Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 664005 times)

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Offline KeyBilly

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It could be that the controller for the NX will have a touchscreen background, but still be more of a traditional controller than a Gamepad.  There could be some ancillary backwards compatibility, but it would be clearly distinct from the Wii U.  With the screen off, it would have the ergonomics and battery life of a standard controller.

When I first heard of a touchscreen controller for the Wii U, it seemed like a logical evolution.  It adds the ability to use custom touch controls and displays, but keeps the benefits of a traditional controller over a phone or tablet.  The Gamepad, though, was a clunky execution of the idea. similar to the strange N64 controller's design based around the analog stick.  The NX might have a more practical and streamlined execution that will set the standard for other companies to follow.

Offline Ian Sane

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Nintendo has tried to sell us on this idea that a nifty controller feature will inspire awesome game ideas since the DS and, frankly, they've failed to prove this theory.  90% of the time they either ignore the feature entirely or they shoehorn it in and you're left with some awkward-controlling gimmick game.  Even a big hit like Wii Sports is a pretty much a tech demo.

I think they're full of **** and their true intention is to mask a weak effort by passing off gimmicks as innovation.  But even if they are devoted to this theory - it has failed!  They've been putting screens on controllers since the Gamecube/GBA feature and they still have done little with it.  So what great idea is there that they could have used years ago that requires a separate screen that they for whatever reason just sat on this whole time?  If the concept was truly capable of inspiring all these great ideas we would have seen them already.  The great ideas have been sparse because the concept just isn't all that great.  Same with motion controls.

They should stop with this simply because doing so would indicate a positive change in their approach.  If they're still pushing gimmick controls then they're also going to compromise this and that and hope that the fancy controller will save the day.  And if they do that they're fucked.  No one but the most devoted Nintendo fanatic will put up with the slightest bullshit from Nintendo.  You know that if they put in some neat feature in the controller that they'll skimp on something else that's actually important.  That's the whole damn plan.  If you can fool people with a shiny gimmick you can cut corners!

Nintendo should just make a conventional console and make great games for it.  That's what made them a big deal in the first place.  And when they're not forcing weird controls they still make great games.  They don't NEED to shoehorn in dumb gimmicks to make interesting or enjoyable games.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Nintendo has tried to sell us on this idea that a nifty controller feature will inspire awesome game ideas since the DS and, frankly, they've failed to prove this theory.  90% of the time they either ignore the feature entirely or they shoehorn it in and you're left with some awkward-controlling gimmick game.  Even a big hit like Wii Sports is a pretty much a tech demo.

I think they're full of **** and their true intention is to mask a weak effort by passing off gimmicks as innovation.  But even if they are devoted to this theory - it has failed!  They've been putting screens on controllers since the Gamecube/GBA feature and they still have done little with it.  So what great idea is there that they could have used years ago that requires a separate screen that they for whatever reason just sat on this whole time?  If the concept was truly capable of inspiring all these great ideas we would have seen them already.  The great ideas have been sparse because the concept just isn't all that great.  Same with motion controls.

They should stop with this simply because doing so would indicate a positive change in their approach.  If they're still pushing gimmick controls then they're also going to compromise this and that and hope that the fancy controller will save the day.  And if they do that they're fucked.  No one but the most devoted Nintendo fanatic will put up with the slightest bullshit from Nintendo.  You know that if they put in some neat feature in the controller that they'll skimp on something else that's actually important.  That's the whole damn plan.  If you can fool people with a shiny gimmick you can cut corners!

Nintendo should just make a conventional console and make great games for it.  That's what made them a big deal in the first place.  And when they're not forcing weird controls they still make great games.  They don't NEED to shoehorn in dumb gimmicks to make interesting or enjoyable games.

And yet when a Game Developer does take the time to include the control as a key mechanic to the game you get an amazing experience...like Zack and Wiki.  I loved that game, and it deserved a sequel.  So much fun.

However, you are right that most developers won't spend that extra time to make it right.

Offline Adrock

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Releasing an updated Gamepad absolutely should happen, but it shouldn't be the entire point of NX. It should be "Look, we have this." Not "LOOK! WE HAVE THIS!" Marketing shouldn't focus on it. If a game requires (or is even enhanced significantly) by the GamePad, the game's marketing should advertise it.

The key is to drive the cost down and sell it for a price people don't mind paying (e.g. $50 to $60) which means the Pro Controller would naturally have to be cheaper too (e.g. $30). Rethinking pricing is something Nintendo should be doing anyway because that could give it an advantage.

Still, I don't know if the GamePad is something that should be packed in with consoles. Sure, it would be beneficial to have it in as many people's hands for games like a sequel to Mario Maker. At the same time, Mario Maker is a big enough title that it would sell the controller. And Nintendo could also offer a controller bundle (that would be stupidly difficult to find)

Offline Spak-Spang

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If Nintendo or any company would consider lowering the prices on items that are typically being price gouged then I would reconsider getting back into gaming.

I want games to be $40.00.  Drop the CGI movies and voice acting if you need to do...I don't want it anyway.  I just want to play some fun games.  Also Controllers need to be cheaper.  I want to play local games with my friends...it should not cost me over $200.00 to do this.  30 dollars for a full Wii controller should be fair...and 25 to 30 dollars for a Pro Controller should be manageable.  Maybe more if it is wireless or comes with a battery.

Offline Luigi Dude

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I'd imagine Nintendo wants to include a touchscreen controller for Wii U backwords compatibly and to continue selling DS and 3DS tiles to future generations on the Virtual Console.  As long as they can keep cost down this time so the controller doesn't **** the NX price for the rest of it's lifespan like the Gamepad did the Wii U, they gain more for being able to keep selling older games to people on the NX then releasing a system with just a basic controller would.
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Offline Evan_B

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I would like to mention that Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword are flawed experiences for reasons UNRELATED to their control schemes, which are novel and make them more fun.
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Honestly I would prefer they make a console that pretends Wii/Wii U never even happened including NOT having backwards compatibility and no more Mii's. But that is not going to happen so they had better make the rest of the experience as worth it and as cost effective as possible because Wii U was such a hard sell.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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I I disagree about Miis.  I love Miis and when used properly Miis are a fantastic addition to any game.  Sure you can say look at them...they don't scream HD.  But who cares they are cute and a perfect personal Avatar.  If Nintendo could figure out a way to create a Mii game that lets you play in the world of games you already own that could be cool.  Like a Mii Adventure App and when you buy the new Mario game you get 2 Mario themed playground levels for your Mii.  Heck you can even program ALL Amiibos to be able to play in that world with the play mechanics from their games...it could be fun.

Offline Soren

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Miis are great.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:14:18 PM by Soren »
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Offline Ian Sane

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I associate Miis with an era of Nintendo I don't care for so if it was up to me and I was catering things to my own personal preference I would get rid of them and pretend they never existed.  I suppose their could be concern that the Miis are associated with casual gaming and that continuing to have them will turn off hardcore gamers.

But can you think of a more iconic character avatar in videogaming?  I can't.  Considering how important online gaming is today and the need to identify players online I figure you need some sort of avatar system in place so why not use the one you already have?

What Nintendo shouldn't do is give the Miis a prominent place in games where they don't fit.  And they shouldn't make games like Nintendo Land or Wii Party U with the Miis as the main characters and expect them to be system-selling killer apps because the time where they were suitable for that kind of role has passed.  Personally I would use them strictly as avatars for player profiles.  They're only appropriate for casual games and why make casual games when that audience doesn't buy dedicated videogame systems anymore?

And Nintendo should absolutely not reference old Nintendo IP in "Mii form" if there is no legitimate game in that series on the horizon.  Nintendo probably thinks that F-Zero references in Nintendo Land are something that F-Zero fans enjoy.  No.  That's seen as a "**** you, there's no real F-Zero game so eat this **** instead".  Metroid: Federation Force pissed off the fanbase for the same reason.  You either make games in the series or you don't.  No fan wants some spinoff or a themed mini-game in an unrelated title when the series they love is otherwise dormant.  Stuff like that is to compliment new releases, not act as a replacement.

I wouldn't mind them if I could use my console without being forced to create a Mii and look at them all the damn time. Nintendo is bad about giving people choices instead it is always their way or nothing. Sony made an effort with Home but realized it wasn't for everybody and didn't make it mandatory like Mii's are. They were a novelty that has worn off.
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Offline ShyGuy

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What they need to do is take my Mii and attach him to my new and improved NNID

Quote
And Nintendo should absolutely not reference old Nintendo IP in "Mii form" if there is no legitimate game in that series on the horizon.  Nintendo probably thinks that F-Zero references in Nintendo Land are something that F-Zero fans enjoy.  No.  That's seen as a "**** you, there's no real F-Zero game so eat this **** instead".  Metroid: Federation Force pissed off the fanbase for the same reason.  You either make games in the series or you don't.  No fan wants some spinoff or a themed mini-game in an unrelated title when the series they love is otherwise dormant.  Stuff like that is to compliment new releases, not act as a replacement.

That was how I felt about the Smash Bros. and Mario Party games for the longest time, they new what people wanted out of a Mario game but instead of doing it they kept trying to stick Mario into games where he didn't belong. It was frustrating it took them so long to figure out New Super Mario Bros. and it shouldn't have had to be branded as "new" just to get people's attention.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Remove R.O.B. from Smash until we get a new Gyromite!!

Offline Triforce Hermit

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I don't like Miis and I hate having to have one. If they want to keep it, fine. Don't force it though. It is a major annoyance for me.



I want games to be $40.00.  Drop the CGI movies and voice acting if you need to do...I don't want it anyway.
But Zelda games still cost $60 without any of those  ;)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 09:57:39 AM by Triforce Hermit »
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Offline ThePerm

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I like Miis. It makes iconography when saving efficient. My mii looks just like my forum Avatar.

Ideally for me, I would want Nintendo to just keep the same controller as Wii U. Some stability would be nice. What Wii U lacks is power. The new controller should be dual touch though. I want to pinch and zoom when necessary. If you really think about it? Why is Nintendo constantly changing its controllers? That means they never really trusted the last control scheme was really as innovative and revolutionary as they thought. "Try our new controller, it will change everything!" "Were getting rid of that, try this new thing!"

I think both the Wii and Wii U interfaces are good interfaces. I think Nintendo should just make a more powerful wii U with some improvements. They need to call it something totally different though. Wii U was too confusing for consumers. I'm sure 2/3 of people still think its an add on for wii. Hell when they announced it I was confused for a few minutes. Or at least I saw where people could be confused.
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I like Miis. It makes iconography when saving efficient. My mii looks just like my forum Avatar.

Ideally for me, I would want Nintendo to just keep the same controller as Wii U. Some stability would be nice. What Wii U lacks is power. The new controller should be dual touch though. I want to pinch and zoom when necessary. If you really think about it? Why is Nintendo constantly changing its controllers? That means they never really trusted the last control scheme was really as innovative and revolutionary as they thought. "Try our new controller, it will change everything!" "Were getting rid of that, try this new thing!"

I think both the Wii and Wii U interfaces are good interfaces. I think Nintendo should just make a more powerful wii U with some improvements. They need to call it something totally different though. Wii U was too confusing for consumers. I'm sure 2/3 of people still think its an add on for wii. Hell when they announced it I was confused for a few minutes. Or at least I saw where people could be confused.


I don't think it is so much they have no faith in their controllers I think it is a matter of them truly being totally clueless as to what they are doing wrong.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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I think it is neither.

I think Nintendo believes Graphics are not a selling point to a console.  Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition to a new console.  I personally agree with this philosophy...if there isn't something truly substantial to add then just adding more power to make prettier games isn't enough.  Now, there are times that just the added graphical level adds more than just pretty pictures.  For instance the jump from N64/PS era to PS2 and Gamecube era the graphics had a real impact on not just the visuals but how the player is effected by the game because of the visuals. 

So Nintendo believes that you need more.  Well how you interact with the game is more.  Wii motion controls were flawed, but it did bring a brand new experience to gaming.  The DS and 3DS were flawed, but also brought some new experience to how you played games.  The Wii U, did not bring enough compelling new experiences to sell the audience on the controller...but it could have worked...the market is fickle and it is hard to guess what people you like.


Offline Triforce Hermit

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The game(s) should be delivering that experience, not the controller.
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Offline Enner

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And we all know the difficulty or reluctance of having truly new experiences from games in the console space. Of course, it depends on what you're looking for.

While there's nothing wrong with the sticks, pads, buttons, and triggers of old, new types of control can open avenues previously thought impossible. The Wii Motion+ could have been great as a 3D, six axes manipulator, but it was not meant to be. Maybe Sony's Dreams will take that up.

That said, even I feel pressed to hope for something a bit more conventional when it comes to the controls or controllers for NX. Outside of a handful of games, Nintendo's software have been best suited to the sticks and buttons.

I think it is neither.

I think Nintendo believes Graphics are not a selling point to a console.  Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition to a new console.  I personally agree with this philosophy...if there isn't something truly substantial to add then just adding more power to make prettier games isn't enough.  Now, there are times that just the added graphical level adds more than just pretty pictures.  For instance the jump from N64/PS era to PS2 and Gamecube era the graphics had a real impact on not just the visuals but how the player is effected by the game because of the visuals. 

So Nintendo believes that you need more.  Well how you interact with the game is more.  Wii motion controls were flawed, but it did bring a brand new experience to gaming.  The DS and 3DS were flawed, but also brought some new experience to how you played games.  The Wii U, did not bring enough compelling new experiences to sell the audience on the controller...but it could have worked...the market is fickle and it is hard to guess what people you like.


But that is YOU, you are the minority, Nintendo has gotten stuck catering too, the vast majority just want their games to be bigger and better, they do want more game play experiences but damn Sony has been innovating in that arena for over two decades and they basically use the same controller NINTENDO invented and just perfected it. Why couldn't Nintendo perfect their own controller instead of letting their competitor who does both innovative new gameplay ideas, and bigger and better graphics while sticking to the truly tested tried and true controller people WANT. Nintendo thinks they have to abandon what worked last gen and start over fresh every time instead of keeping what worked and only adding to it, they are the only company to remove features from their last gen to their next gen all the others have only added never taken away. Unless it was something minor like CD support there are not enough people in the world left who care about.
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Offline Ian Sane

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I think Nintendo believes Graphics are not a selling point to a console.  Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition to a new console.  I personally agree with this philosophy...if there isn't something truly substantial to add then just adding more power to make prettier games isn't enough.  Now, there are times that just the added graphical level adds more than just pretty pictures.  For instance the jump from N64/PS era to PS2 and Gamecube era the graphics had a real impact on not just the visuals but how the player is effected by the game because of the visuals. 

So Nintendo believes that you need more.  Well how you interact with the game is more.  Wii motion controls were flawed, but it did bring a brand new experience to gaming.  The DS and 3DS were flawed, but also brought some new experience to how you played games.  The Wii U, did not bring enough compelling new experiences to sell the audience on the controller...but it could have worked...the market is fickle and it is hard to guess what people you like.

It's interesting that you say stuff like "Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition" and "Nintendo believes that you need more".  Nintendo didn't offer "more" with the Wii or Wii U.  They substituted industry standard hardware power for a fancy controller.  The Wii is practically the Gamecube all over again with a different controller.  If Nintendo offered conventional hardware AND a nifty controller I wouldn't give a **** unless it raised the price way above the competition or the controller was so restrictive that it ruined the controls of the games (Wii controller lost functionality but the Wii U merely added to the standard controller design; one of the few things Nintendo did right with it).  What I don't like is the tradeoff because it completely destroys any chance of having half-decent third party support.

The whole concept is like theoretical ideology.  For all of Nintendo's talk about how this is the more innovative way to go the resulting games are pretty cliché stuff with the controller gimmick thrown in.  There is a reason why everyone made fun of the disproportionate amount of 2D platformers on the Wii U because they're talking about innovation and they're giving us stuff that would have been seen as retro on the N64!  The Wii was pretty a generation of Nintendo doing mostly the same stuff they've done for decades but with button presses mapped to controller shakes.  When I play games on the other consoles I'm blown away by how damn OLD Nintendo's new games feel in comparison.  Most of their games feel small and quaint, like the Cube/PS2/Xbox era was the furthest they were comfortable going.  And in the case of Mario it's like Super Mario 64 is too advanced for them and they have to go backwards with these NSMB games.

Nintendo is all talk, no action.  This "controller over graphics" is at best some naïve ideology that doesn't work in practice but I'm pretty cynical so I think it's just an outright con.  They don't WANT to keep with the times so they're hoping to fool everyone with this controller nonsense and it worked on the Wii because they appealed to a non-gaming crowd that isn't familiar enough with standard gaming conventions to notice.  Regardless of what it is, Nintendo can't feed us this crap because everyone knows it is crap.  If you're going to be stale at least be stale like the rest of the industry and follow the conventions.

Offline Spak-Spang

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I think you misunderstood.  I was telling my opinion.  I was speaking on behave of Nintendo's ideals.  I was remembering quotes from Nintendo employees and elaborating on them. 

Whether you agree with Nintendo's ideals or not, that is what Nintendo believes.  But I will say you have to have innovation in all 3 areas, games first, hardware second...and hardware innovation is both controller/user interaction with the game and hardware as in graphical and CPU power.  The problem is Nintendo hasn't really given Nintendo users the complete package.  Maybe with the DS and 3DS Nintendo has come close...but the biggest part of the user interaction Nintendo neglects is the online user experience...but this is a pretty big oversight. 

I wonder if the Wii console had a great online experience similar to Xbox live, and graphics and hardware that made porting easier if the Wii would not have done even better.  Nintendo's biggest mistake with the Wii U was the tablet controller.  I keep on wondering if Nintendo didn't sink so much R&D in that and priced the system the same, but include more RAM faster CPU and GPU closer to the eventual PS4 and Xbox One, and pushed for more refined Motion controls what would have happened? 

And Ian for some reason Nintendo decided the easiest way to make money was to play of nostalgia...this is what lead to cheap 2D sequels...and they are good games, but the are more supplemental games and should not have been the main games for release in that year.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the Nostalgia thing, look at Hollywood, walk down any toy isle in any store, everything that sells right now is based heavily on Nostalgia, the two biggest movies at the box office this year are nothing BUT nostalgia. In fact a lot of what is driving PS4 sales is the nostalgia factor, not just for the games but also the whole system reminds people of a time when Playstation just got it. I went into Wal-Mart disgusted at their selection of over priced card games, not just the prices but the awful design and was sad I wouldn't be buying my family the Uno and Skip-Bo games I wanted, went across the street to Target and they had, what do you know "retro" card decks on a shelf right next to all the "retro" toys I was looking for, including light brite and etch a sketch. retro and nostalgia is what sells right now, that will might wear off but I am not so sure. And for what it is worth the nostalgia factor alone was what got me to get a Wii U, it was NES Remix, Hyrule Warriors, New Super Mario Bros., DKC:TP, and Super Mario World that sold me, not Bayonetta that I played and didn't like on Playstation, or Wonderful 101 that reminds me too much of Disney, or Zombie U that looked like just another soulless zombie game.
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