Topic: A grown up Pokemon on the DS

[Pikkcuber]

To those who dont know the great game pokemon is, try it.  Its no secret nintendo is trying to get kids into the series by making it kiddy freindly with fire red and leaf green, but i would like the series to take a diffrent turn.  Since the DS is for more mature gamers then the GBA this makes sense.  Pokemon suprisingly has a backing from older gamers as well.  If they make the battles harder, put more puzzles and stuff in there and make the cartoon graphics alittle more edgy i can see it making money.  They dont have to hamper with the story but if they can think of something better then the same old plot 70 times in a row that would be cool.

[ThePerm]

well when i create my big video game company i will be sure to make a pokémon clone

[Ray00101]

i like the idea of a pokemon mmorpg...if thats at all possible.

[Uncle Rich AiAi]

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Originally posted by: Pikkcuber
Its no secret nintendo is trying to get kids into the series by making it kiddy freindly with fire red and leaf green, but i would like the series to take a diffrent turn.

Go watch Kiddy Grade....

[Jale]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ray00101
i like the idea of a pokemon mmorpg...if thats at all possible.

Pokemon is MADE to be MMO. They would have to make a character design screen of course, and a much larger world but it would be great as an MMO. The only problem is that you wouldn't get the natural progression in the game. The place that you start at wouldnt be all Lv 2 people. They would have to work around this.

[Guitar Smasher]

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Originally posted by: Jale

Quote
Originally posted by: Ray00101
i like the idea of a pokemon mmorpg...if thats at all possible.

Pokemon is MADE to be MMO. They would have to make a character design screen of course, and a much larger world but it would be great as an MMO. The only problem is that you wouldn't get the natural progression in the game. The place that you start at wouldnt be all Lv 2 people. They would have to work around this.

I just want to add that the Pokemon world is already a mmorpg.  All those other trainers are playing the same game as you, except they're NPCs.  All you have to do is make them player-controlled, and you have a MMORPG.

[Jale]

Precisely, and they must make it a bit deeper with more rare, unique pokemon. I bet that the person who manages to capture something like a ledgendary bird would become quite famous in the game world. They could integrate a news feature into the 'PDA' things that they carry around in the game, and maybe even have radio that plays real music or has interviews with people like the programmers.

[Pikkcuber]

once you go through the game and beat it you are able to access the mmorpg world where there would be different stages where you could fight other players and look for new pokemon.  Thats all I can think of for a pokemon mmorpg

[Pikkcuber]

It doesnt even have to be an mmorpg it just has to be more angled to people who followed the franchise before.

[Mario]

Grown up? You mean like, with a huge cartridge?

Or disk thingy or whatever the hell DS games are on.

[Cube_King]

Pokemon is so brilliant, I cant believe after all these years I still enjoy playing pokemon games. I wouldn't mind if Nintendo keeps it kid-friendly but what I would like is a FULL 3D RPG pokemon game, and also improve on the battle system. They haven't ever changed the combat since the first pokemon was released, I want it in real-time.

[Spak-Spang]

Pokemon will never be mature.  Nintendo knows right now that Pokemon is something that the kid market enjoys in the US, and in Japan a larger market enjoys it as well.  To change the game too drastically would risk losing the market share and audience it already has.

Pokemon is a brilliant game.  The whole concept of collecting and battling monsters is already pretty mature.  The only thing that hurts the game is the cute monster designs, which are not going to change because they are engrained into the magic of the game.

I often wonder about a 3D Pokemon game.  It seems like such a great idea.  Throw in online play and have a massive world to play in and capture monsters.  You could even add monsters to the server to collect and it would be an endless game.  

The problem with this is production costs.  Which is why Nintendo never went into online gaming yet.  For quality control of a project this big it would have to maintain complete server control.  Costing bandwidth and money...money that it is not postitive it will earn from the game and its target market.

Next, you realize that the design of this game is also going to be expensive.  Yes Nintendo has made most of the Pokemon into 3D monsters for a battle game, but the models are basic, and Nintendo hasn't spent time to build a huge world to place the monsters in, let alone update all the designs to look and belong in a 3D world.  This is a much larger process than anyone could imagine, because Nintendo not only needs to update the 300 or so monsters, and make new ones, it has to create a believable world and enviroments for this animals to live, and also potentially interact with eachother in the wild.  

While Nintendo has been able to keep the focus strictly on the battle and RPG element in the 2D games, most of this is because you don't have to show the animals in the 2D world before you battle them.  As well the create of minimal animation for 2D graphics makes the Pokemon series easier to create in the current form.

I believe Nintendo will do another half sequel where they update the series just enough, and add just enough DS support to make the game new and fresh again, but it isn't going to be the revolutionary Pokemon game everyone wants.  

I would like to be proven wrong, but I just don't see the benefits of creating the game we want to see, at least from a business perspective.

[Michael8983]

I think a Pokemon MMORPG sounds good in theory but would just really suck if it was actually made. Like with most online games, the gamers themselves would ruin the experience and only the most hardcore of hardcore gamers would stick around. A Pokemon game on the DS should definitly allow communication among DS's but just among small groups. So a lot of MMORPG-ish features could be implimented without opening the flood-gates to all the cr*p people would have to put up with in an actual MMORPG. That's something casual gamers would actually go for and it would just make for a better experience IMO.

[Jale]

There are a LOT of hardcore Pokemon fans, especially in Japan. An MMO is just perfect for Pokemon. It should be in 2D though. I think there should be a 3D pokemon game on the Revolution. That would be good.

[3rdrocket]

Heck I would just be happy if they made a Rocket version of pokemon. The DS could use the the touch screen to set traps for trainers so you could take thier pokemon! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Guitar Smasher]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Pokemon will never be mature.  Nintendo knows right now that Pokemon is something that the kid market enjoys in the US, and in Japan a larger market enjoys it as well.  To change the game too drastically would risk losing the market share and audience it already has.

Pokemon is a brilliant game.  The whole concept of collecting and battling monsters is already pretty mature.  The only thing that hurts the game is the cute monster designs, which are not going to change because they are engrained into the magic of the game.

I often wonder about a 3D Pokemon game.  It seems like such a great idea.  Throw in online play and have a massive world to play in and capture monsters.  You could even add monsters to the server to collect and it would be an endless game.  

The problem with this is production costs.  Which is why Nintendo never went into online gaming yet.  For quality control of a project this big it would have to maintain complete server control.  Costing bandwidth and money...money that it is not postitive it will earn from the game and its target market.

Next, you realize that the design of this game is also going to be expensive.  Yes Nintendo has made most of the Pokemon into 3D monsters for a battle game, but the models are basic, and Nintendo hasn't spent time to build a huge world to place the monsters in, let alone update all the designs to look and belong in a 3D world.  This is a much larger process than anyone could imagine, because Nintendo not only needs to update the 300 or so monsters, and make new ones, it has to create a believable world and enviroments for this animals to live, and also potentially interact with eachother in the wild.  

While Nintendo has been able to keep the focus strictly on the battle and RPG element in the 2D games, most of this is because you don't have to show the animals in the 2D world before you battle them.  As well the create of minimal animation for 2D graphics makes the Pokemon series easier to create in the current form.

I believe Nintendo will do another half sequel where they update the series just enough, and add just enough DS support to make the game new and fresh again, but it isn't going to be the revolutionary Pokemon game everyone wants.  

I would like to be proven wrong, but I just don't see the benefits of creating the game we want to see, at least from a business perspective.

You bring up some good points, but I think you can avoid some of the issues you mentioned.  Like the 3D in-world Pokemon designs.  Instead of this, you could just have vague shaded monsters in the world, sort of like ToS.  But in the battle, the specific Pokemon would be revealed.  Or you could just have the simple random encounter system.  Yes, it's not quite the "searching in the wild" Pokemon game we all dream of, but it's still a great step forward.

As for the whole online issue, I bet that Nintendo, more likely than any other company, could find a way to make it break even.  If not, I would still pay for online, something I won't do for any other game.  Why?  Because I'd be paying for a whole world, where each trainer has a different lineup, and there'd be that legendary player who has that certain rare pokemon.

Now for the development costs, yes it could become a huge amount of money, but let's look at Nintendo's history.  With OoT, they spent 3 years developping the game engine.  3 years, that's a lot of money!  But look how succesful it did.  Coincidence?  No, I don't think so.  This game will sell huge, there's absolutely no question about it.  If Nintendo took it's time, and invested appropriately, this game could become a real system seller.  With the Pokemon brand name, the potential unlike any other game, and just how fun Pokemon is, this game could sell 10 million copies.  I'm not kidding.

[Spak-Spang]

I know I sounded really pestimistic about the whole idea about a Pokemon MMORG, and really I am not.  That was something I really desired to see happen too.  I just don't see it happening.

Yes, there are plenty of things Nintendo could do to cut the development costs down.  But I still don't see it coming out.  Nintendo is trying to streamline game design.  They are having artists create ready made models for all their characters.  They are reusing old game engines with tweaks.  They are running shorter development times.  In short, Nintendo is trying to produce more at a much lower cost.  Admirable, but the results so far have been mixed.

I doubt a Nintendo with this new mind set would spend the invest in bandwidth, years development, and everything else for a game that Nintendo would consider risky.  Specially, when they could design a game with similar functions for the DS, for much cheaper.  

Whoever said they see the next Pokemon game being on DS with built in chat features, and limited area wireless LAN connection is probably the closest to nailing it.  

[Jale]

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
]..everything else for a game that Nintendo would consider risky.  

Risky? A Pokemon MMO is probably the most safe idea they have at their disposal IF THEY CAN PULL IT OFF!

[oohhboy]

Two words "Product Placement".

[Ian Sane]

I have no desire to see Pokemon "grow up".  They tried to make Pokemon more mature in Coloseum andt that game SUCKED.  Now that was mostly because they completely wanged the gameplay but the design and the style also lacked that Pokemon feel.  It felt like a cheesy Pokemon knock-off and that's exactly what you don't want in a Pokemon game.

I just want to see a "real" 3D Pokemon game that plays like the Gameboy games but in 3D.  That's it.  It's the easiest game in the universe to make yet Nintendo hasn't made it yet.  I also want to see an end to the two versions of the same game practice.  There should be a portable and home version of Pokemon that are completely different from each other that have exclusive Pokemon that are obtained by training.  Obviously I also want to see an end to the supreme rip-off practice of releasing a director's cut later for every Pokemon game (Yellow, Crystal, Emerald).  And finally I want each Pokemon RPG sequel to add on the formula.  Gold/Silver was fantastic and added tons of stuff yet Ruby/Sapphire had LESS features than Gold/Silver and didn't really add anything new.  The graphics weren't even that improved.

In short I want Pokemon to stop being such a rip-off.

[Jale]

Pokemon can't grow up, its pokemon and there is no two ways about it. I agree with Ian about the Gold and Ruby situation. Why they decided to cut the day/night thing is beyond me. I think Gold and Silver are the best ones so far.

The revolution will see a 3D proper pokemon game, or else!

What should they call it this time? Maybe Pokemon Onix and Quartz. Or Black and white. Something like that I dunno.

[3rdrocket]

Pokemon Revoloution

kinda like how 64 for was slapped at the end of new games back in the day

[Pikkcuber]

Pokemon is an rpg of course it can.  Just has to realize that were not playing the series for the first time, do that and make the battles tougher this game would be awesome.

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I just want to see a "real" 3D Pokemon game that plays like the Gameboy games but in 3D.  That's it.  It's the easiest game in the universe to make yet Nintendo hasn't made it yet.

Quite frankly, because it would kill off the franchise. Great, you get your "REAL" 3d pokemon game. What's the next release? More "realistic" looking pokemon? Like it or not, the way how Nintendo makes its name, its profits, and its reputation. By forcing you to play the games you like in a different way (and not spending a shitload of cash on it).

The next crash in video games isn't going to be because of loads of crap games, but because games are too perfect. I mean when a game, be it Pokemon or GTA is distilled and refined down to its very essence and the "perfect" Pokemon or "perfect" GTA is made, how the could the next release possibly superceed it? Dare I say it, Nintendo will be there to save us with its "wanged" games.

[odifiend]

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas
Dare I say it, Nintendo will be there to save us with its "wanged" games.

You mean of course save themselves the trouble of being original with their wanged games.   Are you saying the future of video games is cookie cutter sequels?  Pokemon, as soon as these next three games come out (Emerald, Red 2, and Green 2), will essentially be perfect.  In fact as soon as they stop adding more monsters (already at 351), the game will be over because all that will be left are minor tweaks in gameplay.  Since the end is likely near, Nintendo should go all out and create the ultimate console game that links up with every advance edition.  
Also I don't now what the future of console gaming holds but Pokemon lends itself great to 20 or 30 dollar expansion sets.

Quote
Originally posted by: 31 Flavas
By forcing you to play the games you like in a different way

lol.  I like Pokemon a lot, but you have to be delusion to think that you are playing Ruby in a significantly different way than your buddy is playing Sapphire.