Topic: The more I think about it...

[Smash_Brother]

...the more Snake's neck snap bugs me.



I know, I know: it's just a game, it's silly and ridiculous to be bothered by polygons interacting with each other.

And I know SSB is about violence at its core, but this is the first time we've seen a move which would, IRL, be indicative of lethality.

Yes, I know there are plenty of sword users in the game and swords are for stabbing and hacking, but the swords are handled in a non-realistic way: Link never impales Mario on his sword then pulls it back, leaving Mario to collapse to the ground.

I realize the implication of death is everywhere in Mario games, but never in a manner as graphic as this.

I have a hard time believing that Miyamoto okayed this. I understand the desire to appeal to older gamers, but making it so you can perform a neck snap on Nintendo's most beloved mascot seems to be a cheap way of doing that.

[Dirk Temporo]

SPOILERS: Miyamoto doesn't have to okay it, because he has nothing to do with the game.

[HadesGigas]

Don't be such a pussy.

[Mashiro]

Aside from the swords . . . people get put on fire/ hit with fire and come out of it ok. They also get smashed with lightning and end up fine. What's the big deal.

Removing his guns were enough and I don't think this is a move that was made to appeal to older gamers. If they wanted to do so they would have left in some real guns with snake.

Nothing major here IMHO.

Edit: Oh . . . and (just to be a jerk) "I realize the implication of death is everywhere in Mario games, but never in a manner as graphic as this.". I dunno . . . have you played New Super Mario Bros.? Bowser's skin literally burns off of his body and becomes a skeleton after you collapse the bridge out from under him and he falls into lava. It's pretty messed up if you think about it.

[UERD]

Nintendo is pre-emptively declaring Manhunt 2 a success, that's all.

Jim Raynor as a marine is the other third-party character. When he dies, his head pops off and he explodes into a bloody ring of guts and body parts.

[Stogi]

Wow....

I was not expecting to see that!


I've seen far worse things in a videogame. Mortal Kombat had DISMEMBERMENT.

[KDR_11k]

The lava burning Bowser's skin is probably a reference to Super Metroid's Crocomire.

[Bill Aurion]

Or a reference to the fact that it's not actually Bowser falling in the lava at all...

(Snake gently lays Mario down, which really does put a huge dampener on the "violent" nature of the move, which I still say isn't snapping his neck...)

[Mario]

I agree I hate it too. Snake is ruining the game and Nintendos image

[Darkheart]

I say we write a letter to Jack Thompson and tell him to rally Nintendo to get this move removed.  I never asked for killing simulators in my smash.

[NWR_pap64]

What I don't get is that they were anal about Snake's guns and knives yet they kept the neck snapping move. Isn't that a tad hypocritical on Nintendo's behalf? The neck snapping thing doesn't bug me that much but its certainly disturbing that they are proudly displaying it around on their site and when Konami kept showing it off during their presentation.

[Michael8983]

Yeah, it kind of looks like he's sleeping peacefully after the attack too. It does suck to see what is practically a Sony mascot defeat MARIO but that will make it all the more fun to play the real game in a couple months and kick Snake's tight ass.

Besides, I think there's a good chance the move will be removed from the US version and I think it's almost certain the "naked Samus" bit will be.

[HadesGigas]

Why would it be removed if they were showing it off? Especially the cutscene you're talking about. They had to re-record it in English specifically for US/Europe. There's no way it's not gonna be in.

[couchmonkey]

Naked Samus? Maybe you're referring to when her armour falls off...I don't think she's naked, it's just that her jumpsuit is skin tight so she might as well be.

The neck snap is kind of disturbing, but I'm guessing you'll barely notice when you're playing the game as it won't be shown at a nice, close angle in slow-mo.  I am a little surprised it got past Nintendo so far.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
SPOILERS: Miyamoto doesn't have to okay it, because he has nothing to do with the game.

I would be absolutely amazed if Miyamoto wasn't okaying everything that one of his characters was in.

If he was inspecting Mario and Sonic Olympics for how it handled his characters, why would he not be bothered by something like this?

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
The neck snap is kind of disturbing, but I'm guessing you'll barely notice when you're playing the game as it won't be shown at a nice, close angle in slow-mo.  I am a little surprised it got past Nintendo so far.

I'm hoping it'll be very, very hard to notice, but this actually makes me wonder if Sakurai really did get total free reign of the game and Nintendo has no say on it (which I still can't imagine).

Quote
Snake gently lays Mario down, which really does put a huge dampener on the "violent" nature of the move, which I still say isn't snapping his neck...

That's what he does in TS after breaking a guard's neck: he places them quietly on the ground so as not to alert other guards.

As for the issue, OMG! Mortal Kombat had DISMEMBERMENT?!? REALLY!?

I don't care what other games had as they're not the basis of comparison here. The question is what is appropriate for a SSB game and I don't think this is.

If I want to snap necks, I'll play MGS, but there's a fundamental difference between MGS games and Nintendo's games and snapping the necks of Nintendo characters is just doesn't compute in some fundamental part of how I view and enjoy gaming.

Watching Mario and all the other Smash playables having their necks snapped is going to be unsettling...

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
That's what he does in TS after breaking a guard's neck: he places them quietly on the ground so as not to alert other guards.

You know, I find it hilarious that I have to mention this at all, but there's really no need to be "not alerting" anyone in an open brawl...Joke move confirmed... =)  

[mantidor]

I don't like it either.

But the game still gives me the opportunity to use gigglypuff HE WILL  BE IN THE GAME, I  DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY to beat the crap out of snake, to sleep him and humilliate him so I will just ignore this neck thing.

[Mashiro]

Quote
The question is what is appropriate for a SSB game and I don't think this is.

I don't see the big deal and I think it should be left in the game.

::shrugs::

People like to overreact about many . . . many things. IMHO.

[Smash_Brother]

How is it overreacting to not like watching a time-honored gaming icon having his neck snapped?

It's ironic because it reminds me of the kind of thing an angsty Sony fan would put in a flash animation to piss off Nintendo lovers.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
How is it overreacting to not like watching a time-honored gaming icon having his neck snapped?

It's ironic because it reminds me of the kind of thing an angsty Sony fan would put in a flash animation to piss off Nintendo lovers.

Yeah, there are fans that are saying "OMG THIS IS HILARIOUS!!!!! SNAKE ROCKS!". If Sony or a Sony fanboy had done this they would be saying "OMG YOU F*CKING SUCK! DIEEEEEEEE!!".

[Mashiro]

Quote
How is it overreacting to not like watching a time-honored gaming icon having his neck snapped?

I'm sorry I thought Smash Brothers was a FIGHTING GAME in which VIOLENCE happens. I guess I had the wrong game ::rolls eyes::

Again how is this different than getting:

• Hit with missiles
• Blasted with Fire
• Slashed with swords
• Getting hit with cars (see: F-Zero Stage, Earthbound stage)
• Smashed in the face by a fist
• Hit with volts of electricity
• Smashed over the head and driven into the earth because the force of the attack is so strong
• Hit in the face with a baseball bat

Again, overreacting.  

[Caterkiller]

Sheash, is it really so bad? I think some peoples pride get hurt more than anything else. Yeah its out of the ordinary for a smash bros game, but hey times change. If thats what Snake does in his games, let him do it here.  

[LuigiHann]

I think the real question here is: What will it look like when he uses that move on Kirby??

[Mashiro]

I have a question for S_B actually:

Did you own a GC (I know the answer) if so . . . did you purchase Soul Calibur 2?

Cause I seem to remember another Nintendo icon being put into a very violent game with plenty of real life fighting techniques that would kill anyone in real life.

If Nintendo didn't have an issue with that, why would they have an issue with this?

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro

Quote
How is it overreacting to not like watching a time-honored gaming icon having his neck snapped?

I'm sorry I thought Smash Brothers was a FIGHTING GAME in which VIOLENCE happens. I guess I had the wrong game ::rolls eyes::

Again how is this different than getting:

• Hit with missiles
• Blasted with Fire
• Slashed with swords
• Getting hit with cars (see: F-Zero Stage, Earthbound stage)
• Smashed in the face by a fist
• Hit with volts of electricity
• Smashed over the head and driven into the earth because the force of the attack is so strong
• Hit in the face with a baseball bat

Again, overreacting.

Here's the thing, though. Sakurai has stated that Snake wouldn't be using any of his real world weapons, like guns and knifes, in Brawl and would focus on more unrealistic weapons and moves. If I am not mistaken, they even took the same approach when working on Fox's LASER gun. Clearly, the SSB team thought that Nintendo characters getting attacked by real world weapons and moved seemed a tad too violent and violent and focused on more fantasy when working on Snake's moves.

So I find it surprising that this move made it to the final game. Maybe they are assuming that his the move only does damage it doesn't represent death in any way.

And once more, it IS disturbing to see. It doesn't bug me as much as it bugs S_B but I find it weird how KONAMI kept showing the footage up. I mean, if Master Chief was in the game I would find it insulting if in the footage he was tea bagging Mario or any other character.

Simply put, people are so excited for this game that anyone that says otherwise gets ridiculed. If S_B feels that Snake snapping Mario's neck is not cool then he has the right to say it.

In short, nothing bad can't be discussed as its being stupid, pessimistic or overreacting. And frankly, you are not being a gentleman about it.