Topic: The legend of zelda remake for wii?

[Link_]

i was just thinking that a remake of the legend of zelda would be nice,in full 3d and the TP engine.everything from burning the tree for level 8 to  blowing the flute for level 7,with aded cinemas and soundtrack.

[MarioAllStar]

That would take a lot of time for Nintendo to make--time better spent on the next Zelda game (although I do admit that I am a sucker for remakes). If they gave The Legend of Zelda a facelift, I think a 2D upgrade (in the style of BS Zelda or Four Sword Adventures) would be more appropriate.

[BlkPaladin]

Well Capcom was going to orginally redo the Zelda Disk Drive games in the three titles that were slated for the Gameboy Color, maybe Nintendo could outsource it. (Though the game was axed to get the new games out.)

[KDR_11k]

Maybe they could just create a 3d representation of every tile with minor changes to make it look better and eat less power for e.g. screens that are filled with trees. That shouldn't take too long.

[18 Days]

well it is the 10th aniversary of OOT in two years...

[Infernal Monkey]

The boring blur-fest toilet themed TP engine can burn in hell. Wind Waker engine.

[Svevan]

I just started typing this at 2 AM and couldn't stop. BE WARNED THIS IS A RANT:

A 3-D version of either Legend of Zelda or LttP would trump any of the current Zelda games - why? World map design. Nintendo have completely changed how they treat Hyrule in the jump between 2-D and 3-D, and personally I am TIRED of bare fields with lame enemies. These aren't fun, no matter how beautiful. Compared to the world in Shadow of the Colossus, 3-D Zelda overworlds feel small, cramped, and linear. Nintendo tells stories linearly so I suppose they think that an overworld should be point A to B with large open areas (with no objectives) stuffed in between. The area that has most impressed me so far is Lake Hylia in Twilight Princess. Other than that, Hyrule keeps getting prettier with no gameplay improvement.

Imagine Link to the Past in 3-D. You'd pass a small grove of trees, climb a small hill and come to a library with an ancient book. Around the bend from this library you'd find a bustling town, but directly past it is a forest. Go east from the forest and there is a graveyard and a pathway to both a lake and a castle. These elements are all combined rather than separated.

OoT, MM, and TP all have overworlds that amount to nothing but this:

***---------0------****
**--------------------***
*0---------------------**
*------------------------0
*------------------------*
**---------------------**
***---------------0--***

0 = important, cool looking thing
---- = bare open field

I think the reason Shadow of the Colossus was able to pull this off is because it was entirely about the aesthetic nature of the world - the game's focus was on the barrenness and immensity of the world you were in. It maintained consistency by having you start from point A and get to point B on a linear track, but that linear track was the light from your sword, NOT fake dirt walls that impeded your progress. You could go anywhere, but most places just weren't important. If Zelda could take that world and inhabit it with random people, shops, houses, dungeons, etc, all in one seamless (read: no loading) environment, then it would probably be the best Zelda ever. As it stands, Hyrule Field is just filler in between exciting stuff.  

edit: Better wording on the SotC/Zelda comparison. Zelda's gameplay is diverse. It is about many people and places that need saving - Link is the courageous one who must save the world. This is an active participation in the world - ergo, Zelda gameplay is puzzle solving, dialogue, interaction with the overworld, combat, etc. In SotC, the gameplay is stripped to bare elements only - half of the gameplay is merely horse riding, while the other half is fighting the Colossi. The character of Wander participates passively in the world until the Colossi appear. It was an aesthetic choice to make the "forsaken" landscape completely empty, and a wise one because the world itself becomes a plot element that impacts our understanding of the Colossi and our feelings about the mystery unfolding in front of us. Hyrule is meant to be Link's playground - with myriad items and skills by which he must save the multitude people and places, there has got to be plenty to do. Why make Hyrule Field empty if it is the core of his purpose?

Nintendo was afraid to do what Sony did with Shadow of the Colossus, which was make a giant overworld where nothing happens. They believe (and perhaps rightly so) in an overworld that is active - yet they do so only halfway by introducing weak, meaningless enemies that we don't care about and can merely fly past. An element like a bridge or a cavern can be inhabited by so much more than generic enemies, but Nintendo only gives us little morsels rather than the immensity of gameplay found in the dungeons. Pretty much, I feel like Nintendo spends way too much time on filling the dungeons with gameplay and not enough time letting that spill onto Hyrule. We need a living world closer to an Elder Scrolls philosophy, one that brings us back to the 2-D mystery of exploring an overworld (because hey, we might find a person or an item that's important! Not just a friggin heart piece).

I guess that's the end. Yes I want these games remade. end rant

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I just started typing this at 2 AM and couldn't stop. BE WARNED THIS IS A RANT:

A 3-D version of either Legend of Zelda or LttP would trump any of the current Zelda games - why? World map design. Nintendo have completely changed how they treat Hyrule in the jump between 2-D and 3-D, and personally I am TIRED of bare fields with lame enemies. These aren't fun, no matter how beautiful. Compared to the world in Shadow of the Colossus, 3-D Zelda overworlds feel small, cramped, and linear. Nintendo tells stories linearly so I suppose they think that an overworld should be point A to B with large open areas (with no objectives) stuffed in between. The area that has most impressed me so far is Lake Hylia in Twilight Princess. Other than that, Hyrule keeps getting prettier with no gameplay improvement.

Imagine Link to the Past in 3-D. You'd pass a small grove of trees, climb a small hill and come to a library with an ancient book. Around the bend from this library you'd find a bustling town, but directly past it is a forest. Go east from the forest and there is a graveyard and a pathway to both a lake and a castle. These elements are all combined rather than separated.

OoT, MM, and TP all have overworlds that amount to nothing but this:

***---------0------****
**--------------------***
*0---------------------**
*------------------------0
*------------------------*
**---------------------**
***---------------0--***

0 = important, cool looking thing
---- = bare open field

I think the reason Shadow of the Colossus was able to pull this off is because it was entirely about the aesthetic nature of the world - the game's focus was on the barrenness and immensity of the world you were in. It maintained consistency by having you start from point A and get to point B on a linear track, but that linear track was the light from your sword, NOT fake dirt walls that impeded your progress. You could go anywhere, but most places just weren't important. If Zelda could take that world and inhabit it with random people, shops, houses, dungeons, etc, all in one seamless (read: no loading) environment, then it would probably be the best Zelda ever. As it stands, Hyrule Field is just filler in between exciting stuff.  

edit: Better wording on the SotC/Zelda comparison. Zelda's gameplay is diverse. It is about many people and places that need saving - Link is the courageous one who must save the world. This is an active participation in the world - ergo, Zelda gameplay is puzzle solving, dialogue, interaction with the overworld, combat, etc. In SotC, the gameplay is stripped to bare elements only - half of the gameplay is merely horse riding, while the other half is fighting the Colossi. The character of Wander participates passively in the world until the Colossi appear. It was an aesthetic choice to make the "forsaken" landscape completely empty, and a wise one because the world itself becomes a plot element that impacts our understanding of the Colossi and our feelings about the mystery unfolding in front of us. Hyrule is meant to be Link's playground - with myriad items and skills by which he must save the multitude people and places, there has got to be plenty to do. Why make Hyrule Field empty if it is the core of his purpose?

Nintendo was afraid to do what Sony did with Shadow of the Colossus, which was make a giant overworld where nothing happens. They believe (and perhaps rightly so) in an overworld that is active - yet they do so only halfway by introducing weak, meaningless enemies that we don't care about and can merely fly past. An element like a bridge or a cavern can be inhabited by so much more than generic enemies, but Nintendo only gives us little morsels rather than the immensity of gameplay found in the dungeons. Pretty much, I feel like Nintendo spends way too much time on filling the dungeons with gameplay and not enough time letting that spill onto Hyrule. We need a living world closer to an Elder Scrolls philosophy, one that brings us back to the 2-D mystery of exploring an overworld (because hey, we might find a person or an item that's important! Not just a friggin heart piece).

I guess that's the end. Yes I want these games remade. end rant

Funny I thought the exact thing about Shadow of Collosus which has about one of the lamest, most boring overworlds in the history of gaming. The 3D Zelda's, especially TP, have enough variety in the overworld to keep my interest but not so large or so complex that its becomes tedious to get accross. I'm sorry but it seems like a bit of a double standard to give SotC the pat on the back and not give TP it as well, at least Zelda's enviroments are lively, and I would not be surprised if the reason why SotC has the "isolated" theme is to mask any attempt at bogging down the engine even more with something to do in between bosses.

[Infernal Monkey]

Zelda overworlds are missing cool stuff to grind on. Imagine grinding Epona along a rail or doing sick stunts off the roof of a shop. Link'd be all "right aaawwn" and the shop keeper would ring up Mayor Ganon to complain about a street punk and his horse. Then Mayor Ganon starts roaming the streets and punching trash cans for food and bonus items.

[KDR_11k]

I too miss the full overworld of the 2d Zeldas. I think it's just not doable to put interesting stuff everywhere AND make the whole overworld seamless. almost every island in Wind Waker was something interesting, unfortunately they are so spread out. If they could make an overworld that was pretty much "islands" (rooms, screens, whatever) tied together by very short pathes where the loading happens that would be perfect for a 3d Zelda.

[Galford]

Evan I hear what your saying, but in order to make a game like that you would need a system more powerful then the Wii.
It at best would look like Morrowwind on an old PC.

Didn't TP use a hyper modified version of the WW engine?
It trades texture and model detail for no load times.

It would be interesting to see a Zelda game built from the ground up on Wii based engine.

[KDR_11k]

Didn't TP use a hyper modified version of the WW engine?
It trades texture and model detail for no load times.

Maybe in the Wii version. On the GC there are load times.

[ryancoke]

Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
Didn't TP use a hyper modified version of the WW engine?
It trades texture and model detail for no load times.

Remember that windwaker used cellshading and alot of solid color textures.  Solid colors are much easier for the wii/gcn to render than realistic textures.  If they did another windwaker style Zelda built from the ground up on the wii, I think they could make Hyrule Field ginormous.  I think they did a really good job with TP's field though. It's fairly large and I think it has enough variety.

[couchmonkey]

I prefer the 3D overworlds to the 2D ones.  I hate every little bit of travel being hindered by enemies and obstacles.

Though I wouldn't mind seeing more action in the 3D maps in general.  

[ryancoke]

It would be cool if that big-ogre-on-a-pig-dude would randomly attack you in hyrule field. Remember back on FFVII, when you were flying around in the airship occationally a big boss type monster would attack?

[KDR_11k]

Solid colors are much easier for the wii/gcn to render than realistic textures.

Not necessarily, if the entire polygon has the same color that uses very little texture space but even if there's just one line drawn on a polygon it needs the normal amount of texture memory.

If they did another windwaker style Zelda built from the ground up on the wii, I think they could make Hyrule Field ginormous.

Scaling costs no power, what does cost power is filling all that space with interesting stuff. I suppose the only reason Hyrule Field isn't bigger is because there's no reason for it to be. Bigger just means longer travel times. It's a pretty large area of gameplay desert as is.

I prefer the 3D overworlds to the 2D ones. I hate every little bit of travel being hindered by enemies and obstacles.

If your travels have nothing happening in them why not replace them with teleports? Game time where nothing happens for minutes is just filler.

[Ceric]

I like Legend of Zeldas overworld much more then any of the other ones mystelf.  LttP second.    I just find the firsts a good compact interesting size.  Always a good amount of things to kill.  A good "variety" of locals.  Also most places where there because they needed to be.  I guess I just like the 2D better in general.  They feel like fuller games.

I wouldn't mind a 3D redo of the first one.  Though I greatly preferred a graphically enhanced 2D version.  Maybe even tie them together and make the Second Quest 3D.

[Louieturkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Galford

Didn't TP use a hyper modified version of the WW engine?
It trades texture and model detail for no load times.

Yes it did.  Nintendo used the same engine and modified it a bit which makes what Infernal Monkey said just dumb.  "I hate this engine but I love the exact same one, its twin, right next to it."

[Ceric]

There some twins like that I now... But it's their attitude and the way the wear there hair.

[Ian Sane]

My knee-jerk reaction to remakes is "BAH!"  Think Stephen Fry in Black Adder.  Actually the 2D Zeldas in 3D would be pretty cool but I'd just rather have new Zelda games instead.  To me it's a waste of resources.

I think Svevan has a good point though I wonder if making an overworld like the 2D games is even possible in 3D.  Those games had the little transitions from tile-to-tile.  In 3D you can't do that.  Could they even make a game that big in 3D?  Metroid Prime pretty much does that but it has doors.  You can't really do that with Zelda.

[Spak-Spang]

Some games work better in 3D and some elements of Zelda worked better in 2D.  Notice none of the 3D Zeldas had burning trees and such.

And I have found very few caves to blow up and explore...of course, I could be looking in the wrong places.

Some things work better in 2D and should just remain the classics that we love.

[Kairon]

Cool idea. Waste of Resources. Evan is smart.

Outsource to a bunch of bright-eyed hardworking Digipen students formed into a brand new company?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[mantidor]

I don't care if its a waste of resources, I want a MM remake with orchestrated music and a WW-TP-like engine just with more blur and cellshading ( I love both, ). Actually for Nintendo is not a waste of resources at all, the models, puzzles, dungeons and characters are already there, they could put together a remake in a short time.

As for the overworlds, I'll say be careful what you wish for, its not evident of course, but I've noticed that the contrast of having to travel an almost barren path to find a populous town full of things make things feel more epic. I haven't play SotC, but I bet it wouldn't be the same game if you just selected which colossus to take down in a menu which unlocks the next one after you beat the one before. What there needs to be is the right balance, WW was a tad too "big" in its barren parts, TP a little bit less from what I've played so far.

 

[Ian Sane]

Another reason to poo-poo remakes is the potentially negative effect it can have on the whole industry if companies think they can get away with it.  Look at all the remakes in the film industry.  It's ridiculous.  But movie studios think they can get away with just rehashing the same stuff instead of making something new.  So we get a lot of film remakes.  I say let's keep remakes down so that Nintendo never thinks they can release remakes and it will "count" as a real Zelda game.  They sure as f*ck counted Super Mario Advance as a real Mario game for the GBA since they never ended up making one.

[armedalliance]

I'd personally love to see a Zelda: ALttP remake so long as the general world/dungeon design was kept close to the original. There's very few games I'd approve of such a thing, lol. Well out of boredom, some screens from some Soldier of Fortune II maps I was working on. First two are from the Desert Palace and the 3rd from a Clocktown map I started. I never released my Desert Palace map though 'cause it was slow and required a work-around to actually play in it (was more complete than in the screens).

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