markets but a total non-starter in NA.
The fact that the first phone to release worldwide including NA is their Z3 THIS YEAR...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on September 18, 2014, 12:20:17 PM
Ok, Sony, I need you to do one of two things ASAP: Let me use a Dualshock 4 as my controller if using my Vita as an off-TV play option, And/or Let me chat with my friends through the vita headphone jack when using off-tv play.
I've been using off-tv play for 90% of my time playing Destiny. It works well-enough for playing the game, but not having the option to chat while playing if using the vita for remote play is really garbage. I'd also obviously prefer the option to use the DS4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on September 18, 2014, 12:23:40 PM
I believe you can. JP was complaining on Twitter that he synced his DS4 to his Vita and know can't get it to sync with the PS4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on September 18, 2014, 12:28:59 PM
I believe you can. JP was complaining on Twitter that he synced his DS4 to his Vita and know can't get it to sync with the PS4.
I know there's a "work-around" way, but I think it involves having multiple PSN accounts, and I haven't found out how to do so. Personally think this is something that's natively supported by Sony, especially considering how hard they're pushing the vita as a PS4 accessory above all-else.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on September 18, 2014, 01:49:19 PM
I know you can natively do a DS3 but that doesn't get what you looking for. We should play Destiny together sometime. If you friend me just put a note your from NWR. As a rule I don't accept friends request without a note unless I definitely know the person.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on September 19, 2014, 03:44:28 PM
I know you can natively do a DS3 but that doesn't get what you looking for. We should play Destiny together sometime. If you friend me just put a note your from NWR. As a rule I don't accept friends request without a note unless I definitely know the person.
I'm up for some Co-op. I have a few friends who have Destiny, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to have some people from NWR to have a fireteam for some of the raids, etc. I'm at level 17 at this point, but I'll be online intermittently this weekend. I'll add you on PSN sometime this weekend.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 19, 2014, 04:52:32 PM
PS4 outselling Xbone 2:1 in Europe now. Source: the internet.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on September 19, 2014, 09:39:05 PM
Well deserved success, does the two stand for 2 billion dollars gone. :cool;
But man Sony has killed it this generation even if I hate how much they'ved changed from the PS3 generation. (i mean they can't greenlight projects anymore.).
I wonder how much the playstation division will be effected by the cut backs hitting sony right now. The comapny has been doing poorly and it seems that Kaz Harai hasn't actually did anything to stop the bleed and the company has even made some very odd decisions. (giving Marvel the Animation and Merchandising rights to spider-man in favor of getting all the film profits was dumb in hindsight of where the property is at).
I also question how close The Order and Bloodborne are coming out in, you'd think they would space them out more espcaiily after seeing how well wolfenstien and watch_dogs preformed in that May release slot.
I really home Sony doesn't die as they push a much more art house experience in the game industry.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on September 20, 2014, 10:49:17 AM
So I finally got to spend some quality time with a real, live PS4! My thoughts
- The controller is hit and miss, I like the longer handles, the triggers feels good and the dual sticks have great control even if the look tiny. The Share/Options buttons are lousy. They are recessed too much and placement is awkward. The touch pad seems both intrusive and under used at the same time. I'm not sure what value it adds. - The OS is Playstation Blue and a bit refined from the PS3. I didn't see that much of it. - Game one -Destiny. Suprisingly I liked it! I will post in the Destiny thread. - Game two -Blue Estate. Well this game is garbage. Hey! let's make a raunchy waggle rail shooter and somehow make it even worse! PS4 motion aiming makes 2006 Wii remote still look state of the art. - Game three -Infamous Second Son. This was a real disappointment. Possibly the most unlikeable protagonist in a game ever. An hour in, my cousin turned to me a said "This guy's an idiot" The uncanny valley on his face was unnerving as well. He would show his teeth in the umpteenth cut scene and display his generic outrage about the system. Maybe the fact that I live in the Pacific Northwest and could see all the blatant stereo types and misrepresentation of Seattle helped to sour me on the game. The intro tutorial part was too long and the controls felt worse than the first game.
All in all, I may buy a PS4 when a used one drops to $200 and my PS3 is ready to be put out to pasture.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: azeke on October 08, 2014, 12:24:05 AM
Holy ****!
Pix The Cat is officially the first exclusive game on PS4 (or Vita for that matter) that i want to play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBvAVa0tBo
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: shingi_70 on October 09, 2014, 02:06:56 PM
Is that supposed to be pac-man?
Also the driveclub controversy does not look good, personally I think the game looks bland, but it looks like evo might be joining the dead studio team.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ObbyDent on October 09, 2014, 05:40:32 PM
It's a wonderful mix of snake and pac-man without the ghosts. Plus the amazing music brings the whole package together.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on October 09, 2014, 08:43:06 PM
Eh...I thought Pix was OK in that sort of "Snake meets Pac-Man Championship Edition" sort of way, but nothing altogether special. Maybe it gets more interesting as it goes along.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 09, 2014, 10:03:41 PM
That game looks like an acid trip. Perfect type of game for a party environment.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 09, 2014, 11:59:15 PM
This game looks awesome. But it doesn't seem to really push the system graphically...in fact I find this generation funny. We have pushed into the next generation not with games that are blowing our collective minds graphically, but with several companies trying to get back to the basics and form fun unique gaming experiences...but then why upgrade...just do this with the previous generation.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on October 10, 2014, 11:12:52 AM
...but then why upgrade...just do this with the previous generation.
And they are. Hence why people aren't really upgrading.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on October 10, 2014, 09:24:35 PM
Personally I don't think graphics have improved that much since the PS2 era. Lighting has improved, textures and what not but really the games just get a little flashier and the detail gets a little more refined the overall look has been the same or close for a while. The leap to HD was HUGE but after we got used to that it was harder to wow people. I am still planning on getting a PS4 hopefully before Christmas not sure at this point. That particular game looks sick, and I don't mean however the kids are using it I mean it looks like it would make me sick to my stomach to play it would make me dizzy.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on October 10, 2014, 09:30:50 PM
I would have to disagree with that assessment. If you go play a mid-era PS2 game and then compare it to an end-of-life PS3 game, you'd see a pretty staggering change in both game design and presentation. Hell, I remember being floored a while back when someone here on the forums was arguing that there hadn't been a big graphical leap the last generation, and I was pulling up images of just the launch games from the PS3 and 360 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=44324.msg832124#msg832124). The leap this time is not as significant, but we're only in year 1 of likely 5-7 year consoles. We've seen nothing yet in regards to what these consoles can do.
And considering Sony's 10 million PS4 sales so far, I think they'd disagree that people aren't buying the systems. They're buying them faster than they bought any system at the beginning of the last generation. And yes, that includes the Wii, which had a bit of a wind-up period before the sales just went insane.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on October 10, 2014, 11:34:16 PM
I would have to disagree with that assessment. If you go play a mid-era PS2 game and then compare it to an end-of-life PS3 game, you'd see a pretty staggering change in both game design and presentation. Hell, I remember being floored a while back when someone here on the forums was arguing that there hadn't been a big graphical leap the last generation, and I was pulling up images of just the launch games from the PS3 and 360 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=44324.msg832124#msg832124). The leap this time is not as significant, but we're only in year 1 of likely 5-7 year consoles. We've seen nothing yet in regards to what these consoles can do.
And considering Sony's 10 million PS4 sales so far, I think they'd disagree that people aren't buying the systems. They're buying them faster than they bought any system at the beginning of the last generation. And yes, that includes the Wii, which had a bit of a wind-up period before the sales just went insane.
I'm not saying they aren't better just that the stuff that has improved isn't as noticable as in previous generations it takes comparisons and side by side videos to really nitpick over mostly tiny details.
I don't think I was saying nobody is buying the system that was someone else but I agree with you there I was even going to say something similar to what you said. My thing is yes the graphics are better but not so mind blowingly better the leaps have gotten smaller, at least not as big as they used to. I also wasn't talking game design or presentation I said overall graphics, for the most part they have been pretty close the details have gotten better or rather there are more details but the over all look of the games hasn't changed that much. Its not like going from SNES to N64 then PS2 man that was a huge leap these last two shifts were more incremental like going from SNES to NEO GEO, an improvement sure but not a HUGE improvement.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on October 14, 2014, 02:47:09 PM
Last gen was the first one where visually the launch games didn't immediately blow away the previous gen. I think that will just be the norm now as the improvements will be subtler and it will take a few years before there is a really obvious jump. It isn't PS1->PS2 anymore.
For me what makes a PS4 purchase seem unnecessary thus far is the trend where games are made for both the current and previous gen at the same time. Too often a new PS4/XB1 game is also available on the PS3/X360. I didn't buy a Gamecube to play spiffier versions of N64 games. I need exclusives to make me move up. I get that the idea is that the old consoles have a bigger userbase so you want to include them to get a bigger audience but does nothing for selling the console itself. I guess that's more Sony's and Microsoft's responsibility but if everyone is going to continue to make PS3 versions, I don't need to upgrade, at least not until the improvements to the PS4 version become more obvious. Go to Gamerankings and look at the top PS4 games and four of the top five are also PS3 games.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MagicCow64 on October 14, 2014, 06:18:37 PM
But this time it's different! Maybe!
I think the shift in the design of the Xbone and PS4 toward pretty much mimicking the specs of a mid-high range game PC is going tamp down the possibility of unlocking a "wow" factor not apparently possible in early gen games. Like, I kind of doubt there's going to be a Gear of War-style eye-opener. The specs are what they are out of the box, and while they'll surely be juiced and optimized as much as possible, there is less potential for crazy work-arounds and breakthroughs in programming for weird proprietary boxes. (Factor 5, for instance, did some crazy crap with the Gamecube that Nintendo was unwilling to try for their own titles.)
Separately, there are fewer low-hanging fruit. A lot of the new extra juice goes toward higher resolutions and framerates (which still aren't hitting 1080/60FPS for many "next gen" games) and improved anti-aliasing, which don't make a startling difference for most people, myself included.
I think the best chance for something truly impressive happening (outside of super-pretty corridor/cinematic presentation crap that remains less interactive than many PS2-era titles) has to come through design. Using the extra power to design a gameplay concept that wasn't previously possible, even if it doesn't look technically stunning. Dead Rising with moar zombies isn't going to cut it. Maybe pick up the advanced physics baton from Half Life 2, where it's been gathering dust? Work on an advancement in AI, where it's been gathering dust since Perfect Dark? Something interesting with time beyond short-term rewinds? I dunno. But right now all I'm seeing from next gen is superficial visual enhancement and trying to jam online social experiences down the throats of as many genres as possible.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on October 14, 2014, 08:36:57 PM
Well, if you're looking for a game that puts the extra power of the new consoles to work on AI, I would suggest Shadow of Mordor (its selling point IS its AI Nemesis system). The last-gen versions of that game aren't going to have that Nemesis system because they're not powerful enough to run it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 14, 2014, 10:39:06 PM
Downloaded that Pix the Cat game today, hopefully I can play it after graduation in December. PS+ has given me a pretty substantial game collection. Definitely worth the $30 (or even the $50 if you must pay full price) per year. I wonder if they let you keep the games when PS Plus shuts down eventually.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on October 14, 2014, 10:47:49 PM
I would advise against deleting them, though the fact that it's the gateway to the least useful feature in gaming (online MP) means that can's getting kicked into the next decade.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 15, 2014, 12:07:10 AM
Minecraft came out on Vita today, and I picked it up. I was really into the PC version for a while, and I've had an urge to get back to it recently but was waiting for this version.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 18, 2014, 11:45:58 AM
"The PS4 is selling terribly." - people on these forums
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on November 18, 2014, 12:14:25 PM
Who said the PS4 was selling bad, except in Japan?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 18, 2014, 02:03:10 PM
People. Don't look for evidence, just assume it's true.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on November 18, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
The IGN article mentions analysts predicting the end of the console. Like we have tablets and phones now so what do you need videogame consoles for? That's such a non-gamer perspective. The reality is that non-gaming machines aside from PCs are only suitable for casual fare. The videogame market existed for decades before the blue ocean crowd came in so why can it not sustain itself on that pre-existing audience that was already buying games before Wii Sports and Angry Birds came around? Try to play a GOOD game on a tablet and then try to argue we don't need consoles.
I think that's a big part of the PS4's success. Consoles are for dedicated gamers. Nintendo tried to recreate the Wii's mainstream success while MS is backpedaling off of a previously mandatory Kinect purchase, an accessory that only impressed casuals. The casuals are gone. They have their phones. Sony saw that, the other guys didn't. The PS4 really hasn't impressed me yet. It doesn't turn me off either though. It reminds me a lot of the PS1 era where Sony succeeded by simply being competent during a time the other guys were screwing up.
Here's something that's quite impressive: Sony has now bounced back from a screw up and could claim to be the only videogame company to truly do that. They beat the old guard with the PS1, stayed on top with the PS2, slipped big time with the PS3 but managed to slowly rebuild their credibility by the end of the generation and appear to have made a complete comeback with the PS4. Nintendo thinks they came back with the Wii but really just temporarily found a new audience while further destroying the flimsy standing they had with the traditional audience. Sony has regained their old target audience after losing a fair chunk of them to Microsoft. They actually learned from their mistakes, a concept that sounds simple and obvious in theory but is rarely executed correctly. Of course the overall company of Sony is run by idiots but maybe that makes the PlayStation division's continued success all the more impressive.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on November 18, 2014, 02:27:54 PM
I'm still surprised by the strong selling of the PS4. I've owned one from launch and now that they broke the perfectly functional Share Play I'm back to not really being able to recommend the PS4 over a PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: RedBlue on November 27, 2014, 01:19:14 AM
The IGN article mentions analysts predicting the end of the console. Like we have tablets and phones now so what do you need videogame consoles for? That's such a non-gamer perspective. The reality is that non-gaming machines aside from PCs are only suitable for casual fare. The videogame market existed for decades before the blue ocean crowd came in so why can it not sustain itself on that pre-existing audience that was already buying games before Wii Sports and Angry Birds came around? Try to play a GOOD game on a tablet and then try to argue we don't need consoles.
I think that's a big part of the PS4's success. Consoles are for dedicated gamers. Nintendo tried to recreate the Wii's mainstream success while MS is backpedaling off of a previously mandatory Kinect purchase, an accessory that only impressed casuals. The casuals are gone. They have their phones. Sony saw that, the other guys didn't. The PS4 really hasn't impressed me yet. It doesn't turn me off either though. It reminds me a lot of the PS1 era where Sony succeeded by simply being competent during a time the other guys were screwing up.
Here's something that's quite impressive: Sony has now bounced back from a screw up and could claim to be the only videogame company to truly do that. They beat the old guard with the PS1, stayed on top with the PS2, slipped big time with the PS3 but managed to slowly rebuild their credibility by the end of the generation and appear to have made a complete comeback with the PS4. Nintendo thinks they came back with the Wii but really just temporarily found a new audience while further destroying the flimsy standing they had with the traditional audience. Sony has regained their old target audience after losing a fair chunk of them to Microsoft. They actually learned from their mistakes, a concept that sounds simple and obvious in theory but is rarely executed correctly. Of course the overall company of Sony is run by idiots but maybe that makes the PlayStation division's continued success all the more impressive.
The question is will Sony still be around for the next gen.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ObbyDent on November 27, 2014, 01:54:44 AM
The question is will Sony still be around for the next gen.
ok sir
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on November 27, 2014, 06:26:40 AM
Isn't Sony doing poorly in every division except video games? Barring an epic and historic collapse, Sony will most certainly be around next generation, but it better hope Nintendo and Microsoft don't suddenly figure out working strategies which doesn't seem terribly likely based on the way things stand currently, but I suppose you never know.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 27, 2014, 10:47:28 AM
Within the context of Ian's post it's a fair question. He said Nintendo came back with the Wii only to fall off again with the Wii U, while assuming Sony came back fully based on pretty much just a year. We don't know where Sony's going to be at this point next time around. A lot can happen in that span of time.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: RedBlue on November 27, 2014, 10:50:10 AM
Yes, all the profit from the video game division was wiped out. They already sold their pc business and they announced they are making less TVs and less phones to try to loose less money.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 27, 2014, 12:16:54 PM
Next month's PS+ free games are pretty awesome. Actually every month it's pretty awesome. But anyway...
PS4: Injustice: Gods Among Us Ultimate Edition Secret Ponchos Titan Attacks!
PS3: Hitman HD Trilogy Deadly Promotion: Director's Cut Titan Attacks!
Vita: Final Horizon Titan Attacks!
Next month PS4 gets Infamous: First Light and The Swapper for free.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: nickmitch on November 28, 2014, 12:26:18 AM
Gheeze, why bother buying PS4 games at all?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Khushrenada on November 28, 2014, 12:54:07 AM
Probably should've just waited a year for Destiny.
Probably. I bought into the hype and then couldn't cancel my Pre-Order.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 30, 2014, 04:44:29 AM
I finally got around to installing the 2 TB drive I had sitting here for a while in my PS4. I'd already gone through the process once earlier this year, when I swapped out the stock 500 GB one for my old 1.5 TB. It's a relatively simple process, but it feels like it could be more streamlined. Backing up/restoring save files is definitely way more trouble than it needs to be.
This is as big as these drives come (at least right now), and once the long, long process of redownloading everything finishes it's going to be close to half full, just a year into the system's life. Sony's going to have to come up with something to extend it, ideally just letting me do what I do on Wii U and plug in an external drive.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 30, 2014, 03:01:30 PM
I'm curious to see what your budget spent on digital media across all gaming systems since the Wii is.
It's gotta be someone yearly salary worth of downloadables at this point...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 30, 2014, 03:37:17 PM
I don't think I want to know that.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 30, 2014, 04:20:15 PM
you'd probably quit gaming if you saw the $$$ laid out like that in front of you.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2014, 07:00:11 PM
I did quit gaming for that reason. $400-500 a year...on a non console launch year, and that is just the bare minimum. I know I have spent way more than that some years.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on November 30, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
A long time ago I sat down, and I'm sure you can find me talking about this one the forums before, and I compared gaming to other hobbies. What I found was with how I game it was very competitive and most of the time cheaper than most other hobbies.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 30, 2014, 10:50:47 PM
I remember that conversation.
It may be true for many people. I have found that it isn't true for me. But another cost to gaming you have to calculate is if the hobby enriches your life. I wish I had realized that gaming does very little to better your life...I should have been more committed to a sport or reading, or theater, or programming, or language study...or basically anything.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 02, 2014, 12:30:46 AM
It's part of the reason I stopped collecting comics all those years ago.... and then I quit smoking.... and then I quit drinking... and then I quit gaming... and then I quit buying fucking lotto tickets...
all that hobby money just keeps getting funneled into something else. I wonder what's next? gambling? hookers? gambling on hookers?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on January 10, 2015, 02:50:52 PM
I found that I can't think about how much I spend on gaming in terms of value, I collect more than I play that is for sure. The only hobby I ever got into that didn't eat up all my free money was Dungeons and Dragons, and that is because I stick to one rule set for damn near a decade and I rarely buy supplements. Then I discovered Magic the gathering, used to be addicted to trading cards back in the 90s so the bug bit me again and wow now there is a hobby that is not worth the money for what you get.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on February 17, 2015, 10:34:37 PM
The Order 1886. Such sweet sweet schadenfreude. The entire narrative of marketing is being controlled by a YouTube let's player and review embargoes are keeping game journalism outlets from properly commenting on the issues until Thursday.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 17, 2015, 11:02:31 PM
I heard it's a 5 hour game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on February 18, 2015, 12:11:48 AM
I heard it might be worth your time, but you gotta wait until Thursday for the review embargo to lift.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 18, 2015, 12:26:12 AM
I've also heard it's an 8 hour game, and a 12 hour game, and a 15 hour game. It depends on who you talk to. Suffice it to say that 5.5 hour completion time you see quoted everywhere is from a Youtube speedrunner who skipped all skippable story content and did no exploration. They just ran through the levels without dying. The typical timeframe for people who actually play through the game normally seems to be about 8 hours or so, which is fine by me.
Honestly, the complaints over completion time have to be some of the most idiotic I've seen in a while. It's like the internet was experiencing a shortage of things to bitch about. So long as you find the experience enjoyable and worth your time, I don't think the completion time altogether matters. It's especially hilarious seeing the press jump onboard this gravy train considering so many of them also bitched about Alien Isolation being TOO LONG at 12-15 hours last October.
As for that speedrunner, I think uploading an entire game to youtube before the game's even out is a particularly dickish thing to do. I hear Sony took the videos down, and I can't say I blame them.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on February 18, 2015, 07:45:01 AM
People here already got the game (Best Buy/Shop of the Future shipped them Monday thinking it was a Tuesday release). I look forward to finding used copies Thursday.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 18, 2015, 12:01:29 PM
The latest Penny Arcade comic sums up my position on this "issue" pretty accurately:
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: oohhboy on February 18, 2015, 01:09:49 PM
So nothing wrong with the review embargo right guys? It's ok to do that but not post a video of you playing the game? Its almost like "Gaming media" is nothing more than a PR arm extension enabled by the very consumers of said products.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on February 18, 2015, 02:17:19 PM
Suffice it to say that 5.5 hour completion time you see quoted everywhere is from a Youtube speedrunner who skipped all skippable story content and did no exploration. They just ran through the levels without dying.
Playing a game like that seems nutty to me but it isn't as uncommon as I'd expect. Too often I read comments where people are happy that a game lets you skip the cutscenes. I think that's great on a replay and it's a must if the cutscene replays every time you die. But I've seen it get brought up as a good thing because the person wants to skip them to get back to playing. What is the point of playing if it's just some checkbox on your "to do" list? "Yep, beat it. On to the next game." If you're just powering through games I'd say you're playing games wrong. If you're going to play like that you might as well stick to shmups and Atari 2600 games. Does someone who plays like that even see the levels as locations and the enemies as creatures or is it just some obstacle course that might as well just be undetailed gray polygons?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on February 18, 2015, 03:53:18 PM
So nothing wrong with the review embargo right guys? It's ok to do that but not post a video of you playing the game? Its almost like "Gaming media" is nothing more than a PR arm extension enabled by the very consumers of said products.
That's what I love about this whole issue. Predictably, this whole mess has turned into the same stupid argument about game length (oh hey look at all the posts above mine), when it should be sparking a more thorough debate about publisher-controlled pre-release narrative, review embargos and marketing in general. But let's talk about how that YouTuber is "playing the game the wrong way", as if there's only one right way to play games.
Ready at Dawn never wanted us to talk about game length, quick-time events and reused boss fights. We keep letting devs and pubs get away with the same **** because we like it when we get screwed, apparently.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MagicCow64 on February 18, 2015, 04:41:47 PM
Well put, Soren.
Also, just for the sake of argument since it came up, that 5.5 hour The Order video was not actually a speedrun from what I read from commentary about it. Apparently the player didn't linger in non-interactive areas or read journal entries, but was otherwise just playing through on normal, died plenty of times, messed around in spots. etc.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 18, 2015, 04:55:07 PM
So nothing wrong with the review embargo right guys? It's ok to do that but not post a video of you playing the game? Its almost like "Gaming media" is nothing more than a PR arm extension enabled by the very consumers of said products.
Frankly, I'm not fond of this review embargo, or that the game's coming out on Friday for that matter. The stores already have the game. I confirmed that with my local GS. They're holding it for Friday because....reasons. The game's out in the wild and on Youtube. The damage has been done. Just allow stores to sell the damn thing, and allow reviewers to talk about it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on February 18, 2015, 05:24:35 PM
Review embargo, at least if it is pushed until the last minute, is usually code for "we know our game sucks." It usually means the publisher is concerned that the reviews won't be favourable and will hurt sales if published prior to release.
A review typically needs a pre-release copy of the game. The only way to get that is from the publishers. If you don't play ball with the publishers you don't get a review copy. So an embargo seems like a reasonably fair trade-off for getting an early copy for free. But then why couldn't a publisher demand that they only get favourable reviews or they'll not provide review copies? Take it to that extreme and the reviews are worthless. It's a tricky balancing act.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 18, 2015, 05:29:52 PM
Review embargo, at least if it is pushed until the last minute, is usually code for "we know our game sucks." It usually means the publisher is concerned that the reviews won't be favourable and will hurt sales if published prior to release.
Well, this review embargo isn't "last minute", like AC Unity was 12 hours after release last year. This one lifts tomorrow and the game comes out on Friday.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 19, 2015, 12:21:45 PM
Well, The Order reviews embargo dropped and the end result is about what I expected after the last week: scores varying wildly between as low as an 5.5 from Polygon to an 8.2 from Gametrailers. As I feared, the central complaint seems to be the standard shooting gameplay, something that's bothered me every time Sony's put a 5 second FMV up on stage at trade shows instead of gameplay demos. That said, the Gametrailers review was written by Daniel Bloodworth and my tastes & feelings on games tend to line up with his. I think I'll stick with my Order...well, "order."
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ceric on February 19, 2015, 01:34:47 PM
Well, The Order reviews embargo dropped and the end result is about what I expected after the last week: scores varying wildly between as low as an 5.5 from Polygon to an 8.2 from Gametrailers. As I feared, the central complaint seems to be the standard shooting gameplay, something that's bothered me every time Sony's put a 5 second FMV up on stage at trade shows instead of gameplay demos. That said, the Gametrailers review was written by Daniel Bloodworth and my tastes & feelings on games tend to line up with his. I think I'll stick with my Order...well, "order."
NWR Alum Daniel Bloodworth?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 19, 2015, 01:35:52 PM
Well, The Order reviews embargo dropped and the end result is about what I expected after the last week: scores varying wildly between as low as an 5.5 from Polygon to an 8.2 from Gametrailers. As I feared, the central complaint seems to be the standard shooting gameplay, something that's bothered me every time Sony's put a 5 second FMV up on stage at trade shows instead of gameplay demos. That said, the Gametrailers review was written by Daniel Bloodworth and my tastes & feelings on games tend to line up with his. I think I'll stick with my Order...well, "order."
NWR Alum Daniel Bloodworth?
I believe so, yes. He's mentioned Nintendo World Report a few times on Gametrailers' weekly video podcast GT Time.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 21, 2015, 02:26:59 AM
I have finished The Order: 1886, and despite some issues with the ending overall I rather enjoyed the game. It's polished as ****, the combat's thoroughly competent, and the QTEs are WAY less intrusive than the reviews led me to believe. The reviews make the game sound like a David Cage production, but I found them to be at worst around Uncharted level. In fact, the game in general reminds me a lot of the first Uncharted: very rough around the edges in place, but a solid foundation for a potentially awesome sequel that corrects many of the first game's issues.
And for the record, I don't feel the least bit cheated by the run time. I found it about standard length for a shooter, and I actually paid more for it than most people will since I got the $80 LE w/ the humongous Gallahad statue.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on February 22, 2015, 09:17:52 AM
And for the record, I don't feel the least bit cheated by the run time. I found it about standard length for a shooter, and I actually paid more for it than most people will since I got the $80 LE w/ the humongous Gallahad statue.
I never get the game length argument. You can't always take the value of a game based solely on dollars/hour. Some of the best gaming experiences can be sub-10 hours. Even if you assume The Order has an average 6 hr run length, that's $10/hour of game entertainment, still better than a lot of other mediums.
That said, Similarities to Uncharted tell me it's a "wait for it to be $20 or on PS+" decision for me. Just not a type of game I can play often.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ObbyDent on February 22, 2015, 11:31:41 AM
Itsd not similar to Uncharted, its far more comparable to Gears of War. More like games of yore amirite
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on February 22, 2015, 11:44:27 AM
Itsd not similar to Uncharted, its far more comparable to Gears of War. More like games of yore amirite
The UI is pretty much identical to Uncharted/The Last of Us; the way the game moves between "cutscene -> walk & examine -> gunfight" is similar to Uncharted/The Last of Us; the way collectibles are scattered around is similar to Uncharted/The Last of Us; and the general gunplay and how enemies move & flank (especially the shotgunners) is very similar to Uncharted/The Last of Us. There's even a little bit of climbing & traversal similar to Uncharted/The Last of Us, though nowhere near to the absurd degrees that Drake does. Gallahad moves with a great deal more weight than Drake or Joel does, so the game has a different feel to it than Naughty Dog's work, but the similarities are striking.
Honestly, the only similarity it bears to the Gears series is a vague visual one, and the Gears series wishes it had this quality of art design/character design. Plus...yeah, the voice acting in The Order is on a completely different level than something like Gears.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 14, 2015, 09:08:42 PM
I just discovered another great benefit of PS4 and PS Plus, they let you back up your game saves to the cloud and you can re-download them latter that is awesome does PS3 have that same feature because if it does I am taking advantage of it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on March 14, 2015, 09:37:00 PM
Yes it does. My Tales of Symphonia save sits in the cloud while I wait for April to pick up a new PS3.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 14, 2015, 09:43:17 PM
I had to initialize the PS4 to wipe the storage to, hopefully, fix Minecraft crashing on me. I didn't have a spare hard drive easy to get to so I was so happy to learn to there was a cloud back up solution.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Dasmos on June 15, 2015, 10:44:13 PM
Definitely thought Sony's conference was better than Microsoft's.
Had a few cool surprises, and it's good to see The Last Guardian back.
And lol at the Uncharted demo fucking up. At least it wasn't scripted.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 15, 2015, 10:58:16 PM
Sony just finished up their conference:
The Last Guardian Trailer (w/Gameplay) Horizon: Zero Dawn - Guerrilla Games new IP: 3rd person game with post-apocalyptic motif, tribal hunters chasing robot animals? New Hitman Game New Street Fighter 5 Player announcements No Man's Sky - Gameplay trailer Dreams - Media Molecule animation tool? Firewatch - Adventure game where you play a park ranger? Destiny DLC - The Taken King Assassin's Creed: Clockwork Orange edition Final Fantasy: So cute you barf edition Final Fantasy 7: REMAKE. Devolver Indie potpurri Shenmue 3 Oculus Rift Project Morpheus A la carte tv channel subscriptions?!?! Codblops III multiplayer co-op. - 4 player Disney Infinity Star wars Uncharted 4.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: UncleBob on June 15, 2015, 11:00:42 PM
FF7 HD... I can't help but think someone at SONY saw Nintendo's Earthbound annoncement yesterday and though "Oh, yeah! Let's see what happens when we do this..."
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 15, 2015, 11:03:14 PM
Definitely thought Sony's conference was better than Microsoft's.
Had a few cool surprises, and it's good to see The Last Guardian back.
And lol at the Uncharted demo fucking up. At least it wasn't scripted.
I was ultra hype through most of it, but upon retrospect, so much of Sony's conference were quick hits & more teasers than actual trailers. I'll reserve hype until there are some solid release dates or at least more detail. Additionally, it felt like they blew their payload in the first 1/2 of the conference & sort of drug on until the Uncharted sequence.
Totally agree on the Last Guardian though, so happy to see that back from the dead.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 15, 2015, 11:19:54 PM
Uncharted 4 looks better than just about anything out there.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 15, 2015, 11:24:31 PM
Sony had some big announcements, but just about everything was 2016 at the earliest.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 15, 2015, 11:26:24 PM
Sony's 1st party lineup, now until 12/31:
- God of War 3 HDer (July) - Until Dawn (Aug) - Tearaway Unfolded (Sep) - Uncharted: Master Thief Collection (Oct) ...?
That's three HD remakes and a horror game. Sure, they've got the TLG/UC4 double shot next year, but who knows when Horizon is coming out and FF7R is 2017 at the earliest.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on June 15, 2015, 11:38:28 PM
Horizon looks like....I don't know..really really really good but...
SHENMUE III
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on June 16, 2015, 12:01:28 AM
So we're alright with Kickstarter announcements now?
Jeez, it's already over a million. But you know, maybe just fund the whole thing if you want it that much.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Louieturkey on June 16, 2015, 12:09:10 AM
Guess they went back to their ICO roots with Last Guardian. It was like the blind princess evolved into a giant crippled flying dog.
But it looked awesome.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 16, 2015, 12:13:29 AM
Quick thoughts on the conference: Great, but Sony's 2015 still looks weak as hell, with only Until Dawn; The Uncharted Collection; & Tearaway.
Horizon looks fantastic.
I despise that the extremely whiny & possessive FF7 fanbase is finally getting their wish.
The Last Guardian finally being a reality again made me very happy.
Shenmue 3 will bankrupt whoever's REALLY paying for that game (likely Sony), even with that Kickstarter.
No Ratchet & Clank, no Sly Cooper, no Kingdom Hearts 3, and no Persona 5 makes me unhappy.
VERY short conference by Sony Standards.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ymeegod on June 16, 2015, 12:40:12 AM
A lot of stuff sony showed was 2016 or later so that was disappointing. Dreams--what the hell is this? No Man's Sky still looking boring as hell so that really only left with some exclusive DLC news and Horizon, which was looking great but no date set has me thinking 2017.
Very little VITA news :(. Really wanted Sega to bring Valkyrie Chronicles 3 to the NA at the very least :().
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ShyGuy on June 16, 2015, 12:48:06 AM
Well, Sony hit the fanboy triple score. The Last Guardian, Final Fantasy VII remake, Shenmue III.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ObbyDent on June 16, 2015, 12:53:49 AM
Gotta love the ever-present broodwars and his ever-present negativity.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna move to Sony World Report because some of the reactions I've seen here is ridiculous.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MagicCow64 on June 16, 2015, 01:04:13 AM
That Kickstarter Shenmue business really is absurd. It's worse than Spike Lee going to Kickstarter. Instead of a wealthy artist being able to fund the project himself but seeking crowdfunding instead, a multinational corporation is making the same plea while using the cachet to enhance its own brand before the project is even technically real, though of course the Kickstarter can't fail.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 16, 2015, 01:07:45 AM
Gotta love the ever-present broodwars and his ever-present negativity.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna move to Sony World Report because some of the reactions I've seen here is ridiculous.
By all means. No one's stopping you. I called the conference "great." You DID read that, right? I assume you can read?
I liked the Sony & Microsoft conferences today. They renewed my faith in E3, despite EA & Ubisoft's conferences sucking (as usual). That said, Sony announced absolutely NOTHING for 2015 at that conference. Their Fall 2015 lineup looks just as weak now as it did before E3, and I find that very concerning.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Evan_B on June 16, 2015, 02:58:41 AM
Nintendo focusing on the End of 2015 might be a good thing for them, because like Broodwars, I tought some of these announcements were neat but all those release dates were disheartening.
It's cool to see a mix of old and new on PS4, but dear lord... I've already heard people declaring FFVII BUT HIGH TECH the thing that won E3 which is just pathetic.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 16, 2015, 03:01:30 AM
Nintendo focusing on the End of 2015 might be a good thing for them, because like Broodwars, I tought some of these announcements were neat but all those release dates were disheartening.
It's cool to see a mix of old and new on PS4, but dear lord... I've already heard people declaring FFVII BUT HIGH TECH the thing that won E3 which is just pathetic.
A lot of people are going to be very disappointed by this FF 7 remake. For one thing, it's likely a LONG way off. For another, people forget just HOW goofy FF7 was, and I really wonder how that stuff is going to mesh with this dark & brooding Advent Children art style.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ymeegod on June 16, 2015, 05:53:57 AM
I was more surprised at the reaction of FFVII remake announcement, I always knew it was just a matter of time for it to happen. There's some very funny youtube vidoes of people going bat-**** nuts over FFVII Remake.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on June 16, 2015, 07:17:36 AM
The FF7 remake reactions are over the top and I think everyone losing their minds over it are idiots. Tifa with jiggle physics and Aerith's death (Is that still even a spoiler?) in HD and the fanboys are happy. Sorry, but if this is THE reason to buy a PS4, then it is pathetic.
The Last Guardian might be what pushes me into a PS4 along with Bloodborne and Persona 5.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 16, 2015, 08:14:24 AM
So we're alright with Kickstarter announcements now?
Jeez, it's already over a million. But you know, maybe just fund the whole thing if you want it that much.
A quick google-fu suggests the cost to develop Shenmue was $70 million. That's a lot of Guacamole. My guess is the kickstarter is meant to gauge interest more than outright fund the project (beyond the initial donor level, I believe all remaining ones are for varying copies of the game), and Sony is backing it financially beyond the funds received from kickstarter. Probably also why PS4 is the only non-PC system it's coming to.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 16, 2015, 08:16:54 AM
Well, let's hope that Kickstarter took the bullet that's aimed squarely at the PC market and the PS4, because Shenmue's funding at a pace that would get it a phone call from Sepp Blatter.
Shenmue: Killed the Dreamcast Shenmue 2: Killed Sega as an independent company Shenmue 3: ???
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 16, 2015, 08:33:29 AM
The FF7 remake reactions are over the top and I think everyone losing their minds over it are idiots. Tifa with jiggle physics and Aerith's death (Is that still even a spoiler?) in HD and the fanboys are happy. Sorry, but if this is THE reason to buy a PS4, then it is pathetic.
I don't see FF7 as a system sell as much as it's fan-service. I played that game at the right time in my life for it to really click. Unless I hear ways in which they've really screwed with the original game mechanics or bad story changes, i'd probably be in the boat of people who'll jump at the chance to play this in HD again.
It's a tough line to balance on - you're right there are some cringey things (Tifa's bowling-ball top-heaviness for sure). That said, I think the bigger fear of mine is they go too far off the reservation and make changes to the story or battle system in service of "modernizing" or trying to appeal to new potential players.
Square-Enix just needs to acknowledge this remake needs to be for the original fans of the PS1 game, and not try to cater much to newcomers. They should take the same route Grezzo did with the Zelda remakes and make any changes in service to improving the flow of the game and minor improvements. The music, locations, and story are iconic to fans now...you mess with that, and you mess with any reason they'll want to play the remake.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: ejamer on June 16, 2015, 09:33:43 AM
As someone who only tried playing FF7 recently (before giving up in disgust, making it one of extremely few games that I not only fail to finish but actively regret paying for), I'm very interested to see how the upgrade goes.
This remake could fix all of the problems (very poor translation work marring this story, far too much time wasted on garbage mini-games and weird side stories instead of the core game, graphics that looked poor on release and have aged horribly) or it could make the flaws stand out even worse.
Will nostalgia-crazed fans love the re-release, or end up viewing it as some kind of sacrilege? How will newcomers to FF7 will enjoy the uneven experience? Will I be convinced to give the game another shot despite the strong distaste it left in my mouth previously?
So yeah, very curious.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on June 16, 2015, 09:44:43 AM
They probably will make a true and blue remake. Aside from changing character models and giving them some form of character, FF3 on the DS was pretty much the same aside from graphics.
I don't hate the game, but right now there is no reason for a remake other then a cash grab. The game is easily available on PC, PS3, and PS4 (Idk about the Vita). Just like there was no reason for FFX/X-2 HD to be ported 3 TIMES! SE likes to run wild with remakes sometimes and FF7 has an obsessive fanbase and overall it is just annoying. Especially how a remake is overshadowing everything else at this point.
Just for reference's sake. I got a PS1 copy in ~2011. Saw siblings play it back in the 90s a little (mainly chocobo races), but they broke the discs. When I played it, I did love the game. I do agree with ejamer on one thing though. Translation needs help. A lot of text just felt unnecessary (the voice in the Mako reactor you hear once and never hear again for example).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on June 16, 2015, 10:36:47 AM
I feel like all remakes are cash grabs. Why else would a company do it? There's a prexisting fanbase for whatever is being remade so it's already an easier sell.
I didn't play Final Fantasy VII until 2000, and that was after Final Fantasy IX so I don't have the same attachment to a Cloud and co as many others. I'm glad the game is getting remade, but I wouldn't pay $60 for it.
I expect only the basic story to remain the same but slightly altered to accommodate all the sequels and side stories over the years. No major changes though.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 16, 2015, 11:15:12 AM
To me, the Gametrailers reaction that was spectacular to watch last night wasn't FF7's, but Shenmue 3. Huber completely flipped his lid at the sight of a cherry blossom and 3 notes of music.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Enner on June 16, 2015, 11:28:27 AM
The Huber reaction was a delight. Dreams are real!
EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLRWL0s0l10
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on June 16, 2015, 11:56:29 AM
I'm so happy for Huber! I usually go team Kyle with my bets but this time I am glad I was wrong ^-^
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on June 16, 2015, 06:07:52 PM
Well, Sony hit the fanboy triple score. The Last Guardian, Final Fantasy VII remake, Shenmue III.
To me this demonstrates some keen awareness on Sony's part as to who their audience is. The days of pandering to our grandmother is over. The people that buy consoles these days are hardcore gamer geeks. Sony figured this out, Microsoft figured it out late after stumbling out of the gate with the mandatory Kinect purchase and I don't really know what Nintendo thinks. So Sony is going all out in hitting the points that anyone familiar with gamer culture KNOWS will go over huge.
Yeah it's a lot of 2016 but last year Nintendo was all about 2015 and that went over well while their focus on just this year this time around has not. If your best stuff is next year, then it is what it is. Not an ideal situation but what do you lose in having an impressive E3? Nothing really. If the next year is a little rough at least a good E3 will create some hype to keep interest high.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 16, 2015, 06:14:56 PM
What they have to lose is what Nintendo had to lose by showing things way ahead of time last year. At least in Nintendo's case it made sense because they were desperate, but Sony's leading the pack right now.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 16, 2015, 10:29:52 PM
Sony won.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Phil on June 16, 2015, 10:38:07 PM
Thank god that is settled. It did so well for Nintendo last year "winning E3. Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 16, 2015, 11:01:31 PM
Not sure what that means, Nintendo did horribly last year too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 16, 2015, 11:06:20 PM
The only way that conference could get any more NeoGAF would be if Banderas hosted it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on June 16, 2015, 11:23:12 PM
Phil is being weirdly belligerent all over the forums. It's actually kind of funny.
Sony had the bigger surprise announcements even if two of them are niche titles (The Last Guardian and Shenmue 3) and one is a remake. Horizon: Zero Dawn looks nice, but I don't get the robot-dino hunting. Why are there robot-dinos and why are tribal-looking people hunting them? I'll have to read and see more. Microsoft had it's best E3 in years with a strong latter 2015 with Halo 5 and Rise of the Tomb Raider. I would like to see more of ReCore though I'm weary of the Spring 2016 timeframe. No gameplay was shown which is weird for a game supposedly coming out within a year.
I'm still not keen on showing games more than a year away. There were way too many late 2016/sometime-in-2017-or-whenever games announced. Square Enix stating Kingdom Hearts III is "Now in development" for the second E3 is a waste of everyone's time. I'm glad progress has been made, but the game is so far away it's pointless to talk about right now in the middle of 2015.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Stogi on June 17, 2015, 01:21:35 AM
Uncharted 4 looks great. As much as I hate the run and gun elements, I do love how free flowing it is. I just hope the real meat of the game, and by that I mean the exploration and puzzles, is on par with the action set-pieces.
If EAD is The Hardy Boys, than the studio who made ICO, Shadow of Colossus, and now The Last Guardian, is The Alchemist; still suitable for young adults but much more thought provoking. I look forward to buying a PS4 just for this game.
Horizon came off as a fantastic movie idea that would make a decent game, which is the hardest thing to do in gaming; i.e. most games have horrible stories and great gameplay. And while traversing the world may sound exciting at first, that is before we realize we are exploring the first act of WALL-E, the most enticing aspect of the game is it's history and forgive my impatience, but give me a few great characters, particularly a wonderful villain, and just tell me what happens. I hope I'm wrong though, as there is a massive amount of potential. And anyone else noticing the trend of having the main character monologue their thoughts? It was pretty distracting during the hunting portion of the game.
And Hitman.......oh god....so many hilarious moments. Definitely top of the 'Year after release' list.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 17, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
I still want to know what Horizon is. Is it just Monster Hunter but with robot dinosaurs, or is there more to it than that?
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 17, 2015, 01:28:06 AM
I still want to know what Horizon is. Is it just Monster Hunter but with robot dinosaurs, or is there more to it than that?
There are elements of Horizon that reminded me of Enslaved, just like Recore did at MS's conference, what with the "post-apocalyptic world run by animalistic robots" thing where you're guiding a red-haired warrior girl. I'm definitely getting much more of a stealth vibe from this game than Monster Hunter, though (remember, she has to take out the little mech before it alerts the others). That may have just been a moment like a boss fight in an overall Enslaved-style action game.
As for the monologues, that's kind of a Sony "thing." All their characters talk to themselves to project "character" into a scene, except for Kratos (who has no character).
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 17, 2015, 11:56:26 AM
Phil is being weirdly belligerent all over the forums. It's actually kind of funny.
Sony had the bigger surprise announcements even if two of them are niche titles (The Last Guardian and Shenmue 3) and one is a remake. Horizon: Zero Dawn looks nice, but I don't get the robot-dino hunting. Why are there robot-dinos and why are tribal-looking people hunting them? I'll have to read and see more. Microsoft had it's best E3 in years with a strong latter 2015 with Halo 5 and Rise of the Tomb Raider. I would like to see more of ReCore though I'm weary of the Spring 2016 timeframe. No gameplay was shown which is weird for a game supposedly coming out within a year.
I'm still not keen on showing games more than a year away. There were way too many late 2016/sometime-in-2017-or-whenever games announced. Square Enix stating Kingdom Hearts III is "Now in development" for the second E3 is a waste of everyone's time. I'm glad progress has been made, but the game is so far away it's pointless to talk about right now in the middle of 2015.
To me, there needs to be a balance between Nintendo's "we're only showing you what's coming this year/early next year" and Sony's "Hey, look at all this cool **** you want!! Be excited for it when it comes out in 2017!".
Nintendo's conference, I liked enough of the games that I look forward to playing them, but was disappointed there were no announcements of what was on the horizon. Sony's conference, I got hype in the first 30 mins, but then was disappointed as they got into the stuff that's coming out that we already have seen so many times. I get Uncharted is Sony's flagship game coming out in the next year, and the gameplay looked great, but if you're not revved up about that, Batman, Destiny DLC, or No Man's Sky, then there isn't that much they went over in the near future to be excited about. They should have went over upcoming games first, and saved the big explosive trailers for later in the conference.
Oh, and I will say I'm done buying Sony handhelds. The vita is a great handheld system that has been left on the side of the road in a desert without any water. Literally just shown as a 5 second part of an awkwardly placed sizzle reel.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on June 17, 2015, 12:07:38 PM
Nintendo's conference, I liked enough of the games that I look forward to playing them, but was disappointed there were no announcements of what was on the horizon. Sony's conference, I got hype in the first 30 mins, but then was disappointed as they got into the stuff that's coming out that we already have seen so many times. I get Uncharted is Sony's flagship game coming out in the next year, and the gameplay looked great, but if you're not revved up about that, Batman, Destiny DLC, or No Man's Sky, then there isn't that much they went over in the near future to be excited about. They should have went over upcoming games first, and saved the big explosive trailers for later in the conference.
The problem here is that Sony released things ahead of their press conference that might have better fit what you're looking for. For example, I'm really pissed at how Sony pretty much BURIED both the new Ratchet & Clank game & their Tearaway remake. The footage they released of Ratchet last week looked amazing, it has a great price point at $40, and would have been a nice counterpoint to some of the stuff they did show at their conference. Same with Tearaway. But no, let's show Joker's corpse being cremated instead to hype up a game releasing next week on every viable console.
I mean...just...LOOK at this Ratchet footage! And that's seemingly all in-game engine, not CG. And they couldn't even be bothered to devote an extra minute & a half to just re-roll the trailer just to give the game exposure at the biggest event of the year!
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ymeegod on June 17, 2015, 05:36:42 PM
"Oh, and I will say I'm done buying Sony handhelds. The vita is a great handheld system that has been left on the side of the road in a desert without any water"
Yeah, I feel the same way. Overall it's the better handheld system but it's not getting any support from Sony. Things started to go bad when they decided to overcharge on Memory cards and funding both Call Of Duty and Assassin Creed. What a waste of money that was.
Where's my Valkyrie Chronicles 3 Sega. It wasn't localized to the PSP because of privacy but what's stopping it from coming to the VITA at least?
-----------------------------
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 17, 2015, 06:30:16 PM
"I'm done buying Sony handhelds."
And Sony's done making them. That's like saying you're done buying electricity from Enron.
Re: Valkyria Chronicles 3 - Sega can't hear you with all that mobile f2p money clogging their ears.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: nickmitch on June 17, 2015, 09:08:32 PM
I was kinda underwhelmed by the Shenmue 3 announcement. Mostly by the fact that it was a kickstarter. I get that Sony is putting up 90% of the cash, but it still feels half hearted. "Yeah, we'll make this game, IF you beg us for it one more time." Of course it was gonna make goal, but the whole thing just rubbed me the wrong way.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 17, 2015, 09:43:59 PM
Nintendo's conference, I liked enough of the games that I look forward to playing them, but was disappointed there were no announcements of what was on the horizon. Sony's conference, I got hype in the first 30 mins, but then was disappointed as they got into the stuff that's coming out that we already have seen so many times. I get Uncharted is Sony's flagship game coming out in the next year, and the gameplay looked great, but if you're not revved up about that, Batman, Destiny DLC, or No Man's Sky, then there isn't that much they went over in the near future to be excited about. They should have went over upcoming games first, and saved the big explosive trailers for later in the conference.
The problem here is that Sony released things ahead of their press conference that might have better fit what you're looking for. For example, I'm really pissed at how Sony pretty much BURIED both the new Ratchet & Clank game & their Tearaway remake. The footage they released of Ratchet last week looked amazing, it has a great price point at $40, and would have been a nice counterpoint to some of the stuff they did show at their conference. Same with Tearaway. But no, let's show Joker's corpse being cremated instead to hype up a game releasing next week on every viable console.
I mean...just...LOOK at this Ratchet footage! And that's seemingly all in-game engine, not CG. And they couldn't even be bothered to devote an extra minute & a half to just re-roll the trailer just to give the game exposure at the biggest event of the year!
You're right, that's some of the color, personality, and variety that was sorely missing from Sony's conference, and they could have easily cut out the stupid sizzle reel for showing a bit of this game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 17, 2015, 09:49:54 PM
And Sony's done making them. That's like saying you're done buying electricity from Enron.
Perhaps, but there's a point where goodwill is burned enough to where I'll divest myself of Sony gaming altogether. I understand my purchase power isn't great, but I do sometimes make purchasing decisions based on principles over my interests, and I can't feel at least a little slighted based on what's happened to the Vita.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Khushrenada on June 18, 2015, 12:21:12 AM
I understand my purchase power isn't great, but I do sometimes make purchasing decisions based on principles over my interests, and I can't feel at least a little slighted based on what's happened to the Vita.
Like Ian Sane and Nintendo! Careful, my friend. You are walking down a dark path....
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Shaymin on June 18, 2015, 12:27:42 AM
I would've gassed the Batman clip (seriously the game comes out next week) and half of the "ZOMG WE GOT COD" dick-waving, added that trailer in and lengthened the sizzle reel + slapped whoever thought cutting to the bored guy in the audience was a good idea.
There, better conference.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on June 18, 2015, 06:32:22 AM
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/17/the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-won-39-t-follow-the-original-exactly.aspx (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/17/the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-won-39-t-follow-the-original-exactly.aspx) Not sure whether or not to post it here, but because we don't have an actual thread for it....Anyways, FF7 remake isn't going to be exactly the same. Which depending on what they do, I might be more interested. Probably more for Yuffie and Vincent seeing as how they were bonus characters and were sidelined sometimes. And fixing things that didn't make sense.
And then everyone else's concern is Cloud cross-dressing, which supposedly Kotaku went out of its way to ask to make sure it is there. Their attitude about it pisses me off.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 18, 2015, 08:20:51 AM
I understand my purchase power isn't great, but I do sometimes make purchasing decisions based on principles over my interests, and I can't feel at least a little slighted based on what's happened to the Vita.
Like Ian Sane and Nintendo! Careful, my friend. You are walking down a dark path....
Is that what he's takling about in those novels he posts every time I see his name in the forums? Each time I glance at something he writes, I take a brief look, and go "eh, tl;dr".
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 18, 2015, 08:42:44 AM
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/17/the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-won-39-t-follow-the-original-exactly.aspx (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/06/17/the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-won-39-t-follow-the-original-exactly.aspx) Not sure whether or not to post it here, but because we don't have an actual thread for it....Anyways, FF7 remake isn't going to be exactly the same. Which depending on what they do, I might be more interested. Probably more for Yuffie and Vincent seeing as how they were bonus characters and were sidelined sometimes. And fixing things that didn't make sense.
And then everyone else's concern is Cloud cross-dressing, which supposedly Kotaku went out of its way to ask to make sure it is there. Their attitude about it pisses me off.
I want the game as close to the original as possible, but I was under no illusion there'd be "modernizations". At minimum, I expect:
voice acting
tweaks to the battle system
Changes to the dialogue - probably not all a bad thing, some of the text was pretty cringey. Maybe even a pared-down.
Those are things i'd personally be ok with, i'd also be more than happy if they gave Tifa a breast reduction. My only concern is that they mess with Cloud to the point where he's an emo the entire story. I know there are bouts of him seeming so, but my recollection of the story is that during most of it, he's fairly self-confident and trying to be a leader.
Regarding the cross-dressing - at face value, it's a silly thing to say you need in a game, but it's a fun & catchy way they make you solve a problem, and also a good way they could set up jokes about how effeminate Cloud looks. I'd be fine if they make changes to how you get the items, but i'd be a little disappointed if they omitted it. In an odd way, it's an iconic part of the game.
That said, this is exactly why Square-Enix waited so long to pull the FF7 remake trigger. I doubt it had anything to do with not being able to like theyve said in the past, and more that the game has a rabid fanbase that you'll anger someone in the process with every change you make.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on June 18, 2015, 08:50:21 AM
As far as Tifa goes, I expect her to look like she did in Advent Children in which she was far more modestly endowed.
I'm expecting a complete makeover with full 3D backgrounds instead of the prendered ones. Basically, the way Cloud was walking through Midgar in the trailer is what to expect. Essentially, the only things that won't change are the overall story and the basics of the gameplay. Square Enix probably won't force players to watch all 37 minutes of Knights of the Round every time.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 18, 2015, 08:57:14 AM
As far as Tifa goes, I expect her to look like she did in Advent Children in which she was far more modestly endowed.
I'm expecting a complete makeover with full 3D backgrounds instead of the prendered ones. Basically, the way Cloud was walking through Midgar in the trailer is what to expect. Essentially, the only things that won't change are the overall story and the basics of the gameplay. Square Enix probably won't force players to watch all 37 minutes of Knights of the Round every time.
And that's exactly the kind of update the game needs. Something that gives players the option to speed-up or skip thigs that look awesome at first, but elongate battles unnecessarily as you continue spamming it + mime against Emerald Weapon.
That's really what'll be make or break about the game to me. The changes need to be things that improve the flow of the game without breaking the materia system or story much.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on June 18, 2015, 09:41:31 AM
I enjoyed the cross-dressing section because it was silly. Felt repetitive doing it more then once, but funny first time around. I'm just irritated by people's attitude towards it where it is their biggest, and I mean BIGGEST, concern. To the point that if they did make a change to it, then they would not buy the game. I mean seriously, a hour long process is what makes or breaks it for you? If that is the case, you want this game for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: lolmonade on June 18, 2015, 09:58:07 AM
My guess is the rabid fans are using the cross-dressing segment as a lynch-pin into expectations of how much will change with the game. It's a silly little thing that they've focused on, but maybe they are concerned if Square would remove that from the game, then all bets are off as to what else they'll tamper with for the sake of making the game thematically different.
It is probably one of the more bizarre parts of the game, that's for sure.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on June 18, 2015, 10:17:19 AM
I think they are just being irrational my self. *shrugs*
Story wise, I just want them to expand and that is it. No changing anything to drastic except for the dialogue that didn't make sense. More places to go, bosses, to fight, summons, etc, etc. Maybe fight the Sapphire Weapon and don't have it die?
How Cloud's personality will turn out, I have no idea. SE really like him as "emo edgey badass" which he was nothing like in the game, even when he was insane.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on June 18, 2015, 01:04:42 PM
FF7 may be the big hit but actually FF8 is the start of the modern Square style. FF7 actually has more in common with the FF games that came before it then the ones that followed. With the exception of FF9, which is an intentional throwback, the character style of all the main FF games from 8 onwards look like they could be from the same game. FF7's graphics look more anime in style, like the in-game graphics of the 2D games. And this is going to enforce that kind of "standard" post-FF8 design style on a game that didn't really have it. It might not work as well as one would hope and some of the goofier stuff like Cloud's crossdressing may look weird.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 29, 2015, 11:04:10 PM
So the PS4 is at over 30 million sales, still outselling the PS2 (the best selling console of all time). Could they do it again? http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/10/29/ps4-sales-still-outpacing-ps2-closing-in-on-30-million (that's as of last month, I've sure they've sold 700,000 this month)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on October 29, 2015, 11:13:48 PM
Personally I don't think it'll have the longevity that PS2 had with it's DVD capabilities, but I would love to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on October 30, 2015, 10:21:17 AM
I think DVD only gave them an edge for the first year or two then after that it was a non-factor. If they are doing this well now and DVD isn't at all an issue (it doesn't even play DVD's without an update) then I think it could manage to outsell the PS2. It has the hype for sure and with FF7 remake coming, plus all the new games they are working on. If they could find a way to get BC with PS1 an PS2 fully compatible then they would have a real shot too.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Soren on November 03, 2015, 11:33:58 AM
Welp...I just bought a PS4...
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on November 04, 2015, 04:18:31 PM
Might have wanted to wait until next Saturday. $299 w/ free game at Sam's Club.
I got the Uncharted bundle for 250 after trading in my PS3. Worth it for me.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ymeegod on December 06, 2015, 12:05:35 AM
Wow, that PSX, Sony's going for the kill.
Some more PC remakes of Tim Schafer games plus two Psychonauts games planned (one VR and other being funded kick starter).
Nioh, a njnja gaiden type game by Team Ninja, looked great. Hopefully Team Ninja leaves out the QTE this time.
Ni No Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom by Level 5--hell yeah, Sony's answer to Pokémon, loved the first one (well actually the second one since there was an Japanese DS game that was never released in the states).
King of Fighters XIV. I'm not a big fighting fan but Sony's locking down some serious fighting muscle this gen, first it took SFV, now KoF, and some say Tekken 7 is going be exclusive?
And lastly you have all of Sony's inhouse games like Uncharted 4, Ratchet and Clank, MLB the Show, and all those VR demos.
Damn, easily the best PSX in years.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on December 06, 2015, 12:13:35 AM
Don't forget PS2 games on PS4 with trophy support, even if the games are overpriced and it's B.S. that games you already own on PS3 don't get discounted for the PS4 version.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on December 07, 2015, 01:59:51 PM
So Final Fantasy VII remake is going to be episodic. I'm sorry, but this is hilarious for me.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on December 07, 2015, 02:02:27 PM
I love that the obnoxious, whiny FF7 fanboys who bitched for years about demanding a remake are finally getting exactly what they deserve.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: MagicCow64 on December 07, 2015, 02:17:41 PM
I think they're also going to discover just how timeless the story, scenario, and characters actually are when those elements are dumped out into the 2018-2025 video game market.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Adrock on December 07, 2015, 10:11:20 PM
I don't get what's so funny about the game being episodic. Is it because people have to pay more?
I wonder if there will be a retail version. The remake looks cool, but I know it's something I probably wouldn't play because I'm lazy and it takes me forever to get around to games (especially RPGs). I just finally got around to making some progress in Majora's Mask 3D.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Louieturkey on December 08, 2015, 12:27:38 AM
Based on Cloud joining SSB, I think it'll eventually get released for the NX. Or not.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Triforce Hermit on December 08, 2015, 08:43:50 AM
When gamers see the word "episodic", they tend to panic. Not to mention the concept of this FF7 remake being episodic has so much wrong. If SE had put out a quality FF game JRPG in the past few years, I might have more faith that they could pull this out of their ass. But hey, the terrible fanbase wants to gouge their eyes out over this. That is what I think is funny.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 08, 2015, 11:54:01 AM
I lost interest in the game when I heard they were revamping the battle system. Episodic on the other hand isn't a big deal because the game was like that already in a way, it spanned 3 discs and each disc had it's own portion of the story, playing it that way might be the only way to relive the retro feel of this game.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2015, 01:42:47 PM
I find these days, especially with Japanese companies, that if you want some old series or game revisited there is a major risk it won't be in the way you would like. Making it episodic and changing the battle system to something real time? Yeah, that's typical modern tinkering done to attract a modern audience that doesn't even give a **** about the source material in the first place. The only thing missing was to make it mobile and change the setting so that it takes place in a high school and the female characters clothes fall off to show damage and their boobs get bigger as they level up.
You can ask for a sequel to this or a remake of that but you have no idea how the company is going to monkey paw your request. Square Enix ain't aiming for FF VII fans with this. They're aiming for a contemporary Japanese audience and that audience doesn't jive as well with Western tastes as it did in the 90's.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 08, 2015, 05:26:34 PM
I don't think that's in any way specific to Japan. Any attempt to bring back an old property has to walk a fine line between changing too little and making alterations that upset the people you were trying to appeal to in the first place
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 08, 2015, 05:35:00 PM
This is different than revisiting an old retro game long forgotten though, this is an iconic game in a long running series that gets new editions all the time. Square knows who the audience is for this and they also know that we are all going to buy it no matter how much the collective internet might bitch about it.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 05, 2016, 09:24:43 PM
PS4 sitting at "over 35.9 million" consoles sold. Pretty impressive.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 29, 2016, 08:41:55 PM
And now EA has accidentally revealed that PS4 has sold almost *double* what Xbox One has. Hell, even the Wii U doesn't look as bad at this point. Well, actually it still looks horrible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lJvZDslOs
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: riftzzz on January 30, 2016, 05:44:48 AM
can't wait :/
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: broodwars on January 30, 2016, 03:14:55 PM
And now EA has accidentally revealed that PS4 has sold almost *double* what Xbox One has. Hell, even the Wii U doesn't look as bad at this point. Well, actually it still looks horrible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lJvZDslOs
Yeah...I don't think this makes the Wii U look any better since it's only sold around 15 million units (compared to Xbone's roughly 19 million and PS4's 36 million) with one more year on the market.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 31, 2016, 09:46:49 AM
Unless Wii U completely turned it around in the last three months, it's closer to around 12-13 million. One thing that really sticks out though is that PS4 still hasn't caught up to Wii U in Japan, so that just means in the other regions it's bitch-slapping Nintendo by greater than a 3:1 ratio.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Ian Sane on February 01, 2016, 12:48:57 PM
I think it is rather telling that after a generation of wacky controllers (not just motion control; musical instrument games were big as well) and casual pandering that Sony was the one company that just released a conventional console seemingly designed for dedicated gamers and has mopped the floor with everyone else's ass.
It's like mainstream rock music tastes in the 80s and 90s. In the 80s everything was so clean and polished and corporate so in the 90s the exact opposite trend took hold where everything was dirty and rough and artsy. A decade of aggressive pandering to the mainstream resulted in a bubbling resentment underneath that suddenly exploded and completely flipped consumer trends overnight. Same thing here. For all the mainstream success of Wii waggle and Kinect, those that didn't like it REALLY didn't like it and wanted nothing to do with anything like that next time around. So Nintendo has the outdated-hardware/wacky-controller routine again and MS charges an extra $100 for mandatory Kinect and, surprise, those that resented such concepts last gen all soundly rejected both of them.
I don't know if it was just a happy accident but it's like Sony observed the casual vs. core feuding of last gen, realized the strong incompatibility of the two groups, and determined correctly which one to cater towards. Hint: not the one for which videogames are a fad.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 01, 2016, 01:11:11 PM
I don't think the PS4 was a response to motion controls in any way, shape or form, it was just Sony releasing the same system they always do except without the dumb, crippling flaws of the PS3 had.
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 01, 2016, 02:06:20 PM
I don't think the PS4 was a response to motion controls in any way, shape or form, it was just Sony releasing the same system they always do except without the dumb, crippling flaws of the PS3 had.
Exactly. The PS2 sold close to 160 million systems by itself, while the PS3/360 combined did a little more then that. If Sony hadn't gone full retard with 599.99 US Dollars the PS3 would have easily crossed the 100 million mark by itself. This gen Microsoft is the one who fucked up bigtime so Sony is basically gaining much of the audience they once had back.
Not really sure who Ian's talking about because the non-motion control gaming still existed just fine last gen. Of course most of the industry died as a result since the budgets on the non-motion control systems went insane bankrupting the majority. That's why the games that sold the best on the PS3/360 last gen are literally the exact games that are selling the best on the PS4/One. Anyone that doesn't make an insanely popular dudebro shooter, buggy open world grindfest, or yearly sports license is gone now or can only make games for mobile devices because that's all they can afford. Oh don't worry, fans forced to spend their money on Kickstarter will get us a new Shenmue in 2021 so everything's just fine. The PS4 sure saved gaming from the evil casuals alright. ::)
Title: Re: PlayStation4 - News/Rumor/Speculation - Over 1 Million Sold on Day 1
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 01, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
I think Luigi Dude missed the point, waggle vs. traditional controls had nothing to do with those companies that went out of business, that was all the coming of the iPad that erased the casual market from the console space and all those smaller companies that only made casual games or licensed garbage were the ones to go under. I guess if you don't like Metal Gear, Castlevania, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Assassin's Creed, Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, Mortal Kombat, Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Dexter, Sonic, Ninja Gaiden, Tomb Raider, Dragon Age, Diablo, Zone of Enders, Tekken, God of War, Prince of Persia, Batman, Bayonetta*, Gran Turismo, Fable, and The Last of Us and would rather play Nicktoons, Disney Princess, bad movie based knock off, 1000th Tetris clone, mini game collection, and the only casual game worth mentioning, Bomberman, than yes last generation was terrible for traditional gaming.
Wii was a damn fluke anyone that still thinks it was going to save the industry, by the way most of the companies that did go under made **** cash grabs for the Wii too, well I guess you are as delusional as the boys at Nintendo. Unless you are just one of them undercover which makes no sense so I retract that theory.
What hurt most of those publishers was NOT the shift to HD and the rising cost of production, the smart ones are thriving on the digital channels like XBLA, PSN, Steam, and eShop. The ones that failed were the same shitty companies that kept making the same shitty cash in's every generation with one or two token games here and there to appease fans of some long forgotten genre/franchise while the companies that knew not to jump into the iPad/Android/Wii marketplace survived because they know, as does Hollywood, that big budgets can bring in big profits. Just ask Disney who spent four billion dollars on a movie that is smashing box office records left and right how if you invest the right money the audience will come back. Or ask Sony who is investing their entire fortune on PS4 and it is handily paying off. Yeah I guess Sony should be worried that their console is clearing out the garbage developers and only leaving behind the top quality companies who have the money to make the games the market is asking for, because if the market wasn't asking for those types of games then they would reject them you know that right? It is simple economics if people were tired of Call of Duty, Elder Scrolls, and Madden then they would just stop buying them. oh right those games aren't made for a Nintendo console so they are ****, like Bayonetta was **** until it showed up on Wii U then the Nintendo faithful showed up to sings it's praises as the "hard core" game gamers needed to "bring hard core gamers back to Wii U" as if one game was going to erase all the negative press of the countless games NOT on the console.
Okay sure, those games all SUCK until they are released on a Nintendo console then they are touted as "proof" Nintendo matters. No, waggle was a double edged sword, it brought in the casuals, the grandmas , the budget conscious family with kids, and the die hard Nintendo faithful. The casuals, budget family with kids, and the grandmas all got ipads and forgot what Nintendo was, the die hard Nintendo faithful are too small a group to matter anymore, are shrinking each generation, and are more sharply divide on everything than American politicians are.
