Topic: Casual Encounter

[oksoda]

Is Nintendo leaving behind the audience that Wii Sports created?

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/31630

In just a couple of days, all of our questions about the Wii U will be answered. Price, launch date, different bundles, launch games; these are the details Nintendo will finally be sharing after staying silent at E3 this year. However, there’s one question that’s been on my mind over the past few months, and I think it’s one we’ll have a clearer answer to after Thursday: where does the audience that Wii Sports created fit into the scheme of things?

I’ve noted it a few times on Connectivity, but I was shocked that there was no mention of a “Wii Sports U” at E3 this year. The Wii, for better or worse, is synonymous with Wii Sports, much in the same way Mario was with the NES. Though its charm has most likely faded with you, the reader of an enthusiast press site such as this one, there is no denying the strength of the brand and what it did to continuously propel the Wii to the top of the NPD charts for several years after launch.

So what gives? At first, I thought perhaps Wii Sports Resort had failed to sell particularly well, but according to Nintendo’s own fiscal results, the game has sold over 30 million copies worldwide as of March of this year. To put that number into context, Super Mario Galaxy has sold just over 10 million copies worldwide while having a two year head start on Resort. Clearly, the brand still has cachet. Its omission from the launch of the Wii U is glaring.

It's weird, too, when you consider that we know Wii Sports U exists in some form or another. When the Wii U was first announced at E3 2011, some uses of the GamePad were illustrated via Wii Sports, such as aiming and throwing a pitch or looking down at a golf ball on a tee before swinging. Several other tech demos for the Wii U from that year have popped up in other places, such as Nintendo Land, so it's not likely that Nintendo simply scrapped the Wii Sports-themed demos. It's possible that Nintendo couldn't figure out a way to use the GamePad in an engaging way across a series of different sports-related mini-games, but it's more likely that they are simply waiting to bring Wii Sports back at another time. But how will launching the game separately and further down the road from the Wii U appeal to people who thought the Wii was the same thing as Wii Sports, not a platform for other games?

It’s not that I’m necessarily pining for another Wii Sports game, but there is a whole market out there, which Nintendo helped create with Wii Sports, that simply isn’t targeted by the Wii U’s apparent launch line-up. Nintendo Land is great for lifelong Nintendo fans who want to learn the ins and outs of the new hardware with a game draped in nostalgia, but I promise you that my mom isn’t the least bit moved that Metroid and F-Zero are represented in the game. Moreover, the games of Nintendo Land aren’t going to be familiar to someone who hasn’t played video games before. This is the complete opposite of Wii Sports’ mantra.

The hardware itself, particularly the GamePad, isn’t helping matters, either. The Wii U seems to be targeting a younger, more tech-savvy generation who will come in with some amount of experience with motion and touch-based input systems. Further still, the inclusive, casual gestures of the original Wii Remote have been replaced by the ultra-precise Wii Motion Plus, requiring a greater finesse in use. This technology will seem absolutely foreign to an older audience which was able to easily pick up the Wii Remote and play a game of bowling.

The Wii U seems like it isn’t going to hit the same audience that the Wii did, but I’m starting to wonder if that’s by design. If one wants proof that Nintendo is focusing its efforts back towards more traditional games, he need look no further than the 3DS. Touch Generations, the branding under which more casual-friendly software would arrive for the original DS, has been discontinued, and I’m hard-pressed to think of any games for the 3DS, apart from Nintendogs + Cats, that strike the same level of wide appeal as those Touch Generations games did. Meanwhile, the spotlight has been on games like New Super Mario Bros. 2, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, and Luigi’s Mansion Dark Moon; games which certainly have a large audience, but not of the same makeup as one which we associate with the likes of Brain Age.

Come Thursday, we are going to know a whole lot about the Wii U. Assuming that Nintendo doesn’t throw a curve ball (no pun intended) and announce Wii Sports U as a pack-in title at launch, I think we’ll also know a good deal about Nintendo’s intentions with Wii U.  For all those who have clamored for Nintendo to take a greater stake in creating more traditional gaming experiences, it would appear they've listened. Sure, there's SiNG and Wii Fit U to try and fill the void of Wii Sports, but games like these succeeded on the Wii because everyone had already bought one to play the pack-in game. Will the same be true about the Wii U? I'm doubting it.

[Nbz]

Great article Scott! I really agree with you that casual Wii Sports audience are going to have a tough time being convinced of buying a Wii U, based solely on the draw of Nintendo Land. That game, though potentially very fun and interesting is almost the polar opposite of what Wii Sports represented. While Wii Sports was not only familiar and intuitive to the casual market, Nintendo Land is strange, complicated and not necessarily appealing. For this reason I doubt that there will be many day 1 adopters who aren't already planning on buying a system anyway. However, if Nintendo want to keep that market then they inevitably have to bring out a sequel at some point, which is well within the realms of possibility. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Bman87301]

I think you may be jumping to conclusions about the Wii U's target audience a bit too soon... We still don't know the what the final package(s) will be or what it/they will contain. I highly doubt think they would have kept the "Wii" branding unless they had continued intent on heavy marketing to the casual crowd.

Sure, there may not be a Wii Sports game at launch (that we know of), but Wii Fit U is a very strong possibility (frankly, I think it's likely those 'Wii Sports demos' will just be a part of Wii Fit U). If that three SKU report proves to be true, it's very likely that a white Wii Fit U bundle is one of them (or possibly even two-- one contain could contain the balance board, and another would exclude it, then the other could be a black gamer-focused one with either NintendoLand, or no game at all). If so, Wii U would still have its big casual pack-in.

As for the 3DS, sure, Nintendo has definitely shifted gears towards the more hardcore audience on the handheld front, but at the same time the casual market has pretty much collapsed there due to the rise of mobile gaming. Keeping that in mind, I'd say it could be seen as a better indication that Nintendo will likely be focusing its casual efforts even more so on Wii U since the console front would be the only viable place left to capitalize on the casual market.

Nintendo's definitely making a harder push for the more hardcore developers this time around since they largely missed them with the first Wii, but that hardly means they're planning any less support to the casual crowd with the Wii U... Sure we've seen less focus on its casual uses, but that also could easily just be that Nintendo learned its lesson by over demonstrating Wii Sports last time around so they purposely avoided showing such games during E3, etc. and, as you mentioned,  they could very well surprise us all in the end and still reveal a previously-unannounced Wii Sports U game for launch anyway. Just a thought.

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo ditching the casuals seems too good to be true.  I'm waiting and seeing how the Wii U does.

Nintendo Land has the Miis and tech demo design of a casual title with characters that only more dedicated videogame enthusiasts will be familiar with.  I think it's just Nintendo losing their focus as the two elements seem to contradict each other with neither audience being truly satisfied.  The Wii U doesn't seem like a hardcore or casual console but rather a lost one.  The name, the look, stuff like the Miiverse all comes across as casual focused but the games seem more core.  However the whole Gamepad seems to follow the DS/Wii model of using a gimmick to attract casuals.  If you want the core why bother with something like that?  Core gamers typically think of the Wii remote and Kinect as casual.

They were kind of lost with the 3DS.  They thought this insane price point would go over well and it didn't.  They thought 3D would hook casuals in like candy and it didn't.  I think they caught lightning in a bottle last gen but have no idea how to recreate that success.  The Wii and DS were a perfect storm.

[Kairon]

I actually believe Nintendo when they talk about Nintendo Land as their attempt at a "Wii Sports" for the Wii U. I think that Nintendo Land represents an effort by Nintendo to get newer and less active gamers introduced to more traditional and complex forms of play, especially as Nintendo said that they were definitely trying to make each attraction more like full fledged "games", in what I assume is an implied comparison to the sports in Wii Sports.

[Ceric]

I'll read everyone elses comments in a bit.

I think Nintendo did the math.  If the Margin on the WiiU is small, which be all indications it is, then they need an audience that will be a source of purchases beyond the system.  They need the people who are constantly buying video games to sustain profits.  I hoping this indicated that Nintendo learned from the Wii that yes they can expand into having there system in peoples home but it doesn't mean anything if they don't get buy-in beyond that.  Suffice it to say Wii Sports may have been to good of a game in Nintendo eyes.  You don't want a game that huge replayability, modest price, and easily wins people time.  That's just makes a customer look at the price of additional software and think that in this case Wii Sports is good enough.  They never found that secret Conversion potion.

So honestly who could blame them for changing there tact?

[LittleIrves]

I agree with Scott that NintendoLand, to those folks who bought a "Wii Sports" machine and nothing else, is unappealing or at least full of relatively unknown reference points. Why would Mrs. Thompson care about Metroid? But what if she did? What if she bought this Wii U thing for some reason (it's a TV remote! And I could videochat with my son on it!) and then she plays this weird "NintendoLand" game and, lo and behold, gets sucked into Metroid Blast. And then a message comes up on the Wii U GamePad: 'Like this? Try downloading "Super Metroid" for SNES.' So mom does. And loves it. (Because I don't care who you are, Super Metroid is brilliant.) And suddenly we've taken a non-gamer into someone who might be interested in a new Metroid game that comes out in Fall 2013 and retails for $59.99.


Now, this is quite unlikely. But NLand could certainly be the ultimate bridge title if it works, introducing all of these characters and franchises to people who've never paid them much attention.

[Ian Sane]

The theory about using Nintendo Land to bring the non-gamer to the rest of Nintendo's IP seems realistic.  But I question if it would work.  Super Metroid, for example, is an incredibly unaccessible game, so much so that Nintendo has felt the need to hit everyone over the head with obvious "hints" in all Metroid games since then.  My mom would be absolutely fucking lost.  Maybe Super Metroid is just a bad example but I question if non-gamers would find that series or Zelda or anything other than Mario worth trying.

The immediate appeal of Metroid is you've got this person in a space suit with a gun arm fighting aliens.  If that grabs your interest you're either a kid or a bit of a geek and that means you're a gamer.  Same with Zelda.  If an Elf fighting goblins with a sword and shield attracts your interest, you're probably already playing games.  It isn't like the Wii Sports-only crowd wasn't aware of these games on the Wii.  Nintendo had ads on TV and if they went to the store to buy Wii Fit or Wii Sports Resort all these other Wii games would be staring them in the face.

Who is this target market?  We're talking about someone who deep down would really like games but for whatever reason never tried them until Wii Sports but then DIDN'T decide to expand their gaming palette on the Wii but will on the Wii U.  Do these people exist?  There was the idea on the Wii that non-gamers could become gamers but that didn't seem to happen (or did but not the extent Ninendo expected).  Well, will they ever?  I don't think it was just ignorance that kept them away.

I think if Wii Sports was your first game, unless you were a kid, you're not interested in what a typical videogame provides.  I don't think anyone who would like Metroid or Zelda or Star Fox or F-Zero or whatever is just unaware of such games and has just stuck to Wii Sports.  Now, that doesn't mean this isn't Nintendo's plan.  I think it could be, I just don't think it will work.

[Kairon]

Yeah, as always, it remains to be seen just how successful Nintendo's attempt is. (SO EXCITING!) For the Wii, I was really hoping that something like Kirby would all of a sudden explode in popularity as a successful Bridge game (silly me &P), but instead it was NSMBWii and Mario Kart Wii that can possibly be argued to be the best "bridging" examples since they are right up there in sales with Wii Play and Wii Sports Resort.

[rlse9]

I agree that the 3DS is different since the casual handheld gaming market is slowing down with smart phones and tablets gaining so much popularity.  In that way, they really didn't have that much of a choice.  With the WiiU they do, and if I were guessing, I still think they're going to try to go after both the casual and core markets.

I haven't played Nintendo Land so maybe I'm wrong but I think it still could attract the casual crowd.  Maybe not to the extent of Wii Sports but I'm not sure they'll ever re-create that.  If the games are fun to play, I'm not sure that it matters if they know what Metroid or F-Zero are and it adds more for people who are Nintendo fans.  I could see it being their attempt to attract the casual crowd while still giving the core audience something they want and not what they feel like is a watered down casual experience.  I think Nintendo has to continue to try to attract the casual crowd because after the Wii and the fact that they're coming out early and are no doubt going to be under-powered once the next X-Box and Playstation come out, attracting enough of the core crowd to be successful would be a major challenge.

[TeaHee]

I almost wonder if Nintendo would be better off not releasing a Wii U Sports right away.  They are going to sell plenty of systems this Christmas to early adopters (probably).  Then next Christmas almost have a second release with WiiU Sports to bring in the casual market.  Also, by then some of the kids have experienced Nintendo Land at a neighbors house and want it creating even more demand.


And as we know the launch is the best time to release a new property like Nintendo Land why overshadow it with a proven product like Wii U Sports.


As an aside if Nintendo Land doesn't have dlc by next Christmas then Nintendo needs a boot to the head.

[AV]

Great article.


I hope that some of the unrevealed minigames in Nintendoland are Wii Sports. That way it has it all.

[Phil]

"Nintendo ditching the casuals seems too good to be true.  I'm waiting and seeing how the Wii U does."

I'm sorry, but you act like with the Wii Nintendo was devoting all their resources to that group when that couldn't be further from the truth. This post could be read like someone who is incredibly selfish and cries foul any time a company dares to not devote 100% of their resources to them -- i.e. a typical gamer.

[S-U-P-E-R]

"Nintendo ditching the casuals seems too good to be true.  I'm waiting and seeing how the Wii U does."

I'm sorry, but you act like with the Wii Nintendo was devoting all their resources to that group when that couldn't be further from the truth. This post could be read like someone who is incredibly selfish and cries foul any time a company dares to not devote 100% of their resources to them -- i.e. a typical gamer.

I'm very interested in what ways you think Nintendo has been targeting anybody but casuals with the Wii.

[thedefalcos]

@ Phil:


I'm a huge Wii fan. Own 40+ Wii games and I only own a Wii.  No PS360 for me. But, I gotta say that the only two games that were Nintendo MADE that were designed for the non-casuals were Metroid Prime 3 and Skyward Sword. You could argue that SSB was not for the casual, but I think that game was always meant for the casuals with deeper gameplay for those who wanted more.  And Xenoblade was made by a Nintendo owned property, so that counts, but that came from a franchise that pre-dates Nintendo ownership. Still, though, four games? That's it?  Mario Galaxy... ehhh... that game was super easy. I'm not convinced that it was designed with the hardcore solely in mind.


Nintendo's whole strategy has been blue ocean from the start. They purposefully pursued with passion the non-gamer. It's kept them in business and it's kept them delivering at least some games we've all come to love on the Wii.

[oksoda]

Why would Mrs. Thompson care about Metroid? But what if she did? What if she bought this Wii U thing for some reason (it's a TV remote! And I could videochat with my son on it!) and then she plays this weird "NintendoLand" game and, lo and behold, gets sucked into Metroid Blast. And then a message comes up on the Wii U GamePad: 'Like this? Try downloading "Super Metroid" for SNES.' So mom does. And loves it. (Because I don't care who you are, Super Metroid is brilliant.) And suddenly we've taken a non-gamer into someone who might be interested in a new Metroid game that comes out in Fall 2013 and retails for $59.99.

I think you've seen this scene too many times! http://youtu.be/K2mpHD7xjeg?t=40m10s

For the record, I'm incredibly excited about Nintendo Land. But it's not going to draw people in the way Wii Sports did, there's no way. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that, but my point is that I think Nintendo is aware and prepared for a certain population of Wii owners not to carry over to the Wii U. As Ceric pointed out, that could be calculated, as the Wii Sports crowd may not have ever bothered purchasing other software. Either way, it's going to be interesting to see who adopts the Wii U and just how widespread its appeal is.

[Bman87301]

I'm very interested in what ways you think Nintendo has been targeting anybody but casuals with the Wii.

The inclusion of GameCube compatibility for one, as well as the following games:
Zelda: Twilight Princess*, Zelda: Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime 3/Metroid Prime Trilogy*, Metroid: Other M, Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Xenoblade Chronicles, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Battalion Wars 2

Not to mention games we know Nintendo pushed third parties to make:
Manhunt 2, Bully: Scholarship Edition, Monster Hunter Tri, Conduit, Conduit 2

Nintendo made a clear effort to target all audiences including typical gamers. Sadly, third parties refused to take it seriously and flooded the system with cheap party games which didn't make it easy for Wii to maintain a hardcore audience. Nevertheless, nearly half of Nintendo's 1st and 2nd party efforts were non-casual, so it definitely wasn't for a lack of trying on Nintendo's part.

*It may have been developed for GameCube, but they did make a Wii specific version and marketed it for Wii, and it clearly wasn't casual by any stretch of the imagination.

[Chocobo_Rider]

I'm sorry, but could we please try and be smart enough to talk about market focus as "shifting" and not "abandoning" in a 180* direction every other day?!  People still talk about the Wii U as "abandoning" hardcore gamers because it isn't powerful enough, doesn't have multi-touch, doesn't focus entirely on M-rated titles, etc!!  Nintendo can't be blamed for "abandoning" everyone!  (Especially when their products still sell as well as they do).

Yea, maybe Nintendo isn't going as blue ocean as they did in the past. Maybe they have good reasons for that.  Maybe it will get them a longer, slower burn instead of a huge explosion like the Wii.  That does not indicate the "abandoning" of anyone.  Maybe the Wii Sports crowd will get 2 games a year instead of 4.  Oh, no!  ... sending a smaller rescue ship is not abandoned.  Sending no ship is abandoned.

I'm so sick of gaming journalism constantly being sensationalist at the cost of reason.  Sorry to single you out, Scott, I don't recall having issue with anything in particular you've written before, so, do your best not to take it entirely personally and realize that my outrage is due to a larger issue, not just your one article.  That said, I have faith all gaming journalists can do better, and that just happens to include you.

@Phil

Agreed. Spot on, sir.

[marty]

I find the idea that there is a "casual market" flawed and completely unsupported by reality.  I see all gamers as people with particular tastes that aren't satisfied by every game.  If a particular taste goes unsatisfied for a long time (like 2d platformers or pick-up and play sports games), there will be a large appetite for them once a game company actually does release them.  There's a glut of unsold shovelware for every system because publishers refuse to acknowledge that people know what they like and can see when they're not being offered a quality product.


People say causal gamer as an insult.  It's hilarious.  Like someone that's not satisfied by OMG GRPAHX EPIX STORY, MIYAMOJO'S NEXT GAMEEE is somehow a moron.  No one with a backlog is a smarter consumer than anyone with a Wii Bowling machine.

[NWR_Neal]

@NinSage

Scott was merely saying that he's surprised that there is no direct Wii Sports-like game hitting at launch. There doesn't seem to be a game that addresses that audience. Nintendo wants that game to be Nintendo Land, but I don't think it can have the same impact. There doesn't seem to be a Wii Sports-like game at launch, which means that Nintendo is indeed abandoning that audience, albeit likely temporarily.

So, um, don't be sensationalist at the cost of reason in your response, either. : :


EDIT: Also, you're the only person (outside of my reply) that used the word abandon on this page.

[Luigi Dude]

Traditional Games Nintendo released on the Wii similar to games Nintendo released on previous systems

Excite Truck
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Super Paper Mario
Mario Party 8
Pokémon Battle Revolution
Mario Strikers Charged
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
Battalion Wars 2
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Super Mario Galaxy
Link's Crossbow Training
Endless Ocean
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Mario Kart Wii
Wario Land: Shake It!
Fatal Frame 4
Captain Rainbow
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Mario Super Sluggers
Excitebots: Trick Racing
Punch-Out!!
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories
Takt of Magic
Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Super Mario Galaxy 2
PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
Metroid: Other M
Kirby's Epic Yarn
FlingSmash
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Zangeki no Reginleiv
Mario Sports Mix
Pandora's Tower
Kirby's Return to Dream Land
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Fortune Street
Rhythm Heaven Fever
PokéPark 2: Wonders Beyond
Mario Party 9
Xenoblade Chronicles
Fatal Frame 2
The Last Story



Games aimed at the new blue ocean non gaming casuals

Wii Sports
Wii Play
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Wii Sports Resort
Wii Fit Plus
Wii Play: Motion




Seriously, this argument about Nintendo focusing on casuals with the Wii was always bullshit and still is.  As I show once again, the majority of the games Nintendo released were the same types of games they released long before the Wii and will continue to release on the Wii U.  Nintendo's not abandoning casuals because they were never aiming soley at casuals in the first place.  Just because they released a few games aimed at this audience doesn't mean ****.  By that same logic, that would mean since Nintendo released Xenoblade and The Last Story they were focused mostly on RPG gamers on the Wii.  Of course no one would say that since those two games are basically the only two RPG's Nintendo released on the Wii  See how this works people, just because Nintendo released a few games aimed at a certain audience, doesn't mean they were mostly focused on just that audience.


Plus I'm sorry but this thread is kind of pointless since Nintendo is releasing a new Wii Fit at launch which is more popular with the casual blue ocean audience then Wii Sports was.  Wii Fit as a standalone game sold way more then Wii Sports Resort did as a standalone and pack in.  Yes the original Wii Sports sold the best but that's because it was packed in with all Wii in America and Europe for several years.  In actual standalone retail sales, Wii Fit was the more popular series.  The reason they aren't releasing a new Wii Sports at launch is because they're releasing a new Wii Fit instead.  It's that simple people, nothing more, nothing less.

[NWR_Neal]

For the record, I'm not on board with this "omfg wii was teh awful for hardcore" side of things.

I just do agree that there is a hole for that casual/blue ocean/whatever-you-want-to-call-it audience in the Wii U launch without a Wii Sports game.

I'd say Wii Fit U helps the absence, but considering the wealth of on-par/better fitness games on the market, Wii Fit U isn't as huge of a deal as Wii Sports. Nintendo produced the two best sports game collections. Wii Fit was bested by EA Sports Active, and likely some other stuff, too. There is no doubt that Wii Fit U will sell well, but I just don't believe it is as important as a new Wii Sports.

Also, I might be wrong, but I'm not expecting Wii Fit U at launch. We'll find that out tomorrow, though.

[BeautifulShy]

Neal I know you are smarter then this but Ian was saying ditching and that is another way of saying abandon. Also how are you so sure that they haven't wanted to go deeper down the gaming hole as it were instead of sticking with Wii Sports type games? I mean it is a really great game but there is other things and I am sure they very well could have explored the options of the Wii and its library? There is tons of bridge games on it that can cross the divide.

[NWR_Neal]

Neal I know you are smarter then this but Ian was saying ditching and that is another way of saying abandon. Also how are you so sure that they haven't wanted to go deeper down the gaming hole as it were instead of sticking with Wii Sports type games? I mean it is a really great game but there is other things and I am sure they very well could have explored the options of the Wii and its library? There is tons of bridge games on it that can cross the divide.

Scott didn't say abandon or ditch. NinSage directly called out and decried Scott.

And I'd say the hope for bridge games crossing the divide relies on hopes and opinions, making this conversation we are having very relevant. I don't think Nintendo Land will be the bridge game Nintendo wants it to be. I hope it is, but I don't think that will happen.

[oksoda]

@NinSage

No offense taken whatsoever. The point of this editorial was to generate conversation about something I haven't noticed much of anyone talking about: what I consider to be Nintendo's re-focus on more traditional gaming experiences. I framed that around the lack of a new Wii Sports game which was THE game that defined the Wii and introduced a whole new group of people to video games, a group which I don't think will have interest in Nintendo Land. I'm not up in arms about it or trying to raise any alarms, I just think it's something worth talking about upon the precipice of learning full details about the Wii U's launch.

@Luigi Dude

I'm with you about the Wii having a great selection of games, despite the widespread misconception that it doesn't. But I wonder if you over-value what Wii Fit U will do. If the different SKUs rumor is true, then it's likely we'll see a Wii Fit U bundle announced tomorrow, but I wonder if the strength of the brand hasn't weakened since Wii Fit Plus. Like Neal pointed out, there are a bevy of exercise games available now, from Kinect to iPhone, which replicate or improve upon Fit's offerings. Moreover, I think Wii Fit was a perfect storm; Wii consoles were in a crazy amount of households already, and it had huge mainstream buzz (Oprah!). I really don't think that's going to happen again.

[Luigi Dude]

@Luigi Dude

I'm with you about the Wii having a great selection of games, despite the widespread misconception that it doesn't. But I wonder if you over-value what Wii Fit U will do. If the different SKUs rumor is true, then it's likely we'll see a Wii Fit U bundle announced tomorrow, but I wonder if the strength of the brand hasn't weakened since Wii Fit Plus. Like Neal pointed out, there are a bevy of exercise games available now, from Kinect to iPhone, which replicate or improve upon Fit's offerings. Moreover, I think Wii Fit was a perfect storm; Wii consoles were in a crazy amount of households already, and it had huge mainstream buzz (Oprah!). I really don't think that's going to happen again.

While that might end up true, you have to look at things from Nintendo's perspective.  The Wii Fit balance board bundles sold 37 million units, and considering it was something that was more expensive then a regular game, I imagine Nintendo was very impressed with the sales.  In comparison Wii Sports Resort's sales which include standalone and Wii hardware bundles are currently at 30 million.

Yes, everything you've said about Wii Fit U might end up being true, but right now to Nintendo, Wii Fit is the more popular series.  From a pure business standpoint, Nintendo feels getting the new Wii Fit out first on the Wii U is more important then a new Wii Sports.  It could come back to hurt them, but it's makes sense why Nintendo is currently doing what they're doing.  Of course considering there was only a one year gap between Wii Sports and Wii Fit in Japan, I fully expect a Wii Sports U game to come out Fall 2013 anyway so there won't be that long a wait in the Wii U's life before a new Wii Sports hit the system.  Considering the 720/PS4 will more then likely hit stores around the same time frame, I fully expect Wii Sports U to be Nintendo's big fall casual game to counter any casual games Microsoft and Sony might try to use to sell their new systems.

[Ian Sane]

The Wii's whole design is casual focused.  From a hardware perspective it is practically a re-released Gamecube only now with online features (that SHOULD have been offered on the Cube in the first place) and motion control.  When they introduced the remote all they talked about was how accessible it was and how the traditional controller was so intimidating and confusing and how this TV remote design was good because TV remotes are something everyone is confortable with.  They whole system was designed to get people who don't play games to buy the system.  It's a non-gamer system.  If they tried to sell it to just the then pre-existing videogame market they would have gotten creamed.  So much of the appeal relied on the target market being ignorant that Nintendo was essentially refurbing last gen hardware.  Even the launch lineup relies on ignorance with a Zelda game originally designed for and available for the Gamecube (though delayed a month so that the suckers don't see it on the store shelves and thus get wise to the con).

Nintendo probably did not want to exclude core gamers or get branded as the "casual system".  I think they went for an "everyone" approach.  The problem is that stuff for "everyone" is usually more for the "lowest common denominator" and that's why teens and young adults weren't interested in Nintendo's "kiddy" games in the past and core gamers aren't interested in their "casual" games today.

The only first party Wii title that earnestly comes across as solely for core gamers is Metroid Prime 3.  In everything else the motion control appears to exist in hope of making the game more accessible to casuals.  All the waggle nonsense comes from the theory that motion control is less intimidating and more inviting and that casuals and non-gamers will be drawn to it.  Even something like Skyward Sword bases its design on the hope that sword swinging will expand the Zelda audience.  Metroid Prime 3 is rare in that the design seems to be to use motion control to innovate in a core game.  It makes no effort to be accessible to the inexperienced.  On the other side you have something like DKC Returns which clearly has the design of a core game but is hurt by casual-targetted controls.  Aside from waggle it also has the NES style control layout that Nintendo got a hard-on for because they figured it would attract lapsed gamers.  This doesn't mean all Wii games are casual games but the constant forced usage of waggle is to accomodate any casuals that end up playing.  They try to be "casual friendly" (super guide is another good example of this).

Nintendo probably did not expect third parties to fill the Wii library with shovelware.  They probably didn't think the huge hardware gap would completely kill core game third party support (Nintendo, being extremely arrogant, probably thought third parties would switch to the Wii to use motion control).  They were totally caught off guard by the backlash of the infamous Wii Music E3 and when talking about the Wii U have talked a lot about the Wii being the "casual system" as not being the intention.  But the whole design of the Wii was so focused on attracting the blue ocean crowd that there is no way it could not have ended up that way.  Nintendo assumed that since core gamers COULD enjoy the Wii, they would have no problem with the concessions the Wii made for non-gamers.  That assumption is just very naive.  It's like assuming everyone likes pop music because it's so inoffensive and accessible.

The whole point of the Wii was that there was a big group of people that didn't buy videogames and Nintendo wanted them to become Nintendo customers.  I believe when a rock band does that they call it "selling out".  That's casual.

[Mop it up]

I think Nintendo are in a tough spot, and they are not entirely sure how to market the Wii U during the launch period. They clearly want everyone to buy it, but the everyone approach didn't work as well as they hoped with the Wii, so I think they are starting with a, as they say, "core" approach to the launch so that it doesn't suffer the same issues of the Wii. Plus, they probably don't expect the "casuals" to rush out and buy a new ~$300 system right away, so they figure that a new Wii Sports can wait until after they establish the system for the "core." With the Wii, I believe they underestimated what it would take to draw in the "core" crowd, and they don't want to make that mistake again.

As for the "casual vs hardcore" debate that seems to have developed in the comments, I don't think I'll be touching that. It's always a battle of semantics that never goes anywhere.

[BeautifulShy]

Ian I am just going to say this once and then I am getting out of this topic because I am tired of hearing the same tired arguments.

The Wii is a console for gamers and everyone else as well. The system has a good mix of games for the veteran gamers and the newer gamers. The Wii has the Virtual console and as well Gamecube backwards compatablity.Before you jump on my case about newer systems a so called core gamer if they really wanted could find a backwards compatable system themselves or could gut their gamecube and find a way to get the drive into the newer systems. As well as lots of great games for the system for the so called core gamer. As for the so called casual gamer (who invented these terms?) there is enough on the system and more that they can jump into when they want to.


As for your accusation about the only core game being Metroid Prime 3 that made good use of the controls you clearly haven't played many games this year or many 3rd party games.


As for "selling out" as you say. Selling out would be this still making systems and putting their franchises on competing platforms as a first party. Don't think they are doing that yet.

[NWR_Neal]

Man, Looking at the list Luigi Dude wrote out reminded me how freaking awesome the Wii is/was. I won't regret any complaints of lulls I made (see: mid 2012, 3/4 of 2011, second half of 2008), but on the whole, the Wii had a fantastic set of games out for it.

[S-U-P-E-R]

Although I feel like Ian pretty much nailed it, I don't want to let this thread go just yet.
 
It boggles my mind to think that some people believe that Nintendo made any sort of real effort to bring in hardcore gamers to the Wii. Really, it didn't have a chance with the crowd that went to 360/PS3, systems that had way better hardware, supported HD, and had substantial online infrastructure. It was already decided from the start that Wii would not be the go-to system for high profile multi-system games.
 
And yet some people, in this very thread, think that the Wii still served hardcore gamers reasonably well. Maybe we just have different definitions of hardcore, or something? Like people who buy everything Nintendo puts out because they love Nintendo so much? I know there's a lot of those people present in this forum, and that was also me as recently as 5 years ago. Nintendo's first party games are the same games they've always released, but now, just a little easier, and a little dumber. I can't really get any enjoyment out of those if it's like a worse version of something I've already played. They're great for my kids and grandmas or whatever, though. Whatever other second and third party exclusives they secured were few and far between, and listing like 4 games nobody cares about like it magically proves that Nintendo catered to hardcore gamers is absurd. Yes, the Wii had great games for hardcore gamers, but I can count them on one hand. The Wii had a pretty robust library if you like shovelware and low-budget phoned-in spinoff games, I guess?
 
And let's not even talk about downloadable games. No online play, no HD upgrades, no leaderboards. Even PC emulators were better.