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Messages - NinSage

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Podcast Discussion / Re: Episode 300: SPARTAAA!!!
« on: August 08, 2012, 12:23:59 AM »
Great episode, gents.  Seriously pulled off one of the most enjoyable episodes for #300.  Way to rise to the occasion!

Responses ...

1. Paraphrase from Jonny: "their innovation is in gameplay, nintendo's never really done crazy controllers."

I can only assume you're referring only to PRIMARY controllers, right? Cuz I mean, in general, there's PowerPad, PowerGlove, all kinds of other goofy things.

2. I was in love with games all the way up until the end of the PS2 era.  But after that I was planning to live "a generation behind" and just buy games when they are a fraction of the price but still just as fun.

Then, I went to a classmates party and he had a Wii and was showing it off to everybody.  It was awesome and several months later ...

3. My wife spent weeks hunting down delivery trucks until she finally got a Wii for us at Christmas.

4. By the next Christmas my sister had a Wii and asked for video games.  That was a BIG. EFFIN'. DEAL. to me.

5. My dad played Wii Sports Resort with my wife and me one night.  He beat us at bowling and is still proud of it to this day.  I believe Gui said something about "remembering these experiences all my life." I agree, Gui!

6. I know Nintendo stopped marketing to "us." But, hey, marketing isn't games.  Games are games.  And my favorite games of this gen are on Nintendo's platforms.

7. Gui: "I was enjoying myself and everyone else was bringing me down."  Agreed, sir.

8. I somehow played hundreds of smooth hours of Brawl online.  *shrug*

9. The Wii was by far the most popular, but third parties ignored it.  If they felt like focusing on that, nurturing it, they could have made a ton of money.  But, they said "no, we'll make games the way we've always made them."  For the most part, they just couldn't make a good flagship game, they had to make their flagship games "big budget" games.

10. I loved the "faux retro" revival.  And yes, MegaMan 9 felt most at-home on Wii.  The controller, the fact that all the previous 8-bits were on the NES.  It was the right fit.

11. In my opinion, the Wii's software lineup in 2010 was one of the best release schedules ever!  When you look at all the quality games, it seems like a no-brainer to me.

12. Again, I can only paraphrase from memory.  Gui: "When I heard people say Nintendo abandoned them, that's how I feel about the other companies." YES, GUI!!!!  As someone who only had a PS1 and a PS2 during those generations, I was ready to walk away from "modern gaming" before the Wii.  The PS3/60 just didn't interest me.  After I got in to the Wii I thought, "that DS thing seems to have some good stuff going on."  And the rest is history.

13.  I don't think Nintendo is "saving video games" to be altruistic.  But, I do think they are doing it.  I hope they don't fall too deep into this HD/DLC rabbit hole that swallowed up their contemporaries.

14. Gui, you are the man this episode.  I like to think "Wii apologists" can actually just be "people who really like the Wii."  Remember when being a fan of something wasn't automatically a fan-boy?

15. I agree that WM+ was largely wasted on the Wii.  But the Wii U will give it an entire second chance.

16. I think Lindy said something about "everyone" wanting Other M and Sin+Punishment.  He was right, "gamers" wanted those.  The people in our circles wanted those.  We can't discount uber-popular games like Mario and Wii Fit by saying they are just appealing to "the masses" and then also discount games that only have "core" appeal.

17.  You say 2011 had a rough year and we're blaming Nintendo for only releasing those 3 games.  But, what happened to all the third parties complaining that Nintendo games crowd them out from the Wii's huge install base and that's why their stuff doesn't sell?

Why do third parties not get equal blame for not filling the holes they supposedly were starving for? Also, when everything comes out in 2010, we all know there can't be a sequel in 2011, right?  This isn't [third party who does annual releases] we're talkin' about.

18. Hearing from Greg was like a warm blanket for my soul.  Cheers, mate.  Go Bills!


Sorry for the super long, not very well developed post.  But, hey, in an (awesome) 5-hour podcast, maybe you get quantity and not quality, right?  ;D

Looking forward to 400.  ;D

TalkBack / Re: The Last Story Preview
« on: August 07, 2012, 11:40:13 PM »
"The Wii's last story is almost upon us."

I just like pointing out stuff like this ...

Previous Wii "swan songs" include:

Zelda: Skyward Sword
Mario Party 9
Rhythm Heaven Fever

Future Wii "swan songs":

Kirby Dream Collection
Epic Mickey 2

 Unlikely, but possible, future Wii "swan songs":
 Pandora's Tower
 Dragon Quest X

TalkBack / Re: Mario Isn't Missing
« on: August 05, 2012, 09:17:02 PM »

I love ya like a brother, but those are some pretty stringent qualifiers.

Xenoblade, mothatrucka.  Xenoblade.

TalkBack / Re: Mario Isn't Missing
« on: August 05, 2012, 01:09:23 PM »

You ALMOST have a point there but you're neglecting a key element that makes the Other M situation entirely unique.  The issues some people have with that game deal with characterization and consistency with some mythical prior experience.  In other words, in that case, it is something that couldn't be experienced before playing most of the game.

The gameplay itself reflects my point about substantial yet gradual evolutions.  Yes, there are new and exciting tweaks, but it is built on the Super Metroid model and even manages to control largely with NES-style inputs.  Which, again, accomplishes something "new" without reinventing itself.

Ultimately, you make part of my point for me.  Of course people don't mind change when it's "good," the problem is that a lot of gamers fear change just as much as Nintendo fears alienating them.  Gamers want game changes to reflect the ideal IN THEIR HEAD.  When the result is different (as is the overwhelming statistical likelihood)? "rawr." "this change was BAD."

That's why I mentioned new sub-series, or whatever you want to call them.  THAT's where companies like Nintendo who have looooong standing franchises can take risks because people don't have the same expectations.  They can't "rawr" if there were no expectations to be cognitively dissonant about.  Think of the PKMN Ranger series.  People liked the games but not as much as the flagship titles.  Imagine if one of them was called PKMN Black/White instead.


It couldn't have anything to do with how some gamers/journalists have tried to crucify Nintendo in recent years for not having enough Mario games towards the beginning of a platforms cycle, could it?

TalkBack / Re: Mario Isn't Missing
« on: August 05, 2012, 01:40:42 AM »
Let's also remember one important piece of information ...

In the earlier days, the definition of a Mario game had not been fully formed.  They could fearlessly experiment.

These days, especially with the nature of "fans" on the internet, changes have to be made in drips and drabs.  If there were ANY sweeping changes made to the franchise?

So, we'll get high quality games that gradually evolve over time.  Drastic changes will take place every so often in the form of new sub-series ("New," "Galaxy," etc.).

I, and millions of other gamers, will gladly take it.

TalkBack / Re: Mario Isn't Missing
« on: August 04, 2012, 02:47:47 AM »
Are we suffering from Mario fatigue? No.

Why? All the reasons people have already listed in this thread.

Good luck with your molehill, other people.

TalkBack / Re: Two New DSi Colors Announced for North America
« on: August 03, 2012, 02:17:24 PM »
Can anyone explain why this is any worse than Nintendo continuing to ship DSi systems period?

Should Nintendo just discontinue the DSi/DSiXL at this point altogether?

Seriously.  People talk as if releasing these colors somehow prevents people from buying other systems.  Like "oh well, I was going to buy a 3DS but now I guess I HAVE to buy this new DSi" ?!?!

With a lot of things (DLC, too-soon sequels that render last-year's versions obsolete), people like to say "if you don't want it, it's simple, don't buy it!"  But, they forget that if you don't opt-in, you miss out.  Here, there is no missing out! It's purely an option! So truly, if you don't want it, it's simple, don't buy it!

Plus, some people are always griping about more new colors for every system ever.  Well, here they are!

TalkBack / Re: E3 to Remain in Los Angeles Through 2015
« on: August 03, 2012, 04:37:55 AM »

There are lots of cities I would put above LA if I were ever lucky enough to attend such an event.

TalkBack / Re: Nano Assault EX Coming to North American, European eShop
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:21:57 PM »
I think those of us who own the retail version should get the new game modes as free DLC. Just saying.

Super agreed!!!

TalkBack / Re: Hug Button Contest: Results!
« on: August 02, 2012, 12:19:00 PM »
Shame they didn' know...draw the Boy actually hugging the Blob.

The hug has been initiated. Look closer.

TalkBack / Re: New Super Mario Bros. 2 Impressions
« on: August 01, 2012, 03:47:00 AM »
Sounds great, Danny.  Thanks for the write-up!  Looking forward to this intriguing game.

TalkBack / Re: 3DS LL, NSMB2 Debut to Strong Sales in Japan
« on: August 01, 2012, 03:43:23 AM »

"Nintendo HAS to go third party and develop for smartphones."
Enterbrain has reported that Nintendo has sold 193,441 3DS LL systems in its first weekend on sale in Japan. The 3DS revision was released on a Saturday, with the figures only representing units sold on July 28 and July 29.Meanwhile, New Super Mario Bros. 2 sold 430,185 units in the same timeframe. These numbers do not account for the downloadable version of the game.


TalkBack / Re: Pit Figma Figure Revealed
« on: August 01, 2012, 12:07:18 AM »

Also nice to see Pit getting some recognition on the same level of his iconic brethren.

TalkBack / Re: Zelda 25th Anniversary Goodies
« on: July 30, 2012, 01:33:04 PM »
Sweeeeet! Love it.  Great article, Andrew!

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 29, 2012, 10:54:10 PM »
Hardly anyone complains about buying music or movies on iTunes (or a similar service), so why would they complain about having digital games?
Well the one difference right now is that games are still tied to proprietary systems, whereas music and movies are relatively standardized or universalized.

He said it so I didn't have to.   :D   Well done, 'byte.

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 29, 2012, 08:43:21 PM »

... the ability to carry your entire collection on a tiny chip


1. Having all the games on a tiny chip AND on 400 CDs is still having them on the tiny chip.  One doesn't negate the other.  If you're purely worried about saving space you can throw them out if you really need to =P

2. As for immediacy, yea, I suppose most games would release digitally by noon and most mail trucks deliver around 3 or 4pm, right? So, boom, there's 4ish hours of advantage for digital release. Whoopetydoo! =P

3. Right.  That Intellivision game would be a problem... which is why I said "the vast majority" go down in price.

4. I don't care about keeping those jobs around =P  But if manufacturers don't want their hardware/accessories/merch relegated to general electronic stores they would want GAME stores to stay in business =P

5. I'm not discrediting obscure/controversial games.  I'm simply saying that many of the same obstacles which make certain retail games hard to find would apply to digital versions as well.


I'm glad you're not sold on digital yet.  Neither am I =)

But, ultimately, the root of our conversation was whether or not digital would make retail extinct in the near future.  I just don't see that happening for a very long time.  What do you think? After the next gen? After two?


Exactly.  His analogy falls flat because those are general electronic stores.  Not "MP3" stores.

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 29, 2012, 06:35:02 PM »
I can't speak for the entire population of the world, but I don't think anyone with any credibility ever said radio would be dead because people wouldn't want random/unknown music.

And yet, many people did.  Just Google "death of radio" or any similar doom-inciting phrase.  But again, don't let the specifics trip you up.  It's not like everyone gathered around the national sooth sayer and he predicted it.  It's always just the mindless, knee-jerk predictions of every era's Michael Pachters, the general fear-mongering news and the general buzz-hungry populace that perpetuate these notions.  Just as they are doing today by saying physical media will surely be gone soon.

As per your other points - some are correct, some are opinion...

Where is the opinion in saying those same things are possible w/ physical media?
Digital releases have the potential to allow you instant access to the media with little wait (depending on your broadband speed), no going to a store and hoping it's in stock, no worries about it going "out of print", no concerns about pricing of second hand sales - and, as a salesman, no concerns about shoplifting and no concerns about taking a loss on markdowns if the product flops and doesn't sell.

 No going to a store / Immediate access upon release.

No.  Online ordering means you can get games on release day w/o leaving your home.

No "out of print" worries.


No concerns about second hand pricing.

Sorry, that works both ways.  And way more often than not, games go DOWN in price and not up.  So, for the vast majority, nope =\

No headaches for salespeople.

Also, no since those folks would be too busy being out of business to care if there were no more physical versions.  But then there wouldn't be good places to sell hardware, which is why the manufacturers wouldn't be happy, which.. again... is why it ain't happenin'.


So, barring your identification of those "opinions," we have reached a total of 1 absolute advantage.  Which brings the score to 1 vs at least 1 (actually OWNING the media).

Now, even that advantage falls a bit flat when you consider the following ...

A) The vast majority of games are not hard to find within about 5 years of their release unless there is some REASON for it (poorly accepted, very obscure, some kind of controversy or legal issue).
B) After a game generation has passed, we still have to hope those same issues are not in play AND the service provider still feels like offering that game.  After all, even in digital services, games are sometimes taken down, are they not?

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 29, 2012, 04:45:02 PM »

The prediction was that with entire music libraries at our finger tips people would no longer want to be at the mercy of random/unknown music, ie "radio."  The fact that people are still willingly participating in such practice (via new AND old services) when they have the choice not to proves those predictions wrong.  But, if you wanted an argument of semantics, I can't help ya out there.


Back to the main topic, can I assume all my unacknowledged points were met with tacet, if reluctant, understanding?

TalkBack / Re: Nintendo 3DS XL Impressions
« on: July 29, 2012, 02:20:02 PM »
Coooool.  Thanks for the impressions, Aaron.  I still believe the DSi XL is the best piece of hardware I have ever owned, but despite our differences of opinion there, it's good to hear the 3DS XL is shaping up just as nicely.

Unfortunately, I will be holding out for some better colors.  The Japanese white or the EU silver would have been good enough for a day 1 buy from me.  But the blue and the red? Meh.  I'll wait!!

TalkBack / Re: New Super Mario Bros. 2 Impressions
« on: July 29, 2012, 02:15:36 PM »
Wow.  Great write-up, Aaron!  Sounds like, contrary to some early predictions, this game not only maintains the usual quality standard but also adds a lot of new facets to the franchise.  I have plenty to play for August so I probably won't pick it up at launch, but I'm lookin' forward to when I do!

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 29, 2012, 01:58:33 PM »

Fellas, the point wasn't that those industries aren't hurting or aren't feeling the effects of the internet.  If you haven't checked, right now just about every industry is hurting, and to ignore the impact of the internet on those particular industries would be idiotic to say the least.  The point was people being in love with predicting the complete demise of things that just never seem to happen, much as you are doing now with physical game media.

Also, Pandora is a radio service. It is even sometimes called "Pandora Radio!"  It's not that those things aren't allowed to evolve.  It's that there is a big difference between evolving and dying out.

Can I assume we're in agreement on the non-exclusivity of those features you mentioned?


Here's a 1998 article from CNN summarizing the perspective from back then.  "Newspapers should have been dead by now. They lost nearly 5.5 million subscribers between 1986 and 1996, and pundits declared the end was near. Young people didn't read, they said. The Net would replace paper. Corporate owners were destroying newspapers' souls. In 1993, Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz wrote, 'The smell of death permeates the newspaper business.'"  LINK

Also, you say those features would never be universally added to physical media, so what's different about digital releases that would make it possible?


Perhaps I'm missing something.  You like Sony's practice that "encourages multi-game buying" but are disappointed that a console game and a handheld game will likely be sold separately?  Also, since when does Nintendo need to prove they will bundle old releases? Mario All-Stars, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Kirby's Dream Collection ...

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 28, 2012, 11:47:58 PM »
Newspapers are going the way of the dodo.  The music industry is virtually digital - CD sales don't even compare to what they used to.

As for pros, depending on the particular service - the ability to easily back up the media, the ability to play on multiple setups easily, the ability to carry your entire collection on a tiny chip (seriously, I would have *loved* to have been able to carry my entire music collection on me in high school/college)...

Of late, I picked up Heroes of Ruin - but I have to bring Mario Kart with me to work daily to play against coworkers.  I'd love the ability to have it "installed" on my system so I can be more mobile with Heroes of Ruin without having to carry multiple cartridges with me.


The dodo, eh?  So when should we expect that? 5 years? 10? 20?  Cuz people said it would have happened as early as 12 years ago.

That's nice about CDs.  Now what about the things I was talking about, magazines and radio?

As for your
many, many pros to a digital download.

Let's take them one by one.  I know there are a whopping 3 you listed but I'll try to address them all ...

1. Back-ups

How many companies are going to legally allow you to digitally backup software compared to ones that WOULDN'T let you make a backup of the same physical media*?

2. Multiple setups

Sounds good, but ... *

3. Tiny Chip Storage

Sounds great, but ... *

* Think about it.  Is that an advantage of purely digital releases, or is what you (and I) really want a system in which you buy the physical version and have the option of INSTALLATION to our devices (plural if possible)?

In other words, since those features are NOT mutually exclusive from physical media, it's not really appropriate to list them as an advantage of one over another.  A nice feature? Yes.  But not in a comparison sense.

Building on all of these points, let me ask you this ... which do you think would be easier to implement and more likely to happen given the corporate issues others describes above: software goes all digital or companies begin making those features you described standard on physical media?

I know the software providers would love to go all digital so that they don't have to pay to produce anything.  But would they love losing customers left, right and center who prefer OWNING the things they buy?  I know the internet is full of technofiles willing to make any sacrifice for "progress," but that is small, small fraction of the audience.  Would they like pissing off retailers? Or are they all going to drop out of the hardware/accessory/merchandise businesses too?  Yea, I don't think so either =)

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-Up Absurdity
« on: July 28, 2012, 07:10:56 PM »

So what are all those pros you mentioned?

Newspapers, magazines, music radio and soon, physical media.

What do they all have in common? Things the media promised would SURELY be things of the past, yet, are still around and show no signs of ever leaving entirely.

TalkBack / Re: New Super Mario Bros. 2 Reversible Cover
« on: July 28, 2012, 02:59:53 PM »

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Download Card Mark-up Absurdity
« on: July 28, 2012, 02:57:58 PM »
Don't care about digital.  They could make it $150USD for all I care.  There just aren't nearly enough pros compared to physical.  Looks like the retailers feel that way too.  Once the technofiles get over the fact that new methods of technology are not automatically better, retailers won't be scared of it and the matter will settle itself.

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