Spoiler alert: It is very depressing.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/37210/comparing-wii-us-sales-to-gamecube-wii
A season changes and another month passes, which means we likely had more confirmation that the Wii U is not selling well. With very few, if any, releases, the expectations from month-to-month are dismal. But exactly how bad? According to analyst David Gibson, a little more than 70,000 Wii Us were sold in March 2014. That means the Wii U was thoroughly outclassed by the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, which both posted sales numbers in the 300,000 range. That’s not a competition; that’s a slaughter.
Here’s the full rundown of what we know for each system (most are approximate numbers, not exact):
Yes, the Xbox 360 is still beating the Wii U monthly. It’s not like the Wii U had much to offer this month (I defy you to name a notable release in March), but still: a nearly 9-year-old system is beating Nintendo’s latest console handily.
Let’s have some more fun with numbers. Let’s go back to comparable moments for each of Nintendo’s recent systems. Here are the sales from the Wii U, Wii, and GameCube from their second March on the market:
Taking it a step further, here’s where each of those three systems were at sales-wise overall at those same points:
People keep comparing the Wii U to the GameCube, but look at those numbers. They are not comparable. The Wii U is selling about half as much as the GameCube. And the GameCube is still a year away from its swift and quick collapse. The GameCube might have been in third place in its generation, but it wasn’t anywhere close to the complete and total bomb that the Wii U is.
It’s a broken record at this point, but the Wii U continues to underwhelm. With indie games getting delayed, little-to-no third-party support, and a swiss cheese-like first-party calendar, things don’t look like they’re going to get better. An optimistic goal is for the Wii U to maybe cross 10 million sold worldwide, which would put it on par with the Sega Saturn and the TurboGrafx-16. With that depressing news, the best bet might be to enjoy Mario Kart and Smash Bros. and join me in asking the stars “When’s Quality of Life coming out? Can I play Mario on that?”
I would say this is depressing but I actually don't find it that way. This has been a long time coming. I've been jerked around by Nintendo enough over the years that I don't care. The "real" Nintendo, the one I became a fan of in the first place, has been gone for years. I don't see Nintendo at the end of their rope, I see the Nintendo imposter that took their place and I don't give a **** about them. The real Nintendo got cancer in 1996 and died at some point during the first half of the 00's and was replaced by some pod person Nintendo.
The Dreamcast was depressing because Sega had seemingly gotten their **** together. They were seemingly doing everything right and had a great product but failed nonetheless. That's sad. The Wii U deserves to fail so it doing so is no tragedy.
The one part I do find despressing is that I fear Nintendo will just give up on games. They COULD learn from this but I fear they won't and that the Quality of Life thing is them leaving the traditional gaming market to focus on health related software like Wii Fit or Brain Age. This should be the swift kick in the ass they need to get their act together but it probably isn't and that would suck. I would be upset if there was a chance for the "real" Nintendo to return and they made no effort to act on it. I would rather they try and fail with a Dreamcast then to just quit.
Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters. There were way more apples sold this month than Segway scooters. What a surprise! Guess Segway should stop making them and come out with an apple cart instead. Here's a comparison for you. In the month of March, the Wii U sold more units than Xbox360 in Japan. See, making up comparisons to suit your agenda is easy. That's why I always compare myself to everyone and everything. It should come as no surprise that I always come out on top because nothing can compare to me.
You may consider this comparing apples to oranges, but if you start comparing apples to apples things look even worse.
Wii U is selling much worse than GameCube in a much larger market. It's also selling much less than Wii in an expanded market that the Wii itself created.
What's worse is that Nintendo is really only half-heartedly supporting it. It's doing as much as it can, I guess, but that isn't enough and everybody knows it.
Don't get too upset about that, it's just Ian being Ian. At the very least, he's consistent, as I've been around these parts upwards of 6 years now and he's pretty much always been that way.
I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.
On a personal level, the second it was clear this was another Wii, I didn't want it.
Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters.
I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.
Depends on how narrowly you define the market. Clearly more people play games today than did 5 years ago. Unfortunately for Nintendo, Apple makes the casual gaming/multi-media device now.
I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.
So many articles, so many discussions as to why it's not selling, so many "look at how shitty these sales are! rofl" pieces that it gets to the point where it just becomes noise.
It's repeated ad nauseum, again and again, and it's just boring now.
QuoteMan, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters.
What would be a better comparison then? The two numbers that mean something are expected sales (9.0M vs. 2. :cool; and profit (negative). There is no argument that the Wii U is selling well or selling as much as Nintendo needs it to.
Sorry but these comparisions are apples and oranges. The numbers do not mean anything
I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.
Depends on how narrowly you define the market. Clearly more people play games today than did 5 years ago. Unfortunately for Nintendo, Apple makes the casual gaming/multi-media device now.
By "market" I was referring to the market for dedicated game consoles. If anything, it may have gotten smaller. A lot of people bought Wiis (and PS2s before that) who'd probably stick to phones/tablets/Facebook now.
I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.
Those casuals went on to buy the big boy consoles. Same will happen with this gen of casuals. Eventually anyone who is interested in games will reach the point where they will own a PS or XBOX or PC.
Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"
Also, yes, broodwars, I'd love to see these posts you're talking about. I'm sure your generalization of this forum's users and how everyone was saying the same thing is 100% true about sales mattering last gen but not this gen. Surely you can find them, since EVERYONE or a MAJORITY of people were saying such things, right?
Of course, there's a lot of revisionist history going on with folks happy the Wii U is bombing, perhaps because these individuals actually believe Nintendo turned its back on them or whatever with the Wii (besides producing a lot of top-shelf content). Maybe even they're getting a sense of revenge over Nintendo now that the company is doing poorly, so maybe I'm in the wrong discussion here. *shrugs*
Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history.
And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences. The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.
I think the real tragedy here is the Vita doing 10k, or 1/7 of the total of the doomed console.
I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.
No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.
It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:
GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"
Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"
Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"
It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.
And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.
Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history. I could see them doubling down at E3 and announcing a steady flow of software through 2015. Or we could get a Zelda Wii U bone and a huge shift toward QOL with hardly any new top-shelf Wii U games announced from here on out. Exciting times! Although really the (unlikely) best-case scenario here is that Mario Kart and Smash jolt enough juice into the system to get it back on a trajectory of 20 million or so lifetime, sub-Gamecube but not a Dreamcast or Saturn level of failure.
And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.
You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration. The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).
The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. </shots fired>
I don't have high hopes for E3 2014. I figured Nintendo's E3 last year would blow me away with surprises. Instead, it was a slew of solid games that we already knew about (save DKC: Tropical Freeze, which demoed to me as "DKCR 1.5"). I figured Nintendo's E3 two years ago would blow me away, but that was basically just Nintendo Land and ZombiU as the "showstoppers." I want Nintendo to blow my goddamn mind at E3 2014. I want to be on my plane ride home ecstatic for the fall and beyond. I just can't have high expectations anymore. That being said, while I'll go into E3 2014 with measured, borderline pessimistic, expectations, I will hold out hope for the surprise and the unexpected.
And the thing with the Vita is expectations weren't high. You're right; a lot of major outlets do gloss over the system's complete and total failure, making phantom statements about how "Vita sales are up thanks to PS4" that are unsubstantiated. The Wii U is a bigger target because Nintendo is so wildly off with their expectations. Sony's been real quiet about how miserable Vita sales are, but also, I believe the software attach rate for Vita is through the roof. I also know from talking to indie devs that Sony makes it very affordable and easy to port/make your game on Vita.
I'd like the record to know that if I ran Sony World Report, I'd likely write this same type of article for Vita. If anyone wants to contract me to write that for a Sony web site, I'm listening.
Dear Khushrenada,
Nintendo caught a virus of casualty and can't bring them selves to try on their products any longer. May this be a kick in the ass so they'll change back to the Nintendo we all grew up with. You may recognize these as some pretty strong (though pretty erroneous) statements I've been making. I like making such hyperbolic statements. Please don't point out how wrong they are.
Your pal,
Tora
Then go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.
Yes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I [/font]am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences. The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.
Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.
[/font]Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.
If you're going to refer to Ian, do us all the pleasure of addressing him directly. I don't make a habit of writing lengthy tirades about how Nintendo "abandoned me." Nintendo did what they did, and I moved on and found a much more continually rewarding primary console holder in Sony. I do, however, enjoy a good "I told you so," and I was saying the casuals would betray Nintendo years ago the moment effort was introduced into their gaming world. Now that they have, I'm enjoying watching Nintendo scrambling to catch up with the rest of the industry after their 9 years of stagnation.
I made it quite clear earlier my grievances with Nintendo: they're a backwards, stubborn, lazy company that has spent the last 10 years putting the minimum amount of money & effort into their work to get by. They've been needing a good ass-kicking for quite a while now. I'm enjoying that it's here. They make things I enjoy, and I continue to enjoy some of them but I'm not Nintendo's cheerleader anymore. When they **** up, as they often do, I have and will continue to call them out for it. Out of respect and common courtesy for the rest of the folks here and their wish to bask in their love for Nintendo, I restrict my criticism to a handful of topics a day, and largely in the Talkback threads. Take your issues with Ian's continual 5 paragraph essays up with him.
Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.If you're going to refer to Ian, do us all the pleasure of addressing him directly. I don't make a habit of writing lengthy tirades about how Nintendo "abandoned me." Nintendo did what they did, and I moved on and found a much more continually rewarding primary console holder in Sony. I do, however, enjoy a good "I told you so," and I was saying the casuals would betray Nintendo years ago the moment effort was introduced into their gaming world. Now that they have, I'm enjoying watching Nintendo scrambling to catch up with the rest of the industry after their 9 years of stagnation.
I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.
So many articles, so many discussions as to why it's not selling, so many "look at how shitty these sales are! rofl" pieces that it gets to the point where it just becomes noise.
It's repeated ad nauseum, again and again, and it's just boring now.
So after the 455th article about the Wii U selling like water to a drowning Nintendo executive, it gets really tiring and tedious to continue to read about the Wii U's sales, only this time the discussion is worded slightly differently to fool people into thinking something has changed.
Nope. "The Wii U has sold like ****, and it continues to sell like ****."
That would be my headline, and the body of it would read, "The end."
I actually think NWR does a good job at staying balanced and not being negative.
I actually think NWR does a good job at staying balanced and not being negative.
Have you seen the last few editorials? This month we've already had 2 editorials slamming Mario Kart 8 and this one on Wii U's sales. 3 out of 4 editorials in April isn't really staying balanced.
Have you seen the last few editorials? This month we've already had 2 editorials slamming Mario Kart 8 and this one on Wii U's sales. 3 out of 4 editorials in April isn't really staying balanced.
We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.
Just this week, Justin Baker put up this really lovely NES Remix 2 review. It looks fun. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37200/nes-remix-2-review (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37200/nes-remix-2-review)
Kim reviewed Disney Magical World at the beginning of the month, too. If you liked Animal Crossing, it's probably something you should check out! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37079/disney-magical-world-review (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37079/disney-magical-world-review)
And hey, we had this interview with Prismatic Games go up. Their Kickstarter for Hex Heroes, a totally rad RTS party game for Wii U is ending today and is super close to the goal. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/37171/interview-with-prismatic-games-on-hex-heroes (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/37171/interview-with-prismatic-games-on-hex-heroes)
And man oh man, if you never played Guacamelee, you should read Zach's preview and get ready for a really well-made Metroid-style game! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/hands-on-preview/37198/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition-impressions (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/hands-on-preview/37198/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition-impressions)
I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.
No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.
It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:
GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"
Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"
Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"
It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.
The reality is that the biggest Nintendo fans have been neglected the most by Nintendo. To not much drama or fanfare, Nintendo has turned its back on the real Nintendo fans, leaving behind either the most obscenely irrational fan or just the younger generation (say younger than 25) who have yet to tire of experiencing a half dozen sequels to an old concept rooted in the 80’s or 90’s while the rest of the world has moved on to full blown interactivity and fresh IP such as Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen.
Although I probably will regret it, please cite examples of Nintendo turning its back and neglecting fans.Something, something motion controls. Something, something last generation hardware. Something, something sequels.
We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.
We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.
The editorial section might be a small area of the site, but it's the area of the site that represents NWR's views on the topics they choose to cover.
Notwithstanding the excellent work done on the rest of the site, which you just showed. Top notch.
When Nintendo dies the industry dies along with them. The issues facing Nintendo are not so much issues facing just Nintendo, but symptoms of a disease infecting the entire gaming industry as a whole. Look at Sony, despite the record sales and profits from the PS4 Sony is still bleeding revenue and could be on the verge of insolvency. As for Microsoft, the fact that the new Spider-Man game is skipping the XBone while being available for the Wii U tells me that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with their newest console.
Lordy, lordy, lordy. So much ado about nothing. Because that's what Wii U sales are, amirite? Hi-yoooo!
It's times like this and articles like this that remind of this article at Pietriots. You can click it here. (http://pietriots.com/2014/01/26/nintendo-a-good-problem-to-have/#more-8064). Sure, you may want to argue different points in it. But I think the last paragraph is what rings true with me the most.
But let's take a moment to look at some of the cray-cray going on in this thread.
Tora writesQuote from: ToraDear Khushrenada,
Nintendo caught a virus of casualty and can't bring them selves to try on their products any longer. May this be a kick in the ass so they'll change back to the Nintendo we all grew up with. You may recognize these as some pretty strong (though pretty erroneous) statements I've been making. I like making such hyperbolic statements. Please don't point out how wrong they are.
Your pal,
Tora
Sorry Tora but that's a no.
Nintendo doesn't try with their games? Let's take a quick look at some of their franchises.
Mario - Had massive success and critical acclaim for Super Mario Galaxy. Repeatedly called innovative. (I may not be a fan but even I wouldn't say that they were being lazy or not trying with the game.) Super Mario 3D Land was a new approach to Mario 3D platforming that got more critical acclaim and is considered one of the top 3 games for the 3DS. The sequel 3D World has also been massively praised and acclaimed. Plus, NSMB U has been the best 2D Mario platformer released since probably Super Mario World. It just gets overshadowed due to the New brand aesthetic wearing thin. The franchise is at the top of its game.
Zelda - This one is all over the map depending on who you ask but the latest entry on the 3DS was also just critically acclaimed not only as being well designed but also for trying to shake up the Zelda formula with dungeon progression. *Gasp* Actually trying new things! I don't understand. You said they didn't. Skyward Sword has divided people but I work with a fellow who is a huge Final Fantasy fan and more of a PC gamer. Yet, he keeps urging me to get around to playing Skyward Sword and says its the best Zelda. I find it hilarious how he keeps explaining how great the motion controls are and the ways you have to counterattack. Nintendo also re-released a couple Zelda games in the Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. In both cases, they redid the graphics and tweaked a few things about the games to give them more polish (although some people still wanted more). They could have just released them as they were already. Rayman 3D didn't exactly seem to do much to repolish itself. There have been other lazy ports to the Wii U while a better release of game has gone to the other consoles. But I'm sure that was 3rd parties trying unlike Nintendo.
Donkey Kong - DKCR was the return of the Country franchise and a hardcore game through and through. DKC:TF might not be a leap forward but it is still probably the better game and the DK franchise is at the best its been in years.
Animal Crossing - It just had its best version come out last year on the 3DS.
Fire Emblem - Its popularity has skyrocketed with Awakenings release last year. Interestingly, a big credit goes to the change of being able to have permadeaths turned on or off. Good thing Nintendo tried something new there.
Kirby - This franchise has been on a steady rise. Looking at the last 6 games released for it, the weakest is Squeak Squad. Canvas Curse, Mass Attack and Epic Yarn were all new ideas for the character. Superstar Ultra may have been a re-release but new content was added into it, it was up-rezzed and it is what I consider the best Kirby game made so definitely worth a play. Return to Dreamland is probably the second best traditional Kirby game made after Superstar. And there have been rumblings with Triple Deluxe that it could be better than both of those. Kirby is killing it.
Pikmin 3 - It actually got a release and tries new things and was also well received critically.
Kid Icarus - It got revived but has had an uneven reception with some praising it and others criticizing it. I'd still say it is the high point of that particular franchise. Maybe that's because it was made with little effort. Oh no, wait. That wasn't it at all.
Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Professer Layton, may not be doing too much different in their franchises and opinions will vary as to which games are better in their series but they are all stable franchises and they do try new things. Right now, it just seems to be about passing judgement on something before actually trying it as evidence by the Mario Kart and Smash Bros. reception.
Could things be better? Sure. F-Zero was at a huge high when GX was released and has now gone dormant. Star Fox has been unable to get past its 64 version. Metroid is on a cool down phase. Yoshi can't seem to find a way to move past Super Mario World 2. The Paper Mario franchise is losing appeal for experimenting too much. Oddly enough, The Thousand Year Door seems to be the high point of the franchise and yet it's a very close copy to the original and may be the least experimental. Seems gamers don't always like when Nintendo tries.
Yet, there's so much more going on. Luigi's Mansion just got a sequel that is better than the original. The latest Mario Golf seems to have the potential to be the best in that series and it took almost 10 years for this latest sequel to be released. There's all the Mario Sports titles that could have new iterations released. The Mario and Luigi franchise got a new release last year. Advance Wars is dormant with the last one trying to change things up with a new cast and aesthetic. The Battalion Wars franchise was created from it. Nintendo even put in some new entries for Wii Fit, Crosswords and the Brain Age series even if you don't care for them. Pilotwings got a new entry.
I'm not going to keep going through every single game and franchise that Nintendo could be making games for right now. It's an embarrassment of riches that other game companies dream of. Yet, despite this and the cries of so many gamers for Nintendo to make a sequel for this or that, they also want new IP's which Nintendo has done (they're just never the new IP's people were dreaming up in their heads). That's a lot of ideas expected from one company. Thus, I'm not surprised that not every game released is going to be the best version ever. That's the cost of trying new things or working to meet demand. Yet, the fact is that with the Wii U and 3DS, we are seeing some of the best entries made in a lot of these franchises and to say that Nintendo isn't trying or needs to go back to the Nintendo of old is plain ignorance. There is nothing wrong with the current design of games.
(And I didn't even get a chance to get into some of the other bad points in this thread. Oh well. Tomorrow is another day.)
You know why this sort of thing keeps getting brought up? Because it matters in regards to Nintendo's future. Something is going to happen. Hopefully it's some reaction from Nintendo at E3. Maybe Nintendo does nothing but in that case the market's rejection of the console will effectively kill it and that will affect Nintendo's future. Something will happen. Heads will roll at Nintendo or they'll try something different with their next console or there won't be a next console and they'll be handheld only or they'll go third party or they'll go in a non-gaming direction altogether. The Wii U's fate will be of considerable importance in the Nintendo story. This is a turning point, hopefully the nadir before a return to glory but it could also be the "jump the shark" moment that signified the downfall. That's why we keep talking about it because it matters.
And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.
You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration. The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).
The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. </shots fired>
And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.
You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration. The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).
The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. </shots fired>
Just to note, that better system sold a little north of 10,000 units in March. If the market isn't accepting Wii U, it certainly isn't accepting the Vita.
QuoteThen go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.
So you can't come up with any posts? If it's so common, then you should be able to get LOTS of posts. You're the one who brought this up in the first place.
Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.QuoteYes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I [/font]am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences. The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.
I'm just laughing at some of the folks about being abundantly happy over Nintendo's failure. I sort of picture them in a dark room with no windows, with the only light in the room being the computer screen's glare from yet another Nintendo is doomed article, all the while laughing maniacally. Keep fighting the good fight, I guess. It's great when companies that champion gaming are failing! BWAHAHAHA! It's especially great to be happy with failure because you think a company should cater to you and you only.
Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.
Some people actually want to play Nintendo games and don't feel justified buying a weak over priced product. It's the same thing that happened with the PS3, but Nintendo doesn't give a **** to try and fix the Wii U. Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause. Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.
And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.
You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration. The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).
The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. </shots fired>
Just to note, that better system sold a little north of 10,000 units in March. If the market isn't accepting Wii U, it certainly isn't accepting the Vita.
Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause. Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.Oh, I see we have another person predicting an early death for Wii U. It's "by Q2 2015" this time which is April 1. Care to make a wager? The last guy chickened out. Will you?
Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause. Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.Oh, I see we have another person predicting an early death for Wii U. It's "by Q2 2015" this time which is April 1. Care to make a wager? The last guy chickened out. Will you?
Wii U sales have definitely been dismal compared to their previous consoles. However, if Nintendo wants to turn it around, I believe there is still a chance for them to do so. They will most definitely finish last in the console race, but I think they can redeem themselves by acquiring developers or publishing games that are not the usual Nintendo 'norm'. For example, Titanfall is not your typical Nintendo type of game, but I'm sure their system can run it if they approach or bought a developer that is capable of producing such games. But all this has to be done NOW. I always wondered why Nintendo never bought any big developers with all the money they have in the bank. With all the franchises that were available with the THQ bankruptcy, they could have built a bigger portfolio for themselves. It was good to hear Iwata talking about acquiring different companies. Hopefully, it will not be just japanese developers but also western developers. Most games nowadays take at least 2-3 years in development to be released so if they want to bring back some respectability for their console, it has to be done now.
I think Nintendo thought 3rd parties would fill in more of the gaps.
But yeah, Nintendo could really use this time to build their personnel numbers. Honestly, buying some teams and letting them make whatever and throwing it on the eShop could be how Nintendo finds their next big franchise.
The reality is that the biggest Nintendo fans have been neglected the most by Nintendo. To not much drama or fanfare, Nintendo has turned its back on the real Nintendo fans, leaving behind either the most obscenely irrational fan or just the younger generation (say younger than 25) who have yet to tire of experiencing a half dozen sequels to an old concept rooted in the 80’s or 90’s while the rest of the world has moved on to full blown interactivity and fresh IP such as Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen.
Although I probably will regret it, please cite examples of Nintendo turning its back and neglecting fans.
I see Ian Sane is still rehashing the same posts from 2004.And then he complains about Nintendo rehashing their games, hypocrite :D
Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.
I feel as if you didn't read a word I wrote.Everything you said was a good point, and a good post overall, but I feel like this is what's happening the most in this and a few other threads. There have been some real gross generalisations made about certain groups of people, and that feels like the result of just plain ignoring what people are actually saying, or ignoring the parts of it that go against the generalisations.
I wonder what kind of person you have to be in real life to write something so ill intentioned. It'd be great if you didn't take things so personally. Also, people are more important than a brand, don't forget.
It doesn't bother me that other opinions exist, a la Brood Wars trolling, but I am getting increasingly awed/irritated at the pathological regurgitation of the exact same same arguments for literally years. I have no idea what people are possibly getting out of it, and it certainly is doing nothing at this point to elevate the forum. At least Iansane, perhaps the most autistic poster of all, writes cleanly and coherently, unlike these new pop-ins.
Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.
It doesn't bother me that other opinions exist, a la Brood Wars trolling, but I am getting increasingly awed/irritated at the pathological regurgitation of the exact same same arguments for literally years. I have no idea what people are possibly getting out of it, and it certainly is doing nothing at this point to elevate the forum. At least Iansane, perhaps the most autistic poster of all, writes cleanly and coherently, unlike these new pop-ins.
1. I don't "troll." "Trolling" infers I don't actually believe what I write and just write whatever I think will get a rise out of you. No, I just enjoy the sight of people who seeminglycan't think for themselves, which is what most fanboys are, writhing in despair. "Asshole" would be a more apt description. ;)
2. And what "new pop-ins", would those be? I could probably count on one hand the number of notable new posters on this site in the last year. All of the longstanding Nintendo cynics like myself have been here at least since the start of the Wii years, if we weren't lurkers beforehand.
3. I believe someone here asked why people who have such issues with Nintendo would frequent a Nintendo-centric website. From my perspective, it's the same reason why so many people frequent Xbox Live despite its earned terrible reputation: because it's where their friends are. In NWR's case, it's also where my favorite podcasts are, which I can enjoy without being a Nintendo sycophant. Likewise, it's also possible to be a fan of something in general without being fond of what they're currently doing. Nintendo's like that drug addict in the family in that regard, actually.
You all either enjoy stroking yourselves to your own complaining, or you think every other forum member suffers from short-term memory loss thus requiring reiteration of these same complaints.
What you're doing is the equivalent of standing on a random street corner with a picket sign and a bullhorn.
It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.
It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?
Adrock, I normally like reading your posts but this is pretty harsh. I think both sides of the argument enjoy stroking themselves. You said in your prior post that you could mount a defense based completely on old posts. Both sides regurgitate the same arguments repeatedly. Both sides could let this thread die and let it go. Who cares whether the first or last post was pro/anti-Nintendo. It's not either sides job to educate the other side.I think you're completely missing the point. One side specifically keeps bringing it up. There's no counterargument if the argument isn't rendered to begin with. Additionally, that discussion has had its day, many times in fact. I suppose the counterargument-crowd could take the high-road though I'm not terribly surprised that they don't as this is a Nintendo-centric website. My "random street corner" analogy wasn't entirely accurate. They're going to a specific and carefully chosen street corner with their picket signs and bullhorns, but it's still the wrong street corner.
iAttacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem.Targeting the source of the problem might.
I think you're completely missing the point. One side specifically keeps bringing it up.
There's no counterargument if the argument isn't rendered to begin with. Additionally, that discussion has had its day, many times in fact. I suppose the counterargument-crowd could take the high-road though
We can't have normal discussions here because threads keep being steered toward things that have been discussed to death. I decided not to get involved in that collective nonsense this time and yet have been drawn into a different kind of nonsense though in my defense, I am responding now because you specifically called me out.QuoteiAttacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem.Targeting the source of the problem might.
It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?
I'd say this is more 'echochamber' then discussion.It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?
Because while, in the end, it might be"pointless", at least on forums like this one we can have the discussion. Nintendo isn't interested in discussing anything. They dictate and expect everyone to just fall in line, with the occasional lip service paid to their Japanese investors once or twice a year.
I'd say this is more 'echochamber' then discussion.It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?
Because while, in the end, it might be"pointless", at least on forums like this one we can have the discussion. Nintendo isn't interested in discussing anything. They dictate and expect everyone to just fall in line, with the occasional lip service paid to their Japanese investors once or twice a year.
Either way, I don't think continuing a fight because someone else started it is a good idea.I'm not necessarily condoning it, but I understand why people would defend Nintendo given that this is a Nintendo-centric website. I understand that more than people going to said website with an ax to grind.
I'm not sure their is a moral highground here, we are talking video games after all.Of course there is. Take video games out of it if it makes this easier. By "take the high-road," I meant the counterargument crowd could decide not to argue back. At the same time, people could just not start fights to begin with which prevents the problem entirely.
You seem to not like these Nintendo is doomed discussions. Am I right? I'm more concerned about your sanity than moral highground.First, you claimed in a previous post to hate personal insults then you personally insult me here by questioning my sanity. Nice.
Nobody ever wins these arguments. I mean, I guess I would say if you love these discussions, then yes, respond to every person who criticizes Nintendo and keep extending those threads. Otherwise, just let it go, it's not worth getting riled up and similar to your argument above you can't change anything. 99.99% of the time nobody ever changes their opinion based on a forum reply.This is the second time you've brought this up and I don't understand why you're specifically addressing this to me when I have not directly participated in this latest anti-Nintendo/pro-Nintendo argument, nor have I ever tried to change anyone's opinion in the past. My responses in previous discussions have referred specifically to something that didn't make sense to me, rather than an attempt to persuade them otherwise. My contribution to this thread, however, can be summed up with: Why are we even talking about this again?
Or gave up a long time ago...
QuoteYou seem to not like these Nintendo is doomed discussions. Am I right? I'm more concerned about your sanity than moral highground.First, you claimed in a previous post to hate personal insults then you personally insult me here by questioning my sanity. Nice.
This is the second time you've brought this up and I don't understand why you're specifically addressing this to me when I have not directly participated in this latest anti-Nintendo/pro-Nintendo argument, nor have I ever tried to change anyone's opinion in the past. My responses in previous discussions have referred specifically to something that didn't make sense to me, rather than an attempt to persuade them otherwise. My contribution to this thread, however, can be summed up with: Why are we even talking about this again?
Something, something motion controls. Something, something last generation hardware. Something, something sequels.
I'm pretty sure I just saved at least five people several paragraphs of ranting, but they'll probably write them anyway.
I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY?You're welcome to peruse my post history if you want.
Did you get your clarification on that?No. Not really. You just quoted an obvious joke post meant to illustrate the repetitive nature of these arguments.
I just take issue with the "HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE NINTENDO ON A NINTENDO-CENTRIC WEBSITE" attitude.I really hope this isn't addressed to me because I feel like I've been abundantly clear on this.
No. Not really. You just quoted an obvious joke post meant to illustrate the repetitive nature of these arguments.
This whole unending debate is pointless.. That's all you really had to say, not pick and root for a sick.
It was funny, just grabbed your first quote. I could have grabbed several of your other posts which weren't jokes and clearly blamed one side for this cluster and said we should target them with attacks. Like I said I generally like that you are balanced, but I don't think you've been on this thread. You haven't been drawn into a back and forth argument about specific points, but you've not added much that is helpful in this thread and your side is clear so it's hard to pretend you are neutral.Whether you think I've remained neutral here is really beside the point. Obviously, I disagree, but more importantly, I'd really appreciate if you would kindly not twist my words around. I never said we should target anyone with attacks. The following seems to be what you're referring to so I'll elaborate.
You used the word "attack" while I carefully chose the word "target" in that I am holding the anti-Nintendo side responsible for constantly driving discussions in that direction. That is hardly a call to arms, nor is it me absolving the other side for continuing the back and forth. It seems to me that the easiest way to solve the problem of these never-ending arguments is if we didn't have them in the first place. Since we're all aware of Nintendo's shortcomings, it would be super-fantastic if they weren't repeatedly brought up in so many threads. See? Target the source, nip the argument in the bud before it even blooms. Will it work? It might.Attacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem.Targeting the source of the problem might.
So I say the same thing as ArbockOh wait, that isn't about me.
I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY? Explain it to me why it is so great, I already gave my reasons why it's not.
Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."
Response: "Go buy something else."
That is the same argument that has been hashed and rehashed since the GameCube days in some form or another. I'm just not interested in it again.
What I think is interesting is that Sony is "winning" right now by using Nintendo's playbook. That being, "provide games that appeal to everyone". Nintendo's various decisions have pretty much backed them into the corner of their systems appealing to existing Nintendo fans and few others (with the sales numbers backing that up).
Wii U is a sales turd, but slightly less of one than you make out. GameCube had shipped 9.5 million through _March_, while Wii U was at nearly 6 million through _December_. We don't have a number for Wii U through March yet, and back in 2003 they weren't reporting numbers every quarter so we don't have GameCube through December either.
Within this pissing match a good point was made
I've mainly been responding when me or my posts have implicitly been addressed. Such as:Oh, I'm sorry. I guess the "r" and the "d" are a little too close together... Except wait, that's a "b." Maybe I was thinking of the user Arbok? Hm, I'm probably just making it worse by explaining...So I say the same thing as ArbockOh wait, that isn't about me.
I think Nintendo's philosophy of "making games for everyone" still stands.
I think sometimes they apply it to their own detriment. I.E. MK8 not having in game chat. That's pretty much standard for every system. There concern is obviously kids hearing things they shouldn't hear. That's a valid concern, but they should have more parental lock features that can remove chat for children rather than strip a feature that a large portion of people would like. You could make it the default off feature for parents that are too lazy to set up a game, but ultimately if parents decide they don't care if their 8 year old hears all that is going to be said on the internet then there isn't much you can do. Nintendo can't be a parent for the parent.
Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.
Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.
For me, that's the irony of it: Wii U is the platform where I have BY FAR the most people I'd like to voice chat with.