Author Topic: Role Of Bayonetta Recast For Bayonetta 3, Original Voice Actress Calling For Boycott  (Read 7130 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
Dude, all five people left on the forums can see what you're doing here. You don't need the dates; you're moving the goalposts again. You have repeatedly dismissed the most important detail about the payment claim: Hellena Taylor has three lead credits in the Bayonetta IP alone. Full stop.

"You're moving the goalposts again" says the person who claimed the CV would detail everything that Taylor had been doing during her long IMDB absences, when my previous post was that her CV was vague, childishly written, and didn't provide sufficient information to determine who; what; when; and where so you could not use it on its own to patch in the IMDB holes. I literally stated in a previous post that I stipulated to your assertion that she had years of theatrical experience that wasn't reflected in the IMDB page, something that you just refuse to just accept and move on from.

Quote
Full disclosure: I saw this post last night, and I waited 18 hours to see if you'd edit it and address more than three cherryicked sentences in my previous-previous post. Nothing. At this point, I can only surmise that you were forced to confront your own biases and flawed logic, decided you didn't want to do that, then pounced on the part you could continue moving the goalpost on.

*miscellaneous ranting, etc.*

Or maybe I determined that this wasn't worth the time (especially considering my original response post literally cost me most of an hour), and mine was better spent doing anything else. I'd said my piece, I addressed what I cared to, and I was content at leaving it there. I don't particularly care for the Bayonetta franchise, nor Platinum Games in general. I don't have a horse in this race. I just found Taylor's actions questionable and briefly voiced my opinions on it considering she decided to attack a voice actress who's voiced a lot of characters I very much enjoyed. At this point, I'm done caring what you think about that. It's a public forum. The half dozen people who make up this community now are free to post or not post as they please.

I find it especially ironic your comment about me "digging in my heels" on this when you are the one who just won't let it go, and you've made it very clear from your 1st post that it's because it's "problematic" to do anything but nod in agreement every time someone who just happens to be a woman makes an accusation, with or without proof.

Quote
You want to clutch your pearls about Taylor supposedly throwing shade at Hale but also insult Taylor and diminish her talent, skill, training, accomplishments, and body of work to what, try to prove a point (badly, I might add). surejan.gif

Taylor is a public figure, and I am not a colleague in her field. I can criticize her all I want, and I'm sorry that you apparently take that very personally. I already admitted previously that I was unaware of her work history outside of voice work in previous posts, but her work is seemingly universally poorly sourced and inconsistently recorded so it's difficult to track.

Quote
That said, it is clear that you are not approaching this discussion with any notion of good faith or objectivity. This has been yet another painful reminder of why I don't stop the forums as often.

Have a nice life. I'm sure the forums will still be right as you left them the next time you're feeling bored.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 07:01:34 PM by broodwars »
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline pokepal148

  • Inquire within for reasonable rates.
  • *
  • Score: -9967
    • View Profile
The way I see it Platinum for sure is in the wrong on some level based on what we know. Even if they were lowballing her to try and get rid of her there are more respectful ways to let someone go. I get Platinum is a Japanese company and Japanese companies supposedly aren't into firing people they are still working with a western voice actress who does not understand Japanese business norms. Lowballing her just gives her fuel to use against them if she decides to lash out, which she did. When your company operates on a worldwide scale that kind of thing becomes less acceptable.

Kamiya has also grossly mishandled the situation in general so far but that's neither here nor there.

The only exception to this is if Hellena is lying about why she isn't in Bayonetta 3 and we will likely never know if this is the case so for now I'm inclined to believe there is some truth in her statements but at the same time to take it with a grain of salt. I definitely think calling out Jennifer Hale in her whole thing and saying that she has "no right" to sign merchandise as Bayonetta even though she's voicing the character for Bayonetta 3 was unnecessary either way and distracts from the rest of her statement. It just comes off as a bit toxic on her part and that isn't what her statements needed.

I wasn't buying Bayonetta before this and I won't do so now. Platinum has proven that their style of game just isn't for me. I enjoyed Star Fox Zero more than what I've played of Bayonetta 2 and Astral Chain.

Also, it is worth noting since it came up earlier in the discussion, London may not be as good for VA work as somewhere like LA but there is a company called the BBC in the country that you might have heard of that could always use some voice work between their documentaries, stuff for their TV channels, and just dubbing over someone in a rubber alien suit or some CGI thing for the next episode of Doctor Who. The BBC also runs a company called Big Finish Productions which is based in Berkshire (which google claims is an hour and a half drive from London) and produces these really good audio dramas.

If she was still interested in voice work outside of Bayonetta there were definitely opportunities for her but she may also putting her talents elsewhere, such as theater which won't show up on her IMDB.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2022, 01:39:48 AM by pokepal148 »

Offline Luigi Dude

  • Truth Bomber
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
The only exception to this is if Hellena is lying about why she isn't in Bayonetta 3 and we will likely never know if this is the case so for now I'm inclined to believe there is some truth in her statements but at the same time to take it with a grain of salt. I definitely think calling out Jennifer Hale in her whole thing and saying that she has "no right" to sign merchandise as Bayonetta even though she's voicing the character for Bayonetta 3 was unnecessary either way and distracts from the rest of her statement. It just comes off as a bit toxic on her part and that isn't what her statements needed.

She also says the Bayonetta franchise has generated 450 million in profit which is a huge exaggeration on her part as well.  The series would have had to have sold over 7.5 million copies at full price to generate that much money, and we know from sales it's no where close to that.  Even VGcharts which is notorious for inflating numbers and saying certain games sold more then they did, only has the overall series a little over 3 million copies.  We know the first game on the 360/PS3 was overshipped by Sega and the price was already in the bargain bins a few months after release, which is why Sega refused to fund a sequel.  So even if the 3 million figure is accurate, many of those copies where not even full price.  Now Bayanetta is in Smash Bros, with the most recent Smash Bros Ultimate has sold well over 20 million copies.  But she would not have access to how much money Nintendo payed Sega to have Bayonetta in Smash, and I doubt it was a couple hundred million.

Bayonetta is the biggest character Taylor has played in her career so it's easy to see why it's so important to her.  But the problem in this situation is she let that love cloud her judgement to the point she feels the character is way bigger then it actually is.  Not saying that her being offered the union minimum was right, but if she had a more realistic view on how big the Bayonetta franchise actually is, maybe she wouldn't have viewed the offer as a huge insult.

I mean this is an article from back in 2008 where the main voice actor for Grand Theft Auto IV, Michael Hollick, complained about only being paid 100K for his role as Niko. 

https://www.gamesradar.com/niko-voice-actor-earned-only-100000/

Keep in mind he had to work over 15 months on this role, while Taylor would have probably worked for about 4 days.  The Grand Theft Auto franchise is also lightyears bigger then Bayonetta.  So her being payed about 4K for her work on Bayonetta 3, technically wouldn't have been that insulting compared to what the industry standard for union pay has been.

Platinum Games can barely pay to keep their own lights on, so boycotting this game won't exactly change much when much larger studio's are basically doing the same thing.  At the end of the day the voice actors really need to start demanding more from their union or else this kind of stuff is going to stay the norm.
I’m gonna have you play every inch of this game! - Masahiro Sakurai

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
Oh hey, look at that: It seems Taylor was at least being misleading, if not outright lying about the situation. The offer was apparently $3,000 - $4,000 PER SESSION, not in total. Taylor wanted a 6 figure salary & royalties.

Source: The Press Sneak **** himself.

https://t.co/qcW0g0z2hm
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
Ugh, that's hugely misleading but not entirely surprising considering how you've conducted yourself in this thread. For anyone who is not going to click into the article, here are the important bits:
  • Jason Schreier spoke to two people who asked not to be identified (which is normal).
  • Claim #1: Platinum Games sought to hire Taylor for at least five sessions, each paying $3,000 to $4,000 for four hours in the studio.
  • Claim #2: Taylor asked for a six-figure sum as well as residuals on the game which PlatinumGames declined.
  • Claim #3: PlatinumGames then offered Taylor a cameo for one session which she also turned down.
  • Schreier contacted Taylor by email who denied this account.
It's important to note that Schreier spoke two people who were willing to corroborate each other's story. This is still one side's word against the other.

Taylor absolutely could be lying. This would be both stupid and hilarious considering how easy her account would be to disprove. Obviously, I'm pro-worker which is why I was more willing to side with the actor. I'm definitely more skeptical of her account than before. As stated earlier, I'm more than willing to hear different perspectives, and I reserve the right to change my opinion as more information is presented. I encourage others to do the same.

Also, it should be reiterated that it is still true that gig industry workers are frequently mistreated and given lowball offers. Regardless of who is lying, don't let that distract you from this fact. It has been known well before this story blew up.

Offline broodwars

  • Hunting for a Pineapple Salad
  • Score: -1011
    • View Profile
I don't like Schreier personally, but he has an excellent track record of vetting his sources and accurate reporting. If that's what his sources are saying, I see very little reason not to trust that his depiction of events is accurate. If Taylor was demanding a 6 figure salary + royalties for a series as relatively small as Bayonetta, that would finally clear up the longstanding Jennifer Hale question. Very few, if any, game developers could afford that, and certainly not Platinum.

One thing I do want to stress is that you and I have always agreed that voice actors should be paid more than they are. Taylor's story just never made sense to me. That said, this shouldn't deter voice actors from pursuing reasonable salary increases. Because this is such a high profile story, though, it probably will.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2022, 04:36:22 PM by broodwars »
There was a Signature here. It's gone now.

Offline Luigi Dude

  • Truth Bomber
  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
Even though it's still one side vs the other, this new story does make it more believable why they had no problem replacing her with a bigger name actress.  Someone like Hale isn't taking this job for only 4k, but if Platinum was will to pay up to 20k, that seems more like what they'd have to pay to get someone of Hales status.  Plus Taylor did say the franchise has made over 450 million in profit when she has no access to those numbers so she already has exaggerated some of her claims.

I wouldn't be surprised if NCL sent their lawyers to Platinum first thing Monday morning to look over every document related to this case.  If she is outright lying about this, I suspect she's about to get a huge lawsuit from Nintendo.  No way is NCL going to let someone call for a boycott of a game they publish if they have solid evidence this person is making false claims.
I’m gonna have you play every inch of this game! - Masahiro Sakurai

Offline Adrock

  • Chill, Valentine
  • Score: 138
    • View Profile
One thing I do want to stress is that you and I have always agreed that voice actors should be paid more than they are. Taylor's story just never made sense to me.
That's fair. It made sense to me mainly because I've seen worse with my own eyes, straight up clients asking for free labor in exchange for the "exposure". That **** can GTFOH. Pay the talent.

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
So... Like... Hale's version doesn't seem to fit with this new report at all...


....unless.... Could there have been a translation issue?  Japanese $4k/session became English $4k total?  Because that would suck for everyone involved if it were the case.
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.