Author Topic: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?  (Read 16663 times)

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Offline Mario

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2007, 04:03:50 PM »
Most of my friends don't believe it. And I mean that as a matter of fact, they simply dont acknowledge anything good about the Wii. Even the sales facts, they refuse to look at them and just say "yeah whatever, got a PS3 yet?". Doesn't matter what I say because I said good things about the GameCube, and i'm not going out of my way to convince these morons anything, I just smile. This is why Nintendo needs to stay consistent so a lot of people get hit with the reality real hard and so the third parties run out of excuses.

Offline darknight06

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2007, 06:48:23 AM »
What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?  Some people have gotten very hostile about it.  I know a friend of mine who's still entirely dumbfounded about the idea of Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii.  "Okami I can see, but Monster Hunter?  That's a load of crap!  Why on a kids system?! (this is despite the numerous adults 30 and up that I've seen on numerous occasions come in there to ask for a Wii themselves)" "It won't handle the game well at all" (despite the 7 year old PS2 seemed to have no problem with it)  Tell them development costs and all of a sudden they don't want to hear or believe it's the case. This friend is one of many of the Gamestop and EB workers that think and act just like this.  

It's not just the game stores either, their lords, the gaming press as of late has been really interesting to observe.  On what I believe is the latest EGM I remember seeing an article title on the front cover saying something around the lines of Wii Crap.  Unfortunately I haven't been able to actually read the article, but knowing how EGM/1up have been about the Wii lately I already have a hunch as to where it's going.  Game Informer seems to have uped the ante when it comes to anti-establishment games and have managed to become more and more annoying.  Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games was shredded to bits, but one section of the review infuriated me to no end.  I can't remember exactly what it said but the way it put it sounded something like "Graphics:  Primary Colors, HAR HAR HAR! 3."  It made me do a double take and had me asking "What the f*ck is their problem?!"  And truth be told, this ain't the only title they've done like this either.  Paper Mario was trashed because it was supposedly a childs game too, but in both cases I think there was something far more troubling going on.  I remember putting the magazines away long time ago because their definition of a great game and mine were so different to the point where the magazines became irrelevant.  The thing is, the majority of people reading those magazines were the type of gamers that the industry was primarily catering to so to them losing folks like me was probably no big deal since they still in a sense held the ace card.  The thing is, for something like the Wii to take off the way it has means that their very definition of what a game is is being crushed by this new influx of a wide variety of new players.  Carnival Games gets destroyed in the mags and yet it's probably killing them inside to see it sell 300,000 copies and is probably looking to inch on into the 400,000 mark. (I'm not saying the game is 10 out of 10 material or anything, but at the same time something about it must be decent enough for it to make those numbers.  Ditto goes for Mario and Sonic)  It looks to me as if a lot of these guys fear their livelihoods going down the toilet especially with them knowing that Nintendo PURPOSELY sidestepped them to sell the console.  What's happening is that these guys are gradually becoming irrelevant.  Let the Wii gain even more steam, don't be surprised if within the next couple of years either some of these publications will close down or they will change with the coming times.    

Offline IceCold

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2007, 08:39:25 AM »
Very well said darknight.. the whole post  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2007, 08:42:16 AM »
Are WE becoming irrelevant though?

... I'm not! I'm drinking this in!
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Offline Maverick

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2007, 08:55:59 AM »
If anybody here thinks that Carnival Games selling half a million copies is a good thing, then I may just have to put myself in the boat with the Gaming rags.
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Offline UERD

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2007, 09:15:50 AM »
I wouldn't go *that* far, but I think there is a significant difference between 'casual game' and 'crappy game'.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2007, 09:31:42 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: UERD
I wouldn't go *that* far, but I think there is a significant difference between 'casual game' and 'crappy game'.


Yeah, that's true.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2007, 11:07:15 AM »
I think we've yet to see a 3rd party REALLY harness the Wii controller in such a way that truly lives up to its potential. I admit that we've seen some very noble attempts, such as Godfather Wii and Elebits (for as much as I don't feel there was a game there, it did a good job trying).

Give it time, though. I KNOW there are some games on the way that prove that the Wii can not only be a hardcore gaming platform but the BEST hardcore gaming platform.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2007, 11:16:28 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I think we've yet to see a 3rd party REALLY harness the Wii controller in such a way that truly lives up to its potential. I admit that we've seen some very noble attempts, such as Godfather Wii and Elebits (for as much as I don't feel there was a game there, it did a good job trying).

Give it time, though. I KNOW there are some games on the way that prove that the Wii can not only be a hardcore gaming platform but the BEST hardcore gaming platform.


You forgot Zack and Wiki. I haven't played the game myself but reviews claim its the best use of the Wiimote yet.
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Offline Maverick

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2007, 11:54:11 AM »
Don't you just use it like a mouse?  Unless there's more to it that I haven't seen.  

Well there was that one part where you use it to "saw" through some logs that I saw in a video review.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2007, 12:03:34 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Maverick
Don't you just use it like a mouse?  Unless there's more to it that I haven't seen.  

Well there was that one part where you use it to "saw" through some logs that I saw in a video review.


From what I saw you also used the Wiimote as a flute as well as other motions.

Again, I haven't played the game but reviews kept saying it was one of the few third party games with creative Wii controls.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2007, 03:58:30 PM »
It did a good job, but the whole thing wasn't REALLY intrinsic to the gameplay. I'm talking about situations where people play the game and say "You can't do this with a controller."

It would have lost a lot of the appeal, but Z&W could have still be done without it.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2007, 05:09:04 PM »
And video games don't need color TVs.  But let's not water down everything here kay.
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2007, 10:39:20 PM »
I'm hoping the whole Nintendo being the leader again thing will sink into Nintendo Europe/Australia eventually. They seem to still be under the illusion that they're dealing with a failure console. Six month delays were okay with the GameCube, because nobody gave a crap about the system, but hey, people are buying the Wii, and they'd probably like some games.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2007, 04:21:40 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: darknight06
What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?  Some people have gotten very hostile about it.  I know a friend of mine who's still entirely dumbfounded about the idea of Monster Hunter 3 on the Wii.  "Okami I can see, but Monster Hunter?  That's a load of crap!  Why on a kids system?! (this is despite the numerous adults 30 and up that I've seen on numerous occasions come in there to ask for a Wii themselves)" "It won't handle the game well at all" (despite the 7 year old PS2 seemed to have no problem with it)  Tell them development costs and all of a sudden they don't want to hear or believe it's the case. This friend is one of many of the Gamestop and EB workers that think and act just like this.  

It's not just the game stores either, their lords, the gaming press as of late has been really interesting to observe.  On what I believe is the latest EGM I remember seeing an article title on the front cover saying something around the lines of Wii Crap.  Unfortunately I haven't been able to actually read the article, but knowing how EGM/1up have been about the Wii lately I already have a hunch as to where it's going.  Game Informer seems to have uped the ante when it comes to anti-establishment games and have managed to become more and more annoying.  Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games was shredded to bits, but one section of the review infuriated me to no end.  I can't remember exactly what it said but the way it put it sounded something like "Graphics:  Primary Colors, HAR HAR HAR! 3."  It made me do a double take and had me asking "What the f*ck is their problem?!"  And truth be told, this ain't the only title they've done like this either.  Paper Mario was trashed because it was supposedly a childs game too, but in both cases I think there was something far more troubling going on.  I remember putting the magazines away long time ago because their definition of a great game and mine were so different to the point where the magazines became irrelevant.  The thing is, the majority of people reading those magazines were the type of gamers that the industry was primarily catering to so to them losing folks like me was probably no big deal since they still in a sense held the ace card.  The thing is, for something like the Wii to take off the way it has means that their very definition of what a game is is being crushed by this new influx of a wide variety of new players.  Carnival Games gets destroyed in the mags and yet it's probably killing them inside to see it sell 300,000 copies and is probably looking to inch on into the 400,000 mark. (I'm not saying the game is 10 out of 10 material or anything, but at the same time something about it must be decent enough for it to make those numbers.  Ditto goes for Mario and Sonic)  It looks to me as if a lot of these guys fear their livelihoods going down the toilet especially with them knowing that Nintendo PURPOSELY sidestepped them to sell the console.  What's happening is that these guys are gradually becoming irrelevant.  Let the Wii gain even more steam, don't be surprised if within the next couple of years either some of these publications will close down or they will change with the coming times.


Great post. This is exactly the sort of feelings I feared some people were still holding on to in regards to Nintendo. I don't fully understand it and I probably never will. This was one of the reasons why I also have quit reading video gaming magazines (the other reason was that this was during the GC era and it was depressing how very few games made it to the GC).

When it comes down to it, the editors of those magazines aren't really any more qualified to give their opinion of a game than anyone else; and if they are reviewing something with an anti-Nintendo prejudice mentality, then that makes their opinion even worse than the average player. We don't really need them to tell us what to play, because we can figure that out for ourselves thanks to online sources such as this, and also from word of mouth.

So they have become irrelevant, and they are becoming just as niche as the PS3 and 360 consoles they show favoritism towards. I think they are bitter about it, but it is karma.
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Offline Maverick

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2007, 06:43:11 AM »
I have definitely noticed an anti-Wii slant from gaming publications.  A prime example is the "Wii-Crap!" article someone mentioned above.  I subscribe to EGM so I read it and I didn't like it at all.  I've mentioned the article before, and like I said then, look at all the absolute trash that was released for the PS2.  I don't remember seeing any articles about it, and definitely not on the front cover.  

It's like, all of the sudden since Nintendo's on top it's not okay to be like Sony was last gen.  I have also noticed a disturbing trend of separating Wii owners into a different group from 360/PS3 owners, like they "don't count".

Then again I've also noticed on here that people constantly refer to 360/PS3ers as a "niche crowd".  I don't know what world they live in, but a LOT of people own and enjoy 360s.  PS3, I can see, but the impression I've gotten is that the 360 is a powerful force in the market.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2007, 06:45:44 AM »
I noticed the anit-Nintendo sensibilities from waaay back even before this. It was one of the things that marred the otherwise excellent Next-Generation magazine.
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Offline Maverick

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2007, 09:00:03 AM »
I LOVED Next-Gen!  My very first magazine subscription ever.  I still have the issue with Link and Solid Snake on the cover, talking about how two of the greatest games ever made were released at the same time or something like that.  Man, I wish the mag was still running.  EGM is okay but like I said, sometimes they do stupid stuff like the "Wii Crap" article and hyping Halo 3 forever and then not reviewing it the month it comes out.  :-P
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2007, 09:40:37 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
And video games don't need color TVs.  But let's not water down everything here kay.


I'm not trying to suggest that the game wouldn't be awkward and irritating with standard controls because it definitely would.

I'm just saying that there are gaming ideas which require (and I mean REQUIRE) the remote and nunchuk to work but we haven't seen many yet. I think Wii Boxing is probably the best example to date in that moving the fists around with the necessary level of precision would not be possible without the mote+chuk combo.

The concept is still evolving. The first stage will always be retrofitting the controls to known genres. The next step is generating entirely new ones.
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Offline vudu

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2007, 07:19:36 AM »
There will never be a game that requires the remote/nunchuk to work.  Gameplay can always be sacrificed in order to make it work with a standard controller (e.g. RRR port for PS2).  Wii Boxing could easily be simulated with button presses and analog stick movements.  It would suck, but it could be done.  The best you can ask for is a game that works better with the remote/nunchuk than it would with a standard controller, and so far we've gotten a few of them.

The same can be said about DS games--most people point to Canvas Curse and EBA as two games that couldn't be done on any other system.  The fact is, with some serious gameplay changes both could be reworked for a standard controller.  
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Offline EasyCure

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RE:What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2007, 08:45:11 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
There will never be a game that requires the remote/nunchuk to work.  Gameplay can always be sacrificed in order to make it work with a standard controller (e.g. RRR port for PS2).  Wii Boxing could easily be simulated with button presses and analog stick movements.  It would suck, but it could be done.  The best you can ask for is a game that works better with the remote/nunchuk than it would with a standard controller, and so far we've gotten a few of them.

The same can be said about DS games--most people point to Canvas Curse and EBA as two games that couldn't be done on any other system.  The fact is, with some serious gameplay changes both could be reworked for a standard controller.



but with "some serious gameplay changes," you wouldnt have either of those titles. I see your point and i know what you're trying to say but the thing is the gameplay of those games you mentioned are what make the games. i can picture wii boxing being controlled with a standar controller* but ya know what? it just wouldnt be wii boxing. it'd be punch out or something. people were blown away by wii boxing (wii sports in general) because of the controls, and the gameplay was ALL in the controls. all you do in the game is throw punches and block. theres no options to mess with. theres no different match types to try out. you just throw punches and knock the other guy out. tahts all the gameplay is, and its fun because of the controls.

*want to know how to get wii boxing to play using a standard controller? i picture it like this: throw punches using L and R triggers while adjusting the aim of your punches with dual analogue sticks. simple no? but its not wii boxing, it wouldnt recapture that magic w/o the motion controls
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2007, 09:07:06 AM »
To summarize, it's not about if a game can be done without the Wii Remote Air-Wang Detection.  It's about if a game lacks it and becomes a lame lifeless abortion of its Wii-enhanced-vision, it automatically sucks.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2007, 11:38:30 AM »
It's hardest for me to imagine Canvas Curse on any console other than the DS.. well, maybe the Wii.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: What do people say about Nintendo being market leader again?
« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2007, 10:18:42 AM »
edit: argh.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.