Topic: Comparing Wii U's Sales to GameCube, Wii

[Khushrenada]

Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters.

What would be a better comparison then?  The two numbers that mean something are expected sales (9.0M vs. 2. and profit (negative).  There is no argument that the Wii U is selling well or selling as much as Nintendo needs it to. 

I think a better comparison would be Kings of England and buildings with Corinthian posts. When you compare the Wii U situation in that manner, then it just goes to show how offbase everybody is with this talk of doom and gloom for the system.

[Khushrenada]

Edit: Sorry I made a mistake in that last post. I meant to say a better comparison would be Irving Berlin songs and the changing fashions of Aztec clothing in the 13th century.

[Tora]

Nintendo's finished.  Guess all their years of ass-hatery finally caught up them.  And with the 3DS doing worst than the original DS, I fear the worst for the Big N, which isn't Big any longer.

[syn4aptik]

You guys are crazy, Neal is dead-on with this analysis.


Considering the surprising success of the 3DS and the inability of Nintendo to create HD games at a reasonable clip, I wouldn't be surprised if this is Nintendo's last true home console (although I could see a handheld that streams to the TV).

[Tora]

Also, Let's face it, the old Nintendo who grew up is gone.  Nintendo caught a virus of casualty and can't bring them selves to try on their products any longer.  Hell, they need help from 3rd parties to make HD games.  That aren't even in 1080p by the way.   The new Nintendo doesn't even try to be appealing, and the lack of support on their under powered, lackluster Console, which deserves to sell poorly to begin with.  Hell, even if it had support for it would still be a scam next to the other consoles, let alone PCs.

[xcwarrior]

DOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!

Yeah, I get it. Things look bad for WiiU. Not for Nintendo folks. 3DS is doing just fine. Nintendo survived Virtual Boy, and Gamecube. They're going to survive the WiiU failure as well.

I've at least realized now that Mario Kart 8 isn't going to sell systems. And hey, it's going to be intesting in July when we have a new president of Nintendo when Iwata is switched to a new position (No one is fired in Japan).

But folks, Nintendo isn't doomed. Nintendo hasn't lost it's way, they just forgot how to market a console. They still have handhelds down pat.

[Tora]

Sorry but these comparisions are apples and oranges. The numbers do not mean anything

How doesn't it?  It's more like comparing different brands of apples.  Some apples sell better and are better received because they have more quality, quantity and price ect.  Nintendo's console was already weak, and the stronger competitors are making it even hard for them to surmount adversity.   They can't even come close to their previous consoles which is sad, considering the Wii did so much for them.  May this be a kick in the ass so they'll change back to the Nintendo we all grew up with.

[Tora]

I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.

Depends on how narrowly you define the market.  Clearly more people play games today than did 5 years ago.  Unfortunately for Nintendo, Apple makes the casual gaming/multi-media device now. 

By "market" I was referring to the market for dedicated game consoles. If anything, it may have gotten smaller. A lot of people bought Wiis (and PS2s before that) who'd probably stick to phones/tablets/Facebook now.

Those casuals went on to buy the big boy consoles.  Same will happen with this gen of casuals.  Eventually anyone who is interested in games will reach the point where they will own a PS or XBOX or PC.  Nintendo doesn't have the longevity it once had.  They need to stop living in the pass and face reality.  Their inability to do so has been their collective ruin.

[broodwars]

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.

It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:

GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"

It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.

[NWR_insanolord]

Those casuals went on to buy the big boy consoles.  Same will happen with this gen of casuals.  Eventually anyone who is interested in games will reach the point where they will own a PS or XBOX or PC.

I seriously doubt this. Nintendo caught lightning in a bottle, twice, being at the right place at the right time with the DS and Wii. They got in just before the smartphone and tablet boom and cleaned up with a novel idea. Some may have stayed and gone on to other consoles, but most of the audience that made Nintendo the second-largest company in Japan for a while has likely moved on to smartphones, tablets and Facebook games. Why pay hundreds for a dedicated game machine when the stuff they can get on the platforms they already have is good enough?

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Please direct me to these threads you're speaking of. People may have touted the numbers, as the winners in such things tend to do, but I don't remember many people saying they were all that mattered. They were used in arguments for why companies should better support the system, but lots of people had good things to say about what was actually there as well.

[Shaymin]

I think the real tragedy here is the Vita doing 10k, or 1/7 of the total of the doomed console.

[Phil]

I think two of the best games of the generation in both Super Mario Galaxy games, two Metroid titles, the return of franchises like Donkey Kong Country, Punch-Out!!, and Sin & Punishment, two Kirby games, a new 2D Mario platformer for consoles, a new Wario Land, a new Battalion Wars, a new Mario soccer game, one new Zelda game, a new Mario Kart, and a new Smash (I'm probably forgetting other games) makes it so those who say Nintendo didn't make what they wanted on the Wii look like total spoiled brats. Isolated incidents like E3 2008 and the lack of localizations for Pandora's Tower and The Last Story don't change those facts.

Of course, there's a lot of revisionist history going on with folks happy the Wii U is bombing, perhaps because these individuals actually believe Nintendo turned its back on them or whatever with the Wii (besides producing a lot of top-shelf content). Maybe even they're getting a sense of revenge over Nintendo now that the company is doing poorly, so maybe I'm in the wrong discussion here. *shrugs*

Also, yes, broodwars, I'd love to see these posts you're talking about. I'm sure your generalization of this forum's users and how everyone was saying the same thing is 100% true about sales mattering last gen but not this gen. Surely you can find them, since EVERYONE or a MAJORITY of people were saying such things, right?

[broodwars]

Also, yes, broodwars, I'd love to see these posts you're talking about. I'm sure your generalization of this forum's users and how everyone was saying the same thing is 100% true about sales mattering last gen but not this gen. Surely you can find them, since EVERYONE or a MAJORITY of people were saying such things, right?

Then go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.

Of course, there's a lot of revisionist history going on with folks happy the Wii U is bombing, perhaps because these individuals actually believe Nintendo turned its back on them or whatever with the Wii (besides producing a lot of top-shelf content). Maybe even they're getting a sense of revenge over Nintendo now that the company is doing poorly, so maybe I'm in the wrong discussion here. *shrugs*

Yes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.

And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

[MagicCow64]

Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history. I could see them doubling down at E3 and announcing a steady flow of software through 2015. Or we could get a Zelda Wii U bone and a huge shift toward QOL with hardly any new top-shelf Wii U games announced from here on out. Exciting times! Although really the (unlikely) best-case scenario here is that Mario Kart and Smash jolt enough juice into the system to get it back on a trajectory of 20 million or so lifetime, sub-Gamecube but not a Dreamcast or Saturn level of failure.

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

[xcwarrior]

Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history.

Virtual Boy, just saying.

And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

Blue Ocean strategy was a HUGE short term success, just not a long term one. If it had been a failure, there might not any Nintendo system right now, just handhelds. Even then, DS was a huge success thanks to Blue Ocean, and 3DS still has some of that.

I think the real tragedy here is the Vita doing 10k, or 1/7 of the total of the doomed console.

What's a Vita?

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.

It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:

GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"

It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.

Even when Wii sales were killing it, the gaming media for the most part focused on the lack of 3rd party support. Gotta focus on the negative, it's what people read.

I have fun with my WiiU, I'm sure 3 or 4 others on this website who actually own it do too. How about a little less bashing for the few fans it has?

[broodwars]

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. </shots fired>

[NWR_insanolord]

It's very easy to make claims when you don't have to substantiate them.

[broodwars]

Edit (wouldn't bother noting it except it completely changes the meaning of the sentence): The Vita's a larger sales failure than the Wii U...

[NWR_Neal]

Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history. I could see them doubling down at E3 and announcing a steady flow of software through 2015. Or we could get a Zelda Wii U bone and a huge shift toward QOL with hardly any new top-shelf Wii U games announced from here on out. Exciting times! Although really the (unlikely) best-case scenario here is that Mario Kart and Smash jolt enough juice into the system to get it back on a trajectory of 20 million or so lifetime, sub-Gamecube but not a Dreamcast or Saturn level of failure.

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

I don't have high hopes for E3 2014. I figured Nintendo's E3 last year would blow me away with surprises. Instead, it was a slew of solid games that we already knew about (save DKC: Tropical Freeze, which demoed to me as "DKCR 1.5"). I figured Nintendo's E3 two years ago would blow me away, but that was basically just Nintendo Land and ZombiU as the "showstoppers." I want Nintendo to blow my goddamn mind at E3 2014. I want to be on my plane ride home ecstatic for the fall and beyond. I just can't have high expectations anymore. That being said, while I'll go into E3 2014 with measured, borderline pessimistic, expectations, I will hold out hope for the surprise and the unexpected.

And the thing with the Vita is expectations weren't high. You're right; a lot of major outlets do gloss over the system's complete and total failure, making phantom statements about how "Vita sales are up thanks to PS4" that are unsubstantiated. The Wii U is a bigger target because Nintendo is so wildly off with their expectations. Sony's been real quiet about how miserable Vita sales are, but also, I believe the software attach rate for Vita is through the roof. I also know from talking to indie devs that Sony makes it very affordable and easy to port/make your game on Vita.

I'd like the record to know that if I ran Sony World Report, I'd likely write this same type of article for Vita. If anyone wants to contract me to write that for a Sony web site, I'm listening.

[MagicCow64]

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. </shots fired>

Except every Vita piece is exactly what you just wrote: noodling about how this gosh-darned awesome system doesn't seem to be doing too well, but dog gone-it it's awesome anyway! Completely different tone of coverage.

[MagicCow64]

I don't have high hopes for E3 2014. I figured Nintendo's E3 last year would blow me away with surprises. Instead, it was a slew of solid games that we already knew about (save DKC: Tropical Freeze, which demoed to me as "DKCR 1.5"). I figured Nintendo's E3 two years ago would blow me away, but that was basically just Nintendo Land and ZombiU as the "showstoppers." I want Nintendo to blow my goddamn mind at E3 2014. I want to be on my plane ride home ecstatic for the fall and beyond. I just can't have high expectations anymore. That being said, while I'll go into E3 2014 with measured, borderline pessimistic, expectations, I will hold out hope for the surprise and the unexpected.

And the thing with the Vita is expectations weren't high. You're right; a lot of major outlets do gloss over the system's complete and total failure, making phantom statements about how "Vita sales are up thanks to PS4" that are unsubstantiated. The Wii U is a bigger target because Nintendo is so wildly off with their expectations. Sony's been real quiet about how miserable Vita sales are, but also, I believe the software attach rate for Vita is through the roof. I also know from talking to indie devs that Sony makes it very affordable and easy to port/make your game on Vita.

I'd like the record to know that if I ran Sony World Report, I'd likely write this same type of article for Vita. If anyone wants to contract me to write that for a Sony web site, I'm listening.

Yeah, I don't really have high hopes either. Just trying to be optimistic! I think it's probably more likely that we'll see the beginning of the end of Nintendo's dedication to the home console space, lots of attention on Vitality Sensor 2.0, Zelda WiiU, Smash info dump, updates on announced games, and one big new title, one or two new small-to-midrange titles. For what it's worth, I imagine we'll also probably see Sony basically give it up on the Vita as much more than a spendy PS4 accessory.

[Khushrenada]

Lordy, lordy, lordy. So much ado about nothing. Because that's what Wii U sales are, amirite? Hi-yoooo!

It's times like this and articles like this that remind of this article at Pietriots. You can click it here.. Sure, you may want to argue different points in it. But I think the last paragraph is what rings true with me the most.

But let's take a moment to look at some of the cray-cray going on in this thread.

Tora writes

Dear Khushrenada,

Nintendo caught a virus of casualty and can't bring them selves to try on their products any longer. May this be a kick in the ass so they'll change back to the Nintendo we all grew up with. You may recognize these as some pretty strong (though pretty erroneous) statements I've been making. I like making such hyperbolic statements. Please don't point out how wrong they are.

Your pal,
Tora

Sorry Tora but that's a no.

Nintendo doesn't try with their games? Let's take a quick look at some of their franchises.

Mario - Had massive success and critical acclaim for Super Mario Galaxy. Repeatedly called innovative. (I may not be a fan but even I wouldn't say that they were being lazy or not trying with the game.) Super Mario 3D Land was a new approach to Mario 3D platforming that got more critical acclaim and is considered one of the top 3 games for the 3DS. The sequel 3D World has also been massively praised and acclaimed. Plus, NSMB U has been the best 2D Mario platformer released since probably Super Mario World. It just gets overshadowed due to the New brand aesthetic wearing thin. The franchise is at the top of its game.

Zelda - This one is all over the map depending on who you ask but the latest entry on the 3DS was also just critically acclaimed not only as being well designed but also for trying to shake up the Zelda formula with dungeon progression. *Gasp* Actually trying new things! I don't understand. You said they didn't. Skyward Sword has divided people but I work with a fellow who is a huge Final Fantasy fan and more of a PC gamer. Yet, he keeps urging me to get around to playing Skyward Sword and says its the best Zelda. I find it hilarious how he keeps explaining how great the motion controls are and the ways you have to counterattack. Nintendo also re-released a couple Zelda games in the Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. In both cases, they redid the graphics and tweaked a few things about the games to give them more polish (although some people still wanted more). They could have just released them as they were already. Rayman 3D didn't exactly seem to do much to repolish itself. There have been other lazy ports to the Wii U while a better release of game has gone to the other consoles. But I'm sure that was 3rd parties trying unlike Nintendo.

Donkey Kong - DKCR was the return of the Country franchise and a hardcore game through and through. DKC:TF might not be a leap forward but it is still probably the better game and the DK franchise is at the best its been in years.

Animal Crossing - It just had its best version come out last year on the 3DS.

Fire Emblem - Its popularity has skyrocketed with Awakenings release last year. Interestingly, a big credit goes to the change of being able to have permadeaths turned on or off. Good thing Nintendo tried something new there.

Kirby - This franchise has been on a steady rise. Looking at the last 6 games released for it, the weakest is Squeak Squad. Canvas Curse, Mass Attack and Epic Yarn were all new ideas for the character. Superstar Ultra may have been a re-release but new content was added into it, it was up-rezzed and it is what I consider the best Kirby game made so definitely worth a play. Return to Dreamland is probably the second best traditional Kirby game made after Superstar. And there have been rumblings with Triple Deluxe that it could be better than both of those. Kirby is killing it.

Pikmin 3 - It actually got a release and tries new things and was also well received critically.

Kid Icarus - It got revived but has had an uneven reception with some praising it and others criticizing it. I'd still say it is the high point of that particular franchise. Maybe that's because it was made with little effort. Oh no, wait. That wasn't it at all.

Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Professer Layton, may not be doing too much different in their franchises and opinions will vary as to which games are better in their series but they are all stable franchises and they do try new things. Right now, it just seems to be about passing judgement on something before actually trying it as evidence by the Mario Kart and Smash Bros. reception.

Could things be better? Sure. F-Zero was at a huge high when GX was released and has now gone dormant. Star Fox has been unable to get past its 64 version. Metroid is on a cool down phase. Yoshi can't seem to find a way to move past Super Mario World 2. The Paper Mario franchise is losing appeal for experimenting too much. Oddly enough, The Thousand Year Door seems to be the high point of the franchise and yet it's a very close copy to the original and may be the least experimental. Seems gamers don't always like when Nintendo tries.

Yet, there's so much more going on. Luigi's Mansion just got a sequel that is better than the original. The latest Mario Golf seems to have the potential to be the best in that series and it took almost 10 years for this latest sequel to be released. There's all the Mario Sports titles that could have new iterations released. The Mario and Luigi franchise got a new release last year. Advance Wars is dormant with the last one trying to change things up with a new cast and aesthetic. The Battalion Wars franchise was created from it. Nintendo even put in some new entries for Wii Fit, Crosswords and the Brain Age series even if you don't care for them. Pilotwings got a new entry.

I'm not going to keep going through every single game and franchise that Nintendo could be making games for right now. It's an embarrassment of riches that other game companies dream of. Yet, despite this and the cries of so many gamers for Nintendo to make a sequel for this or that, they also want new IP's which Nintendo has done (they're just never the new IP's people were dreaming up in their heads). That's a lot of ideas expected from one company. Thus, I'm not surprised that not every game released is going to be the best version ever. That's the cost of trying new things or working to meet demand. Yet, the fact is that with the Wii U and 3DS, we are seeing some of the best entries made in a lot of these franchises and to say that Nintendo isn't trying or needs to go back to the Nintendo of old is plain ignorance. There is nothing wrong with the current design of games.

(And I didn't even get a chance to get into some of the other bad points in this thread. Oh well. Tomorrow is another day.)

[Phil]

Then go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.

So you can't come up with any posts? If it's so common, then you should be able to get LOTS of posts. You're the one who brought this up in the first place.

Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.

Yes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I [/font]am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

I'm just laughing at some of the folks about being abundantly happy over Nintendo's failure. I sort of picture them in a dark room with no windows, with the only light in the room being the computer screen's glare from yet another Nintendo is doomed article, all the while laughing maniacally. Keep fighting the good fight, I guess. It's great when companies that champion gaming are failing! BWAHAHAHA! It's especially great to be happy with failure because you think a company should cater to you and you only.

Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.

[Kytim89]

When Nintendo dies the industry dies along with them. The issues facing Nintendo are not so much issues facing just Nintendo, but symptoms of a disease infecting the entire gaming industry as a whole. Look at Sony, despite the record sales and profits from the PS4 Sony is still bleeding revenue and could be on the verge of insolvency. As for Microsoft, the fact that the new Spider-Man game is skipping the XBone while being available for the Wii U tells me that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with their newest console. 

[broodwars]

Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.

My Modus Operandi? My modus operandi is watching fanboys twist themselves into delightful little displays of self-righteous anger and agony until they cease to amuse me. I don't go searching for posts to amuse you because I have better things to do with my time, like spending 3 hours dodging 200 consecutive lightning bolts in Final Fantasy X, as I did tonight. The moment these little forum wars warrant more than 5 minutes of my time, I'll put the effort in to placate you.

[/font]Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.

If you're going to refer to Ian, do us all the pleasure of addressing him directly. I don't make a habit of writing lengthy tirades about how Nintendo "abandoned me." Nintendo did what they did, and I moved on and found a much more continually rewarding primary console holder in Sony. I do, however, enjoy a good "I told you so," and I was saying the casuals would betray Nintendo years ago the moment effort was introduced into their gaming world.  Now that they have, I'm enjoying watching Nintendo scrambling to catch up with the rest of the industry after their 9 years of stagnation.

I made it quite clear earlier my grievances with Nintendo: they're a backwards, stubborn, lazy company that has spent the last 10 years putting the minimum amount of money & effort into their work to get by. They've been needing a good ass-kicking for quite a while now. I'm enjoying that it's here. They make things I enjoy, and I continue to enjoy some of them but I'm not Nintendo's cheerleader anymore. When they **** up, as they often do, I have and will continue to call them out for it.  Out of respect and common courtesy for the rest of the folks here and their wish to bask in their love for Nintendo, I restrict my criticism to a handful of topics a day, and largely in the Talkback threads. Take your issues with Ian's continual 5 paragraph essays up with him.